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The thing that I was reflecting on as far as Juneteenth was concerned is the fact that
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you know if you put yourself in the mind of people who were enslaved at that point you
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know when they got that announcement it was a General Gordon Granger who made the announcement
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in Galveston, Texas.
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You have to imagine what it must have been like to have your world be as big as the plantation
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that you worked on and then suddenly your world got a whole lot bigger.
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And what black people chose to do with that freedom I find is absolutely extraordinary
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because within like a couple of decades you had young black men studying classical music
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and living life on their terms.
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And so this is what I wanted to celebrate like this artistic drive and this incredible
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spirit that sort of pushes us forward as black people and as Americans.
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Welcome back to another episode of the PianoPod where tradition meets innovation.
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We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world.
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I am your host Yukimi Song.
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I am immensely proud of this new season's guest lineup who are incredibly talented and
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dedicated in their craftsmanship and bring a rich tapestry of diverse experiences into
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this show.
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I truly appreciate their willingness to be on the PianoPod to share their thoughts and
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expertise and I really can't wait to unveil each episode to you letting their stories
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inspire, educate and resonate.
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Now I trust you've had a chance to dive into our previous episodes and I am genuinely
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curious to know your thoughts about them.
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So please share your feedback on social media or drop us a note on our website at thepianopod.com.
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Your insights are valuable in shaping the direction of the show.
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Today's episode features an artist whose journey in the piano world is deeply rooted
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in her background, Caribbean and African heritage and whose performances resonate with audiences
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worldwide.
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So let me introduce our guest for this episode, Dr. Nena Ogwo, pianist, educator, founder
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and artistic director of Juneteenth LP.
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She's graced stages from Europe to the Middle East, South America to the Caribbean and of
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course the United States.
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Whether it's a grand concert hall or an intimate gathering, Nena's captivating warmth ensures
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everyone feels welcomed, which is central to her mission of broadening the horizons
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of classical music audiences.
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In 2019, Nena took a bold step by founding the Juneteenth LP.
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This collective shines a spotlight on the artistic brilliance of the African diaspora
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through the unique lens of Black classically trained musicians.
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Nena has been the driving force behind Juneteenth LP, both as a pianist and executive and artistic
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director.
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Her dedication was recognized in 2022 when she received the Chamber Music America Artist
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Grant.
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This accolade transformed her annual Juneteenth celebration from a one-night event at Joe's
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Pub at the Public Theater to a week-long New York City extravaganza.
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Dr. Ogwo's piano journey began at the tender age of six.
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She honed her skills at prestigious institutions like Peabody Prep, Oroling Conservatory,
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The Liszt Academy of Music, and Stony Brook University.
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She has been honored with the Stern Scholarship, Turner Fellowship, and the Fulbright Award.
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Today, Dr. Ogwo is sought after as a concert pianist, chamber musician, concert curator,
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guest lecturer, and faculty member at various esteemed music institutions.
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And for those eager to experience her magic, her solo piano album, Luminous, was unveiled
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in May 2023 under the MSR Classics label.
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Before getting started with this special episode with Dr. Nena Ogwo, I want to welcome all
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our first-timers to the PianoPod.
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I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City.
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Whether you're diving deep into a piano career, working professionally in the classical
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music scene, or simply have a passion for piano tunes, this podcast is your backstage
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pass to the fascinating piano world.
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I also want to welcome back and thank you to amazing TPP fans and faithful listeners
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for tuning in today.
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Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform because every rating review
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will help people find the show.
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So dear TPP fans and listeners, I can't wait to interview Dr. Nena Ogwo to hear about
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her remarkable musical career and learn what Juneteenth LP is all about.
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So stick with me till the end of our conversation as it will lead to a more reflective discussion
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on how we trained classical musicians should keep classical music relevant and thriving
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in today's rapidly changing world.
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So here we go, dear friends, please enjoy the show.
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You are listening to the PianoPod where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.
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So welcome Nena to the PianoPod.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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I love your room.
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I love the painting.
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I recognize the painting in your background.
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You know, when you're doing things on a shoestring budget, you use what you have.
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And I decided this will be a lovely background for my website.
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No it looks like a million bucks.
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I mean, yeah.
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And I recognize it from your website, right?
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Yeah, it actually is the first piece of art that I ever bought in New York.
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Really?
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Yeah, there used to be a public auction house called Tepper Galleries on East 25th Street.
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And I was with my mom and I was bidding on it.
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And my mother was looking at me like, what are you?
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That looks terrible.
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But I had this huge living room with tons of wall space.
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And when I put it up, she was like, oh, okay, okay.
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Pretty dramatic and powerful.
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But when I was bidding, she thought I was nuts.
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Wow, but somehow it just captures the essence of my impression of you.
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Anyway, so our mutual, I guess, friend or colleague, Rosemary Caviglia.
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She is a fellow pianist and educator as well.
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And my colleague at the Non-Profit Organization, we are both part of, is a faithful listener
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of the PianoPod and such a wonderful supporter of what I do.
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And then she emailed me a few months ago and suggested that I should interview you.
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And so I'm very excited.
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The biggest shout out to Rosemary.
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If you are listening, Rosemary, I am sending you positive vibes and appreciation for introducing
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Nana to the PianoPod.
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While I was learning about you to prepare for this interview, even within this big umbrella
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of music or music industry, you do wear many hats.
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Not only the pianist and educator, but also you are a composer, arts advocate.
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And among many things you do, what I'd like to focus today in this episode is your passion
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project, Juneteenth Legacy Project.
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And you're a founder and executive and artistic director.
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So let's start with that.
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So what is Juneteenth Legacy Project?
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Is this an organization, program?
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Who is this for?
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First of all, I want to correct you on one thing.
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We are actually called Juneteenth LP.
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The LP does stand for Legacy Project, but there actually is a Juneteenth Legacy Project,
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which is an arts-based organization in Houston.
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And I encourage people to find out who they are and what they're doing.
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They're doing really great work.
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But it was one of my first lessons in business.
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I did not grab that domain name.
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I did not grab it immediately.
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And so, you know, I went back to it three months later and it was gone.
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So we became Juneteenth LP.
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But we are a music collective of classically trained, mostly classically trained musicians
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of the African diaspora.
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Our mission is to introduce people to classical music by African diaspora composers, but the
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gateway is more familiar music to them.
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So we play music of all genres.
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Toshi Reagan, the amazing musician, artist, activist, had a series at Joe's Pub called
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Her Good Folks series.
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And she invited me to do this, to do a Juneteenth show, because I had said that's what I wanted
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to do.
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She invited me to do the Juneteenth show at Joe's Pub in 2015.
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And in May of that year, my mother passed away.
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So it didn't happen.
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For 2016 and 2017, I shared the event with two other artists, which was a wonderful experience.
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And through that sharing, the artists that they brought in, I got to meet some of them.
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And so as we were giving these concerts, the concert was my way of introducing people to
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classical music by black composers.
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And so I played Ulysses Kay and I played William Grant Still and I played David Baker and Dorothy
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Redmore.
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And people really, really enjoyed it.
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And it was funny because, you know, I started the program and then the other musician ended
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the program.
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And, you know, what they were playing was much more contemporary.
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I thought even though, you know, there are these two sort of very distinctly different
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styles, people were really, really receptive to the music that I was playing.
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But I think that they were not just receptive to what we were playing, they were receptive
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to the fact that I talked about the music.
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I talked about the composers, I talked a little bit about their lives and about maybe what
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they were going through when they wrote the pieces.
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And I talked about how the music spoke to me and I invited the audience to engage with,
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you know, what did they hear?
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And in the first year, actually, or maybe the second, I did something really interesting.
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I played a bunch of Scriabin preludes, the Opus 16 preludes, and there are five of them.
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And I played them all.
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And then I turned to the audience and I said, well, before I said, you know, there are this
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set actually reminds me so much of Nina Simone.
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And I'm curious if you hear what I hear in it.
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If you don't, it's fine.
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But if you do, I'd like to know which one of the preludes.
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And so I played them all.
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And there was one that I was specifically thinking about.
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And they said number one, number five, number three.
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And I thought, huh, because number four was the one that I absolutely attached.
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Absolutely attached to Nina Simone.
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There's something very haunting and lonely about her voice when she's singing ballads
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or even when she's singing tunes that should be a little bit more upbeat.
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There's still a profound sadness sometimes that comes through.
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And so this this prelude, which just has this melody, da da da da da da da da da da da
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and then chord chord and then the harmony changes.
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Right.
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And that I mean, it broke my heart every time I heard it, every time I worked on it.
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And I said, so number four, no one.
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And then, you know, the audience went, oh, yeah, I could I hear that.
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You know what I mean?
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But everyone had different ideas of what different things appeal to them.
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And I thought, you know, music is is fascinating.
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There's what I think and what I feel.
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And then there's everybody's going to receive it in a different way in a different context.
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I was kind of struck by the fact that this was a real opportunity to have a much more
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intimate relationship with the audience than I ever would.
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Right.
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Because normally we get on stage, we play, we bow, we maybe say a few words, maybe about
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our encore.
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And then, you know, that's done.
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And so there's this kind of mystery of being a classical pianist or musician or performer.
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And this way, I got to talk to people about, you know, my process and what I was thinking
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of and why I chose this and, you know, the connections from composer to composer.
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And so finally, in twenty eighteen, I had met enough musicians who were really interested
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in what I was doing and really sort of like, yeah, we want to support you.
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We want to do this and we want to support you.
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And you know, that is really profound and significant, especially in New York, because
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it's very hard to make a living.
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It's very hard to.
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It's just the daily grind is hard.
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And when musicians say, yeah, we're willing to rehearse every week, every two weeks, and
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we're willing to put in this time and we're willing to.
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We want to.
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We do want to give concerts in the community and we do want to do outreach.
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And they kind of trusted me to find the money, you know, and sort of helped with like there
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are two people specifically who became part of the team, you know.
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And so we sort of together were able to build something.
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And I know I don't take any of that for granted, like as much as it says, you know, I'm the
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executive and artistic director.
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Yeah, this was a team and it is a team in a lot of ways.
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Just to go back a little bit.
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So I read your bio and then Juneteenth LP was officially formed in the year 2019, I believe.
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That's a year before the, you know, of course, largest Black Lives Matter movement in 2020.
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And then so when I visited your website, I also heard the audio file of your statement
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in 2016 at the Joe's Pub in downtown Manhattan.
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So what to become of Juneteenth LP down the road.
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So spend years in the making, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And what really inspired you is it sounds like it's a gradual thing to form this.
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But was there a specific event or experience that really inspired you to create it?
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Or was it more like a gradual thing, started something small and became what it is today?
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Definitely there was a seed and the seed was this annual Juneteenth celebration at Joe's
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Pub.
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And then the more musicians that I met that were kind of simpatico with this idea that
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I had, the more I realized this could be something more than just one show, you know, in the
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year.
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And, and also I started paying attention to how people were reacting to the concert.
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We got a lot of kids coming up to musicians with stars in their eyes, like, I didn't know
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the violin could do this.
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You know, we had this violinist who wrote this piece called Evolution.
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His name is Ed Hardy and he sort of musically charted in this piece, you know, music and
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it went from spirituals to hip hop and scratching on the violin.
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And it was really kind of potent.
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But what was really amazing was watching these kids say, I play violin and I didn't know
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I could do that.
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I didn't know it could be like that.
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To watch him and the other musicians interact with these kids, like, yeah, there are tons
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of things you can do with this instrument.
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You know, this is, you know, the whole point of practice is to play and explore and to,
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so I was really kind of moved by that and realized that we could reach people in a way
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that was so much greater.
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00:16:09,800
Classical music audiences are small and we're, our concern is that it's dying off, right?
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That it's definitely an older community that really, really loves classical music and then
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grew up with it.
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And I think that my mom's generation is probably the last of the generation that sort of classical
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music was in the general, in the air generally, right?
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Now classical music is very sort of specific.
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00:16:35,600
And because it's specific, if you don't know the language and you don't know the codes
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to get in, you don't know how to access it, even if you love it, this provided an opportunity
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to reach so many more people and to reach people who would not necessarily think that
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they love classical music, but that they hear it and they go, that was, that was gorgeous.
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00:16:52,720
Or that was so interesting.
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I'd like to know more about this composer.
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00:17:00,720
One of the things that people ask me a lot is what is the impact you want your ensemble
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to have and then what is the impact you think it actually does have.
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00:17:13,480
And I think that I would say that what I want is for it to open people's ears, you know,
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in people's minds and open people's hearts.
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00:17:20,760
Nina Simone is, was interviewed once and she said, you know, we're all walking through
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the world in a way, a little dead inside, like we're, we're, we're just getting through
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our day, you know, and we're dealing with our things.
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And so we, we don't really see what's around us and we don't really interact with what's
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around us.
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It's just, we're getting through.
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And so we're all walking around kind of like zombies.
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00:17:43,480
And what I want, what she said, she said, what I want to do with my art is I want people
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00:17:49,320
to feel something, anything, just to feel something, to shake us out of that space.
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00:17:52,580
And I thought, you know, that's it.
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I just want people to feel something.
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00:18:01,160
And I want people to know that this music that is considered very elite and rare and,
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00:18:07,400
you know, all of those things that actually they have a cultural history with it as well.
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00:18:12,880
Like it is not something that they have to be on the outside looking in that their grandparents
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00:18:18,760
and their great grandparents, you know, broke barriers and were the first black conductor
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00:18:23,400
and, you know, and the first black composer to win this prize and the first black, you
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know, violinist.
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00:18:29,040
And so that there's a long history of black people in classical music and that they should
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know it as they know, you know, the history of African-Americans in America, for example.
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00:18:37,200
Now there are so many ways to look at this.
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00:18:43,960
So let's, let's go back, talk about the mission of your Juneteenth LP.
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00:18:50,800
And you briefly mentioned, but are you looking for, let's say platform to give the general
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00:18:56,400
audience to get to know the classical music by maybe doing in such a way that is more
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00:19:05,600
inviting or in the end, do you want to promote inclusion in a classical music or maybe both?
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00:19:09,760
I was about to say, I'm not sure that those are mutually exclusive at all.
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00:19:15,120
You know, I do want it to be more inviting and if, and, and also multi-generational,
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00:19:16,120
right?
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00:19:23,520
So we play music by black classical composers, but we also play, you know, we'll play a LISO
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00:19:27,600
arrangement and we'll play some arrangement of Stevie Wonder, we'll play an arrangement
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00:19:31,000
of Nina Simone and we'll play some Duke Ellington.
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00:19:37,400
And so all of a sudden you have a show in which like a seven-year-old is delighted that
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00:19:42,760
they hear something that they recognize, but also grandma and grandpa are delighted that
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00:19:45,760
they hear something that they love and recognize.
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00:19:51,440
And in between they're also being exposed to such a wide breadth of different composers
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00:19:57,240
and so that it's something that people can share sort of within the whole family.
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00:20:02,880
And that's wonderful, but also an introduction to, you know, you love, you love song.
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00:20:03,880
Well, H.T.
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00:20:07,440
Burley wrote some of the most beautiful art songs and some of them were arrangements of
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00:20:11,040
spirituals, which I know you know, because you know, you're a church going person and
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00:20:12,600
your family's from the South originally.
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00:20:18,280
So here's this music that is a part of your legacy, but you didn't realize also lives
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00:20:21,160
in the classical music canon.
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00:20:27,160
But I also think that classical music needs to sort of rethink how it wants to present
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00:20:33,320
itself, you know, and I think that contemporary classical composers, a lot of them are grappling
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00:20:38,800
with this and they're sort of writing in a way that's challenging norms and trying to
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00:20:42,620
get people to listen differently and think differently about the music.
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00:20:49,360
But also I think that we need to invite people who are not necessarily white and wealthy
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00:20:56,080
to like, because if we don't grow that audience, it will become tinier and tinier and tinier
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00:20:58,760
until there's until we have, you know what I mean?
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00:21:04,120
Like why not grow the audience so that we can actually make sure that the kids that
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00:21:08,720
we're teaching who want to be pianists will have audiences to play for, you know?
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00:21:08,720 -->
00:21:10,960
We are raising the audience also.
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00:21:13,240
Yes, not just the music players.
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00:21:14,240
I know.
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00:21:15,240
I totally understand.
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00:21:19,760
Now, I'm curious to know how you're accomplishing this mission.
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00:21:25,760
So is it by the concert series or just one event or tell us.
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00:21:32,360
So we we have sort of grown the out of this, you know, one show we we've grown into sort
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00:21:36,680
of a Juneteenth Festival week where we present more than one concert.
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00:21:39,360
We do about three or four.
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00:21:45,620
And we we do video concerts for other places where it's like, you know, it's it's really
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00:21:47,960
expensive for eight people to go to Boston.
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00:21:53,920
So, you know, Bunker Hill Community College, we do a Juneteenth show for them that is recorded.
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00:21:59,320
But we also do lectures and workshops and master classes and things like that.
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00:22:00,320
Throughout the year or?
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00:22:01,680
Yeah, throughout the year.
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00:22:04,560
Yeah, mostly January to June, but throughout the year.
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00:22:09,880
One of the things that I'm realizing is that because I am the artistic director of Juneteenth
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00:22:17,720
LP, a lot of times what I do also becomes sort of a reflection of the ensemble as well.
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00:22:23,440
So when I give a master class or when I present concerts and lectures, it is something that
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00:22:29,360
I always make sure to mention Juneteenth LP like we're sort of we're interconnected unity.
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00:22:31,520
It's not sorry.
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00:22:32,520
Interconnected entities.
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00:22:36,800
It's not just I'm a solo artist and I'm and I am a teacher and I do these things.
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00:22:38,080
And then there's Juneteenth LP.
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00:22:40,520
And that's a completely different thing.
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00:22:44,840
Often we find I find that we're working very much in conjunction.
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00:22:49,600
Like our our missions are the same, whether it's me individually or me as part of a group.
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00:22:55,400
And our intentions and our goals and our aesthetics principles are the same.
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00:23:00,240
So I'm still trying to sort out how that's going to work ultimately.
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00:23:02,160
But the drive is similar.
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00:23:04,840
And so sometimes we do things hand in hand.
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00:23:10,560
Like, for example, my my album is actually sort of has been released under the Juneteenth
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00:23:13,280
LP umbrella of recording projects.
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00:23:16,880
It's just the first of a bunch of recording projects that we have.
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00:23:20,760
Oh, you mean the latest album that you it's your solo album, right?
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00:23:22,520
Yeah, we're going to talk about that later.
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00:23:24,320
But the title is Luminous.
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00:23:25,320
Yes.
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00:23:26,320
Right.
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00:23:32,080
Which is available on major MSR Classics label was we release it through MSR Classics.
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00:23:36,280
And and it's available wherever you stream music.
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00:23:42,760
You know, on the Juneteenth LP website, it says, quote, Juneteenth LP LP brings together
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00:23:48,440
unexpected classical music and brilliantly crafted arrangements of more popular repertoire
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00:23:53,280
for refreshing take on live performances and educational music experiences.
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00:23:59,280
So I'm curious, what are you guys playing and what are unexpected classical music, which
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00:24:04,080
I can almost guess and brilliantly crafted arrangement that you mentioned that there
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00:24:10,120
are sometimes you do the arrangement by Stevie Wonder to many other like I saw an arrangement
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00:24:12,520
by Childish Gambino.
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00:24:17,960
And then, yeah, also, Mongo Santa Maria, Afro Blue.
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00:24:20,040
Yeah, I saw that arrangement as well.
353
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00:24:22,360
So who does these arrangements?
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00:24:30,760
And also, you are doing popular music and also probably African American classical music
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00:24:31,760
as well.
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00:24:36,280
So tell us when I was I'm going to go back a little bit when I was a kid, I actually
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00:24:43,000
the first music camp I went to was a school for composers, a summer school for composers.
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00:24:45,080
It was called the Walden School and it's up in New Hampshire.
359
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00:24:46,080
It still exists.
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00:24:48,840
It's a wonderful, wonderful institution.
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00:24:54,960
Because in that space, I got introduced to theory, ear training and composition.
362
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00:24:56,960
And their philosophy is really interesting.
363
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00:25:01,400
It's basically that whatever they're teaching, it's orally based.
364
00:25:01,400 -->
00:25:05,080
So it's you don't know it unless you can hear it.
365
00:25:05,080 -->
00:25:06,080
You can hear it.
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00:25:07,080
You can take dictation on it.
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00:25:08,080
You can sing it.
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00:25:10,560
You can, you know, which is very different.
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00:25:13,760
And I didn't realize how different it was till I got to college.
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00:25:15,340
And it's a wonderful.
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00:25:16,720
It was a wonderful experience.
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00:25:22,960
But what it did was it also introduced me to the idea of everyone is and can be a composer
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00:25:24,720
and should be to some extent.
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00:25:27,080
If you are in music, you should also be composing.
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00:25:30,320
Then you don't have to be composing like you're a serious composer.
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00:25:30,320 -->
00:25:33,880
You're out getting commissions and that's how you are you're living.
377
00:25:33,880 -->
00:25:39,800
But you should always be playing around with your instrument and making stuff up.
378
00:25:39,800 -->
00:25:40,800
Who does the arrangements?
379
00:25:40,800 -->
00:25:44,160
Well, I have tackled some arrangements.
380
00:25:44,160 -->
00:25:48,880
And because we were going to be doing more different genres, I started taking jazz piano
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00:25:55,760
lessons, which was a hilarious experience because I will admit right now that I was
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00:25:56,760
a terror.
383
00:25:56,760 -->
00:26:02,080
I am a terrible student in so many ways because there's no time.
384
00:26:02,080 -->
00:26:03,080
Right.
385
00:26:03,080 -->
00:26:04,880
And jazz is not one of those.
386
00:26:04,880 -->
00:26:05,880
Oh, yeah.
387
00:26:05,880 -->
00:26:08,040
You know, I play classical music and I have great chops.
388
00:26:08,040 -->
00:26:09,880
And so I'll just pick this thing up.
389
00:26:09,880 -->
00:26:11,640
Some people can and do.
390
00:26:11,640 -->
00:26:14,360
But that's a different that's almost a different talent.
391
00:26:14,360 -->
00:26:15,360
You know what I mean?
392
00:26:15,360 -->
00:26:19,600
Like they and you know, and it's so funny because people say, well, you play the piano,
393
00:26:19,600 -->
00:26:21,440
you should be able to do this.
394
00:26:21,440 -->
00:26:23,160
And I'm like, yeah, not necessarily.
395
00:26:23,160 -->
00:26:24,160
It's different.
396
00:26:24,160 -->
00:26:25,160
No, no, I know.
397
00:26:25,160 -->
00:26:26,160
I try.
398
00:26:26,160 -->
00:26:28,160
I try to miserably fail.
399
00:26:28,160 -->
00:26:29,160
Right.
400
00:26:29,160 -->
00:26:30,160
I totally understand.
401
00:26:30,160 -->
00:26:31,160
Yes.
402
00:26:31,160 -->
00:26:36,760
What's fascinating about studying jazz piano is that you're forced to really you have to
403
00:26:36,760 -->
00:26:41,600
reconcile yourself to the fact that our training for the most part, I know that there's a lot
404
00:26:41,600 -->
00:26:44,880
of there are places that train musicians really, really well.
405
00:26:44,880 -->
00:26:50,040
But for the most part, in classical music, we are very visually attached to the page
406
00:26:50,040 -->
00:26:52,160
and then we render the page.
407
00:26:52,160 -->
00:26:53,160
Right.
408
00:26:53,160 -->
00:26:57,000
And, you know, I've been I've had people say to me, well, that isn't very creative.
409
00:26:57,000 -->
00:27:01,240
And I said, well, actually it is because you make choices what you want to bring out, what
410
00:27:01,240 -->
00:27:02,240
you think is important.
411
00:27:02,240 -->
00:27:06,080
You know, you're basically a field guide for the listener.
412
00:27:06,080 -->
00:27:07,720
This is the line I want you to hear.
413
00:27:07,720 -->
00:27:11,360
And this is how it you know, I'm shaping a phrase in a certain way.
414
00:27:11,360 -->
00:27:12,960
And it's subtle and it's nuanced.
415
00:27:12,960 -->
00:27:18,840
And I can understand that it feels very different from a jazz type of form where you are creating
416
00:27:18,840 -->
00:27:19,840
in the moment.
417
00:27:19,840 -->
00:27:24,800
But as you and I both know, in every piano lesson we ever took, our teachers would tell
418
00:27:24,800 -->
00:27:29,800
us, exhort us to play in such a way that it sounds like we are creating this music in
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00:27:29,800 -->
00:27:30,800
the moment.
420
00:27:30,800 -->
00:27:31,800
Right.
421
00:27:31,800 -->
00:27:38,240
So from a very different way, like almost like a backwards way around, we are studying
422
00:27:38,240 -->
00:27:42,760
the score and learning and studying context and history so that we can come to this place
423
00:27:42,760 -->
00:27:46,240
where it sounds like we are making the music as we you know what I mean?
424
00:27:46,240 -->
00:27:48,280
We are creating it as we play it.
425
00:27:48,280 -->
00:27:51,120
And jazz musicians actually just create it.
426
00:27:51,120 -->
00:27:52,620
Right.
427
00:27:52,620 -->
00:27:59,240
And what is fascinating about that is you can think that you know harmony, but creating
428
00:27:59,240 -->
00:28:06,040
as your harmonic language shifts in time and, you know, in time, like harmony shifting in
429
00:28:06,040 -->
00:28:11,040
time and you have to, it just moves like the second hand of a clock just moves.
430
00:28:11,040 -->
00:28:12,640
You don't get to revisit.
431
00:28:12,640 -->
00:28:15,000
I didn't like how that goes until I'm going back.
432
00:28:15,000 -->
00:28:18,640
It's we're on to the next, you know.
433
00:28:18,640 -->
00:28:22,520
You know, if you're playing a 12 bar blues, let's swing around and it'll come back again.
434
00:28:22,520 -->
00:28:23,520
You get to try again.
435
00:28:23,520 -->
00:28:25,480
But this is what it is.
436
00:28:25,480 -->
00:28:31,200
And it's it took a long time for me to let go of the I didn't I didn't like that.
437
00:28:31,200 -->
00:28:32,320
Let me fix it.
438
00:28:32,320 -->
00:28:37,960
But once you do start to do that and once you start you allow yourself to be not comfortable
439
00:28:37,960 -->
00:28:44,120
because that's the thing we work so hard to make it perfect that there's a level of I
440
00:28:44,120 -->
00:28:48,240
am prepared and I am secure that absolutely does not exist.
441
00:28:48,240 -->
00:28:49,960
Well at least not as a jazz student.
442
00:28:49,960 -->
00:28:55,080
I'm sure you know if you're Ron Carter it exists, but it doesn't exist for me.
443
00:28:55,080 -->
00:28:58,160
And it doesn't exist for most people who are just starting where it is.
444
00:28:58,160 -->
00:29:01,240
It's a whole other world.
445
00:29:01,240 -->
00:29:02,980
And I totally understand.
446
00:29:02,980 -->
00:29:10,640
So during the program of Juneteenth LP, you combine this jazz elements and then with the
447
00:29:10,640 -->
00:29:13,960
classical elements and the pop too, right?
448
00:29:13,960 -->
00:29:14,960
Wow.
449
00:29:14,960 -->
00:29:18,760
That is really, really cool because I would love to attend that.
450
00:29:18,760 -->
00:29:19,760
Yeah.
451
00:29:19,760 -->
00:29:21,520
I mean, you're always welcome.
452
00:29:21,520 -->
00:29:24,400
And I would be delighted to get you a ticket.
453
00:29:24,400 -->
00:29:29,500
But what's what's interesting is that because I started studying jazz and I started saying,
454
00:29:29,500 -->
00:29:33,480
when we arrange this tune, like I thought Afro Blue would be perfect for us.
455
00:29:33,480 -->
00:29:34,820
Let's arrange it.
456
00:29:34,820 -->
00:29:39,160
And I was working with Neil Kirkwood at Third Street and he would help me with some arrangements,
457
00:29:39,160 -->
00:29:42,040
but also, you know, I would tweak a lot of the things.
458
00:29:42,040 -->
00:29:46,760
And so it was a real collaborative process, which I enjoyed, but I started to become a
459
00:29:46,760 -->
00:29:49,960
little bit more comfortable with improvising.
460
00:29:49,960 -->
00:29:54,840
And then we started sort of, well, there's this song and we all love it, but we're going
461
00:29:54,840 -->
00:30:00,080
to have a break where individuals can solo and I would be soloing sometimes.
462
00:30:00,080 -->
00:30:02,320
And it was terrifying.
463
00:30:02,320 -->
00:30:03,880
It still actually is.
464
00:30:03,880 -->
00:30:07,840
But you know, you are improvising.
465
00:30:07,840 -->
00:30:10,840
I am improvising.
466
00:30:10,840 -->
00:30:13,000
It is nuts.
467
00:30:13,000 -->
00:30:16,640
And you know, it's really funny in the same way that when, you know, you give a concert
468
00:30:16,640 -->
00:30:17,920
and you think, oh, that was okay.
469
00:30:17,920 -->
00:30:21,160
I didn't like the way I did this and I didn't like the way I did that.
470
00:30:21,160 -->
00:30:25,560
And then a month later you listen to the concert and you say, wow, that was really good.
471
00:30:25,560 -->
00:30:27,160
Why did I think it wasn't good?
472
00:30:27,160 -->
00:30:28,320
That was really good.
473
00:30:28,320 -->
00:30:29,320
It's the same thing.
474
00:30:29,320 -->
00:30:33,720
Like I will improvise and well, whatever, just keep moving.
475
00:30:33,720 -->
00:30:37,440
It wasn't, I don't know, hopefully nobody noticed.
476
00:30:37,440 -->
00:30:41,840
And then I listened to it and I think, well, that wasn't terrible at all.
477
00:30:41,840 -->
00:30:43,000
Hello, right?
478
00:30:43,000 -->
00:30:45,560
That's great.
479
00:30:45,560 -->
00:30:52,040
And so it's teaching me to be okay with uncertainty and to be okay with not being able to control
480
00:30:52,040 -->
00:30:53,040
everything.
481
00:30:53,040 -->
00:30:55,680
That is a very different concept from classical performance.
482
00:30:55,680 -->
00:30:56,680
Yes.
483
00:30:56,680 -->
00:31:00,080
But I think that what you need to be in control of when you're improvising, you need to be
484
00:31:00,080 -->
00:31:01,880
in control of the harmonic language.
485
00:31:01,880 -->
00:31:04,840
Like you need to know that.
486
00:31:04,840 -->
00:31:09,560
And then with that framework, the world is your oyster, but also terrifying.
487
00:31:09,560 -->
00:31:10,560
Yes.
488
00:31:10,560 -->
00:31:17,400
And I think that that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising.
489
00:31:17,400 -->
00:31:30,900
And so I think that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising.
490
00:31:30,900 -->
00:31:58,560
And so I think that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising.
491
00:31:58,560 -->
00:32:13,760
Yes.
492
00:32:43,760 -->
00:32:52,920
One of the things that was monumental was obviously 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement.
493
00:32:52,920 -->
00:32:58,400
And then you are already starting the Juneteenth LP before that, right?
494
00:32:58,400 -->
00:33:03,520
And then so the 2020, the year 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement, which brought
495
00:33:03,520 -->
00:33:10,040
the day, the Juneteenth to many people's awareness finally, and especially unfortunate death
496
00:33:10,040 -->
00:33:11,840
of Mr. George Floyd.
497
00:33:11,840 -->
00:33:17,360
And of course, finally Juneteenth became a federal holiday in 2021.
498
00:33:17,360 -->
00:33:22,920
So I'd like to know your own personal experience of that year as much as you can.
499
00:33:22,920 -->
00:33:28,160
I know it's still a sensitive topic, but because you have already started this project before
500
00:33:28,160 -->
00:33:34,040
that and what's been like with your Juneteenth LP journey since then?
501
00:33:34,040 -->
00:33:40,000
Well when I started, I was kind of, I was talking about the fact that I wanted to celebrate
502
00:33:40,000 -->
00:33:42,040
Juneteenth Freedom Day, right?
503
00:33:42,040 -->
00:33:44,800
It's called Freedom Day or Liberation Day.
504
00:33:44,800 -->
00:33:48,160
I wanted to celebrate it from an artist standpoint.
505
00:33:48,160 -->
00:33:55,240
So I wanted to celebrate these musicians who post Juneteenth, their world was far more
506
00:33:55,240 -->
00:33:57,340
open than it had ever been.
507
00:33:57,340 -->
00:34:01,040
And I'm not saying that it was easy and all of a sudden people had access to everything,
508
00:34:01,040 -->
00:34:06,840
but you had the opportunity possibly to have a life that wasn't plantation bound necessarily,
509
00:34:06,840 -->
00:34:07,960
right?
510
00:34:07,960 -->
00:34:11,560
And so what did people do with that freedom?
511
00:34:11,560 -->
00:34:15,720
And taking that step into the unknown is actually a terrifying thing.
512
00:34:15,720 -->
00:34:20,520
Like if you were raised in a plantation system or if you were raised in subjugation or you
513
00:34:20,520 -->
00:34:25,660
were raised in one kind of climate and then you decide that you want something different
514
00:34:25,660 -->
00:34:31,680
for yourself, you know, and it's sometimes not as obvious as slaved and then not enslaved,
515
00:34:31,680 -->
00:34:33,160
you know, slaving and free.
516
00:34:33,160 -->
00:34:39,240
It is sometimes as it can be as nuanced as you come from a family of people who believe
517
00:34:39,240 -->
00:34:42,660
that the next generation should lift up the next generation.
518
00:34:42,660 -->
00:34:48,560
And so everyone is going to go to college and become a professor or a doctor or a lawyer
519
00:34:48,560 -->
00:34:53,080
and then someone says, yeah, but I want to paint.
520
00:34:53,080 -->
00:34:58,720
That is a scary and terrifying path to take if that's not the norm for your family, your
521
00:34:58,720 -->
00:35:00,920
tribe, your environment, right?
522
00:35:00,920 -->
00:35:06,800
And so I wanted to sort of celebrate these people who were invariably incredible risk
523
00:35:06,800 -->
00:35:12,360
takers, even if they came from musical families, just to be black in America and to be doing
524
00:35:12,360 -->
00:35:15,360
what they were doing was something extraordinary.
525
00:35:15,360 -->
00:35:19,960
And the fact that they persisted, like in the face of incredible difficulties, they
526
00:35:19,960 -->
00:35:21,120
persisted.
527
00:35:21,120 -->
00:35:29,800
But then, you know, when George Floyd was killed, it was very interesting.
528
00:35:29,800 -->
00:35:33,920
And people ask you what you know, what was how did you deal with it or what you were
529
00:35:33,920 -->
00:35:35,600
going through?
530
00:35:35,600 -->
00:35:45,440
And honestly, and I apologize if this is this feels harsh, but the hardest thing was realizing
531
00:35:45,440 -->
00:35:49,080
to what extent I was people's only black friend.
532
00:35:49,080 -->
00:35:56,200
And so what I got was a lot of other people feeling bad and then thinking they were going
533
00:35:56,200 -->
00:35:58,480
to feel better by reaching out to me.
534
00:35:58,480 -->
00:36:00,760
Do you know what I'm saying?
535
00:36:00,760 -->
00:36:06,960
And in fact, I didn't feel shock for oh, also, you should know I didn't watch the video.
536
00:36:06,960 -->
00:36:13,080
I didn't watch the video because what happened to George Floyd has been happening to black
537
00:36:13,080 -->
00:36:19,040
people for centuries, whether it was a lynching or police violence.
538
00:36:19,040 -->
00:36:25,760
I mean, you know, Rodney King was videotaped in that was 1992, I believe.
539
00:36:25,760 -->
00:36:29,800
And what was traumatic about that was not that it happened because we knew things like
540
00:36:29,800 -->
00:36:31,060
that happen.
541
00:36:31,060 -->
00:36:38,000
But the fact that there was video, and yet it seemed to leave the world relatively unchanged.
542
00:36:38,000 -->
00:36:39,000
Do you know what I mean?
543
00:36:39,000 -->
00:36:43,640
Like this reckoning that we had post George Floyd, there should have been a reckoning
544
00:36:43,640 -->
00:36:47,100
like that after the Rodney King assault.
545
00:36:47,100 -->
00:36:52,240
But there wasn't, you know, and it seemed to me that I think that there was something
546
00:36:52,240 -->
00:36:56,960
particularly gruesome about George Floyd's death and the fact that we now live in a viral
547
00:36:56,960 -->
00:36:57,960
age.
548
00:36:57,960 -->
00:37:03,560
So you can miss the Rodney King thing if you hadn't been watching TV at that time.
549
00:37:03,560 -->
00:37:06,760
But you could not escape what happened with George Floyd.
550
00:37:06,760 -->
00:37:08,400
It was everywhere.
551
00:37:08,400 -->
00:37:14,720
And so for me, I was more grieving at how, how often it seemed to happen.
552
00:37:14,720 -->
00:37:16,480
Do you know what I mean?
553
00:37:16,480 -->
00:37:18,320
And in some ways, the world changed.
554
00:37:18,320 -->
00:37:23,720
And so I'm grateful for that, and I'm grateful that I'm, of course, happy that Juneteenth
555
00:37:23,720 -->
00:37:26,200
is now a federal holiday.
556
00:37:26,200 -->
00:37:31,600
But it also made me realize there's something bizarrely, there's something a little bit
557
00:37:31,600 -->
00:37:37,800
obscene with how immediately suddenly there were Juneteenth events.
558
00:37:37,800 -->
00:37:38,800
Do you know what I mean?
559
00:37:38,800 -->
00:37:42,960
That, and it reminded me, oh, yeah, this is a business too, isn't it?
560
00:37:42,960 -->
00:37:47,960
And so, yeah, you know, and I'm glad that there are events.
561
00:37:47,960 -->
00:37:52,960
But also there's something a little bit gross about it, you know, it's hard, you know, like
562
00:37:52,960 -->
00:37:55,520
it's not a, it's not a fun conversation to have.
563
00:37:55,520 -->
00:38:01,280
But like I said, I'm really grateful that it's, you know, it should be a national holiday.
564
00:38:01,280 -->
00:38:02,280
So I'm glad that it is.
565
00:38:02,280 -->
00:38:08,680
But you know, by asking this question, I don't mean to, like put you in a place, a spot where
566
00:38:08,680 -->
00:38:15,480
you are like all of a sudden the representative of this whole entire Juneteenth or Black Lives
567
00:38:15,480 -->
00:38:16,480
Matter movement.
568
00:38:16,480 -->
00:38:17,480
No.
569
00:38:17,480 -->
00:38:21,120
And I didn't, I didn't receive it that way at all.
570
00:38:21,120 -->
00:38:22,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
571
00:38:22,120 -->
00:38:26,960
And I appreciate the question because it's, it allows me to sort of, you know, I don't
572
00:38:26,960 -->
00:38:29,640
think I've, I've articulated this.
573
00:38:29,640 -->
00:38:31,720
I've had an opportunity to articulate this.
574
00:38:31,720 -->
00:38:34,520
And so I was, I'm glad to do it.
575
00:38:34,520 -->
00:38:39,080
You know, it's funny, I say this to my friends often, but there are a lot of things that
576
00:38:39,080 -->
00:38:43,520
were made possible because of George Floyd's death.
577
00:38:43,520 -->
00:38:49,080
And it is horrible and horrifying that that was the case.
578
00:38:49,080 -->
00:38:52,360
But I mean, it changed us.
579
00:38:52,360 -->
00:38:57,880
And I'm glad it did, you know, because it would be appalling if something like that
580
00:38:57,880 -->
00:39:00,240
were to happen and it didn't change us.
581
00:39:00,240 -->
00:39:04,880
You know, even, you know, you could argue whether it's changed us societally a lot or
582
00:39:04,880 -->
00:39:07,680
a little, but I'm, I'm grateful.
583
00:39:07,680 -->
00:39:12,400
And I'm devastated that people had to lose their, like a family had to lose someone that
584
00:39:12,400 -->
00:39:15,080
they loved, you know, for this to happen.
585
00:39:15,080 -->
00:39:20,080
It's kind of like when Martin Luther King was assassinated and Malcolm X was assassinated,
586
00:39:20,080 -->
00:39:21,080
it was assassinated.
587
00:39:21,080 -->
00:39:25,000
You kind of, those were turning points in American history.
588
00:39:25,000 -->
00:39:26,800
But did someone have to die?
589
00:39:26,800 -->
00:39:28,680
Did children have to lose their parents?
590
00:39:28,680 -->
00:39:31,680
Did a woman have to lose, did women have to lose their husbands behind that?
591
00:39:31,680 -->
00:39:34,240
But I don't know, I'm getting a little.
592
00:39:34,240 -->
00:39:37,980
I know it's a very tough topic and I'm sorry.
593
00:39:37,980 -->
00:39:43,720
But I appreciate you for really opening up and telling me because it's important to talk
594
00:39:43,720 -->
00:39:46,400
about and we need to do better too, you know?
595
00:39:46,400 -->
00:39:50,920
It's not just that his death, but I think we have to do even better.
596
00:39:50,920 -->
00:39:53,560
So thank you for opening up.
597
00:39:53,560 -->
00:40:00,360
So just to change the mood of our conversation, I really want to congratulate you for all
598
00:40:00,360 -->
00:40:05,360
the hard work you spend with the, especially Juneteenth LP and then your dedication was
599
00:40:05,360 -->
00:40:11,120
finally recognized in 2022 last year when you received the Chamber Music America Artist
600
00:40:11,120 -->
00:40:17,880
Grant and this accolade transformed your annual Juneteenth celebration from a one night event
601
00:40:17,880 -->
00:40:23,560
at the Joe's Pub at the Public Theater to a week long New York City extravaganza.
602
00:40:23,560 -->
00:40:24,640
Congratulations.
603
00:40:24,640 -->
00:40:29,760
So I know to get a grant from the government, right?
604
00:40:29,760 -->
00:40:31,960
That's not easy, extremely difficult.
605
00:40:31,960 -->
00:40:37,640
Yes, Chamber Music America is I think a private organization, but I mean this year I am applying
606
00:40:37,640 -->
00:40:39,440
for city and state grants.
607
00:40:39,440 -->
00:40:45,580
You know, it is a long and arduous process and I was very lucky to have one of my team
608
00:40:45,580 -->
00:40:51,800
members who was just there and you know, it took us consistent work over together, working
609
00:40:51,800 -->
00:40:55,200
together over the course of a month to prepare this grant proposal.
610
00:40:55,200 -->
00:41:00,000
But what was really interesting about it was that it really does lay the groundwork for
611
00:41:00,000 -->
00:41:06,840
us, so we got to learn how to apply for grants from an organizational level or you know,
612
00:41:06,840 -->
00:41:10,520
and it's different from applying for a grant as an individual.
613
00:41:10,520 -->
00:41:14,760
And so that was an incredible sort of steep learning curve.
614
00:41:14,760 -->
00:41:19,960
And as I am applying for grants now in this round, it's a lot easier in some ways.
615
00:41:19,960 -->
00:41:24,600
I don't have the same team members, but it is easier because that that groundwork was
616
00:41:24,600 -->
00:41:26,140
laid, you know.
617
00:41:26,140 -->
00:41:32,040
But I will say that it is a constant struggle of getting your projects funded, getting,
618
00:41:32,040 -->
00:41:36,120
you know, getting funding for your projects so that you can present.
619
00:41:36,120 -->
00:41:42,400
And I tell people all the time, I feel like that no matter what I do, there's always this
620
00:41:42,400 -->
00:41:47,040
next challenge on the horizon that is unlike anything I've done before.
621
00:41:47,040 -->
00:41:52,660
And so it feels like I'm a beginner again and again and again.
622
00:41:52,660 -->
00:41:54,120
And I thought to myself, but you know what?
623
00:41:54,120 -->
00:41:58,880
I remember telling students you have to be unafraid to not know what's going on.
624
00:41:58,880 -->
00:42:04,160
But you have to be OK with not knowing because eventually you work at it and then you will
625
00:42:04,160 -->
00:42:05,160
know.
626
00:42:05,160 -->
00:42:06,800
But then there'll be another challenge.
627
00:42:06,800 -->
00:42:07,800
You know?
628
00:42:07,800 -->
00:42:08,800
I know.
629
00:42:08,800 -->
00:42:09,800
Totally, totally.
630
00:42:09,800 -->
00:42:10,800
But congratulations.
631
00:42:10,800 -->
00:42:12,760
That's a big thing.
632
00:42:12,760 -->
00:42:17,080
And then, you know, I really hope to attend the future events.
633
00:42:17,080 -->
00:42:22,400
And I know this Juneteenth LP is going to be even bigger and because the message is
634
00:42:22,400 -->
00:42:23,400
right.
635
00:42:23,400 -->
00:42:28,080
So I also want to know a little bit about other musicians who are involved, like who's
636
00:42:28,080 -->
00:42:30,840
the member or who would be the guest?
637
00:42:30,840 -->
00:42:36,160
One of the first people that I met doing the show was cellist Eric Cooper.
638
00:42:36,160 -->
00:42:42,040
He's a really amazing musician, but also he has a quartet called Sterling Strings.
639
00:42:42,040 -->
00:42:44,560
And this quartet does really amazing work.
640
00:42:44,560 -->
00:42:47,720
And they they do these great arrangements of popular music.
641
00:42:47,720 -->
00:42:50,400
Their improvising chops are wonderful.
642
00:42:50,400 -->
00:42:55,400
But it's very funny when we're in rehearsal because, you know, we're doing Childish Gambino
643
00:42:55,400 -->
00:42:57,360
or Lizzo or whatever.
644
00:42:57,360 -->
00:43:00,000
And they're like, yeah, you know, we're very familiar with this.
645
00:43:00,000 -->
00:43:01,440
Let's just play it through and go.
646
00:43:01,440 -->
00:43:04,040
And I'm like, I am not familiar with this.
647
00:43:04,040 -->
00:43:09,760
I am not familiar with improvising and I need to play it more than once.
648
00:43:09,760 -->
00:43:13,360
So we're coming from very different places and they're like, yeah, it's no problem.
649
00:43:13,360 -->
00:43:15,880
And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so hard.
650
00:43:15,880 -->
00:43:21,160
But it's great to be able to work with an ensemble that is so capable in that way.
651
00:43:21,160 -->
00:43:26,480
And so we have a singer and we have our newest singer is Kristin Devine.
652
00:43:26,480 -->
00:43:30,800
She has this really wonderful voice and it's been a pleasure working with her.
653
00:43:30,800 -->
00:43:38,060
And we have this fabulous, fabulous percussionist, Shirzett Tinnen, who is just absolutely brilliant.
654
00:43:38,060 -->
00:43:43,360
She and her ensemble opened up the Women in Jazz series up here in Harlem.
655
00:43:43,360 -->
00:43:46,160
I believe I forgot to mention.
656
00:43:46,160 -->
00:43:51,880
So our first violinist, Frederique Namaam is an African Caribbean violinist from the
657
00:43:51,880 -->
00:43:55,640
Boston area and she is a powerhouse arranger.
658
00:43:55,640 -->
00:43:59,000
And so she's been doing a lot of our arrangements.
659
00:43:59,000 -->
00:44:04,200
But also this year, I believe Shirzett is going to do a couple of arrangements for us.
660
00:44:04,200 -->
00:44:08,400
And so we're just kind of collecting these musicians that vibe with us well.
661
00:44:08,400 -->
00:44:12,520
I just feel really lucky that a group of musicians that we.
662
00:44:12,520 -->
00:44:17,200
And not only do we enjoy playing together, you know, it's a really great energy, but
663
00:44:17,200 -->
00:44:19,640
also we just enjoy hanging out.
664
00:44:19,640 -->
00:44:20,640
That's wonderful.
665
00:44:20,640 -->
00:44:22,080
That's a dream come true.
666
00:44:22,080 -->
00:44:25,240
It's very hard to collaborate, but that speaks volume about you.
667
00:44:25,240 -->
00:44:29,360
You know, you have that ability to put things together, put people together.
668
00:44:29,360 -->
00:44:35,360
So what would you like your audience to experience from attending the concerts?
669
00:44:35,360 -->
00:44:39,880
I want them to hear music they've never heard before and hopefully be delighted by it and
670
00:44:39,880 -->
00:44:42,160
hopefully be interested and engaged.
671
00:44:42,160 -->
00:44:48,120
I want them to come away with it thinking, I want to know more about Margaret Bonds.
672
00:44:48,120 -->
00:44:50,680
I want to know more about William Grant still.
673
00:44:50,680 -->
00:44:54,160
I want to know more about whomever we've presented.
674
00:44:54,160 -->
00:44:55,360
That's what I want.
675
00:44:55,360 -->
00:44:58,320
And what's great is that we live in an era where they can literally put that in their
676
00:44:58,320 -->
00:45:03,800
phone and pull up, you know, whatever Trevor Weston's got, whatever and Kiro Koei has got.
677
00:45:03,800 -->
00:45:05,240
There's a sound cloud for that.
678
00:45:05,240 -->
00:45:06,680
There's a Spotify.
679
00:45:06,680 -->
00:45:09,160
Primarily that's what I want.
680
00:45:09,160 -->
00:45:16,200
And also I want them to hear pop standards or blues standards or whatever in a different
681
00:45:16,200 -->
00:45:19,440
way because we're playing it, their strings.
682
00:45:19,440 -->
00:45:24,320
How much Marvin Gaye have you heard that's been, you know, string centered, string heavy
683
00:45:24,320 -->
00:45:25,320
or string forward?
684
00:45:25,320 -->
00:45:27,360
Oh, I would love to hear that.
685
00:45:27,360 -->
00:45:28,360
Yeah.
686
00:45:28,360 -->
00:45:33,440
I mean, you know, it's a lot of fun and it's a lot of, it's really engaging.
687
00:45:33,440 -->
00:45:37,440
Before I, you know, we go to the next segment, which is about your life, but I want to ask
688
00:45:37,440 -->
00:45:41,520
one last question from this Juneteenth LP.
689
00:45:41,520 -->
00:45:47,400
What did you gain or what important life lesson did you experience from launching and building
690
00:45:47,400 -->
00:45:48,400
the Juneteenth LP?
691
00:45:48,400 -->
00:45:52,880
What I've learned is that the most important thing that you can do is to put one foot in
692
00:45:52,880 -->
00:45:54,040
front of the other.
693
00:45:54,040 -->
00:45:56,320
It doesn't matter if it feels like it's working.
694
00:45:56,320 -->
00:45:59,240
It doesn't matter if it feels like it's right.
695
00:45:59,240 -->
00:46:03,120
Just you have to get up and you have to put one foot in front of the other.
696
00:46:03,120 -->
00:46:04,920
And my mother used to talk about this.
697
00:46:04,920 -->
00:46:07,960
She struggled, you know, as we all do.
698
00:46:07,960 -->
00:46:12,940
And I, and I remember saying to her, how, how are you able to do that?
699
00:46:12,940 -->
00:46:20,320
How are you able to work from 3pm to midnight because they wouldn't give you a reasonable
700
00:46:20,320 -->
00:46:27,840
shift at the hospital and then get up at six in the morning to take me to school?
701
00:46:27,840 -->
00:46:29,320
How did you do that?
702
00:46:29,320 -->
00:46:30,320
And she said two things.
703
00:46:30,320 -->
00:46:35,640
She said, well, first of all, when you have kids, you become capable of all kinds of things
704
00:46:35,640 -->
00:46:40,320
that you know darn well you could not do if you didn't have these kids to take care of.
705
00:46:40,320 -->
00:46:45,920
But also, and I'd heard her say this to more than a few people, I'm just stumbling and bumbling
706
00:46:45,920 -->
00:46:46,920
along.
707
00:46:46,920 -->
00:46:49,120
Like it doesn't look right.
708
00:46:49,120 -->
00:46:50,260
It doesn't feel right.
709
00:46:50,260 -->
00:46:52,400
It doesn't seem like I'm succeeding.
710
00:46:52,400 -->
00:46:56,560
I'm just today I'm going to get up and I'm going to try again.
711
00:46:56,560 -->
00:46:58,760
That's the thing that is the most important thing.
712
00:46:58,760 -->
00:47:04,440
I think that people who build things that last just persist.
713
00:47:04,440 -->
00:47:08,280
Do you remember that speed skater was his name, Eric Hayden?
714
00:47:08,280 -->
00:47:13,760
There was a speed skater who kept in the Olympics and the Olympics every four years, he kept
715
00:47:13,760 -->
00:47:18,280
skating and like he'd make it to the and he would fall.
716
00:47:18,280 -->
00:47:19,520
He would fall.
717
00:47:19,520 -->
00:47:21,000
He would not be able to fit.
718
00:47:21,000 -->
00:47:24,040
And he was always, he was always clearly like the best.
719
00:47:24,040 -->
00:47:25,960
They expected him to win.
720
00:47:25,960 -->
00:47:28,880
And yet something would always happen and something would always happen.
721
00:47:28,880 -->
00:47:31,640
I think it was like his fourth Olympics.
722
00:47:31,640 -->
00:47:36,640
Do you know how old like athletes do not have a long shelf life, right?
723
00:47:36,640 -->
00:47:42,360
And when he finally broke through and won, it was like the whole world was unified in
724
00:47:42,360 -->
00:47:51,420
this moment of my gosh, like, yes, you know, and then away, he will be remembered forever.
725
00:47:51,420 -->
00:47:54,360
I get choked up when I remember his breakthrough.
726
00:47:54,360 -->
00:47:55,360
Do you know what I mean?
727
00:47:55,360 -->
00:48:01,760
I and I remember where I was watching each time he didn't and each time he crashed and
728
00:48:01,760 -->
00:48:04,920
burned and sort of weak families watching the Olympics again.
729
00:48:04,920 -->
00:48:06,240
And then it happened.
730
00:48:06,240 -->
00:48:11,480
It takes what feels like forever to achieve the thing that you're trying to achieve.
731
00:48:11,480 -->
00:48:14,720
Your job is not to predict when your success is going to happen.
732
00:48:14,720 -->
00:48:19,520
And your job is not to, you know, you're not in charge of the universe.
733
00:48:19,520 -->
00:48:23,840
You don't get to know if it's going to happen tomorrow, if it's going to happen in 20 years.
734
00:48:23,840 -->
00:48:27,880
Your job is to get up in the morning and say, I am committed to this thing that I'm going
735
00:48:27,880 -->
00:48:28,880
to do.
736
00:48:28,880 -->
00:48:30,480
And so I'm going to do it.
737
00:48:30,480 -->
00:48:36,040
And sometimes it is exhausting and it is lonely and it is frustrating.
738
00:48:36,040 -->
00:48:40,360
And you're you're you feel broken half the times that you're doing it.
739
00:48:40,360 -->
00:48:48,480
But also, when you do get to that level, you realize that you are enjoying it because you
740
00:48:48,480 -->
00:48:50,160
knew what it took.
741
00:48:50,160 -->
00:48:51,160
Right.
742
00:48:51,160 -->
00:48:56,760
And then also you realize, oh, there's another mountain.
743
00:48:56,760 -->
00:48:57,760
I climbed this.
744
00:48:57,760 -->
00:48:59,520
Oh, there's another mountain.
745
00:48:59,520 -->
00:49:00,520
Right.
746
00:49:00,520 -->
00:49:01,520
Yeah.
747
00:49:01,520 -->
00:49:05,040
I'm comfortable because it is always striving and always climbing.
748
00:49:05,040 -->
00:49:06,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
749
00:49:06,040 -->
00:49:07,040
I hear you.
750
00:49:07,040 -->
00:49:11,440
And thank you for the reminder, because, you know, sometimes when I do this podcast, it's
751
00:49:11,440 -->
00:49:12,560
I enjoy it.
752
00:49:12,560 -->
00:49:16,080
But it's like, like you said, one foot in front of the other.
753
00:49:16,080 -->
00:49:18,600
It's like every day you do this that matters.
754
00:49:18,600 -->
00:49:25,680
It's not about when you achieve how much you achieve.
755
00:49:25,680 -->
00:49:30,560
And that's a wrap for the first part of this engaging episode on the PianoPod with a guest,
756
00:49:30,560 -->
00:49:32,280
Dr. Nena Ogro.
757
00:49:32,280 -->
00:49:37,000
If you have been enjoying our episodes, please take a moment to rate and review us on your
758
00:49:37,000 -->
00:49:38,820
favorite podcast platform.
759
00:49:38,820 -->
00:49:42,940
You can also watch our episodes on the PianoPod YouTube channel.
760
00:49:42,940 -->
00:49:47,280
As we kick off our fourth season, we owe it all to your support.
761
00:49:47,280 -->
00:49:52,960
Since 2020, we've been exploring how to make classical music resonate in fresh ways with
762
00:49:52,960 -->
00:49:54,660
today's audience.
763
00:49:54,660 -->
00:49:58,640
But to continue bringing you these episodes, we need your support.
764
00:49:58,640 -->
00:50:02,800
Every contribution goes toward essential podcast expenses.
765
00:50:02,800 -->
00:50:04,640
Want to be part of this journey?
766
00:50:04,640 -->
00:50:09,580
Click the PayPal link in the show notes or visit the pianopod.com to donate.
767
00:50:09,580 -->
00:50:14,920
I'll personally mail you the PianoPod's logo sticker as a token of gratitude.
768
00:50:14,920 -->
00:50:20,040
So hit that subscribe button, spread the word, and don't forget to follow the PianoPod on
769
00:50:20,040 -->
00:50:21,240
social media.
770
00:50:21,240 -->
00:50:23,280
The links are in the description.
771
00:50:23,280 -->
00:50:29,360
Tune in next Tuesday, October 24th at 8 p.m. for the rest of the interview with Dr. Nena
772
00:50:29,360 -->
00:50:52,560
Agpa.
