What if the pain you’ve been avoiding is actually pointing you toward healing? with Alexis Leigh | EP 472

WEBVTT
00:01:15.540 --> 00:01:17.400
Close your eyes and imagine.
00:01:18.379 --> 00:01:24.900
What if the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges?
00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:31.400
Challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be.
00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:33.840
We feel like we've been buried.
00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.480
But what if, like a seed, we've been planted?
00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:42.079
And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree.
00:01:43.219 --> 00:01:45.240
Now, open your eyes.
00:01:45.859 --> 00:01:47.800
Open your eyes to this way of viewing life.
00:01:48.500 --> 00:01:52.960
Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature.
00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:55.480
This is grief to growth.
00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:58.280
And I am your host, Brian Smith.
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.180
I'm Brian Smith and welcome to grief to growth.
00:02:02.300 --> 00:02:07.759
So whether this is your first time tuning in, you've been walking on this path with us for a while, I'm grateful that you're here.
00:02:08.139 --> 00:02:14.980
The show exists to help you navigate life's deepest challenges, to better understand who we are, why we're here and where we go from here.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:20.800
Each episode is an invitation to explore healing, purpose and the deeper truths that connect us all.
00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.340
Today's conversation is one I don't think you're going to want to miss.
00:02:24.460 --> 00:02:25.639
I'm joined by Alexis Lee.
00:02:26.259 --> 00:02:31.939
Alexis is a writer, a seeker and an advocate for radical self healing through unconventional means.
00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:41.219
Alexa left behind a successful career in finance and consulting to follow an inner calling, one sparked by a mysterious message she received on a walk through the woods.
00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:47.000
That moment became a doorway into a life rooted in authenticity, transformation and courage.
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:54.060
Her first book is titled a pain pain is a portal of beauty, and it dives into the often avoided terrain of pain.
00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:59.819
And just as how when we stop running from it, pain can become a profound source of growth and meaning.
00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:10.240
In our conversation, we'll explore how psychedelics played a role in Alexis healing journey, the power of deep emotional work, and why our culture's obsession with avoiding pain might be keeping us stuck.
00:03:10.740 --> 00:03:21.460
So if you've ever felt like your struggle was too heavy to carry, if you question whether your pain had a purpose, or whether you're just curious about what lies beyond the limits of conventional healing, this episode is for you.
00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:23.240
So stick around to the end.
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:26.300
And if the conversation speaks to you, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
00:03:26.699 --> 00:03:36.219
So jump on over my sub stack grief to growth that sub stack calm, where I'll be posting an article about this episode, you can leave a comment, you can share your own story.
00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.640
And you can connect with me and with other listeners.
00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:40.740
So let's keep the conversation going.
00:03:40.860 --> 00:03:42.659
And with that, I want to welcome Alexis Lee.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:44.099
Thanks, Brian.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:44.740
So great.
00:03:44.979 --> 00:03:45.780
What a lovely introduction.
00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:47.039
Great to be here with you.
00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:48.860
Yeah, it's great to be here with you too.
00:03:48.979 --> 00:03:55.099
And we're going to talk about some things today that, you know, make make some people uncomfortable pain being, you know, the main thing here.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:01.680
So I know you, your story, I don't know if it begins with but kind of pivots around, I guess, a walk in the woods.
00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:03.099
So let's start with that.
00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:11.780
Yeah, this was about five and a half years ago, I was walking in the woods one day and just listening to instrumental music.
00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:17.060
And I heard a voice that said, if you die today, your life will have been a tragedy.
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:25.699
And it really, you know, struck so deeply to the truth of my experience.
00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:32.220
And I, I didn't know what the voice was, I didn't know, you know, just was kind of like, it just became clear to me that that was true.
00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:38.720
And, and everything from that moment shifted, I, I saw the reality of how pained I was.
00:04:38.980 --> 00:04:41.659
I mean, I don't think I saw the extent of it, but I began to see it.
00:04:42.460 --> 00:04:50.360
And every step I took after that was informed by this new awareness of my sadness and my loneliness.
00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:51.659
Yeah.
00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:56.519
And what do you what does it What did it mean to you that your life would have been a tragedy if you had died today?
00:04:56.960 --> 00:05:12.360
I think what it really just let me see is just how, you know, I had, I had all of the things in life, I had a lovely husband, we had a beautiful, healthy son, I had a good career, friends, family, I had all you know, everything that I wanted for myself I had.
00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:21.080
And so it so from an external picture, it seems like a life that wouldn't be tragic, a life that would be exactly what I wanted a successful life.
00:05:21.340 --> 00:05:29.159
And what this message helped me see was that if I died that day, I would have lived a very lonely life and a very sad life.
00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:36.359
And it would be a really tragic life, it would be a really something that I wouldn't want for myself or for anybody.
00:05:36.359 --> 00:05:44.299
So just helps me become honest about really the essence of my life, not these external pieces, but the reality of my internal experience.
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:45.059
Okay.
00:05:45.259 --> 00:05:47.080
And what did what did you do with that information?
00:05:49.679 --> 00:05:52.399
Well, I'm not a whole lot quickly, right.
00:05:52.419 --> 00:05:53.779
So it's just kind of taking it in.
00:05:53.799 --> 00:06:04.200
But what happened, you know, my, my co parents and I and my ex husband and I were in counseling, you know what, it wasn't like I was super happy and realized I was sad.
00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:06.820
I was like, I was trying to find more love and connection in my life.
00:06:07.460 --> 00:06:13.139
And so I think my marriage was where I felt that most, where I wanted more love and connection.
00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:18.960
And, and I really thought that if we kept working at it, you know, we were in therapy for years.
00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:20.639
So I thought, we'll get there someday.
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:24.720
And this, this voice said, you're not going to get there, like what you're doing is not working.
00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:34.120
So I think with my marriage was the biggest piece where I started to become less patient, less, you know, going with what our therapist told us, if we keep doing this, you know, things will change.
00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.759
I started saying things like square peg round hole, like this isn't working, getting really honest about the pieces that weren't working.
00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:52.360
And with that honesty, you know, came, came transformation, ultimately, my, my ex husband and I separated and 18 months later, decided to, to get a divorce.
00:06:52.379 --> 00:06:55.000
So that was the biggest first change.
00:06:55.139 --> 00:06:57.759
Other pieces came to but that was the most important one.
00:06:57.779 --> 00:07:01.080
I mean, I didn't, I loved my husband, I didn't want to let go of our family.
00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:05.480
That was the scariest change in the most painful change for me.
00:07:05.679 --> 00:07:06.899
But that was the first one.
00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:08.500
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:13.179
So this voice is telling you that, you know, it's time to make some changes.
00:07:13.179 --> 00:07:15.279
And you said it began with your marriage.
00:07:15.460 --> 00:07:16.860
What other changes did you make?
00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:26.100
Well, I guess it began with a marriage in terms of the external picture, but what I knew immediately, I don't know how I knew this, but I knew that I needed, I needed to start grieving.
00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:34.879
So I had this childhood, you know, pain that I had been trying to unpack, but it wasn't, I knew that there was more and I needed to up those efforts.
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.360
So I just started going on walks, listening to sad music and crying.
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.840
And I, again, I didn't really know why I was doing it.
00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:47.419
I just knew, even in therapy, I you know, it's like, it was hard for me to really go to that deep place with somebody else.
00:07:47.799 --> 00:07:49.600
So this is important to do by myself.
00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:51.940
And one day I was walking in the woods.
00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.600
Sorry, I was walking into another set of woods.
00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:03.120
And I saw this picture of my grandfather who died by suicide and my mother who was a drug addict, and they found her body in a field.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:04.659
So very tragic demise there.
00:08:05.019 --> 00:08:14.879
And my 40 years of heartache and loneliness, and then the life that awaited my son and I just saw this such such a clear trajectory that this is what this is where we're headed if I don't make a big change.
00:08:15.059 --> 00:08:18.299
So there are these external pieces that then followed that clarity.
00:08:18.299 --> 00:08:28.100
But that I would say that was the biggest, you know, piece was for me to really slow down and start trying to understand the sadness, understand the loneliness, instead of running away from it.
00:08:28.159 --> 00:08:30.220
For so long, I just I didn't want to feel that way.
00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:33.480
So I filled my life with things to try to help me not feel that way.
00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:38.360
But I knew now I had to start actually embracing the pain and understanding it more.
00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:44.679
Did you feel like there was maybe was there generational sadness that was being carried throughout your family?
00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:48.460
I wasn't clear about that.
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.840
You know, I had read books about that, you know, it didn't start with you those kinds of books.
00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:56.080
And so I was certainly open to that.
00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:02.799
For me, you know, I had so much trauma in my own life that I felt like there was plenty to unpack just from my experience.
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.000
But I know we'll talk more about this at some point during the conversation.
00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:16.500
But ultimately, when during one of my psychedelic journeys, I did see that I was carrying my mother's, my mother's grief, and my grandfather's grief in my body.
00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:18.779
So I did connect with that more later.
00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:30.740
But at the beginning, it was more just seeing their sadness that then spreads just because, you know, when my grandfather died, then my mother carried the grief just from her experience of his death and the way he left, right.
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:37.600
And then, and then she had her very dramatic experience that impacted me deeply.
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:42.559
So it's kind of, I felt like it was isolated enough, there was enough isolated, right.
00:09:42.700 --> 00:09:46.799
But ultimately, I did see that current running through where I actually had their grief in my body.
00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:47.500
Okay.
00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:56.600
And you talked about this, this, after you had this voice, and you said you started, I guess, grieving, you know, something that had happened long before.
00:09:57.019 --> 00:10:02.919
And I know, in my work with people, grief is something I think that we have to just kind of kind of go through and feel.
00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:08.079
And do you think this was like a delayed thing that you didn't grieve it properly when it happened earlier?
00:10:08.529 --> 00:10:09.759
Yeah, definitely.
00:10:10.079 --> 00:10:18.000
I mean, I, you know, my mom was depressed, and then she became addicted to prescription drugs, and then ultimately went away to rehab.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.480
And then they found her body in a field.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.220
So I had this kind of layers of loss with her.
00:10:23.459 --> 00:10:29.799
And I was 11, when she left home 12, when she died, you know, younger than that, obviously, when she was home, but not present.
00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:31.600
So there was so much there.
00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:33.720
And I that I didn't have the resources to deal with.
00:10:33.819 --> 00:10:42.279
And there was a moment when we actually we went to visit her at rehab, the story was that she was going to go away for three weeks, and then come back home.
00:10:43.079 --> 00:10:44.620
And it took longer than that.
00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:45.399
And then we visited her.
00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:49.079
And when we left, I there was something in my body that knew this isn't coming back together.
00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:53.860
So that was a moment where my where my body just started numbing.
00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:56.720
So I had, again, I'm sure I was coping along the way.
00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.240
But that was a moment when the heartbreak was too much.
00:10:59.259 --> 00:11:00.120
And I stopped feeling.
00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:01.199
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:03.220
I think that this was something that I couldn't feel.
00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:05.459
And I packed it away until I was 38 years old.
00:11:05.459 --> 00:11:07.620
And my body said, Okay, it's time now.
00:11:07.899 --> 00:11:08.799
It's time to look at this.
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:09.379
Yeah.
00:11:09.939 --> 00:11:15.279
And that the voice that you heard, what do you have you identified what this voice is, or where it came from?
00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:24.720
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think for a long time, I kind of thought it was something, obviously, it's something bigger than me in the way I've known myself.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.360
But I kind of liked the idea that it was somebody else.
00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.539
Because it just felt like, almost like I had that support.
00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:33.379
But ultimately, I believe that it was my body's wisdom.
00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:42.100
And that my body, you know, it's, I was not in my body for most of my life, because of this pain, I escaped that.
00:11:42.259 --> 00:11:44.879
So I was in my brain, but not feeling my own wisdom.
00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:49.139
And I think it was, it was my higher knowing my intuition.
00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:51.459
Of course, everything is connected.
00:11:51.459 --> 00:11:56.120
But you know, I do think it was, it was something that was in me that said, we can do this now.
00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.799
So it's time now, you know, I had been doing these efforts, I thought I was making so many efforts with therapy and all of this stuff.
00:12:01.899 --> 00:12:05.439
But the voice really was saying, you got to go bigger.
00:12:06.079 --> 00:12:07.179
Yeah, it's not working.
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:08.279
What you're doing is not working.
00:12:08.659 --> 00:12:08.879
Yeah.
00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:14.459
So you were doing the things you were you were in therapy, and you were all the things that I need to do.
00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:22.779
And it and it, you know, got me to a place where, again, I heard this statement that said everything was absolutely a failure, right?
00:12:22.779 --> 00:12:26.779
Like if your life's if your life's a tragedy, it's not saying a couple things need to be tweaked.
00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:28.579
It's like everything's not going well.
00:12:29.079 --> 00:12:36.799
So it really encouraged me again, my son was a little was my North Star here, where of course, I wanted a better life for me for sure.
00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:41.019
But I, I desperately wanted to change our trajectory for him.
00:12:41.419 --> 00:12:50.000
And so it was so clear that I had to do big things, I had to do whatever I could, I had to stop listening to other people.
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.480
I mean, there's so much where we there's so much noise in the world.
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:53.959
And it's not that other people are wrong.
00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:56.139
It's just that only we know what's right for us.
00:12:56.439 --> 00:13:06.139
And so I had to learn how to listen to myself and to follow what felt right to me, instead of what a book told me to do, or what a therapist told me to do, or, you know, those kinds of things.
00:13:06.819 --> 00:13:07.980
Yeah, I think that's very true.
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:15.419
We so often look for answers, you know, outside of ourselves, we'll go, we'll go to a book, or as you said, we'll go, we'll go to a therapist and what other people.
00:13:16.439 --> 00:13:19.199
So you, you started making these changes.
00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.939
How did that work out for you as you were making all these changes?
00:13:25.459 --> 00:13:37.439
Well, um, it was very hard, of course, you know, I loved my it's like I had the grief from a childhood to wake up to but then I had the grief of losing basically everything in my life and my marriage was the most important piece.
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.899
But then my relationships with my family also fell away around the same time.
00:13:42.079 --> 00:13:50.620
And I knew that my consulting practice was not really my long term meant to be and so I started letting loosening my grip on my work.
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.100
friendships fell away, I mean, everything fell away.
00:15:02.129 --> 00:15:12.649
And so it was a period of aloneness, and deep grief, both in what I was revisiting from my childhood, but also losing all these pieces that I loved in my life.
00:15:14.050 --> 00:15:19.230
And that was really, you know, incredibly painful.
00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:25.870
But also, I started to wake up like my I started to come alive, you know, there are things like I started to do dance.
00:15:26.129 --> 00:15:31.789
When I when I went through such a hard time, I was really focused on how to balance that, right, because I'm a mom and I have to show up.
00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:35.310
So what do I need to do to take care of myself so I can still show up for my son.
00:15:35.850 --> 00:15:37.810
And so that was going for runs in the forest.
00:15:37.810 --> 00:15:42.970
And it was going, you know, paddleboarding on the river and going to dance class and doing all these things that really fed my soul.
00:15:43.289 --> 00:15:47.570
So as painful as it was, it also was a really beautiful time of reconnecting with me.
00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:53.930
And, and, you know, filling myself up with all these things that really brought me to life.
00:15:54.389 --> 00:15:54.610
Yeah.
00:15:55.190 --> 00:15:57.370
So you mentioned your consulting practice.
00:15:57.730 --> 00:16:03.690
And, you know, so, you know, you talked about losing a lot of things that we think of as, as maybe our even our identities, right?
00:16:03.810 --> 00:16:12.370
Being a mother being a wife, you don't use your son, of course, but being a wife and having this consulting practice, did that give you another thing to grieve?
00:16:15.269 --> 00:16:21.690
And, you know, I think what's so I think there was so much to grieve there.
00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:25.129
But there was so much that started to uncover.
00:16:25.350 --> 00:16:35.190
And that's why, you know, the book is called pain is a portal to beauty, where I started to discover these really essence parts of me that I had lost touch with for so long.
00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:41.810
I mean, I always thought that I was so devastated for losing my mom, and I was, but when I numbed, I lost myself.
00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:45.289
And so this really was a time where I was letting go of these pieces.
00:16:45.289 --> 00:16:46.250
And that's terrifying.
00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:50.590
And, you know, typically, my experience is that when you let go of something, you don't get the replacement yet.
00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:55.610
So you are sitting in this place of just goo is how I felt for a long time.
00:16:56.850 --> 00:17:03.269
But then you start to discover, you know, I discovered dance as an adult, and I discovered that I was a singer.
00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:05.509
And ultimately, I thought I was a terrible writer.
00:17:05.669 --> 00:17:08.909
And during one of my periods of grief, this book started coming through me.
00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:23.609
And so I had these incredible, you know, to go from a life that was so sad, as much as it was hard to let go of things, I was also, I didn't have so much to lose in that way, because I did feel so, so deeply lonely.
00:17:24.069 --> 00:17:29.289
And when I read it is we discovered parts of myself, I, I didn't feel lonely anymore, right?
00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:32.089
Like, these core wounds started to be healed.
00:17:32.269 --> 00:17:35.889
And, and so I don't mean to say it was an easy time.
00:17:35.970 --> 00:17:43.629
It was incredibly painful, but it was also so beautiful and enlivening in a way that I really don't remember during my life.
00:17:44.149 --> 00:17:45.069
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:45.149 --> 00:17:55.789
Well, that's the that's the paradox, I guess, or the irony about having to lean into our pain to get the lesson from or to get the beauty from it.
00:17:56.129 --> 00:18:00.690
Because naturally, I think biologically, we're wired to avoid pain.
00:18:01.349 --> 00:18:09.569
And we're and we're in, you know, people say, just, you know, buckle down or buckle up and just, you know, strap in and go through it and endure it.
00:18:09.669 --> 00:18:12.789
But there has become a point where you become brutally honest with yourself.
00:18:12.869 --> 00:18:14.629
And it sounds like that's what you did.
00:18:15.609 --> 00:18:16.009
Yeah.
00:18:16.269 --> 00:18:24.450
And, you know, for me, there were all these, there's, you know, internal family systems where we have these parts of ourselves that get traumatized at the various ages based on what we went through.
00:18:24.769 --> 00:18:34.289
And so when I'm just coping with everything, I don't know any of those parts of me, I don't know any of that grief in me, because I'm numbing, and I'm, you know, just completely unaware.
00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:42.569
And as much as it's painful to go there, we're carrying that pain, even if we don't know, even if we're not aware of it.
00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:54.169
And so when I would, when I would discover a young part of me that needed love, and to need it needed to be understood for what she went through, or to feel the feelings that I couldn't feel, then, then that part feels so soothed and so loved.
00:18:54.329 --> 00:19:00.369
And, and what happens is, that's when I discover I'm a writer or a dancer, some of these things kind of come alive with that part.
00:19:00.369 --> 00:19:09.169
So there's, there's this really beautiful, you know, it's like, you don't, you didn't know how much you were hurting until you, you go toward it.
00:19:09.169 --> 00:19:11.190
And then you can get to the other side.
00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:13.389
Yeah, yeah, really good point.
00:19:13.490 --> 00:19:18.089
For people that aren't familiar, could you familiarize them with internal family systems?
00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:28.389
Yeah, so this is something that my therapist introduced me to years ago, and she just introduced me to the, the idea that I have a little Alexis in me.
00:19:28.649 --> 00:19:31.369
And so there's a little Alexis that went through something really hard.
00:19:31.809 --> 00:19:37.250
And when I have these feelings, then it's that little part of me wanting my attention or my help or something.
00:19:37.688 --> 00:19:42.428
And so I thought that was kind of awkward, because she would have me kind of put my hand on my heart and talk to this little part of me.
00:19:42.468 --> 00:19:45.750
And I was like, gosh, I'm, I'm two versions of me like this is, I thought it was awkward.
00:19:46.208 --> 00:19:58.049
But I started to do it, I started to because I think also, when you don't know, when you don't have that sweetness for yourself, it's, you know, it can be really hard to be compassionate for to yourself for what you went through, especially as an adult, it's like, I should have my stuff together, right?
00:19:58.069 --> 00:19:59.469
Like, why am I having these issues?
00:19:59.829 --> 00:19:59.990
Right.
00:20:00.469 --> 00:20:01.849
But I started to try it out.
00:20:01.949 --> 00:20:08.769
And I thought, okay, you know, can I picture some other little girl who lost her mom, and that's sad, and I can be sweet to that little girl.
00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.729
So can I kind of borrow from that and treat myself sweetly.
00:20:12.009 --> 00:20:23.929
And so it kind of started to develop a relationship between between me and this little part again, internal family systems is like you have these parts of yourself that went through something traumatic, they couldn't process it at that time.
00:20:24.109 --> 00:20:25.089
That's what trauma is, right?
00:20:25.109 --> 00:20:28.429
Like it kind of, it's something that was beyond their capacity to handle.
00:20:28.929 --> 00:20:32.089
And so they're stuck, there's stuck energy there, basically.
00:20:32.629 --> 00:20:47.929
And when you can go relate to these parts of you as those stuck, the stuck energy as little, you know, innocent children that went through something, then that energy actually becomes unstuck, and it can start to move in places where you feel stuck as an adult, you don't know why you keep doing things a certain way.
00:20:48.229 --> 00:20:57.669
Well, when you can turn toward yourself with compassion and love, then those things start to move in a way where you don't have the same issues anymore, because you're, you're acknowledging this part of you.
00:20:58.149 --> 00:21:02.329
And you're sending love to that stuck energy, which again, lets it move.
00:21:02.669 --> 00:21:09.709
So what I thought there was a little Alexis and a big Alexis, and so you have kind of your higher adult self that can do this for your, your little child.
00:21:09.709 --> 00:21:17.429
But as I was going through this huge grief process, after my co parent moved out of the house, I found out I have many little Alexis.
00:21:17.969 --> 00:21:21.929
It's like, one was angry from this thing, and one is sad from this thing.
00:21:21.949 --> 00:21:24.509
And one is fearful from this thing, like they have different needs.
00:21:24.529 --> 00:21:34.509
And so it can be a lot if you have a lot stored, like I did, it can be a lot to navigate where you're trying to be sweet to all these ones, you know, you kind of have to pick the one with the most urgent need and be sweet to them.
00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:36.549
And the others have to be patient and wait till you have time.
00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:41.189
So it's, it is like a parenting process where you go to these little parts.
00:21:41.189 --> 00:21:43.309
And you say, Well, you know, how can I care for you right now?
00:21:43.569 --> 00:21:45.649
So there's a parenting in terms of giving to them.
00:21:45.729 --> 00:21:55.209
But there's also they, these little parts, again, they have stored with them these gifts from our childhood, you know, the pieces that had to go to sleep with them.
00:21:55.709 --> 00:22:01.129
And so they also these parts can can offer such exquisite gifts when we come toward them as well.
00:22:01.649 --> 00:22:03.209
Yeah, thanks for thanks for explanation.
00:22:03.469 --> 00:22:07.189
I've been hearing more about this, you know, as I've gotten older.
00:22:07.490 --> 00:22:09.909
And I think it's a really good model.
00:22:10.250 --> 00:22:16.990
It seems to be very helpful for people to understand these different parts of ourselves, even though they're I don't think they're literal parts of ourselves.
00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:19.449
But it's just a good way of looking at it.
00:22:19.709 --> 00:22:29.509
Because so many of us don't realize that we were we were wounded or the ways that we were wounded, because we don't take the time to, to take care or even know that we have permission to take care of ourselves.
00:22:29.929 --> 00:22:30.169
Right?
00:22:31.009 --> 00:22:39.189
Yeah, I mean, I recently just as a kind of gentle example, I recently felt loneliness one day, and my son was with his dad and my house was quiet.
00:22:39.349 --> 00:22:43.929
And I immediately went to Okay, what am I how am I going to fill my time?
00:22:44.029 --> 00:22:46.069
Or what do I do to basically not be lonely.
00:22:46.389 --> 00:22:52.609
But then something in me realizes loneliness was a part of me a young part that was sharing how lonely I was as a kid.
00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:58.869
And as soon as I realized it wasn't this adult me experience, it was a kid me experience, then I could be really sweet to go.
00:22:59.429 --> 00:23:03.829
Oh, yeah, that's so hard, you know, and it became a really beautiful experience.
00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:04.089
One.
00:23:04.449 --> 00:23:09.329
Again, when I thought it was just me as this adult, it's like, what do I do to change this to kind of go away from it?
00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:09.689
Right?
00:23:09.789 --> 00:23:13.509
Once you realize it's your young experience, and you can just go, yeah, that's so hard.
00:23:13.949 --> 00:23:14.129
Yeah.
00:23:14.229 --> 00:23:18.569
And it's, and it, it feels so soothing to hear that from yourself, right?
00:23:18.609 --> 00:23:21.309
To hear that from your adult self to Yeah.
00:23:21.569 --> 00:23:30.449
And I think we can be a lot more patient when we view it as a younger version of herself, you know, as opposed to, as you said, I think earlier, just, you know, I shouldn't be feeling this.
00:23:30.569 --> 00:23:33.209
I'm an adult, I should have all this together by now.
00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:34.069
Right.
00:23:35.609 --> 00:23:43.109
So I know that at some point in your journey, you also started using psychedelics to help you in terms of uncovering, I guess, some of this pain.
00:23:43.169 --> 00:23:44.809
So tell me about those experiences.
00:23:45.969 --> 00:23:46.329
Yeah.
00:23:46.349 --> 00:23:53.689
And I think that's, you know, as you were talking about losing the identities, I think that's another part that was so rich for me, I just happened upon psychedelics.
00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:55.089
I, my mother was a drug addict.
00:23:55.229 --> 00:23:57.129
So I didn't choose struggled with addiction.
00:23:57.129 --> 00:24:02.549
So I didn't ever want to do drugs, like it was very much like not in my world.
00:24:02.929 --> 00:24:10.949
But I started creating, I was approached to create a business plan for this educational institution that trains psychedelic guides.
00:24:11.229 --> 00:24:14.609
So I just got to expose a teeny bit through that experience.
00:24:15.029 --> 00:24:21.929
And when my co parent moved out of the house, there was a life coach who said that I might consider psychedelic healing as part of my journey.
00:24:22.389 --> 00:24:25.889
So I paired up with a guide, and she just was brilliant.
00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:33.369
You know, she's trained in all the Western stuff also, but she just was she was kind of had the whole landscape covered.
00:24:33.589 --> 00:24:36.109
And we started with MDMA.
00:24:36.929 --> 00:24:48.449
And the idea is that you start with MDMA, which helps bring up ego level trauma, basically, MDMA helps lower the fear response so that you can go toward these emotions that might feel too scary, otherwise.
00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:53.809
And so you can go approach some of your ego level trauma and start to work with it with the medicine.
00:24:54.649 --> 00:24:57.529
And again, I had this guide there with me to help support me as well.
00:24:58.049 --> 00:25:05.409
And I had done a lot of work with my ego level trauma, not that I was done, but I had nothing surprising came up during that session.
00:25:05.409 --> 00:25:07.709
So we moved on to psilocybin about a month later.
00:25:09.309 --> 00:25:13.609
And psilocybin, you know, my MDMA experience was really just blissful.
00:25:13.869 --> 00:25:31.889
And looking back, I think it was giving me just a glimpse of what my baseline state is underneath all this pain, if I can let go of this pain, then I can be in a really deeply peaceful place, which is how people kind of described, you know, in spirituality, like just being in this really deep relaxation.
00:25:33.509 --> 00:25:40.149
And then for psilocybin, I thought it would be another beautiful experience different, I'm sure it'd be different, but also beautiful.
00:25:40.149 --> 00:25:41.469
And it was really hard.
00:25:41.849 --> 00:25:43.709
And I immediately went into the underworld.
00:25:43.709 --> 00:25:48.569
And there were gremlins dancing with my mom's teeth, it was just like, super uncomfortable.
00:25:48.809 --> 00:25:51.549
And they barked at me, they said, you have more work to do.
00:25:51.729 --> 00:25:55.069
And I was so stunned, because I had done all this work for years in therapy.
00:25:55.069 --> 00:25:57.129
And then I was doing this grief work before that.
00:25:57.589 --> 00:26:00.929
But they the message was, you have so much more grief to unpack.
00:26:01.409 --> 00:26:04.029
And so it's really disheartened by that journey.
00:26:04.029 --> 00:26:06.990
But also, it's was, it's what's true.
00:26:07.269 --> 00:26:14.109
So I started kind of going toward grief, anytime I felt anything, I would clear my plate and try to just sit with it.
00:26:14.729 --> 00:26:26.889
And what would happen afterward is that, you know, colors were more vibrant, like the trees came alive to me, my experience in life became more beautiful, every time I did a big grief session.
00:26:26.889 --> 00:26:32.089
And frankly, again, coming back to this book, at some point, I was in the midst of very heavy grief.
00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:35.069
And then I woke up one day, and one of the chapters just came out of me.
00:26:35.709 --> 00:26:38.789
And so I've had this experience over and over the more I go toward my grief.
00:26:39.509 --> 00:26:45.990
And, you know, I do think that that journey really set the stage for this whole thing, which is go toward your pain.
00:26:46.569 --> 00:26:49.969
Stop avoid, you know, like you have stuff to unpack in it, and it's time to do that.
00:26:49.969 --> 00:26:56.609
So I did a couple psilocybin journeys, and they were all really uncomfortable and dark.
00:26:56.909 --> 00:26:58.909
Some people have everyone has different experience.
00:26:58.909 --> 00:27:02.029
And so some people have these really beautiful light experiences in mind, we're not.
00:27:02.569 --> 00:27:05.329
So my guide ultimately said, I might try ayahuasca.
00:27:05.369 --> 00:27:07.449
And that's, that's what I did next.
00:27:07.750 --> 00:27:12.229
And I did that for on and off for maybe two.
00:27:12.689 --> 00:27:14.029
Yeah, two years, I guess.
00:27:14.189 --> 00:27:17.709
And that was the deepest relationship I developed was with ayahuasca.
00:27:18.229 --> 00:27:28.569
Okay, so the psilocybin, you know, the thing is, for me, I've talked to people who have done psychedelics for, and we're not talking about recreational stuff here.
00:27:28.929 --> 00:27:35.609
We're just making very clear people are talking about you had a guide, and you're doing this with a purpose to work on yourself and your traumas or your grief.
00:27:36.669 --> 00:27:39.149
But I'm the kind of person, I'm a very fearful person.
00:27:39.149 --> 00:27:42.750
So I was talking to a friend of mine, and I said, I'd be scared of a panic attack.
00:27:43.329 --> 00:27:45.009
And she she'd done ayahuasca.
00:27:45.129 --> 00:27:47.589
She goes, Oh, I did, but then she did it again.
00:27:48.369 --> 00:27:58.369
So the thing I when I listened to your book, as you sent me the audio of it, I was like, Wow, you really leaned into what most of us would turn away from.
00:27:58.469 --> 00:28:02.129
And if I had a bad, you know, bad experience, I'd be like, I'm not doing that again.
00:28:03.229 --> 00:28:07.529
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, because that, you know, they can call them bad trips or whatever.
00:28:07.529 --> 00:28:13.689
I do think I do think that's where having having the right setting where you feel safe, I had my guide was critical.
00:28:13.689 --> 00:28:23.529
But also, you know, the journey itself with psilocybin was so dark for me, but the aftermath, you know, so you take you do these psychedelics, and then you integrate what you learned.
00:28:23.529 --> 00:28:26.189
And so much of the time, you have no clue what it's about.
00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:31.709
During or right after, sometimes you get a sense for things, but most of the time for me, I have no clue what it means.
00:28:31.729 --> 00:28:37.569
And then you just it just unfolds, your your brain is rewired, and things start to change in the come in the weeks and months afterward.
00:28:38.629 --> 00:28:43.589
And, and then the integration of it, my life was changing, you know, who I was was changing.
00:28:43.589 --> 00:28:49.149
And I also think there was, you know, an element of all of it where I wasn't spiritual at all before any of this.
00:28:49.569 --> 00:28:53.389
And I think part of that probably was my mom's death where it's like, what, what's the point of any of this?
00:28:53.449 --> 00:28:53.909
This sucks.
00:28:55.169 --> 00:29:00.609
So I think that the psychedelics helped me start to see some of the spiritual connection.
00:29:01.169 --> 00:29:03.209
And, and my life was changing.
00:29:03.209 --> 00:29:11.729
So as difficult as it was, even if I hadn't tried ayahuasca, I think I would still have done more psilocybin, because it was so impactful on my life.
00:29:11.809 --> 00:29:14.049
You know, the lessons I learned were so profound.
00:29:14.469 --> 00:29:14.709
Yeah.
00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:17.329
So, yeah, that's great.
00:29:17.449 --> 00:29:20.189
It's great that you know, you get you did that integration.
00:29:20.189 --> 00:29:22.289
And you mentioned you weren't spiritual before.
00:29:22.389 --> 00:29:23.929
So I'd like to talk about that.
00:29:24.250 --> 00:29:30.649
But I was thinking about like people that have what they call negative ND ease or hellish ND ease.
00:29:31.729 --> 00:29:41.269
They after they integrate the experience after they get over the fear, they realize this is what I needed, you know, so what we call negative is not necessarily bad.
00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:45.750
It may be what you need at the time, and you have to lean into it, as you said, and integrate it.
00:29:46.589 --> 00:29:46.729
Right?
00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:47.009
Yeah.
00:29:47.049 --> 00:29:54.349
And that's what the, you know, and I can't, I can't speak for anyone's experience, but mine, but they say that the medicine shows you what you need to see.
00:29:54.729 --> 00:29:59.189
And so for the people who get these really super fun psilocybin journeys, good for them.
00:29:59.789 --> 00:30:06.209
I, you know, what I needed to see was my pain, because ultimately, that let me acknowledge it and release it.
00:30:06.349 --> 00:30:09.889
And then my way of being in the world is, is, you know, dramatically different.
00:30:10.229 --> 00:30:13.949
I will say I did have one psilocybin journey that was super joyful.
00:30:14.250 --> 00:30:23.689
And the integration of that was actually the hardest for me, because I went from the super joyful, you know, place to back back to being human and go, Well, what do I do with that?
00:30:24.209 --> 00:30:31.969
So it having the pain with the medicine actually was quite then it's like, okay, you come back to earth, you get, you get some relief.
00:30:32.149 --> 00:30:35.289
But also you did, it's like you did the hard work in the journey with the medicine.
00:30:35.289 --> 00:30:37.589
There's some there's a great gift to being able to do that.
00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:42.469
Yeah, that well, it reminds us I was interviewing PMA chatwater is a near death expert.
00:30:42.469 --> 00:30:45.709
And she was saying she was, I guess, in a room and people were sharing their experiences.
00:30:45.809 --> 00:30:50.389
And one had a health experience and said it was like the best thing that ever happened.
00:30:50.389 --> 00:30:54.849
And the other one had like a heavenly experience and had a really difficult time integrating it.
00:30:55.169 --> 00:31:01.429
Because of just like you said, now this compared to that was just like, why am I even still here?
00:31:01.949 --> 00:31:03.369
Yeah, how do I find that here?
00:31:03.389 --> 00:31:03.969
What's the point?
00:31:04.049 --> 00:31:04.629
What's the point?
00:31:04.729 --> 00:31:07.069
I mean, I was I was, it didn't last long.
00:31:07.089 --> 00:31:09.529
But there was an immediate depression after the journey.
00:31:10.149 --> 00:31:13.389
So your your spirituality, when did that start to develop?
00:31:13.389 --> 00:31:13.849
And how?
00:31:16.069 --> 00:31:22.869
Um, you know, I didn't, I didn't label what the voice in the woods was, I think, on some level, I was aware that it could be something beyond me.
00:31:22.929 --> 00:31:25.329
I mean, it was in the sense that it wasn't my brain, right?
00:31:25.369 --> 00:31:30.169
It's not like I was thinking through things and thought, gosh, if I add all this up, my life's tragedy, right?
00:31:30.209 --> 00:31:37.009
It was as it was a spontaneous, you know, from something else, something besides my brain told me that my life was a tragedy.
00:31:37.429 --> 00:31:41.389
But I think it was really that first MDMA journey where I just saw there.
00:31:41.689 --> 00:31:43.509
Again, it's not something that I can describe.
00:31:43.509 --> 00:31:46.849
They talk about how these journeys are ineffable that you can't.
00:31:46.969 --> 00:31:48.069
They're not words for it.
00:31:48.089 --> 00:31:54.289
But there was something in me that goes, Oh, I am a spiritual being, you know, like there, there is more to this.
00:31:54.309 --> 00:32:00.169
And even sometimes in the ayahuasca ceremonies, in a really scary way, like, it's like, I was in this room.
00:32:01.189 --> 00:32:02.769
And I was high on the medicine.
00:32:02.769 --> 00:32:11.990
And then it was like, the curtain was being pulled back, like I would, I would see the room, but then I saw, you know, the kind of human perspective of it being pulled away.
00:32:12.009 --> 00:32:13.490
And it was terrifying to me.
00:32:13.969 --> 00:32:15.949
Ultimately, I didn't, I didn't stay in that place.
00:32:15.949 --> 00:32:28.889
But I think I kept having experiences like that with these psychedelics that showed me, you know, one time during this psilocybin journey, I talked with my mom and not in human form, you know, it's kind of like a spirit, knowledge transfer.
00:32:30.229 --> 00:32:33.909
But I just, you know, that's what those psychedelics do.
00:32:33.969 --> 00:32:39.789
They give you, they gave me a glimpse into what it what reality is.
00:32:40.250 --> 00:32:45.750
And then you go into your back into your human life and find that again on your own.
00:32:45.750 --> 00:32:46.309
Yeah.
00:32:46.929 --> 00:32:54.089
So the ayahuasca, what was so we talked about the MDMA and psilocybin was ayahuasca like for you?
00:32:55.289 --> 00:32:55.729
ayahuasca.
00:32:56.269 --> 00:33:07.309
And, you know, I ultimately did, I think 13 ceremonies of ayahuasca, and everyone was different, many of them, though, like I would go in and just cry grief for hours.
00:33:07.469 --> 00:33:21.649
So I would just, you know, without without a lot of setup, it's just like, I would all of a sudden be sad about my marriage, like, you know, two years after my co parent moved out of the house, I cried for hours about I went in, I went in with an intention about something else.
00:33:21.709 --> 00:33:24.209
And then I cried for hours about my ex husband.
00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:32.209
So, you know, kind of like, there are there are times where you grieve like that there are times where your body just kind of goes away.
00:33:32.250 --> 00:33:35.169
And you're, you're in the geometric landscapes and visions.
00:33:35.969 --> 00:33:39.209
There are times that are just utterly blissful.
00:33:39.589 --> 00:33:42.829
There are times where my body was in an incredible amount of pain.
00:33:42.929 --> 00:33:52.029
I mean, just kind of like the, when there were times where I just talked with the medicine, and I would say I would, it was like, I had just a therapist right here, who knew everything about the world.
00:33:52.409 --> 00:33:54.329
And I would just get this, I would say stuff.
00:33:54.349 --> 00:34:00.269
And she would say, No, do this instead, or you know, like, she would tell me to take space from certain relationships.
00:34:00.269 --> 00:34:05.949
Or one time I said, I thought about my sister and I said, I should send her healing energy.
00:34:06.089 --> 00:34:08.789
And Mother Aya that the medicine we call her Mother Aya.
00:34:09.469 --> 00:34:11.230
She said, No, keep that for yourself.
00:34:11.510 --> 00:34:20.789
And it's just kind of like these really gentle conversations that ultimately had this this huge impact on me where I would go kind of try to understand what what she was telling me.
00:34:20.889 --> 00:34:38.050
But it was like, um, I mean, the the chapter in my book about ayahuasca is called a tapestry of letting go, it just feels like every time was another conversation with the medicine in whatever form, where she would just help me set things down and bring my energy back to me and let things go over and over and over.
00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:45.250
And the grieving was that the grieving was, let's go look at this moment, this moment that you didn't know was so tender, let's go look at that moment.
00:34:45.630 --> 00:34:47.829
And then I got to feel the tenderness of that moment.
00:34:47.869 --> 00:34:49.070
And then I could let it go.
00:34:49.309 --> 00:34:55.449
Otherwise, it's, you know, that I, my vision of this is that it's stored in my body somewhere, this density, this grief.
00:34:55.889 --> 00:34:58.510
And when I can go acknowledge it, then it gets to move through.
00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:04.650
And if I open myself, self up by letting go of this grief, then I get to be a channel for love.
00:35:05.409 --> 00:35:08.150
And that's been just quite a beautiful thing.
00:35:09.010 --> 00:35:16.550
It's interesting, what you just said reminded me of something I just heard recently, because we've all heard the pain is stored in the body, and the body keeps the score and stuff like that.
00:35:16.630 --> 00:35:19.429
And I heard someone a couple weeks ago, and I was listening to a podcast.
00:35:20.030 --> 00:35:24.050
And it said, we have to metabolize the emotions or metabolize the grief.
00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:27.070
I really liked I like that word, for some reason, it made sense to me.
00:35:27.429 --> 00:35:29.829
Because it does, it's there, and it's stuck.
00:35:30.090 --> 00:35:34.969
And we have to, we have to work with it and transform it and let it go.
00:35:35.369 --> 00:35:37.809
So that the energy that we have can flow again.
00:35:38.289 --> 00:35:48.070
And I think so many of us, and again, doing the work that I do, so many of us just don't want to face it, we just want to keep it buried, or not even acknowledge the fact that it even exists.
00:35:49.329 --> 00:35:49.730
Right.
00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:52.590
And so understandably, because it's really painful.
00:35:52.949 --> 00:36:08.570
I mean, I think what I find so heartening, though, is that there's kind of like the deep dive, you can have a crisis, you can have a rock bottom moment, like hearing your life's a tragedy or illness, or all these things that can say, it's time to look at this, and, and you're going to do it, because there's nothing else to do.
00:36:09.429 --> 00:36:17.050
But if you're not in that rock bottom place, there's also the like, I get to acknowledge, even saying, I don't want to look at my pain.
00:36:17.750 --> 00:36:25.010
Just being with that, like that's another, that's a feeling, that's a fear, whatever that is, but you can go, yeah, I don't want to look at my pain.
00:36:25.369 --> 00:36:32.110
Like just having that acknowledgement of that initial emotion is a sweet thing that we can do to ourselves that will let something start to move.
00:36:32.650 --> 00:36:34.829
And then, and then that can lead to the next step.
00:36:34.849 --> 00:36:49.789
I mean, it's like, it doesn't have to be okay, now I have to go do all this, if you want to, if you're motivated to amazing, because really, for me, it was deep dive, both internal work and with a psychedelics where my life changed dramatically in a short period of time, because I was willing to do that.
00:36:50.249 --> 00:36:54.170
But even if somebody is not ready to do that, that's okay, then you can say I'm not ready to do that.
00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:09.410
Just having that conversation with yourself is a meaningful conversation versus not knowing it's there versus you know, like if you're totally unaware that it's stuck, it's going to stay stuck, you're going to have these patterns in your life that are frustrating and painful and that keep perpetuating.
00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:16.329
But if you say, I know, there's stuff I want to, I know, there's stuff I need to look at, and I'm not ready to look at it.
00:37:16.490 --> 00:37:20.829
Just having that awareness is is a great place to start.
00:37:21.289 --> 00:37:25.090
Or I'm, I want to do this, but I'm really scared.
00:37:25.150 --> 00:37:30.470
Or Okay, for me, it's like taking coping mechanisms off the table, can I for 10 minutes?
00:37:31.010 --> 00:37:45.730
I mean, maybe, maybe a day, maybe a week, but could have for 10 minutes not look at my phone, could I for a week, you know, not have sugar, whatever the thing is, we can start to make these things, these steps incrementally without feeling like the whole thing, because it's, it's overwhelming.
00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:49.210
I mean, it took me years to wake up to my pain, because I had so much.
00:37:49.430 --> 00:37:50.970
And I couldn't do it all at once.
00:37:50.970 --> 00:37:54.010
I had to take it moment by moment when I was ready.
00:37:54.410 --> 00:37:54.809
Yeah.
00:37:55.190 --> 00:37:58.769
So the the coping mechanism, as you mentioned, so talk about that a little bit more.
00:37:58.870 --> 00:38:02.530
So what do we want to do as far as taking those off the table?
00:38:03.210 --> 00:38:13.450
For me, what happens is, you know, I'm, if I'm really annoyed, or really, like, if I have, I feel like there's kind of a different, there's different levels of pain, some are some you can kind of tolerate, and you tolerate every day.
00:38:13.730 --> 00:38:19.710
And others are so scary or big that you kind of have to stop everything and deal with them.
00:38:19.970 --> 00:38:24.890
For me, I can get into these, like, I'm in these habits that I'm really stuck in a rut kind of thing.
00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:42.370
And what I do is if I want to stop feeling stuck somewhere, I, I know that when I'm watching screens, when I'm eating sugar, when I'm, you know, taking in a lot of noise from the outside world, I know that I'm keeping myself from something.
00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:47.530
So when my sugar cravings are high, which they've been lately, I'm like, Okay, I know, I'm avoiding something.
00:38:47.890 --> 00:38:48.710
And that's okay.
00:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.849
Like, I don't, I don't need to say it was, it's bad to do that.
00:38:51.950 --> 00:38:57.809
I just want to be aware that I'm avoiding something when my cravings are going up, and I'm, and I'm doing more of that kind of activity.
00:38:58.150 --> 00:39:19.030
So when I'm ready, when I say, Okay, I'm tired of, I'm tired of being in this state, then I will say, Okay, let's do a week where I cut out, you know, big flavors and sugar, that kind of thing, where I cut out screens, where I cut out social media, if you're on social media, even social interactions, I mean, things like that, where it's like, can we can we find quiet in our lives?
00:39:19.450 --> 00:39:24.750
And that's when, because when I have a craving, it's something in me saying, I want, I'm trying to get your attention.
00:39:24.750 --> 00:39:26.170
And I'm saying, I'm not going to do that.
00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:27.650
I'm gonna go have this chocolate bar.
00:39:28.090 --> 00:39:28.329
Yeah.
00:39:29.150 --> 00:39:34.829
So if I'm ready to start hearing the messages that are trying to get through to me, then I can not have that chocolate bar.
00:39:34.970 --> 00:39:37.490
And I can just sit there and see what comes up.
00:39:37.789 --> 00:39:48.090
And frankly, for me, there's a lot of like, again, just being sweet to that first emotion, emotion, which is like, I don't want to take the coping mechanisms off the table, screw you, I don't want to do this, you know.
00:39:48.410 --> 00:39:50.570
So there's kind of like being sweet to that part.
00:39:50.710 --> 00:39:54.730
Because there's all these different, we have all these different pieces of us that are trying to get our attention.
00:39:55.450 --> 00:40:04.349
And when we fill ourselves up with busyness, and flavors, and noise, and all that, then it's really hard for these voices to get through.
00:40:04.829 --> 00:40:06.269
Yeah, I love what you said there.
00:40:06.370 --> 00:40:07.870
It's really about awareness.
00:40:08.010 --> 00:40:13.269
I mean, because sometimes we we need we have coping mechanism for mechanism for a reason.
00:40:13.269 --> 00:40:14.610
So sometimes we need those things.
00:40:14.750 --> 00:40:18.550
But to to get curious and say, Why am I doing this?
00:40:18.710 --> 00:40:20.289
What am what is it that I'm avoiding?
00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:30.450
At least to acknowledge that it's that it's there, that there's something that that we that we need to address at some point, and then be to be able to come around to it when we're ready to address it.
00:40:30.970 --> 00:40:41.610
You know, because sometimes grief can frankly, be overwhelming, you know, like, absolutely tragic loss of your mother, you know, something like that, you know, the coping mechanisms are there to protect us.
00:40:41.829 --> 00:40:53.530
And even these internal family systems, we all these these parts that we have, you know, they're people would be very careful, they're not our enemies, they're not there to harm us, they're there to protect us.
00:40:53.970 --> 00:40:57.329
And but they're, they're misguided, they're overused, you know, ever.
00:40:57.430 --> 00:40:59.430
So this idea, I love the idea.
00:40:59.630 --> 00:41:11.210
And I don't again heard this pretty recently, because I'd heard something before called positive intelligence, we talked about the various parts of ourselves, and we talk about sages and saboteurs, which is really different language for the same thing.
00:41:11.650 --> 00:41:15.130
But in that system, they're more like adversaries.
00:41:15.630 --> 00:41:22.390
Like internal family systems are like they're parts of us that are just need some guidance and need some love.
00:41:22.590 --> 00:41:22.730
Right?
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:23.329
Right.
00:41:23.910 --> 00:41:24.610
Yeah, I can.
00:41:24.730 --> 00:41:26.030
It's a very sweet thing.
00:41:26.530 --> 00:41:28.309
Very gentle, I think.
00:41:29.090 --> 00:41:36.110
And you know, I was talking with a podcast host months ago, and she was saying how she was like, Why can't I get this right.
00:41:36.170 --> 00:41:44.570
And then after she read my book, she was like, Oh, it's this part, it's the teenage part of me that felt like I had to fight to get me heard or whatever it was like.
00:41:44.730 --> 00:41:50.070
And so as soon as she realized it was her younger version, then then she's not mad at it.
00:41:50.170 --> 00:41:51.710
She's sweet to it, right?
00:41:51.750 --> 00:41:55.110
And once you're sweet to it, then that then that part actually feels acknowledged.
00:41:55.110 --> 00:41:57.130
And then they probably don't need you to do the thing anymore.
00:41:57.530 --> 00:41:57.710
Right?
00:41:57.730 --> 00:42:14.110
It's kind of like, as soon as you can turn it from there being your adversary to being a really well intended, innocent piece of you, then, then it shifts you toward them, and then what they need changes because they've been acknowledged.
00:42:14.890 --> 00:42:15.970
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:42:16.610 --> 00:42:20.490
So I know, also, we talked about your consulting business a little bit.
00:42:20.510 --> 00:42:23.430
So you made a career change after this happens.
00:42:24.470 --> 00:42:27.570
Well, I kept the consulting business for a good long while.
00:42:28.309 --> 00:42:33.210
I mean, but kind of with less passion, my heart stopped being in it.
00:42:33.269 --> 00:42:36.130
And then this book took up all my time.
00:42:36.130 --> 00:42:39.210
And I and I did formally shut down the consulting practice.
00:42:39.210 --> 00:42:42.570
So I'm really in a place right now of sharing the book.
00:42:43.630 --> 00:42:46.470
And, you know, we go through these periods of deep grounding.
00:42:46.930 --> 00:42:51.930
And so I've been doing a ton of grief work just in this last this last summer and fall, I did so much grief work.
00:42:52.210 --> 00:43:15.430
And I'm very aware that I was grounding I was anchoring down so that the next creative phase can come but I'm just kind of in that in that void quiet space right now and trying to be really appreciative of the grounding and also really honoring the mystery, you know, I have this history of needing to know what's coming next, controlling it of, you know, having the plan.
00:43:16.070 --> 00:43:20.590
And so it's very new, a new practice for me to really say, I don't have to have the plan.
00:43:21.210 --> 00:43:25.110
Yeah, just wake up today, I can sink into my body and I'll be guided.
00:43:25.870 --> 00:43:30.789
It's pretty well, I just I wrote a post for substack earlier this morning.
00:43:31.250 --> 00:43:34.789
And it was a guest I had been speaking with it was about purpose.
00:43:34.789 --> 00:43:42.990
And people say my purpose, I didn't, the post was basically, we look at purpose, like it should be a roadmap, we want to know exactly where we're going, when we're going to get there.
00:43:43.550 --> 00:43:48.690
And I remember talking to him, and he does all those big, like life lesson stuff.
00:43:48.890 --> 00:43:50.710
And I asked him about purpose.
00:43:50.769 --> 00:43:54.130
He goes, my purpose right now, Brian is to sit here and have a conversation with you.
00:43:54.710 --> 00:43:57.030
And he's like, this, this is my purpose.
00:43:57.410 --> 00:44:00.990
And I think a lot of us think about purpose, like it's that big long term thing.
00:44:01.010 --> 00:44:09.849
And there is a certain amount of trust that has to come that like, we're not going to necessarily get that information, you know, right now and to just sit with that.
00:44:09.910 --> 00:44:10.890
So I love you talk about this.
00:44:11.550 --> 00:44:13.110
You know, you're in a period of time of grounding.
00:44:13.390 --> 00:44:14.070
And that's okay.
00:44:14.170 --> 00:44:16.490
Being okay with that is a really important thing, I think.
00:44:17.150 --> 00:44:18.329
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:18.390 --> 00:44:25.490
And frankly, that's when the that's when the magic I mean, for me, this is all about like, life feels magical in a way that it didn't before I had this awakening.
00:44:25.870 --> 00:44:30.950
And there's this magic that can happen when you don't take control, right?
00:44:30.950 --> 00:44:33.890
When you let that go when you trust things to move through you.
00:44:34.090 --> 00:44:37.710
And this can happen both kind of in the time and what I'm here to do.
00:44:37.789 --> 00:44:43.390
And there's also can happen with, you know, from the financial perspective of like, if I don't plan every single thing, will I die?
00:44:44.269 --> 00:44:50.610
And I think on some level, you know, there is kind of a willingness to let everything go.
00:44:51.870 --> 00:45:02.349
You almost have to be willing to let everything go badly, like to let to let the worst be true to then actually be open to everything going in this beautiful kind of divine way.
00:45:03.970 --> 00:45:05.390
It's all greater than my knowing.
00:45:05.650 --> 00:45:17.349
And I, you know, when I'm in these deep periods of grief, I'm very clear to me that that grieving part of me says, Don't you go make light of this later, like, this is so painful.
00:45:17.349 --> 00:45:19.590
And I know that my great all I know is my grief.
00:45:19.650 --> 00:45:21.150
And there's so much out in the world.
00:45:21.150 --> 00:45:37.090
So for me to speak about anything, as if I know the truth, as if there is a way, you know, it's just kind of like, I feel like I was in this last period of so much, like, I have to have so much reverence for what people are experiencing that is beyond my capacity to understand.
00:45:37.390 --> 00:45:44.870
And the mystery of life, you know, I just think from the self help perspective, it's like, I want to go find the way to happiness.
00:45:44.870 --> 00:45:47.690
And if you follow these three keys, you'll get there kind of stuff.
00:45:47.710 --> 00:45:50.809
And it's like, I don't know, there's so much bigger than that.
00:45:50.809 --> 00:46:06.550
There's so much more beautiful, there's so much more pain, you know, so for me, the best practice seems to be to just surrender to what's bigger than me and to empty myself out as much as I can, so that I can let love flow through me.
00:46:07.090 --> 00:46:07.210
Yeah.
00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:13.970
Now I can imagine someone thinking, Okay, well, this sounds like a painful and exhausting process.
00:46:14.030 --> 00:46:15.809
And is it ever going to be over?
00:46:16.070 --> 00:46:23.370
You know, I know, some people say, I don't want to start, I don't want to start deal with my grief or my pain, because that sounds like too much work.
00:46:23.470 --> 00:46:25.329
And, and when do I get to the end?
00:46:25.789 --> 00:46:27.410
So what, how would you address that?
00:46:28.590 --> 00:46:31.110
You know, I started doing it, because it was time to do it.
00:46:31.510 --> 00:46:38.309
So I kind of on some level, I get it, you know, I wasn't willing to look at it until I had to face the reality of my situation.
00:46:38.309 --> 00:46:43.030
And so, you know, there's some book I read years ago, I don't know, I forget which one it was.
00:46:43.030 --> 00:46:46.110
But it was someone talking to her mentor about why do I keep doing these things?
00:46:46.110 --> 00:46:48.829
And he's in the mentor said, because it doesn't hurt enough.
00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:53.269
You know, like, when you heard enough, you're gonna do this work, because there's nothing else to do.
00:46:53.630 --> 00:46:56.150
You're at the end, and you've got to do it.
00:46:57.309 --> 00:47:05.849
And so I mean, I think there's just an element of like, you know, again, not not to tell anyone else what to do, we're all going to be guided to do this when we're ready.
00:47:07.190 --> 00:47:20.710
And having said that, on my journey, I have discovered I'm a singer and a writer and a dancer in my way of being in the world, you know, I'm just, I'm in my body and boundaries flow naturally and love flows.
00:47:21.490 --> 00:47:27.210
I can be so much more of service now than I could before before I was depleted.
00:47:27.410 --> 00:47:30.870
And you know, really wasn't living a life worth living.
00:47:31.130 --> 00:47:36.530
And now I am and being so filled myself means love just pours through me to other people.
00:47:36.690 --> 00:47:38.210
So there's like, absolutely.
00:47:38.789 --> 00:47:42.030
In that way, there is a destination you you open up.
00:47:42.090 --> 00:47:49.269
I mean, we do these ayahuasca ceremonies, and I'll be there with someone who's it's their first ceremony, and then I'll see them a few ceremonies later.
00:47:49.530 --> 00:48:01.130
And the openness that happens with these people who have now, you know, decided to look at the stuff they they flower in a way they blossom in a way that is extraordinary to see.
00:48:01.230 --> 00:48:03.750
So I felt that myself and I see it around me as well.
00:48:03.950 --> 00:48:17.230
So from my perspective, there's no other path that I would want to take from someone else perspective, I understand has the hesitation because what I think is we can understand the pain, we know a little taste of pain, we know what we're trying to avoid.
00:48:17.730 --> 00:48:22.070
But what I couldn't have understood five years ago is how beautiful it is.
00:48:22.410 --> 00:48:26.470
And so it's hard to make that choice to move forward with this.
00:48:26.630 --> 00:48:30.490
If you don't really know what that beauty feels like and looks like.
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:39.150
Yeah, thank you that I think that was really good transition that because we've talked so much about the pain, and then you just you talked about the beauty.
00:48:39.410 --> 00:48:40.610
I mean, what's what's the payoff?
00:48:40.710 --> 00:48:41.970
What's the reason why we do this?
00:48:42.470 --> 00:48:48.430
And we're not seeking pain, we're not going out to have experiences to create pain.
00:48:48.829 --> 00:48:51.930
But we're acknowledging that the pain is there.
00:48:52.070 --> 00:48:54.490
And as we talked about earlier, the pain is it's already there.
00:48:54.950 --> 00:48:56.890
It's already it's already in our bodies.
00:48:56.890 --> 00:48:58.130
It's already in our psyches.
00:48:58.130 --> 00:48:59.650
It's already it's already there.
00:49:00.210 --> 00:49:09.570
What you're talking about is like, facing that acknowledging it, working with that, and transforming it into the beauty that you've been able to experience.
00:49:11.950 --> 00:49:14.570
Yeah, it's, it's been pretty incredible.
00:49:15.390 --> 00:49:18.150
And like you said, I mean, I think it surprises me so much.
00:49:18.349 --> 00:49:24.010
I think, you know, parts of us, like I said, I thought I lost my mom, but really, I lost myself.
00:49:24.010 --> 00:49:31.789
And I think so many of us don't know who we are, have lost ourselves to this kind of being shut off from our bodies and from our pain.
00:49:32.710 --> 00:49:36.590
And you don't know how much you're missing yourself, you know, for so long.
00:49:37.329 --> 00:49:40.890
Because I was out of my body, I looked everywhere else for the answer.
00:49:41.470 --> 00:49:41.590
Yeah.
00:49:41.789 --> 00:49:50.390
And I wanted somebody, somebody else like I needed the right partner, the right friends, the right community, I needed these external pieces to make me feel good.
00:49:50.450 --> 00:49:53.490
But the truth was that that was never going to be enough.
00:49:53.490 --> 00:49:59.769
I was always going to need more from an external perspective, because what I was missing was not that I was missing me.
00:50:00.349 --> 00:50:04.230
And so, you know, I was never going to be happy in that context.
00:50:04.550 --> 00:50:09.450
And I think this voice in the woods was saying, finally, like, are you done being unhappy?
00:50:09.990 --> 00:50:11.329
You can choose something else.
00:50:11.710 --> 00:50:14.789
I just, frankly, I didn't feel like you could choose something else.
00:50:14.789 --> 00:50:17.450
I was doing all the stuff that I thought you could do.
00:50:17.670 --> 00:50:21.970
I was doing therapy, I was going to workshops, and I was going to retreats and reading all the books.
00:50:22.410 --> 00:50:27.690
And very diligently, you know, I was willing to do all that as well as I could.
00:50:27.789 --> 00:50:30.510
And it and it was, but it was this external picture.
00:50:30.510 --> 00:50:35.570
And again, Mother, I when I said I'd send my sister healing energy, she said, No, keep that for yourself.
00:50:35.570 --> 00:50:37.870
Because I mean, I have more to do here.
00:50:38.090 --> 00:50:40.070
Like I don't need to send any love outward.
00:50:40.289 --> 00:50:44.470
Once I'm filled with my own love, love will just naturally flow to other people.
00:50:45.250 --> 00:50:47.590
Yeah, that's a great that's a great way of putting it.
00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:48.070
I love that.
00:50:49.190 --> 00:50:52.690
So do you still do the psychedelics?
00:50:52.769 --> 00:50:55.950
You mentioned you're doing I will ask a ceremonies watching other people.
00:50:56.030 --> 00:50:56.809
Are you still doing them?
00:50:57.870 --> 00:50:58.750
I am.
00:50:58.849 --> 00:51:00.510
I'm on a little bit of a break.
00:51:01.070 --> 00:51:01.849
Maybe forever.
00:51:02.289 --> 00:51:03.050
Maybe not.
00:51:03.050 --> 00:51:04.630
I went in February.
00:51:05.289 --> 00:51:07.809
And Mother Aya told me that I didn't need to come back.
00:51:07.970 --> 00:51:15.610
And her message was, as long as you look out, so just what we were talking about, as long as you look outside yourself, you'll never know all of who you are.
00:51:15.990 --> 00:51:25.289
And so even with psychedelics, I realized I'm looking to Mother Aya for the answer, instead of going into my body and finding the wisdom there, because that's what psychedelics do is they, they take you to your own wisdom.
00:51:25.789 --> 00:51:25.990
Yeah.
00:51:26.170 --> 00:51:28.650
But I still very much was like, I have a problem in my life.
00:51:28.670 --> 00:51:30.610
I can't wait to go work on it with Mother Aya.
00:51:31.050 --> 00:51:31.349
Yeah.
00:51:31.849 --> 00:51:37.650
And what I learned from her in February is still integrating that message is that I can do that.
00:51:37.970 --> 00:51:39.110
I can do it now by myself.
00:51:39.410 --> 00:51:45.170
Like I learned it from the medicines, how to go find the pain, how to be loving to the pain, you know how to how to release these things.
00:51:45.990 --> 00:51:48.590
So I don't know if it's a forever thing.
00:51:48.590 --> 00:51:54.250
Or if it's, you know, the funny thing about the psychedelics is they're also very trickster, like she'll say something.
00:51:54.450 --> 00:51:56.030
And I'll think it's this over here.
00:51:56.030 --> 00:51:57.110
And she might be joking.
00:51:57.650 --> 00:52:01.170
And she really just said it to get a to like, help me see what my reaction was.
00:52:01.170 --> 00:52:03.910
Because when I was, when she told me not to come back, I was so sad.
00:52:03.970 --> 00:52:05.050
I felt abandoned by her.
00:52:05.170 --> 00:52:07.030
So here I am being abandoned again by a mother.
00:52:07.450 --> 00:52:07.730
Yeah.
00:52:08.870 --> 00:52:11.710
So I'm aware that it may not be that I'm done forever.
00:52:11.849 --> 00:52:18.690
But it has been a time of really owning my capacity to do the stuff without the medicine.
00:52:18.910 --> 00:52:30.130
And to me, that's a very heartening message that, you know, I went to, I went to learn how to do this stuff not to be fixed by the medicines, but to be taught by the medicines.
00:52:30.130 --> 00:52:33.130
And now I can take that learning and apply it myself.
00:52:33.710 --> 00:52:35.650
Yeah, I think the medicines are very interesting.
00:52:35.849 --> 00:52:43.289
I've looked into a little bit, you know, because I would say, you know, a Western point of view, but they change your brain chemistry, and you just have experiences in your brain.
00:52:43.789 --> 00:52:51.530
I think of them more as like lowering the veil, or allowing our brains are moving the filter, and allowing us to see that reality.
00:52:51.670 --> 00:52:58.890
And there's some controversy, even in the spiritual world, but some people say, well, you shouldn't use, you know, artificial means you should get there on your own.
00:52:59.050 --> 00:53:04.710
But then some of us meditate for decades, and we never we never reach those types of realities.
00:53:04.809 --> 00:53:09.990
So yeah, I think it's going to be individual for everybody to decide whether that's for them or not.
00:53:10.590 --> 00:53:16.789
And it's, you know, it's actually my other, my other ayahuasca mindset, it's time for you to, to do this on your own.
00:53:17.430 --> 00:53:24.269
Now that you've gotten this, you know, the foundation and the realizations that you've gotten from the medicines, so right, right.
00:53:24.289 --> 00:53:29.890
And just for me, it's, again, this perpetual looking outside myself.
00:53:29.890 --> 00:53:39.070
I mean, it's like, you get so much better at things over time, but there's still layers for me to release to go, okay, I'm still wanting someone to validate me, I'm still wanting someone to tell me I'm okay.
00:53:39.430 --> 00:53:41.730
You know, I can find that in myself.
00:53:42.530 --> 00:53:42.930
Yeah.
00:53:43.610 --> 00:53:49.370
So the voice that spoke to you in the woods, you know, those years ago, what do you think the voice would say to you today?
00:53:51.090 --> 00:53:52.170
I'm doing great.
00:53:53.690 --> 00:54:06.630
I mean, again, I think that that voice now I think that voice was my was my body and I and I and I thought about that lots where like, what would the voice say today would not say my life would be a tragedy.
00:54:06.630 --> 00:54:19.170
I mean, the the transformation that's occurred in my own experiences is incredible, but also just how I every relationship every single relationship I have is has transformed because of my transformation.
00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:24.849
And, you know, I show up for people in ways that I never could have shown up before.
00:54:25.590 --> 00:54:32.750
Before I showed up, I might actually it's interesting because I might be doing the exact same thing, like showing up for somebody who's who needs help.
00:54:33.030 --> 00:54:41.450
But before I would have been doing it because I was I should and I'm obligated to and they need me and I'd be totally depleted afterward.
00:54:41.769 --> 00:54:44.030
And now I'll show up and do that exact same thing.
00:54:44.130 --> 00:54:46.170
And I'm just filled to the brim with love.
00:54:46.650 --> 00:54:48.990
And I don't need anything, anything in return.
00:54:49.430 --> 00:54:53.750
So like there are these relationships where even maybe we've had painful exchanges in the past.
00:54:54.210 --> 00:55:01.150
And I don't need the other person to do anything like I don't need their sorry, I don't need to, I don't need them for my healing.
00:55:01.150 --> 00:55:02.829
And so I can just show up and be loving.
00:55:03.410 --> 00:55:07.910
And it's kind of like, crazy to me how how different it is.
00:55:08.070 --> 00:55:13.390
But I'm, I've changed the trajectory for my for me and my son.
00:55:13.789 --> 00:55:18.630
And the rest of my family kind of looks at me with wide eyes coming up what's happened.
00:55:20.110 --> 00:55:29.630
But it's really beautiful, you know, like things were before I would have been really concerned about boundaries, or how, you know, am I getting compensated for something or whatever it is.
00:55:29.650 --> 00:55:30.849
And now I'm just like, I'm good.
00:55:31.590 --> 00:55:36.809
I don't like I, and it's not, I take such good care of myself is part of that, right?
00:55:36.829 --> 00:55:46.050
Like I'm very much if I want to be loving to other people, I know first, if I'm if I don't feel very loving toward others, I know that means I need to love myself more.
00:55:46.610 --> 00:55:55.370
And so this is very much premised on the on the, you know, the idea that I'm taking good care of myself, and then I can show up for others, because I'm so resourced.
00:55:55.870 --> 00:55:56.130
Yeah.
00:55:56.670 --> 00:56:01.730
I like what you said there, but you could do the same thing with different motivations.
00:56:01.950 --> 00:56:03.670
And it has a completely different meaning.
00:56:03.670 --> 00:56:06.110
I think that's the thing that's really, really important.
00:56:06.470 --> 00:56:14.090
You know, because sometimes people will think, well, self care means being selfish and not doing things for other people.
00:56:14.090 --> 00:56:25.610
But it just means not doing things for other people out of being needy, or needing for their, you know, for their approval or their praise, you're doing it now, because you have more of an abundance of what's flowing out of you.
00:56:26.150 --> 00:56:26.269
Yeah.
00:56:27.410 --> 00:56:30.370
Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty surprising.
00:56:30.370 --> 00:56:36.410
And I think that's the other piece too, it's kind of like, I first had the awakening, and then it's like, Okay, what huge things am I going to go do in my life?
00:56:36.470 --> 00:56:37.930
Now I can change the world.
00:56:38.470 --> 00:56:40.990
And then, and then you settle into it a little bit.
00:56:41.030 --> 00:56:42.950
And it's like, Oh, I can do the same things.
00:56:43.210 --> 00:56:51.269
You know, like, I was, you know, I went to the grocery store before, I'll go to the grocery store now, like I wish someone a happy birthday before I wish them a happy birthday now.
00:56:51.530 --> 00:56:55.570
But the energy of those of all of my experiences is what's changed.
00:56:55.570 --> 00:57:01.450
It's my, my doing the same ordinary things feels everything can feel sacred and extraordinary.
00:57:02.170 --> 00:57:04.309
Yeah, well, that gets back to the purpose thing.
00:57:04.329 --> 00:57:11.510
I think we talked about earlier, because again, I think people sometimes think of purpose, like the big things, I'm supposed to do this thing, I'm supposed to do that thing.
00:57:12.230 --> 00:57:31.769
And the older I get, the more I think our purpose is, is to be authentic, and to get to know ourselves, you know, really, that internal work that we do the internal work that you've done, and that you're showing one way that other people can start to approach that, you know, and the biggest thing being getting away from that fear and facing the pain.
00:57:33.570 --> 00:57:34.010
Yeah.
00:57:34.010 --> 00:57:34.450
Yeah.
00:57:34.530 --> 00:57:42.250
And I mean, getting away the fear from the fear, or just really sitting with the fear, fear is a really hard thing to sit with, but just letting it all flow through.
00:57:42.349 --> 00:57:47.730
I mean, I think that's the other pieces that once you face your pain, you realize how incredibly strong you are.
00:57:48.030 --> 00:57:53.570
And that's so cool, because I've always felt so weak, and so, you know, fragile.
00:57:54.090 --> 00:57:59.750
And so now I'm, I've gone through so much that anything can happen in my life, and it's okay.
00:58:00.390 --> 00:58:06.390
Yeah, that's such a different place before it was like, I needed all the things to line up so that I was okay.
00:58:06.990 --> 00:58:07.710
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:07.710 --> 00:58:14.090
Well, I, you know, I could tell from from reading your book, it's like, you know, this is a person who's really, you know, lean into this, right?
00:58:14.170 --> 00:58:21.530
Who is really, I mean, I see you as very bold and very not fearless, because we all have fear.
00:58:21.950 --> 00:58:27.630
But But to say, I'm going to face my fear, I'm going to face my pain, I'm going to, I'm going to lean into this.
00:58:27.730 --> 00:58:34.849
And I love in your book about how you're just like, you're very, you're very open, you're very raw about like, you know, your emotions and what's happened to you.
00:58:34.950 --> 00:58:36.870
And you're really putting yourself out there.
00:58:37.030 --> 00:58:40.230
And I can tell it's in service to other people, you want to help other people.
00:58:41.370 --> 00:58:42.450
Yeah, I do.
00:58:42.730 --> 00:58:50.230
And, and I'm so, you know, as I've realized how incredible I am, I realized how incredible every individual is.
00:58:50.410 --> 00:58:52.410
So there's kind of this element of, I think it was.
00:58:53.370 --> 00:59:11.030
And I think it was a data gene that says, you know, when you stop helping other people, you'll be their greatest help, something like that, where it's like, if I can just take care of myself and show up with this authenticity, with this love flowing from me, other people, it's, it's just like we're waking each other up, right?
00:59:11.190 --> 00:59:14.550
So somebody else will see that and then something will spark in them.
00:59:14.650 --> 00:59:16.670
It's less, it's not that I'm helping anybody.
00:59:16.670 --> 00:59:19.390
It's that they're helping themselves with what we're sharing, right?
00:59:19.630 --> 00:59:20.430
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:21.070 --> 00:59:28.390
So going forward in your life, we talked, we talked a little bit earlier about your spirituality, how it's changed and developed.
00:59:28.530 --> 00:59:29.829
So where do you see yourself now?
00:59:29.910 --> 00:59:32.070
What do you see yourself in five or 10 years?
00:59:32.970 --> 00:59:33.650
Well, that would be fun.
00:59:33.769 --> 00:59:34.470
A little preview.
00:59:34.590 --> 00:59:35.410
I have no clue.
00:59:35.950 --> 00:59:37.750
Because it's like, where do I see myself tomorrow?
00:59:38.349 --> 00:59:56.789
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think, you know, again, this, this last year has been a lot about letting go of the need to understand and that was part of one of my more recent ceremonies with with ayahuasca was Mother Aya showed me this huge vision.
00:59:56.789 --> 01:00:00.349
And I was like, I don't understand how I can do that.
01:00:00.390 --> 01:00:02.390
Like, it's kind of this vision for me moving forward.
01:00:02.450 --> 01:00:04.849
And it was like, I can't, my brain couldn't get it.
01:00:04.870 --> 01:00:05.710
I was so overwhelmed.
01:00:05.730 --> 01:00:09.630
I was sitting there with a blanket over my head, like rocking back and forth like a mental patient.
01:00:10.349 --> 01:00:14.710
And, and so like, you have to show me how I'm going to be able to handle that.
01:00:14.710 --> 01:00:16.190
And she said, turn off your brain.
01:00:17.329 --> 01:00:20.870
And my brain is really reluctant to follow those instructions.
01:00:20.930 --> 01:00:26.309
But the more I'm becoming more practiced at letting my brain be silent.
01:00:26.849 --> 01:00:30.490
And that's when things can move.
01:00:30.610 --> 01:00:36.769
It's like, if, again, becoming an empty vessel so that the the loving energy can move through me.
01:00:36.769 --> 01:00:38.769
And that's all I'm here to do.
01:00:39.390 --> 01:00:40.990
Yeah, I think it's a great answer.
01:00:41.050 --> 01:00:42.710
And I actually I love your answer.
01:00:42.710 --> 01:00:48.849
Because again, Tom saw some people go to well, I'm going to be in this job, or I'm going to be there.
01:00:48.930 --> 01:00:50.970
And it's not a it's not about that.
01:00:50.970 --> 01:00:53.890
It's about really becoming more of your authentic self.
01:00:53.890 --> 01:00:56.010
So I love your answer.
01:00:56.050 --> 01:00:57.030
Thank you for that.
01:00:57.370 --> 01:01:06.170
So, Alexis, we're coming to the end of our time, remind people of the name of your book, where they can get it and if people can reach out to you how they can reach you.
01:01:06.970 --> 01:01:08.769
So this it's pain is a portal to beauty.
01:01:09.269 --> 01:01:11.550
And it's right now it's everywhere online.
01:01:12.170 --> 01:01:17.690
So anywhere you search for it by Alexis Lee, and my website is alexislee.com.
01:01:17.809 --> 01:01:22.329
And there's a contact form there, I would love to hear from anybody.
01:01:22.329 --> 01:01:28.210
And frankly, right now we're doing work with book clubs and anybody who wants a copy, I'll send you one just really.
01:01:28.630 --> 01:01:32.530
And this was this book was a gift that came to me and moved through me.
01:01:32.570 --> 01:01:35.710
And I'm grateful to take it out to the world.
01:01:35.930 --> 01:01:36.870
Oh, that's very generous.
01:01:36.990 --> 01:01:41.349
And by the way, for people that are listening, not watching is Lee le igh.
01:01:42.150 --> 01:01:44.470
And Alexis, again, thank you so much for being here.
01:01:44.610 --> 01:01:46.410
Thank you for what you put out into the world.
01:01:46.550 --> 01:01:48.130
I know it's gonna help a lot of people.
01:01:49.590 --> 01:01:51.150
This has been a fun conversation.
01:01:51.150 --> 01:01:52.410
Brian, thanks for having me.
01:01:52.550 --> 01:01:52.789
All right.
01:01:52.849 --> 01:01:53.510
Have a good morning.
01:01:54.130 --> 01:01:54.470
Bye.
01:01:55.670 --> 01:01:58.730
grief doesn't follow stages, timelines or rules.
01:01:59.210 --> 01:02:01.670
And if you've ever wondered, Am I doing this right?
01:02:01.870 --> 01:02:02.829
You're not alone.
01:02:03.570 --> 01:02:05.309
That's why I created the grief check in.
01:02:05.670 --> 01:02:06.690
It's not a test.
01:02:06.870 --> 01:02:08.390
There are no right or wrong answers.
01:02:08.890 --> 01:02:13.050
It's simply a gentle way to understand how grief may be showing up for you right now.
01:02:13.670 --> 01:02:20.530
In just a few minutes, you'll gain clarity and language for what you're experiencing without judgment labels or pressure to move on.
01:02:21.150 --> 01:02:24.710
If you're wondering where you are in grief, this is a safe place to look.
01:02:25.289 --> 01:02:28.349
Go to grief to growth.com slash check in.
01:02:28.450 --> 01:02:32.789
That's grief numeral to growth.com slash check in