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00:00:18.160Welcome everyone to another episode of the Nearshore Cafe Podcast.
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00:00:20.239I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
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00:00:29.760And if you're interested in fintech, near shoring, how the whole intersection collides, this is going to be the episode for you.
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00:00:37.759We have Augustine Guerra from Vangwi, a really interesting company that is in the fintech ecosystem.
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00:00:49.119Before we say hello to Augustine, let me thank our sponsor, Plug Technologies, plugg.tech, a great way to connect talent from all over Latin America with U.S.
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00:00:49.679companies.
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00:00:51.359Augustine, so great to have you.
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00:00:52.560Thank you very much, Brian.
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00:00:53.359It's a pleasure.
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00:00:54.880Thank you very much for having me today.
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00:00:55.439Absolutely.
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00:00:57.200Augustine, where are you dialing in from?
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00:00:59.840Right now I'm back home in Montevideo, Uruguay.
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00:01:07.200I came back for the holidays to visit family, but usually I'm based out of a combination of London and the Netherlands coming back and forth.
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00:01:10.239Yeah, that's an interesting place to start in itself.
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00:01:14.400You know, there's not a lot of people that are going back and forth and in those countries.
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00:01:16.560How did that happen for you?
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00:01:18.079It's a very long story.
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00:01:20.480I first left Uruguay 10 years ago.
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00:01:23.439I was fresh, I was still in college actually, actually.
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00:01:30.159And I started, I landed this job in the local, uh, which is a Uruguay-based uh cross-border payments platform.
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00:01:40.799And basically what happened is after working there for a year, they were opening uh an office in China, in Shanghai, China, and they were looking for a couple of young people willing to go and try.
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00:01:42.159And I said, yes, why not?
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00:01:44.799That's a bit of my attitude with everything in life.
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00:01:45.760Yes, why not?
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00:01:48.640And 10 years ago I moved to China working for the local.
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00:01:54.560And there are a couple of years uh when you live abroad for the first time, that opens your your mind, right?
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00:01:57.040The whole the whole world opens for you.
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00:01:58.480I spent a couple of years there.
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00:02:03.840In total, in the local, I was for about four years, covering different areas.
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00:02:09.759And then after spending a couple of years in China, I wanted to change the scene a bit and I moved to Germany.
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00:02:11.680Uh, I spent in Germany a couple of years.
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00:02:18.639I spent another year in Poland, and then uh it was when being a digital nomad became started to become trendy.
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00:02:18.879Yeah.
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00:02:24.719I spent a couple of years traveling around while uh I was uh we were building Vanguy.
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00:02:27.199Uh and then at some point I needed to settle down.
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00:02:29.520I was too much traveling, I was uh getting older.
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00:02:39.360So that's I was looking for a place to do it, and uh London was the first, uh, the place that I chose the first, and then I just started to be around uh London and the Netherlands.
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00:02:39.840Yeah.
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00:02:52.159Well, I have a lot of questions, but I think you know, for those that are familiar with Latin America, you know, familiar, especially with countries like Uruguay, Argentina, you know, there's a lot of European influence.
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00:03:03.039So it's one thing to, you know, I think go back and forth to a country like Germany where there's some German influence or Spain, Italy, but China is a whole other world.
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00:03:12.240Tell us just about like the culture clash and maybe also there's similarities that maybe we're not thinking about, you know, and people are people.
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00:03:16.400You know, what was that like as someone from Uruguay in Shanghai?
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00:03:18.719I still have this very clear memory.
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00:03:22.800Uh, the first time I went there, I actually went for a couple of weeks for one project.
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00:03:25.199This was before the decision was made to move there.
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00:03:30.000So I have this very clear picture of me leaving the hotel lobby for the first time.
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00:03:34.080It was I went to Guangzhou, which is in the south, for those first two weeks.
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00:03:36.560I have this very clear memory of where am I.
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00:03:39.280Um everything is very, very different.
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00:03:41.919Food, culture, people, how business is made.
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00:03:49.680Um, um, it was the first time not leaving the country, but the first time doing something meaningful outside of the country besides just traveling.
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00:03:52.080So there was a cultural shock with everything.
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00:03:57.759Food, people, transportation, the language as well, especially Chinese, a place where English is not that common.
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00:04:03.199It's a place where you really need to learn at the at least the basics of uh mandarin to get around.
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00:04:06.960So, yes, it it was not that easy, but I mean it's part of the process, right?
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00:04:07.680Yeah, yeah.
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00:04:15.280I mean, starting with architecture, you know, Montevideo has these kind of like beautiful traditional, you know, uh buildings.
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00:04:20.959From my my memory, correct me if I'm wrong, but not a lot of like giant skyscrapers, you know.
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00:04:24.160Yeah, yeah, and then you go there, yeah.
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00:04:28.399Yes, Uruguay has a lot of influence mainly from Spain and Italy.
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00:04:35.040The people come from Spain and Italy, Italy, and then the architecture is mainly Spanish, so we don't have a single skyscraper in the country.
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00:04:38.560Yeah, we have a couple of what we consider tall buildings, but they are not really.
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00:04:43.439Imagine Paris or or Madrid.
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00:04:45.360Also, Buenos Aires is very similar.
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00:04:50.720So I know that a lot of people have been to Buenos Aires, but not Montevideo is not is a less popular place.
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00:04:54.240So imagine a smaller version of Buenos Aires when it comes to architecture.
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00:04:55.839Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
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00:05:01.920And then even Buenos Aires, you know, one of the oldest uh subway systems and you know rail systems.
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00:05:12.720Um, and then you step into a place like China where it seems like everything was built yesterday, you know, like robots and you know, uh super high speed and infrastructure.
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00:05:14.879Were your what were some of your first impressions?
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00:05:15.839So many things.
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00:05:22.720Coming from a country, Uruguay, where we don't have a subway system, our transportation works, but it's not the most modern.
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00:05:25.600Everything works in China when it comes to infrastructure.
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00:05:28.319It's very, very well done, it's very well planned as well.
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00:05:35.600Also, when it comes, now speaking about FinTech, when I went there for the first time, they have been already using digital wallets for a very long time.
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00:05:40.639And back in 2018, when when this was happening, it was not popular in the rest of the world.
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00:05:43.199So it was uh a paradigm change.
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00:05:47.439How they pay, how how they move money around, they were already not using cash almost.
00:05:47.519 -->
00:05:50.000It was a cashless society paying with their phones.
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00:05:51.519Yeah, it was a big change.
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00:05:52.000Yeah.
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00:06:06.720I definitely want to get into the fintech in a second, but you know, I often think of like Steve Jobs, you know, who uh when you think about like uh typography like typography and you know, he took all these interesting classes and they all came together.
00:06:06.879 -->
00:06:21.279And for a fintech founder like yourself, you know, who's had exposure to Asia, Europe, how did how did all that maybe shape your perspective and vision as a founder?
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00:06:22.079Massively.
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00:06:32.959The fact that when you expose yourself to different cultures, different people, you learn how they think, you learn how they like to do things, you learn how comfortable they are doing certain things.
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00:06:40.160So then when you're on the other end, when you're trying to approach them, when you're trying to work with them, it changes a lot if you understand them.
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00:06:48.480Uh so that's something I'm very thankful for actually, that I had the opportunity to go very young across Asia, Europe, South America, North America.
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00:06:52.959And uh it's a lot of personal growth, but that also is applied to the professional life.
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00:06:53.439Yeah.
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00:07:02.000You know, and something you said, just like everything works, and uh a lot of our listeners have been to Argentina, some have been to Uruguay.
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00:07:09.600I was very impressed with Uruguay, and it felt like, wow, this is like the Switzerland of Latin America, you know, the banks work, everything works.
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00:07:18.160Meanwhile, you have these two, you know, loud, crazy neighbors in Brazil and Argentina, and there's always like a crisis, you know, every moment.
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00:07:25.439And, you know, I'm curious how, you know, maybe somebody from Argentina where you're just kind of used to stuff being in chaos.
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00:07:26.800It's almost normal.
00:07:26.959 -->
00:07:35.759And then you have, you know, obviously Uruguay is is much more stable, and then you have a place like China where like it's just the expectation that things work.
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00:07:38.000Can you talk about that a little bit more?
00:07:38.079 -->
00:07:42.560And you know, I'm not picking on Uruguay, but maybe maybe it's it's it's neighbors that I'm picking on.
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00:07:44.720Yeah, if you could talk about that.
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00:07:45.519Absolutely.
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00:07:49.120Actually, most of us will see it as a blessing, not as a curse.
00:07:49.360 -->
00:07:52.639We have this joke among Uruguayans that live abroad.
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00:08:00.319Whenever you come back home, once a year, once every two years, the joke is how is everything exactly the same as it was when I left?
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00:08:01.199Because it's true.
00:08:01.360 -->
00:08:04.879I've been uh I've been living abroad for the last 10 years and not much changed.
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00:08:06.879Every time I come back, I don't have to adapt.
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00:08:09.519Things are in the same place, everything is in the same place.
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00:08:11.360So we actually see it as a blessing.
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00:08:16.800Stability, especially nowadays where things are changing in not so good ways in a lot of places.
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00:08:18.560We are very happy with where we are.
00:08:18.720 -->
00:08:21.680We have very stable governments, they change, but they are all stable.
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00:08:22.879Very stable economy.
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00:08:26.959Maybe it's not the fastest growing one, but it's stable, uh, doesn't go down.
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00:08:31.439And then also you mentioned about uh banks, complete financial freedom.
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00:08:32.799You can do business from here.
00:08:32.879 -->
00:08:37.600That's why a lot of companies like ours and companies from abroad, they come to Uruguay to invest here.
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00:08:38.159Why?
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00:08:43.840Because uh we have good relationships with everyone, that's part of this being the Switzerland of South America.
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00:08:48.240We are in good system with everyone, and it's a very fair playing field.
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00:08:52.639If you come, you can do business, and yeah, it's going to be it's going to go very well.
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00:08:53.120Yeah.
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00:08:55.039I love that about Uruguay.
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00:09:04.399You know, as someone who started a business in Argentina, and you know, my attorney at the time was his expression was always like, you know, can we, you know, could we do this, Mariano?
00:09:04.480 -->
00:09:05.440Can we figure this out?
00:09:05.600 -->
00:09:08.320And his response is like, by the grace of God.
00:09:10.080 -->
00:09:18.080And the whole time I'm like, man, I should have started in Uruguay because it's like predictable, black and white, you know, the rules are clear.
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00:09:21.679Whereas Argentina it was by the grace of God, you know.
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00:09:32.399So um but anyway, tell us more about uh the fintech world, the ecosystem that you see in Latin America and abroad.
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00:09:40.799Yeah, uh so I believe that right now in Latin America, we already are past through the stage of early disruption.
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00:09:47.759Uh meaning over the last maybe 10 years, the first players in the market came and they built the rails, they built the core.
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00:09:54.320And nowadays we're actually seeing, and also a lot of our clients, we're actually seeing fintechs that are building on top of other fintechs.
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00:10:06.399So this second layer of fintechs where the core plumbing is already done, the rails are there, and now it leaves a lot more space to differentiation and innovation.
00:10:06.559 -->
00:10:06.799Why?
00:10:06.960 -->
00:10:14.080Because the effort that now you need to launch a new product is slower because you can already use the leverage of the first fintechs that were around.
00:10:14.240 -->
00:10:23.360So I do believe that in Latin America now we're we're on this stage where fintechs are being built on top of fintechs and they are trying to show something different or bring something new.
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00:10:32.399Yeah, I think that's an interesting point because that first level of fintechs was really disrupting things that traditional banks did fairly mediocre.
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00:10:39.919Um, do you see the second generation of fintechs uh disrupting what the first generation did or building on top of that?
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00:10:41.039How how might you see that?
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00:10:43.360I see it uh building on top of that.
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00:10:48.559I see the new fintech using what the first fintech created, which is very useful.
00:10:48.639 -->
00:10:53.840We need it, but the new fintechs are coming to build on top of that, meaning that both are equally as valid.
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00:10:59.840The rails are needed to the basic things, but now the new fintechs are bringing new products to the general public.
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00:11:00.559Interesting.
00:11:00.799 -->
00:11:05.279Tell me more about the Latin America consumer of some of these products.
00:11:05.440 -->
00:11:07.600You know, what are they expecting?
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00:11:09.360What are they what are they looking for?
00:11:09.679 -->
00:11:10.639That's a very good question.
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00:11:23.840So, not so long ago we were cash societies, um, and there has been a lot of disruption with the first layer of fintech in order to uh teach the general public how to do things in a more modern way.
00:11:24.000 -->
00:11:31.679So nowadays, the thing that uh I'm seeing the most over the last couple of years with fintechs in Latin America is mostly around investments.
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00:11:39.039While banking is already very popular, most of the countries are already highly bankarized, so almost everyone has a bank account.
00:11:39.200 -->
00:11:43.840There are neo banks that are around that make things slightly easier and they are growing.
00:11:44.000 -->
00:11:49.039But I think the thing that I've been seeing the most is when it comes to investments and wealth tech.
00:11:49.279 -->
00:11:55.519Because for a very long time, as Latin Americans, we thought that that was reserved for higher income countries.
00:11:56.240 -->
00:12:05.679We thought that we just need to survive and save a couple of dollars here and there to then take a massive loan, a massive mortgage on a house and spend the rest of our lives paying a mortgage, and that's it.
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00:12:08.000That was our our finances.
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00:12:15.840But now I'm seeing that there's a lot of new fintechs making it easier to the general public to invest and teaching the public how to invest.
00:12:16.320 -->
00:12:23.759Especially also when the pension systems of of our countries they are not so strong, so no one really knows what's going to happen in in the future.
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00:12:28.480So I think a lot of this disruption and new things I'm seeing around is mostly around uh investments.
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00:12:29.200Interesting.
00:12:29.360 -->
00:12:39.519You know, I think I read a stat the other day that um Americans from the states, about 50%, 5-0, own one single share of stock, you know.
00:12:39.600 -->
00:12:42.960So and that's just like the first level of public investing, right?
00:12:43.039 -->
00:12:48.559Like investing in Microsoft and mutual funds and relatively safe companies.
00:12:48.799 -->
00:12:54.639I don't know if I've ever uh looked into that in Latin America, or maybe we could talk about Uruguay specifically.
00:12:54.879 -->
00:12:55.919What does that look like today?
00:12:56.000 -->
00:13:02.080You know, that makes sense about uh the big investment was your house, your primary residence.
00:13:02.320 -->
00:13:03.279What does it look like today?
00:13:03.360 -->
00:13:09.039Is that you know 10% owner own a public company, 50%, you know, what does that look like?
00:13:09.360 -->
00:13:11.039It's even much lower than 10%.
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00:13:11.840Okay.
00:13:12.159 -->
00:13:13.279There are different reasons.
00:13:13.519 -->
00:13:19.519The first reason why it has been inaccessible for so long is because uh the barrier of entry was too high.
00:13:19.679 -->
00:13:26.080Meaning, in order, if you wanted to buy any stock in the US market, you need to perform an international Swift transfer.
00:13:26.159 -->
00:13:30.320And imagine that you have save$100 per month, which is normal here.
00:13:30.480 -->
00:13:37.120A lot of people say that or even less, then the SWIFT cost of the transfer is going to be almost what you wanted to invest.
00:13:37.360 -->
00:13:41.360So the entry barrier was super high, and it's still actually quite high.
00:13:41.440 -->
00:13:54.480And the fintechs nowadays, what they are trying to do is to bring that barrier lower, to make it easier to the general public to access, and also to teach the general public, uh, because people usually are quite risk adverse.
00:13:54.720 -->
00:13:57.840That's why they took mortgage mortgages on houses, right?
00:13:58.000 -->
00:13:58.559Um, yeah.
00:13:58.879 -->
00:13:59.120Yeah.
00:13:59.360 -->
00:14:04.320In a way, we're kind of talking about like a Robin Hood for Latin America.
00:14:04.639 -->
00:14:05.600Exactly.
00:14:05.919 -->
00:14:07.360Yeah, yeah, interesting.
00:14:07.679 -->
00:14:09.440Well, tell us more about uh Vangui.
00:14:09.600 -->
00:14:10.879What are you what are you building?
00:14:11.039 -->
00:14:13.279What's your vision and how far along?
00:14:13.919 -->
00:14:15.039Yeah, for sure.
00:14:15.200 -->
00:14:18.879Uh we co-founded the company five years ago, a bit over five years ago.
00:14:19.039 -->
00:14:23.440I started my career in the local in payments, and then I stayed in the fintech industry.
00:14:23.600 -->
00:14:27.279We're a team of four co-founders, and we all come from very similar backgrounds.
00:14:27.440 -->
00:14:35.039Um we got this opportunity, we saw this gap where in fintech it's actually more important to understand the business than the technical part.
00:14:35.120 -->
00:14:40.799Uh, because engineers, there's a lot of engineers everywhere, but engineers that understand fintech, not so many.
00:14:40.879 -->
00:14:53.840And if you're a company, a fintech company, and you need a team of five engineers to build something across a couple of months, and you need to hire a company and train those engineers to understand what you're building, that's really not efficient.
00:14:54.159 -->
00:14:58.320You're going to waste a lot of money and time from your team as well that you need to trade them.
00:14:58.480 -->
00:15:07.759So we saw this gap in to provide fintech companies with consulting and engineering and development power, and that's our mission.
00:15:08.000 -->
00:15:14.240We are a team of around 40 engineers, mostly based off of Montevideo, Uruguay, but also in Argentina.
00:15:14.480 -->
00:15:18.639We are a small market, so we we need to seek talent somewhere else.
00:15:18.799 -->
00:15:28.240And our mission is to help fintech companies, mostly payments and wealth tech, to be able to scale in an efficient way with engineers that they know what they are doing in the fintech area.
00:15:28.480 -->
00:15:28.720Yeah.
00:15:28.960 -->
00:15:30.240Where do you usually come in?
00:15:30.399 -->
00:15:35.919Is it like pre-MVP, post-MVP, after it's you know in a scaling stage?
00:15:36.240 -->
00:15:36.480Yeah.
00:15:36.559 -->
00:15:38.159So we have two types of clients.
00:15:38.480 -->
00:15:40.159The first one is pre-MVP.
00:15:40.320 -->
00:15:44.000It's basically a couple, three, four co-founders that they have an idea.
00:15:44.159 -->
00:15:47.120They're trying to raise the money or they already raised the money.
00:15:47.360 -->
00:15:49.360Um, they want to build an MVP.
00:15:49.440 -->
00:15:56.399It's usually much easier to go to seek help for that, not to have an internal team because the risks associated are super big.
00:15:56.559 -->
00:16:03.919So that's what one type of client, together with the discovery process, for them to understand what we are going to build, and then we spend some months building it.
00:16:04.080 -->
00:16:20.080And then the other one is companies that are scaling up, let's say from 100 to 500 employees, and they are actively hiring, but it's not easy to hire and it's not easy to train the people that you hire, because whenever you hire, that will take time away from your engineers to do the work to teach these people.
00:16:20.240 -->
00:16:25.200So in those cases, uh, we also can to help and boost the productivity of the engineering team.
00:16:25.440 -->
00:16:25.679Yeah.
00:16:25.919 -->
00:16:33.200Are you usually building, are you providing engineers on like a time and materials basis that just understand fintech?
00:16:33.440 -->
00:16:43.840Or you know, you'll give like a fixed bid price, you know, so maybe if there's other fintech founders that are listening, they kind of understand your pricing model.
00:16:44.159 -->
00:16:44.399Yeah.
00:16:44.559 -->
00:16:50.320Usually time and materials is the most flexible way to approach it, is the way that we prefer to approach.
00:16:50.720 -->
00:16:54.159And it's usually also the cheaper one for everyone.
00:16:54.399 -->
00:16:54.639Why?
00:16:54.799 -->
00:17:01.759Because when you're trying to build something from scratch, you really don't know, even though you go through a discovery process, things change and the market evolves.
00:17:01.919 -->
00:17:07.759And then if we come to a fixed price and things change, of course, we need to review the scope, and that takes time and energy.
00:17:07.920 -->
00:17:13.119So the way that we prefer to work is we still do a rough estimation of how much we think it's gonna take.
00:17:13.279 -->
00:17:21.759So we understand that a group of founders trying to build something, they are not going to say, yeah, let's go without even knowing if it's going to be the scale, the magnitude of how much you're going to spend.
00:17:21.839 -->
00:17:30.160So we still do a ballpark estimation for them to know how much roughly this will cost, but then we prefer to work in a times and materials scheme.
00:17:30.319 -->
00:17:35.519We can work on a fixed price if it's very concrete and the requirements are very clear.
00:17:35.680 -->
00:17:36.960We are doing that and it works.
00:17:37.039 -->
00:17:43.279Sometimes, especially when companies are scaling up, they want this very specific thing built and the requirements are very clear.
00:17:43.440 -->
00:17:45.680In that case, we can approach it with a fixed price.
00:17:45.759 -->
00:17:50.240But in most cases, times and materials is the best both for our clients and for us as well.
00:17:50.480 -->
00:17:50.720Yeah.
00:17:50.960 -->
00:17:54.160Tell us more about the uh the client location.
00:17:54.319 -->
00:17:56.319Are they mostly in the US?
00:17:56.559 -->
00:17:58.319Are they in Latin America?
00:17:58.480 -->
00:17:59.519You know, what percentages?
00:17:59.839 -->
00:18:05.200Help help us kind of do that, especially with this hot new fintech world in Latin America.
00:18:05.440 -->
00:18:05.759Yeah.
00:18:05.920 -->
00:18:06.160Yeah.
00:18:06.559 -->
00:18:12.640When we started the company, we thought that because of economy, clients in Latin America were not a good fit for us.
00:18:12.799 -->
00:18:13.279Uh why?
00:18:13.440 -->
00:18:17.839Because in our heads we thought, well, they can't hire you locally, so why are you going to come to us?
00:18:18.000 -->
00:18:20.880But we had come to the realization that that's not the case.
00:18:21.119 -->
00:18:22.559They still use our services.
00:18:22.720 -->
00:18:31.119Still, nowadays it's mostly 40% US, 40%, 35% US, 35% Europe, and then the rest Latin America.
00:18:31.200 -->
00:18:33.920So it's a combination of Europe, US.
00:18:34.079 -->
00:18:40.079When I say Europe, it's mostly the UK, uh, because in Europe, other countries they fair uh people that speak their own language.
00:18:40.160 -->
00:18:53.119Uh it's very strange for a German company to hire someone that doesn't speak German, or any country that the rest in Europe is mostly uh the UK, the US, and then I'll say a fifth uh of our clients come from Latin America.
00:18:53.359 -->
00:18:53.680Got it.
00:18:53.839 -->
00:18:54.240Interesting.
00:18:54.480 -->
00:19:01.680With the the US market, are you mostly working with New York and San Francisco companies, which is where there's the highest concentration?
00:19:01.920 -->
00:19:04.400Yeah, yeah, it's mostly San Francisco and New York.
00:19:04.640 -->
00:19:05.119That's correct.
00:19:05.359 -->
00:19:05.920Yeah, yeah.
00:19:06.079 -->
00:19:08.960And then the engineers you said are mostly in Montevideo.
00:19:09.200 -->
00:19:09.440Yes.
00:19:09.519 -->
00:19:15.839Uh I would say nowadays 80% of our engineers are in Montevideo, and the other 20% spread across Argentina.
00:19:16.000 -->
00:19:18.480Argentina is very big, so they are spread across.
00:19:18.640 -->
00:19:21.839The way we keep it this way, first of all, is time zones.
00:19:21.920 -->
00:19:26.559The time zone that we have in Argentina and in Uruguay is very, very good to work with the US.
00:19:26.799 -->
00:19:34.640We are just one hour away from Miami, a couple of hours away from New York, a couple more hours from the West Coast, but still is it's very manageable.
00:19:34.799 -->
00:19:40.000So, yes, our talent comes mainly from Uruguay, also significant part from Argentina.
00:19:40.240 -->
00:19:40.559Yeah.
00:19:40.720 -->
00:19:48.319I mean, hiring is so important, you know, to get that right and you know, especially to properly support your customers.
00:19:48.559 -->
00:19:55.440Tell us what you've learned, you know, about hiring, and then you know, maybe maybe maybe we'll start there and then we can dive deeper into the talent pocket.
00:19:55.680 -->
00:19:59.200Yeah, it has been a journey, a lot of learnings over these last five years.
00:19:59.359 -->
00:20:04.799Yes, hiring is a very big part of our business because in order to provide a good service, we need good engineers.
00:20:05.039 -->
00:20:09.680Of course, you can still do training, uh, you can, but it's very important to hire the right person.
00:20:09.920 -->
00:20:14.240So it has been a bit of trial and error, to be honest, over the last five five years.
00:20:14.400 -->
00:20:20.799What to ask, what not to ask, when to ask it, when to ask for a technical test, when not to ask for a technical test.
00:20:20.960 -->
00:20:26.400So it has been a lot of trial and error, but nowadays we we have a very good uh hiring team.
00:20:26.480 -->
00:20:29.519Um, we have a constant pipeline, so that's also very important.
00:20:29.599 -->
00:20:33.920It's not we don't go to look for someone when we need it for yesterday.
00:20:34.079 -->
00:20:36.880We are constantly updating our pipelines with new candidates.
00:20:36.960 -->
00:20:38.240We never stop interviewing.
00:20:38.400 -->
00:20:46.880So I think that's also something very important because sometimes the client wants to you meet with the client, everything goes well in two weeks, and they say, Well, we want to start tomorrow with a team of five people.
00:20:47.039 -->
00:20:53.440And if you don't have the bench of five people, hiring five people straight away, if you are at zero, it's super difficult.
00:20:53.599 -->
00:20:58.720So it's very important to be constantly updating your pipeline with new strong candidates.
00:20:58.960 -->
00:20:59.200Yeah.
00:20:59.440 -->
00:21:07.440What are some of the common technologies or tech stacks that you'd like uh the candidates you're talking to to have?
00:21:07.759 -->
00:21:12.720Yeah, I would say in fintech, we have seen two technologies as the main ones.
00:21:12.880 -->
00:21:19.359One company is that wants to start something a bit quicker and a bit more agile, it's usually anything around JavaScript, TypeScript, node.
00:21:19.440 -->
00:21:20.640That's something very, very popular.
00:21:20.720 -->
00:21:23.759It's the one that we actually prefer if we can choose a technology.
00:21:23.920 -->
00:21:27.519Also, on in already more established companies, uh, Java is also quite popular.
00:21:27.680 -->
00:21:28.640It's very robust.
00:21:28.880 -->
00:21:38.960So I would say we have been working with over 50 clients over the last five years, so we have seen a lot of different platforms, and a vast majority is divided between JavaScript and Java.
00:21:39.200 -->
00:21:39.359Yeah.
00:21:39.599 -->
00:21:47.680Now, Uruguay is certainly a great place for talent, but like you said, it's not nearly as big as Brazil and Argentina.
00:21:47.839 -->
00:21:52.640How do you how do you think about that as you recruit, you know, in Montevideo and outside?
00:21:52.960 -->
00:21:57.279Yeah, it's a very small market, a very talented and well-educated market.
00:21:57.440 -->
00:21:58.720Here education is free.
00:21:58.799 -->
00:22:04.319So a lot of people they go to university, they have degrees, they are very smart, but it's a very small market.
00:22:04.400 -->
00:22:05.519We are already three million people.
00:22:05.759 -->
00:22:07.519Argentina is 44 million people.
00:22:07.680 -->
00:22:10.640So so imagine uh the size difference.
00:22:10.799 -->
00:22:25.359So I think um at least our company, we started in in Uruguay, but then at one point we realized we want to keep hiring in Uruguay, but we have to hire as well in Argentina to do it both things in parallel, because yes, uh the the talent pocket here in Uruguay is quite small.
00:22:25.440 -->
00:22:26.960Uh we are not a big country.
00:22:27.119 -->
00:22:31.440So um Argentina also is very similar to us when it comes to culturally.
00:22:31.599 -->
00:22:36.000So basically, for Argentinians and Uruguayans, we can sit in the same room and it's like the same.
00:22:36.240 -->
00:22:37.519So that helps a lot as well.
00:22:37.759 -->
00:22:38.240Yeah, yeah.
00:22:38.319 -->
00:22:40.640There's nothing like passing a mate cup around.
00:22:41.039 -->
00:22:41.519Exactly.
00:22:41.680 -->
00:22:42.160Yeah.
00:22:42.400 -->
00:22:44.640Yeah, there's no no no replacement.
00:22:44.799 -->
00:22:45.839Um, how about hardware?
00:22:46.000 -->
00:22:53.759You know, I have memories of trying to smuggle, you know, MacBooks and all sorts of hardware into Argentina.
00:22:53.920 -->
00:22:55.119What's that like in Uruguay?
00:22:55.279 -->
00:22:57.200Do you is it easy to get what you need?
00:22:57.279 -->
00:23:00.240And maybe you could talk about the customs policies there.
00:23:00.559 -->
00:23:00.880Yeah.
00:23:01.039 -->
00:23:06.000Well, so first of all, it's easy to get what you need because the market here is very open.
00:23:06.079 -->
00:23:09.279You can import whatever you want, but it's extremely expensive.
00:23:09.440 -->
00:23:10.240Mainly two reasons.
00:23:10.400 -->
00:23:11.359One of them is taxes.
00:23:11.680 -->
00:23:13.839There is a lot of taxes whenever you import something.
00:23:14.000 -->
00:23:21.599And also when you're a smaller market and you're importing just for your country, of course, it's more expensive to import a smaller volume of things.
00:23:21.680 -->
00:23:23.279So that makes things more expensive.
00:23:23.599 -->
00:23:29.359On one hand, you can get almost anything you want, but on the other hand, everything is quite expensive, especially technology.
00:23:29.440 -->
00:23:32.079Uh but yes, there's no really workaround around that.
00:23:32.160 -->
00:23:36.000Maybe if you're starting, you can fly to the US and bring a couple of computers.
00:23:36.079 -->
00:23:36.480That's good.
00:23:36.559 -->
00:23:42.000But once you're an established company and you need to buy three, four computers per month, you need to do it the right way.
00:23:42.079 -->
00:23:43.920Uh and you just need to bite the bullets.
00:23:44.000 -->
00:23:44.960There's no way around it.
00:23:45.119 -->
00:23:45.519Yeah.
00:23:45.680 -->
00:23:46.000Yeah.
00:23:46.319 -->
00:23:53.680You know, uh, a lot of my experience is going to be Argentina driven, but um I remember credit wasn't really a thing that existed.
00:23:53.759 -->
00:23:56.880You know, I couldn't buy 10 laptops on credit.
00:23:57.039 -->
00:23:59.200It's all due, you know, right away.
00:23:59.359 -->
00:24:00.319How about Uruguay?
00:24:00.480 -->
00:24:04.480Is that does credit kind of exist, you know, in business-to-business transactions?
00:24:04.640 -->
00:24:07.119Could you get it now and pay in 30 days?
00:24:07.519 -->
00:24:10.160Well, there's a couple of ways you can do it nowadays.
00:24:10.319 -->
00:24:15.359Here we have had uh installments with credit cards for a very long time, no interest installments.
00:24:15.519 -->
00:24:22.079So almost anything that you buy, if you buy with a Uruguayan credit card in a Uruguayan store, you can pay it for up to six installments.
00:24:22.240 -->
00:24:23.279So that's very handy.
00:24:23.440 -->
00:24:30.240And then, yes, there are business credit lines that come from banks, but with not the best interest rates, if I have to be honest.
00:24:30.400 -->
00:24:36.720So they are not they're mostly used as a last resort in case that you usually need something.
00:24:36.880 -->
00:24:43.119But the easiest way and the cheapest way to get credit is just using credit cards with installments, which they are interest-free.
00:24:43.359 -->
00:24:44.160Yeah, yeah.
00:24:44.400 -->
00:24:49.279As we start to wind the show down a little bit, um, what are your predictions for 2026?
00:24:49.359 -->
00:24:54.720You know, especially on the uh fintech ecosystem in Latin America.
00:24:54.880 -->
00:24:56.720What do you what do you see coming down the road?
00:24:57.039 -->
00:24:58.720Um, I expect a lot of growth.
00:24:58.799 -->
00:25:00.319Uh, it's not slowing down.
00:25:00.480 -->
00:25:04.160I remember some years ago people were talking that fintech is slowly dying.
00:25:04.240 -->
00:25:05.599Now we see the total opposite.
00:25:05.759 -->
00:25:07.920It's it's growing faster and faster and faster.
00:25:08.079 -->
00:25:09.759So I expect uh a lot of growth.
00:25:10.000 -->
00:25:14.400I expect a lot of new uh Latin American fintechs to come around.
00:25:14.480 -->
00:25:25.359And also what I expect the most, we have seen it with NewBank, for example, Latin American fintechs serving other countries, meaning not doing things just for Latin American countries, but for the rest of the world.
00:25:25.440 -->
00:25:27.680So I I ex I expect more disruption that way.
00:25:27.839 -->
00:25:28.079Yeah.
00:25:28.319 -->
00:25:30.960And then uh last question, we can have a little fun here.
00:25:31.119 -->
00:25:42.400Um I know you don't permanently live in Montevideo, but for those that are that are listening that maybe have it on their list to visit, what do they need to see?
00:25:42.559 -->
00:25:44.160What do they need to experience?
00:25:44.400 -->
00:25:45.839Best times of the year to go.
00:25:46.079 -->
00:25:48.640Be be the the tour guide here for the listeners.
00:25:49.039 -->
00:25:50.960Yes, yes, definitely in summer.
00:25:51.119 -->
00:25:52.480Please do not come in winter.
00:25:52.640 -->
00:25:54.160It's a very great city in winter.
00:25:54.319 -->
00:25:56.400We get a bit of sun, but that's it, and it's cold.
00:25:56.559 -->
00:26:00.000I remember that we are quite one of the most software capitals in the world.
00:26:00.079 -->
00:26:05.680So it is a subtropical climate, so you need to come in summer if you want warm weather.
00:26:06.000 -->
00:26:07.839And I'll say La Rambla.
00:26:08.160 -->
00:26:10.480La Rambla is uh the promenade along the sea.
00:26:10.640 -->
00:26:15.359We have a beautiful coastline, beautiful beaches going all the way up to the border with Brazil.
00:26:15.519 -->
00:26:18.240So if you want to come to Montevideo, just please come in the summer.
00:26:18.400 -->
00:26:19.519You can get a car.
00:26:19.680 -->
00:26:20.640Everything is very close.
00:26:20.799 -->
00:26:22.880That's those are the benefits of living in a small country.
00:26:22.960 -->
00:26:25.839You can drive from corner to corner of the country in four hours.
00:26:25.920 -->
00:26:28.319So there's a lot to see, uh, very nice beaches.
00:26:28.400 -->
00:26:28.559Yeah.
00:26:28.720 -->
00:26:28.960Yeah.
00:26:29.039 -->
00:26:30.000I'll always remember.
00:26:30.079 -->
00:26:42.160I think I visited, it was a beautiful Sunday afternoon, and uh my wife and I walked the Rambla, and we saw um a lot of couples just walking, and you know.
00:26:42.400 -->
00:26:50.240I made uh it was a fun, fun observation, you know, where like the guy would have one hand around his girlfriend and the other hand around his mate thermos.
00:26:50.640 -->
00:26:51.519Yes, yes.
00:26:51.759 -->
00:26:56.559We have this habit of carrying our mates everywhere, especially the rambla.
00:26:56.720 -->
00:27:03.039Going to the Rambla to to drink some mate and have some pastries is yeah, it's a must-do, especially on a very nice Sunday.
00:27:03.200 -->
00:27:04.079Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:04.240 -->
00:27:07.440Uh well, Augustine, this has been a really fun conversation.
00:27:07.599 -->
00:27:11.839Uh, thanks for educating us so much on the Latin America fintech ecosystem.
00:27:12.000 -->
00:27:12.640Uh, learned a lot.
00:27:12.880 -->
00:27:13.680Thank you very much, Brian.
00:27:13.759 -->
00:27:17.359It was it was a pleasure, a very nice conversation, and yeah, the best to you.
00:27:17.599 -->
00:27:17.920Excellent.
00:27:18.000 -->
00:27:26.319Well, this is the Nearshore Cafe Podcast, and a podcast today was sponsored by Plug Technologies, pl-g-g.tech.
00:27:26.720 -->
00:27:30.559Great way to connect talent all over Latin America with growing US companies.
00:27:30.880 -->
00:27:31.680Thanks for listening.
00:27:32.000 -->
00:27:32.880We'll see you next time.
