EP 3:53 LGBT Foundation: Voices of Chemsex

WEBVTT
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That my voices are the ones that kind of sat me down and really made me understand parts of myself.
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You know, it is it's something that I've had to deal with.
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It's freaked people out, it's freaked me out.
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It's been the reason why I was on substances a lot, because when I did substances, I can block out all the stuff that I hear all the time.
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And yeah, I belie yeah, that's kind of how it is.
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It's like schizophrenics at times.
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You know, sometimes substances help them to chemsex.
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Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others.
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Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast.
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Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering.
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Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast.
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Thank you for being here.
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I'm your host, Alice, and we are privileged today to have a very different podcast.
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And we're going to have a sort of a focus group, a panel discussion from three uh people in um London who are volunteers for and associated with the LGBT Foundation.
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Um I met Reese, who is the sexual health HIVE coordinator for them at the Chemsex conference in Belgium in March.
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And uh we have been kind of back and forth on what ideas we could have.
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And we thought it would be interesting to feature three people who have stories around chemsex.
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And if I want you to, if you're listening to know I I've put a little thing out on Instagram and on social media to say, please if you're interested in sharing your story, please come on the podcast because the the times when I bring on a real life story of somebody who's been in chemsex and they've recovered from chemsex or they've managed their use or whatever, those those episodes do really, really well and they have a lot of impact.
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Um, because I can talk to therapists and I can talk to specialists and I can speak to authors and all those kind of things, but it really matters when you have direct experience with it and you know exactly what it's like to be in the chemsex scene and to to be in this world of the the the gays, um to be in that in that subculture, um it's it's a it's a different experience.
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So we're gonna we're gonna dive in today with three three people, share their stories, and we'll see where this discussion goes.
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So all right, so I'm gonna start with you, Hugh, if you'd like to introduce yourself and tell us about your experiences or experience.
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Yeah, no problem at all.
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So hi everyone, my name is Hugh.
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I'm originally from Derry City in Ireland.
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Um been living in Manchester now for five years.
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Um I started experimenting with the probably my main drug of choice would have been crystal meth.
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Um that started taking more of an effect in my life.
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Probably I don't want to blame because we're all based in Manchester, um, but it became a bit more frequent in Manchester because we wouldn't you don't really get away with doing drugs as much in Ireland for political reasons, but we'll not get into that one today.
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Okay.
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Um that's a different story altogether, but you just can't get away with it as much there.
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Um I was very I was very excited about moving to Manchester and I I just wanted to get away from the Ireland life because just back at home it's a bit more settled, you don't really have the best gay experiences over there.
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Manchester and England's a wee bit more freer.
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Um but I also did come over here being very naive because I didn't I didn't know anyone when I moved to Manchester.
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I didn't have any friends, any family background, it was just very much a big fish and a small fish in a big pond.
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Yeah.
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Um and I started dealing with crystal meth, I would have smoked it, um, slammed and booty bump and just getting all the big buzzwords out now as I can.
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Um just for the re just for the listeners so they know.
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And my experience ended up taking a turmoil turn because it's my addiction got so bad that I was getting fired from jobs quite a bit.
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Um not just once or twice, but a lot.
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And I was in debt.
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Um, I ended up being homeless, I was sofa surfing with a few friends, some of them which who were also involved in the chem scene, and they had relapses, and I would have had a relapse and just dark turns that it would have taken.
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Um, and then I ended up f finally getting into as I call the homeless channels where you'll be put up in like temporary accommodation that may be a hotel one week, the next week if they moved around.
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Um, and I got put in with other people who were having their own drug and alcohol or even just mental health struggles.
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Um and I would have found, even though obviously you're gonna put everyone kind of together, you're not gonna put someone who's crystal meth addict into a sober house so sober household, um, which I think you really should, because it might actually help the person.
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But that's um I I don't know what way it works with the council and how their their backlogs and such work, but I do know just with my experience it made it a bit more difficult because I actually did want to get better and improve myself, and I have done that now.
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It's taken two and a half years to really find who I am again and get back on my feet.
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Um, and not saying that I'm completely perfect, I have still had my slips now and again with it, but compared to what I was like for at least two years, I was every weekend five-day bender sometimes.
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Um and yeah, no, it's just it's actually it's a bit of a blur sometimes.
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Some of it I do remember qu too well.
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You get flashbacks quite a lot.
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Yeah.
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Um but a lot of the chem sex parties you would have gone to, you didn't know anybody, like they weren't like the kind of the way it works back from where I'm from, which is it gives you a good insight.
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You kind of know somebody from afar, like it might be someone's sister's aunt's cat, dog.
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You we're very small in Ireland where I'm from, like it's a very small city.
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We're over here, you've got people flying in, flying out, travelling all the time.
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Um, so you might be at a chem sex party in a hotel with four different people who might not even be there tomorrow.
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They could be flying back off to California, Abu Dhabi, wherever it might be.
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Um, but a lot of the experiences I would have dealt with were dark, quite very dark.
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There's been sexual assault done on myself with drugs.
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Um then I would have had ex is very bad issues with um self-harmon.
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Um my once there was um a suicide attempt um because I was too far gone um with the drugs.
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Um but that's that's that's what I'm just saying.
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That's only my experience based on I do know other people who seem to be in their words, not mine, but they seem to be okay or masking it quite well.
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Yeah.
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Um, so everyone's all got everyone's got their own voice, their own experiences for when it comes to this topic, definitely.
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Um but mine's was definitely dark.
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Yes, I would say that's the best way to say it.
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It sounds very dark.
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It sounds very dark.
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I'm gonna return back to you hit on a lot of points that I wanna rec I want to cover.
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Um I want to come back to you, okay?
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Um, and we'll move on to Patrick Katana.
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Is it katana?
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Is it Katana?
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Yeah.
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Katana.
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Okay.
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How are you?
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Hi, how are you?
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I'm all right, thank you very much.
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So I'm originally from Barbados.
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Um and I came to England when I was about 17 years old.
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I worked in the clubs like Heaven when it was owned by Richard Branson.
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It was amazing.
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And different culture.
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I'm 43 years old.
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I know I don't like it.
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There's a lot of witchcraft.
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That's my answer for everything.
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Um, but the culture for it was a bit differently, and so was the gay scene at the time.
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It was more party, it was more community.
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I remember going on the gay rights when it was still illegal.
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Um, and then I developed HIV when I was 20 years old from a partner.
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And I was prone to substance misuse at that time to, well, in Barbados, when I came back home, it was either deal with the HIV or deal with the homophobia.
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So I dealt with the HIV.
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And I remember developing a cocaine problem, um, really bad one.
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And I woke up after about 14 grams on the weekend to realize that, oh, it's the HIV I haven't dealt with because every year I would like fall apart.
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Um, and I realized then for me it was a lot of trauma.
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That's my first experiences with addiction, and I never went back to it, never had an issue.
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But sorry, I crossed my legs.
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Um, but originally then I ended up having a partner who abused me really badly mentally, and I wasn't aware of mental abuse so badly that I had a nervous breakdown.
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I had to learn how to walk, talk, and write again.
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Um, I lost a lot of my memory.
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I was diagnosed in England as the youngest person in the UK with a rare form of dementia, so frontalobatrophy.
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Um, but I set up the world's first LGBT dementia network.
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That's my line of work.
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And then um, yeah.
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Um, so I had to get back my memories.
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After he passed away, um it it's my memories surfaced because your brain develops ways to cope by knocking things out.
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But crystal method was my way to knock out everything that he was doing to me at the time.
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Um, I would I would inject.
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And if I injected, then that way I won't see what he was doing.
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Because he was a narcissist, one of the most horrific narcs narcissists.
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And I was completely isolated from my family, everything like that.
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And with no memory, you know, after he passed away, then everything came back forward.
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So I have a disassociation with memory and emotions.
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And I used crystal meth.
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And when I was homeless, I was, you know, I would take it and become your favorite fantasy because I had to have a roof over my head.
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And when I went into recovery, it took me like seven years of not injecting.
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And I would inject, even to my cornflakes, I would inject if I could.
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That's how bad it was.
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I kind of like learned that I, with my work, with the neurodivergent part that no one explained to you, because I was the youngest.
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You've never seen someone with neural issues.
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Um, I had to function.
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I mean, I was 30 years old.
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You know, I had to, I wanted to be like everybody else, but I wasn't.
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It took me half an hour to sort out pages one to five.
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And I handled London 2012 Olympics, 10.1 million million accounts, including 16 staff.
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My brain was like a BMW.
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But when you're trying to deal with that, substances made it easier for me to just, I'll take it and boom, I was that person I was years ago.
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You know, like I was able to sit still, function, but without it, I would start stuttering, I would start shaking.
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I had like paralysis.
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I was contorted, you know, it was but when I took the substances, my shoulders went back.
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I sat still.
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So that's how I kind of more or less advocated.
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Um, and my emotion-wise, you know, you take substances to block out of emotions because you can't deal with a lot of them.
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But also um I found that I blocked off too many emotions when I was on my substances.
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Um, so yeah, and now I decided to start doing the work within recovery because I was an HIV writer for many years.
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Um I was often post-america front page with my work.
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And then I went into dementia and I picked set up all the organizations around it.
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So anything around dementia, even within the U US, uh my name pops up.
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I'm one of the forefathers for it.
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Oh, okay.
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And then comes substances because I realized that I have looked at every single aspect of my life and, you know, more or less used my own personal crap to help other people in some articulate way.
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And substances was the last thing that I have not looked at because it's extremely triggering.
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I just released an article and I talked about triggers.
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I'll send it over to you because I actually really want you to read it eventually.
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But it was about the triggers.
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And as I said to my mother, I don't know where my triggers are because you're still going through it.
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No matter how much as you progress in this industry, you will reach a point where you face something that you don't understand.
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And that could trigger you because the more you the more I feel that you try to find yourself and why you did stuff, that's unraveling parts of your psyche that you blocked away using the substances.
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Yeah.
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If that makes any sense.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I listen, I I I'm a car, I'm a big Carl Young fan.
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So we talked about um facing your shadows and integration and things like that.
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And it's really true.
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When I took substances, I became super masculine.
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You know, actually became a top because of crystal math.
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Oh, yeah.
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And I love that part of my masculine team.
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Yeah.
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Most people become bottom, I became super top.
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Yeah.
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I did identify with masculinity when I was younger because my father forced it upon me.
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But when I took it, I was like, oh my God, I love this side of me.
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And there's a lot of my addiction also came through, but also the validation that it came with it.
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Because people think of me, oh, you're really feminine, you can't be dominant.
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But when I took it, turned into Godzilla.
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It's it's a different.
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And it's true.
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And it's it's people like, oh my God, you have a split personality.
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I do have a split personality.
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I'm a Gemini.
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I love that.
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But it's also facing the reality that there's an integrational part of my own personality that I wouldn't accept.
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The masculine part hide my heels in the flat when I meet men, that type of validation, people will be upset.
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And I'm like, and that auto is always mean.
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And over time we just learn it's not me.
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That's a you issue.
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If you have internalized homophobia, that's your business.
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It doesn't mean that I cannot be dominant in the bedroom or this or that.
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But these are the things I've learned over my years of using substances.
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And the last relapse was the June the 4th.
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I stopped.
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My birthday was June the 7th, and I was on it every single day for two months.
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And by the time I came out of it, I kind of understood a little bit more for myself.
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And um, it was my recovery coach just went, Do you want to go into recovery again?
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And when I explained to him what I did when I was on it, he just went, Nope, you're perfectly fine.
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He said to me, Look, you have a lot of knowledge to give back to your community.
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And that is something I always felt I needed to address.
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I kept on hiding from substances to talk about it, to write about it, to speak about it, public with everything else in my life, HIV, dementia.
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But this part, I was too afraid.
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And the more that I've started doing it, the more I've relapsed three times in this job because of the triggers.
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Yeah.
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But I find it becomes easier in time.
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And you learn, I've learned more about myself and my environment through the process.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Good.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, I want to come back to some of those points too.
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For sure.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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Okay, Luke.
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Hi.
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Um, hopefully you can hear me.
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Uh, because I've got these um uh I can hear you.
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And uh I run a CIC for called NeuroQuiz, which is for people who are queer and I identify as neurodivergent.
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And we are hoping to do a lot with this and maybe have our own lira one day, I don't know.
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Uh, but one thing from my own experience is it's quite sporadic.
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Um, my experience with crystal meth and cocaine and other things which is legal, such as poppers, which I take literally until it's so it's literally so unhealthy.
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And um even though it's it's completely legal, I I woke up the next day and my face will be just covered in like scabs all over, and uh a lot of this is down to impulsivity, which is from which is part of neurodiversity.
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And um yeah, in regards to crystal meth, there have only been like maybe five five or six times when I have taken it with um during sex, um, but I count myself very fortunate how I ma did not manage to go down the path too far, and um maybe I treasure this from my experience in Sitchers when in 2022, my first experience with Crystal Meth, I met a guy at a cruising bar in um well it was in I was I was in Barcelona first and um I went back to his apartment and I thought why not take Crystal Meth for the first time?
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And I will be perfectly honest, it was literally the best sex I'd ever had.
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Not only how I made me feel, but how I maybe look in the mirror whilst we were having new sex.
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And wow, um I knew okay, at a time I did it, but I literally thought that I had taken a completely legitimate drug.
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I was like, this should be illegal.
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I knew that I was possessed, but I knew I didn't know that it was wrong.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:46.720
Well, yeah, I knew that it was wrong, and I also didn't know that it was wrong.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:48.640
I will refuse to accept it.
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.480
And that day I was also scared that the guy that was with was gonna kick me out.
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.759
It's like, no, don't go, don't go, don't go, don't don't leave me, don't leave me.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.920
So also the emotional aspect that came with it.
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:02.000
So it was like taking, wow, that many pops pop as the emotional aspect.
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:16.000
So it's yeah, not only was I living a dream, but I was also scared of the next day I was gonna be abandoned by somebody who I met for what 24 hours and felt like he was my husband.
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:16.400
Right.
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:38.079
And so then um the next day um I was actually going on a I went to Sitchers and we were gonna meet up and the plan was to take more crystal meth and smoke some more weeds, take some more cocaine, um take the poppers, which I bought from a a store which was which was illegal.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.559
And um he actually blocked me.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:46.559
And okay, I was like, oh fine, fuck you then.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:19:04.240
Um part of my language, but um anyway, um that was if I could fit in, that was a godsend because that was my plan was to go back and soon to take that if he had come over, I would have had crystal meth for the next what well for the remaining days of my holiday in titles.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:14.720
And I spent the last okay, so I spent the last days taking cocaine and stuff and that, but it was like the co cocaine I've knocked about some addiction from.
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:22.000
The crystal meth, I knew that had I taken it for the remaining days of the holiday, I probably would still be still be taking it now.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:30.640
And I'm not gonna lie, since that holiday in Barcelona um six years, there have been times when I have done it as well.
00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:45.680
And um the after effects okay, I did not I did not suffer from, but at the time me and my friend when we took it, what had happened to him, he developed so extreme paranoia.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:59.039
Um I thought what I don't know what he was gonna do to me, was it I thought he was gonna maybe lock me out of the house, I thought he was going to frame me for doing something up with or that wow, I thought okay, something bad is gonna happen.
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:06.799
So maybe secretly I was sort of probably after aftermath of crystal met because maybe I was just slightly not as paranoid as he was.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.759
Uh he thought that someone's out to kill us both.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.519
I thought that's I don't know, the police was gonna come for us.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:21.440
So yeah, that's that's um maybe that how I f boom, I I've not taken it since.
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:36.960
Um well, you know, this um and like the cocaine, I've not had cocaine in God knows how long I've uh well I've had it once this year, but um you know, it's something that I can't that's has not really affected me like crystal method has.
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:42.880
But um yeah, my recovery journey, it's been very up and down, like it's been maybe alcohol really.
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.640
Um I have I I still am a recovering alcoholic.
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:54.319
Um I have cut down very up and down tremendously, but it's been quite gone down like that.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:01.359
I managed to give up the alcohol completely, however, as soon as I my my next tip of alcohol is back to square one.
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:08.079
So I think for my loneliness experience, baby steps is what you need to do, and sometimes you've got to find it finding your own pace.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:22.400
And that's what an an also factor in for me to start neuroquiz and how to support many people because I'm a big believer that one size does not fit all um size might matter, but um it's one size is not fit all.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:29.839
We all need different approaches, um and how we we can rec how each person can recover.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:35.920
Um neurodivergent people we all need we all have very individual needs.
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:56.880
Um and me coming to the LGBT foundation I don't think I could have made that um that many big sets that I would have had gone to like a regular like CG class a a regular organization for the general population.
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.440
I don't think so yeah, um that's That's my my experience.
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:07.440
Um and any questions, please uh feel free to ask.
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:08.960
Thank you.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.319
Thank you, Luke.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.160
Wow, what a div what a diverse group here.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:22.880
You really they really did pick the um uh lots of different um doesn't lots of very different uh experiences with kill sex.
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:33.279
I wanna I want to circle back to you, Hugh, because I what I'm picking up on out of all three of you is are issues and questions that I get the most of from my community.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:39.680
And so I'm just gonna focus on that if that's okay, the uh where I think the listeners might might m most benefit.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.519
You mentioned sexual assault, self-harm.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:23:01.519
So yeah, I there's there's a lot of so we we did a podcast that's coming up on moral injury um through uh Mel McCracken, and it's talking we're talking about not only the well well, we're talking part about what we see on Zoom, right?
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.680
And what what we're non-consensually shown when we're in these Zoom rooms.
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:18.799
And no one no one's mentioned Zoom here today, but but the Zoom rooms where you use I'm gonna use the stories for it if you if you need me to talk about Zoom rooms or the like so Telegram, I'm the one for the colour.
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.480
For telegram, yeah.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:20.880
Yeah.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:48.880
And but there's a lot of men out there who are kind of suffering in silence because they were assaulted while on G, they cheat out, and maybe they were you know, they were had somebody had their way with them, um, or any other any other kind of very variation of their there's a lot of men are ashamed to get help because they don't want to admit that they were on drugs when they were sexually assaulted, or they feel like they deserved it, or it's their fault.
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.799
So could you tell us a little bit about your healing process with that?
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.240
So hold on.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:08.000
So this one, it's um this assault that I'm talking about when it came to the drugs, this actually was my fourth ever assault.
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:18.000
Um I've had I've had two sexual rapes done to me when I was 16 and 17, and those were both um sober times.
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:18.799
Yay.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:30.319
Um the two other times were drug induced and they were a mixture of um G and meth and G.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:42.400
Um but the one that the the main one that we can go on to now would have been two and a half years ago, possibly three, because it was everything's a bit muddled up.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:52.960
I'm normally good with my dates, but um it I had been on it, because that's the expression we use over here in like England and Ireland, like, are you going on it this weekend?
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:54.079
Sniff sniff.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.359
Um I don't I don't know what it is that they do in America.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.799
You probably have your own terminology for it, but we say on it.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:07.519
Um and I I'd been on it for a couple of days at two different parties.
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:24.799
Um this person who invited me, they uh very narcissistic and they came over to mine and they like they wanted to try and snoop around my bedroom to try and find like what stuff I had or what was maybe a bit valuable.
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.319
Um they'd taken me to their hotel.
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:39.359
Um we'd had taken drugs and then he'd given me a can of coke, which because I needed a drink, which I thought this is great.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:50.160
I still to this day can still taste the the G that was definitely in that tin can of coke.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:26:00.160
Um but at about at the time I wouldn't have been proper enough at my senses to understand what was going on.
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:07.599
Or there could have been maybe an element, let's be truthful too, maybe I didn't care because I thought I'm with a hot guy, whatever.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:08.240
Yeah.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:10.640
Everything started to get blurry.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:26.720
Um I remember being near the desk where the mirror was just in the hotel room, and the next minute I've blacked out and I'm faced first in the pillow of the bed, and I've got my hands tied behind me.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.720
A little bit of kink, a little bit of roleplay.
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:33.839
My way of getting through kind of trauma experiences, even explain them through a little bit of humour.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.480
So if anyone's feeling triggered, sorry.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.559
But I have to get it out.
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:52.960
Um and he had whispered into my ear, I'm pure drenched in sweat, because you know how your body can get over flared with G or even just with the the injection of meth that he was putting into at the time.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:27:05.680
And he whispered into my ear kind of like seductively but kind of aggressively to Do you give consent for non-consensual, even if you pass out?
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:18.640
And I'm a bit like sweating, dripping sweat, and then he'd asked it again, and I just kind of was like, because I done performing arts, so for me, role play is hot and sexy.
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:19.119
Yeah.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:28.160
Um so at the time I was just like, Yeah, no, and then I and then basically from there everything was blacked out.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:36.720
Um I was in a hotel which is about 2.2 mile away from my apartment in the city centre.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:45.519
It was roughly one o'clock in the morning when this all had taken place, and I had blacked out.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:28:01.680
I remember seeing a wee bit of vision later on, and there was possibly a fight, then I've blacked out again, and then I have woken up in my own apartment in my own bed at 5 pm the next afternoon.
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:02.319
Wow.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.119
And I did not know what had happened to me.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:05.680
Wow.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:14.960
But I d did a bit of an investigation down there and there was a lot of bleeding.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:24.400
And the it was when I got speaking to one of my roommates at the time, I had said to them what has happened.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:24.960
Yeah.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.960
Um their response wasn't the best.
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.039
Um, I think anybody said they says, Well, that's what you get.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.839
That's what you get, that's what you deserve.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:46.000
But in also in a way, not to fully give them blame, they also were living with me, and I was dealing with addiction.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.240
It was very hard for them to say.
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:59.839
So as much as they mightn't have been nice in the moment at that time of their comments, it's uh it's not for them or for me to say that it was wrong or bad of them to say that.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:14.400
Because I think we can all pretty much share between us all like our friends or family members, like that they're not all gonna be sitting on the sidelines going, You're doing great, sweetie, keep doing more drugs, like do you know what I mean?
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:16.240
Of course they're not.
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:27.440
Um I've I've I've coped with it quite well, but a lot of people don't when it comes to those things that happen.
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:35.359
Yeah, how so how if if I if I'm listening to that story and I can relate to it, and many, many, many people will.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.519
What what are you suggesting?
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:38.880
How do you cope?
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.599
Like what what are some steps you've taken?
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:49.279
See, for me, I'm still on a bit of a healing journey as a person too.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:58.400
Um I'm trying to think of great advice to give people to help heal them because some of some of mine mightn't be the best.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:03.519
Um I am also neurodivergent as well, heavetistic asperger's.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:14.240
Um so at the time when it happened, the sexual assaults, as it says, there's been more than one, there's been four in total.
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:53.759
Uh there could be a possible element to me where I'm maybe just numb to it, it's maybe just something that doesn't affect me as much because I'm not trying to be woe as me and oh, I've had a horrible life because everybody has, but i if I was to take over the whole entire podcast, not that I will because I'm sharing it with Patrick and looking yourself, but if I was to go through like my childhood, my teenage years, other things that I've experienced, it's for me, it's it's not my main it doesn't affect me, it would it wouldn't be my top five.
00:30:54.240 --> 00:31:10.720
Um it was when I was 17, 18, 19, 20, because my second time having anal sex, like anal sex done on me, it was a rape.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.359
And I w I wasn't a bottom again then for a while.
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:16.160
Oh wow.
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:25.200
And then when I when I turned in 17, that one was a bit more physically aggressive because it it was hurting when he was putting it in.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:29.279
And I was only 17 at the time, and I was like, oh, it's hurting a wee bit.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:31.279
And he he headbutt me.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:32.640
Um my goodness.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:41.839
To try to try and make me a bit disoriented, and then he just slid away in and out, in and out, and I just thought, well, well, may as well just lie here.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.279
But I froze up.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:53.279
Um but I've got a really great support system, like I'll not mention their names, but two one of my two of my best friends back at home.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.960
Um they have also experienced it.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:09.440
Um and I think that does help in a way if you have had people who've experienced it before, because it's you're you're not taking all the blame to yourself, like why me?
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:32.000
Why did it only happen to me when you have a group of friends around you, or even other gay men, lesbian men, non-binary men, women, um, or in general population, like um we're all there to support each other, not everyone's all gonna have the same coping strategies um to deal with that.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:40.079
Um but for me, it and I don't want viewers listening to this and thinking that this is the way.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.640
To me, I'm kind of just like uh it happened.
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:54.799
Because it's just it's it's very it's just so numb to me where there's there's other elements of my life of things that have deeply rooted affected me.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.599
Um yeah.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.519
Yeah, okay.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.519
Well, I think I mean I think just what you said was is helpful.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:11.359
Like even just talking about it here, uh, you know, talking about it to other people and you have a community there, um, that I've discussed.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.599
So um I think that will help.
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:14.799
Thank you.
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:16.319
Thank you for sharing all of that.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:18.559
It's very personal, very vulnerable.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:38.000
Um Patrick, you I wanted to point I wanted to point out that you you were talking about that well, there's two things, but one is when you're when you're on this journey of figuring out why you're you why you use like why how how did you get here?
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.240
So much more comes up.
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:47.599
And this is what I this is what I try to tell tell listeners sometimes is that quitting the substance sometimes is the easy part.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:51.119
And because then you have to dig into all the stuff you've been numbing.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:58.240
And you talked a lot about all the stuff you were numbing, and so it comes up with new triggers.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:33:59.599
So what would you say?
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:02.960
How do you how do you what is your process with that?
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.039
And you mentioned several relapses.
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:06.640
How do you view relapse?
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:15.519
So I'm very spiritual and I've written this for many years, and but um I develop voices after my breakdown.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:25.599
Part of the um um photal atrophy is that these individuals develop hearing voices, and it's nothing that I can be medicated with, it's just part of degeneration of the brain.
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:29.280
And believe it or not, I just hear things before they happen.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:41.519
And some of the voices have kind of since I was a at some point I've kind of felt things around me, but they've literally some of them hindered but also guided me through a lot of stuff, believe it or not.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:47.119
That's I can I can never say it's been on my own and I'm not here to convert anyone to anything.
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:48.239
I'm not religious.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:55.199
It is just the fact that my voices are the ones that have kind of sat me down and really made me understand parts of myself.
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.960
You know, it is it's something that I've had to deal with.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.039
It's freaked people out, it's freaked me out.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.519
It's been the reason why I was on substances a lot because when I did substances, I can block out all the stuff that I hear all the time.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.400
And yeah, I believe yeah, that's kind of how it is.
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:12.159
It's like schizophrenics at times, you know.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.280
Sometimes substances help them to push it away.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:25.519
I am lucky enough that I have had something guide me since, you know, I've heard some things sometimes when I was a when I was a kid, but more or less more when I when I had to break down.
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:32.159
But it answer your question on how to face it, it's guided me to facing it.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:33.119
It's it's weird.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:43.840
Maybe it's a version of myself, but I had to sit there at some point and hear going, you are blocking off your heart, your your feelings, your your friends out of fear and scare.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.519
And you're going to have to keep facing it.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.559
I believe in Carl Jung, and I believe in the universe a lot.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.039
There was a point in my last relapse that I just sat on the sofa and put on YouTube.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:36:00.800
And funny enough, his videos of Carl Jung came through, and every single night there was a new video that I was watching that was just like released.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.880
I felt like it was just something for me to watch.
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.480
And it discussed that there's parts of yourself that you keep hiding.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.719
My masculinity and my femininity was a big part.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.840
When my father passed away, I lived as a woman for three months.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.639
I wanted a transition I never did, you know.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:18.480
And I had partners who did not like my femininity.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:19.760
So I cut that off.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:27.039
That's one I don't regret a lot of things in my life, but I regret not keeping my my feminine part to myself.
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:28.400
And I had a good balance.
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.960
After the breakdown, it was like, that's the world.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.239
The world was very into masculine men and da-da-da-da.
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:46.880
And, you know, like I had sex with someone, I kind of rearranged his organs, there were lungs to the left and kidneys to the right, and you know, and you know, and he just looked at me and went, you, you, you, you, you you, you you do drag you, you I see heels.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:49.760
And I went, Are you seriously questioning my masculinity?
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:54.000
Do you want me to get like your your you know, your umbilical cord from the side or something?
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:59.599
Like just, you know, like I, you know, your your colon's over there, like and he was just freaking out.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.639
And believe it or not, that part is the reason why a lot of my substances came through.
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.239
And I had to really sit down alone for a month on substances.
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:12.880
And I Carlong explained that sometimes you really have to sit there alone and face stuff.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:26.400
And I would be honest with my mother and say to her, Listen, I'm hearing stuff, and one of them is telling me I need to sit down and really face my traumas because I was never taken care of when it came to psychology.
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:28.400
Like uh my therapist was homophobic.
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:33.280
So in six years, every time I talked about PTSD, even though I was with support workers, he would ignore it.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:34.880
So I had to do everything on my own.
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:42.000
And it got to a point now, like it explained that you keep relapsing in life until you face those parts of yourself that you're not dealing with.
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.800
And one of my voices just went, You're gonna have to sit there and deal with it.
00:37:44.880 --> 00:38:01.199
So I sat there and I forced myself to think of everything that my ex put me through and really and truly embraced the fear, the scare of sitting in a room while he abused me, sitting in a room while he drugged me, sitting in a room while he'd got people to kind of like end my life.
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:04.480
And I sat there and I had to face the emotions with it.
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:06.719
And I would write down, I journaled a lot of stuff.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.400
I'm a writer, but I journaled a lot, a lot, a lot.
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:16.719
And I cried and I faced those parts of myself that I just really didn't want to face because it's terrifying.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:18.000
You know, I never cried.
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.199
I mean, I know Hugh has been a sexual assault and so was I.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:21.760
I never cried.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.800
I got up and just went, it's my own fault because I should have known not to go into an apartment according to the decor.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:29.440
And that was my joke.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.159
I was like, I should have never walked into someone's apartment when it's painted red.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:33.679
I mean, that's I had a laugh off.
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:34.960
I used the number for everything.
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:35.280
Yeah.
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:36.960
But that's the reality.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:43.519
For me, I I already had to, and I thought of a lot of things that I just ignored.
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.199
And even when it came to my friends, you know, trust issues.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:56.719
And to be honest, I wrote down a list of everything I already had problems with and I just faced them every single night and allowed whatever feelings or emotions to come through.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:00.480
And it it helped, but it's not always over.
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:11.119
I meet someone new, I have trust issues with people, and I don't realize I think I'm okay, but then the minute I see something that happens and I'm like, whoop, you know, I I can't push you in that same category as everyone else.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:14.159
And but I'm I have to understand that therapy has helped a lot.
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.960
I have seeked therapy lots of my life.
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:23.599
You know, I've gone into rehab, I go to my drug counselor, I I will actively have two therapists at the same.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:24.320
I don't care.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.639
I will search and ask for help.
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:29.920
And that's the thing that I couldn't have done on by myself, voices or not.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:30.800
It doesn't make a difference.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.719
It's the fact that you actually, as a human being, have to face by going to therapy.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:40.079
I really believe that therapy is the only way that a lot of people in our situation, all of us in this room have gone to therapy.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:44.079
I I I I believe and I know so we have all gone to therapy.
00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:50.239
And that's only sitting in a room with a with a stranger or a professional in a safe zone and just talking about stuff.
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:58.079
I cannot explain like how important it is because it's only sitting in a room with like my counselor, I relapsed and I didn't want to see her.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:39:59.440
And I said to her, I'm so sorry.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:02.800
I am ashamed that I'm relapsed with my father's anniversary of his passing.
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:03.920
And she went, no.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:04.960
She said, it's okay.
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:06.000
This is part of yourself.
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:10.559
I don't talk about my spiritual part with a therapist, but she said, it's part of your life.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:12.239
This is how and who you are.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.840
And it's okay if you feel like that's that's important to discuss.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.639
And it made me feel like, you know what, my spiritual part is who I am.
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.519
I all my work is based because I feel something telling me to do something and I will do it.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.840
It guides me, like a guardian angel.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:28.960
But that's my life.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:30.800
This doesn't make me resonate with other people.
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:33.519
Nevertheless, it's part of who I am.
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:34.960
So I'm not ashamed of that.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.840
I'm not ashamed to talk about my heels, have my nails done.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:39.280
It's a lot of shame.
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.920
And I realized there was a lot of shame when it came to my abuse or what I went through.
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:45.760
My ex was a paedophile.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:55.039
I openly discussed that at times with people because you know, I can't go after the people, but what I can do is educate you to make sure you don't put yourself in those situations.
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.199
You know, I'm very hypersensitive to stuff.
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:03.039
And that's the only way I can do it is because that's that's working with others at the same time is cathartic for me.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:06.880
When I was an HIV writer, people would write in and ask me to assist them with something.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:08.000
And it would be painful.
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:10.000
I would cry writing my articles.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:16.320
I would cry when I'm on the stage talking about dementia and how it made me feel scared and isolated and isolation and loneliness.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.639
But also with chems, because chem's was a huge part of all of that.
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:22.880
You know, it's it's it's it's a massive part.
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:33.039
But reading truly through the therapy part, I found a lot of um solace in myself to face those parts because you have good therapists, they'll ask you a hard question.
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.159
And sometimes it's one question to ask you about yourself.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:42.880
And if you're really able to sit there and be honest with your therapist and with yourself, and therapy can cause you to relapse.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.960
It really, it it comes, it should come with a warning.
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:52.960
But if you're strong enough, keep fighting through it, then yeah, I feel like that's how I manage to get where I am.
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:56.400
And I'm still my colleague Louise, she's my boss.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:59.679
And I said to her, you know, if something happens, she's like, Are you okay?
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.159
Are you right?
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:00.800
I'm fine.
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:03.920
Because at the end of the day, in order for me to do my work, I have to face that.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.599
There's going to be parts where it's going to be difficult for me to come to terms with.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:09.440
But I have support networks.
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:10.320
And this is the thing.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.119
Like all of us in this room here, Hugh and Luke, we we we have our support networks.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.840
And this work that we're doing is our support network.
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:18.320
You know.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:25.280
We might want to strangle each other sometimes, but I love people I work with because we're all fucked up, but we're all trying to get unfucked.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:28.800
You know, and there's something about being in a room with people who who get you.
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:34.320
You know, you do your own thing, we we support you, but it's that the fact that we're all trying, and that's the difference.
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:35.440
Mm-hmm.
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:36.639
I love it.
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:37.280
Thank you.
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:37.840
Thank you.
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:41.039
Yeah, feeling is healing as we try to talk about the bucket.
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:42.960
That's okay.
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.400
That's okay.
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:45.039
Thank you.
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:46.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:43:00.960
Luke, I yeah, I've just I've been um I think inundated with the most I think the most question that I get is about neurodivergence and men saying for a couple of things.
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:07.840
One is uh kind of like what Patrick was saying, is some men will say, when I take meth, that's the only time my brain is quiet.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:21.360
Like I have, you know, someone with with BPD or ADHD or squ or you know, some schizophrenia or whatever, and they say, you know, when I take it, I'm my my brain shuts off and it's my break from life.
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.800
Um but how how is recovery from chem sex?
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.760
How is it different for a neurodivergent person?
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:44.000
Well, um it's sort of said all along to a lot of people is people associate mainly ADHD with um substance misuse and a lot a very small part, uh very sorry, large part is ADHD.
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.639
I I have Audi H D, autism and ADHD.
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:56.079
I'm questioning my dysphoraxia and to that as well, 'cause I have ticks like yeah, very, very um, very, very ticks and outbursts.
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:59.760
But um one thing that is a lot is me.
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:34.239
Left unsaid is autism in substance disease recovery because like ADHD, there's the impulsivity, there's a hyperactivity and inattentiveness to the environment, and so yes, we take we do things out of impulsivity, we we take things because we might want to we want to fit in with that person that we want to have sex with, and so then we get down into a then um begin our addiction journey, well our our addiction, but then we want to get out of that journey.
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:39.519
And autism there is linked to routine and structure.
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:51.280
So from getting out of the routine of regularly using drugs, like especially crystal meth, because it has got a high, you know, it's not for being highly like extremely addictive.
00:44:51.519 --> 00:45:00.880
Not only are you trying to get out of the addiction, you're getting out of the routine that you are of of using the drug that you are addicted to.
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:07.840
So it's like the double the double it's like double the non-incentive, like extra barriers to get you out of it.
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:12.239
And yeah, this is where I say, okay, yeah, ADHD, but also autism as well.
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:38.639
So I think there's a lot there's a lot of things left to say about our DHD and how we do our our and the vulnerabilities and other neurodiversions such as dyspexia, the clumsiness, like a lot of people t take it because of like crystal meth it might make make them more aware, like but no, there's a lot of it's all about vulnerabilities and abilities at the end of the day.
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:55.920
And um you know, um Yeah, when I when I think of um when I have taken it, like my like my alcoholism, uh I was the do gooder kid, I barely drank as a teenager.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:59.840
And then when I did drink, I thought oh my god, he's frozen.
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:11.039
And I I drank when one wine became you're back on Oh, did I re did I disconnect?
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:12.880
Yeah, yeah, a little bit, you got frozen.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:13.440
You froze.
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:14.559
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:15.039
Yeah.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.280
Um tell me where where to start okay.
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:19.360
And the alcohol part when you use your alcohol.
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:28.719
Okay, so one bottle of wine became two, and then it became two and a half, and then I do three, it's like, oh my god, I need to cut down and down.
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:41.760
So yeah, I think um the amount of additional barriers to recovery is maybe that's where a lot of it's at because neurodiversity.
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:46.400
Not only gets it's a lot easier to pull into addiction, getting out.
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:50.960
I think that's actually that's need more barriers.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:47:02.000
So when we talk about the routine of it, it's that's kind of talking about the the um the ritual of it too, right?
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:02.559
Yeah.
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:06.880
The the ritual of using, is that kind of what you're referring to?
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:11.519
Um or what is the addiction.
00:47:11.599 --> 00:47:12.719
Uh sorry, ritual.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:14.960
What's what is have we talking about experience with that?
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:35.519
Oh no, it's like so uh a lot of people the in in in chemsex it's this the the ritual of getting the pipe ready and getting, you know, yeah getting your stuff ready and or or if you're the the whole the whole process of getting your needle ready and like it's yeah it's almost like a ritual of sorts.
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:40.480
Yeah, a routine you're used to doing it's it's a routine of regular doing it.
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:57.519
I'm feeling like you that's your use that that use of doing it, you need it, and also the impulsivity to that there's um also the impulsivity of not wanting to continue your recovery as well, like like ADHD as well.
00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:07.599
So um yeah, I probably don't answer the question well ritual, but um yeah, I suppose it's a lot of the um I don't know sometimes when you you smoke you guess the pipe ready, you feel like there's some glamour.
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:17.679
Um and that's but even though it's not you I don't know that's how sometimes I I felt when I did crystal math, I felt glamorous.
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.199
Glamorous, yeah.
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:19.760
Yeah, right.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:21.199
And I touch on something around.
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:22.239
It's good.
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.639
The reason um for people who are because I have ADHD and autism as well.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:39.360
Um it's for myself, I realized, okay, so when I because I had brain damage basically, and over the years, for instance, I moved into my apartment, did everything myself, and after about nine years, I had to remove again.
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.239
And if it wasn't for the substances, I wouldn't be able to do it.
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:46.719
I realized while it took the substances, how much of my brain has degenerated over a period of time.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:54.159
So each person with neurological problems according, like for instance, frontal biotrophy, um, organization for us is extremely difficult.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:59.360
Um different forms of dementia, dementia falls under under 230 different types of brain functions.
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:04.480
So and dementia within our community is more prevalent prevent.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:08.239
My tongue is tied.
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:09.920
Prevalent more prevalent.
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:14.239
Yeah, prevalent according to HIV as well, because certain HIV medications can cause it.
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:17.280
Um, and neurological problems as a result of trauma.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:25.119
So trauma's been shown to cause neurological issues within our within our brains, um, and as well as with substances.
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:29.199
But when I took the substances, it's part of my brain was able to function a lot better.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:35.199
And I've noticed a lot of my friends, for instance, will go, because Richmond is almost one molecule, I think, from being crystal meth.
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:38.400
And if you're on the right micro dosage, you're able to function.
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:39.599
And it was just amazing.
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:54.559
And at that time, it was like I said to my mother, I'm sorry, but I can't handle doing the um sort out the bills, the floor, and everything I had to do all over again, as well as a PTSD about moving into my apartment because I was homeless as well, and all of that stuff that came through.
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:59.599
But when I took it, bam, I can suddenly sit up straight, sit down and do all the paperwork, da-da-da-da.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:06.480
First time I did crystal meth, I sat down and read a book, did my teurns while my friend Hoovered about three times naked because he was sweating.
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:07.920
But I sat down and read a book.
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.519
It's a different aspect.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:16.800
But according to your brain functionality as well, and if you know your ADHD, it can either really set you off.
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:21.360
But if you learn, I found to learn myself and center myself, I can be calm with it.
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.559
And it calmed because I was able to sit down and function.
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:29.519
Now I am able to do the a lot better on my own with a little more distraction everywhere.
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:33.840
But just that's kind of also the aspect of neurological if you have, yeah.
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:34.719
Yeah.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:39.199
So you learned to adapt though, you learn to focus more without.
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:41.599
Yeah, I had something always screaming at me.
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:43.679
Tell me, sit down, relax, da da da.
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:44.000
Right.
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:48.800
Because I had, as I said, I had something always telling me what how to to do it.
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:54.639
And not only that, I didn't want to have to rely on it in the future for everything.
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.800
You know, it's like I was always in control.
00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:00.800
I did substances to stop on on the on the Monday, never had an issue.
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:07.119
But when I had my breakdown and I had all that trauma and suppressed stuff, yeah, I I used it.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:08.239
It was no longer for fun.
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:09.440
It was to cope.
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:10.480
And there's a difference.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.800
Every time my friend is injected, I no longer felt that rational excitement.
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:16.639
It was trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma.
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:18.000
Loads of shit, loads of crap.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.960
Have to deal with people.
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:19.760
It wasn't that.
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:26.320
And one of my as my as I would hear, if it outweighs the fun, then it's no longer fun for you.
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:28.320
You know, everyone needs an escapism.
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:30.239
Everyone needs an extra escapism.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.960
My friend is, you know, might be diagnosed with cancer.
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.159
That's triggering for me.
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.840
I want to escape, but I can't, I just I just can't cope with it.
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:47.599
You know, so I had to learn what am I gonna do now that I did differ what can I do now that I didn't do differently, which is talk to my friends, explain to them my feelings and my emotions.
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:51.360
Also, with my mentality, I have to just maybe take a nap.
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.199
Sleeping really helps.
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:58.719
Really do day naps are amazing for recovery because you center yourself.
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:02.400
Because you gotta understand, I was on substances maybe for two years every single day.
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.360
I've been doing substances since I was 30 to cope.
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:11.199
But it got better when I started to really just relax and sleep and eat and the basics of it.
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:14.559
And that causes that that helps regulate yourself.
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:17.679
You know, I've been reading an amazing book um the doping effect.
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:18.639
I will send it over to you.
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:24.239
That really teach taught me how to to manage the the twitch and the I'm still very twitchy.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:24.880
I move around a lot.
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:26.719
I can't help, I can't sit still too much.
00:52:27.039 --> 00:52:30.960
But I had to at some point in time, I'm 43 and I live by myself.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:32.000
I don't have a partner.
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:33.519
My my my mom's 80.
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:34.480
She lives in another country.
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:35.440
I live by myself.
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:39.039
I don't have the luxury as dependent on someone to take care of me.
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:40.719
I have to do this shit by myself.
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:42.079
I've been single for eight years.
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:46.719
I would like to have a partner at some point, but I cannot expect them to have to cope with this other stuff.
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:52.559
I have to take care of me in order to make me feel better, that I can cope with my own, you know, my own reflection.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:53:00.639
That is where I had to learn really strongly to manage a lot of the the dysfunctionality that I created for myself sometimes.
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:02.079
Did that make sense?
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:03.119
Yeah.
00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:04.079
Yeah.
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:05.599
Go ahead.
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:23.679
Um Yeah, well uh one thing uh that made me think um one of uh the people I'm working with on EuroQuiz, uh Elaine Cold, she told me about uh an emotion that neurodivergent people get and extremely, extremely lot more than neurotypical.
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:29.519
And it's the what things would feel like if we if things went the other way.
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:45.599
And I thought that makes makes sense a lot of my life about okay, even though I don't struggle with regret, I've got very, very little regrets, but sometimes I'm thinking maybe I took maybe if I um didn't take crystal meth, maybe I would have regretted taking it, thinking, oh well.
00:53:46.159 --> 00:54:21.840
So that's not yeah you know, I mean that maybe that that also sums up a lot of that as well, like the the amount of emotional barriers we get because um like social injustice, like you know, you see that social injustice, the way we feel about that is linked to new adversity and the way we feel like um we we feel like we did live in them for the moment, or sometimes we uh um like people with autism need to make very, very long decisions, but with people with ADHD, we make impulse decisions, but we we don't want to have regret at all.
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:24.719
And that's how I feel I don't I don't want any regret at all.
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:31.199
So that's I definitely be the reason why I have I did take crystal meth and cocaine initially.
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:33.440
And that yeah.
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:35.119
Yeah, thank you.
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.760
Thank you.
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.960
One more thing for you, Luke, is that you mentioned you you you you said a comment that I've heard a lot, yeah.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.920
Crystal the first time I did crystal was the best sex I ever had.
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:44.320
Right?
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:45.039
Yeah.
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:51.440
Have you has that affected your your sex life, your sober sex life?
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:53.760
I mean, uh have you had any difficulties there?
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:55.360
What's your journey been like?
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:04.559
Well, I'm a fantasist, but I'm also uh I consider myself a romance addict, not a sex I'm not not a sex addict, but it's just affected me.
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.320
But I'm a romance addict.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:06.800
Okay.
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:14.800
And I think since I've um when I do have yeah, I feel I feel like I want to feel sexy.
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:19.840
I want to how to commit sexy every time I have it, live for the moment.
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:24.000
Could crystal meth have made me feel like that a lot more I don't know.
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:26.800
Um sorry, can you compute the question?
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.199
Sorry, um I think I went into the question too fast.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:31.119
I didn't think I didn't make it before I spoke.
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:38.880
Yeah, that was just some people have difficulties with sober sex after they've experienced meth sex.
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:40.000
Yeah.
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:42.400
Has that been your experience at all?
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:46.719
Um I say very small.
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:52.239
Um I would love to feel that way I did again when at that time I did have the first time.
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:53.280
I would absolutely love.
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:57.599
But would I have crystal no, I don't doesn't mean that I would take crystal meth.
00:55:57.679 --> 00:55:59.280
It'd be it's a luxury that I want to have.
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:01.280
I can't say I'm never gonna take it again.
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:03.599
I don't I don't make promises that I can't do.
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:03.840
Right.
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:05.360
Um if I take it, I take it.
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:41.760
If I if I take it and okay, then I hope I do end up feeling that way if I was gonna take it, um and uh yeah, but yeah, I I I do think you know, a lot it would affect a lot of people and um like the second time I took it, no, I did not feel anywhere near as sexy as I did the first time, but I have had lots of s of um sober s well I normally do have alcohol with sex, but um I've not I've not really had much sex with you because I'd have a surgery, but yeah, I've had um yeah, I've had a lot of sex where I felt that sexy yet since.
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:50.320
Um maybe not quite as much, um, but you know what, just think about your fantasy, think about it's about your sex to make it creative.
00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:51.840
As long as there's content each way.
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:53.519
So I'm a massive believing consent.
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.960
I've also experienced sexual assaults where no means know.
00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:11.440
If you could you could always ask as long as it's a legal, each person needs to ask to make it their own fantasy, and then if the other person consents and do it exper experiment, um yeah, try and think of ways to get high.
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:14.880
It's a human right.
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:25.599
So many other ways we can get high, we can get high from life, we can get high from yeah, fantasizing, feeling sexy, and something I always try to do when having sex feel sexy.
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:34.800
So think of your kinks, yeah, whether it's your kinks or whether you're vanilla, but just yeah, I always ensure that I do not start the sex clove.
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:49.840
No, I always start with this uh or I start make um yeah, I always think of your kinks and um and make sure you're having sex with someone that you want to have it with.
00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:09.199
And uh one thing I've not done since God knows how long, I think it's three years, I've never gone to any events like alerts, well well I suppose it's been a year and a half, but yeah, I've not been to any events where you focus on quantity how to get the most how to get the most um loads inside you or no, I don't re I sort of feel like quality.
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:14.480
You cannot get your fantasy you cannot get your fantasies, you've got to go for quality.
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:21.039
So you got to yeah, so I think um Yeah, I hope I've answered the question.
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.840
I don't so I'm really sorry, I was about to answer the question.
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:27.039
You have.
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:28.639
You have, you've answered.
00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:45.280
Okay, I'm gonna go around and just ask a final question in terms of Hugh, did we is there anything that we didn't that you didn't get to talk about today that you didn't that we didn't cover today that you think would be important that you want that you want to convey?
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:46.480
Is there anything we missed?
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:55.760
No, the thing I would say mostly for people who are listening in, it's you're not alone.
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:03.440
And like I didn't my family and friends back in Ireland didn't know what was going on with me.
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:17.599
They just presumed key struggling with England and it's a bit bigger, it's a bit a bigger pond than where we're from, because we're very community-based back in Ireland, everybody knows each other the same before we're over here, it's different.
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:33.199
Um, once my family found out, because I uh had an act had basically an accident um of like psychosis and all in the train station in Manchester, and I was taken away in the ambulance.
00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:54.159
Um very, very bad psychosis because in my head I could hear the radio stations from Ireland talking about me, which um which was really, really scary because I actually thought like I know it sounds a bit up myself, but I thought, my god, I'm national news, but in a bad way.
00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:02.880
It was like and peep people from school who you wouldn't have been the closest to, you could hear them in your head talking about you in the radio station.
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:23.039
Um, and it was my mother who flew over to Ireland because um she had gotten a phone call from the hospital to say, look, your son's in very bad condition here with drug psychosis, and she dropped to the floor because I've always been very close with her from very, very young.
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:29.760
Um I've never lied to her about anything because being honest, and she wouldn't maybe send this her.
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:42.800
My father would have had a lot of issues in the first ten years of their marriage, so she would have leaned on me a lot too, which I know a lot of therapists that I've spoken to before have said to me, Oh, she shouldn't have done that and she shouldn't listen.
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:53.119
I'm like, Well, look, nobody's got a manual, nobody's got a sc nobody's got a book to tell you how to how to parent your child, or even just as as a single man, how to live your life.
01:00:53.360 --> 01:01:01.039
Um I always say to people, because I I've I've helped a lot of people in the last two years with their own recovery.
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:13.679
Um about two of my best friends where they were completely gone, like completely dissociate disassociated with the world and what was going on.
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:24.000
Um one of them, which at some point they might come on and do your podcast with you, um, they had to have an amputation done on their leg um due to their drug use.
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:33.920
Um my main thing to tell people is just don't hold it into yourself, speak to professionals, speak to your family and friends.
01:01:34.079 --> 01:02:10.480
Now, not everyone's gonna have that family and friend bond because some people come from very dysfunctional or maybe no family at all, maybe there's nobody left in their family, but it's you're not alone, and everyone's gonna have their own individual story, but there's also gonna be a lot of stories that people relate to, which makes you feel quite good inside because you're like, oh, right, okay, I'm not going insane, like that somebody else had voices in their head telling them that they were on the radio or something.
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:11.039
Do you know what I mean?
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:11.679
It was all that.
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:16.159
I found that out even when I went to my first narcotics anonymous meeting.
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.320
That was scary for me to walk into that room.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:31.440
Um and then at the at the at the end of everyone talking about their experiences, we all had to hold hands and we all we all chanted together, we're better.
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:40.400
And for me, that was so surreal because I've seen it in a movie before called 28 Days with Santa Bullock.
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:40.800
Right.
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:47.519
And I'd watch I'd watch I'd watched that 10 years prior to me even touching drugs, and I found it a very great movie.
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:51.119
But I said, God, thank God that'll never be me.
01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:56.239
And I should never have said that because it happened it happens.
01:02:56.800 --> 01:03:00.880
Yeah, so it's just people people just need to be true to themselves.
01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:05.679
I agree with Patrick a lot what he's saying when it comes to therapy.
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:12.719
Um but unfortunate in some ways for me too, I've been fired by my therapist.
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:19.599
Um I've also had to fire one therapist, and currently at the minute the one I'm dealing with seems to be doing quite well.
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:29.199
But people have to remember even after you give up the drugs, it it doesn't solve the full problem.
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:36.559
It's because everything will come flooding back to you and it'll be times the hundred.
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:40.320
But that's okay because you will get through it.
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:44.239
You just have to make sure that you've got the right support system around you.
01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:50.880
And it's great that this is being talked about more because it was very taboo a couple years ago.
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:51.280
Yeah.
01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:57.199
And like it was like I think that's kind of the way sometimes us gay men are.
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:01.760
Like, we like to do things that are like, oh, we're naughty or something.
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:02.320
I don't know.
01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:08.880
We're all I always say everybody in the world, no one's perfect.
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:13.039
Like we've all we're all a bit mad, aren't we?
01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:14.480
Maybe just me.
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:15.519
I don't know.
01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:18.880
But that's what I would take from it.
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:22.880
Just get your support around you, look after yourself.
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:28.960
Um, not everyone's opinions on you are gonna be completely correct.
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:35.519
Like I've I've had to go to multiple different therapists, you you have different friendship groups too.
01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:50.719
Um I will be honest to people just so that you know there is a lot of things that you do have to deal with alone, but you're never gonna be alone if that makes sense, as long as you've got the right support around you.
01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:54.239
But it is a lot of internal healing that you have to do by yourself.
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:54.960
Yeah.
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:56.960
Um yeah.
01:04:57.280 --> 01:04:58.400
I think that's great.
01:04:58.639 --> 01:04:59.280
Thank you.
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:00.239
Thank you very much.
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:03.440
You how about you, Patrick?
01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:05.360
Ooh, a little me.
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:09.119
Um can you touch on a lot of stuff, you know, basically.
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:18.480
It's yeah, it's almost like to recovery, you have to face all those for every good time you had or good weekend, you have to face like a week of shit.
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:20.800
And it comes up and down, you know.
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:25.280
First is your body that you have to take care of because you have to get back that functionality.
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:30.719
It took me a month of like I didn't sleep properly, so it took me a month of sleeping properly, having to eat properly.
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:35.519
The weight gain that comes with when you stop substances that's extremely triggering for people.
01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:39.599
And then having to fight with that part because it's the body that's that's a lot.
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:40.719
It really is.
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:46.960
And I wrote a piece in my article saying the side of um sub recovering of substances that people don't talk about, it's not pleasant.
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:50.559
And I can see why a lot of people think, well, why should I stop if I'm gonna have to face that?
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:52.639
But then that's your that's your decision.
01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:59.519
It is it really is uh I always say the older you get, the harder it is to keep all those things in that closet that you put away.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:04.400
All that shit that you pack away when you're younger, by all means, you can just ignore it.
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.880
But as you get older, it's really hard.
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:09.760
Like I can do the things like I used to do.
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.280
You know, funny enough, when I'm done drugs, I can slap drop as quickly as possible.
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:16.239
But sober, it's very difficult to lift my legs behind my head.
01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:21.360
I can't motivation.
01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:26.159
But I'm just saying it's it's you have to, it's hard and you really have to treat it as a job.
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:29.920
And it's really become a job to to to function.
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:32.480
And it's and it only comes with what you want to do.
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:33.840
What is it you really want to do?
01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:35.199
Like I really want my life.
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:36.719
I am I am tired.
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:41.679
As much as I see a lot of amazing things and weird stuff running around, it's I'm tired.
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:44.639
You know, and it's like, okay, I have to get here.
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:48.800
Like as my therapist said to me, says, it's nice to see you sitting at a table where you should be.
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:54.639
You know, like it's been a long time coming because people can see the good part in you, but you have to see that for yourself.
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:56.480
And you have to trust yourself.
01:06:56.639 --> 01:06:58.880
Like I said to someone today, I don't trust you.
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:00.000
I don't trust a lot of people.
01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:02.960
I don't trust anyone really, but I trust myself with you.
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:09.199
And I have to trust my decisions, my choices, my environment, my friends, my food.
01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:11.440
I have to trust what I make for myself.
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:15.920
And I think that's where a lot of us, I see too many people going, oh, it's a drugs that made me do.
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:16.719
No, no, no, bitch.
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:18.400
You're you're responsible for your fucking self.
01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:20.159
Stop blaming everything on everything else.
01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:23.199
We live in a world where we uh we deflect.
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:24.880
We deflect everything onto everyone.
01:07:25.039 --> 01:07:27.280
And we don't like taking responsibility for a single thing.
01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:31.840
And I think the part of recovery is that you have to take responsibility that yes, you were paranoid.
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:34.079
Yes, you stole, yes, you did something horrible.
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:35.440
And you have to face that.
01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:48.320
You really have to face that part that you didn't want to face, you know, and that's being honest with yourself because it's either honest that you did something wrong, the reason why you're here, or you are trying to block out things that have took in place.
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:49.440
You have to face that.
01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:56.960
And at some point in time, either it kills you or it destroys you, or you come to terms with it, you know?
01:07:57.360 --> 01:07:59.360
And you get, and then this is the part.
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:03.360
It's it's it's I have to say to people, recovery is not easy to pend up.
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:05.440
Like all of us in this room have been traumatized.
01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:09.599
So you're talking to people who've been really fucked up trying to cup over stuff.
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:16.880
And for the and for the worst thing about it, we see people going to situations, not saying that situations are bad, but you can get out of it quicker.
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:23.600
Like we, we, we really, we pushed the candle to the point there was nothing left, you know, like of extremes.
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:25.760
And I was an MPI, I'm an extremist, you know.
01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:27.600
If I'm gonna go, I'm like, yes, let's go.
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:30.319
And two weeks down the road, I'm still awake, you know.
01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:35.039
And it's so I'm not, I can only think from the worst case scenario.
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:36.800
I've always been through the worst case scenario.
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:41.279
For those who go through a little bit of trauma or whatever trauma it is, seek help straight away.
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:43.439
Don't be afraid to ask for help.
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:46.239
And if there's people around you that don't get it, that's okay.
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:48.640
Search an organization who can help you.
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:49.840
That is the best step.
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:55.359
The minute you do something for yourself, I it's like suddenly it gets easier and it gets easier and gets easier.
01:08:55.600 --> 01:09:00.640
And anyone who is spiritual or whatever, the minute you start taking yourself, the universe gives you an opportunity.
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:06.079
It seems like things get better for you the second you do that for yourself and you start learning your boundaries.
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:09.279
And your boundaries is not cutting off people here and there.
01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:12.000
The boundaries is you forgiving yourself.
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:21.760
I've learned in when my lines of like 20-something years of HIV work, is that you have to forgive yourself for what has taken place and come to terms with what you've done.
01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:29.520
You know, a lot of us don't want to come to terms with that, and that's that's what causes a lot of it because we bottle that shit in and we put blame to everyone else.
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:33.119
Yes, it's some people's fault, but it's also how I handle that shit.
01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:37.520
I am responsible also for some of the things I have done to people and made them feel.
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.760
You know, I isolate myself and I do drugs.
01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:49.840
I sit down now and put on my heels and I spin around like Lady Gaga for like for two days because I have great music and I close the curtains, and that's my safe zone because I don't want to put myself onto other people.
01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:53.359
But nevertheless, I have come to terms with that.
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:57.279
And you have to you have to know we're all of us have here gone, we'll never touch it again.
01:09:57.439 --> 01:09:58.079
We're not stupid.
01:09:58.239 --> 01:09:59.920
We're we we are logical with that.
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:01.840
But every time we do it, there's a sense of guilt.
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:06.319
But that's okay because that means your progress, that means you're self-aware.
01:10:06.399 --> 01:10:08.800
And the more that you feel, the better it is.
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:10.479
You know, it really is.
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:12.640
And sober sex, have a touch from that quickly.
01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:16.560
Find someone that you're comfortable with and talk to them about what you've been through.
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:26.960
And that's the only thing people are so scared of having sex sober because it comes with jitteriness, it comes with uh erectile dysfunction, it comes with like almost doing it all over again.
01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:31.760
There's a lot of anxiety because the person you are when you're having sex on drugs, it's raw.
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:34.079
But then sober, it takes time.
01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:40.960
And I found if you find someone good and you explain it to them and be honest, it makes it easier because a lot of it's in your head.
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:48.880
And the minute you start doing that, you have to allow yourself you either fall in love quickly, just allow the fuck ups, but just know that you're doing that as boundaries.
01:10:49.039 --> 01:10:50.319
That's the best part for yourself.
01:10:50.399 --> 01:11:05.520
Because at the end of the day, sex is a huge part of the reason why people relapse constantly because they feel like they have to associate the drugs with, you know, that masculinity or or the behavior, because they're too afraid to have sex over with an individual and not explain that this is what's happened to them.
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:13.520
You know, it's not easy to find someone, but I'm just saying if if you're able to, then then you can, but you have to start verbalizing.
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.239
People and substances don't verbalize a lot of stuff.
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:20.560
And that's the reason why we bottled it and what's why we are running a lot of therapy or traumatized.
01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:26.159
But the minute you start offloading that, the easier it becomes for you to to function again.
01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:28.560
That's my belief.
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:31.119
Thank you very much.
01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:33.119
I couldn't say anything better myself.
01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:33.840
It's great.
01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:34.319
Thank you.
01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:35.439
Thank you.
01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:41.680
Okay, Luke, what do you is there anything we missed today that you think would be important to mention?
01:11:42.159 --> 01:11:48.319
I think it's about how we speak to somebody who says of relapse, what do I do?
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:53.119
And I think that is what can change everything, could get some back into it.
01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:53.600
Yeah.
01:11:53.760 --> 01:12:03.920
Um, like you talk about 10 years ago when there's still well, there's there still is some, but when there was a lot more sh I don't think the word shame was was used.
01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:26.880
And you know, it doesn't help like um I one thing that does trigger me is when I talk about um how like people's reactions when they found out I did three types of drugs on one night when I had sex, or when I talk about how much how much alcohol I used to drink, and they go, Oh my god.
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:28.479
And I just want to slap them.
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:30.800
It's like, whoa, that's you don't say that.
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:37.520
So I think one thing that does help a lot of people is what is the right thing to say, and maybe you might need to get to know that person.
01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:58.000
But I think one thing like well like maybe it's peer support, which I'm big believer in, which is what I want to do at the end day with neural quiz, or um well, I think it's both peer support and critical support things that maybe a little things do not or don'ts, and a big believe I'm a big believer in in things not to do.
01:12:58.159 --> 01:13:12.079
Uh well and I think you know, if someone said look, I relapse or look this is this is me at my worst, it's actually you're telling you telling something about you which is a lot to somebody.
01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:30.159
And a lot of these things you're telling to somebody is might be something that you don't actually want to tell, but you actually need to tell somebody at some point because I think yeah, that that plays a mahusive uh part of recovery.
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:36.000
And like when okay, you relapse, okay what's the right thing to say?
01:13:36.159 --> 01:14:05.840
And it might be uh it might be also it's it might help for the person who's wanting that help if when they first meet this um this therapist or this peer support worker things that let them know what the triggers are, how and to tell them what to do and what not to do, that is a mass that that will that will help massively because um like we're all human, we all make the same mistakes, but we can also try.
01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:08.239
We can always we always need to try.
01:14:08.479 --> 01:14:15.840
Um and uh another thing is remembering that one size does not fit one size does not fit all.
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:16.319
Right.
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:28.960
You've got to make you oh yeah, one thing that really has not helped me in the past is anything repetitive, like CBT's questions how many times you felt like this, how many times have you felt like that, how many times have you felt like this in the past few days?
01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:31.520
And like, whoa, whoa, whoa, overwhelm, overwhelmed.
01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:33.680
I can't think yeah.
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:42.720
Uh a lot of the um therapy like CBT is too much repetitive disasks, and that's again it comes back down to neurodiversity.
01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:56.000
I struggle with things yeah, there's something not only do I not want to think of oh my god, how many times have I did I did I take this at the weekend, how many how many times did I drink two bottles of wine per night?
01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:58.720
It's yeah, that's one thing that I think we know.
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:05.680
It maybe you can explore more ways for therapy, how to get us back onto journey.
01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:11.520
Like art therapy, um that's massive, that is massive in my therapy.
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:15.760
And one thing that's I believe is a massive that does help me is music.
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:41.920
I I'm a big believer in music that's an upper or a downer that will not make you do these drugs because at the end of the da drugs are like uppers, you've got the crystal meth, you got um I'm like, okay, that gets you up, you've got down with like ketamine or down which people do illegally, um where people uh where people buy you know steal it off um their friend who gets it for prescription, but yeah, it it's about it's about hormones, how he wants the emotions change of emotions.
01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:48.319
So I think music, if I want to part like yeah, boom, I was doing some cash, but I'm boy crazy, that gets that gets me up.
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:53.199
Or if I want to go down, Kesha praying, or um I've got Tony Braxton.
01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:55.760
Yeah, so you've got to find your own ways of getting high.
01:15:56.159 --> 01:16:00.800
We need to we need to talk to more people about okay, get getting high.
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:06.319
It doesn't have to be something like um okay, crystal meth ketamine.
01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:09.119
No, it's think away of getting euphoria.
01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:11.920
How can we uh how can we get it?
01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:13.199
And what can we replace?
01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:15.039
Yeah, it's all about replacement.
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:18.880
Um I like that.
01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:27.600
Yeah, replace replacing the higher naturally or whatever you're getting from it, whatever you're getting from the meth experience, replacing that.
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:28.239
Yeah.
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:30.000
Yeah, I think that's great.
01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:30.960
I think that's great.
01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:31.520
Thank you.
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:32.640
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:34.319
Yeah.
01:16:37.359 --> 01:16:37.840
Thank you, Beach.
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:38.720
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:39.439
Yeah, all right.
01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:42.640
Um, okay.
01:16:42.800 --> 01:16:46.159
Well, thank you all for for your work that you're doing.
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:53.119
Thank you for the courage to to come on a podcast and share your very vulnerable stories today.
01:16:53.279 --> 01:17:01.359
Um, I know that it's going to you're going to really help um a ton of men all around the world by doing this.
01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:04.079
And so I just want to appreciate you for your time.
01:17:04.159 --> 01:17:05.680
I know it's late there too.
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:07.520
Um, but thank you for coming on.
01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:09.520
It was such a pleasure to meet all three of you.
01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.239
And I I've really I've really enjoyed listening today.
01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:13.520
Thank you very much for having us.
01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:14.880
Thank you, Dallas.
01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:17.199
It's a privilege to be on your podcast.
01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.199
Thank you so much.
01:17:20.079 --> 01:17:23.279
For about a year, one of my friends was like, oh my god, I follow him.
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:24.720
I can't be on this podcast.
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:26.800
And I'm like, I know we just bought it five minutes ago.
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:27.680
It was you.
01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:30.640
I need research stuff.
01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:31.199
I just do it.
01:17:31.279 --> 01:17:33.520
You know, sometimes like no, thank you for having us.
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:37.039
It really is we really appreciate the foundation.
01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:40.000
Yeah, yeah, yes, thank you.
01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:41.680
All right, all right, guys.
01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:42.880
I hope you enjoyed this today.
01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:44.560
Um, please join in the discussion.
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:47.439
You can comment on Spotify, you can comment on YouTube.
01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:58.239
Um, we'll put if if anybody here wants their contact information included in the show notes, we'll put that in there, and maybe you can engage with conversation on them with them to dig in deeper on their stories if you'd like.
01:17:58.399 --> 01:18:01.760
Um, other than that, thank you for being here, and we'll see you next week.