#70 - Accelerating Recovery and Performance: Insights into Elite Athlete Care, Part 1

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Hi, guys, Welcome to the
final episode of Factor podcast of twenty twenty
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three. It's hard to believe that
we're only two days away from the new
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year. I feel like we've all
collectively been in a perpetual state of hangover
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since twenty twenty Am I the only
one anyway? In honor of our final
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episode of the year, we decided
to shake things up a bit and take
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a short departure from our typical training
format. I recently had the privilege of
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sitting down to chat with doctor Todd
Reddle and Roger Fleming, who both returned
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from traveling with the USA Gymnastics team
to Europe for the twenty twenty three World
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Championships. Many of you are familiar
with Todd. He's our director of Education
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for Factor, a certified chiropractic sports
practitioner, registered kinesiotherapist, and si fied
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strength and conditioning coach. He also
happens to be my husband. But did
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you know that he had a career
in sports performance working with professional and Olympic
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athletes way before he went to chiropractic
school. We'll talk more about that in
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this interview. My other guest for
this episode is Roger Fleming. Roger is
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a certified athletic trainer and licensed massage
therapist who has worked with professional basketball baseball,
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celebrities in the entertainment industry and national
teams such as a USA Track and
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Field, USA Racquetball, and now
USA Gymnastics. Outside of his travel with
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these teams, Roger owns and operates
a private practice in Macon, Georgia where
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he treats athletes and active individuals of
all ages. Topics featured in today's episode
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include the crucial role of trust and
collaboration between sports medicine staff, coaches,
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and athletes in decision making concerning health
and performance. We also talk about the
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symbiotic relationship that should always exists between
athletic training and strength and conditioning staff,
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and some of the team dynamics related
to the overlapping scope of practice and the
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importance of athletes at all levels having
access to acute care on the field of
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play. If you've ever aspired to
become a sports medicine provider, then this
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is definitely a series you'll want a
bookmark and come back to more than once.
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Let's cue the intro music and get
started. All righty guys, welcome
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today. We are so excited to
have two special guests on The Factor podcast
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today, as many of you know
that have listened to us for quite a
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while. Typically a lot of our
episodes are clinical or business focused trainings,
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and today we're breaking from our traditional
format and we actually have an interview,
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and it's an interview with two different
healthcare practitioners. So I'm very excited today
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to have on our podcast Roger Fleming
as well as doctor Todd Riddle, and
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we're going to be talking today through
how they both have evolved throughout their journeys
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as healthcare providers to now treating some
of the elite level athletes on USA Gymnastics
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Team, USA Racketball and others.
And we're going to find out a little
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bit more about what that journey looks
like, a little bit taking a peek
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behind the curtain, if you will. So that being said, welcome guys,
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thank you so much for being here. I'll give each of you a
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chance to kind of just tell our
listeners who you are, where you currently
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practice, and just a little bit
about yourself. Roger, would you mind
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going first for us? Certainly,
first of all, thank you for having
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me on here. It's an honor
to be here. So my name is
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Roger Fleming. I'm a certified athletic
trainer and licensed massage therapist. I practice
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out of Making, Georgia, and
I am a private owner. I own
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my own practice. Wonderful. Thank
you Roger and doctor Todd. For those
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of our listeners that may not be
familiar with you, if you don't mind
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telling us a little bit about yourself, of course, thanks for having me
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on. It's good to be back. My name is Todd Riddle. I'm
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a certified sports chiropractor. I'm based
out of Seabrook, Texas, which is
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a small suburb of southeast Houston.
We're down near the Gulf of Mexico.
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Great little place to live and be
a sports chiropractor. I'm also a certified
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strengthy Conditioning specialist, registered canesio therapist, which we can get into a little
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bit later on. And yeah,
i have a private practice in Seabrook,
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Texas where we see a lot of
athletes, work with a lot of different
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sports, but probably really consider us
more of a family practice because we see
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folks that just trying to stay active
and trying to feel better. But a
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little bit everything. Wonderful. Thank
you, so Roger, you were saying
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that you are both a certified athletic
trainer and a licensed massage therapist. So
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tell me a little bit about that. Did you kind of know from early
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on that you wanted to go into
healthcare and that was always kind of your
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goal or did having both of those
professions evolve over time for you. So
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when I was in high school,
I really wanted to be I was loving
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the sports, and my football coach
was like, Roger, there's this new
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and up and coming profession athletic training. I think you would be amazing at.
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I don't really think you have a
college football career ahead of you.
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So I started digging deeper into that
and he was right, and I fell
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in love with that. And I
was an athletic trainer first. So that's
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in the early mid nineties, early
nineties, and then only until later in
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my career did my philosophical approach transition
into more of the massage therapy aspect,
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the hands on aspects. So it
was athletic training first and then massage therapy.
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Now, you mentioned that when your
coach kind of approached you about this
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idea of becoming an athletic trainer,
that that wasn't something at the time that
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was very well known or something that
maybe in your area there were a lot
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of ATC's. So when you first
heard about this thing called an athletic trainer,
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what did you think that was?
Did you have kind of a it
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pique an interest in a question of
what is this trainer? Is this a
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personal trainer? Like did you have
some misconceptions in the beginning about figuring out
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what that was. My coach was
very I mean, he was very clear
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he understood what an athletic trainer was
at that time. And when I looking
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back, I equate it to an
ankle taper and putting ice on it.
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That's really what equated to being an
athletic trainer was. And the healthcare aspect,
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you don't really see that behind the
scenes until you're fully engulfed in it
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and then you understand, like,
well, there's more to it than just
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putting an ice bag on someone or
taping an ankle. And that's where I
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evolved with that. Yeah. Absolutely, And we've worked with athletic trainers for
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several years, like education side,
and they really are an incredible representation of
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what can be done with acute care
helping athletes not only at the time of
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injury, but then also there's so
much that they do from a rehab standpoint
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as well that I think a lot
of people in the general public, at
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least, like you said, they
don't always see that aspect of care.
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They see them running out when an
athlete is injured on the field, they
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see the taping, they see the
acute type of care such as icing and
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things like that, but there's so
much more behind the scenes there as well.
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What was attractive about that for you
when you really started digging into what
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an ATC was probably initially was just
being able to continue to be around athletics.
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And if I could not be an
athlete in that sense, then I
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could help someone else achieve their goals. And that's really what has kind of
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been what I've learned about myself is
my I feel like my calling, if
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you will, is to help help
others and to help people. And now
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we can get into this a little
bit later on, but my position is
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whenever someone walks through my doors,
they're an athlete, whether they're thirteen years
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old or eighty seven years old.
Absolutely, and I think that's so true.
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Nike has a famous saying everybody is
an athlete, and I think many
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healthcare providers, especially those that do
treat sports and athletics or do things from
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an active lifestyle standpoint, would agree
with that that they have patients that are
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well into their last I don't want
to say last, but they're higher phases
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of life. They're kind of in
their golden years so to speak, that
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are still very active and they still
want to continue to be active. And
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at the same time, as you
mentioned, you have kids, and you
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have youth athletes that also are just
starting that journey. But there's a lot
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of things that as healthcare providers you
can do to help support them in that.
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So you decided you wanted to be
an athletic trainer. How did you
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end up in college in the frozen
tundra of Toledo, Ohio. Coming from
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Alabama that had to have been a
shock to the system. And what was
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it about Toledo that was so attractive
for you when it came to making that
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decision of where to go to school. Well, first, I had I
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had family in Toledo, So I
wasn't going to an area that was just
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unknown, It wasn't uncharted territory.
I didn't know about the University of Toledo
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to the extent, but I knew
that it existed, and I knew my
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father lives outside of Toledo. But
I knew that if I stayed in Alabama,
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I was not going to achieve my
goals. I wasn't going to grow.
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I was going to be a small
town guy. And I took the
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leap of faith and just said,
I'm doing this to try to better myself.
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And I went in there with totally
I guess, unclothed if you will,
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and just said let it be.
And that's really how I went from
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Alabama to Toledo, Ohio. But
it was by far the greatest decision I've
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ever made as far as my professional
career goes. That's phenomenal. There's so
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many times where I feel like we
speak to people who have had great achievements,
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or they've accomplished something, or they've
really grown in some way professionally,
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and there was always a place in
their history, a place in their journey
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where they had to make that leap, they had to make a decision and
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say, Okay, I'm doing this, And sometimes for some peoples a scary
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prospect because maybe it's a complete shift
in professions, or it's a shift into
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stepping outside of the known into the
unknown. But oftentimes when that happens,
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there's a lot of great reward that
comes from that, for sure. So
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you enrolled in school at Toledo and
at one point you were a student athletic
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trainer for the football department, which
is how you met doctor Todd here.
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So, guys, tell me a
little bit about how you both came together
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and met so many years ago at
Toledo. Go ahead, Todd, Oh,
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this is an easy one for me. As an athlete, you get
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very particular about who you let work
with you. Roger was kind of an
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instant attraction for me because he carried
himself well. He was also i think
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two years ahead of me, Roger, Yes, yes, yeah, So
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Roger was already kind of established in
the athletic training department as a student at
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and it was instant because again,
he carried himself a little bit better.
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And and sometimes you end up with
somebody out of necessity when everybody's trying to
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get their treatment in or trying to
get taped up before a game or before
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practice, you just kind of end
up with somebody. But after a couple
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of times with the Roger, I
realized really fast that he was the guy
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that I wanted working with me.
He is also and Roger and I love
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to share this story. He's also
the reason I can't grow any hair on
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my ankles is he taped high enough
over the pre wrap that we pulled all
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the hair out of my legs trying
to take the tape off. So but
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now, Roger instantly was one of
my favorite people in the athletic training room,
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and I'm grateful for the fact that
I got that kind of care at
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Toledo. That's awesome now, I
know for you, obviously being from Ohio,
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there was not quite as much of
a move or a shift when you
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went to college at Toledo. But
you primarily went there due to a football
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scholarship. Is that correct? So
sports, I know has been a huge
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piece of your life for since you
were a child. Onward, tell our
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listeners a little bit about how you
came to be at Toledo and give us
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a little bit of the backstory about
your time in athletics growing up as a
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child. My parents were really great
about letting my brother and I, who
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was two years behind me, and
also ended up at Toledo. They let
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us play just about anything we could
we could get to. So growing up
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I played about one season of soccer
and realized very quickly that I was not
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going to be a rinaldo or a
messy just soccer was not my thing.
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So played some football, played some
baseball, golf, tennis, you name
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it, we were probably trying to
do it. It just so happened that
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working through sports, football and baseball
kind of became the sports that I gravitated
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to and had an affinity for in
high school. I ended up with an
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injury my junior of high school that
more or less paralyzed my left arm for
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lack of better terms, for the
better part of about a year. That
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made ME have to make a decision
going into my senior year what sports I
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wanted to play because I lost some
time during the football season but also all
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through baseball that I was going to
have to try to make up and try
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to post some numbers if I was
going to go to college on a scholarship.
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So I chose football. But I
do want to go backwards a minute,
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because you guys were talking a little
bit about athletic trainers being more than
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just acute care and ankle tapers.
My rehabilitation process for my shoulder injury was
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done entirely by the athletic trainer who
was on staff both for the regional hospital
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system but also for the school I
went to wallsh Jesuit. So that's a
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big props to the athletic training profession
because she took me from not being able
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to move my arm. I'll never
forget a named terry. She took me
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through not being able to move my
arm back to functionality and then eventually into
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college sports. But yeah, so
I had to make a decision at that
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point which sport I wanted to focus
on. So I focused on football,
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made again amble and it paid off. I had several opportunities at several different
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places, all of them were in
the frozen tundra of the North, So
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it just happened that Toledo was the
best option, and I'm thankful for that
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because now I have an enduring and
long standing friendship with Raj. Today's training
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to help you bring your event or course
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offering to life. For more information, visit the link in our show notes
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to schedule a call with a member
of our team. We can't wait to
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speak with you. That's amazing and
it's so funny for people listening that we
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have listeners all over the world.
But we jokingly refer to it as the
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frozen tundra of the North because I'm
from South Carolina, so I don't do
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cold weather if I can help it. I've only been to Ohio in the
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true winter once, and I've never
been so cold in my entire life.
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So those of you that have played
sports in the outdoors in those winter months,
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I have a great amount of respect
for people that can do that.
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I would just be a popsicle and
unable and unwilling to move, I feel
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like. So it's interesting, though, what you guys were both saying about
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athletic training and the impact that it
can have on young athletes. How important
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do you think it is for high
school programs and even Little League teams and
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things like that to have access to
care, whether it's an athletic trainer,
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whether it's someone else that does rehab
services such as a sports chiropractor, a
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physical therapist, a massage therapist that
does a lot of work with athletes and
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help from a soft tissue standpoint.
How important do you feel that is when
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youth athletes are coming up? And
what do you wish parents knew a little
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bit more about the role that these
healthcare providers can play. For me,
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it's extremely important that the youth have
access to healthcare providers. There's infinite numbers
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that show that so many of these
kids are just being pushed to the wayside,
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but yet their volume of workload is
increasing the younger they are, and
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the physical maturity is getting to be
a little too much for these athletes,
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I think, and I may not
be saying that just perfectly, or I
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may be getting kind of sidetracked because
the athletes are being asked at an earlier
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age to do much more, but
they don't get an opportunity to be kids.
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And if they're not going to be
having opportunities to be kids and just
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play, then we need to put
the value of the healthcare providers so that
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we can help them bridge that gap. I think dc PT a t where
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I think in some ways, where
in my opinion is we're we may be
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on the brink of maybe failing the
kids a little bit by not providing them
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without health care, but we'll spend
thousands of dollars on travel activities and to
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get their kids in front and being
noticed. But on the back end,
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they don't have the care to keep
up to keep their bodies going with the
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workload. And I may have gone
down a rabbit hole that maybe we weren't
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prepared to go down. Sorry about
that. I think that's a great point.
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I do think it's important to parse
out the different responsibilities that these healthcare
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providers would have. I can't tell
you the value of having an athletic trainer,
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a sports chiropractor, a trained sports
physical THERAPI, someone that understands acute
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care pitch side, court side,
whatever the field of play is. So
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many times we've seen athletes go down
on the field and had someone there to
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respond to it. But there are
millions of athletes out there that don't receive
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that same field of play care when
they go down with an acute injury.
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Sometimes those acute injuries, they can
kind of hobble off the field. Sometimes
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they have to be metavacked off the
field. So there's a wide variety of
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injuries that these athletes experience, and
many athletes do get that acute critical care,
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but many athletes do not. And
I think that's where Roger makes a
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good point. We're failing athletes is
they don't get that on court field of
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play care. And then beyond that, I think it's important that they have
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access to qualified sports care. One, because you want a healthcare practitioner that
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understands the trials and the tribulations of
an athlete that they don't necessarily have to
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have played the sport but they understand
what an athlete goes through. I oftentimes
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tell the students that I teach at
Texas Chiropractic College that I feel like some
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of the best practitioners are the ones
that have played sports and been injured,
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because then you have a level of
empathy for that athlete that maybe someone that
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didn't play a sport necessarily has.
And again that's not to put down people
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that didn't play sports, but I
think it does give or lend a sense
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of perspective to the injured athlete and
improve our ability to provide a different level
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of care. But yeah, I
think it's dramatically important that these athletes have
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access to a good qualified sports practitioner. And again, because we're talking about
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athletic training, specifically athletic training on
the field of play, having watched them
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work firsthand, I know exactly what
a value it is to have them out
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there in your clinical practice. What
have you guys seen in terms of having
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athletes come in and this may be
an adult that has injuries that never healed
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properly when they were young and they
didn't have access to the care or even
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your youth athletes that come in that
as you mentioned, Roger. Sometimes they're
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playing multiple sports at a time,
or they're playing year round sports, traveling
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with several teams. What are you
seeing in clinical practice in terms of the
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short term and the long term impact
of athletes just not having access to care
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when they have that acute injury.
It's a it's a physical and emotional,
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a mental health response that they feel
like they're letting themselves down, they're letting
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their teammates down. They and they
don't they don't have the emotional maturity to
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balance those and they struggle with healing
and and then on the flip side of
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that, there's the ones that are
the ones that will look at you and
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go, is it broke? No, then I'm playing And it's all about
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educating them. That's what I'm seeing
is that education is coming in to play
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much more than just doing a rehab
and doing a particular tape job. You're
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trying to educate them and so that
they can, in my perspective, of
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making them more aware of what's going
on with their body because they don't know.
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I think those are some good points. Roger. I like to talk
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about the bios psychosocial component of injuries. Clearly, there's the biological part,
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and a lot of times that's the
reason they're seeking out care in the first
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place. There's something hurting, perhaps
there's a soft tissue injury, maybe a
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joint injury, a bonent is something
along those lines that they're seeking out care
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for, and they need to be
educated about what that is. But then
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there's the two components that Roger was
touching on, the psychological part that is
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oftentimes overlooked. There's a mental health
component to their injury. Are they wondering
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if they're ever going to be able
to play again, when are they going
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to be able to play again?
Is this going to affect their spot on
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the team? How is this going
to affect my performance? So there's a
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lot of psychology that goes into this, and we'll get into this a little
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bit later, but it's really nice
to see now working with USA Gymnastics,
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they have absolutely prioritized the psychological health
of their athletes by providing mental health practitioners
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at events and training camps. But
then there's the social side. We talked
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a bit moment ago about access to
care. Sometimes athletes aren't getting the access
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to care that they require, and
even if they do have access to care.
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Sometimes they may not be able to
afford it. So in my practice,
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we're seeing a little bit of all
of that, and then it's all
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confounded by the confusion created by parents
who like to go to Google to look
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up injuries, and then coaches who
are giving their own feedback about what they
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think athletes need. I can't tell
you the number of times I've had an
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athlete committments and my coach says I
need an MRI. Okay, And I
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appreciate the fact that your coach is
weighing in on that because that reinforces that
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you do need to have this looked
at. But let's work through what's going
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on with you before we make any
determinations about extra testing or labs or extra
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imaging. So the athletes really are
in a very different place right now.
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Things have changed dramatically from when I
was playing, when Roger was playing.
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There's a lot more technology, there's
a lot more athleticism, there's a lot
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more competitive there's a lot more access
to sports, but there isn't necessarily the
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proper access to the information that these
athletes need to thrive in such an environment.
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You've made a good point there,
I think, and I've heard this
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from several healthcare providers that it's not
just about treating the athlete. It's not
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just about that one on one relationship
between being the provider and the patient.
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You have an entire team of other
people that also weigh in on it give
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their opinions. As you mentioned,
they go to doctor Google and type in
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searches and get scared when they go
on and see all the different possibilities of
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what it could be. How do
you, as a healthcare provider communicate first
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with the parents, the coaches,
the non healthcare providers that are associated with
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this athlete. But then the second
component of that, and the second piece
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that I'd love to hear more about, is how do you communicate with the
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other health healthcare providers in that team. And this is primarily focused on in
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your clinical practice, because I do
want to talk later about how you do
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that with USA Gymnastics and other sports
teams that you guys work with, But
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i'd love to hear in clinical practice
what does that look like both incorporating and
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communicating effectively with the parents, the
coaches. Maybe they even have a specific
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skills training or a trainer that they're
going to for baseball skills or football skills
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or whatnot. And then secondly,
how do you then communicate with the other
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healthcare providers who may be also treating
that athlete. In my practice, I
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first and foremost establish with the athlete, and I don't care if the athlete
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is eight years old or eighty years
old. I established with the athlete that
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I am their advocate so that they
feel like they have a partner or a
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teammate if you will, within their
healthcare. So I think that's one of
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the most important parts. But because
I see a lot of adolescent athletes,
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I really want to establish to them
that they're in a place where they can
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say anything they like, that anything
that they want to say about their sport
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or their injury is not going to
be held against them. And I make
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it clear to the parent or the
guardian that's with them that this is the
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space where they have to be able
to tell whatever their truth is. And
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sometimes athletes are hurt because they got
hurt. They're competing, they're playing hard
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things you would expect an athlete to
do. Sometimes we have athletes that come
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in that are a little bit afraid
of their sport or don't want to play
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their sport anymore. So now they're
becoming i'll say, quote unquote injured more
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because they're really just not into it. Their heart isn't into it anymore.
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So first and foremost, I try
to establish myself as an advocate for them
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so that they feel comfortable enough to
share information with me. Usually there's a
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parent in the room for that.
Legally they have to be if it's a
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minor, but if it's an adult
athlete, again, still establish myself as
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is one of their healthcare partners.
But then it becomes more about education.
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Okay, the second part of that
is education letting either the minor or the
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adult athlete know really what's going on. They love coming in while I got
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on Google, and I'll usually interrupt
him and saying that's about the worst place
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you can go for advice because there's
so many things you can interpret from what
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you see on Google. But again
that also is a place where I can
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establish myself as an information resource for
them. But to your point, the
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second question, how do I communicate
with other providers? Well, one,
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I have to make sure that the
athlete wants me to communicate with other providers,
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have to have their permission to do
so, and I know a lot
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of team coaches or even team sports
med staff want to be in on the
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conversation. But if that athlete doesn't
want that information included, then I'm not
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legally allowed to provide it. So
I have to have their permission first,
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and once I have that permission,
then it's phone calls, it's emails,
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it's text messages. I've got a
couple of orthos that I work with here
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that we communicate openly back and forth
with because the athlete wants us all speaking
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together to one expedite their care because
usually athletes want to get back on on
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the field to play as quickly as
possible, and open communication between providers helps
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to do that in a variety of
different ways. So that's kind of what
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I see in my office. I'm
sure Roger has his own take on that,
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So Todd, I'm in a lot
of an agreement with you on this
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is advocacy, advocating for the athlete. And one of the things I like
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to say is I treat the person
in front of me, so whether they're
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injured or because they're athlete, they're
playing hard, or they're injured because their
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heart's not into it and a lot
of times I'll see parents more parents or
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coaches will be more because the potential
of that person in that sport and they're
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trying to maybe live by curiously through
them, or they just think that the
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kid isn't tough, the athlete isn't
or something. And I'll tell you one
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of the things that I see and
I don't always feel the most comfortable with,
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but at the same time, because
I value in treating the person,
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I see a lot of the ones
that have gone through the different channels and
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they're like, so and so just
didn't do and it or that didn't help
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me. I tried this that didn't
work. That didn't work, this or
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that didn't work, and they're they're
coming to me and I'm like having to
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skim through, Well, what is
it didn't work? Was it a personality
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conflict? Was it actually a modality
conflict? The modality just wasn't the right
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modality or that particular athlete, or
what was the athlete looking for? What
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was a parent looking for? And
I tell them all the time that we
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need collaborative care, that I want
to be part of the solution, to
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work with everyone else so that everyone
can be on the same page. And
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I get that a lot where the
athletes will come in and their athletic trainer
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doesn't know or maybe just didn't do
something for them or whatever the HCP healthcare
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provider is, they just didn't do
something for them, and they're looking to
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me for some answers and trying to
just get the open lines of communication for
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me. Absolutely, And I think
it's interesting. And I can't imagine that
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there's many providers in private practice that
haven't encountered patients that sometimes hop from healthcare
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provider to healthcare provider trying to seek
out something. Do you find that more
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common with your athletes and their parents
than you do with your general population that
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is coming in for just for care. They're not necessarily playing a sport or
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trying to improve their performance of some
kind. Oh for sure. And I
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think Roger would agree with us too, because both of our practices are cash
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based, that our proof of concept
needs to be expedited, it needs to
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be faster. We don't have the
luxury of taking weeks to get results.
404
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We have days to get some kind
of result because these people are spending their
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own hard earned money on us and
not relying on a third party payer to
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offset that cost. So yeah,
for sure on my side again, because
407
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:44.319
of that unique situation, folks do
tend to come and go unless I can
408
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:50.039
provide some sort of quick benefit to
them, which really presents a challenge for
409
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:53.079
me, like staying up to date
on the newest research on treatment protocols or
410
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:59.559
treatment guidelines, staying up to date
on the newest treatment techniques. Roger mentioned
411
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:04.000
modeala. Yeah, sometimes athletes don't
respond well to modality, so I have
412
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.960
to figure out very quickly what they
respond well to and what they don't respond
413
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.319
well to. Dry needling is a
perfect example. I got folks that come
414
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:14.319
in asking for it, and I
got folks that absolutely hate it, So
415
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:19.279
I have to get that established very
quickly so that I don't drive them off
416
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.559
for information that I didn't have.
But yeah, I hate to say it
417
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:28.279
like that, but yeah, certainly
folks are shopping around for their best opportunity.
418
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:32.160
A lot of times that's monetary.
They're looking for the low price leader
419
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:37.400
in sports medicine care, and I
don't agree with that aspect because when you're
420
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.400
searching for the lowest price, you
usually get the lowest value. So that,
421
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.920
yes, I certainly see that a
lot Roger. Are you seeing that
422
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:52.079
as well with your youth athletes?
Are you seeing that also with your again
423
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.400
your general population, maybe they're active
adults that are just looking to come in
424
00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:00.079
and have something specific that they have
you help them with. How are you
425
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:05.000
seeing that reflected in your practice?
So I see it more. I feel
426
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:09.559
like more in the athletic population of
what I would define is like the ones
427
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:15.039
that are actively on a team or
in an individual sports program. The general
428
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:21.239
public, they are more especially with
it, like Todd said, the cash
429
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:28.360
base practice, they are the ones
that are wanting to avoid surgery or I've
430
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:37.000
gone to this professional and they're six
weeks in or three weeks in and they're
431
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.480
I'm not They're still doing X,
Y and Z and I'm not seeing any
432
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:47.440
any improvement, and they're wanting the
results. Where we are definitely a results
433
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:54.679
driven practice, but the athletes,
they will certainly jump around absolutely. And
434
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:00.320
I think one thing too that's important
to discuss and kind of hit upon here,
435
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:07.320
because I think it's all too often
overlooked or sometimes not necessarily something that
436
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:12.440
a lot of students or new graduates
take into consideration when they're looking to become
437
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.119
a sports provider is the aspect of
care that you all can provide that helps
438
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:22.840
with recovery, injury prevention, and
performance. I know that both of you
439
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.159
have a focus on that and your
practices. Todd, I know that you
440
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.480
had a career in sports performance prior
to becoming a chiropractor. Tell me a
441
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:37.280
little bit about how that is a
focus for what you do with your athletes
442
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:42.559
and how that sports performance background has
really served you well, both from building
443
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.800
your own practice and working with athletes
in your local community, but then on
444
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:51.280
at the higher levels with some of
the pro athletes, some of the elite
445
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.920
level athletes that you've worked with over
the years. I recognized early on the
446
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:01.039
importance of having a background in strength
and conditioning that first started straight out of
447
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:06.760
college. Well, obviously I was
very deeply entrenched in it in college as
448
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.199
a college athlete, having to go
through strength and conditioning at a very high
449
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:15.239
level. But I recognized the value
in it after college as part of whatever
450
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.960
career from a healthcare standpoint I was
going to be in because if you look
451
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:22.039
at the concepts of strength and conditioning, it's about improving performance. It's about
452
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:29.280
improving resiliency, compliance, capability.
We're trying to do those same things in
453
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.039
rehabilitation, maybe just at a different
workload, at a different pace, at
454
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:37.360
a different tempo. So early on
I recognized that the principles of strength and
455
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.519
conditioning are deeply entrenched into rehabilitation.
So for me, that was a foregone
456
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:46.320
conclusion. I did find out,
however, going through the whole sports performance
457
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:52.239
thing. So I owned a franchise
in Charlotte, North Carolina called Athletic Republic,
458
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.760
which deeply indebted to because it was
some of the most formative time that
459
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.760
I have as a professional just learning
and working with athletes. I got to
460
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:05.159
try treat, not treat, but
train rather thousands of different levels of athletes
461
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.840
from Olympic which we'll get into it
here a minute, to all the way
462
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:13.360
down to the six year old figure
skater. So yeah, I figured it
463
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.800
out pretty quickly that strength and conditioning
was going to be a huge component of
464
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:22.559
that because to me, that's the
end game of rehabilitative care. So when
465
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.119
you get an athlete that comes in
with an acute injury, you work through
466
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:29.880
the acuteness of that injury, you
see them through that point where you have
467
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.840
to get them now into moving better, and then once they're moving better.
468
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.559
You have to get them stronger.
But then what happens after you're ready to
469
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.519
release them from care? So let's
say that they come in for a shoulder
470
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:44.480
injury and you've seen that injury all
the way through. They feel better,
471
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:47.039
they're back to one hundred percent.
Is that the place you stop? I
472
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:51.880
don't believe it is. I believe
that now this just opened a window for
473
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:57.079
improved performance. So my background in
strength and conditioning now allows me to either
474
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:02.039
work with that athlete above and beyond
their rehabilitated care into a performance based program,
475
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:07.119
or if they're working with a trainer
or a coach that does that for
476
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.840
them. Now I can make recommendations
about the things that I would like to
477
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:14.320
see Because I have an intimate relationship
now with that athlete, I know what
478
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.400
their limitations are. I know what
they need to do now to improve their
479
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:22.599
performance. So my background of strength
and conditioning has been absolutely invaluable at all
480
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:25.400
levels of care, whether it was
for the amateur athlete all the way up
481
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:30.320
to the elite and professional athlete.
From your standpoint, Roger, working as
482
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:37.000
an ATC, I know that oftentimes
I would imagine anyway that having an athletic
483
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:42.599
trainer that also understands strength and conditioning, understands, especially those that are working
484
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:47.000
with teams, understands what's happening in
the training room could be so beneficial.
485
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:52.199
But then at the same time,
it's about educating those athletes on the recovery
486
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:58.280
and the things that they have to
do in between the practices, in between
487
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.119
the games after that injury has resolved
itself that really can make a huge difference
488
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:07.400
in their performance, improving over time. Absolutely. So one of the things
489
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:13.880
I learned early on in the athletic
training career is that strength and conditioning and
490
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:22.639
athletic training should be symbiotic. Where
we're transitioning we athletic trainers, it's rehab
491
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:27.599
to strengthen and strengthened to rehab.
It goes hand in hand, and being
492
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:35.440
of one helps. The ultimate goal
is the athlete that's in front of you.
493
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:40.199
So we're trying to we have to
be on the same page as athletic
494
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:46.800
trainers as strength and conditioning, so
that there's things that the strength conditioning they
495
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:52.039
do better than the athletic trainers do. But it goes hand in hand,
496
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:59.639
so the athletes getting the consummate care
in return to activity and as far as
497
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:05.880
certain levels of recovery go. The
idea behind the recovery is so that the
498
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:15.559
next day the athlete can optimally perform
what they're being asked to perform, whether
499
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:22.280
it be rehab or strength and conditioning. And that's where I see the work
500
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:29.599
of ATSEC coming together. Absolutely,
and I'm glad. I'm glad Roger mentioned
501
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:34.639
that team approach because a lot of
people don't understand that when you're at the
502
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.679
level that Roger has worked at,
both from a collegiate standpoint and a professional
503
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:44.599
standpoint, there's a unique synergy between
sportsmed and strength and conditioning that needs to
504
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:47.960
be there to have an elite level
program. When there's a disconnect between sports
505
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.119
med and between the strength and conditioning, I think that's where athletes fall through
506
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.440
the cracks. So that's a very
interesting point that Roger brought up there.
507
00:40:55.559 --> 00:41:00.039
I know that him working with both
collegiate and then his professional baseball background,
508
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.360
you have to have that synergy in
order to get athletes one back up to
509
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.440
performance level, but then two have
some weigh in on how to improve their
510
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.800
performance. Absolutely, and Roger,
could you speak a little bit to that
511
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:20.679
about maybe some best practices that you've
learned over the years in terms of being
512
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:23.719
a member of that sports med team, whether you're working with a new athlete
513
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:28.320
that's new to you, or maybe
you just have joined a team, how
514
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.079
do you introduce yourself just to the
strength and conditioning team, how do you
515
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:37.159
communicate with them so that that is
a symbiotic relationship. One of the things
516
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.039
is when you walk into the room, you're checking your ego, and what
517
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.559
that means is you don't know what
they know. They don't know what you
518
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:52.800
know, So let's strike up a
conversation and let's when the athletes knew.
519
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:59.360
You're wanting to just kind of have
an empty slate and there's no right or
520
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:06.440
wrong unless it's just morally ethically wrong, but to have an open mind approach
521
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:10.360
with everything that is being presented to
you from the athlete or from the strength
522
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:19.000
conditioning and always to present a united
front in front of the athletes. And
523
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:24.880
you can discuss behind closed doors,
philosophical or educated discussions, put in front
524
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:29.880
of the athlete, it's always a
united front. That's how I approached it,
525
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:34.039
and that's one of the things I've
learned with that early on in my
526
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:40.239
career. There was a difference between
athletic training and strength conditioning. And then
527
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:45.679
as I've grown and learned, I'm
like, no, they need to go
528
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:52.719
hand in hand. We need to
work together instead of butting heads with things.
529
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:57.320
So and it has to go.
It's a two way street. There
530
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.639
has to be open mindedness on both
sides as well, and so that's hence
531
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:06.960
the checking your ego. Yeah,
I can, I can absolutely see how
532
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:10.960
that could be huge. And do
you feel like that approaching things from that
533
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.639
mindset has served you well and maybe
opened some doors and opportunities for you.
534
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.440
I know you've worked with some very
high level athletes and athletic teams. I
535
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:27.400
know you've also had the opportunities to
work with some bands or some famous people
536
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:31.159
along the way. Do you feel
like approaching things from that standpoint of being
537
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:36.559
a member of a team, being
open minded and checking your ego has really
538
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:42.000
served you well and kind of opened
some doors to those opportunities. So you've
539
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:46.920
touched on working then professional athletics.
I spent eleven years in professional athletics,
540
00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:52.079
one with pro basketball and one and
ten years with professional baseball, and that's
541
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:59.400
really where I cut my teeth in
learning the value of team approach. And
542
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.679
I'm not gonna sit here and say
I was perfect. I thought I had,
543
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:09.760
I had the swag of the ego, and I got humbled and it
544
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:19.159
made me grow significantly as a professional. And they it just tremendous respect and
545
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:25.280
appreciation for people showing me the way
of humility and working as a team,
546
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:31.400
if you will. And you're talking
about traveling with some performers, entertainers,
547
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:37.920
they one of them. I didn't
even know who they were when I was
548
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:44.440
first introduced to them, and I
think that was I treated them just like
549
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:50.599
like a human Like I was not
fanboying or a fangirl or whatever whatever that
550
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:55.079
statement is. I treated them like
a human being, and I think they
551
00:44:55.239 --> 00:45:02.599
truly genuinely appreciated that. That's and
then next thing, you know, they
552
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:08.639
tell people and they're like, this
cat's authentic and he's he ain't worried about
553
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:14.480
your celebrity status. He's worried about
you. And they have a moment in
554
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:20.840
time with me where they are just
like the next person. And even the
555
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:27.000
divas of the entertainment industry feel the
same way. And it's developing that they
556
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:32.159
can trust you that you have their
best interests at hand versus what you're going
557
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:46.039
to gain from it. That's it
for today's episode. Be sure to tune
558
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:50.719
in for Part two, where we
chat more about the differences in treating athletes
559
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:55.400
at events versus in private practice.
Both providers will also talk about why they
560
00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:59.920
pack in their treatment toolkit when they're
on the road and some of them miss
561
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:05.280
conceptions they've encountered along the way,
both from the general public and other healthcare
562
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.239
providers, about what it's like to
be a member of an elite sports medicine
563
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:13.280
team. You don't want to miss
it. Our first episode of twenty twenty
564
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:16.840
four drops in two weeks. If
you have ideas for guests or topics you'd
565
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:21.320
like us to feature on future episodes, let us know. Shoot me an
566
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:28.679
email to Jessica at Factor podcast dot
com. That's Jessica at fak trpodcast dot
567
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.880
com and let me hear your ideas. We value your feedback and I'll personally
568
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:37.320
read and respond to every email received
from all of us at Factor. We
569
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.440
wish you a very happy new year
and we're so excited to share twenty twenty
570
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.760
four with you. We'll see you
next time. Hey, guys, if
571
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.880
you like what you heard today,
I encourage you to visit our website at
572
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:58.280
Factor hyphenstore dot com that's spelled fa
k tr hyphenstore dot com to find out
573
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.519
more information about all that we have
to offer. We have a variety of
574
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:06.360
online offerings as well as our hands
on Factor Rehab System course scheduled in cities
575
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:08.920
around the globe. Be sure to
also check out our event calendar and bookmark
576
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:14.119
any of these upcoming live webinar dates
coming up in the near future so you
577
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.239
can join us live. And of
course, the biggest compliment we can receive
578
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:20.440
is for you to help us spread
the word to your friends, colleagues,
579
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.960
and classmates. You'll find all the
important links as well as info about our
580
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.719
sponsors in the show notes, so
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