The Power of OCR Technology with Timothy Wood from Wink Toolbox

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Welcome to the Home Service Hacks podcast, the show for contractors who refuse to settle for average.
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Hosted by Bill Brown, licensed HVAC contractor, AI and automation expert,
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and founder of Service Titan Hacks Community.
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Each episode features real conversations with contractors, tech founders,
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and innovators who are reshaping the trades. from AI and automation to pricing,
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marketing, and management.
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If it's working in the field, you'll hear about it here. Let's get into it.
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Tim with Wink Reports, welcome to the podcast today. How are you doing?
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I'm doing great. How are you doing? Awesome. I'm doing great as well.
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Happy to have you on the show.
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And we're just going to dive right into it, okay?
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Sounds good. Can you give me the backstory of Wink Reports?
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How did the company start? Yeah. So our CEO and our CTO were the original owners.
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They were working for a technology company and saw that they had a lot more
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opportunity creating their own software and doing it within the unique business,
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like their clientele, meaning they first started with inventory and eventually
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branched off into home service companies and found that that was a lot of their niche.
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And now that we've partnered up with Service Titan, that's been a lot of our
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clientele is people who are utilizing Service Titan to the best of their ability
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and want to get that extra 20% that Service Titan just can't quite get done.
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And they need someone to help them with that.
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And so really, Wink is basically a connector. We connect your products together
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to produce reports, dashboards. We can import exports.
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For example, we have quite a few of our clients who are using Service Titan,
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but want to connect that with a Google Sheet or an Excel sheet and provide live
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data. And so we are able to do that.
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So that's kind of a little bit more about Wink. And I know you guys do a lot
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of things, but today we're going to talk about a very specific problem that
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you're solving, this OCR technology.
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Can you kind of tell me, high level, what is this technology you guys have developed?
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As far as the OCR product, this is something that I'm really passionate about
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because my background is accounting.
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I was the controller for a larger plumbing HVAC electrical company,
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as well as the general manager at one point.
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And I saw the struggles of trying to keep up with the back end side of things,
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your AP, your accounting.
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And it's a lot of data entry and a lot of just mind numbing work of just importing,
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you know, PDFs of your of your bills and entering that for job costing or for
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calculating commissions.
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So it's something that me seeing the backend work and how hard it is,
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the OCR product can, for the most part, automate that for you.
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What it does is it takes all of your emailed invoice PDFs, you would basically
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forward those over to our email, it will then take a scan of that PDF.
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And it will extrapolate the data off of there into data templates that we can pull.
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And this is an AI, so it's a smart product, meaning it can learn,
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if you correct it, it's going to learn those corrections and start to automate those corrections.
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Anyway, once it takes that data set, it can then import that into your Service
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Titan and it can upload that PDF and it can get that purchase order into Service
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Titan for the job costing.
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If you're using the AP side for Service Titan, it can then put that into there
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for you to batch and export into your accounting software.
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But what I like about it a lot is not only does it integrate with ServiceTitan,
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but we can integrate with your accounting software in most cases.
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So Hero, Sage Intact, QuickBooks Online, we can not only send it to ServiceTitan,
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but we can also send it to your accounting software where then you can reconcile
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it out of there. So two different ways of doing it.
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You can do either one or you can do both, which most products aren't able to do.
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So that's what really gets me excited about it. Yeah, and that excitement definitely
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comes from the operations and accounting standpoint of it, right?
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From talking to contractors, it seems like the accounting section and inventory
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section of ServiceTitan is really challenging for them.
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It seems like it's one of the last things that they're able to set up,
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and it's always a work in progress.
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So right now, how are contractors even solving this problem without using the
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technology that you guys have?
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What I've seen companies doing at the company, which was Black Diamond Experts,
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we were part of the Any Hour group.
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What I saw with them and with a lot of the people in the group is it was kind
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of a two-part tackle where they would have a system where their technicians
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were required anytime they made a purchase, let's say it's Home Depot,
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they would have to add that into their job as a material or as a purchase order.
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And if they did it right which was
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not very often i'm sure that as a contractor you
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i've never seen one company that has
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their technicians do it a right and b do it all the
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time that's that 80 done right that
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we might as well have zero percent only that but a lot of times companies are
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they're paying commissions off of the profitability of the job so in a lot of
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cases the technicians is they are decent advised to attach those purchase orders
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because then their materials are down and they get paid a higher commission.
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So it's almost like a double-edged sword where you were expecting them to do
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it, but at the same time, they're decent advised to do it because they get paid
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more if they don't attach those materials.
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And so that's one of the steps that is required. And the other step is kind of the backup.
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Which is a lot of companies have an accounts payable specialist,
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which they will then have to find all those invoices And if the technicians
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or the warehouse put the correct purchase order number,
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try to match it to the correct job, and then they have to manually enter that
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purchase order into service tie-in.
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And if they do it right, they should be attaching a PDF of that.
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And if your price book is correct and your backend, it should be going to the
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accounting, your GL that you're matching it to.
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A lot of times they don't, and so it can mess up your accounting if you don't
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get that side done correctly as well. So it's kind of those two sides.
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And if both sides aren't doing it perfectly, then your gross profit isn't reported correctly.
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You're overpaying on commissions or sometimes you're underpaying,
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which I found with payroll.
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I was the one who calculated all of our commissions, ran our payroll for many, many years.
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If you screw up once, your technicians or your straight commission people,
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comfort advisors, camera techs, they don't trust you. If you mess up their paycheck
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one time, now they feel like they have to watch every single time.
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So it's kind of one of those things that you've got to get it right 100% of the time.
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Otherwise, you get unmotivated technicians because they don't trust the system.
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They don't trust you or they think you're trying to cheat them out when really
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maybe it was their fault that their commissions weren't right.
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But still, they're going to come back at you.
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So it really is a massive issue.
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And we're just, Wink is there to assist where you're not only getting it right,
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but then also you're saving money and time and a lot of headache.
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So if you're a smaller contractor, you don't even have the budget to hire people
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to manually do this, right?
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So the company that you worked for, you had in-house accountant,
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you had general managers.
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And so these contractors that are on Service Titan that are your $3 million,
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$4 million annual revenue guys, you're going to have one person that has to
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do this once a week that isn't even and might not even have an accounting background, right?
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Didn't even get to, I feel, another major benefit of the OCR.
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So we touched on the accounting accounts payable, but as the controller or the
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general manager in either one of those positions, one of my fears was always
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that we didn't have someone who understood the pricing.
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They didn't understand what the parts are. They didn't understand what the equipment is.
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They didn't know what the pricing should be, but they're the ones that are pushing
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those and approving those and sending those off to get paid.
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So I was worried about, are we paying the right price?
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Because quite often when I go personally shopping and it says $4.99 on the sticker
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and you go and you scan that when you're checking out and it comes up at $6.99
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and you're like, oh, I'm getting over charts. And then you might complain.
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Well, guess what? That's not just your Walmarts that are having issues with
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that. Your suppliers are having issues with that as well.
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So while I was doing payroll, I used to manually job.
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I was the one manually job costing every single one of jobs because we paid
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commissions off of the gross profit of the job.
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And there were quite often where I would go into the job and I would look at
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our PDF of what we were getting charged.
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Let's say it was whatever, a 80% furnace, a Goodman 80% furnace.
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And I knew our price should be around $600 for that, $700.
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And yet our invoice was showing $1,600.
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And right off the bat, you know, red flag would come up.
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Because I understood the products and I understood our costing because I'd been
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in the industry for so long that I was like, all right, something's wrong.
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So I'd go to our supplier, our rep. I'd be like, hey, you're charging $1,600.
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I'm looking at our pricing and we should be paying $600 for this.
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What happened? Oh, crap, something happened. I'll go ahead and give you a credit for that $1,000.
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But if someone who doesn't understand that isn't having eyes on those consistently,
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you're just sending that off and you're paying that extra $1,000.
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Yeah, who knows? Yeah, that makes a massive difference on the profitability.
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A, what the technician's getting paid, they're going to be pissed because now
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they're not getting paid what they should.
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But then also the company is just paid an extra $1,000 for nothing.
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You know, what could you have done with that $1,000?
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Invested it into a bonus plan, invested it into marketing.
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There's quite a bit that $1,000 could have done that would have propelled you forward.
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So what our OCR, in addition to everything I've already talked about,
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what we can do is we can have your price book in our system and we can have,
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once we scan that and get that price extrapolated, that data,
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it would have been able to see you're going to charge $1,600.
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Your price book says $600.
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Do you want to update your price book or what do you want to do?
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And you can then dispute those with your suppliers because it will give you those red flags.
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It's comparing those but if it is that
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your price book is incorrect and the invoice is
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correct you can push those changes into your price book and automate your price
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book updating so that's like a third thing that i forgot to talk about which
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i feel as you know i mean i've never seen any other product or software that
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can do even i've only seen ones that can do one of those three things but not,
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Right. I've never seen it either. I understand that OCR is the right technology,
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but historically has not been really easy to set up and have accurate.
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I tried to do it with standard OCR technology, and it took a very long time
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to get it even close with an invoice format from one supplier.
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And then it was 80% accurate, which meant I still had to check everything.
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And so this technology should pay for itself.
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We were talking about how this technology needs to be programmed and taught a little bit.
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It's not something where you just turn it on and it's perfect out of the box.
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But the other day, Wink told me that they do have a human reviewing it for a
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while until it gets right. Right.
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So kind of tell me a little bit more about how that human review process works
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for the final step to make sure it's 100% right.
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Yeah, I mean, we're confident that it's going to be, you know, very accurate.
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However, there's always going to be hiccups in the system. So we do have a real person.
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This is not AI. We do have a real person from Wink who is going through each of those.
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And they're just looking at the PDF and looking at the data set and making sure
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that it looks right. that it is right.
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And if they find an error, they will make that correction. And then,
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like I said, the AI will then start to correct whatever.
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Let's say it has like a .001 at the end of the invoice.
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And it didn't recognize that dot zero zero one.
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And we put that new invoice number, purchase order number with the dot zero zero one.
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It's going to now recognize it needs to remember those last four or three numbers and the decimal.
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So it is going to remember those changes. And that's to make it where,
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you know, you're not having to worry about it as much.
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Instead, we are making those corrections to help train the AI bot along the way.
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So yeah, but yeah, we have somebody in-house who is reviewing those.
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I would hate that job, but someone's doing it.
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You kind of did that at your last company though, right? You did it round about.
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Yeah. I feel bad for her, but at the end of the day, it is, we want to stand
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behind what we are promising.
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And we understand that there are hiccups and we want to make sure that we fulfill
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our end of the bargain to the best of our ability.
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And having that human element to just double check stuff and help the AI along
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the way is the best way we can do that. Yeah, that makes sense.
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So if a contractor were to have you set this technology up for them,
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about how long would it take to start getting these invoices to go from the
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distributor into their system?
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And on average, about how long does it take for it to be, you know,
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getting near that 100% accuracy and everything?
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So typically, it depends on how many...
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Suppliers you have and whether your systems are, you know, set up.
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But what we normally are finding in the OCR does take a little bit longer than
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like setting up dashboards or reports.
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I would say normally three to four weeks for the complete roll through of making
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sure that all of the invoices are getting sent to the right place and the forwarding is working.
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And then we have all the rules in place of how you want it because there's so
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many different ways that people set up their service tie-in in terms of where
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they want things to go, the GL mapping,
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whether they want it to go just to service tie-in or to their accounting or
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to pull, how the PDFs they want those attached.
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So there's a lot of rules that need to get put in place. So yeah,
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it takes about three to four weeks to get the full implementation.
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And we do, we set up quite a few meetings where we are assisting along the growth
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path to get it to the finish line.
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And then from there, once it's implemented, I would say probably longer than
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some people would like, but I want to be honest,
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I would say probably three to four months before that AI really does learn a
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lot of those corrections and is where I would want it to be.
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You still have a human checking it.
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So just maybe the speed of it being perfect isn't there.
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But on the flip side, if you're hiring a person to do this, they're not going
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to, it's going to take three or four months for them to get it right.
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But they also can't really check themselves.
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Somebody else within the company has to check it, right?
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So now another thing that I've noticed is that Wink is now a certified Service Titan coach.
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Yeah. Is that how you describe it? I forget, like your Service Titan,
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not just a technology partner, but a coaching partner.
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So will you be able to help contractors set up some of those parts within Service
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Titan that might not be right?
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You know, because you told me that everybody uses Service Titan a little bit differently.
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Yeah. Well, certainly there are some best practices and you and the team over at Wink.
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Using Service Titan on a $30 million company, you probably had yours dialed in.
00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:12.960
Would you be able to, you know, offer some of that service to help them kind
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.080
of fill in those missing parts? Yeah. Yes.
00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:20.140
Coaching, like being transparent, that is something newer to us.
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:24.960
But what I take pride in, which most of the softwares you're dealing with,
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.160
they understand software and they don't understand your industry as well.
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:33.040
What I'm really loving about Wink, which is why I partnered with Wink and came
00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:37.760
over here, is we understand the home service industry really well.
00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:40.140
We understand Service Titan incredibly well.
00:17:40.340 --> 00:17:45.600
So that is why we decided, hey, why not pair our knowledge of the industry and
00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:51.720
Service Titan and become a certified coach? It is a rigorous program to become certified.
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:59.900
Yes, we are coaches and we can assist companies not only to get the software
00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:03.120
working, but hey, here's kind of what we've seen as best practices.
00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:08.040
Like I've actually done calls with customers and, you know, we talked about
00:18:08.040 --> 00:18:12.880
like how the OCR works and we found that they had maybe some process issues.
00:18:13.100 --> 00:18:17.700
And I was like, hey, here's kind of what I've seen best process issue or best process practices.
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.840
And here's what I would recommend you morph it into.
00:18:22.060 --> 00:18:24.760
That way it not only is going to help your business, but then also is going
00:18:24.760 --> 00:18:27.520
to assist with this OCR getting implemented quicker.
00:18:27.780 --> 00:18:32.540
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So Winx integration with Service Titan,
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:40.160
you have the OCR, you have the dashboards, you also have automations and things like that.
00:18:40.340 --> 00:18:46.180
It's a pretty comprehensive connector. And also you guys create custom reports,
00:18:46.360 --> 00:18:50.240
right? Which are actually pretty, sometimes pretty difficult to do in Service
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:55.060
Titan when you're grabbing data from a couple different places to get it to work right.
00:18:55.300 --> 00:19:00.240
Do a lot of your customers utilize the custom reporting feature as well? Yep.
00:19:00.620 --> 00:19:06.140
Yep. We actually were, I was just talking with a client yesterday where they
00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:08.480
had built, it was an incredible Excel sheet.
00:19:09.385 --> 00:19:14.385
But they had to, the problem, and I was kind of our analyst,
00:19:14.405 --> 00:19:17.985
I would call it, where I was the one who built all of our reports at Black Diamond.
00:19:18.665 --> 00:19:24.065
And it is a struggle because you have to pull in a whole bunch of data and then
00:19:24.065 --> 00:19:30.085
you have kind of like your master sheet that does formulas to calculate what you need.
00:19:30.225 --> 00:19:32.465
The problem with that is it's never live.
00:19:32.825 --> 00:19:38.445
You constantly have to refresh that data set. Maybe your formulas are pretty
00:19:38.445 --> 00:19:42.365
predetermined, but then you're constantly have to update the data sets.
00:19:42.545 --> 00:19:46.525
With Service Titan, the problem is they have different data templates,
00:19:46.745 --> 00:19:50.925
meaning you pull sales and it can't pull CSR data off of that template.
00:19:51.025 --> 00:19:56.165
You have to create two different data sets, export ball to get the full information that you need.
00:19:56.405 --> 00:20:00.845
What Wink can do is we can pull all the data sets and we can merge.
00:20:00.985 --> 00:20:04.825
We can do merge reports and then create formulas from there.
00:20:04.825 --> 00:20:09.105
And so you can basically create what you're doing with this massive spreadsheet
00:20:09.105 --> 00:20:13.825
in one sheet, and you can make it update as often as you want,
00:20:13.925 --> 00:20:16.185
depending on what you want Wink to do.
00:20:16.285 --> 00:20:22.085
But you can have it refresh every minute if you want, where you're constantly getting light data.
00:20:22.225 --> 00:20:28.545
I would imagine that 95% of listeners, no matter what CRM they're on,
00:20:28.685 --> 00:20:32.305
have some gigantic spreadsheet that they're rocking, right?
00:20:32.305 --> 00:20:37.945
Like I've talked to companies that are a hundred million dollars in annual revenue
00:20:37.945 --> 00:20:40.805
with a giant spreadsheet.
00:20:41.585 --> 00:20:48.025
It's kind of like, hmm, my little company spent six thousand dollars a month on Service Titan.
00:20:48.385 --> 00:20:53.405
And my hope when I started was to get rid of so many giant spreadsheets,
00:20:53.545 --> 00:20:56.725
man, because I I'd spent I was fortunate.
00:20:56.965 --> 00:21:01.285
I spent either fortunate or unfortunate the way depending on how you look at
00:21:01.285 --> 00:21:04.825
it. In my 20s, I spent like seven years at a company,
00:21:05.307 --> 00:21:11.207
and learned Excel very, very well, but you have to hire an Excel master.
00:21:11.727 --> 00:21:16.967
And you guys kind of solved that problem. I actually, when I was using ServiceMate,
00:21:17.367 --> 00:21:20.067
Wink was the reporting partner for ServiceMate.
00:21:20.487 --> 00:21:26.727
And so that's how I originally found Wink was years before I started ServiceTitan.
00:21:26.727 --> 00:21:31.367
And you guys helped a lot with my reporting because you had pre-built reports
00:21:31.367 --> 00:21:34.447
that were not available in ServiceMate.
00:21:34.607 --> 00:21:39.867
And it saved me tons of time. And I remember having my office actually work
00:21:39.867 --> 00:21:45.967
within Wink, and I was able to sunset some of those ridiculous spreadsheets that we had, you know?
00:21:46.227 --> 00:21:53.267
So when it comes to... Yeah, I mean, it's like, wow, I've got ServiceTitan as
00:21:53.267 --> 00:21:58.467
this giant data hub, and then now it becomes a spreadsheet that can be broken
00:21:58.467 --> 00:22:00.887
very easily with these formulas, right?
00:22:01.387 --> 00:22:06.887
So, you know, you have this OCR technology, you got the dashboards and reporting.
00:22:07.087 --> 00:22:11.627
What kind of things do you guys have coming down the line?
00:22:11.807 --> 00:22:15.747
Maybe some products that are in beta or some things on your roadmap?
00:22:15.967 --> 00:22:20.527
What do you have that's going to be next for Wink? It's a good question.
00:22:22.207 --> 00:22:27.327
We actually, in the leadership team at Wink, just had our quarterly And we're working on that.
00:22:27.467 --> 00:22:32.947
But it's most likely going to be very AI related, meaning where you can build
00:22:32.947 --> 00:22:35.547
your dashboards and reports using AI.
00:22:35.727 --> 00:22:39.607
You can just tell it exactly what you want and it can basically build it for you.
00:22:40.307 --> 00:22:46.127
I'm not saying how close that is, but that is what we're looking at is utilizing kind of the future.
00:22:46.447 --> 00:22:49.587
Some people get scared with it. Some people are like fully on board,
00:22:49.687 --> 00:22:54.927
but the future of AI is getting readily smart and impactful.
00:22:54.927 --> 00:23:00.347
And so we're going to lean pretty heavily on AI to assist us and assist us being
00:23:00.347 --> 00:23:01.407
able to take care of customers.
00:23:01.587 --> 00:23:06.587
You guys, it seems like you have a ton of little tools and you actually call
00:23:06.587 --> 00:23:08.187
it's Wink Toolbox, right?
00:23:08.447 --> 00:23:10.947
So all kinds of little things that...
00:23:12.194 --> 00:23:16.854
Would benefit contractors. So they can, maybe they start with the OCR and look
00:23:16.854 --> 00:23:19.354
at the other kind of things that you guys have.
00:23:19.514 --> 00:23:26.294
It's often that I'm talking to a client and we, you know, they're after one thing.
00:23:26.474 --> 00:23:30.074
For example, that customer who I was saying who had that big fancy spreadsheet,
00:23:30.314 --> 00:23:34.354
he spent three hours a day building that. And it was a daily report.
00:23:34.654 --> 00:23:39.774
You know, let's say 40% of their day was spent building a report that told them
00:23:39.774 --> 00:23:43.554
their efficiency by technician as far as how much we're paying,
00:23:43.714 --> 00:23:46.774
how much they were paying them versus how much revenue they were bringing in
00:23:46.774 --> 00:23:50.734
and kind of a billable efficiency type of deal.
00:23:50.974 --> 00:23:54.814
And so that's something that we could completely automate, save that person three hours.
00:23:55.254 --> 00:23:59.594
But at the same time, we started going like, hey, we can actually help you with this dashboard.
00:23:59.794 --> 00:24:04.614
We can help you with this. So people sometimes come to us thinking we're going to solve one problem.
00:24:04.854 --> 00:24:09.034
And after we have a meeting, they figure out that we can solve 10 problems for them.
00:24:09.314 --> 00:24:15.274
And so that is common, where like a lot of customers of ours don't even know that we have OCR yet.
00:24:15.414 --> 00:24:17.654
They just know that we built reports or dashboards.
00:24:17.934 --> 00:24:21.814
They have no clue that we have this AP OCR scanning feature.
00:24:22.494 --> 00:24:26.394
And that's why it's so important to, you know, schedule a meeting with us,
00:24:26.554 --> 00:24:30.354
figure out how we can help you because realistically, you don't know what you don't know.
00:24:30.874 --> 00:24:36.434
And until we have meetings, people aren't going to realize how many toolboxes we have.
00:24:36.614 --> 00:24:41.254
Yeah, that's great. That's awesome to be able to get, solve multiple problems
00:24:41.254 --> 00:24:43.674
within just one connector and
00:24:43.674 --> 00:24:50.134
one technology so that you don't have to add up and have a bunch of $399,
00:24:50.514 --> 00:24:57.214
$499, $999 a month pieces and parts or technologies connected to Service Titan.
00:24:57.394 --> 00:25:02.434
Next thing you know, your $6,000 a month Service Titan bill is $9,000.
00:25:02.434 --> 00:25:06.954
And to get it to work the way that you originally thought it was going to work,
00:25:07.134 --> 00:25:09.214
right? How many times have you, well,
00:25:09.818 --> 00:25:13.618
I haven't with a ton of companies, but you start with a new company and you're
00:25:13.618 --> 00:25:15.598
like, oh, you need to learn, let's say, service time.
00:25:15.878 --> 00:25:19.478
So you start learning service time. Oh, now you need to learn this other marketing
00:25:19.478 --> 00:25:22.138
tool. Oh, now you need to learn this podium.
00:25:22.498 --> 00:25:25.098
And then you need to learn Zapier and you need to learn. And you're trying to
00:25:25.098 --> 00:25:28.678
learn, you know, 20 different affaires that the company utilizes.
00:25:29.478 --> 00:25:33.378
Whereas if you went with Wink, you could, you know, we could A, do it for you.
00:25:33.498 --> 00:25:38.518
And B, we could probably do quite a bit of those under one system that you usually learn one.
00:25:39.298 --> 00:25:43.198
And learning all those things really isn't a process, right?
00:25:43.378 --> 00:25:48.918
If the process is in the mind of a person, then the skill set that that person
00:25:48.918 --> 00:25:50.678
has leaves with the company.
00:25:50.738 --> 00:25:53.998
And you have to start over from the very beginning.
00:25:53.998 --> 00:25:58.538
If you hire someone new, if that person leaves or if you want to scale.
00:25:58.538 --> 00:26:06.238
So I've gone into into contractors and seen, you know, they have their web browser
00:26:06.238 --> 00:26:11.718
up and there's 10 tabs open, each one with different software like you're talking about.
00:26:11.898 --> 00:26:16.818
And you go and you talk to the person, you go, OK, so how's all this working?
00:26:16.818 --> 00:26:19.618
And they look at you like, this is just a shit show.
00:26:19.778 --> 00:26:22.698
I make it happen despite the way that it works.
00:26:22.838 --> 00:26:27.678
And that's a lot of stress on people. And AI, the more you get to dig into it,
00:26:27.758 --> 00:26:32.958
the more it's able to consolidate that down and make it so you have less tabs.
00:26:33.198 --> 00:26:39.758
So the goal is less tabs in your browser makes it much easier.
00:26:40.058 --> 00:26:45.198
Going back to manually doing that report that takes three hours,
00:26:45.418 --> 00:26:49.438
from what I've talked to, that's a really high level person that does that because
00:26:49.438 --> 00:26:52.778
they're the ones that are accountable for that task.
00:26:53.164 --> 00:26:57.704
That data, when they go to a meeting, you can't just subcontract that out to
00:26:57.704 --> 00:27:01.464
someone in the company because ultimately it's your responsibility.
00:27:01.464 --> 00:27:05.044
You have to know your numbers as the manager.
00:27:05.444 --> 00:27:12.144
And so a high level person spending even an hour or two a day is incredibly
00:27:12.144 --> 00:27:16.584
expensive, not just in their salary, but in opportunity cost. Right.
00:27:16.744 --> 00:27:22.524
So I look at that as even being in that position, as I really want to get rid
00:27:22.524 --> 00:27:27.624
of any of this, this manual going through numbers kind of thing. Right.
00:27:27.804 --> 00:27:33.784
So for you going, working at Wink and going through it as a contractor,
00:27:33.784 --> 00:27:38.504
what advice would you give to a contractor who thinks that they have their numbers dialed in,
00:27:38.884 --> 00:27:43.724
but, you know, hasn't experienced any of this automated reporting? That's a good question.
00:27:44.104 --> 00:27:52.264
I guess if I could kind of do it over and look at what I should have learned quicker is, I guess, A.
00:27:52.884 --> 00:28:00.244
Anytime that you know that if you're a company who is constantly feels like
00:28:00.244 --> 00:28:05.304
you're making decisions off data that doesn't quite feel right, that's a problem.
00:28:05.304 --> 00:28:08.284
Like you have to have clean data good data
00:28:08.284 --> 00:28:12.064
to be able to make good decisions so if
00:28:12.064 --> 00:28:14.704
you don't trust your data like that that's a
00:28:14.704 --> 00:28:19.044
big problem and so you do need to figure out how to trust your data which again
00:28:19.044 --> 00:28:23.324
not trying to sell link too much but you know we can assist you in making it
00:28:23.324 --> 00:28:30.124
where you trust your data so not only that but if you do have it dialed in you
00:28:30.124 --> 00:28:33.904
know that position let's say your controller,
00:28:34.264 --> 00:28:38.824
a high level controller, they are constantly like, I don't know if you've done
00:28:38.824 --> 00:28:43.964
the training where it's about the four quadrants of where they're spending their time.
00:28:44.384 --> 00:28:50.764
And if there's seven habits, yeah, urgent, urgent, but yet not important stuff,
00:28:51.064 --> 00:28:52.624
more urgent and important.
00:28:52.764 --> 00:28:59.464
And they're constantly putting out fires and you need them to make progress in higher level stuff,
00:28:59.784 --> 00:29:02.024
if you're paying, let's say you're paying this person $100,000 a year,
00:29:02.164 --> 00:29:06.644
but yet they're spending 50% of their time doing stuff that either A,
00:29:06.704 --> 00:29:11.984
could be automated or B, could be done by somebody who is making half the cost of them.
00:29:12.324 --> 00:29:18.064
That's a problem. You do need to do a cost analysis on your employees and figure
00:29:18.064 --> 00:29:21.544
out, hey, this person realistically needs to be doing $100,000 stuff,
00:29:21.704 --> 00:29:24.884
which means I need to take away these job responsibilities.
00:29:24.884 --> 00:29:28.684
The reason why they're doing it is because they don't trust the data or they
00:29:28.684 --> 00:29:31.284
don't trust the person who's putting it together because it's complex.
00:29:31.724 --> 00:29:35.584
Leave the complexity to a company who can do it, you know, and automate it for
00:29:35.584 --> 00:29:37.384
you. And that's their skill set.
00:29:37.744 --> 00:29:43.144
And raise that person up to focusing on building up your team and building up
00:29:43.144 --> 00:29:45.184
this sales team or building up.
00:29:45.872 --> 00:29:49.332
I don't know, maybe it's funding that you're looking for to grow and scale your business.
00:29:49.492 --> 00:29:53.972
Those quadrant two, not urgent, but important activities, right?
00:29:54.072 --> 00:29:57.532
I love that you said that because I, in my office,
00:29:57.892 --> 00:30:04.632
I had a, I had printed off that matrix and I had it on the wall and I told people,
00:30:04.792 --> 00:30:10.832
so people, I hated being in, in quadrant one activities.
00:30:10.952 --> 00:30:14.312
I was in, I said, look guys, I'm in fire prevention.
00:30:14.492 --> 00:30:16.772
I live in quadrant two.
00:30:17.052 --> 00:30:21.612
So I'm sitting there. And for the people that don't know where that comes from.
00:30:21.812 --> 00:30:25.272
This is a great thing that I recommend that everybody looks at.
00:30:25.432 --> 00:30:29.412
Grab a copy of Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
00:30:29.412 --> 00:30:33.952
It's really a foundational book for management,
00:30:33.952 --> 00:30:36.752
leadership, and you'll see why it's very
00:30:36.752 --> 00:30:39.392
important for the people at the top of the
00:30:39.392 --> 00:30:42.372
companies to live in quadrant two all
00:30:42.372 --> 00:30:45.952
the time but as you as you said the
00:30:45.952 --> 00:30:49.212
in data driven decision making
00:30:49.212 --> 00:30:52.992
companies which we all want to be that q1
00:30:52.992 --> 00:30:56.012
is going to continue to pop up if you have a meeting tomorrow
00:30:56.012 --> 00:30:59.032
you have to stop the planning phase and
00:30:59.032 --> 00:31:02.172
and the you know thinking about the
00:31:02.172 --> 00:31:05.632
roadmap in the future of the company and even
00:31:05.632 --> 00:31:09.212
having like one-on-ones with employees though
00:31:09.212 --> 00:31:12.512
that's a non-urgent but important activity so
00:31:12.512 --> 00:31:15.492
man i love that you brought that up that's such a great great
00:31:15.492 --> 00:31:18.992
thing q2 baby yeah that was something that yeah
00:31:18.992 --> 00:31:22.312
like learning more about leadership that
00:31:22.312 --> 00:31:25.672
was something that i think the smaller companies eventually
00:31:25.672 --> 00:31:33.892
figure out but it took me a long time to realize that the more i me or manager
00:31:33.892 --> 00:31:38.212
the management where the leadership was focused on just putting out fires instead
00:31:38.212 --> 00:31:42.512
of really zoning into that quadrant two and spending more time there,
00:31:42.532 --> 00:31:48.232
which for me and our leadership team really came down to elevating the employees.
00:31:48.552 --> 00:31:52.852
Elevating employees and making sure our customers are ecstatic and want to want
00:31:52.852 --> 00:31:55.852
to do business with us again, want to refer us and then want to leave a review.
00:31:56.052 --> 00:32:00.752
And so if you're constantly in the weeds and in the fire, putting out fires,
00:32:00.972 --> 00:32:03.692
it makes it really hard to elevate the team because you're.
00:32:04.426 --> 00:32:06.886
I heard it all the time when I, you know, whenever you hear,
00:32:06.986 --> 00:32:10.526
hey, I have a bad manager, it's probably because they're in the fire and you
00:32:10.526 --> 00:32:14.226
ask them for help or you want to be elevated and they don't have time to elevate
00:32:14.226 --> 00:32:15.186
you. They're not developed.
00:32:15.346 --> 00:32:19.646
They're not spending time on training and, you know, elevating their teammates.
00:32:19.806 --> 00:32:24.766
And so zone in on those one on ones, zone in on, you know, quarterly reviews,
00:32:25.266 --> 00:32:29.266
zone on training, which is all that super important stuff that we always put
00:32:29.266 --> 00:32:33.326
to the back burner because we're putting out fires, which putting out the fires
00:32:33.326 --> 00:32:36.726
for a lot of people. entails not trusting the data.
00:32:36.926 --> 00:32:39.266
And so you're trying to figure out why it's wrong. And then,
00:32:39.406 --> 00:32:43.206
or creating data and spending a bunch of time there.
00:32:43.386 --> 00:32:46.666
And you're not, you're the leadership activities. You're right.
00:32:46.806 --> 00:32:52.746
Are those quadrant two activities and you can't, I agree with you.
00:32:52.866 --> 00:32:58.906
I've been in the, in the fire mode before an employee comes to you with something
00:32:58.906 --> 00:33:00.406
that they feel is urgent.
00:33:00.746 --> 00:33:05.486
And now it's just another thing on your plate. So you're not bringing your best
00:33:05.486 --> 00:33:11.386
mindset, your best attitude to employees. And that's also where you get,
00:33:11.386 --> 00:33:13.646
have retention issues, right?
00:33:13.766 --> 00:33:19.826
And you have turnover because who wants to go to somebody that's kind of always a little pissed off?
00:33:19.966 --> 00:33:26.246
The person that should be the least busy in the company is a manager, leader, CEO.
00:33:26.586 --> 00:33:32.286
They should They should not seem to you like they're busy doing busy work. Yeah. Right.
00:33:32.826 --> 00:33:38.926
And it takes, you're right, it takes in today's day and age, good, accurate data.
00:33:39.106 --> 00:33:42.746
And I think that probably back when everything was on paper,
00:33:43.246 --> 00:33:47.986
it was probably, even though it was slow and inefficient, it probably was more
00:33:47.986 --> 00:33:51.726
accurate than today where everybody just assumes it's right.
00:33:52.490 --> 00:33:57.070
And until you bring it up in a meeting and you look at it and we all look at
00:33:57.070 --> 00:33:59.790
each other and we're like, this just doesn't feel right.
00:34:00.070 --> 00:34:03.890
I would rather have no numbers than the wrong numbers.
00:34:04.110 --> 00:34:09.650
Yeah. Right. Because then the, how much of the meeting is spent on deciding
00:34:09.650 --> 00:34:14.710
whether or not the numbers are right or even trying to audit or fix those during the meeting.
00:34:15.250 --> 00:34:20.870
Wow. What a mess. If you're in your reporting, trying to fix it during a meeting,
00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:24.870
that's, you just created a fire in a meeting, right?
00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:30.050
So that's great, man. That's great. Great advice and great insight.
00:34:30.370 --> 00:34:37.270
So for those who want to spend time doing leadership activities or are in leadership
00:34:37.270 --> 00:34:42.390
positions, having accurate, automated, ready-to-go data allows you to spend
00:34:42.390 --> 00:34:44.850
time doing those. And those are more meaningful.
00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:49.990
I mean, that's where the scale, that's what I found is when the scale really happened.
00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:55.410
When we were able to zone in the future, zone in the processes and systems.
00:34:55.950 --> 00:35:00.730
I did have one more thought. And this is, I don't think is talked about enough,
00:35:00.930 --> 00:35:07.630
but there's, I see a lot of owners or managers who feel because they got person
00:35:07.630 --> 00:35:10.610
X who creates, let's say it's payroll system.
00:35:10.810 --> 00:35:14.290
You do not want to lose that payroll person. So you feel like if they quit,
00:35:14.290 --> 00:35:17.010
Your company is going to be absolutely destroyed.
00:35:17.230 --> 00:35:21.210
You put so much onus and responsibility on one person.
00:35:21.570 --> 00:35:25.510
Imagine if you didn't have that fear of losing that person who is,
00:35:25.570 --> 00:35:28.890
you know, either creating a report that you use every single day,
00:35:28.990 --> 00:35:30.390
let's say a daily huddle report,
00:35:30.770 --> 00:35:36.010
not to say, you know, you want to devaluate the person, but this can create
00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:39.990
a lot less stress about retention if someone quits, but you know,
00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:42.290
toolbox is already doing that for you.
00:35:42.290 --> 00:35:46.070
So all you have to do is say, hey, I need you to continue on this,
00:35:46.410 --> 00:35:50.590
show me or schedule this out for me versus that person leaves and now you feel
00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:51.890
like your company is going to crumble.
00:35:52.427 --> 00:35:57.527
Not only that, but we can create those, like we have those SOPs of what that
00:35:57.527 --> 00:35:59.367
looks like, how we get it done.
00:35:59.507 --> 00:36:04.607
And then now if someone else comes in new, it's an easy training process versus
00:36:04.607 --> 00:36:09.907
them trying to teach them how they're creating those five, 10 reports in person
00:36:09.907 --> 00:36:13.327
and scheduling all those meetings and overwhelming a new employee.
00:36:13.547 --> 00:36:18.467
So it does reduce the fear and it does, it speeds up the training process if
00:36:18.467 --> 00:36:22.767
you utilize a company. And it's a lot of pressure on that person because they
00:36:22.767 --> 00:36:25.427
know how integral they are to the company working.
00:36:25.687 --> 00:36:31.027
I've seen those people, they are massively stressed, which also hurts retention
00:36:31.027 --> 00:36:36.107
because they didn't, typically those people aren't compensated to have that
00:36:36.107 --> 00:36:39.107
level of stress in their position.
00:36:39.107 --> 00:36:43.207
And the reason that they're, like you said, that they have that stress is because
00:36:43.207 --> 00:36:48.907
they're not working within a process. They're continuously kind of reinventing it.
00:36:49.107 --> 00:36:54.287
And, you know, one of the things that I noticed as a, as a leader and as an
00:36:54.287 --> 00:37:01.967
operator was the more that I relied on that person to operate or to operate
00:37:01.967 --> 00:37:03.807
a process that wasn't dialed in,
00:37:04.027 --> 00:37:06.287
the less accountable I could hold them.
00:37:06.287 --> 00:37:13.647
Because to truly hold somebody accountable, you have to be willing for them
00:37:13.647 --> 00:37:16.127
to not follow what you say.
00:37:16.507 --> 00:37:24.587
And then that process is performance improvement, plans, and then ultimately termination.
00:37:24.927 --> 00:37:31.367
So you have somebody in your company that you can't hold accountable because you can't let them go.
00:37:31.647 --> 00:37:34.267
So a great process is,
00:37:34.593 --> 00:37:37.873
makes happier employees, happier managers.
00:37:38.253 --> 00:37:43.173
And ultimately that person, if they have a better opportunity in another company,
00:37:43.453 --> 00:37:47.713
I'm okay with them leaving and going to pursue that opportunity.
00:37:48.213 --> 00:37:51.733
I want everybody in the company to be replaceable.
00:37:51.873 --> 00:37:56.493
And that's not something personal against them, but hey man,
00:37:56.753 --> 00:38:02.613
you've got a company that does millions and millions of dollars and everyone
00:38:02.613 --> 00:38:09.333
that's on payroll in that company relies on you as the owner to grow the company,
00:38:09.473 --> 00:38:13.373
to grow opportunities for them, plus all of their family.
00:38:13.613 --> 00:38:18.873
And now there's just a couple of people within the company that can just sink
00:38:18.873 --> 00:38:22.053
that whole ship. That's scary for everybody, right?
00:38:22.313 --> 00:38:27.193
Yeah. And that's where scale does not happen. So if somebody wanted to learn
00:38:27.193 --> 00:38:33.153
more information about Wink and all the different services that you guys have,
00:38:33.353 --> 00:38:34.993
what would be the best way to get started?
00:38:35.133 --> 00:38:38.273
I think the best way would to schedule a meeting with us.
00:38:39.173 --> 00:38:42.773
So we, Bill, I'm sure that you can share a link.
00:38:43.013 --> 00:38:47.933
I will. I'll drop it in the podcast so that somebody can just go in and schedule that.
00:38:48.193 --> 00:38:52.533
Yeah, we'll just schedule a link. It's going to be probably either Lindsay or
00:38:52.533 --> 00:38:56.893
myself joining that. We can go through all the different features and benefits
00:38:56.893 --> 00:38:58.093
and the products that we offer.
00:38:58.173 --> 00:39:04.093
We can get to know your systems and how we can better suit you and how we can help you scale.
00:39:04.273 --> 00:39:06.793
That's really what we're about is helping companies scale.
00:39:07.473 --> 00:39:10.033
So yeah, that would be, I would say, the best way. Otherwise,
00:39:10.033 --> 00:39:13.653
you can go to our website, which is winktoolbox.com.
00:39:13.693 --> 00:39:18.793
You can schedule a free trial where you can actually trial our product for free.
00:39:18.953 --> 00:39:24.113
And then from there, if you aren't able to do it yourself, then we can help
00:39:24.113 --> 00:39:27.013
you along the way. We can build out those reports, dashboards,
00:39:27.213 --> 00:39:31.213
OCR, whatever you're looking for. If that free product, if you're not able or
00:39:31.213 --> 00:39:33.353
you don't want it, take the time to do it yourself.
00:39:34.173 --> 00:39:36.773
Yeah, give us a call and we can definitely take care of you.
00:39:37.193 --> 00:39:39.873
No, I, you know, I'm really excited about Wink.
00:39:40.073 --> 00:39:44.733
I'm really excited to take all of what I've learned as a general manager.
00:39:44.913 --> 00:39:50.193
At one point, I was an owner of a home service company and applying that to
00:39:50.193 --> 00:39:54.233
finding solutions for people. because there are a ton of solutions that you
00:39:54.233 --> 00:39:56.173
don't even realize that are out there.
00:39:56.213 --> 00:40:00.573
So I'm really excited to talk to other people. I'm excited to meet with people.
00:40:00.813 --> 00:40:03.913
This is definitely something, I'm a, I guess, a geek or whatever.
00:40:04.093 --> 00:40:05.773
And so this gets me excited.
00:40:06.013 --> 00:40:09.373
Some people, they probably hate it, which is probably more reason to talk to me.
00:40:10.261 --> 00:40:15.681
But outside of that, I just want to say that, you know, at the Any Hour group,
00:40:15.681 --> 00:40:18.021
the previous CEO of the Any Hour
00:40:18.021 --> 00:40:23.081
group, he was consistently saying how he wants to build up the trades,
00:40:23.301 --> 00:40:27.681
meaning sometimes, you know, the world, I think, looks down upon this industry
00:40:27.681 --> 00:40:30.721
and the trades, and it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
00:40:30.721 --> 00:40:34.521
So I just want to tell everybody that's listening to this, if you're an owner
00:40:34.521 --> 00:40:37.221
or if you're part of the trades, you know, be proud of yourself.
00:40:37.361 --> 00:40:38.181
Be proud of the industry.
00:40:38.761 --> 00:40:41.841
It's an incredible industry. And I absolutely love it. Well,
00:40:41.921 --> 00:40:44.641
I agree with you. That's great. That's great feedback.
00:40:45.021 --> 00:40:50.621
The people that work within the trades really love it and value it.
00:40:50.761 --> 00:40:55.061
It's more of the outside looking in where people kind of look down on it.
00:40:55.061 --> 00:40:59.881
And for those that aren't in the trades, go ahead and just notice that you're
00:40:59.881 --> 00:41:03.961
really good service tech makes six figures a year.
00:41:04.961 --> 00:41:09.901
And it's probably not good to look down on them because you also don't want
00:41:09.901 --> 00:41:12.521
to mess with the person that fixes your toilet.
00:41:13.361 --> 00:41:19.741
So, yeah. Awesome. Well, Timothy, thanks for being a guest on the podcast today.
00:41:19.901 --> 00:41:24.901
I hope everybody has some great takeaways from it and from you and Wink and reach out.
00:41:25.061 --> 00:41:29.861
Then Wink can help you dial in those numbers and make your life easier. Thanks, man.
00:41:30.141 --> 00:41:32.461
Yeah, it's been an honor. Thank you, Bill. I appreciate your talk.
00:41:33.061 --> 00:41:36.961
Thanks for listening to the Home Service Hacks podcast. Be sure to subscribe
00:41:36.961 --> 00:41:40.881
on your favorite podcasting platform so you never miss a future episode.
00:41:41.081 --> 00:41:45.601
For more information or to connect with Bill, you can check us out on Facebook
00:41:45.601 --> 00:41:50.961
at Service Titan Hacks or visit our website at servicetitanhacks.com.
00:41:51.121 --> 00:41:52.041
We'll see you next time.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:42:08.836
Music.