spk_0: 0:01
I am Dr Tabatha, the functional gynecologist. I'm a board certified OBY, giant and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey. And I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. So if you're struggling, hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety and son, you name it, then you come to the right place. I want to be your functional gynecologist. So welcome. I'm really honored to have my guest on today. Her name is Cynthia Thurlow. She is a sought after successful entrepreneur, nurse practitioner, intermittent fasting and nutrition expert. Founder of Cynthia Thurlow LLC, co author of Primal Eating and co host of a podcast called Everyday Wellness. I first found Cynthia through her Ted X talk on YouTube, and I was blown away by how graceful and honest and wise this woman Waas, you're gonna love listening to her today, her bio reads. As an advocate for living a fulfilled, healthy and well balanced lifestyle, Cynthia has committed her career to serving women coming of age. She's disrupting the notion that this is just how it is and now settle and accept it. She's leading the way for change. As part of that endeavor, Cynthia brings over 20 years of medical experience, combined with current and progressive nutritional perspectives and approaches to truly serve those in need. She provides hope and customized programs that work. So I want you to go on her website, Cynthia Thurlow dot com, and check that out. Like I said, she has been a headache speaker twice. Her second talk reached 5.3 million views, and it was on intermittent fasting. She's been a guest on numerous podcasts, including the JJ Virgin Reignite Wellness Show, Natalie Jill's Leveling Up 365 driven with Tony Watley, Low Carbon de Podcast with doctors Trow and Less Kiss in the University of Adversity, to name a few. She's been featured on ABC Fox five KT. L. A Pix 11 medium and Entrepreneur magazine and speaks on intermittent fasting, hormonal health, fat loss, self care in the power of whole food, nutrition, carb, cycling, adapted genic herbs, they just of health and more. She's worked with thousands of individuals with commitment toe, live their lives not just holistically but holy, balanced and genuinely fulfilled. So I am super humbled in honored Teoh interview Cynthia today. So I know that you'll enjoy this and you'll get a ton of useful information out of our conversation. So here we go. Well, welcome, Cynthia. Thanks for being on the functional gynecologist. Podcast.
spk_1: 3:26
Thanks so much for having me. It's really my pleasure.
spk_0: 3:28
Yeah, you are just a wealth of knowledge. And the first time I saw you, I had mentioned an intro was on your Ted X talk. It was super impressed just how grounded you were and how sure you were of yourself and that you weren't afraid, Toe. Just get out there and help other women. I just that, you know, rings true to me. So how long have you been in the wellness space? Yeah,
spk_1: 3:56
so I'm traditionally trained in Western medicine. So I did 16 years as an MP in cardiology, and I think it was really when I had Children that it kind of shifted my focus a bit. I mean, I there's obviously a need for Western medicine. I'm not being critical of it, but there's not a lot of emphasis on food and nutrition and wellness. It's, you know, I was trained in preventive medicine. But that's not a lot of what you do in cardiology. It's more reflexive. It's after the fact. And so I think when my oldest developed really significant life threatening food allergies, that it caused me to take a little bit of a closer look. A how we're living our life style, which was always healthy by normal standards but really looking and taking a deeper dive, Looking at the influence of nutrition, of on health and wellness and recognizing that, you know, the processed food industry is not doing us any benefits. Ah, and it's largely leaving us a sick, obese and disease society. So I think that's really where it stem from. And then the longer I was practicing, I was more more frustrated that I was not able to influence patients. And the way that I wanted to, you know, I was prescribing the medications and setting them up for tests and doing all the research based modalities that were expected of me for my heart. You know, the longer I was doing, it just wasn't in it. And so I did pivoted about four years ago and left clinical medicine to start a you know, an entrepreneurial journey and what makes me laugh. But I don't I really think I knew what that looked like when I started, and so I kind of fell into, uh, female hormone a health because I was like many people in their forties and peri menopause and felt like I got stuck. It wasn't getting the answers that I desperately needed and wanted. And so I started creating programs and all of the women that were coming to me were coming to me with the same questions, concerns and issues. And so from there, uh, you know, just continue to, you know, find opportunities to be able to serve women in a greater, uh, capacity. And so that's how I stumbled into doing two Ted talks, one of the ones that you mentioned, and so that's really been exciting. To feel like the work I'm doing now is perhaps more impactful than what I was ever doing before, and then having an opportunity to meet so many people from all over the United States and elsewhere that are, you know, in the same mindset. I don't feel like I'm a duck out of water anymore. I think for a few years I did. And you know, a lot of my nurse practitioner in position colleagues would kind of scratch their heads and like Okay, well, she's kind of getting this out of her system, and eventually it'll go away. But it really hasn't. It's become were truly in a life of its own. And so I'm very, very grateful that I took that leap of faith. But that's a bit on how I came. Teoh This kind of circuitous journey to where I am now.
spk_0: 6:41
Yeah, I love that. Oh, my gosh. I totally felt out of place and alone in the conventional medical world. Once I started focusing on my diet in my lifestyle and, you know, practicing prevention and wellness. And they looked at me like I was crazy. So and it does feel so good to finally find other people like you who are doing it and you're rocking it like you arts helping so many women. It's amazing my listeners will you explain the difference between a nutritionist or dietitian and a functional nutritionist? Because I when I first started on this journey, the first thing I did was clean up my diet. I got rid of that standard American diet, and it made such a huge impact on how I felt overall and getting my auto immune disease under control. I just I want people to understand that it's not like your typical government food pyramid and following the 80 recommendations like Tell me the difference.
spk_1: 7:51
Yeah, it's a great question. So traditionally changed, registered dietitians, RDS or nutritionists work off of the Food Guide pyramid. They work off of USDA recommendations there, more traditionally trained in a very grain and gluten free heavy diet. They're not focused on in, and I'm not being critical. I want to be really clear about that, much like what traditional Western medicine trained providers air not really taught much in terms of nutrition. They're looking at things through a very narrow lens. And so when I look at functional training, we're looking at root cause we're looking a bit deeper. We're looking at quality of food. We're looking others. Ah, great book called pot injures cats, talking about the evolution of the quality of the cat's diet and and the diseases that came from that diet or not. And so you know, from a functional perspective. We're looking about deeper. We're not just dealing with symptoms were looking at root causes. And, for example, if someone came to me as a when I was functioning in my traditional role with sleep issues, I would just prescribe something to make. I'm sleep I wouldn't be looking to see. Is that a blood sugar issue? Is there too much stress in their personal lives? Are the eating the wrong combinations of macron's like perching fat carbohydrates? So I always say that someone who has functionally trained, whether it's, ah, nurse, physician registered dietitian, etcetera, they're going to look at things through a different lens. They're going to be looking at bio individuality, which means they're going to be looking at you as an individual, not just as every woman over the age of X gets these things. Every man over the age of X gets these things, and that's really how we were trained. I was explaining to someone the other day that in cardiology I prescribed anti hypertensive all the time, So blood pressure lowering medication and I used to tell people that I started to recognize that you could have 10 people with a diagnosis of high blood pressure and you had to treat Each time you eat, each person has their own individual. And so that was so out of context. From the way that I was trained, it was like, this is the front line drug to use. And then if that doesn't work, you have this drug and right, that doesn't work. You add this drug and I came to understand that a lot of medicine is like cooking, meaning, you know, sometimes you have to add a little bit more of this spice and a little less of this to make things work. But recognizing that we're all bio individuals. And so you know, from a broad stroke perspective, when I think about functionally trained providers versus traditionally Western medicine trained providers is separate markets root cause versus symptom management. That's the easiest way to differentiate them. And I think we really do a patient a huge disservice if we aren't looking at them as individuals, different genetics, different stress management styles, different level of physical activity, sleep quality, etcetera and and the the food pieces absolutely instrumental. You know, you had mentioned that you had an autoimmune disorder that was, um, improved by changing your diet and for me, I love telling people this story. 20 years ago, I was diagnosed with Lyme and I was treated appropriately. Thank God what I developed six months after having a round of antibiotics with psoriasis, and I had that for years and it would flare when I got stressed and I was taking topical steroids, and I just thought it was something I had to live with and on my own. I decided to go gluten free, and all of a sudden, when I went gluten free, my psoriasis went away and my dermatologist was stunned. Like she loves telling people, You know, I have a patient who got off of all their steroids because they went gluten free. And I said, If we then understands what happens when we take antibiotics that we developed this hyper permeability of the small intestine, which makes us more susceptible to developing autoimmune disorders, you know, why wouldn't we want to be looking at things differently? Like, I don't want to be on medication chronically unless I absolutely have to be. And I think that, you know, we really owe it to our patients to look at things through a different lens. I mean, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to end. I think it's really critical that we evolved, shift and change as providers and humans like. We can't remain rigid in our dogma. That is one of the things that I I've been most, um, my dogs. That is one of the things that I've had to really struggle with is that some people are so rigid in their dogma, and it could be about anything that they aren't willing to think outside the box. Like I regularly get into spirited conversations on Twitter, for example, because there's some people who are so rigid about their nutritional dog hman calories in calories, out and breakfast being the most important meal of the day. And I just remind them like part of being a clinician is being open minded, like we're ultimately trained to be scientists or at least be curious about. You know, it might be an end of one or an end of two, but we still want to be looking and trying new things and being open minded and receptive, and we wanna have a curious mind. I tell my Children all the time that you want to be a lifelong learner. It's really important to be open minded about alternative perspectives and ideologies.
spk_0: 12:53
Yeah, definitely. I think that's where ah lot of clinicians go wrong is they get their training, they go out into practice and then they practiced the same way for 20 or 30 years. And you know what I learned in medical school was already outdated when they taught it to me. So if I miss sitting here practicing that 15 years later how dated am I? We need toe follow the research. We need to change and be open like you're saying Teoh What We don't know Because I think we know about 1%. Really? You know so much that we don't know it's ever evolving. And we need Teoh put the egos aside and say, Hey, you know what? I don't know everything, and it's okay, but I'm going to keep learning, and I'm gonna keep bringing you the latest information, and we're gonna try to get you better, you know? Yeah. So I think
spk_1: 13:48
that humility is really critical that we have to it and it's okay. Like I even tell some of my patients now Sometimes I don't know, but I'm gonna find out the answer. And, you know, being a life long learner is part of acknowledging there's no way we could know everything about everything. Like just absolutely. No way.
spk_0: 14:07
Exactly. So if your doctor is saying that this is the way and they know best, then you probably want toe find somebody else, right? Yes. Okay. On your website, you work with women, and you coach them, You say, by individuality is key. Tell me about your coaching program.
spk_1: 14:27
Yeah. So I've started to scale back on my one on ones. I do still work with a very small group of women, probably less than 15 that I meet with. Usually, you know, I work from every 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes longer. Sometimes we're in a maintenance program. But I have a couple of group programs that I designed in response to needs. Ah, once fault, holistic blueprint, which is what I believe to be foundational to women's health and a women north of 35 beyond. Kind of walking them through critical areas that they need to focus on things. This simple is sleeping, hydration and a lot of us. We never talk to our patients about that, ever, but really starting at foundational Lee and then each week kind of building on that. I've got an intermittent fasting program that's all done online. I also have a program which were in the midst of renaming called Find Your Inner Goddess. But it's essentially, you know, kicking sugar to the code There are, and I'm sure there are a lot of women that are listening. This is probably completely understand that, you know, sugar addiction Israel, and it's not something to be taken lightly that, you know, Sugar infiltrates so much of our lives that it's really a huge issue and hugely inflammatory. So those were the typical kind of broad programs that I'm doing. Um, that I do throughout the year just depends, and I think it's interesting we're in the midst of a big launch for holistic blueprint. When Kobe, it started to kind of pick up steam. And so everyone that registered for the program we kept saying, you know, we're not going anywhere. We just want to kind of get through, you know, the next six weeks or so reevaluate things were hoping toe open registration again in day. And then you start the program, Probably May or June, but, uh, yeah, run those programs throughout the year, which is a lot of fun. I do everything online. So people conjoined from anywhere in United States, and we've even got a few that during Europe, which is really fun.
spk_0: 16:20
Oh, that's awesome. So women are seeking you out for nutritional guidance, help with their sugar addictions. You know, I see a lot of women, my office who insist of it, They can't get off the sugar, you know, like, don't even bother trying to change my diet because it has a hold on me. And what would you say to that? That woman who, you know, feels like she can't even stop eating that stuff.
spk_1: 16:47
Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of it's baby steps, and some people are ready to pay you money, but aren't ready to do the work. Meaning they acknowledge they have a problem. They know they have a problem. They know they need support and they're not ready to do the work. So when someone started using those limiting beliefs of you know it's got too strong a hold on me. I can't do this. And I just What would your life be like differently, you know? Wouldn't it be nice toe have consistent energy throughout the day? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sleep? Wouldn't it be nice to not feel like you are? You have a monkey on your back that you're not driven by cravings, and you're driven by a strong desire to fuel your Broady appropriately. And so we really start from there. And I always remind people that small changes have a big impact. I find that for a lot of women, they need to do testing to really, uh, you know, provide some conceptual basis, like food sensitivity testing. And you know, the G I map, which is a powerful stool task you can look for. You know, it's common to see just by assists or underlying can data. If someone's got a really, really strong sugar addiction that there are gut microbiome imbalances or even the Dutch, which I'm sure you're familiar with looking at, you know, sex hormones and melatonin and cortisol on and things like that that can influence all of that. But I remind people, you know, what are their desires? What are they hoping to achieve? I tried to redirect their focus and just reminding them a part of our work together, whether perverts and group or one on one is really helping them write their own. I write their own kind of prescription, if you will, for what health and wellness is. You know, some people don't do well with elimination diets because they're just not ready to do the work. Other people, once they pull those inflammatory foods out, all of a sudden I feel so much better that it just reinforces continued good habits. And so I I like to remind people, you know, what ultimately do you want? I have a lot of women that will say, You know, I never had a weight problem till I hit perimenopause and then all of a sudden, it's like they've got insulin resistance. Their sleep is terrible, their stress levels are out the, you know, out the door and they over exercise. And so, trying to find, you know, some common ground about how we can start changing some of these things. And it could be a simple is getting someone to sleep 78 hours a night with high quality sleep, like again going back to foundational principles that are really, really critical for, um, you know, health a promise. And it could be something as simple. So I would say, Let's start small, small, small steps have can ultimately add up to big gains. But let's start small and achievable. Let's master that. And then we add something else.
spk_0: 19:22
Yeah, I I can attest to the sleep situation. As an obstetrician, you know, I didn't sleep for a couple decades and when I'm sure he did a priority, you know that along with changing my diet, I was actually able to get control of how I felt, you know, And that was really empowering. So I want women out there to know that you do have a choice and how you feel and your habits condemn. Definitely change that. Once I got some sleep and I started eating the right foods and healing my gut. Like you said, I wasn't a slave to the sugar, wasn't talking to me all day long anymore. And I love that you use what you're eating, but also when you're eating as an important part of managing symptoms. So let's talk about intermittent fasting a little bit. When did you start getting into that?
spk_1: 20:19
No, it was almost five years ago. It was funny. I had a week where in the In the midst of conversations of three women in my life, the topic cut coming up and so, being the typical person I am like, I need to do my research. I bought a book. I bought Jason phones book, read that and then started doing it. And I felt like it gave me my life back. In many ways, I have never been I would never die. I would never say that I was ever obese. But with peri menopause, I'd put on £10 which, when you're five foot three, makes a big difference in how you feel. And so my sleep was terrible. I was over exercising my job, and cardiology was super stressful. My husband traveled, and so the only thing that I could really control at that point as a starter was okay, I'm not gonna eat breakfast. And so I stopped eating breakfast and then all of a sudden you know, it went to two meals a day, and then I sleep got better. And I was, you know, feeling so much better. And I did, you know, exact an elimination diet. And so for me, it really gave me more energy, More mental clarity. Um, I definitely helped helped lose some weight, which I always jokingly say everyone comes to him and fasting for weight loss, but they stay for all the other benefits, and then we just started to do my end of one became a topic that I started discussing with my patients. And, um, you know, people really influenced by what I was saying on social media as well as, you know, with my own patient population, my family, a lot of people were influenced to try it. And people were like, I should go great. Like, I feel like I, um I feel like I probably felt when I was 25 except now I know so much more. And so, you know, although my chronological ages in my forties, I like to think that I probably feel is good as I did in my late twenties, early thirties, and so I just think that it's It's an incredible strategy, and it's free and flexible. And that's really K. There's so much of what goes on in our daily lives cost money, or it's a powder or ocean or a gimmick. And so this is something that not only can clinicians learn about two uses a strategy with their patients, but it's something that they themselves can do. And so I think when you start looking at the research on intermittent fasting, it really is. I call it the proverbial fountain of youth, but it has the benefits of being able to really harness, um, some powerful opportunities to support our bodies, much more so than, you know, spiking insulin throughout the day because we're eating three or 46 meals a day, which I mean, it makes my head spin when I think about how much of a sugar burner I waas because I would go to the gym and drink a shake. And then when I left the gym, I drink a shake, and then when I got to work, I did a small meal, and then in between seeing patients, I need something, and then I'd eat lunch and that I have a snack in the afternoon and then dinner. And I was like, Gosh, I was stoking this insulin release all day long, and maybe that was okay in my twenties and thirties, but not in my forties, man. I got to change the game and I'm like, I'm going down fighting. I'm not gonna accept that. I have to feel fat and frumpy, which was not, which is exactly how I felt because I hadn't ever so without before. I just want really inflamed and couldn't sleep and didn't feel great. So that's how it started. But obviously it's evolved into a lot form.
spk_0: 23:31
Yeah, and I tried to tell Tell my patients you're not gonna lose weight as long as you keep giving your body fuel in the form of food and sugar there. That is what they're going to burn. They're never gonna tap into your fat stores. And I find that some women have a harder time transitioning into getting back into being a fat burner. You know, it's how we were created to be that our ancestors lived. So it's possible is just that we have retrained or body in bad way to utilize this constant food that we have available. So what would you say is like the beginning steps? You know, I like how you say baby steps to get onto this. I usually tell my patients, Let's push breakfast back an hour or two and then get to the point where we skip it. Is that usually what? You're starting with your clients?
spk_1: 24:26
Yeah. So I typically say, you know, if you eat dinner at six o'clock at night and you have breakfast at eight, you've already fast in 14 hours. So I think people are reassured because in their minds, I think they're going to die. I'm gonna die if I don't eat breakfast. And so I just say, OK, if you're already doing this for 14 hours, let's try 14.5 hours. And so baby steps forward, always trying to aim for 16 hours. That's kind of the starting point. I encourage people to try to get there. Some people, they are like a duck to water. They go from 12 13 14 hours to 16 very easily others it may take them to refer weeks to become fat adapted, and so again it goes back to bio individually checking in with yourself. You know, when you're fasted, you should have your stomach. Maybe growling. But that's okay. Um, you know, you should have more mental clarity. You should have more energy if you don't. If you were consistently dragging, it might not be the right strategy at that point in time. And I think it's also really critical to mention people baby steps with regard to fasting and feeding windows, but making sure that you're starting to make small, subtle shifts about how your fueling your body really focusing on protein first. That is the most important macronutrients in my humble opinion and so also really important and critical when people are getting older. Uh, you know, Star Kapini A, which is this muscle wasting that occurs really starts to escalate after age 40. So protein and some healthy fats and then earn your carbohydrates like it should not be that we sit down and we have this massive plate of pasta or a massive place of plate of rights because, you know, it's not that first, all we technically don't need carbohydrates. And that's not a opinion that is that people like to hear. We need protein and healthy fats, so carbs should be earned. Carbs should be. Quantity should not be exorbitant. And by that you know it means 1/3 of a cup, 1/2 a cup of sweet potato or rice or keen walk. And if you tolerate grains, I'm a huge fan of getting more vegetable based. Root vegetable squash Sweet potato potatoes are more of where I kind of gravitate towards, Really, you know, looking at how your body responds to carbohydrates, how it feels. There's a really great book called Wire T by Robert Wolf. I strongly encourage people if they're interested in learning more about the car tolerance to really look at that book because it can be highly helpful. You know, I find like I have to Well, one's 12 once. 14. But my boys are. Their metabolisms are like hummingbirds, so obviously they can eat a whole lot more carbohydrates than I can. But even for themselves, you know they're not competitive swimmers right now. They're out of the pool. They're not doing cross for the not playing football. They are active, but not as much as they were. And so we're educating them about their bodies. Okay, let's focus on the protein first, that let's make sure you gotta print you know you got a healthy fat and then add in the carbohydrate. And so I think that's a reasonable, um, a reasonable discussion to have. And it stops that. Maybe that you know, you experiment with what kinds of proteins make your body feel good for one person. 80. You know, like leader proteins like maybe they do better with fish and poultry, and someone else does better with red need. We're really focusing on those things first, when you're putting your meals together and then carbs or should be the last thing you're thinking about, unless it's non starchy carbs like regular vegetables, that's fine.
spk_0: 27:45
Yeah, I tried toe go for of lean protein and then to vegetables, and one's more carbon based right instead of like, Oh, I need to have rice with this or noodles. You know, you don't need tohave that starchy side that typical with dinner. I think that's super important to realize. Do you do any testing, or do you advocate for checking your key tones in your glucose when you're kind of going through this transition?
spk_1: 28:16
Um, do I do testing Yes, I do. Testing with my patients. Um and so I like toe. I mean, I do some traditional western medicine lab work. I like to look at the CBC and a chem panel, and I like to look at fasting, insulin and glucose and ldh and hemoglobin. A one stage, it kind of see, like, what's their blood sugar control? Like I do use some of the functional test that I mentioned. You know, the Dutch, the G I map and food sensitivity testing. I don't test for key tones. Um, I kind of feel like and this is like the non scientific way is that you know that your fat adapted when you know you're able to get through your morning and you have plenty of mental clarity or not feeling like your energies dragging. And so I think a legend. People get very reliant on test strips to determine if they're in Contos ISS. And so, you know, I feel like it's one more thing to be thinking about now for some people, when they first start doing a lower carb diet or carb cycling or kitted ketogenic diets, they want that validation, and that's okay. But I don't want people using that as the be all and a long term. I think it's fine for the short term. Much like I think it's fine tractor macros for the short term, But I want people to eat more intuitively. Meaning OK, today is a hire car day. So my body is telling you it needs a little bit more sweet potato and maybe a little less healthy fat and maybe a little bit more protein, as opposed to people get becoming a slave to an app on their phone about food. Like sometimes I feel like, um, some of the apse is Aziz. Hopeful is they can be. I think sometimes outs can be. It could be one more thing where maybe if someone has compulsive tendencies that can make them feel like it's one more thing. They have to be on top of eso. I think it's fine and initially of people want to be testing to see if there are incontro sis. I think that's fine. Initially, people want to be testing. I do use blue commenters with some frequency, largely because a lot of the women that are coming to me there because of just by where they are in the life cycle there. Perimenopausal. So they're more prone to insulin resistance. I do use glow commoners because I think it's valuable to say to them if you're waking, blood sugar is 100 We got work to dio if you're waking blood sugars 115 we got work to dio, right? And here's the irony This is how long I've been in Western Medicine When I left my MP program in 2000 which is a long time ago, Um, the you know that the hot that high limit for fasting glucose was 140. Now it's we wanted 80 to 90 so it gives you some idea that we're learning, you know, lower blood sugar control is better on. We certainly don't want to be insulin resistant, so I I d used the commoners, and I use that throughout the time that I worked with women. I think that's really, really valuable because it provides them with some control. Like they get up in the morning, they stick their finger and they're like, OK, my sugars are between 80 and 90. This is exactly where it should be. This good I'm making progress. I'm heading in the right direction.
spk_0: 31:10
Yeah, I think it's a great tool toe help start to understand and then listen to your body and try to match the two together until you said, you have this more intuitive eating ability that you know what you need, and that's when you eat. And it's not because of cravings, that type of things, so it can be a great tool to start out with. But I definitely don't think you should rely solely on it. Um, what are some of the CEP X that you see your patients having when they're transitioning in tow? Fasting, You know, Do they have certain complaints or issues that you see time and time again?
spk_1: 31:50
Yeah, it's a great question. So most commonly it's, uh, I can't sleep, and sometimes that can be because they're not getting their Mac Rosen during their feeding window. And I think one of the common things that happens, we as women don't eat enough protein persons very satiating, and they're not getting their proper backers in. So I don't like to use the word calorie. I just say Mac Rose, you're not getting in to good sized meals in a six or an eight hour feeding window, and that impacts their sleep So they're waking up. We're having trouble falling asleep, or they're waking up between one and 4 a.m. which tells me it could be a blood sugar issue. Where could be the blood sugar gets so low that it's stimulating their adrenals to secrete a hormone called cortisol. So sleep is one. Energy could be another, although not as common. I would say that the 3rd 1 is probably related to hydration. So a lot of times when people are starting off with intermittent fasting, they're not getting those extra electrolytes and, you know, potassium, magnesium chloride and sodium. And so I remind them that sometimes when they're having all that hunger, that for many people make some uncomfortable psychologically makes them uncomfortable. Because I feel like if their stomachs growling, they should immediately be eating because that's we've been conditioned to believe, and so reminding them that a lot of what they need to do to address you know that physiologic and psychologic experiences surrounding hunger is to make sure they're staying really well hydrated and that they're getting in their electrolytes so I definitely have some, you know, tips and trucks around now, but I think one of the really critical things that's making sure they're staying really well hydrated while they're fasted on DSO. Those were the three most common things that I see which which you can generally easily work around. Obviously, it's more concerning if someone tells me that the fingers and their toes air getting really cold, where they get shaky a long time. That could be blood sugar related. If they're feeling like they don't have more energy, they have less, Then I usually will have them stop. And then I always say, This doesn't mean that you can ever do intermittent fasting. It just needs. Right now, your body's not ready, and so that's how we kind of work around it. But I think that a lot of people are so desperate to get gains or to lose weight with intermittent fasting, that they want to make it work, even if it doesn't work for them. And so occasionally I do encounter women and then, for that matter, that it just doesn't agree with them. And I just remind them that that's okay, you know, Sometimes there are people, uh, that need to start off having three good sized meals a day, and then at a later point in time, we can read no kind of re investigate whether or not it's a good technique for them.
spk_0: 34:27
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, some people are dealing with, you know, taxes in their system that they need to do a detox program. They're having some other reason why their body doesn't want to tap into those fat stores and release that. So I think that's a good point. Like that's why it's so important to find a functional practitioner to work with and have clear guidance and not just be off on your own willy nilly. Trailing can be dangerous.
spk_1: 34:56
It can. And I think you know, for example, I was telling my team with the teen aiding and I said, I don't love the word detox when it's used inappropriately because our bodies detox every day, you know, we defecated, we urinate, we breathe, we sweat on our bodies do that naturally. But in the context that you and I are talking about, a supervised detox is very different than sometimes I hear that word years, and I think people don't understand that. Um, you know, some of these products that are utilised for these kinds of things you have to work with someone that actually understands that, you know, there are multiple phases of detoxification, the liver, and if one gets fed up and the other next days is not working efficiently. Ah, that could be hugely problematic. And I and I love that you mentioned. You know why? Sometimes our bodies will hold on to wait. You know, it could be related to toxins, as you mentioned. And I always like to think, you know, I worked with someone a few years ago and they didn't realize that there were multiple phases of detoxification, the liver, and they put me on this protocol and within like, a week, I was nearly suicidal and film awful and was exhausted and, you know, my functional medicine provider, who I went I then developed a relationship with after I went through this whole situation, said, Oh, it's because, you know, you're you know, your mother probably had a lot of mercury amalgams, and then when you were in utero, you kind of absorb some of this mercury. And now, you know, these mercury levels in my body were so high, and when they were putting me through this very rivers detox, my body just literally was like, could not handle one more thing. Uh, and so once all the products were stopped and I was, you know, worked with this functional, medicine trained physician. I was fine, But it really brought to light that, you know, putting someone through detox whose body is not ready to do that can be harmful on definitely makes me very, very sensitive. Just some of the experiences that we go through his clinicians and as well as our in patient population. Teoh.
spk_0: 36:51
Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And you mentioned the Dutch test earlier. I do that for a lot of my patients because it gives us such great information about how our D tax system is working in our living. Right. So we can see Are we having a build up of the more concerning estrogen metabolites as opposed to the good estrogen that keeps us balanced? And so there's definitely testing out there that we can see. How are we functioning? You know, It's not just, hey, your liver enzymes on your blood panel look normal. You know, that's what I used to tell patients. I'd be like, Oh, they're fine or even worse there slightly elevated. But it's not concerning because you don't have fatty liver, right? So you don't have actual diagnosis yet, but you were trending. And now we realized that it's so much more important to stop that trend as soon as it starts and so we can do testing toe. Look at how is your detoxification pathways? And it's just so important to work with people like you and I to make sure that's happening. So tell me a little bit more about your holistic wellness or I'm sorry your holistic blueprint program is Is that the group program that you mentioned?
spk_1: 38:12
Yeah, it's one of the great problem that I have. We now call it WB two point. Oh, so you know, I always say we evolved shift and change, and I tinker with programs, you know, maybe things need to be longer. Maybe things need to be shorter. And so now it's an eight week program, all done online. Each week has a different focus and So it's are so would sleep in hydration. And then we dive into kind of a broad based elimination diet with intermittent fasting that we divert a digestion of the endocrine system, which obviously all of the snow is so important. And then, you know, we talked about toxins and personal care products, environment and food, which I think a lot of people don't know about. Um and then we talk about self care. I mean, how many women don't do enough self care enough Focus on were So we're always giving to others and then not realizing that ultimately we need to serve ourselves for So it's a really comprehensive program. We do a lot of great group calls, and it's actually I always call it like my flagship program because it's the 1st 1 that I created. But it's also the one that's still near and dear to my heart because each component of that program really if women really understand and they listen to what's taught to them and we do, the group calls and the implement changes can really provide them with a very different long term perspective. We don't do testing in the program that's more for the one of ones. I think it's hard as a clinician toe, have a large group of people and offer to testing to because it takes time. As you know, I mean even the Dutch test. I always tell people, you know, it's even even with experience. It takes an hour to review it, come up with a plan, create a plan and then you've got to meet with someone privately and it's Ah, it's a complicated test. This is why it's important for people to work with someone that actually has the training to interpret the test, cause I always say, Gosh, how many of those did I actually run before? I never even offered it. Andi took a class that was, you know, took me a couple months to finish. So the point being testing a super valuable. But you have to work with someone that has the training to interpret the test. Otherwise, it's a very expensive chest, and, um, you know, you don't want to make that investment and paying for the test and not get great results. That's really what it comes down to, and I do see people in the wellness space the border functional diagnostic testing and don't have the training, and sometimes they end up on my doorstep. I'm sure you see them to, uh and I always I always kind of feel badly because I know that person spent a lot of money having the test done and spending a lot of money on the person interpreting it. And I'm getting a completely different perspective on, you know, on the testing itself. And I always tell my own patients I'm like, Listen, I'm not gonna order a test so much you needed or I think that there's gonna be some value from information that we get from it. But I do find that tests like the Dutch sometimes for people who don't want to hear their life back, you know, they're the super tight day. Super intense. Don't want to sleep over exercising restrictive food eating when they get the results. And like their melatonin is really, really low. And I keep telling them I need you. I need you doing sleep hygiene. I need using blue blockers. I need to going to bed earlier, not doing such intense exercise and sometimes when you can quantify like this is what your body is doing right now. And this isn't weird that this isn't contrived. We didn't make these numbers up, you know, really trying Teoh Demonstrate or show them that you know, your body perceives that you're being chased by a saber toothed hunger. You know it. And we're not back in cavemen and cave woman days. This is modern day society and for a lot of us in our bodies perceived that were under duress and stress and so really, really critical to make sure that we're taking care of our bodies. This that's become
spk_0: 41:44
yeah. I think that's really important that we realize we are just doing that. Rushing women's syndrome were all over busy. We're just doing too much. I Oh, sorry of salmon brain black. That happens.
spk_1: 42:03
God, you know, it doesn't just
spk_0: 42:04
happen to me. No, I doesn't. And the funny thing is, I am going on like, 22 hours of fast right now, and so I This will be a good testament to see if I can keep my brain clear and see if it's working for me or not. So obviously it's not working the greatest. But
spk_1: 42:23
is this What's the longest fast you've ever done.
spk_0: 42:26
I have done probably a day and 1/2. Well, I don't know the hours, but it was about a day and 1/2 so, um, and I struggled through that. So yeah, this makes sense that I'm hitting the 22 hour mark or something like that. And
spk_1: 42:43
that's a hard time for a lot of people. I find myself when I do a 24 hour, I'm usually fine. So without 20 hours, the last four hours can be challenging for sure.
spk_0: 42:52
Yeah. Yeah, and that's when you know, toe, cut it out and go eat Nice protein and healthy fats, right? Wave the white flag. Call it good. No, that's awesome. Well, I've just loved listening to all your wisdom about how nutrition plays such a key role in women's health. And I want women to seek you out and work with you because I think you're amazing. So tell my listeners where they can find you.
spk_1: 43:22
Yeah, So I've got a great podcast called everyday wellness that you can find online. You can find me on my website www dot Cynthia carroll o dot com, and I'm active on Facebook. Instagram and Twitter. You can also find me on lengthen, although I tend not toe hang out there too much and I'm slowly growing my YouTube channel. Um, kicking and screaming. I just feel like it's hard to be all places on doing all the things, but I'm definitely would love Teoh. And there's also I have ah free Facebook group. It's intermittent fasting lifestyle, backslash my name that you can find me if you're interested in learning more about intermittent fasting, and I go in and do Facebook lives every week and try to offer up some content. Also allows me Teoh use it is guinea pigging. I'm in the midst of writing a book, so allows me to have an opportunity to see what content really resonates with my ladies or not. And, uh, anyway, I would love to connect with any of your listeners online or be on my website.
spk_0: 44:18
Awesome. Thank you so much. Definitely links in my show notes and hopefully we'll connect again soon.
spk_1: 44:28
That was great.
spk_0: 44:28
Thank you. By
spk_1: 44:30
a welcome by
spk_0: 44:33
Well, how'd you like that? Full pa? I had a total brain fire during my interview and Cynthia was gracious enough to help me recover from that. But I went. It's, um, pistachio nuts. I guess 22 hours is my marker of pay. It's time to be done with intermittent fasting for today. I think that's just a really good lesson that it takes time to re train your body to get into key. Tose is burn fat for fuel and be able to utilize that fuel is your energy. So my mind worked great for most of the day, and then I kind of hit a wall. And so I think you need to be aware that that can happen. And when you're ready to break your fast, do you want to be smart about it and eat healthy fats and lean proteins? You don't want to jump back into any process sugar, for sure, or simple carbohydrates, because that big spike in glucose is going to overshoot your pancreas secreting insulin. And you wanted to be a smooth transition out of fat burning back in sugar burning. So it doesn't matter how you break your fast, and I'm gonna have to do a full episode on intermittent fasting. It's obvious that we need to sit down and we need to talk about exactly how to do it and what benefits are because the research is clear that balances your hormones. It is great for mental clarity for weight loss, but you have to be smart about it and have to know when to stop. So thanks for tuning in and listening to me. I hope you got a good laugh out of my little brain fart there. And if you still want to listen to me hit the subscribe button and leave me a review five stars would be amazing. Shoot me your questions so I can show you out on my question of the week on Fridays. I want to serve you. This is why I'm doing this. Let me know what you wanted hear about and I will make it happen. So follow me on Instagram and Facebook and Dr Tabatha D r t a B a t h a No eyes just aids. And I will see you back here next week. So go out and have a kick ass week. Ladies, by
I am Dr Tabatha, the functional gynecologist. I'm a board certified OBY, giant and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey. And I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. So if you're struggling, hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety and son, you name it, then you come to the right place. I want to be your functional gynecologist. So welcome. I'm really honored to have my guest on today. Her name is Cynthia Thurlow. She is a sought after successful entrepreneur, nurse practitioner, intermittent fasting and nutrition expert. Founder of Cynthia Thurlow LLC, co author of Primal Eating and co host of a podcast called Everyday Wellness. I first found Cynthia through her Ted X talk on YouTube, and I was blown away by how graceful and honest and wise this woman Waas, you're gonna love listening to her today, her bio reads. As an advocate for living a fulfilled, healthy and well balanced lifestyle, Cynthia has committed her career to serving women coming of age. She's disrupting the notion that this is just how it is and now settle and accept it. She's leading the way for change. As part of that endeavor, Cynthia brings over 20 years of medical experience, combined with current and progressive nutritional perspectives and approaches to truly serve those in need. She provides hope and customized programs that work. So I want you to go on her website, Cynthia Thurlow dot com, and check that out. Like I said, she has been a headache speaker twice. Her second talk reached 5.3 million views, and it was on intermittent fasting. She's been a guest on numerous podcasts, including the JJ Virgin Reignite Wellness Show, Natalie Jill's Leveling Up 365 driven with Tony Watley, Low Carbon de Podcast with doctors Trow and Less Kiss in the University of Adversity, to name a few. She's been featured on ABC Fox five KT. L. A Pix 11 medium and Entrepreneur magazine and speaks on intermittent fasting, hormonal health, fat loss, self care in the power of whole food, nutrition, carb, cycling, adapted genic herbs, they just of health and more. She's worked with thousands of individuals with commitment toe, live their lives not just holistically but holy, balanced and genuinely fulfilled. So I am super humbled in honored Teoh interview Cynthia today. So I know that you'll enjoy this and you'll get a ton of useful information out of our conversation. So here we go. Well, welcome, Cynthia. Thanks for being on the functional gynecologist. Podcast.
spk_1: 3:26
Thanks so much for having me. It's really my pleasure.
spk_0: 3:28
Yeah, you are just a wealth of knowledge. And the first time I saw you, I had mentioned an intro was on your Ted X talk. It was super impressed just how grounded you were and how sure you were of yourself and that you weren't afraid, Toe. Just get out there and help other women. I just that, you know, rings true to me. So how long have you been in the wellness space? Yeah,
spk_1: 3:56
so I'm traditionally trained in Western medicine. So I did 16 years as an MP in cardiology, and I think it was really when I had Children that it kind of shifted my focus a bit. I mean, I there's obviously a need for Western medicine. I'm not being critical of it, but there's not a lot of emphasis on food and nutrition and wellness. It's, you know, I was trained in preventive medicine. But that's not a lot of what you do in cardiology. It's more reflexive. It's after the fact. And so I think when my oldest developed really significant life threatening food allergies, that it caused me to take a little bit of a closer look. A how we're living our life style, which was always healthy by normal standards but really looking and taking a deeper dive, Looking at the influence of nutrition, of on health and wellness and recognizing that, you know, the processed food industry is not doing us any benefits. Ah, and it's largely leaving us a sick, obese and disease society. So I think that's really where it stem from. And then the longer I was practicing, I was more more frustrated that I was not able to influence patients. And the way that I wanted to, you know, I was prescribing the medications and setting them up for tests and doing all the research based modalities that were expected of me for my heart. You know, the longer I was doing, it just wasn't in it. And so I did pivoted about four years ago and left clinical medicine to start a you know, an entrepreneurial journey and what makes me laugh. But I don't I really think I knew what that looked like when I started, and so I kind of fell into, uh, female hormone a health because I was like many people in their forties and peri menopause and felt like I got stuck. It wasn't getting the answers that I desperately needed and wanted. And so I started creating programs and all of the women that were coming to me were coming to me with the same questions, concerns and issues. And so from there, uh, you know, just continue to, you know, find opportunities to be able to serve women in a greater, uh, capacity. And so that's how I stumbled into doing two Ted talks, one of the ones that you mentioned, and so that's really been exciting. To feel like the work I'm doing now is perhaps more impactful than what I was ever doing before, and then having an opportunity to meet so many people from all over the United States and elsewhere that are, you know, in the same mindset. I don't feel like I'm a duck out of water anymore. I think for a few years I did. And you know, a lot of my nurse practitioner in position colleagues would kind of scratch their heads and like Okay, well, she's kind of getting this out of her system, and eventually it'll go away. But it really hasn't. It's become were truly in a life of its own. And so I'm very, very grateful that I took that leap of faith. But that's a bit on how I came. Teoh This kind of circuitous journey to where I am now.
spk_0: 6:41
Yeah, I love that. Oh, my gosh. I totally felt out of place and alone in the conventional medical world. Once I started focusing on my diet in my lifestyle and, you know, practicing prevention and wellness. And they looked at me like I was crazy. So and it does feel so good to finally find other people like you who are doing it and you're rocking it like you arts helping so many women. It's amazing my listeners will you explain the difference between a nutritionist or dietitian and a functional nutritionist? Because I when I first started on this journey, the first thing I did was clean up my diet. I got rid of that standard American diet, and it made such a huge impact on how I felt overall and getting my auto immune disease under control. I just I want people to understand that it's not like your typical government food pyramid and following the 80 recommendations like Tell me the difference.
spk_1: 7:51
Yeah, it's a great question. So traditionally changed, registered dietitians, RDS or nutritionists work off of the Food Guide pyramid. They work off of USDA recommendations there, more traditionally trained in a very grain and gluten free heavy diet. They're not focused on in, and I'm not being critical. I want to be really clear about that, much like what traditional Western medicine trained providers air not really taught much in terms of nutrition. They're looking at things through a very narrow lens. And so when I look at functional training, we're looking at root cause we're looking a bit deeper. We're looking at quality of food. We're looking others. Ah, great book called pot injures cats, talking about the evolution of the quality of the cat's diet and and the diseases that came from that diet or not. And so you know, from a functional perspective. We're looking about deeper. We're not just dealing with symptoms were looking at root causes. And, for example, if someone came to me as a when I was functioning in my traditional role with sleep issues, I would just prescribe something to make. I'm sleep I wouldn't be looking to see. Is that a blood sugar issue? Is there too much stress in their personal lives? Are the eating the wrong combinations of macron's like perching fat carbohydrates? So I always say that someone who has functionally trained, whether it's, ah, nurse, physician registered dietitian, etcetera, they're going to look at things through a different lens. They're going to be looking at bio individuality, which means they're going to be looking at you as an individual, not just as every woman over the age of X gets these things. Every man over the age of X gets these things, and that's really how we were trained. I was explaining to someone the other day that in cardiology I prescribed anti hypertensive all the time, So blood pressure lowering medication and I used to tell people that I started to recognize that you could have 10 people with a diagnosis of high blood pressure and you had to treat Each time you eat, each person has their own individual. And so that was so out of context. From the way that I was trained, it was like, this is the front line drug to use. And then if that doesn't work, you have this drug and right, that doesn't work. You add this drug and I came to understand that a lot of medicine is like cooking, meaning, you know, sometimes you have to add a little bit more of this spice and a little less of this to make things work. But recognizing that we're all bio individuals. And so you know, from a broad stroke perspective, when I think about functionally trained providers versus traditionally Western medicine trained providers is separate markets root cause versus symptom management. That's the easiest way to differentiate them. And I think we really do a patient a huge disservice if we aren't looking at them as individuals, different genetics, different stress management styles, different level of physical activity, sleep quality, etcetera and and the the food pieces absolutely instrumental. You know, you had mentioned that you had an autoimmune disorder that was, um, improved by changing your diet and for me, I love telling people this story. 20 years ago, I was diagnosed with Lyme and I was treated appropriately. Thank God what I developed six months after having a round of antibiotics with psoriasis, and I had that for years and it would flare when I got stressed and I was taking topical steroids, and I just thought it was something I had to live with and on my own. I decided to go gluten free, and all of a sudden, when I went gluten free, my psoriasis went away and my dermatologist was stunned. Like she loves telling people, You know, I have a patient who got off of all their steroids because they went gluten free. And I said, If we then understands what happens when we take antibiotics that we developed this hyper permeability of the small intestine, which makes us more susceptible to developing autoimmune disorders, you know, why wouldn't we want to be looking at things differently? Like, I don't want to be on medication chronically unless I absolutely have to be. And I think that, you know, we really owe it to our patients to look at things through a different lens. I mean, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to end. I think it's really critical that we evolved, shift and change as providers and humans like. We can't remain rigid in our dogma. That is one of the things that I I've been most, um, my dogs. That is one of the things that I've had to really struggle with is that some people are so rigid in their dogma, and it could be about anything that they aren't willing to think outside the box. Like I regularly get into spirited conversations on Twitter, for example, because there's some people who are so rigid about their nutritional dog hman calories in calories, out and breakfast being the most important meal of the day. And I just remind them like part of being a clinician is being open minded, like we're ultimately trained to be scientists or at least be curious about. You know, it might be an end of one or an end of two, but we still want to be looking and trying new things and being open minded and receptive, and we wanna have a curious mind. I tell my Children all the time that you want to be a lifelong learner. It's really important to be open minded about alternative perspectives and ideologies.
spk_0: 12:53
Yeah, definitely. I think that's where ah lot of clinicians go wrong is they get their training, they go out into practice and then they practiced the same way for 20 or 30 years. And you know what I learned in medical school was already outdated when they taught it to me. So if I miss sitting here practicing that 15 years later how dated am I? We need toe follow the research. We need to change and be open like you're saying Teoh What We don't know Because I think we know about 1%. Really? You know so much that we don't know it's ever evolving. And we need Teoh put the egos aside and say, Hey, you know what? I don't know everything, and it's okay, but I'm going to keep learning, and I'm gonna keep bringing you the latest information, and we're gonna try to get you better, you know? Yeah. So I think
spk_1: 13:48
that humility is really critical that we have to it and it's okay. Like I even tell some of my patients now Sometimes I don't know, but I'm gonna find out the answer. And, you know, being a life long learner is part of acknowledging there's no way we could know everything about everything. Like just absolutely. No way.
spk_0: 14:07
Exactly. So if your doctor is saying that this is the way and they know best, then you probably want toe find somebody else, right? Yes. Okay. On your website, you work with women, and you coach them, You say, by individuality is key. Tell me about your coaching program.
spk_1: 14:27
Yeah. So I've started to scale back on my one on ones. I do still work with a very small group of women, probably less than 15 that I meet with. Usually, you know, I work from every 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes longer. Sometimes we're in a maintenance program. But I have a couple of group programs that I designed in response to needs. Ah, once fault, holistic blueprint, which is what I believe to be foundational to women's health and a women north of 35 beyond. Kind of walking them through critical areas that they need to focus on things. This simple is sleeping, hydration and a lot of us. We never talk to our patients about that, ever, but really starting at foundational Lee and then each week kind of building on that. I've got an intermittent fasting program that's all done online. I also have a program which were in the midst of renaming called Find Your Inner Goddess. But it's essentially, you know, kicking sugar to the code There are, and I'm sure there are a lot of women that are listening. This is probably completely understand that, you know, sugar addiction Israel, and it's not something to be taken lightly that, you know, Sugar infiltrates so much of our lives that it's really a huge issue and hugely inflammatory. So those were the typical kind of broad programs that I'm doing. Um, that I do throughout the year just depends, and I think it's interesting we're in the midst of a big launch for holistic blueprint. When Kobe, it started to kind of pick up steam. And so everyone that registered for the program we kept saying, you know, we're not going anywhere. We just want to kind of get through, you know, the next six weeks or so reevaluate things were hoping toe open registration again in day. And then you start the program, Probably May or June, but, uh, yeah, run those programs throughout the year, which is a lot of fun. I do everything online. So people conjoined from anywhere in United States, and we've even got a few that during Europe, which is really fun.
spk_0: 16:20
Oh, that's awesome. So women are seeking you out for nutritional guidance, help with their sugar addictions. You know, I see a lot of women, my office who insist of it, They can't get off the sugar, you know, like, don't even bother trying to change my diet because it has a hold on me. And what would you say to that? That woman who, you know, feels like she can't even stop eating that stuff.
spk_1: 16:47
Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of it's baby steps, and some people are ready to pay you money, but aren't ready to do the work. Meaning they acknowledge they have a problem. They know they have a problem. They know they need support and they're not ready to do the work. So when someone started using those limiting beliefs of you know it's got too strong a hold on me. I can't do this. And I just What would your life be like differently, you know? Wouldn't it be nice toe have consistent energy throughout the day? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sleep? Wouldn't it be nice to not feel like you are? You have a monkey on your back that you're not driven by cravings, and you're driven by a strong desire to fuel your Broady appropriately. And so we really start from there. And I always remind people that small changes have a big impact. I find that for a lot of women, they need to do testing to really, uh, you know, provide some conceptual basis, like food sensitivity testing. And you know, the G I map, which is a powerful stool task you can look for. You know, it's common to see just by assists or underlying can data. If someone's got a really, really strong sugar addiction that there are gut microbiome imbalances or even the Dutch, which I'm sure you're familiar with looking at, you know, sex hormones and melatonin and cortisol on and things like that that can influence all of that. But I remind people, you know, what are their desires? What are they hoping to achieve? I tried to redirect their focus and just reminding them a part of our work together, whether perverts and group or one on one is really helping them write their own. I write their own kind of prescription, if you will, for what health and wellness is. You know, some people don't do well with elimination diets because they're just not ready to do the work. Other people, once they pull those inflammatory foods out, all of a sudden I feel so much better that it just reinforces continued good habits. And so I I like to remind people, you know, what ultimately do you want? I have a lot of women that will say, You know, I never had a weight problem till I hit perimenopause and then all of a sudden, it's like they've got insulin resistance. Their sleep is terrible, their stress levels are out the, you know, out the door and they over exercise. And so, trying to find, you know, some common ground about how we can start changing some of these things. And it could be a simple is getting someone to sleep 78 hours a night with high quality sleep, like again going back to foundational principles that are really, really critical for, um, you know, health a promise. And it could be something as simple. So I would say, Let's start small, small, small steps have can ultimately add up to big gains. But let's start small and achievable. Let's master that. And then we add something else.
spk_0: 19:22
Yeah, I I can attest to the sleep situation. As an obstetrician, you know, I didn't sleep for a couple decades and when I'm sure he did a priority, you know that along with changing my diet, I was actually able to get control of how I felt, you know, And that was really empowering. So I want women out there to know that you do have a choice and how you feel and your habits condemn. Definitely change that. Once I got some sleep and I started eating the right foods and healing my gut. Like you said, I wasn't a slave to the sugar, wasn't talking to me all day long anymore. And I love that you use what you're eating, but also when you're eating as an important part of managing symptoms. So let's talk about intermittent fasting a little bit. When did you start getting into that?
spk_1: 20:19
No, it was almost five years ago. It was funny. I had a week where in the In the midst of conversations of three women in my life, the topic cut coming up and so, being the typical person I am like, I need to do my research. I bought a book. I bought Jason phones book, read that and then started doing it. And I felt like it gave me my life back. In many ways, I have never been I would never die. I would never say that I was ever obese. But with peri menopause, I'd put on £10 which, when you're five foot three, makes a big difference in how you feel. And so my sleep was terrible. I was over exercising my job, and cardiology was super stressful. My husband traveled, and so the only thing that I could really control at that point as a starter was okay, I'm not gonna eat breakfast. And so I stopped eating breakfast and then all of a sudden you know, it went to two meals a day, and then I sleep got better. And I was, you know, feeling so much better. And I did, you know, exact an elimination diet. And so for me, it really gave me more energy, More mental clarity. Um, I definitely helped helped lose some weight, which I always jokingly say everyone comes to him and fasting for weight loss, but they stay for all the other benefits, and then we just started to do my end of one became a topic that I started discussing with my patients. And, um, you know, people really influenced by what I was saying on social media as well as, you know, with my own patient population, my family, a lot of people were influenced to try it. And people were like, I should go great. Like, I feel like I, um I feel like I probably felt when I was 25 except now I know so much more. And so, you know, although my chronological ages in my forties, I like to think that I probably feel is good as I did in my late twenties, early thirties, and so I just think that it's It's an incredible strategy, and it's free and flexible. And that's really K. There's so much of what goes on in our daily lives cost money, or it's a powder or ocean or a gimmick. And so this is something that not only can clinicians learn about two uses a strategy with their patients, but it's something that they themselves can do. And so I think when you start looking at the research on intermittent fasting, it really is. I call it the proverbial fountain of youth, but it has the benefits of being able to really harness, um, some powerful opportunities to support our bodies, much more so than, you know, spiking insulin throughout the day because we're eating three or 46 meals a day, which I mean, it makes my head spin when I think about how much of a sugar burner I waas because I would go to the gym and drink a shake. And then when I left the gym, I drink a shake, and then when I got to work, I did a small meal, and then in between seeing patients, I need something, and then I'd eat lunch and that I have a snack in the afternoon and then dinner. And I was like, Gosh, I was stoking this insulin release all day long, and maybe that was okay in my twenties and thirties, but not in my forties, man. I got to change the game and I'm like, I'm going down fighting. I'm not gonna accept that. I have to feel fat and frumpy, which was not, which is exactly how I felt because I hadn't ever so without before. I just want really inflamed and couldn't sleep and didn't feel great. So that's how it started. But obviously it's evolved into a lot form.
spk_0: 23:31
Yeah, and I tried to tell Tell my patients you're not gonna lose weight as long as you keep giving your body fuel in the form of food and sugar there. That is what they're going to burn. They're never gonna tap into your fat stores. And I find that some women have a harder time transitioning into getting back into being a fat burner. You know, it's how we were created to be that our ancestors lived. So it's possible is just that we have retrained or body in bad way to utilize this constant food that we have available. So what would you say is like the beginning steps? You know, I like how you say baby steps to get onto this. I usually tell my patients, Let's push breakfast back an hour or two and then get to the point where we skip it. Is that usually what? You're starting with your clients?
spk_1: 24:26
Yeah. So I typically say, you know, if you eat dinner at six o'clock at night and you have breakfast at eight, you've already fast in 14 hours. So I think people are reassured because in their minds, I think they're going to die. I'm gonna die if I don't eat breakfast. And so I just say, OK, if you're already doing this for 14 hours, let's try 14.5 hours. And so baby steps forward, always trying to aim for 16 hours. That's kind of the starting point. I encourage people to try to get there. Some people, they are like a duck to water. They go from 12 13 14 hours to 16 very easily others it may take them to refer weeks to become fat adapted, and so again it goes back to bio individually checking in with yourself. You know, when you're fasted, you should have your stomach. Maybe growling. But that's okay. Um, you know, you should have more mental clarity. You should have more energy if you don't. If you were consistently dragging, it might not be the right strategy at that point in time. And I think it's also really critical to mention people baby steps with regard to fasting and feeding windows, but making sure that you're starting to make small, subtle shifts about how your fueling your body really focusing on protein first. That is the most important macronutrients in my humble opinion and so also really important and critical when people are getting older. Uh, you know, Star Kapini A, which is this muscle wasting that occurs really starts to escalate after age 40. So protein and some healthy fats and then earn your carbohydrates like it should not be that we sit down and we have this massive plate of pasta or a massive place of plate of rights because, you know, it's not that first, all we technically don't need carbohydrates. And that's not a opinion that is that people like to hear. We need protein and healthy fats, so carbs should be earned. Carbs should be. Quantity should not be exorbitant. And by that you know it means 1/3 of a cup, 1/2 a cup of sweet potato or rice or keen walk. And if you tolerate grains, I'm a huge fan of getting more vegetable based. Root vegetable squash Sweet potato potatoes are more of where I kind of gravitate towards, Really, you know, looking at how your body responds to carbohydrates, how it feels. There's a really great book called Wire T by Robert Wolf. I strongly encourage people if they're interested in learning more about the car tolerance to really look at that book because it can be highly helpful. You know, I find like I have to Well, one's 12 once. 14. But my boys are. Their metabolisms are like hummingbirds, so obviously they can eat a whole lot more carbohydrates than I can. But even for themselves, you know they're not competitive swimmers right now. They're out of the pool. They're not doing cross for the not playing football. They are active, but not as much as they were. And so we're educating them about their bodies. Okay, let's focus on the protein first, that let's make sure you gotta print you know you got a healthy fat and then add in the carbohydrate. And so I think that's a reasonable, um, a reasonable discussion to have. And it stops that. Maybe that you know, you experiment with what kinds of proteins make your body feel good for one person. 80. You know, like leader proteins like maybe they do better with fish and poultry, and someone else does better with red need. We're really focusing on those things first, when you're putting your meals together and then carbs or should be the last thing you're thinking about, unless it's non starchy carbs like regular vegetables, that's fine.
spk_0: 27:45
Yeah, I tried toe go for of lean protein and then to vegetables, and one's more carbon based right instead of like, Oh, I need to have rice with this or noodles. You know, you don't need tohave that starchy side that typical with dinner. I think that's super important to realize. Do you do any testing, or do you advocate for checking your key tones in your glucose when you're kind of going through this transition?
spk_1: 28:16
Um, do I do testing Yes, I do. Testing with my patients. Um and so I like toe. I mean, I do some traditional western medicine lab work. I like to look at the CBC and a chem panel, and I like to look at fasting, insulin and glucose and ldh and hemoglobin. A one stage, it kind of see, like, what's their blood sugar control? Like I do use some of the functional test that I mentioned. You know, the Dutch, the G I map and food sensitivity testing. I don't test for key tones. Um, I kind of feel like and this is like the non scientific way is that you know that your fat adapted when you know you're able to get through your morning and you have plenty of mental clarity or not feeling like your energies dragging. And so I think a legend. People get very reliant on test strips to determine if they're in Contos ISS. And so, you know, I feel like it's one more thing to be thinking about now for some people, when they first start doing a lower carb diet or carb cycling or kitted ketogenic diets, they want that validation, and that's okay. But I don't want people using that as the be all and a long term. I think it's fine for the short term. Much like I think it's fine tractor macros for the short term, But I want people to eat more intuitively. Meaning OK, today is a hire car day. So my body is telling you it needs a little bit more sweet potato and maybe a little less healthy fat and maybe a little bit more protein, as opposed to people get becoming a slave to an app on their phone about food. Like sometimes I feel like, um, some of the apse is Aziz. Hopeful is they can be. I think sometimes outs can be. It could be one more thing where maybe if someone has compulsive tendencies that can make them feel like it's one more thing. They have to be on top of eso. I think it's fine and initially of people want to be testing to see if there are incontro sis. I think that's fine. Initially, people want to be testing. I do use blue commenters with some frequency, largely because a lot of the women that are coming to me there because of just by where they are in the life cycle there. Perimenopausal. So they're more prone to insulin resistance. I do use glow commoners because I think it's valuable to say to them if you're waking, blood sugar is 100 We got work to dio if you're waking blood sugars 115 we got work to dio, right? And here's the irony This is how long I've been in Western Medicine When I left my MP program in 2000 which is a long time ago, Um, the you know that the hot that high limit for fasting glucose was 140. Now it's we wanted 80 to 90 so it gives you some idea that we're learning, you know, lower blood sugar control is better on. We certainly don't want to be insulin resistant, so I I d used the commoners, and I use that throughout the time that I worked with women. I think that's really, really valuable because it provides them with some control. Like they get up in the morning, they stick their finger and they're like, OK, my sugars are between 80 and 90. This is exactly where it should be. This good I'm making progress. I'm heading in the right direction.
spk_0: 31:10
Yeah, I think it's a great tool toe help start to understand and then listen to your body and try to match the two together until you said, you have this more intuitive eating ability that you know what you need, and that's when you eat. And it's not because of cravings, that type of things, so it can be a great tool to start out with. But I definitely don't think you should rely solely on it. Um, what are some of the CEP X that you see your patients having when they're transitioning in tow? Fasting, You know, Do they have certain complaints or issues that you see time and time again?
spk_1: 31:50
Yeah, it's a great question. So most commonly it's, uh, I can't sleep, and sometimes that can be because they're not getting their Mac Rosen during their feeding window. And I think one of the common things that happens, we as women don't eat enough protein persons very satiating, and they're not getting their proper backers in. So I don't like to use the word calorie. I just say Mac Rose, you're not getting in to good sized meals in a six or an eight hour feeding window, and that impacts their sleep So they're waking up. We're having trouble falling asleep, or they're waking up between one and 4 a.m. which tells me it could be a blood sugar issue. Where could be the blood sugar gets so low that it's stimulating their adrenals to secrete a hormone called cortisol. So sleep is one. Energy could be another, although not as common. I would say that the 3rd 1 is probably related to hydration. So a lot of times when people are starting off with intermittent fasting, they're not getting those extra electrolytes and, you know, potassium, magnesium chloride and sodium. And so I remind them that sometimes when they're having all that hunger, that for many people make some uncomfortable psychologically makes them uncomfortable. Because I feel like if their stomachs growling, they should immediately be eating because that's we've been conditioned to believe, and so reminding them that a lot of what they need to do to address you know that physiologic and psychologic experiences surrounding hunger is to make sure they're staying really well hydrated and that they're getting in their electrolytes so I definitely have some, you know, tips and trucks around now, but I think one of the really critical things that's making sure they're staying really well hydrated while they're fasted on DSO. Those were the three most common things that I see which which you can generally easily work around. Obviously, it's more concerning if someone tells me that the fingers and their toes air getting really cold, where they get shaky a long time. That could be blood sugar related. If they're feeling like they don't have more energy, they have less, Then I usually will have them stop. And then I always say, This doesn't mean that you can ever do intermittent fasting. It just needs. Right now, your body's not ready, and so that's how we kind of work around it. But I think that a lot of people are so desperate to get gains or to lose weight with intermittent fasting, that they want to make it work, even if it doesn't work for them. And so occasionally I do encounter women and then, for that matter, that it just doesn't agree with them. And I just remind them that that's okay, you know, Sometimes there are people, uh, that need to start off having three good sized meals a day, and then at a later point in time, we can read no kind of re investigate whether or not it's a good technique for them.
spk_0: 34:27
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, some people are dealing with, you know, taxes in their system that they need to do a detox program. They're having some other reason why their body doesn't want to tap into those fat stores and release that. So I think that's a good point. Like that's why it's so important to find a functional practitioner to work with and have clear guidance and not just be off on your own willy nilly. Trailing can be dangerous.
spk_1: 34:56
It can. And I think you know, for example, I was telling my team with the teen aiding and I said, I don't love the word detox when it's used inappropriately because our bodies detox every day, you know, we defecated, we urinate, we breathe, we sweat on our bodies do that naturally. But in the context that you and I are talking about, a supervised detox is very different than sometimes I hear that word years, and I think people don't understand that. Um, you know, some of these products that are utilised for these kinds of things you have to work with someone that actually understands that, you know, there are multiple phases of detoxification, the liver, and if one gets fed up and the other next days is not working efficiently. Ah, that could be hugely problematic. And I and I love that you mentioned. You know why? Sometimes our bodies will hold on to wait. You know, it could be related to toxins, as you mentioned. And I always like to think, you know, I worked with someone a few years ago and they didn't realize that there were multiple phases of detoxification, the liver, and they put me on this protocol and within like, a week, I was nearly suicidal and film awful and was exhausted and, you know, my functional medicine provider, who I went I then developed a relationship with after I went through this whole situation, said, Oh, it's because, you know, you're you know, your mother probably had a lot of mercury amalgams, and then when you were in utero, you kind of absorb some of this mercury. And now, you know, these mercury levels in my body were so high, and when they were putting me through this very rivers detox, my body just literally was like, could not handle one more thing. Uh, and so once all the products were stopped and I was, you know, worked with this functional, medicine trained physician. I was fine, But it really brought to light that, you know, putting someone through detox whose body is not ready to do that can be harmful on definitely makes me very, very sensitive. Just some of the experiences that we go through his clinicians and as well as our in patient population. Teoh.
spk_0: 36:51
Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And you mentioned the Dutch test earlier. I do that for a lot of my patients because it gives us such great information about how our D tax system is working in our living. Right. So we can see Are we having a build up of the more concerning estrogen metabolites as opposed to the good estrogen that keeps us balanced? And so there's definitely testing out there that we can see. How are we functioning? You know, It's not just, hey, your liver enzymes on your blood panel look normal. You know, that's what I used to tell patients. I'd be like, Oh, they're fine or even worse there slightly elevated. But it's not concerning because you don't have fatty liver, right? So you don't have actual diagnosis yet, but you were trending. And now we realized that it's so much more important to stop that trend as soon as it starts and so we can do testing toe. Look at how is your detoxification pathways? And it's just so important to work with people like you and I to make sure that's happening. So tell me a little bit more about your holistic wellness or I'm sorry your holistic blueprint program is Is that the group program that you mentioned?
spk_1: 38:12
Yeah, it's one of the great problem that I have. We now call it WB two point. Oh, so you know, I always say we evolved shift and change, and I tinker with programs, you know, maybe things need to be longer. Maybe things need to be shorter. And so now it's an eight week program, all done online. Each week has a different focus and So it's are so would sleep in hydration. And then we dive into kind of a broad based elimination diet with intermittent fasting that we divert a digestion of the endocrine system, which obviously all of the snow is so important. And then, you know, we talked about toxins and personal care products, environment and food, which I think a lot of people don't know about. Um and then we talk about self care. I mean, how many women don't do enough self care enough Focus on were So we're always giving to others and then not realizing that ultimately we need to serve ourselves for So it's a really comprehensive program. We do a lot of great group calls, and it's actually I always call it like my flagship program because it's the 1st 1 that I created. But it's also the one that's still near and dear to my heart because each component of that program really if women really understand and they listen to what's taught to them and we do, the group calls and the implement changes can really provide them with a very different long term perspective. We don't do testing in the program that's more for the one of ones. I think it's hard as a clinician toe, have a large group of people and offer to testing to because it takes time. As you know, I mean even the Dutch test. I always tell people, you know, it's even even with experience. It takes an hour to review it, come up with a plan, create a plan and then you've got to meet with someone privately and it's Ah, it's a complicated test. This is why it's important for people to work with someone that actually has the training to interpret the test, cause I always say, Gosh, how many of those did I actually run before? I never even offered it. Andi took a class that was, you know, took me a couple months to finish. So the point being testing a super valuable. But you have to work with someone that has the training to interpret the test. Otherwise, it's a very expensive chest, and, um, you know, you don't want to make that investment and paying for the test and not get great results. That's really what it comes down to, and I do see people in the wellness space the border functional diagnostic testing and don't have the training, and sometimes they end up on my doorstep. I'm sure you see them to, uh and I always I always kind of feel badly because I know that person spent a lot of money having the test done and spending a lot of money on the person interpreting it. And I'm getting a completely different perspective on, you know, on the testing itself. And I always tell my own patients I'm like, Listen, I'm not gonna order a test so much you needed or I think that there's gonna be some value from information that we get from it. But I do find that tests like the Dutch sometimes for people who don't want to hear their life back, you know, they're the super tight day. Super intense. Don't want to sleep over exercising restrictive food eating when they get the results. And like their melatonin is really, really low. And I keep telling them I need you. I need you doing sleep hygiene. I need using blue blockers. I need to going to bed earlier, not doing such intense exercise and sometimes when you can quantify like this is what your body is doing right now. And this isn't weird that this isn't contrived. We didn't make these numbers up, you know, really trying Teoh Demonstrate or show them that you know, your body perceives that you're being chased by a saber toothed hunger. You know it. And we're not back in cavemen and cave woman days. This is modern day society and for a lot of us in our bodies perceived that were under duress and stress and so really, really critical to make sure that we're taking care of our bodies. This that's become
spk_0: 41:44
yeah. I think that's really important that we realize we are just doing that. Rushing women's syndrome were all over busy. We're just doing too much. I Oh, sorry of salmon brain black. That happens.
spk_1: 42:03
God, you know, it doesn't just
spk_0: 42:04
happen to me. No, I doesn't. And the funny thing is, I am going on like, 22 hours of fast right now, and so I This will be a good testament to see if I can keep my brain clear and see if it's working for me or not. So obviously it's not working the greatest. But
spk_1: 42:23
is this What's the longest fast you've ever done.
spk_0: 42:26
I have done probably a day and 1/2. Well, I don't know the hours, but it was about a day and 1/2 so, um, and I struggled through that. So yeah, this makes sense that I'm hitting the 22 hour mark or something like that. And
spk_1: 42:43
that's a hard time for a lot of people. I find myself when I do a 24 hour, I'm usually fine. So without 20 hours, the last four hours can be challenging for sure.
spk_0: 42:52
Yeah. Yeah, and that's when you know, toe, cut it out and go eat Nice protein and healthy fats, right? Wave the white flag. Call it good. No, that's awesome. Well, I've just loved listening to all your wisdom about how nutrition plays such a key role in women's health. And I want women to seek you out and work with you because I think you're amazing. So tell my listeners where they can find you.
spk_1: 43:22
Yeah, So I've got a great podcast called everyday wellness that you can find online. You can find me on my website www dot Cynthia carroll o dot com, and I'm active on Facebook. Instagram and Twitter. You can also find me on lengthen, although I tend not toe hang out there too much and I'm slowly growing my YouTube channel. Um, kicking and screaming. I just feel like it's hard to be all places on doing all the things, but I'm definitely would love Teoh. And there's also I have ah free Facebook group. It's intermittent fasting lifestyle, backslash my name that you can find me if you're interested in learning more about intermittent fasting, and I go in and do Facebook lives every week and try to offer up some content. Also allows me Teoh use it is guinea pigging. I'm in the midst of writing a book, so allows me to have an opportunity to see what content really resonates with my ladies or not. And, uh, anyway, I would love to connect with any of your listeners online or be on my website.
spk_0: 44:18
Awesome. Thank you so much. Definitely links in my show notes and hopefully we'll connect again soon.
spk_1: 44:28
That was great.
spk_0: 44:28
Thank you. By
spk_1: 44:30
a welcome by
spk_0: 44:33
Well, how'd you like that? Full pa? I had a total brain fire during my interview and Cynthia was gracious enough to help me recover from that. But I went. It's, um, pistachio nuts. I guess 22 hours is my marker of pay. It's time to be done with intermittent fasting for today. I think that's just a really good lesson that it takes time to re train your body to get into key. Tose is burn fat for fuel and be able to utilize that fuel is your energy. So my mind worked great for most of the day, and then I kind of hit a wall. And so I think you need to be aware that that can happen. And when you're ready to break your fast, do you want to be smart about it and eat healthy fats and lean proteins? You don't want to jump back into any process sugar, for sure, or simple carbohydrates, because that big spike in glucose is going to overshoot your pancreas secreting insulin. And you wanted to be a smooth transition out of fat burning back in sugar burning. So it doesn't matter how you break your fast, and I'm gonna have to do a full episode on intermittent fasting. It's obvious that we need to sit down and we need to talk about exactly how to do it and what benefits are because the research is clear that balances your hormones. It is great for mental clarity for weight loss, but you have to be smart about it and have to know when to stop. So thanks for tuning in and listening to me. I hope you got a good laugh out of my little brain fart there. And if you still want to listen to me hit the subscribe button and leave me a review five stars would be amazing. Shoot me your questions so I can show you out on my question of the week on Fridays. I want to serve you. This is why I'm doing this. Let me know what you wanted hear about and I will make it happen. So follow me on Instagram and Facebook and Dr Tabatha D r t a B a t h a No eyes just aids. And I will see you back here next week. So go out and have a kick ass week. Ladies, by
