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Welcome to the Accounting for Innovation podcast, where we explore cutting edge strategies and insights into the world of accounting and finance.
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Presented by Decimal and the Radical CPA, each episode dives deep into industry trends.
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Whether you're a seasoned professional or a budding entrepreneur, join us as we unpack key concepts and share practical tips to drive success.
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Welcome to the accounting for innovation podcast.
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I'm Jodi Paydar, the radical CPA, and I've been at the forefront of innovation in the accounting industry for over 15 years.
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My co host, Bat Tate is the CEO of Decimal, one of the fastest growing accounting companies in the country and is an accounting innovator.
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Thanks Jodi.
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It's been a fun season as we're talking about a lot of things hitting the accounting industry, but today is right in my sweet spot.
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And I really am excited to talk about growth.
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How as a firm owner or as an accountant, do you grow your firm?
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Do you get into sales?
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And do you really learn about how can I do this in the most cost effective and effective way?
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And Jodi, as somebody that has built and run her own firm, and I would say multiple businesses, including a very well selling book.
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What are some of the places, where are some of the places that you start in thinking about growth and selling?
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if I were to go back to my former self, I would sell to everyone, everything, right?
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Like I was hungry and I needed to pay bills.
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I would talk to someone and if I could sell them, whatever I could sell them, I would sell it.
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And I think that's how many new firm owners think, right?
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Like I gotta, Get something so that I can, do the work so I can keep my family, whatever, But now thinking more strategically, I think it really makes a lot of sense now to think about who you want to serve and how you're going to serve them first, before you even get to the sales conversation.
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So figure out your ICP.
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So that's essentially who's the most important customer to you, And once you figure out who that persona is.
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Then you can kind of figure out what package offering you're going to create.
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And then you can go to market.
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And that's what they call it on the tech side is go to market.
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so it used to be rain making and the accounting firm, right?
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Like you would make it rain with customers.
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you're a rainmaker partner, but actually when you think in terms of technology and I would say the new firm model, you're thinking in terms of go to market and truly a sales process.
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and so before you even go to sell something, you need to know what it is you're selling.
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And so that's where I would step back and say, okay, what am I going to sell?
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And then say, okay, now, how am I going to go to market and how am I going to sell it?
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And who am I going to sell it to?
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and where am I going to sell it?
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am I going to go online?
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And is it going to be like a digital storefront and people are going to sign up for something.
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And then a salesperson is going to call them back.
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That salesperson may be you because you're the only employee, but still, are you going to call them back?
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are they coming in your front door of your website?
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Are they, are you in an office?
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Are they knocking on your door?
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Or, maybe, you're on social and you're just starting to talk about, you're doing more content marketing and you're talking about things and having, leads come in that way.
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So I think the way Rainmakers used to work in the old days is very different than the way you make it rain today for an accounting firm.
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Would you agree with that?
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I would agree with that.
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I think there are a couple of additions that I would make and let me say as, as decimal being part of this new wave of accounting companies, we've grown our business from zero to 650 clients in four and a half years.
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And so we've gone through a lot of iterations of this and we acquired about 250 clients.
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So.
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400.
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One of the things that I think is really important is that you kind of tap danced around, but I want to hit on very specifically.
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You should not only figure out what you want to sell, but also figure out the price and what is your price and each price you may give a fixed price, but the reality is you have a range.
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When that range is man on my best day, I sold that 50 deal for a hundred bucks and that's extra margin.
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I'm pumped on your worst day.
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Can you sell it for 30 and still be profitable?
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Cause you have to understand the difference between good revenue and bad revenue.
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And every single one of us will sell bad revenue deals.
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in the first year of business.
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That's okay.
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Just make sure you really start to understand as you're selling, what is the good revenue and what is the bad revenue?
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Because as you grow, you don't want bad revenue to take up too much time when it can be replaced with good revenue.
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And so that's another thing that I put in there is as you decide what you want to sell, decide how you want to price it in a way that helps you grow.
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to what you want to be.
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Not everybody wants to do 650 growth over four years.
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That's totally understandable.
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You can build an amazing practice with 30 clients, but really think through what you want to do.
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And the second thing is, and you mentioned this, when you are building a firm, when you're building a business, you as the owner should do the sales.
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Period, until you at least get to about a million dollars in business, you should be the one selling because nobody's going to understand better than you what to learn, how quickly to change.
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You're going to adapt your pitch.
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You know, Jody is, as you've seen in building, you talk to people that aren't great, but then you know, okay, I'm not going to talk to that single person consultant.
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Like they're just not going to buy what I have.
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They don't have the price point.
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So anytime somebody comes in, that's a single person consultant, I'm going to say, Hey, hey, Hey, Can't help you would love to, but here's my minimum price.
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It helps move things along.
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And you're the only one that can learn that you're also the only one that can adaptably price.
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And so many people just don't want to do sales and they hire for it way too quickly.
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And then I guarantee you build bad revenue.
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And that's a big problem.
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Yeah.
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And I think the other thing about sales is when you're the owner and you're doing the first initial sales, people are really forgiving of you.
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If you know what you're talking about, you don't have to be the perfect closer with like some sort of like, I don't know, snazzy snazzy sales line or some sort of like.
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Grease Stack Care, Gordon Gecko style, like I think accountants think that, oh, like I don't have to like, or like I, I don't know, sales'cause like, I don't know the hooks and I don't know like how to close.
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And I like, you know what?
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At the end of the day, if you're honest and genuine about helping your client see something special within their books or within their tax return or whatever, and you show that knowledge.
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Then that client is going to respond to that as you being like a person who can solve their problem and they will pay for it.
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And you don't have to have some fancy PowerPoint or something like
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that.
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Cause I think too many people get caught in the, the, Oh my God, I didn't go to sales training school.
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And you can go to sales training school online, which I don't know.
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I would argue about like, I think there's things to be taken.
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But you can learn a lot of sales just by being honest and genuine and knowing your product, knowing what it is you sell and knowing how to do it.
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So that confidence with that will take you a long way.
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And guess what?
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You don't always price everything right.
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Like you're going to make mistakes along the way.
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That's okay.
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But it's a muscle.
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And as soon as you do it, you just learn it and you keep increasing it.
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And then you're going to be able to tell whoever it is you hire longer term, how to sell or what to sell.
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and the other thing is, is if people are around when, and I say around, cause it's harder now without intentionally getting them to be around.
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But if some of your team members, let's say are around and they hear how you They'll start picking up on the keywords that you say, and they'll start repeating them, even when they're already in client work and they're seeing an opportunity to sell something else.
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Cause I think that's the other piece that gets so overlooked in firms because people just do work and then sometimes it gets billed.
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Sometimes it doesn't because of the billable hour mentality.
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But if you can teach your, accountants like what to look for that's outside of scope and then they can have that conversation with a client about like additional services that they can help on and put a price on you teach them how to sell and they learn it organically by again, helping their clients, which is, it's a very different mentality.
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Then you're solving the problem instead of selling their, selling them a solution to the problem.
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And I think that makes a big difference.
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Well, and I think you've hit on something that is really powerful.
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One of the reasons I absolutely love this industry is because you are selling something they have to do.
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Right.
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Period.
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And that is, I can't tell you.
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I've been in a bunch of different industries.
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That's amazing.
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And it's an awesome place to be in.
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And so any, anybody that's in accounting that's selling, like stop and think, all right, they have to do this.
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How do I show them I'm the right person?
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And then how do I give them the right price?
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And if you can internalize those three things, guess what?
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There's your free sales training and don't go pay for the class.
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But I do think too, tactically, I think we're at a very big change point in sales tactics.
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And I want to make sure we spend a little bit of time on the tactics of it, because even in the four and a half years that decimal has been around, there's been an astronomical change in what I would recommend and how to do things.
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And it's really a boomerang, which is fascinating.
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It used to be like Jody, when you started so much of your client base, so much of your growth, or even your dad's growth was local people that knew people that knew people that knew it was that network hopping.
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And, and then all of a sudden you had outbound, you had LinkedIn messaging, you have emails, you have all of this, like.
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Great stuff that you can do to talk to business owners from your desk, which by the way, it's still somewhat effective, but the efficacy of those tactics, I see a lot of people saying like, Hey, build an outbound email channel, start LinkedIn messaging people.
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Like that's how you build your book of business.
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Well, the reality is on all of that.
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Is the advent of AI and the improvement of these tools has made it so that those are way less effective than they ever have been.
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And I think that's really important to, internalize for people is thinking about how they do it is really important.
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And I wanted to say like what we've seen to be effective and what I've seen for smaller firms is a big change.
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It's going back to the way things used to be.
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And doing things more industry specific, more in person, more network hopping.
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and I think that's something as you build your business to really think about is, is that an effective way to continue to build trust?
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So, so the interesting thing about that Matt is, and I, I think we've talked about it in the past, if not on the podcast is initially like, The early adopters of the cloud were online and they kind of figured out like how to get all the people who were already online, right?
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Like the people who hang out online, they, they captured all those customers already, right.
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Or they're, they're capturing them, but there are so many.
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And I live in an area of the country.
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That is usually 10 years behind.
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Um, it's very, I mean, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin
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and beautiful country go Packers.
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Yes, but, but it's a little bit behind, but now those small businesses in my town, Sturgeon Bay, which is 25 minutes from me.
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So just mind you, I have to drive 25 minutes to get to the town of eight of 8, 000 people.
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So you can imagine where I live in the farms, right?
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And those business owners are now ready for the internet.
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And it's funny because you say, Oh, they're ready for the internet.
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Now, the accountant in town is old school, doesn't even direct deposit their paychecks.
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And I'm talking at the people.
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I'm talking to the woman who owns the beauty shop.
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She owns a few different Airbnbs.
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She's like truly an entrepreneur and does a lot in the town.
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And.
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The accountant who is in that town is old school and fill it on the cloud.
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And so when she talks to me, it's like a breath of fresh air.
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And she's like, oh, like I would love this.
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So it's kind of, now it's like if you go back to that local and you're able to sell them services that they haven't been introduced by these old school accountants.
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And maybe they wouldn't go to look online for'em, but they want the new, the, I'll call it new age.
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It's not new age, but they want, they want real time accounting is what they want.
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And they want real time access to the information in their business.
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There's a whole market full of these businesses that are ready for it.
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And to me, that was like a real eye opener.
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And I was like, yeah, because I was like that early adopter.
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And I, I take, I like chase the digital natives, but these now are like regular businesses who are saying, yeah, I want to be in the cloud.
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I want to run my business better.
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Nobody ever offered me.
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That choice because I go to an old school firm and, and that old school firm is a big old school firm because it's been through multiple acquis, it originally was a smaller firm, but now it's pretty big because it's, you know, it's been eaten up.
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So it's quite interesting when you see like how it's kind of going the other way.
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Well, and I think, I think one thing there that, that is key to that story, cause I've heard that a million times as well is You have this newer generation of entrepreneur, a business owner, and even people that are taking over their parents businesses, that you sell them more based on the output or the end result of what you're selling.
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They care less about how you do it.
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A business owner doesn't care about gap accounting.
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What they care about is real time information in real time.
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And, or they don't care about.
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Hey, give me bill dot com.
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What they care about is, Hey, I don't have to print something off.
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I don't have to deal with this paper.
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It's a lot faster.
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Also, who the heck still writes paper checks like they they're doing all of these things.
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And, and if you're selling them on the output and the end result, when I say output, I mean the end result of these tasks, then all of a sudden you've changed from that Old school accounting firm in the small town, which is saying, Hey, I'm going to do your books.
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We're going to get your taxes done.
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You're going to be great.
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And they're like, I kind of need more than that, but it's the only person I'm talking to versus like, Hey, I can make sure that your bills are paid on time.
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It takes you no time at all.
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You can look at your books any minute of every day, see that they're done, see how your business is doing.
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We can put some reporting together to see the levers of the business.
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Maybe you're over or under inventory or you don't have enough, upcoming appointments or whatever you need to do to financially make sure that you're okay as a business owner, then all of a sudden they're like, wow, they're actually going to help me sleep better at night and they're going to take time away from me.
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And all of a sudden I can work less and do more.
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This is great.
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Those are the types of things that I think you're really selling in the outcome output results.
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Absolutely.
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And I think it's funny because when I had that conversation, she said, well, how come nobody's ever told me about this?
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And I was like, I, I don't know.
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Right.
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And you think, okay, here is a client of this firm and they would have had the opportunity to transition to cloud and to real time information.
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And it would have made everybody's life easier, but the old school partners never ever broached the subject and now she will go somewhere else.
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And she will go online or do you?
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Oh yeah.
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Because now she knows there's, there's another option, right?
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Like before she didn't realize there was anything different, but now she knows there's another option.
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You should be able to run the finance function of your business with a phone and no printer.
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If somebody's selling you a printer and a desktop machine with a, a bunch of hardware, They're selling it wrong.
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You may have other things in your business that you need the old school stuff, but the finance function doesn't need anything more than that.
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So, so that's been interesting to me about, you know, kind of like we're going back.
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But the other thing is, and I would say this is where social media comes in and I, I'm definitely a social media person, is about building that brand online.
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are and what you do because things will organically come to you if, as you build that brand.
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So, and this is long term play.
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This is not, it doesn't happen overnight.
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being active on social to me has always been the same as, you know, showing up at my kids baseball game.
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In on Facebook.
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Right.
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So like, to me, I would be like, if I'm on Facebook, it was the same as going to, the park during the baseball game.
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Right.
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Because it was my local area of people who were like seeing what I did.
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And to this day, even though I haven't owned a firm in five years, I still get inbound coming to me.
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saying, Hey, Jody, you know, can I, can you help me?
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Right.
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And then I do referrals, et cetera.
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So I think having a social presence is still critical.
00:17:23.017 --> 00:17:25.916
and you just have to realize it's a long term play.
00:17:26.067 --> 00:17:27.487
It's not overnight.
00:17:27.487 --> 00:17:30.866
It's building a reputation and that reputation just takes time to build.
00:17:31.346 --> 00:17:33.372
Well, and I think Look, there are two things.
00:17:33.422 --> 00:17:38.811
If I were start, if I were a single accountant starting my own firm, I would do two things.
00:17:38.942 --> 00:17:40.801
And one is a should do.
00:17:40.801 --> 00:17:46.582
And one is a be careful of should do pick an industry or two or three and be an expert in those.
00:17:46.761 --> 00:17:50.811
I would go industry specific all day long, find a niche and go straight for it.
00:17:51.102 --> 00:17:53.406
And maybe that niche isn't an industry, but it is.
00:17:53.686 --> 00:17:54.737
Small town Wisconsin.
00:17:55.307 --> 00:17:56.467
Travel to the small towns.
00:17:56.467 --> 00:17:58.616
Be that person for small town Wisconsin.
00:17:59.017 --> 00:18:03.826
I'd argue there are states that have small towns that are closer together, but you can pick Wisconsin.
00:18:05.487 --> 00:18:06.586
I would pick that niche.
00:18:06.767 --> 00:18:09.547
And industry specific is one way to do a niche.
00:18:09.717 --> 00:18:11.017
Location is another one.
00:18:11.497 --> 00:18:12.977
The other thing that I would be careful of.
00:18:13.176 --> 00:18:23.047
I 100 percent agree with you, Jody, that doing content, building your personal brand, the brand of your firm online is a great idea, but that's work that you should do.
00:18:23.446 --> 00:18:42.987
I see too many firms and business owners paying marketing companies, 10, 000, 15, 000, 8, 000 a month to do paid advertising or search engine optimization, things that have no ROI, but you think you should pay for marketing and you think you should pay for it.
00:18:43.537 --> 00:18:45.457
And you don't get the results.
00:18:46.146 --> 00:19:01.836
I'm not saying you shouldn't do those things, but you can do them in a way that starts to test their efficacy and builds your trust in them and shows you a true ROI without the, I'm gonna waste a bunch of money because somebody said I need to do marketing.
00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:02.906
Right.
00:19:02.916 --> 00:19:09.076
And I think that's just going after marketing tactics without thinking about your bigger, broader marketing and brand strategy, right?
00:19:09.076 --> 00:19:12.027
So that, that's what happens is people say, Oh, I need to do marketing.
00:19:12.037 --> 00:19:13.076
So they like throw things.
00:19:13.446 --> 00:19:13.836
Right.
00:19:14.096 --> 00:19:17.366
So I, I, I think it's, it's interesting.
00:19:17.396 --> 00:19:19.866
I think there's so much opportunity for growth.
00:19:19.886 --> 00:19:22.116
I think there's so many new business owners.
00:19:22.436 --> 00:19:31.136
I think, that if you have the right attitude, like you can grow a firm exponentially today, much easier.
00:19:31.612 --> 00:19:34.692
Then you could in, because the world is your oyster.
00:19:34.692 --> 00:19:36.932
I mean, your world is huge.
00:19:37.241 --> 00:19:43.731
Um, you don't have to, they don't have to be, you're not limited to the, 1100 people that are in my town.
00:19:45.622 --> 00:19:46.751
It's way easier.
00:19:46.771 --> 00:19:48.162
There are so many more opportunities.
00:19:48.192 --> 00:19:53.807
I talked to an amazing firm owner the other day whose entire business is expats.
00:19:54.237 --> 00:19:58.537
Doing consulting work in the U S who'd ever thought like it was amazing.
00:19:58.896 --> 00:20:03.527
There are tons of opportunities like that, and it's only going to get easier.
00:20:03.707 --> 00:20:13.683
So Jody, with that awesome conversation today, thank you so much for tuning into the accounting for innovation podcast brought to you by decimal and the radical CPA.
00:20:14.328 --> 00:20:18.009
You can find more great episodes anywhere you listen to podcasts.
00:20:18.439 --> 00:20:25.398
And please don't forget to pick up Jody's new book, Radical Pricing, How to Optimize Profits, Delight Clients, and Build a Top Value Firm.
00:20:25.618 --> 00:20:27.709
And as always, Jody and I would love to connect on LinkedIn.
00:20:28.169 --> 00:20:28.638
Thanks, everyone.
00:00:00.644 --> 00:00:08.003
Welcome to the Accounting for Innovation podcast, where we explore cutting edge strategies and insights into the world of accounting and finance.
00:00:08.464 --> 00:00:14.544
Presented by Decimal and the Radical CPA, each episode dives deep into industry trends.
00:00:14.884 --> 00:00:23.164
Whether you're a seasoned professional or a budding entrepreneur, join us as we unpack key concepts and share practical tips to drive success.
00:00:26.158 --> 00:00:28.458
Welcome to the accounting for innovation podcast.
00:00:28.829 --> 00:00:35.198
I'm Jodi Paydar, the radical CPA, and I've been at the forefront of innovation in the accounting industry for over 15 years.
00:00:35.478 --> 00:00:43.109
My co host, Bat Tate is the CEO of Decimal, one of the fastest growing accounting companies in the country and is an accounting innovator.
00:00:43.301 --> 00:00:43.972
Thanks Jodi.
00:00:44.212 --> 00:00:50.692
It's been a fun season as we're talking about a lot of things hitting the accounting industry, but today is right in my sweet spot.
00:00:50.752 --> 00:00:53.481
And I really am excited to talk about growth.
00:00:54.192 --> 00:00:58.572
How as a firm owner or as an accountant, do you grow your firm?
00:00:58.572 --> 00:01:00.121
Do you get into sales?
00:01:00.451 --> 00:01:06.322
And do you really learn about how can I do this in the most cost effective and effective way?
00:01:06.736 --> 00:01:15.076
And Jodi, as somebody that has built and run her own firm, and I would say multiple businesses, including a very well selling book.
00:01:15.647 --> 00:01:20.246
What are some of the places, where are some of the places that you start in thinking about growth and selling?
00:01:21.027 --> 00:01:25.516
if I were to go back to my former self, I would sell to everyone, everything, right?
00:01:25.516 --> 00:01:27.906
Like I was hungry and I needed to pay bills.
00:01:28.007 --> 00:01:32.887
I would talk to someone and if I could sell them, whatever I could sell them, I would sell it.
00:01:32.966 --> 00:01:36.557
And I think that's how many new firm owners think, right?
00:01:36.557 --> 00:01:51.882
Like I gotta, Get something so that I can, do the work so I can keep my family, whatever, But now thinking more strategically, I think it really makes a lot of sense now to think about who you want to serve and how you're going to serve them first, before you even get to the sales conversation.
00:01:52.072 --> 00:01:53.522
So figure out your ICP.
00:01:53.531 --> 00:02:00.432
So that's essentially who's the most important customer to you, And once you figure out who that persona is.
00:02:00.986 --> 00:02:04.887
Then you can kind of figure out what package offering you're going to create.
00:02:05.236 --> 00:02:06.826
And then you can go to market.
00:02:07.057 --> 00:02:09.377
And that's what they call it on the tech side is go to market.
00:02:09.426 --> 00:02:12.007
so it used to be rain making and the accounting firm, right?
00:02:12.007 --> 00:02:14.086
Like you would make it rain with customers.
00:02:14.377 --> 00:02:24.417
you're a rainmaker partner, but actually when you think in terms of technology and I would say the new firm model, you're thinking in terms of go to market and truly a sales process.
00:02:25.016 --> 00:02:28.757
and so before you even go to sell something, you need to know what it is you're selling.
00:02:28.787 --> 00:02:32.347
And so that's where I would step back and say, okay, what am I going to sell?
00:02:32.546 --> 00:02:36.806
And then say, okay, now, how am I going to go to market and how am I going to sell it?
00:02:36.847 --> 00:02:38.176
And who am I going to sell it to?
00:02:38.266 --> 00:02:39.306
and where am I going to sell it?
00:02:39.306 --> 00:02:40.366
am I going to go online?
00:02:40.366 --> 00:02:44.227
And is it going to be like a digital storefront and people are going to sign up for something.
00:02:44.227 --> 00:02:45.986
And then a salesperson is going to call them back.
00:02:46.037 --> 00:02:50.456
That salesperson may be you because you're the only employee, but still, are you going to call them back?
00:02:50.516 --> 00:02:52.437
are they coming in your front door of your website?
00:02:52.637 --> 00:02:54.116
Are they, are you in an office?
00:02:54.176 --> 00:02:55.497
Are they knocking on your door?
00:02:55.907 --> 00:03:05.967
Or, maybe, you're on social and you're just starting to talk about, you're doing more content marketing and you're talking about things and having, leads come in that way.
00:03:06.187 --> 00:03:13.757
So I think the way Rainmakers used to work in the old days is very different than the way you make it rain today for an accounting firm.
00:03:13.806 --> 00:03:14.646
Would you agree with that?
00:03:15.336 --> 00:03:16.567
I would agree with that.
00:03:16.747 --> 00:03:32.176
I think there are a couple of additions that I would make and let me say as, as decimal being part of this new wave of accounting companies, we've grown our business from zero to 650 clients in four and a half years.
00:03:32.437 --> 00:03:37.067
And so we've gone through a lot of iterations of this and we acquired about 250 clients.
00:03:37.067 --> 00:03:37.326
So.
00:03:37.576 --> 00:03:38.127
400.
00:03:39.016 --> 00:03:45.206
One of the things that I think is really important is that you kind of tap danced around, but I want to hit on very specifically.
00:03:45.687 --> 00:03:55.276
You should not only figure out what you want to sell, but also figure out the price and what is your price and each price you may give a fixed price, but the reality is you have a range.
00:03:55.852 --> 00:04:02.301
When that range is man on my best day, I sold that 50 deal for a hundred bucks and that's extra margin.
00:04:02.331 --> 00:04:04.792
I'm pumped on your worst day.
00:04:04.831 --> 00:04:07.382
Can you sell it for 30 and still be profitable?
00:04:07.831 --> 00:04:11.171
Cause you have to understand the difference between good revenue and bad revenue.
00:04:11.532 --> 00:04:14.681
And every single one of us will sell bad revenue deals.
00:04:14.972 --> 00:04:16.362
in the first year of business.
00:04:16.701 --> 00:04:17.432
That's okay.
00:04:17.872 --> 00:04:23.591
Just make sure you really start to understand as you're selling, what is the good revenue and what is the bad revenue?
00:04:24.101 --> 00:04:29.942
Because as you grow, you don't want bad revenue to take up too much time when it can be replaced with good revenue.
00:04:30.591 --> 00:04:39.351
And so that's another thing that I put in there is as you decide what you want to sell, decide how you want to price it in a way that helps you grow.
00:04:39.682 --> 00:04:40.482
to what you want to be.
00:04:40.781 --> 00:04:44.581
Not everybody wants to do 650 growth over four years.
00:04:44.632 --> 00:04:45.961
That's totally understandable.
00:04:45.971 --> 00:04:50.632
You can build an amazing practice with 30 clients, but really think through what you want to do.
00:04:51.072 --> 00:05:00.732
And the second thing is, and you mentioned this, when you are building a firm, when you're building a business, you as the owner should do the sales.
00:05:00.997 --> 00:05:13.276
Period, until you at least get to about a million dollars in business, you should be the one selling because nobody's going to understand better than you what to learn, how quickly to change.
00:05:13.547 --> 00:05:15.107
You're going to adapt your pitch.
00:05:15.557 --> 00:05:23.447
You know, Jody is, as you've seen in building, you talk to people that aren't great, but then you know, okay, I'm not going to talk to that single person consultant.
00:05:23.716 --> 00:05:25.187
Like they're just not going to buy what I have.
00:05:25.187 --> 00:05:26.427
They don't have the price point.
00:05:26.427 --> 00:05:33.536
So anytime somebody comes in, that's a single person consultant, I'm going to say, Hey, hey, Hey, Can't help you would love to, but here's my minimum price.
00:05:33.916 --> 00:05:35.536
It helps move things along.
00:05:36.007 --> 00:05:40.226
And you're the only one that can learn that you're also the only one that can adaptably price.
00:05:40.817 --> 00:05:46.716
And so many people just don't want to do sales and they hire for it way too quickly.
00:05:47.117 --> 00:05:49.396
And then I guarantee you build bad revenue.
00:05:49.737 --> 00:05:51.057
And that's a big problem.
00:05:51.846 --> 00:05:52.137
Yeah.
00:05:52.137 --> 00:06:01.247
And I think the other thing about sales is when you're the owner and you're doing the first initial sales, people are really forgiving of you.
00:06:01.276 --> 00:06:11.797
If you know what you're talking about, you don't have to be the perfect closer with like some sort of like, I don't know, snazzy snazzy sales line or some sort of like.
00:06:11.851 --> 00:06:21.992
Grease Stack Care, Gordon Gecko style, like I think accountants think that, oh, like I don't have to like, or like I, I don't know, sales'cause like, I don't know the hooks and I don't know like how to close.
00:06:21.992 --> 00:06:23.581
And I like, you know what?
00:06:23.581 --> 00:06:34.351
At the end of the day, if you're honest and genuine about helping your client see something special within their books or within their tax return or whatever, and you show that knowledge.
00:06:34.976 --> 00:06:41.257
Then that client is going to respond to that as you being like a person who can solve their problem and they will pay for it.
00:06:41.297 --> 00:06:44.166
And you don't have to have some fancy PowerPoint or something like
00:06:44.166 --> 00:06:44.497
that.
00:06:44.497 --> 00:06:50.377
Cause I think too many people get caught in the, the, Oh my God, I didn't go to sales training school.
00:06:50.377 --> 00:06:54.677
And you can go to sales training school online, which I don't know.
00:06:54.766 --> 00:06:58.387
I would argue about like, I think there's things to be taken.
00:06:58.742 --> 00:07:06.812
But you can learn a lot of sales just by being honest and genuine and knowing your product, knowing what it is you sell and knowing how to do it.
00:07:06.822 --> 00:07:10.021
So that confidence with that will take you a long way.
00:07:10.062 --> 00:07:10.732
And guess what?
00:07:10.732 --> 00:07:12.192
You don't always price everything right.
00:07:12.411 --> 00:07:14.632
Like you're going to make mistakes along the way.
00:07:14.682 --> 00:07:15.492
That's okay.
00:07:15.757 --> 00:07:17.286
But it's a muscle.
00:07:17.507 --> 00:07:20.927
And as soon as you do it, you just learn it and you keep increasing it.
00:07:20.966 --> 00:07:27.156
And then you're going to be able to tell whoever it is you hire longer term, how to sell or what to sell.
00:07:27.677 --> 00:07:36.547
and the other thing is, is if people are around when, and I say around, cause it's harder now without intentionally getting them to be around.
00:07:36.887 --> 00:07:50.812
But if some of your team members, let's say are around and they hear how you They'll start picking up on the keywords that you say, and they'll start repeating them, even when they're already in client work and they're seeing an opportunity to sell something else.
00:07:51.031 --> 00:07:59.052
Cause I think that's the other piece that gets so overlooked in firms because people just do work and then sometimes it gets billed.
00:07:59.052 --> 00:08:02.482
Sometimes it doesn't because of the billable hour mentality.
00:08:02.732 --> 00:08:23.512
But if you can teach your, accountants like what to look for that's outside of scope and then they can have that conversation with a client about like additional services that they can help on and put a price on you teach them how to sell and they learn it organically by again, helping their clients, which is, it's a very different mentality.
00:08:23.906 --> 00:08:28.607
Then you're solving the problem instead of selling their, selling them a solution to the problem.
00:08:28.656 --> 00:08:30.047
And I think that makes a big difference.
00:08:30.206 --> 00:08:33.886
Well, and I think you've hit on something that is really powerful.
00:08:33.927 --> 00:08:40.076
One of the reasons I absolutely love this industry is because you are selling something they have to do.
00:08:41.356 --> 00:08:41.606
Right.
00:08:41.626 --> 00:08:41.966
Period.
00:08:42.626 --> 00:08:44.356
And that is, I can't tell you.
00:08:44.386 --> 00:08:46.397
I've been in a bunch of different industries.
00:08:46.616 --> 00:08:47.437
That's amazing.
00:08:47.447 --> 00:08:49.197
And it's an awesome place to be in.
00:08:49.197 --> 00:08:55.157
And so any, anybody that's in accounting that's selling, like stop and think, all right, they have to do this.
00:08:55.767 --> 00:08:57.657
How do I show them I'm the right person?
00:08:58.096 --> 00:09:00.006
And then how do I give them the right price?
00:09:00.417 --> 00:09:04.037
And if you can internalize those three things, guess what?
00:09:04.157 --> 00:09:06.907
There's your free sales training and don't go pay for the class.
00:09:07.596 --> 00:09:15.106
But I do think too, tactically, I think we're at a very big change point in sales tactics.
00:09:15.106 --> 00:09:26.187
And I want to make sure we spend a little bit of time on the tactics of it, because even in the four and a half years that decimal has been around, there's been an astronomical change in what I would recommend and how to do things.
00:09:26.451 --> 00:09:28.491
And it's really a boomerang, which is fascinating.
00:09:28.672 --> 00:09:42.481
It used to be like Jody, when you started so much of your client base, so much of your growth, or even your dad's growth was local people that knew people that knew people that knew it was that network hopping.
00:09:43.011 --> 00:09:49.261
And, and then all of a sudden you had outbound, you had LinkedIn messaging, you have emails, you have all of this, like.
00:09:49.642 --> 00:10:06.011
Great stuff that you can do to talk to business owners from your desk, which by the way, it's still somewhat effective, but the efficacy of those tactics, I see a lot of people saying like, Hey, build an outbound email channel, start LinkedIn messaging people.
00:10:06.162 --> 00:10:08.192
Like that's how you build your book of business.
00:10:08.481 --> 00:10:10.552
Well, the reality is on all of that.
00:10:10.861 --> 00:10:20.392
Is the advent of AI and the improvement of these tools has made it so that those are way less effective than they ever have been.
00:10:20.892 --> 00:10:29.522
And I think that's really important to, internalize for people is thinking about how they do it is really important.
00:10:30.292 --> 00:10:36.662
And I wanted to say like what we've seen to be effective and what I've seen for smaller firms is a big change.
00:10:36.662 --> 00:10:39.442
It's going back to the way things used to be.
00:10:40.642 --> 00:10:45.902
And doing things more industry specific, more in person, more network hopping.
00:10:46.341 --> 00:10:53.341
and I think that's something as you build your business to really think about is, is that an effective way to continue to build trust?
00:10:53.642 --> 00:11:11.226
So, so the interesting thing about that Matt is, and I, I think we've talked about it in the past, if not on the podcast is initially like, The early adopters of the cloud were online and they kind of figured out like how to get all the people who were already online, right?
00:11:11.226 --> 00:11:15.807
Like the people who hang out online, they, they captured all those customers already, right.
00:11:15.807 --> 00:11:19.927
Or they're, they're capturing them, but there are so many.
00:11:19.927 --> 00:11:21.966
And I live in an area of the country.
00:11:22.167 --> 00:11:24.777
That is usually 10 years behind.
00:11:25.006 --> 00:11:27.626
Um, it's very, I mean, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin
00:11:27.996 --> 00:11:30.986
and beautiful country go Packers.
00:11:31.287 --> 00:11:40.697
Yes, but, but it's a little bit behind, but now those small businesses in my town, Sturgeon Bay, which is 25 minutes from me.
00:11:40.726 --> 00:11:45.397
So just mind you, I have to drive 25 minutes to get to the town of eight of 8, 000 people.
00:11:45.397 --> 00:11:48.076
So you can imagine where I live in the farms, right?
00:11:48.672 --> 00:11:52.861
And those business owners are now ready for the internet.
00:11:52.912 --> 00:11:55.761
And it's funny because you say, Oh, they're ready for the internet.
00:11:56.042 --> 00:12:01.341
Now, the accountant in town is old school, doesn't even direct deposit their paychecks.
00:12:01.572 --> 00:12:03.711
And I'm talking at the people.
00:12:03.761 --> 00:12:06.662
I'm talking to the woman who owns the beauty shop.
00:12:06.662 --> 00:12:08.971
She owns a few different Airbnbs.
00:12:09.162 --> 00:12:13.501
She's like truly an entrepreneur and does a lot in the town.
00:12:13.812 --> 00:12:14.392
And.
00:12:15.067 --> 00:12:19.767
The accountant who is in that town is old school and fill it on the cloud.
00:12:19.947 --> 00:12:22.527
And so when she talks to me, it's like a breath of fresh air.
00:12:22.527 --> 00:12:24.356
And she's like, oh, like I would love this.
00:12:24.356 --> 00:12:33.836
So it's kind of, now it's like if you go back to that local and you're able to sell them services that they haven't been introduced by these old school accountants.
00:12:33.897 --> 00:12:40.136
And maybe they wouldn't go to look online for'em, but they want the new, the, I'll call it new age.
00:12:40.142 --> 00:12:44.187
It's not new age, but they want, they want real time accounting is what they want.
00:12:44.807 --> 00:12:47.636
And they want real time access to the information in their business.
00:12:48.236 --> 00:12:54.236
There's a whole market full of these businesses that are ready for it.
00:12:54.466 --> 00:12:56.726
And to me, that was like a real eye opener.
00:12:56.907 --> 00:12:59.807
And I was like, yeah, because I was like that early adopter.
00:12:59.817 --> 00:13:08.246
And I, I take, I like chase the digital natives, but these now are like regular businesses who are saying, yeah, I want to be in the cloud.
00:13:08.437 --> 00:13:09.876
I want to run my business better.
00:13:10.057 --> 00:13:11.567
Nobody ever offered me.
00:13:11.787 --> 00:13:24.876
That choice because I go to an old school firm and, and that old school firm is a big old school firm because it's been through multiple acquis, it originally was a smaller firm, but now it's pretty big because it's, you know, it's been eaten up.
00:13:25.197 --> 00:13:30.067
So it's quite interesting when you see like how it's kind of going the other way.
00:13:30.086 --> 00:13:52.121
Well, and I think, I think one thing there that, that is key to that story, cause I've heard that a million times as well is You have this newer generation of entrepreneur, a business owner, and even people that are taking over their parents businesses, that you sell them more based on the output or the end result of what you're selling.
00:13:53.351 --> 00:13:55.432
They care less about how you do it.
00:13:55.822 --> 00:13:58.131
A business owner doesn't care about gap accounting.
00:13:58.642 --> 00:14:01.432
What they care about is real time information in real time.
00:14:02.971 --> 00:14:04.881
And, or they don't care about.
00:14:05.157 --> 00:14:06.677
Hey, give me bill dot com.
00:14:06.677 --> 00:14:09.527
What they care about is, Hey, I don't have to print something off.
00:14:09.767 --> 00:14:10.986
I don't have to deal with this paper.
00:14:11.157 --> 00:14:12.326
It's a lot faster.
00:14:12.606 --> 00:14:17.226
Also, who the heck still writes paper checks like they they're doing all of these things.
00:14:17.226 --> 00:14:32.011
And, and if you're selling them on the output and the end result, when I say output, I mean the end result of these tasks, then all of a sudden you've changed from that Old school accounting firm in the small town, which is saying, Hey, I'm going to do your books.
00:14:32.011 --> 00:14:33.552
We're going to get your taxes done.
00:14:33.782 --> 00:14:34.481
You're going to be great.
00:14:34.562 --> 00:14:42.572
And they're like, I kind of need more than that, but it's the only person I'm talking to versus like, Hey, I can make sure that your bills are paid on time.
00:14:42.611 --> 00:14:43.961
It takes you no time at all.
00:14:44.121 --> 00:14:48.922
You can look at your books any minute of every day, see that they're done, see how your business is doing.
00:14:49.226 --> 00:14:52.317
We can put some reporting together to see the levers of the business.
00:14:52.317 --> 00:15:07.480
Maybe you're over or under inventory or you don't have enough, upcoming appointments or whatever you need to do to financially make sure that you're okay as a business owner, then all of a sudden they're like, wow, they're actually going to help me sleep better at night and they're going to take time away from me.
00:15:07.950 --> 00:15:11.000
And all of a sudden I can work less and do more.
00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:11.870
This is great.
00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:17.539
Those are the types of things that I think you're really selling in the outcome output results.
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:20.029
Absolutely.
00:15:20.029 --> 00:15:27.559
And I think it's funny because when I had that conversation, she said, well, how come nobody's ever told me about this?
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.820
And I was like, I, I don't know.
00:15:30.830 --> 00:15:31.230
Right.
00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:42.059
And you think, okay, here is a client of this firm and they would have had the opportunity to transition to cloud and to real time information.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:49.799
And it would have made everybody's life easier, but the old school partners never ever broached the subject and now she will go somewhere else.
00:15:50.205 --> 00:15:51.995
And she will go online or do you?
00:15:52.054 --> 00:15:52.365
Oh yeah.
00:15:52.414 --> 00:15:54.674
Because now she knows there's, there's another option, right?
00:15:54.695 --> 00:15:58.514
Like before she didn't realize there was anything different, but now she knows there's another option.
00:15:58.945 --> 00:16:02.565
You should be able to run the finance function of your business with a phone and no printer.
00:16:03.414 --> 00:16:09.914
If somebody's selling you a printer and a desktop machine with a, a bunch of hardware, They're selling it wrong.
00:16:09.924 --> 00:16:15.554
You may have other things in your business that you need the old school stuff, but the finance function doesn't need anything more than that.
00:16:16.884 --> 00:16:22.294
So, so that's been interesting to me about, you know, kind of like we're going back.
00:16:22.894 --> 00:16:31.934
But the other thing is, and I would say this is where social media comes in and I, I'm definitely a social media person, is about building that brand online.
00:16:32.195 --> 00:16:39.664
are and what you do because things will organically come to you if, as you build that brand.
00:16:39.664 --> 00:16:41.815
So, and this is long term play.
00:16:41.835 --> 00:16:43.764
This is not, it doesn't happen overnight.
00:16:44.215 --> 00:16:52.951
being active on social to me has always been the same as, you know, showing up at my kids baseball game.
00:16:53.292 --> 00:16:54.511
In on Facebook.
00:16:54.572 --> 00:16:54.851
Right.
00:16:54.851 --> 00:17:00.741
So like, to me, I would be like, if I'm on Facebook, it was the same as going to, the park during the baseball game.
00:17:00.741 --> 00:17:01.172
Right.
00:17:01.272 --> 00:17:06.571
Because it was my local area of people who were like seeing what I did.
00:17:06.622 --> 00:17:12.701
And to this day, even though I haven't owned a firm in five years, I still get inbound coming to me.
00:17:12.866 --> 00:17:16.467
saying, Hey, Jody, you know, can I, can you help me?
00:17:16.467 --> 00:17:16.787
Right.
00:17:17.057 --> 00:17:18.876
And then I do referrals, et cetera.
00:17:18.886 --> 00:17:22.616
So I think having a social presence is still critical.
00:17:23.017 --> 00:17:25.916
and you just have to realize it's a long term play.
00:17:26.067 --> 00:17:27.487
It's not overnight.
00:17:27.487 --> 00:17:30.866
It's building a reputation and that reputation just takes time to build.
00:17:31.346 --> 00:17:33.372
Well, and I think Look, there are two things.
00:17:33.422 --> 00:17:38.811
If I were start, if I were a single accountant starting my own firm, I would do two things.
00:17:38.942 --> 00:17:40.801
And one is a should do.
00:17:40.801 --> 00:17:46.582
And one is a be careful of should do pick an industry or two or three and be an expert in those.
00:17:46.761 --> 00:17:50.811
I would go industry specific all day long, find a niche and go straight for it.
00:17:51.102 --> 00:17:53.406
And maybe that niche isn't an industry, but it is.
00:17:53.686 --> 00:17:54.737
Small town Wisconsin.
00:17:55.307 --> 00:17:56.467
Travel to the small towns.
00:17:56.467 --> 00:17:58.616
Be that person for small town Wisconsin.
00:17:59.017 --> 00:18:03.826
I'd argue there are states that have small towns that are closer together, but you can pick Wisconsin.
00:18:05.487 --> 00:18:06.586
I would pick that niche.
00:18:06.767 --> 00:18:09.547
And industry specific is one way to do a niche.
00:18:09.717 --> 00:18:11.017
Location is another one.
00:18:11.497 --> 00:18:12.977
The other thing that I would be careful of.
00:18:13.176 --> 00:18:23.047
I 100 percent agree with you, Jody, that doing content, building your personal brand, the brand of your firm online is a great idea, but that's work that you should do.
00:18:23.446 --> 00:18:42.987
I see too many firms and business owners paying marketing companies, 10, 000, 15, 000, 8, 000 a month to do paid advertising or search engine optimization, things that have no ROI, but you think you should pay for marketing and you think you should pay for it.
00:18:43.537 --> 00:18:45.457
And you don't get the results.
00:18:46.146 --> 00:19:01.836
I'm not saying you shouldn't do those things, but you can do them in a way that starts to test their efficacy and builds your trust in them and shows you a true ROI without the, I'm gonna waste a bunch of money because somebody said I need to do marketing.
00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:02.906
Right.
00:19:02.916 --> 00:19:09.076
And I think that's just going after marketing tactics without thinking about your bigger, broader marketing and brand strategy, right?
00:19:09.076 --> 00:19:12.027
So that, that's what happens is people say, Oh, I need to do marketing.
00:19:12.037 --> 00:19:13.076
So they like throw things.
00:19:13.446 --> 00:19:13.836
Right.
00:19:14.096 --> 00:19:17.366
So I, I, I think it's, it's interesting.
00:19:17.396 --> 00:19:19.866
I think there's so much opportunity for growth.
00:19:19.886 --> 00:19:22.116
I think there's so many new business owners.
00:19:22.436 --> 00:19:31.136
I think, that if you have the right attitude, like you can grow a firm exponentially today, much easier.
00:19:31.612 --> 00:19:34.692
Then you could in, because the world is your oyster.
00:19:34.692 --> 00:19:36.932
I mean, your world is huge.
00:19:37.241 --> 00:19:43.731
Um, you don't have to, they don't have to be, you're not limited to the, 1100 people that are in my town.
00:19:45.622 --> 00:19:46.751
It's way easier.
00:19:46.771 --> 00:19:48.162
There are so many more opportunities.
00:19:48.192 --> 00:19:53.807
I talked to an amazing firm owner the other day whose entire business is expats.
00:19:54.237 --> 00:19:58.537
Doing consulting work in the U S who'd ever thought like it was amazing.
00:19:58.896 --> 00:20:03.527
There are tons of opportunities like that, and it's only going to get easier.
00:20:03.707 --> 00:20:13.683
So Jody, with that awesome conversation today, thank you so much for tuning into the accounting for innovation podcast brought to you by decimal and the radical CPA.
00:20:14.328 --> 00:20:18.009
You can find more great episodes anywhere you listen to podcasts.
00:20:18.439 --> 00:20:25.398
And please don't forget to pick up Jody's new book, Radical Pricing, How to Optimize Profits, Delight Clients, and Build a Top Value Firm.
00:20:25.618 --> 00:20:27.709
And as always, Jody and I would love to connect on LinkedIn.
00:20:28.169 --> 00:20:28.638
Thanks, everyone.
