The Culture Dividend: Why "Good Vibes" Are Actually Good Business

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As business owners, we love things where you just throw money at it and haven't the foggiest idea if that money is going to return, if that's an investment, or if we should just go out to the parking lot and light it on fire.
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Yeah, sure, I love that.
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It's my favorite.
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We have different businesses, I guess.
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No, the to us, there is a return on investment that you get with a good company culture.
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The problem is, is it's not something where you can go into your CFO and be like, hey, can you point that out to me?
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Yeah, here's it on our balance sheet.
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Right.
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Where is that column on the balance sheet?
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Um, so we're going to talk about like how you can justify a good company culture because it is justifiable.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it really is.
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And not just for the feel goods.
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Stay tuned.
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She's the CEO.
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He's the marketing and operations guy.
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If it's broken, you need the business fix.
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Are you excited about this topic?
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But I don't know where you're going first, so I'm just like, I am prepared with my notes because you told me to be prepared, so I am.
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To me, it's so funny because, I mean, this is something that we both invest so much time and effort and money into.
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Yes.
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And just.
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Yes.
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Personal.
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Like just it's sweat equity in culture.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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And it's a lot.
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Yeah.
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It's it's all those things.
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And then at the end of the day, you look at it and you're like, hey, that work.
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And it's funny because I can see how, like, so many business owners get soured on this.
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Yeah.
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Because you treat people so well.
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And if one person gets grumpy about something, suddenly you think, well, everyone's pissed off.
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Yes, that's not true.
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It's not.
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know, but sometimes people are just having a bad day.
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Yes.
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And just there's some people that are just miserable.
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There are.
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And usually those are the people that you should exit from your team.
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But we don't do that either.
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And sometimes, I mean, sometimes I get it.
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Some people have personality changes as they get older or whatever.
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But to me, what's what's so difficult about it is when you invest this time and as you said, sweat equity in someone and suddenly they're like, hey, taking a job someplace else.
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Yeah.
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You're like, you jerk.
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Yes.
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Don't you see these things that I have done for you beyond this?
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And when they do go to that new company and it doesn't work out, you're like, see?
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But you can't be like that.
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No. You cannot.
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And it's it.
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There's just so many ways that this is so easy.
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To have a negative mindset about.
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It is you need to keep those as inside thoughts, inside inside thoughts.
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Those are not outside thoughts.
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Those are not thoughts that you outwardly project.
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Not to your employees, maybe to another business owner.
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Maybe a group that you're in.
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Coach.
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Not your employees.
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Chrissy and I, we started this podcast merely as a therapy session for the both of us.
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And then we're like, we got stuff we need to talk about with other people.
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That being said, um, you can't track this like a Google ad.
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You can't know it's hard.
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Yeah, it's indirect, but it's massive.
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Um, and for me, the way when I start, when we I knew we were going to talk about this, I thought it's because it's two or three steps away from the balance sheet.
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Um, yeah, but let me say it runs right next to it.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
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It is concurrent.
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And the problem is, is it doesn't take long to see if you screw it up.
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You can see it in the balance sheet.
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You can see it in the balance sheet.
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But it's one of those things where you don't like there's not a direct dollar input.
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So it's tough to look at the dollars out on that?
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Yeah.
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That being said, the CEO clarity HR, because I know you see this in the HR scene.
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We do all of the time.
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A lot of it's selling people.
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On trying to understand why they need to pay for this.
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Yes.
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Oh, gosh.
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Yeah.
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No, that's I don't want that job.
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No. Um, what are some of the, like, hidden financial metrics and what are some of the things that like move when you've got a good culture?
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How can you?
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I mean, we all know that like, people come in there smiling.
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That's that's a better place to work.
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Laughter.
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It's always good.
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Right.
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Well.
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Group laughter.
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Group laughter.
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Not not not maniacal laughter.
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That's different.
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Not the diabolical person in the corner going.
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No.
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Right.
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Don't do that.
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We don't want that.
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How do you like.
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How do you see this?
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And how do you see the returns on it?
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So I like this question because I think that company culture is one of the most misunderstood assets in business.
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Oh, I totally agree.
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It's why we do this podcast.
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It is.
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It is because most owners treat this like an expense.
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It's something soft.
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It lives in HR.
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I really want to put HR in a corner.
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I don't want to have to talk to them.
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So when in reality, culture is one of the few things that truly compounds over time, like it is a significant dividend.
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And so you don't see culture in line item on your profit and loss.
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It's not going to be on your PNL, but you feel it everywhere.
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I mean, part of culture, having a good company culture is also why you like going to work every day.
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I mean, if you're like, I don't want to walk into the office, I want to deal with these people.
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Maybe your culture sucks and you need to work on it.
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So, I mean, you feel culture everywhere.
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You feel it in retention.
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You feel it in recruiting, you feel it in productivity.
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It's felt in customer experience.
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And how much time leaders spend babysitting versus building your culture is really king.
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And I would say culture isn't just a vibe.
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I know people like Gen Z is all about the vibes.
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Culture is a value driver.
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It's interesting.
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I want to touch on something real quick.
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You said the customer experience.
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Yes.
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Like, I don't know about you, but I walk into a place and I'd be like, oh, I can never work here.
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Yes.
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And I walk into other places and I'm like, oh, these people are great.
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Well, and if I could never work here.
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Do I really want them working for me?
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Correct.
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No I don't.
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So I will say there are three places that culture pays you back.
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Because culture, you really need to look at culture as a dividend.
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All right.
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So there are three R's.
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I know you're gonna love it.
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Culture creates a dividend in pirate again.
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We're pirate our retention, recruitment and risk reduction.
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That is where culture creates these dividends.
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So retention is the most obvious.
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It's usually the most ignored, but it's a big cost saver too.
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So let's start with retention because it's where culture hits the bank account first.
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All right.
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Even if leaders don't realize it, workforce studies consistently estimate that replacing that mid-level employee cost one and a half to two times their annual salary once you factor in recruiting, onboarding, lost productivity and disruption because often people are like, well, it's only thirty percent of their salary.
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No, dummy, it's not.
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It's one and a half to two times because you are talking about loss of time, loss of momentum.
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And I mean, I still see leader shock by turnover like it came out of nowhere.
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When the warning signs are cultural, they're not performance based.
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Like I don't understand why anybody doesn't want to work here.
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I'm like, because you are not easy to work for because you're a jerk.
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And there have been those conversations.
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I mean, I have I mean, we've worked with organizations at, at AUI and clarity where turnover wasn't caused by pay or workload.
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They are getting paid at the top of their pay scale.
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Their workload is manageable.
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It was caused by inconsistent leadership which is tolerated bad behavior or a lack of psychological safety.
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So it is either we are poor leaders.
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We we don't treat people the same way, or we tolerate bad actors within the organization.
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So the top performers are burnout and they leave.
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Or it's a lack of psychological safety where I don't trust you to make decisions or I am afraid to speak up.
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So I want to be valued for the things that I do.
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So the moment that culture improves, it's not perks, it's not pizza.
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It's really improving.
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Culture retention stabilizes and that's real money.
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Staying in the business.
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When people stay in the business, they get better at doing the things.
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We get more efficient at doing, the things we grow our customer base and we grow as an organization.
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So I mean, retention is real money.
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It's funny.
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I want to I want to talk about that for a second, because I have worked in businesses where the owner was like, well, if they don't like it, I'll just go out and hire someone cheaper.
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And it's interesting.
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They obviously don't value retention.
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Yeah.
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And they pay a price for that that they just aren't willing to see.
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No. And that's I mean it's it's fine if you're Amazon and you're replacing people with robots in a few years in your warehouses and you're like, you know what?
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People are just widgets.
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But for for small business owners, people are not widgets.
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No, no, you're not a fortune five company.
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You don't.
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You don't get the pleasure of people being widgets.
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And those people also, I mean, can also sink your business.
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I mean, it's not I would say that no person is a widget, but I would say, too, that every resignation that you have in an organization is a withdrawal from your culture account.
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So, I mean, you're you're paying dividends and building a good culture.
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You have someone in your organization where you are tolerating behavior and they are making everyone else miserable, and people are resigning as a result.
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It's depleting your culture.
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It's depleting your account.
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Plus, when you have to bring someone else in, it's going to change your culture a little bit.
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Yes, because it's this living, breathing thing that don't think like I have culture.
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It's it's not like when they stick the swab in the back of your throat for the Covid.
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It's not a test.
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This is a living, breathing thing.
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And as you change the pieces to it, it's going to change.
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Yeah.
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And every time you have to change a piece, it's at risk.
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Yeah.
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So let's talk about recruitment.
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That's that second R and that's the culture multiplier that most leaders will undervalue.
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So it's the recruitment dividend right.
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When culture is healthy your employees do your recruiting for you.
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Yes.
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Whether you ask them to or not.
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Everybody wants to work here.
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Same thing with when you are consistently, not when you're posting on your social media.
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Not because you want everybody to look at you and think you're amazing, but just because you're naturally posting that you have a great team and you enjoy what you're doing and you're helping your customers, people will start knocking on your door.
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Are you hiring?
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We're like, no, we're not hiring, but we'll take your resume because when we do hire, we would we would love to have the potential to interview you.
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All right.
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So LinkedIn data shows that employee referrals lead to faster hires, better performance and longer tenure.
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And I would tell you clarity, our research shows and what we do with recruiting and filling positions for employees is that employee referrals are really helpful in getting the right people in the right seats.
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It's not accidental.
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It's trust in action because those employees trust the organization.
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And because of that, they're encouraging other people to want to work for them, too.
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And when people feel proud of where they work, Josh, I mean, they talk about it.
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Yep.
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So at dinner tables, at kids sporting events, at community gatherings.
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I mean, that organic advocacy is marketing.
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You cannot buy new.
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And it's really good marketing.
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Yeah.
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Because it's like you said, it's trust.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you have to remember too, that, you know, strong culture doesn't just attract talent.
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It really filters it.
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And the wrong people will self-select out.
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And the right people are going to lean in.
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And strong culture lowers your cost per hire before you ever post a job.
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Because when people know that you're growing, they're going to start helping you find other people.
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And that's happened with us at clarity.
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I mean, we have some of our some of our best team members and some of our best team members were referrals from individuals who were in the organization said, hey, I've worked with this person in another place, or, hey, I've worked with this person adjacent in the in the work that we've done.
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I think they'd be a great fit for here.
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I'm I'm thinking back and I'm like, oh my gosh.
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Yeah.
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Like when I think of some of the rock stars that I have in my organization, they came directly from other rock stars in the organization.
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And what's funny about that is you may not have a job for that, but you find a way to make that work.
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You do, you absolutely do.
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You're like, well, that's a little bit different than what I had in mind, but we'll figure this out.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So let's talk about that third R, that risk reduction, which is the invisible savings account.
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So this is the one that leaders rarely connect to culture until it's too late.
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Healthy cultures have fewer HR fire drills.
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They have fewer grievances drills fire drills.
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They have fewer compliance issues.
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And I would I would say healthy cultures have way fewer lawsuits.
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And I mean, they do.
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And so why ask me, Josh why is that?
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Chrissy.
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It's because people speak up early.
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Yeah.
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Issues get addressed before they become legal or reputational problems.
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And you know, Harvard Business Review Amy Edmondson has done a ton of research on psychological safety, and she says that it consistently shows teams with high trust catch errors earlier.
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They resolve conflict faster, they interact with each other at a different speed and pace.
00:13:41.539 --> 00:13:44.440
There's a higher level of accountability.
00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.840
There's understanding within the organization.
00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:57.572
So I mean, from the perspective of an HR leader, you know, when culture strong employees don't escalate immediately to HR or attorneys, they resolve those issues through conversation.
00:13:57.572 --> 00:13:59.240
And that's a massive risk reducer.
00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:08.173
When you have managers and leaders and just team members that are able to kind of work through issues together, you don't have to deal with the same light.
00:14:08.173 --> 00:14:09.539
You're not dealing with those fire drills.
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:12.605
You're not dealing with people coming in and like making you be the referee.
00:14:12.605 --> 00:14:15.505
And I would say this, you know, silence can be really expensive.
00:14:15.505 --> 00:14:21.572
We've talked about that in other podcasts, like what is an indication of a of a, of a company that's struggling with culture silence.
00:14:21.572 --> 00:14:23.840
You know, speaking up early saves money.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:29.639
The need for continuing coaching and professional development is really what's important in this area too.
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:36.673
And that's what I would say as far as like you're like, well, what can what can I do as a leader to make sure that I maintain culture?
00:14:36.673 --> 00:14:38.940
Continuing to develop is really important.
00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:48.806
So I want to talk a little bit about, you know, as a CEO, there are times where the business leader, you're like this just I don't understand why this is important.
00:14:48.806 --> 00:14:51.072
I just want people to I want to pay them to do the things.
00:14:51.072 --> 00:14:51.972
Just do your thing.
00:14:51.972 --> 00:14:53.039
Just do your job.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:54.039
I do my job.
00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.206
It's like, yeah, but you own the business or you get paid a lot more to do the job.
00:14:57.206 --> 00:14:57.773
So that's.
00:14:57.773 --> 00:14:59.472
That's why you're where you are.
00:14:59.472 --> 00:15:02.840
I want to talk about the CEO dividend because this is personal.
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:10.605
So business owners who don't necessarily think that culture is a big deal, I want you to listen, okay?
00:15:10.605 --> 00:15:15.273
When culture is broken, leaders get dragged into everything.
00:15:15.273 --> 00:15:18.105
Every drama, every conflict, every decision.
00:15:18.105 --> 00:15:19.740
It leads to paralysis.
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:20.940
It's a lot of emotional cleanup.
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:23.406
You get tired of being the referee.
00:15:23.406 --> 00:15:27.139
So if you're like, I am always putting out fires.
00:15:27.139 --> 00:15:29.539
My people are never getting along well, you know.
00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:31.139
Then your culture might be broken.
00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:31.873
That might be.
00:15:31.873 --> 00:15:32.605
It is broken.
00:15:32.605 --> 00:15:36.440
I'm being polite when culture's healthy teams always self-correct.
00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:42.972
We just said this a minute ago, but I'm saying it again because repetition is important, and I know it takes ten times for somebody to understand what I'm talking about.
00:15:42.972 --> 00:15:44.972
So when culture's healthy, you self-correct.
00:15:44.972 --> 00:15:46.840
They make decisions aligned with mission.
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.440
They don't need permission for every move.
00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.306
Josh, how much do you love it in your organization?
00:15:52.306 --> 00:15:54.906
When somebody comes in and they're like, hey, this was the issue when we resolved it.
00:15:54.906 --> 00:15:56.340
We just wanted to tell you that it was done.
00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:56.972
Yep.
00:15:56.972 --> 00:16:01.240
No, I mean, it makes my day one hundred percent because I'm like, holy cow.
00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:05.306
And the amount of pride that I have in that, like, I got the right people.
00:16:05.306 --> 00:16:06.005
Yes.
00:16:06.005 --> 00:16:06.906
That's it.
00:16:06.906 --> 00:16:08.273
They did the thing.
00:16:08.273 --> 00:16:12.505
I mean, and I've been in both seasons, I have been in space where like, oh my gosh, our culture stinks.
00:16:12.505 --> 00:16:14.072
We got to figure out what we're going to do.
00:16:14.072 --> 00:16:22.072
And I've had those times where I have spent my days refereeing, in part because I wasn't willing to make a hard decision that somebody shouldn't be on the team anymore.
00:16:22.072 --> 00:16:27.440
And then I've also spent time building our culture and culture and getting it to be thick is the difference.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:31.440
I would rather be a builder of culture than a referee.
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.072
Healthy culture moves decisions down and vision up.
00:16:36.072 --> 00:16:38.373
So I want to add something to this real quick.
00:16:38.373 --> 00:16:40.505
Yes, everyone.
00:16:40.505 --> 00:16:42.840
Like we spend a lot of time talking about culture.
00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:49.206
And I realized that something that just dawned on me as you said this, for so many CEOs, it's a blind spot.
00:16:49.206 --> 00:16:50.072
Oh, a huge one.
00:16:50.072 --> 00:16:57.406
I have a great culture, and to me, unless you are actively doing these things that we are talking about.
00:16:57.406 --> 00:16:57.972
Yep.
00:16:57.972 --> 00:17:06.240
Walking the floor, asking your people, getting feedback you don't know unless you are actively doing this because then you're the nice leader.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:06.839
Yeah.
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.873
And that was a few few episodes ago.
00:17:08.873 --> 00:17:09.440
It is.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.339
But yeah, you you need to actively be doing these things.
00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:13.806
Yes.
00:17:13.806 --> 00:17:16.072
Otherwise you don't have a great culture.
00:17:16.072 --> 00:17:30.306
No. And for those of you that think that culture is just fluff, I would like to talk to you right now and talk to you about why culture is not HR fluff, because I think that you're just wrong and it's going to be an expensive, costly problem.
00:17:30.306 --> 00:17:33.839
But you can listen to me now or you can be miserable later.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:34.806
It's your choice.
00:17:34.806 --> 00:17:37.139
I would say, you know, culture governs behavior.
00:17:37.139 --> 00:17:38.639
Behavior governs results.
00:17:38.639 --> 00:17:45.139
And if you don't intentionally design culture, you inherit one one hundred percent.
00:17:45.139 --> 00:17:47.306
And inherited cultures are usually expensive.
00:17:47.306 --> 00:17:50.105
Josh, they're really expensive.
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:58.205
I mean, transitioning culture can be expensive, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's an investment.
00:17:58.205 --> 00:18:04.205
And like I said, if you are not making the investment, you you don't have a great culture.
00:18:04.205 --> 00:18:05.806
No. And culture isn't soft.
00:18:05.806 --> 00:18:06.705
It's structural.
00:18:06.705 --> 00:18:14.006
So to wrap everything up, when leaders stop seeing culture as a cost and start really treating it like capital, everything shifts.
00:18:14.006 --> 00:18:14.440
It does.
00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:21.006
Retention improves, recruiting gets easier, risk goes down and innovation goes up and leaders finally get their time back.
00:18:21.006 --> 00:18:24.173
You want to buy back your time as a leader?
00:18:24.173 --> 00:18:24.506
Yes.
00:18:24.506 --> 00:18:29.105
There are things that you can do on the technology side, but you truly want to buy back your time.
00:18:29.105 --> 00:18:32.806
Create a good culture for your organization.
00:18:32.806 --> 00:18:33.640
And that's not just.
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:34.940
It's not just good vibes.
00:18:34.940 --> 00:18:36.772
It's good business.
00:18:36.772 --> 00:18:38.605
Ooh, yeah, look at that.
00:18:38.605 --> 00:18:39.105
It is.
00:18:39.105 --> 00:18:40.573
And culture isn't broken there.
00:18:40.573 --> 00:18:43.405
No, we can't because I've got one more sentence and it's really important.
00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:45.940
One more sentence.
00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:48.373
And that's culture isn't broken because people are bad.
00:18:48.373 --> 00:18:52.306
It's broken because leaders get quiet when it matters most.
00:18:52.306 --> 00:18:54.140
I wholeheartedly agree to that.
00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:57.306
I mean, that's everything in there is just.
00:18:57.306 --> 00:18:58.539
Yes.
00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:00.173
Yeah, just yes it is.
00:19:00.173 --> 00:19:01.940
So because of that.
00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:05.006
That's why it was important that I say that last sentence culture isn't broken because people are bad.
00:19:05.006 --> 00:19:06.839
It's broken because leaders get quiet when it matters most.
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:11.173
Because I know you're going to talk about this in execution and marketing from an operations perspective.
00:19:11.173 --> 00:19:17.140
So how do you see culture impact the operational efficiency and the marketing reach of the company?
00:19:17.140 --> 00:19:19.306
How do those steps look from your side?
00:19:19.306 --> 00:19:28.506
It's interesting because like if you don't invest in making the process smoother, it's going to it's going to do things to make itself worse.
00:19:28.506 --> 00:19:31.605
Um, lower friction, faster execution.
00:19:31.605 --> 00:19:38.205
I mean, literally culture is the lubricant that makes it so all these moving parts can work together.
00:19:38.205 --> 00:19:46.205
Uh, if you want to see what happens, you don't do this, but take the oil out of your car and see how it works without lubricant.
00:19:46.205 --> 00:19:47.073
No, don't do that.
00:19:47.073 --> 00:19:47.772
Right.
00:19:47.772 --> 00:19:48.440
It does not.
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:49.140
Does not.
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:50.573
That's expensive.
00:19:50.573 --> 00:19:52.839
It runs okay for a little while.
00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.373
Then it comes to a screeching halt and it becomes very expensive.
00:19:56.373 --> 00:19:59.573
Um, part of it is to you eliminate the shadow workflow.
00:19:59.573 --> 00:20:00.605
When people trust each other.
00:20:00.605 --> 00:20:02.073
There's no meeting after the meeting.
00:20:02.073 --> 00:20:02.472
There's.
00:20:02.472 --> 00:20:10.506
I mean, problems are solved in the room in ten minutes, rather than being debated in ten emails and three hallway meetings and by the water cooler.
00:20:10.506 --> 00:20:11.140
Mhm.
00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:17.240
Um, decentralized decision making if everyone knows where we're going.
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:17.740
Yeah.
00:20:17.740 --> 00:20:21.972
One person does not need to make all of the decisions.
00:20:21.972 --> 00:20:23.506
We're going here.
00:20:23.506 --> 00:20:25.640
We're going to get here the best way that we can.
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:30.873
And the daily decisions can be handled by the people in the driver's seat.
00:20:30.873 --> 00:20:32.105
You are the GPS.
00:20:32.105 --> 00:20:35.440
You're saying, here's where we're going and here's how we're getting there.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:36.006
Yes.
00:20:36.006 --> 00:20:38.073
Let the people decide how they get there.
00:20:38.073 --> 00:20:43.740
And the speed at which they're able to do that with is that return on investment.
00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:44.272
Yeah.
00:20:44.272 --> 00:20:51.640
As you're paying people to be in the office in out of the office, wherever the people are, if they're able to do their stuff quicker, guess what?
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:52.705
You can get more done.
00:20:52.705 --> 00:20:55.440
And when you can get more done, it's typically less expensive.
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.105
Imagine that.
00:20:57.105 --> 00:20:58.806
And you like going to work?
00:20:58.806 --> 00:20:59.306
Yes.
00:20:59.306 --> 00:21:01.806
You really just would like to to like going to work.
00:21:01.806 --> 00:21:02.140
Yeah.
00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:05.240
I don't ever want you in your car crying ahead of time.
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:06.073
Yes.
00:21:06.073 --> 00:21:08.673
Or just taking it like I'm missing one more song.
00:21:08.673 --> 00:21:09.472
Listen to this podcast.
00:21:09.472 --> 00:21:11.306
You know, maybe I'll take this call in the car.
00:21:11.306 --> 00:21:16.272
Like that should be a red flag to you if you're not wanting to walk into your office building.
00:21:16.272 --> 00:21:20.173
If you see the person out in the parking lot every day for ten minutes?
00:21:20.173 --> 00:21:21.472
Ten to twelve minutes?
00:21:21.472 --> 00:21:24.006
I need that person to walk in before me because I just can't.
00:21:24.006 --> 00:21:25.472
That that should tell you.
00:21:25.472 --> 00:21:28.373
Maybe your culture isn't working one hundred percent.
00:22:25.593 --> 00:22:27.192
Uh. Director's kind.
00:22:27.192 --> 00:22:28.226
Kind is direct.
00:22:28.226 --> 00:22:29.460
Clarity is kind.
00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:34.160
No one spends time deciphering what the boss or a peer actually meant.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.692
Make it so you can speak openly and honestly without someone's feelings.
00:22:37.692 --> 00:22:38.425
Get hurt.
00:22:38.425 --> 00:22:41.992
Hey, I don't really I don't feel that idea is going to work.
00:22:41.992 --> 00:22:43.360
Here's why.
00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:48.992
If you tell me that I'm not going to get offended, I'm going to want to listen and maybe expand my horizons.
00:22:48.992 --> 00:22:53.992
Because in directness you realize this is not a personal attack.
00:22:53.992 --> 00:22:56.860
This is like, hey, we have a difference of ideas.
00:22:56.860 --> 00:22:57.660
Yeah.
00:22:57.660 --> 00:23:03.492
Uh, the other thing is, too, is the reduced context switching shaky cultures.
00:23:03.492 --> 00:23:09.893
Employees spend a massive amount of time figuring out what did they actually mean by that?
00:23:09.893 --> 00:23:10.492
Yeah.
00:23:12.026 --> 00:23:14.059
Stop making them read tea leaves.
00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:16.059
No, no, don't do it.
00:23:16.059 --> 00:23:23.425
The additional piece to that is two is then if there's clarity and stuff like that, you're not doing this four times over again.
00:23:23.425 --> 00:23:29.893
No. Um, once again, every time you have to rework something, look back to see why.
00:23:29.893 --> 00:23:30.259
Yeah.
00:23:30.259 --> 00:23:32.293
In so many cases, it's a culture.
00:23:32.293 --> 00:23:33.125
Culture issue.
00:23:33.125 --> 00:23:33.960
Yes.
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.526
Or an operational operational issue.
00:23:36.526 --> 00:23:37.860
But it's one of those two.
00:23:37.860 --> 00:23:39.960
And both of those can be fixed.
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.059
One a little bit faster than the other.
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:47.526
The other one is to like from the marketing side is the customer experience mirror.
00:23:47.526 --> 00:23:57.893
Um, I, I like this I'm gonna talk about the banks here because there's a, there's a bank that I know you, you and this bank, they talk about personal service.
00:23:57.893 --> 00:24:03.860
I walk in every employee looks like there are three customers away from running out and playing in traffic.
00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:07.526
Um, they they almost like in Happy Gilmore.
00:24:07.526 --> 00:24:10.160
Remember when the lady throws herself on the on the hood of his car?
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.860
He's like, get me out of here at the nursing home?
00:24:14.860 --> 00:24:16.826
Yeah, at the nursing home.
00:24:16.826 --> 00:24:21.226
When you walk in and every single employee has that look on their face.
00:24:21.226 --> 00:24:21.726
Yeah.
00:24:21.726 --> 00:24:23.125
You're like, okay.
00:24:23.125 --> 00:24:27.660
Um, so the customer, the service thing you're talking about is the facade.
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:28.026
Yeah.
00:24:28.026 --> 00:24:37.059
And I walk in and I mean, there's times I mean, it's every branch, there's the occasional person that's just like, chosen to look at life positively.
00:24:37.059 --> 00:24:41.192
Um, either that or they had they were drinking in their car before they came.
00:24:41.192 --> 00:24:51.660
Um, you see, people walk in and you're just like, if if you're if your employees are handling are feeling like that, your customers know it.
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:52.460
Yeah.
00:24:52.460 --> 00:25:04.393
Um, if they have this feeling that goes straight to your customers and, and you could be like, give our customers the best customer service, and then you're like, fine, what do you want?
00:25:04.393 --> 00:25:08.226
I'm going to give you the best service I can, which is not much today.
00:25:08.226 --> 00:25:08.660
Yeah.
00:25:08.660 --> 00:25:19.293
Um, it's very much that if your employees are stressed by everyone else in the company, their stressful stuff that happens in business all the time.
00:25:19.293 --> 00:25:19.992
Absolutely.
00:25:19.992 --> 00:25:21.692
You should not be one of those things.
00:25:21.692 --> 00:25:25.160
No, your job is to reduce drag, not create it.
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:29.593
Your coworkers should not be one of those things that is increasing your stress.
00:25:29.593 --> 00:25:34.026
If you're stressed, ignored, treated poorly by leadership, or I mean they're just drained.
00:25:34.026 --> 00:25:37.259
They've got zero bandwidth left for the customer.
00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:42.192
And that is that look of like, oh damn it, a person just walked through the door.
00:25:42.192 --> 00:25:45.660
Um, that is that look that we have all seen.
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:47.460
I don't want to help them, but I have to.
00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:48.093
Right.
00:25:48.093 --> 00:25:48.726
You don't want that.
00:25:48.726 --> 00:25:49.526
And.
00:25:49.526 --> 00:25:52.492
Hi. How are you today?
00:25:52.492 --> 00:25:55.793
When you hear that, you're like, don't ask me how I am.
00:25:55.793 --> 00:25:55.992
Yes.
00:25:55.992 --> 00:25:56.826
You care?
00:25:56.826 --> 00:25:57.526
Correct.
00:25:57.526 --> 00:25:59.059
Just don't be like, hi.
00:25:59.059 --> 00:25:59.793
Correct.
00:25:59.793 --> 00:26:00.460
What do you need?
00:26:00.460 --> 00:26:01.093
Correct.
00:26:01.093 --> 00:26:01.826
How can I help you?
00:26:01.826 --> 00:26:02.192
That's why.
00:26:02.192 --> 00:26:02.793
How can I help you?
00:26:02.793 --> 00:26:03.692
Is so much better.
00:26:03.692 --> 00:26:05.160
And that's that's.
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:11.759
It's why, like, half the time I'm at a bank teller, and I always want to be, like, blink twice if you're being held against your will.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:13.125
Um, yeah.
00:26:13.125 --> 00:26:15.559
I'm seriously waiting for them to do that.
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:32.326
The the other thing that I see is, like in a bad culture, even though you say we offer great customer service, we bend over backwards for our customers so many times it's wasting time or breaking protocols how it's seen because there's these ridiculously tight guardrails, they aren't allowed to do anything.
00:26:32.326 --> 00:26:35.125
So they this is what everyone remembers.
00:26:35.125 --> 00:26:38.526
Spectrum in the in the uh oh yeah.
00:26:38.526 --> 00:26:39.593
In the teens.
00:26:39.593 --> 00:26:40.226
Mhm.
00:26:40.226 --> 00:26:46.326
Um you're like you got to a point where you just pick up the phone as soon as the person got on, just give me the manager.
00:26:46.326 --> 00:26:47.559
We were all hostages.
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:47.860
Right.
00:26:47.860 --> 00:26:49.460
Well because we had no choice.
00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:52.125
They weren't going to I mean they couldn't do anything.
00:26:52.125 --> 00:26:55.360
You knew you had to escalate it to two managers before you could get anything done.
00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:56.026
Yes.
00:26:56.026 --> 00:26:57.192
That was their business model.
00:26:57.192 --> 00:26:58.125
That was their business model.
00:26:58.125 --> 00:26:58.726
Torture.
00:26:58.726 --> 00:26:59.125
Yeah.
00:26:59.125 --> 00:27:02.893
Just I mean hope, hope, hope you wear your customers down.
00:27:02.893 --> 00:27:09.625
And once again, every single one of those people picked up the phone and, you know, they were being recorded and they have to act happy.
00:27:09.625 --> 00:27:15.293
But you know, they're looking at the, the the knife, the butter knife in their drawer like, hmm.
00:27:15.293 --> 00:27:17.192
Do I stick this in my jugular or not?
00:27:17.192 --> 00:27:17.860
Exactly.
00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:20.726
Um, the best example I love of this Ritz Carlton.
00:27:20.726 --> 00:27:22.692
This is widely known.
00:27:24.526 --> 00:27:28.259
I'm not saying everyone's going to be the Ritz Carlton in this, but no, it can't be.
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:33.160
But any customer facing employee had a budget of two thousand dollars per incident.
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:33.992
Yeah.
00:27:33.992 --> 00:27:37.992
If something happened, just take care of it up to two thousand dollars.
00:27:37.992 --> 00:27:39.160
Just do it.
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:40.059
Don't think about it.
00:27:40.059 --> 00:27:41.593
Just do it.
00:27:41.593 --> 00:27:44.692
Yes, that is good culture.
00:27:44.692 --> 00:27:52.160
That is people being I mean, that is you showing that you trust your people to make the right decisions.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.093
That is what culture gets you.
00:27:54.093 --> 00:28:01.026
Uh, if a leader is, uh, like, inconsistent or unkind, um, I like that under kind.
00:28:01.026 --> 00:28:02.893
That's a very nice way to say other things.
00:28:02.893 --> 00:28:04.093
I figured you'd like that.
00:28:04.093 --> 00:28:06.425
Uh, if they're a jerk.
00:28:06.425 --> 00:28:09.526
That frustration leaks out to the customer all day long.
00:28:09.526 --> 00:28:11.726
And I mean, this is just the marketing standpoint.
00:28:11.726 --> 00:28:16.759
So I'm not saying be the nice boss because we talked about what happens when you do that.
00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:17.160
Yes.
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:18.026
Be the direct boss.
00:28:18.026 --> 00:28:19.726
Be the kind boss.
00:28:19.726 --> 00:28:28.692
But don't be don't don't be that inconsistent or just be the jerk to your employees because once again, they're going straight out to your employee.
00:28:28.692 --> 00:28:29.925
They're going straight out to your customers.
00:28:29.925 --> 00:28:32.526
Exactly the one.
00:28:32.526 --> 00:28:37.692
Once again, we're going to go back to the bank example, the script versus the soul.
00:28:37.692 --> 00:28:40.860
You know, all the people that are reading scripts.
00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:41.160
Oh, yeah.
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:43.860
Hi. Welcome to the bank today.
00:28:45.026 --> 00:28:45.726
Yeah.
00:28:45.726 --> 00:28:49.026
And it's because they're required to say those specific words.
00:28:49.026 --> 00:28:52.660
I tell you what, if they walked in, they said, hey good morning.
00:28:53.826 --> 00:28:55.893
Oh it's morning, it's morning.
00:28:55.893 --> 00:29:01.026
They said something they they acknowledged not hi how are you today?
00:29:01.026 --> 00:29:03.526
I mean it like this.
00:29:03.526 --> 00:29:04.293
The script.
00:29:04.293 --> 00:29:06.160
Most people have no script.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.826
Yeah, or no soul when they read from a script.
00:29:08.826 --> 00:29:12.326
It's why in the video side of our business, we tell people no teleprompter.
00:29:12.326 --> 00:29:16.026
Yeah, most people read off a teleprompter like they're reading in their head.
00:29:16.026 --> 00:29:20.726
Hi. These are the things that I am required to say to you.
00:29:20.726 --> 00:29:24.160
And if I don't, my boss over there will yell at me.
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.526
Thank you.
00:29:25.526 --> 00:29:32.393
No, no honest, genuine interactions, especially as AI becomes more prevalent.
00:29:32.393 --> 00:29:33.660
Oh, you gotta be human.
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:36.860
Oh, the human thing is what everyone's going to.
00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:37.726
Uh, really?
00:29:37.726 --> 00:29:38.992
They're going to crave that.
00:29:38.992 --> 00:29:39.559
Yeah.
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:45.960
Happy employees, genuine low friction interactions, higher lifetime customer value.
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:47.125
Absolutely.
00:29:47.125 --> 00:29:50.460
If I have switched places, I've switched banks before.
00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:51.793
I've switched other providers.
00:29:51.793 --> 00:29:52.860
Because you know what?
00:29:52.860 --> 00:29:54.625
Someone is friendly to me.
00:29:54.625 --> 00:29:56.125
Holy cow.
00:29:56.125 --> 00:29:58.226
Are you going to get every customer that way?
00:29:58.226 --> 00:30:01.960
No, but you're going to get a lot of them that way.
00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:06.526
Um, the last piece to it too, is from a marketing advocacy thing.
00:30:07.992 --> 00:30:10.625
When you go in, we see it all the time.
00:30:10.625 --> 00:30:15.360
When you when you walk in the door and you see them look away like I didn't see this person walk in the door.
00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:17.226
I hate that look.
00:30:17.226 --> 00:30:18.793
Please don't make eye contact.
00:30:18.793 --> 00:30:19.093
Right?
00:30:19.093 --> 00:30:20.492
Don't ask me to do something for you.
00:30:20.492 --> 00:30:22.826
There's four tellers at the bank and you see three of them look away.
00:30:22.826 --> 00:30:25.093
And the last one's like, oh, crap.
00:30:25.093 --> 00:30:26.692
Made eye contact.
00:30:26.692 --> 00:30:27.992
They got me.
00:30:27.992 --> 00:30:30.093
We're locked in, right?
00:30:30.093 --> 00:30:32.793
I mean, if you if people.
00:30:32.793 --> 00:30:33.860
Once again, it's work.
00:30:33.860 --> 00:30:34.726
We call this work.
00:30:34.726 --> 00:30:37.160
This is not playtime in the same sense.
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:44.425
If they go to work and they feel like they're treated fairly, they feel good, genuinely good about what they do.
00:30:44.425 --> 00:30:45.226
You covered it.
00:30:45.226 --> 00:30:52.160
They're going to become your biggest advocate, whether it be for customers, whether it be for finding new employees, whatever.
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:57.393
I really I mean, it feels like in the business world we have enough, like foes out there.
00:30:57.393 --> 00:30:58.593
I'd rather have an advocate.
00:30:58.593 --> 00:30:58.826
Yeah.
00:30:58.826 --> 00:31:00.293
Raving fans are a good thing.
00:31:01.726 --> 00:31:04.026
The other thing is to not.
00:31:04.026 --> 00:31:13.460
I get it, not everyone comes across as this super charismatic whatever in the same sense, give people the ability to say hi without giving them a script.
00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:20.192
Yeah, if you have a good culture, they will do that without sounding like, hey, can I go play in traffic now?
00:31:20.192 --> 00:31:20.893
Yes.
00:31:20.893 --> 00:31:25.125
Um, the other thing is too is like, I mean, the dinner table return on investment.
00:31:25.125 --> 00:31:35.192
Like I said it, the thing that we often don't think about is if someone actually, like, has a decent day at work, they're going to go home, they're going to talk to their family about it.
00:31:35.192 --> 00:31:42.692
Hey, my mom really enjoys her job at such and such and that I mean, your kids, your ripples.
00:31:42.692 --> 00:31:43.759
Yes.
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:45.026
It doesn't stop there.
00:31:45.026 --> 00:31:50.759
No. And you're setting an example for kind of what workforce could look like for them once they're older and in the workforce.
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:51.160
Yeah.
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.492
Let's, let's you want to create ripples of impact as an employer.
00:31:54.492 --> 00:31:59.460
Be a good employer because you make you raise you raise the bar for everybody else.
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.660
Please keep doing it because there's so many people that hate their jobs.
00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:05.259
There are, and it sucks to see.
00:32:05.259 --> 00:32:06.026
And it makes me sad.
00:32:06.026 --> 00:32:08.460
Yeah, and we only have so many seats on our bus right now.
00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:10.893
I want to hire all the peoples, but I can't, so.
00:32:10.893 --> 00:32:11.360
Same.
00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:29.726
It's it's funny because when I go into the bank, I. And I see some people that I'm like, wow, this is a person that just you can see there's a spark in their eye, but it's covered by like this flame retardant blanket of scripts of scripts and process and overregulation.
00:32:29.726 --> 00:32:30.660
Yes.
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:35.059
Uh, if people feel supported, they will support like, oh, gosh.
00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:35.259
Yeah.
00:32:35.259 --> 00:32:44.826
This is the thing that I see with this return on investment piece, if people feel supported in the business that they work in, they will support that business tenfold.
00:32:44.826 --> 00:32:45.625
Yes.
00:32:45.625 --> 00:32:48.826
I mean that that is the simplest piece to this.
00:32:48.826 --> 00:32:50.393
This is the multiplier of it.
00:32:50.393 --> 00:32:53.393
If they feel supported, they will support you.
00:32:53.393 --> 00:32:55.226
They will support the person sitting next to them.
00:32:55.226 --> 00:32:56.593
They will support their boss.
00:32:56.593 --> 00:32:58.593
They will support the client.
00:32:58.593 --> 00:33:00.460
They will support everyone around them.
00:33:00.460 --> 00:33:00.726
Yes.
00:33:00.726 --> 00:33:01.925
And they will be raving fans.
00:33:01.925 --> 00:33:05.660
Any opportunity that they get to push your business one hundred percent.
00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:09.259
To me, and that is why that's one of the reasons why.
00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:14.860
And I say this all the time, like success is a shared thing, is our core value as a business.
00:33:14.860 --> 00:33:19.660
If I make sure my employees are successful, I'm going to be successful.
00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:23.460
Yes, because they're going to want to make sure that we're all successful too.
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:23.893
Yes.
00:33:23.893 --> 00:33:25.960
And it's one of those things that just goes.
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.026
I mean, it just spreads.
00:33:28.026 --> 00:33:32.093
Now, once again, though, culture doesn't happen.
00:33:32.093 --> 00:33:33.960
It takes intent.
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:35.425
It is intentional.
00:33:35.425 --> 00:33:35.759
Yes.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:54.492
And I will say one of the the biggest wins that I have as a business owner is when I see our leadership team or, or any team member really taking ownership of the organization when I see them, like repeating our purpose and saying, you know, this is what we're making this decision based on or like, I'll be like doing something else.
00:33:54.492 --> 00:33:55.059
I have no idea.
00:33:55.059 --> 00:34:03.226
I'm there with a copier because occasionally I make copies still And I hear like, this is, you know, we provide peace of mind by simplifying the complicated.
00:34:03.226 --> 00:34:05.460
How are we are we giving peace of mind?
00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:06.992
I don't know that that's something that we should.
00:34:06.992 --> 00:34:18.059
I think that we should probably push the envelope with this, this client and encourage them to do something, because that's not we're not helping them this way or we're moving in a different direction, or how can we make the business more successful?
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:24.059
Like, those are the things that you just you're like, you hear them and you're like, oh my gosh, yay, I did something right.
00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:24.759
This is going.
00:34:24.759 --> 00:34:26.659
But it didn't happen overnight.
00:34:26.659 --> 00:34:27.925
No it doesn't.
00:34:27.925 --> 00:34:29.960
I'm going to refer to your copier thing here in a minute.
00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:30.525
Yeah.
00:34:30.525 --> 00:34:41.525
Um, to me, one of the best feelings ever is when I get a message from someone that says, we have this or we got this done.
00:34:41.525 --> 00:34:41.992
Yes.
00:34:41.992 --> 00:34:44.992
When I hear it's this collective thing.
00:34:44.992 --> 00:34:49.992
Yeah, it's like when we get a new client and they say, hey, we've got a new client.
00:34:49.992 --> 00:34:54.726
Um, that to me is just talk about a smile.
00:34:54.726 --> 00:34:55.525
Yeah.
00:34:55.525 --> 00:34:59.025
Uh, the other piece is, is I still have one of the best things that I have ever heard.
00:34:59.025 --> 00:35:01.226
When you say you make copies still.
00:35:01.226 --> 00:35:03.960
Um, because, I mean, we are twenty, twenty six.
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:04.625
Yeah.
00:35:04.625 --> 00:35:10.659
Um, a friend of mine, she was the receptionist at the semi truck dealership, uh, has her own business now.
00:35:10.659 --> 00:35:12.459
We're going very well.
00:35:12.459 --> 00:35:14.359
Someone said, can you fax that to me?
00:35:14.359 --> 00:35:16.625
And she said, no, I can't.
00:35:16.625 --> 00:35:17.492
And they said, why not?
00:35:17.492 --> 00:35:19.625
She goes, Because I'm in twenty twenty one.
00:35:21.025 --> 00:35:21.959
Ha ha ha.
00:35:24.859 --> 00:35:26.792
Sometimes we still have to make copies.
00:35:28.192 --> 00:35:31.592
I could print it twenty times or I could copy it and it's cheaper.
00:35:31.592 --> 00:35:31.859
Yeah.
00:35:31.859 --> 00:35:33.892
No, I understand this.
00:35:33.892 --> 00:35:39.859
And as I realizing, like our businesses are slightly different, they are yours deals with a lot of paperwork.
00:35:39.859 --> 00:35:40.659
We still do.
00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:41.159
Yes.
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:42.025
Oh, yeah.
00:35:42.025 --> 00:35:42.959
No, thanks.
00:35:42.959 --> 00:35:43.592
No paperwork.
00:35:43.592 --> 00:35:44.492
Lots of things.
00:35:44.492 --> 00:35:47.159
Occasionally I gotta copy something and redesign it.
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:48.725
Give a wet signature.
00:35:48.725 --> 00:35:50.025
That's what it is.
00:35:50.025 --> 00:35:51.792
That's my personal hell.
00:35:51.792 --> 00:35:52.792
I get it.
00:35:52.792 --> 00:35:55.692
What does it cost a company when they don't fix their bad culture.
00:35:55.692 --> 00:36:02.325
I mean, there's there's I mean, I can think of an infinite number of things here, but what's your take on this?
00:36:02.325 --> 00:36:05.025
I mean, you get absenteeism, quiet, quitting, sabotage.
00:36:05.025 --> 00:36:07.859
I mean, culture the culture tax isn't theoretical.
00:36:07.859 --> 00:36:09.359
I mean, it's legitimate.
00:36:09.359 --> 00:36:10.859
It shows up as absenteeism.
00:36:10.859 --> 00:36:12.092
It shows up as conflict.
00:36:12.092 --> 00:36:14.459
It shows up as quality and issues and turnover.
00:36:14.459 --> 00:36:17.992
I mean, Deloitte has done significant research on culture.
00:36:55.322 --> 00:36:56.289
So has Gallup.
00:36:56.289 --> 00:37:04.655
And they they talk significantly about, you know, strong cultures that have low, low, high culture have significantly lower absenteeism and turnover.
00:37:04.655 --> 00:37:09.922
And that in itself, we talked about this earlier, one and a half to two times of salary to replace a person.
00:37:09.922 --> 00:37:13.322
And in having a thick culture, you also get higher performance.
00:37:13.322 --> 00:37:17.655
So I mean you got to think healthy culture makes us money.
00:37:17.655 --> 00:37:19.855
Unhealthy culture costs us money.
00:37:19.855 --> 00:37:20.689
It really does.
00:37:20.689 --> 00:37:21.722
It's really simple.
00:37:21.722 --> 00:37:23.789
It it's funny.
00:37:23.789 --> 00:37:31.289
It's funny you say that too, because there's a couple of jobs that I can think back to where I was at home.
00:37:31.289 --> 00:37:34.589
Like, today is going to be a busy big day.
00:37:34.589 --> 00:37:36.389
No PTO.
00:37:36.389 --> 00:37:38.689
Um, just because I didn't want to deal with it.
00:37:38.689 --> 00:37:39.222
Yeah.
00:37:39.222 --> 00:37:41.922
Um. Or I'd have to be in a meeting with someone that I do want to be in a meeting with.
00:37:41.922 --> 00:37:44.555
And I'm like, you know, PTO day.
00:37:44.555 --> 00:37:51.222
Well, and seeing I will say, like, in strong culture, strong organizations, you will see people lean in.
00:37:51.222 --> 00:37:53.555
It's not, oh, I'm going to take PTO because it's gonna be hard.
00:37:53.555 --> 00:38:08.289
Like, we have a very hard fourth quarter as an organization because, I mean, in the insurance space, ninety percent of insurance renews one one, which means that you have different enrollment windows that have to happen for different products.
00:38:08.289 --> 00:38:15.755
And if somebody is off, I mean, like, it's not like we don't allow people to not take time off, but like, they know like I gotta be here.
00:38:15.755 --> 00:38:16.789
This is really important.
00:38:16.789 --> 00:38:17.589
And they're working.
00:38:17.589 --> 00:38:19.222
I mean, collaboration on the team side.
00:38:19.222 --> 00:38:24.822
And it's not a when we have push days, everybody's in and everybody's leaning in.
00:38:24.822 --> 00:38:30.355
And it's not just because, oh, it make me miserable, or they'll be upset if it's because I know I'm letting the team down.
00:38:30.355 --> 00:38:35.555
If I'm not here to help, and our clients need us in this time more than they do any other time.
00:38:35.555 --> 00:38:37.655
So we're going to lean in and we're going to help.
00:38:37.655 --> 00:38:41.555
It's funny how that so quickly just becomes apparent.
00:38:41.555 --> 00:38:42.355
Yeah.
00:38:42.355 --> 00:38:46.489
And it tells you to who is invested in the culture and who isn't?
00:38:46.489 --> 00:38:46.622
Well.
00:38:46.622 --> 00:38:50.289
And you can tell to who your people are that you're going to exit from your bus pretty quickly.
00:38:50.289 --> 00:38:50.655
Yeah.
00:38:50.655 --> 00:38:59.955
When they start saying like, oh, this is really like, I don't this is and I'm like, this is what we've done every year or, or you get a new person and they're like, this is this is a lot of volume.
00:38:59.955 --> 00:39:02.655
We're like, yeah, but the rest of the year is not like this.
00:39:02.655 --> 00:39:04.622
And they're like, well, I don't know that I like this part.
00:39:04.622 --> 00:39:09.822
We're like, but you liked all the vacations and PTO and all the things that you you loved your summer.
00:39:09.822 --> 00:39:10.755
But I don't want to deal.
00:39:10.755 --> 00:39:12.055
I don't want to deal with this part.
00:39:12.055 --> 00:39:14.455
It's like, no. So that's again, that's part of the gig.
00:39:14.455 --> 00:39:25.955
Well, and your culture self-selects like I, I used to say, and I still don't like, I rarely have to let people go because they will let themselves exit, because the rest of the group will exit them for them.
00:39:25.955 --> 00:39:27.022
Yeah, and that's it.
00:39:27.022 --> 00:39:29.555
There have been times where I had to be like, you know what it was?
00:39:29.555 --> 00:39:33.289
It used to be, and we've had some changes around our organization too.
00:39:33.289 --> 00:39:37.189
But for a period of time it was we're hiring a new person.
00:39:37.189 --> 00:39:39.322
They may think and look a little bit different than you.
00:39:39.322 --> 00:39:56.155
I need you to be nice to them so that we can figure out if they're a good fit or not, because if they were to say something immediately, the organization, because of the thickness of the culture that we had, if they thought they were taking advantage of the business, they would turn on them quickly.
00:39:56.155 --> 00:40:02.455
And it was like, sure, let's make sure that before we turn on them, we know that this is something that is truly an issue.
00:40:02.455 --> 00:40:02.855
Got it.
00:40:02.855 --> 00:40:07.189
Is this is this just something where it's a learning or is this, is this this person?
00:40:07.189 --> 00:40:13.089
And so there were times where I'd be like, okay, we gotta be nice to people for a little bit longer before we assume that they're not going to do their job.
00:40:13.089 --> 00:40:15.189
Let's just let's.
00:40:15.189 --> 00:40:16.689
But there's still a timeline to it.
00:40:16.689 --> 00:40:21.355
There is a significant timeline to it, but it's that that piece of like, okay, let's see if we can.
00:40:21.355 --> 00:40:24.555
Because again, I would like they would exit quickly and I'd be like, what happened?
00:40:24.555 --> 00:40:26.055
I thought, nope, that person didn't work.
00:40:26.055 --> 00:40:26.255
Nope.
00:40:26.255 --> 00:40:32.122
We thought they were taking advantage of the organization there and it was like, okay, what is the level of caring that we need to have?
00:40:32.122 --> 00:40:35.189
So we worked on quantifying some of that.
00:40:35.189 --> 00:40:48.755
It can be I mean, there there comes a point where you do have to really look at your culture when it is thick and say, okay, how do we make sure that this is we can add people because you want to be able to be flexible and grow.
00:40:48.755 --> 00:40:49.755
You don't want to be in flux.
00:40:49.755 --> 00:40:50.789
We don't want to hire everybody.
00:40:50.789 --> 00:40:52.222
That is exactly the same.
00:40:52.222 --> 00:40:53.089
Correct?
00:40:53.089 --> 00:40:53.855
Correct.
00:40:53.855 --> 00:40:54.589
Yeah.
00:40:54.589 --> 00:41:07.322
That being said, this is one of the things that I think it's so interesting is as a small business, you have the ability to change and market your culture.
00:41:07.322 --> 00:41:07.722
Yeah.
00:41:07.722 --> 00:41:13.322
Um, I have worked in many big businesses that I have dreaded going into.
00:41:13.322 --> 00:41:22.855
Yeah, the ability to walk into a small business that I may not make as much, I may not have as good of the benefits, but you're gonna like working there.
00:41:22.855 --> 00:41:30.522
I don't hate myself and think, hmm, I can drive to work today or I can drive underneath that semi.
00:41:30.522 --> 00:41:31.055
Yeah.
00:41:31.055 --> 00:41:33.189
Um, there's a huge benefit to that.
00:41:33.189 --> 00:41:36.589
And to me, I want to go back to the bank example.
00:41:36.589 --> 00:41:37.255
Yeah.
00:41:37.255 --> 00:41:45.189
I see so many of these people that are stuck in this big machine that they I mean, they just hate it.
00:41:45.189 --> 00:41:45.489
Yeah.
00:41:45.489 --> 00:41:54.889
And those are the ones that I almost see that I want to go out to and be like, okay, look, as a small business, I can't necessarily pay you the amount.
00:41:54.889 --> 00:42:03.655
And it it always bums me out when I hear other small businesses, business owners saying, I can't get people because I'm like, you're not finding the right people then.
00:42:03.655 --> 00:42:05.422
Because if you do find.
00:42:05.422 --> 00:42:08.089
Now, granted, you can't pay half.
00:42:08.089 --> 00:42:09.589
Um, you have to be competitive.
00:42:09.589 --> 00:42:10.855
You have to be competitive.
00:42:10.855 --> 00:42:20.022
But in the same sense, you have some flexibility to offer some other things that to me, this is where culture can pay off in dividends.
00:42:20.022 --> 00:42:20.455
Yeah.
00:42:20.455 --> 00:42:24.589
Because you may not be able to offer the best health benefits.
00:42:24.589 --> 00:42:28.155
But once again, if they hated their last job.
00:42:28.155 --> 00:42:28.855
Yeah.
00:42:28.855 --> 00:42:30.755
Boy, do you have something to offer.
00:42:30.755 --> 00:42:40.422
If you've spent the time and the money and the effort on culture because you're human.
00:42:40.422 --> 00:42:41.689
Yeah, well.
00:42:41.689 --> 00:42:45.389
And you can offer them the autonomy that a lot of times a large corporation can't.
00:42:45.389 --> 00:42:55.689
And I would say there are times, especially as people are more advanced in their career when they've been they've done some of these bigger things and they're like, you know what?
00:42:55.689 --> 00:42:57.955
I just want to enjoy what I'm doing.
00:42:57.955 --> 00:43:04.222
I have several on my team that I mean have led larger, larger organizations or they have been they've been in business for themselves.
00:43:04.222 --> 00:43:05.922
And I'm like, you don't you don't want to do that anymore.
00:43:05.922 --> 00:43:07.922
They're like, no, I want to enjoy what I'm doing.
00:43:07.922 --> 00:43:13.922
Same thing with, um, with individuals that go into that C-suite, like, especially in the nonprofit space.
00:43:13.922 --> 00:43:23.489
I think sometimes they get hamstrung by and they're like, there's no way that this person who has worked for this large organization and this type of thing is going to want to work here and make a third of what I said.
00:43:23.489 --> 00:43:26.955
Just try, because they may be they may want your culture.
00:43:26.955 --> 00:43:28.222
They may want impact.
00:43:28.222 --> 00:43:33.055
There's a lot of reasons why people decide to go to work for other organizations.
00:43:33.055 --> 00:43:36.989
Don't sell yourself short just because you're a small business.
00:43:36.989 --> 00:43:43.989
Sometimes what you are doing in impact is way more important and way more valuable than than what you could pay someone in salary.
00:43:43.989 --> 00:43:46.355
What's interesting about that is a good quick example of that.
00:43:46.355 --> 00:43:53.089
When I was at, uh, I worked in a call center for a while, um, was consistently ranked as one of the top salespeople.
00:43:53.089 --> 00:43:55.422
Um, they told me my talk time was too fast.
00:43:55.422 --> 00:43:58.155
I couldn't possibly be helping the customer.
00:43:58.155 --> 00:44:07.455
Um, I received the most letters saying Josh was wonderful from the customers, but yet all they looked at was this number.
00:44:07.455 --> 00:44:17.789
And as a small business owner, you offer some of that flexibility in like, look, it's not just big numbers running the whole thing because all they were looking at was the bell curve.
00:44:17.789 --> 00:44:18.289
Exactly.
00:44:18.289 --> 00:44:21.189
And if you were at either end of the bell curve, they hated you.
00:44:21.189 --> 00:44:21.655
and see.
00:44:21.655 --> 00:44:22.389
To me, I'm going.
00:44:22.389 --> 00:44:26.555
You talk fast and you solve problems and people like you, I can I clone you?
00:44:26.555 --> 00:44:27.389
Correct.
00:44:27.389 --> 00:44:28.522
Correct, correct.
00:44:28.522 --> 00:44:29.389
That's way more people.
00:44:29.389 --> 00:44:30.355
That's way more calls.
00:44:30.355 --> 00:44:31.289
Let's go.
00:44:31.289 --> 00:44:32.355
Correct.
00:44:32.355 --> 00:44:33.855
So this week's key takeaways.
00:44:33.855 --> 00:44:34.855
Retention math.
00:44:34.855 --> 00:44:35.589
Yeah.
00:44:35.589 --> 00:44:36.922
What does it cost?
00:44:36.922 --> 00:44:38.355
Yeah.
00:44:38.355 --> 00:44:41.589
It's it's it's expensive.
00:44:41.589 --> 00:44:44.655
Expensive if you don't do it right.
00:44:44.655 --> 00:44:46.255
If you don't do it right.
00:44:46.255 --> 00:44:59.255
Um, the other piece to that is like like look at, look at some of the soft things about that in terms of like internal promotion referral rates.
00:44:59.255 --> 00:45:02.089
I mean like, are people staying?
00:45:02.089 --> 00:45:03.089
Yes.
00:45:03.089 --> 00:45:06.289
That's going to tell you like do you have the retention?
00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:07.389
Yeah.
00:45:07.389 --> 00:45:12.922
Um, what about, uh, like how do you look at things on a monthly basis?
00:45:12.922 --> 00:45:16.055
So I would say you kind of audit what you're tolerating within the month.
00:45:16.055 --> 00:45:20.222
So you make a short list of behaviors you've seen in the last thirty days that quietly are or undermining culture.
00:45:20.222 --> 00:45:22.755
So kind of taking keeping track of that.
00:45:22.755 --> 00:45:30.222
So I mean like and you can kind of keep track of it yourself like eye rolling, missed commitments, side conversations, disrespectful tone.
00:45:30.222 --> 00:45:32.755
Ask yourself which ones you let slide.
00:45:32.755 --> 00:45:33.722
What what have you done?
00:45:33.722 --> 00:45:37.422
Because you know culture isn't shaped by what you say matters.
00:45:37.422 --> 00:45:39.589
It's by what you let continue.
00:45:39.589 --> 00:45:41.922
So if you tolerate it, you teach it.
00:45:41.922 --> 00:45:44.989
And you know, we have to remember that culture is a long game.
00:45:44.989 --> 00:45:50.522
It's not like I'm going to pay ten thousand dollars and we're going to have all of our culture is going to be fixed immediately.
00:45:50.522 --> 00:45:50.989
It is.
00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:52.355
It is like planting seeds.
00:45:52.355 --> 00:45:54.155
You've got to you've got to water them.
00:45:54.155 --> 00:45:56.022
You've got to let them grow.
00:45:56.022 --> 00:45:57.122
I love that.
00:45:57.122 --> 00:45:58.589
That's that's an interesting one.
00:45:58.589 --> 00:46:00.189
And it's so funny.
00:46:00.189 --> 00:46:02.855
I think some owners stay oblivious to it.
00:46:02.855 --> 00:46:05.355
Well, it's it's much easier to stay oblivious.
00:46:05.355 --> 00:46:07.622
Like I mean it's not going to you have to pay attention for you.
00:46:07.622 --> 00:46:09.022
Do you.
00:46:09.022 --> 00:46:12.989
For me that's and that comes down to that success being shared thing.
00:46:12.989 --> 00:46:24.655
If you are not sharing success with your employees, uh, if they're not incentivized to to to care about the return on investment, why, why why would they care?
00:46:24.655 --> 00:46:25.589
Exactly.
00:46:25.589 --> 00:46:30.955
It doesn't always need to be like, hey, if you get this project done, pizza because no one cares.
00:46:30.955 --> 00:46:32.855
Um, it doesn't always need to be.
00:46:32.855 --> 00:46:34.122
You'll get a dollar bonus.
00:46:34.122 --> 00:46:38.922
It's like, hey, if this gets done, first off, we're going to have the good feeling about it.
00:46:38.922 --> 00:46:42.022
But second off, let's work on a project that you're going to like let's do.
00:46:42.022 --> 00:46:43.889
Let's move on to something else.
00:46:43.889 --> 00:46:45.655
It doesn't need to be big things.
00:46:45.655 --> 00:46:51.289
Um, hey, once we're done with this project, why don't we grab lunch and sit down and talk about what you're seeing in the business?
00:46:51.289 --> 00:46:55.122
Why don't like, why don't I make sure you feel seen and heard?
00:46:55.122 --> 00:46:55.689
Why don't.
00:46:55.689 --> 00:46:58.189
I mean, those are the things that make all the difference in the world to people.
00:46:58.189 --> 00:46:59.689
I mean, we call that a stay interview.
00:46:59.689 --> 00:47:04.422
And so I would challenge people that, you know, have one stay interview this quarter.
00:47:04.422 --> 00:47:08.489
So you're going to choose one high performing value aligns employee.
00:47:08.489 --> 00:47:10.122
And you're going to ask them three things.
00:47:10.122 --> 00:47:11.655
It's what's working.
00:47:11.655 --> 00:47:16.089
What's frustrating you and what would make this an even better place to stay?
00:47:16.089 --> 00:47:16.989
I mean, those three things.
00:47:16.989 --> 00:47:18.189
What's working here?
00:47:18.189 --> 00:47:19.522
What's frustrating you?
00:47:19.522 --> 00:47:21.755
And what would make this an even better place to stay?
00:47:21.755 --> 00:47:28.089
I mean, exit interviews tell you where you failed, stay interviews tell you what you can still fix.
00:47:29.089 --> 00:47:29.955
Wow.
00:47:29.955 --> 00:47:32.289
Yeah, it's it's funny.
00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:34.689
And what I love about that is we talked about this earlier.
00:47:34.689 --> 00:47:36.522
Just three simple, direct questions.
00:47:36.522 --> 00:47:37.622
Yes.
00:47:37.622 --> 00:47:39.189
They don't.
00:47:39.189 --> 00:47:40.589
This doesn't need to be hard.
00:47:40.589 --> 00:47:42.355
No, it doesn't have to be.
00:47:42.355 --> 00:47:43.322
Ask him three questions.
00:47:43.322 --> 00:47:44.422
Shut the hell up and get out of the way.
00:47:44.422 --> 00:47:44.789
Exactly.
00:47:44.789 --> 00:47:46.189
And you can even do that just in.
00:47:46.189 --> 00:47:48.189
Just like in walking the floor.
00:47:48.189 --> 00:47:49.755
I mean, go into your organization.
00:47:49.755 --> 00:47:51.289
Don't ask them to do a ton of different things.
00:47:51.289 --> 00:47:52.789
Say, hey, what's working right now?
00:47:52.789 --> 00:47:53.622
What's not working?
00:47:53.622 --> 00:47:55.155
Is there anything I can help you with?
00:47:55.155 --> 00:47:55.422
Yeah.
00:47:55.422 --> 00:47:58.422
I mean, simple, it is simple.
00:47:58.422 --> 00:47:59.989
These are not big asks here.
00:47:59.989 --> 00:48:02.722
No. Um, should we go to the quick shots?
00:48:02.722 --> 00:48:03.355
Sure.
00:48:03.355 --> 00:48:07.722
Uh, culture fit versus skill set.
00:48:07.722 --> 00:48:10.189
If you can only have one.
00:48:10.189 --> 00:48:11.122
Yeah.
00:48:11.122 --> 00:48:12.722
Doo doo doo.
00:48:12.722 --> 00:48:13.755
Oh, this is not hard.
00:48:15.155 --> 00:48:17.189
This is culture fit because skills can be taught.
00:48:17.189 --> 00:48:18.055
Values can't.
00:48:18.055 --> 00:48:18.789
One hundred percent.
00:48:18.789 --> 00:48:19.155
That's it.
00:48:19.155 --> 00:48:19.989
It's that simple.
00:48:19.989 --> 00:48:25.889
I if I give me someone that's enthusiastic that I mean fits with everyone else.
00:48:25.889 --> 00:48:26.489
Yep.
00:48:26.489 --> 00:48:27.455
Oh my gosh.
00:48:27.455 --> 00:48:27.689
Yeah.
00:48:27.689 --> 00:48:28.789
We'll we'll find a spot.
00:48:28.789 --> 00:48:28.955
Yeah.
00:48:28.955 --> 00:48:30.655
I can train somebody to run a system.
00:48:30.655 --> 00:48:30.989
Yep.
00:48:30.989 --> 00:48:33.289
I can't train them to want to do it.
00:48:35.255 --> 00:48:40.355
Ping pong table culture better or health insurance culture better for the bottom line.
00:48:40.355 --> 00:48:43.055
I mean, come on, I'm the health insurance person.
00:48:43.055 --> 00:48:44.789
Um, here's what.
00:48:44.789 --> 00:48:45.355
Health insurance.
00:48:45.355 --> 00:48:45.789
Every time.
00:48:45.789 --> 00:48:46.789
Ping pong is a perk.
00:48:46.789 --> 00:48:47.989
So security.
00:48:47.989 --> 00:48:49.222
Health insurance is security.
00:48:49.222 --> 00:48:50.955
Security is a strategy.
00:48:50.955 --> 00:48:54.155
So people don't do their best work when they're worried about their medical bills.
00:48:54.155 --> 00:48:54.822
Correct.
00:48:54.822 --> 00:48:57.889
A stable foundation beats a flashy distraction every time.
00:48:57.889 --> 00:48:58.622
That's what I would say.
00:48:58.622 --> 00:49:04.555
I have been in a couple of businesses with ping pong tables, uh, pinball machines and pool tables.
00:49:04.555 --> 00:49:07.589
And every single time I'm like, this is a red flag.
00:49:07.589 --> 00:49:08.622
Yeah.
00:49:08.622 --> 00:49:09.689
Yeah.
00:49:09.689 --> 00:49:14.155
Josh, what's the first thing an owner should do if they realize their culture is costing them money.
00:49:14.155 --> 00:49:14.689
It's not.
00:49:14.689 --> 00:49:15.455
It's not pretending.
00:49:15.455 --> 00:49:16.489
It's an HR problem.
00:49:16.489 --> 00:49:17.189
It's not.
00:49:17.189 --> 00:49:18.322
It's leadership.
00:49:18.322 --> 00:49:19.355
One hundred percent.
00:49:19.355 --> 00:49:21.789
And this is I mean, really, we talk about culture.
00:49:21.789 --> 00:49:24.555
Culture is the result of why we do this podcast.
00:49:24.555 --> 00:49:26.055
We are really talking about leadership.
00:49:26.055 --> 00:49:32.555
Whether you're a small business manager, owner, medium business, wherever you're at, wherever you are aspiring business leader.
00:49:32.555 --> 00:49:35.455
Yes, we are talking about leadership.
00:49:35.455 --> 00:49:40.255
And I mean, and good leadership is what will give you the culture.
00:49:40.255 --> 00:49:45.055
Um, bad leadership is what makes for grumpy people the heartburn.
00:49:45.055 --> 00:49:49.389
Yeah, well, it gives you the heartburn, gives them the heartburn, gives you the people in the bank.
00:49:49.389 --> 00:49:56.989
Like I was talking about where you walk in and the hostages are the hostages.
00:49:56.989 --> 00:49:59.722
That is a great way to put that.
00:49:59.722 --> 00:50:02.489
Next time you go into the bank, be like, are there hostages in here?
00:50:02.489 --> 00:50:03.089
Like, yeah.
00:50:03.089 --> 00:50:04.489
Um. Are you safe?
00:50:04.489 --> 00:50:05.055
Yeah.
00:50:05.055 --> 00:50:06.722
No, no, they don't feel safe.
00:50:06.722 --> 00:50:10.089
That being said, thanks for listening.
00:50:10.089 --> 00:50:11.455
Uh, we always appreciate it.
00:50:11.455 --> 00:50:12.622
Go to business.
00:50:12.622 --> 00:50:13.955
Podcast.com.
00:50:13.955 --> 00:50:15.689
Check us out on all the socials.
00:50:15.689 --> 00:50:16.322
Do us a favor.
00:50:16.322 --> 00:50:18.089
Make sure you give us a review.
00:50:18.089 --> 00:50:19.189
We'd love to.
00:50:19.189 --> 00:50:21.089
I should get reviews on the bow tie.
00:50:21.089 --> 00:50:21.955
Yes, I think you should.
00:50:21.955 --> 00:50:24.689
Um, we'll see what people think about the bow tie this time.
00:50:24.689 --> 00:50:26.122
Uh, next episode.
00:50:26.122 --> 00:50:26.922
Why?
00:50:26.922 --> 00:50:32.689
Like, we've talked about how to build your culture, and now we're going to talk about why it breaks when you grow.
00:50:32.689 --> 00:50:41.822
Um, because every single time when you go through these growth spurts, you're like, oh, we're good, culture's locked down, Foundation's there, and all of a sudden you're like, why is everyone pissed off?
00:50:41.822 --> 00:50:42.322
Yes.
00:50:42.322 --> 00:50:45.422
Um, do us a favor.
00:50:45.422 --> 00:50:46.189
Take care of yourself.
00:50:46.189 --> 00:50:48.089
If you can take care of someone else, too.
00:50:48.089 --> 00:50:50.722
We will see you very, very soon.