Healing After Suicide Loss: Breaking the Silence That Keeps Survivors Stuck | Jayne Madigan EP |

WEBVTT
00:01:15.609 --> 00:01:17.409
Close your eyes and imagine.
00:01:18.890 --> 00:01:24.829
What if the things in life that caused us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges.
00:01:26.510 --> 00:01:31.490
Challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be.
00:01:32.370 --> 00:01:37.490
We feel like we've been buried, but what if, like a seed, we've been planted?
00:01:38.629 --> 00:01:42.049
And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree.
00:01:43.129 --> 00:01:45.230
Now, open your eyes.
00:01:46.049 --> 00:01:47.750
Open your eyes to this way of viewing life.
00:01:48.650 --> 00:01:52.990
Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature.
00:01:54.069 --> 00:01:58.270
This is Grief to Growth, and I am your host, Brian Smith.
00:02:00.450 --> 00:02:01.569
Welcome to Grief to Growth.
00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:05.629
I'm Brian Smith, and if you're new here, this shows about the questions that don't have easy answers.
00:02:06.129 --> 00:02:08.530
What happens to the people that we love after they're gone?
00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:10.829
Is grief a wall, or is it a door?
00:02:10.829 --> 00:02:16.930
And when life breaks us open in ways we never expected, is it possible that something extraordinary can come through?
00:02:17.550 --> 00:02:21.009
I bring guests who have walked through the fire and come back with something worth sharing.
00:02:21.930 --> 00:02:24.689
Jane Madigan has been walking through the fire for 33 years.
00:02:25.349 --> 00:02:34.509
She's a certified neuropsychotherapist, a master EFT practitioner, an energy medicine specialist, and a suicide bereavement clinician.
00:02:34.710 --> 00:02:36.670
But those titles only tell you what she studied.
00:02:37.210 --> 00:02:38.909
What shaped her is what she survived.
00:02:38.909 --> 00:02:42.629
She lost her uncle Ray on New Year's Day in 1992.
00:02:43.170 --> 00:02:45.230
Then her nephew Brandon at just 24.
00:02:45.790 --> 00:02:48.189
Then Brandon's best friend, then her brother.
00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:51.349
So, suicide lost it and visit Jane just once.
00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:52.490
It kept coming back.
00:02:53.150 --> 00:03:01.050
And each time, she went deeper into the neuroscience, into the body, into the energy systems that hold grief long after the mind thinks it should be done.
00:03:01.790 --> 00:03:03.769
And here's something that stopped me when I learned it.
00:03:04.069 --> 00:03:07.550
The unprocessed grief from her uncle's death didn't just break her heart.
00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:11.310
It showed up in her body as a terminal lupus diagnosis.
00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:14.150
Doctors told her she wouldn't live past 50.
00:03:14.710 --> 00:03:15.949
She was a young mother of two.
00:03:16.530 --> 00:03:20.829
And that's when she went looking for tools that could reach with talk therapy couldn't and she found them.
00:03:21.210 --> 00:03:31.270
So in our conversation, we're going to explore why suicide loss is its own category of grief and why it lands differently, why it lingers differently and demands a different kind of healing.
00:03:31.890 --> 00:03:34.930
We're going to talk about what actually happens inside the nervous system.
00:03:34.930 --> 00:03:40.590
We lose some of this way and what it takes to restore safety when the body is still in shock.
00:03:40.810 --> 00:03:46.870
We talk about meaning making spiritual experiences and a silence and shame that still surround this kind of loss.
00:03:47.409 --> 00:03:57.689
So if you've lost someone is suicide and you've wondered if the weight will ever lift, if the questions will ever quiet, if you're ever feel something other than broken, this conversation is for you.
00:03:58.189 --> 00:04:03.930
And if you want to continue this conversation after the episode, head over to grief to growth.substack.com.
00:04:04.050 --> 00:04:07.390
That's grief and numeral to growth.substack.com.
00:04:07.490 --> 00:04:12.969
And you'll find an article about today's conversation where you can comment and connect with me and with other listeners.
00:04:13.770 --> 00:04:15.530
And with that, let's welcome Jane Madigan.
00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:16.789
Hi, Brian.
00:04:16.949 --> 00:04:18.250
Thank you so much for having me here today.
00:04:19.149 --> 00:04:20.909
Jane, it is it is great to have you here.
00:04:21.210 --> 00:04:22.389
We this is our second chance.
00:04:22.669 --> 00:04:23.509
I just attempted this.
00:04:23.669 --> 00:04:26.250
We had a little glitch yesterday, but we're together today.
00:04:28.210 --> 00:04:30.949
First of all, I want to say I'm sorry for your your losses.
00:04:30.949 --> 00:04:38.289
I know that you've had multiple losses, but it sounds like your journey with the suicide thing really began with your uncle Ray.
00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:39.769
So tell me about your uncle Ray.
00:04:40.550 --> 00:04:42.009
Well, he was only forty seven.
00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:43.470
He was also my godfather.
00:04:43.710 --> 00:04:47.069
He was my father figure because I was a stranger for my biological father.
00:04:47.230 --> 00:04:51.289
So I was very close to him, but he was just a wonderful family man.
00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:53.689
He was happily married, had two teenage sons.
00:04:54.689 --> 00:04:58.330
I'm very vivacious, always laughing, joking.
00:04:59.769 --> 00:05:01.029
So it was a total shock.
00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:06.509
He had just moved his lifelong dream was to move his family back to Florida where he grew up.
00:05:06.970 --> 00:05:09.409
So his son was in high school, getting ready to graduate.
00:05:09.649 --> 00:05:11.730
So the family he convinced the family to move.
00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:15.810
So they moved down there and it happened within weeks of the move.
00:05:15.889 --> 00:05:18.389
So we're not sure what, you know, what broke.
00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:29.189
Yeah, so that's my journey started because this happened in 1992 and I had never I had heard the word, but I'd never known anyone.
00:05:29.330 --> 00:05:33.590
It was my first experience with suicide because we always think that people we know aren't going to do that.
00:05:33.928 --> 00:05:34.070
Exactly.
00:05:35.149 --> 00:05:37.429
Because of the stigma, I was raised Catholic.
00:05:38.669 --> 00:05:42.429
So, you know, the Catholic Church at the time thought it was a sin that the sense changed.
00:05:42.909 --> 00:05:44.690
So we had to go through all of that, too.
00:05:44.870 --> 00:05:48.029
We didn't we didn't just have to go through a death by suicide.
00:05:49.350 --> 00:05:58.230
But the church and you want to bury him and, you know, in the cemetery, you know, back then, they didn't bury you in the cemetery with people that died another way.
00:05:58.450 --> 00:05:59.730
So we didn't have to get all of that.
00:05:59.889 --> 00:06:01.889
So that's what happens to suicide loss survivors.
00:06:02.110 --> 00:06:03.529
It's not just a death.
00:06:04.909 --> 00:06:07.049
There's a lot of stigma and a lot in a lot of red tape.
00:06:07.169 --> 00:06:08.350
And so that was in 1992.
00:06:09.230 --> 00:06:10.490
And then my nephew passed.
00:06:10.889 --> 00:06:12.090
And so I thought I was done.
00:06:12.090 --> 00:06:24.409
I think I did my time, as you mentioned, I was I couldn't I back in 1992, I couldn't find the help I needed for suicide because the stigma is so bad that therapist didn't want to say the word.
00:06:24.450 --> 00:06:27.429
There was grief therapy, but there was no one that specialized in suicide.
00:06:28.049 --> 00:06:29.649
So they wanted to treat it just like grief.
00:06:29.710 --> 00:06:30.309
So I tried that.
00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:38.529
I tried everything because also my family being raised Catholic, we were told back then we were told not to say how he died.
00:06:39.429 --> 00:06:41.230
Yeah, I wanted to say how he died.
00:06:41.230 --> 00:06:45.669
I knew I had to say how he died because that doesn't define who he was.
00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:50.850
I mean, he was not someone that just made that decision in the middle of the night.
00:06:51.149 --> 00:06:52.350
I mean, I just don't think it's a decision.
00:06:52.529 --> 00:06:54.009
I think it's more of a brain disease personally.
00:06:55.309 --> 00:06:57.110
So so that's what that was my quest.
00:06:57.269 --> 00:06:57.809
I couldn't speak.
00:06:57.970 --> 00:06:59.269
I really couldn't talk about it.
00:06:59.350 --> 00:07:01.250
I couldn't find a therapist that wants to talk about it.
00:07:01.629 --> 00:07:09.350
So long story short, five years later, I was diagnosed with lupus because I started getting really physically sick because I was holding it all in.
00:07:09.350 --> 00:07:14.750
And as you mentioned in the intro, I was told I wouldn't live past the age of 50.
00:07:16.029 --> 00:07:19.269
I just knew if I was going to I wanted I'm a more positive.
00:07:19.309 --> 00:07:20.590
I've always been a more positive person.
00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:26.029
So this was going to be my my life, you know, my end of my life.
00:07:26.190 --> 00:07:29.230
I wanted quality over quantity because at that point I was disabled.
00:07:30.309 --> 00:07:32.710
I for two years, I had two small children.
00:07:32.870 --> 00:07:33.509
I couldn't function.
00:07:33.809 --> 00:07:37.769
So that's when my intuition kicked in and thought, hey, there's a better way.
00:07:37.769 --> 00:07:44.649
I wanted quality if I only had five years or whatever, you know, the time would be I wanted to be there for my kids.
00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:46.269
So that's when I started doing the holistic.
00:07:46.570 --> 00:07:48.490
I've always been really holistic anyway.
00:07:48.649 --> 00:07:50.169
And back then it wasn't a thing.
00:07:50.730 --> 00:07:55.309
So that's when I had to get out the encyclopedias didn't have the Internet back then.
00:07:55.309 --> 00:07:58.470
So I dig up the encyclopedias, go to the library and do my own research.
00:07:58.490 --> 00:08:00.009
So I found, you know, yoga.
00:08:01.090 --> 00:08:05.210
So I really got into that essential oils and anything meditation.
00:08:05.210 --> 00:08:09.090
I think it's one thing that basically saved my life.
00:08:09.210 --> 00:08:15.070
And that's one of the big things I teach people because it helps rewire neural pathways and stuff, which I didn't know at the time.
00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:18.590
So and then I found emotional freedom technique.
00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:20.110
It had come out in 1996.
00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:22.509
I'll never forget I was in a therapist's office.
00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:24.710
And again, we weren't really talking.
00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:26.049
We were doing like a grief therapy.
00:08:26.230 --> 00:08:26.710
But she had this.
00:08:26.809 --> 00:08:32.970
She took out this blue folder out of her desk and kind of slid it across the table and said, take this home and look at it.
00:08:32.970 --> 00:08:35.309
OK, this is interesting.
00:08:36.289 --> 00:08:37.490
So I didn't wait till I got home.
00:08:37.629 --> 00:08:38.570
I got in the car, opened it.
00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:46.990
It was this diaphragm with about emotional freedom technique, you know, tapping on your face and your your your meridian points.
00:08:47.190 --> 00:08:49.629
And I thought, OK, I just lost.
00:08:49.909 --> 00:08:51.070
I had a tragic lost.
00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:55.210
I have a terminal diagnosis and you want me to tap on my face.
00:08:55.309 --> 00:08:56.690
I thought it was the craziest thing ever heard.
00:08:56.789 --> 00:08:58.850
I took the folder home and filed it.
00:08:59.769 --> 00:09:00.950
I kept it for some reason.
00:09:00.950 --> 00:09:03.629
And then like three years later, I kept hearing that.
00:09:03.990 --> 00:09:06.730
I thought, OK, it's like you're being tapped on the shoulder kind of thing.
00:09:06.750 --> 00:09:08.009
So I thought, OK, this is the message.
00:09:08.190 --> 00:09:09.169
So that's when I pulled it out.
00:09:09.210 --> 00:09:12.090
And I think that's what really saved my life to tell you the truth.
00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:17.570
That was a huge turning point for me because you familiar with emotional freedom technique, right?
00:09:17.690 --> 00:09:17.970
A little bit.
00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:18.269
Yeah.
00:09:18.629 --> 00:09:18.730
Yeah.
00:09:19.289 --> 00:09:20.669
A lot of people call it tapping, as you said.
00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:21.909
Yes, no, it's tapping.
00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:28.210
And, you know, it's become a really widespread thing, but people really don't understand what it does, I don't think.
00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:30.750
So this is one of the main tools.
00:09:30.750 --> 00:09:35.850
I use today with my clients because it's rewiring your subconscious.
00:09:36.409 --> 00:09:37.389
It's calming your mental.
00:09:37.730 --> 00:09:41.070
It shifts you from fight or flight into parasympathetic.
00:09:41.129 --> 00:09:42.409
So it's not just tapping.
00:09:42.909 --> 00:09:47.769
So if anyone's listening to think it's just tapping, I would suggest diving deeper because that's what I thought.
00:09:48.068 --> 00:09:52.009
Oh, I I didn't have a choice of OK, I'm going to try this.
00:09:52.289 --> 00:09:55.169
So then I became certified now master practitioner.
00:09:55.448 --> 00:09:57.708
So I teach it to my clients, too.
00:09:57.789 --> 00:09:58.889
But that was my turning point.
00:09:58.889 --> 00:10:00.829
So then I thought, OK, and then I healed.
00:10:01.370 --> 00:10:07.949
I'm on no medication at all because all of the stuff that I do, you know, use it on myself first.
00:10:08.269 --> 00:10:13.449
Obviously, you know, we practice what we teach, practice what we preach, I guess.
00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:16.189
But then so I thought I was done with suicide.
00:10:16.750 --> 00:10:18.389
And but you don't really get over suicide.
00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:24.189
I was still I learned how to live with the grief and the joy at the same time because any loss is just part of you.
00:10:24.949 --> 00:10:28.850
So and then in twenty twenty four, no, I'm sorry.
00:10:29.069 --> 00:10:29.750
Twenty twenty two.
00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:35.209
I got the phone call from my sister that Brandon had died by suicide.
00:10:35.409 --> 00:10:36.370
I said, Brandon, who?
00:10:36.970 --> 00:10:38.949
Because I thought I was done with suicide.
00:10:39.409 --> 00:10:40.569
And that was my 20 year old nephew.
00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:41.909
He was also my godson.
00:10:42.289 --> 00:10:43.689
So he was like my my son.
00:10:45.449 --> 00:10:46.669
I was very close to him.
00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:48.589
So got to his house.
00:10:48.769 --> 00:10:49.269
It was true.
00:10:49.509 --> 00:10:51.370
So that's when my spiral started all over again.
00:10:51.750 --> 00:10:56.949
I remember even telling the police officer, I was so, you know, just oriented at the time, I thought, OK, this has got to be a mistake.
00:10:57.110 --> 00:11:00.110
He did not take his own life because I've already had it.
00:11:00.189 --> 00:11:01.389
I've already done a suicide.
00:11:02.449 --> 00:11:06.429
But so, you know, we don't get to choose what comes our way.
00:11:06.569 --> 00:11:10.230
So this is why, as I say, my message become my message.
00:11:10.490 --> 00:11:18.209
So this is what I like to teach people, because when you lose someone to suicide, you lose friends, you lose people because of the stigma.
00:11:19.289 --> 00:11:20.649
I lost a lot of friends every night.
00:11:20.649 --> 00:11:27.529
Then after Brandon passed in 2022, his best friend took his life a year to the day of nephew, a year to the day of Brandon.
00:11:28.089 --> 00:11:29.929
And my brother took his life two years after that.
00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:31.329
So I'm actually a new survivor, too.
00:11:33.610 --> 00:11:35.309
So, again, we don't get to pick and choose.
00:11:35.490 --> 00:11:37.089
But I really don't think it's a choice.
00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:38.529
I don't think suicide is a choice.
00:11:38.669 --> 00:11:41.209
And that's what I like to talk about when I can.
00:11:41.449 --> 00:11:42.889
Because as survivors, that's what we.
00:11:44.549 --> 00:11:51.990
That's the hardest thing to get over, is that our person made the decision to leave us with all of this pain.
00:11:52.809 --> 00:11:55.129
So I don't really think it's a conscious choice.
00:11:55.429 --> 00:11:58.730
I don't really know from all the science, all the work that I've done.
00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:00.029
That's just my belief.
00:12:00.069 --> 00:12:01.669
But there's a lot of science coming out about that.
00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:02.990
If anyone wants to research that.
00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:09.529
But also, and that's what keeps survivors stuck, because then you feel anger, you feel abandoned.
00:12:10.189 --> 00:12:11.129
They made this choice.
00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:12.829
And society thinks they made that choice.
00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:18.250
I've had people tell me, you know, friends, I lost a friend of 30 something years when my nephew died.
00:12:18.370 --> 00:12:20.209
She said, you've got too much of this in your life.
00:12:20.809 --> 00:12:22.350
So they kind of you kind of feel like you're contagious.
00:12:22.970 --> 00:12:23.870
Oh, wow.
00:12:24.309 --> 00:12:28.909
And because when you lose someone by suicide, you don't get the phone calls.
00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:29.949
You don't get the cards.
00:12:30.149 --> 00:12:31.089
You don't get the cash rolls.
00:12:31.250 --> 00:12:31.889
You get none of that.
00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:35.990
Like my sister, especially 1992, none of that happened.
00:12:36.509 --> 00:12:40.189
I mean, they don't treat you like you lost a loved one.
00:12:40.750 --> 00:12:44.189
They treat you like kind of like you've done something wrong.
00:12:44.189 --> 00:12:45.230
Yeah, right.
00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:46.230
Right.
00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:49.649
Because, you know, we're attached to this person.
00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:55.750
So anyway, so long story short, with my sister in 2022, my nephew passed, that was her youngest son.
00:12:56.470 --> 00:13:04.169
She lives in a subdivision that has, you know, the meal trains when people, you know, have babies, deaths, whatever she participates.
00:13:04.490 --> 00:13:05.850
She got nothing on my my nephew.
00:13:06.329 --> 00:13:09.250
And they knew that he died by he died by suicide.
00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:14.169
And my subdivision, my neighborhood, my nephew had a landscaping service.
00:13:14.169 --> 00:13:16.449
So he did a lot of the neighbor's lawns.
00:13:17.689 --> 00:13:20.110
They have not even this has been four years now.
00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:22.009
They've never even mentioned they know what happened.
00:13:22.370 --> 00:13:24.389
So that's what happens to suicide loss survivors.
00:13:24.589 --> 00:13:25.929
That's what people don't understand.
00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:32.429
And that's why I like to talk about suicide, talk very openly about it, because I'm not ashamed of my loved ones.
00:13:32.689 --> 00:13:33.549
I don't mean they were sick.
00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:34.409
They had an illness.
00:13:34.509 --> 00:13:39.629
And I always often think what really helped me the most when I finally thought one day, OK, you can have two people that have cancer.
00:13:40.370 --> 00:13:41.490
They are going through the same.
00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:43.209
They're on the same exact treatments.
00:13:43.209 --> 00:13:44.889
One dies and one lives.
00:13:45.569 --> 00:13:48.269
That kind of thing is the same thing with depression, mental illness.
00:13:48.429 --> 00:13:51.949
Some people survive and some don't.
00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:52.370
Yeah.
00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:57.169
So that's the hard part for survivors to understand is, you know, that this person abandoned them.
00:13:57.189 --> 00:13:58.870
I don't really don't think that's what the case is.
00:13:59.309 --> 00:14:00.549
So a lot of research is coming out.
00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:05.549
More research is coming out about that right now that I'm I'm not involved in the research.
00:14:05.669 --> 00:14:09.569
I'm not I'm not making it happen, but I keep I keep up with all of that.
00:14:09.569 --> 00:14:14.429
So that's what my my goal in my lifetime is for something to change.
00:14:14.970 --> 00:14:20.389
I don't know if we're going to stop people from nine of different illnesses and diseases.
00:14:20.389 --> 00:14:25.069
But I hope that suicide becomes more recognized as a disease and not a choice.
00:14:25.769 --> 00:14:25.870
Yeah.
00:14:26.449 --> 00:14:27.329
And not a bad word.
00:14:27.470 --> 00:14:28.709
People act like it's a bad word.
00:14:29.169 --> 00:14:29.289
Yeah.
00:14:29.769 --> 00:14:32.970
And I think we're we're slowly getting there.
00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:40.009
You know, I was I was working with a client whose granddaughter passed by suicide.
00:14:41.189 --> 00:14:43.329
And the first of all, the language is changing, right?
00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:45.490
We don't say we don't say committed suicide anymore.
00:14:45.709 --> 00:14:47.029
And people are starting to pick up on that.
00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:50.850
And the other thing is this family happens to be Catholic.
00:14:51.209 --> 00:15:01.769
And, you know, I was surprised and pleasantly surprised that they had a big mass for her in a service in the church and everything, because I know that was not in the Catholic Church before.
00:15:02.569 --> 00:15:05.850
Not only would they not have a mass for you could be buried in the Catholic cemetery.
00:15:06.329 --> 00:15:06.689
All right.
00:15:06.829 --> 00:15:07.569
That's what happened with my uncle.
00:15:08.289 --> 00:15:08.389
Yeah.
00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:08.990
Yeah.
00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:10.149
All of that has changed.
00:15:10.309 --> 00:15:11.769
That has there has been a lot of change.
00:15:12.629 --> 00:15:18.870
So, yeah, I've seen some change, but I was surprised that the stigma on a personal level was still there for me.
00:15:19.069 --> 00:15:19.169
Yeah.
00:15:19.870 --> 00:15:23.370
And that then that's that does surprise me and really is disappointing.
00:15:24.189 --> 00:15:26.629
And I was going to ask you, but I don't think I really have to.
00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:31.669
Now, you know, people people are so much a lot of people are going through going through grief or gone through grief.
00:15:32.189 --> 00:15:36.809
And we have all different kinds of ways that we that we transition out of this life.
00:15:37.089 --> 00:15:41.569
Cancer, as you mentioned, accidents, drug overdoses, et cetera.
00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:45.289
And and it's weird how we judge each one of those deaths.
00:15:45.289 --> 00:15:45.629
Right.
00:15:46.009 --> 00:15:50.449
But the one that we judge seems like more than any is the is the is suicide.
00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:50.850
Right.
00:15:50.990 --> 00:15:57.189
And then it also so comes with you feel guilt because your loved one has decided to leave.
00:15:57.329 --> 00:15:58.730
You say, I should have picked up on this.
00:15:58.750 --> 00:15:58.990
Right.
00:15:59.490 --> 00:16:01.269
Other people act like it's contagious.
00:16:01.669 --> 00:16:05.350
So they act like not only does it shame your love when it shames you.
00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:11.289
So it's one of those almost invisible losses, not really recognized for you.
00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:16.069
And so that that is why what you do is so, so important.
00:16:17.209 --> 00:16:24.730
Yeah, it's hard and hard for survivors because I also have two family members that are attempt survivors that I basically helped.
00:16:25.629 --> 00:16:28.129
You know, they're they're well now.
00:16:28.129 --> 00:16:33.350
So I do know that not everyone dies per se.
00:16:33.470 --> 00:16:39.329
And that's why I think the confusions are on the suicide because they're like, well, you know, what is one person you know about the brain disease theory?
00:16:39.769 --> 00:16:43.789
Well, how come some people survive and some don't back to the cancer thing, back to any any illness?
00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:49.470
See, that is the hardest part is that we are isolated and we don't feel like we belong anywhere.
00:16:50.049 --> 00:16:50.949
I have a lot of clients.
00:16:51.069 --> 00:16:56.829
I feel like I do because I have worked very hard to stick my eye for 34 years now.
00:16:56.829 --> 00:17:01.149
But I had to relive it again back in 2022.
00:17:01.389 --> 00:17:03.649
And I was really so surprised that I'm not not a lot.
00:17:03.789 --> 00:17:15.089
It changed as me with a newly you know, with a new loss of suicide, because it's again, I didn't have friends calling me asking me how I was doing.
00:17:16.990 --> 00:17:19.789
You don't go again, you don't get the cards, you don't get the casseroles.
00:17:19.950 --> 00:17:24.450
It's kind of like you feel ashamed for some reason.
00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:31.529
And I don't feel ashamed of my loved ones, because even my nephew Brandon, he was 24, if you were to meet him, he was actually a lot like my uncle.
00:17:31.750 --> 00:17:34.730
He had never met my uncle because my uncle passed before he was born.
00:17:35.410 --> 00:17:38.730
So I used to always tell Brandon, you remind me so much of Uncle Rick.
00:17:39.630 --> 00:17:39.730
Hmm.
00:17:40.049 --> 00:17:41.490
Never droughts.
00:17:42.269 --> 00:17:45.089
Again, very happy, go lucky.
00:17:45.390 --> 00:17:45.870
Always joke.
00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:49.170
It's like a Robin Williams type thing, I think they mask it.
00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:49.829
Yeah.
00:17:50.410 --> 00:17:50.509
Yeah.
00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:53.089
That's the confusing part for people when they lose their loved one.
00:17:53.089 --> 00:17:56.710
And they'll say, well, they were so happy, you know, they did this, that.
00:17:56.850 --> 00:17:58.630
But we don't know what they had internally.
00:17:58.910 --> 00:17:59.630
So those years.
00:18:00.009 --> 00:18:00.110
Yeah.
00:18:00.789 --> 00:18:11.809
And the thing is, you know, and I I've talked to some people who are suicide survivors and I actually talked to someone who was someone who attempted suicide and survived it.
00:18:12.370 --> 00:18:18.529
And, you know, we try to understand and judge people based upon the way our brains work.
00:18:19.269 --> 00:18:20.970
And so we ask ourselves these questions.
00:18:21.009 --> 00:18:22.509
Well, why would they do that?
00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:31.049
And some of the things I've come to believe is like I think a lot of times people think because people will say, well, it's a selfish act or it's a weak act and it's not.
00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:32.670
It's neither one of those things.
00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:37.289
They've they've convinced themselves in many cases that the world will be better off without them.
00:18:38.049 --> 00:18:45.190
So they really feel like it's an act of like they'll be better off without me, which doesn't make sense from, you know, our minds.
00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:47.069
But I think that's what some people feel.
00:18:47.649 --> 00:18:48.049
Absolutely.
00:18:48.670 --> 00:18:48.789
Yeah.
00:18:48.889 --> 00:18:58.149
Because I've done a lot of research because when I lost my uncle, that was on a mission to find every attempt survivor I could find to find out what are you thinking about it?
00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:01.289
And they all have told me they didn't want to die.
00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:03.009
They want the pain to stop.
00:19:03.170 --> 00:19:05.950
And many of them said it's like an out of body experience.
00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:11.990
They didn't even realize they were doing that until a dog barked or a phone rang.
00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:18.529
And that's why they survived because they kind of they were basically a trance, it's how they describe it, you know, basically go offline.
00:19:19.049 --> 00:19:21.349
There's a book out dying to be free.
00:19:22.369 --> 00:19:24.710
Kurt Cobain, a musician.
00:19:25.029 --> 00:19:26.170
This is his cousin.
00:19:26.349 --> 00:19:27.269
She's a psychiatric nurse.
00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:27.930
She wrote this book.
00:19:28.129 --> 00:19:34.289
So if anyone wants to pick up that book, it's very informative because she comes from a psychiatric nurse perspective.
00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:42.690
So she was basically she wrote the book, not just not because Kurt passed by suicide, but also to explain to people what she had gone through.
00:19:44.289 --> 00:19:45.389
Things just happened in her life.
00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:46.690
She was stressed about something.
00:19:46.690 --> 00:19:52.849
And so one night she goes home and all she remembers was the phone ringing and she had a gun in her hand.
00:19:54.009 --> 00:19:55.569
So that phone went in her brain.
00:19:56.230 --> 00:19:57.089
She would have taken her life.
00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:01.990
But of course, when it shocked her out of it, yeah, she never tried again.
00:20:02.769 --> 00:20:04.690
So that's why I do think your brain goes offline.
00:20:04.869 --> 00:20:08.789
And she describes it in her book as like a brain attack.
00:20:09.009 --> 00:20:10.710
Like right now, I'm sitting here, I'm talking to you.
00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:11.529
I could have a heart attack.
00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:11.990
I could die.
00:20:12.629 --> 00:20:12.730
Yeah.
00:20:12.829 --> 00:20:13.069
Right here.
00:20:13.210 --> 00:20:13.710
I could just die.
00:20:13.829 --> 00:20:15.309
And you think, oh, my God, what happened to her?
00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:20.589
She describes the same thing that there you're just plugging along in life and then you just go offline.
00:20:21.509 --> 00:20:27.329
And that's why, again, some survive and some don't, because there's an intervention of some sort like a phone and a dog bark.
00:20:27.529 --> 00:20:28.849
I've had I've heard many stories.
00:20:29.369 --> 00:20:31.889
Another young girl that I have worked with.
00:20:32.589 --> 00:20:34.289
She's she was 18 at the time.
00:20:34.970 --> 00:20:39.589
Beautiful, blonde, popular, cheerleader, class president from the outside.
00:20:39.809 --> 00:20:41.210
She had everything you could imagine.
00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:45.849
So when she was telling her friends how she felt, they just said, why are you talking like that?
00:20:45.990 --> 00:20:46.329
Look at you.
00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:47.769
So they kind of pushed back.
00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:51.109
And so she internalized it.
00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:58.269
And she remembers going home because she had no one to talk to this point, because when she tried talking, even her parents to semester like, what are you talking about?
00:20:58.329 --> 00:20:59.389
You're just having a bad day.
00:20:59.529 --> 00:21:02.629
So she went home one day, got her father's firearm.
00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:08.869
And all she remembers is hearing a big noise, obviously, the gun.
00:21:09.289 --> 00:21:11.670
And her first thought was, oh, thank God, I'm still alive.
00:21:12.289 --> 00:21:14.869
Again, she doesn't even remember getting that guy.
00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:21.109
So so many of those stories out there where she was kind of like in this trance, like a blackout type thing is how they describe it.
00:21:21.269 --> 00:21:32.250
Yeah, she she's now paralyzed because she thought she was going to, you know, she was through her heart, hit her spinal form, but she is the happiest person I'll ever meet because she's got the second lease on life.
00:21:32.710 --> 00:21:33.549
And it changed her.
00:21:33.930 --> 00:21:34.369
It changed her.
00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:36.609
She's in a wheelchair, but she just got married.
00:21:37.149 --> 00:21:38.649
She's living a full life.
00:22:44.979 --> 00:22:48.379
So there is a lot of success stories, too.
00:22:48.619 --> 00:22:50.159
So that's why I like to teach people about suicide.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:51.799
It's not all tragedy.
00:22:52.659 --> 00:22:56.419
Some people do get a second lease on life and they are able to make some changes.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:57.219
Yeah.
00:22:57.579 --> 00:23:03.500
Well, I think this is really important to help people understand because we tend to judge what we don't understand.
00:23:03.919 --> 00:23:11.500
And so we judge people who have attempted suicide or people who have completed suicide because we can't put ourselves in that mindset.
00:23:11.879 --> 00:23:13.899
So at least having somewhat of an understanding.
00:23:13.899 --> 00:23:23.139
And when I spoke with her name is Rachel Powell, because she was on my podcast and her husband had died by suicide and she had as attempted suicide.
00:23:23.719 --> 00:23:25.979
So she was explaining to me like the thoughts.
00:23:25.979 --> 00:23:28.699
And it's it's like you mentioned brain attack.
00:23:28.699 --> 00:23:31.319
She's like, it's like these thoughts just keep coming to you.
00:23:31.719 --> 00:23:34.059
And she's like, well, you have to you have to fight them.
00:23:34.539 --> 00:23:43.159
But I think this can also help for the survivors that say I should have been able to stop them to understand that you can't get inside someone's head.
00:23:43.159 --> 00:23:46.859
You know, you don't know what they're thinking and you can't change their thoughts.
00:23:47.059 --> 00:23:49.359
So I was talking about like suicide prevention.
00:23:49.399 --> 00:23:52.199
I'm like, you know, tell me about that because I always wonder.
00:23:52.339 --> 00:23:59.479
And she was telling me it's really kind of giving people the tools, I guess, to fight it themselves because we can't really do it for them.
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.119
Yeah, and also was as survivors of that word prevention.
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:10.559
Many survivors don't like that because that's what gives us, you know, like American suicide prevention foundation and stuff.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:18.479
They do great work, but it's that word prevention that really doesn't sit well with many survivors because that makes them think they could have prevented it.
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:20.419
That's exactly what I was thinking.
00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:22.859
Yes, that's what I was talking to her about.
00:24:22.879 --> 00:24:32.319
It kind of puts the responsibility on us outside to prevent someone else from taking an action, which and I don't want to say we should give up because we should not.
00:24:32.439 --> 00:24:37.459
We should try to help understand and get people tools to fight it, but also not to take that responsibility.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:38.959
Right.
00:24:38.959 --> 00:24:47.299
So, yeah, you know, some of those trigger words are not helpful, but I do think we, I keep fighting and I keep talking.
00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:48.479
That's why I keep talking about it.
00:24:48.639 --> 00:24:48.799
Right.
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:57.219
Because if someone's listening to this conversation, they're having some thoughts, they will go get the help they need and know that, you know, it's not a shame.
00:24:57.399 --> 00:24:58.679
It's not shameful to feel that way.
00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:06.419
And I think that's the biggest thing that keeps people from getting help because they're shut down like the young woman I just talked about is that people think, oh, you're having a bad day.
00:25:06.419 --> 00:25:09.379
And I asked her and I've asked many lost attempt survivors.
00:25:10.719 --> 00:25:12.159
What was one thing that may have helped?
00:25:12.339 --> 00:25:20.459
Then they said if somebody would have just listened and not give unsolicited advice so that because it made her feel like something was wrong with her.
00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:26.859
So, you know, just that's why I told people if someone comes to you and says, hey, I'm having these thoughts, just say, well, tell me about it.
00:25:27.439 --> 00:25:35.240
Because usually if they talk it out without that unsolicited advice, they sometimes are able to get the help they need.
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.299
I'm not saying, you know, just let them go home if you think they're critical, obviously, right?
00:25:39.879 --> 00:25:40.679
But they just want to be heard.
00:25:41.539 --> 00:25:43.899
Yeah, as my nephew had told his family, he was going to do it.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:45.219
Yeah.
00:25:45.439 --> 00:25:52.019
And so there is there is the unsolicited advice, but there's also the dismissal like, you know, you're not serious.
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:53.639
This one, you know, this will never happen.
00:25:53.939 --> 00:25:55.379
And I'm unfortunate.
00:25:55.500 --> 00:26:01.719
I talked to a lot of people that said this person did talk about this, but we never they were a beautiful person.
00:26:01.919 --> 00:26:03.099
They had everything to live for.
00:26:03.099 --> 00:26:06.699
So therefore, you can't be depressed and this would never happen to you.
00:26:07.219 --> 00:26:09.159
And again, we can't we can't tell from the outside.
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.859
I think Robin Williams is a great example that everybody was like, right?
00:26:13.199 --> 00:26:14.519
He's such a happy guy.
00:26:14.719 --> 00:26:18.459
But you know, it doesn't always present the same way.
00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:19.539
And look at Twitch.
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:21.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:21.619 --> 00:26:24.779
The DJ from the Ellen show, he actually passed a couple of weeks after my nephew.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:25.639
Oh, wow.
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:25.919
Yeah.
00:26:26.299 --> 00:26:27.479
So I thought, I mean, look at him.
00:26:27.879 --> 00:26:28.159
Yeah.
00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:30.719
On the outside, it looks perfect.
00:26:30.959 --> 00:26:32.479
So we never know what's going on inside of this.
00:26:32.479 --> 00:26:38.819
But I also have worked with people that it just happens really fast to some people describe it as having the pain for a long time.
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:40.639
And some say it just kind of happened.
00:26:41.719 --> 00:26:46.819
So that's I think just like with cancer, some people have had cancer for a long time and some people get it and die quickly.
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:57.419
So I do think that we just need to look at it as the disease is what my hope is and that if you do have these feelings and talk about it, find someone that will listen.
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:05.899
And so I'm doing a lot of work in high schools and stuff now to talking to the kids there, teaching them of a friend, you know, comes to you and says, hey, you don't say, oh, my God, what's wrong with you?
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:06.699
Don't talk like that.
00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:08.639
Just say, oh, OK, let's talk about it.
00:27:09.099 --> 00:27:10.500
So just, yeah, you don't have to judge it.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.779
You don't you don't have to agree with what they're saying either.
00:27:13.959 --> 00:27:15.419
Sometimes you just have to hold space.
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:16.259
Yeah.
00:27:16.579 --> 00:27:17.939
And just let them talk it out.
00:27:18.339 --> 00:27:39.939
And then, of course, if you think they are critical, you know, go, you know, get an adult or a student, you know, like at the school accounts or something involved, I'm not saying just let them, you know, get in a car and drive away per say, because you have to kind of but it's not your responsibility to save them either, I don't think because that's what the burden of survivors is, is we didn't save them a lot.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:40.399
Yes.
00:27:40.719 --> 00:27:45.679
The burden of and you named it earlier is the burden of we didn't save them.
00:27:45.979 --> 00:27:48.759
The thing of like, wasn't I good enough to keep them here?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.659
Didn't they didn't they love me enough to stay for me?
00:27:51.659 --> 00:27:58.000
You know, those types of thoughts, which lead to lead to guilt, feelings of inadequacy.
00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:06.979
And that really complicates being able to deal with your own grief, which is hard enough when you're dealing with without those complicating factors.
00:28:07.439 --> 00:28:12.179
Right now, the way to cut a shed of and also the why is the why is what really haunts.
00:28:12.179 --> 00:28:12.459
Yeah.
00:28:12.619 --> 00:28:17.619
The why, why, you know, and especially if no note is left, none of mine left notes.
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.459
So sometimes the notes are good, sometimes are not.
00:28:20.459 --> 00:28:24.259
So I usually teach people is we just have to they were sick.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.339
We're not going to ever know why.
00:28:26.419 --> 00:28:30.379
Just like if someone gets cancer, how do they get cancer?
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:32.939
Yeah, we don't focus on that.
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:34.659
We just know that they got cancer.
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:38.500
They may have, you know, things in their life could have contribute to it.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:39.059
But who knows?
00:28:39.159 --> 00:28:44.819
We don't know that because, again, I have people in my family that have smoked for, you know, 40 years and they're alive.
00:28:45.459 --> 00:28:58.159
So I just I think the judgment on all diseases, especially suicide, I think if we just kind of erase the judgment and just know that this person is no longer here and celebrate them for how they lived is what I like to do.
00:28:58.579 --> 00:29:03.959
Talk about the things they they contribute to it, not, you know, what they kind of took away from people.
00:29:04.679 --> 00:29:05.579
They were just sick.
00:29:05.719 --> 00:29:06.119
Yeah.
00:29:07.379 --> 00:29:15.319
As someone who works with people who have passed in all different kinds of ways, I could say the questions of why come up almost every way.
00:29:15.439 --> 00:29:22.240
Anyway, people die, whether it's cancer, car accident, you know, drugs, whatever, and even guilt comes up in all different kinds of things.
00:29:22.339 --> 00:29:34.719
It's a really irrational thing that we go through, we put ourselves through, but it comes particularly with suicide loss because we have this idea that it could have been prevented, that it should have been prevented.
00:29:35.159 --> 00:29:38.459
And we don't we don't attribute that to other things usually, right?
00:29:38.899 --> 00:29:42.240
But it just becomes so much more heightened with with suicide.
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:50.439
And so the thing about grief is and you talk about your your lupus diagnosis, which you believe was because of your your grief.
00:29:51.159 --> 00:29:55.959
And we talked about trauma, the body remembers trauma, the grief got stuck in the body and stuff like that.
00:29:56.339 --> 00:30:01.719
And this is a literal thing with you where it's like it got stuck and it caused, you know, disease.
00:30:03.199 --> 00:30:18.179
So tell me how you said you kind of figured out you started doing some things like, this is the way I can process that because that's, after doing this for so many years, I've realized that grief has to be processed, that's the metabolize, as they work through, otherwise, it gets stuck in our body can cause different things.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.639
So how did you start to work through that, getting that out?
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:46.819
Again, by doing yoga, meditation, all of that, I didn't know the science around it now, like I do, because I have since, you know, studied it, whatever, because our body is made to heal, everything on our body has a purpose like our eyes, we have hundreds of meridians in our eyes, just rolling your eyes, rewires neural pathways, so we every so I teach people, and that's what I figured out.
00:30:47.319 --> 00:31:15.359
Again, it's like, with my encyclopedia is way back then, that, you know, everything on the body is made to heal part of you, like, I think what's going on with suicide back, and what I finally figured out when I started studying all of this is suicide is a trigger for people because in our subconscious, we have like 60 to 70,000 thoughts a day triggers we think about and it comes back from our childhood programming, a lot of it is our formative years childhood.
00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:24.579
So when we come into this world, most people are raised that, you know, old people die, members of child, you know, we all thought, okay, old people die, right?
00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:28.199
So one of our friends was in a car accident, a young age, that was kind of like tragic.
00:31:28.199 --> 00:31:35.779
So we are taught the way people die, we are not taught that people die by suicide, we are taught, it's a sense of religious stuff.
00:31:36.139 --> 00:31:40.819
So that's what's in a lot of our subconscious, and that's what really helped me the most when I figured that out.
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:43.000
Through my research, I didn't figure it out.
00:31:43.379 --> 00:31:44.839
I studied other sciences and stuff.
00:31:45.979 --> 00:31:53.779
And when I started using the tools like EFT to rewire those, to reprogram myself, and again, my parents did not harm me.
00:31:54.399 --> 00:31:55.199
It's just what they're taught.
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:59.439
So we have all this generational programming in our subconscious, and that's who makes us who we are.
00:31:59.919 --> 00:32:05.439
So when you start, you know, figuring out how to do that, that's what EFT does, it rewires just neural pathways.
00:32:05.439 --> 00:32:11.079
So I've become to understand that it's just a part of, you know, it's part of life, it's how people die.
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:29.059
So I think if we could get rid of the word suicide, because suicide is a trigger for most of us, because you know, it's in, in the Bibles, and it's in different places that it's, you know, it's a sin, and it's, you know, because it's, you know, the word commit, we have since, you know, dismissed that for some people, but that just means they did something wrong.
00:32:29.379 --> 00:32:34.579
And I don't think my loved ones did anything wrong, they lived, and they died, and we're here to die.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:50.559
But that's what I like to teach people is to kind of, you know, that's what's, you know, why you're thinking that it's not because they did something wrong, they're not grieving properly, we have to dismiss that, that, that stigma for it.
00:32:50.959 --> 00:32:56.779
But yeah, so I started doing like I said, yoga, I started changing the way I eat, how I talk.
00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:04.719
I started, you know, focused on the positive, because we also have what's called the rectangular activating system, as our brain filter.
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:17.759
So we're, we're basically humans, we, because of cavemen, we are predisposed to negative thoughts, because back then, they had to be always on alert for survival.
00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:26.959
So we all have that, we think it's like 49% negative thoughts every single day, unless you change that, because we can change that too.
00:33:27.259 --> 00:33:31.159
So I started learning about the rectangular activating system, and that what I focus on expands.
00:33:31.879 --> 00:33:38.719
So I kept focusing on, you know, the stigma, the crime, you know, they did it themselves, I wasn't going to heal.
00:33:38.959 --> 00:33:41.899
So by shifting that, it's easier.
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.519
It takes work, but it's fairly easy to do.
00:33:45.699 --> 00:33:53.299
And I know this sounds technical, some people, people, people come to me, they're like, this is hard, but I teach them very simple tools and how to do that.
00:33:53.399 --> 00:34:00.719
So when you start working on those parts of our bodies, you'll be surprised how you can come out the other end of this and anything in life.
00:34:01.059 --> 00:34:02.939
So again, death is hard.
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:04.559
Like you said, you work with all types of death.
00:34:04.699 --> 00:34:06.219
So death is a death is a part of life.
00:34:06.219 --> 00:34:13.300
So we can start rewiring our subconscious and our training that suicide is a choice.
00:34:14.240 --> 00:34:16.760
Suicide is something they wanted to do.
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:19.719
I mean, all of that, just like a car accident.
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.760
They wanted to get in the car, they want us to drive.
00:34:23.139 --> 00:34:26.840
But we don't say, oh my god, you know, they shouldn't have been driving here, there, whatever.
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:31.880
We just know because again, in our wiring, we expect people to die by car accidents.
00:34:32.740 --> 00:34:32.980
Make sense?
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:34.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:35.199
It makes sense.
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:40.360
And I do a lot of what you're talking about with my clients is trying to help people reframe their thoughts.
00:34:40.539 --> 00:34:43.740
And I studied something called positive intelligence.
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:47.860
We talked about that, that I, you know, having the positive versus negative thoughts.
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:51.340
Most of us have a large percent of our thoughts are negative.
00:34:51.740 --> 00:35:07.740
And according to the science that this guy came up with, it's like, we need to switch that to like two positive thoughts for every negative thought that we have to really, to really start to spiral up as opposed to spiraling down because we have negative thoughts, negative thoughts create more negative thoughts.
00:35:08.179 --> 00:35:14.519
So it's, it's a matter of trying to catch when we're having those negative thoughts and flip them the other way.
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:19.880
And you know, you talked a lot about the neuroscience of our bodies and the way our brains are wired.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.480
And you said people can say this gets really technical.
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:24.360
I'm an engineer, so it doesn't bother me.
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:31.280
I try to keep it simple for people, but just like understand you're predisposed to this and it's not helping you.
00:35:31.579 --> 00:35:34.179
Your brain is wired to, to keep you alive.
00:35:34.179 --> 00:35:36.780
It's not wired to make you happy or make you fulfilled.
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:40.420
So you've got to break that program that you talked about.
00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:50.000
And the only way to do that is through some of these techniques, you know, yoga, through doing EFT, through doing meditation, you know, mindfulness, through doing gratitude practice.
00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:56.659
I, I tell people you've got to focus on what's going well, because life is always a mixed bag.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:58.360
There's always good things, bad things.
00:35:58.820 --> 00:36:01.320
If you focus on the bad things, that's all you're going to see.
00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:02.019
Absolutely.
00:36:02.420 --> 00:36:03.199
And we have to focus on that.
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:04.240
We're still alive.
00:36:04.420 --> 00:36:05.420
We still have a life to live.
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:07.900
And I know my loved ones want me to continue.
00:36:08.179 --> 00:36:13.940
They would not want me to, you know, just give up and basically live a very sad life.
00:36:14.500 --> 00:36:15.300
So I think it's a choice.
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.139
People have to choose.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.579
I don't think suicide is a choice, but I think healing is a choice.
00:36:18.940 --> 00:36:22.820
And so I like to teach people is they have to just dive in.
00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:24.019
It's going to take time.
00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:25.619
I mean, it's a process for everybody.
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:26.760
I think it's a personal process.
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.280
So I don't think there's, because people always ask me, because typically suicide has been known.
00:36:32.499 --> 00:36:35.180
A lot of research has basically a seven year journey.
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:45.579
And so when people hear that, they know, but it doesn't have to be that it's just, you know, research and there's more tools today that are more widely talked about.
00:36:45.700 --> 00:36:46.480
We've always had the tools.
00:36:46.539 --> 00:36:47.599
We just didn't know we had them.
00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:57.900
So I think if people just start doing a little research on things that they can do with themselves, you know, with their own bodies, you don't have to go out and you don't have a lot of money for therapy.
00:36:59.640 --> 00:37:02.240
There's ways you can do it yourself too, if you need to.
00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:06.880
It's interesting you mentioned the seven year journey because I was just recently thinking about this.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:13.320
I've studied a lot of people that have had near death experiences and I've interviewed a lot of people who've had them and stuff like that.
00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:20.320
And PMH Atwater said it takes the average adult seven to 14 years to integrate their near death experience.
00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:23.539
So I'm like, it's what came in is like grief.
00:37:24.340 --> 00:37:28.240
And I'm not particularly suicide, but grief is a spiritual transformative experience.
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.240
It changes who we are, changes our body.
00:37:31.680 --> 00:37:34.620
You are like a literally different person after you've lost someone.
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:37.640
So that experience takes a while to integrate.
00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:40.740
Well, not whether it's seven years or not, you know, it can be different.
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.740
It's gonna be different for everybody.
00:37:42.380 --> 00:37:45.160
But we tend to want to rush through grief.
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.579
We want to like get back to who we were, we want to get over it.
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.240
And it's a process.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.320
And it's a journey that we have to go through.
00:37:52.420 --> 00:37:59.920
So when I hear you say that, it doesn't mean it's this is like a diagnosis or a sentence that for seven years, you're going to be, you know, terrible.
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:02.700
But it's going to take you a while to integrate it.
00:38:02.860 --> 00:38:03.240
Right.
00:38:03.660 --> 00:38:05.519
And so as I tell people, it's a personal journey.
00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:08.620
I think, again, I lost my nephew in 2022.
00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:10.059
And I'm here.
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:11.980
Yeah, I'm living life.
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:13.500
I'm celebrating how we live.
00:38:13.660 --> 00:38:17.019
So again, I've been doing it for a long time too, you know, right.
00:38:17.019 --> 00:38:18.720
Yeah, you've had some experience.
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:19.360
Right.
00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:24.620
But it doesn't have to be so I usually tell people just focus on your experience, how you're feeling.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:25.140
Exactly.
00:38:25.660 --> 00:38:28.960
You know, just because someone else is, we don't know what their life is.
00:38:29.120 --> 00:38:38.160
If it took them 14 years, there's a lot of stories when people come to me on my friend, you know, she lost someone suicide 14 years ago, and she's still like, well, you're not your friend.
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:39.099
You don't know.
00:38:39.980 --> 00:38:40.620
Don't judge.
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:45.539
I'm not judging her friend, but we don't know their, their personal experience or their beliefs are who they are.
00:38:45.579 --> 00:38:49.559
So I think it's just a personal journey that we should openly talk about.
00:38:49.700 --> 00:38:53.360
And that's why survivors, I think that's the worst thing is that they're afraid to talk about it.
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.860
And still, I know many that are still telling their friends, their husband had a heart attack because of religious beliefs or stuff.
00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:04.920
And that's also, I don't push them to talk about it, but they have to find their way to get it out.
00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:08.220
So that shame is what keeps us from moving forward, I think.
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:08.940
Yeah.
00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:10.340
And I love what you said.
00:39:10.620 --> 00:39:15.940
We're not, we don't, if you feel uncomfortable talking about it, we're not pushing anybody to do anything they feel uncomfortable with.
00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:30.380
But on the other hand, the more people who do talk about it, that's, that's what gets rid of the shame when we can openly talk about it and not, not be ashamed and say, yes, people do pass by suicide.
00:39:31.059 --> 00:39:33.220
And there's, it doesn't mean that they're a bad person.
00:39:33.220 --> 00:39:34.300
Certainly not at all.
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.380
It doesn't mean that they send or that God doesn't love them.
00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:45.720
It's just, you know, as you said, it's, it's a way of passing the way I look at it from, I think from spirit perspective, you said it a little while ago, we're all going to die.
00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:51.980
And I think when we get back to the, where we came from, no one's judging like, how, oh, you died this way.
00:39:52.099 --> 00:39:53.740
That's a terrible, that's, that's a bad thing.
00:39:53.780 --> 00:39:56.240
It's like, we'll have to leave our bodies some way.
00:39:56.500 --> 00:40:06.180
And you mentioned someone earlier who's a mutual friend and I won't say the name, but even in the spiritual community, I've had a lot of people say, well, everything in life is planned.
00:40:06.180 --> 00:40:09.559
We have a soul plan, everything, everything except suicide.
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:14.140
And I'm like, well, why would you say except suicide?
00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:16.800
Because we're still carving that one thing out, right?
00:40:17.300 --> 00:40:20.900
It's the only you know, drug addiction, that's planned, right?
00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:25.340
You were in an accident, you know, that's but suicide is not planned.
00:40:25.420 --> 00:40:28.740
And I think that's, that's just holding on to that old stigma that we have.
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:29.579
Right.
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:30.599
And I disagree with that.
00:40:30.700 --> 00:40:33.400
I do think it was probably their time.
00:40:33.820 --> 00:40:34.160
Yeah.
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:34.860
Yeah.
00:40:34.900 --> 00:40:47.620
Because when I look back on the ones I lost, they live life to the fullest, all of them, all of them, he had my nephew, at the age of 10, started a long service that grew into this huge landscaping business.
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:54.559
So when he passed at 24, I have never seen so many people at a service in my life from all walks of life that he touched.
00:40:55.160 --> 00:40:55.260
Yeah.
00:40:55.720 --> 00:40:57.280
I thought, how amazing is this?
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:03.519
Because he was always like a go getter, just very involved with people and helping people at a very young age.
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:07.860
So looking back on that, I thought, wow, this was just his mission, because he did leave a mark on the world.
00:41:08.640 --> 00:41:09.640
What was the same way?
00:41:09.720 --> 00:41:23.039
So I think if people really look at their loved one for how they lived, and not how they died, they're going to, they're going to see that, you know, suicide doesn't define them because society has made us look at their death more than we should.
00:41:24.160 --> 00:41:27.360
I'm so glad you said that my daughter was 15 when she passed.
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:30.720
And you know, people say it was a tragedy because her life was cut short.
00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:34.120
And I'm like, I think that's how long her life was supposed to be.
00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:36.660
We know what is what is a life?
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:38.099
Is it 15 years?
00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:38.960
Is it 60 years?
00:41:39.099 --> 00:41:39.900
90 years?
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.360
Everybody feels like their life was cut short when they get to that that point.
00:41:44.420 --> 00:41:50.420
But the idea and I've heard against people in spiritual circles say, Oh, if you take your own life, you'll have to come back.
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:52.880
You have to come back and learn the lessons you didn't learn.
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:54.360
Why?
00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:54.800
Why?
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:59.220
Why if you take your own life at 15 versus if you died in a car accident at 15?
00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:01.480
What's what's the difference?
00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:05.420
So this idea that there's a certain way of passing, that's the right way.
00:42:05.860 --> 00:42:07.579
I don't, I don't agree with that.
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.079
And I think it goes back to the programing from their childhood.
00:42:11.240 --> 00:42:13.300
So they just look at that and try to work on that.
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:25.120
That's why even my first thing I do with my survivors is we work on that we, we rewire that they're, they're programming because that's the way, you know, because they're, they're parents who program the same way.
00:42:25.160 --> 00:42:26.599
So we have this whole ancestral lineage.
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:32.539
So that's why I try to tell people just to look at how they really feel about it.
00:42:32.539 --> 00:42:39.180
Because sometimes it's those triggers that keep us from, you know, expanding our, our thought process.
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:40.140
And that's what I did.
00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:45.400
You know, I was the only person in my very large family that told people how we died, how my uncle died.
00:42:46.740 --> 00:42:49.460
Because I knew I had to, because I wasn't ashamed of him.
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.000
I was never upset with them.
00:42:51.380 --> 00:42:53.420
I've never been ashamed of any of them.
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.059
I'm sad they're not here, but I'm also grateful they're not in pain.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:42:59.059
Yeah.
00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:02.120
There's one thing I always thought because I didn't know my nephew was struggling.
00:43:02.539 --> 00:43:06.320
Um, and that was one of my hardest things to deal with.
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:13.660
And I thought about, I used to ask myself at the time, if he was still here, what was one thing I would say to him and I would tell him, I'll take your pain.
00:43:14.019 --> 00:43:15.079
So that's what I've actually done.
00:43:15.180 --> 00:43:16.000
We have taken their pain.
00:43:16.820 --> 00:43:19.059
Um, and we've released it from them.
00:43:19.099 --> 00:43:20.440
It's how I like to look at this.
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:26.660
What's helped me heal because they were in a lot of pain when that happened and their body just couldn't withstand it anymore.
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:29.860
Yeah, that's, that's the way I look at it also.
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.980
And, and the thing is, you know, this world is, it's a difficult place to be.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:36.900
It's, it's a painful world.
00:43:37.099 --> 00:43:43.079
And I think a lot of people who, who do pass by suicide, the pain is just too much.
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:47.539
It's, it's, uh, I think we're the ones that are messed up because we can live with it.
00:43:47.620 --> 00:43:49.340
We, we, we just got to put it aside.
00:43:49.460 --> 00:44:00.640
And these people that feel very deeply, you know, we talked about Robin Williams, I think about, um, uh, Chester Bennington, uh, Lincoln Park, um, you know, super, super sensitive guy.
00:44:00.640 --> 00:44:07.019
And you would look at him and say, you know, it was, it was the height of his career and family and, you know, kids and stuff.
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.900
But there's just so much pain going on.
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:14.539
I think that people like that take on themselves so it becomes overwhelming.
00:44:15.380 --> 00:44:15.480
Right.
00:44:15.980 --> 00:44:23.740
Again, we will, I don't think we'll ever know that, but I do think it's just something I think it's pretty dispensed for a lot of them because they do, they live and my brother was the same way.
00:44:23.980 --> 00:44:25.039
He was a high achiever.
00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:26.960
Um, these weren't sad.
00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:37.260
And that's why I think also the stigma comes becoming, you know, movies and stuff portray people that died by suicide, you know, as sad, lonely, no jobs, drug addiction.
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:44.039
I mean, all of that sometimes has a big part of what people think about suicide because, you know, that's how movies tend to portray it.
00:44:44.620 --> 00:44:46.220
Um, and that's just not true.
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:47.360
It's just not true.
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:50.140
Um, you know, there are people just like us.
00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:50.780
Yeah.
00:44:51.160 --> 00:44:53.740
We never know what's going to hit us just like, you know, any other disease.
00:44:54.019 --> 00:44:56.340
So that's my goal and, and life.
00:44:56.539 --> 00:45:05.019
I think that's why I'm now carrying all of this, um, and helping people is because I want people to understand that, um, it doesn't do with them.
00:45:05.240 --> 00:45:06.039
Their person was sick.
00:45:06.700 --> 00:45:07.059
Yeah.
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:08.320
They didn't do anything wrong.
00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:11.340
I don't think they, I don't, we don't know if they could have saved them.
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:13.420
Obviously they couldn't because I think it would have happened.
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:20.400
Like I said, I have two siblings that I saved, but then I wasn't there, you know, I didn't save my nephew.
00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:22.099
So we'll never know why that happened.
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:24.200
Um, and why we're still here.
00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:25.039
Yeah.
00:45:25.120 --> 00:45:28.400
Well, there is this human tendency to want to apply blame.
00:45:28.900 --> 00:45:32.680
Um, I don't exactly know where it comes from or why it is.
00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:34.200
I just know it's not really helpful.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:39.300
Um, and I see people, I didn't, I see people doing it with all sorts of, of, of deaths.
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:47.360
Um, and, but the one where I guess it's so easy to do and accept it is when it comes to like suicide.
00:45:47.780 --> 00:45:53.059
And so what I want to say to people that are going through that, I've, I've had parents who have bosses.
00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:57.280
I, I have a woman, a woman I talked to her daughter was killed by a drunk driver.
00:45:57.420 --> 00:46:01.940
Her daughter was grown, wasn't even with her, but didn't even live with her, was killed by a drunk driver.
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:08.640
And this woman blamed herself and came up with seven reasons why I heard seven things she did wrong the day her daughter passed away.
00:46:09.140 --> 00:46:12.200
And I use that as an example of that tendency to blame ourselves.
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:22.880
And again, when it comes to suicide, you've got that and then you've got other people actually either implicitly or explicitly blaming you also like your husband took his life.
00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:24.320
Why do you know what's happening?
00:46:24.500 --> 00:46:25.940
What did you do to contribute to it?
00:46:26.300 --> 00:46:28.099
You know, you've, you've got that, that feeling.
00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:33.120
So it's, um, it's something we really, really have to fight with the truth.
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:34.280
And that's what you're talking about.
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:40.780
Like all these techniques to help us to understand that this is not our fault, that first of all, no one's at fault.
00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:42.539
That's that's the thing.
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.700
It's like no one's at fault.
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.760
So stop trying to find somewhere to put this blame.
00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:48.079
Absolutely.
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:53.559
And I mean, there's, I mean, the biggest message I can tell people is you can't heal.
00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:55.240
You can't get through this.
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.920
You know, we're, we're made to endure a lot of pain in life.
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:02.780
I mean, we're humans, you know, it's pretty amazing how our bodies are made to withstand this.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:06.180
So you can't, you can get through it.
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:07.559
I mean, I've done it four times.
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:09.720
Now I have a lot of clients that have done it.
00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:21.880
And like you with what you're doing with your work, but people don't think they can do that with suicide for some reason, because society has told them our society, you know, shame is the biggest, you know, the worst emotion we can feel from a nervous standpoint.
00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:30.260
So it's that shame that keeps survivors stuck is because, um, yeah, I mean the comments I've had when my nephew passed in 2022.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.480
Um, I wrote, I wrote his obituary with permission of his parents, my sister and her husband.
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.280
We wanted people to know how he died.
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:40.079
We, because we're not ashamed of this.
00:47:40.180 --> 00:47:41.960
I put it on Facebook as obituary.
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:44.079
We wanted his friends to know, et cetera.
00:47:44.140 --> 00:47:54.700
I had got so many messages of people, you know, accusing me of this horrible thing of saying how he died by suicide.
00:47:55.160 --> 00:47:58.400
I took my page, I take my Facebook page and I had over 10,000 friends.
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:08.740
I got hundreds of, and I know these people, hundreds of messages because they thought, why are you wanting to, you know, put this out there publicly because he's my nephew and he died.
00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:10.000
Yeah.
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:10.680
Yeah.
00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:12.099
I didn't highlight the suicide.
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:16.160
We just said that, you know, he lost his life, you know, lost the battle or whatever.
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:19.440
And, um, I was just so surprised with that.
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.920
And this was in 2022.
00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:28.539
And so I took my page down because I thought, I'm not going to be ashamed of him, but I wasn't going to, you know, spiral even deeper.
00:48:28.720 --> 00:48:38.700
So I think social media plays a big part of a lot of stuff too, because my nephew, my sister said, because he was struggling in a couple of weeks before he left.
00:48:39.220 --> 00:48:48.780
Um, he took all of the socials down because he was starting to feel like, you know, people didn't like him because he was thinking it was distorted because he would post something and people weren't saying anything.
00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:54.500
So I mean, I'm not saying that caused him to, he was obviously struggling, but some little things like that.
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:56.260
But yeah, I was so surprised with that in 2022.
00:48:56.500 --> 00:49:01.840
So I thought, okay, I'm not going to let this define how he lived because I, we now celebrate how he lived.
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:04.500
We're having his birthday is May 22nd.
00:49:04.579 --> 00:49:07.480
So we're having a big party for him with his friends at his favorite brewery.
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:09.099
And so we do that.
00:49:09.380 --> 00:49:16.140
We celebrate how we lived, not how we died and people kind of, um, and we have a lot of people coming to that.
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.360
So that's why I teach my clients too, as we don't let it, we don't have to let it define us.
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:31.700
It doesn't, you know, and, and I've heard people that come through from the other side, through meetings and stuff and say, stop focusing on the way I pass out of this world and focus on the way that I've lived, right?
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:34.500
That you're using that one moment to define them.
00:49:34.579 --> 00:49:38.440
And again, a lot of us get caught up in that, you know, people want to know how did they die?
00:49:38.620 --> 00:49:40.579
Did, you know, you know, what was it like at the very end?
00:49:40.579 --> 00:49:42.059
What was like, what was that last moment like?
00:49:42.180 --> 00:49:45.940
And it's there, we have an entire life that we've lived with that person.
00:49:46.260 --> 00:49:48.780
We don't have to focus on, on that one thing.
00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:54.840
And, you know, I also want to say this to people who have lost someone who's suicidal and feel like you're being shunned.
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.360
It happens to anybody that loses a child.
00:49:58.340 --> 00:50:02.079
It's not everybody that shunned you, but you lose people.
00:50:02.260 --> 00:50:08.140
I haven't talked, I don't think I might yet that doesn't lose someone because people, it's like they think it's contagious.
00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:10.000
And they'll ask you a lot of questions.
00:50:10.099 --> 00:50:11.200
Well, how did she die?
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:13.079
And, you know, did you know about it?
00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:17.599
Because, because they feel like there's like the superstition, like something's going to happen to their kid.
00:50:17.980 --> 00:50:18.460
I don't know.
00:50:18.579 --> 00:50:19.660
I can't really explain it.
00:50:20.019 --> 00:50:24.000
But people don't know how to be around people that are in grief in general.
00:50:24.640 --> 00:50:30.059
And again, multiply that by whatever, when you talk about someone who's lost some of the suicide.
00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:32.480
So people are like, oh, why would you say that?
00:50:32.620 --> 00:50:42.420
Because there's this fear, like if, if you know that so and so passed by suicide, then you might do it, you know, like you're going to get the idea and do and do what they did.
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:43.940
And that's not the way it works.
00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:47.860
I'm glad you mentioned that a lot of people think if you talk about suicide, it's going to give them the idea.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:48.400
That's not true.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:59.019
And that's why the comment when I was mentioning when people, you know, say they're struggling, you know, just listen, you know, the belief system has been if you let them talk about it, it's going to make them do it.
00:50:59.140 --> 00:51:00.059
It's not, that's not true.
00:51:00.640 --> 00:51:00.740
Yeah.
00:51:01.059 --> 00:51:02.220
They need to talk about it.
00:51:02.240 --> 00:51:06.500
Just think when you want to talk about stuff, I mean, that's how we communicate.
00:51:06.980 --> 00:51:09.380
And that's how we heal this through community.
00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:16.599
So when you don't have that community to talk to, I'm not saying that causes them to die.
00:51:17.160 --> 00:51:19.900
But I just think it's I think it's many different things.
00:51:19.940 --> 00:51:21.500
And it's just like a perfect storm.
00:51:21.740 --> 00:51:26.140
Well, I think I think sometimes talking about is people reaching out for help.
00:51:26.620 --> 00:51:31.740
And you mentioned your client who, who, um, used the gun and ended up paralyzed.
00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:35.980
You know, we people, they try to reach out for help in ways.
00:51:36.180 --> 00:51:46.519
And then we, as we said earlier, we either ignore it and dismiss it or we say, don't talk about that, you know, because we feel like talking about something is going to cause it to happen, which is exactly the opposite.
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.940
We, we need to be witnessed.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:57.440
We need to have our pain witness and people sometimes talking about it can maybe help them fight that urge, just being able to express it and to be understood.
00:51:58.180 --> 00:52:03.660
And to know that they're not alone because then they're talking about, you might say, well, you know what, I have felt that way before myself.
00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:04.340
Yeah.
00:52:04.660 --> 00:52:08.940
Um, and they, it just humanizes the situation and makes them feel heard.
00:52:09.460 --> 00:52:21.700
So, you know, I don't know if that's going to save everybody, but I know again, I have many people that have attempted and they've never attempted again because after it happened, they were able to talk about it.
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:23.140
They were able to get the support they needed.
00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:26.960
And now like my, my siblings, the two, um, they're well now.
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:33.240
So, and that's why I think also people think, you know, the confusion with suicide is okay.
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:37.840
How's people survive and some don't, but same thing with cancer, some people survive and some don't.
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.920
So I just think we need to start treating all disease equally.
00:52:41.140 --> 00:52:41.620
Yeah.
00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:46.760
Um, because they all have different, different ways and different characteristics.
00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:48.880
And we don't know how anything happens to anybody.
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:55.220
Typically because again, you get a smoker that smokes for 60 years and never gets cancer and someone that's never smoked that gets cancer.
00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:01.800
So that's what I like to, you know, that's what's helped me the most in my journey is to kind of dismiss all of that.
00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:05.440
Bloomington beliefs that we've been given.
00:53:05.660 --> 00:53:14.800
And also, um, you've mentioned people don't like to see people in pain because as children, at least in my generation, I have clients, they all agree we're told not to cry.
00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:17.200
We would get in trouble for crying.
00:53:17.640 --> 00:53:17.740
Yes.
00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:20.039
I would hide gets into my room for crying.
00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:25.700
So we've grown up to feel like having emotions are not healthy.
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:32.980
So I encourage people to cry because tears, we were given tears as are, you know, to cleanse is, you know, that's why you feel better when you cry.
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:40.559
So I do think that something, another thing that has stunted, um, the growth of a lot of people is stuff like that.
00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:51.920
That's your childhood programming or maybe you can adult program, but most of it comes from your childhood because our parents were taught that, um, from their parents and we're taught like, if you see someone crying in public, um, most people like, oh my God, why are you crying?
00:53:52.140 --> 00:53:52.559
Quit crying.
00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:53.660
Let them cry.
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:55.599
Yeah, we're allowed to cry.
00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:57.900
Um, so I just think it's interesting.
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.579
Um, as humans, what, what we're taught and how we carry it through life.
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:06.099
And but yeah, you mentioned that, you know, death changes people.
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:07.880
Suicide has totally changed my life.
00:54:08.220 --> 00:54:10.180
And I think I'm a better person because of it.
00:54:10.220 --> 00:54:13.200
Um, because I don't take anything for granted.
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:16.220
I am more, I live in the present moment now.
00:54:17.140 --> 00:54:24.559
Um, I've listened to people, I try to keep a positive mindset about things because it can happen to any of us.
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:27.740
So I do think there's a silver lining with all of death.
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:30.180
And that's why I remind people that I've lost someone to suicide.
00:54:30.340 --> 00:54:33.579
If you really work on it, look deep, you're going to find that.
00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:36.260
And I'm not just saying I'm glad mine aren't here.
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.019
I would take them back in a minute.
00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:45.400
Um, but yeah, I think I'm a much, and most people that have gone through, like you're saying with your daughter, um, you've come out the other side.
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:48.960
I do think there's a reason sometimes that we are tasked.
00:54:49.200 --> 00:54:51.240
We all have a journey and that this is my journey.
00:54:52.800 --> 00:55:02.940
I, um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't not want to be on it because I, I want it to be with my loved ones too, because if I would say I never wanted to have this happen, it's like saying, I didn't want these four people in my life.
00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:03.500
Exactly.
00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:04.300
Yeah.
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:04.700
Exactly.
00:55:05.019 --> 00:55:07.480
You got to take the good with the bad, um, stuff with anything in life.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.200
So I do think that's important for people.
00:55:10.099 --> 00:55:13.440
Um, and if anyone's listening that are having thoughts, talk to somebody.
00:55:13.860 --> 00:55:15.280
They're not bad thoughts.
00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:16.860
They're just thoughts.
00:55:18.099 --> 00:55:18.660
Um, and you're human.
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:23.059
So we're allowed to have negative negative feelings and thoughts because that's just part of who we are.
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:23.720
Yeah.
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:24.200
Yeah.
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:26.820
I, I think, I think the thoughts are, are very normal.
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:42.480
I think we, I think we, I, I, I don't like to say, make universal statements, but I think we all have them at some point, you know, it's just that some of us are better at like compartmentalizing them and realizing this is a temporary, this is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:52.400
As you said, a lot of times when I hear people who have attempted suicide or who've even completed suicide and come back through, through a medium, et cetera, they'll say, this is not what I meant to do.
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:53.920
I just wanted the pain to stop.
00:55:54.680 --> 00:55:59.420
Um, so it's, it is a way of, you know, I, I try to imagine what it's like.
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:04.019
It's like, I guess if there's like a super loud noise in your head that you could never get to stop, right?
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:06.280
And you would just do anything to get to stop.
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:16.340
And so they just want the quiet, but just want, they just want the peace and not realizing or not, not realizing, but not being able to really comprehend this is a permanent thing that I'm, that I'm doing here.
00:56:17.019 --> 00:56:25.160
Um, so again, no judgment is what I think where it comes down to me, but I, I want to really try to understand like, you know, this could be me too.
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:27.160
It's, it's not like this person is defective.
00:56:27.420 --> 00:56:29.000
There's nothing wrong with them.
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:30.680
It's just, it's this world's tough.
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:31.599
I don't know.
00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:33.480
I don't think we're ever going to understand it either.
00:56:34.180 --> 00:56:37.640
No, we just need to again, celebrate their life.
00:56:38.200 --> 00:56:38.300
Yeah.
00:56:38.460 --> 00:56:48.240
You know, take care of ourself and grieve, grieve properly because I have so many people, I have clients that I have a new client, but she lost her mother 60 years ago because she was, you know, six years ago, she wasn't going to talk about it.
00:56:48.340 --> 00:56:58.900
So now she's having a lot of physical stuff because it's, you know, she kind of forgot, not forgot about it, but, you know, she had kids, you know, like, that she's getting ready to retire.
00:56:59.059 --> 00:57:00.820
It's hit her that she never grieved her mother.
00:57:01.059 --> 00:57:02.180
So it's never too late to review.
00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:03.400
There's one thing mentioning that.
00:57:03.640 --> 00:57:08.079
So even if you lost somebody, you know, 60 years ago, it's not too late.
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:12.700
Um, it's just important because there's a lot of new technology out there.
00:57:12.700 --> 00:57:13.720
Well, it's not really new.
00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:20.280
It's stuff that we talk more about now techniques that are more um, more common for people like the somatic healing.
00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:21.559
Um, right.
00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:23.599
People are doing, I think you do some of that probably too.
00:57:23.740 --> 00:57:24.200
I do that.
00:57:24.620 --> 00:57:27.019
So people don't realize that there's stuff they can do.
00:57:27.539 --> 00:57:30.519
Um, if they're properly taught how to do it.
00:57:30.579 --> 00:57:35.900
And also a lot of people go on YouTube and try things and it doesn't work because I tell people that's a marketing tool.
00:57:36.099 --> 00:57:37.840
So don't say the tools don't work.
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:39.579
You know, find a professional to help you as well.
00:57:39.660 --> 00:57:42.579
I usually advise, uh, to make sure you're using it properly.
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.000
I mean, it's not going to hurt you, but that's me.
00:57:45.140 --> 00:57:46.420
People come to me especially about EFT.
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:48.700
Well, I tried on YouTube and didn't whatever.
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:52.760
I said, well, that YouTube video is just a marketing tool for a certain emotion.
00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:57.300
If you weren't having that emotion, that person on YouTube doesn't know what you're going through.
00:57:57.620 --> 00:58:06.760
So, um, I usually tell people don't judge it, um, until you, you know, and make it more personal for your, for your own journey, personalize it for yourself.
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:08.440
It's not canned is what I'm trying to say.
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:13.680
I think every survivor, every, you know, anyone for even any kind of death, I think we all have different paths.
00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:14.740
Absolutely.
00:58:15.220 --> 00:58:15.320
Yeah.
00:58:15.660 --> 00:58:17.920
And we have, and we have the choice to choose that path.
00:58:18.700 --> 00:58:22.220
Well, I know you've developed a lot of resources to help people.
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:28.039
Um, so tell people about what tools you have that they could find to, to help them.
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:29.059
I have a lot of workshops.
00:58:29.300 --> 00:58:33.160
I have an upcoming workshop actually, um, in June, um, Carla Fine.
00:58:33.780 --> 00:58:34.900
Have you heard of Carla?
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:35.599
I have not.
00:58:35.900 --> 00:58:36.000
No.
00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:38.720
She is, um, bestselling author.
00:58:39.120 --> 00:58:43.000
She wrote the book, No Times Say Goodbye, Surviving the Suicide of a Loved One.
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:44.940
Got the book in front of me is where I'm reading it.
00:58:45.260 --> 00:58:47.380
Um, she lost her husband back in 1989.
00:58:47.680 --> 00:58:54.640
So she's been a survivor a little more than I have, but she became actually the voice for suicide law survivors.
00:58:54.940 --> 00:58:57.620
Her, hers is basically the first book to talk about it.
00:58:57.860 --> 00:58:59.599
She says she even, because she's a writer.
00:58:59.900 --> 00:59:09.940
So when her husband, he was a prominent New York physician, top of his career, the least likely person to do it because, you know, again, he's a doctor, he's a healer.
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:12.660
So, and she had never been through anything like that before.
00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:21.500
So she went, you know, as a writer to find a book for herself, she found books on how to kill yourself, but couldn't find a book on how to survive suicide.
00:59:22.200 --> 00:59:27.320
So she wrote this book and it's now become like the, the Bible for survivors.
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:29.900
It's the, you know, the first book out there, but it's a very good book.
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:31.760
So she became like the first voice.
00:59:32.140 --> 00:59:39.380
So I'm doing a workshop with her, um, in June starts on June 9th, we're going to be, um, so writing workshop, talking about emotions and stuff.
00:59:39.539 --> 00:59:43.200
So that I do workshops like that with people that have been through it.
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:45.360
I do private sessions virtually.
00:59:45.780 --> 00:59:48.079
I have clients all over, all over the world.
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.320
Um, I teach tools, I have free support groups.
00:59:52.280 --> 01:00:00.440
Um, so yeah, if you go to my website, healing after suicide.net, I have a lot of resources and I have a private Facebook group enjoying that.
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:04.340
Um, cause I think that's another thing people don't want to tell their stories openly.
01:00:04.700 --> 01:00:06.800
So my stuff is usually pretty private.
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:16.320
Um, and even the groups, it's all survivors of suicide loss or, you know, it's a place that you can feel safe and not that they can't be out with people grieving.
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:17.500
It's just a different kind of grief.
01:00:17.680 --> 01:00:20.640
So people usually like that, um, that they have that privacy.
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:22.280
And I primarily work with women.
01:00:22.620 --> 01:00:25.360
I do have some men just because women grieve differently.
01:00:26.260 --> 01:00:29.300
So men don't typically find me.
01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:34.340
I just think it's an energy kind of thing, but I have worked with some men too, but my groups are primarily for women.
01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:35.559
Yeah.
01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:42.099
Well, my experience, most of my clients are women and I was, I, it's, it's really sad.
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:43.880
I think that men don't reach out for this.
01:00:44.220 --> 01:00:44.800
Is that what it is?
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:46.320
Is that men don't want, don't know how to heal.
01:00:46.660 --> 01:00:48.559
I think men don't really reach out for the side.
01:00:48.640 --> 01:00:52.420
That's the only conclusion I can come to after doing this for you know, 10 years.
01:00:52.700 --> 01:00:54.160
I was telling part of helping parents heal.
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:56.320
It's gotten, it's gotten better.
01:00:57.019 --> 01:01:00.519
Um, just to give you an example, helping parents heal that the organization are part of.
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:08.640
Um, I think our first conference was, I don't know, 85, 90% women, um, our conferences now, I guess are probably more like 60, 40.
01:01:09.019 --> 01:01:12.300
Um, still mostly women, but there, there are a lot more men coming.
01:01:12.820 --> 01:01:16.660
Um, and they're not just being dragged along like the first men were.
01:01:16.680 --> 01:01:24.500
So I, I think that is, that is getting better, but there is, I think there's still a lot of stigma with men being able to process, process grief.
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.000
Um, especially around crying men, men don't think they can cry either.
01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:37.700
I think as well, you know, it's funny, you mentioned crying earlier, one of the, I'll get on with a new client and they'll almost immediately, I always ask them to tell me about your loved one.
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:39.980
They'll start crying and they'll apologize for crying.
01:01:40.059 --> 01:01:41.880
And I'm like, no, crying is a good thing.
01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:43.980
Crying is the way that we release.
01:01:44.160 --> 01:01:46.079
As you said, we always feel better after we cry.
01:01:46.539 --> 01:01:50.280
That's, that's, that's our biology's way of processing this.
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:59.220
And your story, you know, with, with the lupus is an extreme example, but we hold grief in our bodies and we have to be able to release it.
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:01.559
Otherwise, it manifests in different ways.
01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:05.559
So it's it's finding out how do I, how do I process this?
01:02:05.640 --> 01:02:06.860
Not run from it.
01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:08.780
Not think this is a negative thought.
01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:09.680
This is negative emotion.
01:02:10.180 --> 01:02:11.960
But how do I process this and honor it?
01:02:12.980 --> 01:02:13.079
Absolutely.
01:02:14.599 --> 01:02:16.220
Well, Jane, we're coming to the end of our time.
01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:18.780
It's been great to have you here today.
01:02:19.220 --> 01:02:22.900
You've already given your website, but please give it again for anybody that might have missed it.
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:24.519
Healing after suicide.net.
01:02:25.220 --> 01:02:25.320
Yeah.
01:02:26.420 --> 01:02:29.360
How's I do, you know, free discovery sessions, all of that stuff.
01:02:29.500 --> 01:02:31.120
And I, I'm not a big sales type person.
01:02:31.380 --> 01:02:33.920
So I work with a lot of people that can't afford it.
01:02:34.640 --> 01:02:35.320
I also do that.
01:02:35.680 --> 01:02:40.599
So I don't want to get the help because of financial because right now, especially in our current economy, I know it's really tough.
01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:43.240
So you should have people just contact me personally.
01:02:43.240 --> 01:02:46.820
They feel like they need help, but can't afford it.
01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:47.760
Yeah, great.
01:02:47.960 --> 01:02:49.039
That sounds great.
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:51.440
So really, again, appreciate you being here this afternoon.
01:02:51.680 --> 01:02:52.640
Have a great rest of your day.
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:53.559
It's a pleasure.
01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:54.300
Thank you so much.