EP 3:11 Meth-Induced Psychosis with Patrick

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So suspiciousness in and of itself isn't bad or even clinical.
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It's actually adaptive in certain settings.
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But when you're suspicious just hanging out at dinner, when the people you're hanging out with at dinner have done or said nothing, indicating that they're trying to harm you or plot against you, that's where it becomes kind of a problem.
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So you can think of suspiciousness and paranoia on a spectrum of like very, very mild and ordinary and not causing you a bunch of distress and not making your life difficult to the other end of the extreme spectrum, which is it's there all day, every day, and it's causing you to chemsex.
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Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others.
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Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast.
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Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering.
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Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast.
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I'm your host, Dallas Bragg.
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So glad you're here.
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Thank you for joining us for another season.
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Hope you're enjoying the season so far.
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I've had some really big names this time and um big topics.
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Topics that really, when I started doing the podcast, I wanted to cover and just never have.
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Um, but today, before I get to the guests, I just wanted to give a little background.
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And for those of you who are have been in the chemsex scene can identify with this that there was a time when I experienced meth-induced psychosis.
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And I had been up probably nine days.
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That was my average.
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Um nine days in a row.
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And typically I would just pass out.
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Um, but for on this particular night, for whatever reason, something clicked, and I spent the night curled up in a ball in the corner of my room, thinking that I was surrounded the house had been surrounded.
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This was right after I was literally arrested.
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I was arrested the first time, and I was on probation.
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So I think that, of course, that had something to do with it.
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I really thought the house was surrounded.
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I thought that they were trying to get inside.
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I forgot how to use the phone.
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The the natural way when I'm high from to use my phone was I went straight to Grinder.
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And I started texting for help to people on Grindr.
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So you can imagine how that might have gone over.
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Um and so it was a crazy night.
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Just I really thought it was true.
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I don't know at what point I I finally passed out.
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So real and so vivid what I was seeing, the shadows moving in the windows, you know, the shadows in the window.
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Um, so that was for me one of the only times that I had psychosis, but I was around so many men who were in it often while we used, but the men who stayed in it too, after.
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I always had a just a just a soft spot for them.
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And so I have been looking for somebody with experience in this to come on the podcast and kind of help you listeners be seen and be heard and to feel less stigmatized and less like you're crazy, um, and help us understand this a little more.
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And so I found a gym, Dr.
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Patrick Lockwood, who's in LA.
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Uh, he's friends, he is a friend of our friend, Mel McCracken, who's been on the podcast several times, um, and we'll probably be back.
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Um, but Patrick, can you introduce yourself, please?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Thanks for thank you.
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Really appreciate you having me on for various reasons.
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And uh this topic is something that's really important to me because of not only my professional life, but also a lot of the people I know in my our community who struggle with this.
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So it's a personal thing and a professional thing for sure.
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So uh for the folks that have never heard of me or seen me anywhere, I'm a licensed clinical psychologist in California.
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I live in LA, roughly speaking, and I have spent most of my career in what I affectionately call rehabistan, because um the different uh rehabs have different philosophies and beliefs, as you know.
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And so uh I've spent most of my life uh in a non-kidding sense.
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I I've helped people with very severe substance use disorders that usually are called addictions.
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And I've worked at every level of care, I've worked in every kind of program, fancy rich programs, community mental health programs, psych hospitals.
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So I kind of know the entire system inside and out.
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And my uh other life is being a professor at California Lutheran University.
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So I have the privilege of teaching future doctors, doing clinical supervision with them, and things like that.
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And so as a clinical supervisor and as a professor, as a treatment professional, uh, I've tried to look at this problem we call uh chemsex uh as many different ways as we can.
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And, you know, just to toss something out there for you and for everyone, one thing that really sticks out to me about the challenge of psychosis when it comes to chemsex is it really adds a dimension to an already very complicated emotional issue that I think people are afraid to talk about because psychosis is kind of a spectrum.
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It's not like a black and white, you're psychotic or you're not experienced, right?
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So if you think of you know the diagnostic version of things, most psychotic disorders have kind of three categories of symptoms.
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There are the so-called positive symptoms, which are the hallucinations or delusions, and then there are the so-called negative symptoms, which are like poverty of speech, poverty of thought, uh motivation, stuff like that, things that are absent that should be present.
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So you should have motivation, right?
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And then you have just general disorganization as a person, right?
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And so depending upon how much meth you use or whatever substances you're combining, you might be very disorganized just because of the polypharmacy of it all, right?
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And if you find yourself in a chemsex situation where there's just lots of people because it's like a bathhouse or an orgy or whatever it is, there's just psychological disorganization because of the setting that you're in, right?
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And so chemsex to me is an extremely complicated problem, especially as it relates to psychosis, because you're already in settings, in my opinion, often, that are disorganizing in and of themselves.
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And then when you add the chemical disorganization because of meth or whatever it is, it just makes an already difficult experience ten times more difficult.
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So I feel a lot of sympathy for people in our community who go through this because they have this like quadruple whammy of an experience beyond just the shame around sex and sexuality and and compulsive sexuality.
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Then there's that chemical version of it, but then there's also paranoia.
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So it's just it's there's just so much going on that's hard for any person to handle.
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You can be the smartest person or the sanest person or the healthiest person, but as we all know, meth is not something you can just mess around with casually.
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There's in my life, I've never myself met a casual meth user.
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It sounds good on paper for some people, but it's it's hard for that to be a casual habit, you know what I mean?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I get that's one of the questions I get asked often.
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Can I use this casually?
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Can I use this recreationally?
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And that's and I'll always say, if you could, I would be doing it.
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I would be using it casually.
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Right, yeah.
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And if you could, you wouldn't be talking to me right now.
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Um, right.
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Um yeah, so can you talk about then the spectrum of psychosis, if you if you don't mind?
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And what's the difference between psychosis and parano paranoia?
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Well, paranoia is just one feature of psychosis, right?
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So let's talk about paranoia first, and then we'll talk about like the spectrum idea, right?
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Because I think a lot of people have like black and white thinking about these mental health topics, and I I want to make sure that you know the real complexity is honored so we can honor where people are at, you know?
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So paranoia is just a type of delusion, basically, right?
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It's it's a filter that your brain has, right?
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So there's different types of delusions.
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There's grandiose delusions where you think you're more special and amazing than you are.
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There's delusions of love where you believe people are in love with you when they're actually not, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so, and just so everyone knows, a delusion is just simply a fixed, false belief, a belief that doesn't change when there's new evidence presented to you, right?
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And so all of us have incorrect beliefs, but usually those change when we're presented with new evidence.
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But a delusion is a complicated system of beliefs that is resistant to true and accurate information, right?
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So, you know, so a paranoid delusion basically is where the individual has fixed false beliefs about suspiciousness, about being harmed or being threatened that aren't grounded in actual experiences of threat, right?
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So classic paranoia involves, you know, believing that a person you're interacting with has ulterior motives or hostile motives when they've actually not said or done anything in reality.
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Yeah.
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Yeah that warrants that judgment of yours.
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Or just general suspiciousness that's not warranted, right?
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So suspiciousness is perfectly ordinary, actually.
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We should all have, or at least my opinion, is we should all have some some like garden variety suspiciousness because like that person might be staring at their phone and cut you off while they're driving, right?
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So you should be a little suspicious of the people driving next to you, right?
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Yeah, right.
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Not in the sense that you have a a psychotic disorder, but in the sense of like, is that person actually paying attention to the road?
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Or are they just staring at their phone because they're kind of selfish, right?
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So suspiciousness in and of itself isn't bad or even clinical.
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It's actually adaptive in certain settings.
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But when you're suspicious just hanging out at dinner when the people you're hanging out with at dinner have done or said nothing, indicating that they're trying to harm you or plot against you, that's where it becomes kind of a problem.
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So you can think of suspiciousness and paranoia on a spectrum of like very, very mild and ordinary and not causing you a bunch of distress and not making your life difficult, to the other end of the extreme spectrum, which is it's there all day, every day, and it's causing you to read into things that the average person wouldn't read into, and it's making you really stressed out all day, and it's causing a lot of impairment in your life, right?
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So I think of it like very, very mild and not problematic to very extreme and all day and causing lots of problems and distress for you, if that makes sense.
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Yes, yeah.
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Yes, so fixed false belief, paranoid delusion.
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So a common one is there are cameras in my house.
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Right.
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There are cameras in my lights or my sp sprinklers or my vents.
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Um and no amount of picking apart, tearing apart, pulling from the wall proves even if you take the smoke alarm apart, you it you're not convinced that there's not a camera in it.
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Is that right?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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If that if if I'm in that though, what or or let's take it from both sides, if I'm in that, uh how do I then uh ease up on it?
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Is there a way for me to if I if if evidence doesn't resolve it, then what does at that point?
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Yeah, so uh what uh when I think about most of these topics, I like to have a metaphor on deck that might make it easier to to have realistic expectation.
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Because I think you and I both very much care about realistic expectations as people, as providers, right?
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Right.
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So I think most people now this is just a metaphor, so it's not literally true, just so everyone's clear.
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So don't you know cancel me or whatever.
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Right.
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But like but if you think of most of our mental health symptoms as reflexes, it really helps.
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So like a reflex that I don't think anyone believes they can control is a sneeze, right?
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So if your nose is irritated, either because of nose candy, or because of allergens and pollen, or because you know it's all dried out because you're dehydrated or you're not drinking enough water or whatever.
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Whatever's causing your nose to be irritated will will force you to sneeze, right?
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That's a reflex.
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It's not under our control.
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I don't think people, I'm to my knowledge at least, can't make themselves sneeze.
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And so no one in their right mind would be like, I need to sneeze less.
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Right?
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Right, right.
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And as much as you know, we can have a sneezing fit where we sneeze over and over and over again, and it's really upsetting and you get lightheaded and whatever, but no one thinks I have a pathological sneezing problem, right?
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And I kind of think I think of these intrusive thoughts and delusions in a very similar way.
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These are reflexive things that your brain is doing to keep you safe, right?
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Even though your brain is misreading the environment and is misjudging how unsafe you are, okay, the delusion itself, the paranoia itself is just a reflex, like a sneeze.
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And so you can't really keep yourself from sneezing.
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But what you can do is you can notice what's irritating your nose, right?
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And likewise with the paranoia, you can notice what's irritating this paranoia reflex, right?
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So, what are the stimuli that are causing you to misinterpret reality, right?
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And I say cause very like casually, not like technically and scientifically, right?
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So you might look in the vent in your ceiling and think there's a camera there, or you might misperceive something in your vent or whatever.
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And you're right, no amount of taking the vent apart is gonna get rid of that.
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But then the question is, is that what's causing the sneeze, or is it your perception that's causing the sneeze?
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Right?
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So you're you're looking at something, you're putting your attention on something, and can we do something with that attention?
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I wonder.
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So you find yourself staring at the vent.
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Could we distract ourselves for a little bit, for instance?
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Distraction in small doses is very useful.
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It's like an intentional interruption skill, if that makes sense.
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Yeah.
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But it doesn't solve the problem, it doesn't get rid of the paranoia, it just temporarily gets you out of that fixation so that you can maybe engage in some of what we call metacognition to get your brain back focused on something else that's more productive.
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You know?
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Or can we do some reality testing?
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If you're feeling comfortable enough in your skin, can we try some reality testing?
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You know?
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Can we check on what do I believe?
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On what basis do I believe that this is real?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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You know?
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So distraction and reality testing are skills that take time to develop, but they don't solve paranoia, they just help you manage it once it sets in.
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If that makes sense.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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I think it's important for the listener to know to manage the expectation.
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Yes.
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So if you're ex if you're expecting to solve it, you may get disappointed, you may get uh frustrated, you know, you're you're you're going to set it yourself up for failure almost.
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Yes.
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But if you say, I'm going to manage this, this is here, it's not going anywhere, I'm going to sneeze anyway.
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Yes.
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So I'm going to manage to sneeze, I'm going to put my arm up.
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Right.
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Right.
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Exactly.
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But it's not everywhere.
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Yeah.
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We're kind of talking exactly that.
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Like we're managing.
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Yeah.
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Because the paranoia does not magically go away even with the best psych meds, you know?
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So it's a question of can we find temporary coping skills that allow us to feel just a little less worried and anxious?
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And also at some point start to feel more in control again.
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Because most people with paranoia feel out of control.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Okay.
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So for you listening, is the the distraction, the metacognition by distracting yourself and then the reality testing, you know, and what do I believe?
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But at the end of the day is is in control of it and managing it.
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Just manage it.
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Because it uh I I and you correct me if I'm wrong here, but one thing that I see is is the response to it as well that can ignite it.
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Yeah.
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So when I look at the vent and I think there's a camera in it, if my response is, oh my God, I'm crazy.
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I can't believe this is happening.
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I there's something wrong with me.
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I'm damaged goods.
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I'm what I'm never, I shouldn't have ever done that myth.
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Is this the rest of my life?
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Those kinds of thoughts to me are not healthy and can it to I I don't know if it's scientific, if it's scientific or not, but it it it couldn't help matters, right?
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Yeah, we call that catastrophic thinking or catastrophizing, right?
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Right, right, right.
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And so every time we're catastrophizing, it's usually making our life worse.
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Now, obviously, there are examples where catastrophizing is perfectly useful.
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You get in a car accident, you should be catastrophizing because, like, oh my God, am I hurt?
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Is my car screwed?
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What's going to happen?
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So the catastrophizing will force you to focus on the immediate situation and solve a problem.
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But catastrophizing while you're paranoid is definitely going to make everything worse, for sure.
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So managing catastrophic thoughts through either reframing, perspective taking, other cognitive coping skills, or just taking a breath, taking a step back and taking a breath.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:14.319
If you're in the headspace where you can kind of get yourself to take a breath and just try to center yourself if you can for even five seconds, you know, that would be good.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.839
You know, anything that gives you a break from the immediate distress is good.
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:23.920
Yeah, so there's a billion examples.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:32.559
And if you're listening, I know like you you think the same person is following you, or you know, all sorts of things.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.160
There's there's cameras in your uh laptop, you know.
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:44.160
It used to be the first thing when a guy would come over to my house for a chem sex party, he would he would deck duct tape on all the cameras.
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.279
Yeah, you know, oh yeah.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.839
On the laptops, everywhere, right?
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.680
Um, duct taping the blinds down and all of that kind of thing.
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.319
Yeah.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.640
Um, this is before you got high.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:55.599
Right.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:15.119
And and so what we're talking about here to me is when you're not high, when you're not, you know, you're you're not high on crystal meth, when you're high, this method-induced psychosis of when you're high, um, that that comes in, and and I'm guessing, uh do you help men?
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.160
Do they do are they able to recall any tools to help them through that when they're high?
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:35.839
Like, is there something that we can help if if you do use, if you have psychosis when you're you know you're chemically induced, is it are there any chances that that they might remember something or or make it a little less?
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:38.720
Yeah, it's tough.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.079
I mean, because like everyone's different when they're high.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:50.319
So there are some commonalities around euphoria and power and all that stuff, and and even psychosis too.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:57.039
But the idea that there's like a universal way people are gonna be able to remember things or not, I don't know.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.680
Like, I once once upon a time uh I used to run a tree.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.720
Program called La Fuente, which is a LGBT spot here in Hollywood.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.599
And a lot of our Kim Sex folks had very diverse experiences with being like present while they were high.
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:19.920
Like some people did have the presence of mind to remind themselves or use metacognition to reorient themselves.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:32.960
And sometimes, I don't know how much this has happened in your life or in your coaching life, but like sometimes people have like a moment of clarity in the midst of doing something that they're like, I can't believe my life has come to this or something like that, right?
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:33.440
Yes.
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.480
And um, sometimes you can capitalize on those moments, right?
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:49.279
Uh, I just think people are very different, you know, it depends upon how much meth you're actually using, if you're using other substances, if you're trying to come down with something, all these things, right?
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.480
So I don't know.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:55.680
But if you if you do have the presence of mind to go, hmm, can I do something to feel better right now?
00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:01.839
Then there's lots of things you can try, but for most people, it's a time problem.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.039
It's like you gotta wait until it's out of your system, you know?
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:05.680
Right.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.319
Right, right.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.920
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.359
Okay, thank you.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.920
This is this is really helpful so far.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.759
Very helpful, actually.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.519
Is there do you know why?
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.119
And this is worldwide.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:30.000
You know, it doesn't matter where where a man DMs me from, the paranoia, the the psychosis, it has the very same, it's all similar, similar.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:34.480
You know, it's it's all thinking that people are watching me.
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.599
It's the paranoia of someone's after me.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.599
You know, the the the the cashier is in on it.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:42.559
You know what I mean?
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:49.119
Like it doesn't matter, like from China, Australia to Europe to Canada.
00:23:49.440 --> 00:24:02.240
I I get I get these calls from men who are inside their home, scared, they can't speak to me above a whisper because they're convinced everything they do is being recorded.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:13.200
When it I had a guy say, when he goes, he he there's a grocery store across the street, he puts a hood on, sunglasses, he runs as fast as he can, grabs the food, runs back.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.200
Like this is his life.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:25.599
It's uh is there any research, and I maybe I should have done research, but I mean, why is it so similar no matter where?
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.119
Is it just and why does it affect the brain that way?
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:34.160
Yeah, well, let's I guess we could back this up a little bit, right?
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:43.039
So I think first we should talk about what people there's there's like a dozen things I want to say.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:47.519
I'm gonna try and filter it down to a couple so we don't spend six hours talking to each other.
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.480
So uh I think you have things you want to do too.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.680
So I would say so.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:57.920
We need to, I think, talk about what normal actually is, right?
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:07.680
I think if we have a real candid conversation about what it means to be a regular person, I think maybe this will be less stigmatizing for people who are struggling with paranoia.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:09.680
So Okay, okay.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:22.079
My my understanding, you know, having looked into this both on the chemsex side of things, but just on like the, you know, I teach a lot of psychopathology classes for Cal Lutheran.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:32.559
So I've done a lot of looking into how does the brain normally process information, especially emotional information, because I'm trying to teach people about other disorders.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:43.519
So one thing that I think a lot of people take for granted is the power of denial and how good our brain is at filtering out information.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:51.519
So, like right now, you and I are both being bombarded by dozens and dozens of sensations.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:57.200
Visual sensations from the computers and the lights in our room and shadows and all these things.
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:13.759
We're also being bombarded by sensations from our ears because we have headphones on and all these things, but we're also being bombarded by the sensations of our skin and the clothes that we're wearing and the temperature and push and pull.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:22.079
And so basically, our brain is always literally being bombarded by dozens and dozens of sensations.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:29.920
And all day long, your brain does this beautiful job of just filtering out what you should actually quote unquote pay attention to.
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:37.599
So our attention is very limited to a few things, three or four things, maybe, maybe five things if you're super aware.
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:48.960
You know, advanced meditators might be able to notice six or seven or eight things, but like most people only really attend, they put their conscious attention to a couple of sensations.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:49.680
Okay.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:50.880
Right?
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:51.440
Okay.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:27:01.119
But but that doesn't mean your brain is not being bombarded by dozens and dozens of sensations, maybe hundreds of sensations at any given moment.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:05.200
But your brain filters them out so you don't pay attention to them.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:06.400
Right?
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:15.839
So the average person, if they could pay attention to all the sensations that are happening in a given moment, probably would lose their mind.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:16.720
Right.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:17.920
Yeah.
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:25.119
Because our brain's not good at processing hundreds of things at once consciously.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:28.480
It unconsciously processes a bunch of things.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:29.599
Right?
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.480
So does that generally make sense?
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.799
Well, it makes sense to me, so probably everybody who's listening to it too.
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:37.119
Yes.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:37.839
Okay, cool.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:46.720
So part one of my little thesis here is we're bombarded by sensations all the time, but we have denial that keeps us from paying attention to them.
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:48.319
Because it's just not useful.
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.039
Like, why do we need to give a shit about the noise outside?
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:52.880
It's not gonna kill me.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.240
Right.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:09.119
But but now imagine, imagine you were to take a substance or have a meditative experience or something that could transform your ability to focus.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.240
And as we all know, methamphetamine is a phenomenal focusing substance.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:16.160
Yes, sure does.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.480
Yeah.
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:17.200
Right?
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:29.599
But the problem is when you're focusing, when you're hyper-focusing on getting late or whatever it is, or getting high, or both, that doesn't mean your attentional resources are literally only devoted to that.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:35.519
All of your other senses are now heightened, which means you can now pay attention to more things.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:38.319
Unfortunately.
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.200
Right.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:29:01.519
So meth has this beautiful and tragic gift of allowing you to take that ordinary denial mechanism we all have to not give a shit about the dozens of other sensations, and it starts to erode it and allow your consciousness to pay attention to more things, which is anxiety-inducing and paranoia-inducing for all people.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:02.559
Right?
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.240
Like, I'm just gonna give a completely silly example.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:15.599
So most of us have the gift of denial all day around so many things because it's not evolutionarily useful.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:20.880
We'd lose our mind if we actually told the whole truth to ourselves.
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:27.599
So, for instance, right now, again, just making a completely hyperbolic example.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:37.759
Right now, we're sitting on a rock in the middle of space that's going thousands of miles an hour and could basically be bombarded by an asteroid at pretty much any time.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:40.480
Theoretically, NASA could detect it, etc.
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:43.839
But like in reality, that threat's always there.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:44.960
Number one.
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.160
Number two, here in California, earthquakes could happen.
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:49.440
Who knows at any time?
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:53.920
Just, you know, I'm near the coast, it could fall into the ocean, and so on and so forth.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.759
That's threat number two, is earthquakes.
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:57.519
So threat number one is asteroids.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.440
Threat number two, earthquakes.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.119
Threat number three, nuclear war.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:06.640
Uh, I don't remember the name of the person, but there's a journalist who did research on like how quickly would things happen?
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.960
Could we protect ourselves from a nuclear war?
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:15.759
And I'm pretty sure it's like we have less than 45 minutes to get our shit together, and we're all probably gonna die anyways, basically.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:16.240
Right.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:16.799
Right, right.
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.279
So threat number three is nuclear war, right?
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:35.279
And I can go on and keep listing things that are quite literally present threats that could realistically happen, but we're really just gloriously in denial about them all day, every day of our lives, right?
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.119
So I just listed three catastrophic things, right?
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:45.599
But for the most part, none of us walk around catastrophizing about the asteroids, the earthquakes, or the nukes, right?
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.960
Because we believe that you know mutually assertive destruction is going to keep us from nuking each other, right?
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.599
It's not true, technically, right?
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.039
But it's it's denial.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.759
So our brain, our brain is all day, every day engaging in ordinary denial.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.680
Like we we have defense mechanisms to keep us sane.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.839
And sanity is not the absence of real information.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:16.720
Sanity is the absence of real information in a way that allows us to feel calm over time.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.240
That's all it really is.
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:24.640
But there's a bunch of real information that is actually paranoia-inducing.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.839
Like your government literally is listening to you through your phone.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:30.319
That's not a myth, that's not a meth hallucination.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.440
We know that now.
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:32.240
Right.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:39.759
Thanks to Edward Snowden and a bunch of other whistleblowers, we know that the federal government has literally been listening to people through their cameras.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:43.680
So all the the tweakers actually have it correct, believe it or not.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:44.160
You know?
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:44.400
Yeah.
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:54.559
So, so, you know, we live in a world with actually constant threat, even though it's, you know, here in the West, it's it's better than it's ever been.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:09.839
It's technically true that if you were to actually pay attention to all the real threats that exist in your life, then you would be a little suspicious and paranoid walking around every day.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:24.000
But most of us have the gift of denial, this normal defense mechanism, which is a reflex, to not give a shit about these things and focus on the present moment or focus on this podcast or focus on work or whatever it is.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:24.480
Yeah.
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:25.279
Yeah.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:31.920
Because we would just lose our minds if we thought about all the very true things all day, right?
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:52.319
So, to me, one of the reasons why I just a long-winded answer to get back to why I think everyone has the exact same kinds of suspiciousness and paranoia is because it's actually very rational to believe that the people you're randomly meeting at the supermarket could kill you because technically they could.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:53.359
Yeah.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:54.160
Right?
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:55.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.759
That that cashier might have a weapon on them.
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:02.960
That cashier, that cashier might be on drugs that makes them violent, for instance.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:03.920
Right?
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:06.799
So those are not unrealistic threats.
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:15.759
It's just that our brain loves to be in denial about them because, well, nine times out of ten, that's not gonna happen to me.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.599
So why should I care about it?
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:18.480
Right?
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:32.480
And so to me, I think paranoia is just acknowledging reality, unfortunately, that our brain's normally in denial about because it doesn't serve us to be out of denial about it, if that makes sense.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:33.599
I see.
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:34.880
I see.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:36.720
Yeah.
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:45.680
See, this is a this is a very it's a a a perspective shift that I think can help a lot of people.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:55.279
Yeah I I'm just seeing I'm just paying attention to reality that others aren't.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:59.680
And adding a layer of meaning that most people don't.
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.440
Yes, and adding a layer of meaning that most people don't.
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:10.079
So what is most in my control perhaps is the meaning I'm making.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:13.280
Exactly, because the attention's not gonna go away.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:14.239
Right.
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.199
Right.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.800
Not until you've had some time and you've gotten better and your body's regulated, your brain's regulated.
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:32.079
But the meaning, this you know, the suspicious meaning of like that person looked at me, right, and I think they have plots against me, it's that meaning that you can play with.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:33.199
Right.
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:34.000
Yeah.
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.320
How can I play with that?
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:38.719
Practically.
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:44.880
I mean, the the coping skill from cognitive therapy is called per perspective taking.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:46.000
Right?
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.599
So perspective taking is quite literally what it sounds.
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:56.000
You're just paying attention to the original perspective you had, which is I think this person's out to get me.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.400
And can we add alternative perspectives to that?
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:00.880
Okay.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:05.840
We're not trying to get rid of or challenge the original perspective.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.559
We're just adding alternative perspectives.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:09.199
Okay.
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:09.840
Right?
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:18.719
So if someone's actually psychotic, they still have like schizophrenia as a diagnosis, you don't challenge the paranoia.
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:28.480
What you do is you help them tolerate the feelings, like we were talking about, but then you also help them look at alternative perspectives if they're open to it.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.840
But if you're not open to it, don't force it.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:32.480
Okay.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:33.599
Right?
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:34.079
Okay.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:34.800
Okay.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:36.559
Okay.
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.079
Because when you force it, you're trying to confront reality.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.760
And that does not work if you're experiencing psychosis, whether it's drug-induced or due to schizophrenia.
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:54.719
So if you are a little more open-minded despite the paranoia you're experiencing, you can try adding alternative perspectives.
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:02.159
But be be careful because it might spin you out if you add a bunch of negative and suspicious alternatives.
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:02.639
Right.
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:02.880
Right.
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:03.840
It could go the other way.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:04.800
It could go the other way.
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:05.199
Right.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:06.000
Yeah.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:08.719
That person is talking about me.
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.320
An alternative perspective might be that person the opposite.
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.559
That person is not talking about me.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:15.119
Yeah.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.239
Or they're having or maybe they have a bad look on their face because they're pissed off at themselves.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.079
Or they hate their job, right?
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.639
Yeah.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:23.280
Yeah.
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:24.000
Yeah.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:24.559
Right.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.239
The cashier hates his job.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:27.360
The cashier had a bad day.
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.119
The cashier's boss is a dick.
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.760
Okay.
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:30.719
Okay.
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:31.440
Yeah.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.360
If you're open to that, those are all different things.
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:34.719
Yeah.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.119
And if you're not, then don't force it.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:44.800
You know, because when you're when you're in a very fearful place and you're very resistant, then pushing on yourself will not work.
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:46.800
Especially if you're paranoid.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:47.440
Yeah.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.039
If you're struggling with paranoia.
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:55.119
Would this also be an opportunity to ask on what do I believe the reality?
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:57.599
Yeah, you can ask yourself that question.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:58.239
If you're up to it.
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.320
If you're up to it, yeah.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:00.800
Okay.
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:10.000
But you know, my favorite thing is if someone is really struggling, the first question I always have is, what do I want to do to feel better right now?
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:10.639
Okay.
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.280
Because you're going to be able to do that right now.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:17.440
Yeah, because there's usually something super simple.
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:24.480
I can take a breath, I can go outside and get some sun, or I can go to a quiet place, or whatever it is.
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:28.559
Yeah.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:29.679
Yeah.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.519
I love it.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.039
What about a word or a mantra or something like that?
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:40.559
I guess anything that can anything that can bring you out of it.
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.199
I mean, some people might respond well to that.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.920
Yeah, you're like trying to you're trying to train your brain to like snap out of it, right?
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:50.000
That's I I think that's a great idea.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.400
Some people might do well with it, some people might not.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:53.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:38:02.639
Yeah, I mean, I I I have a feeling this is very much individual to uh all of it, all everything, every treatment.
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:09.360
So each person, if you're listening to this, uh just understand that it could work for you, it might not work for you.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:15.360
Um, but be you know, trying it all until you find something that works, right?
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.239
Yeah.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:16.800
Yeah.
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.480
And it it requires experimentation, in my opinion.
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:27.679
Like I've never worked with someone clinically who was struggling with psychosis where I just had the perfect playbook and it just worked.
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:28.079
Yeah.
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:30.719
It's always we've got to experiment, we've got to play.
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.599
I like the word play.
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:35.760
We've got to play with how much anxiety I can tolerate right now.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.280
We've got to play with how much reality I can tolerate right now.
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.519
Like it's not black and white.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:42.320
It's very gray.
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:45.039
It's very situation and person specific.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.679
Yeah.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:46.159
Yeah.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:46.719
Okay.
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.599
All right.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:49.599
Thank you.
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.559
All right.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:58.320
So a a big question I get is will my brain for lack of better words, heal.
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.400
I don't know that heal is the right word here, because it's not broken.
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:13.840
But will I will it resolve over time if I continue on my meth-free, you know, consecutive time frame?
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:23.599
And I know there's probably no time frame to tell them, but is there do are there rates, there are percentages or or or is that also individual?
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:25.599
It's very individual.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.159
Okay.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.719
We we have some like national level data that's kind of helpful, but I I uh to me, I don't want to overpromise things for people.
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.559
It's not it's not very reasonable.
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:46.880
I think most people I've met, especially in a treatment setting, can certainly have substantial symptom relief.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:55.760
However, the timeline, being patient with yourself, is really important because I think back to the expectations thing.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:01.679
If we're not patient with ourselves, then we usually set ourselves up for you know failure, right?
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:07.840
And so, you know, do you expect to feel completely fearless or something in six months?
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:09.840
Probably not super realistic.
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:11.519
I guess it's possible.
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:19.840
I mean, I don't know that there's a quick way for anyone to feel better is if they're having meth-induced psychosis.
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:28.480
I think it's a question of are you doing everything that you have in your power right now that's reasonable to feel better, right?
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:35.199
Because some people maybe they work a really complicated job and they don't have time to take care of themselves as much.
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:44.400
Uh, maybe they have certain disabilities that make it harder for them to do good things that are for recovery, like, you know, exercising is good for everybody's brain.
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:47.760
But with the right kinds of disabilities, you can't really do that as much.
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:49.440
So you have to find alternatives.
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:57.360
And so, you know, being reasonable and being patient is extremely important if you have meth-induced psychosis.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:03.760
And when I say reasonable, I mean like reasonable with yourself, expectations for yourself.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:15.920
You know, it's okay to want to feel better quicker because you probably are terrified, you probably have shame and stigma, and you're tired of being seeing yourself as broken, right?
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.679
I want to fix myself quickly.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.079
When you and I both know there's no such thing as fixing yourself, number one.
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:22.400
Yeah.
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:22.880
Yeah.
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:27.280
Number two, it takes time for your brain to heal.
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:36.800
And so, depending upon how long you've been using, what other drugs you've been using, what other behaviors you've been doing that hurt your brain, you know, it could take longer.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.079
And we have to be reasonable, we have to be patient, you know?
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:50.559
So, you know, if you have the resources and the time to do extra things to take care of your brain and help it heal to eat better food and get better sleep.
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.679
And, you know, if you need meds, take meds.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:58.000
If you drink enough water, like all the simple stuff, do as much of it as you can.
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:02.480
And all the extra stuff, if you have the resources, I hope you can do it too.
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:03.199
Yeah.
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:03.920
Yeah.
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:09.599
I I I I like you said, I think the most important step first is to manage the expectation.
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:10.559
That's right.
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:12.719
And set the stage, right?
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:20.800
Um, I asked a couple of places for questions, and I was just going to check one more time to make sure I didn't get any questions.
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:28.159
Um there was a and then I lost the question that I had when I looked.
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:38.559
The psychotic meds you've mentioned a couple of times, uh are those difficult to attain it.
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:46.960
It depends upon where you live, because some areas have a lot of uh telemedicine nowadays, and some areas don't, right?
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:51.360
So obviously it'd be ideal if you could go see a provider in person.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:43:15.280
Now, if you're having some kind of extreme symptoms, like if you're having excessive anxiety or excessive fear or panic, or the hallucinations are causing voices that are very, very loud and you can't control them, you can go to like an emergency room or an urgent care, and there's a good chance they'll prescribe you something to help you calm down right away.
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:19.599
It might be a benzodiazepine or it might be an antipsychotic.
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:37.360
Um that being said, in an ideal world, it'd be great if you could find a psychiatric nurse practitioner or a psychiatrist who can help you with maybe some comfort medications like beta blockers or something to help you feel less anxious.
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:37.840
Okay.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:44.079
Or uh if needed, if it's actually recommended, certain antipsychotic medications can help.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.239
But usually for delusions, they help less.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:49.199
Okay.
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.039
Delusions, they help less.
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:53.840
Yeah.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.760
So if you're experiencing a lot of grandiosity or a lot of paranoia or things like that.
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:12.960
Sometimes medications, you know, will help a little bit because they're cutting down on how hyper-dysregulated you feel, but the content will not shift usually because of the medications.
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.159
But they might sedate you basically.
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.119
Okay.
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:17.840
Okay.
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:19.920
How about hallucinations?
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:33.280
And uh the the so I I used to do this only when I was high, but then sometimes when I wasn't, turn the shower head on, I would hear Billy Joel all of a sudden, you know, coming through.
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:44.159
Or I would hear I would be here in my my windows closed, somebody's walking, I don't know, a mile away, I could hear them talking in my ear.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:44.800
Right.
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:53.119
Is that specifically or officially hallucinations and the medic would the medicine help with that?
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.480
Like antipsychotics.
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:55.280
Hallucinations.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:57.760
Antipsychotics do help with hallucinations for sure.
00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:58.320
Okay.
00:44:58.480 --> 00:44:58.639
Okay.
00:44:58.880 --> 00:44:59.119
Yeah.
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:08.320
And so like depending upon who you're seeing, what kind of provider you're seeing, they might temporarily give you an antipsychotic.
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:12.480
They'll give you like a week's worth of like a zyprexa or something like that.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:14.800
As an as an example, I'm not saying that's what you should take.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:15.920
It's just an example.
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:17.840
So it'll sue me or whatever.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:31.599
But uh like in some cases, they'll give you a very short-term antipsychotic while the hallucinations dissipate, especially if the hallucinations are really impairing your ability to like sleep or or whatever, you know?
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:32.320
Yeah.
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:34.480
I mean, we all know about the shadow people.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:39.920
We've all, you know, dealt with the shadow people and the voices and all of that kind of thing.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:52.079
Uh you know, I had a the only near-death experience I've ever had was with um someone in he was psychotic, he had schizophrenia.
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.960
And we we got hi high together and it triggered him.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:46:04.000
And he turned into uh he I guess I I don't know if it was whatever, I don't want to diagnose it, but he turned into a different person.
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:12.639
Breath, voice, everything about his face, he had a different name and he, yeah.
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.639
I don't want to go into the the details, I don't want to trigger anybody because it was really bad.
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:17.760
But I almost died.
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:19.679
I was really close to dying.
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:25.760
Um that was schizophrenia or something deeper for sure.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:26.320
Yeah.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:31.119
Um, you know, um I don't know whatever happened to him.
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:38.639
But you know, those kinds of experiences also linger with a lot of guys that I'm talking about.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:50.719
So some guys go straight into paranoia once they inject or smoke, and they get made fun of or pushed out of the house onto the street.
00:46:51.199 --> 00:47:01.679
Um, they get, you know, they get uh there's violence kind of they're they're violent treated violently because they're buzz, they're a buzzkill now.
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:08.000
You know, they're you know, and so those those type of experiences while you're high are traumatic.
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:08.639
Yeah.
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.199
Um, and so what I I know you can't tell, you know, I mean, uh the answer is see a therapist.
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:24.559
Um, but are there any any advice you could give us if we're still kind of dealing with that and it's affecting us now in our sober life?
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:38.239
Well, if if people have like real trauma of some kind, um, and you need help, please definitely see someone if you can.
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:46.480
Um I guess I think there are a couple of alternatives to therapy.
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:49.119
So there are different types of self-help groups.
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:54.880
So, you know, out here in LA, CMA is fairly popular, Crystal Meth Anonymous.
00:47:55.119 --> 00:48:17.440
And, you know, there's a lot of really good support there for a lot of people because a lot of people have experienced the things you're talking about, and um, whatever feelings you might have about AA and related things, it's a lot of the same community, it's a lot of people who get it, it's a lot of people who've been through very traumatic and tragic things together, and so they will understand you.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.320
And sometimes just being with someone else who understands you can help you feel safer.
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:34.960
Um, and you know, even if you don't actually join like a CMA or something, you might find somebody at a meeting that it can at least be your friend and help you walk through this so you don't feel alone.
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:38.559
Because to me, the worst thing is trying to deal with anything alone.
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:45.760
Yeah, you know, we are we're mammals, and mammals are a social species, which means we're we're designed to feel good together.
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.760
We're also designed to feel bad together.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.079
We're not designed to be miserable by ourselves.
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:54.960
This really isolated world we live in is not good for anyone's sanity.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:02.800
So I hope that you find some kind of support, some group of people, or even just a couple of people, if you can.
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.039
And if it's professional, that's great.
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:08.320
And if it's just self-help, that's also great, in my opinion.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:18.239
You know, so I I hope that if you are struggling with trauma, you try to walk through it with people who have your back and understand you to the best of their ability.
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:18.960
Yeah.
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:20.480
Yeah.
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:21.039
Yeah.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:22.480
Yeah.
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:43.119
You know, I'm not the I I try to be because I I just have such a a soft spot for these guys, but when they call me in this state, you know, I really try to be the best uh support that I can in terms of just giving them this space to allow them to be what they are and to feel what they feel.
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:48.559
Um it's it it it's it's just heartbreaking.
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:50.000
It's heartbreaking.
00:49:51.039 --> 00:50:03.920
Um do you see a difference and and I won't keep you too much longer, but uh uh so there's uh the broader umbrella of sexualized drug use, and then there's chem chem sex, men who have sex with men.
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:19.679
Do you do you see any differences in the way the psychosis shows up in maybe uh and in in the heterosexual uh demographic um and and I wonder why if there's a difference?
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.159
No, that's a good question.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:27.039
You know, I've I've worked with a lot of hetero folks who use a lot of meth.
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:33.360
And uh, you know, I think the paranoia seems to be relatively similar.
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:47.360
Um you know, uh my very first job at the ripe old age of 19, all these years ago, was working in a drug rehab that no longer exists, unfortunately, in Missouri, where I'm from, called Daybreak.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:56.960
Daybreak used to be this like state-funded program where basically you either went there or you went to jail, basically.
00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:57.760
Yeah.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:16.559
And so at the time, we actually had a lot of bikers because back in when I was a younger person, Missouri was the meth capital of the world, number one producers and distributors, because we had all the bikers that could, you know, go live in the woods and distribute, you know, main highway through all parts of the country, basically.
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:18.960
Right, Hills Angels or something.
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:20.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:26.239
And so I dealt with a lot of them, and you know, their paranoia was pretty much exactly the same.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:34.320
They always thought that regular people were out to get them, they had an uh a suspiciousness that wasn't earned, all these kinds of things.
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:44.880
Um and so I don't know that maybe obviously the sex is different, but the uh but even a lot of the sexual behavior was the same.
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:54.559
There's a lot of group sex that they wouldn't normally be having if they were sober, doing a lot of out-of-control things they wouldn't normally be doing when they were sober.
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:55.679
I don't know.
00:51:55.760 --> 00:52:02.880
I mean, there's some similarities, but there are also some differences in terms of like, you know, types of sexual behaviors and types of paranoia.
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:16.880
But a lot of the paranoia seem very similar, like suspicious of the cashier, you know, hearing voices, you know, in the other room, all these things, you know, shadow people, um all seem very similar.
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:26.960
And you know, across my career, it's you know, all the heterophobes I've dealt with also seems pretty similar in many ways, just maybe different settings or different, obviously very different sexual norms.
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:27.840
Right.
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:28.559
Right.
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:29.119
Okay.
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:30.639
I was curious about that.
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:39.199
Um yeah, so kind of wrapping up if you're listening, is g show yourself some compassion.
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:41.519
Please.
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.880
And understand that you're not broken.
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:48.960
Okay.
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.199
I just I'm just getting emotional.
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.679
I'm like, this must be my crying season.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:55.920
I'm like crying on all these episodes.
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:57.199
I don't know what's going on.
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:10.559
This is just uh this is near and dear to me because of my past experiences too, but um just seeing people in in their sober state or being trapped.
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:20.079
It's you know, there's a difference between there's a difference between the men who know they're uh having a paranoid delusion and those that are just trapped inside it.
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:20.960
Yeah.
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:22.960
And just don't know it.
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:23.679
Yeah.
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.000
Yeah.
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:25.760
Yeah, it's hard.
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.440
Yeah.
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.639
Um but go back and listen to everything that that Dr.
00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:36.320
Lockwood said today and really take notes.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:40.239
Um, as you know, we send out a study guide with every episode.
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:41.519
Pay attention to that.
00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:43.119
The link will be in the show notes.
00:53:43.280 --> 00:54:02.880
Um, this is very, very helpful information, and I think it's going to help you just calm, calm down a bit about you know, the the fears that you have, but also manage them in a way that's that brings peace to your life and just a little more peace every day.
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:07.599
Patrick, is there anything I didn't ask today?
00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:12.000
Is there anything I left out that you felt like would have been important for us to mention?
00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:21.760
I think I'd love to have a bigger conversation with you about the the broader spectrum of chemsex at some point, but I don't think that that's on topic today.
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:23.280
I would love that too.
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:29.440
Uh when we spoke before, you were talking about three types of chemsex users.
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:30.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:32.000
I want to have that conversation.
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:32.400
Yeah.
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:34.079
I want to dig into that.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:38.239
Um yeah, uh this this topic I I really wanted to get to.
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:39.280
I want to get to that.
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:43.039
Uh if you if you don't mind, I would love to do another episode with you.
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:47.199
I think you're going to be very popul you're going to be extremely popular on this podcast.
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:48.800
I can tell you that.
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.519
Um I I feel like this.
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:53.599
Yeah.
00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:57.519
I feel like this is going to set a lot of men free around the world.
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:01.039
You know, only half only half of my listeners are in the US.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:02.320
The other half.
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.480
Yeah, the other half are uh all around the world, all around the country, all around the globe.
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.079
Um and um we're all unified.
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:16.400
Doesn't matter where you are, we're all unified by this same behavior and the same character, the same struggles.
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:18.880
Um, and paranoia paranoia is one of them.
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.559
So um I hope that this does set you free if you're listening.
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.320
And um appreciate you being here.
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:25.760
And thank you, um, Dr.
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:33.440
Patrick Lockwood for sharing your your vast, extremely well-articulated knowledge here.
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:35.360
I really, really greatly appreciate it.
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.280
You've taught me a ton today, so thank you.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:40.400
Glad to hear that.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:41.199
Thanks for having me.
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:42.000
Appreciate it.
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:42.880
Of course.
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:47.199
All right, guys, stay tuned, and we will see you next week.