Dr. Cassandra Vieten | Healing the Mind by Coming Home to the Body

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We are definitely born into this world with a temperamental
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biological genetic makeup that significantly influences how we view the world.
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If you come into the world with altered dopamine processing
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or altered serotonin processing, you are already going to have
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greater likelihood that somebody pulls in front of you and
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they start slowing down, and you're going to be like,
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what the heck is wrong with this guy? You know,
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why is he in my way? And you more likely
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to personalize it, more likely to view it negatively, more
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likely to tell a negative story about it. And whereas
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somebody else might be born into this world with the
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genetics that have them look at that same experience and say, ooh,
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that guy must be having a hard day. Let me
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back off a little bit.
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Welcome to the Radical Responsibility Podcast. I'm doctor Fleet Maul,
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and I'm excited to guide you on a journey of
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authentic transformation. In each episode, I'll bring you insights from
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leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfulness practices, positive psychology,
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and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness and life optimization. This
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is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change,
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helping you find alignment with the person you are always
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meant to be. Let's get started. What if transformation isn't
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just about thinking differently, but feeling differently. Science shows us
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that true change happens when we align not just our minds,
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but also the neural networks in our hearts and guts.
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This heart mind connection is the key to deeper healing, resilience,
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and expanded awareness. That's why I created the Heart Mind
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All Access, membership and community, a space designed to help
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you rewire your nervous system, cultivate heart intelligence, and live
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with greater clarity and purpose. With over one thousand hours
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of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs. You'll
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learn from world renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists, and experts in neuroplasticity,
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all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset
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and heartset, regulate your emotions, and unlock your full potential.
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You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course
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we've ever produced, a treasure Trouble Wisdom worth over ten
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thousand dollars in growing plus live gatherings, and an inspiring
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global community to support your journey. If you're ready to
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step into a more heart centered, connected and conscious life.
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I invite you to join us. Clip the link to
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learn more and start your journey today. Have you ever
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wondered what might happen if we treated mental help not
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as a fixed state, but as a skill. In today's episode,
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I have the privilege of sitting down with doctor Cassandra Veaton,
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a trailblazer in the fields of psychology, mindfulness, and integrative medicine.
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Cassandra brings a rare depth of insight drawn from decades
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of clinical research and real world application, including her leadership
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at the Center for Mindfulness at uc San Diego and
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her pioneering work with mind body interventions, psychedelics, and even
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virtual reality for healing. Together, we explore how mental well
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being is not just a matter of diagnosing and treating symptoms,
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but of cultivating the internal conditions that make transformation possible
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from the inside out. Cassandra shares how mindfulness and spiritual
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practices can be woven into clinical frameworks and why identity,
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when unexamined, can become one of the greatest obstacles to change.
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This conversation is an invitation to step beyond resistance into
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acceptance and into a more expansive vision of who we
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are becoming. Let's dive in. Min name is doctor Fleet Maull,
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your co host for this session, and I'm really happy
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to be here today with doctor Cassandra of each and
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welcome doctor.
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It's great to be with you again.
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So today we're exploring really the power of our beliefs,
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both conscious and unconscious, to influence how we perceive the world,
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what we make of it, the meeting we add to it,
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our reaction to our behaviors, and many sense, the results
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we create manifest in our lives. So let's start by
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exploring your work in the mind body medicine field. So
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I wonder if you could describe mind body medicine for
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us a little bit and what role beliefs plan that
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or what role mind body medicine can play in transforming
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limiting core beliefs to more life enhancing our life confirming beliefs.
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Yeah, well, thank you. I mean I would say that
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mind body medicine is just medical care, regular medical care,
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but unfortunately, the way that conventional medical care in the
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West is performed right now, particularly in the United States,
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is a much more biologically oriented type of care. Which
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is good. I mean that movement towards biology and measurement
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from superstition was a very good one about four or
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five six hundred years ago, one thousand years ago. But
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the pendulum at this point has gone a little bit
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too far in that direction, ignoring the effects of the
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mind or belief systems on the body. And what I
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mean by that is not that people don't know about it,
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because everybody knows about it. It's just that it's not
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emphasized in treatments. So a good example I like to
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share is I had a friend not too long ago
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who had a liver disease, and she went to her doctor,
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and she was someone who exercised and had good nutrition,
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and he gave her some medication, and she said, is
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there anything else I can do about this? And he said, no,
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not really, just come back in six months. And I
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don't think that's true. I think there are a lot
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of things that she could do to help her body
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activate its own innate, salutogenic or healing oriented response, including
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things like mindfulness, reducing stress, changing belief systems, guided visualization.
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There's tons of evidence now that what we think and
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what we pay attention to, what we believe what we
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visualize has actual biological effects on our bodies, on our brains,
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on our hormones, on our gene expression, not only the
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functioning of our brains and bodies, but even the structure.
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Over not too long a period of time. Evidence shows that,
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for example, a daily mindfulness practice for only about twenty
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to thirty minutes a day has effects on the brain,
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including things like neurogenesis and thickening of the cortex. And
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so there really is no separation between mind and body,
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and we just need to, I think, rebalance and say, yes,
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we do need to address these issues biologically, but we
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also need to address them in the realm of what
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we think and imagine and believe.
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And so we know today that most chronic illnesses. We
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can look at this both in terms of healing illness
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as well as optimizing health and wellbeing. Right, but in
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terms of illnesses, we know most chronic illnesses arise from
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some kind of systemic inflammation, which is really has to
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do with our mind states, right, chronic stress, which is
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related the mind states and other things that, as you said,
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impact gene expression. What we know today about epigenetics and
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so forth. So our mind states are all important, and
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our beliefs have a lot of impact on our mind
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state because what we believe about ourselves and the world
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influences how we interpret what we're experiencing, and then that
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can lead to states of chronic stress, or it can
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lead to states of mind states or hard sets that
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support more harmonious or kind of a balanced way of
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being with our lives. So I wonder if we could
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explore a little bit your sense of the connection between
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beliefs and how the mind then influences health for better
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or worse.
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Yeah, I mean, it's really a bidirectional, it's really completely blended.
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But let's say for now there are two polls. It's
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bidirectional that the body in biology affects the mind in
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very profound ways. And you know, if you have less
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circulating serotonin, you are definitely going to feel less happy,
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less less of the feeling of everything's going to be okay,
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or I'm a generally good person, or I live in
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a generally good world. So for sure, biology affects the mind.
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There's no question, and I am absolutely not against biological
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treatments that the mind also affects the body, and so
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it really needs to be addressed at both levels, and
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it really should be more like a three legged stool.
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That there's the environment. So your beliefs and worldviews and
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what you imagine and visualize affects your body. Your body
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affects your mind and what you believe and how you
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talk to yourself, and then all of that is encompassed
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with your environment. And there's also a little bit less
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attention to creating a healing environment than I think there
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should be. That can go anywhere from changing your room
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to one that when you wake up you feel happy,
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you know, painting the colors in your room and having
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things on your bedside table and putting your phone outside
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of your room or outside of reach while you're sleeping,
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and all those kinds of the people you hang out with,
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the TV shows you watched, what you listen to, what
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you read, all of those things in your environment affect
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both mind and body. And so it's really important that
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we start to look at this more holistically and say,
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when I'm feeling out of sorts or when I'm feeling ill,
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what is going on with my physiology? What is going
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on with my mind and my beliefs, my story, my narrative,
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and what's going on in my environment and really address
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all three.
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You've spoken about a kind of malehealth renaissance that were
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in these days with innovative approaches and mental health including
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psychoicasists of therapies, cold exposure, various kinds of energy medicine,
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mind training, mindfulness, and so forth. So I wonder how
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this kind of movement, this mental health renaissance, challenges some
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of our older beliefs about mental health and what dominated
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the field of psychiatry and where that could be leading us.
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The mental health renaissance I like to talk about because
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we talk a lot about the mental health crisis, and
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if you read the news and listen to the news
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and everything, all you hear about is the epidemic of
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loneliness and the depression and anxiety, and all those things
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are true. There's definitely a major crisis happening, and it's
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really good that people are talking about it more than
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they used to talk about it and stating the truth
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about what is so about the poor state of mental
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health and across our world right now. But at the
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same time, there is this very there's reason for optimism
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because there's a big wave of mental health treatments that
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are going far beyond antidepressants, going far beyond our previous
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ideas of talk therapy, sitting in a room and talking
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to someone. Now, both of those have helped me considerably
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throughout my life, and they help a lot of other people,
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So I'm not putting them down. But what we need
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to add to those is all of these other ways
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that you can sort of hack the system. You know,
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hot and cold exposure you mentioned. There's some really good
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data showing that exposing yourself to a cold bath or
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an ice bath, exposing yourself to heat, either a hot
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tub or a hot sauna, or alternating between the two,
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has substantial effects on mood and well being. We've already
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mentioned mindfulness, just simply sitting paying attention to your breathing
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and your body sensations, practicing that for about twenty minutes
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a day, doing it in a particular way with kindness, openness, compassionness,
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Practicing that and learning it and allowing yourself to witness
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your train of thought. Teaching yourself to witness your body's
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sensations and your thoughts as opposed to being completely fused
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with them, turns out to be an incredibly powerful antidepressant
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anti anxiety because you might still have those feelings arise
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or those thoughts arise, but there's a part of you
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that's witnessing arising, and that part of you that's witnessing
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is not itself in the depression or anxiety. And so
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more and more people learn to say, well, I'm having
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some depressive thoughts, but I don't feel miserable. I'm not suffering,
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and that is a big change. Another you mentioned is psychedelics,
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that we are beginning to carefully, thoughtfully use these agents
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that have been used for millennia to shift people's perspectives
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and to give them insights, to be able to help
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people break outside of their narrow box of thinking, come
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up with new ideas and insights about things that may
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have plagued them throughout their entire lives, and then when
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they come back from that altered state of consciousness with
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help from another person, typically integrating those new insights and saying, Okay, well,
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if this belief I had about myself my whole entire
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life is not true and I just had an embodied
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experience in an altered state of consciousness, not only that
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it's not true, but that belief has been harming me.
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And decided to let it go. It's amazing how sometimes
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those sessions, only one session, can be completely life changing,
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and that once you've had that insight, it's hard to unhabit.
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It stays with you.
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Yeah, I think it's really fascinating how psycholic experiences properly
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held can really illuminate mindsets and belief structures that have
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been creating a lot of our own suffering. And yeah,
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we see it clearly enough that we have possibly actually
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letting that go. We both see how their negative influence
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on a life, and we see they're kind of untruth
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or at least they're just one possible narrative and obviously
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something that's malleable and changeable. So that's quite fascinating. You
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also mentioned the hot and cold exposure. I haven't invested
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in a cold plunge tub yet, but I have been
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doing cold showers for several years religiously every morning, and
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I do think it's very helpful.
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You know, we've mentioned some more extreme practices, but even
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less extreme, just being out in nature for a particular
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amount of time every day or every week, paying attention
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to spending time with loved ones, and being fully present
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while you're spending the time with the loved ones, engaging
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in specific times of day, or you know, setting aside
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time for exploration of your spiritual practices or religious practices,
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or if you're not a spiritual or religious person, existential
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contemplation about humanistic values that are important to you. Truth, beauty, justice, honesty, gratitude, journaling, art, creativity,
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being of service. There's an entire world out there of
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things that you can engage in that do change the
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way you think, the way you view yourself, the way
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you view the world, and your brain and your body.
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Absolutely, and it's biotic, may be more tragic in some
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cases that as you mentioned, there's a lot of challenges
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in our world today where people talk about the poly crisis.
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There's so many crises going on, as well as the
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existential threat of human caused climate change that creates a
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lot of anxiety for a lot of us. And there
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does seem to be an epidemic of anxiety and depression
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and suicidality and so forth. And at the same time,
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we've never had access to more tools that would support
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healing and support optimizing our health and wellbeing. And I mean,
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any of these tools have been around forever, but there's
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more information about them. Ever, now there's a lot of
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research demonstrating how and why they work, and then there's
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new tools that have been developed, and so it's kind
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of an interesting time that we have all this available
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to us, and I guess it's what we really need
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is in wider public education, which is really the purpose
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of these summits, so that people will begin making use
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of these tools to address, you know, what's really been
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going on societally, which is, you know, maybe the news
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sends uspen it to the negative a bit, but it
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is pretty widespread the suffering that's happening for people. So
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but the good news is we know how to address it.
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A couple things I didn't even mention yet are exercise
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and nutrition. And so I was trained as a psychologist,
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a clinical psychologist, and me and most of my colleagues
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were not trained at all in any form of how
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exercise affects the mood or the brain, or the thinking patterns,
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or nutrition. So it's really unfortunate that somebody can go
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in for mental health treatment and get treatment for years
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and never once have the involvement of a physical trainer
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or a nutritionist. You know, those kinds of divides still exist.
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And I've been working with the John W. Brick Mental
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Health Foundation for quite a while now, and this is
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one thing that they're trying to break down, is the
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divide between the exercise world and the mental health world.
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And I think there's going to be some really interesting
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things happening in that domain. For example, they just created
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a certification program for fitness professionals to be mental health informed,
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and the next step will be to create a certification
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program for mental health professionals to be movement informed. And
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so building those bridges is very important, really important.
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I've often felt that one of the best things a
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therapist or a psychiatrist could do, rather than sitting in
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a small room with their patient and then prescribing if something,
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would be to go out and go for a walk together,
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to a walk. You've also been involved in virtual reality,
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virtual reality tools that can help with perspective in the
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same way that maybe psycholic experiences would create a perspective
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shift or a shift in consciousness, that there are virtual
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reality tools that can do. So I want if you
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share your experience with that.
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Yeah, well, I mean I've been just kind of obsessed
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throughout my career with how can we shift people's perspectives.
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How can we help them see new possibilities that allow
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them to be kinder to themselves and others and the planet.
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And there's a really good reason why we have fixed beliefs.
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It has to do with cognitive efficiency. And so one
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of the ways we move through the world as we
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are born and you are raised and get older is
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we create these cognitive categories and we say, okay, this
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is like this, this is like this, this is like this.
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We do it based on similarity and difference. So and
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then we do it based on what we like and
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what we don't like, what causes pleasure, what causes pain.
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And they're kind of pretty binary things, you know, is
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it good? Is it bad? Do I like it? Do
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I not like it? Is it this or is it bad?
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Is it like me or is it not like me?
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So that's kind of how the computer of our brain works.
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And it's really good because otherwise we'd walk through wake
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up every day and have to relearn everything every single day.
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So we don't want that. The problem is when they
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get so fixed and so rigid that they're driving our lives,
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either consciously or unconsciously, and they're driving us to engage
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in thought patterns and behaviors that are not good for us,
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they're not good for our loved ones, they're not good
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for the planet. And so trying to shake up those rigid,
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concretized beliefs is a big trick because the brain is
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wired to not have those shaken up. It's immune to
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change in a way. So what we need to do
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often is have some kind of a profound experience that
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shifts our perspective, and that can come from a spiritual experience.
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Mentioned it's fairly reliable actually that it would come from
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a psilocybin session, and even better with preparation, with somebody
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sitting with you, with integration afterwards, and it doesn't necessarily
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change people for in a lasting way. You still have
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to engage in practices after you've had one of those
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Aha moments that help you to integrate it into your life.
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Otherwise you might be stuck just searching for that Aha
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moment over and over again and still kind of being
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a jerk on the freeway, and you know, not doing
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behaviors to help change yourself for the planet. So you've
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got to follow up those big moments with practice. But
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this is a long answer to say that one of
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the things I got really interested in was virtual reality,
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which I do work with pretty often. This is my
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little headset in my office. And when I first got
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introduced to virtual reality, I did an experience in kind
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of a big open space and I put on the
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headset and the people had created a full or that
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you walk across in the virtual world, and it looked
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kind of like a cartoon. So it's just a metal
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floor that you're walking across, and then all of a sudden,
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either side of you falls four stories and you're on
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a tiny plank that you're walking. And so immediately my
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whole entire body gets a cold sweat, you know, I'm like,
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oh my gosh. And then they say, turn to your
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left and now just simply walk off the plank, allow
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yourself to fall the four stories in virtual reality. And
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I could not do it. I could not get my
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body to do it. And my heart is beating, you know,
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my nervous system is completely activated. And the first thought
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I had was, Oh, my gosh, this is going to work,
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Like this is going to work to help people have
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experiences that change their perspective. It's powerful enough, and the
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illusion is powerful enough that I think it can do something.
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We know it can do something biologically because I'm sweating
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right now, my heart is eating fast. So anyway, we've
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created several virtual reality experiences. One is taking people into space,
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having them wake up on the Moon basically and come
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back to the Earth from the Moon in a space capsule.
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This was a collaboration with the Institute of This is
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produced by the Institute of Nordic Sciences using real NASA
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footage and audio, as well as edgar Mitchell, who was
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the sixth person to walk on the Moon and the
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founder of the Institute of Nordic Sciences, who has passed
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away since, using his narration of what it was like
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for him to go back to the Earth from space.
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So beautiful music, and it's really trying to give people
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at least an echo of what we call the overview
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effect that astronauts experience when they look at the Earth
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from space and they see there are no boundaries between
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countries and they have an increased social consciousness. They feel
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much more convinced that we are all one species on
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this planet, and even that the entire planet is an
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interconnected hole. Everyone deserves life and love, and that there's
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when you look at the Earth from space, it's so
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small in this vast billions of miles of blackness that
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you become much more interested in making sure that you
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care for it and that we preserve it and many
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other things. And so we're trying to give people that
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experience in space. We also take people into VR and
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teach them how to meditate and self compassion practices in
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highly conducive environments like a you know, island resort where
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there's a beautiful meditation room with birds and waves and
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a bamboo forest and you know. So these are conditions.
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As I mentioned before, the environment is important, and so
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these are conditions where you can give someone an a
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losory environment and make it easier for them to be
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able to learn metaditation and self compassion. And then ideally
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when they come back to ordinary reality, they have had
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that a little bit of that insight and they're able
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to translate it into their everyday lives.
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Are any of these virtual reality programs publicly available?
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Yeah, there's the edgar Mitchell VR experience is on Steam,
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which is one of the most popular virtual reality stores
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on the internet. So if you go to Steam and
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look up edgar Mitchell VR experience. You can also just
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watch it on YouTube. But two D if you want
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to know what it's like. The other one, compassion Island
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we call it, is in a platform called vr chat,
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which is open source. And maybe after this I can
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give you the way that people can get into it.
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You can put it with my bio. But we're using
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these in experiments. We're looking at people's biology, their heart
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rate variability, their self reports of how they feel before
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and after, behavioral measures where them go through tasks online
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and see if it changes their perception or their responses
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or reactions. And it's a fascinating field of study, but
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it's all focused on how do we shift people out
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of those rigid perspectives, those very fixed perspectives that can
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be harmful.
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Well, it's really fascinating. And that experience you had being
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on the plank being willing to step off that plank
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reminds me of doing a firewalk, which I did do
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one time.
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Yeah, really shifts your mind about what's possible.
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Yeah, So I wonder if we could talk for a
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moment about the relationship between beliefs and what are sometimes
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called limiting core beliefs and how we transform those so one,
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maybe taking a psychological perspective, you can develop more awareness
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around limiting core beliefs that you may have, paying attention
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to your self talk or by other means, and then
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begin to look at those and see whether they were
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all formed in our childhood. None of us escape childhood
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without some of them. You can see them as maybe
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reasonable things that we came up with at one point
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or not to interpret our world, to make sense the world,
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or even to keep ourselves safe. But then we can
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look at them, are they currently serving us or not?
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Or are they back really decidedly not serving us? You know,
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look the ways to deconstruct them, no longer believe in them,
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replace them with other beliefs, so we could kind of
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directly address the beliefs and try to change them directly.
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But you also mentioned all the things we can be
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doing for our health and well being, diet and exercise
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and proper breathing and hydration, mindfuluence practices, and some of
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these other things like cold and hot exposure and psychaic experiences,
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these virtual reality experiences and some of these experiences. I'm
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curious if you feel just engaging more that might almost
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organically begin to shift some of our perspectives and beliefs,
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we might just kind of organically develop a more positive
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view about ourselves in the world, because a lot of
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the limiting core beliefs basically have to do it with
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feeling like all the ways in which I'm not enough,
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and then all the ways in which there's not enough
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of what's desirable to go around, you know, love and
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land and wealth and fame and respect and all that,
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and therefore we have this fear based view of the world.
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You know, I'm probably not good enough to get it,
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and there's not enough of it, and so I'm in
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this constant struggle. And so I'm wondering if these two
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different approaches maybe to transforming those polats, one kind of
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directly identifying specific limiting core beliefs and looking to deconstruct
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them or change them or replace them, and the other
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way they might just kind of organically begin to ship
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by engaging in these health and wellbeing activities.
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Yeah, definitely. I mean, I teach a workshop at the
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Essallent Institute called How We Change and Why We Don't,
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and that is a workshop that is very focused on
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translating what we've learned about ways that people do change
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their core story, and some of it is surprising. And
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as number one I would say about what you said,
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not all of them come from childhood. We are definitely
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born into this world with a temperamental biological genetic makeup
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that significantly influences how we view the world. So if
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you come into the world with altered dopamine processing or
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altered serotonin processing, you are already going to have the
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greater likelihood that somebody pulls in front of you and
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they start slowing down, and you're going to be like,
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what the heck is wrong with this guy? You know,
481
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:43.519
why is he in my way? And you more likely
482
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.319
to personalize it, more likely to view it negatively, more
483
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:50.000
likely to tell a negative story about it. And whereas
484
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.960
somebody else might be born into this world with the
485
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:58.000
genetics that have them look at that same experience and say, ooh,
486
00:28:58.039 --> 00:28:59.640
that guy must be having a hard day. Let me
487
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:01.400
back up a little bit. You know, it's just a
488
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.440
different personality.
489
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.960
Well, genetic inheritances that you're describing there that may set
490
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.960
us up to have a more positive or less helpful
491
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:12.599
neurochemical Yeah, well, Kent City, those can also be sort
492
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:14.359
of epigenetic factors.
493
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.640
Right, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, you can come in with like
494
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:24.000
an increased sensitivity, which could lead to you being very
495
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.599
empathic and loving and caring, or could lead to you
496
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:32.200
if you have negative childhood experiences, could lead to you
497
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.039
being sensitive in a way that's not helpful, you know,
498
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.400
easily offended and reactive. But I think it's really important
499
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.400
for all of us to just sort of say, like, hey,
500
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.920
I was dealt a hand of cards when I got here,
501
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.880
and then whatever happened in my childhood and in my upbringing,
502
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.240
not only through my parents and family, but through society itself,
503
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.599
through religion, through culture, through socioeconomic status, through media. I
504
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.359
mean a million things right have built where I am today,
505
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.519
my own experiences, my culture, what was passed down to me,
506
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:09.640
intergenerational traumas and intergenerational blessings and privilege. And so here
507
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:17.559
you are, with this beautiful, messy, wonderful, icky ball of
508
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:20.440
yarn that you are. You know, let's say what you
509
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.319
want to do with that ball of yarn is weave
510
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:25.240
it into a tapestry that is your life. And so
511
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:28.240
the second thing I would say is there's been a
512
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:32.079
lot of focus on letting go of beliefs that don't
513
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:35.960
serve you or getting rid of things inside of you
514
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.680
that you don't like. And I tend to teach something
515
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.839
that's called radical inclusion, which is that every aspect of yourself,
516
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:50.319
no matter how negative, no matter how difficult, is welcome.
517
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.039
That it is a part of you that gets to stay.
518
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:58.240
And the difference is that it may not be allowed
519
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.559
to take the driver's seat anymore. So you might say,
520
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:03.400
I have a part of me that tends to be
521
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.680
very self critical. It'll tell me that I'm all the
522
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.640
things that you were just saying. You know, I'm worthless,
523
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.000
I'm not good enough, I'm not this, I'm not that.
524
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.279
And when that voice starts to speak up, I notice
525
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.960
that it's talking and I say, oh, there's that voice again.
526
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.759
I know that one so well. And I say, come
527
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.720
on over here, sit next to me. I got you.
528
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.000
You know, I'm going to put my arm around you.
529
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.759
You're going to sit right next to me, and you're
530
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.920
not going to drive the car. And I understand when
531
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.279
you feel insecure, when you feel like you're not worth it.
532
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.400
Let's do all the things that we know counteract that feeling,
533
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.039
which is everything you and I just talked about being
534
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.079
in nature and being with friends and doing our practices,
535
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.839
writing and journaling, and a million different things. Being able
536
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.240
to begin to not only tolerate, but welcome and even
537
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.480
love those parts of yourself with a kind compassion, but
538
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:02.359
also with a firm boundary compassion that says you get
539
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.559
to stay, but you don't get to drive. That's one thing.
540
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:10.000
Another thing is, just as you said, one of the
541
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:14.599
things we've found is that very often addressing an issue
542
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.880
in your life head on or directly doesn't work. You know,
543
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.759
let's say you have trouble with overeating, or you have
544
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:26.200
trouble with finding difficult relationships, or you have trouble manifesting
545
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.640
the job that you want to have, and many other things.
546
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.599
You could keep hammering away on that weakness or that
547
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:35.000
difficulty of yours for years, and it may not ever
548
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.000
go anywhere, because you're in a locked battle between a
549
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.079
couple parts of yourself. But what you can do is
550
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:49.680
make your internal and external environment less hospitable to the
551
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.599
way of being that you don't want and more hospitable
552
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.759
to the way of being that you do want. And
553
00:32:54.839 --> 00:33:00.359
so it's called creating the conditions, and that's inside. How
554
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.680
do I create my internal conditions that are less hospitable
555
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.759
to the ways of being that I don't want and
556
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.200
more hospitable to the ways of being that I do want.
557
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.440
What makes it more likely that I'm going to be
558
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:13.240
the way I want to be. So let's say that
559
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:17.079
I really want to exercise in my life, and so
560
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.599
one thing that might make it more possible is if
561
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.799
I lay out a yoga matt with weights with stretchy bands,
562
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:29.640
with a table that has my laptop on it that
563
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.880
I plug in the night before, I bring up the
564
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.640
exercise video I want to do, so that when I
565
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.720
wake up, I get a drink, I take care of myself,
566
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.000
and then I hop onto that mat and do it.
567
00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:43.720
So much more likely than if I'm sitting in bed
568
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.279
with my phone going, oh God, I wish I would
569
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.680
get out my exercise stuff this morning. That's a silly example,
570
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.599
that's a superficial example, but it's actually not because if
571
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:55.640
you did it, and you did it for twenty minutes
572
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.640
every morning, it would change your entire life, your mood,
573
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.160
your hormone, your neurotransmitters. And so that's the third thing
574
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.440
I guess I would say is small changes. What you
575
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:11.800
know that book Atomic Habits, Small changes really make a
576
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:16.039
gigantic difference. We all have this belief that, you know,
577
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.239
if I don't go to meditating for an hour every day,
578
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:21.800
that I'm not really doing it. It's not true. Five
579
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.679
minutes a day at the beginning, seven minutes, eight minutes,
580
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.079
nine minutes. If you can get yourself up to fourteen
581
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.239
minutes a day, your life will change. And so really
582
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:35.920
paying attention to those small changes that make big differences, this.
583
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.360
Is incredibly helpful. What you've really been talking about is
584
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.400
strategies for change now and your reference taking this more
585
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.599
acceptance based approach, and we've learned from the field of
586
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.559
mindfluence with mindfluence based well general mindfluance altogether, the importance
587
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.119
of the attitudinal qualities that John Cabutain emphasises, for example,
588
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:58.360
but also modalities like acceptance commitment therapy and dialectical behavioral
589
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.840
therapy rather than that old their style of cognitive behavioral
590
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:04.840
that you know, let's just replace the bad thoughts with
591
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.840
good thoughts, so kind of almost doing surgery on yourself.
592
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.039
It's more this acceptance approach which tends to then lessen
593
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.880
the influence of those more negative thought patterns of beliefs
594
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:18.119
on us and gives us more space in order to
595
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.119
make different decisions. And then also it sounded like you
596
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:24.599
were referencing with the parts, you know, voice, dialogue and
597
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:28.440
internal Yeah, and you know the sportsbook there are no
598
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.000
bad parts. So again the yeah albtance approach.
599
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.599
Yeah, yeah, I find it very powerful, and you know
600
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.960
it's for many people, it's paradoxical. You know, they've been
601
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.960
trying to wrestle these things to the map their whole life.
602
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.719
They've been trying to kick them out and eliminate them forever.
603
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:46.480
And when they finally say, you know, this is not
604
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.880
a thing that you need to eliminate. In fact, bring
605
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:52.719
it closer, be examine it more closely, be curious about it,
606
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:56.039
be fascinated by it, you know, and those inner parts
607
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.880
of us that have been trying often to protect us
608
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.599
in a weird way, once they start to get listened to,
609
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.119
and you know, there's a Tibetan practice called feeding your demons.
610
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.239
Sometimes you need to make deals with those inner voices
611
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:11.000
and say, look, you don't get to do that, but
612
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.880
what is one thing that would help you, What is
613
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.800
one thing that would allow you to allow me to
614
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.440
be this different way? And they say, well, you know,
615
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:23.760
if I could have a hot fudge Sunday once a week,
616
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.440
I would feel much better about letting you do this,
617
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.960
you know, plant based diet that you want to do,
618
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:33.519
and you're like, okay, deal, you know, let's do it right.
619
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.760
So you can work with the parts of yourself and
620
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.960
instead of continuing to fight with them, continuing to try
621
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.719
to wrestle them to the mat, most of them are
622
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.960
not ever going to give up. There. We have this
623
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.000
built in immunity to change. I mean, you know, I
624
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:50.800
think if you can change a belief system inside of you,
625
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.880
knock yourself out. Like I would say, one example in
626
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.320
my own life was, and this happened in part through
627
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:01.360
psychedelic journeys, is you know, I'm a curvy person. I'm
628
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.440
five feet tall, I'm curby. My entire family is you know,
629
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:08.800
back to who knows how long ago is curvy. And
630
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:11.840
I didn't realize until I took a psychedelic journey that
631
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.320
I had really been so ashamed of my body, just
632
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:21.079
so mad at myself and so much like you know,
633
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.000
you should be slim. That's the only way to be
634
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:27.159
healthy is to be slim. And every time you see
635
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.320
a curve, every time you see a bulge. Every time
636
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.880
you see a pooch, it's a reason to be ashamed,
637
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.760
which means that happens almost every day all the time.
638
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:39.519
And so finally getting into a much bigger perspective and
639
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:45.199
goddesses throughout the centuries and Greek statues throughout the centuries,
640
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.360
and you know Indian dancers, and I mean I just
641
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:54.599
had floods and floods of women throughout millennia having curvy
642
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:59.320
bodies and absolutely fell in love with the exquisiteness of
643
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:03.440
every single curve on my body. And that has never
644
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.280
gone away. I mean, since I had that insight, I've
645
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.239
never been motivated by shame or self hatred around my body.
646
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.800
That is a big perspective shift. That's a big thing
647
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.280
that changes the quality of life on an everyday basis.
648
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:20.880
And I wouldn't if you had asked me before that,
649
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.239
are you ashamed of yourself all day long? I would
650
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:24.880
have been like, no, what are you talking about? You know,
651
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.960
so you don't know, sometimes these things are happening. So
652
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.800
those kinds of moments of insight that lead to long
653
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:37.079
term freedom from a limiting belief are absolutely powerful in
654
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.199
terms of increasing quality of life.
655
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:42.360
Yah, that's an incredible example some of the liberating insights
656
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:47.519
that come from psychaic experiences. So to reinforce this quality
657
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:49.760
of acceptance that we can really come from a place
658
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.880
of self acceptance, self compassion, and working with our internal
659
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:57.239
psychological and neurobiological landscape rather than trying to shove ourselves
660
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:01.159
around or do surgery on ourselves regardless of what epigenetic
661
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:04.679
factors we may have inherited and so forth. It's universal
662
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:08.719
that the negativity bias that's referenced in our human psychology
663
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.079
and neu biology, the job one for any species is survival.
664
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:14.239
So we're set up to pay more attention to the
665
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.119
threat than anything else, and so our long term memory
666
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.599
ends up build with that, and we end up, you know,
667
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.199
tending to spend things, and nobody escapes that. That's just
668
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.039
the human condition, right right, So we're all born with that,
669
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:27.559
and we can realize that's just part of life, and
670
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.599
we have the human capacity to be conscious and sort
671
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.199
of transcend that and not let it run our lives.
672
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:36.119
But we have to proactively, We need to proactively do things.
673
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.599
So we have the ability to do that, but it's there,
674
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:41.559
it's there to keep us alive. But if it dominates
675
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:43.679
our life. That's not so helpful, but that's just the
676
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.440
universal human conditions. Yeah, the more we look at it
677
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:48.639
and understand it's working, the more we can turn it
678
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.000
to our good, to our benefit, the more we understand
679
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:52.760
what kind of really makes us kick.
680
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.199
Yeah. Yeah, My friend Rick Hanson likes to say, you know,
681
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.840
humans in general are like velcrow for negative experiences and
682
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:03.159
have lun for positive ones, and that means that you
683
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:08.639
have to purposely, intentionally what he calls take in the good.
684
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.840
You know, when you experience things that are working, things
685
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.480
that feel good, things that are flowing, that you have
686
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:20.320
to spend time paying attention to it and even bringing
687
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.519
it back up to mind, like boy, that was a
688
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:26.079
wonderful day I had outside with my partner yesterday, or
689
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:30.360
you know, write it down, journal about it so that
690
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.239
you can purposely make it more velcrow inside of you.
691
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:38.719
And those kinds of experiences actually serve as antidotes to
692
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:44.440
stress and difficulty if we pay greater attention to them.
693
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.960
You also referenced you know, setting yourself, setting ourselves up
694
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.559
for success, and all the wonderful insights that will come
695
00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:53.360
out of recent books like Atomic Habits and Tiny habits
696
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.599
and others. We know a lot today about how habits
697
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.280
are formed, how they can be transformed and changed. And
698
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.199
one of the the key insights I think is setting
699
00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:05.039
ourselves up for success or even a health habit like
700
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.519
leaving your phone out of your bedroom when you go
701
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.960
to sleep at night, because a lot of us can
702
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.360
get into that pattern of waking up and immediately looking
703
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:14.639
at our phones and look at me, look at the
704
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:16.559
news and what are we getting. We're getting a lot
705
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:20.519
of stress from that, right, and just leaving the phone downstairs,
706
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.760
you're much more likely not to do that. Takes a
707
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:25.440
lot after get up, run downstairs, get your phone, and
708
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:27.840
engage in that right. So very simple things can set
709
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:29.280
us up with success in that way.
710
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:35.400
Yeah, and I think it's important to also address even
711
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.480
though they're simple, even though they're small, even though they're
712
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.360
all of those things, they're not easy. And you know
713
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.840
that is something that's really lies at the core of
714
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.039
some of this too, is if something we're going to
715
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:53.199
change your life, like twenty minutes of exercise a day,
716
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.599
wouldn't you do it? Would be a complete no brainer,
717
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:01.079
But we're not, We don't know, we don't always do it,
718
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:04.320
and so That's the next frontier of this whole thing
719
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:09.239
about rewiring your beliefs is why wouldn't I do those things? Well,
720
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:14.159
why wouldn't That's something to contemplate. One reason maybe that
721
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:18.960
you are simply under resource. You're working too much, or
722
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.719
you're taking care of other people too much, and you
723
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:28.039
simply do not have any extra batteries left. That's a
724
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.360
real thing, and that means, Okay, I'm going to have
725
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:36.320
to actually schedule the time for myself to do these things,
726
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.960
and to not only do them, but have the spontaneous
727
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.159
time for fun and play and relaxation so that I
728
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.480
can build up some energy reserves to be able to
729
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:48.480
do these things.
730
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.760
Personal change, personal transformation all requires energy. And you know,
731
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.800
just again pointing the importance of fundamental self care habits.
732
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.679
How do we take care of ourselves so we have
733
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:01.880
the energy for our life to go in a direction
734
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:02.599
we'd like it to go.
735
00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:05.559
Yeah, yeah, And then there are other reasons why we
736
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.159
don't do it. We may be having mental health struggles.
737
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:12.639
That depression makes it very hard to sometimes make it
738
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:15.679
down to your mailbox, much less on some kind of
739
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.519
a twenty minute exercise routine. So when you are having
740
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.480
those kinds of problems. That is when it's really helpful
741
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.840
to bring in a community, to bring in other people
742
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:32.360
who can help serve as scaffolding as you're rebuilding yourself.
743
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:37.800
We cannot, almost very rarely can humans do this alone.
744
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.599
And so if you look at something like a twelve
745
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:45.199
step program, that is a good example of a community
746
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.400
that has set into place inside of the community several
747
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.639
of the aspects that we know help people change and
748
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:59.920
help sustain change. Social support, you know, repid repeated ritual,
749
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.119
spirituality practices, you know, all these kinds of things that
750
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:09.639
are included in a community like that, you know, having
751
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:12.159
one other person be paired with you to help you
752
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:16.199
walk through the first stages. So it might not be
753
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.320
a twelve step program. It might be some other form
754
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:22.679
of community, a meditation community or a church, or you know,
755
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:26.920
even if you can find a community that's Oh, there's
756
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:30.239
a great one called integral Transformative Practice that comes out
757
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.000
of Esslen and Michael Murphy and George Leonard created eight
758
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.679
practices and usually in fall, regional groups all over the
759
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:40.960
world will start a year long process where they all
760
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:44.440
meet together and work on these things. So I highly
761
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:48.119
recommend that if you are having struggles with things that
762
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.719
you've struggled with for a long time, and you've tried
763
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:53.360
to do it on your own. It's really helpful to
764
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.800
find a community of practice of like minded folks. They
765
00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:00.360
don't have to be exactly like minded, you know, you know,
766
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:02.360
they don't need to be copies of you or else.
767
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:05.360
That would be kind of boring. To find a community
768
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.440
that's interesting, that seems like it's engaging in practices that
769
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:12.480
are new and could help form a scaffolding as you
770
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:14.639
move forward in your path.
771
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:16.920
Yeah, there are a number of communities like ken Wilber
772
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.840
also has the integal Life practices and community that at
773
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.320
heart mind. We have a membership that does that, and
774
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.559
so I think it is really important to engage in that.
775
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:28.039
You mentioned the twelve Step work addictions as an example
776
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.079
where we can you know, if we're suffering with addiction
777
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:33.199
and we can study about it and learn about it
778
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.440
and be able to get a PhD about our own
779
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:38.679
addictive cycles, it'll still be completely unable to break free
780
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:42.559
from it. Yeah, the importance of community is so important there.
781
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.360
I wonder if you also mentioned depression. I wanted to
782
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.000
ask you about that. So we talked about all the
783
00:45:48.039 --> 00:45:50.079
things we can do that are healthy force, that will
784
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:53.599
help us change and optimize and will change our beliefs
785
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:55.920
over time or at least not have negative police driver
786
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.079
alive so much, and there's just so many different things
787
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:00.400
we can do. But when someone's the press, yes, they
788
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.119
may know about all those things that just not have
789
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:06.079
the ability or the will or the energy to do them.
790
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:09.599
So what might be some strategies there where someone can
791
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.280
make that if you mentioned community, but again that could
792
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.320
be something that's almost depressed or unlikely to engage in community.
793
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.599
Yeah, yeah, it's really difficult. I mean, first of all,
794
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:24.159
I am a big proponent of asking for medical help
795
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:28.320
or therapeutic help. You might need treatment, you might need
796
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:33.199
inpatient treatment. You might need to ask for intensive outpatient
797
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:35.880
which is where you go to therapy all day, every
798
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:40.880
day or every afternoon. You may need to see a therapist,
799
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:45.639
but also be in groups that are supportive of what's
800
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.199
going on with you. So when you get to the
801
00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:52.960
point where you cannot help yourself and you can't even
802
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.639
get to these self help groups that might help you,
803
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:59.000
that's when it really is time to call for medical help.
804
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.199
I also advise everyone to even if you're not in
805
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:08.039
that place right now. One in four people experience a
806
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:12.760
serious mental health challenge every year, and so it's important
807
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:16.079
that you come up with a plan. What is your
808
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:19.079
insurance cover if you did get into a situation like that,
809
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:22.239
who would you call? What is your mental health plan?
810
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:26.119
Because when you get into that situation, that's the worst
811
00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:28.519
time to try to find help. What you want to
812
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.320
do is have it in your back pocket and be like,
813
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:33.320
I know what my insurance covers, I know who that
814
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:35.639
mental health professional is, and that's who I will call
815
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.159
if I get into a deep, dark place that I
816
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:40.280
can't get out of. So that's one.
817
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.440
Yeah, I have a colleague. I do a lot of
818
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.519
work in the corrections field and public safety. I have
819
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.400
a colleague who's a now retired police lieutenant, and he
820
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:53.159
talks about being a police officer. He knows he's exposed
821
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:55.880
to both primary and secondary trauma, chronic stress. That's just
822
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:59.280
part of his job, and so to work smart, he
823
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:01.480
knows he needs to take care of himself. So he
824
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:04.719
has regular check ins with is what he calls his
825
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.760
mental health coach, which is his therapist, right and he
826
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.960
just considers that's just being smart, being prevented in terms
827
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:13.559
of taking care of himself. We all necessarily have to
828
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.800
have a therapist, but we might want to know how
829
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:18.199
to access a therapist just in case. Yeah.
830
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:21.840
Yeah, And you know I work with police too, and
831
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:25.039
they call it a perishable skill. You know, you have
832
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:27.719
to keep learning how to hit a target. You have
833
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:31.320
to keep learning every year you update your skills. It's
834
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.400
the same thing with mental health. It is a little
835
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:36.440
bit of a perishable skill. You need to keep it
836
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:41.119
up over time and sometimes it's one of the analogies
837
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:43.400
I've heard is like clearing the brush around your house.
838
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.639
If you live in a fire zone, you know you
839
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:48.000
want to clear the brush around your house pretty often.
840
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:49.920
You don't want to be clearing it when the fire's
841
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:50.480
on its way.
842
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.960
Absolutely, So, we have a lot of mental health providers,
843
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:57.920
therapists and so forth in our audience, and I know
844
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.760
you've done work around spiritual competencies or mental health professionals,
845
00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:05.280
and so those will probably be of interest to our
846
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.079
lay audience as well. So I want to I think
847
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:08.559
could talk about those a little bit.
848
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:11.679
Yeah, I mean, this project really came out of the
849
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:18.559
understanding that most therapists and psychologists have not been trained
850
00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:23.280
in addressing the spiritual or religious aspects of people's lives,
851
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:28.079
and that is a very important part of many people's lives.
852
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.119
It can be for I don't know, sixty to seventy
853
00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:34.519
percent of people will say it's the number one driving
854
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:37.320
influence of their lives. It's how they make sense of
855
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.800
their life, is their spiritual or religious beliefs. It's how
856
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.480
they make sense of something as large as losing a
857
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.599
loved one, all the way down to how they cope
858
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:48.519
with having a flat tire on the freeway. You know,
859
00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:52.880
it's a very important part of people's psychological lives that
860
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:57.360
most psychologists and mental health professionals have not really learned
861
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.519
how to address. Obviously, there are some people who have,
862
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.559
but most general psychologists and mental health professionals will not
863
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:09.039
ask you specifically about your spiritual or religious beliefs. And
864
00:50:09.079 --> 00:50:11.559
I think that's a real shame because of how important
865
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:15.119
it is in people's psychological lives. A lot of them
866
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:17.960
also don't ask. They don't really know how to ask,
867
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:21.880
or what's effective or what's ethical, or would it be intrusive,
868
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.960
would it be welcomed by the patients, so they just
869
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:28.000
did avoid it. So one thing we're doing is trying
870
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:33.119
to establish what competency should every mental health professional know
871
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:35.960
how to do and what skills should they apply. And
872
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:38.719
it starts with just inquiring do you have any spiritual
873
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:41.800
or religious beliefs? Are they relevant in all to the
874
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.280
issue that you're bringing in. If you don't have spiritual
875
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:48.320
or religious beliefs, what principles or values do you hold
876
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:51.679
most sacred? You know, what is the overall purpose of
877
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:54.599
your life in your mind? Do you feel like you
878
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.920
have an assignment in the larger level? These questions are
879
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.960
very important to ask people because one thing that we
880
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:08.559
know is people rarely maintain changes because they should do it.
881
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:13.079
They maintain changes when it becomes a part of their identity.
882
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.320
I am the kind of person who does this, and
883
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:22.519
that's everything from personal changes to societal changes like things
884
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:26.760
that lead to climate change, behaviors and such. So it's
885
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:30.199
never very effective to tell people what they should do,
886
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.280
or even to tell yourself what you should do. It's
887
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:37.519
more effective to find out how is this aligned with
888
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:42.559
my larger purpose identity driving force in my life? If
889
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:47.440
my assignment is to for me help shift people's perspectives
890
00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:49.840
so that they can see new possibilities that allow them
891
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.599
to be kinder to themselves others in the planet. What
892
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:55.280
behaviors do I need to engage in to achieve to
893
00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.760
be in alignment with that purpose? And when you start
894
00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:02.800
to align your behaviorhaviors with your overarching purpose and you
895
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:06.239
bring that purpose to mind on a frequent basis, it
896
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.920
becomes more about what you're moving toward than what you're
897
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:12.239
moving away from. And when you live your life about
898
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.480
what you're moving toward instead of what you're moving away from.
899
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:20.360
There's just a more joyful feeling about changing these behaviors
900
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:24.400
as opposed to oh I should I know, I should
901
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.039
do that, you know that kind of stuff. So that's
902
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.360
a really important piece is to delve into what is
903
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:34.760
your assignment, what is your big assignment? What is your purpose?
904
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.599
What is the driving principle in your life? And write
905
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.639
it down, bring it to mind, put it on your
906
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.679
bedside table, put it on your mirror, and then you
907
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:46.000
can use it as a litmus test when you come
908
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.159
up with difficult decisions or when you're trying to decide
909
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:52.199
should I indulge myself right now with something and say
910
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:56.079
is this advancing that purpose? Or is it moving me away?
911
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:56.760
From my purpose.
912
00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.639
I'm glad you brought up the notion of identity. I
913
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:02.760
think we can think of identity almost as a kind
914
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.920
of meta belief in a way, or collection griefs. And
915
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.039
I personally think it's one of the greatest obstacles to change.
916
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:11.760
And we so often hear people say, well, that's just
917
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:14.000
the way I am. I've always been that way. I
918
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.119
don't see how I could be different than it. That's
919
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.320
always the way I've felt about things. That's just the
920
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:21.800
way I am. And we all need identity. I mean,
921
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.320
maybe we can get to spiritual heights where we go
922
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:26.559
beyond the need of identity. It requires quite a bit
923
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:28.719
of work, I think, but most of as we you know,
924
00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:32.880
we're born these very fragile creatures in a symbiotic relationship
925
00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:35.800
with our mother or a surrogate parent, and then we
926
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.360
have to begin to individuate, and so we start building
927
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:42.880
an identity from which to navigate this challenging world, especially
928
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:44.880
as a little type full of these giants. And so
929
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:47.320
we build an identity out of whatever is available to us,
930
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:49.519
and depending on our childhood is that may be more
931
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:51.880
or less functional and more or less benevolent, but it
932
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.960
becomes our identity, and the alternative is kind of black
933
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:58.199
hole of emptiness, groundlessness. That's an aspect of life. Then
934
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:02.039
we explore in spiritual tradition and to psychedelics and other means.
935
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:04.719
As adults we can begin to maybe get more comfortable
936
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.559
with that, but at children, we have no way to
937
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:10.159
embrace groundlessness and emptiness and these kind of things, so
938
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:13.039
we hold on to our identities pretty tightly. So I
939
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.280
think identities can be really one of the biggest obstacles
940
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:19.239
to change, but also one of the greatest facilitators have
941
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.280
changed personally. I finally stopped smoking in my thirties, and
942
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:26.119
after trying to quit many times, it was really when
943
00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:29.239
my identity shifted. It clearly happened for me that I
944
00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:31.920
instead of seeing myself as a smoker, somebody who loved
945
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.519
a cigarette but knew it wasn't good for me and
946
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:37.559
wanted to try to quit, I really my identity became
947
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:40.159
that of a non smoker who stopped with smoking as
948
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:43.119
kind of a messy habit, kind of off putting, kind
949
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:45.599
of you know, obviously bad for health, but also it
950
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:48.519
was kind of something that you know, astre suddenly looked
951
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:51.440
kind of disgusting, and my whole identity shade. So now
952
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:55.000
I'm a non smoker and never smoked again. It became quiet.
953
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:57.280
So I wonder if you could say a little more
954
00:54:57.280 --> 00:54:59.840
about identity and how we work with identity.
955
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.079
Yeah, I mean I think it's you know, I love that.
956
00:55:03.159 --> 00:55:06.199
And it's like, what story do you tell yourself about yourself?
957
00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:09.239
And what story do you tell yourself about reality? And
958
00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:12.280
the first step is recognizing that those are stories. They're
959
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:16.760
not necessarily reality. They're just your stories about who I
960
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:21.719
am or your story about reality. And shifting those stories
961
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:27.519
is really one of the most highest leverage things that
962
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.840
you can work on, because when you shift a core story,
963
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:33.800
it ripples out into a lot of different areas of
964
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:36.519
your life. So you know, you could try to address
965
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:39.679
every area you know, relationships and nutrition and exercise and
966
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.159
you know, work and all this stuff. But then if
967
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.400
you shift a core story, that ripples out into all
968
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:50.159
of those arenas. And so with environmental behaviors, for example,
969
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.800
I remember when it just started to become very hard
970
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.480
for me to throw away a plastic container. You know,
971
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.559
it is just like I just don't feel right about this.
972
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:04.719
I don't think this is the type of person I am.
973
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:07.280
I don't want to be. I don't want to be
974
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:12.320
participating in damaging the environment. And so now I've got
975
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.679
this fun field trip where I take all my empty
976
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.599
plastic containers and I go to a refeellable shop and
977
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:18.960
I fill them up with what I need and bring
978
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:22.199
them home. And you know, it's such a small, tiny action,
979
00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.960
but boy, it makes me feel aligned with who I
980
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:29.119
want to be. And so that's the other thing you
981
00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:32.039
can do is just be like, who and how do
982
00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:36.199
I want to be? Whether it's an upcoming conversation that
983
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:38.360
you're having with someone, Who and how do I want
984
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:41.599
to be in this conversation or a bigger thing, Who
985
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.599
and how do I want to be in this life?
986
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.719
Who and how do I want to be in this marriage?
987
00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:47.320
Who and how do I want to be as a parent?
988
00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:51.840
And using language that speaks to that is a big deal.
989
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.559
Like inside of your own mind, the way you talk
990
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:59.519
about instead of saying I have a really hard time exercising,
991
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:03.400
you can say I'm paying a lot of attention to exercising.
992
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.559
More So, that's just a different language. You know, I'm
993
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.159
someone who has a really hard time exercising versus I'm
994
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:11.639
paying a lot of attention right now to exercising more.
995
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:15.480
It gives your brain a different message, and it's more
996
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:19.760
helpful as you move forward. It's more effective in every way.
997
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:22.159
And you know, I want to also just make sure
998
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.119
we say you know there are certain, as you said,
999
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:29.199
with addiction, there are some core beliefs that are so
1000
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:33.599
strong that it's hard to shift them, and that sometimes
1001
00:57:33.639 --> 00:57:36.639
just takes a lot of people circling the wagons. It
1002
00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:40.119
takes a lot of time of reading and working hard
1003
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:43.280
on it and getting help, getting physical, medical help, getting
1004
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:47.840
other kinds of help. And you know that is another
1005
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:51.599
story that you could shift, is someone who needs help
1006
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:55.400
should feel ashamed about it. To every single one of
1007
00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:58.119
us needs help at some time in our lives, maybe
1008
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:01.719
more than one time. And people who you ask for
1009
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:06.599
help are typically honored by you asking. They're not shaming
1010
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.360
or upset about it. They're honored by you asking. So
1011
00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:12.599
you can even try to work on shifting your story
1012
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.440
about needing help. The last thing I would say is
1013
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:19.840
just that concept of identity. Sometimes you start by saying
1014
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.280
this is the type of identity I have, and I
1015
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:24.480
want to have all my behaviors align with it. But
1016
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:28.039
then over time, as you do these practices, your identity
1017
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:31.719
begins to get bigger and bigger, and the boundaries between
1018
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.000
your identity and everyone else start to become much more permeable.
1019
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:40.000
So instead of am I doing the behavior that's right
1020
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:42.840
for me and my purpose? You start to say, are
1021
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:46.559
we all doing what we all want to be doing
1022
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:49.519
to make the world the way we want it? And
1023
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:53.119
that movement from I to we is a very powerful movement.
1024
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.039
Yeah, And I love the way Dan Schiel talks about
1025
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.639
that of not losing me along the way, so he
1026
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.480
talks about me instruction. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue,
1027
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:07.800
but is It honors a sense of acceptance, accepting our experience, ourselves,
1028
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:11.440
and our story, but seeing stories are malleable and seeing
1029
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:14.840
that we can move to this larger kind of world
1030
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:18.719
consciousness echo consciousness, larger state of mind where we start
1031
00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:21.519
thinking in those terms and that can really help us
1032
00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:24.639
personally as well. What you think might be we've kind
1033
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.920
of been talking about this and also want the reference
1034
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:30.840
you have this idea of creating I think an ecosystem
1035
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:33.079
of well being, which we've been talking a lot about.
1036
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:34.960
I just want to get that out there because I
1037
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.000
think you've pointed it out in many ways that we
1038
00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:40.480
could work on creating that ecosystem for ourselves. But if
1039
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:44.639
there is one in your experience working with others and
1040
00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:47.719
with yourself, the one kind of limiting core belief that
1041
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:51.440
seems to be most commonly detrimental to us as human beings,
1042
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:55.039
and what might be our maybe the most essential evidence
1043
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:57.440
based strategy for beginning to work with that.
1044
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.480
Oh gosh, there are probably a lot, but I will
1045
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.199
use one that my colleague John Aston and I have
1046
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:08.760
been working with for over twenty years, which is this
1047
01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:12.880
shouldn't be here, This shouldn't be happening. As we move
1048
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:17.800
through our day or our lives, and we get confronted
1049
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:21.920
with things, it could be as small as it's raining,
1050
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:27.239
and we say, ah, this shouldn't be happening, it's too cold, Oh,
1051
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:30.320
this shouldn't be here, or worse, you know, if somebody
1052
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:34.039
says something or something happens, this shouldn't be happening. It's
1053
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:39.920
so much more effective to say, this is happening. How
1054
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:42.320
do I want to respond? You know, I want to
1055
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:45.159
get an umbrella. I want to get a jacket. You know,
1056
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:49.280
do I really want my dinner to be ruined by
1057
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:52.199
the fact that the room is colder, or would I
1058
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.519
rather have decide to have a wonderful time even though
1059
01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:58.400
the room is cold, And you know, when it gets bigger,
1060
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:02.199
it's harder. You know, my child is not doing well,
1061
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:06.599
or my marriage is failing, or it looks like I
1062
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:09.760
might need to find a new job. Even then, though
1063
01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:13.719
staying in this shouldn't be happening, people can stay in
1064
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:16.639
that for years. In fact, they can stay for years
1065
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:21.280
and that shouldn't have happened. And that belief causes more
1066
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.679
suffering than almost anything else. So if it can be
1067
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:30.519
like that is happening, do you feel pain because of it?
1068
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.760
How do I want? What is the next right thing
1069
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.960
to do? Do I need to ask for help? Do
1070
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.199
I need to take some time off to consider this?
1071
01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:42.719
What needs to happen next? Given that this is happening,
1072
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:45.920
and you can feel even the difference in the voice,
1073
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.719
it's a compassionate this is happening. This is what's happening.
1074
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:52.360
I'm sorry, this is a tera Brock says, this is
1075
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:55.400
a moment of suffering, or Kristin Neff, you know this
1076
01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:00.000
is hard. But something being painful and hard is different
1077
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:03.920
than it being miserable and suffering, and the miserable and
1078
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:07.400
suffering comes from I don't accept this. I don't want
1079
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:10.239
this to be happening. I'm not gonna you know, you
1080
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:13.719
can have times. Of course that's where you are, and
1081
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:16.039
that's fine, that's totally normal. But if you can, in
1082
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:18.559
general be like, if this is exactly as it is,
1083
01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:21.519
which it is because it's happening, how then would I
1084
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:24.000
respond in a way that makes me feel like I'm
1085
01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:25.519
the type of person that I want to be.
1086
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:29.400
That's incredibly powerful. That is, I think one of the
1087
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:33.800
real acupressure points of our self created suffering and understandably
1088
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:35.960
and we need to have compassion for that tendency, but
1089
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:39.239
it can be so liberating to simply find a way
1090
01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:41.760
to feel what we're feeling about something, but then shift
1091
01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:44.719
into some kind of acceptance, not saying that that's okay.
1092
01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:47.559
It may be, you know, quite frankly, it sucks, But
1093
01:02:48.079 --> 01:02:50.360
what am I going to do whether yeah, the thing
1094
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.280
I can do to move forward, rather than saying trapped
1095
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:57.559
in my resistance or my resentment about it? Yeah, yeah,
1096
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:01.199
Well this has been incredibly illuminating and and I really
1097
01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:03.519
appreciate everything you've shared with us so much. I think
1098
01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:07.000
it's going to be really helpful to our audience. How
1099
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:09.679
can people find out more about your work, your various
1100
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:10.960
initiatives and so forth.
1101
01:03:11.039 --> 01:03:14.320
Yeah, the easiest way is to go to Cassandraviton dot com.
1102
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.199
So yeah, come and find me there. And thanks Fleet.
1103
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:19.519
It's always wonderful to be with.
1104
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.480
You, equally so, and I really encourage people to check
1105
01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:26.039
out your work there Cassentraveeton dot com. And thank you
1106
01:03:26.079 --> 01:03:26.440
so much.
1107
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:28.559
All right, thank you, good good care.
1108
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:33.280
Thank you for joining me on the Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember,
1109
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.039
real change happens when we commit to our growth, face
1110
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.679
our challenges with compassion, and stay open to transformation. If
1111
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:42.960
you found this episode helpful, I encourage you to subscribe
1112
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:46.320
and help us spread the message of healing and personal empowerment.
1113
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:49.880
Stay grounded, stay present, and stay true to you. Take care,