Culture Killers: The 3 Silent Toxins Destroying Your Business

WEBVTT
00:00:46.706 --> 00:00:48.373
Let's talk about culture killers.
00:00:48.373 --> 00:00:54.706
Woo hoo! Let's go! You're amped for this one.
00:00:54.706 --> 00:00:55.939
Ready?
00:00:55.939 --> 00:00:58.806
Wow! Wow! This is fun.
00:00:58.806 --> 00:00:59.373
This is.
00:00:59.373 --> 00:01:01.972
This is why I'm in business.
00:01:01.972 --> 00:01:02.472
No, I get it.
00:01:02.472 --> 00:01:03.773
These type of people.
00:01:03.773 --> 00:01:04.073
Like.
00:01:04.073 --> 00:01:04.772
Yes.
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:08.540
Right.
00:01:10.373 --> 00:01:14.305
I think that's our hook, I think.
00:01:14.305 --> 00:01:15.406
Stay tuned.
00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:20.140
She's the CEO.
00:01:20.140 --> 00:01:22.340
He's the marketing and operations guy.
00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:25.772
If it's broken, you need the business fix.
00:01:28.772 --> 00:01:29.605
This is the stuff.
00:01:29.605 --> 00:01:31.306
I mean, like, yeah, HR stuff.
00:01:31.306 --> 00:01:33.939
Yay! But the culture part.
00:01:33.939 --> 00:01:38.673
This is the stuff that really makes a difference in an organization.
00:01:38.673 --> 00:01:41.906
It does culture like it.
00:01:41.906 --> 00:01:42.906
It's so funny.
00:01:42.906 --> 00:01:47.306
And I've been in businesses with terrible cultures.
00:01:47.306 --> 00:02:00.539
And you see the owner typically like literally sitting in their sleigh, like cracking the whip on people like, hey, pull, pull, pull.
00:02:00.539 --> 00:02:01.840
Or they're sleeping and not caring.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.605
And everybody else is like, what's going on?
00:02:03.605 --> 00:02:04.605
What are we supposed to do?
00:02:04.605 --> 00:02:05.340
Yeah.
00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:11.406
Whereas when there's the good culture, you see, like everyone's just in it together.
00:02:11.406 --> 00:02:11.939
Yes.
00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:21.605
And the thing that I notice about this is in that, that culture that I was talking about before, where the, the guy's cracking the whip on everyone and just being a jerk and everything.
00:02:21.605 --> 00:02:23.140
I've worked in a number of those.
00:02:23.140 --> 00:02:24.140
Mhm.
00:02:24.140 --> 00:02:25.939
Everyone's tired.
00:02:25.939 --> 00:02:26.772
Yeah.
00:02:26.772 --> 00:02:28.406
And it's not always all that productive.
00:02:28.406 --> 00:02:36.372
No. But when you see a good culture you can see people that are just cranking stuff out and they're like, hey how's it going today?
00:02:36.372 --> 00:02:38.205
And you're like, oh.
00:02:38.205 --> 00:02:46.772
So either first off there's pumping some sort of like weird gas into the, the facility that is keeping them far too happy.
00:02:46.772 --> 00:02:48.605
Um, it could be the drugs.
00:02:48.605 --> 00:02:52.673
Um, like, is there a Xanax machine as soon as you walk in the door?
00:02:52.673 --> 00:02:53.306
Maybe.
00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:55.973
Maybe not.
00:02:55.973 --> 00:03:01.406
Maybe they've just turned their culture around and they know what it's like because it used to be bad, and now it's awesome.
00:03:01.406 --> 00:03:01.806
Yeah.
00:03:01.806 --> 00:03:02.673
And it's so.
00:03:02.673 --> 00:03:12.673
It's so funny when you see people that have been in bad cultures come to companies that have good cultures, you're like, oh, you walk through the door and it's funny.
00:03:12.673 --> 00:03:15.973
It's like an abused spouse that's finally in a good relationship.
00:03:15.973 --> 00:03:17.640
Why are you all smiling?
00:03:17.640 --> 00:03:18.140
Right.
00:03:18.140 --> 00:03:20.673
You're a little bit suspicious, like, huh?
00:03:20.673 --> 00:03:25.473
And then all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, there's there's people here.
00:03:25.473 --> 00:03:29.306
There's got to be a story where you've walked into a business.
00:03:29.306 --> 00:03:37.573
What's one thing that you notice right off the bat where you're like, good or bad, if people will make eye contact with you when you first walk in?
00:03:37.573 --> 00:03:41.140
That's a pretty easy sign, because their eye contact will say a lot.
00:03:41.140 --> 00:03:43.073
It could be like, oh, shoot.
00:03:43.073 --> 00:03:44.673
Or it could be like, hey.
00:03:44.673 --> 00:03:55.673
So usually the haze, like, you can see honest engagement or if it's silent, you go into an organization and it you don't hear anything that is scary.
00:03:55.673 --> 00:04:06.340
Because for me, healthy organizations, you hear laughter, you hear conversation, you hear, I mean, not just banter, but just like there's a hum when a culture is healthy.
00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:09.406
There is also a silence when it is not.
00:04:10.406 --> 00:04:11.673
I walked into the door.
00:04:11.673 --> 00:04:16.272
Remember the job that I told you about, where they heard the person screaming at me and walked out of the room?
00:04:16.272 --> 00:04:17.105
Yes.
00:04:17.105 --> 00:04:24.139
Um, I walked into that company and, uh, I should have known it was quiet, dead silent.
00:04:24.139 --> 00:04:30.639
All the doors were closed, and it was built kind of like all the offices were on the outside and on the main floor.
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.706
There was like this mezzanine level, like a bullpen.
00:04:33.706 --> 00:04:38.439
Um, in that mezzanine level, though, there was a pool table.
00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:42.505
There was a ping pong, On a ping pong table.
00:04:42.505 --> 00:04:51.339
There was a pinball machine, and none of them looked like they had been touched in decades.
00:04:51.339 --> 00:04:56.173
Oh, and I'm like, no one wants to be with other people.
00:04:56.173 --> 00:04:56.639
Nope.
00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:57.406
This is like.
00:04:57.406 --> 00:04:58.772
This is like the pizza thing.
00:04:58.772 --> 00:04:58.939
Yeah.
00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:00.139
We will not commune.
00:05:00.139 --> 00:05:04.605
No, like like they bought the pool table because it looks cool.
00:05:04.605 --> 00:05:05.939
Because it looks cool.
00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.906
And they're like, people are gonna think this is a great culture.
00:05:08.906 --> 00:05:09.105
Yeah.
00:05:09.105 --> 00:05:11.139
It's not a it's not a pool table.
00:05:11.139 --> 00:05:12.406
It's not a ping pong table.
00:05:12.406 --> 00:05:14.073
It's not, it's not.
00:05:14.073 --> 00:05:14.939
Yeah.
00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:21.406
Um, and that is that HR fluff that we will, we will probably address in this.
00:05:21.406 --> 00:05:22.506
Sure.
00:05:22.506 --> 00:05:23.305
Uh, what?
00:05:23.305 --> 00:05:25.240
I know you've seen this all the time.
00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:26.073
Where?
00:05:26.073 --> 00:05:27.240
Like what?
00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:28.872
We have to limit it to three.
00:05:28.872 --> 00:05:29.540
Fine.
00:05:29.540 --> 00:05:31.540
That's fine.
00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:35.173
I had twelve, that's fine.
00:05:35.173 --> 00:05:37.540
Chrissy was hoping that this was a two hour long episode.
00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:41.773
Thirty pages of notes, you're like, no, you will not write.
00:05:41.773 --> 00:05:44.573
What are the big three?
00:05:44.573 --> 00:05:52.706
Three, okay, three culture killers that you see most often and how do they start to take root?
00:05:52.706 --> 00:05:55.305
Because we I mean, you and I, we've been around enough.
00:05:55.305 --> 00:05:57.939
We see where this is starting to take a grip.
00:05:57.939 --> 00:05:59.206
Yeah.
00:05:59.206 --> 00:06:03.773
So what I'm going to tell you is I've got I've got three that I will do fine.
00:06:03.773 --> 00:06:11.973
Um, and I want to start by owning it, that I have allowed all three of these things at different points in my career within my organization.
00:06:11.973 --> 00:06:15.506
So I'm happy about culture because we've survived some of these things.
00:06:15.506 --> 00:06:16.372
Right.
00:06:16.372 --> 00:06:17.706
And people had helmets.
00:06:17.706 --> 00:06:18.605
People had helmets.
00:06:18.605 --> 00:06:25.305
And I would say it's happened to because not because I didn't care about culture, but because I cared about people performance or piece in the wrong order.
00:06:25.305 --> 00:06:25.973
Yep.
00:06:25.973 --> 00:06:29.240
And so culture killers don't usually walk in wearing that villain cape.
00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.639
Rarely do they walk in wearing the villain cape.
00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.006
They enter quietly through avoidance, fear, and misplaced loyalty.
00:06:35.006 --> 00:06:41.040
So Honestly, a lot of it connects back to what we talked about last week around wanting to be a nice leader.
00:06:42.105 --> 00:06:43.906
So nice leadership.
00:06:43.906 --> 00:06:46.872
When unchecked, it creates space for the culture killers to grow.
00:06:46.872 --> 00:06:47.973
Yes they do.
00:06:47.973 --> 00:06:50.540
And there are three B's this time.
00:06:50.540 --> 00:06:50.840
Bees.
00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:51.273
Bees.
00:06:51.273 --> 00:06:51.573
Bees.
00:06:51.573 --> 00:06:53.805
Are we going like is it going to be A's next week?
00:06:53.805 --> 00:06:54.473
I don't know.
00:06:54.473 --> 00:06:56.040
It might be I don't know.
00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:04.206
But bee so B1 is the brilliant jerk B1 you sank my battleship I did, I did.
00:07:04.206 --> 00:07:05.173
It's the brilliant jerk.
00:07:05.173 --> 00:07:08.906
So this is the fastest culture killer I know is hands down the brilliant jerk.
00:07:08.906 --> 00:07:13.773
It's the high performer who delivers results but leaves damage everywhere else.
00:07:13.773 --> 00:07:15.273
They hit numbers, they close deals.
00:07:15.273 --> 00:07:16.872
They are technically excellent.
00:07:16.872 --> 00:07:32.872
You probably really like them in your business because they make the numbers look good and they are emotionally expensive, and they do well, and leaders protect them because they're afraid of the revenue hit they're going to take.
00:07:32.872 --> 00:07:38.340
If they deal with this and have have they have a sweaty ten minute conversation and the brilliant jerk doesn't want to be there anymore.
00:07:38.340 --> 00:07:43.872
So they tell themselves, you know, we'll deal with the behavior later or this is the one that I did.
00:07:43.872 --> 00:07:45.639
This is just who they are.
00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:47.406
I am sorry that they hurt your feelings.
00:07:47.406 --> 00:07:48.673
This is just who they are.
00:07:48.673 --> 00:07:49.872
That was wrong.
00:07:49.872 --> 00:07:51.872
I. I did that wrong.
00:07:51.872 --> 00:07:52.340
I've done that.
00:07:52.340 --> 00:07:53.706
I did it wrong.
00:07:53.706 --> 00:07:55.040
I don't do it wrong anymore.
00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:56.240
But I did it wrong.
00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:57.439
And what?
00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.305
What I didn't see as a leader for a long time was the hidden cost.
00:08:01.305 --> 00:08:02.540
There was disengagement.
00:08:02.540 --> 00:08:04.340
There was quiet quitting, there was resentment.
00:08:04.340 --> 00:08:06.105
And then eventually there's turnover.
00:08:06.105 --> 00:08:19.639
Or that person is so belligerent and being a brilliant jerk that you navigate and create your organization around them at the cost of everything else that you're trying to do, we'll change the process because this person can't follow it.
00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:21.439
I don't do that anymore.
00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:23.073
No, I used to do that.
00:08:23.073 --> 00:08:27.340
So I mean, at clarity, we say this a lot is that you don't have a people problem.
00:08:27.340 --> 00:08:30.840
You have a protection problem because you're not protecting the right things.
00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:36.840
The brilliant jerk can outproduce five people and they can quietly push at least ten out the door.
00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:43.639
Yeah, and the worst part is, the people who leave are usually your steady, values aligned performers.
00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:47.805
It's rarely a problem person that exits because of a brilliant jerk.
00:08:47.805 --> 00:08:48.639
It's not.
00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.740
It's not the people that you want to leave.
00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:51.773
No, it's not that.
00:08:51.773 --> 00:08:52.773
You don't want to leave.
00:08:52.773 --> 00:08:56.206
No. So what do you do with the brilliant jerk?
00:08:56.206 --> 00:08:57.039
There are three things.
00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.340
The first is feedback.
00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.340
Because you can assume a blind spot first.
00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:04.240
Sometimes brilliant jerks don't realize they're being jerks.
00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.773
Sure, sometimes it's not always.
00:09:06.773 --> 00:09:08.305
The brilliant jerk has that blind spot.
00:09:08.305 --> 00:09:10.405
No one has ever been direct with them.
00:09:10.405 --> 00:09:13.539
They've never been rewarded for results and ignored for behavior.
00:09:13.539 --> 00:09:19.139
So you've got to be able to talk to them because they've gotten that reward for all of the things that they do, right.
00:09:19.139 --> 00:09:22.840
They have never been told that they're doing something or they can improve upon something.
00:09:22.840 --> 00:10:26.593
And I have had someone in my organization who was a brilliant jerk, who turned into a rock star performer when that feedback was given to them.
00:10:26.593 --> 00:10:29.293
I've also had brilliant jerks that I've had to exit.
00:10:29.293 --> 00:10:30.960
It's just it is part of the nature.
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.393
And this is really where radical directness matters.
00:10:33.393 --> 00:10:40.493
You name the impact, not the intent, which means that you know your results are strong and your behavior is eroding trust.
00:10:40.493 --> 00:10:46.593
So you've got to be able to have that conversation, that clarity alone for that person by saying, you know, I really appreciate the work that you do.
00:10:46.593 --> 00:10:54.993
You are a valuable member of the team and how you contribute, but you are leaving a trail of bodies in your wake, and we're not going to tolerate that anymore.
00:10:54.993 --> 00:11:01.725
The way that you're arguing with people to get work done, to be supportive of you, to do your job, is not working in the organization.
00:11:01.725 --> 00:11:06.225
You are not living our core value of teamwork, and you are not living our core value of excellence.
00:11:06.225 --> 00:11:10.192
And if they're like middle finger to your teamwork, we're like, okay, middle finger to you.
00:11:10.192 --> 00:11:16.326
It's so funny, the I, I know that there is some trauma behind this for you.
00:11:16.326 --> 00:11:26.826
Trauma because because I did it wrong when I was about to say the confidence at which you're saying this right now Is like.
00:11:26.826 --> 00:11:27.860
And the excitement.
00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:36.060
I'm like, she is like, I feel like you should be like laying on a couch and I should be taking notes because you are professing this.
00:11:36.060 --> 00:11:38.926
Either that or you should be on on the stage with spotlights here.
00:11:38.926 --> 00:11:40.126
Well, and this is a big thing.
00:11:40.126 --> 00:11:40.826
It is a big thing.
00:11:40.826 --> 00:11:43.060
And you're not gonna die if you do this.
00:11:43.060 --> 00:11:44.926
No, everyone feels like that.
00:11:44.926 --> 00:11:45.293
Yes.
00:11:45.293 --> 00:11:47.826
So you give them the feedback, okay.
00:11:47.826 --> 00:11:51.826
After you've given them the feedback, sometimes they need professional development guardrails.
00:11:51.826 --> 00:11:53.126
So that's number two.
00:11:53.126 --> 00:11:56.660
So if they're willing to grow you put guardrails in place.
00:11:56.660 --> 00:11:58.293
You give them clear expectations.
00:11:58.293 --> 00:12:01.926
You coach them and you create behavioral metrics around things.
00:12:01.926 --> 00:12:02.326
You.
00:12:02.326 --> 00:12:03.326
You're not vague.
00:12:03.326 --> 00:12:04.826
You're not nice in your language.
00:12:04.826 --> 00:12:09.860
You are clear with these individuals specific behaviors that must change.
00:12:09.860 --> 00:12:19.326
That's the thing that I think so many people don't do because they're like, hey, you're doing things really well, but I need you to be nicer to Bob.
00:12:19.326 --> 00:12:26.692
I don't know why I always pick on Bob every episode, but it's what is nicer to Bob mean, exactly.
00:12:26.692 --> 00:12:27.759
You have to define it.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:28.692
You have to define it.
00:12:28.692 --> 00:12:32.993
And sometimes the response that you're going to get from somebody when you're like, you need to be nicer to Bob is you're brilliant.
00:12:32.993 --> 00:12:35.192
Jerks can go, well, Bob's an idiot.
00:12:35.192 --> 00:12:39.725
You're like, no, Bob is a team member, and we are going to be working together.
00:12:39.725 --> 00:12:42.526
And Bob is the person that puts all of your presentations together.
00:12:42.526 --> 00:12:47.560
So if you stop, if you were nicer to Bob, I bet you wouldn't have mistakes on your presentations.
00:12:47.560 --> 00:12:48.725
Just saying.
00:12:48.725 --> 00:12:51.560
So you have that conversation, you coach them.
00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:52.826
Bob is tossing grenades.
00:12:52.826 --> 00:12:54.493
Bob's tossing grenades back.
00:12:54.493 --> 00:12:55.960
Bob is being subversive.
00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:56.960
And you know what?
00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:57.926
Can you blame Bob?
00:12:57.926 --> 00:12:59.493
No, no you cannot.
00:12:59.493 --> 00:13:05.660
So the third thing that you do, after you've dealt with feedback, you've given professional development and guardrails, is you document and decide.
00:13:05.660 --> 00:13:12.660
And this is really the hard part, because if the behavior doesn't change, documentation is going to lead to a decision.
00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:17.493
And that decision is whether or not you're keeping that person or you're exiting that person.
00:13:17.493 --> 00:13:23.326
And, you know, culture dies when leaders keep hoping someone's going to wake up one day and care.
00:13:23.326 --> 00:13:25.926
They're just gonna wake up one day and they're gonna be a different person.
00:13:25.926 --> 00:13:28.759
They're going to have their Scrooge moment.
00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:30.393
No they're not.
00:13:30.393 --> 00:13:32.793
This is not a Christmas Carol, okay?
00:13:32.793 --> 00:13:34.660
Hope is months ago.
00:13:34.660 --> 00:13:36.060
Hope is not a strategy.
00:13:36.060 --> 00:13:38.126
Hope is not a. You've said that so many times.
00:13:38.126 --> 00:13:40.960
And when we're talking about marketing, that hope is not a strategy.
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.560
Pretty is not a strategy.
00:13:42.560 --> 00:13:46.960
At some point, protecting the team matters more than protecting the producer.
00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:53.860
And I love how you put the document piece to this, because if you don't document to it, you're just going to keep putting that off.
00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:57.225
Yes, you're going to be like, okay, three times and this is over.
00:13:57.225 --> 00:13:57.660
Yeah.
00:13:57.660 --> 00:14:00.593
You're going to be like, well, I talked to him a couple of times.
00:14:00.593 --> 00:14:01.626
I don't know if it was one.
00:14:01.626 --> 00:14:04.826
It might have been two and three quarters, I don't know.
00:14:04.826 --> 00:14:05.360
You got it.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:06.560
You've got to keep track.
00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.860
All right.
00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.560
So second be after the brilliant jerk is broken.
00:14:09.560 --> 00:14:12.759
Safety really speaks to psychological safety.
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.593
This one's quieter, but I think it can really be sometimes more dangerous.
00:14:16.593 --> 00:14:22.426
So this is when people are afraid to speak up, to ask questions, to admit mistakes.
00:14:22.426 --> 00:14:28.060
Innovation stops not because the team isn't smart, but because the team's scared.
00:14:28.060 --> 00:14:32.560
And so here's what I want leaders to hear about psychological safety.
00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:37.993
It isn't about being soft and squishy and making sure everybody's feelings feel good.
00:14:37.993 --> 00:14:43.225
It's about being strong enough to allow disagreement without punishment.
00:14:43.225 --> 00:14:43.860
Let me say it again.
00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:47.960
It's about being strong enough to allow disagreement without punishment.
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:49.960
It's allowing dialogue.
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:57.660
You have to be willing to let people tell you as the business leader, the CEO, the executive when you're wrong.
00:14:57.660 --> 00:14:58.993
You have to be able to tell them.
00:14:58.993 --> 00:15:05.725
You need to be able to let them tell you when you're wrong, and then you have to be able to tell them when they're wrong or when something isn't working.
00:15:05.725 --> 00:15:08.793
It takes confidence to do that.
00:15:08.793 --> 00:15:12.160
And insecure leadership breeds silent teams.
00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:17.225
Which is why I said, when you walk in what's what's one of the leading things of of a bad culture is silence.
00:15:17.225 --> 00:15:17.725
Yes.
00:15:17.725 --> 00:15:19.026
Disengagement.
00:15:19.026 --> 00:15:28.460
I have watched incredibly talented teams slowly shut down because every mistake was met with blame instead of curiosity.
00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:38.493
In several organizations that we we deal with and some some former clients, that happened a lot more former clients than they are current because they didn't listen.
00:15:38.493 --> 00:15:47.926
Um, the other thing that I think can also be around broken safety, it can be worse, is that the leader's own fear of failure made feedback feel dangerous.
00:15:47.926 --> 00:15:48.360
Yep.
00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:54.526
I am afraid to speak up because I don't want to get yelled at or well, you just didn't do it right.
00:15:54.526 --> 00:15:57.060
Or well, maybe you weren't a good explainer of the things.
00:15:58.060 --> 00:16:03.893
So when leaders are insecure, teams get quiet one hundred percent and quiet teams don't innovate.
00:16:03.893 --> 00:16:05.725
They comply.
00:16:05.725 --> 00:16:07.360
They're just phoning it in.
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:08.893
And fear doesn't create excellence.
00:16:08.893 --> 00:16:11.225
It really creates silence.
00:16:11.225 --> 00:16:11.660
Right.
00:16:11.660 --> 00:16:11.926
Yeah.
00:16:11.926 --> 00:16:12.259
Lay low.
00:16:12.259 --> 00:16:12.893
Rare rabbit.
00:16:12.893 --> 00:16:14.626
Exactly, exactly.
00:16:14.626 --> 00:16:18.759
So this that's I think like it's it's a very simple one to talk about.
00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:23.660
It's hard as a leader to work on building that psychological safety.
00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:28.893
If you don't like to take feedback, then I would tell you go do some professional development around how to take feedback.
00:16:28.893 --> 00:16:34.460
The simplest thing that I have found on that is when something is messed up, own it.
00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:40.493
Yes, if it's the and if it's your team, it's your responsibility.
00:16:40.493 --> 00:16:41.560
I'm a part of this.
00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:42.126
Yes.
00:16:42.126 --> 00:16:47.192
If you make sure that you're included in the group that messed it up, that goes a long way.
00:16:47.192 --> 00:16:47.725
Yes.
00:16:47.725 --> 00:16:48.293
Another be.
00:16:48.293 --> 00:16:49.725
We do not blame.
00:16:49.725 --> 00:16:51.660
So don't blame.
00:16:51.660 --> 00:16:52.293
Wow.
00:16:52.293 --> 00:16:53.660
I know more bees.
00:16:53.660 --> 00:16:54.493
That's another bee.
00:16:54.493 --> 00:17:00.160
So that's that's like two a anyway, now be number three because you always said I could have three.
00:17:01.993 --> 00:17:05.359
Badly behaved values is number three.
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:10.393
And this one's subtle and deadly values that live on posters in your office but die in practice.
00:17:10.393 --> 00:17:11.593
You know, crappy wall art.
00:17:11.593 --> 00:17:12.326
Shitty wall art.
00:17:12.326 --> 00:17:15.125
Yes, I have, I have used this so many times.
00:17:15.125 --> 00:17:16.225
I love crappy wall art.
00:17:16.225 --> 00:17:34.526
You know, if because it's a great example, if leadership doesn't model what we mandate and we I think we've said that in probably thirty of our podcasts, around thirty two, forty three, forty three model what you mandate if because the culture notices immediately, the values aren't what you say, they are what you tolerate.
00:17:34.526 --> 00:17:35.625
Yep.
00:17:35.625 --> 00:17:40.759
So some examples for leaders to recognize instantly cutting corners just this once.
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:47.792
Playing favorites, ignoring bad behavior from top performers, allowing the brilliant jerk to wreak havoc in your organization.
00:17:47.792 --> 00:17:49.960
Holding others accountable but exempting yourself.
00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:55.826
You know that whole like, I expect everybody to be here at eight o'clock every morning, shows up at ten thirty with their Starbucks?
00:17:55.826 --> 00:18:00.359
No. Or I refuse to have relationships in the workplace, married to the owner.
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.059
Like, you know, no, we don't do that.
00:18:41.389 --> 00:18:45.689
When the CEO breaks the rules, the culture learns fast that the values are optional.
00:18:45.689 --> 00:18:49.089
And once values become optional, trust erodes.
00:18:49.089 --> 00:18:50.189
Leadership breaks the rules.
00:18:50.189 --> 00:18:51.522
Culture breaks trust.
00:18:52.722 --> 00:18:55.423
So I would say there are a couple of HR fixes.
00:18:55.423 --> 00:19:00.122
You're going to talk more probably about this in operations, but I would say how you can catch it before it's terminal.
00:19:00.122 --> 00:19:05.389
Um, where, you know, HR stops being paperwork starts being protection, stay interviews.
00:19:05.389 --> 00:19:10.289
You talk about how exit interviews are autopsies stay interviews are early warning systems.
00:19:10.289 --> 00:19:12.655
Talk to the people who are staying in your organization.
00:19:12.655 --> 00:19:13.189
What's working?
00:19:13.189 --> 00:19:14.389
What's frustrating you?
00:19:14.389 --> 00:19:15.522
What would make this better?
00:19:15.522 --> 00:19:17.155
It doesn't have to be a formalized process.
00:19:17.155 --> 00:19:18.822
It can just be a check in.
00:19:18.822 --> 00:19:21.655
Don't act like office space and pretend like you care.
00:19:21.655 --> 00:19:24.322
You actually have to sit down and care with these people.
00:19:24.322 --> 00:19:25.955
So don't just do a drive by drive.
00:19:25.955 --> 00:19:26.623
Everything okay?
00:19:26.623 --> 00:19:27.855
No, don't do that.
00:19:27.855 --> 00:19:29.556
Don't set them up for a meeting with the bobs.
00:19:29.556 --> 00:19:30.722
No, don't do it.
00:19:30.722 --> 00:19:31.123
So stay.
00:19:31.123 --> 00:19:31.990
Interviews are important.
00:19:31.990 --> 00:19:32.690
Culture audits.
00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.222
Because culture can be measured, but only if you're brave enough to look at it.
00:19:35.222 --> 00:19:37.289
And it's really having an honest conversation.
00:19:37.289 --> 00:19:37.923
Yes.
00:19:37.923 --> 00:19:39.056
Looking for patterns.
00:19:39.056 --> 00:19:40.190
Why is turnover happening?
00:19:40.190 --> 00:19:45.123
You know, everybody that works with Doris doesn't stay long.
00:19:45.123 --> 00:19:47.190
Okay, well, is Doris your brilliant jerk?
00:19:47.190 --> 00:19:52.289
Is Doris, you know, she a creepy cat lady who keeps, like, knitting sweaters for them.
00:19:52.289 --> 00:19:54.589
And they think it's weird, so they don't want to talk to her, and then they leave.
00:19:54.589 --> 00:19:55.623
Like, what is the reason?
00:19:55.623 --> 00:19:57.355
There's got to be a reason.
00:19:57.355 --> 00:20:01.389
Who isn't speaking up where leaders consistently surprise those?
00:20:01.389 --> 00:20:03.022
Are there not coincidences?
00:20:03.022 --> 00:20:03.855
There signals.
00:20:03.855 --> 00:20:04.222
Yes.
00:20:04.222 --> 00:20:11.222
So pulling that data together and then behavioral metrics, remembering yourself that finally behavior has to matter as much as output.
00:20:11.222 --> 00:20:26.755
How are people behaving if you only reward the what and ignore the how culture killers are going to thrive when behaviors measured, coached, and reinforced, then culture stabilizes the I. I like the culture audit.
00:20:26.755 --> 00:20:27.755
Yeah.
00:20:27.755 --> 00:20:33.755
Um, there's something that I look at when we've got a number of remote workers.
00:20:33.755 --> 00:20:35.855
We've got a number of local workers.
00:20:35.855 --> 00:20:45.289
Same one way that I alter that I audit our culture is I look at how people show up in meetings.
00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:46.255
Mhm.
00:20:46.255 --> 00:20:47.722
Oh it's telling.
00:20:47.722 --> 00:20:49.222
That is the number one tell.
00:20:49.222 --> 00:20:49.690
Yes.
00:20:49.690 --> 00:20:50.623
If they're.
00:20:50.623 --> 00:20:52.089
Hi. Good morning.
00:20:52.089 --> 00:20:53.923
Um, okay.
00:20:53.923 --> 00:20:55.623
We we we may be here.
00:20:55.623 --> 00:20:56.423
Yeah.
00:20:56.423 --> 00:21:02.322
If the camera's not on and they're like, hey, they're phoning that in.
00:21:02.322 --> 00:21:03.089
Yes.
00:21:03.089 --> 00:21:05.022
You're kind of like, um.
00:21:05.022 --> 00:21:06.522
This doesn't seem to be going well.
00:21:06.522 --> 00:21:07.522
Yes.
00:21:07.522 --> 00:21:07.722
Yeah.
00:21:07.722 --> 00:21:11.089
Huge, super, super simple way to audit this.
00:21:11.089 --> 00:21:13.423
And timeliness, especially on virtual meetings.
00:21:13.423 --> 00:21:20.255
If they show up ten minutes late, it's like, oh, I'm sorry, I was distracted with something else.
00:21:20.255 --> 00:21:20.722
Really?
00:21:20.722 --> 00:21:23.022
No, no, I just didn't want to be here.
00:21:23.022 --> 00:21:24.855
I didn't want to be here.
00:21:24.855 --> 00:21:26.255
It's pretty obvious.
00:21:27.655 --> 00:21:30.423
So I just didn't want to be here.
00:21:30.423 --> 00:21:31.490
No, I just want to be here.
00:21:31.490 --> 00:21:34.490
Don't, don't don't say you are happy to be here because you're not.
00:21:34.490 --> 00:21:38.089
So, Josh, most culture killers don't need dramatic intervention.
00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:40.522
They really just need earlier attention.
00:21:40.522 --> 00:21:40.889
Yes.
00:21:40.889 --> 00:21:41.190
Yeah.
00:21:41.190 --> 00:21:44.255
So, you know, systems don't replace leadership, but they support it.
00:21:44.255 --> 00:21:46.056
And when HR and operations work together.
00:21:46.056 --> 00:21:48.289
You know, culture stops being fragile.
00:21:48.289 --> 00:21:48.955
Imagine that.
00:21:48.955 --> 00:21:49.923
Imagine.
00:21:49.923 --> 00:21:57.123
So how do these culture killers manifest in the day to day workflow and the way a brand is perceived by the public?
00:21:57.123 --> 00:21:58.522
Ooh, I'm excited for this.
00:21:58.522 --> 00:21:58.789
Yeah.
00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:01.355
So to me, there's there's like in the day to day workflow.
00:22:01.355 --> 00:22:05.589
It is that not my job mentality versus flexible support.
00:22:05.589 --> 00:22:06.056
Yeah.
00:22:06.056 --> 00:22:13.855
Um everyone has like if you're doing like everything correctly, everyone has their specific tasks.
00:22:13.855 --> 00:22:18.556
Everyone has ownership of that in the same sense.
00:22:18.556 --> 00:22:23.889
If they should have that ability to cross a little bit if needed.
00:22:23.889 --> 00:22:24.690
Yeah.
00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:28.490
So and the way I put this is kind of structure with fluidity.
00:22:28.490 --> 00:22:34.056
So like my editor and social media manager they do some similar things.
00:22:34.056 --> 00:22:39.190
In fact they've got a couple of things where one does it for one client, one does it for another client.
00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:40.855
There's crossover there.
00:22:40.855 --> 00:22:56.623
In the same sense though, there is clear responsibilities for those things, so they know that if it's assigned to like if it's assigned to someone else, they know it's going to get done and they know they don't have to do it.
00:22:56.623 --> 00:22:58.589
Yeah, but they can.
00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:00.322
Oh, right.
00:23:00.322 --> 00:23:00.822
That's so nice.
00:23:00.822 --> 00:23:10.423
They have that ability in the same sense if like let's say we're talking about clips that we put out on social media for those clips.
00:23:10.423 --> 00:23:15.556
If, if like, hey, we're noticing that shorter ones are getting more views.
00:23:15.556 --> 00:23:16.190
Well great.
00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:19.755
That's feedback that should be able to be given.
00:23:19.755 --> 00:23:21.855
Yeah without a hesitation on that.
00:23:21.855 --> 00:23:28.755
So once again, just because the clips aren't your job doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to give feedback on them.
00:23:28.755 --> 00:23:34.589
But it's got to be good, useful, honest feedback in a respectful way.
00:23:34.589 --> 00:23:38.690
The if you are stepping out of your lane to help someone else.
00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:42.289
Yeah, I always tell people it has to be communicated first.
00:23:42.289 --> 00:23:42.655
Yes.
00:23:42.655 --> 00:23:47.022
Don't just reach over and grab the task and be like, oh, I'll take this off your desk for them.
00:23:47.022 --> 00:23:51.889
No no no no no no. You have to say hey, love to help you out.
00:23:51.889 --> 00:23:53.423
Can I take care of this for you?
00:23:54.455 --> 00:23:56.589
World of difference in how that happens.
00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:57.556
Recipe for disaster.
00:23:57.556 --> 00:23:59.423
If you don't communicate correct.
00:23:59.423 --> 00:24:05.056
Because that's when it turns into it wasn't my job or when things go sideways.
00:24:05.056 --> 00:24:08.089
Well, so and so said they were so and so just grabbed it.
00:24:08.089 --> 00:24:09.889
And that person's like, well, I didn't grab it.
00:24:09.889 --> 00:24:14.190
I grabbed this, which was different or adjacent or whatever.
00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:16.490
Once again, it's got to be communicated.
00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:20.355
And in that make sure it's documented.
00:24:20.355 --> 00:24:21.022
Yes.
00:24:21.022 --> 00:24:24.490
Um it doesn't you don't need to have a contract.
00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:36.190
This does not need to be ten or fifteen pages signed, but make sure exactly what's going on for us, like in asana, or if it's in Google Tasks, we can see who it's assigned to.
00:24:36.190 --> 00:24:38.289
That, to me is enough documentation.
00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:41.722
If there's an email or a chat like in Google Chat.
00:24:41.722 --> 00:24:44.655
A message saying, hey, I'm going to take this from you.
00:24:44.655 --> 00:24:45.355
Do you see that?
00:24:45.355 --> 00:24:46.222
Yes.
00:24:46.222 --> 00:24:47.690
Great.
00:24:47.690 --> 00:24:49.522
I'm good with that amount of documentation.
00:24:49.522 --> 00:24:52.222
Yeah, but there can't just be.
00:24:52.222 --> 00:24:57.222
Hey, I'm thinking I'm going to do this, and I'm pretty sure they'll know this by telepathy.
00:24:57.222 --> 00:24:58.355
No, you can't do that.
00:24:58.355 --> 00:25:08.490
And especially when you're in larger teams and you're taking things off of people's plates, then you sometimes you have that one person who's doing eighty percent of the work and they had no idea.
00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:12.623
And this other person's getting credit for doing all the work, but they're really only doing twenty percent of the work.
00:25:12.623 --> 00:25:24.522
So how it's really important that you communicate not just in dealing with the blame game, but also dealing with, you know, worst workflow actually going, do we need to hire another person, correct?
00:25:24.522 --> 00:25:26.522
Or just do we need to spread the work more evenly?
00:25:26.522 --> 00:25:27.690
Correct.
00:25:27.690 --> 00:25:36.789
So the other thing that I like to see, or that I don't like to see is and this is one of those clues that your culture has some issues.
00:25:36.789 --> 00:25:40.289
Is the meeting after the meeting.
00:25:40.289 --> 00:25:41.722
It's one of my favorites.
00:25:43.822 --> 00:25:47.755
You know, when a bunch of people walk out of the room, people are gonna talk.
00:25:47.755 --> 00:25:49.955
And it's great because in so many cases.
00:25:49.955 --> 00:25:51.522
Hey, how was your weekend?
00:25:51.522 --> 00:25:51.990
How was your.
00:25:51.990 --> 00:25:53.755
How's the Mrs.. How's the cat?
00:25:53.755 --> 00:25:56.322
How's the how was your motorcycle ride?
00:25:56.322 --> 00:25:58.589
How's your trip planning going?
00:25:58.589 --> 00:26:01.490
That when you hear stuff like that, you're like, man, I got a great culture.
00:26:01.490 --> 00:26:02.690
Yep.
00:26:02.690 --> 00:26:07.955
If you hear, can you believe what happened in that meeting?
00:26:07.955 --> 00:26:08.923
What is the point?
00:26:08.923 --> 00:26:10.355
Why are we doing it right?
00:26:10.355 --> 00:26:10.722
When?
00:26:10.722 --> 00:26:12.789
When you hear the whispers.
00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:15.289
That is when the hallway is the bathroom.
00:26:15.289 --> 00:26:16.289
The lunchroom.
00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:17.855
Correct.
00:26:17.855 --> 00:26:21.623
That is when you know you have an issue.
00:26:21.623 --> 00:26:32.556
Because whether it's you saying something or someone else saying something, there is a lack of buy in and you have to look, is this a leadership problem or a people problem?
00:26:32.556 --> 00:26:36.190
Yeah, I will admit I've been on both ends of this.
00:26:36.190 --> 00:26:37.289
Yeah.
00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:41.089
There has been times where I'm like, oh, they think they're going to do it this way.
00:26:42.455 --> 00:26:43.089
Oh yeah, they are.
00:26:43.089 --> 00:26:44.755
Early in my career, I was the brilliant jerk.
00:26:44.755 --> 00:26:45.255
Yes.
00:26:45.255 --> 00:26:46.822
Yeah, one hundred percent.
00:26:46.822 --> 00:26:49.589
I'm like, I am going to do it this way.
00:26:49.589 --> 00:27:03.990
Uh, the the the problem is, is the quickest way as a leader to create that sabotage the to create the saboteur that's going to be carrying that out is to just be like, I'm right.
00:27:03.990 --> 00:27:05.155
Do it my way.
00:27:06.190 --> 00:27:07.589
You have to listen to people.
00:27:07.589 --> 00:27:07.889
Yeah.
00:27:07.889 --> 00:27:11.190
You're modeling really great behavior when you're like, I'm right doing my way.
00:27:11.190 --> 00:27:12.289
Correct.
00:27:12.289 --> 00:27:19.889
Um, and it's the if you are unwilling to listen to people, it's just it's.
00:27:19.889 --> 00:27:28.289
And the problem that I have with this is I work for someone where I literally showed them the numbers, and it was two different ad campaigns.
00:27:28.289 --> 00:27:34.855
And I said we could do the ad campaign that you like, or we can do the one that I like.
00:27:34.855 --> 00:27:39.089
We're going to get six times the, the the reach with this.
00:27:39.089 --> 00:27:45.655
And at the end of the month, each month we can take four hundred dollars out into the parking lot, soak it in diesel fuel and light it on fire.
00:27:45.655 --> 00:27:47.289
And we'll still be saving money.
00:27:48.522 --> 00:27:51.255
And without hesitation he goes, do my thing.
00:27:51.255 --> 00:27:52.022
Okay.
00:27:53.655 --> 00:27:56.655
No. Is there a particular reason why you want to do this?
00:27:56.655 --> 00:27:57.522
He goes.
00:27:57.522 --> 00:27:58.022
He goes.
00:27:58.022 --> 00:27:59.123
Just do it.
00:28:00.289 --> 00:28:01.490
Okay.
00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:08.222
If you want to create sabotage in your own company, that is the way to do it.
00:28:08.222 --> 00:28:09.789
Oh, absolutely.
00:28:09.789 --> 00:28:18.190
Don't trust the people that you hired who are probably smarter and more skilled at the things that you don't want to do, and then tell them how to do their job.
00:28:18.190 --> 00:28:28.855
No, I mean, the problem that I have had with this in so many cases is it is a difference between having a leader that is open and receptive.
00:28:28.855 --> 00:28:30.923
None of like it's so funny.
00:28:30.923 --> 00:28:34.455
Nika, the editor for me when we started.
00:28:34.455 --> 00:28:37.722
She's probably on par with where I was at.
00:28:37.722 --> 00:28:42.056
She's far ahead of what I'm doing editing wise now.
00:28:42.056 --> 00:28:42.589
Yes.
00:28:42.589 --> 00:28:43.556
And you know what?
00:28:43.556 --> 00:28:46.255
I'm wonderful with that now.
00:28:46.255 --> 00:28:47.855
Does she think I'm an idiot?
00:28:47.855 --> 00:28:50.355
No, no, not at all.
00:28:50.355 --> 00:28:51.889
We have different skills and different.
00:28:51.889 --> 00:28:54.123
I'm doing other things areas now.
00:28:54.123 --> 00:29:10.455
And the problem is, is so many owners and so many leaders approach things without being able to display a knowledge or be a willingness to learn that they just have this buffoon, like, look about them.
00:29:10.455 --> 00:29:19.655
Um, it's the I'm always right, no matter what thing that once again, people will not follow, you know, um, they're going to undermine you.
00:29:19.655 --> 00:29:23.389
They're going to do whatever they want to.
00:29:23.389 --> 00:29:25.289
I would expect a mutiny.
00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:27.490
If you're always gonna say I'm right, do the thing.
00:29:27.490 --> 00:29:28.190
Oh, yeah.
00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:29.255
And it's it's funny.
00:29:29.255 --> 00:29:30.589
You do and you do.
00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:32.990
I don't know why people keep leaving.
00:29:32.990 --> 00:29:34.490
I don't either.
00:29:34.490 --> 00:29:40.355
And you would do just enough to cover up your tracks to be like, I'm going to do this this way anyways.
00:29:40.355 --> 00:29:40.923
Yeah.
00:29:40.923 --> 00:29:44.155
And I mean, every single time, or I don't trust them.
00:29:44.155 --> 00:29:45.556
So I'm just going to micromanage.
00:29:45.556 --> 00:29:50.222
I mean, there's so many ways that you can culture kill the micromanagement.
00:29:50.222 --> 00:29:58.923
There was huge because and once again, no understanding of what I actually did know, but would want to report of everything.
00:29:58.923 --> 00:30:03.990
And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to write a bunch of bullshit on here and be like, hey, good luck with this.
00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:05.289
Yeah, because they don't understand it.
00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:06.522
Not at all.
00:30:06.522 --> 00:30:08.722
But I scribbled on a piece of paper, so that was good.
00:30:08.722 --> 00:30:09.556
Yeah.
00:30:09.556 --> 00:30:12.322
Um, from the marketing side, yeah.
00:30:12.322 --> 00:30:24.289
There is one thing that I see so many times there is a cognitive dissonance between the brand and people's perception of the brand.
00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:24.923
Yeah.
00:30:24.923 --> 00:30:29.889
Um, it the way that I look at it like success is a shared thing.
00:30:29.889 --> 00:30:31.822
You hear me say this ad nauseam.
00:30:31.822 --> 00:30:33.889
It's it's our core value.
00:30:33.889 --> 00:30:35.755
It's it's just there.
00:30:35.755 --> 00:30:45.155
If a client wants to do an expensive, highly profitable thing that isn't a fit for their industry or goals, yes, we're going to have that honest conversation with them.
00:30:45.155 --> 00:30:47.955
Yeah, I just can't.
00:30:47.955 --> 00:30:57.955
And when you do that, you've shown that like what our culture is, what we're saying it actually is.
00:30:57.955 --> 00:30:58.855
Yes.
00:30:58.855 --> 00:31:08.289
Uh, true marketing integrity means that you're potentially turning down a sale to ensure that our core values are sticking through.
00:31:08.289 --> 00:31:11.655
I don't want to work on projects that don't fit within our core values.
00:31:11.655 --> 00:31:13.789
Yeah, it's it's tough.
00:31:13.789 --> 00:31:21.389
The thing that I like that I find so funny with this is when you walk into a bank.
00:31:21.389 --> 00:31:22.289
Yes.
00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:25.655
Every bank talks about we're customer centric.
00:31:25.655 --> 00:31:28.522
We're and I mean whole.
00:31:28.522 --> 00:31:30.490
And we care about people.
00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:37.722
And you look at every single one of those tellers and, you know, every single one of them is considering going home and taking a bath with a toaster that night.
00:31:39.655 --> 00:31:43.255
And they they are told to read these mindless scripts.
00:31:43.255 --> 00:31:44.089
They all look trapped.
00:31:44.089 --> 00:31:45.690
Yes, they all look trapped.
00:31:45.690 --> 00:31:51.423
They all I mean, they all have the same look on their face of a puppy dog in a shelter.
00:31:51.423 --> 00:31:52.822
Like please save me.
00:31:52.822 --> 00:31:53.455
Yes.
00:31:54.623 --> 00:31:56.490
Please buy this product so I can hit this quota.
00:31:56.490 --> 00:31:58.556
So they will leave me alone for another five days?
00:31:58.556 --> 00:32:00.423
Yes, one hundred percent.
00:32:00.423 --> 00:32:13.789
And I see it all like these banks market great service, but when you walk in it's scripted greetings, it's fake smiles and you don't get a genuine great service or human interaction.
00:32:13.789 --> 00:32:16.556
That's a commodity one hundred percent.
00:32:16.556 --> 00:32:18.623
Treat me like a human.
00:32:18.623 --> 00:32:26.190
I always love it when I hand them my ID and they say, oh, it's good to see you, mister.
00:32:27.655 --> 00:32:29.123
You don't know my name.
00:32:29.123 --> 00:32:30.322
That's okay.
00:32:30.322 --> 00:32:31.089
Hi.
00:32:31.089 --> 00:32:33.722
Hi. Thanks for coming in today.
00:32:33.722 --> 00:32:35.789
You don't know me from Adam.
00:32:35.789 --> 00:32:36.855
Just say hi.
00:32:36.855 --> 00:32:38.355
And thanks for coming in today.
00:32:38.355 --> 00:32:42.556
And what can I do for you and genuinely feel like.
00:32:42.556 --> 00:32:43.589
Give me some.
00:32:43.589 --> 00:32:49.722
I don't you don't need to be excited to help me, but at least be like, hey, I'm here to help you.
00:32:49.722 --> 00:32:51.722
I've got to be here for another four or five hours.
00:32:51.722 --> 00:32:52.923
So let's make the best of this.
00:32:52.923 --> 00:32:53.522
Yes.
00:32:53.522 --> 00:32:58.722
Instead of, hey, I have to read this script or I'm going to get fired.
00:32:58.722 --> 00:33:00.655
No, this.
00:33:00.655 --> 00:33:07.190
I mean, marketing says they care, but the operation, the other thing that I like is to is when marketing says they care.
00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:10.556
But then you call them and you're on hold for forty five minutes.
00:33:10.556 --> 00:33:12.123
We're customer centric.
00:33:12.123 --> 00:33:12.655
Great.
00:33:12.655 --> 00:33:13.855
We're always open.
00:33:13.855 --> 00:33:15.322
Except when we're closed, right?
00:33:15.322 --> 00:33:16.123
We're always.
00:33:16.123 --> 00:33:16.722
We're always open.
00:33:16.722 --> 00:33:19.155
You're just going to have to stand in line for an hour and a half.
00:33:19.155 --> 00:33:19.490
Yes.
00:33:19.490 --> 00:33:23.322
To me, once again, this is that culture killer.
00:33:23.322 --> 00:33:27.190
It's once again, they're not doing what they're saying.
00:33:27.190 --> 00:33:27.690
Yeah.
00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:30.690
And it's it's a huge erosion there.
00:33:30.690 --> 00:33:31.755
Yes.
00:33:31.755 --> 00:33:36.556
From that I always say operation operationalize that accountability.
00:33:36.556 --> 00:33:39.990
You've got to build those systems transparent project tracking.
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:48.522
You've got to I mean public wins and losses acknowledge when a team or process fails and acknowledge when it wins.
00:33:48.522 --> 00:33:55.423
Also, accountability is easier to handle when it's treated as a system failure rather than Bob, you done screwed up.
00:33:55.423 --> 00:33:56.222
Yes.
00:33:56.222 --> 00:34:01.589
Um, because more than likely there was something that led to Bob screwing up.
00:34:01.589 --> 00:34:03.355
Um, the other thing clear is kind.
00:34:03.355 --> 00:34:09.322
We talk about this, I believe, I believe we've talked about clear as kind of just a couple times.
00:34:09.322 --> 00:34:10.356
Just a few times.
00:34:10.356 --> 00:34:14.556
That's probably what we should have named the podcast Clear as Kind podcast.
00:34:14.556 --> 00:34:15.523
Yes.
00:34:15.523 --> 00:34:17.789
I mean, standardize how tasks are assigned.
00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:21.190
The who, the what, the where, the when, what's done.
00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:22.755
There's zero room for.
00:34:22.755 --> 00:34:27.222
I didn't know I was supposed to do that, or I didn't know what done meant or I didn't.
00:34:27.222 --> 00:34:35.155
All of those things, those any wishy washiness in those types of things define, define, define right.
00:34:35.155 --> 00:34:36.556
Those are the culture killers.
00:34:36.556 --> 00:34:45.690
They are if I don't know what one plus one is, and I just got to take a stab at it, how am I supposed to show up and think I'm working for something good here?
00:34:45.690 --> 00:34:48.222
Yeah, no you can't, I'm done.
00:34:48.222 --> 00:34:48.655
No.
00:34:48.655 --> 00:34:49.389
Exactly.
00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:51.556
It. What?
00:34:51.556 --> 00:34:56.089
Like, what do you think about hybrid stuff now?
00:34:56.089 --> 00:35:02.289
I, I don't know how you're gonna feel about this because this is going to be interesting.
00:35:02.289 --> 00:35:03.255
Yeah.
00:35:03.255 --> 00:35:07.489
How do you, like, do you got to be, like, physically around the people?
00:35:07.489 --> 00:35:10.022
No. So you think you can have culture via zoom?
00:35:10.022 --> 00:35:12.155
I think culture isn't about where you work.
00:35:12.155 --> 00:35:17.089
It's about how deeply and consistently you connect whenever or wherever you work.
00:35:17.089 --> 00:35:18.190
It's about connection.
00:35:18.190 --> 00:35:20.522
It's not about proximity.
00:35:20.522 --> 00:35:30.123
So I think it is a very easy for a lot of I would say like, oh gosh, how do I do this without like hacking off?
00:35:30.123 --> 00:35:33.322
Everyone know I'll, I'll tell you on this one, okay.
00:35:33.322 --> 00:35:37.289
I get like I just I just heard this from someone else.
00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:42.289
Someone was talking about how they have a great culture and they require everyone to be in the office.
00:35:42.289 --> 00:35:43.689
And I'm like, that's not a great culture.
00:35:43.689 --> 00:35:44.689
That's hostage.
00:35:44.689 --> 00:35:45.655
That's hostage.
00:35:45.655 --> 00:35:48.422
That's exactly it to me.
00:35:48.422 --> 00:35:53.022
It is making sure that people feel like they know what they're doing.
00:35:53.022 --> 00:35:56.889
They know why the hell they're doing it, and they feel rewarded for it.
00:35:56.889 --> 00:35:57.822
Agreed?
00:35:57.822 --> 00:35:58.089
Agreed.
00:35:58.089 --> 00:36:01.255
If you do that, it doesn't matter where the hell they are.
00:36:01.255 --> 00:36:08.522
And as long as they feel like they can pick up the phone or pick up a keyboard and get in touch with you and get a straight and honest answer.
00:36:08.522 --> 00:36:09.455
Yes.
00:36:09.455 --> 00:36:10.055
Done.
00:36:10.055 --> 00:36:10.322
Yes.
00:36:10.322 --> 00:36:10.989
That's all you need.
00:36:10.989 --> 00:36:18.289
It's quality of connection and communication that you design, and you have to be intentional in how you design it.
00:36:18.289 --> 00:36:24.989
Half of our team members work in our office inside Akron, Ohio, and the other half are in other places.
00:36:24.989 --> 00:36:29.655
And we are connected, all of us together, doing all of the things together.
00:36:29.655 --> 00:36:33.355
Because, you know, culture can thrive without physical proximity.
00:36:33.355 --> 00:36:55.155
If leaders are prioritizing psychological safety, intentional ritual rituals and norms that translate into those digital spaces, it's communication, regular check ins, consistent feedback loops, the things that we talk about all the time, whether you are in the same room, in the same office building, or you are across an ocean with someone, it is building those touchpoints.
00:36:55.155 --> 00:37:03.122
Because when leaders use tools like video intentionally, not just even for updates, but for real dialogue, trust can grow even across distance.
00:37:03.122 --> 00:37:03.655
And that's it.
00:37:03.655 --> 00:37:18.955
I feel we are more connected as a team now, just with having people spread out all over the world than we were when we all worked in the same office building at the same time, because we now have the right people in the right seats, and we're maintaining our culture.
00:37:20.022 --> 00:37:26.155
The two pieces that I want to talk about with that is, first off, is the one that the word that you said that I was like, okay, she said it.
00:37:26.155 --> 00:37:27.155
I'm good.
00:37:27.155 --> 00:37:29.422
I don't need to have the heart attack was intentional.
00:37:29.422 --> 00:37:30.122
It's intentional.
00:37:30.122 --> 00:37:33.089
You have to be very intentional about creating this environment.
00:37:33.089 --> 00:37:41.155
The second off, for me, it is the biggest thing with culture is being available and doing what you say you're going to do.
00:37:41.155 --> 00:37:42.555
Yes, that's what it takes.
00:37:42.555 --> 00:37:51.222
If if you overwhelm people and don't do what you say you're going to do and do like all these other behaviors, it doesn't matter if you're in person.
00:37:51.222 --> 00:37:51.622
It doesn't.
00:37:51.622 --> 00:37:55.689
I mean, you could you could share an office with someone.
00:37:55.689 --> 00:37:56.822
Doesn't matter.
00:37:56.822 --> 00:37:59.222
You can have a horrible culture in person.
00:37:59.222 --> 00:38:01.855
You can have a horrible culture remotely.
00:38:01.855 --> 00:38:04.355
You can have great cultures both ways, too.
00:38:04.355 --> 00:38:14.322
As long as the people feel like, hey, I am doing something, that I'm doing something and they feel good about the things that they're doing.
00:38:14.322 --> 00:38:15.089
That's all you need.
00:38:15.089 --> 00:38:16.222
Oh, I agree.
00:38:16.222 --> 00:38:20.422
Uh, this is the other one that I really want to talk to.
00:38:21.422 --> 00:38:22.389
Gossip?
00:38:22.389 --> 00:38:23.022
Yes.
00:38:25.355 --> 00:38:25.655
Yeah.
00:38:25.655 --> 00:38:26.755
What about gossip?
00:38:26.755 --> 00:38:29.622
Uh, how do you feel about gossip?
00:38:29.622 --> 00:38:33.955
Or shall we call it the rumor mill?
00:38:33.955 --> 00:38:35.022
Oh, gosh.
00:38:35.022 --> 00:38:38.355
Um, so I would say that gossip isn't the problem.
00:38:38.355 --> 00:38:42.455
It's a scoreboard that kind of tells you that something isn't clear.
00:38:42.455 --> 00:38:43.822
One hundred percent.
00:38:43.822 --> 00:38:50.189
If people are able to catastrophize things because that's what they're going to do, they can.
00:38:50.189 --> 00:38:51.089
They absolutely can.
00:38:51.089 --> 00:38:53.089
And I mean, what's going on behind closed doors?
00:38:53.089 --> 00:38:55.255
They don't feel like leadership is being transparent.
00:38:55.255 --> 00:38:59.655
They are going to create and manufacture the worst catastrophe known to man.
00:38:59.655 --> 00:39:00.089
Correct.
00:39:00.089 --> 00:39:01.055
They are correct.
00:39:01.055 --> 00:39:04.955
They fill the silence with stories and they're usually not good ones.
00:39:04.955 --> 00:39:08.289
The fire alarms may not be going off, but they smell smoke.
00:39:08.289 --> 00:39:12.789
Well, and I think a lot of times leaders think that the antidote is to ban conversation.
00:39:12.789 --> 00:39:14.122
And that's not the case.
00:39:14.122 --> 00:39:16.955
It's it's leading with transparency.
00:39:16.955 --> 00:39:18.589
No one can talk to each other.
00:39:18.589 --> 00:39:20.355
We're not going to talk about all of these things.
00:39:20.355 --> 00:39:29.955
I mean, when people understand the why behind decisions, the how of process changes and the where we're going next, there's far less room for the rumor mills to take root.
00:39:29.955 --> 00:39:32.655
So you just you got to give it daylight.
00:39:32.655 --> 00:39:34.689
You know what the funny thing is about that?
00:39:34.689 --> 00:39:36.322
We talked about launching grenades earlier.
00:39:36.322 --> 00:39:41.455
We did had a job that I had that had a very toxic culture.
00:39:41.455 --> 00:39:50.289
Um, they told me that it was illegal for me to talk about my salary, because I know I made a lot more than most of the other people there.
00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:53.622
And when they pissed me off, I posted my salary on the bulletin board.
00:39:55.922 --> 00:39:57.322
That was not a grenade.
00:39:58.822 --> 00:40:00.422
More of a bomb.
00:40:00.422 --> 00:40:03.622
A nuclear bomb in the break room.
00:40:03.622 --> 00:40:05.955
I may as well have put two middle fingers below that.
00:40:07.322 --> 00:40:09.289
You did you want to play hardball?
00:40:09.289 --> 00:40:10.022
Let's.
00:40:10.022 --> 00:40:11.955
Here we go.
00:40:11.955 --> 00:40:14.289
Um, some some.
00:40:14.289 --> 00:40:15.322
This is big deal.
00:40:15.322 --> 00:40:18.189
Um, and I know we're going to revisit culture in multiple other ways.
00:40:18.189 --> 00:40:18.589
Oh, gosh.
00:40:18.589 --> 00:40:27.322
Yeah, in future episodes, but, yeah, uh, to me, the one that I want to talk about for one of the key takeaways is that culture audit.
00:40:27.322 --> 00:40:27.889
Yeah.
00:40:27.889 --> 00:40:30.055
Take a look at your high performance.
00:40:30.055 --> 00:40:32.355
Are they also like do they fit.
00:40:32.355 --> 00:40:41.289
Are they your culture leaders or are your high performers your reasons to hightail it out of there for the rest of your staff?
00:40:41.289 --> 00:40:41.655
Yeah.
00:40:41.655 --> 00:40:42.322
Do they get it?
00:40:42.322 --> 00:40:42.955
Do they want it?
00:40:42.955 --> 00:40:44.589
Do they have the capacity for it?
00:40:44.589 --> 00:40:44.855
Yep.
00:40:44.855 --> 00:40:45.989
It's really important.
00:40:45.989 --> 00:40:48.689
I would say the next one is radical transparency.
00:40:48.689 --> 00:40:52.355
If there is a problem in the business you need to tell the team.
00:40:52.355 --> 00:40:53.522
Don't let them guess.
00:40:53.522 --> 00:40:59.522
No, no because they were they will usually guess wrong or they will guess in a really scary direction.
00:40:59.522 --> 00:41:01.555
They will guess their way out the door.
00:41:01.555 --> 00:41:10.355
I mean, yeah, no, I, I have a great example of that that just, uh, ended up on, uh, from a friend of mine.
00:41:10.355 --> 00:41:20.222
Um, the other day, that's like, literally an entire company was just shocked by something that had happened, and I was like, that's going to cripple it for the future.
00:41:20.222 --> 00:41:22.822
Oh, no. Yep.
00:41:22.822 --> 00:41:24.355
Uh, what's the last one for you?
00:41:24.355 --> 00:41:26.255
I would say reward the right behaviors.
00:41:26.255 --> 00:41:26.622
Yeah.
00:41:26.622 --> 00:41:28.955
So you stop just rewarding the what?
00:41:28.955 --> 00:41:34.655
The sales and the outputs, and you really start rewarding the how, the collaboration, the showing of values.
00:41:34.655 --> 00:41:38.689
Because, you know, it's about how we move forward together.
00:41:38.689 --> 00:41:47.489
And that's really one of the, the easiest ways to disarm and disable your brilliant jerks is really to just, you know, reward the how.
00:41:47.489 --> 00:41:49.755
It's really important in how you got there.
00:41:49.755 --> 00:41:51.589
Thank you for the work that you've done.
00:41:51.589 --> 00:41:52.755
You've accomplished this.
00:41:52.755 --> 00:41:55.455
But what I'm really excited about is how you did it.
00:41:55.455 --> 00:41:55.855
Yeah.
00:41:55.855 --> 00:41:59.289
To me, it's that the, uh.
00:41:59.289 --> 00:42:01.622
There's not a journey to happiness.
00:42:01.622 --> 00:42:03.689
No, happiness is the journey.
00:42:03.689 --> 00:42:08.689
And if you reward the pieces along that, you're going to get to the destination.
00:42:08.689 --> 00:42:09.189
Yeah.
00:42:09.189 --> 00:42:10.855
That's all there is to it.
00:42:10.855 --> 00:42:13.222
Uh. Unlimited PTO?
00:42:13.222 --> 00:42:13.922
Yes.
00:42:13.922 --> 00:42:15.455
Love it or hate it?
00:42:15.455 --> 00:42:20.222
Um, I would say it's not my favorite thing.
00:42:20.222 --> 00:42:21.122
I don't like it.
00:42:21.122 --> 00:42:21.622
I don't either.
00:42:21.622 --> 00:42:22.822
I don't, I don't.
00:42:22.822 --> 00:42:26.722
And what I would say, you know, it's unlimited PTO sounds really progressive.
00:42:26.722 --> 00:42:28.655
It's like we have unlimited PTO.
00:42:28.655 --> 00:42:39.055
But if you do not give clear expectations and you don't model what taking a break looks like, as a business owner, it often turns into unlimited guilt.
00:42:39.055 --> 00:42:43.789
So employees don't know what's acceptable so they take less time off, not more time.
00:42:43.789 --> 00:42:45.622
They don't know how to schedule their time.
00:42:45.622 --> 00:42:48.622
I think unlimited PTO doesn't create trust.
00:42:48.622 --> 00:42:50.489
Clear leadership does.
00:42:50.489 --> 00:42:51.922
And giving guardrails.
00:42:51.922 --> 00:42:53.689
Guardrails are good for team members.
00:42:53.689 --> 00:42:55.589
Employees love guardrails.
00:42:55.589 --> 00:42:58.089
They love to know I can earn this much PTO.
00:42:58.089 --> 00:43:01.589
This is the expectation I am also a proponent of.
00:43:01.589 --> 00:43:06.789
You must take a minimum of one week away from this organization every year.
00:43:06.789 --> 00:43:23.922
And in some organizations, especially if you're dealing with, you know, point of failure within organizations or you're dealing with finances, there's a mandate, especially within, like the banking industry, where they have to take one week completely off because that enables people to see from stem to stern how they do their job.
00:43:23.922 --> 00:43:26.489
And it also makes sure that there's no corruption or no issues.
00:43:26.489 --> 00:43:27.055
Yep.
00:43:27.055 --> 00:43:27.955
Makes sense.
00:43:27.955 --> 00:43:30.355
Uh. Job interviews?
00:43:30.355 --> 00:43:31.522
Yeah.
00:43:31.522 --> 00:43:33.389
What's a red flag you look for?
00:43:33.389 --> 00:43:34.055
Whether it's.
00:43:34.055 --> 00:43:34.989
And I guess.
00:43:34.989 --> 00:43:36.655
Let's do this this way.
00:43:36.655 --> 00:43:40.655
What's a red flag that you look for when hiring people?
00:43:40.655 --> 00:43:41.122
Yes.
00:43:41.122 --> 00:43:42.089
And I'll cover.
00:43:42.089 --> 00:43:43.189
What's the red flag?
00:43:43.189 --> 00:43:43.389
That.
00:43:43.389 --> 00:43:46.989
Because I think I've been on a few more job interviews than you have.
00:43:46.989 --> 00:43:48.455
Probably.
00:43:48.455 --> 00:43:48.955
I've had.
00:43:48.955 --> 00:43:52.155
I've had a few, but it's a little bit different, right?
00:43:52.155 --> 00:43:57.255
Um, if they have never learned from a failure, they're about to repeat one.
00:43:57.255 --> 00:43:57.855
Yep.
00:43:57.855 --> 00:44:06.022
So that's my big one, is how someone talks about accountability, especially when things went wrong if every past job has failed them.
00:44:06.022 --> 00:44:07.322
Every boss was the problem.
00:44:07.322 --> 00:44:09.022
They can't name a single lesson that they learned.
00:44:09.022 --> 00:44:10.955
That is a huge red flag for me.
00:44:12.322 --> 00:44:15.389
It's the same thing for me on the other side of the table.
00:44:15.389 --> 00:44:17.289
What's the business struggling with now?
00:44:17.289 --> 00:44:19.855
If they say no, no, no, no, things are great.
00:44:20.922 --> 00:44:22.089
Run like hell.
00:44:22.089 --> 00:44:24.522
Run like hell.
00:44:24.522 --> 00:44:26.455
The other thing that I always ask too is like what?
00:44:26.455 --> 00:44:30.222
Like, what are you doing to create the culture in your business?
00:44:30.222 --> 00:44:37.789
I asked that specifically at this point because it is a like, what are you doing to create the culture?
00:44:37.789 --> 00:44:44.789
If they can't tell you intentional things or if they tell you what, we've got this great pool table and ping pong table and all this other stuff.
00:44:44.789 --> 00:44:47.222
Yeah, that those are signs to run, signs to run.
00:44:47.222 --> 00:44:52.855
And then as you're interviewing your potential clients, you're asking them the key things that you need within your organization to.
00:44:52.855 --> 00:44:53.855
Because I interview a lot.
00:44:53.855 --> 00:45:06.389
I don't necessarily get interviewed for jobs, but I do interview a lot of clients and potential clients, and I need to know that they're coachable and open to change, and if they are not able to to exhibit those qualities in our initial couple of conversations.
00:45:06.389 --> 00:45:10.655
We don't follow up to see if they want to be a client anymore, because we know it's going to be a disaster.
00:45:10.655 --> 00:45:12.855
We have started doing the same thing on the marketing side.
00:45:12.855 --> 00:45:15.089
Like we we want to work together.
00:45:15.089 --> 00:45:17.422
Um, we want this to be collaborative.
00:45:17.422 --> 00:45:20.655
Um, we're not you're we're not your bitch.
00:45:20.655 --> 00:45:25.055
No, we're we're going to work together to make your business better.
00:45:25.055 --> 00:45:28.089
And we've had a couple clients that have said, like, well, we want to do it this way or prospects.
00:45:28.089 --> 00:45:33.189
And we're like, well, you're going to do it wrong, but well, okay, well we'll see how this works.
00:45:33.189 --> 00:45:34.155
It's not going to go well.
00:45:34.155 --> 00:45:37.022
I got a question though for you about social issues.
00:45:37.022 --> 00:45:37.389
Yeah.
00:45:37.389 --> 00:45:37.822
All right.
00:45:37.822 --> 00:45:44.689
So should companies take public stances on social issues or does that kill internal culture if you need to go ahead.
00:45:44.689 --> 00:46:06.055
But most of the time, if you look deep, there's no reason to um, I really I mean, if look, if you're, if you work, if you're if you're the Democratic Party of America, then you kind of have to you kind of have to beyond that, if your religious institution or you're taking a significant moral or economic stance.
00:46:06.055 --> 00:46:07.655
Yes, all of those things.
00:46:07.655 --> 00:46:08.289
Sure.
00:46:08.289 --> 00:46:13.722
But Goodyear sell tires, sell insurance, claridar do fractionally sharp podcasting.
00:46:13.722 --> 00:46:19.489
Go to pedal stomper like no, you don't need one hundred percent no. And that's the it's so funny.
00:46:19.489 --> 00:46:26.255
There's a there's a client that we work with that if you even mention politics.
00:46:26.255 --> 00:46:27.189
You see him.
00:46:27.189 --> 00:46:29.222
His face doesn't change at all.
00:46:29.222 --> 00:46:30.589
His mouth will not open.
00:46:30.589 --> 00:46:31.589
Exactly.
00:46:31.589 --> 00:46:32.789
We're very similar.
00:46:32.789 --> 00:46:33.055
Yeah.
00:46:33.055 --> 00:46:34.022
It's we have to be.
00:46:34.022 --> 00:46:34.589
Yeah.
00:46:34.589 --> 00:46:35.722
Yep.
00:46:35.722 --> 00:46:42.789
That all being said, we're going to talk next week about and I, I love this one.
00:46:42.789 --> 00:46:44.722
From an operations standpoint.
00:46:44.722 --> 00:46:48.055
Are you being flexible or are you just inconsistent?
00:46:48.055 --> 00:46:51.355
Are consistency is a key to leadership?
00:46:51.355 --> 00:46:52.455
One hundred percent.
00:46:52.455 --> 00:46:56.689
If once again, if I'm walking into a shitstorm, I want to know which way the wind is blowing.
00:46:56.689 --> 00:47:00.455
If I at least have an idea if it's out of the North, I feel good.
00:47:01.489 --> 00:47:06.889
If you need more information, if you want to find the next episode business Podcast.com.
00:47:06.889 --> 00:47:07.889
Go there.
00:47:07.889 --> 00:47:09.555
Hang out for a while.
00:47:09.555 --> 00:47:11.289
It's where all the cool kids are hanging out.
00:47:11.289 --> 00:47:11.855
Did you know that?
00:47:11.855 --> 00:47:12.155
Yes.
00:47:12.155 --> 00:47:12.689
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:12.689 --> 00:47:14.355
I'm there, you're there, we're cool.
00:47:14.355 --> 00:47:15.989
Well, really?
00:47:15.989 --> 00:47:16.889
We're cool.
00:47:16.889 --> 00:47:18.322
I've decided.
00:47:18.322 --> 00:47:19.522
Just got promoted.
00:47:19.522 --> 00:47:21.322
Look at that.
00:47:21.322 --> 00:47:22.855
Also, do us a favor.
00:47:22.855 --> 00:47:26.189
Hit the business fix on all the social media platforms.
00:47:26.189 --> 00:47:28.155
We'd really appreciate that.
00:47:28.155 --> 00:47:28.955
And a review.
00:47:28.955 --> 00:47:30.722
As always, do me a favor.
00:47:30.722 --> 00:47:31.355
Take care of yourself.
00:47:31.355 --> 00:47:32.989
If you can take care of someone else too.
00:47:32.989 --> 00:47:36.322
We will see you very, very soon.