Season 1, Episode 9: Jonathan Ong - Concert Pianist, Arranger, Twitch Streamer

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You're listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.
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Welcome back to another episode of the PianoPod.
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I am Eric Hunter.
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I am Clara Zhang.
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I'm Yukime Song.
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Our guest today is Jonathan Ahn, classical pianist, improviser, arranger, and Twitch
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streamer.
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With over 57,000 followers, 2.4 million views, and 3,500 hours of streaming time, Jonathan
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is ranked in the top 0.1% of all Twitch streamers and is, needless to say, among the world's
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top Twitch music channels.
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Everybody, please welcome Mr. Jonathan Ahn.
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Yay, welcome.
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you for having me.
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Some of our audience might not be familiar with Twitch.
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And so I wanted to ask you if you could talk about a little bit about what Twitch is and
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why you chose it as a platform for what you do.
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Oh, absolutely.
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Oh, well, let's go top level.
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Absolute top level.
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What I do is busking on the internet.
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That's literally what it is.
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It's just busking on the internet.
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But if you go a little bit into what Twitch is, Twitch is basically an empty space.
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Much like YouTube, it's an empty space.
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You have a channel with your name on it.
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And that's just an empty room and you just got to put things in it.
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And most people know Twitch as a gaming platform.
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They put their gameplay in it because that's the focal point.
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That's what people congregate around.
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And then they start talking about it.
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But the value add for any streamer, the reason why anybody will continue to come back would
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either be because they're good at that thing that they're showing off or that they add
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commentary or they have to bring something to the table for people to keep coming back.
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But that's essentially what Twitch is.
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It's like interactive television based around interest that you can find.
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And you'll find that it's not just gaming and it's also not just music.
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It's art, it's sculpting, there's people wandering around IRL in real life.
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There's people making, I can't even remember what I was saying, there are people animating.
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There's all sorts of things that people do.
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Cooking, cooking is a big section now, actually.
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And there's even some people who sell yachts around the world.
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Like they're selling a yacht around the world and you can follow them and they've got amazing
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drone cameras and things and you can actually just explore them.
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Wow.
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All right.
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So I'm starting to get an idea, but just for the sake of comparison.
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So why do you choose Twitch over something like YouTube or Facebook live streaming, Instagram
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streaming?
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Well, the thing about Instagram and things is there's a limited amount of customization
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at the moment.
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So for example, with Twitch, you can literally get this amazing free broadcast software and
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actually this will work with YouTube and Facebook as well, but we'll talk about it in a second.
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So as long as you can harness the power of your PC and this free software, open broadcasting
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software studio, OBS studio, you will end up being able to present almost anything you
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want, basically limited by your ability to putting graphics and sound and that's it.
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Just the only real limitations.
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So Instagram doesn't have quite that flexibility yet.
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You have to do work around it.
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Facebook has got a very different culture.
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It's Facebook gaming and the way they do their chat and so on is of course, it's like in
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comments, like on Facebook posts, which doesn't feel as organic and doesn't flow as easily
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to me.
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And then Twitch is actually sort of like for YouTube of live streaming.
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It's quite niche still globally, but it's the big daddy of live streaming websites.
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And when we ourselves like music are a niche, it's helpful to have a really, really big
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platform so that way at least within the big platform, your niche is a bit bigger.
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Absolutely.
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Well that makes sense.
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With YouTube, I feel like YouTube is really, really good for polished content because they
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give you an engagement stat of how long people watch your videos for.
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And depending on the material, of course, like if it's something like music, people just
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want to hear the song for two to three minutes and then they're good.
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But a live stream and especially the sort of things I do, they go for about six or seven
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hours and I don't know if the last time you watched a seven hour YouTube video.
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Not recently.
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Not recently indeed.
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So it's for more curated content, I think more polished, more curated content.
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Whereas Twitch did some, it's literally things you create in the moment.
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It's sort of like a cafe.
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You go to a cafe.
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Right.
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And people can jump in or out anytime.
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And they do.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I actually saw your show or episode or whatever, and it's literally seven, eight
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hours.
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Yeah.
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You're streaming, you're performing the entire time.
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It just goes that long.
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That we need to use the restroom.
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Yeah, but that's it.
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What about like lunch?
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Yeah, no, you don't.
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You don't.
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You have a big old meal before you start.
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I mean, there's nothing saying that I can't.
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There's nothing saying that you can't.
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And technically you're supposed to take breaks every two hours and wake up a PRB screen or
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whatever.
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I'm very task oriented, so because people in my community have requested songs to be
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played and it takes me a good deal of time to work my way around them and build them
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into arrangements and things.
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I guess if I had a tagline, I suppose my stream would be the slowest production stream.
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No, hang on.
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The quickest production stream on Twitch, but the slowest request stream.
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Because most people, when you ask them to play a thing, they play the song on their
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instrument and then it's done.
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It's gone.
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And that took about three minutes.
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But then for me, they go, can you play this?
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And I go, well, not yet.
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And then I listened to it and I basically transcribe enough notation that I can do the
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song in about five to six minutes.
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And then I loop it into some orchestral or symphonic metal bands or whatever.
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And of course, because it's a loop and it's sound and it travels through time, we have
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to build it layer by layer by layer.
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And so this entire process takes the better part of 30 to 40 minutes, depending.
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But then we can perform usually almost the whole song with a full arrangement and solo
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over it like it's my own messed up piano concerto, which I really, really have fun doing.
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Oh, that's fantastic.
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Yeah.
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So the thing is then people queue up all these things and I get really like tunnel visioned
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and I'm just like, I now I'm here on the internet until I finished the queue because people
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tipped kind of for those.
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And so I have to do them.
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So the stream only ends when the queue ends.
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Okay.
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Well, that takes a lot of dedication for sure.
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It's like an unspoken social contract.
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Yeah.
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It's as you know, it's just trust.
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So people say, oh, you're offering this and you do this.
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And then if you don't do the thing, then those people may not support you anymore.
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So you gotta really.
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I mean, you gotta keep them coming back.
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So basically your show starts and you take a request from the viewer.
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Correct.
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And then, you know, you hum the melody and from watching the actual music, whatever,
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whoever the artist is made, basically yours is.
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It's an arrangement arrangement of the transcription.
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Yeah.
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And then direct transcription, of course.
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And you're making your arrangement and then orchestrating like in front of the audience
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streaming audience.
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Yeah.
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You're making, that's amazing.
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Wow.
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It just, it developed on the platform.
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Because you can't put that anywhere else.
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You can't put it anywhere.
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Like where does it go?
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So it's a Twitch specific format.
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I do more traditional things like tomorrow I'll be doing a more traditional thing.
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Every two weeks, because of the streaming, I was able to acquire like an old concert
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grand from Bechstein.
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And then I've gone a mess to it a lot.
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I've gone and put all these lights in it and I put like a laser strip in it.
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And so now that's sort of like a quasi, it's not digital at all.
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It's fully acoustic, but it has digital effects and things tied to every note.
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Which I really, yeah, it's so cool.
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It's so cool.
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It's basically my calf of the next 10 years.
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But you know how it is your pianist too.
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And I do more traditional streams where I sit there and best bang out all sorts of tunes
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for about four and a half hours.
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They used to go really, really long, but it's really, really impossible to maintain a really
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good quality over seven, eight hours of just piano playing, as you all know.
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Yeah, it's so hard.
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Wow.
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So first of all, I think anybody listening probably is already really interested to check
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out what it looks like, what you do.
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So we'll say it again at the end, but can you say your Twitch channel address for the
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viewers and then we will put it in the description later.
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But what is it?
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It's www.twitch.tv slash Jonathan Ong, which is J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-O-N-G.
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And there's no spaces or anything here.
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And I was, when I first made that channel, I, it's really my first social media platform
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I'm taking very seriously and I didn't know what handle to use.
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And actually I didn't really have a lot of time to think about it because I was supposed
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to just hop on with a friend and play some stuff.
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So I literally just plugged in my name, which is, you know, it's a great way to de-anonymize
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yourself on the internet.
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I'm curious, where did you find the inspiration to do that?
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I had a friend who was on Twitch.
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I don't know if he's still on now, but he's doing very silly stuff.
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So I never even thought of, one time he was like, oh, I was seeing you can dance.
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I'm like, I'm not a dancer, you know?
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But what inspired you to actually do this big production?
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Well we're pianists and pianists are basically homers, right?
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We don't, we don't, and you know, you don't get to play with a whole bunch of other people
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almost any of the time, unless you do chamber music and things.
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And the problem with chamber music, okay, so this can sound probably pretty terrible,
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but the problem with doing chamber music and things like that is the more people involved
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in your stuff, like the harder it is to get it out there and do.
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And so I did some collaborative concerts and I found them excessively sort of like difficult
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to organise.
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And then when you actually do the event, it's also hard to make them financially viable
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because now everyone also needs to be paid.
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So then everybody basically ends up with dinner money at the end of the thing that supposedly
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grossed five figures.
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So it's like, okay, this is interesting.
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But at the same time, there's that thrill of playing with other instruments still, right?
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So back in the beginning, way before I knew what Twitch was, way before Twitch even existed
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actually, back then, I think Twitch started in 2011 and it wasn't called Twitch.
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It was called Justin.tv because a guy basically streamed his own life and just went around
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and it took off.
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The original live stream pretty much.
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So that was really cool.
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But I was doing tertiary education at the time, I was doing a postgrad.
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And I just realised that all these VSTs and all I wanted at the time was to make really
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dramatic orchestral music and play piano along with them or recreate some piano concertos
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and play along with them.
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And so I bought one string library and then I bought another string library and then I
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needed to fill in my woodwinds.
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And before I knew it, I'd spent a completely insane amount of money as a student on a fairly
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large collection of VSTs, you know, all these virtual instruments.
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It gets addictive, I know what you're talking about.
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It's horrifying.
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It's absolutely horrifying.
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And then I found Craigslist and Craigslist had all this secondhand stuff, you know, and
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so I found like a keytar because I've always wanted to play guitar, but that was never
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an offer in my lifetime.
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And you know, when I was growing up, and so I just never did.
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And so there was this keytar and I was like, hey, that's kind of cool.
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It's like really dorky, but it's also kind of cool.
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Maybe I should.
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And then I just bought it and I had no use for it.
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So it just appeared at parties when everyone was drinking and I was playing along and it
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appeared in a few friends, YouTube videos and things like that.
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And the same thing for my VSTs.
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They were too limited in scope because I'd only spent the better part of like eight thousand
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dollars or something at the time, which is huge.
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But in the world of VSTs is not that much, sadly.
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So I basically at the time, especially so I had nothing to do with them.
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And I tried doing some film composing gigs with friends and they never really went anywhere.
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And I said, I didn't know what to do with it.
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And then I came back here to Australia and just got on with the serious business of surviving
240
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in my adult life, you know, day to day music teaching, classical performances, things like
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that, all the normal things.
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And it's only when I appeared on Twitch and I realized that, oh, I can actually maybe
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I can use this stuff.
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The real turning point was when one one particularly good special came out.
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I don't have a shopping problem.
246
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,240
It seems highly suspicious.
247
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Oh, dear.
248
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,360
I don't know.
249
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,560
How many keyboards are in your background over there?
250
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:57,560
None.
251
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:58,560
Yes, none.
252
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:08,040
So for anybody listening, he just eliminated the background.
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To be honest, most of the stuff that's a used one says that and says that.
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And that was a present.
255
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,080
And that was like 40 percent off.
256
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And that was like it goes like that.
257
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And this was a bonus.
258
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We're really not auditing.
259
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I bought all these VSTs.
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I had no use for them.
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Twitch came along and then I realized I could actually use them for something and I could
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actually do what I wanted to do previously.
263
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,240
And the real flip turning point was when I just bought this loop station and I was like,
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I'm going to learn to loop.
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00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,600
And honestly, I don't know if I've learned to loop because I think I'm the only person
266
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I know who's using the loop station in this way.
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Usually you loop with eight bars, 16 bars, 32 bars or something, right?
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And you groove and you do the thing.
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And we're classical musicians.
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So I find that really hard to jive with because I get bored.
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I'm used to things evolving and changing and things.
272
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And so what do I end up doing?
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I make it even potentially more boring by looping you an entire 90 seconds to two minutes
274
00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:11,520
of whatever song it is, which includes verse and chorus structures and bridges and things
275
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like that.
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The entire structure gets looped.
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And then I arrange over the top of it layer by layer like a dot matrix printer.
278
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It's a very weird way of using a loop station.
279
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,680
But then I end up with these loops that are essentially fully orchestrated tracks.
280
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That's really neat.
281
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:30,680
Yeah, you're right.
282
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I never heard of anybody using a loop station that way, but it does make sense that that's
283
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,640
how we would do it as classical musicians.
284
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:43,760
We like complexity in our structures and in our chord progressions, in our melodies.
285
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It's like constant evolution.
286
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Absolutely.
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I mean, for what it's worth, anybody I've tried to who is in this space, who's like
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00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,400
streaming or doing social media, anytime I've tried to explain to anybody what I do, they
289
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,440
go, oh, that's not going to work.
290
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And I go, well, it's working.
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I'm making a living.
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And they're like, oh, oh, that's a surprise.
293
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,720
Because technically it's so long for the Internet.
294
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:16,400
So what I found much like in the school playground, except much, much, much bigger and better,
295
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,880
in the world, you can be your own kind of weird and you find enough weirdos who like
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what you like.
297
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,640
And you don't need that many of them to have something good going.
298
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,880
And that's basically what's happening here, I think.
299
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,880
Yeah.
300
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,360
And that's the power of the Internet, right?
301
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,640
I mean, don't sell yourself short.
302
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:34,640
Like what you do is amazing.
303
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,640
Right.
304
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160
And you've clearly found a large audience, so it's not that niche.
305
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,080
But it is true that, you know, we can reach out internationally, right?
306
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,400
Find people in all diverse pockets of the world that way.
307
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,400
Absolutely.
308
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,400
Yeah.
309
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,840
It's really it's actually really cool to like going back because I remember this other point
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00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,200
to this massive collection of stuff.
311
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,280
I won't go for a shopping list or anything.
312
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,360
But one of the things is that that got hammered into me at school was something about how
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you need a social and a physical environment.
314
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,800
You know, this whole thing about a child education and things.
315
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,640
You need to give them a social environment and a physical environment so that they can
316
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:15,640
learn music.
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00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,200
The physical environment, of course, is your instruments and things like that.
318
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,240
And the social environment is the encouragement of development of, you know, this particular
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00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,240
interest.
320
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,880
And so in some ways, the reason why I was buying these things was actually because I
321
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,280
was like, I don't really know how to use them, but I'll never find out if I don't get some.
322
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:35,280
Yeah.
323
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,760
So then I got some, but then I sort of just fell off the cliff and bought all of them.
324
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,760
So sometimes you got to do that.
325
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,080
It's good to have options.
326
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,640
And that's also the creative mind part, right?
327
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,200
Like if you're not so creative, if you're not free with your mind and then we are always
328
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,360
staying with the tradition, it's hard actually to explore.
329
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:57,680
You know, sometimes that's a very that's yeah, that's a that's not I don't know if it's a
330
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:58,680
creative mind.
331
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:05,120
I think creativity is a thing that gets trained out of us if we, you know, in educational
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00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:12,200
context, because we are so we're guided so much towards goal oriented things and task
333
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,720
oriented things in the course of our education.
334
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,840
If you're not really lucky, your education becomes purely vocational.
335
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,720
It trains you for a thing.
336
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,340
But as musicians, as musicians who go through college, the training really only trains us
337
00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:31,440
to go and do the same thing that our professors do.
338
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,100
Kind of right.
339
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,560
Because that's you can you're you're best able to guide people along things that you
340
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:38,560
know how to do yourself.
341
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,560
Absolutely.
342
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,160
I mean, that's their area of expertise.
343
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,400
Yeah, of course.
344
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,840
And so then when we spend all our time focusing on the things that we're trained to do and
345
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,880
things, no one's actually going around telling you, hey, you should feel free to go and explore,
346
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,440
especially with classical music.
347
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,440
Oh, yeah.
348
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,360
Oh, this interpretation is wrong.
349
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:57,760
Oh, these notes are wrong.
350
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,040
Like, you know, this is outside of the of the guidelines and things like that.
351
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:08,580
And so because we become so specialized and so proficient at interpreting things within
352
00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:13,680
our guidelines and things like that, when we try and start making up stuff, improvising,
353
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,120
arranging, messing around with things, it feels like we're doing something wrong.
354
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:19,120
You find that?
355
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:20,120
Oh, yeah.
356
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,680
It took me years to get over that.
357
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:22,680
Oh, yeah.
358
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,680
So painful.
359
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:24,680
Yeah.
360
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,800
All the classical musicians, like even the students, our students, right?
361
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,680
Like we all teach, it's hard for them to improvise sometimes in the beginning because they're
362
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,880
so used to being told what to do by the score almost.
363
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,120
You know, it's like when you do it outside of the score, you feel like you're being a
364
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,120
bad child almost.
365
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:50,000
You know, there's something comforting about about just playing, you know, as faithfully
366
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,040
as possible to the composers and tensions.
367
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,440
It's very comforting because it's actually not fully us, is it?
368
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,960
It's like we're not responsible for these.
369
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,460
Yeah, we're not responsible for this.
370
00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:03,820
This is not actually my heart, my soul, my emotional state.
371
00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:06,520
This is actually me portraying what I think.
372
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,720
And so when you start going out and making your own music, when it's just like, oh, it
373
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,720
all feels weird now.
374
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,520
Yeah, it's a very exposed feeling.
375
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:16,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
376
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:23,520
Confetti for your birthday, here we go.
377
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:31,520
Radio com 1G, face of the confetti.
378
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:44,520
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Confuse, happy birthday
379
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:51,520
to the kid now, happy birthday to you.
380
00:20:51,520 --> 00:21:01,520
You so can count down 364 days, but maybe you don't want to, because you want to enjoy
381
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,520
the age you are.
382
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:03,520
Never.
383
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:15,520
Never.
384
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:37,520
Never.
385
00:21:37,520 --> 00:22:04,200
I'm just curious about your experiences in the United States.
386
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,840
So how long you've been, were you in California?
387
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,600
I believe you were in California.
388
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,560
Yeah, absolutely.
389
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,680
Basically I managed to get into the master's program at USC in 2007.
390
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:26,680
So from about July, August, I went over there and just had a blast actually until March
391
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,680
2012.
392
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,920
And that's basically, that's how long it took me to finish my master's and my DMA.
393
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,040
Yeah, they just kept funding it fortunately for me because otherwise I could never have
394
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,040
done it.
395
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,760
I'm very grateful for them for that.
396
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,400
So you went to USC Thornton School of Music?
397
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,400
Yeah, absolutely.
398
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,400
Like Eric.
399
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,400
Yep.
400
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,400
That's right.
401
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,400
We just missed each other matter of fact.
402
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,400
Because I graduated 2006.
403
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,400
Oh, so you guys didn't know each other back then.
404
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,400
You just met later on.
405
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,400
Yeah, I mean, pretty much like I came back to Luz during the summer, but we weren't students
406
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,400
at the same time.
407
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,400
And I heard about Eric and his wife.
408
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
409
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
410
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
411
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
412
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
413
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,400
I heard about Eric and his wife.
414
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,160
I heard about Eric and his wife.
415
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,580
And I heard about Eric from other students because he was really well known at that time.
416
00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:07,580
And so...
417
00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:08,580
I'll give their name.
418
00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:11,580
Me and my roommates, we threw a lot of parties.
419
00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:12,580
Oh, wow!
420
00:23:12,580 --> 00:23:15,440
Maybe a bit of notoriety.
421
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:21,800
But when you were in California studying and you were studying like strictly classical
422
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840
music, like performing arts?
423
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,840
Yeah, I mean, it's a classical piano doctorate, but they're minors.
424
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,320
And so if I could do it over again, actually, I would have gone even more left of field
425
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,680
and done something like a business minor or something like that, because I think all musicians,
426
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,800
in fact, most people these days need to be their own entrepreneurs.
427
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,720
Like you need to be your own business person and freelance.
428
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,200
I used to be really scared of it, but really it's...
429
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,440
I think now it's the way, place to be.
430
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,920
Obviously, I would say that because that's what I'm doing.
431
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:51,920
But...
432
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:52,920
You found success with it.
433
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:53,920
Amazing job.
434
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,920
You found a working formula.
435
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,840
Yeah, but at the same time, it would have been handy to have a bit more like structured
436
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,960
grounding instead of just sort of like wildly flailing your way through the landscape.
437
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,560
But what I was studying, the major was classical piano, but the minors were jazz because I've
438
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,480
always been interested in jazz and then music education because I figured I was going to
439
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,440
have to try and find a job somewhere.
440
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,000
Although actually that was probably the most useful mine I took.
441
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,400
And music industry, which meant that it wasn't all just classical.
442
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,960
I spent a bunch of time through the music and music industry streams doing a bunch of
443
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,480
other things that were not classical or jazz.
444
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,640
And that meant that I spent a lot of time doing child education.
445
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,520
I actually volunteered in some nursing homes to provide entertainment for them and things
446
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,720
like that and started doing shows for them on a regular basis.
447
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,200
With the music industry stuff, then we had more formal training with mastering and mixing
448
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,200
and things.
449
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,720
And then the music industry actually has an enviable sort of roster of actual industry
450
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,320
professionals who just happen to come into USC and teach.
451
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
So I picked up a few good tricks from there.
452
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,040
I also learned that I'm never going to be a really good mastering engineer, but you
453
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,440
know, it's good to know what you want to do, what you don't want to do for the course of
454
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,440
the school.
455
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,440
That's a highly specialized...
456
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,440
It's so specialized.
457
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:18,120
You sit there listening to minute fluctuations in the frequency range and trying to make
458
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,120
things sparkle.
459
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,880
And I found that it changed the way I listened to music in a way that, well, it wasn't music
460
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,880
anymore, right?
461
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,560
So I figured I probably wasn't going to be very good at that.
462
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:37,040
But yeah, technically it was mostly classical piano and anything else that came out of it,
463
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,600
most of it was sort of self-directed because I actually, I know why that happened.
464
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:47,200
I was sitting in one of my music education lectures one day and the professor said, who's
465
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,920
going to work in a university?
466
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,920
And literally everybody put up their hand.
467
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,640
I was sitting there looking at the 16 people in the room and I was sitting there going,
468
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,040
there are many universities across this country alone and there are many rooms like this full
469
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,640
of DMA candidates sticking up their hands going, I'm going to work in a university.
470
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,520
And last time I looked at the job postings for universities, there weren't many posts.
471
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,760
So I was like, crap, I got to find something else.
472
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,760
Plan B.
473
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,760
Plan B.
474
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:24,120
Although ironically, I did end up working in a university and I only, I had to make a formal
475
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,720
decision as to whether I would do Twitch or uni at some point.
476
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,720
Yeah.
477
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,200
I went home and faithfully carried out the traditional path because it's a good path
478
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,120
and there's good things about it.
479
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,400
But I just wanted to go and explore a bit more and enjoy my freedom.
480
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,400
Yeah.
481
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:50,000
So, but when you envision yourself, you envisioned yourself when you were young, before you came
482
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:58,440
to the United States, did you think of like doing streaming like you're doing right now?
483
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,440
Or
484
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,440
Yeah.
485
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:07,880
So life is basically, you get dealt a hand of cards and you can only play your cards
486
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,280
in each round according to what you know and what you have.
487
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,580
And that's basically, that's what anyone can do.
488
00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:19,600
So you can't like, so I didn't know what live streaming was until I finished my doctor and
489
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,640
until I was here working in schools.
490
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,220
I worked in universities and I worked in primary and public schools and things like that.
491
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:27,800
These were the best cards I had.
492
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,960
So I played them and I was satisfied with that.
493
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,760
And then Twitch came along and I played that and I didn't know what was going to happen.
494
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,440
It's a bit of a wild card and it's now gone.
495
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,000
It's managed to sustain me for two, three years so far and I don't know when it will
496
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,360
run out, if it will run out.
497
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,560
I don't know what will happen next.
498
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,600
That was the biggest part about career and freelancing and things that was difficult
499
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,360
to get comfortable with.
500
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,120
It's very difficult to get comfortable with.
501
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:01,240
The days where we actually get a job and we sit in the job forever are totally gone.
502
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,840
And actually in this point, if I sat in a job forever, I don't know if I would like
503
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,240
that, I would feel like I'd become part of the world or something like that.
504
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,080
In fact, somebody said that to me when I was finishing my studies.
505
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,200
Both times when I did my bachelor's, I was there for over four years because I was doing
506
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,640
an honours degree.
507
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,240
And then when I went over to USC, I was there for five years as you know.
508
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,280
And in both times, my friends or colleagues or people who were new to the school, they
509
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,840
were like, oh, you're leaving, but you're like part of the furniture.
510
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,400
And something within me, I was like, I don't want to be part of the furniture.
511
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,040
I don't know how I feel about this.
512
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,800
And so I feel like I've become more comfortable with a life of sort of change and what you
513
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,480
could possibly call insecurity.
514
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,800
But I like to think of it as sort of like potential for more, sometimes less.
515
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520
You just have to take it as it comes.
516
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,440
It's a big adventure.
517
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,640
It is a big adventure.
518
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120
And that's part of the game.
519
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,800
So while you were in California, did it really influence you to be who you are, where you
520
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:08,800
are right now?
521
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Or I mean, absolutely.
522
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,800
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
523
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:12,800
I loved California.
524
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,720
It's just that I was a resident alien for tax purposes and I didn't see any prospect
525
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:18,720
of that changing.
526
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,360
So I thought I better go back home where I had like, you know, citizenship rights and
527
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,880
things like that.
528
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,680
And the only way for me to stay in California would have been either to get married, which
529
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,680
wasn't happening.
530
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:32,920
I'm still not married.
531
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:40,160
And for all the viewers out there, we have a little bit to it.
532
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,160
Which viewers?
533
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,160
That's great.
534
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,160
I understand.
535
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Twitch.tv slash Jonathan Ogg.
536
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:52,720
As I was saying, either to, you know, buy marriage or to work as a lecturer in an institution
537
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,960
and then you wouldn't be able to change jobs or anything.
538
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,240
And that seemed to me so, so difficult.
539
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,840
And so I wanted to go home and just figure myself out.
540
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,400
But California was formative.
541
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,800
The degree I got, the degrees I got at USC, I may not be directly applying them, but I
542
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,280
indirectly apply them every day because it becomes part of you.
543
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Something that, something that traumatic, something that formative becomes part of you.
544
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,440
All those papers you write and all those things they force you to think about with philosophy
545
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,800
or music education and development and exposure to things and the things that you're supposed
546
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,960
to teach children.
547
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,840
And as you live those things by teaching children and other students yourself, then you start
548
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,120
thinking, oh, well, these are things I should apply to myself, which is actually part of
549
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,320
the whole thing here.
550
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:50,120
Like I said, the social and physical environment earlier, the needing to grow and to be uncomfortable
551
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:56,800
to sort of like push myself in new directions, trying to just stay out of a rut, essentially.
552
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:57,800
Yeah.
553
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Cause it's very tempting, isn't it?
554
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,280
I'm the most comfortable on stream when I'm playing a song I've played, like a classical
555
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:09,400
piece of song, a classical piece I've played since I was like 10.
556
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,920
And I just sit there playing fantasy impromptu and just chatting because honestly, that is
557
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,560
so deeply ingrained within me.
558
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,280
I could probably be half a vegetable and I'll just put me on the piano and I'll just do
559
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,280
that.
560
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,600
It's the most comfortable I am.
561
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,600
But the challenge of course is to continue growing in some direction.
562
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:35,640
A bit like all the people who we look up to, or I mean, I look up to anyway, anybody who
563
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,400
I've looked up to hasn't really sat there just doing the same thing.
564
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:45,160
They sort of had strived for something and it doesn't necessarily need to be like material
565
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,600
success or anything.
566
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600
It's just being a better you.
567
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:49,600
Sure.
568
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,600
Yeah.
569
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,800
That's, you know, the thing that jumps out to me when you say that is that's been a common
570
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,800
theme on our show with all the guests that we've had on people, you know, some younger,
571
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,240
some older, some quite advanced in their careers doing very well.
572
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,200
Everybody's still looking to grow.
573
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,800
And I just feel like that's such a rare quality, but you know, not in professional musicians.
574
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,440
That's one of the great things about what we do.
575
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,640
It forces us to and then eventually over time we come to need that.
576
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,640
Absolutely.
577
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,320
Actually, I'd think that I would say that we could extrapolate that further.
578
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,520
I think pretty much any industry where you have people who are sort of, you know, doing
579
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:30,600
quite well in it, it requires adaptability and growth and to to to sort of like point
580
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,080
out even contemporary musicians.
581
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,080
And now I have not.
582
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,000
I have only half a leg to stand on with contemporary things because I was a classical musician
583
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,280
who literally lived under a classical rock that was about the size of Mount Vesuvius
584
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,280
or something.
585
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280
It was a huge classical rock.
586
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,680
I only ever started listening to to non classical music when I got my own car and realized the
587
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280
radio tuned to other stations.
588
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200
And it was that it was almost that bad.
589
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,480
I mean, you know, there was some sanctioned things from the parents, but you know how
590
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,800
far that goes.
591
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,920
And it was like, oh, there's all this other music.
592
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,840
But people like Madonna, for example, who has reinvented themselves multiple, multiple
593
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,680
times over the course of their careers or Kylie Minogue.
594
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,720
And like you think about performing and in music industry, the first thing they teach
595
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,240
you is at some point your career will end, but it's just like when.
596
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,600
And for these ladies, for example, they these these they have reinvented themselves so many
597
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,240
times their careers still here.
598
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,960
They're still going.
599
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,720
And that's kind of inspirational.
600
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,800
And you'd find that in many other industries that that's just adaptability.
601
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Right.
602
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120
That ability to reinvent yourself and to stay current.
603
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,600
Prior to Twitch, I was looking at my smartphone and they were talking about how it tracks
604
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,600
you and things.
605
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,560
I was like, hmm, I'll put on my tinfoil hat and like, I'm going to get rid of this thing
606
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,520
and I'm going to buy a dumb phone like a Nokia, go back to the good old days where just just
607
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,840
calls and texts and I'll be fine.
608
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,840
And then I was like, I'm happy with being obsolete in this point.
609
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,840
I like I'm happy.
610
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,120
It just sort of like just.
611
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,080
I'm going to be teaching, going to be lecturing.
612
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,200
I'm just going to be doing serious classical piano.
613
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,560
I am quite happy here.
614
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,240
I'll just stay here.
615
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,400
And clearly that didn't really happen.
616
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,560
But I think we make a deliberate choice, either consciously or subconsciously, we make a deliberate
617
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,360
choice that, yeah, we're tired of keeping up with the new and this is where we are.
618
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,480
And and then that's when we start.
619
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,480
That's when we stop growing, really.
620
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,060
That's when we stop growing and then we just start sort of getting into that really well
621
00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:33,640
worn rut.
622
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,800
So my challenge to myself usually is to try and stay away from that.
623
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,040
Although I tell you why.
624
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,000
It moves real fast, doesn't it?
625
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000
It does.
626
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000
It does.
627
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Yeah.
628
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,000
But yeah, you know, it's a.
629
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,080
I know the feeling that you're talking about.
630
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,680
It's like if you stop moving, you start dying.
631
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,680
You know, absolutely.
632
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,840
That's why all these old sayings you think of that, you know, people just quoted you
633
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,680
as children and you just go and roll your eyes that rolling stone gathers no mosfet.
634
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,000
That's literally what we're doing now.
635
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,480
We're just rolling stones.
636
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960
And this is actually what you guys are doing with the piano pod, like moving with the times,
637
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,440
taking advantage of the fact that we can now actually talk to other people, find people
638
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,920
who like what we do and explore things like this together.
639
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:22,920
It's actually really cool.
640
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,280
Yeah, we're really enjoying it.
641
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,880
Do you encourage other musicians to live stream also?
642
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,920
I mean, right now, you know, it's covid, so everybody is kind of doing live streaming
643
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,880
or recording their own performances.
644
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,320
What do you encourage?
645
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,040
Would you like to encourage younger pianists?
646
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,040
Definitely.
647
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,800
Actually, one of the reasons why my stream was sort of family friendly for a really long
648
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,320
time, I've sort of eased off the word family friendly because it actually excludes people
649
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,280
who don't identify like younger people who don't identify like that.
650
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:02,880
But it's because I want people to realize that there's things you can do with your music,
651
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,120
that there's more there's more avenues for self expression, that music is something that
652
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,960
you should be able to participate in actively as a practicing member, as a practicing musician.
653
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,280
It doesn't have to be Carnegie Hall level classical musicianship.
654
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000
I myself will probably never perform at Carnegie Hall.
655
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,000
I know.
656
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,000
Yeah, really.
657
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,000
To each special.
658
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,000
This is it.
659
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,240
The world will change significantly before that happens, I think.
660
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:34,520
But you know, I mean, it's about showing people that there's different things you can do.
661
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:40,760
There's places you can be that you don't need to be told where and how you can express it.
662
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,760
And Twitch is not even known as a music platform.
663
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,560
Twitch is a gaming platform, technically, or you know, what people people brand it as
664
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,560
one.
665
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,560
But here I am.
666
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,080
And there's a lot of people like me who are doing the same thing.
667
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,880
And it's a lovely community of people who like to share things.
668
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,320
If I even the main thing I would say is that you cannot you cannot go into any of these
669
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,480
things thinking as a business to begin with.
670
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:11,080
Because I think I didn't turn a meaningful revenue until two years in.
671
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,800
So it was all just hardcore passion.
672
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,640
It was like, after work, I'll get home, set up some cameras, set up my microphones, and
673
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:21,640
then I'll go.
674
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,440
And after every stream, I had to pack it away because I was teaching on that instrument
675
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,880
the next morning.
676
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,400
And it was just literally like that for over a year.
677
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,960
It's basically you're being your own startup.
678
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,840
And to live streaming is was it was a is a crazy ride.
679
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:43,520
It was the first it was the first thing I'd done where firstly, you can go backwards between
680
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040
one day and another by like 60 percent.
681
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,500
And then you can just be sitting there in a slump for like months or even a year.
682
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:54,200
And actually happened to me before I changed my timetable to become more healthy.
683
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,640
And and then I just sort of like threw away like two thirds of my audience and just sat
684
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,760
there because I couldn't come to watch anymore.
685
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,840
And then I was I was like going, oh, OK, so now I can't pay my bills anymore.
686
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,320
You know, that kind of thing.
687
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,760
And so you really need to actually love the medium and sort of like what you're doing
688
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,280
on it, because that's the only thing that's going to keep you going long term.
689
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,440
Like with anything, it's sustainability.
690
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,480
The other thing is like there's lots of ways you can express yourself.
691
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,880
And some people will find that they're better at producing really beautiful things on YouTube.
692
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,760
And then you don't have that stress of constantly sitting there and being tied to your machine
693
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,840
for like ages and ages, ages every single day.
694
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,640
And then you can still get interaction.
695
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,840
That's actually I'm not very good at YouTube, sadly.
696
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,600
I would like to be better at it because these are all complementary things.
697
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,880
So I'm not discouraging people from trying to which one I'm saying is if you try to which
698
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,040
and you find it's not for you, then you should try different platforms.
699
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,040
You should try Instagram.
700
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,040
You should try Twitter.
701
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,400
You should try YouTube.
702
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,560
You should try and find things.
703
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,320
These tools, these platforms are there.
704
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,680
They are currently still pretty democratic.
705
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000
They're a bit equal.
706
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,040
They allow us all to have a go.
707
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,080
And you should have a go.
708
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:13,640
We should all have a go because we should not settle here for sitting there and waiting
709
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,880
our turn in the established structures.
710
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,320
That's what I think.
711
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,520
I'm looking at the time.
712
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,560
I think we need to start wrapping it up.
713
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,880
Is there anything else you guys wanted to get to?
714
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,520
I was going to ask, would you ever consider performing again in the concert setting, like
715
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,720
in the concert hall, but you just answered like no Carnegie Hall, you're not interested.
716
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,760
Part of it is because part of it is actually structural.
717
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,560
There's so many things I want to do with I'm actually working on some cover albums.
718
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,480
I've released an original album.
719
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,160
I'm actually sort of like working on improving those things because everything I believe
720
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,640
very much so in experiential learning and development things.
721
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,720
And I know that the more of these I do, the better I'll get at it and then I'll get my
722
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:57,400
workflows down and so on.
723
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,120
So I'm just battling my own inertia actually.
724
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,320
The reason why I don't cover albums already is because sheer inertia.
725
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:11,200
But like part of that with a classical concert, I don't think I'll do classical concerts anymore.
726
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,880
I did work with some people to present series of them before Twitch.
727
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,880
But now this is like post Twitch.
728
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,520
This is current Twitch.
729
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,280
So it's I no longer have the six hours to practice a program every day.
730
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,280
I wouldn't be satisfied.
731
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,280
You're performing.
732
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,440
Yeah, because I'm performing different things now.
733
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,880
So I wouldn't be satisfied with the things that I'll bring in the traditional arena.
734
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,040
I think there are other people who are doing that far better than I can now.
735
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,720
And I've invested myself in this other thing, which is I don't even know what it is, honestly,
736
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,320
but it's fun and I'm having a blast doing it.
737
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:54,000
So I'm just going to keep going with like a blade of glass wherever we go.
738
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,920
I just had a couple of things that I want to address before we all leave.
739
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,560
One thing is that I know you have Asian background and you're from Australia.
740
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,320
You lived in the US.
741
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,760
What is your audience like on Twitch?
742
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,760
Like do you have a huge international?
743
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,760
Yeah, it does change constantly.
744
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,760
Yes.
745
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,320
Twitch gives you statistics for every single stream you do.
746
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,200
So basically almost half of it comes from the US.
747
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:30,440
And then the second biggest one is actually France, which is interesting because I don't
748
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,480
speak French well at all and I never use it on stream.
749
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,640
But Twitch is very big in France and some of the French streamers have come to visit
750
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:41,640
me with their communities.
751
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,240
And so that's why the representation is really high.
752
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:49,320
And then it's like a big smattering all through Europe and Canada is fairly high too.
753
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,080
And then all the way down near the bottom of about seven to nine percent is Australia,
754
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,320
despite me being Australian.
755
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,760
And that's because of the times I stream.
756
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,880
I stream at really weird times for Australians.
757
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:00,880
I see.
758
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,000
Yeah, trying to reach the other continents.
759
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,000
So do you think Twitch is more popular like in certain parts of the world than others?
760
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,000
Definitely.
761
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,720
You're saying there's no in Asia, there's not too many followers at all.
762
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:16,720
Absolutely.
763
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,200
Twitch is sort of like a neophyte in Asia that they're trying to work on.
764
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,880
And actually in Southeast Asia, like in Oceania, like Australia, New Zealand, it's the main
765
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:25,880
one.
766
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,920
But it's also still doesn't really have brand recognition and penetration yet.
767
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,360
It's still what they will consider an up and comer.
768
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,080
So for example, if you lived in Southeast Asia or if you lived in the Middle East or
769
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,440
I think Facebook's actually the place to be.
770
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,120
And I don't know what the stats are for YouTube.
771
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,280
Like I said, that's a black hole to me.
772
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,260
I don't even know Facebook and Twitch.
773
00:42:48,260 --> 00:42:52,340
So depending on where you live in the world, where you're listening to this podcast from,
774
00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:55,280
that may impact on what platform you want to be on as well.
775
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,600
But you should just try all of them.
776
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,080
And you think there's a big community of like classical musicians or you're the only one
777
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,080
right now?
778
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,080
Oh, you know what?
779
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,160
When I first started, I was the only DMA holder on the platform, but I think there's four
780
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,920
or five people who are taking it pretty seriously.
781
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,760
And then there's like, there's some really crazy CVs on there.
782
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:24,200
There's a man who, Takayoshi, he's actually educated.
783
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,560
He's got a degree from the Mozartium of Salzburg and he plays harp and he plays piano and he
784
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,520
says he plays piano badly, but it's a professional level.
785
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,760
And it's all extremely polished.
786
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,320
You can find something you like.
787
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,400
People practice on the platform on Twitch while they're getting ready for their IRL
788
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,680
gigs and things like that.
789
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,560
If you like serious classical piano, there's people who focus on that specifically.
790
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:52,400
I used to have, I think the standard just keeps going higher because it's a global thing.
791
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,480
So anything that's global, you kind of have to sort of, you know, again, keep adapting.
792
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,680
And so I think I don't even have the only concert grand on the platform.
793
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,320
There's actually two and there may be more in the near future.
794
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,560
So, you know, it just, it keeps moving.
795
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:13,360
And so as the platform keeps developing and the community within it keeps developing,
796
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,000
more and more of this stuff will actually become very normal.
797
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,520
I think I very normal.
798
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,720
I'm just sort of like a little bit ahead of the curve on throwing all my money into a
799
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,720
giant technological pit.
800
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,120
It's time for rapid fire questions.
801
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,920
All right, fast enough for this, here we go.
802
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,760
It's a rapid fire.
803
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,880
So you're going to go chop chop chop quickly.
804
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,880
All right.
805
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Are we ready?
806
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,880
The first question.
807
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,400
So what is your favorite food?
808
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,400
Fish.
809
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,600
Cats or dog?
810
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,600
Dog.
811
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,000
All right.
812
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,560
What is your word to or words to live by?
813
00:44:54,560 --> 00:45:00,360
If you're, if you're, hang on, wait, my mouth got stuck.
814
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,320
Words to live by.
815
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,960
If you're too comfortable, you can't grow.
816
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,560
What is the most important quality you look for in people?
817
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,560
Just being genuine.
818
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,600
You want them to be genuine.
819
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,560
You won't always like who they are, but at least you know who they are.
820
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Exactly.
821
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,560
Yes.
822
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,320
So as opposed to that, what is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?
823
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,640
Well, clearly like when you can't trust what anything they said, a lack of an ability to
824
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:32,640
trust them.
825
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,640
So untrustworthiness.
826
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,640
Very cool.
827
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,640
All right.
828
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,840
We're going to keep on going.
829
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,440
Name three people who inspire you living or dead.
830
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:46,280
There's a lady called Dr. Sheila Woodward and Dr. Christine Logan.
831
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,720
These are mentors of mine who've really had a massive shape shaping on my career.
832
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:56,280
And I would say Pablo Casals, although he's just springing to mind because I keep remembering
833
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,760
this one anecdote where they say, why are you still practicing at the age of 80 something?
834
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,760
And he goes, because I think I'm still getting better.
835
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,760
That's a huge one.
836
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:05,760
That's a great one.
837
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:06,760
I love that one.
838
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:07,760
That is really cool.
839
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:08,760
All right.
840
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:15,320
Now being 83 years old, not that so old, which historic figure, composer, or do you want
841
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,880
to learn or take lessons from if she or he were alive?
842
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:26,160
Franz Liszt, because so much of the stuff we do is firecracker technique and stuff like
843
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,160
that.
844
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,520
He's the man who just married all of them together.
845
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Oh my gosh.
846
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,040
So many people use Franz Liszt.
847
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,840
Which historic figure do you want to hang out with at the bar if he or she were alive?
848
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:38,840
Okay.
849
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,520
This one's a bit weird.
850
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,800
The first person that came to mind was George Washington.
851
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:45,800
Cool.
852
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,880
I think it's a more than one dimension, one and a half dimension.
853
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,880
I guess you're not going to be eating a lot of corn nuts with his wooden teeth.
854
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:56,880
That's funny.
855
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:57,880
Oh no.
856
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,160
And the last one, what other instrument would you like to be able to play besides piano?
857
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,160
Actually violin.
858
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,160
Oh.
859
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,160
All right.
860
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,160
My turn.
861
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,920
Name one piece in your current playlist.
862
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:16,640
Spirited Away for a Price, which is also known as Chihiro's Waltz by Joe Hisaishi.
863
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:17,720
Okay.
864
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:21,640
What about a book title you're currently reading?
865
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,400
I've just taken delivery of How to Be a Master Negotiator.
866
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:26,400
Okay.
867
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,880
Oh, I heard of that book.
868
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,280
This question always annoys people.
869
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,560
You only get one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life.
870
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:35,560
What is it?
871
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:36,560
Muse, Exogenesis, Symphony.
872
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,480
It's in three parts, so hopefully that counts.
873
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:41,480
Okay.
874
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,000
We'll take it.
875
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,120
And fill in the blank.
876
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,120
Music is blank.
877
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,120
Oh my God.
878
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,440
You just evoked my music philosophy course.
879
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,440
Music is organized noise.
880
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:53,440
Organized noise.
881
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,440
Yeah.
882
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,440
Organized noise.
883
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,440
Good one.
884
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,120
I'm sure you could expand on that for another whole podcast.
885
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,120
That's right.
886
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,120
Probably.
887
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,120
Next time.
888
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,800
I think that's one of the best things that came out of the doctorate was the ability to
889
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,600
just talk about things for way too long.
890
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,520
Well, we have enjoyed every word.
891
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,520
Yes.
892
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,520
I've enjoyed being here.
893
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,520
Thanks so much, guys.
894
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,800
Thank you, Jonathan, for joining our show today.
895
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,400
And thank you to the audience for tuning in.
896
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,360
If you enjoyed today's episode, please read and review on whatever podcasting platform
897
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,360
you use.
898
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:33,240
If you are watching it from YouTube, please hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe
899
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:34,640
to our channel.
900
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,120
You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
901
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,400
The links are in the description below.
902
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:48,760
If you have any feedback for us, please leave it in the comment section or direct messages
903
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,380
via social media.
904
00:48:50,380 --> 00:48:54,560
Or you can also email us at the pianopodnyc at gmail.com.
905
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,520
Hope to see you all for the next episode of the PianoPod.
906
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,520
Bye, everybody.
907
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,520
Bye.
908
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,520
Thank you so much, Jonathan.
909
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,520
Thank you.
910
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:16,720
Thank you.