Investing in Litigation Finance with Your IRA

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Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast.
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This is Matt Sorensen, and I am lucky to be joined in episode in studio with Chris Kohlberg from Provati Capital.
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We're gonna be talking about litigation finance.
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This is an interesting asset class.
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Um, I've got to know Chris through Alex and the people at Provati.
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And I've been super interested in what they've been doing in and the success that they've had with their fund.
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So I figured we had them on today to talk about an asset class I bet you have not heard about, and that is litigation finance.
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So, Chris, welcome to the podcast and thanks for coming in studio.
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Thank you, Matt.
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Pleased to be here.
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All right.
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Well, let's dig into it.
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Uh obviously we have a lot of people who use their IRAs, people who invest in alternative assets.
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They're familiar with the different, you know, classes, private credit, private equity, real estate, oil and gas.
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But I'll bet they are not as familiar with litigation finance.
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Certainly.
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I mean, it's it's something that uh is growing, certainly it's becoming its own asset class in its own right, but it is growing.
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It's a growing asset class, and it's not the obvious choice, even though as an attorney, you understand that uh the legal vertical in this country is a$400 billion plus revenue annual.
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So it's one of the uh one of the largest in the United States.
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Yeah, so what is litigation finance?
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I mean, it's a big business, obviously, everybody knows lawyers, there's all the TV shows about it.
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I'm gonna bring up the movie A Civil Action, as we're talking about today, one of my top ten favorite movies of all time, which does have litigation finance in it.
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Certainly.
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If you're familiar with the movie.
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Certainly.
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You guys, anybody familiar with it?
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Okay.
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All right, so let's dig into it.
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So what is the income opportunity there?
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Like what how is litigation finance this revenue opportunity?
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Let's keep it simple here.
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Absolutely.
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What what I'll do is let for the benefit of the of your viewers, I'd like to maybe just sort of start off, talk a little bit about the big picture, what litigation finance is, and then sort of bring it forward.
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When you say to someone who maybe is perhaps familiar with litigation finance, automatically their mind goes to, well, I understand that.
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It's when a litigation funder funds a case, the expenses for a case, and then that case can be carried forward, right?
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Because usually attorneys will look at this, and really it's because of the length of the case it takes.
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It's their design to make sure the case goes through, because uh attorneys may not get a fee on the case for a couple of years because of the time it takes for this.
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That's traditional litigation finance.
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Non-recourse, very fairly long, can be seven to ten years.
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It's got a binary component to it, meaning that you either win or you lose.
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That's litigation finance.
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Law firm portfolio finance, on the other hand, is where the lender will take a look at the entirety of that law firm.
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They will take a look at the entirety of the law firm and lend money to the law firm based on a number of qualitative measures that really takes a look at and then has recourse on the entirety of that law firm's cases and their receivable and perhaps even their future cases.
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So those are two very different things, and there's recourse within this.
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So that's the landscape as it exists right now.
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Okay.
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So it could be individual cases here that there's financing for, and there is, or it's a portfolio of that firm's, you know, 100 cases that they might have, a thousand, whatever this could be the case is.
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Yeah.
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Um what is it?
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Why does that business opportunity exist though?
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Like, are the banks lending in this space to these lawyers and law firms?
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That where did that opportunity come?
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Because Yeah, that's interesting.
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That's a great question.
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Post-08, really, the global financial crisis, there's really where litigation finance in terms of what we do really came to the fore.
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Because prior to that, banks were were able to lend in the space, but Basil IV's banking regulation prevents banks from utilizing collateral uh for the law firm and recognizing the cases as the collateral to lend to the law firm.
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So it's like an unsecured loan for them.
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Right.
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They can't consider it secured.
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Correct.
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So that's why we exist because we have the specialty that knowledge base in order to assess those cases, provide a value, understand uh in terms of what you're lending against, what you what you're pledging and lending to uh for the firm.
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And it's a variety of different things, not just are the cases uh is that the specialty of it.
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There's much more there.
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Yeah, I mean you always you hear J Jamie Diamond complaining about how their hands are always tied and all these financing situations.
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It's gotta be the exact same for litigation finances.
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Like the bank just gets it just they get penalized really in how they're regulated is when they lend in these areas, even though they might view it as secured and a secured asset, it's uh I didn't realize that for litigation finance, but you're in that same classification.
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Um okay, so so there's a lot of this non-bank lending here, I guess we could say in that space.
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Um, but the yields have got to be attractive, right?
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I mean, what's the the yield opportunity when you're out lending um to these law firms?
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I mean, this is what's creating the income opportunity for investors on the back end, right?
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That's correct.
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I mean, the income opportunity on the law firm portfolio of finance can vary, but the stated industry sort of the industry norm can be anywhere from 16 to 24 percent compound.
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Wow.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And that's that's an important consideration because when you think when when you're lending to a law firm and you're thinking, wow, that's 16 to 24 percent, that's interesting.
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You have to also ask yourself you're smoothing out the income for the law firm at that rate, and the law firm can repay that.
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It's just a matter of smoothing out that income stream.
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Those law firms must be doing fairly well.
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And yes, it's not a it's not a sign of uh the firm is weak that they that they need the cash flow.
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It's just a uh uh imbalance between when the cases are heard and then when that fee is collected by the attorney.
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And that's what we do.
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That's that's what we're solving for the law firm.
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But uh it's it seems to be something which is growing.
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In fact, I believe it's growing.
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Uh it's projected to get to the to to about uh it's currently right now about 30 billion in size and projected to get in the next 10 years to about 50 billion in size.
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So the demand is really there.
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Yeah for us.
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Let's look at some of that demand.
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I I want to talk about the market right now.
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I can already hear some people that are like, wait, am I if I invest in this fund, is this fund um, you know, are they lending money to the guy on the billboard driving down the street and he's gonna there's they're funding that that that plaintiff's lawyer that I don't like, you know?
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I mean, that's that's the question.
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I'm just gonna leave it at that.
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What's the what's the answer to that?
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Well, I think it's twofold, really.
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I mean, when we're taking a look at firms, I mean, traditionally what we're looking at is we're looking at uh firms for the law firm portfolio finance, they happen to be some of those people that we're talking to, right?
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That we're lending to that you see on the billboard or the side of the bus or the station.
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Absolutely 100%.
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And and by nature of the way those firms operate, and the fact I said there's a delay in collecting the fee, that's where this is necessary for them to have.
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Yeah, I mean that that is the opportunity for the investor too, because that that plaintiff in that case, that person that's been injured, right, they're not gonna pay a fee up front.
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No, it's contingency.
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It's all contingency success fee type work.
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Well, these lawyers take on these cases, and you know, they we've all seen the right the the the marking on this, right?
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They you don't they don't get a fee and there's no and there's no fee earned by the lawyer unless the client wins.
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So that case has got to go to trial, they gotta settle the case, right?
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And so the nature of that of that the way the industry is built, which is customers aren't willing to pay up front, the lawyer needs some revenue, correct, is what's created this income opportunity for this private lending.
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Correct.
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And so whether you like it or not, I mean my answer to my own question, which I know some of you are listening, thinking this, is that's where the business opportunity is.
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Um and that's why you can why you can have that type of yield you can get on those types of loans.
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Absolutely correct.
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And and again, just to step back for a second, we just opened up by talking a little bit about the two areas in the litigation finance.
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We're talking and focusing now on law firm portfolio uh lending, uh, and as well as single case.
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Single case, I mean, by the nature of of lending to these, these types of cases, they can have a venture capital return profile anywhere from two to 10x.
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But the nature of what they do, they're usually complex commercial litigation cases.
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Okay, right?
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And we lend into that, and so that is also the element of uh of what the investor would be looking at to evaluate the merit of this investment, if it makes sense.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I see I'm my guess is like those the loan amounts need to be enough to make it worth it, whether it is that that complex commercial litigation that's that's a big deal type case, they're not set settling the those cases are not tens or hundreds of thousands of dollar cases, those are million-dollar cases, right?
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Yes.
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Or you've got the law firm portfolio, which has got the hundred cases, and there might be some million-dollar cases, some hundred thousand dollar cases, some thousand dollar cases, but but the the lending opportunity needs to be enough to make it worth your while, I presume, where you're going in lend.
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It does.
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And we've historically uh that that's a key consideration.
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It really needs to be enough to make it to make it worthwhile.
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But you have to understand, too, a lot of these firms that basically take on these accounts, their cases turn on a regular basis.
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So it's an ongoing need for this.
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So it's almost like a revolving line almost like it's a revolver.
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And so in in a sense, so it's longer-term relationships as the as the firm grows, they grow with you.
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And you're providing a uh bespoke access to capital because of the nature of what we've been talking about, the contingency element of this.
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Yeah.
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Um what are you seeing right now?
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And why why are you because you guys have had you've grown, you've been, and you're also like not new to this.
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No, right?
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You guys have experience, you've been doing this for a while.
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Um what what's happening right now, and what are you guys excited about right now in this industry?
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Well, we think a couple of things here that really excite us, but just to give you a little sense, and thanks for that, a little sense of our background.
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The firm's been around since 2013, Provide Capital.
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Our founder and CEO, Alec Shukri, has been in this business since 2003.
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So we've really seen a lot from just funding individuals now to, as it states, starting to fund into these mass tort cases to evolve and go into this where we see it now, uh uh where it's uh law firm portfolio finance.
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The elements that we really get excited about are twofold.
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It's the growing need for this, the awareness of looking at this as a true alternative, becoming an asset class, I would suggest to you.
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And then also as we sort of, as we sort of grow, it's this non-correlation which keeps coming up, right?
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Doesn't mean it's not without risk.
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Yeah.
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It just means it's not really correlated to what we see.
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The Fed says something they're gonna raise or lower interest rates, hopefully lower, but raise interest rates, not affect it.
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Stock market goes up or down, not affected.
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Yeah, right.
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So it's that element of non-correlation which people are sort of looking to to round out and complement their other existing uh alternative investment portfolios.
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Yeah.
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So walk me through like the underwriting process and like how you guys are deciding on where to lend the money.
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I presume you've learned a lot over the years.
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100%.
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And like what does that look like when you're evaluating to make these loans?
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Because you guys are the ones in your team.
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I presume there's like, you know, people with expertise even within your guys' team that do this.
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Um, how does that look?
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Because I think anybody investing in the fund like this, you guys are out sourcing these opportunities, putting the capital to work and making those decisions on the deals you're funding, the firm portfolios you're funding or not.
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Like, what are you guys looking for on that?
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What's the underwriting look like?
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Great question.
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I mean, it really comes down to whether we're looking at just the single case events or law firm portfolio finance, it really comes down to understanding it within Provided Capital, speaking just internally, we are vertically integrated.
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So we're underwriting's in-house, uh, we have attorneys on staff, paralegal's on staff, our asset management's in-house.
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Uh Alex Shukri, I say is very long-dated in terms of his experience in this space.
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We've done over 8,000 transactions, so we have a very robust data set to look at.
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So some of the characteristics you look at if you're looking at a law firm, you want to make sure that we particularly at Privati, we don't work with startups.
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So you're gonna have to have some metrics established.
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We're gonna have it have at least three plus attorneys, typically three to ten attorneys is a minimum bar we're gonna take a look at.
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The attorney's gonna have to in have in-house legal or in-house accounting, excuse me.
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You're gonna have to take a look at the law firm, not just from the firm, in terms of what has happened, what are the attorneys doing, what are their core competencies?
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You're taking a look at them personally, in terms of what they're doing personally.
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You want to make sure that how is the cadence settling?
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How are they at settling these cases, right?
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Is there concentration risk?
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It's very important, right?
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And how are you managing duration?
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And then ultimately, what is the actual strength of the underlying business itself?
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So those are all key considerations that we look at.
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We get an awful lot of inbound requests.
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We're very fortunate, our time in the market allows us.
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We get about 200 inbound inquiries a month.
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So just from attending a lot of the conferences, being in the legal space for so long, being a known.
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Uh, but again, uh, we're very picky in terms of our underwriting.
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So we basically would probably fund of all the inquiries we get, we fund about 1% of those inquiries.
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But it's uh it's growing, it's robust, and and uh you have to be careful, you have to know.
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Yeah.
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So obviously the income opportunities there, the kind of the yields we talked about earlier, that's 16 to 24 percent.
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But you want to you're gonna minimize that risk on the downside by some good underwriting here.
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Um and it seems like those are a lot of principles, no matter what the asset class is, you're gonna do.
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Um, but all right, so there is kind of a secured interest, though.
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I know like, you know, the banks aren't getting credit for it here, but in the sense that there's like a security interest on the case itself and the fee earned on the case.
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Right.
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Um, are you and this is funny?
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I the Civil Action is one of my favorite movies.
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I I even just reread the book just recently.
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John Travolta's stars in it.
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Um, and there is actually a litigation financer in it.
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I think they call him the banker, you know, in the show.
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I don't I don't know the real story of it.
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This is the movie, of course.
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Um, but it's based on a true story.
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Um, but he had the lien, he had the mortgages on the houses of the lawyers.
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They had personal lines of they had personal guarantees.
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Uh, how far do you guys go on that?
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Do you is it do you stick it, keep it at the business level or do you go just curious.
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Well, no, that's a good question.
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I mean, uh what we do at Prabhati's, we're very careful about this, right?
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Over the entirety of Prabhupada, we've been doing this.
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We're on, we're actually just uh launching our seventh fund as we speak.
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Uh, with all of this, all the underwriting, everything we're talking about, all are being careful.
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We're sub-2% lost capital over that time.
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So, what we do in terms to get recourse is we're gonna have a first-lien position on all of the receivables and cases of that firm.
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We're gonna have first-lien position on all future cases of that firm.
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And we're gonna have in a lot of cases personal guarantees of the partners.
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So we're very, very careful about underwriting, and I said, wanting to make sure you lend money, but you get your money back.
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How does the fund look?
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So that's what the fund's out doing.
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I mean, are you what fund are you in?
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You've had multiple funds in the space?
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Yes, we have.
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This is our we we this is our seventh fund.
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Okay.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:31.519
So we're currently offering our seventh fund.
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:32.000
All right.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.480
And what's the amount you're trying to raise in that?
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.039
And and just curious, like the investor opportunity for that.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.120
And what kind of dig in specifically to the fund?
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:40.240
Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:46.879
Well, we're currently right now we're looking to raise$250 to$350 million with a hard cap at$400 million.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:54.000
And really, this is uh uh what we're looking to do, and it's a five-year structure, so a drawdown structure product.
00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:54.320
Okay.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.960
So the first two years were capital raise, right?
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:05.039
We're raising capital for the fund, and then there's the last there's a recycling period in the third year, and then the harvest begins in the fourth and fifth year.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:06.480
So that's really what it looks like.
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:14.079
For clients, what an expectation would be for an investment like this, given the given the elements of what we talked about, it's a low mid-team return profile.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:15.200
Right.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:34.799
So anywhere low mid-team return profile, uncorrelated to these other asset classes, uh, very stout, uh strong underwriting cadence, understanding the 8,000 transactions that we have, our time and market, really understanding what's out there in the space and being able then to grow with the space as well.
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.880
Um that's really that's really what we're is that return profile?
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:43.920
Is that kind of based on what you've had in prior funds and kind of the projections that you've made?
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:44.400
Yeah.
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:55.599
Like um, I guess the you know, the rates you can charge, I you know, being 16 to 24, that could be a big difference on what you're getting there, I guess, is um like how did what's the how how is that?
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.279
Like, is this track record based?
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.599
Like what is the on how you get to that?
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:00.720
Because it's a great return, right?
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:08.400
Yeah, I mean the track record base, if you look at us, we have a third-party due diligence report uh done on the firm at large, and they took a look and unpacked really all of this.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.839
If you took a look at all of the vintages that we've offered, right?
00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.559
We're a little over 13% net IRR.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:14.880
Okay.
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:16.559
And a multiple on invested capital system.
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:17.920
And that's track record performance.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:19.599
Yes, that's track record performance.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:25.359
Now, the the statistical information that people look at is what is the multiple on what I made?
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.599
Like what's the multiple on the invested capital?
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:29.519
Well, with us, it's 1.51.
00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:34.400
So if you rank that in terms of characteristics, it's a very strong private credit offer right now.
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.079
Very strong in terms of the uh asset back lending space as well.
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:48.559
But I would touch upon it, this is not without the risks, and I hope we could touch upon a little bit of the what the investor needs to be aware of, what can go up or down within this space.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:56.799
First of all, if you take a look at what they're doing, they're hearing cases, you're funding these matters, making sure these cases go through.
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:01.839
Anything that would interrupt the calendar of the court would be an impact.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.359
And we experienced that.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.519
COVID, yeah.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:12.319
COVID really impacted this in terms of in terms of extension of these cases.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.799
So COVID stopped these for about two years.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.480
Yeah, nobody could go to trial.
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:22.160
I mean, I think in a lot of those cases, that's your ultimate tool of negotiation is a trial date.
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.680
And if you couldn't get a trial date, you're cooked.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.400
You're cooked.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:31.920
So what that does, what that does to a fund is that creates what's known as an extension risk, right?
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:36.079
And we've had that and we've experienced that, so we know what that looks and feels like.
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:43.519
So instead of getting uh instead of getting a 13%, you can go down to get a 10-11%, just due to the fact of the time.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.000
Yep.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:53.119
Another aspect that you'd want to take a look at, and we've had this experience, is we've financed over 250 law firms in our history, and we've had very good experience.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:58.799
In fact, a lot of these law firms, we've seen them grow, they're repeat clients of our very good, strong.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:00.720
We look at them, view them as partners.
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:07.839
Time to time, you may get an attorney who is less than uh wanting to pay you back.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.680
It's never really a question of ability to pay, it's willingness to pay.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:17.279
And in all of these cases, we've had to deal with this only four times.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:17.599
Yeah.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.319
But it's consuming, it takes a lot of your time.
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:22.640
So we're very prepared when that happens.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.160
We simply don't write it off.
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:24.400
Yeah.
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:30.319
We go after and put those uh uh recuperation methods, uh litigation.
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:32.799
Recuperation methods, yeah.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.839
Right, right.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.559
To make sure the investors, to make sure we're getting paid back.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:52.319
And so when I say loss of capital, it's not permanent loss of capital, it's just basically renegotiating out uh when uh when that attorney and we've taken tur these few attorneys, we've taken them to task and and and and and had our cases and and uh sued them, right?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.920
And and we haven't lost a case.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:54.640
Yeah.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.559
Um let's go through what this does look like to invest.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:08.799
You hit on some of the risk factors there, the the the court system, anything that kind of disrupts that and delays that that can cause it, it will eat into your returns.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.119
You know, you nobody bats a thousand, you're gonna have some of the lawyers that go bad.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:18.079
This is just like, you know, the multifamily deal with the tenants you got to evict, right?
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:19.119
It's it's a numbers game.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.119
You got you have more winners than losers, and you you your your numbers still work out well.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:25.039
Um anything else on the risk side?
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.880
I kind of want to get to some of the documents here and what it what it looks like, but that you'd want to highlight.
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.480
Yeah, I think you also have to be cognizant of regulatory risk, right?
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:42.240
There are a few states out there right now that maybe have some regulatory issues around the nature of litigation finance or uh broadly speaking, and then you need to be able to adapt to what the regulatory environment looks like.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:47.680
We're not we're not simply looking just within Arizona or the Southwest.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.599
We're we're have a national footprint.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:50.000
Okay.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:50.319
Right.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.680
So we're able to adapt to whatever regulatory situation comes up.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.960
We have that ability.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.920
Um, so that's another thing I think investors need to be looking at.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.039
Cool.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.599
Um All right, let's dig into what this looks like.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.599
I mean, what are the fund minimums?
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:08.880
Um, and what's that doc that process when someone's like, I don't want to learn more about litigation finance?
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.799
This sounds like an interesting asset class.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.519
Um, I my guess is most people be new to it.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:20.319
I mean, there are other funds out there, um, but uh what's that process look to get educated on this?
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:24.559
And also what does that document and investment process look like for new investors?
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:25.279
Certainly.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:32.000
Well, we have uh uh when people engage us, they really want to get educated, they want to come in, and that's sort of the first engagement we talk to them.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:43.279
I typically talk to them, we have a couple of other folks on our team, we basically educate them in terms of what they're trying to accomplish, talk a little bit about the space, educate them, talk about what we do, uh, and and then and then engage them.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:58.720
If they want to look further at that, then basically we would have them sign an NDA and then we'd open up our data room to that, and then really have we have a lot of detailed information, uh summaries and and uh the the DDQs you might expect uh uh for investors to have.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:10.240
We really have a very robust uh data room that we put together for investors so we can get them comfortable in terms of having enough information where they can really are in a situation where they can make a decision now.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:14.720
In terms of the fund minimums and how that works, currently right now we have a million dollar minimum.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.799
However, we have GP discretion on that.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.880
So people can come in to uh with what we do at about$250,000.
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:31.680
Um and then we are also um have that ability uh in terms of executing in terms of a lot of what we can through through DocuSign.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:39.519
And certainly uh we want to encourage folks to to utilize your services as well in terms of where people come in to us to get to know us.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:40.160
Yeah.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:53.200
So and I think our as many of you know with your self-directed IRA, if you know, you're listening to a lot of directed directed IRA resources or through through my channel is you know, our role is just to process transactions.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:57.200
Your job is to find the investments, conduct your own due diligence, of course.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:06.319
Um, we don't endorse any investments or or like, you know, uh we're not giving invest telling you what to invest in or what not to, but we want to give a lot of education about what you can do.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:11.759
And that's why I want to have Chris in here um and Pravati talk about this because it's an interesting asset class.
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:21.440
I think a lot of people talk about the riches are in the niches, and and sometimes you find these opportunities that are super interesting and compelling, and they can be great income opportunities.
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:33.839
And as I talked to Alex and we met, I was like, man, I know you guys typically raise from institutional investors or it's million-dollar checks, but what about the individual that wants to get their head around this?
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.839
Um, they need to be accredited, correct?
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.680
But they don't have to be a qualified purchaser.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:40.400
Well, we accept both, but actually you can be accredited.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:54.480
Okay, so if you're at least accredited, qualified, you have to have five million of investable assets, but um accredited because 200,000 net worth or sorry, 200,000 annual income single, 300,000 married, um, or uh a million dollars net worth not excluding your home, either one.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.119
I think a lot of people fall into that, of course, yes nowadays.
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:05.839
So um, but they could be eligible to invest in this and the minimums discretion you guys go down to 250 for certain individuals.
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:06.400
Certainly.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.720
Yeah, we have that discretion in terms of what we see fit in terms of uh our minimums.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:11.519
Okay.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.440
Um, where can people learn more?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:18.640
Is there a site or anywhere I should send them to just learn more about you or where they could reach out to contact you guys?
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:24.720
Certainly, you can reach out to me uh directly, uh Chris at ProvideCapital.com.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.000
You can visit our website, ProvideCapital.com.
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.039
Uh you certainly could reach out to me directly if you'd like.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:32.400
Give me a phone number if you'd like.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:32.880
Yeah, dude.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.839
Like I like it old school.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.599
We'll but we'll put this all in the description below.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.039
But just for anybody listening on the podcast, driving down the side of the road, you know, just know it's down in the description.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:41.680
Certainly.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:42.880
Throw the number out, though.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:46.720
You can reach me 623-521-7343.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.160
Does that ring directly to you, Chris?
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:49.039
It goes directly to me.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:49.680
I love it.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:50.000
Okay.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:50.400
Wow.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.000
You guys you got the direct number.
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:52.720
I like it.
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:58.240
Um, well, thanks so much for coming in to talk about litigation finance today and what you guys are up to at Provati.
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:00.079
Um, we'll have the slides.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.359
We did actually have some slides we were referencing through here.
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:13.119
Um, they'll be in the descriptions below, as well as some um links, emails, and direct phone numbers for Chris and Provati where you can reach out to learn more about them.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:17.839
And remember, our Alt Asset Summit is coming up October 22nd and 23rd.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.799
That'll be in Costa Mesa, California.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:22.400
Uh, please get signed up for that.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:23.200
We'd love to see you there.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.400
There's always a few hundred attendees there, a few hundred on the live stream.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.920
We're gonna have two days of learning about alternative assets.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.759
So get to altassetsummit.com.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.759
We'd love to see you guys there as well.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.960
And make sure you are subscribed to the newsletter so you get updates on this.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:40.880
You know what's going on at directed IRA.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:42.640
You can get that at directedira.com.
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:43.680
We will see you next time.
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.160
Until then, stay calm, self direct on.