Career Growth and the MAGIC Framework with Carrie Fabris

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Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of OpsCast brought to you by MarketingOpscom.
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I'm your host, michael Hartman.
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I am joined by just our guest again today.
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So the guest today is Keri Fabris, who is the founder and chief reframer of CareerFrame, where she provides career executive coaching, leadership development, advising and facilitating, with a focus on team dynamics.
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Prior to launching CareerFrame, she spent 20 plus years with companies like Google, travelocity, sabre and more, and in leadership for 15 plus years leading national sales and account management teams.
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She uses tools like Clifton's StrengthFinder, emotional intelligence, situational leadership and various other frameworks, some of which we will discuss here today, to help leaders and teams thrive at effective communication that drives engagement, energy and accountability toward impactful results.
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You've got a great background, keri, so thank you for joining us today.
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It's such a pleasure.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, I think this is going to be good.
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I think when we talked before, I think I was yeah, is this something that would be for everybody, for people who are leaders?
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And I think it's going to be the former right, so, but I'm looking forward to talk to you about your career growth and having you share some of your recommendations from your experience, both in the seats, if you will, as well as being a coach, mentor, whatever.
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So why don't we start there?
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One of the things that you a term that you used with me when we first talked was this concept of return on energy, which I think I was having a hard time articulating what you mean by that.
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So why don't we start there?
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What do you mean by that, and how can our listeners, whether they're individual contributors or people managers, apply this?
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Say today, tomorrow, right, this week.
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Yeah, happy to dive into that, and yes, I don't know that this is going to be a typical episode of what your audience is used to living or listening to.
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We don't have a typical episode.
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Not the marketing expert, definitely the leadership and leadership expert and just helping people be the better version of themselves at work and in life as well.
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And so return on energy, or what I also call ROE, is this concept that I came up with.
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Energy is really important to me personally, and I'm you know how we feel so different when our energy is high, when our energy is low.
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So started playing with this concept and, if you think about it, it's very similar to an ROI.
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Okay, so we're all familiar with ROI and that's primarily a concept and method that is going to help us assess financial performance and return.
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And so ROE return on energy is a concept or method that's used more for assessing your energy level or the worth or the reserve of energy that you're using towards something.
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So, for example, if we are faced with doing a task, committing to a decision, making a choice, most of us innately are going to have a feeling that either we like this or we don't like this.
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Sometimes there's a I'm not sure I need more context, I don't know enough about it and, as a certified Gallup Clifton strengths coach, I want to emphasize the importance of playing to one's strengths.
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And so that was that mean to play to our strengths.
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It means that we're doing things that we innately enjoy because they energize us versus drain us.
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Um, we'll get energized doing certain things, but we will also get drained by doing certain things, and so how we apply this concept is kind of simple, and let me set this up by saying your vibe attracts your tribe.
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You ever heard that saying?
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No, I mean it sounds like a birds of a feather kind of thing.
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But yeah, it makes sense.
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I saw it in a Dove chocolate wrapper one time, not going to lie and I was like love this but it is basically your vibe attracts your tribe.
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Which is what you're putting out, is kind of what you're going to get back.
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Yes.
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And so you know sometimes when you're like, are you vibing?
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Are you vibing right now?
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If you look at it as a vibe, is it a good vibe or is it a not awesome vibe?
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Are you high, are you low with how you're feeling?
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So when we look at this very simple four-step process of figuring out your return on energy, first step is verify your feelings.
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Okay, so kind of check in with yourself.
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How does this task decision situation make you feel?
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Does it excite you, motivate you or drain you from an energy perspective?
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If it feels exhausting, before you even begin, you probably want to pause and assess.
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Second step is identifying the impact, so kind of evaluating what's the potential payoff for what I'm about to do with this task, commitment or choice.
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Is it going to move you forward?
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Is it going to strengthen a relationship?
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Is it going to create something meaningful?
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If the outcome's valuable, it's probably worth the energy.
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If it's not, you want to reconsider.
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And then the third step is really going to balance the cost, or consider what it's going to cost you from a time, effort, emotional bandwidth, money perspective, and can your energy be spent better elsewhere, or is this the right path?
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So if the investment's too high for a little gain, you want to look for alternatives.
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If the investment short or long-term which I'm sure we'll get to talking about that as far as living in a world of immediate gratification these days then you might want to stay the course.
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And then the fourth step is execute or eliminate.
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So if the energy is well spent, if it fuels the growth and success moving forward, execute it.
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If it depletes you and you cannot feel good and justify the return, you let it go.
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And you don't want to get it.
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So when we first talked about this concept of energy, I actually thought of a different assessment.
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I thought of Myers-Briggs, where you have the introversion, extroversion right, which has got that whole yeah, great.
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One Like you get energy or you lose energy in either domain, depending on what your preference is.
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So I mean, are you talking about because I think, I think, I think a lot of our listeners like me might think, oh, when you talk about re-eternity, that means like I'm going to be the cheerleader, I'm going to be extroverted, like extroverted Is.
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I mean, is that what you're talking about or is this something like?
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if I'm an introvert, cause I might be going like that's really hard for me, it is going to be draining to do that.
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So how does that play into this?
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Is it different related?
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Yeah, great question.
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So it's not necessarily dependent on extrovert, introvert, because extroverts and introverts, regardless of which category you fall in, you're still a human, you're still uniquely you, and energy lands differently for you, Sure?
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So, you know, kind of stereotypical introvert needs time away from people, quiet, alone time to decompress and kind of build that energy back up.
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That's just that depends on the person.
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Extroverts might get more energy from walking in a room, socializing and meeting new people, but I'm talking more about each person's innate feeling of am I feeling energized today on various levels, various categories, or am I depleted?
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So, like you and I are both in the DFW area and the weather is like we're living in London right now, and I love, I love London, one of my favorite cities.
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I thought about that every day this week.
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This weather is like I'm like where is the sun?
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I need the sun, right yeah, and it is impacting me energetically and so it's it's more that it's kind of like what impacts us based on our personality type so.
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So it's also not motivation.
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I mean, you're talking about something that's got bits and pieces I think of like introversion, extroversion, motivation, not motivated, not motivated.
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It feels like yeah, okay.
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And there's another bit and I think it was the third step you described where you're kind of doing a mental calculation.
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It almost sounds like within ROE that process, you're doing an ROI right Like a mini one right Because it's a balance the cost.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a juice worth the squeeze, right.
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Yes, yes, it is very much an investment.
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It's an investment of your energy versus an investment of dollars, which, within energy, it's an investment of time and an investment of emotions.
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It's basically the human side, the human skills of what you're investing.
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So just one more thing and then we can maybe move on.
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But, um, the another thought that comes to me, like, like, I love this idea, right, investing time into things that are going to produce results, that are also not going to completely drain, if it's of energy at the same time.
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Almost all this, and like this is a lesson I've had to teach my kids.
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Right, we all have to do things we don't really want to do sometimes.
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So how does that factor into this, right?
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Do you just kind of like figure out, okay, what is it?
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What level of energy do I need to put towards this that I don't really want to do, because I have to do it, but I don't want to end up not be able to do the things I do want to do.
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Yeah, when it comes to, when it comes, to put you know, assessing, putting energy towards something you don't want to do, that's where I think this method and this concept is really important, because, as part of the evaluation process or the assessing and the balancing, the cost and things like that is can I see?
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Can I see the gain?
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So there's something that I say often to my clients, which is pain is the road to joy.
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Unfortunately, most times I have yet not saying it's not there, but I've yet to find a situation where you got joy without pain.
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So it is assessing the whole cycle Again.
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A lot of us live in this immediate gratification I want to feel good right now, and a lot of times that's not the case.
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We have to be able to look to the future and just say can I see this paying off?
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And being responsible sucks sometimes.
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Yeah, it does.
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It's not fine.
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You have to be responsible.
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If we can see what that responsibility can lead to in the future and it's a good thing, then that's where we tap into resilience, we tap into courage, we tap into growth, mindset, all of these things to get there.
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Some things are going to be pretty immediate.
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You might think, oh my gosh, this sounds amazing.
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It's totally my jam.
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I love this stuff.
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Let's go.
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You focus on it, you act, you get the great results you want the conclusion you were hoping for Everyone's happy, amazing, immediate, aren't we?
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Other times again, you've got to see the importance in the future and it's the long, sometimes hard work ahead to achieve that desired return.
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But you're still going to invest that energy because there's a higher purpose that's pulling you to do so.
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So return might be a delay.
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Yeah, I mean, I think that that that scenario you're talking about, where there's a longer term delay, I immediately go towards leadership things like where you're trying to, you know, coach or mentor somebody who maybe is not performing as well as they could, and you see that and you want to help them.
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Right, it takes time to invest in that.
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That and like startups, people, founders of startups, like they have this vision, they have this dream, they birthed this baby and they've got to.
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You know, they got to go and get capital on them, they got to fundraise, they got to build the team and most startups don't just.
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Oh my gosh, instant you started this last week, I'd like to buy you for $1 billion, like that doesn't work that way.
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So that's a perfect example of investing the energy for that hopefully high return later down the road.
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And then there you know again there's other quick wins Like I really want a burger right now.
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I'm going to get in my car and go get a burger.
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I'm going to take my energy and go drive down the street and you get that burger and you're eating it.
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You're so happy.
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So it just depends.
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And what I love about this concept is you literally can apply it to absolutely everything.
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Just to maximize your time, your energy, what you're focusing on and and and.
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When we do this, it ensures that we're staying at that high energy level.
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A whole lot of not awesome stuff follows when our energy is low.
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Yeah, our mind goes in not great places.
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So this immediate gratification kind of concept, you know it.
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It maybe it's because I haven't really traveled a lot of places, I've, you know, but it feels like it's a particularly American, maybe Western kind of scenario where people are just expecting go, go, go, go, go go.
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And younger and younger people.
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Yeah, I mean it's how does like, how does like, how do we, how do we help our listeners think about this return on energy when fig the, the return part is down the road?
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Right, how do they?
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How do, can they think about that?
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yeah, so.
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So this is where um and again this is, this is human skills.
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We're talking about predominantly right and the, and I talk about mich, and so this is when I encourage people to stop and kind of do an RPM, which is what's the result I'm going for, what's the purpose, what's the massive action I need to take, and it's once you understand why you want something so badly.
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The next step is patience and making sure that each day, you're doing something that's moving you forward.
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Um if you are not doing things that are moving you forward and you're just expecting it to land in your lap.
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You know there might be some growth opportunity there to think about this differently.
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Um, as I said, I think with the Maybe a little bit of adulting.
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That needs to happen.
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Yeah, I was going to say with, with, with younger, with younger people, and you and I have kids, I think, that are similar to the same age and I know they're not listening to this podcast.
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But younger generations have grown up with immediate.
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We remember before there were cell phones and before there was the fax machine, you had to go to the library to look up something.
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Yeah, a microfiche, microfiche, yeah.
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People were like what is?
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microfiche, what is that?
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And dial-up and just all that stuff.
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And so it is learning how to be patient and understanding that.
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You know, sometimes we speed up.
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I mean we slow down to speed up.
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Yes.
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It's the classic.
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Sorry to get all cheesy, but it's the tortoise and the hare kind of thing.
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Sometimes slow and steady wins the race.
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So it is ready, ready aim fire, sort of ready fire aim right.
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Yes, yes, exactly so.
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It's active practice and awareness of how much you want something.
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Think about how much energy you're putting into, how badly you want this thing right now and you're not going to get it right now.
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Is that thought process a good ROE?
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Probably not Right.
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So even when we're thinking about our energy, we can do an ROE process on the thought about energy and that gratification.
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Well, I mean, I'm sure everyone has had a scenario like, oh, I need to put away six things, right, I have two hands and two arms.
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I could carry them all, but the likelihood that I'll make it to the destination, like putting food away or something, and a number of times I've done that and then drop something.
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So I was thinking I'm doing something that could go quickly and it turns out to be taking two, three, four times as long because I dropped something.
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It splatters everywhere, Something breaks right?
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Yeah, because you're moving too fast.
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Yeah, or I'm, or I'm.
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I think that's.
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That's a scenario that one's hitting home, because this actually happened in my house Not with me last week, same friend.
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Well, earlier you asked about um.
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You know how to apply this in in the spirit of immediate gratification.
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So I've got some examples for your for you all, your listeners around at the end of workplace, for example, for you, all your listeners around in the workplace, for example.
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So some things that can be immediate ROE is delegation.
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So if you're just spinning your wheels, working on something, it's not in your strength zone, or if you're a leader and you have someone on your team that you can move something to delegate it.
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Just give something to someone that you trust, take it off your plate, you know it's taken care of and you're going to reserve your energy instead of like an exhausting email thread back and forth.
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Okay, that's another thing.
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Just like back and forth, back and forth.
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Just go old school, pick up the phone, discuss everything for about five minutes, and that too is an immediate ROE, because there's clarity, we got understanding, we're not having any emails on this topic.
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And another very simple application of ROE that I would love to see more people take advantage of, and a lot do not hurts my heart a little bit which is taking breaks throughout the day.
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Okay, so work 50.
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Yeah, we all are.
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But work 50 minutes, 5-0, step away for 10.
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Watch your productivity and your energy increase.
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I mean, taking that 10-minute break is going to help you work smarter, not harder, and that is an instant positive ROE.
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I recently I'm not sure what took me so long to do this, but last year I moved all of my 60 minute sessions to 50 minute sessions.
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Dramatic impact, positive impact, Like I would look at my calendar and perhaps some of you can relate to this and it is non-freaking-stop Zoom after Zoom after Zoom after Zoom, or team after team after team to call after call.
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It's just like non-stop.
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Stop, Zoom after zoom after zoom after zoom, or team after team after team to call after call.
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It's just like nonstop.
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And it was causing me stress just to look at the visual of it.
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And just changing to those 15 minute sessions, that gives me 10 minutes to stand up, walk away, refill the water, shake it off, prepare for the next meeting, decompress from the last meeting.
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Yeah.
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Makes such an amazing difference and it's a it is an immediate impact on ROE.
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Yeah, an amazing difference and it's a.
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It is an immediate impact on roe.
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Yeah, and I'd like it was true, it's.
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I feel.
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I almost feel guilty about this because I know all this right, yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with at least was with brain research and how well, first off, how little we know, but how much we're learning in the last few years and they, every time we talk about this right Breaks, not multitasking, like all these things are really well known to be good habits to do, and I still am terrible about it.
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Just like people are going to see me drinking water here.
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It's about the only time I drink water through the day because I just simply forget I get busy.
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There's a lot of achievers through the day because I just simply forget I get busy.
00:19:03.303 --> 00:19:04.888
There's a lot of achievers From a strengths perspective.
00:19:04.888 --> 00:19:08.721
Achiever is the number one talent theme that shows up the most often in top five.
00:19:08.721 --> 00:19:12.750
Okay, case in point, and achievers are usually heads down.
00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:13.372
I got to crank it out.
00:19:13.372 --> 00:19:22.693
I got stuff to do and it's a different concept to think you could actually do more if you took breaks throughout the day.
00:19:22.693 --> 00:19:26.553
So yeah, I'm here to help you figure that out, michael.
00:19:26.553 --> 00:19:27.440
Thank you, I appreciate it.
00:19:28.242 --> 00:19:29.126
I need that nudge.
00:19:29.126 --> 00:19:32.106
It's interesting the idea of delegation.
00:19:32.106 --> 00:19:44.300
I think a lot of people who especially if they're this is one of the things when I coach people who are new to people management delegation is one that seems like it'd be an obvious one where you can gain some advantage.
00:19:44.300 --> 00:19:49.401
But it's really hard for these people, because it was hard for me too.
00:19:49.401 --> 00:19:52.971
What's really hard is to to to hand this off to somebody.
00:19:52.971 --> 00:19:57.568
You can't just go go do it Right, unless you happen to have somebody who works for you, you know can do it.
00:19:57.568 --> 00:19:59.569
Do it If it's something, a new skill or new things that they have to learn.
00:19:59.569 --> 00:20:00.913
Somebody who works for you, you know, can do it.
00:20:00.913 --> 00:20:03.417
Do it If it's something, a new skill or new things that they have to learn.
00:20:03.417 --> 00:20:03.939
You have to teach them.
00:20:03.939 --> 00:20:04.579
So you have to invest in that.
00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:06.846
Right, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.
00:20:06.905 --> 00:20:09.091
Well, that that and trust them.
00:20:09.472 --> 00:20:09.713
Yes.
00:20:09.793 --> 00:20:13.101
So people who have, you know, are high responsibility.
00:20:13.101 --> 00:20:24.306
They, they said they would get something done to somebody else, and so the thought of passing it to someone else is like, oh my gosh, but what if they don't do it right?
00:20:24.306 --> 00:20:34.469
So the adage of I'll just do it myself, because it'll be faster than do it myself, versus teaching someone how to do it, and then you're just stuck in this loop.
00:20:34.469 --> 00:20:46.705
So yeah, so I do encourage people if they have trust issues, do not delegate anything to that person if you don't trust them, because it's got to be like hand it off and let go.
00:20:46.705 --> 00:20:48.670
Otherwise you're annoying, like how about now?
00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:49.270
Did you get it done?
00:20:49.270 --> 00:20:50.052
Well, how about now?
00:20:50.052 --> 00:20:50.814
Are you doing it right?
00:20:50.814 --> 00:20:55.585
And now it becomes micromanagement, and no one wants that, not that I have met so far.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.801
I have not met anyone who's admitted.
00:20:57.801 --> 00:21:02.465
I've never run into anyone who would admit that they want, like, being micromanaged.
00:21:02.465 --> 00:21:06.690
I have had people who I've worked with who were better when they were micromanaged.
00:21:06.690 --> 00:21:09.751
I just never said that Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:09.751 --> 00:21:15.116
And maybe micromanage is not this like constant follow-up, but more like here's the list of things you need to do.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:24.213
Right, well, that's also classic situational leadership, as far as how we step up to lead someone based on how they need to be led.
00:21:24.654 --> 00:21:24.835
Yes.
00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:30.113
And some people do need to be told because, on a specific task, because their ability and willingness is low.
00:21:30.113 --> 00:21:35.090
If they have high willingness but low ability, we coach them, we don't tell them.
00:21:35.090 --> 00:21:35.812
We coach them.
00:21:35.812 --> 00:21:42.280
And then if there's low ability or high ability, low willingness, it's usually insecurity, so we encourage them.
00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:42.899
And when there's high ability or high ability, low willingness, it's usually insecurity, so we encourage them.
00:21:42.899 --> 00:21:45.747
And when there's high ability and high willingness, we trust them.
00:21:47.330 --> 00:21:52.091
Yeah, that was a boom, like flash of situational leadership right there in like 10 seconds or less.
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:53.741
No, I mean at that point.
00:21:53.741 --> 00:22:00.575
Another thing that I do with a lot of new leaders is, like your job is to adapt to your team, right?
00:22:00.575 --> 00:22:06.912
Not the other way around, yes, so yeah, you need to play the whole play to their strengths scenario.
00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:09.607
So, um, all right.
00:22:09.607 --> 00:22:16.663
So another concept you and I talked about is this, uh, magic framework, which I know is an acronym.
00:22:16.663 --> 00:22:21.205
Acronym, um, what, what is that and how is it?
00:22:21.205 --> 00:22:23.821
Maybe a little bit about like just high level, what is that?
00:22:23.821 --> 00:22:34.451
Maybe is it tied to what we just talked about, the roe, or is it kind of a different concept altogether yeah, so there definitely is some similarities.
00:22:35.094 --> 00:22:46.894
um, I think we all need a little magic in our lives, especially at work, and this has nothing to do with spells and wands and Harry Potter, even though I'm a huge fan.
00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:55.644
This is just another simple framework to check yourself, to make sure you are bringing the magic to your team.
00:22:55.644 --> 00:22:59.730
And how do you know if you are doing that, when you can take inventory on five categories.
00:22:59.730 --> 00:23:10.584
Doing that, when you can take inventory on five categories, so it's mindset, accountability, generosity, intention and courage.
00:23:10.584 --> 00:23:13.740
And if you have all of these and they're also coming from a positive place of strengths, then you're definitely bringing magic to your team.
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:17.591
So it's a fun concept to work with.
00:23:17.591 --> 00:23:19.459
Do you want me to go deeper?
00:23:19.479 --> 00:23:19.680
on those.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:31.740
Yeah, I mean, we'd love to go like so let me replay so, mindset, accountability, generosity, which is an interesting one by itself, attention encourage, so, yeah, so maybe walk through those one at a time, yeah.
00:23:32.262 --> 00:23:33.186
Okay, so, yeah.
00:23:33.186 --> 00:23:40.105
So when we think about mindset, back to what I said your vibe attracts your tribe, okay, and what you're putting out is kind of what you're going to get.
00:23:40.105 --> 00:23:47.581
One of my favorite quotes is a Tony Robbins quote, actually, and it says where focus goes, energy flows.
00:23:47.581 --> 00:23:55.709
And so it's again that same thing when you're putting something out, you're going to get back that reflects what you're putting back.
00:23:55.709 --> 00:24:05.269
So, when it comes to mindset, absolutely figure out your ROE when it comes to how you're thinking and all the energy you're spending thinking about things.
00:24:05.269 --> 00:24:07.407
And is it positive thinking, is it negative thinking?
00:24:07.407 --> 00:24:12.653
And when I say positive, I don't mean jazz hands, everything's awesome.
00:24:12.653 --> 00:24:14.346
That's not realistic.
00:24:14.346 --> 00:24:23.410
It's more of having this optimism, and so it's growth mindset versus a fixed mindset, it's open versus closed.
00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:29.712
It's, you know, realizing that our attitudes are contagious and it impacts the culture around us.
00:24:29.712 --> 00:24:38.825
So having that strong, encouraging mindset is really important as a leader, especially the A.
00:24:38.825 --> 00:24:43.253
So showing accountability, and this is having a high say-do ratio.
00:24:43.253 --> 00:24:57.040
It's doing what you say you will do, it's being reliable, it's responsible, it's role modeling, that for other people and holding others accountable as well, and so accountability and productivity go hand in hand.
00:24:57.040 --> 00:25:10.545
And so nothing drives me more nuts than a leader that basically do as I say, not as I do, and it's like why would people want to follow you if you're not going to show that you're accountable as well?
00:25:11.308 --> 00:25:14.500
And then generosity, like you said, is kind of an interesting one.
00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:17.443
This is really where emotional intelligence lives.
00:25:17.443 --> 00:25:22.689
So this is about being generous with your compassion and with the human side.
00:25:22.689 --> 00:25:42.754
Okay, so if you know empathy is I work with a lot of leaders who actually have low empathy, according to their assessment, and always tell them I'm like doesn't mean you don't care, it means that it's uncomfortable, it's not, it drains you to get in the boat with that person and their issue.
00:25:43.899 --> 00:25:45.523
You can still be generous with.
00:25:45.523 --> 00:25:48.088
I see you, are you okay?
00:25:48.088 --> 00:25:50.213
Is there something I can help you with?
00:25:50.213 --> 00:25:53.185
I'll let you know if I can or cannot deliver to that.
00:25:53.185 --> 00:26:00.223
And really being that compassionate leader, it's also keeping in mind.
00:26:00.223 --> 00:26:08.288
I kind of cringe whenever I hear someone say remove all emotion from this conversation, because humans cannot do that.
00:26:08.288 --> 00:26:16.974
Humans cannot physically, neurologically, all of the things cannot remove all emotion.
00:26:16.974 --> 00:26:27.532
But we can use our emotion intelligently and we can be generous with our time and our energy that we're giving to somebody, as long as we're seeing again a return on that.
00:26:27.532 --> 00:26:35.341
Energy Leaders sometimes they put up with too much for too long from poor performers and that's a drain on energy.
00:26:35.402 --> 00:26:38.991
So it's being generous to a point, but not to a fault.
00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:39.961
So is there?
00:26:39.961 --> 00:26:45.586
The word that keeps coming to my head is another G word, which is grace right, which I think is part of this.
00:26:45.586 --> 00:27:02.546
Maybe that's what you're getting to, but I always think it's funny, because we've talked about trust right and trusting in others, but I have always said, like, trust also requires grace right, so when someone you know doesn't live up to what you had expected them to do, there's some grace to a point, right, that's that like.
00:27:02.546 --> 00:27:03.731
I love that these all go together.
00:27:03.731 --> 00:27:08.668
Right, the accountability and the generosity sound like they would be opposites, but they can.
00:27:08.668 --> 00:27:09.892
I think they the way you look.
00:27:09.892 --> 00:27:12.107
You need to look at them as things that can work together.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.086
Totally can work together and you know it's.
00:27:17.086 --> 00:27:20.830
It's a great reminder that all of us are going through something.
00:27:20.830 --> 00:27:23.434
All of us have our own journeys.
00:27:23.434 --> 00:27:27.523
We have our own experiences, our own pasts.
00:27:27.523 --> 00:27:32.782
We're thrown together at work with this team that we didn't choose right and we're just supposed to.
00:27:32.782 --> 00:27:34.269
Everything's supposed to be great and good luck.
00:27:34.269 --> 00:27:44.362
And so, having grace, giving grace, generosity, you know, things like the patience, things like that you don't have to really like the person.
00:27:44.362 --> 00:27:51.788
It's more of just taking the time to appreciate your generosity could even be I'm going to step away and I'm going to let you go, do you?
00:27:51.788 --> 00:27:58.730
So you're being generous with not doing this to them like rah, rah, rah right and verbally attacking.
00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:00.462
Just be generous and step away.
00:28:00.462 --> 00:28:04.767
So yeah, so I could absolutely see how grace and generosity can go hand in hand.
00:28:04.767 --> 00:28:06.372
Got it Okay?
00:28:06.372 --> 00:28:09.348
The I in magic is intention.
00:28:09.951 --> 00:28:10.595
Intention okay.
00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:16.052
And it's simple, it's lead with purpose and meaning and it's kind of all of the above.
00:28:16.052 --> 00:28:25.535
It's the mindset, it's the accountability, it's the generosity, it's being intentional and being a clear communicator, taking action with intention.
00:28:25.535 --> 00:28:34.560
And you know, a great example of this was with remote workers Okay, when?
00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:53.000
So I've always led a remote team, dating back to 2007, when I started my leadership career at Google and I was in Dallas, leading a team in Atlanta, and there was no this, there was no video then, right, like we had go-to meeting where you want to see my desktop, but there wasn't the video piece.
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.866
Right, and you had to be intentional.
00:28:56.866 --> 00:29:04.545
And when COVID hit, there were so many people and companies freaking out like I can't connect with my coworker.
00:29:04.545 --> 00:29:05.886
Yes, you can.
00:29:05.886 --> 00:29:14.071
Yes, you can, because actually we have video now, like I can see you, whereas back in the day I either had to email you or call you.
00:29:14.071 --> 00:29:23.535
And so intentional leadership is not believing and I'm just going to call them excuses like that.
00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:28.288
And this is coming from someone who's an extrovert and I love being around people- Yep, same here.
00:29:28.288 --> 00:29:29.781
So the extroverts?
00:29:29.781 --> 00:29:37.386
I get it, you're like, but I need my people, I understand, and it's an excuse to just well, I have to get on video.
00:29:37.386 --> 00:29:39.539
Oh yeah, you do, it's being intentional.
00:29:40.060 --> 00:29:57.230
So it's doing everything with purpose and um and showing that you care and you're willing to go a little bit above and beyond to make an impact, even if that means I'm going to FaceTime you right now so I can see your face you know it's it's uh this being intentional.
00:29:57.610 --> 00:30:03.744
Yeah, I try all the time to be on camera as much as I can, right, yeah, okay, we've got one more right, see, and I want to.
00:30:03.744 --> 00:30:08.506
I want to come back, once you get through that, to the impacts of COVID for a second.
00:30:08.506 --> 00:30:09.808
But, yeah, keep going.
00:30:10.349 --> 00:30:22.941
Yeah, and then, lastly, the C is courage, and it's doing hard things with grace, like you said, and compassion, and it's role modeling, the way it's creating stability and hope and trust with your team.
00:30:22.941 --> 00:30:35.070
It's being the person others want to follow as being able to have respectful, hard conversations and also be able to motivate people and encourage people along the way.
00:30:35.070 --> 00:30:46.651
Um, courage is is such a valuable character trait for leaders and just being a courageous leader, those are the people that others want to follow.
00:30:46.651 --> 00:30:58.160
So bringing magic to the team as a leader is being mindful of your mindset, driving accountability, being generous with your time and your energy.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:04.730
As long as someone doesn't take advantage of it, you still have to protect your ROE, being intentional and having that courage.
00:31:05.351 --> 00:31:08.867
Yeah, yeah, and this is all worked together so well.
00:31:08.867 --> 00:31:18.951
I mean, I'm just like all these things like cause you could, with the generosity, be taken advantage of, which requires courage to have the tough conversation right.
00:31:18.951 --> 00:31:21.923
That says hey, I think you're taking advantage of me, maybe courage to have the tough conversation right.
00:31:21.923 --> 00:31:25.777
That says, hey, I think you're taking advantage of me, maybe not that explicitly right, but I think that's it's really.
00:31:25.777 --> 00:31:28.288
It's a fascinating sort of way of thinking about it.
00:31:28.288 --> 00:31:29.310
I love how they all play together.
00:31:29.310 --> 00:31:31.906
Okay, so go ahead, go ahead.
00:31:32.307 --> 00:31:33.129
Oh, I was just going to say.
00:31:33.129 --> 00:31:34.826
I know we're talking.
00:31:34.826 --> 00:31:41.924
We've been talking a lot about leadership Like this is also applicable for individuals too, because leadership is simply influence.
00:31:41.924 --> 00:32:04.633
It's not a title on a piece of paper, on a work chart with direct reports, it is simply influence, and so, as long as you're influencing people around you, that is leadership, and so you can bring your own magic to the team using the same framework regardless if you have direct reports or in a leadership role or not.
00:32:04.653 --> 00:32:13.331
No, I point that out, I totally agree with that, and I was going to get to that too, because I know, early in my career I didn't always feel like I was a leader.
00:32:13.331 --> 00:32:17.023
Um, some of that was just confidence and things like that.
00:32:17.023 --> 00:32:27.771
But also, just to think, I happen to work in places that very kind of very hierarchical, um, some more formal and some more informal, but I think it's it's.
00:32:27.771 --> 00:32:37.674
You know, one of the things I've tried to do when I have been in sort of the you know, manager roles is to try to provide an environment where people can be leaders as well, right?
00:32:37.674 --> 00:32:44.072
So, whether that's helping them to learn new skills, putting them in positions to test their courage, right.
00:32:44.072 --> 00:32:51.408
So just tell you things that are hard, that they may not be comfortable doing, but it will be beneficial for them in the long run.
00:32:51.408 --> 00:32:55.249
So I'm totally with you on that.
00:32:55.249 --> 00:33:01.048
So, all of our listeners out there, just make sure that if you're taking notes, take notes whether you're a people leader or not.
00:33:01.048 --> 00:33:05.042
100%, 100% Okay.
00:33:05.064 --> 00:33:14.908
So I'm curious, just yeah, cause he brought up COVID, one of the things that I thought the whole, like all the lockdowns and work remote and all that had.
00:33:14.908 --> 00:33:18.504
Was it really exposed some of that?
00:33:18.504 --> 00:33:40.263
Like, we are all human, human, right, we all have emotions, we all have shit going on behind us, you know, whether we we bring it to work or not, and I think I think that's actually gonna, in the long run, going to be a very good thing, right, because I think then, as a leader, you can, it gives you the I don't think a lot of leaders felt like they could think about that with their team.
00:33:40.263 --> 00:33:57.068
Right, it had to be a business, so there's this box that you could work in, and the same for the people coming to work, right, you know they feel like, oh my my home life stuff, right, is is my kitchen's, not my office yeah, I can't, I can't bring that in, or my kids are, you know, going off the rails or whatever.
00:33:58.070 --> 00:34:10.347
Um, or you get more extreme, like we just had a miscarriage and I don't want to tell anybody about it, like things like that that are like, uh, it feels like some of that got brought out into the open, which I think ultimately could it could be a good thing.
00:34:10.347 --> 00:34:15.248
Um, I do think for a lot of people it was a little harder to make those connections right.
00:34:15.248 --> 00:34:17.300
I, I'm with you, right, I think it's a bit of an excuse.
00:34:17.300 --> 00:34:20.646
I think you know how tools can enable that and you have to put in a little extra effort.
00:34:21.907 --> 00:34:29.318
Yeah, the downside I've seen and I'm continuing to see is like it's really hard for some people to separate, right Cause.
00:34:29.318 --> 00:34:45.475
So, like, yeah, you can see my background, right, I'm in the middle of my house, that's where I have my virtual studio, and it's like you know, if I'm up here I'm working, like I just keep going until I realize, oh, it's dark out and I hear people downstairs make dinner, waiting for dinner.
00:34:45.475 --> 00:34:49.230
So, like, are you seeing some of the same things?
00:34:49.230 --> 00:34:50.586
Are you seeing that with your clients?
00:34:50.586 --> 00:34:56.288
And like, are they dealing with some of this stuff and how is this framework going to help them with that?
00:34:56.981 --> 00:35:07.448
As far as separating, Well separating and I think, as we've talked a little about, yeah, that separation part I think is really tough for some people.
00:35:08.990 --> 00:35:10.213
Yeah, I so.
00:35:10.213 --> 00:35:12.958
I am seeing it get better.
00:35:12.958 --> 00:35:15.923
It's hard to believe it's been five years.
00:35:15.923 --> 00:35:17.007
It's crazy.
00:35:17.007 --> 00:35:22.027
Yeah, don't know where that five years went and I have no concept of time.
00:35:22.027 --> 00:35:25.470
I just is it before COVID or after COVID, bc or AC?
00:35:25.470 --> 00:35:30.769
More people are back in the office.
00:35:30.769 --> 00:35:37.792
That continues to increase company by company.
00:35:37.792 --> 00:35:43.567
It's definitely seen that with my clients as more people are coming back to the office at a minimum, you know, three days a week.
00:35:43.567 --> 00:35:47.554
There's definitely a discipline.
00:35:47.554 --> 00:35:52.739
There's an intentional discipline between separating and turning things off.
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:56.306
You know we are 100% responsible for ourselves.
00:35:56.306 --> 00:36:01.883
We control what we do, what we say, what we think, how we feel.
00:36:01.883 --> 00:36:08.990
This is a hard concept for some people to wrap their brain around, but no one can make you feel any way.
00:36:08.990 --> 00:36:11.620
You choose to feel that way.
00:36:11.620 --> 00:36:19.444
Yeah, if you want more information on how that works, listen to man's search for meaning by victor frankl and you will learn you.
00:36:19.484 --> 00:36:21.827
You know what I'm saying Michael.
00:36:21.848 --> 00:36:33.226
So for anybody who does not know this book, it is maybe this I think I've heard it's like the second most read book in the in the world behind the Bible so unbelievable it is incredible.
00:36:33.226 --> 00:36:35.496
I didn't read it until a few years ago and it blew my mind.
00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:36.882
Yeah, it's, it's.
00:36:36.882 --> 00:36:54.685
It's the most incredible book, incredible story around mindset and how to be in control of how you feel, and I mean it is a perfect example of being a hundred percent responsible for you.
00:36:55.256 --> 00:36:55.496
Yeah.
00:36:55.836 --> 00:36:57.620
And so we all have a choice.
00:36:57.620 --> 00:37:07.466
And so, if, if, if someone's struggling with working at home, be proactive, do something to change the environment at home.
00:37:07.466 --> 00:37:12.966
You know, if you, if the kitchen table is your office, okay, well, is there.
00:37:12.966 --> 00:37:22.426
A same way, you could add a certain move your kitchen table somewhere, put a blind you know one of those little stackable blind things around it to separate it.
00:37:22.426 --> 00:37:23.691
Could you change?
00:37:23.691 --> 00:37:30.932
You know, instead of it being the table, can you move to a different part of the of your apartment, of your house, something like it is?
00:37:30.932 --> 00:37:37.638
There's a discipline and an intention between making sure you have the right environment, because, again back to ROE yeah, are you?
00:37:37.638 --> 00:37:38.602
Is your energy up?
00:37:38.602 --> 00:37:42.753
Are you having a good return on your energy based on the environment you're in?
00:37:42.753 --> 00:37:49.278
Yeah, and at home, you control that environment, usually now, if you have roommates.
00:37:49.298 --> 00:37:50.763
There's a discussion that needs to happen.
00:37:50.763 --> 00:37:54.218
If you're living at home with parents, get, have a conversation.
00:37:54.218 --> 00:38:01.039
But you still are in control of creating that environment for you and so I think that's interesting.
00:38:01.059 --> 00:38:02.361
I I have a.
00:38:02.361 --> 00:38:20.620
I have a relative, brother-in-law who is a longtime police officer and I was talking to him a couple of years ago and I asked him like how do you because I know that it's really hard for police officers going in and out of the stuff that they see every day- oh, I'm sure Like not bring it home.
00:38:20.695 --> 00:38:22.399
And I said, how do you manage that?
00:38:22.399 --> 00:38:50.008
It was really interesting to me that he, he, he said the thing that happens and the rest of the like my wife and the girls know, like when I put on the uniform, right, I'm now in work mode, right, and don't like, yes, I'm just that I'm in, like me, work mode, and then when I come home, first thing I do change clothes and and then sometimes take a few minutes to to sort of to get ready.
00:38:50.476 --> 00:38:53.542
And it's like it was interesting to me because I've always been like.
00:38:53.542 --> 00:39:14.877
I grew up in a time where, you know, suit and tie was the norm, and so for me, even when I started working remotely, or even when places got to be casual or business casual, I still like for me, if I don't get up, take a shower, shave, get dressed like I'm working A routine, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, I think that's so.
00:39:14.877 --> 00:39:16.383
Are those kinds of things helpful, you think?
00:39:16.915 --> 00:39:18.239
They are helpful Absolutely.
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:21.936
I mean, if you're going to be in pajamas, you know.
00:39:21.936 --> 00:39:25.421
And again on camera we see from here up right Pajamas on the bottom and again on camera.
00:39:25.441 --> 00:39:28.104
We see from here up right Pajamas on the bottom but button shirt on the top.
00:39:28.185 --> 00:39:44.177
You know it, there is some psychological thing that makes an impact, um, you know, my husband and I, whenever he works from home too, so whenever we have a good presentation, we stand like I'm standing right now, um, because you just it's, it's physical, it's a powerful position to be in.
00:39:44.177 --> 00:39:53.343
So it's changing that physiology, changing what you're focused on, change your language, it's changing the state that you're in, and clothes is part of it.
00:39:53.343 --> 00:40:12.464
So I'm so glad you said that, because I was going to give a similar example of when you know if you're with someone or you're just like, and it doesn't feel good when you leave that person, change clothes, do something to almost like shed off what you had in that situation, take a shower, rinse all that stuff off, like.
00:40:12.464 --> 00:40:14.269
Those things matter.
00:40:14.269 --> 00:40:26.267
And it's also sometimes good to um, every morning I'll just write in a journal and it is stream of consciousness and I don't reread it because it probably would not make a lot of sense, and it is just clearing my head.
00:40:26.795 --> 00:40:28.540
I've tried multiple times to do a journal.
00:40:28.540 --> 00:40:30.786
It is not for me and so like, but yeah.
00:40:32.662 --> 00:40:36.477
I was just recently given and some of your listeners probably have this book If they're creatives.
00:40:36.477 --> 00:40:39.230
It's called the artist's way, and she talks about writing.
00:40:39.692 --> 00:40:44.964
We talked about running morning pages and someone just gave me this book recently and I took it as okay.
00:40:44.964 --> 00:40:45.666
There's some reason.
00:40:45.666 --> 00:41:04.765
This book was put into my hands and so that's what I started doing, which is the morning pages of just writing through the consciousness and I don't know what it means and what it says and don't read it again, and so there are just ways to get us mentally in a better place, but it definitely takes discipline, some structure, routine, and even if you're someone you're like Carrie, I don't like structure.
00:41:21.517 --> 00:41:22.899
I, and even if you're someone, you're like Carrie.
00:41:22.899 --> 00:41:27.107
I don't like structure, I like to be spontaneous, fly by the spontaneous.
00:41:27.107 --> 00:41:28.910
So I think about and I don't know if this is true.
00:41:28.910 --> 00:41:35.383
I think it's a Steve Jobs story, right, where Steve Jobs basically wore the same thing every day yes, black turtleneck.
00:41:35.383 --> 00:41:42.716
And I've heard of others too, where it's like part of why they do that is that they're not using energy to think about what am I going to wear today.
00:41:42.716 --> 00:41:45.320
Right, so they're using that energy towards other stuff.
00:41:45.481 --> 00:41:51.990
And I think, yes, so it eliminates he had only so much cognitive space and he didn't want it.
00:41:51.990 --> 00:41:52.792
That's exactly right.
00:41:52.792 --> 00:41:53.473
Yeah, I love that story.
00:41:53.473 --> 00:41:57.596
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so channeling my Steve jobs today with my black tops.
00:41:57.897 --> 00:42:00.918
Oh well, I can't I did put some energy.
00:42:00.918 --> 00:42:03.699
Well, good, I'm glad we appreciate that.
00:42:03.699 --> 00:42:17.026
So one of the things that I think some of our listeners will go to will maybe be thinking in the back of their minds is okay, this is all really interesting and great, but those are like soft skills, right?
00:42:17.026 --> 00:42:28.692
Yes, term is just in general, like I think it undermines it, but, um, cause, I think a lot of skills can be, can be learned, even if they're not.
00:42:28.692 --> 00:42:31.013
Quote hard skills, right.
00:42:31.013 --> 00:42:32.094
What, what, what do you?
00:42:38.095 --> 00:42:38.817
what's your take on all that?
00:42:38.817 --> 00:42:46.543
Yeah, I I definitely think that referring to the stuff I'm talking to as soft skills can diminish the importance and the impact in professional and personal success.
00:42:46.543 --> 00:42:52.336
And really, in reality, these skills are like communication, emotional intelligence, adaptability, leadership, et cetera.
00:42:52.336 --> 00:42:54.180
They're really anything but soft.
00:42:54.180 --> 00:43:09.303
They are essential and they are learnable and they're measurable competencies that are going to help us with collaboration and decision making, et cetera, and the idea that these skills are like purely innate is kind of a common misconception, I think.
00:43:09.303 --> 00:43:37.026
So some individuals may have a natural inclination towards certain interpersonal abilities right, and research has shown that with intentional practice, coaching, feedback, we can all significantly improve in these areas of, again, communication, active listening, conflict resolution I like to talk about having constructive conflict and people are like wait what Well, I'm a big fan of maybe you've heard of it crucial confrontations.
00:43:37.155 --> 00:43:37.901
Crucial confrontations.
00:43:37.901 --> 00:43:39.435
I think we talked about that the first time we spoke.
00:43:41.158 --> 00:43:51.500
Yeah, I tell people all the time, one of the reasons I love it I've even recommended it to my kids because I think it's a life, it's a, it's a tool, it's a framework that can help you in business and in personal life, and all over.
00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:51.740
Yes.
00:43:52.543 --> 00:43:53.646
Yes, so, yeah.
00:43:53.646 --> 00:44:07.942
So, just as we invest time in developing technical skills okay With taking a class to get better on coding or, you know, technology, innovation, whatever we can develop these soft skills, or let's just call them human skills.
00:44:07.942 --> 00:44:08.285
Okay.
00:44:08.285 --> 00:44:10.519
So I think human skills might sound- how about just call them skills?
00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:21.364
They're just skills, necessary skills, and we can do that, again, through intention and training and coaching and just real world application and awareness and practice.
00:44:21.364 --> 00:44:33.961
And I think the more you know, more we do that, the better, because more research is coming out that EQ is a higher indication of success at work than IQ, and you know it's, it's.
00:44:33.961 --> 00:45:04.489
It's important and again, especially as the workforce gets younger, the younger folks I don't want to call them kids, but younger, younger people are caring about human skills more than the Gen Xers, the Boomers, those generations, the Millennials, the Gen Zs, the Gen Y, I don't even know what generation we're on now, but those generations are bringing this amazing, refreshing look on human skills.
00:45:04.489 --> 00:45:06.860
And that's also why there was the mass exodus during COVID.
00:45:06.860 --> 00:45:13.754
The whole people leaving it was because the world is coming to an end.
00:45:13.754 --> 00:45:19.048
Why am I giving all my energy to a company that doesn't see me, hear me, appreciate me?
00:45:19.048 --> 00:45:22.063
And that's where a lot of people left their jobs.
00:45:22.747 --> 00:45:27.619
That's interesting, yeah, so the human skills are crucial to success and organizational health.
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:32.639
Yeah Well, and I think I like I will just reiterate I believe, I truly believe that those skills can be learned.
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:33.541
You can get better at you.
00:45:33.541 --> 00:45:41.960
May not be 100%, you may not be the most eloquent gifted public speaker, but you can get better at it, right.
00:45:41.980 --> 00:45:47.265
Well, and again, sorry to like if it sounds harsh I'm I'm a little bit of a tough love coach.
00:45:47.265 --> 00:45:55.152
It's an excuse, yeah, it's an excuse, and it is also tied to our energy.
00:45:55.152 --> 00:45:57.863
Okay, so it's all connected.
00:45:57.863 --> 00:46:00.501
It is an excuse to not.
00:46:00.501 --> 00:46:01.946
I can't do that.
00:46:01.946 --> 00:46:04.061
Well, I can't, or you won't.
00:46:04.061 --> 00:46:06.287
Very different you can try.
00:46:09.295 --> 00:46:14.205
Yeah, If you won't do something and it makes me uncomfortable, it's a drain again, not a good ROE.
00:46:14.205 --> 00:46:15.488
They don't do it.
00:46:15.488 --> 00:46:19.182
At least explore that whole thing versus just going.
00:46:19.182 --> 00:46:19.884
Oh, that's not me.
00:46:19.884 --> 00:46:26.262
I could never learn that you can, you won't because it is a low ROE and that's okay.
00:46:26.262 --> 00:46:27.483
But let's just call it what it is.
00:46:27.984 --> 00:46:35.557
Yeah, it reminds me of one of my all-time favorite quotes, which I do not have memorized, but it's the you can look it up.
00:46:35.557 --> 00:46:38.264
The Theodore Roosevelt man in the arena quote.
00:46:38.264 --> 00:46:39.387
Are you familiar with that?
00:46:39.387 --> 00:46:49.169
Essentially, it's like at the end, it's like if you don't try, you won't win or lose.
00:46:49.169 --> 00:46:53.236
Right, if you try you may lose, but at least you'll have tried and you can.
00:46:53.236 --> 00:46:54.158
You know it's like.
00:46:54.158 --> 00:46:58.405
So I don't want to get to the end of, you know, my life and go.
00:46:58.405 --> 00:47:00.408
I wish I had done Totally.
00:47:00.428 --> 00:47:00.649
I wish.
00:47:00.729 --> 00:47:06.622
I had not, and so, like I think there's something to be said for like, look, it's a hard thing to do, Do the hard thing.
00:47:07.403 --> 00:47:08.384
Well, and here's the thing.
00:47:08.384 --> 00:47:12.229
So can I touch on failure for a second Speaking?
00:47:12.269 --> 00:47:12.950
of doing hard things.
00:47:12.950 --> 00:47:13.511
Let's do that.
00:47:13.511 --> 00:47:13.891
Yeah.
00:47:13.891 --> 00:47:16.237
Well, I think it'll be good because I think this is a.
00:47:16.237 --> 00:47:24.705
It's been a tough couple of years for people in this space right, with lots of layoffs and people on job loss and try to figure out what to do.
00:47:24.705 --> 00:47:26.187
So, yes, absolutely.
00:47:26.187 --> 00:47:30.431
I wouldn't even call that failure, but just the difficult situation, right.
00:47:30.431 --> 00:47:39.706
Yeah, so, so so many people say they have a fear of failure.
00:47:39.726 --> 00:47:47.428
In my experience personally and as a coach for for the last decade, it's not that, it's something deeper.
00:47:47.428 --> 00:47:53.686
When we immediately go to, oh, I have a fear of X, that's going to be surface level.
00:47:53.686 --> 00:47:57.781
There is some other root cause that's a little deeper than that.
00:47:57.781 --> 00:48:01.689
But with failure we have to fail.
00:48:01.689 --> 00:48:03.620
Failure is simply learning.
00:48:03.620 --> 00:48:06.389
It is simply learning.
00:48:06.389 --> 00:48:12.403
It is here to teach us an incredible lesson that we're supposed to get from that failure.
00:48:13.365 --> 00:48:22.457
And if we have a fear of failure and we just hang our hat on that, we're essentially saying we're afraid to grow, we're afraid to grow, we're afraid to learn.
00:48:22.457 --> 00:48:32.143
And again, don't mean not to sound harsh, it's just that that's just how that lands and this is where the magic happens.
00:48:32.143 --> 00:48:34.957
Speaking of magic, the magic happens outside of our comfort zone.
00:48:34.957 --> 00:48:42.476
We've probably all seen that visual right, like here's a little circle, the arrow points over here and like this is where all the magic happens and it's out of our comfort zone.
00:48:42.476 --> 00:48:49.769
And so when we fail, if we look at failure as a teacher, we look at fear as a teacher as well.
00:48:49.769 --> 00:48:55.487
Fear gets louder the longer we avoid doing something.
00:48:55.788 --> 00:48:55.988
Yes.
00:48:56.095 --> 00:48:59.225
And it gets louder because it's trying to get our attention.
00:48:59.225 --> 00:49:01.002
It's like I'm actually not going to go away.
00:49:01.002 --> 00:49:04.265
I'm going to get more annoying until you do this thing.
00:49:04.265 --> 00:49:07.144
And the minute you do that thing, fear goes away.
00:49:08.316 --> 00:49:18.516
Well, I think we often tell ourselves a story about how awful that is going to be, totally Sometimes it is but in most cases in my experience, it's never near as bad as you think it's going to be.
00:49:18.537 --> 00:49:25.542
A lot of times, most times when you leap, the net will appear Some net, whatever the net is meant to be for you.
00:49:25.542 --> 00:49:30.240
But a net is going to appear and this is where resilience is really important.
00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:36.623
I'm just helping us pick ourselves back up trust that we're exactly where we're supposed to be.
00:49:36.623 --> 00:49:38.230
We're going to be okay.
00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:40.778
Sometimes we're going to be freaking awesome.
00:49:40.778 --> 00:49:44.816
Sometimes we're going to be we're just going to have to sit in the suck for a minute.
00:49:44.816 --> 00:49:51.777
But there is a lesson that all of us can learn in all of those facets of life, and so fear of failure.
00:49:51.777 --> 00:50:06.824
I have fun with people who tell me that I'm like okay, I come here, let me, let me help you, let me help you understand that failure is is actually doing something for you, not against you.
00:50:06.824 --> 00:50:08.922
So I just wanted to share that, yeah.
00:50:09.857 --> 00:50:10.661
No, I think it's good.
00:50:10.661 --> 00:50:28.136
I mean, I think, whether it's Man's Search for Meaning or A Brave New World, right, this idea they've kind of diametrically opposed, actually, I guess and like, but the idea like, oh, we would all be happier if we didn't have challenges or failures in our lives is really false.
00:50:28.136 --> 00:50:29.139
Like we just it would.
00:50:29.139 --> 00:50:30.442
It's not human nature.
00:50:30.482 --> 00:50:31.685
It'd be bored out of mind.
00:50:31.685 --> 00:50:34.341
It'd be bored, and boredom is worse than failure?
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:51.028
Yeah, I mean, I think it would be, and so I think, um, there's like a lesson learned from this is just like, yeah, that resilience, uh, realizing that whatever your stuff you're dealing with, you can overcome, it is something that's a good lesson to learn.
00:50:51.069 --> 00:50:51.972
It doesn't mean it's going to be easy.
00:50:52.374 --> 00:50:54.801
It doesn't mean it's not going to come with more punches to the face.
00:50:54.821 --> 00:51:01.626
Again, pain is the path to joy with almost everything, and so it's the courage to go through the pain.
00:51:01.626 --> 00:51:04.359
Don't push it off, because it's just going to get louder Again.
00:51:04.359 --> 00:51:06.545
We push off stuff that comes in across our path.
00:51:06.545 --> 00:51:08.695
It gets louder and heavier, yeah.
00:51:08.775 --> 00:51:11.621
If we find the courage, find the support system.
00:51:11.621 --> 00:51:15.289
Not coping right, that's different.
00:51:15.289 --> 00:51:27.502
Finding support system to go through whatever that pain is, you will get, all of us will get to the other side and get to the joy, and then we'll look back at all the things we learned along the way.
00:51:27.723 --> 00:51:28.506
Yes, yes.
00:51:28.506 --> 00:51:30.285
Well, you can't have one without the other.
00:51:30.285 --> 00:51:31.151
So that's right.
00:51:31.151 --> 00:51:31.735
That's right.
00:51:31.735 --> 00:51:34.184
It feels like it's a great place to stop Carrie.
00:51:34.184 --> 00:51:35.800
So much fun talking about this.
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:42.496
I love this stuff and I think this is a great will be really helpful for everybody who's listening and watching this.
00:51:42.496 --> 00:51:49.985
So if folks want to learn more about you or what you're talking about and that kind of stuff, what's the best way for them to do that?
00:51:50.795 --> 00:51:53.742
Yeah, so they can go to my website, kerryfabricecom.
00:51:53.742 --> 00:51:57.139
I've got everything on there that I do.
00:51:57.139 --> 00:52:03.658
I am in the process of starting to record a bunch of little video snippets, a video series that I'm going to post on LinkedIn.
00:52:03.658 --> 00:52:10.582
It's all around ROE and setting it up with how do you find your ROE with insert topic.
00:52:10.582 --> 00:52:14.599
So I'm going to just start doing this and having fun so you can connect with me on LinkedIn.
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:17.917
If you connect with me on LinkedIn, please tell me that you heard me here.
00:52:17.917 --> 00:52:19.220
So I'm like who is this person?
00:52:19.220 --> 00:52:31.598
Cause I don't accept all um, all invitations, cause I'm like I don't know who this person is.
00:52:31.598 --> 00:52:35.371
But if you tell me you know you heard me on the podcast, then I certainly will want to invite you into my community and let you look around on my little videos.
00:52:35.371 --> 00:52:35.993
But thank you for having me.
00:52:35.993 --> 00:52:37.858
I definitely had an amazing ROE personally.
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:39.864
Oh good, so did I, so did I.
00:52:39.864 --> 00:52:45.218
So it was really fun Even on this cloudy gray day, here in Dallas Exactly.
00:52:45.398 --> 00:52:50.468
It's where, just to bring everything up, despite the clouds and the 26 degree weather that's on its way here again.
00:52:50.508 --> 00:52:54.262
Yes, I'm looking forward to covering plants here in a few hours.
00:52:55.625 --> 00:52:56.066
I gave up.
00:52:56.166 --> 00:52:56.627
I just gave up.
00:52:56.627 --> 00:52:58.197
Yeah Well, carrie.
00:52:58.197 --> 00:52:59.221
Again, thank you so much.
00:52:59.221 --> 00:53:03.000
Thank you Thanks to all of our listeners out there for continuing to support us, as always.
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:09.358
If you have ideas for guests or topics or want to be a guest, reach out to Naomi, mike or me and we'll be happy to talk to you about it.
00:53:09.358 --> 00:53:10.781
Till next time, bye, everybody.