Heather Hester
00:00:12Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting youg LGBTQ Team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.
Heather Hester
00:00:24My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.
Heather Hester
00:00:29I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.
Heather Hester
00:00:39Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.
Heather Hester
00:00:56Most of all, I want you to remember that, that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.
Steve
00:01:13Welcome back to Just Breathe.
Steve
00:01:16I am so happy you are all here today.
Steve
00:01:19Today is actually a huge, huge, huge day for the podcast and I am so excited about the episode that you are about to get to list to because it is a celebration and it is a collection of some of your most favorite guests who have been on the show in the past and who have been requested to return.
Steve
00:01:45So I have three of my most favorite humans with me today on the show.
Steve
00:01:53I have my husband Steve, and my son Connor, and my daughter Gray with us here on the show to talk about just everything that has happened in the past six and a half years.
Steve
00:02:11Question mark.
Steve
00:02:12Something like that.
Steve
00:02:14But specifically, I was really thinking about this today, that when I started this podcast In November of 2019, it was pre pandemic.
Steve
00:02:24It was Connor's freshman year of college.
Steve
00:02:28That really seems like it was a very long time ago.
Steve
00:02:33So a lot has happened even since I started this podcast.
Steve
00:02:38So I'm really, really excited just to kind of get into.
Steve
00:02:41We've had some brainstorming on things that we wanted to share, but really just to talk about what has gone on within our family and things that we've learned and things that we want to share with with you all, whether it's words of wisdom or funny stories or just give you a sneak peek into the banter that does occur.
Steve
00:03:03And just for reference sake, my other daughter, Isabel, and my youngest son, Rowan were invited to come on the show as well.
Steve
00:03:11And this is not their sweet spot, so they politely said no.
Steve
00:03:17So I just didn't want anybody to think they had been not included.
Steve
00:03:21So anyway, thank you all for being here.
Steve
00:03:23I'm so happy.
Steve
00:03:25And oh, one more thing really quick.
Steve
00:03:27I just.
Steve
00:03:27So everybody knows where everyone's coming from.
Steve
00:03:31I'm in my usual studio, but Steve is at his office.
Steve
00:03:36Grace is joining us from SCAD Savannah College of Art and design in Savannah, Georgia where they are doing a five week camp slash college classes slash experience.
Steve
00:03:53And Connor is joining us from Brooklyn.
Steve
00:03:57So this is just super fun.
Steve
00:03:59So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.
Connor
00:04:04It's our great pleasure.
Connor
00:04:05Yes.
Steve
00:04:07So this, this is.
Steve
00:04:09Yes, it might be a little.
Steve
00:04:10As we're all trying not to talk over each other, we're either going to not talk over each other or we're going to all be talking at the same time.
Steve
00:04:18Why don't we just kind of start out with a broad question or a broad just kind of reflection of just growth that we've seen in our family specifically over the past six and a half years and things that each, each of you have noticed.
Gray
00:04:41Let's see.
Gray
00:04:43I mean I think like especially over the past six years, particularly over the past four years, obviously living or moving out semi permanently, there's definitely been a shift in the I guess formalities or maybe like.
Gray
00:05:01Yeah, I guess formalities is the word I'm looking for.
Gray
00:05:04I feel like it's much less like we're just much more comfortable around each other, much more comfortable being candid, much more able to like just level with each other and come at each other with empathy versus perhaps lack of understanding.
Gray
00:05:25Whereas before I think that was, there was just wasn't as much communication.
Gray
00:05:28And obviously thank you to lots of individual and family therapy that no longer the case.
Gray
00:05:36But yeah, I would say that's definitely been the biggest shift like being able to come home after being gone for several months and having it be just a very like picking up where we left off.
Gray
00:05:49But also like it's not like I don't know, I'm.
Gray
00:05:54Yeah, it's good.
Connor
00:05:57I agree because I had the same thought that the overall family dynamic in the last six years has gotten a lot more relaxed.
Connor
00:06:09Everybody's able to be more true to theirselves, to themselves and nobody has to hide who they are or what they're thinking.
Connor
00:06:18We, we still tease each other and we laugh at each other and you know, pick on each other for things we might say.
Connor
00:06:26But everyone's welcome to express themselves and be open.
Connor
00:06:30And I'd say that's one of the biggest changes that happened since Connor came out was that part of it is the maturity level of all of the family members has continued to grow.
Connor
00:06:44But then the other part is that mom and I have become much more open minded than when we were younger parents and just more understanding for the issues that everybody is going through.
Isabel
00:06:59For me it's a little different because six and a half years ago, I was, like, 11, so there's not much I can speak to about how our family was then.
Isabel
00:07:15But I do know that in the past six and a half years, it has been a very, like, comforting place.
Isabel
00:07:27And no one's really afraid to talk about certain things where it.
Isabel
00:07:36It's made a lot of parts about growing up easier because we can have these conversations, not only, like, with my, like, parents, but, like, also with siblings, because of kind of everything.
Isabel
00:07:53We were closer than.
Isabel
00:07:57I think a lot of other people can say that they are with their family.
Steve
00:08:01Do you think that's why?
Steve
00:08:03Because people do ask, you know, do your kids get along or why?
Steve
00:08:06Why do your kids all get along so well?
Steve
00:08:09And my answer is, typically, well, they've been through a lot together, and we've all been through a lot together, and.
Steve
00:08:18But would you give another answer to that?
Isabel
00:08:23I don't know about Connor, but I would say that definitely has a big part of it.
Isabel
00:08:30And just, like, especially in the past few years, we kind of, like, we've been growing up a lot like Connor and Isabella in college.
Isabel
00:08:40So there is that opportunity for Rowan and I to get closer and get along more because of, like, that kind of just closer relationship when we're both the only ones at home.
Isabel
00:08:55But because we went through so much together, we kind of didn't have to get.
Isabel
00:09:02Go through the point of trying to understand each other.
Isabel
00:09:06Like, we were kind of already on the same page.
Isabel
00:09:08So that made it a lot easier, I guess.
Gray
00:09:13Yeah, I'd agree.
Gray
00:09:14I think.
Gray
00:09:15Yeah, like, the collective experience, I'd say, especially kind of the years, two years leading up to me leaving for college, I think were particularly challenging for everyone involved.
Gray
00:09:31And then subsequently, Covid Both provided, I think, a lot of time of being and, yes, being, like, very challenging times for everyone, not just me.
Gray
00:09:42I think it's been something for everyone at one point or another, but being able to get over those things.
Gray
00:09:50And again, thank you to communication and to therapy and to all of that.
Gray
00:09:56But then now, the past couple of years, I think I've been more.
Gray
00:10:00Just like I said, I mean, it hasn't been for me, but, like, with you guys having different dynamics at home with, like, you know, that's like, kind of allowed different relationships to form.
Gray
00:10:10But then also for those of us who haven't been home, I.
Gray
00:10:13E Is Isabel and I.
Gray
00:10:14And I guess right now, you.
Gray
00:10:16You know, the absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.
Gray
00:10:20So I think there's a level of, like, then when we come back, there's a different appreciation for that family dynamic.
Gray
00:10:28So, yeah, I don't think I answered.
Steve
00:10:31The original question, but I think that was.
Steve
00:10:35I think that was very good.
Steve
00:10:36I mean, it was really just meant to kind of lead.
Steve
00:10:39Lead the conversation somewhere.
Steve
00:10:41So that.
Steve
00:10:41That is.
Steve
00:10:42Okay.
Steve
00:10:44How do you think that.
Steve
00:10:45Or what would be your reflection on how you've grown?
Steve
00:10:52And you.
Steve
00:10:53You know, everybody's kind of already said this a little bit, but how you've grown individually or kind of as and more than just kind of the obvious ways of.
Steve
00:11:02Well, I've gotten older.
Steve
00:11:05What are.
Steve
00:11:05What are some of the things that just come right to mind?
Gray
00:11:09Dad, do you want to go first?
Connor
00:11:12Sure.
Connor
00:11:13I would say in the last six years, six and a half years, the most or the biggest area that I've changed or grown is my approach and viewpoint of social issues.
Connor
00:11:29Obviously, I've become incredibly concerned about LGBTQ issues and all that, but even beyond that, even more than that, just social issues in general that possibly in the past I thought was a very black and white type of decision.
Connor
00:11:49I realize so much in the world is gray, and that compromise is actually probably the best thing, which unfortunately, nowadays doesn't seem to ever happen.
Connor
00:12:03But it's definitely something that has.
Connor
00:12:09My mind has changed completely.
Connor
00:12:12You know, a lot of people, a lot of the listeners have been brought up to think one way.
Connor
00:12:18That's how my parents taught me.
Connor
00:12:19That's what I did forever.
Connor
00:12:21And it's good to be able to change that mindset and realize I can.
Connor
00:12:28I can discover new things and I can understand new viewpoints and not be well.
Connor
00:12:35That's the way we've always done it.
Connor
00:12:37So that's the way it has to stay.
Connor
00:12:39So that would be it.
Steve
00:12:42Love that.
Gray
00:12:44I guess for me, the biggest over the past six years, I guess, like, you know, especially as it relates to the topics of this podcast.
Gray
00:12:58You know, I think my relation, my understanding of my relationship to queerness has definitely continued to evolve.
Gray
00:13:07And that was, like, always the thing, like, you know, that therapists would say, especially, like, when I first came out, it's like, oh, yeah, that's like, you know, you came out, but that's, like, just the first step.
Gray
00:13:16No, I think I really fully grasped the validity of that statement, I guess, because it really has just continued to be, you know, my understanding of what being gay.
Gray
00:13:28But more, I guess I say now I say, like, queer more than gay, just because I think it is such a broader community that I find connection to.
Gray
00:13:37And, you know, the first couple years, I had a very narrow viewpoint of, like, what it meant to be gay and what being gay could be.
Gray
00:13:46And I think that.
Gray
00:13:47That, you know, especially after coming to New York and being able to surround myself with all these different.
Gray
00:13:52This entire, you know, a very broad range, a very broad spectrum of the queer experience, it's really just showing me that it's, like, so much more than just, like, one thing.
Gray
00:14:03Like, it's not just sexuality, it's not just gender.
Gray
00:14:06Like, it really, you know, given the opportunity, can permeate every aspect of your life.
Gray
00:14:12And, yeah, it's just something that I could think in turn, I've come to be.
Gray
00:14:16Just be so very grateful for.
Gray
00:14:18Like, it's what I love most about myself.
Gray
00:14:22So, yeah, it's great.
Isabel
00:14:25I don't know, I feel like there's, like, a lot of things that I could probably say I've grown, but I think one of the main ways I've changed in the past few years is, like, comfort in who I am, or, like, I guess, pride, you could say, in who I am.
Isabel
00:14:51And, like, a lot of that comes from, like, watching Connor go through kind of everything he's been through and kind of taking it into my own life and figuring it out.
Isabel
00:15:07Because I was a very different person, obviously, in sixth grade.
Isabel
00:15:16And now I've learned a lot of new things about myself and, like, I'm happy to say, like, I'm comfortable with all of those aspects.
Isabel
00:15:28And I don't know if I was ever mad at myself in the beginning, but I was definitely not in understanding.
Isabel
00:15:38And being able to look up to Connor in these scenarios was always, like.
Isabel
00:15:47I say I owe a lot of, like, who I am to him because I just.
Isabel
00:15:53I watch everyone and that's, I think, how I've changed a lot just by putting different things into practice.
Gray
00:16:03Love that.
Gray
00:16:04And I think, you know, not to.
Gray
00:16:07I don't know if kudos is the appropriate term because obviously it's just a matter of.
Gray
00:16:12But yeah, kudos to, like, the fact that, you know, you've started this journey that much earlier.
Gray
00:16:18And obviously that's like, something that's been afforded partially in fact, by, like, you know, I'm glad that I can be a role model and obviously mom and dad and everyone else in my family being incredibly supportive.
Gray
00:16:29But, like, obviously it's still the, you know, it's impressive that at an even younger age at.
Gray
00:16:35I'm not going to do the math right now, but at an earlier age, you were, you know, willing to take that first step.
Gray
00:16:41That can be incredibly scary.
Gray
00:16:42So, yes, just appreciate all of that.
Gray
00:16:48What about you, mom.
Connor
00:16:49What I was going to say.
Connor
00:16:51What about the host?
Steve
00:16:53Well, I just want to say something about that, too.
Steve
00:16:56I think that it has been so much fun to, you know, when I do allow myself to just observe and not, you know, get involved or overthink or, you know, do do all the things that a mom does, I find myself very taken by, well, both of you.
Steve
00:17:21But it.
Steve
00:17:22In this very specific situation, every opportunity you've had, Gray to learn, you have watched Connor.
Steve
00:17:31You have observed every step.
Steve
00:17:34And I think way before any of us realized that you were observing him and that that was kind of your, like, one of your, I don't know, superpowers.
Steve
00:17:44Your go to is like, you're very good at, like, kind of taking everything in and then really making very good decisions based on that information that you've gathered.
Steve
00:17:54And I.
Steve
00:17:55One of the things I always go back to is when you had the opportunity to go to Compass for those couple of weeks and you would talk to Connor about it, and Connor had said, make the most of it.
Steve
00:18:08Have an open mind.
Steve
00:18:09This is an opportunity.
Steve
00:18:11You can either hate it and fight it, or you can take this as an opportunity to learn.
Steve
00:18:15And when you, like, just soaked it in and your maturity is, you know, way beyond your years, not only in the way that you see things and approach things and handle things, but just in your, like, ability to be still and to observe.
Steve
00:18:37So that would be my kind of observation of your growth over the past six and a half years.
Steve
00:18:45Not to say that that maybe wouldn't have happened, because I think, you know, that's pieces of.
Steve
00:18:51That is inherently who you are.
Steve
00:18:52But certainly I think, you know, having being able to really explore and be comfortable enough to talk about, you know, who you are and, you know, think about it and talk about it with Connor, talk about it with dad and me and Isabel and Rowan.
Steve
00:19:10So I love that.
Steve
00:19:12And.
Steve
00:19:13And then I just, you know, I go back to this a lot with you, Connor.
Steve
00:19:20You know, I think it was.
Steve
00:19:23It is the.
Steve
00:19:24It's the both.
Steve
00:19:25And like, I.
Steve
00:19:27It always does make me sad thinking that you knew for as long as you knew before you said anything.
Steve
00:19:40And I'm so grateful that you did when you did and that, I mean, like, you just.
Steve
00:19:49You taking that, like, one step, like, even though like a million things blew up around it.
Steve
00:19:55I mean, it completely changed the trajectory of each of our lives and our family.
Steve
00:20:04So in a very positive way eventually, in case you all didn't get that.
Steve
00:20:12Yeah.
Steve
00:20:13I mean, it's.
Steve
00:20:14When I think about.
Steve
00:20:15I just get so, like, it is extraordinary to me.
Steve
00:20:18And I was even saying today I was having coffee with Kate and she was even remarking, you know, having been along this journey with us, like, you know how I feel and kind of, you know, like dad had just said, like I would say that's.
Steve
00:20:35It's hard for me to pick one.
Steve
00:20:37One way that I've grown because I feel like I am a vastly different human being than I was seven years ago.
Steve
00:20:50But, you know, I was like, I think I get.
Steve
00:20:54So for me, I think one of the most exciting things about it is, like, all of a sudden I had permission to connect to me instead of, like, connecting outwards.
Steve
00:21:09Right.
Steve
00:21:10So, like, always trying to be like, oh, well, this is.
Steve
00:21:12This is what this person says I should be, or this is what this thing says I need to do.
Steve
00:21:17And instead being like, that's all noise and that's not me.
Steve
00:21:22Like, I need to listen here.
Steve
00:21:25And.
Steve
00:21:27And I think that was one of the biggest things that, you know, it's taken time and a lot of work, but I think that's been the biggest growth for me is to be like, this is.
Steve
00:21:38This is who I am.
Steve
00:21:41This is what I think.
Steve
00:21:42This is what I believe.
Steve
00:21:44This is my family.
Steve
00:21:46Don't mess with them.
Steve
00:21:47I think it was always like that.
Steve
00:21:49But I mean, I'm really like that now, so watch out.
Gray
00:21:53Love it.
Connor
00:21:57Yes.
Gray
00:21:58Yes.
Steve
00:21:59I am officially 20 minutes in and I've already cried, so that's okay.
Isabel
00:22:05Yeah, I don't think we were.
Gray
00:22:06We weren't surprised.
Steve
00:22:09Actually.
Connor
00:22:10I'm surprised.
Connor
00:22:11I haven't.
Connor
00:22:11I know.
Connor
00:22:14Episode 50, I believe, was the one I was on.
Connor
00:22:18Which, by the way, 50 more and I.
Connor
00:22:20And I get to come back.
Connor
00:22:21Needs to have been at least a number of times between that.
Steve
00:22:26Just have to ask.
Gray
00:22:28Well, he wants you to ask him.
Gray
00:22:30He likes it.
Steve
00:22:31He does.
Steve
00:22:32I think he's going to retire just so he can be the co.
Isabel
00:22:35Host.
Gray
00:22:35There you go.
Connor
00:22:38No, then I'd have to read books that people wrote.
Steve
00:22:42They're probably all on audio.
Isabel
00:22:44Yeah, there you go.
Steve
00:22:47Right.
Steve
00:22:47I'll read them to you.
Steve
00:22:50I'll give you the.
Steve
00:22:51The one page, like Cliff Notes version.
Gray
00:22:54Yeah, yeah.
Gray
00:22:55That's all you need.
Steve
00:22:56Oh, my gosh.
Steve
00:23:00So if you could just pick one singular thing that you wish you would have known seven years ago, what would it be?
Connor
00:23:13I can go first, but I have two crazy.
Steve
00:23:18All right, go nuts.
Steve
00:23:20You can do it.
Connor
00:23:22And actually, if you listen to the one episode I was in, I'm sure this was the advice I gave then, too.
Connor
00:23:30Validation.
Connor
00:23:31Validating.
Connor
00:23:32Somebody.
Connor
00:23:34It took me first, it took me a good year to even understand what it meant, but then years of practice, and I'm pretty decent at it now.
Connor
00:23:44But the key was, and I still am a very positive person and very.
Connor
00:23:51The glass is half full.
Connor
00:23:53But I would portray that on every conversation that anybody was having with me.
Connor
00:23:58If Connor was struggling, I would tell him the silver lining or.
Connor
00:24:03But the bright side is, and I realized, thanks to many of the therapists involved at the beginning, that Connor didn't need me to try to fix it or tell him what was good about it.
Connor
00:24:17He just needed me to actually say, I.
Connor
00:24:21I heard him, I understand him.
Connor
00:24:24If I might have some suggestion after, that's fine.
Connor
00:24:28But to actually at least just validate what he was feeling and what he was going through.
Connor
00:24:34The same one with all of the kids now and even.
Connor
00:24:39Even mom, although that's sometimes the hardest of them.
Steve
00:24:45I just need you to hear me.
Steve
00:24:47That's it.
Connor
00:24:48Well, no, I can hear.
Connor
00:25:43It's just sometimes I just can't agree.
Connor
00:25:45But anyway, so that was the biggest thing that I learned in the process of all of this.
Connor
00:25:51And then the other is that especially for all of the dads out there, and I just thought I was strong enough to not need help.
Connor
00:26:06And eventually, it eventually became very clear that I did need some help, some therapy, someone to talk to, somebody to just let you know, instead of bottling everything up.
Connor
00:26:19And a good two years in, I think it was before I finally agreed.
Connor
00:26:25And that was.
Connor
00:26:27It was only because things became incredibly clear to me that I couldn't just do this on my own.
Connor
00:26:33And I still don't see Ed very often, like, very regularly.
Connor
00:26:38But it is still great to once a month, whatever it is, just kind of check in and have somebody to bounce things off of.
Connor
00:26:47So therapy, professional help is incredibly important.
Gray
00:26:53That is.
Gray
00:26:54Yeah, I think that's great.
Gray
00:26:56I think definitely the destigmatizing of these things that, like, especially at this point in 2023, like, it is such a ridiculous thing to still hold on to some sort of reservation about it in that capacity that it's like, you know, it's not for her men or whatever.
Gray
00:27:20But.
Gray
00:27:21Yeah.
Steve
00:27:22Or it means you're broken.
Gray
00:27:24Right?
Gray
00:27:24Right.
Steve
00:27:25Or it means you're weak or.
Steve
00:27:27Right.
Steve
00:27:28All of the different things.
Steve
00:27:29So, yes, I think that's all of this good to talk about it in a positive way and so people understand it.
Steve
00:27:36I think that a lot of times people don't really understand that.
Steve
00:27:40I mean, at the end of the day, it's an Objective person who you can say anything to and they're not going to judge you.
Steve
00:27:52And it's an objective person outside of your people.
Steve
00:27:55Right, Right.
Gray
00:27:57Yeah, exactly.
Gray
00:27:58Yeah.
Gray
00:27:59They have no stake in the.
Gray
00:28:02Whatever.
Steve
00:28:03Exactly.
Gray
00:28:07For me, the biggest thing that I think, you know, really sticking with the branding here, but.
Gray
00:28:16And I guess I kind of appreciated it to some capacity to some extent earlier on, but, like, truly kind of grasping the concept of impermanence.
Steve
00:28:28Right.
Gray
00:28:29Like, you know, that was obviously what I chose.
Gray
00:28:31Here's my first tattoo when I turned 18.
Gray
00:28:34And before that, it was my, like, this is, like, what I took from my.
Gray
00:28:39My extended therapy session junior year.
Gray
00:28:44And, you know, that's, you know, then also what I made my whole, like, senior project.
Gray
00:28:51That's what I titled it.
Gray
00:28:53And, yeah, I just, like.
Gray
00:28:57I don't know, I think especially, like, in connection to my senior project, because that was something where recently I was in a very retrospective HUD space, too, because I was, you know, just thinking a lot, reflecting a lot about, like, the experiences that had shaped me and the person I am today.
Gray
00:29:10And, like, honestly, all the experiences that I could, like, think of had kind of happened after I came out.
Gray
00:29:15That was obviously something that, like, as mentioned, you know, caused a shift in our life paths in some capacity.
Gray
00:29:24But, like, you know, a lot of the stuff that happened, like, there were lots of good and lots of bad that kind of went into it over the past six, seven years, but kind of, like, I wish I had known from the start that, like.
Gray
00:29:39Or appreciated from the start that, like, you know, none of these things are, like, their effects are impermanent.
Gray
00:29:47The situations themselves are impermanent.
Gray
00:29:50Everything kind of, like, comes to an end.
Gray
00:29:53And, like, that's a good thing because, I don't know, I think there was just a lot of bad stuff that was going on.
Gray
00:29:59It's like, being able to appreciate that, like, this two shall pass would have been comforting because, again, like, it's not something where, like, I regret anything that happened or, like, would do anything differently because it's, like, led me to the point I'm at today.
Gray
00:30:13And I'm, like, very appreciative at that point, but, like, yeah, just knowing that it's.
Steve
00:30:24I think that makes a ton of sense.
Steve
00:30:25Connor, I think, like, kind of had you, especially early on, really been able to grasp that concept of impermanence, I think that would have been very comforting for you.
Steve
00:30:39Yeah, this moment in time is really hard, and I'm really struggling, but it is a moment in time.
Steve
00:30:46It is not for always, so.
Gray
00:30:50Exactly.
Steve
00:30:51Yeah.
Steve
00:30:53I love that.
Steve
00:30:55Yeah.
Isabel
00:30:57I don't know.
Isabel
00:30:58I don't know, like, what one thing I would change, I guess, like, from the beginning or I guess I don't know when, but I would.
Isabel
00:31:13I think I held a lot of anger towards the situation, but I wish I could, like, remind myself I was 11, 12, you know, so the things that I knew or didn't know were for the best.
Isabel
00:31:37And, yeah, that was.
Isabel
00:31:40It was a tough thing for me to grasp for a while.
Isabel
00:31:42I think I've had many conversations with mom about that, but I definitely see it now.
Isabel
00:31:54And I don't know, even, like, if someone.
Isabel
00:31:59If you're going through something where you feel like you're being like you're not getting all the information, like, at the same time, there might be a good reason, you know, not that, like, there are some scenarios where you should know, but there's also a lot of things are good for you, and I didn't need to know everything, so.
Gray
00:32:24Ignorance is bliss.
Steve
00:32:27It really is.
Steve
00:32:31Oh, my goodness.
Steve
00:32:33That is a really, really good one.
Steve
00:32:35I love.
Steve
00:32:35I love all of that.
Steve
00:32:38I think what I would have liked to have known, I would have liked to have been better educated.
Steve
00:32:45Like, I would have liked to have known more about how, like, immediately how I could support Connor and how to recognize things and how I know this is more than one thing, but it's kind of a general.
Steve
00:33:03Like, I just.
Steve
00:33:05When I think back and I think, you know, all the stuff that I know now, I would.
Steve
00:33:11I would take like a fraction of that because I just think that, you know, I look back and I think, oh, my goodness, had I known, had we known.
Steve
00:33:19Right.
Steve
00:33:20That just would have made that initial.
Steve
00:33:23Those initial pieces of the journey so much easier, so much more smooth.
Steve
00:33:28Perhaps not quite as, you know, scary or anxiety inducing or, you know, all the things.
Steve
00:33:36So I think that that is mine and that, you know, is also what drives me to do this and to do what I do.
Connor
00:33:46So, yeah, I was going to say, I wish there were just Breathe podcast back then.
Connor
00:33:52And I wish.
Connor
00:33:53I wish Chrysalis Mama was around.
Connor
00:33:58Would have been a lot easier to get an education on this stuff.
Gray
00:34:02Yeah, that's true.
Steve
00:34:03Yes.
Steve
00:34:04And I think too, like, for, you know, you and I were like, you know, it is definitely something where you're kind of like, I want to learn on my own.
Steve
00:34:12Right.
Steve
00:34:12I mean, there are a lot of questions where, you know, like, we would want to talk about it either together or as a family, but not necessarily, like, in a huge group setting, even though we did that too But I think that's, you know, one of the things where it's, like, really nice, like, had we been able to find, you know, information where we could all just, like, sit together or be like, here, go, you know, check out this link and.
Steve
00:34:39Or go listen to this podcast, or, you know, this.
Steve
00:34:43This is really great over here.
Steve
00:34:44And I, you know, I do also think it's.
Steve
00:34:47In the past six, seven years, there has been so much more information that has been much more readily available.
Steve
00:34:56So that is good also.
Steve
00:34:58That would be mine.
Steve
00:35:00Okay, so I would love, and I think everyone would love to know what advice you would give to either a kid coming out to a family who was kind of, you know, way earlier in their journey, what are just words of wisdom and, and thinking too, like, sorry, but taking into account kind of where we are today.
Steve
00:35:32I mean, not to bring it down, but in a social, political sense, like, what are the words of.
Steve
00:35:41Of wisdom that you would give?
Steve
00:35:42Kind of taking that into account as well.
Connor
00:35:46That just got deeper, taking into account.
Gray
00:35:50And the compact, like, and like.
Steve
00:35:52Well, like, as you're giving.
Steve
00:35:54So, okay, for example, I've been.
Steve
00:35:57This is a question I've actually been asking a number of guests recently as, like, kind of the final question of the interview of the show.
Steve
00:36:04And one of the things that I found extremely interesting is that least two of them, if not three, their first thing they have said is, make sure that you're safe before you even decide to come out.
Steve
00:36:18Make sure that your home is safe, that your environment is safe.
Steve
00:36:23And I thought that is such a great answer considering.
Steve
00:36:28And I think too, like, kind of geographically considering where you are.
Steve
00:36:34So that is the example that.
Steve
00:36:37And I just, I think it is.
Steve
00:36:39Obviously, you know, there's so many pieces, but this is more of like a general, like, you know, if somebody came to you and said, hey, my.
Steve
00:36:47My kid just came out, like, can you give any words of wisdom?
Steve
00:36:52What would it be?
Gray
00:36:54Got it.
Gray
00:36:55Well, Dad, I thought you had something, and I cut you off.
Connor
00:36:57You want me to go first?
Steve
00:36:59Well.
Connor
00:37:02I can't say that it's changed from, like, with the current environment of society.
Connor
00:37:10It's still the same.
Connor
00:37:11If you have a gut feeling, trust your gut.
Connor
00:37:16Don't just take the easy way out.
Connor
00:37:22If you see or sense that something's upsetting your child or affecting your child, and you say, is everything okay?
Connor
00:37:36And they say, everything's fine.
Connor
00:37:41And you're like, okay, great, now I can leave.
Connor
00:37:43Because I've.
Connor
00:37:44I've asked the question.
Connor
00:37:45I'm off the hook.
Connor
00:37:46If, you know Something's wrong.
Connor
00:37:48Dig deeper.
Connor
00:37:50Don't let it just go.
Connor
00:37:52When you feel like there's something bigger going on.
Steve
00:38:01Love that.
Steve
00:38:03Yeah.
Connor
00:38:06I've got a different version of the question for Grace to try to answer.
Connor
00:38:13What would.
Connor
00:38:14What advice would you give families who have one of the children is coming out or came out, but they have younger siblings?
Connor
00:38:23How to handle it with the young?
Connor
00:38:25Like, what advice do you give to handle it with the younger siblings?
Connor
00:38:29When do you tell them?
Connor
00:38:30Do you feel like there was a right and wrong for the way we explained everything to you?
Isabel
00:38:39I mean, obviously, I think it's up to the person that is queer or whatever they are, and, like, they can come out kind of whenever.
Isabel
00:38:52Like, it feels right to them.
Isabel
00:38:54And, I mean, I can't really speak for Rowan.
Isabel
00:38:59I think the way that you guys did it was, like, handled really well.
Isabel
00:39:07I don't think I'll ever forget that tea shop.
Isabel
00:39:12I think at that point, at least, I knew something like that.
Isabel
00:39:20I knew there was something that I didn't know that you guys did know.
Isabel
00:39:24So at that point, when you start to realize that, like, there's an age where they.
Isabel
00:39:30Where we are starting to understand, and if the person who is the one coming out is comfortable with it, letting them know, like, the younger kids know as soon as possible or trying to start educating them as soon as possible will, you know, make it an easier transition.
Isabel
00:39:56And I think educating is always.
Isabel
00:39:58Even if there isn't a.
Isabel
00:40:01Another queer sibling in the house, educate your children, because just from a very young age, it should be something that's taught as if it's like learning your Alphabet, learning your colors, anything like that.
Isabel
00:40:17There shouldn't be much of, like, a difference.
Isabel
00:40:21And that makes it so much less of a.
Isabel
00:40:25Like, a burden or a process to come out or to explain when it's like a.
Isabel
00:40:31I mean, Rowan, like, no one comes out to me as straight, so it's like, you wouldn't really have to have it coming out if they already have everything kind of intertwined, I guess.
Gray
00:40:44Very well articulated.
Gray
00:40:45Yeah, I agree.
Gray
00:40:48I think, you know, I think there is that element of, like, yeah, like, it should be this way.
Gray
00:40:52And, like, there's absolutely no trying to tie a moral.
Gray
00:40:58A moral or ethical or political, you know, connotation to sexuality and gender in the way that it has in today's world.
Gray
00:41:05I think obviously skews it in a way that, like, you know, Grace and I didn't grow up in a place where we're really confronted with that.
Gray
00:41:16Like, I think, you know, we objectively are quite fortunate to grow up in the place that we grew up, you know, yes, there are still, you know, some bad eggs, but that can be said about anywhere.
Gray
00:41:26But, like, generally speaking, a pretty blue area.
Gray
00:41:29And now I've moved to, you know, one of the gayest places in the world.
Gray
00:41:34So, you know, my perspective, I personally come from anything.
Gray
00:41:39Grace, I can kind of say sort of as well come from, like, perspectives of not really having that outside being very fortunate to not have to deal with that outside factor of.
Gray
00:41:49Well, you know, what if, you know, people in my school or people in my neighborhood or people in my household are actively against queer people as a political ideology.
Gray
00:42:01And therefore, you know, with all of today's politics, that has obviously much darker implications, scarier implications.
Gray
00:42:09And that's why.
Gray
00:42:10Yeah, like, what you'd said originally about there being a.
Gray
00:42:15Sorry, I know we're running time, but there being, you know, making sure you're safe is obviously first priority.
Gray
00:42:21But I would say for, like, me coming from a place of, like, being very lucky and having a very different experience having.
Gray
00:42:31I think it's important to.
Gray
00:42:33For there to be a balance and like, I guess, boundaries for.
Gray
00:42:38Or, like, respecting the person who's coming out, like, just like boundaries with relation to sexuality.
Gray
00:42:47Just because it is something that is so deeply personal that, like, while there is absolutely an aspect of, like, how does this impact the family, how does this impact our relationships?
Gray
00:42:55First, I think, has to come take a very core understanding of that person's, like, relationships themselves.
Gray
00:43:02And I think it can be really hard to articulate anything outside of that before.
Gray
00:43:07So, yeah, just like, you know, recognizing that it's like, it is their process, you know, it's.
Gray
00:43:16They will do it at their pace and, like, you can't really force it.
Gray
00:43:23So.
Steve
00:43:24Yeah, totally.
Steve
00:43:27So I think kind of to your point, Connor, and actually both to what you and Grace said, which I really, really like because I typically, when people ask me this question when I'm being interviewed, the answer that I will often give because it's often asked as, what is your advice to parents and parents who just had a child come out?
Steve
00:43:50And my answer is, typically, make sure they know they are loved, unconditional love this kid, no matter what.
Steve
00:44:00But there's so much more to that that I always kind of want to add.
Steve
00:44:05But, you know, I typically am like, trying to, you know, you gotta start somewhere and then go.
Steve
00:44:12And one of the things that really has.
Steve
00:44:16I've been thinking about a lot lately is be willing to be uncomfortable.
Steve
00:44:22Be.
Steve
00:44:22To have either the uncomfortable Conversations to your point just now about respecting the boundaries like that is.
Steve
00:44:30That's uncomfortable for a parent to not know everything and to know when you've hit that boundary and to back off, and that takes a little bit of practice and that.
Steve
00:44:43That is uncomfortable.
Steve
00:44:45So be uncomfortable.
Steve
00:44:47Right.
Steve
00:44:48Be uncomfortable to what you said, Steve, to.
Steve
00:44:52When you know something is wrong.
Steve
00:44:54The easy thing is to just.
Steve
00:44:57Okay, well, I asked.
Steve
00:44:58Okay, I'm done now.
Steve
00:44:59Check.
Steve
00:44:59Done.
Steve
00:45:00I did.
Steve
00:45:00I did it.
Steve
00:45:02Your gut, as we learned all of us, your intuition will.
Steve
00:45:08Does not stop.
Steve
00:45:09It just gets louder and more annoying and shows up in a thousand different ways, telling you there's something going on and it gets progressively more uncomfortable.
Steve
00:45:21Right.
Steve
00:45:21So embrace that being uncomfortable and ask those questions that you may feel like, I don't want to ask this, but you need to ask or bring up the conversations, because I know one of the things early on, had we been able to have conversations in our house in a way that was so much more open and just easy about sex, there would have been so many questions that would have been, you know, answered for you earlier on and for everyone earlier on, and we would have learned things that we needed to know earlier on had we been willing to be uncomfortable way earlier.
Steve
00:46:06Right.
Steve
00:46:07So just get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Steve
00:46:11It's awesome.
Connor
00:46:13Settle into the chaos.
Steve
00:46:15Battle into the chaos.
Steve
00:46:17That's right.
Gray
00:46:17Exactly.
Steve
00:46:18Was that.
Steve
00:46:19Was that number two or number three?
Gray
00:46:22The third.
Gray
00:46:23Yes.
Gray
00:46:24They got to New York.
Steve
00:46:25Yeah.
Gray
00:46:27But yes, I agree.
Steve
00:46:30So as we kind of finish up, is there anything that either of you just kind of want to throw out there as a.
Steve
00:46:40Either reflection or celebration or.
Steve
00:46:46I mean, let's just wait quick.
Steve
00:46:48Before.
Steve
00:46:48Before either of you weigh in, can we just talk about.
Steve
00:46:51For the fact.
Steve
00:46:52The fact that you just graduated.
Steve
00:46:55We've not talked about that yet on the podcast, so this is exciting.
Connor
00:47:02Cum laude with honors.
Steve
00:47:04Yes, laude with honors from nyu.
Steve
00:47:09With that, I have personally named motion graphics engineering.
Steve
00:47:15But that is so not what it's called.
Steve
00:47:16Connor, can you.
Gray
00:47:17It's.
Gray
00:47:18Yeah, it kind of gets the gist of it.
Gray
00:47:20Right.
Gray
00:47:21Interactive design and media.
Connor
00:47:24I have it on a post.
Gray
00:47:25It's a lot of adjectives.
Gray
00:47:32And yeah, we'll hopefully get a motion design job.
Gray
00:47:37Currently unemployed.
Gray
00:47:40Which sends shivers down dad's spine.
Connor
00:47:42If any listeners are in the market for motion graphics.
Gray
00:47:49Just any job, just.
Steve
00:47:51You know, throw my uber talented.
Steve
00:47:54I mean, let me know.
Steve
00:47:55I will send you his portfolio.
Steve
00:47:59Yeah, Steve and I are actively sending it to as many people as we can.
Steve
00:48:04It is.
Steve
00:48:05He is incredibly talented.
Steve
00:48:07And.
Steve
00:48:08And I'm not just Saying that because I'm his mom.
Steve
00:48:10So I'm just like, first, he does.
Connor
00:48:14All of the video work for Hester.
Connor
00:48:16Painting and decorating.
Gray
00:48:17Yeah.
Connor
00:48:18Go to our website.
Connor
00:48:19You'll see.
Gray
00:48:19Plugging everything now we've gotten all the plugs.
Gray
00:48:22This is good.
Gray
00:48:24We'll put a link in the description.
Steve
00:48:26Yes.
Steve
00:48:27There'll be a link in the show notes for everything mentioned today.
Gray
00:48:30Oh, my goodness.
Connor
00:48:32So anyways, and then while we're in the.
Connor
00:48:35In the celebrating people mode, I would like to celebrate you, Heather.
Connor
00:48:41This is amazing, what you've put together over these four years or whatever it's been.
Connor
00:48:47The podcast is incredible.
Connor
00:48:49100 is amazing.
Connor
00:48:51The book that you're writing is going to be amazing.
Connor
00:48:55Everything you do, I am incredibly proud of.
Connor
00:48:57And you should be celebrated for everything you've done to help parents, families, teens that are coming out.
Connor
00:49:06The whole process, it's.
Connor
00:49:08It's incredible.
Gray
00:49:10Couldn't have said it better myself.
Steve
00:49:13You had that written down.
Connor
00:49:17Good thing you recorded it.
Gray
00:49:19Yeah.
Steve
00:49:20I'm just gonna play that over and over again.
Gray
00:49:26Is huge.
Gray
00:49:29Very exciting.
Steve
00:49:30Extraordinary.
Gray
00:49:32Can't wait for 200, right?
Steve
00:49:34Well, it'll come a lot faster now that I'm.
Steve
00:49:36I'm doing weekly episodes.
Connor
00:49:39That might be the next one I'm invited on to.
Steve
00:49:42Oh, my goodness.
Steve
00:49:43Connor.
Gray
00:49:44No, you're not gonna be there till 500.
Gray
00:49:46Sorry.
Steve
00:49:50At least three more times before you get to come on.
Connor
00:49:53The reviews have come in and they want no more.
Gray
00:49:55Steve, we'll do a poll.
Gray
00:49:57Yeah.
Connor
00:49:58The focus group said cut the dad.
Gray
00:50:01He cries a lot.
Steve
00:50:05Oh, my goodness.
Steve
00:50:06Oh, my goodness.
Steve
00:50:07So, all right, so anything.
Steve
00:50:10Anything else that you just want to add at the.
Steve
00:50:12To close us up to finish off this amazing episode that I'm so delighted to put out there.
Connor
00:50:23That is it.
Connor
00:50:24Thanks for listening.
Gray
00:50:25Yeah.
Gray
00:50:26Thank you for listening.
Gray
00:50:30Yeah.
Gray
00:50:32Thank you for having us on and asking for opinion on these things.
Connor
00:50:36Yeah.
Connor
00:50:37Thanks for caring enough about your family to listen.
Gray
00:50:40Yes.
Gray
00:50:41Yes.
Steve
00:50:42Oh, there we go.
Steve
00:50:44Look at that.
Steve
00:50:46Oh, my gosh.
Steve
00:50:46Well, thank you both for being.
Steve
00:50:51Being here because you are fan favorites and.
Steve
00:50:55And I love the opportunity to actually see you, Connor, because just so everybody knows, Connor does not do FaceTime.
Steve
00:51:05He does phone.
Gray
00:51:06Yeah.
Gray
00:51:06Absolutely not.
Steve
00:51:07I get to see his gorgeous face every few months now, and I miss it.
Steve
00:51:13So this.
Steve
00:51:16And no, I just appreciate you both taking time out of your days and being a part of this podcast, because if it weren't for you, this would not be here.
Steve
00:51:30So thank you.
Gray
00:51:32My utmost pleasure.
Gray
00:51:33Thank you for wanted me to be a part of it.
Connor
00:51:36Okay.
Steve
00:51:37Love you.
Heather Hester
00:51:41Thank you for listening today.
Heather Hester
00:51:44If you enjoyed this episode, share it.
Heather Hester
00:51:46You can also catch episodes on my YouTube channel at Chrysalismamma9499.
Heather Hester
00:51:55And if you're interested in my raw thoughts on today's most pressing time topics, you can find me on TikTok at chrysalis mama.
Heather Hester
00:52:04If you're looking for more support, come join us in the Just breathe community text Breathe to 847-88-3324 to learn more.
Heather Hester
00:52:19And remember that you are not alone on this journey.
Heather Hester
00:52:23Until next time n.
