The Friendships That Last (Part 1): Eric Dwyer on Grief, Adaptability, and Love After Loss | Ft. Eric Dwyer & Ashley Negron

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Welcome back to the show. I've got two of my
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past guests here. Before you may recognize, this
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is my co -host Ashley and this is Eric Dwyer,
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who's been on the show previously. We were hanging
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out this weekend. We thought, what better yet
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than to let you eavesdrop on a conversation.
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Who knows where it'll go, but we don't. We love
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each other and we love to talk. So let's get
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into it. Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast.
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I'm Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing
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lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your
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thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you
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to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in.
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Now, we've all been friends for... a very long
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time, over two decades at this point. We all
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went to college together, and that, as much as
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I don't want to admit it, has been a little longer
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than I want to admit. And so in that, we've seen
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a lot of different seasons in our relationships,
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in times where we were single people to where
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we weren't single, even though Eric still was.
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And then into marriages, careers, all those things.
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And now into new seasons with transition and
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loss. And we've talked to both before on the
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show about many times about optimizing relationships.
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And a part of that is going to be different seasons.
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I mean, nope. And so I had a rabbit hole I almost
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dove in. And I was like, no, no. I'll save that
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for later. Are you talking about the perimenopause
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season? No, no. I'm absolutely not going to say
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that. Totally different person right now. I think
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the algorithm is picking up on it because it
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had one the other day. I think I said it to you,
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but it was a husband. eating a bowl of cereal
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in like a ceramic bowl. And so the spoon was
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like, and he's like, how do you know your wife
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is in perimenopause? And it was like, there will
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be signs. And she was like, if you don't stop
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scraping against that bowl, I'm gonna come in
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there. Yep, that's it. There have been some times
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that I'm like, keep your mouth shut. This is
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a you problem. The way that you say this is going
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to be so unkind and rude. Shut your mouth. Listen,
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I think the world would be a lot better place
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if everybody had a filter that went, this is
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a me problem and it does not need to be spoken
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about. It's real. I've always had the mouth sound
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where it's like nails on a chalkboard thing.
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But for me, at this stage of my life, it's like,
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okay, can I, can I move into another room? Can
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I turn something on? You know, is there something
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that I can do to make this me problem, not a
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them problem? Cause usually at that point you're
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fury in those, you know, if it's your pet peeve
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or whatever, it's going to, you're going to be
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from zero to 1000 in, in 0 .3 seconds. And you're
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like, You can have some like pretend conversations
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in your head of telling them and you're like,
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none of them are kind. So there was one night
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laying in bed, we were praying and you would
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not stop moving your legs. And I thought he doesn't
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stop. There is no kind of way. I cannot connect
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with the Lord right now. There is no kind of
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way that this is going to come out of my mouth.
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So I'm going to just keep my mouth shut. But
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it was like, I'm going to kill him. Could you
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tell? I had not known. I love it. Okay, on to
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a new rabbit hole. Seasons, right? Getting old.
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New fun seasons. That's right. We've seen seasons
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with me becoming a parent. When Sarah and I,
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our families adapt, we add, we subtract as units.
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Which was pretty unorthodox. I mean, well, in
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the context of being foster parents, like we
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would visit you guys every six to 12 months,
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depending. And it's not typical for a family
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to have a different child, you know? And so that
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was definitely... It was almost like adaptability
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was built into it for a long time. Yes, it was.
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Yeah. Well, and then even like what we would
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do when we would come hang out. Like I think,
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you know, like some years it was like, okay,
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we are all going to go and we're going to go
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float the river. Right. And we're going to go
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do whatever. And then some years it was like,
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okay, Sarah wasn't healthy enough to do that.
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Or it was way too much rain or, you know, like
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for a myriad of reasons, but we've just had to
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adapt what it is that. It's not like, oh, this
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is the tradition. No, the tradition is we're
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just hanging out, spending time together. We
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can't canoe, so we can't hang out. Right. It's
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that adaptability that I feel like has been just
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baked into our friendship. I think that starts
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as college kids because you have to be super
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adaptable and flexible. Your life is changing
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literally every... Six months because you're
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moving in and out of the dorm like, you know,
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like in that way. So here's an interesting question
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that I'm just going to add to the group. You're
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right. At college, everybody's kind of starting
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fresh. And so you have this flexibility built
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in. But then once you leave, a lot of those,
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the very thing that makes some relationships
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stay strong loses some. You know, people that
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you're like, dude, we were like best friends
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and I haven't talked to you in years. Yeah. Like
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I've had friends that I lived with that. haven't
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reached out to me over anything from the adoption
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to, and I don't fault them for that. It's just
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a, you know, they've lived their life and I'm
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sure they're probably praying for me and I them,
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and I see them on like Facebook every once in
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a while, but it's really just that. So why do
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some lean into flexibility and continue to grow
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stronger? Whereas some that had the same starting
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flexibility point, just don't get to that point.
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I don't know the answer to that. It's almost
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like you, you gotta. pick who to be flexible
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with you can't be too flexible with so many different
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people right gotta dial in on it yeah i don't
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know it's seasons of life can change with that
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too right like you know i think people's flexibility
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gets less as they have kids and the more that
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you add the less flexible that you become yeah
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whereas you know for josh and i it's like we
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kind of have quote -unquote ultimate flexibility
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with not having any kiddos but that also means
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that you have to be intentional right and you
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have to plan it and you have to you have to be
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okay being the one texting and saying hey we
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want to come see you when can i come right right
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or like because it's so easy i think we get busy
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and distracted and like we even spent time with
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some friends a few weeks ago that i was like
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we haven't hung out in like two years how is
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that possible right right like because Life just
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keeps getting busier and faster and I don't know
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where time is going. Time goes faster. I think
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unless you're intentional and you listen to those
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prompts of like, hey, I need to text this person
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or hey, I need to reach out to this person. I
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think we're given those moments and we have to
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be willing to do them. I think distance probably
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also is a factor. Things are flexible, but the
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more distance there is, the less. flexibility
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there's because you have to be more intentional
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about planning to go see people on the other
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side of the country and so since we've only ever
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been about three hours away from each other it's
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a little easier to do weekends like this one
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right well and that's the that's the cost right
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like we there's two things i thought about when
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you guys were talking the first one is that intentionality
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piece like we we chose to make a tradition to
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come down at least every memorial day uh sometimes
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even labor day right so it was like depending
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on the the seasons or whatnot and and the need
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but there was this this this commitment to to
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come down and spend time with you guys right
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and it sounds weird to say but like it's like
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we could have been doing other things or seeing
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seeing other people the second thing and i don't
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know if i'm making that point well enough but
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the the the second one i thought of was To a
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certain extent, having a bunch of relationships
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that you have a lot of depth with is pretty rare
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and not normal. You know what I mean? Like it's
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either the social butterfly who doesn't have
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hardly any deep relationships, but everyone's
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an acquaintance. But your typical scenario is,
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you know, you're the person, you become the person
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of the five people you surround yourself with,
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right? I don't think you can go very deep with,
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with more than five to 10 people. And so I think
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because of that, people have to kind of choose,
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you know, at college, you're kind of like, you're
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in a dorm, you're in a dorm. Yeah. They're all
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stacked on top of each other. You can pick five
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per floor. Yeah. Five a week, you know? Yeah.
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And, and there is, there is something like you're
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in a unique scenario where you're in a lot of
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close, close proximity to a lot of people. Yeah.
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But once you leave that college. experience than
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you know whether it's a dorm or a frat house
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or something or even if you have four roommates
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you know but at that point when you get married
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and you guys have your own lives and you kind
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of go parallel if you don't have that intentionality
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i can mention in the first point you pretty much
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have to choose those five to ten relationships
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that you're going to be intentional with and
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then that so i think that also plays into falling
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falling out Falling out of touch, not falling
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out in like a conflict way, but falling out of
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touch with some is what it made me think about
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when you guys were talking. And phones go two
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ways. Facebook posts go two ways. I want to reach
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out to them, but I think, oh man, it's been so
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long. Would it be weird? And then they're probably
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thinking the exact same thing. I don't want to
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reach out, but I haven't reached out to them
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in so long. Would it be weird? And that's an
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important point that she made in the commitment
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to listening to the small prompts. All right,
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I can't count. the many times that I've thought
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of someone inexplicably and then messaged them
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and I happened to catch them, you know, I don't
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believe that's a coincidence. I don't think,
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I don't think, I don't think any person of faith
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does either. And so we made a commitment about
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eight years ago that we were going to, we were
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going to act on as many small prompts that we,
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that we were aware of. And, and I, I don't think
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I've ever regretted. those, those prompts. I
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haven't either. There, there are some that I
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don't understand. And I'm like, that's a bit
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awkward, but, but, but so some of those are out
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there and maybe a year or two later, I get it,
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but I still got about six or seven that are up
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in the air. And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe
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I'll find out why. Maybe I won't. Yeah. Yeah.
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And it, it, it plays into not being, not being
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prideful in the relationship or not keeping score.
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Right. Cause, cause you mentioned, you know,
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phones go both ways. And Ashley said it this
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way in that regardless of if you've been asked,
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it doesn't matter. You ask. Yeah. I don't think,
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I don't think anyone's ever going to be mad at
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you for you letting them know that you want to
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hang out with them. Even if the answer is no,
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I'm so sorry. We can't make it. Sure. You know,
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so you have to kind of like, remember control
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what you can control, which is you asking. And
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their answer has everything to do with them.
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Yep. You know, people are like, well, I'm only,
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this is like, I asked five times in a row. Okay.
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I mean. So maybe it's seven. Yeah. Yeah. And
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that's, I'm not saying that that's, that's always
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easy because sometimes, sometimes it does feel
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one -sided and you're like, gosh, like. Like
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I want to be, I want to be wanted. Like I want,
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I want you to want to hang out with me. Right.
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Right. Right. But also in learning like. Even
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just, I had a conversation with my sister a few
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weeks ago and she said something. I was like,
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we need to hang out, whatever. And she's like,
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well, you know you can just ask me, right? And
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I'm like, I know, but you're busy and I don't
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want to be intrusive or whatever. And she's like,
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just ask. She goes, it's not one of my strong
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suits. She's like, I'm not, not that I don't
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want to hang out. She's like, I just don't think
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to ask to hang out. She's like, text me, ask,
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invite yourself over. put yourself in that position
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right and initially i was like a little frustrated
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then i'm like okay fine i will right and since
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then we've hung out a couple of times because
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i'm like hey what are you up to like i'm fine
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i will just insert myself she gave you that permission
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yeah she gave that permission and then the goal
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is to hang out with this person establish a connection
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then you achieve that goal correct and i love
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her admission of it not being her strong suit
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like i had one of my greatest friends the best
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man at my wedding shout out you know how you
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are He he said he was very honest from the beginning.
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.840
He's like, hey, I'm a military kid. I. When I
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.840
when it's out of sight, out of mind, if I don't
00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.980
see you, I won't think of you. It's not personal.
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.179
It doesn't mean that we didn't have something
00:13:24.179 --> 00:13:27.440
awesome or that we still do. You know what I
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.899
mean? And like and. I've always kept that in
00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.840
my mind. And then anytime we reconnect, I, I
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.659
remember that. You pick up right where you left
00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:37.679
off. Yeah. Yeah. I've got friendships like that
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.039
too. Like it doesn't matter the distance or time
00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.399
you see them. And you're like, this is, this
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.500
is like, we were, we're still back when we first
00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:47.940
met. Not we've matured and grown. Right. You
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:50.340
know, not like suddenly I've. But it's not this
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.080
weird, awkward, like dance to get back into.
00:13:53.299 --> 00:13:55.580
Yes. Right. It's, there's something different
00:13:55.580 --> 00:14:00.899
to, I. Sometimes I hate going to things with
00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:04.279
people that I grew up with or even sometimes
00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.279
college reunion -y kinds of things because everybody's
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.299
like, oh my gosh, how are you? What are you up
00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:11.580
to, right? It's like, I didn't really hang out
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:14.820
or spend time with you then. So I have a hard
00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:19.240
time being overly real and invested in that conversation
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:23.679
because I'm like, we don't have a lot of common
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.659
ground or this depth of... It was only ever surface
00:14:27.659 --> 00:14:29.860
level. Yeah. There's no depth of history. Whereas
00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:34.460
like, you know, there are on a handful of friends
00:14:34.460 --> 00:14:37.539
that I could reconnect with and immediately it
00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:39.740
would be back to this. Like it wouldn't take
00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:42.879
seven seconds to catch back up. Right. Like,
00:14:42.980 --> 00:14:45.179
yes, there may have been times that like we were
00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:48.639
only physically hanging out, you know, two to
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:50.840
three times a year, but it was like, we never
00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.759
skipped a beat ever. Or it was like, you know,
00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.720
we were texting enough to keep that friendship
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:04.519
always moving in those things. And so, yeah.
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.379
I've had a friend that, I mean, I'm friends with
00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:11.159
him on Facebook. I met him at a wedding. And
00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.679
I only hung out with him at that wedding. But
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.480
he and I were like... best friends at that wedding
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.679
to the point where our wives were like I don't
00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.059
know what's going on with our husbands they're
00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:24.259
like bromancing hard right it was amazing and
00:15:24.259 --> 00:15:26.399
I look back at that and I'm like I had the best
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.539
time with that dude in that moment and I have
00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:33.019
not been in a room with them ever since because
00:15:33.019 --> 00:15:35.100
you know we came back to my home the people the
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:36.740
people whose wedding we were there for we they
00:15:36.740 --> 00:15:39.740
were mutual friends and we just like locked like
00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:44.629
locked in for two hours and then I was like ready
00:15:44.629 --> 00:15:46.529
to like plan a vacation with this dude. And then
00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:49.049
it's like, that was fun. And I look back at that
00:15:49.049 --> 00:15:51.929
and I go, that was so weird how I connected so
00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:54.889
deeply, but it only, it only lasted a short amount
00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:57.450
of time. I still, I still like wish him a happy
00:15:57.450 --> 00:15:59.330
birthday on Facebook, but that's, that's all
00:15:59.330 --> 00:16:02.169
that ever was, but it's still special. Yeah.
00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:08.190
Yeah. Yeah. I getting, getting into the practical
00:16:08.190 --> 00:16:12.590
side of this, you know, obviously this year,
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.919
you've gone through hardship. Right. And so I
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.039
think, I think Ashley mentioned it when we were
00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:20.559
talking about asking for like her feeling weird
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:22.980
about her asking and interrupting her sister's
00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:27.700
life. Right. And so, you know, especially you've
00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:29.299
been, you've been in this community for almost
00:16:29.299 --> 00:16:31.940
20 years. There's a tremendous amount of people
00:16:31.940 --> 00:16:35.039
who care a lot for you, but when someone's going
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.379
through something tragic, like losing a loved
00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.500
one, they, you know, people, people, their hearts
00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:42.159
go out to that person and they're like, okay,
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.360
I, I want him to know I'm thinking about him,
00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:50.259
praying for him, whatever. They also, I feel
00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:53.820
like to a certain extent, hesitation gets built
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:55.799
into that because they're like, well, I want
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.299
to reach out, but I don't know what to say. I
00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:01.000
know people say stupid stuff because when I went
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.480
through something hard, someone said something
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.460
dumb to me and I didn't like that. So I don't
00:17:04.460 --> 00:17:07.480
want to be that way to Eric. So how has it been
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:09.319
for you? I mean, obviously you're on the other
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.470
end of this. You know, what words of encouragement
00:17:13.470 --> 00:17:17.630
would you say to people who they want to reach
00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:20.569
out, love on you, or someone in an area that
00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:23.369
went through something similar? So you said something
00:17:23.369 --> 00:17:27.289
that I never really quite put words to, but it's
00:17:27.289 --> 00:17:29.089
been something that I've been intentional about.
00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:31.769
Some people don't want to say stupid things,
00:17:31.950 --> 00:17:34.349
right? Like, oh man, me and my stupid mouth.
00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:37.769
Well, I try not to have stupid ears. Some of
00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:40.349
that is on the receiver as well. If the person
00:17:40.349 --> 00:17:43.769
says something, take it for what it is. They're
00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:46.230
reaching out. We had a flood of people, got cards,
00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:49.369
people that I don't even know that were sending
00:17:49.369 --> 00:17:51.930
us things, and I didn't go, you don't know anything,
00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:54.829
or you don't, you didn't know. You just go, this
00:17:54.829 --> 00:17:57.930
is awesome. You throw it on the pile of things
00:17:57.930 --> 00:18:01.009
that were somebody saying that they loved you.
00:18:01.549 --> 00:18:05.380
So, yes. We try to pretend like we don't have
00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:07.240
stupid thoughts that we say to ourselves in these
00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.299
difficult times. So it's like my job is to make
00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:14.380
sure that I'm not thinking things that aren't
00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:17.119
helpful and not hearing things that other people
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:22.180
aren't saying. And then if I'm not going to listen,
00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:23.960
it's the old adage, if I'm not going to listen
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.319
to somebody's advice, why would I listen to their
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.460
criticisms? And so it's like some people say
00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:32.900
something, I'm like, it's a bit odd. But at least
00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:35.180
it was something that was said. They could have
00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:37.640
said nothing. Well, it's one of the things we've
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:39.519
talked about before on the podcast of assuming
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.079
positive intent. Yeah. You know where their heart
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.940
is at. Yeah. You know they've worked up the courage
00:18:46.940 --> 00:18:49.519
to even say something to you. Sure, sure. Right?
00:18:49.539 --> 00:18:52.200
And yeah, it doesn't come out maybe the way that
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.130
they intended or it... it fell flat or whatever,
00:18:56.309 --> 00:18:58.529
but you're right. It's that, Hey, I love you
00:18:58.529 --> 00:19:00.569
enough to say something, or I'm thinking about
00:19:00.569 --> 00:19:03.690
you, or I've been praying for you or, Hey, I
00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:08.809
went through something similar, right? Like it's
00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:11.450
their way of trying to even connect. Correct.
00:19:11.569 --> 00:19:14.950
And I would say I didn't experience anybody say
00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:18.789
anything that was hurtful or it was just encouraging.
00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:20.450
And it was encouraging from their perspective,
00:19:20.470 --> 00:19:24.769
from what they knew of loss. they said things
00:19:24.769 --> 00:19:27.509
that i don't know i i wasn't like i never got
00:19:27.509 --> 00:19:29.730
a letter and was like what is this or was never
00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:31.849
offended by anybody in the moment or whatever
00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:34.730
it's like i don't know it may have been oh surprising
00:19:34.730 --> 00:19:37.349
maybe maybe a little bit shocking like oh i wasn't
00:19:37.349 --> 00:19:39.750
i wasn't expecting that but it didn't didn't
00:19:39.750 --> 00:19:42.170
mean it wasn't helpful in the moment i just kind
00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:45.250
of think it's beautiful still i wonder this is
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:47.569
a super random thought yeah i wonder if some
00:19:47.569 --> 00:19:53.480
of that difference maybe Part of it is your listening
00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:57.480
ears, right? But Sarah had had a long battle
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.140
and a long journey. And so I wonder if it's different
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:05.500
that versus like someone who loses somebody unexpectedly,
00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:10.430
tragically. You know, it's that whole like, well,
00:20:10.549 --> 00:20:12.809
at least they didn't suffer or, you know, or
00:20:12.809 --> 00:20:16.089
at least, you know, whatever. Anything that begins
00:20:16.089 --> 00:20:20.230
with at least. Don't even start it. But I just
00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:23.089
I have to wonder if maybe that was some of it
00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:26.970
is like people had watched your journey and watched
00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:30.829
the way in which that she suffered well and that
00:20:30.829 --> 00:20:39.519
you took care of her well. people in a in a way
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:43.660
like to to know like if that's ever my turn like
00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:46.539
i want to do that in that same way like i want
00:20:46.539 --> 00:20:49.980
to suffer well and i want to care well there's
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.940
a strong inspirational component yeah so i wonder
00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:56.240
if some of that i don't know that's a super reason
00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.900
motivation to reach out there i also we talk
00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:03.259
about the person going through the grief receiving
00:21:03.259 --> 00:21:07.000
other people's bad or like words that they're
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.420
like, what did I say that for? I feel so dumb.
00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:12.279
But sometimes the person grieving says things
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.480
that don't make sense to the other people. Like
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.559
I met up with somebody, this was about a month
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.660
after Sarah passed. And because again, back because
00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:23.539
this has been years long, they've been praying
00:21:23.539 --> 00:21:26.420
for all this, but they hadn't gotten the news
00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:27.779
yet just because they weren't on Facebook during
00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.660
like this year passing January. So they were
00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:31.680
like, for holidays, I'm just gonna dial in on
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.119
family, right? And so then I see them and they're
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:35.740
like. Tell Sarah. And I was like, dude, she's
00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:37.980
all better. And they're like, that's awesome.
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:41.619
And I was like, oh, it's like, you don't, you
00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:43.339
don't know what I mean. I mean, like she's resurrected.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:44.680
She's with the Lord now. And they were like,
00:21:44.779 --> 00:21:47.519
oh my gosh. I was like, I was like, I'm the one
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.299
saying the dumb thing. So I was like, she's,
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:55.279
she's great. You know, we're happy for her. She's
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:58.660
free. They're like, man, what do you know? Miracle
00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:01.839
cures. I was like, oh, wait a minute. We're in
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:04.380
different libraries. We're in the same thing.
00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:07.119
And I felt bad because I was like, I'm so sorry.
00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:09.160
I didn't mean to put you in that position. Because
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.880
they were trying to say something to me. So I
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:13.859
don't know. We just got to give each other some
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:17.779
grace. I forgot about that until you said. Because
00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:20.019
she'd been like one of the people that was praying
00:22:20.019 --> 00:22:22.180
for us. And I thought I was saying something
00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:25.319
like encouraging. Isn't Jesus so amazing? And
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.480
she was like, her eyes got really big. And I
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.589
thought. I don't know. I think I may have caused
00:22:30.589 --> 00:22:38.210
confusion. It was a big... No! There's other
00:22:38.210 --> 00:22:40.269
people behind the counter who are just listening
00:22:40.269 --> 00:22:42.650
to this and they're like, oh my goodness. One
00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:50.230
of our dearest friends, she's very aware of embarrassment.
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.539
Even secondhand embarrassment. And I only mention
00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:57.799
this because she has a phrase when she gets embarrassed
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:01.680
enough. Her wish is to turn into bats. And fly
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.960
away. I was very batty in that moment. We even
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:07.859
have this thing among our friends that everybody
00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:11.559
goes, and bats. And out. And we're out. I think
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:13.220
there's just a lot of different, all the different
00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:15.779
emotions that you try to get to the root of all
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:18.910
these emotions is care. And I think our... our
00:23:18.910 --> 00:23:21.009
friendship has been able to go through all of
00:23:21.009 --> 00:23:25.049
these things together because how does your friendship
00:23:25.049 --> 00:23:30.450
adapt after a stage of this into a new season?
00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:32.670
And I think part of it is you grieved with us
00:23:32.670 --> 00:23:37.130
all along the way, from diagnosis to custody
00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:39.930
battle to all of these things. Because of the
00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:42.509
proximity and the flexibility that we had in
00:23:42.509 --> 00:23:46.349
our friendship, you were with us every step,
00:23:46.369 --> 00:23:48.740
so you just went one step further. Right. Whereas
00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:51.220
some people may not have heard, but heard the
00:23:51.220 --> 00:23:52.660
news and they're like, we're so sorry. And they're
00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:55.099
trying to go from here to here. Whereas you guys
00:23:55.099 --> 00:23:58.240
were in the room like the whole time, you know,
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:02.940
there's a lot of, there's a lot of value in for
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.000
what I, what I hear you say there is like, there's
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.660
a lot of value in relationships that have a lot
00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:13.680
of common understanding. There's, it's like the
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.019
picture worth a thousand words, right? Like when
00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:18.680
the understanding is so deep, that words aren't
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:24.339
needed in a certain context yeah that's well
00:24:24.339 --> 00:24:27.740
and i wonder too like you know we always made
00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:33.000
a point to like to just be present and to let
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.079
sarah bring it up if that's the conversation
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.319
she wanted to have right like i might ask you
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:44.420
later right like hey where where are we actually
00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:48.180
at like what's you know Let's be a hundred percent
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:51.079
real in this moment. But I would let Sarah guide
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.200
that conversation because I knew her deepest
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.839
desire was to not feel like the patient and to
00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.579
not be treated with like weird kid gloves. It
00:25:00.579 --> 00:25:04.700
only just made her angry. And so like, just to
00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:09.440
be, yeah, to just be present, to not let it be
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.319
different. Like we did the same things or as
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:14.180
much as we could, the same things that we had
00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:17.140
been doing. For the last 20 years. And somehow
00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:20.420
she still won the board games. She would. She'd
00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:24.079
kick our butt. But I never won anyway. You know.
00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:29.759
So is that, do you think, I mean, you've been
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.599
a minister a long time. And so you've also helped
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.220
other people through grief. And so my specific
00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:40.279
question that I'm wondering about here is, because
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.559
I think about Sarah and how she didn't want.
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:47.680
She, she valued normal interactions that weren't
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.859
about, you know, Hey, Hey, how's the cancer?
00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:52.599
You know? Yeah. And we, and I think of another
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.039
relationship that we have of, of a dear friend
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.579
of ours who lost her daughter and she, she changed
00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:03.259
churches, not because she changed churches because
00:26:03.259 --> 00:26:06.279
there was so much of like, Oh my gosh, how are
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.680
you doing? And she's like, when one person asks
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:13.119
you that, you feel seen, valued, heard, whatever.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.720
When 400 people ask you that every week, she's
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:23.460
like, I got to get out of here. And so how do
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:27.059
you see that from being on both sides? So I think,
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.240
honestly, I don't see it as, so if one person
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.900
asks how I'm doing, and it's like, I feel seen.
00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:36.940
Then I feel seen times 400 if it's 400 people
00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:40.559
asking I don't I don't like but and everybody's
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.019
different they may not want that But I just go
00:26:44.019 --> 00:26:46.599
man think of the people that still care like
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:50.440
if if somebody asks in two months Hey, how are
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.940
you doing? That means it's still we're still
00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:55.839
on their mind It's not because anybody's trying
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.480
to I'm not trying to just bury it all and get
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:00.920
past it But there are there are things about
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.000
grief, especially when something like this happens
00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.579
that come out in three months and five months
00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:09.059
and six months yeah you know like last month
00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:11.940
we got a bill from the hospital i say we it's
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:13.740
me and cadence but like the bill came to our
00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:16.339
household and it was like every once in a while
00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:20.019
some crummy stuff comes out in five months so
00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:22.720
the more people say how are you doing how are
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.720
you doing how are you doing i've just i've and
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.900
assume good intentions that they're asking because
00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:31.680
they care. And I'm like, man, I got a lot of
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:36.859
people who care. So just my style, I guess, is
00:27:36.859 --> 00:27:40.359
to not see that as a negative, but as just more
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:43.519
wind behind the sails that people are caring
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:46.380
and people are pushing forward. And I know that
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.200
there are people that aren't asking me, but they
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.000
are asking. other people around me. They're asking
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.539
your sphere. Yes. What I'm really hoping is they're
00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:55.480
not asking my daughter, you know, that they're
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.700
not like, how's your dad? Because that's not
00:27:57.700 --> 00:28:01.099
her main concern. I don't want her to be burdened
00:28:01.099 --> 00:28:03.880
by that now. And neither did her mom. Her mom
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.960
was very adamant about do not ask my daughter
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.559
how I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and I would
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:12.480
still like that for her because I want her to
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.609
now, if somebody If she wants to say something,
00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.690
that's fine. But I do the care with my counseling,
00:28:19.910 --> 00:28:21.609
with my friendships, with my faith community,
00:28:21.809 --> 00:28:24.650
and my relationship with the Lord so that my
00:28:24.650 --> 00:28:26.690
daughter, who I'm sure still, no matter what,
00:28:26.789 --> 00:28:28.410
is going to be worried about me because she loves
00:28:28.410 --> 00:28:32.750
me. I don't want her to be like, oh no, what
00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:35.630
are other people noticing if they're asking me?
00:28:35.890 --> 00:28:38.150
But I do know that other people are like, yeah,
00:28:38.170 --> 00:28:39.549
someone's always asked about you. I'm like, awesome.
00:28:40.289 --> 00:28:42.970
They just felt like it was safe to ask the person
00:28:42.970 --> 00:28:47.430
they knew better than you. And I just kind of
00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:51.509
say, I don't know, it always makes me feel encouraged.
00:28:52.569 --> 00:28:56.829
Because again, there's always something in a
00:28:56.829 --> 00:29:01.009
month or so that's going to be... We have memories
00:29:01.009 --> 00:29:04.470
in August. When I'm on Facebook and memories
00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:06.970
pop up from August or trips that we've taken,
00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:09.410
it's like... Like we go through this together
00:29:09.410 --> 00:29:11.210
because a lot of those are shared memories. And
00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:13.190
when they pop up, I'll be like, hey, today's
00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:15.329
the day that we kind of go through this together.
00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.250
So I think if things are going to be positive
00:29:18.250 --> 00:29:20.809
in the future of people asking how you're doing,
00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:24.029
that sort of balances out. It's a mix. It's always
00:29:24.029 --> 00:29:29.369
a mix. How has it been for, so I'll share for
00:29:29.369 --> 00:29:33.400
us, like we've realized that. we grieve differently
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:35.619
you know we lost we lost my mom a couple years
00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:39.559
ago uh and and that was that was the the closest
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:43.099
relationship that that we had suffered that with
00:29:43.099 --> 00:29:47.720
together and we realized okay and then uh this
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:52.799
year with with sarah and justin um we realized
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.960
that it took it took a little extra grace with
00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:00.240
each other recognizing that yes, we're both hurting
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.319
and we're both hurting about the same things,
00:30:02.420 --> 00:30:06.980
but it's manifesting differently. The timing
00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:11.220
is different. What reminds one of all that pain
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.799
and causes the emotions in that moment, the other
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.119
one could be pretty cold in the moment and then
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:25.299
vice versa. There were moments, especially earlier
00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:27.839
in this year, where it was like sometimes you
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.240
feel like that person, you feel more isolated
00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:33.180
than you want because you're like, gosh, we're
00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:35.660
sharing this. We're both going through the same
00:30:35.660 --> 00:30:40.019
thing. But why do I feel more alone than I should?
00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:43.359
I guess it's probably if I could condense it
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.359
into a sentence. So I had wondered, you know,
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:49.750
obviously you and her are going. you know do
00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:52.069
the same thing obviously same household yeah
00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:55.970
uh have is it been similar for you guys we have
00:30:55.970 --> 00:30:57.650
we have different grieving styles because we
00:30:57.650 --> 00:30:59.869
have different maturity levels i'm not my daughter
00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:02.890
is not in any way like a toddler you know she's
00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:05.130
12 years old but she and she's very mature for
00:31:05.130 --> 00:31:07.470
her age she's experienced a lot going through
00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:10.250
the foster care system she's seen a lot so but
00:31:10.250 --> 00:31:15.269
we are we are different And so we will be going
00:31:15.269 --> 00:31:17.630
through the grieving process differently. But
00:31:17.630 --> 00:31:19.849
we do have a phrase. We've made it abundantly
00:31:19.849 --> 00:31:23.089
clear. Everybody grieves differently. And if
00:31:23.089 --> 00:31:26.490
you want to, you know, she was wondering about
00:31:26.490 --> 00:31:30.190
the people that use happy memories. And I said,
00:31:30.210 --> 00:31:32.529
well, a lot of people have more happy memories
00:31:32.529 --> 00:31:36.329
to pull from because they've known your mom a
00:31:36.329 --> 00:31:40.339
whole life. Whereas... You have fewer. You've
00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:42.519
got good, happy memories, but you don't have
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:45.680
37 years of happy memories to pull from. And
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:47.319
they're like, oh, don't you remember this? Don't
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:50.900
you remember this? So they have more of a deep
00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:54.420
well to draw from. And so if you're grieving
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:56.160
differently, that's just you have a different
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.980
relationship with this person than anybody else.
00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.859
And you've lost a different future with this
00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.299
person than anybody else has. So you almost have
00:32:05.299 --> 00:32:08.019
to grieve differently. And whenever I said...
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.980
that basically made it okay to grieve differently,
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:14.099
then that connected us deeper. And the phrase
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:16.640
is just, I really miss mom a lot today. Yeah.
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.119
And that way the other person knows, you know,
00:32:20.140 --> 00:32:23.240
if I'm a little off or if I'm just like, you
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.359
know, in my room or if I'm, you know, if I just
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.319
want to hug or something like that, it's like,
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.839
I'm just missing her extra today. Because you
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:32.920
miss her every day, but you just miss her extra.
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:34.920
And it's like, okay, you just need some extra.
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:38.059
And I've got extra for you because this was the
00:32:38.059 --> 00:32:41.460
conversation I have with people now. As I say,
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:44.980
this is love that we used to give to a person
00:32:44.980 --> 00:32:47.640
that now we can give to each other. So if you
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.880
need extra love, you've got more of it. Now I'm
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:53.700
not going to love bomb you and smother you and
00:32:53.700 --> 00:32:57.039
like, you have to receive my love. But it's like,
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:58.519
you know, whenever it used to be three people
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.619
sharing love in a household and now it's two
00:33:00.619 --> 00:33:02.519
and one person says, I need extra love. You go,
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.519
well. Here's something that I used to give this
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.440
person that now I can give to you if you need.
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.059
We've got plenty. There's plenty to go around.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.579
And when we start framing it that way, it's less
00:33:12.579 --> 00:33:14.299
of a, it's not like, well, I don't want to be
00:33:14.299 --> 00:33:17.279
a burden because I need, because I'm missing
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.180
this person. It's, bank's full. It's like, I'm
00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:25.670
hungry. Okay. The pantry's full. Go buy snacks
00:33:25.670 --> 00:33:27.349
because there used to be three people eating.
00:33:27.769 --> 00:33:30.269
Now there's only two people eating. There's plenty
00:33:30.269 --> 00:33:32.390
of food in the pantry. Go for it. It's that way
00:33:32.390 --> 00:33:34.730
emotionally. I'm feeling this love for hunger,
00:33:34.849 --> 00:33:37.490
love hunger. And you're like, okay, there's plenty
00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:40.490
of supply because the Lord replenishes the supply.
00:33:40.490 --> 00:33:43.329
Our faith community replenishes the supply. I
00:33:43.329 --> 00:33:46.809
think people are scared to... They have a scarcity
00:33:46.809 --> 00:33:49.289
mindset with their grief, a scarcity mindset
00:33:49.289 --> 00:33:52.490
with their emotions. Is this a space where do
00:33:52.490 --> 00:33:55.349
I need to make myself less? And so when you're
00:33:55.349 --> 00:33:58.269
a leader in any capacity, you say, this is a
00:33:58.269 --> 00:34:00.930
normal emotion. You're allowed to feel it. And
00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:02.630
it's my job to make sure you got the space to
00:34:02.630 --> 00:34:04.789
feel it because I feel it too. And I'm not going
00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:07.450
to pretend like I don't. And so our community
00:34:07.450 --> 00:34:10.090
feels it. We've walked through it together. There's
00:34:10.090 --> 00:34:13.550
space for you to give your grief with me because
00:34:13.550 --> 00:34:17.010
I don't hold. my grief permanently, right? I
00:34:17.010 --> 00:34:19.789
take it somewhere and drop it off there. So if
00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:22.150
you, I'm like, oh, we're grieving. Well, let's
00:34:22.150 --> 00:34:23.989
just make this a trip where we all go together
00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:26.250
to the same place where we go every day. And
00:34:26.250 --> 00:34:30.530
there's something that's even more bonding about
00:34:30.530 --> 00:34:33.230
that. What about the culture? You know, the cliche,
00:34:33.630 --> 00:34:39.250
it's okay not to be okay exists because the culture,
00:34:39.409 --> 00:34:42.150
I mean, I would say probably more for men than
00:34:42.150 --> 00:34:45.739
for women in a certain context, but it applies
00:34:45.739 --> 00:34:49.500
broadly to that, like at some point, whether
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:54.820
the pressure is real or perceived. I mean, obviously,
00:34:54.940 --> 00:35:00.699
when you suffer loss, at some point, I had someone
00:35:00.699 --> 00:35:04.079
tell me who lost her dad many years ago, say
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:08.420
it gets it gets the most difficult after everyone
00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:12.480
leaves after the funeral. After the funeral's
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.320
done and the family leaves and then everyone
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:18.840
goes back to their lives and yours is the only
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:23.059
one drastically different is when it gets most
00:35:23.059 --> 00:35:26.760
difficult. And I think people, again, and I say
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:30.719
that very intentionally, that whether it's actual
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.059
pressure to be okay or perceived pressure from
00:35:34.059 --> 00:35:36.019
the world, everyone else is getting on with their
00:35:36.019 --> 00:35:39.280
lives. Less and less people are following up.
00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:41.849
You're getting less and less cards, right? And
00:35:41.849 --> 00:35:46.070
so the food stops showing up, like the practical
00:35:46.070 --> 00:35:50.150
things to keep you moving forward. I feel like
00:35:50.150 --> 00:35:53.170
no one's going to, unless you're a really shy
00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:55.369
person, no one's going to look at someone who
00:35:55.369 --> 00:35:57.309
lost someone and go, my gosh, it's been three
00:35:57.309 --> 00:36:01.070
years. Get over it, you know? But to a certain
00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:04.769
extent, I think I've heard people tell me, like,
00:36:04.789 --> 00:36:08.530
I still miss. X, like I lost them yesterday and
00:36:08.530 --> 00:36:12.369
it's been 15 years, you know? And so in your
00:36:12.369 --> 00:36:14.409
grief share classes and things like that, have
00:36:14.409 --> 00:36:17.190
there been discussions around like giving it
00:36:17.190 --> 00:36:20.230
space to have, especially as a man, giving the
00:36:20.230 --> 00:36:22.130
space to have the emotions, it's okay to cry,
00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:26.610
like what have you learned in those? Well, I've
00:36:26.610 --> 00:36:28.369
learned that, you know, the emotions, the more
00:36:28.369 --> 00:36:30.849
you fight them, it's like the wave is just going
00:36:30.849 --> 00:36:34.230
to keep pushing and it will win. And so it will
00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:37.809
get worse. The more you try to prevent it from
00:36:37.809 --> 00:36:40.489
happening, the more the buildup and then the
00:36:40.489 --> 00:36:43.610
bigger the blow up, right? So it's like, feel
00:36:43.610 --> 00:36:46.710
it. You've just got to ride that wave. Grief,
00:36:46.750 --> 00:36:49.449
one of my former elders from my church growing
00:36:49.449 --> 00:36:52.949
up, very wise man, he said, you know, grief will
00:36:52.949 --> 00:36:56.230
be an uninvited guest that shows up at your door
00:36:56.230 --> 00:36:59.110
and you just got to sit with him until he decides
00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:01.369
he's done with you for the moment. Because the
00:37:01.369 --> 00:37:05.880
more you fight that uninvited guest, the worse
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:10.960
he treats you. And then when he decides, I'm
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.599
done with this guy, he's not, you know, we're
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.960
just sitting here. And I don't fight it, not
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:18.679
just because I want it to go away, but because
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:21.980
grief is a teacher. And the scripture says that
00:37:21.980 --> 00:37:24.079
God is close to the brokenhearted. So when I
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.980
feel brokenhearted, I can't just try to pretend
00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:30.340
like that's not because that uninvited guest
00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:33.199
may be the invited God that I have been asking
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:35.860
for. because he's close to the brokenhearted.
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:37.800
And when I'm brokenhearted and he's there and
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.300
I say, well, I don't want your friend to grieve.
00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:43.780
And he goes, well, I'm here with him. And so
00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:47.000
if you shut everything out, you're not receiving
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.260
the help that you may need. And other people,
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.679
other relationships, friendships are grieving
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:55.239
too. The couple friends that you sometimes hang
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:56.699
out with, they're like, man, this is different.
00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.559
And they are mourning the loss. I've had couples
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:02.960
friends. who, like, me and the dude would hang
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.380
out, and Sarah and the wife would hang out. You
00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:07.699
know, we'd all get together and eat, and then
00:38:07.699 --> 00:38:10.099
we'd separate. And then the first time we got
00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:14.820
back together again, after her passing, I went
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:16.380
over to their house because it was like, we've
00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:18.119
just got to do this. It wasn't intentional. It
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:22.760
was beautiful. It was difficult because that
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:29.280
fourth chair is really empty. And then my friend
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.119
and I. Went to have our guy time and I came back
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:34.260
and I was like, this has got to be hard for you
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:37.400
on a different level than it is for us. Obviously
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.079
it's hard for me on a different level because
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:41.320
I've lost my wife. But whenever I come over to
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.300
your house, it used to be, we're going to do
00:38:44.300 --> 00:38:46.139
this and now we know the drill, we're going to
00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:49.300
have this routine. But the fact that my friend
00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:52.900
was still, they were over at my house two nights
00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:54.940
ago. to have a meal because it's like this is
00:38:54.940 --> 00:38:57.019
still good it's still it's still healthy it's
00:38:57.019 --> 00:38:59.320
different and it's never going to be the same
00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:01.340
but it can still move forward different the best
00:39:01.340 --> 00:39:03.460
friendships adapt and go with you on that they
00:39:03.460 --> 00:39:05.480
were also people that were with us the entire
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.360
way who made space and said what's your diet
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.260
so that when you come to eat we know what you
00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:11.320
can eat like yeah these people that are grieving
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:13.820
with you and and flexible with you the entire
00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:16.940
time then they will be flexible with you into
00:39:16.940 --> 00:39:19.840
the next stage a lot of times if people aren't
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:21.739
on that level with you they tend to be like okay
00:39:21.739 --> 00:39:24.460
well i guess this it was fun and it has been
00:39:24.460 --> 00:39:27.360
but now this is where we've got to try to maybe
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.619
dial in in other ways