Episode 134: Homeschooling — The Path to Raising Leaders, Not Just Box-Checkers

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Welcome to another episode of K-12 Education Untangled.
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My name is Dr Kim J Fields, former corporate manager turned education researcher and advocate, and I'm the host of this podcast.
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I got into this space after dealing with some frustrating interactions with school educators and administrators, as well as experiencing the microaggressions that I faced as an African American mom raising my two kids, who were in the public school system.
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I really wanted to understand how teachers were trained and what the research provided about the challenges of the public education system.
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Once I gained the information and the insights that I needed, I was then equipped to be able to successfully support my children in their education and progress.
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This battle-tested experience is what I provide as action steps for you to take.
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It's like enjoying a bowl of educational research with a sprinkling of mother wisdom on top.
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If you're looking to find out more about current information and issues in public education that could affect you and your children, and the action steps that you can take to give your children the advantages they need, then you're in the right place.
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Thanks for tuning in today.
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I know that staying informed about K-12 public education trends and topics is important to you, so keep listening.
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Give me 30 minutes and I'll untangle the latest trends, issues and topics pertaining to this constantly evolving K-12 public education environment.
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In this episode, I'll be continuing the discussion about homeschooling.
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As you recall, my initial discussion about this was in episode 89, but this time there's a twist.
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I have a special guest joining me who is an expert in homeschooling.
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She's been a homeschooler since 2008, homeschooling her son, who is now in high school.
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She's also a homeschool mentor.
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Cammie is advancing a homeschool revolution with her Homeschool Success podcast.
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She's the creator of the Raising Leaders Roadmap, the Freedom Scholar, and has a deep passion for freedom and education.
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Her mission is to help parents overcome doubt, overwhelm and frustration to increase their family's love of learning and become great mentors, resulting in families who raise lifelong learners and passionate leaders.
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Her name is Cami Juarez.
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Cami, welcome to the show.
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Thanks so much for having me.
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This is super exciting.
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You're a certified teacher.
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What were the determining factors that led you to homeschooling?
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Oh my gosh, where do I start?
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You know it's funny.
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My husband is also a teacher.
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He's 28 years in public education and so he and I both say the same thing that we know too much.
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We know too much about the system.
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We know it from inside, both as a student and then as a teacher, and we know too much.
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And you know there are a lot of reasons why people homeschool.
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They're all very personal and individual to the family.
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I talk with homeschoolers and people considering homeschooling all over the country and Canada and even other countries, and a lot of times it's really about for me it was wanting to spend more time with my son.
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I had my son for a reason because I wanted a child and I didn't want to send them off and send him off to someone else all day.
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And and I didn't want to send them off and send them off to someone else all day and then I don't get to spend time with them.
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He's the love of my world and I want to spend time with him.
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And then also it was.
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I know how the school system works and the results.
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I taught high school English and so I saw the results going all the way up and yeah, they can be successful.
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But really there's only about maybe nine 10% of students who really thrive in that kind of environment and that system.
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The rest of them just kind of check boxes, and I knew I was a box checker when I was a student.
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So it was a lot of thinking about what do I really want for my son?
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Do I want him to just check the boxes and get through the system or do I want him to love learning and become a lifelong learner?
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That was a big determiner for me, plus the social thing.
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Oh my gosh, there's just so much difference in social, the school, social environment, with technology and with things that are happening in the world that I just really didn't want him to have to deal with that.
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I always said if I could save him from the bus like riding on the bus, save him from that, oh my gosh, he would be so excited.
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Yes.
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That was such a traumatic experience for me.
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Oh, yes, fun times, but still also dramatic.
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Well-remembered memories of the bus trips yes.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Wow, Homeschooling was on the rise during COVID.
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But did the spike in growth of homeschooling continue after?
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that.
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Oh my gosh, I feel like it's only gotten more.
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Oh my gosh, I feel like it's only gotten more.
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So, you know, I started homeschooling my son back in 2008, and it was when homeschooling was not very popular, especially here in California we're behind the curve on the homeschooling run and so it was still really rare.
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It was to the point at which, you know, it wasn't something we talked about a lot, but now it's so prevalent that everybody knows someone who homeschools, and so it's really weird if you don't know someone that homeschools.
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That's so much different.
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Every single day, I'm talking to more and more and more parents and in all the Facebook groups I'm a part of, every single day there are tons and tons more parents that are asking how do I get started.
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There are tons and tons more parents that are asking how do I get started.
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I'm sick of the bullying.
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My son is special needs and isn't getting what he needs.
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My daughter, you know, has super anxiety about going to school.
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Or, you know, I even talked with a parent yesterday whose son had a traumatic experience with a teacher, actually, and the teacher was not nice to this second grader and it was so bad to the point at which it really affected his confidence.
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He felt like he couldn't learn, he wasn't good enough and he felt like he just didn't want to go back to school.
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So you know, and then we're talking about the eight year old.
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You know, and while most teachers and and hey, I'm from that field and you know we both are most teachers are amazing and they do good things, but it's just like anybody else and like any other situation.
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They're not all like that.
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It really.
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Oh, when I heard that, I just really, yeah, that's heartbreaking.
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Who?
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It stirs my, my bear.
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Yeah, yes, it's heartbreaking, especially when you know the impact of what a teacher can do for a child, not only in that grade, but two, three grades out.
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Right, yeah, it affects them forever.
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Yes.
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And that the audacity that somebody would even be In that situation just makes my blood boil.
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Yes, it's growing every single day and it grows for everyone, in every situation, whatever income level, whatever societal situation.
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It seems like almost there will be a place.
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I feel like there will be just as many homeschoolers as there are going to school.
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Wow, well, that's great to hear.
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Wow, well, that's great to hear.
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Now, if we follow on to that as far as socioeconomic and cultural perspectives, we know that culture informs all aspects of learning and creates different learning experiences for those that are in the learning process.
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Now, my audience tends to think that homeschooling generally pertains to white families.
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Have you found this to be true, or are there more?
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families of color that are getting into homeschooling generally pertains to white families.
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Have you found this to be true, or are there more families of color that are getting into homeschooling?
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You know it's across the board, it really is.
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I see the belief and I see the stigma and I see where it comes from, because originally it comes from a very Christian, a very or, on the other hand, it even comes from a very like, hippie like background.
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You know, you think of, like back in the seventies, the people were homeschooling, were either in cults or they were on communes or they were highly Christian, right, yes, and that was actually kind of true.
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You know, the in-betweens were not really there, but now it's so different.
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It's literally everyone African-American, asian, hispanics are everybody in between.
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It's literally everyone, and I know this because I'm talking with parents literally every single day from all across the country Canada, like I said, some even in other countries too.
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We have people in India that are homeschooling, the Philippines.
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We have even places where it's not even legal but they're doing it anyways, and so it's really something that everybody is kind of hooked into.
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And there's this general sense about the society within this.
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If you read history and there's a book called the fourth turning, which I encourage, is incredible book talking about how, in times of crisis, crises and this is a time we've been in, a few decades of crisis now, crisis era and this is totally normal but in times like that, people pull back to things that are simple, and part of that is pulling back to the home, in the family, and so this is totally normal for us is that we've been in this trend for a long time.
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That's why everybody has a garden and chickens and you know everybody has all these things now that they're doing this like homesteading movements, but education as well, because you're pulling back, you're saying, no, I know I can advocate for my kid, I know I can give them what they need.
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I don't trust that necessarily.
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I don't feel that like I'm good with all that, so I'm going to take ownership of it.
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Well, as far as the financial aspects of it, what types of resources are available for parents who have one parent that's homeschooling and the other one works in your two income family?
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How are they supplementing?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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You know, I actually have a blog article about how it doesn't have to cost a lot to homeschool and it literally doesn't.
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There are so many free and cheap things.
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Are you going to have to invest and are you going to have to invest in your own money?
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Sometimes, yes, especially in California, but there are ways to get around that too.
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Charter school, home schools you can get public funds.
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There's public funds in many, many other states as well that you can get access to.
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That will cover things like curriculum and cover things like tutors or even things like swimming classes or, you know, martial arts or horseback riding or music lessons.
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Sometimes those are covered as well.
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So there's a lot of opportunities for parents who don't have a lot of money to spend on homeschool.
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And trust me when I say that there are a lot of free things out there too, especially with museums.
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They have homeschool days and free days, and there's all kinds of resources online that you can print out and download, and there's a lot of things.
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I caution to say that a lot of those things aren't super robust and there are a lot of box checking, but there are tons of resources and really, with the one income family or two income families that are working full time, both parents working full time.
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I have a couple of clients like that right now and it's totally 100% possible.
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I mean, we don't want to have our kids, you know, have our five-year-old home alone, but we do want to make sure that we have their childcare covered.
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But homeschooling doesn't take as much time as you think.
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That's what's the beauty of it, and so when you are thinking about homeschooling, it doesn't matter your situation.
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You can always make it work.
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I know that's a concern for many of the parents that are out there Like, ok, I do want to homeschool, but we're going to lose financial resources if I do, and then where do we go for the resources to supplement that missing gap of income?
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So you've provided ample resources and told us that there are resources available not only financially but also in co-op situations between museums, libraries, recreation areas mentioned swimming and horseback riding and all that.
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So that is great information to know, because most people think that, yeah, this is limited, we're going to be at home, not that you're going to be socially isolated, because I know that that has significantly improved.
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The research indicates at the college level that kids that were homeschooled show no difference in socialization than those that went to public school.
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If I'm actually honest, they're better socialized typically.
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That's probably the truth.
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You know, it's funny, the kids aren't hindered by only associating with kids of their own age and they also are not fearful of people.
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You know in terms of what they're going to say or how they look, or when you see a child that's been homeschooled for the whole time, like my son, even at a young age he's looking at you know the cashier at the grocery store in the eyes and you know answering questions and oh yeah, you know just talking like crazy and they're like, oh my gosh, he's so amazing.
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Exactly yeah, he's different.
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Well, they're not scared.
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Exactly yeah, they don't have the fear.
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Basically, exactly that they love.
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It's like having a golden retriever.
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You know everybody's friendly yes, yes, which is also you have to teach them.
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You know that it's not like that all the time necessarily, but it is in safe situations, then it absolutely is okay.
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So how do you balance parenting while homeschooling?
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Well, that's a beautiful question, because the way that I look at homeschooling and my methodology and what I found works best for raising whole people who are prepared for life, is that homeschooling is learning through life, and so there's not homeschooling and then there's life.
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There's just homeschooling and life together, and so when that happens, then what we see a lot of times is when we can integrate everything, which is the only way to do it.
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Really, I should say it's not the only way, but it's the best way, because you're going to lose your mind.
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A lot of parents think that, okay, I have to spend, you know, four to six hours, you know, with the studies and then I have to make do all the things right.
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It's like that seems a lot and it is because you know we can still get that learning in there.
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But if we integrate it into our daily life, then we can still set aside time to do the things that we need to do, but we do it in a way that's inspiring learning, and when kids love of learning is high, they will learn virtually on their own.
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Yes, it is shocking how much, and you see this at the college level.
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I'm sure when students are really interested that you cannot stop them.
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You cannot.
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But when love of learning is low, when they're just doing worksheets, when they're just doing workbooks, they're checking boxes, and it creates a low level of love of learning, then they're not interested and everything is harder.
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There's frustration, there's nagging complaining.
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There's all the oh you know, and everybody's stressed out.
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So the way to go about it is to create a culture and an environment where it is integrated into everything that you do, nice, that makes a lot of sense, because I think, yeah, I think that because we were in the public education system, education has to be structured.
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That's just how we were acculturated, right.
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And now you're saying that, no, in a homeschooling environment it's integrated with life.
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I love that.
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Well, it doesn't have to be, and many people don't do it that way.
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And then they come to me like, oh, we're fighting, we're hating life.
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And I did that too when I first started, and it ended up with my six-year-old and I both in tears every day.
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And I literally just talked with a parent yesterday.
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She was panic stricken, wow, just bawling her eyes out.
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Bless her, because she was so having such a miserable time and all the weight of everything that was not going right was on her shoulders.
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And her poor son just has a low love of learning from his horrible experience and they just need a whole new reset.
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And that's the thing.
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That's beautiful is you can reset that.
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If your kids are coming out of public school, you absolutely need to reset that, because they won't have what they need to learn and with the love of learning that they need to have, and then also with integrating it into your life.
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you're sending the message that learning happens everywhere, all the time, which is how our brains work.
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Our brains do not work Like I'm going to do my language arts and my writing.
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Correct.
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Ding, ding, ding, the bell rings.
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And now I'm going to go switch my brain off from what I was doing, even if it was exciting.
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Let's say they were doing something that was fun and exciting.
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Nope, you're not allowed to have fun with that anymore.
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You need to take that, turn it off.
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And now we need to go to science class or math class or whatever the case, and we need to turn on that part of our brain.
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That's not how our brains work.
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Our brains work like oh, I want to build a skate park.
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So if I want to build a skate park, what do I need to know?
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Well, I need to know how laws get approved in my city, in my County.
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I need to know zoning laws.
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I need to know about that.
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I need to know about the physics of skateboarding and how the moves work and how, what, the angles, the geometry of the angles that allow for those certain tricks to be done.
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I need to know construction materials and how things are built, and there's so much involved.
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This is how our brains work.
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Yes, yes, so it's more deep learning than broad learning.
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It's actually like a focused learning.
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It's like we don't have to learn everything in sequential order.
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Correct, that's absolutely true.
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Our brains are more than capable of figuring out and making the connections when we allow them to, it will make the connection.
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That is true, and we'll get back to that level of learning in a little bit.
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But first there are different formats of homeschooling, like learning pods, micro schools, networks, things like that.
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Is it possible for parents to ensure that they are teaching culturally relevant and responsive instruction, as well as addressing the skills needed to interact with diverse students and you touched on that a little bit about the diversity that students learn and are exposed to in homeschooling but can parents ensure that they're teaching culturally relevant instruction to their kids through homeschool curriculum?
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Well, you know, the beauty of that is that when you homeschool you're in charge and so you get to choose, and so you get to get with a group of people that are like minded, and that's the beauty of it.
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So you get to make sure that you're with a group of people you connect with, that share your values, and if there's not one there, you can make one, and I guarantee you that that's the wonderful part about it is that it only takes you and one other person to really create the network and then it grows from there.
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I just watched that happen in the last year or two with this homeschool group up in in the next town from me, and we're really connected in there and everybody's like-minded and everybody shares a lot of the same values.
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But it's very inclusive to homeschoolers.
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For the most part here in the United States are very inclusive.
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But again, you have to shop around, you have to figure out what's there and you don't need to have any of that.
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You can do it on your own.
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You don't have to have a pod or a co-op or something like that.
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There's so many places.
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I didn't have that when my son was little and in his elementary, even middle school years I didn't have that opportunity because there just weren't homeschoolers around.
00:22:28.581 --> 00:22:55.352
But you can provide those kinds of social and the multicultural and that everything based on how you provide opportunities so you can go to places, you can go to cultural centers, you can go to events, and we have a theater nearby that does a lot of free events, and so you just have to find out where they are and you have to dig in right so you can create that for yourself.
00:22:55.352 --> 00:23:00.848
If you can't find anything around you, then you can make it and you can connect with other people that are like-minded.
00:23:01.691 --> 00:23:14.524
Okay, so it's about intention, it's about resources and the motivation that this is what you want your child exposed to the cultures.
00:23:14.524 --> 00:23:24.620
And there are the resources, as you mentioned free theaters and other cultural groups and modes for them to be exposed to other cultures.
00:23:24.620 --> 00:23:54.207
Because if you think about homeschooling and I learned this from you that you're raising your child in a home slash life environment that exposes them to the real world, them to the real world, and so to do that, they need to have exposure to various cultures, organizations, resources communities that help them broaden their view of the world.
00:23:54.386 --> 00:23:54.668
Is that true?
00:23:54.668 --> 00:23:55.371
Well, and they will.
00:23:55.371 --> 00:23:58.019
If you're giving them a real great education, you're going to.
00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:02.651
You're not going to live in your house locked up with your kids and never see life.
00:24:02.651 --> 00:24:04.867
You know, you're learning at the grocery store.
00:24:04.867 --> 00:24:05.752
You're learning at.
00:24:05.752 --> 00:24:12.432
You know there's just all these different places where people are, so you're going to be exposing them to those things.
00:24:12.432 --> 00:24:19.381
That's something that I heard recently from a 40 plus year veteran teacher, an older retired teacher.
00:24:19.381 --> 00:24:25.451
She was talking about how well they need to go to school so they can be multicultural and they can learn from other things.
00:24:25.511 --> 00:24:34.283
I was like we don't live in a box, no, no absolutely not, and there's more than one way to get exposure to culture, which you've already brought out.
00:24:34.283 --> 00:24:40.742
So we talked about lifelong learning, and I'm big on the value of lifelong learning.
00:24:40.742 --> 00:24:50.571
How does homeschooling contribute to helping students become lifelong learners, and what happens if we don't create lifelong learners?
00:24:51.813 --> 00:24:54.889
Oh, my gosh girl, you're speaking my language right here, right, I know.
00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:55.631
I feel it.
00:24:55.631 --> 00:25:00.611
We have an opportunity in homeschooling to create lifelong learners.
00:25:00.611 --> 00:25:04.784
Public school does not create lifelong learners, it just doesn't.
00:25:04.784 --> 00:25:07.249
It creates really good box checkers.
00:25:07.249 --> 00:25:24.932
And what happens with this and I talk about this and actually I have a workshop on this coming Thursday that I talk a lot about this we have a choice to make if we're going to raise leaders or followers, and box checkers are followers, because, if you think about it, what did I do in school?
00:25:24.932 --> 00:25:35.129
You know I listened for what the assignment was, what was the bare minimum I needed to do to get a B or more on that, and that's what I did and I did no more.
00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:45.163
And so when you raise people that are conditioned to box checking, is that when they become adults and they go into the world, what do they look for?
00:25:45.163 --> 00:25:49.752
They look for boxes to check or somebody to give them a box to check.
00:25:49.752 --> 00:25:53.689
So you can homeschool that way, and many people do.
00:25:53.689 --> 00:26:19.514
And that is exactly what I'm on a mission to change, because that is the saddest thing in the world to me, when you have an opportunity as a homeschooler to get out of that mentality and to raise inspiration and love of learning, because love of learning creates lifelong learners, and lifelong learners make leaders.
00:26:19.514 --> 00:26:22.947
Yes, and there is no other way about it.
00:26:22.947 --> 00:26:26.102
You never meet a leader who is not a lifelong learner.
00:26:26.102 --> 00:26:26.884
It just doesn't have it.
00:26:26.884 --> 00:26:27.787
That's correct.
00:26:27.787 --> 00:26:37.251
And in order to get that way, they have to have a high level of love of learning, consistently for a long period of time, and so that's why love of learning is so important.
00:26:37.291 --> 00:26:40.222
We have to decide what that end goal is for our children.
00:26:40.222 --> 00:26:46.891
We have to think about what do we want for our kids when they're like 24, when they're 25.
00:26:46.891 --> 00:26:53.831
And I say that because that's like maybe after college or whatever they're going to do, and so they're out in the world doing their thing.
00:26:53.831 --> 00:26:55.602
What does that look like?
00:26:55.602 --> 00:27:00.692
Not what they're doing as a career, but who are we trying to raise?
00:27:00.692 --> 00:27:04.158
And so if we're trying to raise people who are independent, who are creative thinkers, who are we trying to raise?
00:27:04.158 --> 00:27:13.464
Yes, and so if we're trying to raise people who are independent, who are creative thinkers, who are making a difference in their society, in their community, in their family, we have to raise leaders.
00:27:13.464 --> 00:27:18.819
Yes, which means we have to create lifelong learners working backwards.
00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:37.656
We have to create a culture and environment that has a high level of learning that is so true because, you know, the public education system teaches students how to be employees not thinkers, not creatives, not leaders, but employees, absolutely.
00:27:37.656 --> 00:27:39.701
So your point is very valid.
00:27:39.701 --> 00:27:40.603
I love that.
00:27:40.603 --> 00:27:47.255
Well, cammy, it seems like the time has gone by just as quickly as we started.
00:27:47.255 --> 00:27:52.065
I've enjoyed this conversation so much and thanks for joining me on the show today.
00:27:52.065 --> 00:27:54.269
It's been great, very informative.
00:27:55.092 --> 00:27:55.613
I love it.
00:27:55.613 --> 00:27:56.986
Thank you so much for having me.
00:27:56.986 --> 00:27:58.405
This has been super amazing.
00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:00.006
Been really fun.
00:28:00.006 --> 00:28:04.450
So what's the best way for my audience to connect with you and learn more about your mission?
00:28:05.511 --> 00:28:07.225
Absolutely so you can contact me.
00:28:07.225 --> 00:28:16.423
I'm very easy to get a hold of on social media, so Facebook, instagram, I'm at the Freedom Scholar, or you can just look up Kami Wanis and there's also.
00:28:16.423 --> 00:28:17.929
I'm on YouTube as well.
00:28:17.929 --> 00:28:24.143
I do a weekly live every Thursday on YouTube and in my Facebook group and that's at the freedom scholar.
00:28:24.143 --> 00:28:28.381
Or you can go to the freedom scholarcom and you can get in touch with me there.
00:28:28.381 --> 00:28:29.904
I'm super easy to get ahold of.
00:28:30.046 --> 00:28:35.467
I love talking to parents it's literally my favorite thing and so I would love to chat with you.
00:28:35.467 --> 00:28:48.212
Even if you're curious about homeschooling, you just don't know if it's something you can do, if you're already homeschooling and you want to create a culture that has that high level of love of learning, I would love to chat.
00:28:48.212 --> 00:28:54.780
I did want to mention that I have a free gift for you guys, so it is the love of learning assessment.
00:28:54.780 --> 00:28:56.765
So it's a PDF download.
00:28:56.765 --> 00:29:09.492
It's actually a snapshot of the love of learning in your home right now, so the level of which you have love of learning, so if it's low, if it's medium, if it's high, and you'll get a snapshot right there.
00:29:09.492 --> 00:29:20.906
So I encourage you to download that and take it right away and then take it in, like you know, three to six months and see how it's going, if it's going up, it's going down, and then see what you need to do.
00:29:20.906 --> 00:29:27.835
It'll actually give you a little bit of hints on what to do, to take the next steps, to raise that love of learning.
00:29:28.456 --> 00:29:30.545
Oh, that's great, Thank you.
00:29:30.545 --> 00:29:40.923
Did you enjoy this episode?
00:29:40.923 --> 00:29:51.871
If so, go to my podcast website at k12educationuntangledbuzzsproutcom and leave me a text message about how you're enjoying my show.
00:29:51.871 --> 00:29:56.190
That's k12educationuntangledbuzzsproutcom.
00:29:56.190 --> 00:30:15.545
Go to the episode description and click on send me a text message link Again, it's k12education untangledbuzzsproutcom and leave me a text message today, and remember to share my podcast with anyone that you think would find it valuable.
00:30:15.545 --> 00:30:19.574
That includes your friends, family and community.
00:30:19.574 --> 00:30:21.946
Thanks for listening today.
00:30:21.946 --> 00:30:29.390
I hope you'll come back for more K-12 educational discussions with even more exciting topics to untangle.
00:30:29.390 --> 00:30:34.809
Until next time, aim to learn something new every day.