Optimizing Marriage: Daily Decisions That Keep You Connected | Ft Ashley Negron

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It's so easy to just like walk through life like
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side by side together without actually like being
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turned towards each other, if that makes sense.
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You know, you could think about it like you could
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be like on two individual little rafts in the
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river and you're holding hands and you're just
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side by side together, just kind of letting life
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happen for you. Without that intentionality,
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it's so easy to just kind of let life take you.
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where it will as you're riding side by side.
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And so I think it's really important to intentionally
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see each other every single day. Welcome to the
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Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and
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this show's all about sharing lessons, ideas,
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and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen
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your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort
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zones. Let's dive in. Alright, today's episode
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I'm really excited about because I am joined
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by my better half, Miss Ashley. Welcome to the
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show today. Hello, I'm excited. I'm excited too
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because we've been married for how long now?
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Since 2009. Yeah, it's probably better that you
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answer that. It's a really long time and we've
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known each other about a year before that. We
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thought it'd be great to talk about marriage.
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It's something that we're asked advice about
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a lot, aren't we? Yep. And so thought that maybe
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this would be a great episode to talk about how
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to optimize in your marriage, especially since
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we've been married long enough now to see other
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relationships hit their peaks and unfortunately
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do some other things like end in some really
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bad ways. And so this is definitely something
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that's close to you and I's hearts. to help people
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with their relationships. And yeah, so share
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a little bit about why this is a passionate topic
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for you, if you would. Yeah. Well, kind of like
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what you said, we've had so many, been long enough
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now that a lot of our friends are... hitting
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a point in their marriage where they are deciding
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they're unhappy or it's time to move on to something
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different. And so how do you keep from that happening?
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How do you keep from waking up one day and going,
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I'm unhappy. I don't know you. I don't know how
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we even got here. Like, what does it mean to
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not have that happen? And how do you, you know,
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ward against that? And so just want to, yeah,
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want to share some of the lessons that we've
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learned over the last 15 plus years and yeah,
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help, help others optimize their marriage as
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well. And, you know, I'm grateful that I genuinely
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can say like, you are my best friend and you're
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the person that I love spending time with. And
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so how do we help other people land in that boat
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as well? So, yeah. Well, I have to say ditto
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on that for sure. Yeah. So we're, like I said
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earlier, we're both super passionate about this.
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So today we plan on covering ways to be intentional.
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We think that intentionality is the theme of
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today's conversation, especially. So we will
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focus on ways to be intentional specifically,
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and then what kind of communication is helpful
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in that intentionality. And then at the end,
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we'll cover some things about how that plays
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into our faith and even gender roles, which is
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a more risky topic these days. But I think that's
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more relevant than ever, I would say. And probably
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we'll have you talk 100 % of that time, just
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so I'm not crushing your soul or whatever. So
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let's start out by talking about intentionality
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as a whole to introduce this. And so taking those
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daily steps towards each other, what is, talk
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to me a little bit about what, what that means
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from your point of view, Ashley. Yeah. So I think
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with that, you have to actively see the other
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person. You have to, it's so easy to just like
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walk through life, like side by side together
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without actually like being turned towards each
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other. If that makes sense. You know, you could
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think about it like. You could be like on two
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individual little rafts in the river and you're
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holding hands and you're just side by side together,
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just kind of letting life happen for you. And
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so without that intentionality, it's so easy
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to just kind of let life take you where it will
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as you're riding side by side. And so I think
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it's really important to intentionally see each
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other every single day. Now, that's going to
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look different. you know, what has, what works
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for us is going to be completely different than
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what works for other people. There's a reason
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that they're, huh? Right. Yes. Yeah. Potentially.
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You're right. Right. Yes. Yeah. So, um, you know,
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there's a reason that you see so many little
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like random memes on Instagram that talk about
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my love language is sending my spouse a million
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Instagram reels or memes a day. Right. And that's
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one little way that you can tell the other person
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that you're thinking about them or, oh, hey,
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I thought this was really funny. And I thought
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of you or, oh, my gosh, I can't wait to watch
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this together with you later. Right. Like, I
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think that you're going to find this hilarious
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and we're going to laugh, laugh together later.
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And so what are just those little things that
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you can intentionally do to tell your spouse
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that you see them? and that you're thinking about
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them. It just, yeah, it just takes stopping and
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little things every single day. I agree. I like
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the analogy you said earlier about a river current.
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And I think that is just a really great way to
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articulate even how people whose marriages aren't
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doing that well, they kind of start using that
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language, particularly when things go bad. They
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say things like, you know, I just feel like we've
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drifted apart. I don't know if I know that person
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anymore. They're not the person I married. That's
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a super common one. And I think that just that
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indicates even more so clearly that it's this
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kind of drift that can happen if you're not being
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intentional. And the way I view it even more
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so is that I do think it is like a river current
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in that. if you're not actively swimming against
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the current, it's taking you. And it's taking
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you not only maybe drifting apart, but also it
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may be taking you, it takes effort to grow together.
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I think when no effort is given, then you actually
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drift apart no matter what, right? And so I think
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that if that intentionality isn't given, that
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the natural result will be over time, right?
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We talk about on this show all the time that
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daily decisions, right? Daily anything changes
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everything. And so even in your marriage, if
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you think that everything's good and everyone's
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good to go and there's not that intentionality,
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then it'll drift away. And I love when we talked
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before the episode, you've done a lot of work
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in the nonprofit world. And you talk about how
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this can happen to a not -for -profit where they
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call it mission drift, right? Like three years
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down the line, they can recognize, hang on a
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minute, like this is not necessarily what we
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set out to do. This doesn't match our mission
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statement. And obviously sometimes that goes
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in a good direction, like unexpected, and you
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end up doing something different. And then other
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times it just can be a real crisis for a nonprofit
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trying to do good work. realizing that they're
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off mission, off track. So I agree. And you already
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mentioned some ways to be intentional, right,
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in the scheduling time together. So yeah, sending
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texts and memes and all those things. You and
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I also, we travel a lot, but to some people that
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have families, they'll be like, well, yeah, you
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guys don't have any kids. So obviously you have
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the freedom to go anywhere, everywhere at any
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point. But what would you say to... To those
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families that do have children, especially most
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of our friends do, it doesn't have to be big,
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right? How can you go small? Right. You know,
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you can just do a little like overnight Saturday,
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Sunday kind of thing. Or even like sending your
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kids somewhere else and staying home, right?
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Like it can be as simple as just having that
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time together or taking a drive on an evening.
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Nobody gets car sick, you know, those kinds of
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things as well. But it's, you know, some of our
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favorite times together and our best conversations
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together have been in the car because it's harder
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to be on your phone. It's harder, you know, you...
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Sometimes even it's better to have really hard
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conversations in the car because you don't have
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to be like face -to -face staring in each other's
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eyes deeply, right? That's right, yeah. That's
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a way to be able to like think and process together.
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Some of our best times of like dreaming of what
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we want the future to be or what some of our
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future goals look like, you know, where we're
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headed as a family have happened in those car
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rides or those times away. And so those things
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can be, they don't have to be. Be big and crazy.
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You know, we have a set of friends that they
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take one week is a family vacation that they
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take together with everybody. And then another
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week is just the two of them. And celebrating
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that time together and that time away. And so
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if that's something to obviously like finances
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play a role into that, who watches your kids,
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there's so many things that go into that. But
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if that's something that you can do, I highly
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recommend that. You know, we cherish those times
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away. We even take like games to play together
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so that we don't have to be on our phone. Also,
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like we tend to go and leave the country so that
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we don't have our phones and we, you know, or
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take a cruise when don't buy the Wi -Fi and those
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different kinds of things because it's. Again,
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it's that time away and disconnecting from the
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world around you and being able to go do fun
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things together, experiencing things together.
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We've taken some trips that have had some real
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logistical challenges to them. But actually,
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like, it was an incredible opportunity to see
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how far we had come as a couple together and
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to reflect back on like, oh, hey, like, think
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about like three year ago us and how we would
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have handled all of these challenges that happened
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on that specific trip and how we might have been
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at each other's throats and we might have been
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miserable together and how would we how we've
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grown through those times. And because we had
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been working on ourselves, which is a lot of
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the things that you talk about on here, because
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we had individually been working on ourselves
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when we came up against these logistical, what
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felt like challenge after challenge after challenge
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after challenge, right? We could navigate those
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well together. And so I think that those, it's
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hard to experience those in your every day -to
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-day life, if that makes sense. And so, yeah,
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taking trips is one of our favorite things to
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do together. I totally agree. And we had talked
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earlier about how finding fun activities together
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to do together is another one of the things that
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we do to connect. Sometimes I hear couples say,
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well, I mean, he's into he's into cars and he's
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into guns and like those are both super boring
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and, you know, and like whatever, you know. the
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the lady might be into might not be very interesting
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for the husband so what are what are some suggestions
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that you have or how have you gotten in like
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how we from your perspective found some of those
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things together yeah you know I think it's even
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as things as simple as like sometimes it's not
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the actual activity together but it's being in
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the same space while those activities are happening
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so You know, one of the things that you love
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to do is you have a sim racing set up in in one
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of our spare rooms. And, you know, that's something
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that you love to do. That's really like a one
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person kind of a thing. Right. And so I got a
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really fun reading chair and I sat next to you
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and I kind of out of the corner of my eye I'm
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watching, but I'm reading or I'm working on whatever
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it is that. research that i'm doing or i'm playing
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a game on my phone or whatever in that instance
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it's just the physical being together um that
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um is is a bonding experience in that way you
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know we've also like found like things that together
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we can be interested in doing. And so, you know,
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it's things like playing pickleball or, you know,
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finding a sport that both of us enjoy watching
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together. You know, I also, you're lucky, I happen
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to also be a car girl. And so, you know, that
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means that we love watching Formula One together
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and different kinds of things like that. And
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so just, you know, or hiking or, you know, going
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on walks, go to the gym together, whatever that
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looks like, finding that common ground together.
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if you can't find things that both of you are
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like, yes, we want to do this together, find
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things that you can do in the same space at the
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same time. It's more about the actual being together
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and the connection that happens through those
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activities than the actual activities themselves.
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That's a really good point. I remember when we
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were researching that in psychology, you and
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I discovered that there's actually an interesting
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Amount of bonding that can still take place when
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two people are doing even two separate things
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in the same space. And so we kind of leverage
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that early on, like you mentioned, in like if
00:14:08.669 --> 00:14:11.690
you have somebody who's interested in something
00:14:11.690 --> 00:14:14.730
and maybe it's a one person activity or maybe
00:14:14.730 --> 00:14:17.129
you're not just super interested. I have a lot
00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:19.750
of friends who are car guys, obviously. And going
00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:23.149
to car shows is a thing that they do. And sometimes
00:14:23.149 --> 00:14:25.509
their wives are super into it. Sometimes they're
00:14:25.509 --> 00:14:28.529
not. But they come to hang out. They connect
00:14:28.529 --> 00:14:30.889
with the people. So that can be one avenue. I
00:14:30.889 --> 00:14:34.210
know another lady who she loves reading. So she
00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:36.169
goes with her husband. She gets to read while
00:14:36.169 --> 00:14:41.250
he's driving. And then she hangs out when everyone's
00:14:41.250 --> 00:14:44.470
parked and talking. So it's just finding that
00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:47.480
way to be together. I think that's absolutely
00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.960
spot on. And usually as long as you feed us and
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.279
get us coffee, we're pretty happy to tag along,
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.100
you know? That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:56.179 --> 00:14:58.639
What a blessing, right? So we had also talked
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.720
about regular check -ins. Now this is something
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:06.240
that, again, when I was studying to become a
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.860
therapist, that was something that even just
00:15:08.860 --> 00:15:11.159
relationally was something that was super important
00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.159
in relationship check -ins, right? To see like...
00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:18.129
Hey, before things get bad, be like, hey, just
00:15:18.129 --> 00:15:21.809
checking. Is everything okay? Are you okay? Are
00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:24.110
we okay? Different versions of that question.
00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:26.110
I don't recommend saying all of them at once.
00:15:26.210 --> 00:15:28.789
From my perspective, I always feel like it's
00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.950
a win -win for me. I call it checking the oil,
00:15:32.009 --> 00:15:35.570
right? So for me, if there's nothing wrong, I
00:15:35.570 --> 00:15:37.409
put a deposit in your emotional bank account
00:15:37.409 --> 00:15:41.259
that I'm wanting to check. I am wanting to be
00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:43.240
aware. If there's something that needs to be
00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.120
brought to my attention, I would like to know.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.779
Sometimes it's out of the blue. It just pops
00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:50.000
in my mind and I want to check. Other times,
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:52.139
you know, maybe we get some bad news from a friend
00:15:52.139 --> 00:15:54.379
about their relationship or their marriage. And
00:15:54.379 --> 00:15:56.759
I'm like, ooh, this is a good reminder to check.
00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:59.620
Hey, are we good? Like, look at that. That sucks.
00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:02.120
Are we good? And again, it's a win -win for me.
00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:05.620
If there's nothing that you need to say, we're
00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:08.700
good. And then, you know, and then, but if there's
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:11.179
something that's been on your mind, that's, again,
00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:12.860
that's, it's good for you because it gives you
00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:15.039
an opportunity to say something. If you've been
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:16.720
like, ah, I've been kind of waiting for the right
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.740
time, you're like, sweet. And then also for me,
00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:21.460
obviously, if there is something that you bring
00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:24.679
up, then boom, game on. There's a, there's a
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.860
wonderful chance to, to improve or, or do something
00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:30.840
there. So how do you view those moments when
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.220
we traverse in there? Yeah. You know, those are,
00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:37.519
those are important. And I think the thing that
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.080
is big with those is if you're the person asking,
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:44.419
you have to be willing to receive whatever your
00:16:44.419 --> 00:16:48.059
spouse says back to you if they do choose to
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:52.360
bring something up. I also think there is an
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.519
element of discernment in there as well of what
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:59.179
you choose to bring up. I know that there are
00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:01.539
times, especially as I've gotten a little bit
00:17:01.539 --> 00:17:05.579
older, that I, my, as a female, my, my hormones
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:07.960
and my emotions kind of go in waves and different
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.599
things happen. And there are times that I am
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.180
really, really frustrated, but I have to stop
00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:16.420
and realize like, and process and think through
00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:20.019
like, okay, is this about this situation? Am
00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:22.660
I really that frustrated or annoyed or whatever?
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:28.460
Or is this a me like, you know, waiting and discerning
00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:30.759
if this is something worth bringing up rather
00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.779
than just kind of this emotionally explosive
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:38.400
kind of a conversation, discerning what that
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.180
means. And if I choose to bring it up, doing
00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:45.900
it in a kind manner, you know, even when we were
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.279
doing like premarital counseling, our counselor
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:49.900
told us like, you guys seem to have like these
00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:52.480
rules of engagement when you are having conversations
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.500
and to avoid words like never and always, right?
00:17:56.619 --> 00:18:00.289
Like, Those are fighting words and they're never
00:18:00.289 --> 00:18:04.309
true. They're not. It's never always and never.
00:18:04.490 --> 00:18:08.269
And so how do you do that? Not in a way to be
00:18:08.269 --> 00:18:11.170
mean, but in a way of like, hey, I am realizing
00:18:11.170 --> 00:18:16.170
I need X, Y, and Z from you or this habit or
00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:19.769
this thing is not helping me to feel like you
00:18:19.769 --> 00:18:23.940
see me and you love and you care about me. Um,
00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.859
and then as the other person, you have to be
00:18:26.859 --> 00:18:30.220
willing to take that in, not get defensive, not
00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:33.640
just start firing back, not becoming mean or
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.980
unkind and going, okay, well, how, and then asking
00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.700
questions to, you know, asking further questions
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.059
of, well, how, you know, if I did change this,
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.160
what does that look like? Or how, how will it
00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.579
be perceived if I'm doing this? How will, you
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.539
know? There's a million ways that you could,
00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:54.140
a million questions that you could ask. But I
00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:56.380
think, you know, one of the rules that a mentor
00:18:56.380 --> 00:18:58.880
actually taught us was always assuming positive
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.299
intent. Very rarely is your spouse out to hurt
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.640
your feelings or to belittle you or to be mean
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.319
to you or any of those things. Odds are, most
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.200
of the time, unless you're in, you know, you're
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.640
already in treacherous waters, your spouse is
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:20.099
not out to hurt you. And so how do you filter
00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:23.180
that through who you know that they are and the
00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:25.980
character that you know that they have? And then
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:28.319
going forward, what does that look like? And
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.180
so, you know, I think it's always assuming positive
00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:35.500
intent and then going from there. That's a super,
00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:39.019
I'm glad you touched on it. It's one of my cardinal
00:19:39.019 --> 00:19:41.359
rules with all relationships, especially the
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.400
ones that I, well, it helps me in the ones that
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.660
I'm very close to and then also the ones that
00:19:46.660 --> 00:19:49.539
I don't know super well. And that's always filtering
00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:53.400
something through who you know them to be. If
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.140
it's someone you don't know very well, that's
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.380
going to be their reputation and who you know
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.819
them to be. And if it's somebody that is very
00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:05.059
close to you. if they're acting out of character,
00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:08.480
right? I mean, there's sometimes where, you know,
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.660
there might be something going on, some external
00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:14.000
stressor, maybe internal pain, physical or emotional,
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:15.839
something might be going on. Like you mentioned
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.920
hormones earlier, right? That fluctuates for
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.700
men and women as we get older. And you might
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:26.400
have a moment that is uncharacteristic of that
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.859
person. And so when you receive them treating
00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:32.789
you poorly, You have some choices to make, right?
00:20:32.890 --> 00:20:35.549
And assuming that positive intent is key number
00:20:35.549 --> 00:20:37.529
one. Again, I think this can be applied across
00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.589
all relationships. So I hope this is useful to
00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:44.349
someone. But you receive that and you say, okay,
00:20:44.490 --> 00:20:48.150
I know they're not meaning to hurt me. So the
00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:51.549
alternative must be that this is, and this is
00:20:51.549 --> 00:20:53.589
obviously not matching their character, right?
00:20:53.690 --> 00:20:56.289
Who I know them to be. So are you going to change
00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:58.769
how you... their character in your mind and who
00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:01.589
you know them to be or just have this be an outlier
00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:03.490
especially if it's the first time right well
00:21:03.490 --> 00:21:05.789
obviously the rational answer is is the second
00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:08.029
right so so that's always really helped me when
00:21:08.029 --> 00:21:11.230
someone says something that's weird uncharacteristic
00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:13.990
and then earlier you also mentioned asking questions
00:21:13.990 --> 00:21:15.910
right those are so critical when you're like
00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:18.190
hey yep and we've mentioned this before on the
00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:20.809
show when you've said this you made me feel this
00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:23.150
way is that what you meant me to feel and that's
00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:24.690
a perfect moment there because that person can
00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:27.799
be like Oh, my gosh. No, of course not. You know,
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.140
and I can really diffuse some spicy situations.
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.680
You know, I think it's funny. I just finished
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.660
rewatching Ted Lasso. Right. And there's that
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:40.779
scene in Ted Lasso where he's in the bar and
00:21:40.779 --> 00:21:44.000
he's playing darts with Rupert. Right. And he's
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.460
telling this whole story and the Walt Whitman
00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:50.359
quote of, you know, curious, not judgmental.
00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:54.720
You know, he if he had been if Rupert had been
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.099
curious, he would have asked Ted questions. Right.
00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:59.359
And realize like, oh, Ted's really good at darts.
00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:02.440
Same kind of thing applies into a marriage of
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:05.220
asking questions and being curious and not instantly
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:10.220
like going to that that judgmental or not going
00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:12.740
to that that spot immediately and instantaneously.
00:22:13.460 --> 00:22:17.819
Just assuming positive intent. Yeah. And that
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:20.859
goes right into our next section of communication
00:22:20.859 --> 00:22:23.460
that you and I talked about is like the second
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:27.119
pillar of intentionality. And I talked about
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.180
earlier discernment that is really critical to
00:22:31.180 --> 00:22:33.759
deciding whether or not something is worth bringing
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.339
up. How do you kind of decide that? I know I
00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:39.059
have my own way of filtering it. And what do
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:41.859
you think? Yeah, I think for me, it's more like,
00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:43.799
you know, the first time that something happens
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:45.700
or the first time that something frustrates me,
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.349
I don't. I don't bring it up. I give it to find
00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:51.769
out if it's going to become a pattern or, you
00:22:51.769 --> 00:22:55.190
know, also like context clues, right? For me,
00:22:55.269 --> 00:22:59.309
usually my like irritations and frustrations
00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:02.690
with you tend to be, I'm noticing more and more
00:23:02.690 --> 00:23:06.410
with those hormonal swings. And so coming to
00:23:06.410 --> 00:23:09.349
realize like, this is a me problem. But also
00:23:09.349 --> 00:23:12.049
I think that whole, the whole concept of like
00:23:12.049 --> 00:23:15.559
second thought. Almost even like second emotion
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:18.799
to you could use that phrase of like, okay, this
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.539
was my initial gut reaction. Now, what is the
00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:27.740
actual truth? And so it is, I also think it's
00:23:27.740 --> 00:23:29.720
back to that whole assuming positive intent,
00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:32.940
second thought, those kinds of things are the
00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:35.859
ways in which that I can discern what's a me
00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:40.509
thing versus a you thing. And then I think. That
00:23:40.509 --> 00:23:42.490
discernment then leads to, am I going to bring
00:23:42.490 --> 00:23:45.470
it up? Am I not? And if I choose not to bring
00:23:45.470 --> 00:23:49.890
it up, I genuinely have to just let it go. This
00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:52.349
has become one of our rules of like, if you choose
00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:55.630
not to bring it up and you have to actually let
00:23:55.630 --> 00:23:58.230
it go, you're not sweeping it under the rug and
00:23:58.230 --> 00:24:00.410
you don't get to bring it back up in a discussion
00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:04.670
later, right? You genuinely have to let it go.
00:24:07.410 --> 00:24:10.519
Yeah, no, I think that's... That's no surprise.
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:12.900
Obviously, that matches my thoughts exactly.
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:15.579
You have to be the one. It's that difference
00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.380
between you. Is that a you issue or is that a
00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:21.700
me issue? And if it's me, then it's, I mean,
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.680
quite frankly, I think it makes it easier to
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.359
let go, right? Because you're like, well, hang
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.079
on. This is a perspective issue. This is the
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.420
way that I'm viewing this. You also mentioned
00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:36.170
the approach of... looking for patterns, right?
00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:39.029
This is like one of my leadership rules as well
00:24:39.029 --> 00:24:41.569
for leaders in business is when your employee
00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:44.910
does something for the first time, that's not
00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:47.349
a pattern, right? And so the response of that
00:24:47.349 --> 00:24:53.630
needs to be a little bit more measured than when
00:24:53.630 --> 00:24:55.549
someone's doing something for the fifth or sixth
00:24:55.549 --> 00:25:00.190
time, right? So same thing applies here. And
00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:02.990
then, yeah, if it's something that you're going
00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:06.099
to choose to let go, then you have to actually
00:25:06.099 --> 00:25:09.859
do so, right? Burying it or putting it under
00:25:09.859 --> 00:25:13.259
the rug is only gonna make it compound over time
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:17.880
to the point where if this continues, then it's
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.460
gonna be a blow up in the future, right? So at
00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:22.500
that point, it's just worth mentioning at the
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.319
first, even the first time, just to get it out
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.660
there. Something Jordan Peterson talks about
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.000
is he says, have the damn fight. And he says
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.839
so often there's something that couples have
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.799
to talk about that they've been avoiding. And
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:39.319
it goes on for months. Then it goes on for years.
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.640
And then by that, there's so many things stacked
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.519
on top of it that they're fighting with such
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.519
fierce energy about multiple things that aren't
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.579
the real thing, but with the intensity of all
00:25:51.579 --> 00:25:54.980
of those things. And it's just incredibly destructive
00:25:54.980 --> 00:25:58.140
because they have to now, because of so much
00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:01.099
time has passed, they have to spend a lot of
00:26:01.099 --> 00:26:03.940
effort to get down to the bottom. I mean, he
00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:05.779
talks about how that's really, really tough,
00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:09.420
especially the longer you go. So if you can sense,
00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:11.339
guys, if you can sense that this is something
00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:14.500
that is nagging at you and you haven't mentioned
00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:17.500
it, you need to find a way. You need to find
00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:20.220
a way to bring it up. And if it's the first time
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.059
that you're bringing it up, again, measured.
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.880
approach is very, very important, which is going
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.160
to be more difficult the more you've been bearing
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.619
it. And that's why in the daily practices that
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:34.859
you and I do, we do the 4G journal, right? We
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:38.339
do the gratitude, goals, growth, and grace, right?
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.960
And that last one being grace is super critical
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.720
because that is somebody that you're forgiving
00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:46.480
or something that you're letting go, right? And
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.970
so, yeah, again, super, super critical. Honestly,
00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:53.390
one of our biggest rules of engagement and that
00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:55.789
communication is really, really critical. In
00:26:55.789 --> 00:26:59.210
this very thread, we have another rule that I
00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:02.630
want you to give us your scoop on about being
00:27:02.630 --> 00:27:06.170
very careful who you talk about your spouse to.
00:27:06.450 --> 00:27:09.190
Can you tell us why that's important? Yeah. So
00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:12.289
one of the other things, kind of the rules that
00:27:12.289 --> 00:27:14.609
came up in premarital counseling was being very
00:27:14.609 --> 00:27:17.190
careful who you have conversations about your
00:27:17.190 --> 00:27:21.779
spouse with, who you gripe to, right? Who you
00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:25.299
let into the intimacy of your marriage is so
00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:28.500
very important. You know, there is literally
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:32.220
like, I don't know, less than two people, maybe
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:36.220
even only one, who I will have conversations
00:27:36.220 --> 00:27:39.740
with regarding. Things that are maybe frustrating
00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:42.680
me or if we're having a weird time or whatever
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.839
that looks like. And you always want to pick
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.960
people who are going to be what we like to call
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.059
team Negron, right? Or like team marriage. People
00:27:52.059 --> 00:27:55.240
who are always going to push you. Towards the
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.700
marriage, not towards, oh, I want what's best
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:03.160
just for me, or you do what makes you happy,
00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:06.220
or all the other stuff that comes up, right?
00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:10.019
No, no, no. This is about the marriage. We made
00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:14.579
a covenant vow before the Lord together, right?
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:18.079
So every decision that is made, every way in
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:20.680
which we interact and respond to each other is
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:24.869
through the filter of together. Now, I'm not
00:28:24.869 --> 00:28:26.630
saying that there aren't circumstances and there
00:28:26.630 --> 00:28:30.089
aren't times when things have gone so awry or
00:28:30.089 --> 00:28:32.829
that they're, I mean, you know, the whole abuse
00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:35.390
conversation is a completely different conversation.
00:28:35.970 --> 00:28:39.190
But if you're just having, you know, irritations
00:28:39.190 --> 00:28:41.869
and frustrations with each other, be so careful.
00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:44.549
Also, the other rule is it's never someone of
00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:50.630
the opposite sex. Ever. You do not give any emotional.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.880
door to open for something outside of your marriage
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.319
to creep its way in. Like it has to be someone
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.579
of the same gender. Um, because unfortunately
00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:06.119
what can then happen is this, you start to have
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.160
emotions and things start to feel differently
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.200
and that person is attentive and caring and all
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.000
of those things can happen. And so just don't
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.519
even, don't even give it an opportunity to, to
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.220
be a thing. Yeah. Find people who are team marriage,
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.680
team Negron, team. whatever, and seek advice.
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.759
And seek advice from people who you know are
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:28.799
in your corner and who are going to give you
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.200
that godly, biblical wisdom. And that know you
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.599
both. I think that's the one to two people that
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:41.140
I have. Know you extremely well, know your intentions.
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.180
And so I think that's critical too, because when
00:29:44.180 --> 00:29:47.319
you have some clouded judgment in a difficult
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:51.500
time, maybe some... some wrong perspectives even
00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:54.160
is probably a good way to put that. Those people
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.779
can help filter your perspective through the
00:29:58.779 --> 00:30:01.079
spouse's character and be like, no, that doesn't
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.079
sound like Ashley. And then that reframe can
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.019
happen super easily and they can hold up that
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:10.000
mirror very, very easily, very, very well. And
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.279
yeah, I totally agree. There's been people from
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:16.440
the opposite gender that have asked questions
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.740
before. And it's just those things where it's
00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:20.680
like, yeah, no, it's great. Everything's great.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.019
Even if it's a moment where I may be frustrated,
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.019
it's like, no, it's awesome. Everything's awesome.
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.900
And so I think that's super, super critical.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.319
And anyone that's ever... trusted me inside of
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.539
their marriage situations, that's been my same
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:39.900
approach with them, right? It's like, until that
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:43.980
paperwork is filed, I'm going to be supportive
00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:47.200
of the union itself as an institution that you
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:49.460
promised to each other. I mean, obviously, this
00:30:49.460 --> 00:30:53.500
is always with the caveat of like, right, you
00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:55.920
said those cases of abuse and those kinds of
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.579
things, those are going to be a case -by -case
00:30:57.579 --> 00:30:59.809
scenario, but in general. Right. Those are the
00:30:59.809 --> 00:31:04.150
things that we do. The next thing we had talked
00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:06.750
about is the difference between listening and
00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:09.430
giving advice. I'll head this one up because
00:31:09.430 --> 00:31:13.930
this is one that I think my guys listen up. There
00:31:13.930 --> 00:31:17.009
are going to be times where your lady wants to
00:31:17.009 --> 00:31:20.490
have you just listen. And as a general, again,
00:31:20.609 --> 00:31:24.819
super generalized. system, men tend to be fixers
00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:28.339
and doers, and that's part of how we process,
00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:32.180
right? And so, ladies, sometimes the processing
00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:35.019
that you do is your verbal processors. I think
00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:37.339
we all are verbal processors to a certain degree,
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:42.759
but there's times where you are not in the space
00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:46.779
to be interested in my... solutions, in my ideas,
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:50.019
and in my reframes. So I have to, especially
00:31:50.019 --> 00:31:53.579
the closer to the emotion or the situation, I
00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:55.960
have to use some discernment to try to understand,
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.279
okay, is this the first time she's telling me
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:01.000
about this? Is this very close to this scenario
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:04.700
of whatever the occurrence is? And if those two
00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:06.759
answers are yes, I don't really have to ask you,
00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:08.720
hey, do you need me to listen or do you want
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:10.859
me to help you fix it? I know what the answer
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.319
is, right? I need to give you some space. to
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.240
talk through the thing. But then other times
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.660
the question isn't inappropriate where it's like,
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.539
hey, what do you need from me right now? Can
00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:23.920
you tell us from your angle why this is so critical
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.140
for guys to grasp? Sometimes we just need a good
00:32:29.140 --> 00:32:31.640
vent. But I think the thing that is important
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:35.859
in that is, you know, we've also kind of created
00:32:35.859 --> 00:32:37.900
this rule a little bit of like, you get to gripe
00:32:37.900 --> 00:32:40.880
about it one time. That's it. Otherwise, like
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:42.839
then you have to be the one to actually fix it.
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:44.900
You don't get to gripe a second time if you're
00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:47.980
unwilling to do what is necessary to move things
00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:51.079
forward or to fix or to change whatever that
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.279
that looks like. And so that's super important.
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:59.359
And sometimes it's honestly just asking the question,
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.180
and you've asked me this before, do you want
00:33:01.180 --> 00:33:02.740
me to fix it or do you just want me to listen?
00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.960
Because that also changes the way in which you're
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:08.380
engaging in that entire conversation. And so
00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:11.900
don't wait till the end of that conversation.
00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:15.930
to ask that question, you know, usually at some
00:33:15.930 --> 00:33:17.349
point we're going to take a breath and you can
00:33:17.349 --> 00:33:19.829
go, hang on a second. This is, you know, what,
00:33:19.869 --> 00:33:23.390
how can I best help you in this? Right. Right.
00:33:23.650 --> 00:33:26.869
Right. And so that, but you have to actually
00:33:26.869 --> 00:33:32.109
like, listen, not just hear me and hear. You
00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:34.309
know, the fact that I'm talking to you, don't
00:33:34.309 --> 00:33:37.329
just like let it Charlie Brown, you know, like
00:33:37.329 --> 00:33:40.809
the teacher, but actually listening to the things
00:33:40.809 --> 00:33:43.309
that are happening and the things that I'm frustrated
00:33:43.309 --> 00:33:45.769
about. Or, you know, sometimes I just need a
00:33:45.769 --> 00:33:47.769
good vent and I don't actually need you to fix
00:33:47.769 --> 00:33:49.269
anything or I already took care of it. But it
00:33:49.269 --> 00:33:50.630
doesn't mean I'm still not frustrated about it
00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:55.549
or whatever, you know. But yeah, let yeah, definitely
00:33:55.549 --> 00:33:58.069
a verbal processing. But asking that question
00:33:58.069 --> 00:34:01.809
can can be huge. Yeah, for sure. And by the way,
00:34:01.809 --> 00:34:03.950
the thing of, oh, I don't know what I need, that's
00:34:03.950 --> 00:34:07.670
a perfectly valid, acceptable answer because
00:34:07.670 --> 00:34:11.530
sometimes I just don't know. Yeah. And in that
00:34:11.530 --> 00:34:15.070
case, shut up and listen. Because when you listen,
00:34:15.250 --> 00:34:18.550
you're going to gain that insight anyway. And
00:34:18.550 --> 00:34:20.690
if you need to be like, hey, I'm just going to
00:34:20.690 --> 00:34:23.050
bust out my phone notes real quick. I am listening
00:34:23.050 --> 00:34:25.739
to what you're saying. Maybe paper is better
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:28.079
in that scenario to make sure that they feel
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:30.400
like you're listening. And then you can write
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.840
some notes, maybe some feedback that you have
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.440
later on when it's time to fix it. You're like,
00:34:35.539 --> 00:34:37.059
hey, I had these thoughts while you were talking,
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:38.739
but I didn't want to interrupt you and I wanted
00:34:38.739 --> 00:34:41.900
to give you the space to talk. And in that same
00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:44.760
regard, there's another funny rule that we talk
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.119
about in communication that I think is just more...
00:34:48.590 --> 00:34:51.809
important to be aware of relationally that that
00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:55.110
as a again we're talking in in broad generalities
00:34:55.110 --> 00:34:58.909
a lot here but in a lot of conversations relationally
00:34:58.909 --> 00:35:01.809
there is this kind of like push pull rule that
00:35:01.809 --> 00:35:06.349
exists in that both people assume to a certain
00:35:06.349 --> 00:35:10.449
degree opposite sides of any spectrum so my my
00:35:10.449 --> 00:35:14.329
favorite uh example in this is you can test this
00:35:14.329 --> 00:35:16.750
in the middle of a, I don't want to say a fight.
00:35:16.869 --> 00:35:19.789
I'd say maybe like a financial discussion where
00:35:19.789 --> 00:35:22.730
a couple's talking about, you know, saving versus
00:35:22.730 --> 00:35:24.889
spending. Now, generally people will say in a
00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:26.929
relationship, there's a saver and there's a spender.
00:35:27.110 --> 00:35:30.769
Sure. I get that. But you can even get this to
00:35:30.769 --> 00:35:33.849
flip mid conversation, right? And, and, and the
00:35:33.849 --> 00:35:36.329
reason why you could do this is just to illustrate
00:35:36.329 --> 00:35:39.079
this as a real thing. So when you're having a
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:41.780
conversation and one person's like, hey, I've
00:35:41.780 --> 00:35:44.099
been thinking about buying this thing, whatever
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:46.039
it is, it's substantial enough to have a discussion
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:47.840
around, right? And the other one might be like,
00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:50.699
well, the other one might assume the conservative
00:35:50.699 --> 00:35:53.300
role in that conversation, just kind of devil's
00:35:53.300 --> 00:35:55.179
advocate posture, right? And like, well, are
00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:58.039
we sure we need that? And the last thing you
00:35:58.039 --> 00:35:59.940
bought like this, we haven't really used, right?
00:36:00.019 --> 00:36:02.840
Those kinds of things. And so you can test this
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.059
by, especially if you're in the conservative
00:36:05.059 --> 00:36:08.900
position, you can be like. well, I don't know.
00:36:08.900 --> 00:36:11.619
Yeah, sure. Let's do it, right? And sometimes
00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.559
you can see the other person will be like, well,
00:36:14.659 --> 00:36:18.500
I don't know. I'm actually not sure. And so it's
00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:20.519
just a fun thing to be aware of that sometimes
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:24.380
that person is assuming that role just to help
00:36:24.380 --> 00:36:27.300
you work through something, right? So typically,
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:31.340
if you marry someone that you admire and respect,
00:36:31.420 --> 00:36:34.619
that person is going to be someone that That's
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:36.900
not just a yes person, not a yes woman or a yes
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:40.500
man, right? And so nobody is attracted naturally
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:43.500
to a pushover unless you got some serious therapy
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:46.360
issues you need to work through, right? And so
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.780
in that comes the discussion where just awareness
00:36:49.780 --> 00:36:52.300
that there's this push -pull that just exists
00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:56.059
because that person is helping you. and refine
00:36:56.059 --> 00:36:58.820
your ideas. This is, again, something that Jordan
00:36:58.820 --> 00:37:00.619
Peterson talks a lot about, and I think that's
00:37:00.619 --> 00:37:03.579
super important and actually leads into our final
00:37:03.579 --> 00:37:06.139
area and probably, again, the most controversial
00:37:06.139 --> 00:37:08.219
part of what we're going to talk about today
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:11.980
in gender roles and what does a helpmate actually
00:37:11.980 --> 00:37:13.920
look like, which I'll start out with. I think
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.139
that's really critical because I think people
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:19.619
who maybe aren't religious or kind of maybe left
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:22.260
that world, they kind of view this as antiquated.
00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:25.309
Maybe look at it as, you know, suppression of
00:37:25.309 --> 00:37:27.630
women and those kinds of things. But what I love
00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:30.389
about the definition of helpmate in the Bible,
00:37:30.489 --> 00:37:33.929
which again is seen with a lot of negativity
00:37:33.929 --> 00:37:37.090
and disdain because it doesn't sound super awesome,
00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:40.650
is that, and again, Jordan Peterson talks about
00:37:40.650 --> 00:37:43.730
this, that it's actually sparring partner. And
00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:45.989
so that person that's helping you refine your
00:37:45.989 --> 00:37:49.829
ideas is not a pushover and is a true sparring
00:37:49.829 --> 00:37:51.869
partner with your ideas, with your thoughts,
00:37:51.989 --> 00:37:54.670
challenging you, pushing you to be better. I
00:37:54.670 --> 00:37:57.869
think you're the last thing to a pushover in
00:37:57.869 --> 00:38:01.429
my mind. So talk to me a little bit about how
00:38:01.429 --> 00:38:05.150
that looks like for you in your mind. Yeah, you
00:38:05.150 --> 00:38:09.179
know. The word like submission and all of those
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.639
things kind of has this like dirty connotation
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.059
because we've taken and we've twisted what was
00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:21.119
actually intended to be this bond together moving
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.039
forward. Like you said, that whole like sparring
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:28.139
partner. No one wants to be with someone who
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:31.059
just is a yes man, who just rolls over to every
00:38:31.059 --> 00:38:33.940
conversation or who only does what the other
00:38:33.940 --> 00:38:37.579
person wants to do. That's not emotionally engaging.
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:41.099
That's not challenging. We like a challenge.
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.739
Like we were created and intended for a challenge.
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:48.440
And so in that, like you can spar with one another
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:50.699
and that doesn't have to be like, you don't have
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:54.260
to think of that as a bad thing. We don't fight
00:38:54.260 --> 00:38:57.340
a lot, but we have conversations and we push
00:38:57.340 --> 00:39:00.159
each other to be better, to be healthier, to
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.400
keep growing. to keep pursuing what is best for
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.900
us individually so that we are the best together,
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.699
right? And so I think you can think about it
00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:14.800
of like, God made us equal, but we have different
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.760
roles. And then also like different seasons,
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.260
there's going to be different roles and different
00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:23.579
things. One of the favorite ways I've heard it
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:26.849
put. is um brene brown talks about that marriage
00:39:26.849 --> 00:39:30.869
is always 100 but how it's divided up looks different
00:39:30.869 --> 00:39:32.809
in different seasons and in different spaces
00:39:32.809 --> 00:39:35.710
right so sometimes depending on the season it's
00:39:35.710 --> 00:39:37.989
like 50 50 we're both giving it you know we're
00:39:37.989 --> 00:39:39.690
we're working well together we're both doing
00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:42.230
all of our things sometimes we're in seasons
00:39:42.230 --> 00:39:44.900
of life where like it may be That you're having
00:39:44.900 --> 00:39:47.679
to give the 80 % and all I've got to bring to
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.659
the table is 20%. Sometimes it's 99 -1, whatever
00:39:52.659 --> 00:39:55.500
that looks like. There are going to be different
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:59.579
seasons and reasons for that to shift. But it's
00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:03.280
always that 100 % is being put into the marriage
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:06.500
between the two of you. And having those conversations
00:40:06.500 --> 00:40:09.280
and acknowledging that, you know, everybody's
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:10.920
got different roles and different strengths.
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.539
And so, you know, for us, there's, there's certain
00:40:14.539 --> 00:40:16.239
times that we laugh about, there's certain things
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:19.320
that like, I come to you and ask questions or
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.360
want your input because I don't want to freight
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.139
train you. But at the end of the day, you're
00:40:24.139 --> 00:40:26.179
like, Hey, would it just be better if I, it didn't
00:40:26.179 --> 00:40:28.460
matter? I'm like, yeah, actually it would be
00:40:28.460 --> 00:40:30.159
like, okay, great. Like take it and run. Right.
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.920
And so you have to lean into those, into those
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:36.500
strengths and into those different things. You
00:40:36.500 --> 00:40:39.019
know, God made us all different, unique individuals.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.750
And so Lean into those things. It doesn't have
00:40:42.750 --> 00:40:47.489
to be a dirty word or something that you see
00:40:47.489 --> 00:40:50.989
as like being a prison or a chain or whatever
00:40:50.989 --> 00:40:53.849
that it is you want to call it. There's actually
00:40:53.849 --> 00:40:58.250
great freedom and even like a sense of intimacy
00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:01.869
that comes from actual true biblical submission.
00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:05.289
And that's equal submission, right? Let's be
00:41:05.289 --> 00:41:08.510
super clear about that. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
00:41:09.030 --> 00:41:12.050
The passage in Ephesians that calls women to
00:41:12.050 --> 00:41:14.889
submit, right after that, it calls the husbands
00:41:14.889 --> 00:41:17.929
to give up themselves like Christ gave himself
00:41:17.929 --> 00:41:20.369
up for the church. That doesn't sound too domineering
00:41:20.369 --> 00:41:23.110
if you ask me on that. So you said equal value.
00:41:23.130 --> 00:41:26.250
I want to highlight that again, really critically,
00:41:26.429 --> 00:41:30.940
equal value, not different, right? in that marriage,
00:41:31.099 --> 00:41:33.219
and then also potentially sometimes different
00:41:33.219 --> 00:41:35.900
roles and different roles for different marriages,
00:41:36.019 --> 00:41:39.119
right? Like, for example, ours is not stereotypical
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.820
in a lot of ways, right? Like I, on the color
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:44.739
code, I'm a blue, purist blue, you're a purist
00:41:44.739 --> 00:41:48.940
red, right? You're a type A. I'm much more emotional,
00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:52.760
much more emotive, high empathy, right? I always
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:56.380
joke that I married someone who has low emotions
00:41:56.380 --> 00:41:59.219
because I have way too much. I have more than
00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:04.820
enough for two people. And by that, some of those
00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:08.719
qualities are associated more with the stereotypical
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:11.940
feminine characteristics, whereas the type A,
00:42:12.099 --> 00:42:14.760
again, they go more masculine, right? Take charge,
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.300
those kinds of things. And so I think it's super
00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:19.900
important to know what your personalities are.
00:42:20.539 --> 00:42:22.179
And like you said earlier, you said strengths
00:42:22.179 --> 00:42:25.159
and weaknesses, right? Like how, you know, they
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:28.159
say opposites attract. That's, again, a general
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.880
rule that applies because you're attracted to
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.420
someone that can help you in your weakness, right?
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:37.300
Something that you're not good at, then your
00:42:37.300 --> 00:42:40.920
helpmate on both sides, man and women, can help
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.579
you through those things. And I think that's
00:42:42.579 --> 00:42:46.219
super, super critical. We really can't, I mean,
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:49.909
we could talk for an hour just on that. And that
00:42:49.909 --> 00:42:52.929
leads into the next section. If you're somebody
00:42:52.929 --> 00:42:55.070
of faith, you know, we went to a Christian college,
00:42:55.130 --> 00:42:58.289
right? And when we got married, so many of your
00:42:58.289 --> 00:43:01.269
girlfriends would be like, he is not helping
00:43:01.269 --> 00:43:04.369
around the house. Like he's not, all he's doing
00:43:04.369 --> 00:43:06.849
is playing video games. And they were expressing
00:43:06.849 --> 00:43:09.289
frustration, right? Early on in their marriage
00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:12.989
when the young boy was not taking charge, was
00:43:12.989 --> 00:43:16.989
not leading the family. And I'll say me personally,
00:43:17.170 --> 00:43:19.510
when I was a more unhealthy version of myself,
00:43:19.690 --> 00:43:21.570
when we got married, I was like, man, I'm married
00:43:21.570 --> 00:43:23.909
a type A. She's going to basically be the executive
00:43:23.909 --> 00:43:26.750
of my life. She's going to take charge, make
00:43:26.750 --> 00:43:28.670
all the decisions. And I can just be like, what's
00:43:28.670 --> 00:43:31.110
up, dude? Yeah, I'll do whatever. Just I'm a
00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:34.269
people pleaser by nature. And so I'd be like,
00:43:34.369 --> 00:43:36.070
yeah, sure. Whatever you want to do, hon. Yeah,
00:43:36.090 --> 00:43:38.789
that pushover, right? The not engaging for you,
00:43:38.869 --> 00:43:46.260
not stimulating at all. personality type that
00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:49.179
you had was a take charge kind of person, that
00:43:49.179 --> 00:43:53.199
you still wanted me to lead the family spiritually.
00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:57.400
And that is a lesson I remember very distinctly
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:01.000
learning, that it was my responsibility to do
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.400
that. And it was one that I had early on abdicated.
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:07.400
And then that was not something that I could
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.960
be proud of, and that I needed to pick that mantle
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:14.960
up and do that. What can you tell women out there?
00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:18.000
What advice did you give those newlyweds? What
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.099
advice can you give someone? Maybe they have
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.500
been married just a few short time, but also
00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:25.199
some that have been married a long time and they're
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.619
married to man boys that don't take responsibility
00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:32.019
and don't lead in the ways that they should.
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:34.880
I think that one of the biggest things for us
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.019
was we found other couples who were further along
00:44:38.019 --> 00:44:40.300
in the journey of marriage than what we were.
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:43.519
And we let them invest in us. We let them help
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:47.719
guide us and push us. You know, you had older
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.380
men who'd been married for longer periods of
00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:53.300
time come alongside you and help push you to
00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:55.480
that role. And so finding people that you can
00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:59.239
learn from who have been and walked the road
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:03.400
that you're currently in. As a person of faith,
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:05.360
one of the things that I can say to you is like,
00:45:05.420 --> 00:45:09.599
spend time praying for your husband. Paul talks
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.980
about the fact that, you know, the prayers of
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:19.980
a wife can change her husband. Give that to the
00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:23.480
Lord. God gave us that desire deep within our
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:28.000
heart. And so, you know, give that to the Lord.
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:33.199
Ask him for that. And then also like, you know,
00:45:33.219 --> 00:45:35.900
some of it is you may have to lead by example
00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:39.719
for a season of time as well. Like let him see
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.780
you in the word, let him see you being intentional
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:46.559
and diving into that. You know, sometimes there's
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:48.619
a season and a reason to lead by example. And
00:45:48.619 --> 00:45:51.900
so, you know, those are the, those are kind of
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:53.679
the three things that come to mind for pieces
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:57.079
of advice around that. Yeah. Well, and I, I'm
00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.199
going to. I'm going to back you up on that because
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.599
I think I've always told you early on that what
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:05.940
spurred me to actually grow spiritually wasn't
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:08.400
you nagging me to do so. You know, there's some
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.900
Proverbs, and this is a sensitive thing for you
00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:14.019
in that you're always very intentional not to
00:46:14.019 --> 00:46:16.980
be a nag, right? Because Proverbs talks specifically
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.699
like three times about how men would rather be
00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:25.079
in the top corner of the roof outside while it's
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.949
raining. then be in the house with his nagging
00:46:27.949 --> 00:46:31.210
wife, in the attic that's leaky and cold, you
00:46:31.210 --> 00:46:33.110
know, multiple illustrations that are kind of
00:46:33.110 --> 00:46:35.389
funny, but kind of true, right? And so I've always
00:46:35.389 --> 00:46:37.809
appreciated that about you, you leading by example,
00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:40.869
right? And so you were leading spiritually for
00:46:40.869 --> 00:46:44.630
a time, right? And I just remember at some point
00:46:44.630 --> 00:46:48.530
seeing that, and it convicted me, right? Because
00:46:48.530 --> 00:46:51.329
you were setting that example, and I'm sure your
00:46:51.329 --> 00:46:53.690
prayers and all those things had an effect too.
00:46:53.769 --> 00:46:55.369
I just don't have a... I don't have a way to
00:46:55.369 --> 00:46:58.949
be aware of that. And so I remember just being,
00:46:59.309 --> 00:47:01.590
this is probably the way I could distill it most,
00:47:01.690 --> 00:47:05.349
of the way this woman is living out Ephesians
00:47:05.349 --> 00:47:08.650
in your marriage is superior to how you are.
00:47:09.449 --> 00:47:13.670
And so you need to take responsibility and match.
00:47:14.409 --> 00:47:15.989
You know, at that point, like you were saying
00:47:15.989 --> 00:47:17.869
earlier, you were doing, it was like 80 -20.
00:47:17.989 --> 00:47:21.329
You were doing 80 and I was doing 20. And I had
00:47:21.329 --> 00:47:23.639
to realize. oh, wow, she's getting the short
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:26.219
end of the stick here. And I think that's why
00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:28.840
Jordan Peterson's movement has been so powerful
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:30.900
for young men, right? Because he's telling them,
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:34.019
clean your room, be responsible, be upstanding
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:36.539
gentlemen of society, right? Not to mistreat
00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:40.239
women, but to cherish them and lead them well.
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:43.539
And that started with you actually leading me
00:47:43.539 --> 00:47:46.579
well in setting that example. I really do. I
00:47:46.579 --> 00:47:48.619
do really do. And that's something that you got
00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:51.539
from your mom that I've always told you I greatly
00:47:51.539 --> 00:47:54.400
respect. And so by you being better than me,
00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:59.079
you made me want to be better and wake up and
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.559
be that way. And that, I mean, honestly, that
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.760
leads up to, again, we could talk about this
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:07.900
for hours and hours, but that leads into where
00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:10.679
we said was where it needs to wrap up and what
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.429
this show is all about, about being. The best
00:48:13.429 --> 00:48:16.789
version of yourself is what's best for your marriage
00:48:16.789 --> 00:48:20.550
and family because you're going to be the best
00:48:20.550 --> 00:48:23.210
husband, the best wife, the best mother, the
00:48:23.210 --> 00:48:25.769
best father, and the best person to be in a relationship
00:48:25.769 --> 00:48:29.110
with, the best boss, if you're the best version
00:48:29.110 --> 00:48:32.449
of you. That's where it's critical. And so those
00:48:32.449 --> 00:48:36.829
daily steps of what is the one thing that if
00:48:36.829 --> 00:48:39.429
you did today would make you a better person.
00:48:39.929 --> 00:48:42.570
then start doing that. Start doing that daily
00:48:42.570 --> 00:48:45.349
because that's going to start changing you and
00:48:45.349 --> 00:48:47.469
is going to start changing your marriage. I mean,
00:48:47.510 --> 00:48:49.989
you know, it's what you talk about, like daily
00:48:49.989 --> 00:48:53.710
anything changes everything. So what is one little
00:48:53.710 --> 00:48:57.710
thing that you can do today to show your spouse
00:48:57.710 --> 00:49:00.369
that you see them, that you've thought about
00:49:00.369 --> 00:49:03.849
them, that you're intentionally moving towards
00:49:03.849 --> 00:49:07.030
them? And sometimes, you know, honestly, depending
00:49:07.030 --> 00:49:08.769
on like where you're at, the season that your
00:49:08.769 --> 00:49:11.429
marriage is in, Sometimes it may feel a little
00:49:11.429 --> 00:49:13.449
bit like just going through the motions, but
00:49:13.449 --> 00:49:16.170
eventually it becomes the new norm. And you talk
00:49:16.170 --> 00:49:18.050
about how long it takes to develop a habit and
00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:20.070
a pattern. The same thing applies to these little
00:49:20.070 --> 00:49:22.329
things within your marriage, developing a habit
00:49:22.329 --> 00:49:24.329
or a pattern. You know, if you're a forgetful
00:49:24.329 --> 00:49:27.570
person, set an alarm, like at the same time every
00:49:27.570 --> 00:49:29.980
day that I'm going to text you. Something that
00:49:29.980 --> 00:49:32.159
I love about you. Or I'm going to find a silly
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.019
meme. Or it's just, it's those little daily things
00:49:36.019 --> 00:49:40.659
that will push you together. And then, yeah,
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:42.920
like you said, just always becoming the best
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:45.820
version of yourself. It's really hard to love
00:49:45.820 --> 00:49:48.800
someone else well when you're a mess yourself.
00:49:49.179 --> 00:49:52.320
And so work on those things. Pursue becoming
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:56.800
healthy and holy as well so that you can love
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:58.699
other people, specifically your spouse, well.
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:03.300
Hmm. I totally agree. Well, I think that's probably
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.679
a wrap. I can't think of anything else. Again,
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:08.880
we could talk about this forever, but I think
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.059
that's some awesome bite -sized things that brings
00:50:13.059 --> 00:50:15.579
it all together in that idea of intentionality
00:50:15.579 --> 00:50:20.900
and pursuing yourself being better in whatever
00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:24.099
way, whether that's physical, mental, emotional
00:50:24.099 --> 00:50:27.139
improvements in health. And as you pursue that,
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.320
Your relationships will improve and arguably
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.440
the most significant ones will yield the best
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:36.019
result and benefit the most, right? Because those
00:50:36.019 --> 00:50:38.300
are the relationships that you have the closest
00:50:38.300 --> 00:50:40.900
proximity to. So that's going to be your spouse,
00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:44.980
then your children, and I mean, probably... the
00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:47.280
people at work. So your employees, your colleagues,
00:50:47.780 --> 00:50:49.559
you know, your boss, anyone that you interact
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.300
with with a significant amount of time is just
00:50:52.300 --> 00:50:54.360
going to reap the benefits of that growth, right?
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:56.719
All right. Well, thanks for listening to the
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:59.760
Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.320
when you take action. So subscribe and share
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:04.840
this with a friend. And most importantly, put
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.179
what you learned into practice. Because as we
00:51:07.179 --> 00:51:09.900
know, daily anything changes everything.