#89 | Empowering Conversations: How Parents Can Support Their LGBTQ+ Children (LGBTQ Courage, Healing & Identity Safety)

Heather Hester
00:00:12
Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting, your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Heather Hester
00:00:24
My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here.

Heather Hester
00:00:29
I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Heather Hester
00:00:39
Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.

Heather Hester
00:00:56
Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Lori
00:01:14
Lori, thank you so much for being here today.

Lori
00:01:16
I am so glad that we are finally getting to have this conversation and just really excited, pick your brain and to learn more about what you do and your journey and how you started doing what you're doing.

Lori
00:01:33
So thank you so much for being here today.

Truly
00:01:36
Oh, thank you for having me, Truly.

Truly
00:01:38
When I saw your podcast pop up as something that could be interesting for me to listen to, I was like, wow, we have so much that we could discuss together, Truly.

Truly
00:01:49
You know, the journeys that you've been on and the people that you're serving and helping, it's so, so in line with what I'm.

Truly
00:01:56
I try to contribute to as well.

Truly
00:01:59
And that is just so nice to meet somebody else out there that is serving this community.

Truly
00:02:04
Truly.

Lori
00:02:05
Agreed.

Lori
00:02:06
I agreed.

Lori
00:02:06
It is always nice to come across someone you're like, oh, you know what?

Lori
00:02:10
I do.

Truly
00:02:12
You get it.

Truly
00:02:13
You get it.

Truly
00:02:14
We have the same brain speak.

Lori
00:02:16
Exactly, exactly.

Lori
00:02:17
It's so nice.

Lori
00:02:19
And there's not ever.

Lori
00:02:20
I mean, we are kind of few and far between, but not one of us has, like, the exact same experience.

Lori
00:02:26
So it is really cool, I think, to have these conversations too, because it's how we keep learning, right?

Truly
00:02:32
Absolutely.

Truly
00:02:33
Absolutely.

Truly
00:02:35
Well, I am a gender and sexuality holistic life coach.

Truly
00:02:41
I am also a teacher, and I have gone to college and furthered my education and got my master's in psychology, specializing in gender and sexual fluidity.

Truly
00:02:53
And what I had originally intended was to serve my school system in a way that hasn't been met and sort of helping contribute to the SEL's social emotional learning programs and create GSAs or create trainings for the staff.

Truly
00:03:12
And I found that there was a bigger need for the community, one on one, and for outside of the schools where people were looking for extra supports.

Truly
00:03:23
Yes, there's a need in the schools, but when I was coming across People that were looking for help, for community, for others out there that were going through the same things as them.

Truly
00:03:37
I saw that there was a need for things in my community for people to meet up, for education, for training parents on what is happening with their child, or for helping create connections between people that are either coming out or have been out and are dealing with what we call minority stress.

Truly
00:03:59
That's the different stigmas and homophobic experiences or transphobic experiences, or the overall things we come across the day that we kind of hold our breath through and at the end of the day feel fully and weigh on us.

Truly
00:04:20
So seeing all of that happening around me, I felt that it would be great to take my education and my experiences and go and serve the public in my community.

Truly
00:04:32
So I'm in New Jersey and when we see in the news that New Jersey seems like it's a very progressive state, I'm in the northwestern section where it's very rural and there is a lot of laws that are trying to get pushed through like in all the other states that are very anti gay, very.

Truly
00:04:57
Don't say gay if you will.

Truly
00:05:00
And there's not a lot of nonprofits or supports in this particular county that I'm in.

Truly
00:05:06
So the county above me and near me, that little corner there, that's where I'm trying to really get a lot of my programming that's in person happening because there really isn't anything around us and I'm serving virtually all over as well.

Lori
00:05:21
Right.

Truly
00:05:22
Because there's a lot of.

Truly
00:05:24
A lot of people out there that could use some help.

Lori
00:05:27
Yeah.

Truly
00:05:28
Specifically with my own personal experience.

Truly
00:05:31
I believe you asked about that I am a later in life lesbian, also a later in life gender fluid lesbian or a non binary, the big umbrella term.

Truly
00:05:42
And that simply means that for the gender aspect anyway, that I find myself very fluid.

Truly
00:05:49
I find myself internally as well as how I express externally.

Truly
00:05:54
Myself going and swaying between masculine and feminine.

Truly
00:05:58
Not always all the way, not on either ends.

Truly
00:06:01
It's usually close to either ends and going back and forth between.

Truly
00:06:05
So some days I will wake up and I'll just be feeling very much like a masculine energy running through me that I want the world to see me as that and refer to me as that.

Truly
00:06:19
And then there are times when I wake up and I'm just like really embracing my more feminine side.

Truly
00:06:24
And I will want the world to talk to me and express and be with me as though I am on that feminine side of the spectrum.

Truly
00:06:32
And then there are times when I just want to be both And I don't want anyone to recognize me as either one.

Truly
00:06:37
It's a very rollercoaster ride, if you will.

Truly
00:06:41
It can go for a month or two like that, or a day or two like that.

Truly
00:06:45
And it really is very, very fluid.

Truly
00:06:48
And as far as lesbian aspect, I find myself very interested in relationships and very attracted to people that are identifying as a woman.

Truly
00:07:03
So that for me was a very much more difficult realization to come to than it was for my gender.

Truly
00:07:10
So I already was sort of nonconforming to begin with.

Truly
00:07:13
I didn't realize that some of the ways that I was interacting with people would have felt more comfortable if I was discussed and I don't want to say interpreted, but experienced the way I was feeling internally, that it would have been more comfortable and make me feel happier.

Truly
00:07:35
But the harder thing for me to realize was that I can be in a relationship with a woman and it's okay to be in a relationship with a woman.

Truly
00:07:45
And that I even was attracted to women in general.

Truly
00:07:50
Like, that whole aspect of me just was ignored for the longest time and just pushed aside as a fad, or how do I put this?

Truly
00:08:02
My family would.

Truly
00:08:05
Would refer to it as like a passing phase.

Lori
00:08:07
Like a phase.

Truly
00:08:08
Right.

Truly
00:08:09
And people around me would call it girl crushes.

Truly
00:08:13
So it's kind of belittled or gaslit in a way, because you're.

Truly
00:08:18
You're starting to discuss with people that you feel comfortable with.

Truly
00:08:21
Like, oh, isn't that an interesting person?

Truly
00:08:23
I wonder what that person would be like if they asked me out.

Truly
00:08:27
And then you'd be told, what are you talking about?

Truly
00:08:29
Don't be silly.

Truly
00:08:30
You're interested in guys.

Truly
00:08:31
You've been dating guys.

Truly
00:08:33
And so like, oh, yeah, that's right.

Truly
00:08:34
You know, don't worry about it.

Truly
00:08:35
Like, I don't know what I was talking about.

Truly
00:08:36
Just a girl crush.

Truly
00:08:38
You know?

Truly
00:08:38
Why?

Lori
00:08:40
Instead of holding that space for that possibility.

Truly
00:08:43
Yes.

Truly
00:08:44
That wasn't even considered a possibility.

Truly
00:08:46
It was my own intuition about what I was feeling wasn't allowed to be explored, expressed, played around with, fantasized about in any way, shape or form explored as an identity.

Truly
00:09:03
So that identity phase, that formation of who we are truly happens when we're kids and is explored all the way through our 20s.

Truly
00:09:12
So we've got this huge section of our life that is our identity formation.

Truly
00:09:17
And during that whole section of our life where we're like, am I interested in soccer?

Truly
00:09:23
What religion do I like?

Truly
00:09:24
What kind of personality do I feel most comfortable expressing?

Truly
00:09:28
Who are my friends and what is the career that I'm interested in all those things that we see as what makes us up, who we are includes how we express our gender, how we feel about our gender, how we feel about our relationships, both friendships, people that we align with co worker wise, people that we align with in our family, people that we align with as mentors, people that we align with in hand holding and kissing, you know, that we want to feel love with and love instead of a friendship love, an actual romantic love.

Truly
00:09:59
So that whole section of our life, if we are being looking for role models or being able to express with our family and validated, then we can really truly form that.

Truly
00:10:13
But if we're not being validated in that, then we're kind of getting that feeling like, well then maybe this isn't something that I should be doing.

Truly
00:10:20
It's not safe.

Truly
00:10:21
It's going to get me pushed out of my family groups, my friend groups.

Truly
00:10:25
I'm not going to explore that now.

Truly
00:10:27
And then it comes out later on.

Truly
00:10:29
That's what happened to me.

Truly
00:10:29
It came out later on when I finally was able to safely explore that in some way, shape or form and have the confidence to be like, this is actually something I am interested in.

Truly
00:10:41
I don't know what you're talking about.

Truly
00:10:42
Like, I really am interested in this.

Lori
00:10:45
Right?

Truly
00:10:46
Yeah.

Truly
00:10:46
So then I came out later in life and shocked everybody.

Lori
00:10:52
Except for yourself, right?

Lori
00:10:54
Except for myself, yes, exactly.

Lori
00:10:57
Exactly.

Lori
00:10:58
I am curious because I love the way that you said all of that and expressed all of that because it makes it so very clear that there are all these different pieces, right?

Lori
00:11:09
And a lot of times, and I'm sure you found this too with people that you talk to, like there's kind of this panic, like when we're kind of talking about when people's children come out in whatever capacity it is.

Lori
00:11:20
And parents tend to panic if their child's, you know, first comes out, let's say as gay.

Lori
00:11:27
But then they're like, well, maybe, you know, maybe I'm also, you know, gender fluid, maybe I'm also trans.

Lori
00:11:36
Maybe I'm also right.

Lori
00:11:37
And they're like, well wait, they can't change their mind.

Lori
00:11:39
Like they already said that they're this.

Lori
00:11:41
So it has to be this.

Lori
00:11:42
And there's this piece of like this is a very fluid process.

Lori
00:11:46
And that doesn't mean that it's a phase.

Lori
00:11:48
That doesn't mean they don't know what it means actually is I.

Lori
00:11:52
And I'm wondering if you can give a little insight on this.

Lori
00:11:55
But to me, my thinking is that it's like, there's a space that's been given to them that's safe enough, where they feel like they can.

Truly
00:12:03
Yes.

Lori
00:12:04
Take a moment to explore.

Lori
00:12:05
But I wonder if you could expound on that a little bit.

Truly
00:12:09
I love that you mentioned that, like, you've.

Truly
00:12:11
The family has created that safe space for them, and that's something to be celebrated.

Truly
00:12:16
The fact that your child is coming to you, first of all, is huge.

Truly
00:12:22
Huge in the safe space that you've created for your child.

Truly
00:12:26
And then on top of it, that they feel safe enough to be like, hold on a second.

Truly
00:12:32
Parental unit, guardian of the galaxy.

Truly
00:12:34
I am so also interested in all these other things here, you know, and the fact that your child is wanting to run this by you, get your validation, get your feedback, get your.

Truly
00:12:49
This is also safe.

Lori
00:12:51
Right.

Truly
00:12:52
Is huge growth for you and your child's connection and will go very, very far in their life.

Truly
00:13:01
I can't even express how happy that makes me that people are saying that this is happening and that my child is also changing their minds and that I'm giving them that space.

Truly
00:13:12
But come, like, help me feel good about this, please.

Truly
00:13:15
And they're seeking support.

Lori
00:13:16
Right?

Truly
00:13:17
Like, that's also something to be celebrated, that you're seeking support for yourself outside of, you know, your child trying to be that support for you.

Truly
00:13:28
Because I see that happening sometimes, too, where they're like, are you okay?

Truly
00:13:32
Are you okay?

Truly
00:13:33
What can I do more?

Truly
00:13:34
And the child's like, hold on a second.

Truly
00:13:37
Your anxiety is giving me anxiety.

Lori
00:13:40
Exactly.

Lori
00:13:42
Oh, my goodness.

Truly
00:13:43
I'm happy.

Truly
00:13:43
You want to know how I can help?

Truly
00:13:45
You need to support me.

Truly
00:13:46
But slow down a second.

Truly
00:13:47
I'm still figuring that out for myself.

Truly
00:13:49
Just wanted to share this, be validated.

Truly
00:13:51
Now you go find somebody else to get that support.

Truly
00:13:55
And I will continue to play with all my cool things that came to me in the mail that are all lgbtq.

Lori
00:14:02
Right.

Lori
00:14:04
Exactly.

Lori
00:14:04
I will continue hanging all of my different flags in my room and being.

Truly
00:14:10
Absolutely adorable as I go on this journey.

Lori
00:14:12
Right, Exactly.

Lori
00:14:14
Oh, my gosh.

Lori
00:14:15
Yes.

Truly
00:14:16
Celebrate the journey.

Truly
00:14:18
I feel like needs to be this tagline that goes out everywhere because it is a journey.

Truly
00:14:24
Childhood all the way through young adulthood is a huge rollercoaster ride in so many areas of their life.

Lori
00:14:32
Right there.

Truly
00:14:34
You'll celebrate when they're getting interested in different kinds of sports.

Truly
00:14:38
You'll celebrate when they're getting interested in different hobbies.

Truly
00:14:40
You'll celebrate when they're changing up friendships and making stronger, better connections that they had before.

Truly
00:14:45
You'll celebrate when they get when they are expressing interest in different kinds of careers, when they get their first crush, when they're going through all these different things.

Truly
00:14:55
So why not celebrate that they are comfortable enough to explore their different gender and romantic relationship interests and that they feel safe doing that.

Lori
00:15:08
Exactly.

Lori
00:15:09
Exactly.

Lori
00:15:10
Thank you.

Lori
00:15:11
I mean, that is.

Lori
00:15:13
I think it.

Lori
00:15:14
And I love.

Lori
00:15:15
I'm just.

Lori
00:15:15
I think it's so important that we say this out loud.

Lori
00:15:17
You said it out loud.

Lori
00:15:18
That I say it out loud.

Lori
00:15:19
That, you know, we all, like, are saying this because the more that people.

Lori
00:15:24
I think people are just afraid.

Lori
00:15:26
Like, there's all this, so much fear.

Lori
00:15:28
And understandably so, especially right now.

Lori
00:15:32
Right.

Lori
00:15:32
But just to be like, oh, this is.

Lori
00:15:35
This is the way it's supposed to work, like, this is no different than any other change that's, you know, that's going on and growth that's going on in their lives at this point.

Truly
00:15:46
Yeah.

Lori
00:15:47
So just to.

Truly
00:15:49
Absolutely.

Truly
00:15:50
I mean, there.

Truly
00:15:53
It's understandable where the panic comes from, having, like, the things that we see come through on our social media or the things that we hear about in our community.

Truly
00:16:03
And I.

Truly
00:16:03
So I want to validate the panic that sometimes happens.

Lori
00:16:06
Sure.

Truly
00:16:07
Those.

Truly
00:16:08
Those things can feel very scary to.

Truly
00:16:09
Where you want to make sure that your child's not going to experience depression, make sure your child's not going to experience.

Truly
00:16:14
Experience any sort of negative stigma and that they feel like they can't explore that identity.

Truly
00:16:20
I get that.

Truly
00:16:22
But we also have to make sure that they feel okay to explore all the identities, not just the first one that they come across, and then perhaps take it back, walk it back, and then go back to it again.

Truly
00:16:34
It's kind of like when they're learning to swim.

Truly
00:16:36
If your child has ever tried to experience that, they'll dip their toe in the water, test out the temperature, maybe they'll splash around a bit, and then all of a sudden they'll be like, whoa, I just sucked up some water when I went under.

Truly
00:16:48
I'm never doing this again.

Truly
00:16:50
Hold on.

Truly
00:16:51
And they'll go back in again.

Truly
00:16:53
Like, we're giving them that chance to feel the temperature, to see what it's all about, take that step back if they need to, and then they'll feel stronger when they go and embrace what they feel is the correct identity for themselves.

Lori
00:17:10
Right, right.

Truly
00:17:14
And it is normal for it to change not so far from where they started.

Lori
00:17:20
Right.

Truly
00:17:21
You know, but it is normal for it to sway a little bit because gender and sexuality are fluid, even for the heterosexual couple, even for the person who is feeling very CIS in their gender or very, very straight.

Truly
00:17:37
There will be things that can come up through their lifetime where they want to explore it for a bit or might not have aligned with the way they were when they were younger.

Truly
00:17:49
And that is also completely normal because it is a fluid spectrum where you can be anywhere on that big wheel of gender and sexuality, right?

Lori
00:18:02
Well, and I think kind of to your point too, like, you know, when you're young, you don't necessarily, I think for especially so.

Lori
00:18:11
So many of us who are a little bit older, who.

Lori
00:18:14
There was such a binary.

Lori
00:18:16
And so it was very difficult to be able to if.

Lori
00:18:21
If it was outside of the binary binary in any way.

Lori
00:18:24
Like, well, what is this?

Lori
00:18:25
What is this feeling?

Lori
00:18:26
Well, I'm not quite sure.

Lori
00:18:27
I can't really, like, figure it out.

Lori
00:18:28
So I'm just going to put it away.

Lori
00:18:29
I'm going to shelve it, right?

Lori
00:18:31
And as languaging and un.

Lori
00:18:32
Understanding became more and more available, then it was like, oh, that's what that is, right?

Lori
00:18:38
Like now I can kind of connect into that and get a better understanding of what that is.

Lori
00:18:45
And I think it's so important, you know, it's kind of breaking through the binary, right?

Lori
00:18:50
And looking at it as more of a spectrum, which, you know, is, I think, a much better way to look at both gender and sexuality because it's not on a binary.

Lori
00:19:01
It is very much on a specific spectrum.

Lori
00:19:04
And any person, and to your point, any, you know, even if you are straight cisgender, it's still on a spectrum like that still is where you are is different than your, you know, whether it's spouse or friend or whatever, right?

Truly
00:19:22
So how you experience your straight CIS feeling is different than how your neighbor experiences it and different how your spouse, if you have one, experiences it.

Truly
00:19:35
The fact that we have had so many more researchers in psychology and biology and sociology, all those, all of those researchers joining together and sharing their knowledge were able to come up with a better language, a better way to explain how we experience our sexuality, how we experience our romantic interests, how we experience our identity formation, how we experience our gender internally and externally, and how we want society to see us.

Truly
00:20:09
There's just so many more nuances, right?

Truly
00:20:13
And the fact that they've been able to form language for that means that they're able to create better way of documenting it in their research too.

Truly
00:20:23
And so when we, when we hear, at least when I hear families or people in general just coming up, to me being like, I don't understand why this was like so different than how it was when I was younger.

Truly
00:20:35
You know, those older generations coming up to me and being like, we didn't have this when we were younger.

Truly
00:20:39
Well, we.

Truly
00:20:40
We didn't experience a lot of things the same as when you were younger.

Truly
00:20:44
Because society changes, because research grows.

Lori
00:20:48
Right.

Truly
00:20:48
Because we're able to change our language to match how we're feeling.

Truly
00:20:52
Because there's more people coming out talking about it, and we're able to validate it now.

Lori
00:20:57
Right.

Truly
00:20:58
Because we didn't have characters in our books that looked like us when we were little.

Truly
00:21:04
You know, those.

Truly
00:21:05
All those.

Truly
00:21:06
All those little nuances.

Truly
00:21:07
Yeah.

Truly
00:21:08
It's supposed to change.

Truly
00:21:09
We're supposed to grow as a society.

Lori
00:21:12
It's part of evolving.

Lori
00:21:13
Right.

Lori
00:21:14
It's part of evolving and growing, which is so vitally important for survival.

Lori
00:21:21
And I know this is something, too, that you do talk about the spectrum a lot, which I love that you really touch on this and do have such a lovely way of explaining it.

Lori
00:21:34
Are there any articles or books or any kind of media that you point people to when they're really kind of wanting to understand more about this?

Truly
00:21:46
Yeah, there is a researcher.

Truly
00:21:49
Her first name is Sari.

Truly
00:21:50
I have to remember my mind myself of her last name.

Truly
00:21:54
It's a theory that she has created as I'm trying to remember the name of it right now because I'm a little sick and my brain is a little foggy.

Lori
00:22:02
And we can come back to it, too, or if you want.

Truly
00:22:06
I think it was SRTS or something like that.

Truly
00:22:09
But she describes gender and sexuality as a funnel, and she has this unique way of explaining it and showing it to people.

Truly
00:22:20
So I tend to give her cartoon book that she has out because she has something very free to the public, and people can go through the map and see how their culture, how their kinks, how their relationship partners, how their religion, how their.

Truly
00:22:40
Their interests with how somebody looks, their interest in how someone's personality is, their lack of any of this, how they feel about their gender and how they want to express their gender in a.

Truly
00:22:53
In a romantic relationship versus in a sexuality experience.

Truly
00:22:57
And you can map yourself on this funnel.

Truly
00:23:02
It's very cool.

Truly
00:23:03
She uses it to help herself with her research and has published it as a way for researchers to better identify the participant from their perspective in the research.

Truly
00:23:16
So that you're able to better classify how people are feeling and expressing various things.

Lori
00:23:23
Right.

Truly
00:23:24
And I have it saved on my computer.

Lori
00:23:27
It's okay.

Lori
00:23:28
You can share it with me and I'll put it in the show notes yeah, it'll be in the show notes.

Lori
00:23:33
Everyone just, Just hang in there.

Lori
00:23:36
This will make you go to the show notes, so.

Lori
00:23:42
Oh my gosh.

Lori
00:23:43
That's so cool.

Lori
00:23:44
I figured you had something that was.

Lori
00:23:46
Because this is such something that people have so many questions about and I think I just really wanting to understand and have such curiosity, which is lovely.

Lori
00:23:58
So I always feel like when somebody's really curious and they're asking a lot of questions, I want to be able to direct them to, you know, even a greater body of work or another way to like really learn.

Truly
00:24:09
Another way to process the information is spend time with and sit and go back with.

Lori
00:24:14
Right?

Truly
00:24:15
Yeah.

Lori
00:24:15
Right.

Truly
00:24:17
Yeah.

Lori
00:24:18
No, go ahead.

Truly
00:24:18
I love that she created it in a cartoon format.

Truly
00:24:22
It's.

Truly
00:24:23
It makes it easy for people to digest these difficult concepts.

Lori
00:24:28
Oh my goodness.

Lori
00:24:29
Right?

Lori
00:24:29
I mean, yeah.

Lori
00:24:32
Nothing better than a good graphic novel.

Lori
00:24:34
I mean, we.

Lori
00:24:35
We all love them.

Lori
00:24:39
That's so awesome.

Lori
00:24:41
Okay, so there are a couple more things that I wanted to hear from you before, so I love.

Lori
00:24:47
So one of the things that you were talking a little bit about in, in your notes that I was reading was the idea of coming in is more important than coming out.

Lori
00:25:53
And I am so curious about what you mean by that.

Truly
00:25:59
Understanding yourself, like admitting to yourself that this is something that you're feeling and that it's okay having that self compassion with all of what's happening within you, both the turmoil of feeling, conflict against how you were raised or against what your expectations were for yourself.

Truly
00:26:23
Maybe they were put upon you, maybe you put it upon yourself, then also validating it for yourself that this was hard or not so hard, maybe it was easy, but it's hard to say it out loud.

Truly
00:26:35
Just whatever those internal processes that are happening within you as you're discovering that if it says about you and your child, that your expectations towards your child, maybe it's how your child is feeling, their expectations for you towards themselves.

Truly
00:26:51
Having that compassion and admitting to yourself that that's there and then admitting to yourself that this is happening, then being able to express it, it's really important that you're feeling it within and that you're loving yourself and that you're accepting yourself and that you're accepting that life is going to be a rollercoaster ride.

Truly
00:27:13
It's going to have its ups and downs and whatever stage of that ride you're in right now, eventually it'll come to a smooth ending and it'll work out.

Truly
00:27:22
So coming in is a huge important part of the process.

Truly
00:27:27
And if you never Feel comfortable talking about it with every family member and every friend, that's okay.

Truly
00:27:35
But if you're able to live it within yourself and be authentic to yourself, that's so important.

Lori
00:27:43
Yeah, that's the most important.

Truly
00:27:46
Absolutely.

Lori
00:27:47
Yeah.

Lori
00:27:48
Okay.

Lori
00:27:49
I love that.

Lori
00:27:49
I was wondering because I talk so much about the cast model for coming out and because I love the way that that really kind of breaks it down especially.

Lori
00:28:00
I mean, I.

Lori
00:28:01
There's for coming, you know, for the person coming out, but there's kind of like a separate, like, coming out for parents.

Lori
00:28:08
And so this works really well into that of like, kind of that whole idea of like pausing the self, you know, the self compassion of just like giving yourself that moment to like, check in and be like, oh, this is where I am.

Lori
00:28:24
And that's.

Lori
00:28:24
I love that.

Lori
00:28:25
Thank you.

Truly
00:28:27
Absolutely.

Truly
00:28:27
Yeah.

Truly
00:28:29
I did a lot of research on how self compassion builds resiliency and how self compassion is one of the key components in not just resiliency, but being happy and authentic.

Truly
00:28:42
And so that for me, was that piece that needs to be spoken more about.

Truly
00:28:49
People are.

Truly
00:28:50
Embrace the person who's coming out because they want them not to be scared to be themselves.

Truly
00:28:55
But sometimes it really is unsafe to be out.

Truly
00:28:59
Not.

Truly
00:28:59
There are valid concerns with needing to be careful with who you're around as your authentic self when you are a underrepresented member of the community that has laws against your.

Truly
00:29:15
Who you are.

Truly
00:29:16
And so this concept of coming in, really embracing that and finding yourself to be okay with who you are will help you know better where you can be yourself and be good about that, but then also be good with not being out in certain areas if you can't.

Truly
00:29:36
Because you're still okay with who you are, regardless of whether you're able to be who you are in that space.

Lori
00:29:43
That.

Lori
00:29:44
And that is so key.

Lori
00:29:45
Right.

Lori
00:29:46
So you're able to hold that for yourself or hold that for your loved one, whoever it is, and know that just because you or they are not able to like, say it to every person they walk by or express it even in, you know, the way that they're dressing or the way that they're speaking or the way that you know any of these things, that doesn't mean that they're not or you're not who you are.

Lori
00:30:11
Right.

Lori
00:30:12
So I love that because I think that's something again right now that's so very important for everyone to understand and embrace because it's not safe a lot of places.

Lori
00:30:27
In fact, I tell you the story I Yesterday I was talking to Somebody.

Lori
00:30:32
And right now, I think I'd mentioned this to you beforehand, but I'm in Florida right now with my mother in law and my kids, spring break.

Lori
00:30:42
And I was talking to a person and she is person of color, female and lesbian.

Lori
00:30:52
And we were talking about what I do.

Lori
00:30:54
And I said, and she's just down here for a time.

Lori
00:30:57
She's from New York City, Brooklyn.

Lori
00:30:59
So we were like laughing because I'm like, oh my gosh, that's where Connor is.

Lori
00:31:01
And you know, we love New York and all this.

Lori
00:31:03
So anyway, I was like, aren't you nervous to be down here?

Lori
00:31:06
Because frankly, I was a little apprehensive about coming down here with my daughter and, and just like on high alert, like total mama bear high alert, right?

Lori
00:31:19
And she said, you know, I, yes, I have been very, very nervous about it.

Lori
00:31:22
And she said, you know, the other day I was in some place and somebody was hitting on her.

Lori
00:31:27
And she said, you know, you know, sorry, not interested, I'm a lesbian.

Lori
00:31:33
And he was like, oh.

Lori
00:31:34
And like, not at all put off.

Lori
00:31:35
She's like, but he followed me outside and was like, you need to be very, very careful.

Lori
00:31:40
He was like, and I don't mean that in like, I'm being scary kind of way.

Lori
00:31:43
I mean like, in a very protective kind of way.

Lori
00:31:45
You've got to be very, very careful down here.

Lori
00:31:48
And I was like, wow.

Lori
00:31:51
And how kind.

Truly
00:31:53
Yeah, right?

Lori
00:31:54
Like that kind of bring me how.

Truly
00:31:55
Kind in a little bit of a creepy way, but how.

Lori
00:32:01
Broken bad in like 12 different ways.

Lori
00:32:03
I mean, I really was like, actually we're brave to like, there was a lot of bravery going on there, but also like, oh, I as like a mom, I kind of wanted to be like, okay, can we just like regroup?

Lori
00:32:15
And you know, but that is so.

Lori
00:32:22
It's just, I think, such a statement of where we are right now and for, you know, for whether it's us or our loved ones who are trying to figure out how do I navigate this?

Lori
00:32:34
Especially if I go from an environment that is very safe to an environment that is not quite as safe.

Truly
00:32:41
Right.

Lori
00:32:43
So, you know, I talk to Connor about this all the time.

Lori
00:32:46
Like, you live in New York City.

Lori
00:32:47
In New York City, you.

Lori
00:32:50
Nobody takes a second look at you, right?

Lori
00:32:52
Like, you are good, you've got your people, you're good.

Lori
00:32:56
Other places, you have to be careful even if you are traveling with your people, because potentially less safe.

Lori
00:33:04
So, you know, I think these are just.

Lori
00:33:06
It's important to have these very real conversations.

Truly
00:33:10
Yes, having these conversations can be Very empowering in general, and they feel very scary at first because you might not have had to ever have conversations like this with your children.

Lori
00:33:23
Right.

Truly
00:33:24
If you are of an underrepresented ethnicity group or race group, you had conversations already by this point with your children about how race and religion and ethnicity impact you with various aspects of the environment around you.

Truly
00:33:39
And now you're layering on gender or sexuality.

Truly
00:33:42
But for those who are not of that underrepresented population, as a parent, as a guardian, you're going to be looking at your child for the first time with all this panic about society.

Lori
00:33:55
Right.

Truly
00:33:56
And so the conversation is new to you and it's difficult, but it becomes very powerful conversation and opens up other conversations that can be difficult as well that no longer have to be so difficult because you started that conversation about safety and about the reality, and you're recognizing and validating the reality.

Truly
00:34:20
So they're no longer.

Truly
00:34:22
Now they're not as afraid to come to somebody, but also to know how to handle themselves in these spaces.

Truly
00:34:28
They're prepared.

Lori
00:34:30
Right, Exactly.

Lori
00:34:31
And I think that, I mean, that's the most.

Lori
00:34:34
The most important thing, right?

Lori
00:34:36
Just kind of knowing.

Lori
00:34:39
And that again, to your point, like, not so that everybody walks around in fear all the time, but it's that just being aware and knowing what to do.

Lori
00:34:51
Right?

Truly
00:34:51
Yeah.

Truly
00:34:53
How to be safe in those spaces.

Lori
00:34:55
Correct, Correct.

Lori
00:34:56
So, okay, we have just a couple more questions and a couple more minutes, and I have still, like, so many things to ask you.

Lori
00:35:04
We might have to do a part two, so I'm going to give you your choice.

Lori
00:35:09
It's choice time of questions, because I'm.

Truly
00:35:12
Show time.

Truly
00:35:12
Got it.

Lori
00:35:13
Right.

Lori
00:35:13
I know we're down to, like, the.

Lori
00:35:16
Whatever they want to call it.

Truly
00:35:17
Yeah.

Lori
00:35:17
Okay, so two topics that I just love, but I know that you're.

Lori
00:35:22
You have such awesome thoughts on how to deal with homophobic family members or homophobic people in general, or how does one know if they are polyamorous or pansexual or kind of any sexuality or gender identity that's outside of lgbt.

Truly
00:35:48
Okay, so both of those could be, like, hour long conversations in and of themselves, just so you're aware.

Lori
00:35:57
Well, yes.

Lori
00:35:58
I mean, I figured I was going to be getting, like, here's the surface answer, and then we can dig deep.

Lori
00:36:04
Well, this.

Lori
00:36:04
This will definitely give us a reason to have part two, but I'll let you, you know, let's.

Lori
00:36:10
Let's tee up some curiosity.

Lori
00:36:12
How about that?

Truly
00:36:14
Oh, okay.

Truly
00:36:16
Curiosity.

Truly
00:36:18
You know what?

Truly
00:36:19
There will be much more suspense with the polyamorous versus pansexual aspects.

Lori
00:36:23
All right.

Truly
00:36:24
That is a very hot topic right now of interest.

Truly
00:36:28
And I love that every now and then you'll find somebody in a TV show that comes out as polyamorous or pansexual or some other what people consider New Agey.

Truly
00:36:40
But it's really just language that's finally been developed.

Heather Hester
00:36:43
Correct.

Truly
00:36:44
Or things that have always been there.

Truly
00:36:49
I mean, you look to the indigenous populations, you'll find all of this has been around since the dawn of time and with language and embraced as being closer to the gods, if you will.

Truly
00:37:02
And yeah, we're looking at it as it's all New Agey.

Truly
00:37:07
It is not.

Truly
00:37:08
Woo woo.

Truly
00:37:09
It is.

Truly
00:37:10
Oh, gosh, I had somebody respond.

Lori
00:37:12
It's not trendy.

Truly
00:37:13
Not trendy.

Truly
00:37:14
But I also, like I posted.

Truly
00:37:16
So I'm doing this parent empowerment circle as well as, like these confidence circles and these identity circles.

Truly
00:37:22
And it's just education and group coaching and empowerments with your peers that are going through the same thing as you.

Truly
00:37:28
And so I'm advertising it.

Truly
00:37:30
Yes.

Truly
00:37:30
Come to, come to my website.

Lori
00:37:32
Yeah.

Truly
00:37:33
Join the people there.

Truly
00:37:35
No worries within.

Truly
00:37:37
But I was posting an advertisement about it and I had comments like, this is pseudoscience.

Truly
00:37:42
And I'm just like, I.

Truly
00:37:45
They're like, you're.

Truly
00:37:46
I hate that there's so many people out there that are just pushing their agenda and it's all negative and that I'm making these things up and I'm just looking at that and I'm like, so I just spent how much money on my masters and gender and sexuality and all this evidence, supported research so that I can make things up.

Lori
00:38:05
Right.

Lori
00:38:06
So no, Yeah, I mean, there it is.

Lori
00:38:09
Historical fact.

Truly
00:38:11
No, it is well documented.

Truly
00:38:14
Very well documented.

Lori
00:38:16
Yes.

Truly
00:38:17
Oh, my goodness.

Truly
00:38:19
But polyamory is not a gender.

Truly
00:38:24
It's not a sexuality.

Truly
00:38:26
It is a relationship style, a relationship format, and it's a way of people expressing their love.

Truly
00:38:35
And it does not mean only of sex in general.

Truly
00:38:39
It's not just for erotic play.

Truly
00:38:41
It's not.

Truly
00:38:42
Some people that are polyamorous do not express any eroticism in it at all.

Truly
00:38:47
It is not a way of being various gender expressions.

Truly
00:38:53
Although there are people who are polyamorous who are on the gender spectrum and do like that as part of a way of them being able to be themselves better.

Truly
00:39:02
That is not what it's for.

Truly
00:39:04
Polyamory is definitely not for the monogamous person to explore and cheat either.

Truly
00:39:10
And polyamory is definitely expressed differently amongst each polyamorous person.

Truly
00:39:19
It is a word that is used to describe being able to love openly and fluidly more than one person.

Truly
00:39:29
So if you're monogamous, you're in a relationship and you can have various types of sexual experiences in your monogamous relationship.

Truly
00:39:37
You could have friends that you're very close with that makes you maybe feel like you have more than one partner that you're intimate with, but you're holding space with you and your partner as this tight knit group that makes these promises with each other.

Truly
00:39:52
You're going to be together in it as the only romantic love interest.

Lori
00:39:58
Okay.

Truly
00:39:59
With polyamory, you have more than one partner that you are romantically or intimately relating with.

Truly
00:40:09
And you could have various strengths within that too.

Truly
00:40:13
So you might have one person that you see occasionally, but you have a very intimate relationship with that's very deep.

Truly
00:40:21
You might have a relationship that you see all the time.

Truly
00:40:24
You might have one person that you live with, you might not live with any of your partners and they come and stay with you occasionally.

Truly
00:40:32
So there's different ways that you are expressing your love with more than one partner.

Truly
00:40:41
There are also polyamorous people that don't have more than one partner.

Truly
00:40:45
They have one partner that they're very tight with and they may be in and out of other relationships over periods of time and might be going for long periods of time without another partner because they haven't found someone that they really felt that close with, but they know they're capable of it.

Lori
00:41:04
Right.

Truly
00:41:06
So we have to be very careful with assuming that people are monogamous, whether just with one partner.

Truly
00:41:13
However, they're very.

Truly
00:41:15
Just kind of like how we can't assume that somebody who is in a relationship with either the same gender as the one they identify with or a different gender than the one they identify with is bisexual or not.

Truly
00:41:31
It's the same concept.

Lori
00:41:33
Right.

Lori
00:41:33
Okay, I was just going to say that.

Lori
00:41:35
I was just going to ask because I think that is such a.

Lori
00:41:39
Another one that is more common right now where people just kind of make that assumption.

Lori
00:41:44
And if someone is, you know, if they do happen to be in relationship with someone who is of the opposite gender, that then there's this.

Lori
00:41:57
Well, how can you possibly be right?

Lori
00:41:59
Well, it's all about understanding.

Lori
00:42:02
So I think this is part of the education, right.

Lori
00:42:05
Part of having this conversation is just to give a better understanding and kind of that space to be like, oh, to really ponder it and to process that and to just kind of add it to.

Lori
00:42:20
You're like, oh, this is, this is possible.

Lori
00:42:23
Right, Right.

Truly
00:42:24
So Somebody can be pansexual and in a polyamorous relationship or a monogamous relationship or an open relationship, or there is the very.

Truly
00:42:38
There's a wide umbrella of ways that we can be expressing our partnerships as well as our sexuality, as well as our gender, as well as our eroticism, our romanticism, our intimacy levels.

Truly
00:42:56
We are human, and in our human experience, it's vast and varied and does not need to be defined by anyone but ourselves.

Truly
00:43:06
So you can use these labels.

Truly
00:43:08
You cannot use these labels.

Truly
00:43:09
I find the labels are helpful when explaining to people how I.

Truly
00:43:13
When I need to, but I also don't like being put in a box.

Truly
00:43:18
So I can totally understand why people might want to push away the labels for being able to explain what people are going through right now.

Truly
00:43:33
You can use the label polyamorous if you're feeling as though you're able to hold space and love intimately more than one person.

Truly
00:43:44
And that could be, at the same time, over time, how you want to live with one and maybe love another from a distance.

Truly
00:43:56
There's different ways you can express that, and it's very difficult to work through a polyamorous relationship.

Truly
00:44:03
So if the.

Truly
00:44:04
For people who are concerned that that's a way for somebody to be able to cheat, it is not the easy way, for sure.

Truly
00:44:16
First of all, and if somebody is wanting to cheat, they're not really holding true love and romantic interests in both those people because they're being dishonest with one of them.

Truly
00:44:29
That's not a healthy way to hold a relationship.

Truly
00:44:33
So they're not.

Truly
00:44:34
They're not actually being polyamorous when they're cheating.

Lori
00:44:39
Right, Right.

Truly
00:44:42
And there's more coming soon on a podcast near you.

Lori
00:44:48
And with that, we are going to leave you all sitting on the edge of your seats.

Lori
00:44:56
We'll be back with more in a couple of months.

Lori
00:44:58
You're going to have to wait.

Truly
00:45:01
I'll even share with you my experiences going through all of this.

Truly
00:45:06
So come back again.

Lori
00:45:08
Okay.

Lori
00:45:08
Well, we're definitely.

Lori
00:45:09
We will definitely do this again.

Lori
00:45:11
You all are just going to have to wait for more detail.

Lori
00:45:14
This was like the surface.

Lori
00:45:17
We, you know, we skimmed to the surface.

Truly
00:45:19
We dipped our toe in.

Lori
00:45:21
We did.

Lori
00:45:22
We did.

Lori
00:45:23
Next time we're going to swim.

Lori
00:45:25
Next time we're going to get water up our noses.

Truly
00:45:27
Absolutely.

Lori
00:45:32
Oh, my gosh.

Lori
00:45:33
Well, thank you.

Lori
00:45:34
Thank you.

Lori
00:45:34
This was so fun, and I'm just.

Lori
00:45:37
I learned so much today, and I love that.

Lori
00:45:40
So thank you.

Truly
00:45:40
Oh, yay.

Truly
00:45:42
It was fun talking with you.

Lori
00:45:44
Yes.

Lori
00:45:44
And we will.

Lori
00:45:45
Everything will be in the show notes and social media and all over the place.

Lori
00:45:51
And so everyone you know, you all can learn how to find Lori, how to work with Lori, how to follow Lori, how to learn more.

Lori
00:46:01
So we are all good.

Truly
00:46:03
Great seeing you all.

Heather Hester
00:46:06
Thanks so much for joining me today.

Heather Hester
00:46:09
If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.

Heather Hester
00:46:14
For a rating or a review.

Heather Hester
00:46:16
Click on the link in the show notes or go to my website chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Heather Hester
00:46:29
Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone and remember to just breathe until next time.