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00:00:23.629you don't do it for the moment of podium and stripy jersey and whatever that, because as I walk down off the podium and you realize that the process of preparing and with your team and discipline and the consistency and the curiosity to see can get better is what drives you.
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00:00:30.870What does it take to be the fastest in the world, Not just once, but time and time again?
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00:00:35.131And what can business leaders learn from world record-breaking athletes?
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00:00:47.881Well, today we sit down with Richard Oakes, a four-time world champion, national record holder and co-founder of Team O-10 AVS, the world's fastest master's cycling team.
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00:00:51.072But Richard isn't just dominating the track.
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00:01:02.468He's also reshaping how high performance thinking applies in the business world, coaching elite firms to work smarter, perform under pressure and embrace marginal gains for success.
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00:01:11.530In this episode, we uncover the secrets of elite endurance, from pushing past plateaus to balancing ambition with longevity.
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00:01:22.206Richard shares how data resilience and the mindset of a champion can transform not just your performance but your career and your health.
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00:01:31.733If you want world-class strategies to go faster, think sharper and achieve more, this is the episode you can't afford to miss.
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00:01:35.990So let's dive into the conversation with Richard Oakes.
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00:01:38.302Do you know what?
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00:01:42.743When we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting.
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00:01:49.006We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button.
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00:02:12.352So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode, If you're enjoying, Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and make it even better is to hit that subscribe button.
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00:02:23.450And here's my promise to you when you subscribe, we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week.
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00:02:29.986So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the Business of Endurance community.
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00:02:31.550Let's dive in.
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00:02:37.044So, Richard, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast.
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00:02:52.199I know we've chatted a bit before, so I'm really looking forward to kind of hearing more of the stories that I haven't heard before and kind of digging into the detail of what's got you to where you are, both on the track or on the bike and in the world of business.
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00:02:57.348But I'd really love to start by dialing it right back to where did cycling start for you?
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00:02:59.608What was your younger years look like?
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00:03:01.687How did that look like in cycling?
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00:03:05.848How did you get into cycling and what was your early cycling career?
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00:03:07.425Like Me, on both.
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00:03:13.205It's a privilege to be here and the business of endurance resonates with me massively, so I'm in the right place.
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00:03:17.610And so cycling goes back a long, long way for me.
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00:03:23.586So my first memories of cycling I'm eight years old, right, so it goes way back.
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00:03:26.225And I remember following my dad's wheel.
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00:03:39.825You know it was a sunny afternoon riding out towards Grantham on the A1 there to watch a professional bike race go past the great, the London to York bike race that used to race up the A1, right, that's how long ago it was.
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00:03:41.967So this is like nearly 50 years ago.
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00:03:43.561And I just remember the feeling.
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00:03:45.843I had this little 24-inch wheel racing bike.
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00:03:47.465You know that cost £8.
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00:03:51.509And I just remember the freedom and feeling like this, just like I had wings.
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00:03:54.693You know I'm a working class lad from a working class part of Nottingham.
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00:03:58.437You know this was freedom, right, it was brilliant.
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00:03:59.860It was like wow.
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00:04:09.370You know I remember the green fields and the corn swaying in the wind and the blue sky and following my dad's wheel and just the whole experience was just completely transformational.
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00:04:17.033And you can tell when I talk about it I never forget it, and so where did that kind of first buzz lead you as a junior cyclist?
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00:04:19.449About nine I entered my first race.
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00:04:22.249So then you could race, like when you were really little, right.
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00:04:33.588And so I remember it was a closed circuit race hall, mental hospital look, it was around the grounds of that place and I remember racing and winning my first race and it was like wow, this is amazing.
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00:04:38.547You know my under 10 race and then, and you know, my brother's a really good cyclist.
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00:04:47.216My dad has always been into cycling so you know, clearly I had a like a physiological bent towards being a good cyclist.
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00:04:50.228You know I've got a big aerobic engine obviously to drive that.
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00:05:01.367And then cycling just took me, you know, to being a sort of national record holder and riding for the England sort of schoolboy team and riding against Chris Boardman and riders like that.
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00:05:05.113You know, back back in the day being on schoolboy teams with those sorts of riders.
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00:05:11.305But I think I lacked at that point maybe just a hand on the shoulder or some guidance.
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00:05:13.288You know you don't listen to your daddy when you're 15.
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00:05:15.026Like, who listens to their dad when they're 15?
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00:05:16.404And I wish I had of them now.
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00:05:18.755But he said, let me find my own way.
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00:05:25.595And unfortunately then it was like I didn't really see cycling as a career.
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00:05:30.307You know I was, I was good talent, natural talent, but you need so much more than that natural talent, doesn't?
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00:05:35.730You know it's not going to do it, but I remember talking to Chris Boardman who said, like this is the only thing I can do, you know.
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00:05:38.189So I'm just going to ride my bike and see what it takes me.
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00:05:41.139But for me there was no money in cycling then.
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00:05:50.454So I had to go and sort of break out and maybe build a career and make some money and cycling was not going to be, I don't think, for me the way I was going to do it.
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00:06:02.649So like I was good, but I think I lacked the mental structure and the vision and the kind of direction to be totally single-minded about, about doing that.
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00:06:05.103So that's where I think I've always kept cycling.
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00:06:16.353But my competitive cycling finished really at what I would call like an elite level when I was like 16, 17 and is there a pinnacle of that time that you think that was?
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00:06:24.833that was the moment for my early cycling career that I look back to and think that was that was the best bit to be honest, that was I loved the whole experience.
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00:06:25.788So there, honest, that was, I love the whole experience.
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00:06:26.771So there wasn't.
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00:06:30.721It was like the whole experience of the freedom of cycling, the discipline it taught me.
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00:06:39.552When I look back on it, I don't remember one thing I remember cycling as a framework for getting the best out of myself.
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00:06:42.000You know, understanding what you put is what you get out.
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00:06:48.651So, like it didn't, it's not something that stands out, it's more the whole thing cycling represented.
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00:06:58.466I mean, I do remember winning, like a midlands road race, championships, and it was a rotten, freezing cold day and it was the hardest race I think I'd ever done and to win that was very satisfying.
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00:07:01.341But when I look back I don't remember so much the victories.
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00:07:13.142I remember what cycling represented and how it set me up for the rest of my life ready I think it's fantastic that it was cycling with your dad that kind of initiated this, this thing.
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00:07:17.860I was at the track meeting some of your team a few weeks ago and and your dad was there.
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00:07:20.855Now, I know you weren't there because you'd got the the lurgy at the time, hadn't he?
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00:07:22.906But he's still there at the.
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00:07:26.646I don't know how old your dad is, but I fell in love with him immediately because he was wearing a forest hat.
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00:07:29.007But he's still cycling, isn't he?
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00:07:29.228Yeah?
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00:07:32.689I mean, he's 80 years old, he still races, still races.
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00:07:33.831Now he's part of the team.
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00:07:40.406He's got some goals this year to try and sort of qualify for the World Masters Championships in the over 80 category, green.
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00:07:45.214He's setting new goals for himself and you know, and he still trains probably every day.
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00:07:47.124Now you know, he's an inspirational.
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00:07:56.290He's a very humble guy, like he's a very humble guy, but he inspires me with just his consistency and his positivity and what cycling brings for him.
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00:08:00.170I can just see if I'm as fit and healthy as him at 80, I'll be pretty happy.
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00:08:02.302It's amazing.
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00:08:18.098So I know when we first met it was at a drinks party and you were telling me because you'd kind of you were still hobbling at the time, or you're telling me about this, our record, this, this world record for distance cycled in and for your, for your age group.
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00:08:31.509Yeah, tell us about what prep went into that, what kind of inspired you to go after that record and how did it play out um, not enough prep, as it turned out, but what inspired me to do it?
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00:08:35.282I think I had ticked off all the boxes.
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00:08:38.409Really, I've done everything in cycling that I wanted to achieve.
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00:08:42.350So, like, the three main goals for me were world time trial champion, world individual pursuit champion, world team pursuit champion they were the big goals.
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00:08:46.562And to set world time trial champion, world individual pursuit champion, world team pursuit champion they were the big goals.
00:08:46.562 -->
00:08:56.063And to set world records in those disciplines, as far as you can, which is what this thing with dan biggum, this project 50, was all about, which maybe we'll talk, talk about that bit later.
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00:09:10.349And so dan biggum and filipo gana for those who follow cycling one after the other, broke the world hour record for men's elite world, our record, and you'll see on my thing what shop you know, so we're watch up.
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00:09:29.466Our technical partner and sponsor of my cycling team and dan spoke to me and said look, we're going to put this our record week together, where we're going to take athletes from different amateurs and female and different age groups and we're going to hire the track in Grenchen in Switzerland which, without going to L2T, it's probably one of the fastest tracks in the world.
00:09:29.466 -->
00:09:31.947And how do you fancy having a track at the hour record?
00:09:31.947 -->
00:09:33.105You know you've got everything you need.
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00:09:37.807You're a brilliant time trialist, you're super aerodynamic, you've got fantastic track craft.
00:09:37.807 -->
00:09:41.841Why don't you come along and have a go be part of that thing?
00:09:41.841 -->
00:09:43.485So it came about.
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00:09:46.653From those two things, really one it it.
00:09:46.653 -->
00:09:51.611You know, anyone who knows anything about cycling will tell you it's the hardest record to break.
00:09:51.611 -->
00:09:56.653Mentally, physically, physiologically it's brutal and I knew that.
00:09:56.653 -->
00:09:59.140But I made the decision to get my.
00:09:59.140 -->
00:09:59.844All people know this.
00:09:59.865 -->
00:10:08.553But I made the decision to have a go at the hour record very late literally it was two weeks before and because of other things, things you know, I'm the CEO of the business and I've got other responsibilities.
00:10:08.553 -->
00:10:35.125I don't just ride my bike all the time, I'm not like a professional athlete in that respect and so I made the decision quite late, and one of the things that that meant is I didn't have time to do the heat adaptation work and also I didn't have time to ride on the velodrome with the uci sand back, like the foam blocks they put at the bottom of the track to stop you going too low, because obviously it's about the number of laps.
00:10:35.125 -->
00:10:43.244They recall the number of laps and add them up and how far you've gone in the hour, multiply by meters, and to stop you riding below the official black line, they put these big pads on the track.
00:10:43.244 -->
00:10:45.809It's the only event in the world they put those pads on the track.
00:10:45.809 -->
00:10:48.683Now there's a real significance to them and I'll explain that later.
00:10:49.446 -->
00:10:54.261But anyway, so that that I was in great physical shape, I was absolutely flying.
00:10:54.261 -->
00:11:00.341In fact I've just I'd been to glasgow and destroyed the opposition in the world time trial championships.
00:11:00.341 -->
00:11:15.066I was in great form, but I didn't do the heat adaptation work and I didn't do the the prep with this, with the big foam blocks on the track, at the bottom of the track, and and they were my own those two things were my own doing, unfortunately why?
00:11:15.407 -->
00:11:16.730why do you explain?
00:11:16.730 -->
00:11:20.123You explain this record as the hardest record to break.
00:11:20.123 -->
00:11:22.467Explain to us why that is.
00:11:22.467 -->
00:11:25.572I mean, I can imagine why it is, but why is that so hard?
00:11:25.812 -->
00:11:31.279I think, because these three things that combine to make it physiologically and mentally very difficult.
00:11:31.279 -->
00:11:33.789So the first one is to set the velodrome up.
00:11:33.789 -->
00:11:56.543To be quick, it's got to be hot, hotter than you normally racing and overheating is a massive issue and he has a huge impact on the ability to produce power and obviously as you build up the heat, so therefore the perceived effort, or the actual effort and the perceived effort, ramps up really quickly as you get hot and so it's very, very difficult physiologically to prepare the body for that.
00:11:56.543 -->
00:12:05.831It's just really hard and there's no other event where you have that, not in the normal world, you know, maybe if you're riding the Tour de France on hot days or something like that.
00:12:05.831 -->
00:12:07.547But anyway, so that's the first thing.
00:12:07.620 -->
00:12:15.679The second thing is you have to stay static in a single position, not move at all right, for 60 minutes.
00:12:15.679 -->
00:12:20.732I mean, you imagine just sitting in a chair for 60 minutes without moving at all your position.
00:12:20.732 -->
00:12:21.971Then you've got to produce.
00:12:21.971 -->
00:12:23.403You know 320 watts or whatever it is.
00:12:23.403 -->
00:12:24.370You know unride the track bike around the vel.
00:12:24.370 -->
00:12:24.539Got to produce.
00:12:24.539 -->
00:12:25.091You know 320 watts or whatever it is.
00:12:25.091 -->
00:12:27.827You know unride the track bike around the velodrome.
00:12:27.827 -->
00:12:29.653You know sticking to the black line.
00:12:29.653 -->
00:12:32.365So the fact it's a single position.
00:12:32.365 -->
00:12:35.941You get pain in parts of your body you didn't even know you had parts of the body you know.
00:12:35.941 -->
00:12:37.404So it's just brutal.
00:12:37.485 -->
00:12:42.966And then the second thing is is mentally it's it's just crushingly like boring at one level.
00:12:42.966 -->
00:12:48.163You just to and of course all the self-talk and the pain you feel and everything mentally.
00:12:48.163 -->
00:12:55.684And there's no one to race against at all, you just literally it's just a mental like sledgehammer just hitting you every lap.
00:12:55.684 -->
00:12:56.187You know.
00:12:56.187 -->
00:12:59.827And to break the record, certainly, the distance I wanted to do.
00:12:59.827 -->
00:13:06.729I had to ride right on the edge of my physiological capabilities to do the distance I wanted to do.
00:13:06.729 -->
00:13:17.869And so you know you've got to manage it perfectly because if you go over in the first 20 minutes you just die a thousand deaths and if you go under you can't pick it up in the second half.
00:13:17.869 -->
00:13:23.052So the judging it's like a very finely balanced sort of equation.
00:13:23.052 -->
00:13:31.460If you overstep it or you overheat or whatever, or you don't hold the position and then when things go wrong they snowball incredibly quickly.
00:13:31.460 -->
00:13:35.571So yeah, I hope that just gives a bit of insight to why it's so blooming hard.
00:13:36.240 -->
00:13:41.370Yeah, you've painted a picture of maybe not so much fun, but a lot of consistency.
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00:13:54.707Yeah, no, it sounds like, and also I think you know we've spoken to so many different people that are slightly older in their sport and actually learning this consistency and this endurance, so we'll dive into that a little bit more.
00:13:54.707 -->
00:13:56.326So what happened?
00:13:56.326 -->
00:13:58.807You talked about the sandbags and things.
00:13:58.807 -->
00:13:59.924What happened in that race?
00:14:00.519 -->
00:14:01.081Yeah.
00:14:01.081 -->
00:14:09.530So we had a target and I think all the numbers said I could beat Jens Voigt's record, which is 51.1 kilometers or something like that.
00:14:09.530 -->
00:14:12.566So that was the target, so I could produce the power.
00:14:12.566 -->
00:14:15.929I had the CDA, which is your aerodynamic drag, where it needed to be.
00:14:15.929 -->
00:14:39.548I'd got the track craft in practice on the Derby Velodrome, just sort of rocked up one night with a member of my team who does a lot of the tech stuff with us, I did 49.6 kilometers, 49.5 kilometers, right, which is, which is about 30 miles, and if anybody, you know, stick your head out a window when your car's doing 30 miles an hour, you know you'll see how quick that is, like it's rapid.
00:14:39.548 -->
00:14:41.740And so we were quite confident, yeah, we could do that.
00:14:41.740 -->
00:14:42.984The track's going to be faster.
00:14:42.984 -->
00:14:45.994You know I'll be in a bit of shape, I'll be tapered and all this sort of stuff.
00:14:46.274 -->
00:14:49.062But in the back of my mind I knew I'd not done the heat adaptation.
00:14:49.062 -->
00:14:58.250But what I didn't factor in was the fact that we haven't done the track practice with the sandbag, or sandbag, you know, the foam blocks down on the track anyway.
00:14:58.250 -->
00:15:02.907So we go off to grenchen, we do a few runs, everything's.
00:15:02.907 -->
00:15:19.873You know I was going to ride at something like just sub-18 second laps for the first half and then come down into 17-somethings for the second half, which would give me 51.2 kilometres, and we were pretty confident when I started and I tried to settle into my aerodynamic position which is crucial, by the way.
00:15:19.873 -->
00:15:31.836Right, if your head is two inches higher than it is supposed to be, you know, suddenly your CDA goes from 0.158 to 0.179 and you've got to find 20 or 30 watts more.
00:15:31.836 -->
00:15:33.866There's problem number one, right?
00:15:33.866 -->
00:15:39.811So I set off the sandbags are freaking me out because I'm worried about hitting them and so I can't relax.
00:15:39.811 -->
00:16:03.645I'm not riding as low on the track as I should be on the black line and I'm tense because I'm concerned about clipping a sandbag and crashing and therefore saying my head comes up and after about 10 minutes I know this is the thing about the self-talk I know what's going on in my head and I know from I'm so in tune with how 320 watts feels compared to 295 watts, which is probably what we needed to do if everything was working well.
00:16:04.528 -->
00:16:05.871I just knew I was overcooked.
00:16:05.871 -->
00:16:07.927I knew I was having to overdo it, right?
00:16:07.927 -->
00:16:11.528So picture this eight minutes into a 60-minute record.
00:16:11.528 -->
00:16:19.186I knew I was having to overdo it and then, of course, knowing this record, like I do, I know exactly what's coming, which is at 30 minutes.
00:16:19.186 -->
00:16:19.788You're going to be cooked.
00:16:19.788 -->
00:16:21.961So psychologically that's quite a hole to be in.
00:16:21.961 -->
00:16:38.475But I stuck with it because I'm a very determined character, incredibly determined, so much so that I literally rode myself into the ground, literally, and so at halfway I was just ahead of the record, which I think stood at 49.45 kilometres or something.
00:16:38.475 -->
00:16:44.767Now, that was done at altitude, so you're not comparing apples with apples.
00:16:44.787 -->
00:16:50.025But anyway, as I got to sort of 30 minutes, I had this really interesting conversation with myself and I can tell you it's actually what it went like.
00:16:50.025 -->
00:16:51.647I can remember it like it was yesterday.
00:16:51.647 -->
00:16:55.148This conversation went like this Right, richard, this has not gone well.
00:16:55.148 -->
00:16:57.226You're having to do 20 or 30 watts more.
00:16:57.226 -->
00:17:01.341You've overheated, because you're not supposed to overheat, really until 10 minutes to go.
00:17:01.341 -->
00:17:04.644Then you hang on, but because you've had to go harder than you thought, you've overheated.
00:17:04.644 -->
00:17:05.586So you overheated.
00:17:05.586 -->
00:17:07.067You can't keep going at this pace.
00:17:07.067 -->
00:17:10.652You're only just on world record pace now, so you're not going to do it.
00:17:10.652 -->
00:17:11.573So what are you going to do?
00:17:11.573 -->
00:17:14.395Should we just pack it in Sit down.
00:17:14.395 -->
00:17:16.665It's not my day today.
00:17:16.686 -->
00:17:17.694I remember that conversation.
00:17:17.694 -->
00:17:30.912Then I had another conversation which said hang hang on, think of all the people who've invested in you my wife, my son, my family, my parents, the sponsors, dan, my coach, all these people here.
00:17:30.912 -->
00:17:32.477You know, all my friends.
00:17:32.477 -->
00:17:34.423I had some friends who'd come to watch me on the track.
00:17:34.423 -->
00:17:44.140Like all these people who've supported me, like you're probably never going to get a chance to come back and do this again, so it's time to go to a place you probably have never been.
00:17:44.140 -->
00:17:44.941Physiologically.
00:17:44.941 -->
00:17:46.260What are you going to do?
00:17:46.260 -->
00:17:49.363And that conversation took about two laps of the track.
00:17:49.363 -->
00:17:54.685So that's probably what just over 30 seconds, maybe 37, 38, 36, 37 seconds.
00:17:54.965 -->
00:18:00.048So I then made a decision to just go for it and just see what happened.
00:18:00.048 -->
00:18:07.051And when I look back in retrospect, I had to ride at 30 miles an hour for 30 minutes when I was completely spent.
00:18:07.051 -->
00:18:09.353I had nothing left in the tanker halfway.
00:18:09.353 -->
00:18:19.077I was in a very bad place, and so I then proceeded to endure the worst 29 and a half minutes of my life, physically and mentally.
00:18:19.077 -->
00:18:24.584It was horrendous and I'd never been in a world of pain like it.
00:18:24.584 -->
00:18:27.192And then with after four, 59 minutes and 40.
00:18:27.192 -->
00:18:39.946Four seconds, I think, those dreaded foam blocks came to bite me because I was I just literally I was so exhausted as I came out of turn three I clipped one of the things and crashed.
00:18:40.147 -->
00:18:41.480So I crashed at 30 miles an hour.
00:18:41.520 -->
00:18:45.176I was on the track, I was kind of a little bit up the banking because I came out.
00:18:45.237 -->
00:18:55.903So the bloke who operated on me afterwards said what happened to you is equivalent to being in Lycra, standing on the top of a car at 30 miles an hour, and then you're throwing yourself onto the pavement.
00:18:55.903 -->
00:19:12.119So that's why, but not only that, but all the physiological stress that I'd gone through in the hour record left me in a bad way anyway, and so I hit the ground really hard, and because I was in this position like this you know the aerodynamic position I didn't have time to brace my forward or anything.
00:19:12.119 -->
00:19:21.188So my left shoulder took the impact on the ground and smashed it to pieces, and the good news was, as I crashed, I'd just gone through the record distance.
00:19:21.188 -->
00:19:28.923The bad news was, in order to claim the record, you have to get back on your bike and do another lap, and so I had to get back on and do another lap.
00:19:28.923 -->
00:19:34.779And so I did another lap and then just collapsed into a heap on the floor and then the rest was.
00:19:34.779 -->
00:19:37.960I don't remember too much, but I did break a record.
00:19:40.439 -->
00:19:44.885And your shoulder and lots of bones and stuff and whatever.
00:19:44.885 -->
00:19:48.525But anyway, that's as brief as I can tell that story really.
00:19:49.375 -->
00:19:59.404I think it sounds hideous, like there's a reason why we all opt for the 20 minute version of the ftp test when it comes, when that comes around, because anything.
00:19:59.404 -->
00:20:00.166And that's hideous.
00:20:00.166 -->
00:20:03.039Yeah, so it's like an hour ftp test.
00:20:03.039 -->
00:20:06.487In that it's just awful but absolutely incredible.
00:20:06.487 -->
00:20:12.204So I think you've explained it and it's all in all the detail that that we can ask you to.
00:20:12.204 -->
00:20:23.079It just sounds like I suppose the question that comes to mind is when you really had to dig deep, yeah, what did you do mentally to get you through that?
00:20:23.079 -->
00:20:25.285That last kind of probably, I would guess.
00:20:25.285 -->
00:20:26.936Actually it's the last 10 minutes.
00:20:26.936 -->
00:20:31.920I mean, I know you said it was the last half an hour, but the last 10 minutes when it's, you know, what did you do mentally to get through that?
00:20:33.282 -->
00:20:35.688I think there were two things happening actually.
00:20:35.688 -->
00:20:40.598I think I was no longer doing it for me.
00:20:40.598 -->
00:20:57.482I think I was doing it to represent all the people in my life who have helped me, supported me, been there for me, and therefore I was driven by another energy which wasn't mine, and I definitely felt that it was definitely something going on there.
00:20:57.775 -->
00:21:01.845So it's the power of why isn't it, as opposed to which we talk about quite a bit on the podcast actually?
00:21:01.845 -->
00:21:03.741But yeah, it's when you know your why.
00:21:05.036 -->
00:21:21.472Yeah, and it's why several levels like you're going down into these levels of you know, and why did I get back into cycling and what happened to my wife and what was going on there, like you know that that's that end of the energy that came from that, which maybe we'll talk about, um, if we get a chance.
00:21:21.472 -->
00:21:29.256You know, so much of it was was from the other people around that had helped me and that I was sort of channeling that energy.
00:21:29.256 -->
00:21:30.637If you like, that was one.
00:21:30.637 -->
00:21:45.936And the second thing is is that I know, because I it's part of my dna, that doing really hard things is part of growing as a human being and and finding things that hard doesn't happen to you very often, right, so it's almost like a gift.
00:21:45.936 -->
00:21:49.730It's like a gift sounds weird, like it's a gift, like like not a gift, but it's.
00:21:49.730 -->
00:21:57.241It was an opportunity to just see right, richard, well, it's time to take your own medicine here, fella, because you're advised.
00:21:57.241 -->
00:21:58.325You always advise people.
00:21:58.325 -->
00:21:59.478Do hard things, you know.
00:21:59.478 -->
00:22:00.742Do the bleep, bleep.
00:22:00.742 -->
00:22:01.346That sucks.
00:22:01.346 -->
00:22:01.646You know.
00:22:01.646 -->
00:22:02.530That's where the edge is.
00:22:02.530 -->
00:22:04.458The edge is in doing the really hard things.
00:22:04.458 -->
00:22:10.618Well, this is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, so now's the time to step up and take your own medicine.
00:22:10.659 -->
00:22:12.422So so I think there were two things happening.
00:22:12.422 -->
00:22:17.349One, there's this energy that was fed from another source, which wasn't me, definitely wasn't me.
00:22:17.349 -->
00:22:21.385I was carried along by other people's energy, definitely.
00:22:21.385 -->
00:22:31.983And then there was that do hard things mantra, which you know my business is sort of also into the neuroscience of all of this and the anterior mid singular cortex thing.
00:22:31.983 -->
00:22:44.740You know that when you do really hard things it develops that part of the brain and that part of the brain is incredibly important for mental health and longevity and, and you know, fighting off dementia and all those other things you know.
00:22:44.740 -->
00:22:46.006So that all this stuff is.
00:22:46.006 -->
00:22:56.826I wouldn't say I was as cogent enough to think it through in that level, but all my work and all the stuff I've done in my business and in sport sort of led me to that reflection.
00:22:56.826 -->
00:22:59.836And now's the time to take your own medicine.
00:22:59.836 -->
00:23:01.403Brilliant brilliant.
00:23:01.763 -->
00:23:06.179I know that you've you're seven times world champion at different in different forms of racing.
00:23:06.179 -->
00:23:12.403We haven't got time to talk about all seven, but which one of those stands out for you most and why?
00:23:14.428 -->
00:23:19.102um, I mean, the first one I'd successfully won was it was a team event, so that's a bit different.
00:23:19.102 -->
00:23:28.634But if you look at the first one, I individual world championship I won, where I also set a new world record, a c-level world record, in fact it was a.
00:23:28.634 -->
00:23:29.675Yeah, in fact it was an.
00:23:29.675 -->
00:23:31.917It was an all altitude and sea level world record.
00:23:31.917 -->
00:23:38.823It was in Los Angeles and the first time you succeed and it was a weird one.
00:23:38.823 -->
00:23:44.906It was after COVID, so it was the first time sort of a world championship was run after all the shenanigans that happened with COVID.
00:23:44.906 -->
00:23:52.673But you know, the Australian national champion was there, the New Zealand, all the big nations, the US world record holder, and he was their US champion, you know.
00:23:52.673 -->
00:24:02.288So everybody was there and you know, when you pull on the stripy jersey and get the medal for the first time, that's special, you know, because there's never a.
00:24:02.288 -->
00:24:05.577You know there's never a second time to be the first time, if you know what I mean.
00:24:05.577 -->
00:24:08.826So I suppose that's the one, that that that stands out.
00:24:08.925 -->
00:24:30.087But I had a very weird experience if I've got a minute to maybe share that when I, when I actually won, you know, you go on the podium and the trumpets go and the national anthem gets played and you put the jersey on and you put the medal around your neck and about 15 seconds later everyone walks away and that's it, and and you sort of you know it hit me then that why do I do this?
00:24:30.395 -->
00:24:44.691You don't do it for that reason moment, you know you don't do it for the moment of podium and stripy jersey and whatever, because as I walk down off the podium, the overriding thought was oh, I can't wait to get working on next years.
00:24:44.691 -->
00:25:02.376You know and you realize that the process of preparing and with your team, and the discipline and the consistency and the curiosity to see can I get better, is what drives you, not so much the jersey or the medal, because it's it's so fleeting, like it literally.
00:25:02.376 -->
00:25:07.279It really shocked me, you know, because, like, when you're in a team, you talk to your teammates afterwards it's all good.
00:25:07.279 -->
00:25:08.884You get a bit more of a buzz when you're on your own.
00:25:08.884 -->
00:25:11.097You're up there and then it's gone, that's it, everyone's walked off.
00:25:11.097 -->
00:25:23.866So it was a really it was a fantastic experience, but I realized the real value and joy was in all the work that went into it, not the actual moment.
00:25:23.866 -->
00:25:25.550It happened, does that?
00:25:25.932 -->
00:25:36.205make sense, complete sense, I think, um, again, we've probably experienced not not to the world championship level, but you know experience those times where you're on the podium, and then I absolutely understand what you mean.
00:25:36.205 -->
00:25:38.541It's kind of gone, it's finished, isn't it?
00:25:38.541 -->
00:25:39.464It's on to the next thing.
00:25:39.464 -->
00:25:58.826So, yeah, completely understand, and really interesting that you were able to reflect on that and think, actually, this is about the process and I'm looking forward to the next process, which leads me into a question actually, how have you managed to compete as an athlete at such a high level and work full-time as a professional?
00:25:58.826 -->
00:26:06.385How have you managed to do that number one and then be part of this cycling team that you're part of?
00:26:06.385 -->
00:26:08.542How does that work?
00:26:10.278 -->
00:26:13.258I mean, this is the question, right, it's a great question.
00:26:13.258 -->
00:26:24.346It's the question I get asked, not just about me, but about other people I'm working with or advising, or other competitors, athletes, or whatever it is, and I can only answer from what works for me.
00:26:24.346 -->
00:26:27.438So it's a bit of a sort of caveat that this works for me.
00:26:27.438 -->
00:26:29.462So there's a few themes here.
00:26:29.462 -->
00:26:34.212The first one is I'm incredibly efficient, right.
00:26:34.212 -->
00:26:36.000So what do I mean by that?
00:26:36.000 -->
00:26:45.018I spend almost no time procrastinating about anything, because I'm super clear about who I am, what I'm doing and where I'm going.
00:26:45.018 -->
00:26:53.685Super clear, not only clear with me, but I'm also clear with people around me, whether it's my clients, my teammates, my wife, my coach.
00:26:53.685 -->
00:26:58.987So I'm really really clear about how these pieces of the jigsaw fit together.
00:26:58.987 -->
00:27:01.483And then I'm incredibly disciplined and consistent.
00:27:01.483 -->
00:27:09.088But the thing that surprises me most is the importance of communicating that stuff to people around you.
00:27:09.088 -->
00:27:12.675And then what happens is they get involved, they support you.
00:27:12.675 -->
00:27:14.778And then what happens is they get involved, they support you, they stop they.
00:27:14.778 -->
00:27:18.866So you build up this incredible momentum, if you like.
00:27:18.866 -->
00:27:25.601And, funnily enough, choice is really inherently inefficient, right.
00:27:25.601 -->
00:27:28.988So I don't give myself a choice Like I'll train every day.
00:27:28.988 -->
00:27:30.980I work on my mental health every day.
00:27:30.980 -->
00:27:32.265I work on O10's business every day.
00:27:32.265 -->
00:27:33.008I work on my mental health every day.
00:27:33.008 -->
00:27:34.050I work on O-10's business every day.
00:27:34.050 -->
00:27:38.905And I work on my relationships that matter to me every day my wife, my son, my friends, etc.
00:27:38.905 -->
00:27:39.267Etc.
00:27:39.267 -->
00:27:42.259And sort of everyone knows that.
00:27:42.380 -->
00:27:51.767And so that philosophy, if you like, you know, you sort of hear David Goggins say you know how much time to spend on your phone or how much time to spend if he got rid of that, of that, you know you could be world.
00:27:51.767 -->
00:27:53.570You know, and you hear these like sound bites.
00:27:53.570 -->
00:27:56.636But I'm not, I'm not really a sound bite sort of person I'm.
00:27:56.636 -->
00:28:00.567I'm, I'm a doer, I'm a grafter, I'm a hard worker, like I always have been.
00:28:00.567 -->
00:28:08.940And and then there's another word which my son uses to describe me and and we were talking about like if you had a word to put on your tombstone, you know, here lies richardor.
00:28:08.940 -->
00:28:15.930He said relentless is the word that would go on your tombstone.
00:28:15.930 -->
00:28:24.159Like, you are relentless, but not in a selfish sort of, and this is really interesting about like, just the elite athlete.
00:28:24.740 -->
00:28:37.742And how many elite athletes I've seen in the past who, because they are necessarily this sort of relentless on one thing, when it's all over, they become very unbalanced or they struggle or it's really difficult.
00:28:37.742 -->
00:28:48.640And this is why my background, this thing, the equation, this book I've written is about, because there's this argument between oh, you can't be an elite performer, like I've heard that so many times.
00:28:48.640 -->
00:28:50.144No, you can't do it, it's not possible.
00:28:50.144 -->
00:28:54.624I'm telling you, it is because I am right Now.
00:28:54.924 -->
00:28:55.385Is it easy?
00:28:55.385 -->
00:28:57.219Nope, but it's not complex.
00:28:57.219 -->
00:29:00.278I don't think it's like one of these things.
00:29:00.278 -->
00:29:22.663It's simple but not easy, and I've tried to distill that in my book, the Equation, which doesn't have all the answers, but it certainly has all the things I've discovered and learned through my life to be able to be an active CEO, be an elite athlete, be a world champion, be a good husband, be a good dad, be a good teammate, meet amazing people like you and talk about stuff like this.
00:29:22.663 -->
00:29:28.301So that's how my jigsaw pieces are put together and I am relentless and it's something I'll do.
00:29:28.301 -->
00:29:30.257I'll never retire, it's something I'll do.
00:29:30.257 -->
00:29:33.364This jigsaw piece life.
00:29:33.483 -->
00:29:39.246Until you know I'm pushing up I think this is brilliant and I think this is a mistake that we hear quite a lot.
00:29:39.246 -->
00:29:45.438I think you rightly say there'll be people that say, if you're going to be, you know, world class at this, you have to have this single focus.
00:29:45.438 -->
00:29:51.903And the mistake I often see people making is they only set goals in that one area of their life and, yes, guess what?
00:29:51.903 -->
00:30:03.027They do that, but all the rest of their life falls to bits, whether it's their business, whether it's relationships, whether their mental health, because they only set goals in one area, and I love the fact that you're talking about.
00:30:03.027 -->
00:30:13.486Actually, it's perfectly achievable to have success in all of these different areas of your life and be world class at them if you go about them with, with balance.
00:30:14.086 -->
00:30:17.682One of the things that you listening to you talk got me thinking.
00:30:17.682 -->
00:30:26.137You know you started this conversation by saying you were naturally your physical, your physiology was good for cycling, and that you've got a good engine.
00:30:26.137 -->
00:30:28.688You could clearly cycle well from right from a young age.
00:30:28.688 -->
00:30:31.999But then you've also talked about the fact that you're relentless.
00:30:31.999 -->
00:30:42.605So which do you think is more important the relentless gene that makes you just keep getting firing, determined, or the physiology that you were born with?
00:30:44.255 -->
00:30:45.799I don't think relentlessness is genetic.
00:30:45.799 -->
00:30:51.939By the way, just a sidebar, you know, I heard Djokovic interviewed by a guy and he said one of your gifts is your mental toughness.
00:30:51.939 -->
00:30:53.701And Djokovic says no, no, no, no, that's not a gift.
00:30:53.701 -->
00:31:04.758That is worked at deliberately, intentionally, every day, right, and so the relentlessness is not genetic.
00:31:04.758 -->
00:31:16.523The relentlessness is a decision I made a while ago when my life was off the rails a bit and the people around me deserved better, and I made a decision at that point, probably about 20 years ago, that I need to work harder and I need to be better.
00:31:16.523 -->
00:31:21.922And in some ways, the reason maybe I didn't continue with cycling is that I had not made that decision.
00:31:21.922 -->
00:31:27.183Chris Forbin made that decision to just be relentless and ride his bike and he became Olympic champion and et cetera, et cetera.
00:31:27.183 -->
00:31:32.015So I think that in itself is point one, I think in answer to your question.
00:31:32.015 -->
00:31:49.432I think that in itself is point one, I think in answer to your question and this issue of like genetic or worked out is a fascinating one and I'm not sure I know the answer I think the way I would process it is like my dad used to say if you put your mind to it, you can achieve anything.
00:31:49.432 -->
00:31:52.499That was one of the things he said, and I believe that's true within reason, right?
00:31:52.499 -->
00:31:52.830So I could put my mind to saying can achieve anything.
00:31:52.830 -->
00:31:55.303That was one of the things he said, and I believe that's true within reason, right?
00:31:55.303 -->
00:31:57.027So I could put my mind to saying do you know what?
00:31:57.027 -->
00:31:57.307I'd like?
00:31:57.307 -->
00:32:01.542To go to the top of a 20-story building and fly under my own power, what?
00:32:01.542 -->
00:32:05.357No matter how good my arms are, and it's not going to happen, right?
00:32:05.357 -->
00:32:11.720So there's a limit, like there's a limit to how much practice and discipline and relentlessness can get you.
00:32:11.720 -->
00:32:12.662So there's you.
00:32:12.662 -->
00:32:19.281So it's like a gate that you go through that says, genetically, I've got this stuff in my locker and I get into the field.
00:32:21.018 -->
00:32:24.847Then for me, it's all about mindset, consistency, relentlessness.
00:32:24.847 -->
00:32:30.642Tiger Woods hit 100,000 golf shots by the time he was 50, or whatever the statistic is.
00:32:30.642 -->
00:32:35.479So I'm not sure I don't know if I've exactly answered your question.
00:32:35.479 -->
00:32:39.267That's my sort of thought, my, my thoughts on it.
00:32:39.267 -->
00:32:49.353You know I, you know bluntly, if I had this level of relentlessness but I didn't have you know, six and a half liter volume lungs or whatever they are, you know, would I be as good on the bike?
00:32:49.353 -->
00:32:54.467No, but maybe I'd work even harder and maybe I'd do some other cross sort of training thing and I'd be more in the gym.
00:32:56.096 -->
00:33:00.924It's all the pieces of the puzzle, isn't it Like all of these different areas, sort of you know, coming together.
00:33:00.924 -->
00:33:07.154I think it's an interesting question, isn't it, how you develop that like toughness and relentlessness.
00:33:07.720 -->
00:33:19.584Actually back to Charlie's observation about setting goals in different areas, because this is something I feel very strongly about, right, which is this idea of integration.
00:33:19.584 -->
00:33:31.084This separation I've got a goal here, I've got a goal there, I've got a goal here, I've got a goal there again in my experience takes a lot of energy and can be quite inefficient and can be quite conflicting.
00:33:31.084 -->
00:33:34.276Right, that's not how I operate my life.
00:33:34.276 -->
00:33:36.779I operate my life as integral.
00:33:36.779 -->
00:33:46.506So my sport helps me in my work, right, my relentlessness and my determination helps me as a dad, helps me as a team mate, helps me as a ceo.
00:33:46.767 -->
00:33:54.257All the equation is, because these are different components, that when you add them together one times, one times one equals more than the.
00:33:54.257 -->
00:33:55.601You know it's like that, the old thing.
00:33:55.601 -->
00:33:58.007You know it's more than the sum of its parts.
00:33:58.007 -->
00:34:03.905But if you look at it integrally, it's an integrated life, right?
00:34:03.905 -->
00:34:12.442And I think your question claire about how am I able to do it I didn't answer it fully because I've only just bought that interlates like that.
00:34:12.442 -->
00:34:17.407Integration, right, is the extra magic source.
00:34:17.407 -->
00:34:42.463Find things like a venn diagram, find things that that, when you put them over each other, there's a bit in the middle which makes me feel like I'm getting somewhere close to the potential I was given as a human being it's really interesting with um integrating goals, I can, I can see how actually you can meet certain goals by doing various different things as well.
00:34:43.045 -->
00:34:51.704Actually, it brings me on to a question around the small one percent, that compound effect, or those marginal gains that we know so well in in sport.
00:34:51.704 -->
00:35:03.199How how do you you know, coach and teach those, those marginal gains within businesses like your own business, but also with with teams and businesses that you work with?
00:35:03.701 -->
00:35:04.322this is like.
00:35:04.322 -->
00:35:07.458This links to another thing in in in charlie's note about ai.
00:35:07.458 -->
00:35:12.530Right, because if everybody's got access to the same data through ai, where does that leave marginal gains?
00:35:12.530 -->
00:35:12.778Right, because everybody can.
00:35:12.778 -->
00:35:13.041Everybody's got access to the same data through AI.
00:35:13.041 -->
00:35:13.688Where does that leave marginal gains?
00:35:13.688 -->
00:35:17.893Right, because everybody's got access to all the data.
00:35:18.693 -->
00:35:20.556So marginal gains are not where it's at.
00:35:20.556 -->
00:35:22.420Where it's at is paradigm shifts.
00:35:22.420 -->
00:35:30.306Paradigm shifts come from human beings collective intelligence, creativity, looking at problems differently.
00:35:30.306 -->
00:35:36.023Like Einstein said, you can't solve complex problems from the perspective that created the problem, right?
00:35:36.023 -->
00:35:46.844So my business was somewhat in the business of marginal gains, but it's always been in the business of sense-making from a human paradigm.
00:35:46.974 -->
00:35:52.525How do you make sense of the system when everyone's been thinking about it for 25 years?
00:35:52.525 -->
00:35:53.427Right?
00:35:53.427 -->
00:35:56.262Ai just takes that process to the next level.
00:35:56.262 -->
00:35:58.282So how can you make sense of the system?
00:35:58.282 -->
00:36:03.190How can you express it, feel it, experience it and share it?
00:36:03.190 -->
00:36:04.092At the human level?
00:36:04.092 -->
00:36:12.170That can start to bubble up completely different ways of looking at solving a problem a business problem, a leadership problem, an innovation problem.
00:36:12.170 -->
00:36:15.581So, in some ways, same data.
00:36:15.581 -->
00:36:17.927Where's your competitive edge coming from?
00:36:17.927 -->
00:36:49.056And my business in the last two or three years, has started leaning much more into the question of what is the experience that you create for each other, for your clients, that feels different, that leads to more creativity, more productivity, higher, more success, higher, you know, delving deeper into the human potential, because that, I think it's just my view is one, it's my view.
00:36:49.097 -->
00:37:15.235Two, I've got some quite good empirical evidence from the market actually, that's telling me this as well, that the really forward-thinking leaders are starting to ask the same question so is that your experience and what you have seen is is more this kind of human inner aspect that has more of this edge, or these one percent, or these gains, and perhaps technology ai has well, it's yes and isn't it?
00:37:15.255 -->
00:37:16.559it's both, it's both out.
00:37:16.559 -->
00:37:20.297So you've got the marginal gains, the data analysis.
00:37:20.297 -->
00:37:26.619You know, if you look at what timo telebais does, you know we set up the team to be the fastest master cycling team in the world.
00:37:26.619 -->
00:37:31.940The inspiration came from working with dan biggum and the who what bite team, and you know.
00:37:31.940 -->
00:37:35.755So we sort of said well, let's be the equivalent of what they're doing.
00:37:35.996 -->
00:37:37.298Dan's a close friend of mine.
00:37:37.298 -->
00:37:38.460He wrote the forward to my book.
00:37:38.460 -->
00:37:39.684You know I went to the olympic.
00:37:39.684 -->
00:37:40.204I saw him.
00:37:40.204 -->
00:37:41.628You know, get his olympic silver.
00:37:41.628 -->
00:37:42.617He should have got a gold.
00:37:42.717 -->
00:37:45.023But you know there's all sorts of issues why he didn't.
00:37:45.023 -->
00:37:50.931You know, crashing into a japanese sprinter in warm up at 80 kilometers an hour, you know in.
00:37:50.931 -->
00:37:53.438You know anyway, the people don't even know about that's another story.
00:37:53.438 -->
00:37:56.744You know my team is fastidious about data.
00:37:56.744 -->
00:37:58.628We know everyone's CDA.
00:37:58.628 -->
00:38:00.260We know everyone's power output.
00:38:00.260 -->
00:38:07.403Tomorrow we're testing different wheels and different tie combinations to see if we can find, you know, two or three watts.
00:38:07.403 -->
00:38:09.802We could spend three hours on the velodrome doing that because we can.
00:38:09.974 -->
00:38:20.202But what I think sets us apart is that we are super curious about this inner edge, the mental side of it.
00:38:22.137 -->
00:38:31.483But it's like we've got some very cool tools and processes and methodologies as a business that drop into some of the things we do as a team.
00:38:31.784 -->
00:38:56.045I mean, I was looking off this if people haven't heard of Otto Schama, so Professor Otto Schama runs something called the Presencing Institute out at MIT and effectively what Otto's doing is saying how can we harness a much deeper understanding of the human condition in a world where AI is going to make all the data marginal gain decisions for us?
00:38:56.045 -->
00:38:58.277I've paraphrased right all the data marginal gain decisions for us.
00:38:58.277 -->
00:38:58.739I've paraphrased right.
00:38:58.739 -->
00:39:06.469But that's effectively what Professor Sharma looks at and he's been one of the biggest inspirations in my career.
00:39:06.469 -->
00:39:18.889I've been lucky enough to work with him and the guys at MIT and the Presidency Institute and you know, realize that in a world of data analytics gone on steroids, you know two things.
00:39:18.889 -->
00:39:24.242One, I don't want to lose the fact that being human is very important and quite a nice thing.
00:39:24.242 -->
00:39:35.923But also you realize those who can go deeper into that side of it have a better chance of finding competitive advantage, because it's going to be very difficult to get it from AI.
00:39:37.594 -->
00:39:38.336I completely agree.
00:39:38.336 -->
00:39:55.722I think AI is an opportunity to humanize what humans do best, which is creativity, leadership and empathy, and it's an opportunity to digitalize the data and the repetitive and the mundane and the dangerous, isn't it?
00:39:55.722 -->
00:40:06.454So it's going to create this polarization of where, and I think that the strategic thinking is an interesting point, because I think that's going to be both actually so.
00:40:06.454 -->
00:40:26.867For example, there's a famous story which I'll sort of paraphrase now, but where AI first beat a human at the leading human at Go, which was Lisa Dahl doll, and everyone said AI will never beat a leading human at go because it's just way more complicated, and it was move 37.
00:40:26.867 -->
00:40:32.096When they did move 37 in one of the games and the AI did move 37, everyone thought there's a bug in the system.
00:40:32.096 -->
00:40:32.596That's weird.
00:40:32.596 -->
00:40:34.619It should not play that move.
00:40:34.619 -->
00:40:35.601It's's totally wrong.
00:40:36.623 -->
00:40:46.445And in 2000 years of humans playing Go, they hadn't unlocked this entirely different strategy that DeepMind had created within three days of playing Go.
00:40:46.445 -->
00:41:01.757And so I think there's going to be this interaction between humans and AI and, in fact, if you take the world's best AI and play the world's best at chess and you play the best human at chess, the ai wins.
00:41:01.757 -->
00:41:07.809But pair a human with the ai and it will beat the ai as well.
00:41:07.809 -->
00:41:09.661So I think that that's where the opportunities are.
00:41:09.661 -->
00:41:12.476I think that's strategic thinking between both is going to be.
00:41:12.476 -->
00:41:14.059It's going to be really interesting.
00:41:14.059 -->
00:41:19.708I'd love to segue into kind of longevity in sport and business.
00:41:19.708 -->
00:41:25.186So you've obviously achieved phenomenal things as an elite level in your 50s.
00:41:25.186 -->
00:41:33.181What has allowed you to stay competitive physically into your 50s?
00:41:33.181 -->
00:41:43.911But also how do you think that translates to the business world again in terms of how you can kind of pursue a long and purposeful career?
00:41:45.755 -->
00:41:46.114No, that's the idea.
00:41:46.114 -->
00:42:05.945I think certainly the integration point, you know, of seeing the overlap between the hard work you put in to your sport, also adds value to your business and also adds value to the other things that really matter Family relationships, friends, teammates, et cetera, et cetera.
00:42:05.945 -->
00:42:09.184So that's still a foundational piece of this, I think.
00:42:09.184 -->
00:42:18.346The second thing is I don't see any of the things I'm working on having an end, so I don't think I'm going to retire at this point or I'm going to stop doing this.
00:42:18.346 -->
00:42:21.563So I was listening to another podcast.
00:42:21.563 -->
00:42:22.579I can't remember who said it.
00:42:22.579 -->
00:42:28.744It may have even been the comedian Jimmy Carr who said this, but it stopped me in my tracks, which doesn't happen very often.
00:42:28.744 -->
00:42:30.701He said oh, you hear this phrase now.
00:42:30.701 -->
00:42:33.958Life is a journey, not a destination, right?
00:42:33.958 -->
00:42:35.199So you hear this phrase all the time.
00:42:35.199 -->
00:42:38.384But he went on then to say I don't think that's where it's at.
00:42:38.384 -->
00:42:44.331Where it's at is life is neither a journey or a destination.
00:42:44.331 -->
00:42:49.639It's about the person you become on the way right.
00:42:49.639 -->
00:43:00.097And so key to my this is just me key to my success and continued success and longevity is that every day I wake up I'm excited about the person I can become that day.
00:43:00.097 -->
00:43:01.519I never get bored of it.
00:43:01.519 -->
00:43:05.275I'm like a kid, like at one level, like it's pathetic in some ways.
00:43:05.275 -->
00:43:11.960Like I wake up and I'm 56 and I'm like whoa, like yes, and like I get to run the bike, I get to speak to amazing clients.
00:43:11.960 -->
00:43:28.603So there's a childlike quality that comes out of the curiosity of the person you can become when you lean into the integration between work and sport and family and relationships and energy, and and so you can't help but feel young again, like it's just.
00:43:28.603 -->
00:43:29.887It's just how I feel.
00:43:29.887 -->
00:43:35.942I feel like I'm even more curious than I did when I was maybe 17 or 18.
00:43:35.942 -->
00:43:44.465So this, having a path you're on that's not got an end means you can be relentlessly curious and don't also take yourself too seriously.
00:43:44.465 -->
00:43:45.739You know, have fun doing it.
00:43:46.737 -->
00:43:57.885And then the other thing you have to do when you get a bit older is you do have to realise and the crash was a massive wake-up call for me here right, because you have to realise that you have to take more rests.
00:43:57.885 -->
00:44:03.103You need a bit more downtime, right, intentional downtime.
00:44:03.103 -->
00:44:12.668You know, and and manage your energy really carefully and and I noticed that when I went out, that big crash in the hour record all of 2024.
00:44:12.668 -->
00:44:15.380I never got back to the level I was in 2023.
00:44:15.380 -->
00:44:16.201I never got back there.
00:44:16.201 -->
00:44:24.947I was always, was always 20 watts down, 15 watts down, 30 seconds down in the time trial and I lost the world time trial championships because of that very reason in 24.
00:44:25.295 -->
00:44:35.061And I realized that, let's say, I train 20 hours a week with yoga and gym and bike, and 20 hours a week as a 56-year-old, that's as much as you can do.
00:44:35.061 -->
00:44:44.699So I couldn't do 25 hours a week for january, february, march, april of 2024 to get back to where I needed to be, because my body just simply couldn't take it.
00:44:44.699 -->
00:44:47.610I couldn't do it until until you, like you needed to.
00:44:47.610 -->
00:44:51.902You just realized there's a ceiling on on what you can do as you get older.
00:44:52.764 -->
00:44:59.208So it's a bit of a that's a bit of a side point about making sure you don't overdo it and overpush yourself and just protect your energy.
00:44:59.208 -->
00:45:09.128And my last point on that is to be super aware of your energy, like be very self-aware of where my energy is and listen to your body.
00:45:09.128 -->
00:45:25.387And I actually mean people say, oh, listen to your body, but I actually mean have a conversation with it, go into a meditative state or relax and ask questions of your body you know what do you think is right, and try and build a dialogue between mind and body in a very intentional way.
00:45:25.387 -->
00:45:36.286That sounds a bit sort of woo-woo, but I believe it's been quite an important part of my recovery from big setbacks and also being able to keep energized at 56.
00:45:39.275 -->
00:45:41.777You've talked quite a bit about kind of energies, and people talk about energy in lots of different ways, don't they?
00:45:41.777 -->
00:45:42.681In different places.
00:45:42.681 -->
00:45:46.065But what do you mean by listening to your energy?
00:45:46.065 -->
00:45:49.344So for our listeners out there, what does that start with?
00:45:49.344 -->
00:45:50.420What does that mean?
00:45:50.420 -->
00:45:56.463Like, how could they start out trying that, knowing what their energy is now and where it needs to be?
00:45:59.295 -->
00:46:08.079Well, I think the first thing is to set it as a goal, like, like for yourself, what do you, what's your relationship like with your own body?
00:46:08.079 -->
00:46:09.862Do you just carry on there regardless?
00:46:09.862 -->
00:46:12.228Or so, be one, be intentional.
00:46:12.228 -->
00:46:19.070So it's a thing in your life that I'm going to be aware of how my body feels.
00:46:19.070 -->
00:46:27.686And I'm going to sit quietly for five or six minutes a day and feel how I notice, how I feel in my body when I just sit there.
00:46:27.686 -->
00:46:30.451I've got any pains, I've got any aches, I've got any.
00:46:30.451 -->
00:46:35.586And so one, be intentional and say that's something I'm going to do, that's it, you're going to start there.
00:46:35.586 -->
00:46:39.561Secondly, have a little practice and say that's something I'm going to do, that's, you're going to start there.
00:46:39.561 -->
00:46:40.242Secondly, have a little practice.
00:46:40.242 -->
00:46:40.824It could be for me, it's.
00:46:40.864 -->
00:46:43.594You know, I always start and end the day with a mindful practice, you know.
00:46:43.594 -->
00:46:45.380So sometimes it's very simple.
00:46:45.380 -->
00:46:49.418You know, I just sit quietly before I get out of bed and look on my phone for 10 minutes.
00:46:49.418 -->
00:46:56.882I scan my body any pains, any aches and then have a little internal dialogue oh, that knee's hurting, you know what have you got?
00:46:56.882 -->
00:46:59.940Say what have you got to say about that knee and just see what comes up.
00:46:59.940 -->
00:47:01.400Sometimes nothing comes up.
00:47:01.400 -->
00:47:03.498Okay, sometimes something will come up.
00:47:03.719 -->
00:47:04.443Oh well, you know.
00:47:05.074 -->
00:47:13.135So it's just about being intentional, setting aside a little bit of time and building your awareness of that.
00:47:13.135 -->
00:47:18.940You can go a bit deeper and say you know, notice the vibrations in your body, like as you scan the body.
00:47:18.940 -->
00:47:23.505Stop at the ankle, stop at the knees, especially athletes, runners, cyclists.
00:47:23.505 -->
00:47:24.847Stop at the knees, stop at the hips.
00:47:24.847 -->
00:47:25.987Do you notice anything?
00:47:26.347 -->
00:47:27.829Sometimes, no, don't notice anything.
00:47:27.829 -->
00:47:29.190Okay, that's fine Sometimes.
00:47:29.190 -->
00:47:30.172Oh, do you notice something?
00:47:30.172 -->
00:47:38.590Okay, well, let me stop quietly asking my own mind what have you got to tell me?
00:47:38.590 -->
00:47:39.514Knees, hips, gut and see what comes up?
00:47:39.514 -->
00:47:53.005And I was very ill in 2020, like to the point where you know, the nurses told my wife you're gonna bed to think you should get to the hospital because Richard's we don't know if he's gonna make it like I was really ill and as part of my recovery, I engaged an embodied healer who worked with me.
00:47:53.005 -->
00:47:54.036I mean, I did all the other stuff.
00:47:54.036 -->
00:47:57.545I had a great physio, I had a sports doctor and nutritionist and they helped me.
00:47:57.545 -->
00:48:05.923But I also engaged the services of an embodied healer who really talked me through that process of engaging and in a dialogue between mind and body.
00:48:06.184 -->
00:48:07.628Look for the book.
00:48:07.628 -->
00:48:09.398Yeah, there is a section on embodied healing.
00:48:09.398 -->
00:48:11.242There's a meditation, a guided meditation.
00:48:11.242 -->
00:48:14.920I've recorded so you can be taken through a process to be able to do that.
00:48:14.920 -->
00:48:16.884It takes about eight or nine minutes.
00:48:16.884 -->
00:48:21.300You know you don't have to spend hours on it, but you know, just be intentional, practice it develop it.
00:48:21.300 -->
00:48:25.675The other thing I'll say about energy is like you know, we are just energy beings.
00:48:25.675 -->
00:48:27.782You know we're just atoms and molecules that vibrate.
00:48:27.782 -->
00:48:29.902You know the fact our eyes can't see them.
00:48:29.902 -->
00:48:32.780Is you know the part of the problem as Einstein.
00:48:32.780 -->
00:48:42.293But we are just made up of energy and you sort of know when you're a big competitor you're always up against, enters the arena or they're on the track with you.
00:48:42.293 -->
00:48:44.282So you feel it like are they good or bad?
00:48:44.282 -->
00:48:52.262So it's just like becoming much more aware of that as a practice and being noticing it, and then that's step one.
00:48:52.262 -->
00:48:53.378Then how could I use that?
00:48:53.378 -->
00:48:54.141What do I do with that?
00:48:54.141 -->
00:48:57.204And I've strategies that I would call energetic strategies.
00:48:57.204 -->
00:49:03.141So there's mental, there's physical, then there's energetic.
00:49:03.161 -->
00:49:04.726It's this third dimension I've been using quite a lot.
00:49:04.726 -->
00:49:05.710I think it's really interesting.
00:49:05.710 -->
00:49:18.936I think there's definitely more to go back to the term we used earlier marginal gains in mental health and wellbeing than anyone ever thought was possible years ago and probably most people still think it's possible now.
00:49:18.936 -->
00:49:25.949You mentioned your book, the equation, which I think will be out by the time we release the, the podcast, and it's not actually out at this moment in time, I don't think.
00:49:25.949 -->
00:49:36.304But what I always want to ask people is what books have you found help you on your journey, or what books do you find yourself recommending to other?
00:49:36.344 -->
00:49:38.887people.
00:49:38.887 -->
00:49:52.260Um so theory you by otto shawna, right, very interesting book, quite academic, but very interesting, talking about human presence and sense making.
00:49:52.260 -->
00:49:55.206He talks about we don't, as humans, say, oh, I need to make think of what's going on in my life.
00:49:55.206 -->
00:49:55.586You don't say that.
00:49:55.586 -->
00:49:57.791You say I need to make think of what's going on in my life.
00:49:57.791 -->
00:49:58.472You don't say that.
00:49:58.472 -->
00:50:01.860You say I want to make sense of what's going on, but then all we do is think.
00:50:01.860 -->
00:50:03.581We don't use our other senses.
00:50:03.581 -->
00:50:06.262So the philosophy of that book is really interesting.
00:50:06.262 -->
00:50:06.625That's one.
00:50:06.795 -->
00:50:09.844The second one is the New Earth by Eckhart Tolle.
00:50:09.844 -->
00:50:12.519My mum bought me the New Earth for my 40th birthday.
00:50:12.519 -->
00:50:20.764It took me about five years to actually get past page four, but it's an amazing book, totally and utterly amazing.
00:50:20.764 -->
00:50:26.106One of the most incredible books I've got Deepak Chopra's latest book on abundance.
00:50:26.106 -->
00:50:27.639That is really interesting.
00:50:27.639 -->
00:50:28.943I would recommend that.
00:50:28.943 -->
00:50:35.206The last one I'd recommend, if I'm allowed one more, is a book called Transitions by William Bridges.
00:50:35.206 -->
00:50:38.121It's especially good for people.
00:50:38.121 -->
00:50:40.047Can I say our stage of life?
00:50:40.047 -->
00:50:42.563Maybe I'm a bit older than you two, so don't offend anybody.
00:50:42.563 -->
00:50:45.063My stage of life it's really, really good.
00:50:45.063 -->
00:50:46.039It's a brilliant book.
00:50:46.039 -->
00:50:55.623Transitions, you know, as you sort of move through your life and you see different phases, and it's about how to recognise that and cope with it and flourish in it.
00:50:55.885 -->
00:50:56.166Brilliant.
00:50:56.166 -->
00:51:03.847I'm not sure that when we started this podcast, those would have been the books that people would have been expecting you to recommend, so I love that.
00:51:03.847 -->
00:51:13.041I actually also started the New Earth about twice and probably got about four pages in, but I was listening to it and I love the Power of Now.
00:51:13.041 -->
00:51:17.704But listening to Eckhart Tolle is challenging.
00:51:17.704 -->
00:51:22.501So I'm going to go back and actually physically read that book because I think that might give me a better shot at it.
00:51:22.501 -->
00:51:26.157And the other two Transitions I've Never Heard Of the Theory.
00:51:26.157 -->
00:51:29.364You Never Heard Of love, deepak Chopra, but I haven't read that one.
00:51:29.364 -->
00:51:30.307So that's brilliant.
00:51:30.307 -->
00:51:33.585Those are some really good books to add to the reading list, thank you.
00:51:33.585 -->
00:51:46.224And then we have a closing tradition on the podcast where the last guest asks the next guest a question without knowing who that person is going to be, and our last guest was the legendary Ironman world champion, kathleen McCartney.
00:51:46.224 -->
00:51:49.619So I think Claire has Kathleen's question lined up.
00:51:50.974 -->
00:51:58.860So Kathleen asks who has been the biggest influence on your career or pushed you to be better?
00:52:00.846 -->
00:52:38.000Um, I think the biggest influence on my career, I think probably Otto Schama actually, when I think about it, because he really pushed me, encouraged me into this much deeper humanistic sort of space of going deeper into sense making and seeing integration in systems, and so he's probably had the biggest influence on me as a human being and how I think about work and performance and relationships, and closely followed by Dan Siegel actually.
00:52:38.000 -->
00:52:49.429So those two I would say that's another book, actually Anything by Dan Siegel, particularly if you've got teenage kids Brainstorm by Dan Siegel, particularly if you've got teenage kids brainstormed by Dan Siegel, like understanding the teenage brain.
00:52:49.429 -->
00:52:54.798Dan Siegel's a neurobiologist in relationship, just a genius, complete genius.
00:52:54.798 -->
00:52:56.835And what was the second part of the question?
00:52:56.835 -->
00:52:57.498He's pushed me.
00:52:58.990 -->
00:53:01.920Yeah, or who has pushed you to be better.
00:53:03.851 -->
00:53:05.644Dan big one, no question.
00:53:06.007 -->
00:53:06.230Brilliant.
00:53:06.230 -->
00:53:08.315Well, it's amazing how it's those.
00:53:08.315 -->
00:53:11.653It's those people that, yeah, not.
00:53:11.653 -->
00:53:20.115It's interesting sometimes that I would have expected that answer to be somebody that you were competing against, but he's obviously pushed you in a different way.
00:53:20.115 -->
00:53:23.800But that's fascinating, richard, it's been absolutely brilliant chatting to you.
00:53:23.800 -->
00:53:35.119I think we've got some amazing business insights, some amazing longevity insights, but also some brilliant sporting stories and and really fascinating lessons to to take from this interview.
00:53:35.119 -->
00:53:37.166Um, so huge thank you for that.
00:53:37.166 -->
00:53:46.396For those people that want to find out more about your coaching business or about the o10 avr cycling team or about you in person, where is the best place for them to go?
00:53:46.396 -->
00:53:46.637Look?
00:53:48.360 -->
00:53:50.291um, there's always stuff on linkedin.
00:53:50.291 -->
00:53:52.817I'm always putting stuff on linkedin so you can find me on linkedin.
00:53:52.817 -->
00:53:58.300I mean we I don't run a coaching business, bizarrely, you know I.
00:53:58.300 -->
00:54:04.956You know we've got tools and methodologies and programs that that sort of help organizations more widely up.
00:54:04.956 -->
00:54:19.780I do a bit of coaching, but you know it's more on systemic, like ecosystems, it's like systemic work getting groups of people, collective intelligence how do we get collective intelligence to work to its highest potential?
00:54:19.780 -->
00:54:22.115Of course you've got to do some individual work in the mix of that.
00:54:22.115 -->
00:54:27.617But if you find me on linkedin, timo tenovea, sam myself are on instagram, so you can find us on Instagram.
00:54:27.617 -->
00:54:35.402We're doing some interesting technology posts on Instagram at the moment about stuff we're doing on aerodynamics for cyclists and triathletes.
00:54:35.402 -->
00:54:36.764Who might be interested in that stuff.
00:54:36.764 -->
00:54:42.262You know anybody who feels they might like to buy my book, we'll have a Shopify link on Instagram.
00:54:42.989 -->
00:54:45.438Any cyclist should follow me on Strava because I'm very open.
00:54:45.438 -->
00:54:49.322You can see the training sessions I do, the power outputs, the heart rates.
00:54:49.322 -->
00:54:50.362You know it's all up there.
00:54:50.362 -->
00:54:53.425I've had people from all over the world say oh guy, I follow your training.
00:54:53.425 -->
00:54:56.313It's inspiring people from Chicago and people from South Africa.
00:54:56.313 -->
00:54:59.083And you know Strava is a great tool so you can find me there.
00:54:59.083 -->
00:55:05.135Yeah, and O10, the O10 group, has a website so you can see what we do organizationally, if you want to, if you want to there.
00:55:05.135 -->
00:55:08.681But also just to say thank you to you two Great, brilliant questions.
00:55:08.681 -->
00:55:24.298You know, I feel like I've been properly, like you know, put through the wringer in a very good way, in a very good way, you know, to really get to the bottom of why I think some of the things I do, and so compliments to you two for getting that out of me and it's been super enjoyable.
00:55:24.298 -->
00:55:25.592Thank you very much, guys.
00:55:25.612 -->
00:55:26.514Brilliant.
00:55:26.534 -->
00:55:26.833Thank you.
00:55:27.496 -->
00:55:28.277Thank you very much.
00:55:28.277 -->
00:55:31.443So what did you make of the conversation with Richard?
00:55:34.809 -->
00:55:39.601It was fantastic, you know, to have an athlete who is at the top of his game in terms of working, having a full-time job.
00:55:39.601 -->
00:55:43.737So you know all these people that we talk about, you know in business, having a business.
00:55:43.737 -->
00:55:50.139He's you know about to launch his book and he's also competing at this really high level as he's getting older.
00:55:50.139 -->
00:56:00.594It's fascinating to speak to him and I think that it was really interesting what he was talking about in terms of being more human in conversations and in this world of AI.
00:56:00.594 -->
00:56:03.460I guess that's and you'll be able to answer this question.
00:56:03.460 -->
00:56:11.519You know, I guess that's what we are going to have to really pull on is the human aspect as AI starts to come into business.
00:56:11.519 -->
00:56:12.802I mean, what's your take on that?
00:56:13.269 -->
00:56:20.911Well, I mean, I think, like we said at the time, I think AI is an opportunity to humanize what humans do best.
00:56:20.911 -->
00:56:23.876It's freeing up the human to do what they do best.
00:56:23.876 -->
00:56:33.159And, let's be honest, the thing that human does best is not repetitive, boring, necessarily dangerous activities.
00:56:33.159 -->
00:56:39.539What human does best is that empathy, creativity, leadership, all of that kind of emotional stuff.
00:56:39.539 -->
00:56:49.652So if AI frees the human up to do more of that and less of the boring admin email kind of that stuff, that, to me, is where the opportunity is.
00:56:49.652 -->
00:56:55.914So I think it's a huge opportunity to do and I think richard's absolutely right in that we're not trying to shy away from this.
00:56:56.396 -->
00:56:58.931You know ai is not replacing humans at what they do best.
00:56:58.931 -->
00:57:01.076It's actually replacing what human.
00:57:01.076 -->
00:57:06.461You know, like getting distracted while driving down the motorway is a typically human trait, but.
00:57:06.461 -->
00:57:14.722But AI is very good at not getting distracted and just sticking between the lanes and focusing on the repetitive and boring task that goes on for hours.
00:57:14.722 -->
00:57:30.436So, yeah, I think it was really interesting in that sense and I think, whilst initially I think it felt like he was anti-AI, I think when you dig down it's like well, actually AI is great for certain things because that frees humans up to do other things.
00:57:30.436 -->
00:57:32.922So I think that's where I took it.
00:57:32.922 -->
00:57:34.293What else did you get from?
00:57:34.293 -->
00:57:39.114We talked a little bit about goal setting, but what else did you get from the conversation with Richard?
00:57:40.476 -->
00:57:41.780I think there were some great things.
00:57:41.780 -->
00:58:04.411Actually, I was writing notes as we're going along, because there's some really great things that he was saying, and one of the things that I picked up on was about this kind of the making things simple, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be easy, and I think you know we can definitely in business and in sport, like over complicate things and I think there's, you know, with confused messages out there.
00:58:04.411 -->
00:58:21.206I think often things are overcomplicated and actually it's having somebody be able to know and be experienced in their area and be able to translate complicated science or complicated technology into simple and easy to be able to use.
00:58:21.206 -->
00:58:33.179But, like you said, actually all of this being more human in business, it it does take work because you have to listen to yourself and change yourself and be aware of yourself.
00:58:33.179 -->
00:58:36.012Um, so that for me was was really interesting.
00:58:36.715 -->
00:58:49.664I thought the other thing about you were just mentioning about goals and he was talking about not having like these, like goals on their own, but actually integrating goals into other areas of life or business.
00:58:49.664 -->
00:58:51.693So what is your take on that?
00:58:51.693 -->
00:59:00.996Because you're a great goal setter and you're often talking, you know, certainly at Trusted Team you're talking a lot about goal setting and you're brilliant at setting but meeting your goals.
00:59:00.996 -->
00:59:03.222So what is your thought on this integration?
00:59:04.190 -->
00:59:12.041Well, I think the way I described it at the time was, instead of having goals like, a lot of people have goals in one area of their life because they get told to set goals.
00:59:12.041 -->
00:59:13.617So they set business goals and guess what?
00:59:13.617 -->
00:59:17.195They have a successful business life and everything else falls by the wayside.
00:59:17.195 -->
00:59:23.215So I actually think that there's I always talk about the six spheres of success, which and we should set goals in each of them.
00:59:23.215 -->
00:59:40.996So that's what you do inside the business, but also as a business owner because that's typically who I coach what you do on the business, so that's you as the, let's say, accountant or financial advisor inside the business, but also a separate set of goals should be about you as the entrepreneur, as the business owner.
00:59:40.996 -->
00:59:44.835And then the other four spheres health, wealth, happiness and relationships.
00:59:44.835 -->
00:59:48.311And I agree with Richard, I think they are intertwined.
00:59:48.311 -->
01:00:06.255I'd be intrigued to know and actually just look at his goal setting process, because when I write out my goals for each of those different areas, they do overlap and they do intertwine, but I have distinct goals for each of them, and so I would be intrigued to know what process he goes through.
01:00:06.255 -->
01:00:12.199I know I sit down every quarter and write out you know what's my next quarter's goals for each of those six areas.
01:00:12.199 -->
01:00:17.478Every year I sit down and go what's next year's goals and what have I got to do this quarter to be on track for that.
01:00:17.478 -->
01:00:20.518And I've got it siloed in my brain as to.
01:00:21.110 -->
01:00:22.958But they're not independent of each other.
01:00:22.958 -->
01:00:29.251They are like I can't say you know, for example, if of each other.
01:00:29.251 -->
01:00:31.659They are like I can't say you know, for example, if I want to do another iron man.
01:00:31.659 -->
01:00:38.798It's like, okay, well, can I make a family experience out of that iron man, or it can I make a business case out of that iron man, or I want to speak at this conference in the us.
01:00:38.798 -->
01:00:44.297Can it be a family trip or can I tie it in with some adventure and go cycling and that's so.
01:00:44.297 -->
01:00:46.262They definitely, definitely intertwine.
01:00:46.862 -->
01:00:58.538But I think in my mind you've still got to have a separate, focused goal for each of those areas, otherwise I I just can't quite get my head around exactly how that works.
01:00:58.538 -->
01:01:09.373But I definitely think he's right in that they are intertwined, albeit you still need the separate goals, and it is by having those separate goals that you create balance.
01:01:09.373 -->
01:01:15.317Because if everything is about you completing your Ironman and you're doing well in business, guess what?
01:01:15.317 -->
01:01:19.773Your relationships are going to suffer, and probably you might even burn out as well.
01:01:19.773 -->
01:01:22.621So therefore, your own health has fallen by the wayside.
01:01:22.621 -->
01:01:24.615So actually, you know, you've got.
01:01:24.615 -->
01:01:34.853You've got got to find balance, and I find that by doing those six spheres of happiness, it kind of helps me make sure that I am creating balance through my goal setting process.
01:01:34.853 -->
01:01:44.271And and I suppose I'll just sort of throw that back to you, because you've obviously worked with this approach through, you know, being a part of the trusted team how has that approach worked for you?
01:01:44.873 -->
01:01:55.476so I I totally agree that I think, and actually, when you were saying it, the whole idea of having these separate focus goals doesn't mean to say they don't come together at some point.
01:01:55.476 -->
01:02:08.199You know, you giving that perfect example of actually and I was thinking actually from an Ironman perspective like you're training for this, maybe one or two major A races, but actually how can you integrate another goal into it?
01:02:08.199 -->
01:02:19.072Like we'll go and race in some fantastic place and go to somewhere, and I often find I'm like, well, actually this was never where I was going to go on holiday, but if I go to this place, I would never have visited there otherwise.
01:02:19.072 -->
01:02:20.735And what an amazing experience.
01:02:20.735 -->
01:02:28.221So I think for me being able to list it out, particularly in other areas, that I wouldn't have set a goal.
01:02:28.221 -->
01:02:31.516So, for example, would I have set a relationship goal before?
01:02:31.516 -->
01:02:34.010No, like I just wouldn't have thought about that.
01:02:34.010 -->
01:02:43.994I would have thought maybe, oh well, I could, you know, go to that place, but I can take some friends with me, I'll meet friends there, but I wouldn't have thought it in the way that you set them out a trusted team.
01:02:44.496 -->
01:02:56.958So I do really like that because it absolutely does make you look at areas of your life that you would probably and certainly from my perspective, I would have probably missed or neglected in terms of goal setting.
01:02:56.958 -->
01:03:03.402But it doesn't mean to say that they don't then merge, because one thing that you've just said is time.
01:03:03.402 -->
01:03:07.376You know, actually, when you're really busy, actually, how can you do those things?
01:03:07.376 -->
01:03:17.353So you going away and speaking at an event, but going somewhere amazing and cycling there, or going to an event, like when you went to Kona and took your whole family what an amazing family experience.
01:03:17.353 -->
01:03:43.561I think it really that goal setting approach into other areas for me is key, because they are the areas, I think, that often people miss or drop, and you know relationships then break down your fun, your health, that's all missed, isn't it, if you're not setting goals around it and I think the other thing is that by having a goal setting process, it's just forcing you to sort of step out of it for a period.
01:03:43.581 -->
01:03:44.324You know we say that.
01:03:44.324 -->
01:03:57.315You know, the idea of writing goals for your business is so that you're you step out of working in the business and you think about the bigger picture stuff and you force yourself to go well, okay, yeah, we're busy doing this thing here, but is it actually the right thing?
01:03:57.315 -->
01:04:02.333Should we be kind of lifting our head up and going, oh, actually we could do something differently or smarter or whatever?
01:04:02.333 -->
01:04:04.217And it's the same with relationships, isn't it?
01:04:04.217 -->
01:04:10.585You can either keep plodding along I can't remember who it was I was listening to that said their spouse got the kind of leftovers.
01:04:10.585 -->
01:04:18.541You know, the business took a huge chunk of them, their hobbies and fitness took a huge chunk, the children took a huge chunk and the spouse got the leftovers.
01:04:19.030 -->
01:04:22.099So they ended up putting in specific time.
01:04:22.510 -->
01:04:33.420They're like once a month or once a week, we're going to do this Once a month, we're going to do this once a month, we're going to do that once a quarter, we're going to do that.
01:04:33.369 -->
01:04:34.980And by doing that they kind of ring fence and all it took was a little bit of planning.
01:04:34.980 -->
01:04:35.902So that's exactly what you know, carol and I do.
01:04:35.902 -->
01:04:47.523We'll try and have a date night once a month, but we'll have kind of us time once a week and then once a quarter we have a full planning day, which is just kind of looking back at the last quarter and going okay, did we do what we said we were going to do?
01:04:47.523 -->
01:05:10.576Essentially the same process that we go through from a business goal setting, but we do as a couple and on a family basis, and it's just that thought and that conversation that brings out awareness and it makes you set a plan for the next month, three months, year, whatever it is, and you're much more likely to implement on that plan if you've created it in the first place I think I think also create.
01:05:10.657 -->
01:05:21.036You know I often talk with my clients about, you know, setting these specific goals, because people often say in the world of nutrition oh, I want to lose weight, I don't know two kilograms.
01:05:21.036 -->
01:05:24.072Well, what does two kilograms look like and why is it so important?
01:05:24.072 -->
01:05:27.001So, actually setting a, but having a vision around it.
01:05:27.001 -->
01:05:32.896So you know, some of your goals that you're setting through your trusted team are the ones you've just been talking about.
01:05:32.896 -->
01:05:37.317You know, having a goal, you know from a relationship point of view, actually there's a vision attached to that, isn't there?
01:05:37.317 -->
01:05:56.264Like we're going away for a week, or you know we're going away for the weekend, like that, I feel is really important, because then you're more likely to meet a goal if you've got a vision that's around it yeah, and when you commit something to paper or digitally or you just verbalize it with somebody else, you create accountability both to yourself and with other people.
01:05:56.887 -->
01:05:59.173And again, yeah, you're likely to implement it, aren't you?
01:05:59.173 -->
01:06:09.454So, yeah, like you say, if you, if you set a goal and it's to lose this amount of weight or to change your diet in this way, and you write it down and share it with somebody else, guess what?
01:06:09.454 -->
01:06:11.338It's way more likely to happen, isn't it?
01:06:11.338 -->
01:06:15.994So, yeah, brilliant, well, a great episode and like really inspirational.
01:06:16.074 -->
01:06:25.275And I think also, what we can take from richard is that you know he's achieving these incredible feats and becoming world champion and you know, seven times world champion, but he's becoming.
01:06:25.275 -->
01:06:26.168You know he's won world championships and set world champion.
01:06:26.168 -->
01:06:27.382You know, seven times world champion, but he's becoming.
01:06:27.382 -->
01:06:33.443You know he's won world championships and set world records in his 50s and will continue to do that, I have no doubt.
01:06:33.443 -->
01:06:42.079And so you know if anyone's sitting there thinking, oh, yeah, but I didn't do this, it's too late, no, it really really isn't.
01:06:42.079 -->
01:06:58.764And if you read Richard Asquith's latest book, race Against Time, it's talking about a lot of stories about Masters, athletes and how amazing a community that is, but how amazing some of these people are racing, you know, way beyond Richard's 50s and into their 60s, 70s and even 80s, and hundreds.
01:06:58.764 -->
01:06:59.775It's incredible.
01:06:59.775 -->
01:07:07.659So it's another book for the reading, the ever expanding, brilliant Well, a great episode, episode and for everyone at home.
01:07:07.659 -->
01:07:09.083Keep on training.
