Inside the World of Górecki: Jarred Dunn & Anna Gorecka, Two Pianos, One Vision

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Thank you. Welcome back to another episode of
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the PianoPod, everyone. Today, I am beyond thrilled
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to welcome two extraordinary guests, Jared Dunn,
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an internationally acclaimed pianist, researcher,
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and champion of Henrik Mikolaj Goretzki's piano
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works, and Anna Goretzka, a renowned concert
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pianist, professor, and the daughter of Goretzki
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himself. Goretzki's music has held a special
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place in my heart for over two decades. i first
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encountered his symphony number three more than
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twenty years ago while visiting a friend's home
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she introduced me to this hauntingly beautiful
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piece the moment i heard the music i was completely
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struck i had never heard anything like it before
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the raw emotion and simplicity the weight of
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the soundscape it was a revelation And now, fast
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forward to today, I have the privilege of introducing
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you to a lesser -known but deeply moving side
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of Goretzky's music, his piano works. In this
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episode, we will explore the legacy of Henrik
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McCoy Goretzky beyond Symphony No. 3, Anna's
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personal memories of her father, his creative
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process, his philosophy of music, and what he
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was like as a person. jared's journey how moving
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from north america to poland changed his artistry
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and deepened his connection to goretzky's music
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the creation of their new album goretzky's world
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of piano featuring a world premiere recording
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of an unpublished goretzky's piano works the
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importance of intercultural collaboration in
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discovering new music Henrik Goretzky is widely
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known for his third symphony, but his piano works
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remain largely undiscovered by the mainstream
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audience. So today we are here to learn more
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about his vast musical contributions and legacy.
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But before we dive in, I want to take a moment
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to share something important with you. Creating
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this podcast, curating meaningful conversations,
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and producing high quality content and growing
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our reach takes an incredible amount of time
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and resources. If you have been enjoying these
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episodes and believe in the mission of the Pianopod,
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I invite you to support this work by becoming
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a paid subscriber on Substack at the pianopod
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.substack .com. Your support helps sustain and
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grow this platform, making it possible for us
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to continue highlighting diverse voices, exploring
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creative journeys, and expanding the conversation
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around classical and genre -crossing music. Even
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a small contribution goes a long way. This episode
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is truly a special one. So, please sit back,
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immerse yourself in the world of Goretzky, and
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join me in welcoming... Jared Dunn and Anna Goretzka
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to the PianoPod. Please enjoy the show. You are
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listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the
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brightest minds in the industry about how they
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are bringing the piano into the future and thriving
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in a complex, ever -evolving world. Welcome to
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the PianoPod, Jared and Anna. It's such a pleasure
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to have you on the show. today. Thank you. Thank
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you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you for
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being here. So where are you joining us from
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today, Jared, first? I'm in Montreal at home.
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And Anna? I'm in Katowice at home, yes. Oh, wow.
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Beautiful. So far away. Far away, but you see,
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we can get together like this. It's just so,
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it always amazes me. But thank you for being
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here. So, Jared, we've been talking about this
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interview since last fall and now it's finally
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happening. I'm so excited to have this conversation
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with you both. And Anna, your father, Henrik
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Goretzky's music has touched so many lives. And
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then at the beginning of this episode, I shared
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my personal connection to his, particularly Symphony
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No. 3, a piece that left a profound impression
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on me when I first heard it. Decades ago, actually.
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And then when, yes, when Jared and I started
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planning this episode and I discovered that you
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would be joining us today as well. And then,
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so, you know, I mean, when I heard that you are
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the. Maestro Gretzky's daughter was like, oh,
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my God. Yeah, really, it's true. So having the
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chance to hear your personal story, insights
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and experiences makes this conversation incredibly
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special. So as our listeners tune in, by the
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time this episode goes out, they are stepping
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into something extraordinary, which is your collaboration.
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New album, Gretzky's World of Piano is officially
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out, right? Yep. Congratulations. Yes. Now, it
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means so much that you chose the piano part to
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share this news and talk about this album. So
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I can't wait to hear all about it. So before
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we dive into the details, give us a glimpse inside
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this project. What inspired it? And what journey
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do you hope to take listeners on through this
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music? Jared, would you like to start first?
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Sure. Same story as you, Yukimi. The first time
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I heard the third symphony, I was overwhelmed.
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And the first time I heard the piano concerto,
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which was Anna's recording, and the sonata, which
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I believe was also Anna's recording. I mean,
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I knew about this music from a young age. I feel
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really lucky to have known about it. And I wanted
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people, when I planned this album, I wanted people
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to have that same experience of hearing it if
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it's for the first time. from pianists who have
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really studied it carefully and know very much
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what's at the heart of each score, because the
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piano music is on the periphery of Goretzky's
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music. We have the big symphonies, choral works
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and chamber music. But the piano music is still
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really beautiful and really worth giving attention
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to. And actually, I think it was my first experience
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hearing Goretzky was the concerto. The piano
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concerto was first, which is not everybody's
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experience. But. Therefore, when I met Anna in
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person, I was kind of starstruck the first time
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and I was really nervous. I have the same, starstruck
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right now. Of course, yeah, because I know she'll
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probably hate that I'm saying this. So I'm going
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to skip over that point. But when we met, we
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formed really quickly a connection through, I
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think it was Chopin ballads and the Liszt Sonata
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I was playing for her. Yeah, it was Liszt Sonata,
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the first Liszt Sonata. And I remember thinking,
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I remember the details of that first lesson,
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which is more than 10 years ago now. And it made
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such an impression on me. It was the same like
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when I heard her recording. And this is what
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distinguished it for me. And I hope the listeners
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feel when they hear our album, it feels like
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you're hearing a live concert. It does not feel
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like a doctored recording. And the goal in playing
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it is to make sure the impression of giving a
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concert is maintained. That's what I love so
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much about recordings. I don't like so much editing.
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It's fine. Everybody at some point has to make
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an album with edits, but I vastly prefer just
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playing live and letting people hear the raw,
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unedited music. So back to the goal of the album.
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It grew out of my doctoral research, and then
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I got a huge grant to do it thanks to the Canadian
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Arts Council. So I approached Anna. And I thought,
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gee, she's done this so many times, so much Goretzky,
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why is she going to want to do another Goretzky
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album? And to my surprise and delight, she agreed
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almost before I could finish the sentence. Yes,
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we can play together. It was amazing. So the
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spirit of the cooperation has always been one
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of musical friendship and admiration for what
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music really is. So I consider myself very, very
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lucky. Wonderful. Anna, would you like to add
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anything? Yes, I remember our first lesson very
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well. I must say I was really impressed by his
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determination to change the whole life and move
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to Poland. I was surprised because, you know,
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I don't think here is something really worth
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ruining everything else. Yeah, but I was extremely
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happy because I felt during these lessons in
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Warsaw it was a masterpiece. I felt that we can
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do something together, something nice, and that
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he's very open -minded, and he's very gifted,
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and he would be a perfect student. So that happened,
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and we had several nice years, and Jared's graduation
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was something really big, and he played really
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big repertoire, and really it was fun. Thank
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you, Jared. Of course. Wow. So, you know, you
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guys have this special bond as as what it started
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as a teacher student relationship. And now you
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guys collaborate together. And that's something
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that I really want to dig into later in the episode.
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But now let's keep this conversation going with
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your father, Anna Henrik. Gretzky, Mr. Gretzky.
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So I'd love for you both to introduce us to him.
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Maybe, you know, for some listeners, they may
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have not yet discovered his wonderful, amazing
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music. So not just as a composer, but as an artist
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with a unique musical voice. Anna, would you
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like to start? Yes. Thank you. It's very difficult
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for me because, you know, I think most people
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start with third symphony and I think it's a
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perfect way of getting closer to his music, of
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course, because the piece is extremely important
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and very touching and, you know, the basic thing,
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I think. But I would recommend also Second Symphony.
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For people who already love number three and
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want to have something more, I really strongly
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recommend Second Symphony, which for me is maybe
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his absolutely best piece. So, yeah, we are talking
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about piano music, and piano music is just a
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small percentage of his whole work. He was fascinated
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by the piano itself in his early years, and he
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dreamed about being a pianist, so he practiced
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a lot. There were, of course, some difficulties
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because of the family situation and his mother
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died and so on and so on and so on. We don't
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have to talk a lot about this now. But when he
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started his normal education, he started with
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the piano. And that was his first love. So he
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wrote a lot, a lot of virtuosic, big piano pieces
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in his early years. And all these juveniles are,
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of course, not published. But there is a big
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pile of music. containing for example the four
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big piano concerto very virtuosic one of course
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it's far from his major style but it's extremely
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important series of preludes different program
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pieces yeah and this very big piano concerto
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so maybe one day throughout his life i think
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he considered the piano to be the closest instrument.
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And he always composed by the piano. He had a
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lot of favorite pianists, for example, Światosław
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Richter or Mata Hrycz. Yeah, he was very fond
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of them. He watched all Chopin piano competitions
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in Warsaw. Every five years he was, yeah, three
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weeks only with Chopin. He played the piano himself
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quite well. So I remember him playing Chopin,
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Mazurkas, Szymanowski, Mazurkas, a lot of Mozart,
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a lot of Bach, really. So piano was quite, quite
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important, very important. And I think in his
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piano pieces, we can find the same tendencies,
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let's say, let's say it like this, the same way
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of shaping the form as in orchestral works. So
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I think there is the same tendency to use very
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distinct, sometimes even maybe extreme means
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to express himself. Very similar way of building
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the very expressive whole block of music, very
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dense. full of tension and emotions so i think
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it's quite close piano music to the rest thank
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you for sharing jared would you like to add anything
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i definitely agree with that tension and emotion
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and this blocks of music when it comes to things
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like piano sonata and toccata this is the first
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repertoire that comes to my mind But I loved
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researching all of this music for the purpose
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of the book that I've written because these stories
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now coming from Anna are things that I've heard
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many times and I feel closer to the repertoire
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because of it. And when I hear them told, I think
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it really makes a difference to the interpreter
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to know that information. Some composers, you
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don't want to know too much about their personal
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life. It helps you to just look at the music.
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And someone like Gretzky, you need to know where
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he was coming from. I think that's a different
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case. You can play it, I think. I'm not an extremist.
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You can play it if you don't know these things.
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But it certainly helped me to learn from a direct
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source who knew him and understood how he worked
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and understood what he was aiming for in the
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music. And I think it gets us closer to understanding
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this music when we look at the enormous mass
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that he wrote for orchestra, chamber music and
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choirs. And then see that this smaller portion
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of piano music is really very tightly related
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to it. Really? Yeah. And you are also, yeah,
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you mentioned that you're publishing the book
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very soon. And then that probably complements
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the album you just released, right? I think it's
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kind of a funny coincidence that they both happened
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in the same year. I haven't been. I haven't been
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bored for the last few years. I haven't had a
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lot of extra time on my hands. Writing a book
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and planning and recording an album of this scope
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and size has been a lot of work in a very short
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time. But I'm lucky that they're coming out in
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the same two -month period. I think the book
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will be out middle of the summer, and the album
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has just come out a few weeks ago. So it's a
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nice pairing. Yeah, that's just really incredible,
00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:08.109
and I would love to read it. Yeah. Since especially
00:17:08.109 --> 00:17:10.309
you mentioned that knowing the person, knowing
00:17:10.309 --> 00:17:13.049
the composer himself helps us understand his
00:17:13.049 --> 00:17:16.109
music better. Because Anna also wrote a book,
00:17:16.150 --> 00:17:18.430
but it's only it's in Polish. It's not been translated.
00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:21.190
So my book decided I decided to dig into that
00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:23.769
and translate the important conversation she
00:17:23.769 --> 00:17:26.670
had with her father to explain his points of
00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:30.079
view about things that. we can analyze it from
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.019
looking outside of the music but Anna really
00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:33.980
takes you into the middle of it to the core of
00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.460
what's there and learning Polish as well certainly
00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:39.279
helped because I think Gretzky really deeply
00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.500
identified with his Polish nationality with Catholicism
00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:49.099
with a state of the birthplace being near Katowice
00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:51.480
and being rooted in Silesia was a big part of
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:57.500
him wow so how well Do you understand Polish,
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.359
Jared, by now? I'm going to let Anna answer this.
00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:05.720
I can say he speaks Polish really well. We can
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.500
communicate in Polish easily. So that's very
00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:12.400
great. Because Polish is one of the most terrible
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:17.650
languages to learn. I hear that the Polish is
00:18:17.650 --> 00:18:19.349
one of the most difficult languages. Yes, like
00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:22.390
Chinese, something like Chinese. Congratulations,
00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:28.130
Jared. It helps when I moved to Katowice, right?
00:18:28.250 --> 00:18:30.609
I asked Anna, I remember when she invited me
00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:33.210
to her class, I asked her, is there some in English?
00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:35.630
Because I don't speak Polish, some form of English
00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:38.650
studies. And there was an English program at
00:18:38.650 --> 00:18:41.069
the time where everyone spoke English. But several
00:18:41.069 --> 00:18:44.019
of the... professors i also wanted to work with
00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:47.420
in chamber music in other forms of collaboration
00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:51.400
primarily only spoke polish so for about two
00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.619
of the five years there it was just smile and
00:18:53.619 --> 00:18:56.079
nod and when you catch on to a couple of verbs
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.740
that mean listen carefully you play bad then
00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:01.940
you understand what they're saying a little bit
00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:05.539
um and But after a while, I think just being
00:19:05.539 --> 00:19:08.319
there all the time and operating there in life
00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.460
as well, buying groceries, going to libraries,
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:13.460
going to athletic stuff, getting sick and needing
00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:15.539
a doctor. You can't always rely on there being
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:18.059
an English speaker there. So I just determined
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:20.660
I've got to learn this. Plus, my first teacher
00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:22.640
or one of my first teachers in pre -college,
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.119
her name was also Anna, came from Warsaw and
00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.519
immigrated to Canada during the communist time.
00:19:28.900 --> 00:19:32.380
And I remember her using. Words in Polish sometimes,
00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.180
usually swear words when I played, she didn't
00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:38.460
like it. So I feel like this culture was always
00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:40.859
there since my early teens, you know, and so
00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:42.960
coming to Poland felt more like a homecoming
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.920
in some ways, because I'd always wondered what
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.180
it would be like to really live there. Which,
00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:50.940
it makes a huge difference, not only in Gretzky,
00:19:50.980 --> 00:19:54.680
but also Chopin, Szymanowski, and there's no,
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.940
it's so much easier to interpret them in Polish,
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:02.559
I find. I just feel that much more. Now, Anna,
00:20:02.619 --> 00:20:05.619
what is it about, you know, Maestro Goretzky's
00:20:05.619 --> 00:20:08.440
music that really resonates so profoundly to
00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.240
listeners? Like whether it is his avant -garde
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.180
experimental chamber, you know, works to deeply
00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:20.759
spiritual chorale compositions and or evocative
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.720
piano works, right? And his music demands our
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:26.700
full attention. Like I have to stop from whatever
00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:30.130
I'm doing. in order for me to listen to just
00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:32.690
by talking just gives me chills about his music
00:20:32.690 --> 00:20:35.690
so yeah what is in your view gives his music
00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:40.890
this undeniable impact wow another very difficult
00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:44.549
question i know i'm known for it i'm famous for
00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:51.809
it sorry i think there are several things about
00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:58.220
it that we can define and a lot of things that
00:20:58.220 --> 00:21:02.420
are absolutely beyond any statements or definitions.
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:08.779
So, yeah, I think it's a combination of several
00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:14.619
important factors, like maybe from a psychological
00:21:14.619 --> 00:21:20.720
point of view, it's something like... Yeah, maybe
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:25.900
it's about just feeling and understanding human
00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:32.380
feelings, the deepest ones, the most intense,
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:42.140
and needs, human needs and hopes, maybe some
00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:47.140
hopeless states too. And from the other artistic
00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:52.500
side, maybe it's the ability to, how to say it,
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:58.319
to convey important, profound content into a
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:03.279
strong, very bold form. Maybe this combination,
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.460
yeah. Strong, true feelings, just true feelings.
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.460
True feelings and a perfect form. And if you
00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:14.680
combine these two things, maybe there is a chance.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:20.799
that would touch people somehow. So he was always
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:26.720
extremely careful while preparing the work. So
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.799
before composing, there was a long process of
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:36.099
collecting sources, of making sketches, of reading
00:22:36.099 --> 00:22:42.480
books. Yeah, so sometimes it would last for years
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:48.769
even. When all that stuff was completed, then
00:22:48.769 --> 00:22:54.049
he started the real work. So he was really careful
00:22:54.049 --> 00:22:59.369
and he was working hard, really, to have all
00:22:59.369 --> 00:23:05.450
these components well combined. I wouldn't like
00:23:05.450 --> 00:23:10.869
to use the word measured, but they had to fit
00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:16.609
one to another. Yeah, there is a mixture of importance,
00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:21.369
of tradition, of courage, of speaking with one's
00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:25.829
own voice. So, yeah, a mixture of different things.
00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:29.170
When you talk about it, the word I get in my
00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:32.569
mind is like, it's very intentional. Yes, it
00:23:32.569 --> 00:23:34.490
is. With every, like the deepest intention. I
00:23:34.490 --> 00:23:36.190
get that feeling when I play, especially the
00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:37.789
concerto, it feels so... There's nothing like
00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:41.230
an accident or something that just happened.
00:23:42.509 --> 00:23:47.349
But there is a lot of intuition, too. So it's
00:23:47.349 --> 00:23:52.089
absolutely not calculated. It's not invented.
00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:56.430
It's not artificial. Absolutely not. So it's
00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.390
like the music, I think it's true. Now, the more
00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:01.430
I've played it and now we have recorded it, it
00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:04.670
feels like a real reflection of the intuition
00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:07.690
of the composer. And he identified very carefully
00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:10.390
what he wanted to say and what the real message
00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.339
was. And it worked. really tirelessly to figure
00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:17.359
out exactly how to write it down. Yeah, so here
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:22.819
there was a deep conviction that one must know
00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:27.859
their, how to say it, craft? Is there a word
00:24:27.859 --> 00:24:31.000
like this? Craft, yeah? So the work you do, you
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.990
must know very well. Yes. Just do your job properly.
00:24:36.450 --> 00:24:40.309
So you can't pretend. You can't just build an
00:24:40.309 --> 00:24:46.190
empty facade. It can be maybe very attractive,
00:24:46.349 --> 00:24:51.809
but it has no meaning and no background. So music
00:24:51.809 --> 00:24:57.250
needs knowledge and music needs skills, really
00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:00.589
deep skills and craft and strong constructions.
00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:03.559
And if you have all this, and you understand
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:10.359
what's inside a human being so maybe maybe it
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.039
would work yeah that's amazing because it's so
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:15.819
i just thought of it as you were talking anna
00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:19.119
that when i played the sonata even the opening
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:21.910
just these octaves Well, not really octaves,
00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:24.069
but there's three octaves span for just these
00:25:24.069 --> 00:25:26.730
unisons. You can feel the beginning, middle and
00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:29.269
end of every single note, even though it goes
00:25:29.269 --> 00:25:32.029
by really quickly. It's a simple structure. It's
00:25:32.029 --> 00:25:35.829
just one line. But there is something about every
00:25:35.829 --> 00:25:37.990
note that feels very real when it's happening,
00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.150
even at a fast speed. And I remember when I finished
00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:43.269
it, I texted you from the studio. My head is
00:25:43.269 --> 00:25:45.990
ringing after recording this sonata. Like my
00:25:45.990 --> 00:25:48.509
ears are ringing. And you said, yeah, brain also
00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:50.829
is ringing after playing. I think it's because...
00:25:50.829 --> 00:25:54.970
Yes, I experienced the same, yes. Really? Can
00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:57.970
you tell me, elaborate on that ringing part?
00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:02.269
Well, first of all, just the piano is vibrating
00:26:02.269 --> 00:26:05.170
so much from the amount of notes written in a
00:26:05.170 --> 00:26:07.930
very wide texture, highest soprano, lowest bass,
00:26:08.089 --> 00:26:12.849
or very close to lowest, and constant chord clusters
00:26:12.849 --> 00:26:17.529
that are written with... Forte times five. And
00:26:17.529 --> 00:26:20.990
then crescendo to even louder. And I remember
00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:23.490
once in the lesson I asked Ana, why did you write
00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:26.750
this? And how are you supposed to play it? And
00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:30.049
Ana, do you remember what you said? I don't remember.
00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:34.730
Wishful thinking. Try to go from extremely loud,
00:26:34.849 --> 00:26:37.049
like the loudest you're at, to even louder, to
00:26:37.049 --> 00:26:41.680
just at the limit. But on a stage, I mean, I've
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.180
played the sonata live now probably 20, 30 times,
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.819
and now I recorded it. You feel this energy on
00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:50.180
the stage. You feel like I need the piano to
00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:52.759
be six feet longer, and then I can do this crescendo.
00:26:53.380 --> 00:26:57.519
This is real. That's true. I'm also curious,
00:26:57.579 --> 00:27:01.220
now that, Anna, you're here, what was it like,
00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:05.000
Maestro Goretzky -like as a person and father?
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:10.440
If I'm not wrong, He taught you first music lesson,
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.000
no? No, he was never my teacher. Oh, really?
00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:21.019
Okay. No, never ever. Yeah, but my first teacher
00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:27.319
was a very famous Polish pianist and educator.
00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:30.960
It was Professor Wanda Chmielowska. And for a
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.920
long time, she was head of piano department in
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.640
Katowice. And my mother studied with her. So
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.359
that was a very natural way when I was born and
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.759
when I grew up. When I was, let's say, four,
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.519
I think, she invited me and started lessons.
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:54.700
So it was just a private contact. We had private
00:27:54.700 --> 00:28:00.440
lessons for several years. And later, yeah, but
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.960
my father was never my teacher. He was really
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:09.109
involved. in our lives mine and my brother's
00:28:09.109 --> 00:28:13.710
life he was a present father happily happily
00:28:13.710 --> 00:28:17.069
he was really uh he was interested in what we
00:28:17.069 --> 00:28:22.390
were doing and he was also very demanding and
00:28:22.390 --> 00:28:28.490
but i think it was uh that was a blessing because
00:28:28.490 --> 00:28:32.369
you know he didn't accept wasting time on nonsense
00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:38.240
uh we had to work hard of course we had to make
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.799
progress but there was there was nothing like
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.500
a sick ambition for example that you have to
00:28:44.500 --> 00:28:46.839
win the competition or you have to win this I
00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:51.519
never ever he was never pushing us towards a
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:57.920
success let's say so it was just about development
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:03.319
about learning about gaining experience so I
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.529
think it was very healthy really And he was happy
00:29:06.529 --> 00:29:10.930
with all these passions, our passions, outside
00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:15.569
of music. So I was very interested in literature,
00:29:15.789 --> 00:29:18.670
and I wrote a lot, and he was very happy about
00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:26.710
this. He read everything. So I think I had a
00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:30.829
healthy childhood. Yeah, but he was never my
00:29:30.829 --> 00:29:33.970
piano teacher. My mother was for a short time.
00:29:34.049 --> 00:29:37.410
Yes, she's a pianist. Your family has such a
00:29:37.410 --> 00:29:43.630
huge legacy of lineage of musicians, right? Yes,
00:29:44.049 --> 00:29:50.769
my children are the third generation now. And
00:29:50.769 --> 00:29:54.630
I can say I'm glad that he was so demanding and
00:29:54.630 --> 00:29:57.339
wanting you to develop because... I can speak
00:29:57.339 --> 00:29:59.279
now as someone who studied with Anna for five
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.000
years. She is the same. Every lesson you feel,
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.359
it must be better. It must be honestly better.
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:08.980
And there was also no sense of sick ambition
00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:12.700
or pushing toward, at least in my case, toward
00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:14.859
a million big competitions. And if you don't
00:30:14.859 --> 00:30:18.119
win, the teacher will lose respect for you or
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.619
stop pushing you in the direction that you should
00:30:20.619 --> 00:30:23.140
be going in. And I did a lot of competitions
00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:24.740
when I was studying with Anna, but they were
00:30:24.740 --> 00:30:26.819
all my idea. And she said, OK, if you want to
00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:30.759
do it, let's do it. And I feel very, very lucky
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.099
that I had that five year period because she
00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:36.579
also every lesson. I remember a lot of details
00:30:36.579 --> 00:30:40.539
written on my scores and spoken, but none of
00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:42.559
them were about anything but just being with
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:44.799
music, practicing music carefully, listening
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.440
carefully, being sensible in how you work on
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.859
music, not going to the practice room and just
00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:51.559
playing through your repertoire and then stopping
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:53.619
a little bit over a couple of problem spots.
00:30:54.890 --> 00:30:58.190
I remember a lesson in which I played a bunch
00:30:58.190 --> 00:31:00.369
of Rachmaninoff preludes and she just said okay
00:31:00.369 --> 00:31:03.009
day of honesty you need to practice much slower
00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:05.430
that is it and then she just listened to me play
00:31:05.430 --> 00:31:08.710
slowly and it was a really I'll never forget
00:31:08.710 --> 00:31:11.369
this lesson because I had to demonstrate just
00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:14.170
how many possible ways I could play slowly and
00:31:14.170 --> 00:31:16.869
still be deeply connected to the root of Rachmaninoff
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.579
and there was no discussion about how to play
00:31:19.579 --> 00:31:22.500
one of them faster or one of them louder or one
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.480
of them more so that a jury will like it at the
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.980
competition but it was just being in music and
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:31.740
i got the feeling and as you were talking that
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.059
this is something connected to also the way your
00:31:34.059 --> 00:31:36.640
father heard music and experienced it because
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.200
there was never this outside pressure coming
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.519
into lessons it was always just about the music
00:31:42.349 --> 00:31:46.910
Thank you. Thank you. I'm very happy to hear
00:31:46.910 --> 00:31:52.730
this. But I must say that Jared was always, yeah,
00:31:52.829 --> 00:31:55.630
to say that he was always well prepared, that's
00:31:55.630 --> 00:32:00.769
nothing. He was really absolutely conscious of
00:32:00.769 --> 00:32:03.329
everything he wanted to do. And he knew everything
00:32:03.329 --> 00:32:06.829
about the composer, about the style, about really,
00:32:07.049 --> 00:32:10.970
yes, yes. Thanks. So I remember these preludes.
00:32:11.369 --> 00:32:13.869
Yeah, you played them really. Yeah, I remember
00:32:13.869 --> 00:32:18.730
this recital at the end of the year. And this
00:32:18.730 --> 00:32:21.789
was really, really great. Yeah. So I was happy
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:25.130
to have you as a student. This is the perfect
00:32:25.130 --> 00:32:27.109
situation. Yeah. You see how many people can
00:32:27.109 --> 00:32:29.109
say looking back after knowing a teacher for
00:32:29.109 --> 00:32:32.390
that long. I've known Anna now since 2013. And
00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:36.710
we remember we remember such details like it
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:39.700
must have something really worked. Yeah. And
00:32:39.700 --> 00:32:42.140
also, you know, getting compliments from your
00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:45.359
teacher. This is the place to do it. Otherwise,
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.000
during the lesson, you don't hear it. That is
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.680
something that is very rare, actually. I do not
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:59.740
remember a bunch of fake, nice words. But I remember
00:32:59.740 --> 00:33:02.900
five years of solid work. And when it was good
00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:05.440
at the very end, the result is good. Of course,
00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:08.559
Anna would say. but there was in the lesson there
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:13.440
was none of this um oh so fantastically talented
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.019
great let's go to the next piece it was if it's
00:33:16.019 --> 00:33:19.259
good let's work harder and i always it's funny
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:21.759
not a series of five years worth of compliments
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.440
but a series of five years worth of criticism
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:27.799
and input and suggestion and engagement with
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.460
the real art of playing um and yet i never felt
00:33:31.460 --> 00:33:34.509
disrespected or put down by the It was just objectively,
00:33:34.769 --> 00:33:36.869
this is what we do next. This is where you take
00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:38.569
a Brahms concerto. This is what you do with a
00:33:38.569 --> 00:33:40.549
Mozart concerto. Here's how you practice Rachmaninoff.
00:33:41.589 --> 00:33:45.269
And I loved that element of it because I felt
00:33:45.269 --> 00:33:49.210
Anna must be more on fire for this music, even
00:33:49.210 --> 00:33:50.849
though she has a bunch of other students to deal
00:33:50.849 --> 00:33:52.670
with and concerts. She goes to Asia every year
00:33:52.670 --> 00:33:54.710
a couple of times and has a million other things
00:33:54.710 --> 00:33:58.589
to do. And in my lesson, she's all there with
00:33:58.589 --> 00:34:01.299
the music, too. and it was crazy there were moments
00:34:01.299 --> 00:34:04.559
where she just said one simple thing like this
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.559
is the leading line of the whole piece and it
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.219
was like a little thread that went for a whole
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:10.519
concerto and my whole mind would be on fire for
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:14.940
the next hour um and i absolutely i think that
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:17.079
this is the right way actually of teaching because
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.659
it keeps you engaged so deeply in the music that's
00:34:19.659 --> 00:34:56.099
how you know you're studying with a master As
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:58.780
his daughter, do you feel a sense of duty to
00:34:58.780 --> 00:35:01.920
continue his legacy in some way? And do you see
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.579
your role in that sense? Yes, of course. I think
00:35:06.579 --> 00:35:13.679
my job would be maybe bringing his music as close
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:18.079
to the listeners as possible. Of course, nowadays
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:25.900
it's not easy because... So -called new music,
00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:30.260
even if it's written 60, 70 years ago or even
00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:38.079
100 years ago, people are... Often people are
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:43.719
just against it. And if there is a famous name,
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.039
if there is a festival, if there is a special
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:53.360
occasion, okay, new music is tolerated. But yeah.
00:35:54.250 --> 00:36:01.710
that's a sad truth but um if we don't have a
00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:06.170
lot of possibilities to to play music like this
00:36:06.170 --> 00:36:11.869
so every uh every occasion like this one jared
00:36:11.869 --> 00:36:17.789
your your idea of recording this or or some some
00:36:17.789 --> 00:36:22.590
strange different places we can play That's a
00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:27.230
blessing, of course. And what can I do? I think
00:36:27.230 --> 00:36:34.809
my greatest dream was to prepare his unpublished
00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:40.550
pieces and to prepare them to be printed and
00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:47.309
prepare them for the recording. So I had a moment
00:36:47.309 --> 00:36:50.940
of hesitation because it was a question. Should
00:36:50.940 --> 00:36:55.059
I do this or should I not do this? So when I
00:36:55.059 --> 00:37:02.079
was preparing my book, I delved into these archives
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.619
and I found a lot of short pieces, completed,
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:13.579
complete short pieces and some fragments of music
00:37:13.579 --> 00:37:18.260
that later created a cycle, for example, something
00:37:18.260 --> 00:37:23.280
like that. So, of course, there was a question,
00:37:23.500 --> 00:37:28.800
would he like it or would he not like it? But
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.519
I think there were some pieces so important,
00:37:31.579 --> 00:37:34.280
of such an importance, like Mazurkas, for example.
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.559
A very important piece that was the first one
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:46.179
from a planned big cycle. Unfortunately, this
00:37:46.179 --> 00:37:49.820
cycle was never completed. But we have this first
00:37:49.820 --> 00:37:54.420
long piece that gives us some insight into his
00:37:54.420 --> 00:38:00.159
intentions. And this is a perfect piece. Just
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:03.019
a complete piece of music. Nine minutes of beautiful
00:38:03.019 --> 00:38:07.920
music. Simple, but very, very dense. Just notes,
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.940
but you are so tired. Yeah, it's exhausting.
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:17.739
I was less tired playing all of Chopin's mazurkas.
00:38:18.250 --> 00:38:22.190
And you play one piece. I think I play it in
00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:24.369
seven minutes. I might be faster, which might
00:38:24.369 --> 00:38:28.110
be bad. I don't know. But maybe because I was
00:38:28.110 --> 00:38:29.989
already thinking I'm going to be too tired. But
00:38:29.989 --> 00:38:32.829
it's true. There are some moments in Gretzky's
00:38:32.829 --> 00:38:35.190
piano music where you feel the space happen in
00:38:35.190 --> 00:38:38.110
real time. Yes, yes. And this can be exhausting.
00:38:39.409 --> 00:38:42.230
There is a piece for violin and piano called
00:38:42.230 --> 00:38:46.900
Little Fantasia. And this little fantasy. I played
00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:50.699
many, many times with the fantastic Polish violinist
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:53.840
Krzysztof Bonkowski. We played all Górecki's
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.760
music and all Lutosławski's music and Arvo Pert
00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:01.000
and so on. So we had a very big repertoire. And
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:07.940
this little fantasia, it lasts for, I don't know,
00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:19.970
13 minutes maybe. It starts with just... very
00:39:19.970 --> 00:39:25.369
simple thing yeah just a few notes to play G
00:39:25.369 --> 00:39:29.449
D D A just a series of fifths over and over and
00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:33.690
he was so exhausted after playing this it was
00:39:33.690 --> 00:39:38.449
so and me too me too I was absolutely yeah so
00:39:38.449 --> 00:39:42.079
tired So it's about intensity and about this
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.960
concentration. So everything is visible. Everything
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:53.139
is so open and so clear and so obvious. Time
00:39:53.139 --> 00:39:57.800
stops. The time just stops sometimes. And there
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:01.719
is nothing like a normal second or two seconds.
00:40:02.059 --> 00:40:06.820
Nothing like this. Yeah, so this is very special.
00:40:07.789 --> 00:40:10.929
I have to say, Anna seems to be, because of the
00:40:10.929 --> 00:40:13.309
opportunity to record this, she seems to be doing
00:40:13.309 --> 00:40:16.409
this job of continuing Goreski's legacy and his
00:40:16.409 --> 00:40:19.230
music. And the piano album she edited very beautifully.
00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:21.670
It's clear exactly what you should do and exactly
00:40:21.670 --> 00:40:25.409
what you should not do. The timings of things
00:40:25.409 --> 00:40:28.469
are clear. And through my research for my book,
00:40:28.630 --> 00:40:32.690
she provided the right types of data. Like when
00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:35.480
I was... choosing should I publish this story
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:37.800
or that story about the composer. She has a really
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.059
good view of what actually links to the music
00:40:40.059 --> 00:40:42.460
and what the practicer, what the artist really
00:40:42.460 --> 00:40:47.320
needs to know. And in that respect, you couldn't
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.579
ask for a better expert. Thank you. I'm happy
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:55.780
I could have you. We're always talking a lot
00:40:55.780 --> 00:40:58.900
at home about music, about performances, about
00:40:58.900 --> 00:41:02.019
musicians. So, yeah, he was a very talkative
00:41:02.019 --> 00:41:06.559
person. During interviews, sometimes he said
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:10.059
just three, four words, but at home it was a
00:41:10.059 --> 00:41:17.119
constant flow of ideas, emotions. So we talked
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.320
a lot about music and we were listening together
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:25.539
to many performances. So I think he managed to
00:41:25.539 --> 00:41:30.840
pass on me his ideas about what he expected from
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:35.320
musicians. So what he expected from performers
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:38.599
of his music. Sometimes it was not very polite,
00:41:38.900 --> 00:41:45.960
but it was very clear. It was very clear. And
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:52.039
yeah, now I will try to be serious. It was very
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:57.519
clear in terms of the structure, about tempi,
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:02.500
agogic, about the quality of sound. about just
00:42:02.500 --> 00:42:06.539
the touch needed to play it in a proper way.
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:14.099
So, yes, I hope I could touch some of his...
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:20.760
Of course, I'm not sure I'm able to pass it forward
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:25.559
or just to make it. I'm trying, but of course
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.760
it's very difficult. But I think I can imagine.
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.820
what he was expecting from the performer. Now,
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:40.940
can you take us through this new album? So what's
00:42:40.940 --> 00:42:44.260
in the album? So what pieces you're playing?
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:48.219
I believe that, Jared, you're playing solo works.
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.679
I did all the solo. And then also, so what are
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.559
the pieces that you guys are playing together?
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:56.739
Is it four hands or two pianos? We played two
00:42:56.739 --> 00:43:00.219
pianos. Two pianos, okay. So we start with the
00:43:00.219 --> 00:43:02.860
toccata for two pianos, which is an early work,
00:43:03.019 --> 00:43:06.320
and then five pieces for two pianos, which is
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:10.260
a serialist work, which is very interesting because
00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:13.099
when we sat down to rehearse it, we were on a
00:43:13.099 --> 00:43:15.000
jury of a competition and in the evenings we
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.000
were talking over dinner about how to play it.
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:19.639
And we were writing out all of the interesting
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.099
rhythmic things we would have to use to count
00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:24.519
this piece because it's not really possible.
00:43:25.369 --> 00:43:27.489
at least we both agreed it probably would not
00:43:27.489 --> 00:43:30.969
be possible without having a something metronome
00:43:30.969 --> 00:43:32.949
clicking in our ears through the performance
00:43:32.949 --> 00:43:36.190
because some of the ways that Goretzky divides
00:43:36.190 --> 00:43:38.929
the rhythms you would have to be able to be in
00:43:38.929 --> 00:43:41.349
the other pianist's brain to make sure that you're
00:43:41.349 --> 00:43:44.829
going to land at the right time so this piece
00:43:44.829 --> 00:43:49.590
initially it looks very forbidding and very very
00:43:49.590 --> 00:43:53.130
thorny to understand and to even begin to practice
00:43:53.130 --> 00:43:55.730
it I had the impression the first couple of times
00:43:55.730 --> 00:43:57.929
of playing it through that I have worked for
00:43:57.929 --> 00:44:00.789
three, four, five, six days. And then I take
00:44:00.789 --> 00:44:02.829
one day to practice what I have to do for my
00:44:02.829 --> 00:44:06.349
next recital. And on the day I come back to these
00:44:06.349 --> 00:44:09.110
five pieces, I have forgotten everything I was
00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:13.250
doing and how to do it all. It was like a black
00:44:13.250 --> 00:44:15.230
magic of some kind. I really didn't know what
00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:24.210
was going on. It was pretty much the same. There
00:44:24.210 --> 00:44:28.590
is nothing like a conventional form or melody
00:44:28.590 --> 00:44:36.869
that could lead us to the piece. So there's nothing
00:44:36.869 --> 00:44:43.889
that helps. It's sort of a puzzle. Yeah. Sort
00:44:43.889 --> 00:44:47.389
of a puzzle and sort of very difficult math.
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.940
We count all the time and we must remember all
00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:56.539
these different places we need to touch in a
00:44:56.539 --> 00:45:01.400
very short time. So the structure is extremely
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.719
demanding and it's so easy to forget everything
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:10.699
that you learned the day before. And there were
00:45:10.699 --> 00:45:16.139
places almost impossible to... to play using
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:18.780
the score. So I had to memorize, for example,
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:22.739
all this solo ending. It's almost impossible
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:26.579
to play it properly in tempo, looking into the
00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:33.239
score. And the text is abstract, so nothing that
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:37.820
would help. But it was fun. It was fun to record
00:45:37.820 --> 00:45:41.380
it. Yeah, it was fun, really. Because when I
00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:45.539
practiced by myself, of course, yeah. very demanding
00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:48.960
very interesting but that was not everything
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.820
and when we started playing together all these
00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:57.719
pieces became you know just rich just interesting
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:02.659
just it was like sort of a painting yeah with
00:46:02.659 --> 00:46:07.340
colors with different points no obvious shapes
00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:15.170
no flowers or dogs but just colorful points and
00:46:15.170 --> 00:46:18.949
spots yeah so it gave me totally new ears as
00:46:18.949 --> 00:46:21.849
well i i feel like my ears are not the same after
00:46:21.849 --> 00:46:23.869
doing that because you know it's kind of like
00:46:23.869 --> 00:46:25.969
the basic piano teaching thing you go back to
00:46:25.969 --> 00:46:28.010
learning your first polyrhythm like two against
00:46:28.010 --> 00:46:30.750
three or four against six in mozart or chopin
00:46:30.750 --> 00:46:33.510
and you think as a kid gosh nothing could be
00:46:33.510 --> 00:46:37.489
more difficult than this nothing as a kid and
00:46:37.489 --> 00:46:39.409
then you look at this score and you think i have
00:46:39.409 --> 00:46:42.500
to subdivide a series of polyrhythms that are
00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:45.760
in not only my part and each of the dynamic points
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:48.219
on the highest level of the keyboard the highest
00:46:48.219 --> 00:46:51.460
range is pianissimo and then within the span
00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:53.519
of thirty second notes you're playing fortissimo
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.880
in the lowest bass and then you have to move
00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.960
by a random interval to piano and then to mezzo
00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:02.760
piano at another interval and then wait a second
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:04.659
while the next piano does something and then
00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:06.539
come back and put a chord there that has nothing
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:09.380
to do with what you previously played yeah almost
00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:12.119
every single note has its own dynamic yeah so
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.199
exactly and within a chord there are multiple
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.619
dynamics per voice and multiple articulations
00:47:17.619 --> 00:47:20.699
so there were points in the studio where i thought
00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:23.730
i think My eyes might be crossing and then going
00:47:23.730 --> 00:47:25.889
the other way just to check like the coordination
00:47:25.889 --> 00:47:29.329
of this thing. And my ear is still clicking mercilessly
00:47:29.329 --> 00:47:33.530
this 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4,
00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:37.210
or 5 or 7 or 9 or 652. Like you never really
00:47:37.210 --> 00:47:40.750
know until you sit down with the other pianist
00:47:40.750 --> 00:47:43.710
and work all the details out of rhythm exactly
00:47:43.710 --> 00:47:46.909
how much it will demand of you. But it's funny
00:47:46.909 --> 00:47:49.039
that. Other than playing the sonata, which is
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.880
long and very dense and aggressive in places,
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:56.860
my strongest memory in the studio is of that
00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:00.679
piece. Not necessarily every single detail, but
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:03.019
I remember several points where we both thought,
00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:05.139
I need a break because I think I'm losing my
00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:08.440
mind here. Yes, I think the biggest difference
00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:11.800
is in time. Because this is like sonata, for
00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:15.360
example, or anything else we played or you played.
00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:21.760
the normal musical time just flows in a normal
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:28.099
way. And here the time is so strictly defined,
00:48:28.780 --> 00:48:33.119
it's so strict that there is nothing like normal
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:38.059
breathing or normal phrasing or just transition
00:48:38.059 --> 00:48:41.199
from one phrase to another. There is nothing
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:46.690
like this. Sometimes, sometimes you feel like
00:48:46.690 --> 00:48:53.590
part of a machine. Yes. But you must be this
00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:57.369
machine, but still you must create some, you
00:48:57.369 --> 00:49:01.469
know, some space, some colors, some. Yes. This
00:49:01.469 --> 00:49:04.710
is very difficult. I liked when we started. It
00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:07.250
was really fun. In the end, it's one of my most
00:49:07.250 --> 00:49:09.610
memorable experiences to date because the first
00:49:09.610 --> 00:49:12.639
time we rehearsed in Katowice. I said, look,
00:49:12.739 --> 00:49:15.059
I don't know how we're going to do this. I don't
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:18.340
know how I'm going to do this. And when Anna
00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:20.400
said it's like a modern painting, like something
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.199
very much pointillistic or just a splash of color
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:25.699
here and then some other dots, it was this whole
00:49:25.699 --> 00:49:28.980
painting metaphor. And it reminded me of being
00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:31.500
somewhere like Santo de Pompidou in Paris, like
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:35.219
where all the modern art installations are. Because.
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:38.340
When we started playing it, you listen differently
00:49:38.340 --> 00:49:40.519
when it's just going to be one splash of color
00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:43.380
for that moment, and that's it. And you look
00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.380
differently when you observe art this way as
00:49:45.380 --> 00:49:47.019
well, when you know that there's not going to
00:49:47.019 --> 00:49:50.460
be a continuous narrative like the Nanufara of
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:53.840
Monet. You can watch forever, and it's all lilies.
00:49:54.940 --> 00:49:57.440
But a painting like this, or a sound painting
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.199
like this, is a totally different approach to
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.579
sound. And Goretzky did it very, very rarely,
00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:04.599
right? He didn't... The only other thing was
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:08.840
the three... and some other serialist stuff for
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:11.380
orchestra, but it wasn't his main expression.
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:17.579
This was in the 60s. That was a very strong wave
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:21.400
of pieces like this. Scontri and so on, first
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:25.659
symphony. The first version of Songs of Joy of
00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:30.800
Rhythm was also very strict in terms of time.
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:35.179
So segments that you should play, let's say 17
00:50:35.179 --> 00:50:39.780
seconds. And the second version of Songs of Geoffrey
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:42.820
is much more free. It's just, let's say, normal.
00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:46.579
That's interesting. The paradox in this music,
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:48.760
when the time is more tightly controlled down
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.940
to the second, you feel it afterward when you
00:50:52.940 --> 00:50:55.380
listen. You can sit back and for some reason,
00:50:55.420 --> 00:50:58.500
when I listen to our recording of this. Listening
00:50:58.500 --> 00:51:01.340
to Pienczuk photos of five pieces, I felt so
00:51:01.340 --> 00:51:05.139
relaxed. Yes, me too. Listening to the salata.
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.400
The effect is different, totally different from
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:13.300
the process. Exactly, yeah. Extremely complicated
00:51:13.300 --> 00:51:16.760
and difficult and demanding. And when you just
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:19.639
listen to these pieces, you see all these colors
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:23.739
and shapes and shapes. Yeah, that's good. I had
00:51:23.739 --> 00:51:25.880
the feeling also, I have to give credit here
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.179
to our sound engineer, Anne -Marie Silvesque.
00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:31.519
She's from Quebec. She's amazing, and she knew
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.420
exactly what to do with this. And right down
00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:37.519
to the last moments with the files before the
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:42.400
album went to print, she was checking with me,
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:44.039
and I don't know if she was checking with you,
00:51:44.059 --> 00:51:46.360
Anna, that the space between each piece, which
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:48.659
is also calculated, is exactly the number of
00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:51.039
seconds that Goretzky wrote. Yes, yes. So that
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:54.420
in the end, the total time, three or two or five.
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.300
In between, yeah. Yeah, and these are also calculated,
00:51:58.340 --> 00:52:01.059
and it gives this incredible effect when you
00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:04.179
listen to it that you can feel your brain being
00:52:04.179 --> 00:52:06.280
pulled in different directions to listen to different
00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:08.500
things, and you feel the gymnastics of your listening.
00:52:08.780 --> 00:52:12.300
When you're doing a jump up and then way down
00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:15.010
and landing on the ground, it's something. I
00:52:15.010 --> 00:52:17.829
don't know. I wish I could have spoken with Gretzky
00:52:17.829 --> 00:52:20.369
about exactly what he was doing, like what he
00:52:20.369 --> 00:52:22.489
was thinking when he wrote it, because some of
00:52:22.489 --> 00:52:26.329
it, as you practice, defies normal interpretation,
00:52:26.570 --> 00:52:29.250
let's say. It's not, you can't read it like with
00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:31.250
a narration in mind. It's not a Schubert sonata.
00:52:32.329 --> 00:52:34.909
Or even something like Messiaen, like the Vision
00:52:34.909 --> 00:52:37.210
de la Menne or the Vers Regardes. These have
00:52:37.210 --> 00:52:39.949
images associated even with highly dense and
00:52:39.949 --> 00:52:43.059
sometimes awkward textures. But this piece is
00:52:43.059 --> 00:52:45.280
totally outside of all of that. And that made
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.019
it the most interesting for me because I had
00:52:47.019 --> 00:52:49.960
never done anything like that. This was very
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:53.079
interesting, too, playing alongside someone that
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:55.000
I studied with for so long. And I understand
00:52:55.000 --> 00:53:00.099
what she expects of me and how she wants my development
00:53:00.099 --> 00:53:05.039
to go. And then when we worked together, I started
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:07.000
to understand also what she expects of herself.
00:53:07.630 --> 00:53:10.570
That was very interesting because Anna plays
00:53:10.570 --> 00:53:14.030
on an incredibly high level. And then as a student,
00:53:14.050 --> 00:53:16.449
you look at your teacher and go, wow, OK, that's
00:53:16.449 --> 00:53:18.530
amazing. But then when you're working with them,
00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:20.329
you realize, well, it's actually much higher
00:53:20.329 --> 00:53:22.329
than I ever would have realized as a student.
00:53:23.530 --> 00:53:27.710
So it's much higher that they're expecting of
00:53:27.710 --> 00:53:29.550
themselves, that they're going for it. Because
00:53:29.550 --> 00:53:32.030
as a student, your mind is more on yourself and
00:53:32.030 --> 00:53:35.980
what you need to do. And your teachers there,
00:53:36.099 --> 00:53:38.739
their role is to point out all the insufficiencies
00:53:38.739 --> 00:53:40.840
and to get you past all of that stuff. So, of
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:43.019
course, on a higher level. But the transformation
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:45.440
of it into actually collaborating and playing
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.940
together, not as, you know, Anna's playing the
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:49.719
orchestra part of Brahms concerto for me, which
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:52.780
is really very nice. I'm lucky, but this was
00:53:52.780 --> 00:53:57.820
fun. And now, oh, wait, it's an equal partnership.
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:00.400
We are playing together and we have to find a
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:04.070
way to. complement what each other is doing and
00:54:04.070 --> 00:54:06.349
make the music work. I didn't notice it fully
00:54:06.349 --> 00:54:08.929
until we were rehearsing together exactly how
00:54:08.929 --> 00:54:12.210
hard Anna pushes herself and how far she goes
00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:15.650
to work so the music comes out exactly the way
00:54:15.650 --> 00:54:19.769
that it's supposed to. That's a hard task. Yeah,
00:54:19.849 --> 00:54:25.550
I'd say our rehearsals were quite fruitful. I
00:54:25.550 --> 00:54:28.469
think so. Because they were not very long and
00:54:28.469 --> 00:54:30.570
they were not very exhausting, but they were...
00:54:31.150 --> 00:54:35.230
I think we understood each other well. And we
00:54:35.230 --> 00:54:40.750
had a common view of things we want to do. So
00:54:40.750 --> 00:54:45.150
that was fun. Thank you. Interesting, too, that
00:54:45.150 --> 00:54:47.190
I would have thought going into this that I had
00:54:47.190 --> 00:54:49.909
to form an opinion that was exactly the same
00:54:49.909 --> 00:54:52.309
as yours, because it's your father's music. You
00:54:52.309 --> 00:54:55.510
know him best compared to any performer, certainly
00:54:55.510 --> 00:54:58.110
compared to me. But when we would talk about
00:54:58.110 --> 00:55:01.340
it, I was in shock sometimes at how. open -minded
00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:05.940
you're also about the um of course i'm not saying
00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:07.900
we should play it in the wrong style or in some
00:55:07.900 --> 00:55:11.019
you know really radically different way but i
00:55:11.019 --> 00:55:13.639
felt welcome to share this is my impression of
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:15.719
what's going on here can we consider it and we
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:17.679
would practice different ways until we found
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:20.960
mutually a solution to a musical problem particularly
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:25.579
in the piano and that was a really really transformative
00:55:25.579 --> 00:55:31.800
process for me Yes, I think your approach and
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:36.780
your insight was very precious because we can
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:41.179
never say that the pianist is just a tool and
00:55:41.179 --> 00:55:45.000
the composer is programming us somehow as a computer,
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:51.019
let's say. Of course, my father, he expected
00:55:51.019 --> 00:55:53.880
right tempi, right dynamic. Everything should
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:58.610
be like he intended. put it down. But what was
00:55:58.610 --> 00:56:02.269
very funny when he was conducting this, let's
00:56:02.269 --> 00:56:07.349
say his third symphony himself, this performance
00:56:07.349 --> 00:56:11.610
is 10 minutes longer than the standard. And then
00:56:11.610 --> 00:56:15.849
the time indicated in the score. So he himself
00:56:15.849 --> 00:56:18.769
felt that the music is something that lives.
00:56:19.010 --> 00:56:27.099
It's nothing done once for always. like a teacher
00:56:27.099 --> 00:56:31.480
for example so I think of course we need to follow
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:36.340
all instructions we can't play lento allegro
00:56:36.340 --> 00:56:41.920
allegro lento but we need to be ourselves somehow
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:46.699
because we'll create some fake situation if we
00:56:46.699 --> 00:56:50.320
are not and I think Goretzky's music particularly
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.460
I think about this in the sonata and in this
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:56.340
uh also preludes there are fermatas sometimes
00:56:56.340 --> 00:56:58.320
at the end of the movement that will allow you
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:00.960
to spend a lot of time thinking between one movement
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.619
and the next and some performers for example
00:57:03.619 --> 00:57:06.199
for sonata take only 12 minutes or 12 minutes
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.480
30 seconds i know i took something like 13 minutes
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.519
or 14 almost 14 i think but i liked to let the
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:16.219
fermatas live for a while and it doesn't mean
00:57:16.219 --> 00:57:17.699
the temp it's interesting it doesn't mean the
00:57:17.699 --> 00:57:20.300
tempo of the allegro is slower because the pianist
00:57:20.300 --> 00:57:22.639
struggles to play fast There are moments where
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:24.800
you want to let the sound just sit there and
00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:26.980
register in real time with your listener and
00:57:26.980 --> 00:57:30.139
give them the sensation that what they just heard,
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.440
they now have time to absorb it. So much depends
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:41.139
on the acoustics, the amount of people. So all
00:57:41.139 --> 00:57:45.260
these things change. So we can't just stick to
00:57:45.260 --> 00:57:50.800
one pattern and just reproduce it. Well, thank
00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.400
you for sharing all these. So just to be clear,
00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:58.460
the first piece was Toccata, two pianos, and
00:57:58.460 --> 00:58:01.760
then followed by your solo pieces? No, the next
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:06.639
piece is called Five Pieces for Two Pianos. Okay.
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:09.000
So there are two pieces on the album in total,
00:58:09.059 --> 00:58:12.320
Toccata and Five Pieces for Two Pianos. These
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:15.039
are the two piano pieces. And then all the solo
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:19.059
after that. And what are all the solo pieces?
00:58:19.849 --> 00:58:22.670
There are four preludes, opus one, the sonata,
00:58:22.750 --> 00:58:29.070
opus six, a bird's nest, opus nine, lullaby,
00:58:29.349 --> 00:58:36.130
moment musical, sundry pieces for piano, various
00:58:36.130 --> 00:58:40.949
works, which, yeah. Because I listened to Anna's
00:58:40.949 --> 00:58:45.079
album. You play that piece too. And it's this
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.159
interesting set that has a funny little waltz
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:49.440
at the end that was like a sarcastic gift for
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:55.340
the family friend. A piano professor who was
00:58:55.340 --> 00:58:56.960
practicing and her neighbors were complaining
00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:59.159
it's too much noise. So Goretzky wrote this really
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:03.539
brash waltz. It's a very quiet, brooding opening.
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.059
And then suddenly it sounds like a child slamming
00:59:06.059 --> 00:59:08.219
the piano with the fist. It's really interesting.
00:59:09.099 --> 00:59:11.900
And he wrote it as a gift to this professor.
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.280
Yeah. So in total on the album, there's, I think
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:19.599
it's 33 or 34 tracks in total and it's nine pieces.
00:59:20.019 --> 00:59:24.179
Wonderful. As, as this episode is going out,
00:59:24.260 --> 00:59:29.719
your album is available to purchase and also
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:32.699
music stream services as well. Yes, that's right.
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:38.269
It's released by the label Atma Classic. And
00:59:38.269 --> 00:59:40.170
it's available on all streaming services. And
00:59:40.170 --> 00:59:42.230
yes, it's available on the Atma website for purchase.
00:59:42.610 --> 00:59:47.650
Okay. So I'll make sure to link everything in
00:59:47.650 --> 00:59:50.889
the show notes so that our listeners can have
00:59:50.889 --> 00:59:54.289
the access for purchase and also for listening.
00:59:55.190 --> 01:00:00.090
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forward to sharing more joyous and meaningful
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experiences with you on the PianoPod. So Jared.
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.920
So what were you thinking? Abandoning everything
01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:04.599
in North America to go to Poland. I'm teasing.
01:01:05.059 --> 01:01:08.900
So, you know, you are originally from Montreal.
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:13.260
I'm originally from Ontario. I was born in Niagara
01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:15.820
Falls and I grew up in Toronto and now I live
01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.909
in Montreal. Got it. Yeah. And then you also
01:01:18.909 --> 01:01:22.369
studied in New York, correct? That's right. Yeah.
01:01:22.449 --> 01:01:27.070
So basically your childhood and extensive studies
01:01:27.070 --> 01:01:31.070
were done in North America, although Canada and
01:01:31.070 --> 01:01:33.690
of course America is two different countries
01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:36.789
and two different educational systems too. But
01:01:36.789 --> 01:01:40.050
then you moved to Poland and what led you to
01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:43.190
study? Well, you mentioned briefly, but was Anna
01:01:43.190 --> 01:01:47.619
the deciding factor for you? Yes, she was. That's
01:01:47.619 --> 01:01:51.980
an easy answer. Her first lessons, not only mine
01:01:51.980 --> 01:01:54.440
about the Liszt Sonata and some Chopin ballads,
01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:58.460
but watching her teach other people at this masterclass
01:01:58.460 --> 01:02:02.320
convinced me that this is what I needed and it
01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:05.039
would be good for me. I was very, very happy
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:07.780
with my life. I had always planned to move to
01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:10.119
New York. I was very happy to get to study with
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:14.300
the teachers I worked with there. And now I'm
01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:16.960
very lucky that on occasion I get to be back
01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:21.460
there teaching. For example, my last year, my
01:02:21.460 --> 01:02:23.579
first engagement of the year was teaching the
01:02:23.579 --> 01:02:25.659
piano seminar at Juilliard. That's a huge honor
01:02:25.659 --> 01:02:28.559
to be invited to give any kind of teaching there.
01:02:28.820 --> 01:02:31.039
And I talked about this exact question that you
01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:32.860
said, how do you build a career and what do you
01:02:32.860 --> 01:02:36.099
do? And the answer that I like to give is you
01:02:36.099 --> 01:02:39.659
take the unexpected opportunity that is not the
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:42.179
obvious way forward that you always planned.
01:02:42.809 --> 01:02:45.130
Because maybe there's a deeper reason in your
01:02:45.130 --> 01:02:48.829
heart, really deep, or something you really want
01:02:48.829 --> 01:02:51.050
to do, that you just don't consider possible.
01:02:51.469 --> 01:02:53.489
And I never had considered it possible from my
01:02:53.489 --> 01:02:56.829
early years in Toronto that I would ever meet
01:02:56.829 --> 01:02:58.909
Anna Goretzka, because I'd heard her albums and
01:02:58.909 --> 01:03:02.909
I knew who she was. Everyone in the musical world
01:03:02.909 --> 01:03:04.630
knows who Goretzka is because of Third Symphony,
01:03:04.789 --> 01:03:06.889
right? So it's just unfathomable not to form
01:03:06.889 --> 01:03:09.590
sort of a complex, like this family is a celebrity,
01:03:09.730 --> 01:03:12.809
you'll never even get close. But that first masterclass
01:03:12.809 --> 01:03:15.909
in Warsaw, I knew if she would be even halfway
01:03:15.909 --> 01:03:18.110
interested, I'm moving to Poland in the fall.
01:03:18.429 --> 01:03:21.010
And so when she offered a place in her class,
01:03:21.190 --> 01:03:23.650
I don't even remember other than thinking, I've
01:03:23.650 --> 01:03:27.190
got to call my teacher. And I did. I emailed
01:03:27.190 --> 01:03:31.130
her and we chatted on the phone. And she said,
01:03:31.130 --> 01:03:33.809
you need to go. It's a fantastic opportunity.
01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:39.869
And then I moved out of my apartment, which was
01:03:39.869 --> 01:03:43.079
in the North Bronx. on Pelham Parkway. And I
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:46.719
thought, next year, I'm just going to be going
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:48.619
down into Manhattan for my lessons every day
01:03:48.619 --> 01:03:51.519
and planning to do competitions in Europe. And
01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:53.559
so I would always be going to JFK to get to Warsaw
01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:56.280
anyway, or to get to London or to Dublin or whatever.
01:03:57.059 --> 01:03:59.079
And I thought, honestly, economically, it'd be
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:01.019
better if I was just taking the train from Katowice
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:05.880
rather than flying from New York City. So I asked...
01:04:07.750 --> 01:04:10.090
Anna, I remember our conversation was in Warsaw,
01:04:10.190 --> 01:04:13.030
right outside of the Chopin Academy of Music.
01:04:14.349 --> 01:04:17.809
And she put me in touch with the admissions department
01:04:17.809 --> 01:04:20.230
in Katowice, who sent me all the paperwork. And
01:04:20.230 --> 01:04:22.670
then I wrote to her from Hungary. I was in another
01:04:22.670 --> 01:04:25.269
program that summer with Jano Jando. And I wrote
01:04:25.269 --> 01:04:27.070
to her two weeks later and I said, OK, so I'm
01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:29.130
coming to Katowice, you know, and she wrote back,
01:04:29.150 --> 01:04:30.909
you're really fast. You're like some kind of
01:04:30.909 --> 01:04:34.789
high speed train. But there was no question in
01:04:34.789 --> 01:04:37.170
my mind after hearing her teach and feeling.
01:04:37.309 --> 01:04:39.269
I remember the first thing she said about La
01:04:39.269 --> 01:04:41.170
Sonata and the first thing she said about Chopin's
01:04:41.170 --> 01:04:44.190
Fourth Ballade. She said, you understand the
01:04:44.190 --> 01:04:46.690
piece really, really well. And now let's work
01:04:46.690 --> 01:04:49.789
on. She listed a few things that I could work
01:04:49.789 --> 01:04:52.010
on technically, and she had them solved within
01:04:52.010 --> 01:04:55.730
the class. And that's always interested me very
01:04:55.730 --> 01:04:58.309
deeply about piano teaching, that if you really
01:04:58.309 --> 01:05:00.409
know exactly what has to be done in order to
01:05:00.409 --> 01:05:03.210
make something work. You can solve issues that
01:05:03.210 --> 01:05:05.750
have plagued the person's playing for years in
01:05:05.750 --> 01:05:08.769
five minutes if you know how to do it. And I
01:05:08.769 --> 01:05:10.510
walked out of those classes a different pianist.
01:05:11.070 --> 01:05:13.329
So I knew I can only imagine what will happen
01:05:13.329 --> 01:05:16.710
if I spent five years. At that time, I think
01:05:16.710 --> 01:05:18.909
I was only thinking two years, master's and finish
01:05:18.909 --> 01:05:23.110
and then C. But I stayed for another few. And,
01:05:23.329 --> 01:05:27.250
you know, it's difficult to really compare it
01:05:27.250 --> 01:05:28.530
to anything else because nothing like that had
01:05:28.530 --> 01:05:32.590
ever happened to me. But when you... when you
01:05:32.590 --> 01:05:34.469
know it works, you just know you have to do this.
01:05:34.570 --> 01:05:36.150
You're not going to get another opportunity.
01:05:36.230 --> 01:05:38.110
They don't come along every day, and they don't
01:05:38.110 --> 01:05:41.510
last often if they do. And the minute I put my
01:05:41.510 --> 01:05:43.989
bags down in the dormitory in Katowice, and I
01:05:43.989 --> 01:05:46.230
felt, this is very different than New York City.
01:05:46.809 --> 01:05:49.989
Not everyone here speaks English. I'm going to
01:05:49.989 --> 01:05:52.829
have to learn the language. I was a little overwhelmed.
01:05:53.369 --> 01:05:55.349
But then at the first lesson, we played through
01:05:55.349 --> 01:05:58.719
B minor Chopin sonata. And the minute she started
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.019
teaching again, it was exactly like I'd remembered
01:06:01.019 --> 01:06:02.980
in Warsaw. This person knows exactly what to
01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:06.579
say to get my interest in the music. I want to
01:06:06.579 --> 01:06:08.800
run to the practice room and try everything she
01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:10.679
just said. In fact, I remember that first lesson
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:14.099
in the academy. She told me. We need 50, at least
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:16.500
minimum, 50 different ways of playing every phrase
01:06:16.500 --> 01:06:19.719
before we just choose one. So don't rush. Go
01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:22.139
to the practice room and find as many possible
01:06:22.139 --> 01:06:24.079
ways as you can think of to play the B minor
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.059
sonata so it's not this long, boring 40 minutes
01:06:27.059 --> 01:06:28.920
of the same thing you've practiced over and over
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:34.119
again. I love this kind of teaching. And it just
01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.199
worked. I mean, obviously it did, otherwise we
01:06:36.199 --> 01:06:37.539
wouldn't be sitting here at this point, I think,
01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:39.159
as it develops, right? It's a long evolution,
01:06:39.400 --> 01:06:42.489
but when you know it works... You just feel something
01:06:42.489 --> 01:06:45.769
and you do it. And I was very lucky to have in
01:06:45.769 --> 01:06:48.809
my corner at the time, my beloved teacher, Veda
01:06:48.809 --> 01:06:51.750
Kaplinsky, who said to me, this just sounds right.
01:06:51.849 --> 01:06:54.750
It just sounds right. You need to do it. And
01:06:54.750 --> 01:06:57.670
that's also very rare, because when you build
01:06:57.670 --> 01:06:59.670
a life in our sort of North American direction
01:06:59.670 --> 01:07:03.190
with big names and big schools and the idea that
01:07:03.190 --> 01:07:04.969
your career needs to go in a certain direction
01:07:04.969 --> 01:07:08.570
in order to be successful, a 10 year trip to
01:07:08.570 --> 01:07:11.900
Europe. isn't necessarily the way that we advertise
01:07:11.900 --> 01:07:16.079
go do that but um it was the right thing for
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.059
me and it was good for me I mean it built it
01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:20.900
built my life now as I know it but looking at
01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:25.380
you like because I also teach too and young students
01:07:25.380 --> 01:07:31.880
and the way this North America teaches or system
01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:35.300
like competitions and everything right as opposed
01:07:35.300 --> 01:07:40.779
to what you gained in five years in Poland Yeah,
01:07:40.779 --> 01:07:44.880
I'm looking from here. It's like, wow. I can
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:48.460
envy you, you know, I envy you. I did get very,
01:07:48.519 --> 01:07:51.119
very lucky. What do we tell our kids? And I teach
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.039
kids, too. We tell them to do their exams, to
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.260
apply to big name conservatories, that they should
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:58.380
look at Europe's competition world. But the idea
01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:02.360
of going to live in Europe and to imbibe the
01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:05.239
culture of it and to feel like you're not rapaciously
01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:07.639
looking for the next experience, you need to
01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:09.980
build your resume. You just want to sit with
01:08:09.980 --> 01:08:12.480
someone who knows music and get to know what
01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:15.539
they know and to be in that space for a long,
01:08:15.579 --> 01:08:19.199
long time just to absorb. This is a very different
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:21.220
narrative. And this is how it looked for me going
01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:23.300
to Poland was just to be around other musicians
01:08:23.300 --> 01:08:26.300
who were just musical holics and don't want to
01:08:26.300 --> 01:08:29.359
talk about the business and the agents and the
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:32.079
career side of things until you absolutely have
01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:35.359
to. But for now, our work in the studio that
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:38.079
I remember so clearly was that every composer.
01:08:38.750 --> 01:08:41.109
we were studying was our obsession for that period.
01:08:41.729 --> 01:08:45.609
And just every detail of it and every sense of
01:08:45.609 --> 01:08:47.289
how to touch the keyboard, how to make sound,
01:08:47.489 --> 01:08:50.869
how to listen to sound. Of course, it changes
01:08:50.869 --> 01:08:53.529
you. It transforms not only as a pianist and
01:08:53.529 --> 01:08:55.970
as a musician, but you get the feeling that this
01:08:55.970 --> 01:09:00.149
teacher really cares about you, cares where you're
01:09:00.149 --> 01:09:02.270
going and cares what's going to happen to you
01:09:02.270 --> 01:09:05.050
when you get there. So you better be ready. And
01:09:05.050 --> 01:09:07.930
the teaching goes. in that direction, which I
01:09:07.930 --> 01:09:11.270
think is the right one. Then you've described
01:09:11.270 --> 01:09:15.130
to yourself your pianism as unrecognizable compared
01:09:15.130 --> 01:09:20.670
to where you started. So tell me. I went to Katowice
01:09:20.670 --> 01:09:24.649
feeling like if I'm not immediately taken to
01:09:24.649 --> 01:09:27.189
the highest level of competition technically,
01:09:27.489 --> 01:09:30.409
then it means I'm not a pianist. And Anna set
01:09:30.409 --> 01:09:32.270
that one in the right direction within the first
01:09:32.270 --> 01:09:35.569
few lessons. You have to be a musician. And she
01:09:35.569 --> 01:09:38.409
started coloring it all in with the way you make
01:09:38.409 --> 01:09:41.909
deep, rich, beautiful sound and feel the interpretation
01:09:41.909 --> 01:09:45.750
and time everything you do on the stage according
01:09:45.750 --> 01:09:48.529
to the real sense of the feeling of the score
01:09:48.529 --> 01:09:51.949
and a deep understanding of how it works. And
01:09:51.949 --> 01:09:54.090
after the first year, I couldn't remember my
01:09:54.090 --> 01:09:59.890
technique being better and my musicality being
01:09:59.890 --> 01:10:02.949
present all the time. It was never... Anything
01:10:02.949 --> 01:10:05.850
explained technically or practice wise about
01:10:05.850 --> 01:10:09.210
how to play the instrument that was excluded
01:10:09.210 --> 01:10:13.210
from how to think about sound and how to hear
01:10:13.210 --> 01:10:17.369
music. And I mean, for that reason, Anna was
01:10:17.369 --> 01:10:19.270
fantastic for me because she could sense exactly
01:10:19.270 --> 01:10:21.329
where I was thinking too much schematically,
01:10:21.449 --> 01:10:24.289
too much mechanically and put into the sound
01:10:24.289 --> 01:10:27.050
a kind of color. And there was never any direct
01:10:27.050 --> 01:10:29.310
criticism of me trying to be a better pianist
01:10:29.310 --> 01:10:32.739
or trying to just focus on technique. But I remember
01:10:32.739 --> 01:10:34.840
thinking after one lesson on a Chopin etude,
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.199
it felt more deep and emotional and riveting
01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:40.960
than the last time I had played a Schubert sonata
01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:43.279
or a Beethoven sonata. It was just something
01:10:43.279 --> 01:10:46.500
really, really invested in the electricity of
01:10:46.500 --> 01:10:48.560
every single note and the feeling of playing
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:50.579
it. That's something special. I don't think a
01:10:50.579 --> 01:10:52.399
lot of teachers spend time practicing with their
01:10:52.399 --> 01:10:55.579
students, but Anna will show you how to practice
01:10:55.579 --> 01:10:57.260
it so that you can feel the way she's thinking
01:10:57.260 --> 01:10:59.840
it and you can see the way the score works. And
01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:02.060
that's something. There's just more time for
01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:04.020
lessons there as well. I love that in Karavica.
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:05.680
It wasn't just one hour a week and you're done.
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:08.079
Sometimes two, three hours. This was incredible.
01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:12.619
And I used to think, my God, now I teach all
01:11:12.619 --> 01:11:15.380
the time. I practice with my students like Anna
01:11:15.380 --> 01:11:18.640
taught. So I teach. And I used to think she's
01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:20.300
probably getting really bored of sitting through
01:11:20.300 --> 01:11:22.520
another lesson on a Rachmaninoff. We did the
01:11:22.520 --> 01:11:24.159
second concerto and she turned to me smiling.
01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:26.840
I can have a hundred lessons like this where
01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:30.369
we just practice. careful and touch the piano
01:11:30.369 --> 01:11:32.689
perfectly and think about the interpretation
01:11:32.689 --> 01:11:36.210
and this was fantastic do you remember this on
01:11:36.210 --> 01:11:39.189
Rachmaninoff second yeah yeah I'm really ashamed
01:11:39.189 --> 01:11:41.989
here to listen to all these things you're doing
01:11:41.989 --> 01:11:45.250
you're talking about me thank you so much you're
01:11:45.250 --> 01:11:47.609
a perfect student there so everything you you
01:11:47.609 --> 01:11:52.550
say now uh is just a perfect example of someone
01:11:52.550 --> 01:11:57.510
who who knows a lot about playing the piano and
01:11:57.510 --> 01:12:02.649
the music itself so yeah i must say i was blessed
01:12:02.649 --> 01:12:06.130
with great teachers me myself i i had really
01:12:06.130 --> 01:12:10.850
really great teachers so first i had this old
01:12:10.850 --> 01:12:13.569
lady vanda meloska she was already retired when
01:12:13.569 --> 01:12:19.069
i started with her and she was just an expert
01:12:19.069 --> 01:12:23.050
in teaching there is a big book written by her
01:12:23.050 --> 01:12:27.939
very important book used nowadays about the method
01:12:27.939 --> 01:12:32.539
and everything so yeah all these you know positions
01:12:32.539 --> 01:12:35.659
and yeah but i must say these lessons were very
01:12:35.659 --> 01:12:38.439
interesting because yeah i was very small i was
01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:43.140
four or five so it was dancing singing repeating
01:12:43.140 --> 01:12:46.579
after her some improvisations some technical
01:12:46.579 --> 01:12:51.239
exercises some memorizing uh without the score
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.600
yeah so it was really nice And later I had two
01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:57.899
great ladies. Later I entered a regular school
01:12:57.899 --> 01:13:02.939
and I had two very good, perfect ladies. And
01:13:02.939 --> 01:13:07.079
later I studied for five years in Katowice with
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:11.279
professor Andrzej Jasiński. And of course, this
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:14.420
is of course a person that almost every pianist
01:13:14.420 --> 01:13:17.680
knows because he's a teacher of Christian Zimmermann
01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:22.550
and he's very active. teacher and he goes to
01:13:22.550 --> 01:13:26.270
master classes and so on and so on and this was
01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:30.069
really great because he was someone who showed
01:13:30.069 --> 01:13:34.489
me how to organize the whole process of preparing
01:13:34.489 --> 01:13:39.590
a new piece how to work technically stylistically
01:13:39.590 --> 01:13:43.850
formally so everything was really well organized
01:13:43.850 --> 01:13:47.250
and very wise and very smart and very practical
01:13:48.970 --> 01:13:54.350
And my last teacher was a fantastic Russian teacher,
01:13:54.729 --> 01:13:58.670
pianist, first of all, and teacher, Viktor Mirzanov.
01:13:59.949 --> 01:14:04.149
I went to Germany to study with him for two years.
01:14:05.229 --> 01:14:09.909
And it was he who opened my eyes to new perspectives.
01:14:10.829 --> 01:14:17.569
And he forced me somehow to look. To look for
01:14:17.569 --> 01:14:20.810
both solutions, not to be afraid of doing different
01:14:20.810 --> 01:14:25.149
things, not to calculate, not to think about
01:14:25.149 --> 01:14:30.229
what someone could say about this, for example.
01:14:31.550 --> 01:14:36.250
So what I learned from him is that you can't
01:14:36.250 --> 01:14:40.569
calculate artistically. You must, of course,
01:14:40.630 --> 01:14:47.380
calculate acoustically, technically. But you
01:14:47.380 --> 01:14:50.399
mustn't calculate artistically. If you do this,
01:14:50.500 --> 01:14:56.800
you are done. Nothing will help you if you make
01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.739
some artificial puzzle or calculations. That's
01:15:00.739 --> 01:15:04.539
not the way. So he was great, yes. That was someone
01:15:04.539 --> 01:15:10.220
very important to me. And I must say, maybe something
01:15:10.220 --> 01:15:14.300
that is also... slightly different than in US
01:15:14.300 --> 01:15:21.680
or Canada is the whole the whole system of musical
01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:25.560
education in Poland because I must say it's pretty
01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:29.640
well organized from the very beginning because
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:33.659
we start early with a full professional course
01:15:33.659 --> 01:15:39.170
so we have eight years of elementary school,
01:15:39.510 --> 01:15:43.010
then we have four years of high school and later
01:15:43.010 --> 01:15:47.930
this university level, academic level. So this
01:15:47.930 --> 01:15:54.470
gives you 17 years of professional education
01:15:54.470 --> 01:16:01.789
and we have two kinds of musical schools. So
01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:06.420
the first one is the general music. I don't know,
01:16:06.500 --> 01:16:09.000
general music school. So that you have everything,
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:13.739
math, biology, harmony, solfeggio. Yeah, everything
01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:20.500
together. Physics, chemistry. And you go, you
01:16:20.500 --> 01:16:22.699
start at eight o 'clock in the morning. You have
01:16:22.699 --> 01:16:28.220
everything together. And so that's this general
01:16:28.220 --> 01:16:33.189
music school. 12 years and there is another sort
01:16:33.189 --> 01:16:35.569
of schools that you just go in the afternoon
01:16:35.569 --> 01:16:39.770
and have just music so so federal harmony uh
01:16:39.770 --> 01:16:45.989
yeah instrument choir orchestra and um all teacher
01:16:45.989 --> 01:16:50.649
all teachers must have a full master degree so
01:16:50.649 --> 01:16:56.750
uh so not no accidents no mishaps it should happen
01:16:56.750 --> 01:17:04.689
that's just yeah some level of professional curve.
01:17:04.770 --> 01:17:06.670
Even some students are getting the very good
01:17:06.670 --> 01:17:08.989
fortune to study with you in a high school. They
01:17:08.989 --> 01:17:10.989
had this opportunity, yeah? Yes, I do. So you're
01:17:10.989 --> 01:17:15.090
a professor of the academy. I really like, I
01:17:15.090 --> 01:17:18.270
really love teaching, yes. What we would call
01:17:18.270 --> 01:17:21.289
pre -college, which is basically like a privatized
01:17:21.289 --> 01:17:23.949
form of education, is in Poland part of the option
01:17:23.949 --> 01:17:26.590
for you to go to high school, basically. So you
01:17:26.590 --> 01:17:29.909
can go to a pre -college where for... Like what
01:17:29.909 --> 01:17:31.810
Anna is mentioning. And when I practiced with
01:17:31.810 --> 01:17:33.689
some of her students as an assistant when she
01:17:33.689 --> 01:17:36.489
would go on tour, some kids are bringing Scrabble
01:17:36.489 --> 01:17:38.789
concerto to their normal high school piano lesson
01:17:38.789 --> 01:17:40.850
or a Beethoven sonata. Yeah, that's high school.
01:17:40.869 --> 01:17:43.590
High school level is quite high, yes. Yeah, and
01:17:43.590 --> 01:17:46.409
this is just normal public music school and then
01:17:46.409 --> 01:17:48.270
there's specialist music school as well. And
01:17:48.270 --> 01:17:50.609
these are options that you don't have to pay
01:17:50.609 --> 01:17:53.210
extra for the way you would pay to go to pre
01:17:53.210 --> 01:17:56.449
-college here. So this form of education is just
01:17:56.449 --> 01:18:00.500
baked into the culture for you. I know. There
01:18:00.500 --> 01:18:04.119
are a lot of competitions just for students,
01:18:04.220 --> 01:18:11.199
for music schools. Just from where I stand, so
01:18:11.199 --> 01:18:15.039
I'm teaching this one gifted child, but music
01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:19.680
student, it takes a village to raise one student.
01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:22.619
It's not just one piano lesson or one aspect
01:18:22.619 --> 01:18:25.960
of things. It just takes so much. But in order
01:18:25.960 --> 01:18:29.159
for this child to grow up, to be a good musician
01:18:29.159 --> 01:18:32.159
great musician you have to have theory this and
01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:36.539
that so i have to outsource this student to different
01:18:36.539 --> 01:18:41.020
teachers because it's not in the system you know
01:18:41.020 --> 01:18:46.779
what i mean so which means only the privileged
01:18:46.779 --> 01:18:54.960
can have the access to things or it costs also
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:58.359
right so I don't want to complain too much, but...
01:18:58.359 --> 01:19:02.079
But there is something special in Poland like
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:04.380
this because music education is a very important
01:19:04.380 --> 01:19:08.619
part of the educational system. Absolutely. Yeah,
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:12.579
but I must say it's just this musical little
01:19:12.579 --> 01:19:18.979
tiny island because the rest of the whole nation
01:19:18.979 --> 01:19:25.140
is absolutely not, let's say... like this not
01:19:25.140 --> 01:19:29.180
interested in artistic music yeah it's it's not
01:19:29.180 --> 01:19:32.640
it's the whole world is like this it's like this
01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:35.159
everywhere yeah yeah but teaching is fun teaching
01:19:35.159 --> 01:19:38.680
is really nice and and this is funny because
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:42.239
yes indeed i'm teaching i have been teaching
01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:45.479
for ages now if i think about this it's it's
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:48.199
a very long time but i still have the feeling
01:19:48.199 --> 01:19:50.720
that it's the beginning and that i'm starting
01:19:52.350 --> 01:20:02.430
I really can't feel all these years. So I think
01:20:02.430 --> 01:20:07.170
the more I teach, the more I like it. Because
01:20:07.170 --> 01:20:10.649
at the very beginning, sometimes maybe there
01:20:10.649 --> 01:20:14.130
was a bit of frustration. I wanted to achieve
01:20:14.130 --> 01:20:19.930
something quickly. I was hoping to teach everyone
01:20:19.930 --> 01:20:24.170
everything. It's impossible. It's impossible.
01:20:24.369 --> 01:20:28.510
And now maybe the expectations are different.
01:20:29.170 --> 01:20:33.949
My expectations are different. And I can enjoy
01:20:33.949 --> 01:20:37.770
the process itself. Not the result, but the process
01:20:37.770 --> 01:20:40.750
is nice. Even if the lesson is difficult, even
01:20:40.750 --> 01:20:45.109
if someone plays really, let's say, it's a poor
01:20:45.109 --> 01:20:48.970
level or something like this. The process is
01:20:48.970 --> 01:20:54.739
interesting. finding solutions or trying to understand
01:20:54.739 --> 01:20:59.159
the student or trying to find the way to reach
01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:04.119
him somehow him or her so this is this is really
01:21:04.119 --> 01:21:10.500
an interesting job nice job yes although it could
01:21:10.500 --> 01:21:12.979
be really difficult sometimes it is a wonderful
01:21:12.979 --> 01:21:18.239
job yes but it's like jared it's a pure pleasure
01:21:19.410 --> 01:21:21.750
Oh, that's good to hear. I'm glad one always
01:21:21.750 --> 01:21:24.210
thinks, you know, I drove myself really hard.
01:21:24.289 --> 01:21:27.850
Like I worked a lot and practice a lot. And I
01:21:27.850 --> 01:21:30.409
now I teach a lot and I have a lot of empathy
01:21:30.409 --> 01:21:35.590
for other teachers. And you realize how much
01:21:35.590 --> 01:21:38.890
work goes into understanding a student when especially
01:21:38.890 --> 01:21:41.829
if the level is not what you want to be working
01:21:41.829 --> 01:21:43.789
with. Like and you ask yourself, how am I going
01:21:43.789 --> 01:21:46.250
to reach them? How am I going to make sure they
01:21:46.250 --> 01:21:48.979
get something out of this? I think to teach really
01:21:48.979 --> 01:21:50.479
well, you have to be able to come out of your
01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:55.539
skin somehow and live for the other person. The
01:21:55.539 --> 01:22:00.760
reason is the most important thing. So when does
01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:03.579
this teacher and student become the collaboration?
01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:07.979
I actually really want to know the answer to
01:22:07.979 --> 01:22:10.880
that because I met Anna when I was much younger
01:22:10.880 --> 01:22:13.409
and looked at her as... huge larger than life
01:22:13.409 --> 01:22:15.890
figure of contemporary music and now I'm playing
01:22:15.890 --> 01:22:19.109
an album with her it's a huge change for me so
01:22:19.109 --> 01:22:21.829
I'd love to know what tipped the scales in my
01:22:21.829 --> 01:22:26.069
favor on this one I think it came very naturally
01:22:26.069 --> 01:22:28.890
it came out very naturally and we just started
01:22:28.890 --> 01:22:31.350
playing together and he goes yeah first we had
01:22:31.350 --> 01:22:34.850
some fun playing this Brahms and some we played
01:22:34.850 --> 01:22:37.899
not only Brahms what did we play together Brahms,
01:22:37.899 --> 01:22:39.359
Beethoven, Mozart, and Rachmaninoff. Brahms,
01:22:39.359 --> 01:22:42.880
Beethoven, of course, E flat major, yeah. Yeah.
01:22:43.340 --> 01:22:46.460
Fifth, Beethoven, of course, that was the first
01:22:46.460 --> 01:22:49.000
one, D minor, Mozart, and later Brahms for your
01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:53.920
graduation. Yeah, and in first year was the Rachmaninoff
01:22:53.920 --> 01:22:57.600
second. At the very beginning. That's right,
01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:00.779
yeah. So we already knew something about each
01:23:00.779 --> 01:23:02.680
other's playing, but I never would have considered
01:23:02.680 --> 01:23:05.619
that this album, for example, would develop this
01:23:05.619 --> 01:23:08.060
way. Again, I'm very grateful and very lucky.
01:23:08.420 --> 01:23:11.619
But yes, it developed over this five years. And
01:23:11.619 --> 01:23:14.100
then I did my doctorate on Goretzky. I was writing
01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:17.239
on this. And then it became a more intensive
01:23:17.239 --> 01:23:20.000
focus on just this composer for quite a few years.
01:23:20.420 --> 01:23:23.779
It's amazing that the teacher -student becomes
01:23:23.779 --> 01:23:28.500
this collaborator and then playing Anna's father's.
01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:33.039
pieces and uh so and then which became this beautiful
01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:36.619
album and you're publishing the book and all
01:23:36.619 --> 01:23:41.439
just coming all to a circle right yeah yeah that's
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:45.380
sort of a circle yes that's right cool yeah isn't
01:23:45.380 --> 01:23:49.000
that what teaching is all about i think so yes
01:23:49.000 --> 01:23:53.239
you're right yeah yeah well we are almost coming
01:23:53.239 --> 01:23:58.439
to our end of our discussion but um Jared, moving
01:23:58.439 --> 01:24:00.960
to Poland completely changed the trajectory of
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:05.460
your career in a most wonderful way that you
01:24:05.460 --> 01:24:07.659
couldn't even imagine at the beginning, right?
01:24:07.939 --> 01:24:11.500
I'm sure. But so what advice would you give to
01:24:11.500 --> 01:24:14.359
young musicians about stepping outside their
01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:18.460
comfort zones and embracing artistic risks, for
01:24:18.460 --> 01:24:23.060
example? It's where all the fun really is and
01:24:23.060 --> 01:24:26.659
all the adventure of life is there. I never would
01:24:26.659 --> 01:24:28.479
have dreamed of this conversation. If you told
01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:32.520
me the day after I heard the recording of Piano
01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:35.800
Concerto by Gretzky the first time, someday you'll
01:24:35.800 --> 01:24:38.479
be sitting with the composer's daughter after
01:24:38.479 --> 01:24:40.619
you made an album with her talking like friends
01:24:40.619 --> 01:24:43.600
and artistic colleagues, I would think the person
01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:46.140
was on some very strange drug. And that's not
01:24:46.140 --> 01:24:47.960
possible for a little child living in Niagara
01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:51.380
Falls, Canada. It's not an artistic mecca. And
01:24:51.380 --> 01:24:54.180
I never would dream of this in my wildest dreams.
01:24:54.859 --> 01:24:57.920
when the choices come up that you can feel life
01:24:57.920 --> 01:24:59.640
is really calling you in a certain direction.
01:24:59.659 --> 01:25:03.619
And it's because it's unexpected. I mean, provided
01:25:03.619 --> 01:25:07.760
it's safe, take the risk. Because I never would
01:25:07.760 --> 01:25:09.800
have dreamed of this conversation. And yet it's
01:25:09.800 --> 01:25:12.779
now something that defines my artistic life.
01:25:12.899 --> 01:25:16.359
And I really think to focus on something this.
01:25:17.340 --> 01:25:19.699
closely and with this degree of specialization
01:25:19.699 --> 01:25:22.520
on one composer to learn the language, to meet
01:25:22.520 --> 01:25:24.939
the family, to discover new pieces of music,
01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:27.819
and then to get to record it for a good label
01:25:27.819 --> 01:25:30.399
with a really great artist you get to work with.
01:25:31.300 --> 01:25:34.800
This cannot happen without those risks. It's
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:37.539
just not part of the normal narrative of life.
01:25:37.939 --> 01:25:40.539
As Anna said a little bit ago, it's hard to imagine
01:25:40.539 --> 01:25:42.520
why someone would move to Katowice and uproot
01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:45.520
their whole life from living in New York. where
01:25:45.520 --> 01:25:47.199
you're going in a certain direction with a certain
01:25:47.199 --> 01:25:49.500
group of people maybe katowice is not exactly
01:25:49.500 --> 01:25:51.380
the city everyone thinks you're going to go there
01:25:51.380 --> 01:25:54.439
in order to build your life but i kind of looking
01:25:54.439 --> 01:25:57.000
back on it and now based on where i'm at i love
01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:00.579
that it works this way um that the city that
01:26:00.579 --> 01:26:02.319
i'd heard so much about because of zimmerman
01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:04.939
because of gretzky because of very very famous
01:26:04.939 --> 01:26:08.840
polish school of composition um came from the
01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:11.560
katowice academy I wouldn't have known that that
01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:14.100
was possible unless I had opened my mind to a
01:26:14.100 --> 01:26:17.100
new narrative and a new way of thinking about
01:26:17.100 --> 01:26:20.159
how my life could work. Incidentally, how did
01:26:20.159 --> 01:26:22.159
this interview come about? My fiancé wrote to
01:26:22.159 --> 01:26:24.840
you, and he's from Bielsko -Biała, which is near
01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:26.960
Katowice, and he was the one driving us from
01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:29.300
Montreal to the recording studio in Domaine Fonger
01:26:29.300 --> 01:26:32.359
a few hours from here. And he was just so interested
01:26:32.359 --> 01:26:34.949
to hear this conversation happen that... he Patrick
01:26:34.949 --> 01:26:38.930
wrote to you, right? So I mentioned this often,
01:26:39.010 --> 01:26:40.770
of course, and I know it's not precisely connected.
01:26:40.949 --> 01:26:42.930
But if I hadn't moved to Poland, I wouldn't have
01:26:42.930 --> 01:26:44.729
found the love of my life. I know I wouldn't
01:26:44.729 --> 01:26:47.930
have because that's where he was. So if it wasn't
01:26:47.930 --> 01:26:52.430
for Anna's invitation, there's a lot of my life
01:26:52.430 --> 01:26:53.869
that wouldn't look the way it looks now. And
01:26:53.869 --> 01:26:57.430
I would be not probably half as happy or as fulfilled.
01:26:57.930 --> 01:27:00.310
And so when you take those risks, your whole
01:27:00.310 --> 01:27:05.039
life goes with you. And when you I mean, I couldn't
01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:07.119
have known just how wonderful and generous a
01:27:07.119 --> 01:27:09.100
person Anna is until getting to know her over
01:27:09.100 --> 01:27:10.979
a long, long time. This didn't happen overnight.
01:27:11.340 --> 01:27:14.479
But I'm very lucky because finding colleagues
01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:17.279
like this doesn't happen every day. And when
01:27:17.279 --> 01:27:21.079
you get them, and this is true of every one of
01:27:21.079 --> 01:27:24.140
my most important musical mentors and now colleagues,
01:27:24.300 --> 01:27:26.539
they seem to stick for life. They appreciate
01:27:26.539 --> 01:27:28.939
loyalty. They appreciate skills. They appreciate
01:27:28.939 --> 01:27:32.779
a good... human connection as well so don't be
01:27:32.779 --> 01:27:36.000
afraid of doing this when it's like a huge risk
01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:38.760
-taking scary seeming decision it can be the
01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:41.880
thing that makes your life really happen and
01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:44.939
also it really speaks volume about your dedication
01:27:44.939 --> 01:27:49.500
hard work jared and your talent as well right
01:27:49.500 --> 01:27:53.279
so not a lot of people want to use the word talent
01:27:53.279 --> 01:27:56.529
but it's true right I think it's not possible
01:27:56.529 --> 01:27:59.170
without having some need. I needed to do this.
01:27:59.229 --> 01:28:01.289
The minute the opportunity came, I knew I have
01:28:01.289 --> 01:28:06.310
to do it. And then Anna, so similar question,
01:28:06.350 --> 01:28:09.210
what advice do you have for students, young students
01:28:09.210 --> 01:28:12.649
who want to embrace, well, tradition and innovation,
01:28:12.729 --> 01:28:15.850
because you are also an advocate for contemporary
01:28:15.850 --> 01:28:21.890
music. I think everything is combined. So the
01:28:21.890 --> 01:28:25.140
problem of performing. contemporary music is
01:28:25.140 --> 01:28:29.100
combined with goals that young people can have.
01:28:29.640 --> 01:28:33.979
And sometimes a lot of disappointment or hopes,
01:28:34.220 --> 01:28:41.199
ruined hopes, come from, I don't know, maybe
01:28:41.199 --> 01:28:47.180
ambitions, maybe not realistic plans. I don't
01:28:47.180 --> 01:28:50.199
know. A lot of people come and say they want
01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:53.680
to participate in the biggest competitions. of
01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:55.699
course, in Chopin competitions and so on and
01:28:55.699 --> 01:29:01.399
so on. And if we talk more, if I ask why, what
01:29:01.399 --> 01:29:06.960
is the deepest reason, it comes out that maybe
01:29:06.960 --> 01:29:12.720
that's not the best way to choose. So I think
01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:16.979
that simple answers are the best answers. So
01:29:16.979 --> 01:29:21.680
I think if a young person really wants to be
01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:26.640
a musician, So the only advice is try to be the
01:29:26.640 --> 01:29:29.579
best possible musician and try to be the best
01:29:29.579 --> 01:29:33.399
possible person because life and music is connected.
01:29:33.579 --> 01:29:38.500
You can't divide it and you can't be a perfect
01:29:38.500 --> 01:29:44.359
musician and not to be a decent human being,
01:29:44.539 --> 01:29:48.000
I think. Maybe there are some exceptions, I don't
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:53.199
know. But I don't think so. So that means try
01:29:53.199 --> 01:29:57.600
to know all about your art, try to just work
01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:03.380
hard and smart and try to build as many connections
01:30:03.380 --> 01:30:07.180
with other people, other musicians, not in terms
01:30:07.180 --> 01:30:10.020
of career, of course, that's also important,
01:30:10.260 --> 01:30:17.199
but in terms of self -development, of self -consciousness,
01:30:17.199 --> 01:30:24.600
of some, I don't know. a reasonable insight into
01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:30.460
the whole process so yeah I don't know if it's
01:30:30.460 --> 01:30:35.300
a wise choice now to start this musical education
01:30:35.300 --> 01:30:38.539
and to start this professional career I don't
01:30:38.539 --> 01:30:42.439
know the world is changing and who knows what
01:30:42.439 --> 01:30:47.500
will happen who knows if what will happen in
01:30:47.500 --> 01:30:55.260
five months even five days in five days even
01:30:55.260 --> 01:30:58.600
looking into our musical bubble little bubble
01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:01.760
so yeah this musical artistic bubble is very
01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:05.199
small and there are even smaller bubbles with
01:31:05.199 --> 01:31:11.500
contemporary music so these tiny tiny tiny bubbles
01:31:11.500 --> 01:31:16.539
that are the whole world for us they almost they
01:31:16.539 --> 01:31:20.850
almost don't exist in the world yeah so We are
01:31:20.850 --> 01:31:23.489
somehow blessed, somehow happy that we have this
01:31:23.489 --> 01:31:33.130
very special work and special time and love.
01:31:33.770 --> 01:31:40.750
We do something we really love. But I would be
01:31:40.750 --> 01:31:44.590
in trouble if a young person asked me what to
01:31:44.590 --> 01:31:49.920
do, what to choose. I don't know. nowadays it's
01:31:49.920 --> 01:31:52.260
difficult to give this advice because it is connected
01:31:52.260 --> 01:31:55.739
um with real life it's not people often ask this
01:31:55.739 --> 01:31:58.100
of professors and we tell them you know what
01:31:58.100 --> 01:32:00.479
about your real life though because it's no longer
01:32:00.479 --> 01:32:02.760
just a simple narration go do this competition
01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:06.399
get that agent years ago it was much easier to
01:32:06.399 --> 01:32:09.420
say okay just go practice learn new pieces go
01:32:09.420 --> 01:32:12.739
for a competition find a nice teacher yeah everything
01:32:12.739 --> 01:32:16.239
will be okay but now it's much more complicated
01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:20.199
i think so um This kind of conversation we're
01:32:20.199 --> 01:32:22.920
having now is amazing to think about. It's happened
01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:28.760
over the last 12 years. It evolves much slower
01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:31.640
than it looks. We go to conservatories and we're
01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:34.260
told how to compete and how to get as fast as
01:32:34.260 --> 01:32:36.560
possible to the highest level. But real life
01:32:36.560 --> 01:32:39.159
doesn't happen this way. It takes time to develop
01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:42.920
this kind of thing. And this is very important
01:32:42.920 --> 01:32:45.619
for young students to remember. It will not come
01:32:45.619 --> 01:32:47.699
as fast as you can scroll for it on your phone.
01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:50.760
And it doesn't look like what you scroll and
01:32:50.760 --> 01:32:53.380
see on your phone when it does happen. The reality
01:32:53.380 --> 01:32:56.359
is somewhat different. And the reality is that
01:32:56.359 --> 01:32:59.420
you can be very gifted, very talented. You can
01:32:59.420 --> 01:33:03.699
work hard. You can achieve a lot in terms of
01:33:03.699 --> 01:33:08.000
development, repertoire. And there is absolutely
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:11.159
no guarantee you will succeed in a competition.
01:33:11.859 --> 01:33:15.399
Absolutely. It's a lottery, no? It's a lottery.
01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:17.520
There is no guarantee you will have a career.
01:33:18.779 --> 01:33:23.920
So the only answer is do what you love and try
01:33:23.920 --> 01:33:26.920
to organize your life in the best possible way.
01:33:27.479 --> 01:33:31.960
But don't imagine you'll be the second, I don't
01:33:31.960 --> 01:33:34.420
know, Yoon Chan Lim or something like this, because
01:33:34.420 --> 01:33:41.289
it's not possible. And when you focus your time
01:33:41.289 --> 01:33:43.409
after you know that and accept that's the reality,
01:33:43.630 --> 01:33:46.869
you find real art that you love and it fulfills
01:33:46.869 --> 01:33:49.289
you more. It's your way. That means it's real.
01:33:49.770 --> 01:33:55.010
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It takes time and takes
01:33:55.010 --> 01:33:58.550
a lot of, but, you know, active work, but at
01:33:58.550 --> 01:34:01.590
the same time, reflection too. But yeah, finding
01:34:01.590 --> 01:34:04.550
your own way is the best way. Just being true
01:34:04.550 --> 01:34:06.970
to yourself and listening to your own voice.
01:34:07.029 --> 01:34:10.140
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been
01:34:10.140 --> 01:34:13.500
a really wonderful conversation. Just flowed
01:34:13.500 --> 01:34:16.600
so much. So, so, so well. So before I let you
01:34:16.600 --> 01:34:22.840
go, Jared, would you take over and promote your
01:34:22.840 --> 01:34:26.460
upcoming or already released album plus the book
01:34:26.460 --> 01:34:31.369
and anything else? Well, first of all, I want
01:34:31.369 --> 01:34:34.229
to thank very much Atmo Classique and the sponsors
01:34:34.229 --> 01:34:36.550
that we've had and the Canadian Arts Council
01:34:36.550 --> 01:34:39.649
for putting their faith in us to play this album
01:34:39.649 --> 01:34:42.949
and giving us so many wonderful opportunities
01:34:42.949 --> 01:34:46.310
vis -à -vis performing in good hall on good pianos
01:34:46.310 --> 01:34:50.489
with a wonderful engineer and for their process
01:34:50.489 --> 01:34:52.670
of releasing it responsibly and letting us have
01:34:52.670 --> 01:34:55.550
artistic control of the content. That's great.
01:34:55.649 --> 01:34:57.880
We've been followed up with... frequently about
01:34:57.880 --> 01:35:00.140
how we want things to sound on the final version
01:35:00.140 --> 01:35:04.680
so this album really does I feel represent what
01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:07.939
we wanted and it's not always the case when you
01:35:07.939 --> 01:35:09.579
do an album you get what you want out of it but
01:35:09.579 --> 01:35:11.819
I feel it is a good representation a fair one
01:35:11.819 --> 01:35:15.079
of Goretzky's music and it's been exciting to
01:35:15.079 --> 01:35:17.319
play it and I hope everybody listening to it
01:35:17.319 --> 01:35:19.779
enjoys being brought into the world of Goretzky's
01:35:19.779 --> 01:35:23.640
piano music because this is something that It's
01:35:23.640 --> 01:35:25.840
very enriching and very beautiful to listen to,
01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:28.100
and it provokes new ideas like we were talking
01:35:28.100 --> 01:35:30.279
about in the chamber music, the two piano music.
01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:34.619
And then my upcoming book is called Gretzky's
01:35:34.619 --> 01:35:37.659
Solo Piano Music, and it is published by Roman
01:35:37.659 --> 01:35:40.439
and Littlefield slash Bloomsbury Press. It's
01:35:40.439 --> 01:35:43.479
coming out in a couple of months. And that is
01:35:43.479 --> 01:35:46.880
on all the solo piano music, a commentary on
01:35:46.880 --> 01:35:50.000
the sources and translation of Polish primary
01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:52.819
sources about Gretzky's music. And I feel that
01:35:52.819 --> 01:35:56.239
it will really add something new to the research
01:35:56.239 --> 01:35:59.000
landscape about Goretzky, his music, and piano
01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:02.340
literature in general of the 20th century. So
01:36:02.340 --> 01:36:04.699
thank you very much, Yukimi, for giving us the
01:36:04.699 --> 01:36:07.500
opportunity to speak with you today about our
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:10.880
work, about Goretzky, and for sharing with your
01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:13.560
audience all the work that we've been doing.
01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:16.659
It's a great pleasure and an honor. Thank you.
01:36:16.659 --> 01:36:20.220
Thank you for joining. That wraps up this episode
01:36:20.220 --> 01:36:23.239
of The Pianopod. A heartfelt thanks to you, Anna
01:36:23.239 --> 01:36:26.199
and Jared, for joining us today and sharing your
01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:28.460
incredible stories and insights and expertise
01:36:28.460 --> 01:36:34.159
with such joyful and authentic vibes. So to our
01:36:34.159 --> 01:36:36.060
wonderful audience, you can learn more about
01:36:36.060 --> 01:36:38.939
Jared and his work by visiting his website at
01:36:38.939 --> 01:36:43.939
jareddunn .com. It's all in one word. And to
01:36:43.939 --> 01:36:50.129
learn more, Anna Goretzka, please visit gretzka
01:36:50.129 --> 01:36:53.470
.pl and please start listening to their newly
01:36:53.470 --> 01:36:56.989
released album gretzky's world of piano on all
01:36:56.989 --> 01:36:59.449
streaming services and of course thank you to
01:36:59.449 --> 01:37:02.729
our wonderful listeners and for for tuning in
01:37:02.729 --> 01:37:04.789
if you enjoyed today's episode please give it
01:37:04.789 --> 01:37:07.069
a thumbs up and subscribe to the piano pod on
01:37:07.069 --> 01:37:09.409
youtube and don't forget to share and review
01:37:09.409 --> 01:37:11.710
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01:37:11.710 --> 01:37:14.510
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01:37:14.510 --> 01:37:17.319
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01:37:17.319 --> 01:37:20.800
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01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:24.140
the next episode of the PianoPod. Thank you and
01:37:24.140 --> 01:37:26.260
bye everyone. Thank you so much. Thank you.