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In this video, we're going to be talking to home service business owners about how you can make sure that when it comes to your marriage, you're on the same page.
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Dealing with a spouse.
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Okay.
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All right.
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We're also going to be talking about hiring your first employee and how to bridge that gap from solo operator to a manager.
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So I lost my first employee and it was pretty ugly.
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Like it was a friend of mine and like we no longer talk.
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We're also going to talk about leaving your nine to five to actually grow and scale a million dollar home service business.
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You will grow a business to that size again, working 50 hours a week.
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This is an introduction call that I have with all new members at HomeWorks.
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So if you're interested in joining, go to home.works and we'll see you on the other side.
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So right now, I'm currently working a nine-to-five job, and this year I've done $75,000 in revenue.
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So the thought next year is there's two options.
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Either keep doing my nine-to-five while I hire somebody, or I quit my job and hire somebody also, and the two of us go do it.
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Kind of in your opinion, would it slow me down more if I just tried to stay working at my nine-to-five, or should I just...
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pull the bandaid off and go.
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So it will 100% slow you down.
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It's a function of risk, right?
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If you don't have that slowdown of working nine to five, will you grow the business more and replace your current wage, right?
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And so if you don't mind me asking, what's your take home from your nine to five?
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It's about 100%.
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Yeah, that's well paying, right?
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So my thought process of, can I pay someone 50 grand to go do the work that you would do?
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They're not going to work as fast and as efficiently as you.
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I would put them on P4P, but if you pay someone 50 or 60 grand, you still make 100 grand net.
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That might be a good move as an intermediary between you going full time.
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This is now that we assume risk, right?
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So if you were more risk prone and you have plenty of cash, you might make the jump earlier knowing you'll grow the business a year faster.
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And that's kind of what I've done is like, I've lowered my personal bills and all that stuff as low as I could get them.
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And I have a good little safety net.
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So it's like, I'm kind of up in the air, but I just don't.
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Like a hundred take home from your W2.
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Let's just say after, you know, you know, taxes up, it's 80.
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You're going to have to make 160 to 180,000 in the business.
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Right.
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And so you have to double the business.
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And so your level of confidence in that and then the risk associated with that jump is what you're trying to balance.
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And that usually comes with how much cash you have set aside.
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Also, by bringing your personal expenses way down, you likely have reduced the threshold of how much you need to grow the business to cover your personal expenses.
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And so this comes down to, do you need to like, if, for example, if I was in your shoes and I had a wife and a few kids, I'd probably be a little slower, assuming I didn't have a hundred grand sitting in the bank that I need to just like, let's take one more year and just grow sustainably flip side.
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Next spring rush, you could very well double or triple the business if you just focus all of your time and attention on it.
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Yeah.
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And that's kind of where I'm at is the focus thing.
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It,
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If I could really focus, I think I could turn some things on and get going.
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What does your wife think?
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She wants me home more.
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And right now I'm not home because I'm doing nine to five and then I'm doing both.
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If she had to choose between one, which one does she want?
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Does she want you to do full-time the business or just stick with your nine to five?
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She'd want me to go to the business because she could see the passion and all that stuff.
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Yeah, just do that.
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Okay.
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My second question, if I can, what are some common pitfalls that you see for people making that switch to being fully self-employed and then some common pitfalls for hiring their first employee?
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That's why I asked you about your wife.
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That's the number one reason.
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Because usually, if the spouse is risk adverse, and the entrepreneur is going off and doing their thing, they make a bunch of risky decisions, i.e.
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getting rid of a stable job that's well-paying.
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And then there's fractures in the relationship, which then kills the business, or the business struggles and then it fractures the relationship.
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So her support is why I said like that's the cosine that you need because she will – assuming the expectation has been set that, hey, it might be a little bit dicey for three to six months and you're not going to see me anymore for six months.
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Because during Spring Rush, I need to get the business to the point where I can take money out of it and it's going to take me the same amount of you not seeing me for six months during Spring Rush.
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After that, then I can commit to like we can dial it back and then the whole objective of this business gets accomplished, which is you see me more and we make the same or even more money down the road.
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And it's like, that's why I asked that question.
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Yeah.
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And what was the next part?
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Was it about hiring?
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Sorry.
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Some common pitfalls for your first hire.
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Honestly, a lot of times first hires are good because they're really good.
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It's usually your second and third employees I see people falter with.
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Because the first employee, you're with them all day long.
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So it's the system of eyeballs on person that makes it relatively easy to manage.
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Because you can see everything they're doing.
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And they're not working hard.
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You just tell them.
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And they know you're the boss.
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You don't need pay for performance because you're with them all the time.
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And so it's usually when second and third employees come that's actually the most difficult.
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So pitfalls I see on first employees is under communication of the expectations of where the company is going.
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And you end up losing that first employee because they're solid when you get to two and three employees.
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And now you're no longer working alongside them.
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So I lost my first employee and it was pretty ugly.
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Like it was a friend of mine and like we no longer talk.
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And it's because I didn't set the expectation.
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I'm going to go to this business and I'm not going to be working in this truck with you forever.
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And so you really like that now, but like down the road, that's not going to be the case.
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Okay.
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My question is, there's a fertilizing company in our city, Springfield, Missouri, really premier, Christian-based, value-based company that has a very high price price,
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value point type thing.
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And I'm thinking of setting up an offer.
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They don't do any mowing.
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They just do fertilizing, landscaping, and tree service.
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And I'm doing some sort of affiliate program with them for mowing clients and mowing in the lawn maintenance side of it.
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And I'm curious how you would recommend to go about that.
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Yeah, so do you do treatments at all right now?
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No, and I don't plan to.
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I think you could probably get away here with just doing a referral strategy instead of an affiliate because you have customers they need and they have customers you want.
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And so I think this could be more of a referral situation.
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It's easy to track.
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It's like, hey, when you have a treatment client that you don't want, you give it to them.
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When they have a mowing customer that they don't want, they hand it to you.
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And because those of you don't do the service, money shouldn't have to flow hands and just keep it simple.
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If you go the affiliate strategy, it just becomes a little more difficult because it's tracking, it's retention.
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There's a lot of things that will play into what you're even willing to spend.
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I would say if you want to grease the gears of the referral engine, you would actually start giving your customers an incentive for them to move over.
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So, for example, you say, hey, you signed up for mowing.
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Welcome to the club.
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If you would like to do treatments, we don't offer that, but our affiliate partner does or our partner does.
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And if you sign up using this link, you'll get $100 off or your first treatment free.
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Then it's very easy for them to track that as well.
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And that's the biggest problem I see with referral programs is you're getting customers from them that you don't know about that it's a referral and they're getting customers from you that, that you, that they don't know it came from you.
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So I want all credit when you're,
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I give someone a referral because I'm building the will and hopefully they're giving.
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So I would try to set up more like what's the offer we're willing to give each other's customers in order to make this easier to track.
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Yeah.
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So if they click a button, it goes to your form or a specific form you make specifically for their customers.
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You could put both of your logos at the top of the form.
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It could be in Google Form.
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It could be a – you can just get as creative as you want with that.
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But I think that's the best way to grease the gears of the referral engine as well as make it easier to track.
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If you're trying to get started and you don't really want to spend a bunch of money on software yet, at Copilot, you can have up to 50 customers completely free inside the software and be able to do estimates, invoices, the whole nine yards.
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Also, if you're under 18 years old, you can get the pro version for free without that limited number of customers.
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So go check it out, copilot.com, book a call with Christian, head of our sales team, and he'll make sure it's a good fit for you.
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A couple more questions.
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One is in relation to the
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Dealing with a spouse.
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So I've.
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Those are strong words.
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Dealing with a spouse.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Not dealing with a spouse.
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I guess negotiating would be the word.
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Oh, negotiating.
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Okay.
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Let's do it.
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All right.
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So I grew up in a lawn care family.
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Never scaled.
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Our family always worked from five to nine every day all the time.
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And so that was all I was used to.
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My wife came from a family where her father was a computer programmer and he could be around
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And we've been running a business for three years now.
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Sold a bigger, we were doing about 500K last year.
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Sold it because I was never home.
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And everything just was not working out very well.
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And I'm trying to be home a decent amount with the kids and the wife.
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While still growing, we started a new location around probably 100K this year.
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And wanting to grow a lot.
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to the point of being free and being able to buy back our time.
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Yep.
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What's the best way you see to do that?
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Totally.
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So just so I'm clear, you sold the $500,000 in revenue business because it was taking all of your time.
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Is that the case?
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Okay.
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Yes.
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And was that business profitable?
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About 30% profitable, but I was working in the field still a little bit.
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Got it.
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And so it was still sucking seven days a week of energy that was causing a rift and you decided like, Hey, I just have to get rid of the business.
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Yeah.
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How are we building the current business this, this year differently to where the, that's not going to be the same outcome as we scale.
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Well, trying to have higher prices.
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Um, I'm currently the only one here.
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I'm doing all the work and just charging a lot for it.
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And then.
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trying to grow a little bit more sustainably instead of just grow to grow.
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Got it.
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And do you have a chunk of cash from the sale of the $500,000 business, or is that basically you got out of the debt and you just needed to get yourself some breathing room and save the relationship?
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We're on a payment plan with the company that bought us out for 8% of the retained service for the next two years, the last year and then two more years.
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Last year and two more years.
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Okay.
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And is that what, like $2,000, $1,500 to $2,000 a month?
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Depending on the month, it's like $1,500 to $2,000.
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What does she want?
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She wants time with you.
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Why did she allow you to start this business again?
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Because I was really restless when I was not doing business.
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So what did that...
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I have too many dreams and too much experience with business to go work for somebody on a nine-to-five.
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And I have no college degree, so I can't get it.
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I mean, I don't say I can't.
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It would be harder for me to get a $100,000 a year job or something like that.
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Makes sense.
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So when you were negotiating, quote unquote, this, like I'm starting this new business, what did you say that she's like, yes, I support that?
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Or does she not really support this and she still kind of wishes you just go get a job?
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She fully supports it.
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What the struggle is, is right now I'm prioritizing family time.
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and trying to work maybe 10 hours a day, five days a week.
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And my struggle is that's working all right, but I'm trying to grow to a point where I can have employees and
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be running something that's not just a job, it's a business.
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So running a business at five days a week for 10 hours a day, you will grow the business.
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You have the skill of growing to 500,000.
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We know that.
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You learn things from that and skills that will allow you to be able to grow this business more efficiently, probably faster than you do before.
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And more importantly, have the systems in place that when you're at 500,000, you're not working seven days a week.
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You will grow a business to that size again, working 50 hours a week.
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If you work 70 hours a week, you will probably get there faster.
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The question is, when you get there, will you still have that relationship?
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And so in my two cents here is you will get there, and this is a function of time, I would recommend, and I think you would agree, like let's not try to squeeze getting to your goals in an extra year or two, and then losing the relationship.
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Because that will actually hurt the business more than you just take an extra year or two
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and working at 50 hours a week, 50 hours a week is sufficient to grow a business.
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Are you going to be able to get if you did 75 hours, you get there 50% faster, assuming that you don't have any sort of drop off and efficiency of your work, which usually does happen.
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So I would think this is a function of time and then setting your expectation that this is going to take longer than you would prefer.
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But losing that would actually derail you and cause way more pain as well as like time in the long in the long run.
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100% No, that's a great answer.
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And one follow-up question, I don't want to take too much time, but I've been doing this for a while, and I feel like my service is valuable and do a good job and stuff.
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And instead of following your kind of roadmap that you follow at Augusta, where you get to 500,000 and raise prices, I'm just getting to a capacity for myself and raising prices as I get capacity.
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Do you see a price point where raising prices...
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As a solo operator, you raise them too much.
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Where when you get employees, the customer are like, well, you raised the prices all this much, and now you're adding employees.
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Do you see a problem with that or a tap on what you should raise your budget hourly rate
214
00:14:46.605 --> 00:14:48.308
No, just know that it's inversely correlated.
215
00:14:48.328 --> 00:14:51.552
So if I raise my prices a lot, it's going to be harder for me to grow the business.
216
00:14:52.073 --> 00:14:55.458
So you might be making $250,000 as a solo operator.
217
00:14:55.478 --> 00:15:00.586
And there are people doing that because they just stay in profit mode and kept raising prices, doesn't make it 150 to 200 bucks an hour.
218
00:15:00.606 --> 00:15:01.527
The challenge.
219
00:15:01.527 --> 00:15:07.371
Challenging part is like you might then go run ads because you're like, I'm going to go over there to grow this business and get employed because I don't want to be in the field all the time.
220
00:15:07.671 --> 00:15:11.094
And then you run into this wall of no one's accepting these new prices.
221
00:15:11.454 --> 00:15:19.099
And the reason I've been able to get to this price is because I spent 10 years getting one or two new customers a month, just replacing churn.
222
00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.921
And then if I get over more than that, I just raise prices again.
223
00:15:22.722 --> 00:15:25.604
High prices will cause you to grow slower.
224
00:15:26.694 --> 00:15:33.919
And so what you want to be careful of is growing so high in terms of price and seeking every dollar out of profit and then switching to growth mode.
225
00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:40.144
So when you switch from profit mode to growth mode, you have to realize that if you don't lower your price, your close rate will be lower.
226
00:15:40.324 --> 00:15:40.924
Here's the thing.
227
00:15:41.625 --> 00:15:45.667
The vast majority of people are so afraid of that so they don't raise prices because like one day I'll go into growth mode.
228
00:15:46.728 --> 00:15:49.912
And what happens, they're afraid of what I just talked about.
229
00:15:50.132 --> 00:15:52.755
Like, I raise my prices too high, people will keep saying no.
230
00:15:53.075 --> 00:15:56.899
Here's the thing, if your prices are 50% higher, let's go $80 an hour versus 120.
231
00:15:57.420 --> 00:15:59.222
Will more people say no to your estimates?
232
00:15:59.302 --> 00:15:59.582
Yes.
233
00:16:00.143 --> 00:16:03.206
If you charge 50% more, would you be able to spend more money on ads?
234
00:16:03.606 --> 00:16:08.371
Would you be able to drive two to three times more leads because you have the ad budget to be able to do it?
235
00:16:09.012 --> 00:16:20.816
Now, all of a sudden, if you spent 20% of revenue, which is crazy, 20% of revenue on ads, but you increase your prices so much over the course of a few years being in profit mode as a solo operator, it actually makes sense.
236
00:16:22.157 --> 00:16:25.338
Like I could still go into growth mode and just do it with paid ads.
237
00:16:26.853 --> 00:16:32.875
So what I would say, Adam, is you can be in profit mode as a solo operator, go very, very premium and very expensive.
238
00:16:33.675 --> 00:16:36.456
And in the back of your mind, like, man, there's no way I can scale this.
239
00:16:36.696 --> 00:16:38.137
People will say no to my estimates.
240
00:16:38.157 --> 00:16:39.857
I will never be able to get three, four, five employees.
241
00:16:40.718 --> 00:16:50.401
I would beg to differ because what you will then do when you will go back into growth mode, yes, your close rate will be low, but you'll have the budget to go spend on ads and drive traffic.
242
00:16:50.961 --> 00:16:55.643
Then you will switch as much as possible to instant quotes or over the phone estimates.
243
00:16:56.790 --> 00:16:59.232
And then that will push your close rate back up.
244
00:17:00.433 --> 00:17:05.757
And so the trouble I have with people that go way, way premium, like this is a bad problem to have.
245
00:17:06.338 --> 00:17:07.839
And your close rate is literally 10% to 15%.
246
00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:14.624
The reason I have a problem with that is because now you're spending a whole bunch of money getting estimates out and only 10% are getting accepted.
247
00:17:14.664 --> 00:17:15.705
It's very inefficient.
248
00:17:16.485 --> 00:17:22.950
But what you can do if you go back into growth mode is switch to instant pricing or over the phone estimates and having someone answer the phone and doing pricing for you.
249
00:17:23.571 --> 00:17:24.571
Throttle ads is,
250
00:17:25.551 --> 00:17:30.099
And then now there's no drag on your estimator or you doing a bunch more ad and sending out quotes.
251
00:17:31.762 --> 00:17:32.303
A hundred percent.
252
00:17:33.037 --> 00:17:34.418
So I would say this is three phases.
253
00:17:34.678 --> 00:17:40.721
One, get to premium, get to where you're raising prices and you're at capacity as a solo operator, making very good money.
254
00:17:41.521 --> 00:17:51.106
Then second phase, change the way I do estimates to get on like when the copy and paste millionaire goes from like in-person estimates, drive-by estimates, over the phone estimates, and then instant quotes.
255
00:17:51.226 --> 00:17:59.930
I'm going to be going this way as much as possible so that when phase three, I turn on the ads because I now have the margin to do so, I actually have a decent close rate.
256
00:18:00.892 --> 00:18:04.435
Because on instant quotes, once we have it in homeworks, this will be good timing for you.
257
00:18:05.375 --> 00:18:10.399
A card on file and accept the job is 100% close rate of people going into that funnel.
258
00:18:13.602 --> 00:18:13.842
Right?
259
00:18:14.102 --> 00:18:15.623
And so that's how you can get around it.
260
00:18:15.764 --> 00:18:16.924
So I would not be afraid of that.
261
00:18:16.964 --> 00:18:18.466
This is why a lot of people will not go too premium.
262
00:18:18.486 --> 00:18:20.707
They're afraid that one day they'll go back into growth mode.
263
00:18:21.028 --> 00:18:28.553
And I just tell them, if you spent 20% or 30% of that extra increase in price on ads, you'd be able to backfill your schedule with just as many leads.
264
00:18:30.215 --> 00:18:30.495
Perfect.
265
00:18:31.003 --> 00:18:31.423
You're awesome.
266
00:18:31.443 --> 00:18:31.763
Thank you.
267
00:18:32.303 --> 00:18:32.743
You're the man.
268
00:18:33.443 --> 00:18:35.084
Jeff, Blue Sky Ferndale.
269
00:18:35.244 --> 00:18:36.864
He's like literally a couple miles away from me.
270
00:18:37.004 --> 00:18:37.424
Let's go.
271
00:18:37.924 --> 00:18:43.125
For a winter services, roof and gutters and Christmas light type stuff.
272
00:18:43.925 --> 00:18:46.886
I don't have a problem myself doing roofs and gutters.
273
00:18:47.526 --> 00:18:51.527
Although some of the pitches on the roofs around here, I don't like.
274
00:18:52.467 --> 00:18:58.688
But how do you, how do you deal with that in terms of your client tell, you know,
275
00:18:59.943 --> 00:19:03.686
And plus with your employees, some guys don't like ladders.
276
00:19:03.766 --> 00:19:08.869
And it kind of, I mean, I love to put it on there because it's a good deal.
277
00:19:09.029 --> 00:19:12.671
It's a good income source, but it's difficult.
278
00:19:13.191 --> 00:19:13.432
Yeah.
279
00:19:13.452 --> 00:19:15.393
So like, you know, I know your market pretty good.
280
00:19:15.453 --> 00:19:16.654
You don't need Christmas lights.
281
00:19:17.194 --> 00:19:21.517
You can stay busy very well throughout November in our market with winter services.
282
00:19:22.197 --> 00:19:24.438
Now, if you're going to start doing gutters, we just make it really simple.
283
00:19:24.478 --> 00:19:26.640
It's like we won't get anything above your first story.
284
00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:33.184
That way the biggest ladder they're getting on is a 10 foot extension ladder leaned up against a gutter.
285
00:19:33.645 --> 00:19:36.947
And again, we're just, we're just inspecting the gutters for winter services.
286
00:19:37.267 --> 00:19:38.548
So they don't have to like move it along.
287
00:19:38.568 --> 00:19:41.130
They just go into the downspout and making sure that's still flowing.
288
00:19:41.711 --> 00:19:44.273
And so that would be like the lowest, lowest lift change.
289
00:19:44.653 --> 00:19:44.953
Okay.
290
00:19:45.353 --> 00:19:46.314
That's it for now.
291
00:19:47.335 --> 00:19:47.615
Awesome.
292
00:19:47.815 --> 00:19:48.436
We got a few more.
293
00:19:48.476 --> 00:19:49.937
We got Jared up next.
294
00:19:50.785 --> 00:19:51.605
Hey, Mike, how you doing?
295
00:19:52.166 --> 00:19:52.486
Good, brother.
296
00:19:52.506 --> 00:19:52.906
How you doing?
297
00:19:52.926 --> 00:19:54.147
Love your shirt.
298
00:19:54.167 --> 00:19:55.147
Thanks, man.
299
00:19:55.247 --> 00:19:57.728
So Mike actually is about winter services as well.
300
00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:01.750
So we kind of convert our, I'm in Cincinnati.
301
00:20:01.850 --> 00:20:04.972
Our last week of mowing is usually the week of Halloween.
302
00:20:06.032 --> 00:20:10.855
And then the first week in November, this was the first year we really did winter services.
303
00:20:10.895 --> 00:20:12.976
We usually do leave for removal, all that stuff.
304
00:20:14.116 --> 00:20:15.337
But our problem has been,
305
00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:24.972
Customers not being, I guess, totally satisfied if we're not getting all the leaves on the property in the amount of time that we're there for mowing.
306
00:20:25.612 --> 00:20:27.392
And then now we're dealing with snow.
307
00:20:28.192 --> 00:20:28.992
So they're not liking that.
308
00:20:29.392 --> 00:20:35.053
And we so it's kind of a two party question if we should, you know, move the service up if it does snow.
309
00:20:36.093 --> 00:20:41.214
Like actually our winter service schedule falls on this coming Monday.
310
00:20:42.015 --> 00:20:43.775
But we just got snow yesterday.
311
00:20:43.795 --> 00:20:43.855
So.
312
00:20:45.173 --> 00:20:48.774
do I move that visit up and then restart?
313
00:20:49.515 --> 00:20:52.776
Or how does that kind of, I haven't read the book yet.
314
00:20:53.356 --> 00:20:55.057
That's my January to-do list.
315
00:20:55.077 --> 00:20:55.397
Oh, okay.
316
00:20:55.437 --> 00:20:57.198
I was going to say, I was like, this will get answered in the book.
317
00:20:57.298 --> 00:20:57.678
Okay.
318
00:20:57.718 --> 00:21:00.159
So when you read the book, it'll answer a lot of these questions.
319
00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:07.642
So first off, it's how you communicate to the customer about what winter services really is.
320
00:21:07.722 --> 00:21:11.984
The more you communicate with them, and like, for example, my location has hundreds.
321
00:21:12.484 --> 00:21:14.285
We go one by one by one and call them.
322
00:21:15.028 --> 00:21:19.691
We go one by one by one if they don't pick up and we make Loom videos and show the pricing difference.
323
00:21:20.332 --> 00:21:21.953
This leads to way less confusion.
324
00:21:22.413 --> 00:21:27.336
Also higher adoption rate simply because the value's there.
325
00:21:27.697 --> 00:21:30.659
Like once they see it and understand it, they're good with it.
326
00:21:31.159 --> 00:21:38.164
If you just, like we used to do this, we just rolled right into Windows Services, all sorts of complaints, un-misunderstanding what included, et cetera.
327
00:21:38.184 --> 00:21:44.028
So I would definitely go through the book and like move up higher levels of communication on the upfront.
328
00:21:44.048 --> 00:21:44.328
Yeah.
329
00:21:44.868 --> 00:21:49.634
And then in terms of like leaf cleanups, for example, you don't get all the leaf done.
330
00:21:50.074 --> 00:21:52.437
That's a perfect opportunity to upsell them into a cleanup.
331
00:21:53.057 --> 00:21:58.323
And how we just make sure on the upfront before we even when we're selling them winter services, we just make it very clear.
332
00:21:58.544 --> 00:21:59.324
Here's how it's going to work.
333
00:21:59.344 --> 00:22:00.326
We're going to chip away at things.
334
00:22:00.946 --> 00:22:04.270
And if we hit a point where you're like, I need a cleanup, let us know.
335
00:22:05.391 --> 00:22:06.211
I.e., they're mad.
336
00:22:07.091 --> 00:22:09.392
We'll get you an estimate to get it right back up to zero.
337
00:22:09.592 --> 00:22:21.534
But you can just say winter services is, A, a way to be able to maintain your fall cleanup and the look of your property throughout the entire year, or B, save money by allowing us to chip away at your fall cleanup throughout the entire year.
338
00:22:21.994 --> 00:22:22.734
Off season, I should say.
339
00:22:23.394 --> 00:22:23.874
Okay.
340
00:22:24.254 --> 00:22:25.915
So it's really about communication.
341
00:22:28.015 --> 00:22:29.495
The higher level you go, the better.
342
00:22:29.515 --> 00:22:31.676
If you just do email, you're gonna have a lot of problems.
343
00:22:32.056 --> 00:22:32.956
If you do a phone call,
344
00:22:33.837 --> 00:22:34.097
Better.
345
00:22:34.457 --> 00:22:41.200
If you do a loom video and actually show them their property versus a comparable price and what they're saving and explain everything better.
346
00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:45.062
If you go in person with a whiteboard and walk them through it, the best.
347
00:22:45.342 --> 00:22:46.943
So like there's levels here, right?
348
00:22:47.463 --> 00:22:51.985
And then I would say in terms of snow, we have a kind of a split of two different ways that people do it.
349
00:22:52.205 --> 00:22:56.007
One is they will just pull the next winter service visit forward.
350
00:22:57.243 --> 00:22:59.264
Some people will just pull the next visit forward.
351
00:22:59.284 --> 00:23:04.666
The problem is if you have six events in seven days, you just blew through all of your winter services, right?
352
00:23:05.967 --> 00:23:08.948
I prefer it to be winter services are separate from snow.
353
00:23:10.169 --> 00:23:11.009
Here's all the things we do.
354
00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:14.710
And if snow is present and we're there, yeah, we'll get rid of it.
355
00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:16.211
We'll put down ice, et cetera.
356
00:23:16.631 --> 00:23:19.753
But if you want to be on the snow route, different service.
357
00:23:20.493 --> 00:23:24.134
Yeah, that's kind of what I was struggling with just because like I said, it's coming up
358
00:23:26.076 --> 00:23:31.079
We've got people that, so before we just did the Black Friday deal with Copilot.
359
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:32.099
So I'm still getting into there.
360
00:23:32.439 --> 00:23:41.444
I'm coming from Jobber and we used the MailChimp email blast and got people signed up with Snow that aren't our normal mowing customers.
361
00:23:42.244 --> 00:23:46.586
So I'm like, they're paying a premium versus people that are doing winter services.
362
00:23:47.467 --> 00:23:48.868
I kind of was bad on that.
363
00:23:49.108 --> 00:23:49.388
So yeah.
364
00:23:50.042 --> 00:23:55.528
So what I would do on your winter services comparison chart that I'm going to communicate to every customer.
365
00:23:55.549 --> 00:24:00.554
I'm going to have, here's the cost of your fall cleanup and your spring cleanup and snow services.
366
00:24:01.719 --> 00:24:04.581
And then if you want, you could then package snow into winter services.
367
00:24:05.622 --> 00:24:05.782
Okay.
368
00:24:05.802 --> 00:24:09.585
Or you say, here's fall cleanup and spring cleanup versus winter services.
369
00:24:09.765 --> 00:24:13.508
And also, by the way, if you want to get on snow service, there's this other thing.
370
00:24:14.188 --> 00:24:16.890
The reason I do that is because some people will just go straight to snow.
371
00:24:17.691 --> 00:24:18.471
Like, I don't want the fall.
372
00:24:18.531 --> 00:24:20.353
I don't want the winter services thing, but can I get snow?
373
00:24:21.668 --> 00:24:24.571
Again, this is going to take three to four minutes to explain to someone.
374
00:24:25.272 --> 00:24:33.660
But again, if you do that for even a couple hundred people, it's a couple days worth of work for massive improvement to the revenue over the offseason.
375
00:24:34.294 --> 00:24:38.899
So do you recommend selling this more like in the October timeframe or is this?
376
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:39.500
Yes.
377
00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:45.167
As you do not want people canceling mowing service prematurely without you have pitched this already.
378
00:24:45.187 --> 00:24:47.429
So we usually go six weeks before the end of our mowing season.
379
00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:48.150
Okay.
380
00:24:48.671 --> 00:24:54.517
So like I would actually, if I was you like end of September, because what happens is you're getting some people to hit their October 1st bill.
381
00:24:55.138 --> 00:24:56.819
second week bill, and they're canceling.
382
00:24:57.159 --> 00:25:00.282
I don't want to be on the 31st being like, oh, by the way, there's winter services.
383
00:25:00.402 --> 00:25:05.725
I went like six weeks before, so they don't even think about canceling because I've already explained to them we just roll in this other thing.
384
00:25:06.326 --> 00:25:07.527
Okay, cool.
385
00:25:07.607 --> 00:25:10.469
And that goes for people that don't even really do clean.
386
00:25:10.489 --> 00:25:17.394
Like we have a lot of mowing customers that do their own mulch and cleanups, and you're still trying to sell them on that stuff, right?
387
00:25:17.454 --> 00:25:17.694
Yeah.
388
00:25:18.237 --> 00:25:26.506
I am, and then I'm also realizing that you have this add-on of snow services that you get to kind of pitch them as well.
389
00:25:26.707 --> 00:25:31.853
So we have some people that will watch the winter services, and they'll be like, yes, I want winter services, and I want the snow.
390
00:25:32.353 --> 00:25:35.377
We have other people like, don't like the winter services thing, but I didn't know you offered snow.
391
00:25:35.457 --> 00:25:36.117
Can I just get that?
392
00:25:36.137 --> 00:25:37.479
Okay, cool.
393
00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:38.260
Thanks.
394
00:25:38.832 --> 00:25:42.454
Yep, and that kind of evens out your revenue too, so that way you have winter service revenue.
395
00:25:42.694 --> 00:25:47.017
But when it snows, you actually have a peak of – like you have something for the crew to do.
396
00:25:47.037 --> 00:25:47.717
Yeah.
397
00:25:47.877 --> 00:25:55.242
And then you can go back to winter services even if the snow stays on the ground for two weeks because part of our winter services is we put salt down on the steps.
398
00:25:55.902 --> 00:25:57.503
We will shovel the walkways.
399
00:25:57.643 --> 00:25:59.084
We just aren't doing like a plowing job.
400
00:25:59.644 --> 00:25:59.884
Yeah.
401
00:26:00.525 --> 00:26:00.765
Okay.
402
00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:03.100
Awesome.
403
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:03.500
All right.
404
00:26:03.560 --> 00:26:07.321
We got time for, well, we have no time, but let's go ahead and do two more.
405
00:26:07.401 --> 00:26:07.601
Okay.
406
00:26:07.621 --> 00:26:10.762
So I had kind of a real quick question.
407
00:26:11.582 --> 00:26:13.903
I'm trying to, we're scaling pretty fast.
408
00:26:14.143 --> 00:26:15.523
So this is our second year in business.
409
00:26:15.743 --> 00:26:18.644
I've owned another business before, sold that, and that's kind of where we're at now.
410
00:26:19.164 --> 00:26:23.805
We're trying, so I'm day-to-day in the field running my crew.
411
00:26:24.365 --> 00:26:26.306
I'm trying to step out of that and hire somebody.
412
00:26:26.666 --> 00:26:29.966
And I kind of had the same question as one of the previous guys,
413
00:26:33.147 --> 00:26:47.762
Do you think it's better to hire somebody that has done the same kind of work or is it better to hire somebody that's kind of fresh and younger and could grow with a business and kind of be able to train them into kind of that role and mold them to where they should be?
414
00:26:48.835 --> 00:26:49.796
Yeah, like the manager role.
415
00:26:49.816 --> 00:26:50.617
Is that what you're talking about?
416
00:26:50.817 --> 00:26:51.098
Yeah.
417
00:26:51.138 --> 00:26:54.742
Like, I mean, as far as crew leader, if that like, because there's some decision.
418
00:26:54.762 --> 00:26:57.185
I mean, you're talking about trees over people's houses.
419
00:26:57.225 --> 00:26:58.987
Like, I want somebody that I can trust.
420
00:26:59.047 --> 00:27:02.672
Like, I don't want some guy that just, you know, doesn't know what he's doing.
421
00:27:03.856 --> 00:27:06.038
Yeah, like I think there's pros and cons to both.
422
00:27:06.738 --> 00:27:15.123
If you can get someone that you can go from internal, usually they have a higher retention, usually their success rate is higher, especially if you're moving them up inside the company.
423
00:27:15.523 --> 00:27:15.643
Right?
424
00:27:15.663 --> 00:27:18.505
It's like I'm always trying to hire my general manager from my technicians.
425
00:27:19.305 --> 00:27:22.507
And I'm always trying to hire like even outside of just my locations.
426
00:27:22.527 --> 00:27:24.989
Like I'm trying to hire managers for people that started at the bottom.
427
00:27:25.489 --> 00:27:26.409
It's good for culture.
428
00:27:26.510 --> 00:27:29.091
It's good for people to see that there is a next stage of their career.
429
00:27:29.111 --> 00:27:30.252
There's somewhere to move into.
430
00:27:30.752 --> 00:27:38.077
The downsides are you are going to pay an ignorance tax because they don't have the experience at that managerial level or at that level that you're expecting.
431
00:27:38.477 --> 00:27:40.378
And so it's like, which one do you want?
432
00:27:40.758 --> 00:27:48.123
If you had no time and you had lots of money, I'd probably just go hire someone, overpay them a little bit and get them in so that you can take it off your plate.
433
00:27:48.143 --> 00:27:48.463
Right.
434
00:27:48.903 --> 00:27:49.143
Right.
435
00:27:49.603 --> 00:27:52.384
If you're like, hey, I'm willing to spend a little time, make sure they're a good fit.
436
00:27:52.804 --> 00:27:53.605
They're in the field.
437
00:27:53.665 --> 00:27:55.105
Then I move them up into team leader.
438
00:27:55.846 --> 00:27:59.467
I would I incline to go that direction more and invest a little more time into it.
439
00:28:00.087 --> 00:28:00.447
I got you.
440
00:28:00.727 --> 00:28:10.271
And then the only other thing I had a question about is as far as running ads or what is your best best bang for your buck, basically for as far as ads?
441
00:28:11.307 --> 00:28:16.253
Every single market is slightly different, whether it be Facebook or Google or yard signs, door hangers.
442
00:28:16.873 --> 00:28:23.561
The vast majority of people just need to do a test, figure out the top two, and then just keep refining it and making it better and better and better.
443
00:28:24.362 --> 00:28:31.009
So our first door hanger, when we made it like six or seven years ago, it performed at 20% of what it does now.
444
00:28:31.850 --> 00:28:32.630
So it's 5x.
445
00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:33.731
It's five times better now.
446
00:28:34.111 --> 00:28:38.032
So if I would have just wrote it off five, six years ago, I'm like, ah, it's not that great.
447
00:28:38.532 --> 00:28:40.053
Yeah, I agree.
448
00:28:40.133 --> 00:28:41.153
$150 is not a great customer.
449
00:28:41.173 --> 00:28:42.633
I couldn't cost, but now it's 30.
450
00:28:43.474 --> 00:28:43.674
Yeah.
451
00:28:43.954 --> 00:28:50.556
So again, it's just refining and doing more and better of what you're already doing is usually where people fail and they skip around from marketing thing to the thing.
452
00:28:50.576 --> 00:28:52.096
Instead of being like, we tested it.
453
00:28:52.136 --> 00:28:53.237
We got a good starting point.
454
00:28:53.277 --> 00:28:54.277
These are top two or three.
455
00:28:54.517 --> 00:28:56.338
Let's just make these better and better and better every year.
456
00:28:57.078 --> 00:28:57.258
Yep.
457
00:28:57.478 --> 00:28:57.698
Okay.
458
00:28:58.517 --> 00:28:59.058
Sounds good.
459
00:28:59.078 --> 00:28:59.259
Cool.
460
00:28:59.941 --> 00:29:02.948
Make sure if you ever have questions, the mastermind happens every week.
461
00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:05.635
So I just finished recording one this morning.
462
00:29:05.675 --> 00:29:06.457
It'll go up tomorrow.
463
00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:10.427
But you can always submit questions there, and I'll make sure I get back to those.
464
00:29:10.567 --> 00:29:12.492
And we'll see you inside the Copa universe.
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In this video, we're going to be talking to home service business owners about how you can make sure that when it comes to your marriage, you're on the same page.
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Dealing with a spouse.
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Okay.
4
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All right.
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We're also going to be talking about hiring your first employee and how to bridge that gap from solo operator to a manager.
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So I lost my first employee and it was pretty ugly.
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Like it was a friend of mine and like we no longer talk.
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We're also going to talk about leaving your nine to five to actually grow and scale a million dollar home service business.
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You will grow a business to that size again, working 50 hours a week.
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This is an introduction call that I have with all new members at HomeWorks.
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So if you're interested in joining, go to home.works and we'll see you on the other side.
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So right now, I'm currently working a nine-to-five job, and this year I've done $75,000 in revenue.
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So the thought next year is there's two options.
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Either keep doing my nine-to-five while I hire somebody, or I quit my job and hire somebody also, and the two of us go do it.
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Kind of in your opinion, would it slow me down more if I just tried to stay working at my nine-to-five, or should I just...
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pull the bandaid off and go.
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So it will 100% slow you down.
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It's a function of risk, right?
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If you don't have that slowdown of working nine to five, will you grow the business more and replace your current wage, right?
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And so if you don't mind me asking, what's your take home from your nine to five?
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It's about 100%.
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Yeah, that's well paying, right?
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So my thought process of, can I pay someone 50 grand to go do the work that you would do?
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They're not going to work as fast and as efficiently as you.
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I would put them on P4P, but if you pay someone 50 or 60 grand, you still make 100 grand net.
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That might be a good move as an intermediary between you going full time.
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This is now that we assume risk, right?
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So if you were more risk prone and you have plenty of cash, you might make the jump earlier knowing you'll grow the business a year faster.
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And that's kind of what I've done is like, I've lowered my personal bills and all that stuff as low as I could get them.
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And I have a good little safety net.
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So it's like, I'm kind of up in the air, but I just don't.
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Like a hundred take home from your W2.
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Let's just say after, you know, you know, taxes up, it's 80.
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You're going to have to make 160 to 180,000 in the business.
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Right.
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And so you have to double the business.
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And so your level of confidence in that and then the risk associated with that jump is what you're trying to balance.
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And that usually comes with how much cash you have set aside.
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Also, by bringing your personal expenses way down, you likely have reduced the threshold of how much you need to grow the business to cover your personal expenses.
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And so this comes down to, do you need to like, if, for example, if I was in your shoes and I had a wife and a few kids, I'd probably be a little slower, assuming I didn't have a hundred grand sitting in the bank that I need to just like, let's take one more year and just grow sustainably flip side.
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Next spring rush, you could very well double or triple the business if you just focus all of your time and attention on it.
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Yeah.
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And that's kind of where I'm at is the focus thing.
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It,
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If I could really focus, I think I could turn some things on and get going.
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What does your wife think?
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She wants me home more.
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And right now I'm not home because I'm doing nine to five and then I'm doing both.
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If she had to choose between one, which one does she want?
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Does she want you to do full-time the business or just stick with your nine to five?
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She'd want me to go to the business because she could see the passion and all that stuff.
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Yeah, just do that.
53
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Okay.
54
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My second question, if I can, what are some common pitfalls that you see for people making that switch to being fully self-employed and then some common pitfalls for hiring their first employee?
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That's why I asked you about your wife.
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That's the number one reason.
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Because usually, if the spouse is risk adverse, and the entrepreneur is going off and doing their thing, they make a bunch of risky decisions, i.e.
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getting rid of a stable job that's well-paying.
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And then there's fractures in the relationship, which then kills the business, or the business struggles and then it fractures the relationship.
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So her support is why I said like that's the cosine that you need because she will – assuming the expectation has been set that, hey, it might be a little bit dicey for three to six months and you're not going to see me anymore for six months.
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Because during Spring Rush, I need to get the business to the point where I can take money out of it and it's going to take me the same amount of you not seeing me for six months during Spring Rush.
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After that, then I can commit to like we can dial it back and then the whole objective of this business gets accomplished, which is you see me more and we make the same or even more money down the road.
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And it's like, that's why I asked that question.
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Yeah.
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And what was the next part?
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Was it about hiring?
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Sorry.
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Some common pitfalls for your first hire.
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Honestly, a lot of times first hires are good because they're really good.
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It's usually your second and third employees I see people falter with.
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Because the first employee, you're with them all day long.
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So it's the system of eyeballs on person that makes it relatively easy to manage.
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Because you can see everything they're doing.
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And they're not working hard.
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You just tell them.
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And they know you're the boss.
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You don't need pay for performance because you're with them all the time.
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And so it's usually when second and third employees come that's actually the most difficult.
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So pitfalls I see on first employees is under communication of the expectations of where the company is going.
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And you end up losing that first employee because they're solid when you get to two and three employees.
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And now you're no longer working alongside them.
82
00:05:49.700 --> 00:05:52.582
So I lost my first employee and it was pretty ugly.
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Like it was a friend of mine and like we no longer talk.
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And it's because I didn't set the expectation.
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I'm going to go to this business and I'm not going to be working in this truck with you forever.
86
00:06:01.127 --> 00:06:04.089
And so you really like that now, but like down the road, that's not going to be the case.
87
00:06:05.390 --> 00:06:05.650
Okay.
88
00:06:06.690 --> 00:06:18.978
My question is, there's a fertilizing company in our city, Springfield, Missouri, really premier, Christian-based, value-based company that has a very high price price,
89
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value point type thing.
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00:06:23.880 --> 00:06:27.323
And I'm thinking of setting up an offer.
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They don't do any mowing.
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They just do fertilizing, landscaping, and tree service.
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And I'm doing some sort of affiliate program with them for mowing clients and mowing in the lawn maintenance side of it.
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And I'm curious how you would recommend to go about that.
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Yeah, so do you do treatments at all right now?
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00:06:51.825 --> 00:06:53.008
No, and I don't plan to.
97
00:06:53.832 --> 00:07:02.999
I think you could probably get away here with just doing a referral strategy instead of an affiliate because you have customers they need and they have customers you want.
98
00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:06.102
And so I think this could be more of a referral situation.
99
00:07:06.162 --> 00:07:07.063
It's easy to track.
100
00:07:07.123 --> 00:07:10.806
It's like, hey, when you have a treatment client that you don't want, you give it to them.
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00:07:10.946 --> 00:07:13.528
When they have a mowing customer that they don't want, they hand it to you.
102
00:07:13.988 --> 00:07:19.352
And because those of you don't do the service, money shouldn't have to flow hands and just keep it simple.
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If you go the affiliate strategy, it just becomes a little more difficult because it's tracking, it's retention.
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There's a lot of things that will play into what you're even willing to spend.
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I would say if you want to grease the gears of the referral engine, you would actually start giving your customers an incentive for them to move over.
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So, for example, you say, hey, you signed up for mowing.
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Welcome to the club.
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If you would like to do treatments, we don't offer that, but our affiliate partner does or our partner does.
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And if you sign up using this link, you'll get $100 off or your first treatment free.
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Then it's very easy for them to track that as well.
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00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:10.045
And that's the biggest problem I see with referral programs is you're getting customers from them that you don't know about that it's a referral and they're getting customers from you that, that you, that they don't know it came from you.
112
00:08:10.686 --> 00:08:13.047
So I want all credit when you're,
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I give someone a referral because I'm building the will and hopefully they're giving.
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00:08:17.372 --> 00:08:25.101
So I would try to set up more like what's the offer we're willing to give each other's customers in order to make this easier to track.
115
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Yeah.
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00:08:27.323 --> 00:08:32.027
So if they click a button, it goes to your form or a specific form you make specifically for their customers.
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00:08:32.268 --> 00:08:34.630
You could put both of your logos at the top of the form.
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It could be in Google Form.
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00:08:36.912 --> 00:08:39.695
It could be a – you can just get as creative as you want with that.
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But I think that's the best way to grease the gears of the referral engine as well as make it easier to track.
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If you're trying to get started and you don't really want to spend a bunch of money on software yet, at Copilot, you can have up to 50 customers completely free inside the software and be able to do estimates, invoices, the whole nine yards.
122
00:08:57.506 --> 00:09:03.268
Also, if you're under 18 years old, you can get the pro version for free without that limited number of customers.
123
00:09:03.568 --> 00:09:09.931
So go check it out, copilot.com, book a call with Christian, head of our sales team, and he'll make sure it's a good fit for you.
124
00:09:09.951 --> 00:09:11.572
A couple more questions.
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One is in relation to the
126
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Dealing with a spouse.
127
00:09:17.359 --> 00:09:17.879
So I've.
128
00:09:18.239 --> 00:09:18.999
Those are strong words.
129
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Dealing with a spouse.
130
00:09:20.379 --> 00:09:20.679
Okay.
131
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All right.
132
00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:22.700
Not dealing with a spouse.
133
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:24.200
I guess negotiating would be the word.
134
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Oh, negotiating.
135
00:09:25.421 --> 00:09:25.801
Okay.
136
00:09:26.161 --> 00:09:26.701
Let's do it.
137
00:09:26.821 --> 00:09:27.081
All right.
138
00:09:27.341 --> 00:09:30.102
So I grew up in a lawn care family.
139
00:09:30.722 --> 00:09:31.582
Never scaled.
140
00:09:31.862 --> 00:09:35.723
Our family always worked from five to nine every day all the time.
141
00:09:36.723 --> 00:09:38.784
And so that was all I was used to.
142
00:09:39.464 --> 00:09:43.745
My wife came from a family where her father was a computer programmer and he could be around
143
00:09:45.193 --> 00:09:47.514
And we've been running a business for three years now.
144
00:09:48.455 --> 00:09:51.937
Sold a bigger, we were doing about 500K last year.
145
00:09:51.997 --> 00:09:53.158
Sold it because I was never home.
146
00:09:53.798 --> 00:09:56.220
And everything just was not working out very well.
147
00:09:57.540 --> 00:10:03.544
And I'm trying to be home a decent amount with the kids and the wife.
148
00:10:04.464 --> 00:10:08.407
While still growing, we started a new location around probably 100K this year.
149
00:10:09.507 --> 00:10:10.708
And wanting to grow a lot.
150
00:10:12.363 --> 00:10:15.685
to the point of being free and being able to buy back our time.
151
00:10:16.466 --> 00:10:16.646
Yep.
152
00:10:17.146 --> 00:10:19.949
What's the best way you see to do that?
153
00:10:19.969 --> 00:10:21.029
Totally.
154
00:10:21.410 --> 00:10:27.815
So just so I'm clear, you sold the $500,000 in revenue business because it was taking all of your time.
155
00:10:28.996 --> 00:10:29.817
Is that the case?
156
00:10:30.377 --> 00:10:30.637
Okay.
157
00:10:30.717 --> 00:10:30.917
Yes.
158
00:10:31.238 --> 00:10:32.839
And was that business profitable?
159
00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:37.823
About 30% profitable, but I was working in the field still a little bit.
160
00:10:38.702 --> 00:10:39.022
Got it.
161
00:10:39.262 --> 00:10:45.644
And so it was still sucking seven days a week of energy that was causing a rift and you decided like, Hey, I just have to get rid of the business.
162
00:10:46.564 --> 00:10:46.744
Yeah.
163
00:10:47.444 --> 00:10:53.926
How are we building the current business this, this year differently to where the, that's not going to be the same outcome as we scale.
164
00:10:55.606 --> 00:10:57.326
Well, trying to have higher prices.
165
00:10:58.026 --> 00:11:00.847
Um, I'm currently the only one here.
166
00:11:00.867 --> 00:11:02.888
I'm doing all the work and just charging a lot for it.
167
00:11:03.988 --> 00:11:04.388
And then.
168
00:11:05.179 --> 00:11:09.081
trying to grow a little bit more sustainably instead of just grow to grow.
169
00:11:10.122 --> 00:11:10.382
Got it.
170
00:11:10.882 --> 00:11:20.728
And do you have a chunk of cash from the sale of the $500,000 business, or is that basically you got out of the debt and you just needed to get yourself some breathing room and save the relationship?
171
00:11:20.768 --> 00:11:29.193
We're on a payment plan with the company that bought us out for 8% of the retained service for the next two years, the last year and then two more years.
172
00:11:30.036 --> 00:11:31.016
Last year and two more years.
173
00:11:31.076 --> 00:11:31.296
Okay.
174
00:11:31.657 --> 00:11:35.978
And is that what, like $2,000, $1,500 to $2,000 a month?
175
00:11:36.758 --> 00:11:38.499
Depending on the month, it's like $1,500 to $2,000.
176
00:11:39.959 --> 00:11:40.719
What does she want?
177
00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:42.280
She wants time with you.
178
00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.421
Why did she allow you to start this business again?
179
00:11:44.441 --> 00:11:48.322
Because I was really restless when I was not doing business.
180
00:11:49.122 --> 00:11:49.882
So what did that...
181
00:11:50.062 --> 00:11:58.025
I have too many dreams and too much experience with business to go work for somebody on a nine-to-five.
182
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.882
And I have no college degree, so I can't get it.
183
00:12:01.442 --> 00:12:03.103
I mean, I don't say I can't.
184
00:12:03.364 --> 00:12:06.386
It would be harder for me to get a $100,000 a year job or something like that.
185
00:12:07.107 --> 00:12:07.467
Makes sense.
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So when you were negotiating, quote unquote, this, like I'm starting this new business, what did you say that she's like, yes, I support that?
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Or does she not really support this and she still kind of wishes you just go get a job?
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She fully supports it.
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What the struggle is, is right now I'm prioritizing family time.
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and trying to work maybe 10 hours a day, five days a week.
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And my struggle is that's working all right, but I'm trying to grow to a point where I can have employees and
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be running something that's not just a job, it's a business.
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So running a business at five days a week for 10 hours a day, you will grow the business.
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You have the skill of growing to 500,000.
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We know that.
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You learn things from that and skills that will allow you to be able to grow this business more efficiently, probably faster than you do before.
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And more importantly, have the systems in place that when you're at 500,000, you're not working seven days a week.
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You will grow a business to that size again, working 50 hours a week.
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If you work 70 hours a week, you will probably get there faster.
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The question is, when you get there, will you still have that relationship?
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And so in my two cents here is you will get there, and this is a function of time, I would recommend, and I think you would agree, like let's not try to squeeze getting to your goals in an extra year or two, and then losing the relationship.
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Because that will actually hurt the business more than you just take an extra year or two
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and working at 50 hours a week, 50 hours a week is sufficient to grow a business.
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Are you going to be able to get if you did 75 hours, you get there 50% faster, assuming that you don't have any sort of drop off and efficiency of your work, which usually does happen.
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So I would think this is a function of time and then setting your expectation that this is going to take longer than you would prefer.
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But losing that would actually derail you and cause way more pain as well as like time in the long in the long run.
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100% No, that's a great answer.
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And one follow-up question, I don't want to take too much time, but I've been doing this for a while, and I feel like my service is valuable and do a good job and stuff.
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And instead of following your kind of roadmap that you follow at Augusta, where you get to 500,000 and raise prices, I'm just getting to a capacity for myself and raising prices as I get capacity.
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Do you see a price point where raising prices...
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As a solo operator, you raise them too much.
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Where when you get employees, the customer are like, well, you raised the prices all this much, and now you're adding employees.
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Do you see a problem with that or a tap on what you should raise your budget hourly rate
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No, just know that it's inversely correlated.
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So if I raise my prices a lot, it's going to be harder for me to grow the business.
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So you might be making $250,000 as a solo operator.
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And there are people doing that because they just stay in profit mode and kept raising prices, doesn't make it 150 to 200 bucks an hour.
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The challenge.
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Challenging part is like you might then go run ads because you're like, I'm going to go over there to grow this business and get employed because I don't want to be in the field all the time.
220
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And then you run into this wall of no one's accepting these new prices.
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And the reason I've been able to get to this price is because I spent 10 years getting one or two new customers a month, just replacing churn.
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And then if I get over more than that, I just raise prices again.
223
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High prices will cause you to grow slower.
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And so what you want to be careful of is growing so high in terms of price and seeking every dollar out of profit and then switching to growth mode.
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So when you switch from profit mode to growth mode, you have to realize that if you don't lower your price, your close rate will be lower.
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Here's the thing.
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The vast majority of people are so afraid of that so they don't raise prices because like one day I'll go into growth mode.
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And what happens, they're afraid of what I just talked about.
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Like, I raise my prices too high, people will keep saying no.
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Here's the thing, if your prices are 50% higher, let's go $80 an hour versus 120.
231
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Will more people say no to your estimates?
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Yes.
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If you charge 50% more, would you be able to spend more money on ads?
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Would you be able to drive two to three times more leads because you have the ad budget to be able to do it?
235
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Now, all of a sudden, if you spent 20% of revenue, which is crazy, 20% of revenue on ads, but you increase your prices so much over the course of a few years being in profit mode as a solo operator, it actually makes sense.
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Like I could still go into growth mode and just do it with paid ads.
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So what I would say, Adam, is you can be in profit mode as a solo operator, go very, very premium and very expensive.
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And in the back of your mind, like, man, there's no way I can scale this.
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People will say no to my estimates.
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I will never be able to get three, four, five employees.
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I would beg to differ because what you will then do when you will go back into growth mode, yes, your close rate will be low, but you'll have the budget to go spend on ads and drive traffic.
242
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Then you will switch as much as possible to instant quotes or over the phone estimates.
243
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And then that will push your close rate back up.
244
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And so the trouble I have with people that go way, way premium, like this is a bad problem to have.
245
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And your close rate is literally 10% to 15%.
246
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The reason I have a problem with that is because now you're spending a whole bunch of money getting estimates out and only 10% are getting accepted.
247
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It's very inefficient.
248
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But what you can do if you go back into growth mode is switch to instant pricing or over the phone estimates and having someone answer the phone and doing pricing for you.
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Throttle ads is,
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And then now there's no drag on your estimator or you doing a bunch more ad and sending out quotes.
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A hundred percent.
252
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So I would say this is three phases.
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One, get to premium, get to where you're raising prices and you're at capacity as a solo operator, making very good money.
254
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Then second phase, change the way I do estimates to get on like when the copy and paste millionaire goes from like in-person estimates, drive-by estimates, over the phone estimates, and then instant quotes.
255
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I'm going to be going this way as much as possible so that when phase three, I turn on the ads because I now have the margin to do so, I actually have a decent close rate.
256
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Because on instant quotes, once we have it in homeworks, this will be good timing for you.
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A card on file and accept the job is 100% close rate of people going into that funnel.
258
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Right?
259
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And so that's how you can get around it.
260
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So I would not be afraid of that.
261
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This is why a lot of people will not go too premium.
262
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They're afraid that one day they'll go back into growth mode.
263
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And I just tell them, if you spent 20% or 30% of that extra increase in price on ads, you'd be able to backfill your schedule with just as many leads.
264
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Perfect.
265
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You're awesome.
266
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Thank you.
267
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You're the man.
268
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Jeff, Blue Sky Ferndale.
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He's like literally a couple miles away from me.
270
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Let's go.
271
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For a winter services, roof and gutters and Christmas light type stuff.
272
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I don't have a problem myself doing roofs and gutters.
273
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Although some of the pitches on the roofs around here, I don't like.
274
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But how do you, how do you deal with that in terms of your client tell, you know,
275
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And plus with your employees, some guys don't like ladders.
276
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And it kind of, I mean, I love to put it on there because it's a good deal.
277
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It's a good income source, but it's difficult.
278
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Yeah.
279
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So like, you know, I know your market pretty good.
280
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You don't need Christmas lights.
281
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You can stay busy very well throughout November in our market with winter services.
282
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Now, if you're going to start doing gutters, we just make it really simple.
283
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It's like we won't get anything above your first story.
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That way the biggest ladder they're getting on is a 10 foot extension ladder leaned up against a gutter.
285
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And again, we're just, we're just inspecting the gutters for winter services.
286
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So they don't have to like move it along.
287
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They just go into the downspout and making sure that's still flowing.
288
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And so that would be like the lowest, lowest lift change.
289
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Okay.
290
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That's it for now.
291
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Awesome.
292
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We got a few more.
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We got Jared up next.
294
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Hey, Mike, how you doing?
295
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Good, brother.
296
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How you doing?
297
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Love your shirt.
298
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Thanks, man.
299
00:19:55.247 --> 00:19:57.728
So Mike actually is about winter services as well.
300
00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:01.750
So we kind of convert our, I'm in Cincinnati.
301
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Our last week of mowing is usually the week of Halloween.
302
00:20:06.032 --> 00:20:10.855
And then the first week in November, this was the first year we really did winter services.
303
00:20:10.895 --> 00:20:12.976
We usually do leave for removal, all that stuff.
304
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But our problem has been,
305
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Customers not being, I guess, totally satisfied if we're not getting all the leaves on the property in the amount of time that we're there for mowing.
306
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And then now we're dealing with snow.
307
00:20:28.192 --> 00:20:28.992
So they're not liking that.
308
00:20:29.392 --> 00:20:35.053
And we so it's kind of a two party question if we should, you know, move the service up if it does snow.
309
00:20:36.093 --> 00:20:41.214
Like actually our winter service schedule falls on this coming Monday.
310
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But we just got snow yesterday.
311
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So.
312
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do I move that visit up and then restart?
313
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Or how does that kind of, I haven't read the book yet.
314
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That's my January to-do list.
315
00:20:55.077 --> 00:20:55.397
Oh, okay.
316
00:20:55.437 --> 00:20:57.198
I was going to say, I was like, this will get answered in the book.
317
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Okay.
318
00:20:57.718 --> 00:21:00.159
So when you read the book, it'll answer a lot of these questions.
319
00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:07.642
So first off, it's how you communicate to the customer about what winter services really is.
320
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The more you communicate with them, and like, for example, my location has hundreds.
321
00:21:12.484 --> 00:21:14.285
We go one by one by one and call them.
322
00:21:15.028 --> 00:21:19.691
We go one by one by one if they don't pick up and we make Loom videos and show the pricing difference.
323
00:21:20.332 --> 00:21:21.953
This leads to way less confusion.
324
00:21:22.413 --> 00:21:27.336
Also higher adoption rate simply because the value's there.
325
00:21:27.697 --> 00:21:30.659
Like once they see it and understand it, they're good with it.
326
00:21:31.159 --> 00:21:38.164
If you just, like we used to do this, we just rolled right into Windows Services, all sorts of complaints, un-misunderstanding what included, et cetera.
327
00:21:38.184 --> 00:21:44.028
So I would definitely go through the book and like move up higher levels of communication on the upfront.
328
00:21:44.048 --> 00:21:44.328
Yeah.
329
00:21:44.868 --> 00:21:49.634
And then in terms of like leaf cleanups, for example, you don't get all the leaf done.
330
00:21:50.074 --> 00:21:52.437
That's a perfect opportunity to upsell them into a cleanup.
331
00:21:53.057 --> 00:21:58.323
And how we just make sure on the upfront before we even when we're selling them winter services, we just make it very clear.
332
00:21:58.544 --> 00:21:59.324
Here's how it's going to work.
333
00:21:59.344 --> 00:22:00.326
We're going to chip away at things.
334
00:22:00.946 --> 00:22:04.270
And if we hit a point where you're like, I need a cleanup, let us know.
335
00:22:05.391 --> 00:22:06.211
I.e., they're mad.
336
00:22:07.091 --> 00:22:09.392
We'll get you an estimate to get it right back up to zero.
337
00:22:09.592 --> 00:22:21.534
But you can just say winter services is, A, a way to be able to maintain your fall cleanup and the look of your property throughout the entire year, or B, save money by allowing us to chip away at your fall cleanup throughout the entire year.
338
00:22:21.994 --> 00:22:22.734
Off season, I should say.
339
00:22:23.394 --> 00:22:23.874
Okay.
340
00:22:24.254 --> 00:22:25.915
So it's really about communication.
341
00:22:28.015 --> 00:22:29.495
The higher level you go, the better.
342
00:22:29.515 --> 00:22:31.676
If you just do email, you're gonna have a lot of problems.
343
00:22:32.056 --> 00:22:32.956
If you do a phone call,
344
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Better.
345
00:22:34.457 --> 00:22:41.200
If you do a loom video and actually show them their property versus a comparable price and what they're saving and explain everything better.
346
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If you go in person with a whiteboard and walk them through it, the best.
347
00:22:45.342 --> 00:22:46.943
So like there's levels here, right?
348
00:22:47.463 --> 00:22:51.985
And then I would say in terms of snow, we have a kind of a split of two different ways that people do it.
349
00:22:52.205 --> 00:22:56.007
One is they will just pull the next winter service visit forward.
350
00:22:57.243 --> 00:22:59.264
Some people will just pull the next visit forward.
351
00:22:59.284 --> 00:23:04.666
The problem is if you have six events in seven days, you just blew through all of your winter services, right?
352
00:23:05.967 --> 00:23:08.948
I prefer it to be winter services are separate from snow.
353
00:23:10.169 --> 00:23:11.009
Here's all the things we do.
354
00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:14.710
And if snow is present and we're there, yeah, we'll get rid of it.
355
00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:16.211
We'll put down ice, et cetera.
356
00:23:16.631 --> 00:23:19.753
But if you want to be on the snow route, different service.
357
00:23:20.493 --> 00:23:24.134
Yeah, that's kind of what I was struggling with just because like I said, it's coming up
358
00:23:26.076 --> 00:23:31.079
We've got people that, so before we just did the Black Friday deal with Copilot.
359
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:32.099
So I'm still getting into there.
360
00:23:32.439 --> 00:23:41.444
I'm coming from Jobber and we used the MailChimp email blast and got people signed up with Snow that aren't our normal mowing customers.
361
00:23:42.244 --> 00:23:46.586
So I'm like, they're paying a premium versus people that are doing winter services.
362
00:23:47.467 --> 00:23:48.868
I kind of was bad on that.
363
00:23:49.108 --> 00:23:49.388
So yeah.
364
00:23:50.042 --> 00:23:55.528
So what I would do on your winter services comparison chart that I'm going to communicate to every customer.
365
00:23:55.549 --> 00:24:00.554
I'm going to have, here's the cost of your fall cleanup and your spring cleanup and snow services.
366
00:24:01.719 --> 00:24:04.581
And then if you want, you could then package snow into winter services.
367
00:24:05.622 --> 00:24:05.782
Okay.
368
00:24:05.802 --> 00:24:09.585
Or you say, here's fall cleanup and spring cleanup versus winter services.
369
00:24:09.765 --> 00:24:13.508
And also, by the way, if you want to get on snow service, there's this other thing.
370
00:24:14.188 --> 00:24:16.890
The reason I do that is because some people will just go straight to snow.
371
00:24:17.691 --> 00:24:18.471
Like, I don't want the fall.
372
00:24:18.531 --> 00:24:20.353
I don't want the winter services thing, but can I get snow?
373
00:24:21.668 --> 00:24:24.571
Again, this is going to take three to four minutes to explain to someone.
374
00:24:25.272 --> 00:24:33.660
But again, if you do that for even a couple hundred people, it's a couple days worth of work for massive improvement to the revenue over the offseason.
375
00:24:34.294 --> 00:24:38.899
So do you recommend selling this more like in the October timeframe or is this?
376
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:39.500
Yes.
377
00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:45.167
As you do not want people canceling mowing service prematurely without you have pitched this already.
378
00:24:45.187 --> 00:24:47.429
So we usually go six weeks before the end of our mowing season.
379
00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:48.150
Okay.
380
00:24:48.671 --> 00:24:54.517
So like I would actually, if I was you like end of September, because what happens is you're getting some people to hit their October 1st bill.
381
00:24:55.138 --> 00:24:56.819
second week bill, and they're canceling.
382
00:24:57.159 --> 00:25:00.282
I don't want to be on the 31st being like, oh, by the way, there's winter services.
383
00:25:00.402 --> 00:25:05.725
I went like six weeks before, so they don't even think about canceling because I've already explained to them we just roll in this other thing.
384
00:25:06.326 --> 00:25:07.527
Okay, cool.
385
00:25:07.607 --> 00:25:10.469
And that goes for people that don't even really do clean.
386
00:25:10.489 --> 00:25:17.394
Like we have a lot of mowing customers that do their own mulch and cleanups, and you're still trying to sell them on that stuff, right?
387
00:25:17.454 --> 00:25:17.694
Yeah.
388
00:25:18.237 --> 00:25:26.506
I am, and then I'm also realizing that you have this add-on of snow services that you get to kind of pitch them as well.
389
00:25:26.707 --> 00:25:31.853
So we have some people that will watch the winter services, and they'll be like, yes, I want winter services, and I want the snow.
390
00:25:32.353 --> 00:25:35.377
We have other people like, don't like the winter services thing, but I didn't know you offered snow.
391
00:25:35.457 --> 00:25:36.117
Can I just get that?
392
00:25:36.137 --> 00:25:37.479
Okay, cool.
393
00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:38.260
Thanks.
394
00:25:38.832 --> 00:25:42.454
Yep, and that kind of evens out your revenue too, so that way you have winter service revenue.
395
00:25:42.694 --> 00:25:47.017
But when it snows, you actually have a peak of – like you have something for the crew to do.
396
00:25:47.037 --> 00:25:47.717
Yeah.
397
00:25:47.877 --> 00:25:55.242
And then you can go back to winter services even if the snow stays on the ground for two weeks because part of our winter services is we put salt down on the steps.
398
00:25:55.902 --> 00:25:57.503
We will shovel the walkways.
399
00:25:57.643 --> 00:25:59.084
We just aren't doing like a plowing job.
400
00:25:59.644 --> 00:25:59.884
Yeah.
401
00:26:00.525 --> 00:26:00.765
Okay.
402
00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:03.100
Awesome.
403
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:03.500
All right.
404
00:26:03.560 --> 00:26:07.321
We got time for, well, we have no time, but let's go ahead and do two more.
405
00:26:07.401 --> 00:26:07.601
Okay.
406
00:26:07.621 --> 00:26:10.762
So I had kind of a real quick question.
407
00:26:11.582 --> 00:26:13.903
I'm trying to, we're scaling pretty fast.
408
00:26:14.143 --> 00:26:15.523
So this is our second year in business.
409
00:26:15.743 --> 00:26:18.644
I've owned another business before, sold that, and that's kind of where we're at now.
410
00:26:19.164 --> 00:26:23.805
We're trying, so I'm day-to-day in the field running my crew.
411
00:26:24.365 --> 00:26:26.306
I'm trying to step out of that and hire somebody.
412
00:26:26.666 --> 00:26:29.966
And I kind of had the same question as one of the previous guys,
413
00:26:33.147 --> 00:26:47.762
Do you think it's better to hire somebody that has done the same kind of work or is it better to hire somebody that's kind of fresh and younger and could grow with a business and kind of be able to train them into kind of that role and mold them to where they should be?
414
00:26:48.835 --> 00:26:49.796
Yeah, like the manager role.
415
00:26:49.816 --> 00:26:50.617
Is that what you're talking about?
416
00:26:50.817 --> 00:26:51.098
Yeah.
417
00:26:51.138 --> 00:26:54.742
Like, I mean, as far as crew leader, if that like, because there's some decision.
418
00:26:54.762 --> 00:26:57.185
I mean, you're talking about trees over people's houses.
419
00:26:57.225 --> 00:26:58.987
Like, I want somebody that I can trust.
420
00:26:59.047 --> 00:27:02.672
Like, I don't want some guy that just, you know, doesn't know what he's doing.
421
00:27:03.856 --> 00:27:06.038
Yeah, like I think there's pros and cons to both.
422
00:27:06.738 --> 00:27:15.123
If you can get someone that you can go from internal, usually they have a higher retention, usually their success rate is higher, especially if you're moving them up inside the company.
423
00:27:15.523 --> 00:27:15.643
Right?
424
00:27:15.663 --> 00:27:18.505
It's like I'm always trying to hire my general manager from my technicians.
425
00:27:19.305 --> 00:27:22.507
And I'm always trying to hire like even outside of just my locations.
426
00:27:22.527 --> 00:27:24.989
Like I'm trying to hire managers for people that started at the bottom.
427
00:27:25.489 --> 00:27:26.409
It's good for culture.
428
00:27:26.510 --> 00:27:29.091
It's good for people to see that there is a next stage of their career.
429
00:27:29.111 --> 00:27:30.252
There's somewhere to move into.
430
00:27:30.752 --> 00:27:38.077
The downsides are you are going to pay an ignorance tax because they don't have the experience at that managerial level or at that level that you're expecting.
431
00:27:38.477 --> 00:27:40.378
And so it's like, which one do you want?
432
00:27:40.758 --> 00:27:48.123
If you had no time and you had lots of money, I'd probably just go hire someone, overpay them a little bit and get them in so that you can take it off your plate.
433
00:27:48.143 --> 00:27:48.463
Right.
434
00:27:48.903 --> 00:27:49.143
Right.
435
00:27:49.603 --> 00:27:52.384
If you're like, hey, I'm willing to spend a little time, make sure they're a good fit.
436
00:27:52.804 --> 00:27:53.605
They're in the field.
437
00:27:53.665 --> 00:27:55.105
Then I move them up into team leader.
438
00:27:55.846 --> 00:27:59.467
I would I incline to go that direction more and invest a little more time into it.
439
00:28:00.087 --> 00:28:00.447
I got you.
440
00:28:00.727 --> 00:28:10.271
And then the only other thing I had a question about is as far as running ads or what is your best best bang for your buck, basically for as far as ads?
441
00:28:11.307 --> 00:28:16.253
Every single market is slightly different, whether it be Facebook or Google or yard signs, door hangers.
442
00:28:16.873 --> 00:28:23.561
The vast majority of people just need to do a test, figure out the top two, and then just keep refining it and making it better and better and better.
443
00:28:24.362 --> 00:28:31.009
So our first door hanger, when we made it like six or seven years ago, it performed at 20% of what it does now.
444
00:28:31.850 --> 00:28:32.630
So it's 5x.
445
00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:33.731
It's five times better now.
446
00:28:34.111 --> 00:28:38.032
So if I would have just wrote it off five, six years ago, I'm like, ah, it's not that great.
447
00:28:38.532 --> 00:28:40.053
Yeah, I agree.
448
00:28:40.133 --> 00:28:41.153
$150 is not a great customer.
449
00:28:41.173 --> 00:28:42.633
I couldn't cost, but now it's 30.
450
00:28:43.474 --> 00:28:43.674
Yeah.
451
00:28:43.954 --> 00:28:50.556
So again, it's just refining and doing more and better of what you're already doing is usually where people fail and they skip around from marketing thing to the thing.
452
00:28:50.576 --> 00:28:52.096
Instead of being like, we tested it.
453
00:28:52.136 --> 00:28:53.237
We got a good starting point.
454
00:28:53.277 --> 00:28:54.277
These are top two or three.
455
00:28:54.517 --> 00:28:56.338
Let's just make these better and better and better every year.
456
00:28:57.078 --> 00:28:57.258
Yep.
457
00:28:57.478 --> 00:28:57.698
Okay.
458
00:28:58.517 --> 00:28:59.058
Sounds good.
459
00:28:59.078 --> 00:28:59.259
Cool.
460
00:28:59.941 --> 00:29:02.948
Make sure if you ever have questions, the mastermind happens every week.
461
00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:05.635
So I just finished recording one this morning.
462
00:29:05.675 --> 00:29:06.457
It'll go up tomorrow.
463
00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:10.427
But you can always submit questions there, and I'll make sure I get back to those.
464
00:29:10.567 --> 00:29:12.492
And we'll see you inside the Copa universe.
