The MOps Leap: Transitioning into Strategic Marketing Roles with Rick Collins

WEBVTT
00:00:25.114 --> 00:00:30.694
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of OpsCast brought to you by MarketingOpscom, powered by all the MoPros out there.
00:00:30.694 --> 00:00:44.534
I'm your host, michael Hartman, flying solo as Mike is right in the thick of Spring Fling 2025, the inaugural one, and then Naomi's tied up and so we are going to power through.
00:00:44.534 --> 00:00:47.911
So joining me today to share about his career journey is Rick Collins.
00:00:47.911 --> 00:00:51.680
Rick is currently Vice President of Demand Generation at ConnectWise.
00:00:51.680 --> 00:00:57.242
Rick started his career in IT, eventually as the head of IT CRM and more with United Way of Central Ohio.
00:00:57.242 --> 00:01:02.121
When he joined ConnectWise, he pivoted to a role as a Senior Marketing Systems Analyst.
00:01:02.121 --> 00:01:08.963
Since then, he has moved into leadership roles within marketing operations and then into his current role of vice president of demand generation.
00:01:08.963 --> 00:01:10.334
So, rick, thanks for joining me today.
00:01:10.816 --> 00:01:11.679
No, thanks for having me.
00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:13.996
So this is going to be fun.
00:01:13.996 --> 00:01:23.118
So we talked before and I look forward to sharing the story with everybody who's listening because we want to get into this conversation.
00:01:23.118 --> 00:01:42.563
But I think a lot of what was really intriguing and what I think I reached out to you to be on is I think it was interesting that your path went through marketing operations into a more general marketing leadership role, and I think a lot of people are always thinking about, like, if I'm in marketing ops, what's the next step and what's the next step of that?
00:01:42.563 --> 00:01:52.384
And I think it hasn't always been clear and sometimes there hasn't been a lot of belief that you could move into more of a general marketing leadership one.
00:01:52.384 --> 00:01:53.969
So I think that's part of why I was curious.
00:01:54.070 --> 00:01:57.894
So why don't you maybe talk through your career I did a very high level right.
00:01:57.894 --> 00:02:00.037
Talk through your career in a little more detail.
00:02:00.037 --> 00:02:18.302
Know that one of the things I'm always interested in is if there are like pivotal moments or decisions or people that had maybe an outsized impact in you know the trajectory and direction of your career yeah um, no happy to uh and uh yeah um.
00:02:19.264 --> 00:02:20.807
Is marketing ops marketing right?
00:02:20.807 --> 00:02:22.812
Is that where we're going to go?
00:02:22.832 --> 00:02:23.013
down.
00:02:23.013 --> 00:02:24.978
Oh no, no, we we've covered that.
00:02:24.978 --> 00:02:30.492
But yeah, if you want to go there, we can no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, um, I've seen them all.
00:02:30.812 --> 00:02:35.061
Uh, they've been fun dialogue, uh, no, I, you know I was I was never.
00:02:35.061 --> 00:02:41.782
I never saw myself kind of going down into an it path, even though most of my career was kind of down it I was.
00:02:41.782 --> 00:02:42.431
I was more of a.
00:02:42.431 --> 00:02:44.682
It was an international business and spanish major.
00:02:44.682 --> 00:02:54.790
At college I thought I was going to be, I don't know, an importer, exporter or something related to like business within Latin America and, uh, doing something related to that.
00:02:54.790 --> 00:02:56.316
Really didn't have it mapped out.
00:02:56.316 --> 00:02:57.258
It was just kind of a.
00:02:57.258 --> 00:02:59.413
You know an aspect of where I thought I'd go.
00:02:59.492 --> 00:03:06.335
And when I graduated college many, many years ago, um, I uh started to try to find out where am I going to land?
00:03:06.335 --> 00:03:07.317
What is this going to look like?
00:03:07.317 --> 00:03:12.229
I just happened to find myself in IT and was pretty good at it.
00:03:12.229 --> 00:03:13.675
I picked up systems really well.
00:03:13.675 --> 00:03:15.897
I was able to understand applications.
00:03:15.897 --> 00:03:25.682
I was in QA is where I started, and so even what you're talking about, what pivotal moments that year and a half that I had in a telco in QA is.
00:03:25.682 --> 00:03:30.626
I was working directly with developers, I was testing systems, systems.
00:03:30.626 --> 00:03:32.812
I was learning um automation.
00:03:32.812 --> 00:03:34.757
I learned how to do light coding.
00:03:35.337 --> 00:03:39.652
Um, I was that I didn't have a computer, uh, at my house growing up.
00:03:39.652 --> 00:03:42.139
I wasn't one of those people who was like super into it.
00:03:42.139 --> 00:03:43.390
I just kind of picked it up.
00:03:43.390 --> 00:03:52.420
I I guess it just fit for me, um, and so I kind of parlayed that into my next role and I was implementing software for a software company.
00:03:52.420 --> 00:03:54.777
So I got kind of my first taste of SaaS.
00:03:55.331 --> 00:03:56.997
This is like the early 2000s.
00:03:56.997 --> 00:04:12.812
It's a much different world, but it was a lot of moving from mainframe computers to client server-based applications, computers to client server-based applications.
00:04:12.812 --> 00:04:15.296
And so I got into SQL and really was kind of liaison between the tech and business.
00:04:15.296 --> 00:04:17.221
And so that's where I kind of found my niche.
00:04:17.221 --> 00:04:28.337
Was I fit well, kind of balancing and understanding the business world and being able to work with non-technical users and people, people.
00:04:28.337 --> 00:04:42.332
A lot of the people I was working with at that time in that role was, uh, county government, uh employees, and so a lot of um, a lot of people have never used a mouse before uh and transitioning them from a, you know, green screen mainframe computer.
00:04:42.332 --> 00:04:47.057
Some of the listeners probably don't even know what that is but oh, I do, yeah, I'm sure you do right.
00:04:47.559 --> 00:04:56.812
Uh, so they were going from hp 3000, these old old school mainframe, uh, green screen applications, and moving them to a client server based application.
00:04:56.812 --> 00:04:59.158
And so I was training them, I was implementing the software.
00:04:59.158 --> 00:05:03.557
Um, I would have to remote into their machines, uh, at times, and they'd have to.
00:05:03.557 --> 00:05:05.181
You know, is the modem plugged in?
00:05:05.181 --> 00:05:16.585
Try this, it's all that kind of stuff, um, and and really that's just highlights kind of that um, that bridge that I kind of served between the technical and the non-technical, because then I was working directly with the developers.
00:05:16.585 --> 00:05:19.816
Hey, here's what we're seeing on the ground, here's the areas that we might need to do.
00:05:20.216 --> 00:05:42.893
I was building the databases, um, we'd have a local copy of the database, and so I would set things up based on the requirements of the the user, so it was a lot of that, which I definitely took that into once I got into a more marketing role and kind of leveraging that business impact and understanding the impact and the end user aspect of things, and so when I got to.
00:05:42.932 --> 00:05:43.455
United Way.
00:05:43.455 --> 00:05:48.320
I was over IT, I had multiple roles throughout the software company.
00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:50.145
I was over IT, I had multiple roles throughout the software company.
00:05:50.145 --> 00:05:54.528
And then when I went to United Way, it was really kind of a it was sort of marketing ops before we knew what marketing ops was.
00:05:54.528 --> 00:06:06.360
But it was a little more than that because it was kind of it was a CIO essentially with an outsourced IT company, a managed service provider kind of took care of the day-to-day IT.
00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:25.600
And I just looked at, you know, looked at holistically, but a big part of it was building out um crm and marketing uh automation platform and so was heavily involved with the, the worldwide organization of united way, trying to build a, a common um donor management system powered by salesforce uh.
00:06:25.659 --> 00:06:30.552
And so got very heavy on the marketing side, decided I wanted to move to Tampa.
00:06:30.572 --> 00:06:38.557
It was too cold in Ohio, I'm a Buckeye, and so decided my wife and I were like let's go to the beach and start over.
00:06:38.557 --> 00:06:51.345
And so when I found ConnectWise, found a role there in marketing ops didn't know what marketing ops was really, but the way it was described, the way the role was described, it's like, yeah, that's kind of me.
00:06:51.345 --> 00:06:54.527
I remember talking to the CMO at the time.
00:06:54.527 --> 00:07:11.202
He's like we're kind of looking for a unicorn, someone who understands tech really well and can dive into the systems and the process but can understand the users and work with the business on sales and marketing, and I'm like, well, well, let's kind of feel like that you're describing me um and so kind of fit.
00:07:11.202 --> 00:07:29.863
Well, uh, and and I saw a lot of upside there and so you know I was, I was a one-man, uh, marketing ops person didn't mean we didn't have those functions, some of the functions that eventually came under me under marketing ops we had email, right, we had, uh, cms, uh and kind of the, the front end web dev and that kind of stuff.
00:07:30.490 --> 00:07:34.357
We had some project management, but this is like 2017.
00:07:34.357 --> 00:07:39.542
So, marketing tech I don't know what Scott Brinker's slide was.
00:07:39.542 --> 00:07:42.177
It probably was not more than 1,000 at that time.
00:07:42.177 --> 00:07:47.139
It was small, so it just hadn't become a reality.
00:07:47.139 --> 00:07:51.835
But I think I joined at the right time time and it was kind of the explosion and the formalization of marketing ops.
00:07:51.835 --> 00:07:57.181
And so I, you know, proved my value pretty quickly and kind of made the case.
00:07:57.181 --> 00:08:03.181
I I'm the one who approached the CMO about formalizing marketing ops into a team.
00:08:03.601 --> 00:08:26.221
He, he, aligned with that and so we started to kind of build that out and build out a team from there and we acquired companies got acquired by pe, so a lot of things, uh, it's kind of good timing as well as um just the the landscape changing so I guess I think it's a couple things that so first, like three things that came kind of caught my attention in that like one.
00:08:26.341 --> 00:08:27.291
So first off, my wife.
00:08:27.291 --> 00:08:28.615
We were talking about this right before we got on.
00:08:28.615 --> 00:08:38.158
She's involved with nonprofits world and so I am now, because of that, becoming familiar with Salesforce's version for nonprofits.
00:08:38.158 --> 00:08:43.633
It's a lot of the same things, but there are certain things that are different.
00:08:43.714 --> 00:08:48.822
It's an interesting learning experience, but it transfers right.
00:08:48.822 --> 00:08:50.774
So that's like another thing, right, like I can help.
00:08:50.774 --> 00:08:56.677
I can still help her when she's trying to like, I need a report that does this right, I can find my way around.
00:08:56.677 --> 00:09:08.113
Um, I think it's interesting that you came out of college without a like what would be like typical, like a computer science or engineering type degree, and you ended up in that role.
00:09:08.113 --> 00:09:28.826
It reminds me of when I first got out of college, because I did, I came out of an engineering school and sort of uh, something adjacent to computer science, and so I started at price waterhouse in the consulting practice, and one of the things they did is they sent um new, new hires off to learn like how to, how to code the way they do it right, how to do it projects.
00:09:29.970 --> 00:09:55.857
And I remember in my cohort this, this one woman who really stood out to me, who, like most of us, had some sort of at least experience with computers, and yada, yada, this one girl, she, um, sorry, one woman, she was, had been a, she was a religion major at Duke, and I remember just being like, oh, she is going to struggle, but she didn't, and it really sort of changed my viewpoint.
00:09:55.857 --> 00:10:05.815
Like that, I think there's this just because somebody's got on paper right what looks like something that doesn't make me make a match, like there are other characteristics are important.
00:10:05.815 --> 00:10:14.179
She knew how to think, she knew how to learn, she had to ask good questions, like all those things applied, and I suspect you probably had something like that as well, right?
00:10:14.890 --> 00:10:29.443
Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people in marketing ops and in marketing in general is we talk about kind of the curiosity, and I think someone who is naturally curious and who wants to go deeper and understand, I think that's.
00:10:29.443 --> 00:10:35.113
I look for that when I'm hiring people, whether it's for marketing ops or rev ops or a general marketing role in demand gen.
00:10:35.113 --> 00:10:40.442
I think that just sets people apart.
00:10:40.442 --> 00:10:41.184
When they do that.
00:10:41.184 --> 00:10:44.836
I think it can drive so much innovation and digging.
00:10:45.177 --> 00:10:48.760
I definitely had that and I learned it at times, but I also kind of had that.
00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:50.108
It was a little bit that and I um, I learned it, um, at times, but I also kind of had that.
00:10:50.108 --> 00:10:51.010
It was a little bit innate.
00:10:51.010 --> 00:11:02.615
And so I remember, you know, early in my career, uh, going to a developer and you know, a customer had an issue and so, hey, here's, here's the issue, that describing what's going on, it's like, oh, you, you know, did you check this?
00:11:02.615 --> 00:11:04.177
Uh, no, I didn't check that.
00:11:04.177 --> 00:11:04.918
We need to check that.
00:11:04.918 --> 00:11:05.699
Did you check this?
00:11:05.699 --> 00:11:14.433
And so he's kind of giving me like, here's the way to solve, to try to narrow down and diagnose what's wrong, and so it's almost like, all right, I can do that.
00:11:14.554 --> 00:11:22.356
So then I started to back into things and then you know, if it was a store procedure, fix and sequel, like all right, show me how you did that.
00:11:22.356 --> 00:11:23.978
And it's like not just taking.
00:11:24.019 --> 00:11:28.645
I haven't heard a story procedure in so long, Wow, Going way back right, I'm older than I look.
00:11:28.645 --> 00:11:43.562
But that was kind of what took me down this path of I'm not just going to wait for somebody to answer it, I'm going to find the solution myself and I'm going to learn how to do these things.
00:11:43.562 --> 00:11:52.124
And so I really started that journey early on in my career and that kind of fueled me as I, that journey early on in my career and I that kind of fueled me as, as I advanced up into two different roles as well.
00:11:53.531 --> 00:11:53.894
So the.
00:11:53.894 --> 00:11:55.158
So I said three, that's two.
00:11:55.158 --> 00:11:55.278
Two.
00:11:55.278 --> 00:12:00.053
The third thing that was interesting to me is the story about how you ended up at connect wise.
00:12:00.053 --> 00:12:07.221
In that did you say it was the CEO or the CMO that that described like what they were looking for as a unicorn the CMO, yeah.
00:12:07.221 --> 00:12:12.916
So I think it's interesting that, um, like what do you think that?
00:12:12.916 --> 00:12:25.481
What do you think happened that helped him see that you even though on again, on paper you didn't look like you would probably be a match, that that gave him a confidence, that would, that would work yeah, it's a good question, I think so.
00:12:25.521 --> 00:12:29.120
I interviewed with man I feel like 10, 11 people there.
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:34.300
It was a I remember going through a barrage of interviews and it was digital marketing.
00:12:34.300 --> 00:12:44.033
It was their web develop resource, their internal development resources, all their VPs of marketing him that.
00:12:44.033 --> 00:12:47.461
There were a ton of different audiences that I was interviewing with.
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:48.342
That's a huge number.
00:12:49.331 --> 00:12:50.274
I know it was a lot of people.
00:12:50.454 --> 00:13:19.842
Wow, it was, uh, it was an intense interview process, um, and and I think they had interviewed I what I'm pretty sure if they uh, if I remember right, this was a while ago, it was eight years ago, um, but they had been through a ton of people and every person they would interview they were either too technical and didn't connect with the business side, or they weren't technical enough and they at least from the interview process, they felt like they were kind of lacking in one area too much that they didn't think they could pull it off.
00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:26.278
And so I guess I blended that mix pretty well I was able to connect with the more dev heavy or IT technical resources and then with the business side.
00:13:26.278 --> 00:13:29.953
I was really able to connect with the more dev-heavy or IT technical resources and then with the business side.
00:13:29.953 --> 00:13:31.097
It was really able to connect there.
00:13:31.097 --> 00:13:42.756
And so I think that he understood that and saw and said I think this is the person that we're looking for, that kind of fills, both of those roles and, ultimately, what he had a vision for I think that a lot of this credit to him.
00:13:42.756 --> 00:13:46.841
He had a vision for what the role could be and what he was looking for.
00:13:46.841 --> 00:13:51.132
And yeah, the rest is history that's great.
00:13:52.053 --> 00:14:04.230
So in that transition period, um, yeah, it's so like you were a team of one, so maybe you had some connections to people who had other sort of skills that you could lean on as well.
00:14:04.230 --> 00:14:21.803
But like what, um, can you talk a little more specifically about maybe skills from your prior experience that you were able to leverage as you moved it from I don't want to call it, maybe it's general, it kind of support to the marketing domain?
00:14:22.525 --> 00:14:29.062
yeah, I mean the troubleshooting, uh, troubleshooting skills, uh, it was like immediate um, I think that.
00:14:29.062 --> 00:14:37.697
And then requirements, uh like understanding requirements, high level requirements and how to how to challenge, um, a vendor or, uh, an external resource.
00:14:37.697 --> 00:14:43.775
I think those are two stories I I can remember uh vividly that were maybe the first month that I started.
00:14:43.775 --> 00:14:48.914
So, um, lead routing, lead management, was a big um issue.
00:14:48.914 --> 00:15:01.463
That that we were struggling with at the time had a lot of complex rules, had a homegrown system, and so I spent probably my first few weeks, months really understanding the system and how it worked.
00:15:01.463 --> 00:15:10.424
And then I remember we had an external group that was bringing in a tool like a partner management tool that they wanted to implement.
00:15:10.424 --> 00:15:13.295
We had a homegrown CRM system, a homegrown lead management system.
00:15:13.336 --> 00:15:21.041
At the time we weren't on Salesforce or Marketo like we are now, but they wanted to create a custom integration.
00:15:21.041 --> 00:15:28.980
And so I went to this meeting with our head of internal development and they had sent over some requirements ahead of time.
00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:35.079
So I read through other requirements and then build out like, all right, here's the questions I have that this is how our system works.
00:15:35.079 --> 00:15:36.273
How are you going to do this?
00:15:36.273 --> 00:15:38.900
And kind of just not.
00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:55.077
I don't think it was anything too crazy, but it was just kind of like I understand how our systems work and the month that I've been here for the most part and here's what I think we're going to need to do for how you're trying to connect with us.
00:15:55.097 --> 00:16:00.336
It's different than Salesforce and having a lead object, a contact object and a company object like those types of things, and being able to show that knowledge.
00:16:00.336 --> 00:16:15.999
I think that helped like okay, this guy knows what he's talking about to our internal development lead and that those relationships I think I think my relationship building was something I really pried myself in and really kind of concentrated on and trying to branch out into different aspects of the company.
00:16:15.999 --> 00:16:16.740
So I think that was one.
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:26.117
The second scenario is we have multiple products or multiple business unit company and one of our products has a try.
00:16:26.117 --> 00:16:27.328
It's more of a PLG motion.
00:16:27.328 --> 00:16:34.482
We didn't call it PLG back then but yeah, you get into a trial and you get trial nurture and then you convert to purchase.
00:16:34.482 --> 00:16:35.992
We were having trial issues.
00:16:35.992 --> 00:16:43.221
The trial was not working and nobody could really diagnose what was going on From a product standpoint.
00:16:43.569 --> 00:16:46.798
Yeah, so like signing the form you know, nobody knew.
00:16:46.798 --> 00:16:48.601
Is the form Nobody knew, is the form wrong?
00:16:48.601 --> 00:16:50.035
Why are we having issues?
00:16:50.035 --> 00:16:57.903
It was basically a prospect would call into sales and say, hey, I can't get the trial to work, something's wrong.
00:16:57.903 --> 00:17:03.095
And somebody a web resource would go on the page and say, nope, works for me.
00:17:03.655 --> 00:17:05.136
And then it was like that's it.
00:17:05.136 --> 00:17:07.360
They're crazy, there's something wrong.
00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:09.722
And so somehow it ended up.
00:17:09.722 --> 00:17:12.605
They're like hey, rick, here, here's a project I want you to work on.
00:17:12.605 --> 00:17:21.576
And so I got really deep into it and just kind of the troubleshooting skills we talked about earlier, like using some of the technical resources, talking to the sales team what are they telling you?
00:17:21.576 --> 00:17:24.976
And then starting to diagnose what, um, what was going on.
00:17:24.976 --> 00:17:29.992
And all of a sudden it was my project and now I owned making sure that the trial would work.
00:17:29.992 --> 00:17:34.291
What are we going to do to ensure that the trial is available and working at all times?
00:17:34.291 --> 00:17:42.760
And we mentioned we had a lot of homegrown systems at the time and so it wasn't like let me go to the Marketo community and see if anybody else has had this error.
00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:55.269
This is our own system trying to diagnose and work with Dev, and so I think those are two early scenarios that earned a lot of trust in the company for me and with my boss and the CMO and then the rest of the organization.
00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:58.999
So I think I kind of parlayed that into into a few different things.
00:17:58.999 --> 00:18:01.143
And then you know he was really big on what.
00:18:01.143 --> 00:18:02.728
What can we bring?
00:18:02.728 --> 00:18:08.658
How can we really advance ourselves from back then a lead scoring model that we didn't really have?
00:18:08.658 --> 00:18:11.068
How can we advance this?
00:18:11.068 --> 00:18:16.098
How can we engage with sales a little bit better, get a tighter connection with sales?
00:18:16.098 --> 00:18:26.215
And I had been working very closely with the donor management team in my United Way year, so very different nonprofit, but it's still sales.
00:18:26.215 --> 00:18:28.928
So I had those strong relationships.
00:18:28.928 --> 00:18:39.038
I think those kinds of things I tried to to use and that you know that that relationship and trust that I was gaining with sales to to help them.
00:18:39.038 --> 00:18:44.046
So, like I am an, I'm a resource, I'm a value add to you, not just somebody trying to throw something down your throat.
00:18:44.066 --> 00:18:47.076
Yeah, I think it was interesting, I was, I was gonna, I have a follow-up for you, not just somebody trying to throw something down your throat.
00:18:47.076 --> 00:18:49.524
Yeah, I think it was interesting, I was going to, I have a follow-up for you, but I was, you just kind of touched on it.
00:18:49.524 --> 00:18:53.256
Like, the ability to build I would call it trusted relationships, right?
00:18:53.256 --> 00:18:59.412
Is, I think, an important skill that I think a lot of, especially people in early in their career, are maybe not as comfortable with.
00:18:59.412 --> 00:19:10.154
And I think one of the nuances there like I do a lot of coaching and one of them I do I have to work with people on regularly is use the word challenge.
00:19:10.154 --> 00:19:12.942
Right, you just like challenge vendors, I think.
00:19:12.942 --> 00:19:22.031
I think sometimes you have to do that internally as well, right, with people who have a bigger title than you, right and like, is that something that you like?
00:19:22.031 --> 00:19:27.168
Did you also challenge internally in this process, like and like?
00:19:27.168 --> 00:19:30.816
We could talk about how you did it if you want, but I mean, I know how I would approach it.
00:19:31.837 --> 00:19:32.678
Yeah for sure.
00:19:32.678 --> 00:19:54.516
We had a weekly meeting with our head of digital, our head of internal development, our head of web development and there were a few other kind of VPs of marketing in there and I got pulled into it and and that essentially all we were doing was kind of challenge, challenging things, and I I got comfortable very quickly with that group.
00:19:54.516 --> 00:20:02.711
But I, you know, I formed relationships initially to try to understand and kind of took more of a let me understand first before I try to challenge anything.
00:20:02.711 --> 00:20:16.836
But once I felt like I had a good grasp you know two months in which that's hard to say, like nobody knows that a company of size in two months but I felt like I had a decent understanding that I could start to, to push back on things and question things.
00:20:17.244 --> 00:20:21.329
My, I'm not like a in your face type of person, that's just not my personality.
00:20:21.329 --> 00:20:25.793
So I think more, uh, I use questions to try to challenge things.
00:20:25.793 --> 00:20:28.196
So tell me more about that.
00:20:28.196 --> 00:20:30.858
Why do you think that way?
00:20:30.858 --> 00:20:32.300
Or why should we approach it that way?
00:20:32.300 --> 00:20:41.575
If we look at some of the data behind that is you know, things like that are all leveraged data to try to show like, hey, you know, it's not a bad idea.
00:20:41.575 --> 00:20:42.456
Here's what I was looking at.
00:20:42.456 --> 00:20:43.927
Is there a reason this wouldn't work?
00:20:43.927 --> 00:20:49.317
That's kind of the approach that I've typically taken and certainly was not afraid to do that.
00:20:55.884 --> 00:20:58.250
This was eight years ago, so my memory is failing in terms of an example, but I think that's how I approached it.
00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:02.219
Have you always been comfortable with when you get challenged as well?
00:21:03.285 --> 00:21:07.817
Yeah, I'm very much a show me, prove to show me, you know, prove to me.
00:21:07.817 --> 00:21:12.795
It won't work, then let's do it Like I, and there's no sacred cows in my world.
00:21:12.795 --> 00:21:16.469
Um, I'm very much, uh, in favor of um.
00:21:16.469 --> 00:21:23.106
You know, if someone has a good idea and my idea is not right, tell me why and let's talk about it.
00:21:23.106 --> 00:21:25.772
And okay, let's try different approach.
00:21:25.772 --> 00:21:40.240
So, um, I'm sure I did, I I'm I don't remember an example of it, but we definitely uh yeah, I'm definitely not afraid of that I, I, I try to do the same thing and think about it in terms of team leadership stuff.
00:21:40.300 --> 00:21:45.797
But I had somebody work for me who I can't remember what the details were, but we were working on a problem.
00:21:45.797 --> 00:22:09.888
We were going into our one-on-one which normally I let them set the agenda, but this one we, we had a specific thing we were trying to work through and I came into it with a like I think this is what we should do, mindset and um, this other, the person who worked for me, really like challenged that and had a different idea and um, convinced me that that was the better one and that's what we went with.
00:22:09.888 --> 00:22:15.431
And my first reaction was to celebrate right and go tell my boss like, hey, this is a good day.
00:22:15.431 --> 00:22:21.414
You know, this person challenged me, was right, fought for it, and that's what we did Like to me, that's a good thing.
00:22:22.125 --> 00:22:23.328
Absolutely no, I think.
00:22:23.328 --> 00:22:24.452
I mean, I think you're spot on.
00:22:24.452 --> 00:22:27.066
I think people are especially early in their career.
00:22:27.066 --> 00:22:38.857
Oftentimes someone can be uh uncomfortable with that, like this is, and and I invite the challenge, uh for my team now right, like, um, I want them to push back to like guys.
00:22:38.857 --> 00:22:42.450
This is what I'm seeing, this is what I think like tell me I'm wrong.
00:22:42.450 --> 00:22:50.830
I like, like I'm okay with that, and I feel like we do have um a a culture at connect wise that that invites that Um.
00:22:50.830 --> 00:22:55.589
I do think, as a leader, uh, in a role that I'm in, that I need to like welcome that.
00:22:55.589 --> 00:22:58.635
And and again, you're, you said celebrate.
00:22:58.656 --> 00:23:15.571
I think that's a great way to to approach it, like we should celebrate when someone pushed backs and doesn't doesn't give, give in, just because I have a bigger title than them and said we should do this and when they know that's not right, they just do it, then we're all worse off.
00:23:15.632 --> 00:23:17.489
If that's the case, so I think that's a really good point.
00:23:17.489 --> 00:23:18.913
Yeah, 100%.
00:23:18.913 --> 00:23:34.384
So you started as a team of one and then at some point you saw that it actually could be something more, or needed to have something more, and you went and pitched the idea of growing the team.
00:23:34.384 --> 00:23:41.951
What was that process like?
00:23:41.951 --> 00:23:55.441
I mean, I'm going to expect right there's, you are going to have to come up with some sort of business case for maybe not an ROI, but some sort of like reasoning that people could sink their teeth into and go, yes, we need to do this.
00:23:55.441 --> 00:23:57.721
So what was that like and how did it go from there?
00:24:02.325 --> 00:24:03.950
Yeah, and there's a few things that were happening in the business that helped.
00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:07.845
I would advise anybody who's kind of looking at their career there's.
00:24:07.845 --> 00:24:14.826
Certainly you control a lot of that, but the state of your business and the external factors that are happening within the business.
00:24:14.826 --> 00:24:18.958
The opportunity has to be there and the timing was right for me.
00:24:18.958 --> 00:24:29.980
We had just gotten acquired by private equity so we were on a move to move off of our homegrown systems onto Salesforce and Marketo.
00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:35.777
We had just acquired another pretty large company too.
00:24:35.777 --> 00:24:44.319
So like the multiple things were happening within the business that were kind of driving the need to change the structure that we had.
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:45.654
So I think those were part of it.
00:24:45.654 --> 00:24:49.472
Now I had started talking to my CMO about it before then.
00:24:49.472 --> 00:24:58.257
Back then we were pretty heavy Serious Decisions users and really got involved pretty heavily with them.
00:24:58.545 --> 00:24:59.873
Well, that's interesting just by itself.
00:24:59.873 --> 00:25:00.878
I mean Serious Decisions.
00:25:01.181 --> 00:25:08.057
clients are usually really big enterprises, yeah right and we talked a lot about our maturity.
00:25:08.057 --> 00:25:09.892
How do we get more operationally mature?
00:25:09.892 --> 00:25:11.129
What are the things we need to do?
00:25:11.129 --> 00:25:12.730
How do we put the?
00:25:12.730 --> 00:25:18.796
I mean just think of the demand waterfall, the old school demand waterfall that existed back in the day.
00:25:18.796 --> 00:25:27.711
We were heavy, I don't know advisors to that, or that was kind of where we took things.
00:25:27.790 --> 00:25:35.774
Well, I leveraged a lot of their resources on marketing ops and here's what a marketing ops role would look like, here's what a team structure would look like.
00:25:35.774 --> 00:26:02.622
So I had some help on that front for sure, um, but I use that as kind of a guide and I think, um, you know, I was able to um show some wins that we were having just by having this formalized under our marketing ops umbrella that me plus a few others, and the combination of the acquisition, the private equity, as well as just some of the wins that we had able to make a case like, hey, what if we formalize this?
00:26:02.622 --> 00:26:04.583
Here's what it would look like, what are your thoughts?
00:26:04.583 --> 00:26:07.012
And I think he was open to it pretty quickly.
00:26:07.012 --> 00:26:11.613
So it wasn't like it took a ton of convincing that I had to build out a huge business case.
00:26:11.613 --> 00:26:12.145
It was more.
00:26:12.145 --> 00:26:13.631
This is the structure that we do it in.
00:26:13.631 --> 00:26:18.853
And here's what, especially when I was hiring that new role, so we formalized some existing roles.
00:26:18.853 --> 00:26:24.615
So the email team came under me, which was under a different team, was under digital before, and so we kind of formalized it.
00:26:24.615 --> 00:26:26.578
That way, Project management came under me.
00:26:26.578 --> 00:26:36.192
But then I need a role in net new role that does not exist today to just scale what I'm doing, and it really was just another person.
00:26:36.586 --> 00:26:37.951
And tech drove that a lot too.
00:26:37.951 --> 00:26:45.251
We were expanding our tech stack pretty significantly, as pretty much everybody was in 2018, 2019.
00:26:45.251 --> 00:26:47.297
And so that I think that drove it a lot.
00:26:47.297 --> 00:27:00.254
Like, hey, if we're going to acquire any type of tech, we need a strategy around it, of course, but we also need someone to optimize it, not just be an admin to add users, but really, how are we going to leverage this to its fullest?
00:27:00.254 --> 00:27:03.776
And I think that drove the business case even more.
00:27:03.776 --> 00:27:13.350
If we're going to spend $100,000 on a tool, it makes no sense to just not have anybody own it, because if nobody owns it.
00:27:13.370 --> 00:27:20.091
Nobody, nobody's going to use it and we're just going to have um shelfware yeah, vaporware, shelfware, whatever you want to call it right, yeah, so it's interesting to me.
00:27:20.413 --> 00:27:26.276
Um, it totally makes sense that there were sort of external factors or you know catalysts, that you know.
00:27:26.276 --> 00:27:28.087
When the time was right, it made sense.
00:27:28.087 --> 00:27:43.238
But I I don't want our listeners or audience to to walk away from us thinking, oh, I need some sort of external thing to happen, because you also talked about, you started conversations, I don't know what was it, months, you know maybe it was months in advance.
00:27:43.465 --> 00:27:45.277
yeah, it was before it actually came together.
00:27:45.558 --> 00:28:08.210
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that's a really good lesson to learn, because you know, one of the things that I've tried to do when I've tried to like pitch something big and maybe not an organizational change, but maybe a big project that's in that new thing is, by the time it becomes like you need the formal decision to say, yes, you can go.
00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:12.481
You know, do I want that to be a no brainer right?
00:28:12.481 --> 00:28:20.105
All the work that goes into ahead of that is really, really important, so that you don't want surprises when you get to the formal discussion about approval.
00:28:20.105 --> 00:28:24.783
Right, you want all the heads who are going to have to nod yes or already on board.
00:28:25.385 --> 00:28:26.248
Yeah for sure.
00:28:26.248 --> 00:28:28.620
No, I think you're spot on.
00:28:28.620 --> 00:28:32.120
I mean, you don't want to wait till an external factor.
00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:38.010
And then like, hey, I see it, I think you know I was pretty factor.
00:28:38.010 --> 00:28:44.162
And then like hey, I see it, um, I think you know I, I was pretty, uh, proactive and just like, all right, I see an opportunity here.
00:28:44.182 --> 00:28:45.830
I, I chatted with some of the relationships that I had within the organization.
00:28:45.830 --> 00:28:47.014
Like, hey, I feel like there's a need here.
00:28:47.014 --> 00:28:47.916
Am I off on that?
00:28:47.916 --> 00:28:51.881
So I approached it that way is like, tell me if I'm missing something.
00:28:51.881 --> 00:29:00.070
So, relying on some of those relationships I had and I, you know I had good buy-in and good relationships that could tell me, no, you're, you're crazy.
00:29:00.070 --> 00:29:03.822
You shouldn't do that, because here's why, um, I didn't get that.
00:29:03.822 --> 00:29:06.915
I, I got support, and so I think that helped too.
00:29:06.915 --> 00:29:11.020
Um, but I, I had a really strong relationship with our CMO.
00:29:11.301 --> 00:29:18.651
I think I was able to to show value that that I was able to provide and I hate saying I, because it was really a we.
00:29:18.651 --> 00:29:20.020
It was not me doing this on my own.
00:29:20.020 --> 00:29:22.463
There were other people very involved in this.
00:29:22.463 --> 00:29:29.249
But I think, centralizing that and just kind of the expansion that we were going to.
00:29:29.249 --> 00:29:31.123
Back then we were calling it digital transformation.
00:29:31.123 --> 00:29:36.337
We were able to show some really good value from the digital transformation effort.
00:29:36.337 --> 00:29:41.721
That made sense to start to expand and then, once we got one person, it was just like oh wow, bit of data.
00:29:41.721 --> 00:29:45.322
And then they need more and they keep asking and they don't know how they lived without it.
00:29:45.322 --> 00:29:45.542
Before.
00:29:45.542 --> 00:30:12.325
It was kind of that where we started to do some things and we saw how valuable it was so now we need more, and to do more we needed to scale.
00:30:13.415 --> 00:30:39.247
Yeah, I don't know about you, but one of the things I've struggled with before is when I see that there's a need and it seems so glaringly obvious to me and that I don't, then when I get, when I didn't follow that practice I just described of like preparing ahead of time with all the people, I would get into the formal thing, and then I get all this like resistance or questions or whatever, and it was because I hadn't done the legwork of helping.
00:30:39.247 --> 00:30:55.682
There's two ways, right, there's two, two parts of this, and one is me helping them see the same thing and, b, helping me understand, uh, why they might like, because of their perspective, right, why they might see it not as big a need as I do.
00:30:56.303 --> 00:30:56.483
Yeah.
00:30:56.924 --> 00:31:00.690
So it can help you refine the way you communicate and tell the story.
00:31:07.335 --> 00:31:07.615
Definitely.
00:31:07.615 --> 00:31:11.884
I think you you touched on something really important is like try to uh, try to determine or um predict what pushback you might get.
00:31:11.884 --> 00:31:14.168
How are they going to um to react?
00:31:14.168 --> 00:31:15.862
What are the questions you might get asked?
00:31:15.862 --> 00:31:18.902
What, what are the holes in your uh, your approach?
00:31:18.902 --> 00:31:24.662
And then see if you can find the reasons why ahead of time, so that you're already prepared like, hey, that's a good question.
00:31:24.662 --> 00:31:27.519
I thought about that and here's why I think this still makes sense.
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:36.706
For you know, whatever the reason is um, and and it's I mean go back to like traditional marketing, um, um, it's persona based.
00:31:36.706 --> 00:31:43.561
So this persona, the CRO, is going to say this and this is why cause this is what he or she cares about the CMO is going to think this way.
00:31:43.561 --> 00:31:46.104
The head of your demand gen team is going to think this way.
00:31:46.795 --> 00:31:48.923
And the CFO is getting a whole nother perspective the CFO.
00:31:49.022 --> 00:31:49.384
Absolutely.
00:31:49.384 --> 00:32:04.307
If your CFO is involved there, you better start talking CAC and and you know cost per everything and understanding that if you're going to get on that route and really being intentional, I think you you called it out like you know do the homework ahead of time so that you're ready for those conversations.
00:32:05.056 --> 00:32:17.605
Well, and and and maybe the one thing I would add to that is don't I mean, if you feel like you can't put yourself into those shoes cause you don't know that, be humble and go.
00:32:17.605 --> 00:32:21.478
Oh yeah, go ask for that input, right, and just, I've got this idea.
00:32:21.478 --> 00:32:28.769
Um, because I think every time I've done that, because I would be afraid to do that in the past, or like unsure, like why do I bother these people?
00:32:28.769 --> 00:32:45.062
I found that most people, if you have, if you've put some thought into it right and you're not're not coming in totally random, unless or if you set it up as hey, I've got an idea I just want to bounce off of you and it's like an open-ended conversation that, like, you're going to like people, they want to, they want to help.
00:32:46.435 --> 00:32:49.925
No, I think you're the way you approach those conversations.
00:32:49.925 --> 00:33:02.137
I don't think I've ever had a conversation like that where somebody was like no, screw you, like move it on Right it's.
00:33:02.137 --> 00:33:06.254
It's a really good way to do it, and I think people are more than happy to um, to have that conversation and to to give you feedback when it comes to that.
00:33:07.076 --> 00:33:08.177
Yeah, absolutely, I think that's.
00:33:08.177 --> 00:33:17.349
That's so true, all right, so show you at some point I can't remember exactly when, but you're now in this role out of DemandGen About two years ago, two years ago.
00:33:26.754 --> 00:33:37.274
So I went from individual contributor on marketing ops one person to senior manager, to a director, to a senior director all in marketing ops and so build a team from me to, essentially at 15 at the end, when I was still in marketing ops, at 15 at the end, when I was still in working ops.
00:33:39.254 --> 00:33:48.583
And then our head of demand gen left, our VP of demand gen left, our CMO approached me and said hey, I would like you to consider taking over demand gen and was not necessarily the career path I had laid out.
00:33:48.583 --> 00:33:52.625
I was like I don't know if I really see myself as a demand gen leader.
00:33:52.625 --> 00:33:54.562
Okay, let's talk about it.
00:33:54.562 --> 00:33:55.510
And so we talked about it.
00:33:55.510 --> 00:33:58.860
And so we talked about it and said, all right, let's, I'll do it for 90 days.
00:33:58.860 --> 00:34:16.144
Um, and then after 90 days, when I decide I don't want to do this anymore, um, you know, if you, if you decide you like I'm not doing well with it and it's not the right role, or if I decide that this is not the right fit for me, um, I would like to be able to reconsider, like going back or what are we going to do.
00:34:16.144 --> 00:34:18.742
And so we agreed like that's, that's the right approach.
00:34:18.742 --> 00:34:25.320
Um, and uh, here I am, two years later still doing yeah 90 days times.
00:34:25.700 --> 00:34:29.066
Uh, whatever the exactly right to 24 months, right?
00:34:29.447 --> 00:34:30.929
um, yeah, that's interesting.
00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:39.630
So it was, um, it was a kind of a mutual decision, but it actually started from your CMO, is that right?
00:34:40.255 --> 00:34:42.423
Yeah, it was definitely not my idea.
00:34:42.423 --> 00:34:51.021
So she was in town and wanted to have breakfast and so I'm like, yeah, sure, let's have breakfast.
00:34:51.021 --> 00:34:55.387
So she's like I know the VP of Demand Gen put in his resignation.
00:34:55.387 --> 00:34:58.921
I was like oh crap, oh right, okay, what are we going to?
00:34:58.961 --> 00:35:01.167
do like you know, trying to think like, who could we find?
00:35:01.167 --> 00:35:03.540
And she's like, well, I want to talk to you about that.
00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:05.766
But I was like, well, who do you have in mind?
00:35:05.766 --> 00:35:07.438
And she's like, how about you?
00:35:07.438 --> 00:35:08.501
And I was like, what do you mean?
00:35:08.501 --> 00:35:09.023
How about me?
00:35:09.023 --> 00:35:09.845
Why would I do this?
00:35:09.845 --> 00:35:11.777
And so, yeah, it was, it was a good conversation.
00:35:11.777 --> 00:35:13.440
It she was she.
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:14.141
She's awesome.
00:35:14.181 --> 00:35:24.187
She's not here anymore but she, you know, really intentional about career pathing and career planning and what, where do you, how do you want to approach your career and what's your next step?
00:35:24.187 --> 00:35:29.361
And kind of thinking about that, especially with her direct reports and leadership team, but really for the whole marketing team.
00:35:29.361 --> 00:35:37.171
And so she, I know she was very intentional about that for me and, talking through what I know, she was very intentional about that for me.
00:35:37.171 --> 00:35:42.970
And talking through what you know, do I want to go down the traditional RevOps route and take on more of a, a leader of RevOps?
00:35:42.970 --> 00:35:45.319
So, going from marketing ops to RevOps, do I want to be a CMO?
00:35:45.319 --> 00:35:45.680
Do I?
00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:48.740
You know what's the right path and I've always been.
00:35:48.740 --> 00:36:00.658
I always feel like there's two kinds of paths that people take in their career Some who know exactly what they want to do and they are like I'm going there and I'm aiming to that target and I, every decision and role that I take, is aimed for that.
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:03.124
And then others are like I really like what I do.
00:36:03.124 --> 00:36:08.056
I'm ready to do more, but I'm not really sure what that is and when the opportunity presents itself like yep, that sounds good.
00:36:08.076 --> 00:36:09.978
I'm going to move and I'm certainly more of the latter.
00:36:09.978 --> 00:36:14.383
I've never been like I want to be a CMO and that's all I want to do, and I'm going to keep going there.
00:36:14.383 --> 00:36:19.970
If you told me, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I said CMO.
00:36:19.970 --> 00:36:27.017
I didn't know what a CMO does right it certainly wasn't the path or anything like that, but it just you're the opportunist, not the planner.
00:36:27.017 --> 00:36:29.720
Yeah, I think that's a good succinct way of saying it.
00:36:31.062 --> 00:36:34.186
Yeah, I, I, I think there's a little bit of that in me as well.
00:36:34.186 --> 00:36:39.796
So now MarketingOps doesn't report to you, right, correct.
00:36:39.796 --> 00:36:47.107
How is that now, where you're kind of a I can't believe I'm going to use this word internal customer of theirs?
00:36:47.147 --> 00:36:49.231
Yeah, no, it's a good call.
00:36:49.231 --> 00:36:52.118
So when I moved over, MarketingOps reported to me for those 90 days.
00:36:52.118 --> 00:37:03.251
When I moved over, marketing ops reported to me for those 90 days and then, fairly soon after, we had a separate marketing ops, separate sales ops, separate customer success ops teams.
00:37:03.251 --> 00:37:15.155
We brought into a formal kind of go-to-market ops team, merged it all together, centralized everything.
00:37:15.155 --> 00:37:18.224
We soon after that decided to just go rev ops instead of go, instead of go to market ops, sales ops, marketing ops together.
00:37:18.224 --> 00:37:19.760
So that's how it's been since then.
00:37:20.095 --> 00:37:22.444
Um, I won't say it's been easy.
00:37:22.444 --> 00:37:29.067
I think, um, some of the being embedded in marketing, I think it can work in other cases.
00:37:29.067 --> 00:37:40.639
I would always start there Like you can, any a company can can have a centralized RevOps function, it can be fully functioning work rate and a company can have a dedicated marketing ops function.
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:46.142
It could be horrible and not work well and I think a lot of it's involved with the people and the, the approach that people take.
00:37:46.142 --> 00:38:01.338
I think it we have been challenged, I think from a resource perspective and I think just getting that kind of like not letting sales consume everything which can you know that's?
00:38:01.378 --> 00:38:03.464
a tendency that I think a lot of people have seen right.
00:38:03.464 --> 00:38:11.879
Sales consumes all the resources because the CRO is who everybody is looking towards to drive the business, because that's where bookings come from.
00:38:11.879 --> 00:38:15.887
So it certainly has been a change and a challenge.
00:38:15.887 --> 00:38:22.015
I have to be pretty proactive with kind of pushing to be a little more proactive on their side of where.
00:38:22.015 --> 00:38:25.868
Before I think we saw a little bit more of that.
00:38:25.868 --> 00:38:29.201
Where we're embedded in marketing, we were looking at the data a lot more closely.
00:38:29.201 --> 00:38:30.607
We're in the systems day to day.
00:38:30.607 --> 00:38:33.418
We're partnering together a little bit more closely.
00:38:33.418 --> 00:38:37.007
I'd say in the past four months three, four months it's gotten a lot better.
00:38:37.007 --> 00:38:40.083
We've really been intentional about making some strides there.
00:38:40.083 --> 00:38:43.102
We still have some gaps, so I think it's different.
00:38:43.102 --> 00:38:47.046
I think the good is that I can.
00:38:47.067 --> 00:39:16.550
you know, I know the systems and I know the data, and so I will get into the data when I need to and you know if I'm not in a lot of meetings, which is all the time yeah, my, my, uh, my role or my uh day-to-day has shifted a lot, but, um, I can find some of those and then call those out to them and and, um, and look at it that way, I think the other thing maybe that, um, I have some empathy for what they go through and where they're at, and so I try to convey that to them, but also to my broader team.
00:39:16.975 --> 00:39:22.688
Like you know, somebody is frustrated with a lack of response or whatever it might be.
00:39:22.688 --> 00:39:25.301
I can be like, well, let me give you a little context.
00:39:25.301 --> 00:39:29.180
Here's why it's not as simple as just they click a magic button and it's done.
00:39:29.180 --> 00:39:35.887
Here's all the steps that they have to take, and so, like, I agree, it's frustrating, but here's why that, um, maybe that's the case.
00:39:35.887 --> 00:39:43.597
Or here's how we can be a little bit more, uh, descriptive and give them the full scope of what they need to do.
00:39:43.617 --> 00:39:47.266
I, I'd say like help them, help us right, absolutely like if.
00:39:47.386 --> 00:39:50.910
If we can help give them these answers, then they're going to be able to respond quicker.
00:39:50.910 --> 00:39:51.534
That kind of.
00:39:51.554 --> 00:40:00.528
Yeah, uh, you just touched on like the way the nature of your day-to-day work or week-to-week work has changed since you've gotten into into.
00:40:00.528 --> 00:40:07.206
It's probably changed from going from an individual contributor to managing people right, and now you're managing other managers.
00:40:07.206 --> 00:40:10.057
So, like, what are the big?
00:40:10.057 --> 00:40:22.383
What are the big things that, um, you've you've had to like learn to be more effective, but and maybe I think we've talked to a number of people who are like managers of people, which is great.
00:40:22.383 --> 00:40:23.206
I'm curious about that.
00:40:23.206 --> 00:40:31.369
But I'm also like we haven't talked to a lot of people who are managers of other managers and in my experience, that's got its own set of sort of additional nuances.
00:40:31.369 --> 00:40:37.819
That, um, because you think you're like coaching a person, about how to coach another person, sometimes right things like that.
00:40:37.819 --> 00:40:46.345
So like what, what are the kind of the skills that you've had to kind of really um, invest in getting better at in your new roles?
00:40:46.826 --> 00:40:53.788
yeah, I I would say, if you so, someone that is managing just managers, um, versus somebody that is managing managers and individual contributors, that's probably the hardest.
00:40:53.788 --> 00:40:54.108
The latter is.
00:40:54.108 --> 00:40:57.478
Managing managers and individual contributors, that's probably the hardest.
00:40:57.478 --> 00:41:27.997
The latter is just because and it just depending on the scope and the skillset of the individual contributor and the managers, when you're having to go both sides, it gets really tricky because you have to get a little bit more tactical and more into the weeds and it's that is probably the most challenging aspect of as you move up in the career is, like you're, you know I'm in meetings all the time with our cmo, our cro, our uh head of rev ops, and you know, last night I was in meetings with our cfo and our c?
00:41:28.237 --> 00:41:38.207
Uh, our ceo, and so you're the the level of discussion that we're having and the I'm producing a lot of information and reporting and PowerPoint decks and that kind of thing.
00:41:38.207 --> 00:41:54.757
Like it's a very executive level summary, like here's, I have to distill all this information that's happening in a, two slides and tell you simply, succinctly here's what is happening, here's the trend, here's what we need to do about it, and I might get five minutes of your attention, because you got a thousand other things to do, right.
00:41:55.298 --> 00:42:09.202
But, then if I have to go to an individual contributor and talk through like here's, here's the email that you need to send in the list that we need to get, so let me help you get to that, that is very challenging and so I I don't have that now.
00:42:09.202 --> 00:42:13.630
I have had that um where I had kind of a combination of the two Um.
00:42:13.630 --> 00:42:25.497
I think that the focus it really is like the managing up, managing down and the level of communication, that what, how detailed you get, how you roll up the information.
00:42:25.497 --> 00:42:35.160
So I think what I have to do now a lot is take eight different, nine different sources of information and what people are telling me's what's happening.
00:42:35.160 --> 00:42:37.644
Here's what I'm seeing in my different channel or my area.
00:42:38.747 --> 00:42:41.016
Summarize that try to see the trends.
00:42:41.016 --> 00:42:51.152
Okay, so if I, um, if I take you know this thing happening, all right, so roughly 80 of the stuff is this, and so if we focus on that, we can change 80 of the business.
00:42:51.152 --> 00:42:59.649
So we're going to focus there and trying to take all that information, distill it down so that I can show the trends and talk to my boss, talk to our CRO, talk to the rest of the team.
00:42:59.649 --> 00:43:02.905
Here's where we need to put our focus on, here's what we're doing about it.
00:43:04.216 --> 00:43:07.850
Trying to get in front of that, I think, is where I spend probably most of my time.
00:43:07.850 --> 00:43:20.056
It's probably 60 or 70% of my time is in building, uh, building presentations and board decks and that kind of thing, as well as in meetings and talking through, like, the trends and how we're going to fix things.
00:43:20.056 --> 00:43:25.938
And then the other time is spent with my leaders and just uh, working with them and and helping them.
00:43:25.938 --> 00:43:34.442
I have an amazing leadership team that, uh, they're easy to to lead because they're really good, um, and so I I think we have a really good team.
00:43:34.442 --> 00:43:39.080
I'm, of course, biased, but I do think that that helps and it makes my life a lot easier.
00:43:39.883 --> 00:43:40.465
Yeah, that's great.
00:43:40.465 --> 00:43:45.988
Yeah, I mean I wish we had more time, because I would love to go deeper in a lot of that.
00:43:45.988 --> 00:43:50.222
Unfortunately, we're going to have to probably wrap it up here, but, Rick, thank you so much.
00:43:50.222 --> 00:43:56.848
It's been interesting and I think it's going to be really helpful for a lot of people who are out there listening or watching.
00:43:56.848 --> 00:44:03.748
If folks want to, you know, is it okay if they reach out to you or follow you?
00:44:03.748 --> 00:44:05.783
What's the best way for them to do that?
00:44:06.036 --> 00:44:09.626
Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the easiest path.
00:44:09.626 --> 00:44:14.752
If you're not connected with me on LinkedIn, send me a message or just send a connection request.
00:44:14.752 --> 00:44:15.735
It's Rick Collins.
00:44:16.095 --> 00:44:16.677
Reference the podcast.
00:44:16.677 --> 00:44:16.978
How about?
00:44:16.978 --> 00:44:17.519
How about that?
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:19.182
yeah, there you get reference the podcast.
00:44:19.444 --> 00:44:38.624
Um, if you, I I've uh spoke at uh masa palooza in uh in the fall, or I guess it was the winter that was the fall sale it was in november, right, um, I told I told people that were in the session that I spoke at, like, if you have a sales title, just reference that you were here, because I get a lot of sales outreaches.
00:44:38.624 --> 00:44:47.262
And so now I love my sales people, but I get so many outreaches I typically won't accept it, because if I'm going to get pitched right away then yeah, that's not really what I'm looking for.
00:44:47.262 --> 00:44:50.216
But so if you do have that, I'll still connect with you.
00:44:50.216 --> 00:44:52.239
If you let me know that you heard me on the podcast.
00:44:52.459 --> 00:44:52.940
There you go.
00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:53.380
Awesome.
00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:54.321
Well, I appreciate it.
00:44:54.321 --> 00:44:57.646
Um well, which means they also listened all the way through, which is great.
00:44:57.786 --> 00:44:58.667
There you go, that's right.
00:44:58.767 --> 00:45:01.290
Yeah, Um, yeah.
00:45:01.290 --> 00:45:03.701
Well, great Rick is, it was time to let tough on.
00:45:03.701 --> 00:45:05.402
I'm so glad we were able to make this work.
00:45:05.402 --> 00:45:12.985
I appreciate it, Um, so anyway.
00:45:12.985 --> 00:45:14.167
So, yeah, to our, to our audience.
00:45:14.167 --> 00:45:16.611
Again, thank you for uh supporting us.
00:45:16.611 --> 00:45:27.345
Uh, thank you for your ideas for guests and topics and, as always, if you have a suggestion for a topic or a guest or want to be a guest, reach out to Naomi, Mike or me and we'd be happy to talk to you about it.
00:45:27.345 --> 00:45:28.649
Until next time, Bye everybody.