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Yeah, I can imagine that when
you get to a certain level and everywhere
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you go everyone recognizes you, and
sometimes you're even being mobbed by fans,
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that it's nice to have a moment
in time where you're just the person that
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you've always been and someone else recognizes
that. Someone else recognizes who you are
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as a person, not just your
title or your status. And I'm sure
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that probably carries over to into the
elite level athletes that you guys get to
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work with, both through USA Gymnastics
USA Racketball. People always wonder, and
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that when I say people, I
primarily mean healthcare providers that are still early
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on in their careers, those that
are students that look to professionals like you
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guys, and they say, wow, I would love to do that one
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day. I bet he just knew
somebody that knew somebody, or maybe he
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was there at the right place at
the right time. But those of us
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that know you well and those of
us that have heard more about your journey
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understand that it's not as if it
just fell out of the sky and into
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your lap. There was a lot
of work that went into getting to a
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place in your career where you could
be considered for opportunities like this. I'd
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love to hear from you guys a
little bit about what that looks like early
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on in that career as a sports
practitioner. How many times were you having
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to possibly volunteer your services or check
your ego at the door and realize that
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you had a lot to learn from
some other providers you were working with.
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What was the moment I note Roger
you mentioned you had a few moments where
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you were served a little bit of
humble pie and did really have to kind
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of have that ego check. So
I'd love, especially for our listeners that
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are still early on in their journey, to hear from both of you some
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of the background of how you really
were able to start opening doors to these
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opportunities and what that looks like.
That it wasn't an overnight success. This
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wasn't something that you guys received a
phone call one day out of the blue,
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one year in practice and you were
like, oh, great, I'm
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the guy. How did this all
evolve? So for me, a lot
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of it was some personal growth,
battling with a what I would say like
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a little bit of an imposter syndrome. I always was reactive because I was
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not confident in my skills, so
I put on this where I was I
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was. I put home like I
was better than what I was, and
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through different interactions with people who who
actually knew what was going on, that's
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where my humility was put into play. And I tell you, once I
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became humble, there's a difference between
being arrogant and confident. I was humbled
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because I was not confident. So
I was portraying myself maybe a little bit
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more on the arrogant side of trying
to hide my deficiencies. Now I accept
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my deficiencies and go, let's learn
about this. Let's let's be the best
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me that I can be. And
I take it one day at a time.
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But for me as far as my
journey, once I developed that and
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knew that that's something I had to
work on my I knew that I wanted
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to work with the elite athletes,
and people were like other practitioners, you
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should look into this, X,
Y, and Z, and I looked
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into it, and then I just
I came in with open eyes, open
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ears and just wanted to work as
a team and just let my body of
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work speak for itself. And that's
again that's what I do is just I
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usually am over humble, I guess
because I don't always talk about myself or
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rag about myself or anything like that
anymore. I just do my whatever's in
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front of me, whether it's folding
a towel, stretching a hamstring, massaging
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a foot, to just sometimes listening. That's that's how I practice. And
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people practitioners, athletes, administrators,
they see that and they're like, that's
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someone that we want on our team. They're confident, silent confidence. But
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for me, I went into I
applied and I'm not afraid to volunteer,
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volunteer my time. There is at
some point you have to present a value
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in yourself of like we've been volunteering
doing these things. There needs to be
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some type of maybe financial discussion and
such, but volunteerism is what is he
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with some of these organizations that I've
been involved with and I'm working with,
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the Olympic Movement has been something.
I mean, how greater is that Being
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able to work with elite athletes from
other countries, your country in the United
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States as well as the other countries, and just seeing them success and be
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successful. It's an amazing heartfelt experience
for me, and I know that Todd
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has a very unique and I love
his story as well. I'll get in
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my story a minute, but I
want to reinforce something that Rogers said there,
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and I'll kind of interpret it in
the way that I heard it is
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Roger's a team player and he knows
his space within the team. I know
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my space within the team. And
because we know each other in that way,
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we have no problem recommending each other
when an opportunity comes up for us
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to serve on a team. Last
year, Roger asked me to work with
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him at a tournament for USA Racquetball
because he knows what my lane is.
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He knows I'll stay in my lane
and we can work together well. And
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when I have opportunities to get Roger
involved in things such as with USAG because
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I know who he is and I
know he's willing to serve, and like
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he said, if there's something in
front of him, he'll pick it up
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and do it. There's no talk
about what am I going to get out
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of this. It's just he puts
his nose to the grindstone and he gets
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to work. So I think that's
an incredibly important lesson for people that are
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looking to get into This is one
the volunteerism that Roger talked about. We
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don't get paid for some of this
stuff when I first got started, and
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I know Roger was the same way. We don't get paid for the work
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that we do field of play in
some instances, the number of marathons I
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worked, the bicycle events that I
worked, didn't get paid for those.
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It was just accumulating experience and letting
people see that I do know what I'm
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talking about, that I am different
with my skill set and trying to get
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people to understand what I'm bringing to
the table. But yeah, I wanted
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to reinforce that part. As far
as my portion of the story goes,
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it's a little bit circuitous. When
I went into college, my full intention
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was to be a physical therapist because
of the time that I had spent in
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and out of physical therapy. I
discussed my brief time with working with an
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athletic trainer for my injury, but
there are plenty of other injuries that I
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had to work through with both ats
and pts. So my intention was to
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go into physical therapy because I wanted
to go into private practice afterwards and found
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out pretty quickly when I got to
Toledo that you can't do football and physical
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therapy at the same time. So
I elected to go the kinesio therapy route
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because it was still in trenched in
rehabilitation, and I'm glad I did it.
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I got a good background in rehabilitation, in a bit in diagnosis,
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also in assessment and testing, so
I laid a bit of a foundation there
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that eventually transitioned me into owning my
Sports Performance JIM in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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And this is where I get to
have a little bit of fun because
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I was able to pull in some
of my old Toledo friends and resources.
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So that was kind of my foray
into elite level sports. When I opened
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up my gym in North Carolina,
one of my former high school and college
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teammates, Brot Kreutzberg, was on
the hunt for an NFL career and then
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quickly transitioned into elite level. Bob's
led for Team USA, ending up in
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a couple of Olympics, which I
was able to participate with him in.
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At that time, another friend of
ours came down and trained. He's a
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very accomplished CFL athlete, Mace Freeman. Roger, I know, you know
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all these names. They came down
and we're training with me there, so
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they were kind of my first foray
into elite level training for athletes. Got
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to work with several NFL athletes,
so it kind of allowed me, as
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Rogers said, to cut my teeth
in that place to learn the strength and
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conditioning and the training side of it. And then I realized that I wanted
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to add a bit more back into
that gym by adding a sports medicine component
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to that. So that led me
into chiropractic school. But very long story
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shorts. My time with Brock when
he made it to the Olympics gave me
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a lot of invaluable experience that served
me after I got out of chiropractic school.
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And it's kind of strange that a
couple of guys from Flat Ohio were
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working on getting him to slide faster
down an icy mountain, which we were
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totally unfamiliar with. But that turned
into something great when I got to Texas
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Chiropractic College and one of the students
there doctor she's now a chiropractor, doctor,
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Sean Adagun. She was the pilot
for the Nigerian Bob sled team,
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of which I was able to attend
the twenty eighteen Games with and also met
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mister Anthony Watson, who was the
first Jamaican skeleton athlete to compete at the
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Olympics as well. So I've right
place, right time, And I think
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that's the point I'm trying to make
here is like you said, Jess,
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it didn't fall into my lap.
I had to work for the opportunities and
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also be in the right place.
I was fortunate enough to work with Roger
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at the World Games last year,
where I met Tarn Moore, who was
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the medical director for USAG, and
she graciously brought an athlete or to over
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to me and networked with her and
said, hey, look, if you
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ever need anything, I would love
to participate in any way that I can
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with USAG and got a phone call
a couple of months later. So it
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literally is about putting your time in, doing the work and networking with people
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to show one who you are,
but also to show your value. So
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I think it's incredibly important for the
people that are listening to this that just
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because you have the degree, just
because you have the knowledge, doesn't necessarily
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mean that people are going to come
to you, you've got to put that
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stuff out there and make yourself available
for free work, to volunteer, but
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also to be willing to have conversations
about what you provide. So that was
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kind of a long winded answer there, but yeah, that's my story.
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Well, and it's interesting. In
the business trainings that I do, we
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always talk about this principle and I
heard this phrase once and I love talking
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about it. It's the learn it
or earn it principle, right, So
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you have the learned component, where
you use education, whether that's through degrees,
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certification, continuing education to learn new
skills and improve professionally. But then
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you also have the earn it component, right, which is where you do
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the time, you do the work, you gain the experience. And this
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translates across professions, across healthcare specifically
in a huge way because the care that
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you provide has to involve both of
those components in order for you to continue
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progressing professionally. If we were to
look at a pie chart, and I'm
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going to ask this for each of
you to answer, If you were looking
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at a pie chart and you could, from a thirty thousand foot perspective,
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give a percentage in terms of what
percentage is your earn it and what percentage
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is your learn it that you've utilized
to get to the level that you currently
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have achieved professionally. So are you
an eighty percent earn it, twenty percent
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learn it or sixty forty fifty to
fifty. What would you say has been
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kind of your spread from the learned
side and the earn it side as you've
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progressed through your career. That is
such a tough question because we're making the
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assumption that those two are mutually exclusive. And I'll use this example. I
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think you have to have the foundational
learn it part where you demonstrate that you
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have a proficiency that allows you to
at least be in the room right.
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But then there's the earn it part. So I'll say, let me call
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it twenty percent learn it, even
though it probably is higher, because I
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want to give the value to the
earn it parts. When I'm out and
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earning it, I'm still learning.
So this last competition that I was able
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to work with both Roger and France
and then carry over to England for World
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Championships, I learned so much working
with Roger and another one of the athletic
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trainers that was there, and then
popping over to England to work with one
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of our medical doctors, a doctor
of osteopathy, as well as one of
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our mental health specialists and another ATPT. Actually had two AT's there. So
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the reason I'm kind of saying I
can't give a direct distribution is because I'm
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still learning while I'm earning. But
you have to have that foundational level of
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learning to be in the room so
that you can continue that education. Again,
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I tell my pagent or my students
this all the time. They think
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that once they get out of out
of school at a chiropractic school that their
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education is over, and I say, oh, contraire, that's where it
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begins. Your education begins, because
now you've got to get out there and
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learn while you earn. That's a
great that's a great point there, Roger,
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would you agree. I don't know
how to follow up with that,
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because Todd, that's he nailed it. I mean, you have that foundation.
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Let me reiterate, you have a
foundation to get your foot in the
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door. But then you've got to
keep your You got to keep your foot
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in the door. You've got to
be able to earn your way to stay
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in the room if you will,
and if you never stop learning. I
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mean, you never stop learning.
There's always something to be learned. Every
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opportunity, every exposure, every experience, every conversation, you're learning. And
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the way you I think maybe you
interpret that learning opportunity is the way you
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also helps earn your place at the
table or stay at the room. Yeah,
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so it's very hard to say eighty
twenty or whatever. There's phases.
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Initial, you got to learn it, and then you get a midway from
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there, you're learning it all the
way through. So yeah, great job,
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Todd, great explanation. Yeah,
I would agree with that too,
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And I've heard that from several practitioners
I've spoken with over the years. It's
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really hard to separate the learn and
the earn, especially as you continue to
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progress throughout your career. How important
is it for both of you to continue
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on the education side and to continue
taking courses, investing in yourself and in
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your clinical skills professionally in that way, and how beneficial has that been in
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helping you treat athletes better and improving
your clinical skill sets so that not only
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are you out there doing the work, but then you're also bringing something new
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to the table at each event,
that you're continuing to focus on, as
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Todd you mentioned earlier, really looking
at the research and what's coming out now,
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but then also taking courses, getting
certifications like Progressing, and taking that
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time to prioritize your education so that
when you do come back to treat athletes
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again, that when you do have
that next event, you're coming to the
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table with a continual focus on being
innovative with the treatments that you're providing.
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Oh, for me, that's an
easy one. And this is where I
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got to give Roger some credit because
that's kind of how he and I reconnected
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after college. So I graduated in
nineteen ninety eight, which seems like centuries
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ago probably for some people that are
listening. And Roger, I think you
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were ninety six if I remember correctly. Yes, yes, But Roger and
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I stayed in contact afterwards for a
long time. But he came to learn
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from me at one of our Factor
courses in Atlanta in twenty fifteen. So
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one, it speaks to the importance
of continuing education, but also back to
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what Roger was saying, his humility
in allowing somebody that's younger than him.
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He had far more experience than me
in training rooms, so to speak,
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but it demonstrates his willingness to learn
and want to learn something unique, and
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I was eternally grateful that he felt
like I had something that he could learn
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from me. But yeah, I
think it's incredibly important. That's why I
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placed such a high emphasis on continuing
education. That's also why I decided to
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work within chiropractic education and actually teach
at a chiropractic school. I think that
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the learning part is so incredibly important, and personally, I'm incredibly grateful that
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Texas Chiropractic College allows me to travel
the way I do so that I can
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go gain that learning experience while I'm
earning to kind of round that back out
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so I can pass that on to
the next generation of providers. So I
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think it is important to continue our
education. There's a couple of things that
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Roger's getting into. I hopefully he'll
talk about his reflex technique that he likes
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to use. But yeah, I'm
constantly on the hunt for the I don't
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want to say the shiny thing because
I think those are fads, but the
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evidence based, guideline approved treatments that
we can use to help improve the performance
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of athletes. So I'm forever looking
for ways to improve myself so that I
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can improve both the education of my
athletes, but also the education of the
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students that I work with too.
For me, I just I want to
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be the best version of me and
provide the best care that I possibly can
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for the person that's in front of
me. And one of my I think
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it was Theodore Roosevelt. People don't
care how much you know until they know
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how much you care. But knowledge
is power, and just because you have
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a hammer, not everything's a nail. I know that's a lot of analogies,
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but staying on the cutting edge and
trying to stay abreast of what's going
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on, I think Todd maybe is
more of a really a research oriented I
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read research, but not to the
extent that Todd does, which settings and
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personal time frames and things that come
into play and come into factor with that.
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But I wanted to find how I
can help the person the fastest and
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safest way possible, And he briefly
mentioned one of my game changers for my
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career was being introduced to PERT,
which is primal reflex release technique. It
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is a version of neuromuscular manual therapy. It's all science based, evidence based,
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but it's hands on approach and it
unlocked from me how amazing and how
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strong the nervous system was, and
it's basically it's unyielded and control over everything.
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So find little rabbit holes and pathways
that you just gravitate towards. And
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mine is neuro related. So I
have all of these different neurological approaches,
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neurodynamics, pri DNS hurt. And
what Todd didnety lead to elude to was
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not only have I gone with one
factor course, I've gone to two because
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as I learn new techniques, new
modalities. I also there's no shame in
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revisiting and making sure that you are
staying the course with what you're wanting to
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do. And what Factor really helped
me do was put all of these tools
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together so that I can have a
system for progression and with that that has
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been my game changer. And I'm
forever grateful for thanks. Roger. Oh
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absolutely, you deserve every bit of
it. Thank you, So go ahead,
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No, I appreciate you saying that
about Factor, and clearly I can
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take no credit for the education side
of things. Just I run the business
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piece, the clinical knowledge that is
imparted in each of the classes. The
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mad scientists, if you will,
behind the FACTOR rehab system are an amazing
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group of healthcare providers and sports chiropractors
that really kind of put that system together
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in such a way. And that's
what we try to encourage and really communicate
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both to providers that have been in
practice for many years or for students that
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are just trying to figure out still
what type of provider they want to be
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and what they want their patient treatment
to look like. We try to really
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emphasize that FACTOR is a true system
and it as you mentioned before, every
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just because you have nails doesn't mean
the hammer is always going to be the
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tool that you're going to use for
that that every patient is an individual and
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you need to have a variety of
different tools in your clinical tool belt that
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you can utilize is for the specific
patient that's in front of you at that
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time. But being able to do
a great assessment, being able to really
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zero in on specifically what's going on
with them and the best course of action
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to move forward with is critical.
Now. I know that many of you
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are that both of you have worked
with many athletes at the pro and the
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elite level talk to me a little
bit about how important it has been to
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have ap of assessment, to have
a really great grasp of being able to
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have a high level of clinical decision
making when it comes to treating these athletes
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with USA Gymnastics, with US racketball. How important is it that you can
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really think quickly on your feet and
then be able to have an assessment that
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you feel confident in when you go
into those treatment situations with these athletes at
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such a high level. Yeah,
I think that's a time based question,
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because early on, when you're a
newer practitioner or newly minted, assessment is
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your greatest resource because that's what gives
you the majority of the information you need
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to make decisions. And that's not
to disqualify that the older practitioners don't need
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to use assessment. But as you
gain experience, you start to recognize patterns
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and injuries. You know that the
way an athlete fell or the way that
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they got hit what you're likely looking
at. But as a newer practitioner,
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you may not be able to interpret
that real time information as quickly, and
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therefore the assessment component is absolutely vital. The data suggests that your assessment gives
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you about seventy to eighty percent of
the diagnostic criteria you need to make decisions.
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So I cannot overstate the importance of
that good assessment. And as you
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gain experience, and I know Roger
can absolutely speak to this, I've watched
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him do it. As you gain
experience, you start to expedite that process
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of decision making, but still have
a very pointed and directed assessment that doesn't
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necessarily take as much time because your
experience helps you recognize how that injury happens,
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so that you can do a much
more directed and individualized assessment. Assessment
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is key, And like Todd said, the exposure to different experiences, different
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injuries as they happen in real time, you develop an approach and you don't
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just discard anything. But you're listening
with your hand. You learn to the
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more you can assess, the more
you learn to trust your hands, your
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eyes, and your ears. So
what you listening with your hands, you're
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feeling something, but the athlete may
be saying something or not saying something.
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And then obviously what you're seeing,
you're seeing gas grimaces. And I like
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to tell a lot of clients.
I watch their eyes because, in my
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opinion, the eyes don't lie.
They will tell me when someone's trying to
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supplant light that didn't hurt that I'm
okay with that. Their eyes reflexibly won't
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They will not lie. So developing
a process for the assessment is critical and
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I can't express that enough well.
And it's interesting too thinking about the time
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frame that you all have to work
with these athletes when they're at an event,
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and how quickly you need to assess
and how quickly you need to zero
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in on what's going on. Do
you find that treating athletes at this level
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is very different than in your private
practice treating amateur athletes, And if so,
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how how are they different patients from
that aspect. Well, there's two
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different scenarios that we alluded to earlier. One is, if you're working in
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the field of play, you have
to make split second decisions. Now,
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for me, as a sports Cairo, I have only been in a few
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situations where I had to be the
one to make the call. Generally,
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in most situations because again that team
role, there's usually someone else that is
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superior to me from the pecking order
standpoint. That has to make that decision.
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That doesn't mean that I didn't necessarily
make the assessment, but somebody else
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has to make the decision. So
at the elite level, there's probably someone
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else, a medical doctor, a
doctor of osteopoti, someone that's going to
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make that overall decision to have that
athlete return to play. But again,
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it's a bit of a mixed bag
because you may be the one that is
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doing the assessment, but you have
to communicate clearly about what you found so
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that they can make their own assessment
and then make their own decision based upon
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that. So it's a little bit
different in every single situation, and that's
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just field of play. When it's
in your office, now you have more
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time to dissect what's actually going on. As Roger said, you get a
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chance to feel the athlete out a
little bit more. You can make some
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slower paced decisions. You can do
a better assessment that doesn't necessarily impact them
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right there on the spot as to
whether or not they're going to go in
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when your field of play. In
certain sports, if you pull that athlete,
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they can't go back in. So
there are a lot of decisions that
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do have to be made. Split
second, and again I think that comes
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with a lot of experience. And
yeah, so there's two different scenarios there.
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If it's field of play, it's
one set of rules and one set
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of scenarios. And then if it's
in your office, you may still end
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up pulling an athlete, but now
you have more time to look it over
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and to really kick out the details. Yes, the field of play is
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a kind of a snapshot. You
have to make sure that it's not an
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emergency, and you have to make
sure can they continue, can they perform
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from the activity or do they need
to be removed from the activity, And
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like Todd said, some at some
sports, once you remove them, they're
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done. There's no going back into
the activity. So you have to have
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at the beginning you have to know
is this a spine injury or is this
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You have to know your medical team
that at which you have surrounding you to
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know to learn about their strengths,
and like Todd said, the pecking work
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working with elite athletes in the field
of play or in the treatment room or
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the clinic setting. Oftentimes because they
travel so many different venues and different they're
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they're working with so many different clinicians
and such that sometimes you have maybe one
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or two chances with them or they
don't know you. So you have to
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be very unbiased. You have to
show empathy and emotion, but at the
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same time be very spot on with
your assessments and treatments and decision making with
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them, because sometimes with these the
elite level athletes, you make an unpopular
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decision and you lose some trust.
And what I'm saying, my unpopular decision
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is being ends up being say the
wrong decision in the sense. So you
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have to you better know your stuff. You have to know your assessment skills
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and be confident with it. And
if you don't, again, this is
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where humility comes in. If Todd
and I are working together and I'm like
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unsure of something, I'm like,
Todd, this is what I'm seeing,
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this is what I'm interpreting, this
is what I'm assessing. Can I get
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another set of eyes and ears on
this? And I'm telling compleachs will trust
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that and appreciate that more than you
can imagine as well, well, And
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that's key. I think that collaborative
care aspect, and I know, having
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known about Todd's experience both now working
with USA Gymnastics where you do have a
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strong clinical team that's supporting these athletes, and as he mentioned earlier, from
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every aspect, you have the clinicians
that are treating them from a physical health
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and performance aspect, you also have
mental health staff members that are helping to
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make sure that mentally and emotionally they're
in a great place for competition. But
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I know Todd, you've also had
experiences with other elite level athletes that just
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didn't have that circle of support.
Typically it's a funding issue, sometimes it's
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an infrastructure issue, depending upon the
specific organization that is managing the athletes.
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How important and how beneficial has it
been for the athletes that you've worked with
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that have that support team versus the
times where you've worked with athletes who did
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not have a strong clinical support system
that they could look to for care physically,
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mentally, and otherwise. I think
it comes down to how it extends
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that athletes ability to reach their i'll
call it their baseline level of performance and
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then improve performance beyond that. So
to speak to your question, the athletes
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that do get access, and by
access, that could be full access,
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meaning they're in residence at an Olympic
training center, or they have access because
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they have the means to pay for
private physical therapy, chiropractic athletics, or
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whatever the case may be. The
athletes that have access generally have the guidance
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to allow them to accelerate a bit
faster. The athletes that don't get access,
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again this is just my experience,
generally tend to kind of have to
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put it together themselves, which extends
the amount of time it takes for them
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to get back to baseline. There
are a couple of athletes, as you've
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mentioned, that I've worked with that, prior to working with me or I
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gain access to them, had to
rely a lot on the Internet, and
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usually that is just an absolute hole
to go down for information. They're trusting
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people that they don't know, giving
information on the Internet that may not be
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valid at all, or even if
it is valid, they don't know how
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to interpret the information to make it
applicable to themselves. A lot of times
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athletes that don't have access will go
to YouTube or Instagram or some influencer about
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specific exercises or treatment modalities that they
have found useful, and then they try
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to overlay that on their own injuries
and end up making themselves worse because they
398
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didn't know how to interpret that information. Maybe that modality wasn't at all what
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they needed and set themselves back,
or they tried to do an exercise that
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made them worse. So it's a
very hard thing to answer because the athletes
401
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that have access are definitely at an
advantage, and it's a very hard thing
402
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to sort out for the athletes that
don't have access because there's usually some mitigating
403
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circumstances. Many times it's financial as
to why they can't get that access.
404
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So I have really tried to make
it one of my goals and kind of
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my missions as a provider that even
if they don't have the financial resources that
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if I can provide some value to
them from a rehabilitation or performance standpoint,
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as long as they're willing to do
the work, I try to give that
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00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.159
information to them. So, but
there is definitely a disparity that goes back
409
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:54.800
to what we were talking about earlier
with access for athletes to field of play
410
00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:00.400
healthcare. It's just not there in
many places, and it's an absolute travesty.
411
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:05.920
As much as America and the world
loves their sports, it's just not
412
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.239
emphasized enough. The care that the
athletes need to perform. Yes, And
413
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:15.079
I would say that that carries over
into as you mentioned, hometown USA or
414
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:22.039
small town USA, where you may
have a team that just doesn't have access
415
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.480
to even an athletic trainer at their
local hospital system that could possibly come over
416
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.760
and assist them. That a lot
of times you end up having a coach
417
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.239
or a parent that runs out on
the field when someone gets injured and without
418
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.800
any type of clinical background, tries
to assess whether or not that player can
419
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:43.280
continue on Roger, I know that's
something that is also near and dear to
420
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.360
your heart, and that's something that
I've from my workings with in ATA,
421
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.960
I know that is a big mission
of that national organization as well as to
422
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.159
make sure that every athlete has access
to care. Have you also kind of
423
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:04.519
experienced that in your clinical practice in
that sometimes there are patients that come to
424
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:08.840
you and had they had care on
the field, had they had someone when
425
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:14.199
the injury first occurred, it could
have made a huge difference in how their
426
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:20.719
career progressed. Absolutely not even how
their career has progressed, but quite honestly,
427
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:28.639
had they had someone there that's qualified
to assess and evaluate and treat they
428
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.559
Honestly, they may not have had
to have come to see me. They
429
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:40.760
could continue, they could have continued
with activity, or their return would have
430
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:49.559
been much faster. We've I've seen
too many athletes that have they got detailed
431
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:57.880
and they tried to ut do so
forth and or better. Yet, here's
432
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.679
an example for you. They don't
don't have immediate care. So they go
433
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:07.239
in the next day or the following
day, and they go to an urgent
434
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.119
care and they get put into a
boot or an ankle sprain or whatever.
435
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:17.480
And based on what they tell me
in when they come to see me,
436
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:22.280
based on what they tell me in
my evaluation, and I'm working with them,
437
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.039
they don't need the boot. But
many times they get put in the
438
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:32.719
boot because they can't see someone day
in and day out. And it's not
439
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:39.360
I mean, it's not a neglect
on anyone's on and any healthcare providers plate
440
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:44.599
on their part. But they don't
need to be in a boot, and
441
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:49.519
we get them out of the boot
and they're able to return to activity much
442
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.800
faster. So there, I don't
have the answer to how this is.
443
00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:00.320
I'm still scratching my head after almost
thirty years in this profession as to why
444
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:10.639
schools and organizations there are still so
many that undervalue having the appropriate healthcare available
445
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:17.800
for these athletes. It's just I'm
just scratching my head with it. They'll
446
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:25.679
spend the thousands to new uniforms,
get them into travel two hours away,
447
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.760
but then it says healthcare and they're
like, uh, what would deal with
448
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.400
that if it happens. And then
there's the ones that I have my hats
449
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.320
off to them because they are progressive
with it. They are like, wait
450
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:42.599
a minute, if we're doing this, we're going to do this right and
451
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:46.679
we're going to make sure that our
athletes are taken care of and it's not
452
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:51.639
a after thought. So my hat's
off to them. I applaud them.
453
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.119
The other ones we got work to
do, absolutely, and that's incredible,
454
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.840
and I think that, as you
guys both mentioned, that can make all
455
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:06.480
of the difference when it comes to
progressing through your athletic career. And clearly
456
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.639
in your recent experience that both of
you had with working with USA Gymnastics,
457
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:15.480
you typically are dealing with athletes who
from a very early age have really had
458
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.719
a very strong connection with their body. They've had a strong connection with the
459
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.920
way that they move, the way
that they perform, because gymnastics is a
460
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.159
very precise sport in that way,
and typically to get to the levels that
461
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.760
these athletes are when you guys encounter
them, they've had a very long road
462
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:39.199
with support from parents, from trainers, from coaches, from sports medicine staff
463
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:44.880
in some way. I also know
that from what my understanding is of these
464
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.480
organizations that they're very protective of their
athletes, and they're very what's the best
465
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.880
way to say it, they're very
selective about who they invite into work with
466
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:59.360
athletes. They're very selective about who
they invite to the table from a sports
467
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.920
medicine stanf point Todd. You mentioned
earlier that a lot of the relationship with
468
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:09.840
USA Gymnastics was started by meeting one
of their sports med staff members at the
469
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.679
World Games and then kind of continuing
the conversations from there. Tell us a
470
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:22.840
little bit about how that opportunity came
about and then what it took to get
471
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.559
to the place where they invited you
to be a member of the sports med
472
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:30.239
team. I know that was not
something to where it was a one time
473
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:32.119
encounter. She met you said you
seem like a nice guy, and like,
474
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.599
you know what you're doing, come
on to our team. There was
475
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.639
certainly a journey to get there.
Tell our listeners a little bit about that.
476
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:42.679
Well, as you mentioned, it
started with World Games. I was
477
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:46.840
there as part of a sports chiropractic
delegation to treat any and all athletes that
478
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:52.119
were needing care. I know Roger
was there working with USA Racquetball, so
479
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.840
in a roundabout way, he and
I got to work together in that we
480
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.199
were both there providing sports medicine care. But yeah, I was a matter
481
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:07.480
of me kind of walking around during
a downtime trying to identify coaches or athletes
482
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.599
or even administrators that were associated with
teams to kind of let them know who
483
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.679
we were and where we were located, because we were unfortunately at the venue
484
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.480
I was at and placed in kind
of a hard to find area. So
485
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:24.639
I was walking around and happened to
bump into the medical coordinator for the USA
486
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:31.079
Gymnastics Trampoline and Tumbling and just struck
up a conversation and she brought one of
487
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:36.280
her athletes over again. It just
turned in kind of a longer term conversation
488
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:40.079
over the course of that couple of
days that she was there, but I
489
00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:45.199
offered myself as someone that would be
really interested in working with the athletes,
490
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:50.519
and as I said, a couple
of months later she called me back and
491
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.639
said, hey, you want to
come to a tryout if you will.
492
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:59.320
It really involved me coming out to
one of the team camps and seeing how
493
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.239
well I fit with them, and
I was able to gauge whether or not
494
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:05.360
it was a good fit for me, and I fell in love with it.
495
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:08.639
It was really a great experience.
But as you were mentioning it kind
496
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:12.079
of alluded to, it wasn't just
a one and done. I had to
497
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.280
go out and show my chops.
I had to work with the athletes.
498
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:20.400
I had to engage with the athletes. It is incredibly important that the athletes.
499
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:22.840
It sounds a little strange that the
athletes like you, because if they
500
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.679
don't like the person or people they're
the team that they're working with. From
501
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.159
a healthcare standpoint, they're not going
to engage you. They're not going to
502
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.800
use the service. So that's incredibly
important. That's part of the protective thing
503
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:39.119
that you were mentioning is it's a
try out for healthcare providers. In some
504
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:45.760
instances, you have to go volunteer
your time for two weeks at Olympic training
505
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:51.159
centers. I had to volunteer my
time at a couple of events in order
506
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.199
to show what I was capable of, but also for USAG in this instance,
507
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.320
to determine whether or not I was
going to be a good fit for
508
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:05.239
the athletes. Unfortunately, so far, I've demonstrated I'm capable of that and
509
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:10.280
have also been blessed with the opportunity
when asked to bring some of my other
510
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.039
friends and colleagues along with us,
and that's where Roger and I were again
511
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:20.840
able to reconnect on the field of
play to work with USA Gymnastics. And
512
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.079
again I want to really reinforce this
point here. I'm blessed to work with
513
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:30.440
them. I do not represent USA
Gymnastics in that form, so I don't
514
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.800
want to make it sound like I
am speaking on their behalf. I'm only
515
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:37.119
speaking for my experience with them well, and I think what was interesting that
516
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:44.159
you mentioned there was that after spending
time with them, after volunteering your time
517
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:49.159
at some of their events, then
that opened the door for an opportunity for
518
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.000
you to officially become a member of
the sports medicine team. And then they
519
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:58.679
look to you to recommend others.
So the importance of developing relationships with colleagues,
520
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.039
the importance of working well as a
member of a team, I know
521
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.920
is a huge component of professional growth
for sports practitioners. So when they were
522
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:14.760
asking you about other providers that you
may recommend or ones that might be beneficial
523
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:20.599
to bring to specific events, what
made you think of Roger? And I
524
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.920
know you've brought some other colleagues to
events as well, What were those big
525
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.519
determining factors for you about this is
someone I absolutely would recommend to bring into
526
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:34.400
this opportunity. It's always what they're
looking for at that time in what the
527
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.639
event requires. So the first one
that Roger and I were able to work
528
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.199
was last year at National Championships National
Gym Championships, in which I believe there
529
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:49.360
were about three thousand athletes that were
participating at that particular event, so we
530
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.920
needed all hands on deck. We
needed someone that could work in the athletic
531
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:59.559
training arena, so to speak.
But then when that wasn't needed, someone
532
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.880
else that can provide care to the
athletes in between their competitions. So Roger
533
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.920
was the easiest fit for me because
I knew that he was able to provide
534
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.559
both the rehabilitative side in between,
but then also work on the field of
535
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:17.159
play as an acute care provider.
So that was an easy choice. So
536
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:22.679
for me, it's always what that
particular event requires, and then I kind
537
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:27.519
of go into my rolodex so to
speak of people that I want to work
538
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.280
with, and I think that's an
incredibly important part there. If I want
539
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:31.159
to work with them, I think
they're going to be a good fit for
540
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:36.360
the team. And Roger, as
I've mentioned before, has always been a
541
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.679
good fit because he's easy to work
with. He understands what his job is
542
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.239
when he gets there and has no
complaints about it. He just sets himself
543
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.920
to work and you wind him up
and he's gone. That's incredible. And
544
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:52.400
Roger, I know that you've had
opportunities as well where you invited Todd in
545
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.239
to work the event with you,
such as the opportunity that you guys had
546
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.320
at the USA Racketball Open last year. Tell me a little bit about that
547
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:06.599
for you, Like when you've had
opportunities to have other colleagues come in and
548
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:12.079
work with teams that you are also
treating. What are some of those factors
549
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:16.280
that you look at to help you
make that decision knowing the person, the
550
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:23.320
clinicians, whether they're a good fit
with that particular group of the athletic population
551
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:30.840
in that sport that we're with the
US Open. That was both amateurs and
552
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:37.559
professionals that were participating in this event, and there was I want to say
553
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:45.559
close to not quite three thousand like
that, but it was four hundred athletes.
554
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:52.440
And I was the healthcare provider or
that, and I don't I'm not
555
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:59.800
a chiropractor, and I know that
that is an opportunity. Well, first,
556
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:04.760
the athletes are looking for something.
They're not always looking for massage or
557
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:13.880
re practic medicine, chiropractical care.
Sometimes it's these spinal adjustments. Majority of
558
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.199
them all right, let's face the
majority of them are looking spinal adjustments.
559
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:23.440
But I said, I've got the
person that is perfect for that that I
560
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:30.039
come in and provide so much more
than just a spinal adjustment. And it
561
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:38.599
was his knowledge with rehabilitation and the
dynamic tape and his ability to relate with
562
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:45.559
these high level athletes was critical for
me. I just knew that he knew
563
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:51.440
how to flow in and out of
his lane in an appropriate manner, and
564
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.000
I trusted him, and I knew
that he was going to take care of
565
00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:00.400
the athletes the way that I felt
like they needed to be and I didn't
566
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.760
even hesitate with it, and the
it was just a good fit with that.
567
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:12.400
I wanted to like touch on something
here though. My start was with
568
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:19.119
actually with USA Track and Field,
and I volunteered to do the Atlanta Marathon
569
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.920
and then I got the Then COVID
hit and I had the opportunity to go
570
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:29.199
out to the Track and Field Olympic
Trials and I worked that and then shortly
571
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:35.280
after that, USA Racketball was looking
for a dual credential and they they reached
572
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:39.880
out the USOPC reached out to someone
and they were like, we'll contact Roger,
573
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:46.239
and they contacted me and I my
first trip with USA Racketball was down
574
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:52.159
to Guatemala for the World Championships and
we won. We took home gold with
575
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:58.239
that. Shortly thereafter, they they
reached back out to me and they said,
576
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:06.039
we don't know exactly what you did, but every single athlete was like,
577
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.199
whenever we go on a trip again, we want Roger with us.
578
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:16.559
And that started my relationship with racquetball
and they trusted me in the athletes,
579
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:23.280
I said, transitioning into bringing Todd
into the US Open in USA racquetball.
580
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:29.360
When I said go to Todd,
let him work with you on this,
581
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:35.519
they didn't matter any They knew that
what I said then they could trust Todd.
582
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:39.280
So that was kind of like credibility. And then Todd just what his
583
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:49.199
actions and his professionalism spoke volumes for
himself and the rest is history. Hey
584
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:51.920
guys, if you like what you
heard today, I encourage you to visit
585
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:59.840
our website at Factor hyphenstore dot com
that's spelled fa k t r hyphenstore dot
586
00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.639
com to find out more information about
all that we have to offer. We
587
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.840
have a variety of online offerings as
well as our hands on Factor Rehab System
588
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:10.440
course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure to also check out our
589
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.039
event calendar and bookmark any of these
upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the
590
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:19.039
near future so you can join us
live. And of course, the biggest
591
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.199
compliment we can receive is for you
to help us spread the word to your
592
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:24.920
friends, colleagues, and classmates.
You'll find all the important links, as
593
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:28.960
well as info about our sponsors in
the show notes, so be sure to
594
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:29.679
check those out
1
00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:19.160
Yeah, I can imagine that when
you get to a certain level and everywhere
2
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:23.039
you go everyone recognizes you, and
sometimes you're even being mobbed by fans,
3
00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:27.120
that it's nice to have a moment
in time where you're just the person that
4
00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:31.960
you've always been and someone else recognizes
that. Someone else recognizes who you are
5
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:36.640
as a person, not just your
title or your status. And I'm sure
6
00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:41.359
that probably carries over to into the
elite level athletes that you guys get to
7
00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:47.960
work with, both through USA Gymnastics
USA Racketball. People always wonder, and
8
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:52.880
that when I say people, I
primarily mean healthcare providers that are still early
9
00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:58.119
on in their careers, those that
are students that look to professionals like you
10
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.560
guys, and they say, wow, I would love to do that one
11
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:06.319
day. I bet he just knew
somebody that knew somebody, or maybe he
12
00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.640
was there at the right place at
the right time. But those of us
13
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.840
that know you well and those of
us that have heard more about your journey
14
00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:17.560
understand that it's not as if it
just fell out of the sky and into
15
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:22.120
your lap. There was a lot
of work that went into getting to a
16
00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:26.760
place in your career where you could
be considered for opportunities like this. I'd
17
00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.359
love to hear from you guys a
little bit about what that looks like early
18
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:36.879
on in that career as a sports
practitioner. How many times were you having
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to possibly volunteer your services or check
your ego at the door and realize that
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you had a lot to learn from
some other providers you were working with.
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What was the moment I note Roger
you mentioned you had a few moments where
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you were served a little bit of
humble pie and did really have to kind
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of have that ego check. So
I'd love, especially for our listeners that
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are still early on in their journey, to hear from both of you some
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of the background of how you really
were able to start opening doors to these
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opportunities and what that looks like.
That it wasn't an overnight success. This
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wasn't something that you guys received a
phone call one day out of the blue,
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one year in practice and you were
like, oh, great, I'm
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the guy. How did this all
evolve? So for me, a lot
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of it was some personal growth,
battling with a what I would say like
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a little bit of an imposter syndrome. I always was reactive because I was
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not confident in my skills, so
I put on this where I was I
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was. I put home like I
was better than what I was, and
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through different interactions with people who who
actually knew what was going on, that's
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where my humility was put into play. And I tell you, once I
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became humble, there's a difference between
being arrogant and confident. I was humbled
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because I was not confident. So
I was portraying myself maybe a little bit
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more on the arrogant side of trying
to hide my deficiencies. Now I accept
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my deficiencies and go, let's learn
about this. Let's let's be the best
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me that I can be. And
I take it one day at a time.
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But for me as far as my
journey, once I developed that and
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knew that that's something I had to
work on my I knew that I wanted
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to work with the elite athletes,
and people were like other practitioners, you
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should look into this, X,
Y, and Z, and I looked
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into it, and then I just
I came in with open eyes, open
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ears and just wanted to work as
a team and just let my body of
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work speak for itself. And that's
again that's what I do is just I
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usually am over humble, I guess
because I don't always talk about myself or
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rag about myself or anything like that
anymore. I just do my whatever's in
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front of me, whether it's folding
a towel, stretching a hamstring, massaging
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a foot, to just sometimes listening. That's that's how I practice. And
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people practitioners, athletes, administrators,
they see that and they're like, that's
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someone that we want on our team. They're confident, silent confidence. But
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for me, I went into I
applied and I'm not afraid to volunteer,
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volunteer my time. There is at
some point you have to present a value
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in yourself of like we've been volunteering
doing these things. There needs to be
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some type of maybe financial discussion and
such, but volunteerism is what is he
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with some of these organizations that I've
been involved with and I'm working with,
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the Olympic Movement has been something.
I mean, how greater is that Being
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able to work with elite athletes from
other countries, your country in the United
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States as well as the other countries, and just seeing them success and be
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successful. It's an amazing heartfelt experience
for me, and I know that Todd
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has a very unique and I love
his story as well. I'll get in
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my story a minute, but I
want to reinforce something that Rogers said there,
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and I'll kind of interpret it in
the way that I heard it is
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Roger's a team player and he knows
his space within the team. I know
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my space within the team. And
because we know each other in that way,
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we have no problem recommending each other
when an opportunity comes up for us
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to serve on a team. Last
year, Roger asked me to work with
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him at a tournament for USA Racquetball
because he knows what my lane is.
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He knows I'll stay in my lane
and we can work together well. And
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when I have opportunities to get Roger
involved in things such as with USAG because
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I know who he is and I
know he's willing to serve, and like
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he said, if there's something in
front of him, he'll pick it up
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and do it. There's no talk
about what am I going to get out
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of this. It's just he puts
his nose to the grindstone and he gets
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to work. So I think that's
an incredibly important lesson for people that are
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looking to get into This is one
the volunteerism that Roger talked about. We
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don't get paid for some of this
stuff when I first got started, and
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I know Roger was the same way. We don't get paid for the work
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that we do field of play in
some instances, the number of marathons I
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worked, the bicycle events that I
worked, didn't get paid for those.
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It was just accumulating experience and letting
people see that I do know what I'm
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talking about, that I am different
with my skill set and trying to get
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people to understand what I'm bringing to
the table. But yeah, I wanted
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to reinforce that part. As far
as my portion of the story goes,
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it's a little bit circuitous. When
I went into college, my full intention
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was to be a physical therapist because
of the time that I had spent in
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and out of physical therapy. I
discussed my brief time with working with an
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athletic trainer for my injury, but
there are plenty of other injuries that I
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had to work through with both ats
and pts. So my intention was to
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go into physical therapy because I wanted
to go into private practice afterwards and found
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out pretty quickly when I got to
Toledo that you can't do football and physical
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therapy at the same time. So
I elected to go the kinesio therapy route
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because it was still in trenched in
rehabilitation, and I'm glad I did it.
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I got a good background in rehabilitation, in a bit in diagnosis,
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also in assessment and testing, so
I laid a bit of a foundation there
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that eventually transitioned me into owning my
Sports Performance JIM in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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And this is where I get to
have a little bit of fun because
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I was able to pull in some
of my old Toledo friends and resources.
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So that was kind of my foray
into elite level sports. When I opened
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up my gym in North Carolina,
one of my former high school and college
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teammates, Brot Kreutzberg, was on
the hunt for an NFL career and then
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quickly transitioned into elite level. Bob's
led for Team USA, ending up in
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a couple of Olympics, which I
was able to participate with him in.
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At that time, another friend of
ours came down and trained. He's a
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very accomplished CFL athlete, Mace Freeman. Roger, I know, you know
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all these names. They came down
and we're training with me there, so
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they were kind of my first foray
into elite level training for athletes. Got
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to work with several NFL athletes,
so it kind of allowed me, as
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Rogers said, to cut my teeth
in that place to learn the strength and
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conditioning and the training side of it. And then I realized that I wanted
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to add a bit more back into
that gym by adding a sports medicine component
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to that. So that led me
into chiropractic school. But very long story
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shorts. My time with Brock when
he made it to the Olympics gave me
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a lot of invaluable experience that served
me after I got out of chiropractic school.
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And it's kind of strange that a
couple of guys from Flat Ohio were
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working on getting him to slide faster
down an icy mountain, which we were
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totally unfamiliar with. But that turned
into something great when I got to Texas
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Chiropractic College and one of the students
there doctor she's now a chiropractor, doctor,
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Sean Adagun. She was the pilot
for the Nigerian Bob sled team,
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of which I was able to attend
the twenty eighteen Games with and also met
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mister Anthony Watson, who was the
first Jamaican skeleton athlete to compete at the
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Olympics as well. So I've right
place, right time, And I think
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that's the point I'm trying to make
here is like you said, Jess,
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it didn't fall into my lap.
I had to work for the opportunities and
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also be in the right place.
I was fortunate enough to work with Roger
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at the World Games last year,
where I met Tarn Moore, who was
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the medical director for USAG, and
she graciously brought an athlete or to over
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to me and networked with her and
said, hey, look, if you
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ever need anything, I would love
to participate in any way that I can
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with USAG and got a phone call
a couple of months later. So it
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literally is about putting your time in, doing the work and networking with people
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to show one who you are,
but also to show your value. So
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I think it's incredibly important for the
people that are listening to this that just
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because you have the degree, just
because you have the knowledge, doesn't necessarily
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mean that people are going to come
to you, you've got to put that
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stuff out there and make yourself available
for free work, to volunteer, but
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also to be willing to have conversations
about what you provide. So that was
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kind of a long winded answer there, but yeah, that's my story.
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Well, and it's interesting. In
the business trainings that I do, we
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always talk about this principle and I
heard this phrase once and I love talking
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about it. It's the learn it
or earn it principle, right, So
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you have the learned component, where
you use education, whether that's through degrees,
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certification, continuing education to learn new
skills and improve professionally. But then
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you also have the earn it component, right, which is where you do
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the time, you do the work, you gain the experience. And this
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translates across professions, across healthcare specifically
in a huge way because the care that
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you provide has to involve both of
those components in order for you to continue
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progressing professionally. If we were to
look at a pie chart, and I'm
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going to ask this for each of
you to answer, If you were looking
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at a pie chart and you could, from a thirty thousand foot perspective,
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give a percentage in terms of what
percentage is your earn it and what percentage
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is your learn it that you've utilized
to get to the level that you currently
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have achieved professionally. So are you
an eighty percent earn it, twenty percent
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learn it or sixty forty fifty to
fifty. What would you say has been
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kind of your spread from the learned
side and the earn it side as you've
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progressed through your career. That is
such a tough question because we're making the
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assumption that those two are mutually exclusive. And I'll use this example. I
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think you have to have the foundational
learn it part where you demonstrate that you
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have a proficiency that allows you to
at least be in the room right.
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But then there's the earn it part. So I'll say, let me call
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it twenty percent learn it, even
though it probably is higher, because I
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want to give the value to the
earn it parts. When I'm out and
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earning it, I'm still learning.
So this last competition that I was able
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to work with both Roger and France
and then carry over to England for World
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Championships, I learned so much working
with Roger and another one of the athletic
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trainers that was there, and then
popping over to England to work with one
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of our medical doctors, a doctor
of osteopathy, as well as one of
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our mental health specialists and another ATPT. Actually had two AT's there. So
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the reason I'm kind of saying I
can't give a direct distribution is because I'm
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still learning while I'm earning. But
you have to have that foundational level of
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learning to be in the room so
that you can continue that education. Again,
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I tell my pagent or my students
this all the time. They think
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that once they get out of out
of school at a chiropractic school that their
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education is over, and I say, oh, contraire, that's where it
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begins. Your education begins, because
now you've got to get out there and
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learn while you earn. That's a
great that's a great point there, Roger,
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would you agree. I don't know
how to follow up with that,
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because Todd, that's he nailed it. I mean, you have that foundation.
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Let me reiterate, you have a
foundation to get your foot in the
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door. But then you've got to
keep your You got to keep your foot
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in the door. You've got to
be able to earn your way to stay
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in the room if you will,
and if you never stop learning. I
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mean, you never stop learning.
There's always something to be learned. Every
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opportunity, every exposure, every experience, every conversation, you're learning. And
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the way you I think maybe you
interpret that learning opportunity is the way you
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also helps earn your place at the
table or stay at the room. Yeah,
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so it's very hard to say eighty
twenty or whatever. There's phases.
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Initial, you got to learn it, and then you get a midway from
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there, you're learning it all the
way through. So yeah, great job,
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Todd, great explanation. Yeah,
I would agree with that too,
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And I've heard that from several practitioners
I've spoken with over the years. It's
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really hard to separate the learn and
the earn, especially as you continue to
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progress throughout your career. How important
is it for both of you to continue
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on the education side and to continue
taking courses, investing in yourself and in
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your clinical skills professionally in that way, and how beneficial has that been in
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helping you treat athletes better and improving
your clinical skill sets so that not only
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are you out there doing the work, but then you're also bringing something new
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to the table at each event,
that you're continuing to focus on, as
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Todd you mentioned earlier, really looking
at the research and what's coming out now,
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but then also taking courses, getting
certifications like Progressing, and taking that
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time to prioritize your education so that
when you do come back to treat athletes
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again, that when you do have
that next event, you're coming to the
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table with a continual focus on being
innovative with the treatments that you're providing.
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Oh, for me, that's an
easy one. And this is where I
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got to give Roger some credit because
that's kind of how he and I reconnected
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after college. So I graduated in
nineteen ninety eight, which seems like centuries
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ago probably for some people that are
listening. And Roger, I think you
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were ninety six if I remember correctly. Yes, yes, But Roger and
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I stayed in contact afterwards for a
long time. But he came to learn
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from me at one of our Factor
courses in Atlanta in twenty fifteen. So
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one, it speaks to the importance
of continuing education, but also back to
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what Roger was saying, his humility
in allowing somebody that's younger than him.
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He had far more experience than me
in training rooms, so to speak,
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but it demonstrates his willingness to learn
and want to learn something unique, and
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I was eternally grateful that he felt
like I had something that he could learn
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from me. But yeah, I
think it's incredibly important. That's why I
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placed such a high emphasis on continuing
education. That's also why I decided to
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work within chiropractic education and actually teach
at a chiropractic school. I think that
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the learning part is so incredibly important, and personally, I'm incredibly grateful that
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Texas Chiropractic College allows me to travel
the way I do so that I can
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go gain that learning experience while I'm
earning to kind of round that back out
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so I can pass that on to
the next generation of providers. So I
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think it is important to continue our
education. There's a couple of things that
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Roger's getting into. I hopefully he'll
talk about his reflex technique that he likes
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to use. But yeah, I'm
constantly on the hunt for the I don't
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want to say the shiny thing because
I think those are fads, but the
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evidence based, guideline approved treatments that
we can use to help improve the performance
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of athletes. So I'm forever looking
for ways to improve myself so that I
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can improve both the education of my
athletes, but also the education of the
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students that I work with too.
For me, I just I want to
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be the best version of me and
provide the best care that I possibly can
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for the person that's in front of
me. And one of my I think
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it was Theodore Roosevelt. People don't
care how much you know until they know
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how much you care. But knowledge
is power, and just because you have
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a hammer, not everything's a nail. I know that's a lot of analogies,
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but staying on the cutting edge and
trying to stay abreast of what's going
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on, I think Todd maybe is
more of a really a research oriented I
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read research, but not to the
extent that Todd does, which settings and
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personal time frames and things that come
into play and come into factor with that.
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But I wanted to find how I
can help the person the fastest and
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safest way possible, And he briefly
mentioned one of my game changers for my
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career was being introduced to PERT,
which is primal reflex release technique. It
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is a version of neuromuscular manual therapy. It's all science based, evidence based,
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but it's hands on approach and it
unlocked from me how amazing and how
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strong the nervous system was, and
it's basically it's unyielded and control over everything.
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So find little rabbit holes and pathways
that you just gravitate towards. And
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mine is neuro related. So I
have all of these different neurological approaches,
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neurodynamics, pri DNS hurt. And
what Todd didnety lead to elude to was
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not only have I gone with one
factor course, I've gone to two because
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as I learn new techniques, new
modalities. I also there's no shame in
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revisiting and making sure that you are
staying the course with what you're wanting to
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do. And what Factor really helped
me do was put all of these tools
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together so that I can have a
system for progression and with that that has
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been my game changer. And I'm
forever grateful for thanks. Roger. Oh
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absolutely, you deserve every bit of
it. Thank you, So go ahead,
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No, I appreciate you saying that
about Factor, and clearly I can
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take no credit for the education side
of things. Just I run the business
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piece, the clinical knowledge that is
imparted in each of the classes. The
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mad scientists, if you will,
behind the FACTOR rehab system are an amazing
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group of healthcare providers and sports chiropractors
that really kind of put that system together
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in such a way. And that's
what we try to encourage and really communicate
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both to providers that have been in
practice for many years or for students that
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are just trying to figure out still
what type of provider they want to be
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and what they want their patient treatment
to look like. We try to really
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emphasize that FACTOR is a true system
and it as you mentioned before, every
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just because you have nails doesn't mean
the hammer is always going to be the
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tool that you're going to use for
that that every patient is an individual and
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you need to have a variety of
different tools in your clinical tool belt that
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you can utilize is for the specific
patient that's in front of you at that
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time. But being able to do
a great assessment, being able to really
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zero in on specifically what's going on
with them and the best course of action
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to move forward with is critical.
Now. I know that many of you
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are that both of you have worked
with many athletes at the pro and the
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elite level talk to me a little
bit about how important it has been to
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have ap of assessment, to have
a really great grasp of being able to
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have a high level of clinical decision
making when it comes to treating these athletes
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with USA Gymnastics, with US racketball. How important is it that you can
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really think quickly on your feet and
then be able to have an assessment that
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you feel confident in when you go
into those treatment situations with these athletes at
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such a high level. Yeah,
I think that's a time based question,
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because early on, when you're a
newer practitioner or newly minted, assessment is
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your greatest resource because that's what gives
you the majority of the information you need
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to make decisions. And that's not
to disqualify that the older practitioners don't need
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to use assessment. But as you
gain experience, you start to recognize patterns
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and injuries. You know that the
way an athlete fell or the way that
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they got hit what you're likely looking
at. But as a newer practitioner,
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you may not be able to interpret
that real time information as quickly, and
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therefore the assessment component is absolutely vital. The data suggests that your assessment gives
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you about seventy to eighty percent of
the diagnostic criteria you need to make decisions.
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So I cannot overstate the importance of
that good assessment. And as you
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gain experience, and I know Roger
can absolutely speak to this, I've watched
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him do it. As you gain
experience, you start to expedite that process
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of decision making, but still have
a very pointed and directed assessment that doesn't
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necessarily take as much time because your
experience helps you recognize how that injury happens,
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so that you can do a much
more directed and individualized assessment. Assessment
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is key, And like Todd said, the exposure to different experiences, different
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injuries as they happen in real time, you develop an approach and you don't
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just discard anything. But you're listening
with your hand. You learn to the
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more you can assess, the more
you learn to trust your hands, your
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eyes, and your ears. So
what you listening with your hands, you're
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feeling something, but the athlete may
be saying something or not saying something.
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And then obviously what you're seeing,
you're seeing gas grimaces. And I like
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to tell a lot of clients.
I watch their eyes because, in my
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opinion, the eyes don't lie.
They will tell me when someone's trying to
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supplant light that didn't hurt that I'm
okay with that. Their eyes reflexibly won't
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They will not lie. So developing
a process for the assessment is critical and
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I can't express that enough well.
And it's interesting too thinking about the time
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frame that you all have to work
with these athletes when they're at an event,
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and how quickly you need to assess
and how quickly you need to zero
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in on what's going on. Do
you find that treating athletes at this level
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is very different than in your private
practice treating amateur athletes, And if so,
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how how are they different patients from
that aspect. Well, there's two
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different scenarios that we alluded to earlier. One is, if you're working in
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the field of play, you have
to make split second decisions. Now,
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for me, as a sports Cairo, I have only been in a few
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situations where I had to be the
one to make the call. Generally,
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in most situations because again that team
role, there's usually someone else that is
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superior to me from the pecking order
standpoint. That has to make that decision.
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That doesn't mean that I didn't necessarily
make the assessment, but somebody else
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has to make the decision. So
at the elite level, there's probably someone
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else, a medical doctor, a
doctor of osteopoti, someone that's going to
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make that overall decision to have that
athlete return to play. But again,
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it's a bit of a mixed bag
because you may be the one that is
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doing the assessment, but you have
to communicate clearly about what you found so
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that they can make their own assessment
and then make their own decision based upon
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that. So it's a little bit
different in every single situation, and that's
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just field of play. When it's
in your office, now you have more
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time to dissect what's actually going on. As Roger said, you get a
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chance to feel the athlete out a
little bit more. You can make some
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slower paced decisions. You can do
a better assessment that doesn't necessarily impact them
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right there on the spot as to
whether or not they're going to go in
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when your field of play. In
certain sports, if you pull that athlete,
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they can't go back in. So
there are a lot of decisions that
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do have to be made. Split
second, and again I think that comes
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with a lot of experience. And
yeah, so there's two different scenarios there.
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If it's field of play, it's
one set of rules and one set
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of scenarios. And then if it's
in your office, you may still end
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up pulling an athlete, but now
you have more time to look it over
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and to really kick out the details. Yes, the field of play is
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a kind of a snapshot. You
have to make sure that it's not an
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emergency, and you have to make
sure can they continue, can they perform
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from the activity or do they need
to be removed from the activity, And
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like Todd said, some at some
sports, once you remove them, they're
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done. There's no going back into
the activity. So you have to have
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at the beginning you have to know
is this a spine injury or is this
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You have to know your medical team
that at which you have surrounding you to
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know to learn about their strengths,
and like Todd said, the pecking work
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working with elite athletes in the field
of play or in the treatment room or
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the clinic setting. Oftentimes because they
travel so many different venues and different they're
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they're working with so many different clinicians
and such that sometimes you have maybe one
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or two chances with them or they
don't know you. So you have to
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be very unbiased. You have to
show empathy and emotion, but at the
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same time be very spot on with
your assessments and treatments and decision making with
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them, because sometimes with these the
elite level athletes, you make an unpopular
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decision and you lose some trust.
And what I'm saying, my unpopular decision
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is being ends up being say the
wrong decision in the sense. So you
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have to you better know your stuff. You have to know your assessment skills
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and be confident with it. And
if you don't, again, this is
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where humility comes in. If Todd
and I are working together and I'm like
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unsure of something, I'm like,
Todd, this is what I'm seeing,
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this is what I'm interpreting, this
is what I'm assessing. Can I get
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another set of eyes and ears on
this? And I'm telling compleachs will trust
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that and appreciate that more than you
can imagine as well, well, And
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that's key. I think that collaborative
care aspect, and I know, having
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known about Todd's experience both now working
with USA Gymnastics where you do have a
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strong clinical team that's supporting these athletes, and as he mentioned earlier, from
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every aspect, you have the clinicians
that are treating them from a physical health
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and performance aspect, you also have
mental health staff members that are helping to
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make sure that mentally and emotionally they're
in a great place for competition. But
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I know Todd, you've also had
experiences with other elite level athletes that just
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didn't have that circle of support.
Typically it's a funding issue, sometimes it's
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an infrastructure issue, depending upon the
specific organization that is managing the athletes.
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How important and how beneficial has it
been for the athletes that you've worked with
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that have that support team versus the
times where you've worked with athletes who did
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not have a strong clinical support system
that they could look to for care physically,
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mentally, and otherwise. I think
it comes down to how it extends
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that athletes ability to reach their i'll
call it their baseline level of performance and
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then improve performance beyond that. So
to speak to your question, the athletes
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that do get access, and by
access, that could be full access,
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meaning they're in residence at an Olympic
training center, or they have access because
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they have the means to pay for
private physical therapy, chiropractic athletics, or
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whatever the case may be. The
athletes that have access generally have the guidance
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to allow them to accelerate a bit
faster. The athletes that don't get access,
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again this is just my experience,
generally tend to kind of have to
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put it together themselves, which extends
the amount of time it takes for them
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to get back to baseline. There
are a couple of athletes, as you've
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mentioned, that I've worked with that, prior to working with me or I
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gain access to them, had to
rely a lot on the Internet, and
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usually that is just an absolute hole
to go down for information. They're trusting
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people that they don't know, giving
information on the Internet that may not be
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valid at all, or even if
it is valid, they don't know how
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to interpret the information to make it
applicable to themselves. A lot of times
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athletes that don't have access will go
to YouTube or Instagram or some influencer about
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specific exercises or treatment modalities that they
have found useful, and then they try
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to overlay that on their own injuries
and end up making themselves worse because they
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didn't know how to interpret that information. Maybe that modality wasn't at all what
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they needed and set themselves back,
or they tried to do an exercise that
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made them worse. So it's a
very hard thing to answer because the athletes
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that have access are definitely at an
advantage, and it's a very hard thing
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to sort out for the athletes that
don't have access because there's usually some mitigating
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circumstances. Many times it's financial as
to why they can't get that access.
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So I have really tried to make
it one of my goals and kind of
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my missions as a provider that even
if they don't have the financial resources that
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if I can provide some value to
them from a rehabilitation or performance standpoint,
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as long as they're willing to do
the work, I try to give that
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information to them. So, but
there is definitely a disparity that goes back
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to what we were talking about earlier
with access for athletes to field of play
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healthcare. It's just not there in
many places, and it's an absolute travesty.
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As much as America and the world
loves their sports, it's just not
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emphasized enough. The care that the
athletes need to perform. Yes, And
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I would say that that carries over
into as you mentioned, hometown USA or
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small town USA, where you may
have a team that just doesn't have access
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to even an athletic trainer at their
local hospital system that could possibly come over
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and assist them. That a lot
of times you end up having a coach
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or a parent that runs out on
the field when someone gets injured and without
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any type of clinical background, tries
to assess whether or not that player can
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continue on Roger, I know that's
something that is also near and dear to
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your heart, and that's something that
I've from my workings with in ATA,
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I know that is a big mission
of that national organization as well as to
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make sure that every athlete has access
to care. Have you also kind of
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experienced that in your clinical practice in
that sometimes there are patients that come to
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you and had they had care on
the field, had they had someone when
425
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:14.199
the injury first occurred, it could
have made a huge difference in how their
426
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:20.719
career progressed. Absolutely not even how
their career has progressed, but quite honestly,
427
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:28.639
had they had someone there that's qualified
to assess and evaluate and treat they
428
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.559
Honestly, they may not have had
to have come to see me. They
429
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:40.760
could continue, they could have continued
with activity, or their return would have
430
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:49.559
been much faster. We've I've seen
too many athletes that have they got detailed
431
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:57.880
and they tried to ut do so
forth and or better. Yet, here's
432
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.679
an example for you. They don't
don't have immediate care. So they go
433
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:07.239
in the next day or the following
day, and they go to an urgent
434
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.119
care and they get put into a
boot or an ankle sprain or whatever.
435
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:17.480
And based on what they tell me
in when they come to see me,
436
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:22.280
based on what they tell me in
my evaluation, and I'm working with them,
437
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.039
they don't need the boot. But
many times they get put in the
438
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:32.719
boot because they can't see someone day
in and day out. And it's not
439
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:39.360
I mean, it's not a neglect
on anyone's on and any healthcare providers plate
440
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:44.599
on their part. But they don't
need to be in a boot, and
441
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:49.519
we get them out of the boot
and they're able to return to activity much
442
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.800
faster. So there, I don't
have the answer to how this is.
443
00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:00.320
I'm still scratching my head after almost
thirty years in this profession as to why
444
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:10.639
schools and organizations there are still so
many that undervalue having the appropriate healthcare available
445
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:17.800
for these athletes. It's just I'm
just scratching my head with it. They'll
446
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:25.679
spend the thousands to new uniforms,
get them into travel two hours away,
447
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.760
but then it says healthcare and they're
like, uh, what would deal with
448
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.400
that if it happens. And then
there's the ones that I have my hats
449
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.320
off to them because they are progressive
with it. They are like, wait
450
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:42.599
a minute, if we're doing this, we're going to do this right and
451
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:46.679
we're going to make sure that our
athletes are taken care of and it's not
452
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:51.639
a after thought. So my hat's
off to them. I applaud them.
453
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.119
The other ones we got work to
do, absolutely, and that's incredible,
454
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.840
and I think that, as you
guys both mentioned, that can make all
455
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:06.480
of the difference when it comes to
progressing through your athletic career. And clearly
456
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.639
in your recent experience that both of
you had with working with USA Gymnastics,
457
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:15.480
you typically are dealing with athletes who
from a very early age have really had
458
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.719
a very strong connection with their body. They've had a strong connection with the
459
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.920
way that they move, the way
that they perform, because gymnastics is a
460
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.159
very precise sport in that way,
and typically to get to the levels that
461
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.760
these athletes are when you guys encounter
them, they've had a very long road
462
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:39.199
with support from parents, from trainers, from coaches, from sports medicine staff
463
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:44.880
in some way. I also know
that from what my understanding is of these
464
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.480
organizations that they're very protective of their
athletes, and they're very what's the best
465
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.880
way to say it, they're very
selective about who they invite into work with
466
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:59.360
athletes. They're very selective about who
they invite to the table from a sports
467
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.920
medicine stanf point Todd. You mentioned
earlier that a lot of the relationship with
468
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:09.840
USA Gymnastics was started by meeting one
of their sports med staff members at the
469
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.679
World Games and then kind of continuing
the conversations from there. Tell us a
470
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:22.840
little bit about how that opportunity came
about and then what it took to get
471
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.559
to the place where they invited you
to be a member of the sports med
472
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:30.239
team. I know that was not
something to where it was a one time
473
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:32.119
encounter. She met you said you
seem like a nice guy, and like,
474
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.599
you know what you're doing, come
on to our team. There was
475
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.639
certainly a journey to get there.
Tell our listeners a little bit about that.
476
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:42.679
Well, as you mentioned, it
started with World Games. I was
477
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:46.840
there as part of a sports chiropractic
delegation to treat any and all athletes that
478
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:52.119
were needing care. I know Roger
was there working with USA Racquetball, so
479
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.840
in a roundabout way, he and
I got to work together in that we
480
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.199
were both there providing sports medicine care. But yeah, I was a matter
481
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:07.480
of me kind of walking around during
a downtime trying to identify coaches or athletes
482
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.599
or even administrators that were associated with
teams to kind of let them know who
483
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.679
we were and where we were located, because we were unfortunately at the venue
484
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.480
I was at and placed in kind
of a hard to find area. So
485
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:24.639
I was walking around and happened to
bump into the medical coordinator for the USA
486
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:31.079
Gymnastics Trampoline and Tumbling and just struck
up a conversation and she brought one of
487
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:36.280
her athletes over again. It just
turned in kind of a longer term conversation
488
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:40.079
over the course of that couple of
days that she was there, but I
489
00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:45.199
offered myself as someone that would be
really interested in working with the athletes,
490
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:50.519
and as I said, a couple
of months later she called me back and
491
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.639
said, hey, you want to
come to a tryout if you will.
492
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:59.320
It really involved me coming out to
one of the team camps and seeing how
493
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.239
well I fit with them, and
I was able to gauge whether or not
494
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:05.360
it was a good fit for me, and I fell in love with it.
495
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:08.639
It was really a great experience.
But as you were mentioning it kind
496
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:12.079
of alluded to, it wasn't just
a one and done. I had to
497
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.280
go out and show my chops.
I had to work with the athletes.
498
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:20.400
I had to engage with the athletes. It is incredibly important that the athletes.
499
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:22.840
It sounds a little strange that the
athletes like you, because if they
500
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.679
don't like the person or people they're
the team that they're working with. From
501
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.159
a healthcare standpoint, they're not going
to engage you. They're not going to
502
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.800
use the service. So that's incredibly
important. That's part of the protective thing
503
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:39.119
that you were mentioning is it's a
try out for healthcare providers. In some
504
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:45.760
instances, you have to go volunteer
your time for two weeks at Olympic training
505
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:51.159
centers. I had to volunteer my
time at a couple of events in order
506
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.199
to show what I was capable of, but also for USAG in this instance,
507
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.320
to determine whether or not I was
going to be a good fit for
508
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:05.239
the athletes. Unfortunately, so far, I've demonstrated I'm capable of that and
509
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:10.280
have also been blessed with the opportunity
when asked to bring some of my other
510
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.039
friends and colleagues along with us,
and that's where Roger and I were again
511
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:20.840
able to reconnect on the field of
play to work with USA Gymnastics. And
512
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.079
again I want to really reinforce this
point here. I'm blessed to work with
513
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:30.440
them. I do not represent USA
Gymnastics in that form, so I don't
514
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.800
want to make it sound like I
am speaking on their behalf. I'm only
515
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:37.119
speaking for my experience with them well, and I think what was interesting that
516
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:44.159
you mentioned there was that after spending
time with them, after volunteering your time
517
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:49.159
at some of their events, then
that opened the door for an opportunity for
518
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.000
you to officially become a member of
the sports medicine team. And then they
519
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:58.679
look to you to recommend others.
So the importance of developing relationships with colleagues,
520
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.039
the importance of working well as a
member of a team, I know
521
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.920
is a huge component of professional growth
for sports practitioners. So when they were
522
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:14.760
asking you about other providers that you
may recommend or ones that might be beneficial
523
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:20.599
to bring to specific events, what
made you think of Roger? And I
524
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.920
know you've brought some other colleagues to
events as well, What were those big
525
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.519
determining factors for you about this is
someone I absolutely would recommend to bring into
526
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:34.400
this opportunity. It's always what they're
looking for at that time in what the
527
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.639
event requires. So the first one
that Roger and I were able to work
528
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.199
was last year at National Championships National
Gym Championships, in which I believe there
529
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:49.360
were about three thousand athletes that were
participating at that particular event, so we
530
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.920
needed all hands on deck. We
needed someone that could work in the athletic
531
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:59.559
training arena, so to speak.
But then when that wasn't needed, someone
532
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.880
else that can provide care to the
athletes in between their competitions. So Roger
533
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.920
was the easiest fit for me because
I knew that he was able to provide
534
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.559
both the rehabilitative side in between,
but then also work on the field of
535
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:17.159
play as an acute care provider.
So that was an easy choice. So
536
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:22.679
for me, it's always what that
particular event requires, and then I kind
537
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:27.519
of go into my rolodex so to
speak of people that I want to work
538
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.280
with, and I think that's an
incredibly important part there. If I want
539
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:31.159
to work with them, I think
they're going to be a good fit for
540
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:36.360
the team. And Roger, as
I've mentioned before, has always been a
541
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.679
good fit because he's easy to work
with. He understands what his job is
542
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.239
when he gets there and has no
complaints about it. He just sets himself
543
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.920
to work and you wind him up
and he's gone. That's incredible. And
544
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:52.400
Roger, I know that you've had
opportunities as well where you invited Todd in
545
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.239
to work the event with you,
such as the opportunity that you guys had
546
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.320
at the USA Racketball Open last year. Tell me a little bit about that
547
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:06.599
for you, Like when you've had
opportunities to have other colleagues come in and
548
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:12.079
work with teams that you are also
treating. What are some of those factors
549
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:16.280
that you look at to help you
make that decision knowing the person, the
550
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:23.320
clinicians, whether they're a good fit
with that particular group of the athletic population
551
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:30.840
in that sport that we're with the
US Open. That was both amateurs and
552
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:37.559
professionals that were participating in this event, and there was I want to say
553
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:45.559
close to not quite three thousand like
that, but it was four hundred athletes.
554
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:52.440
And I was the healthcare provider or
that, and I don't I'm not
555
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:59.800
a chiropractor, and I know that
that is an opportunity. Well, first,
556
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:04.760
the athletes are looking for something.
They're not always looking for massage or
557
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:13.880
re practic medicine, chiropractical care.
Sometimes it's these spinal adjustments. Majority of
558
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.199
them all right, let's face the
majority of them are looking spinal adjustments.
559
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:23.440
But I said, I've got the
person that is perfect for that that I
560
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:30.039
come in and provide so much more
than just a spinal adjustment. And it
561
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:38.599
was his knowledge with rehabilitation and the
dynamic tape and his ability to relate with
562
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:45.559
these high level athletes was critical for
me. I just knew that he knew
563
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:51.440
how to flow in and out of
his lane in an appropriate manner, and
564
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.000
I trusted him, and I knew
that he was going to take care of
565
00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:00.400
the athletes the way that I felt
like they needed to be and I didn't
566
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.760
even hesitate with it, and the
it was just a good fit with that.
567
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:12.400
I wanted to like touch on something
here though. My start was with
568
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:19.119
actually with USA Track and Field,
and I volunteered to do the Atlanta Marathon
569
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.920
and then I got the Then COVID
hit and I had the opportunity to go
570
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:29.199
out to the Track and Field Olympic
Trials and I worked that and then shortly
571
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:35.280
after that, USA Racketball was looking
for a dual credential and they they reached
572
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:39.880
out the USOPC reached out to someone
and they were like, we'll contact Roger,
573
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:46.239
and they contacted me and I my
first trip with USA Racketball was down
574
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:52.159
to Guatemala for the World Championships and
we won. We took home gold with
575
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:58.239
that. Shortly thereafter, they they
reached back out to me and they said,
576
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:06.039
we don't know exactly what you did, but every single athlete was like,
577
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.199
whenever we go on a trip again, we want Roger with us.
578
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:16.559
And that started my relationship with racquetball
and they trusted me in the athletes,
579
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:23.280
I said, transitioning into bringing Todd
into the US Open in USA racquetball.
580
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:29.360
When I said go to Todd,
let him work with you on this,
581
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:35.519
they didn't matter any They knew that
what I said then they could trust Todd.
582
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:39.280
So that was kind of like credibility. And then Todd just what his
583
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:49.199
actions and his professionalism spoke volumes for
himself and the rest is history. Hey
584
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:51.920
guys, if you like what you
heard today, I encourage you to visit
585
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:59.840
our website at Factor hyphenstore dot com
that's spelled fa k t r hyphenstore dot
586
00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.639
com to find out more information about
all that we have to offer. We
587
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.840
have a variety of online offerings as
well as our hands on Factor Rehab System
588
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course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure to also check out our
589
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.039
event calendar and bookmark any of these
upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the
590
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:19.039
near future so you can join us
live. And of course, the biggest
591
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.199
compliment we can receive is for you
to help us spread the word to your
592
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:24.920
friends, colleagues, and classmates.
You'll find all the important links, as
593
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:28.960
well as info about our sponsors in
the show notes, so be sure to
594
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check those out
