The Big Leap 85 - The Love Thief with Arielle Ford
SPEAKERS
Mike Koenigs, Gay Hendricks, Arielle Ford
Arielle Ford
So now I have manifested this trip to India. And I know I made a deal with God. And off I went. Yeah. So no, I understand that I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives. I don't remember saying yes, I'll do this. But clearly I did. And I would read these passages going. I know, there's no way I wrote that. Like where did that. And that's why I know I had a lot of help from the other side.
Gay Hendricks
I'm so excited about this episode, we have one of our dear friends, Arielle Ford, who has written an amazing new book in a field that she doesn't usually excel in the novel side of things instead of 11 nonfiction books, she's come out now with a novel. And there's so much juicy stuff about creativity in our session today, and so much juicy spiritual nugget nuggets, plus a lot of just fun conversation. So I think you'll really enjoy it. Yeah, my favorite part of this was,
Mike Koenigs
we really find out not just the origin story, why Ral wrote it, but how she went about writing a novel in the first place, because like gay said, this isn't your usual go to. And you'll also hear more about how this is being turned into an audiobook, most likely a movie at some point. But more importantly, how she figured out how to do this in the first place. Because the story about writing a novel and the mechanics of it are really, really complex. How about URL? What was your favorite part of this episode? Why should people continue to watch it and listen to it. My favorite part is the fact that I get to spend a whole hour with the two of you. And that both of you as as friends and personalities and creative geniuses actually appear in the book. The wisdom that I've gotten from both of you is actually written into the storyline, even though it doesn't say, you know, these quotes from Gay Hendricks or this one's from like Phoenix. So
Arielle Ford
it's a book that's both fun and funny, as you said, but it also has a lot of mystical and spiritual teachings that come in through the backdoor, through my, my heroine, who is not a seeker. She was not somebody looking for growth. She was forced into it because her life fell apart in every possible way. And she ended up in India, and then the heavens opened up and she was gifted with all kinds of wisdom and changed your life.
Mike Koenigs
Yep, and I will tell you this right now besides just loving this episode, you might as well just head on over to the love thief.com Right now grab yourself a copy. Arielle has got some great bonuses, and it is a lot of fun. And then you get to think about Guess who's who inside that book and figure out who the characters are that Arielle based on the two of us. All right, you're gonna love this episode we'll see on the inside
Mike Koenigs
right, we're here with one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. The greatest manifester I've ever known. Arielle Ford, who just finished her latest book, her first novel, The love thief in gay and I are going to talk to her about that we're not only going to talk about the origin story and what we love about this book, but also about writing a novel which is to me seems like an insurmountable task, I put myself inside that gate. You've written a whole bunch of novels, and Arielle, you've written yours. So first of all, thank you for being here. I've been looking forward to this so long, and let's just dive in and talk about what this experience was like. So gay, do you have any big questions that are on your mind that you think are really important other than the fact that Arielle, thank you for being here? And why did you write this book in the first place?
Arielle Ford
Well, I didn't want to write the book. It was absolutely never on my to do list to write a novel. And what happened was my husband, Brian, who you both know, walked into my office one day, and he said to me, you know, you should write a book about me. And it should be called, I'm married an alien. And I was like, Get out of here. I'm never This is stupid, go away. And when he walked out of the room, I started thinking, well, if I were going to write a book about Brian, like, what would it be? And I realized it, the only thing I could be is about who he is as a human, because I call him my heart chakra on legs. Brian's gig in life is to make sure everybody comes in contact with has the experience of being loved. So it would be a character a loving character. And then I thought that I'm not writing that book and I went on to something else. The next day, the title for the book came to me at the time Idol at that time was the love Wallah. And in India wala is somebody who's the best at what they do. So Brian is a loved wall. And I thought, Wow, that's a cool title. But I'm not going to write a novel. The day after that the first line of the book came. My mother was right. And I was like, Oh my God, that's an amazing opening line. My mother was right. And then the book started to download in my head, like the movie gay, it could have been a spiritual cinema circle movie, I could see the movie, and I could see that it takes place in Rishikesh. But I kept saying, no, no, I am not going to write a novel. I've already written 11 nonfiction books isn't that enough. And then I got an email from masterclass.com That said, Learn to write a thriller with Dan Brown. And I thought, I love Dan Brown, I bought the year pass on signing up. And I sign up for this course. And video number three, he's talking about location as a character in the book, like Vinci Code, the location was Florence Florence was a character in the book. And by that time, the movie in my head had already shown me that was going to be going to Rishikesh India. And I thought, well, that's so fascinating. Russia, cash would be a character in the book I never going to write. Then the movies going on and on and on. And I was getting really annoyed because I'm not going to write this book. And finally, I thought, the universe is speaking to me, what's it trying to say? And I and I decided to talk to God. And I said, You know what, Okay, God, if I'm meant to write this book, then I am going to manifest a business class ticket to India. I'm five foot eight, I cannot sit in coach for 21 hours. And I felt this great sense of relief. Ah, that's never gonna happen. I don't have to write this book. Well, two days later, I run into Mike. And Mike says to me, Hey, Arielle, how are you? What are you up to? And I blurt out, Oh, nothing. I'm just trying to manifest a trip to India. And he says, When do you want to go? And I give him some dates. He looks at his phone. And he says, I'll take you. We had a great time. Last time we went to India. And I was like, yeah. And so now I have manifested this trip to India. And I know I made a deal with God. And off I went at the last minute, poor Mikey couldn't go, he had stuff to do. So I went by myself. And everything I saw in the movie in my head, I was tripping over in Russia cash, I couldn't do anything, but see the movie unfold before my eyes. And then four and a half years later, now it's finally a book. So that's the short story.
Gay Hendricks
You know, as you if I heard you correctly, you heard a line in your head or saw a line in your head, that jingle my memory button, because on one of my books, or one of my novel, mystery novels, it happens the same way I heard a line in my head. And I thought, what kind of a person would even say something like that? And then I started this dialogue, and I found out who my character was Sir Errol Hyde, who's kind of a Victorian dandy 100. And some years ago, he's a Crosstown competitor to Sherlock Holmes. Anyway. The other one, the other series about my Tibetan Buddhist private detective. It didn't happen as a line of dialogue. But it happened as an image. I saw an image of the sky, standing up on the bluffs in the PUFFiT, Pacific Palisades, looking back toward Asia and saying, Am I still an Asian? Or am I an American now? And that was what was going on with him. And then I found out, you know, what do you do for a living? And he said, I'm a private detective. And the whole thing unwound from there, and I was curious in your origin story. Did you begin to dialogue with the characters to find out about them? Or how did you go about that?
Arielle Ford
They started talking to me, I felt like I was schizophrenic. I was invaded. You know, they were like introducing themselves while I'm so and so and this is what I've got to do. And, and it was very distracting. I remember, I had this lunch plan with James Bond Prague. And I got, I got in the car to go to lunch with James. And they started talking to me. And the next thing I knew I was 20 minutes in the wrong direction had never gotten off the freeway. And I only knew because James called and said, where are you at the restaurant? Where are you? And I was like, Oh my God, and of course I missed a lot. lunch, but that's how annoying these characters became. This book was inside me kicking and screaming to come out. I had no choice about it. And you guys are so much a part of this book, I might notice because there's a character that we won't say how much of it is true. But Mikey and gay, you informed my hero. I mean, so much of the time, I heard Gay Hendricks speaking to me and your words, were coming out of my heroes now. So it's just such a joy to be sharing all of this with both of you because literally, the book would not be what it is today without YouTube guys. Huh?
Gay Hendricks
Well, I appreciate you saying that. Hey, you know, before we go any further, could you give us the two minute plot sketch? So I do have a picture to to hang that on?
Arielle Ford
Yeah. So it's a romantic spiritual thriller, with a very juicy revenge subplot. And a surprise, happy ending. And the tagline is, he he stole he, he broke her heart. He crushed her dreams. And then karma intervened.
Gay Hendricks
My somebody's got to know what that karma is.
Arielle Ford
All right. Well, I have a Hollywood producer who's going to turn it into a limited series. And she accurately calls the book she says it's Eat Pray Love Me to dirty John. And that is exactly what it is.
Gay Hendricks
That's a fantastic pitch line. I love that. I can't wait to see that. I've been to Rishikesh, India. And it was a very formative place in my life because I learned TM way back there 50 years ago, and then I always wanted to go see where all that sort of thing came from. And so it was a real transformative journey for me to get up there. I don't know if I'd recognize it today from where it was 40 years ago, which was the last time
Arielle Ford
I think that Yes, you know, there's ashrams everywhere, the goddess Ganga is flowing through the middle, the Beatles ashram, which what they now call the TM place hasn't really changed. It's just overgrown. You know, it's not an act. It's it's, it's marinating, you know, but yeah, I think you would totally recognize that there's, there's no fancy hotels, there is one very high price place and our way, but the Russia cash itself, I don't think has changed much in 40 years.
Gay Hendricks
When I was in India, I was doing it the long hair, Granny glasses, backpacker, dope smoking way. And so I don't think I ever stayed in a hotel that cost more than five bucks. And maybe a lot of them cost two bucks up in the outback of the Himalayas there. Well, I found Rishikesh a really fascinating place. And I'd forgotten about the word Wallah. Until you mentioned it, but my favorite restaurant in Rishikesh was Chotiwala, I don't know if it's still there or not. But toady means food. And while I mean, you know, the guy that brings the food very well, and all that. So, what was your process? Like in writing this novel?
Arielle Ford
You know, it was so different, because in nonfiction, I sit down every day, and I write 500 words a day, and in six months, I have a book and, and it it's, I don't know, sort of structured, this was not structured, because I never really believed I was going to finish it. And I would just sort of, you know, I would sit in the bathtub every morning and think, Okay, well, this is what happened to Holly yesterday, what's going to happen to her today, and then ideas would just come to me, and I would just write. And then the really crazy thing that happened was, I turned into this very insecure, geeky person who needed constant reassurance and feedback. So I started sending my early pages to all my friends, because I had, you know, I know that I'm a strong nonfiction writer, but I had no way to know if the story I was telling was interesting, or if it was good. So I would send it to my friends, and then they would send me an email, oh, God, I hated your villain from page one. It's great, keep going, or I'd send it to somebody else. And then I would print out the emails, and I put them all around my office, and every time I got insecure, I'd start reading again. So it really, it really revealed a part of myself that I had to learn to love. Because I'm not used to being insecure. If anything, I'm overconfident, most of the time. It's like I know, I'm good at what I do, and I know how to do shit. But this you know, I was telling somebody the other day, it's kind of like, you know, when I when I try to explain the difference between writing nonfiction and fiction for me, the only the only meeting point was that there are words in both other than that there, it's totally different stuff. It's like, I could be the best person in the world doing Mani patties, and then stopped a gay walks and hands me a scalpel and says tomorrow you do brain surgery. That's a leap of writing for me for writing fiction.
Mike Koenigs
Wow, I've got one for you. Oh, go ahead, gay.
Gay Hendricks
Beginning to end, how long did it take you?
Arielle Ford
Four and a half years. Because I was writing and rewriting and editing. And my agent was really pushing me. I had two different outside editors and two different book doctors. And I wrote a lot of it during the pandemic. So there was a whole pandemic thing that went through it. And then once I got to the next version of the ending, one of the book doctor said to me, every mention of the pandemics gotta go, we're all sick and tired of the pandemic, we don't want to hear about it ever again. So I basically had to rewrite every page to take out the references in the storylines. So it was, it was a very, very long process. Because I was learning how to write, you know, I the whole show, don't tell, that doesn't really exist in nonfiction. You know, dialogue doesn't really exist. The one book, I have a book here, I'm gonna show it to everybody. This is the book that saved my life. It's called the emotion, the Saurus. And on every page, let's say, Okay, you want to show disgust. So the definition of disgust is in here, and then it gives you all the physical things about what Disgust is. So if you have to describe, you know, Gabe was really disgusted with Katie about such and such. So hands up backing away with a shutter, you know, dry washing the hands, whatever. This is, basically how I learned to write dialogue.
Gay Hendricks
Should have given us one of those when we were learning therapy back in my therapy training days, that would have saved everybody a lot of trouble.
Arielle Ford
Yeah, it's, it's a trip, I have to say, but now that it's done, now that it's done, I can, I can say lots of good things with a I'm very proud of myself that I did it. I got it done. I'm happy with the book. I love the cover. Love, love, love the cover. The longest chapter in the book is the acknowledgments. Because I had so much help I had to have everybody thanked me. So it's, it's turned out to be one of the biggest best things I've ever done. But the actual process was pure torture.
Gay Hendricks
Yeah. Well, hopefully you learned enough about yourself along the way to make the torture worth the while because God seems to have a vested interest in getting this book out into the world.
Arielle Ford
Yeah, so no, I understand that I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives. I don't remember saying yes, I'll do this. But clearly, I did. And clearly you guys signed up to be a part of it. So I'm just taking direction at this point. You know, people keep saying, well, what's the sequel? It's like, I don't want to have that conversation. Let me let me you know, raise this one, right, right now, you know, the water broke and the baby came out. You know, let's, let's get a little further down the road before we talk about what I do it again. Because sitting here today, I'd have to say no, I can't imagine.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Ever since I met you. It's always this is the last book I'm ever going to write. I'm never going to do this again. And you create a new adventure in your head that makes it fun for you. So it's not, you know, hellacious? Well, I
Arielle Ford
will admit the title has already shown up. Okay. The movie hasn't started. So if the movie starts, that's a whole different ballgame.
Mike Koenigs
i Yeah, that which, which kind of brings us to one of the things that's on your mind is doing? A Can we talk about the audio book a little bit? for that? Okay, so I'll set it up a little bit, because you love entertainment in the fact that you saw this as a movie, I think speaks volumes. And you and Brian will all of us are huge movie fans. You know, we just love the journey. And the variety. And this thing lends itself very, very well, especially when you read it to not only being a great audio book, especially the way you're visualizing it, but a movie as well. And I was just gone this past weekend and a friend of mine created a play. I saw it for the first time and it's a play about Lloyd Price who was the first entertainer that's he did Latinas, Claudie and personality. Those are two of those hits. But he did many, many, many hits. But he's the first entertainer who created his own record label. And he happens to be African American. He also did a show called turntable that was broadcast live from New York City. He did a ton of firsts, she helped Sam Cooke. Early on, and many, many, many people really create their careers in music. But he also inspired a lot of African Americans who reached financial independence by modeling him. So I bring all that up, only because at this moment, we have a writer's strike going on, we've got an actor strike going on, at this point in history, a lot is changing and entertainment. And you have a tendency to lead the way as a visionary even its as an accidental visionary. So I'm just curious, what shows up when you hear all that stuff for you with regards to both the audio book, the movie, and what's gonna go on what could happen in the entertainment world?
Arielle Ford
Well, well, the movie is on hold. Right now nothing's happening at all. But the audio book, I'm going to start moving forward on because I, there are plenty of voice actors that are not part of sag, or, or the writers group and, and the words exist, I've already written the words. So my vision for the audio book is that it'd be a full cast audio, every character will have his or her own voice. There'll be a soundtrack. And there'll be sound effects, because it's India, and there's no more greater place for sound effects. And so I already have my, you know, Saad VG, you know, at her ashram, she has a huge AV department, they are already capturing the sound effects, and the soundtrack of our tea and all the music they have every day, they're already giving me original music to use for that I've already found the casting director, I've already got the sound guy who's going to has a long history in the Edit thing. And now I'm trying to learn as best I can, all the pieces that we need, like we had to make a character breakdown in order to do the cast, which means I have to give a description as you know, who is Holly like in terms of a Hollywood person? What does she sound like? Here are samples of that actress on interviews? What, for the audition tape, you know, what dialogue do we want to have them record. And then this is the hard part, I have to come up with the exact word count of every single character. And then also, where are the characters conversing, so that we can figure out how to pay them, because they get paid either by the word the hour or the day. Right. And then we have to structure the schedule, because even though it can all be done remotely now, you know, so I have to become a line producer. And project managing is not my thing. I'm a creative, I don't want to be a project manager. But having talked to your friend, I can't remember his name. And some other people, there isn't exactly a line producer out there, that's done this level of forecast audio that I want. That has experience. So I'm I'm gonna have to figure this part out. And then maybe you guys can hold the space. For me, my dream for this audio book is that I win the Grammy for Best Spoken Word.
Mike Koenigs
Hmm. You know, as you're telling that story, you know, there is a talent pool that you could draw from, which is public radio has been producing talkie style shows for a long time. There are editors out there and I would look up I'll think of the name in a second, but there are a couple well known FM NPR shows that are like, if you go back to Garrison Keillor. I mean, that was performance plays as radio. And I, I would bet you can find some people who would love to do something like this who know how to create what used to be old timey radio,
Arielle Ford
right, but it's the project manager hold all the pieces, you know, tell everybody when to show up person, you know, because the guy that I've got, and I'll send you his credentials are phenomenal. You know, and I've already there's there's a new audio book out called, oh, God, I'm not gonna think of the name of it now. But Nicole Kidman is the lead character and, and she is a psychiatrist who has a young girl patient who basically talks to dead people. And I listened to the sample of it and of course it's got music and sound effects. And I thought this is the gold standard of where I want to be the level of drama in the conversation even though you can't see it, you can feel every piece of it and the music works so well. So I have this big vision. And I have a very, very tiny budget, because I'm funding this thing. So this is my, my next big project. I'm super excited about it. You know, there's a part of in my head that says, Don't you think you should go back to work and earn some money? And then there's this other parts like, yeah, someday, but I gotta do this first. Yeah. I love it.
Mike Koenigs
I love it. Okay, I've got one more story related question, which is, pick your favorite chapter or scene? What is it? And why?
Arielle Ford
Oh, that's so easy. I'll tell you exactly. What do you want me to read it to you? Sure. Okay, let me let me figure.
Gay Hendricks
I have another question for you too. Once you've finished that.
Arielle Ford
Let's see. Did I put it in here? You know, I don't remember where it is. But my favorite scene is so so Holly is gone to India. Her heart is broken. She's on this roller coaster of sadness and depression and betrayal and grief. And when she's not there she's in extreme anger and rage and intensity and hay and wants revenge more than anything. And you know now she's with this Brian light character this week who have named Deepak because in India, Deepak just like John or Bob or Steve, it's very common name. And he's her her love wall up. And she basically says to him, you know, I just want to be loved. You know, why can't I just be loved? Did Barry ever really love me? Barry's the toxic narcissist. And so Deepak explains to her the one on one about toxic narcissists. How charming and smart they are and charismatic and blah, blah, blah. And at the end of it, he says to her, Oh, she says, Did he ever love me? And Deepak says to her, asking a man like this to love you, is like asking a man with no arms to hold you. simply impossible. And that's the start. That's the turning point to her growth, where she starts to really see that her lifelong dream of the white picket fence and Prince Charming on a white horse is just a map. And that's not what love really is.
Gay Hendricks
Okay, we're sitting around the casting table. And we've got a bunch of eight by 10 glossies of very prominent actresses. Who are a couple of them that could play your leading character.
Arielle Ford
Yes. And let me just find my breakdown. Because I've I've done all that thinking, but of course, I can't remember thing. anything anymore. Oh, gosh. I'm gonna have to find this document. Because literally all those names I have, and I have forgotten them. Okay, there's a file on here somewhere called Audio? Where is it? I don't know. Oh, sorry. Sorry, guys. Kisara. I can't pull it out. Where is it? Let me search this way under?
Mike Koenigs
Well, while she's looking, I'm gonna continue the entertainment so that you'll just interrupt us. So gay when you listen to this? What's showing up for you? Are you inspired to create something different? or new is this? How is this resonating with you as a creator? And a storyteller?
Gay Hendricks
Well, good question. Because I'm in a very different place. In 2012. I just got this novel writing bug. And it only took me a couple of months to write my first one. And then I was going to rest for a couple of days. But then I'd already thought of how the next one went. And so I literally started the next day working on the next one. And so within the first six months, I'd written you know, two and a half mystery novels. And it was like I was on fire and just couldn't stop. And I went that way through really ate two of which are not published yet. And I was just on fire with him. For some reasons that that has concluded I. I can't imagine ever writing another one of those. And the same thing with my SIR Errol Hyde character. I've written five about him and they are at a completion now. I told the story and I told the story of the Tibetan Buddhist detective. I brought them all in for a landing you know And so they're there. And I frankly, I can't even remember writing them. I mean, it's a pretty extreme thing to do to crank out a dozen novels in 10 years or so. But I really, I was so consumed in it. I just don't remember it the moment the actual act of writing the ball.
Arielle Ford
Hmm. Okay, I found it. I. So my lead character, Holly, my ideal actress would be Kristen Bell. I mean, she kind of looks like her and she talks like her. And, you know, she's she's been out there a long time. I really liked her. And for Barry, the villain, the toxic narcissist. I'll be so disappointed if it isn't, there isn't Bobby Cannavale. You know, he's just perfect for it. So those are two and then Holly's mother. I would really love to have somebody like Laura Dern. So I've been able to put all this into the breakdown so we can get that sort of feel and that sort of thing. But I'm glad I don't work in casting for a living. I mean, it's, it's not easy. And the way my casting directors described it, as you know, he's going to go out why to hundreds of people, and they're going to send in tapes, audition tapes, and then he's going to do the first cut, and then give me a bunch to choose from, does this sound like the right voice? And, you know, and then I also found out that because voice actors are actors, one person could potentially play, you know, five different roles. And for your role, Mike, I'm, it's a Neil Patrick Harris kind of person. Yeah, I mean, because in the book, you're gay, ah,
Mike Koenigs
yeah, I'm good with that. It's, I know that you did such a great job. I wish there will be a time when we can talk about, you know, the basis or where that came from.
Arielle Ford
We have all kinds of disclaimers in the book, that it's a work of fiction, always inspired by actual events, names and circumstances. And my, my entertainment attorney had me spend a ton of money buying errors and omissions insurance. And so so it's a work of fiction, just based a character on my Mikey. So
Mike Koenigs
yeah, we had a lot of fun, and it'll make for it made for great cocktail discussion on when, you know, you had the Warwick book tour, which is 125 year old books are one of the last and oldest independent booksellers in the world, which is such a treat, and he did such an amazing job performing and, and I You're such a great speaker, it was great to watch you. And I have a follow up question that's not exactly related, but any commentary about the book launch party and who was there because you had a taste and a piece of so many of your best of friends and connections that go back many decades. Don't even say how long for some of them. But
Arielle Ford
now it was the Warwick event was really a highlight in my life. It was so much fun. There were 75 people, I knew all of them. I've known some of them for decades. So it's very warm crowd. And it was just, it was just so much fun just to be in such a friendly atmosphere where, you know, basically, all I had to do was stand there and people were laughing. It was just, it was just a big giggle. It was super fun. I haven't planned any other book events, because there's no way I'm gonna get 75 People in Phoenix or Boulder, you know, are saying Oh, and so I'm not gonna go on any kind of tour. But it was fun. I am doing a bunch of podcasts and, and what's really gratifying about the podcast is that unlike a book tour, we used to do a lot of radio shows and your publicists would send a list of questions, and they would just run down the list of questions. They never read your book ever. Yeah. So to be doing podcasts with people who have read the book and liked the book, it's just so much more fun because they have their own particular what they liked, you know, what really moved them, you know, ask interesting questions. So that's been really fun, you know, being able to interact with people that have actually read the book.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, it was so much fun. Well, I'm going to ask another question if that's okay, gay. That will lead into a good setup for you I think, which is channeling characters and Storytelling. And now I've been reading the dune series, which to me is one of the most amazing works of fiction ever. It's so beautiful and complex in the level of the literally, your mind paints a picture of a beautiful movie, and you're experiencing so many different points of view and so many different eyeballs. And the other one that I really love, and it's a great series on Apple TV. I know you're not a science fiction fan, but it's the it's the characters in storytelling that matter. But it's it's Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, again, really, really complex psychology, human psychology. And that, to me is what fiction and novels are all about. It's just the complexities and nuances of humans. And I'm curious, like, when you're channeling the characters and gay, mentioned something along this lines, he said, I don't even remember writing this stuff. So talk about like, the spiritual practice of writing, and how your brain actually goes in and taps into something that is truly universal God consciousness. I'm curious for both of you what that's like, but Arielle, you first?
Arielle Ford
Well, even you know, I had to read the book so many times during the line edit, because, you know, I was so spoiled. I always had big publishers, you know, by the time I got a book, it was just, you know, answer these questions. But I had to read it over and over and over looking for every missing space and comma, and I would read these passages going, I know, there's no way I wrote that, like, where did that come from? Like, did I go into some hyper state into another dimension, where I channeled it and so that, that's been sort of a spooky experience. And now because it's like, really, I, and that's why I know, I had a lot of help from the other side. So the whole experience, for me has been a spiritual growth, evolution. Because I don't, I mean, yeah, my imagination isn't really big enough to have created this.
Gay Hendricks
That's exactly the same way I feel too, because, you know, I know what my imagination is like, but some sort of thing happened, where I go into a different space. And then it just comes and, you know, like, on a couple of my books, I'd been right at the end. And it hadn't revealed itself yet how to put all the pieces together. And so just having to hang out in that void in that creative void. And then all of a sudden, whoosh, somewhere out of nowhere, it all comes together. And I know, you know, part of it, at least is happening in my brain. But I don't even recognize that part of my brain that can do that kind of thing. So I know, we have to have help from something else.
Arielle Ford
You just reminded me of something. So I told you that in the beginning, the title of the book was the love Wallah. But I didn't tell you is when I got it to a UK book doctor, when it came back. They strongly recommended I changed the title. And I was like hell, but I'm so attached to the title, why? And they said, well, in the UK, calling somebody a Wallah is a racial slur. So the UK publishers won't buy the book with that title. So as I got really, to the very end of the final editing thing, I knew I needed a new title. And I was sitting up in bed one night is like midnight, Brian was sound asleep. It was dark outside. And I started talking to my dead sister. And I was like, Debbie, I have this idea for a title. But I don't know if it's the title. It's the love thief. If that's the title, could you send me a sign? And instantly I saw a falling star? And that's fine. Do you know so? Yes, we were definitely getting help from the other side.
Gay Hendricks
Well, also that is such a great title, too. When I first saw it, I thought, Wow. You know, it's it's so easy to see that in a movie too. I mean, who wouldn't want to watch that? Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
I agree. So we've talked about what next which is, I don't know I gotta get past this. First. We talked about the audio book. We talked about the movie which is on hold, and if there were to be a sequel, what could happen next, like how could this turn into a series or Um, you know, just imagine, yeah.
Arielle Ford
Well, you know, somebody at that booksigning like, remember auric said, you know, you're known as a spiritual person. And yet you're writing about revenge. How do you make all that thing? Oh, that sounds good. I was awesome. My newsletter tomorrow is all about my confession, my dark side because I love true crime. You know, I love murder and mayhem. And I And and I also, okay, you'll get this get enough Michael get this. But my dream job had I lived in the late 60s would have been to be part of Nixon special tricks committee.
Mike Koenigs
Oh, hell yeah.
Arielle Ford
Concept of revenge. And getting back at people really appeals to me. So the sequel would be about, you know, looking like you're really nice, typical soccer mom, who, by day, and by night, she's the queen of revenge, or something in that would work. Because, you know, as my sister taught, you know, we are both the dark and the light. And still to this day, and 2023. Most people don't want to admit to their dark side. Well, not you, Mike, because that's one of the first things you share with us. But it's, you know, for me, I think it's really important that we acknowledge and then and then the other part of it is that, you know, especially when it comes to karma, you know, people think they need to be really careful, because they don't want to include bad karma. I once I was once in one of my revenge modes, and I was saying to, to, who was it Stewart Stewart, who's our friend Stuart from TLC Stewart and Joni Emery. Thanks, Stewart Emery? Well, I really wanted to hire a hitman to take care of so and so. But I didn't want to include the bad karma. And Stuart said to me, Well, when I was in India, with whatever guru, he was saying, at the time, he said, we were taught that it's the role of the spiritual warrior, to take out the threat to the community. And by taking out a person like that, you would not include bad karma, because you would do you would be doing something good. And ever since Stuart shared that with me, it sort of shifted my whole take up. You know, what, if you are eliminating somebody who's doing harm, then that's a good act, then you are a spiritual warrior. So I don't know if that answered your question. But that's my answer.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, no, I, as you were talking about that, the setup for that would be a priest, a rabbi, nun and Hitman walk into a bar. And what they do is they become the team and there's some series, I'm trying to think of what it is, but there's a series where they're not necessarily real, but they they are a hitman, and one of them isn't, is a priest. One of them is a nun. And they all are basically hitman, who are doing all sorts of chaotic things. And it's all revenge, that you look at you like, yep, that's fine. You know, you'd like the bad people are so bad. You're just like, Yep, they're just getting what they deserve.
Arielle Ford
That's why I was like that series that now. Queen Latif has taken over for TV, but it was a movie. Oh, god, what's the name of that thing? We're, he's bringing justice to the universe. It was where she is. She's the person you go to when nobody else can help you. Oh, god, my poor memory. Anyway. I like what you're saying. Like, I love that a priest, a guru and none of them walk into a bar. That's my kind of book or shell. Yeah, totally. I love that.
Gay Hendricks
It sounds like that thing. Were preached a nun walk into a bar and the bartender says, What is this some kind of joke?
Mike Koenigs
It is a great setup. Okay. Well,
Gay Hendricks
I was talking about by the way, speaking of setups, I wrote a screenplay once. Never got anywhere with it. Called torment. And it was about this subject. It was about a service that you could buy. So that after your death, it would be like a little insurance policy. But after your death, this company would go out of its way to torment people that had pissed you off during your lifetime. Oh, God. Yes,
Arielle Ford
I would watch that in a heartbeat. The show I was thinking I was called the equalizer, but it was a serious experience. So the equalizer was a hitman. He was taking people out, but you were rooting for him. The people out so deserved it. Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
the Punisher was another one. A Marvel version of that same theme. And yeah, there have been a few of those. So it's like, such a great universal theme. Here's another one is a distant one. But I just watched a movie called sisu shsu. And basically, it is a thin during right around the end of World War Two. And it's basically this guy has got nothing left, who's basically had found some gold. He's just a barely survivor from the war. And Nazis come along and steal it from them and all hell breaks loose. And everyone who's seen it's like, yep, you just can't You can't go wrong with a Nazi revenge movie. And I think that it's it's fantastic. By the way I looked at the preview, I'm like, Yeah, I don't know if I want to watch this, but it's fantastic. shsu Yep. But I think there's, there's so much to go on here because you can you literally can go from a love story to a revenge story. And build on that, you know, there's there's a bajillion different kinds of directions, it's just a matter of, you know, knowing who your audience is, which is maybe my last question I have for you is, Who Have you imagined the reader, the consumer of this book to be who is the perfect buyer, who's the kind of person who's just gonna love this, and at the end, go, God, I'm so sad, it's over with I want more.
Arielle Ford
You know, I really feel like I know my reader. I think they're my friends. You know, these are people who love a good book, they like a good beach read. And they also are interested in in the woowoo part of life and, and some growth and they've and they love to travel. And they like to cook because there are recipes in the book, my heroines Rishikesh going to cooking school, so there's plenty of recipes in there. So it's, you know, it's part I think, you know, a Pray Love me to study John is really the best description of it. You know, if you like those kinds of things, if you enjoy reading, people have told me they they've read it in one or two days. It's a very fast paced, fast moving thing. And one of the best lines I got was from our friend, Natalie Ledwell, who said that this book leaves you so completely satisfied. You'll want a proverbial cigarette.
Gay Hendricks
That's really good. I love that. That's great. So that's fantastic. Well, we really wish you well with it. It's a very exciting book and very exciting process. And, you know, friend labor, which says, most people if they get the urge to write should just lie down and eat something sweet until the feeling passes. And
Arielle Ford
I agree with
Gay Hendricks
Well, I'm glad you didn't do that, though. I'm glad you persevered. Because you came out the other side, happy and healthy and whole and with a great new story to share with the world.
Arielle Ford
Thank you. And I'm so grateful to both of you. Because really, I don't know that you'll ever get how much of YouTube are infused in that story.
Gay Hendricks
Happy to donate a part of myself to it. That's great. I was proud. Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
it's the most effortless give ever. That's, that's that's good. And when I when you told me that I was in there, but you wouldn't tell me what, who I was, you know, I had to sit and stew for a little while ago. I don't know, what did I do now. But I had a moment of feeling like I was 12 and got caught doing something terrible. My mom used to say Michael Arnold Canucks. And I knew I was in big trouble. But
Mike Koenigs
so obviously, people can go to the love thief.com can't believe you got that domain because it's like, God, it's such a good name. They can get the book, they can get a whole bunch of cool bonuses that you give away. And of course, we're going to ask that they leave a fabulous five star comment and review because that right now is one of the things you need to get are more reviews for this book. But what else would you like to share about you know, the reason why they should go grab this right now the fact I'm telling you to do it?
Arielle Ford
You know, I It's kind of like it's like, it's like a healthy meal that tastes good, right? There's a lot of good juicy life nuggets in there. But you may not want to sit down and read a how to book but then it's all delivered through the backdoor through this story about this interesting woman whose life is falling apart. Who ends up you know, having all her dreams come true, just not in the way she planned to have them happen.
Gay Hendricks
Okay, great work. Thanks a lot. for sharing it with us, sorry.
Arielle Ford
Thank you so much.
Mike Koenigs
Right on. All right, well, I'll wrap this thing up with you know exactly what to do. It rhymes with go by love thief now.com. Now the love thief.com Grab the book,
Mike Koenigs
maybe get two copies, send one to your friends. You know, it's super easy to give gifts when you've got Amazon Prime, and make sure you head over and leave that review as well. It is it really is a very fun funny read. And I can't say what chapter I'm in there, but you won't have to guess very long. And then, and then it's none of its true. None of its true. Okay, just for the record. And it is it's fun and you're supporting one of my favorite people in the universe is one of the greatest manifester is and she wouldn't be such a great manifester. She wouldn't have gotten that ticket for free in the first place. But I you know, I had forgotten I had bought that for you until you told the story. I'm like yeah, and I don't remember what was going on why couldn't go at that point and visit with you. But I I'm looking forward to heading back and I hope we can go to India again sometime together soon. So with that, this is the big leap. It's been an absolute pleasure spending time with you. I hope you share this episode with someone you love and care about, and of course, gay and I love your comments, feedback and five star reviews as well because that helps more people find the show. So thank you, Arielle. Thank you again. We'll see in the next episode. Thanks so much.
SPEAKERS
Mike Koenigs, Gay Hendricks, Arielle Ford
Arielle Ford
So now I have manifested this trip to India. And I know I made a deal with God. And off I went. Yeah. So no, I understand that I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives. I don't remember saying yes, I'll do this. But clearly I did. And I would read these passages going. I know, there's no way I wrote that. Like where did that. And that's why I know I had a lot of help from the other side.
Gay Hendricks
I'm so excited about this episode, we have one of our dear friends, Arielle Ford, who has written an amazing new book in a field that she doesn't usually excel in the novel side of things instead of 11 nonfiction books, she's come out now with a novel. And there's so much juicy stuff about creativity in our session today, and so much juicy spiritual nugget nuggets, plus a lot of just fun conversation. So I think you'll really enjoy it. Yeah, my favorite part of this was,
Mike Koenigs
we really find out not just the origin story, why Ral wrote it, but how she went about writing a novel in the first place, because like gay said, this isn't your usual go to. And you'll also hear more about how this is being turned into an audiobook, most likely a movie at some point. But more importantly, how she figured out how to do this in the first place. Because the story about writing a novel and the mechanics of it are really, really complex. How about URL? What was your favorite part of this episode? Why should people continue to watch it and listen to it. My favorite part is the fact that I get to spend a whole hour with the two of you. And that both of you as as friends and personalities and creative geniuses actually appear in the book. The wisdom that I've gotten from both of you is actually written into the storyline, even though it doesn't say, you know, these quotes from Gay Hendricks or this one's from like Phoenix. So
Arielle Ford
it's a book that's both fun and funny, as you said, but it also has a lot of mystical and spiritual teachings that come in through the backdoor, through my, my heroine, who is not a seeker. She was not somebody looking for growth. She was forced into it because her life fell apart in every possible way. And she ended up in India, and then the heavens opened up and she was gifted with all kinds of wisdom and changed your life.
Mike Koenigs
Yep, and I will tell you this right now besides just loving this episode, you might as well just head on over to the love thief.com Right now grab yourself a copy. Arielle has got some great bonuses, and it is a lot of fun. And then you get to think about Guess who's who inside that book and figure out who the characters are that Arielle based on the two of us. All right, you're gonna love this episode we'll see on the inside
Mike Koenigs
right, we're here with one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. The greatest manifester I've ever known. Arielle Ford, who just finished her latest book, her first novel, The love thief in gay and I are going to talk to her about that we're not only going to talk about the origin story and what we love about this book, but also about writing a novel which is to me seems like an insurmountable task, I put myself inside that gate. You've written a whole bunch of novels, and Arielle, you've written yours. So first of all, thank you for being here. I've been looking forward to this so long, and let's just dive in and talk about what this experience was like. So gay, do you have any big questions that are on your mind that you think are really important other than the fact that Arielle, thank you for being here? And why did you write this book in the first place?
Arielle Ford
Well, I didn't want to write the book. It was absolutely never on my to do list to write a novel. And what happened was my husband, Brian, who you both know, walked into my office one day, and he said to me, you know, you should write a book about me. And it should be called, I'm married an alien. And I was like, Get out of here. I'm never This is stupid, go away. And when he walked out of the room, I started thinking, well, if I were going to write a book about Brian, like, what would it be? And I realized it, the only thing I could be is about who he is as a human, because I call him my heart chakra on legs. Brian's gig in life is to make sure everybody comes in contact with has the experience of being loved. So it would be a character a loving character. And then I thought that I'm not writing that book and I went on to something else. The next day, the title for the book came to me at the time Idol at that time was the love Wallah. And in India wala is somebody who's the best at what they do. So Brian is a loved wall. And I thought, Wow, that's a cool title. But I'm not going to write a novel. The day after that the first line of the book came. My mother was right. And I was like, Oh my God, that's an amazing opening line. My mother was right. And then the book started to download in my head, like the movie gay, it could have been a spiritual cinema circle movie, I could see the movie, and I could see that it takes place in Rishikesh. But I kept saying, no, no, I am not going to write a novel. I've already written 11 nonfiction books isn't that enough. And then I got an email from masterclass.com That said, Learn to write a thriller with Dan Brown. And I thought, I love Dan Brown, I bought the year pass on signing up. And I sign up for this course. And video number three, he's talking about location as a character in the book, like Vinci Code, the location was Florence Florence was a character in the book. And by that time, the movie in my head had already shown me that was going to be going to Rishikesh India. And I thought, well, that's so fascinating. Russia, cash would be a character in the book I never going to write. Then the movies going on and on and on. And I was getting really annoyed because I'm not going to write this book. And finally, I thought, the universe is speaking to me, what's it trying to say? And I and I decided to talk to God. And I said, You know what, Okay, God, if I'm meant to write this book, then I am going to manifest a business class ticket to India. I'm five foot eight, I cannot sit in coach for 21 hours. And I felt this great sense of relief. Ah, that's never gonna happen. I don't have to write this book. Well, two days later, I run into Mike. And Mike says to me, Hey, Arielle, how are you? What are you up to? And I blurt out, Oh, nothing. I'm just trying to manifest a trip to India. And he says, When do you want to go? And I give him some dates. He looks at his phone. And he says, I'll take you. We had a great time. Last time we went to India. And I was like, yeah. And so now I have manifested this trip to India. And I know I made a deal with God. And off I went at the last minute, poor Mikey couldn't go, he had stuff to do. So I went by myself. And everything I saw in the movie in my head, I was tripping over in Russia cash, I couldn't do anything, but see the movie unfold before my eyes. And then four and a half years later, now it's finally a book. So that's the short story.
Gay Hendricks
You know, as you if I heard you correctly, you heard a line in your head or saw a line in your head, that jingle my memory button, because on one of my books, or one of my novel, mystery novels, it happens the same way I heard a line in my head. And I thought, what kind of a person would even say something like that? And then I started this dialogue, and I found out who my character was Sir Errol Hyde, who's kind of a Victorian dandy 100. And some years ago, he's a Crosstown competitor to Sherlock Holmes. Anyway. The other one, the other series about my Tibetan Buddhist private detective. It didn't happen as a line of dialogue. But it happened as an image. I saw an image of the sky, standing up on the bluffs in the PUFFiT, Pacific Palisades, looking back toward Asia and saying, Am I still an Asian? Or am I an American now? And that was what was going on with him. And then I found out, you know, what do you do for a living? And he said, I'm a private detective. And the whole thing unwound from there, and I was curious in your origin story. Did you begin to dialogue with the characters to find out about them? Or how did you go about that?
Arielle Ford
They started talking to me, I felt like I was schizophrenic. I was invaded. You know, they were like introducing themselves while I'm so and so and this is what I've got to do. And, and it was very distracting. I remember, I had this lunch plan with James Bond Prague. And I got, I got in the car to go to lunch with James. And they started talking to me. And the next thing I knew I was 20 minutes in the wrong direction had never gotten off the freeway. And I only knew because James called and said, where are you at the restaurant? Where are you? And I was like, Oh my God, and of course I missed a lot. lunch, but that's how annoying these characters became. This book was inside me kicking and screaming to come out. I had no choice about it. And you guys are so much a part of this book, I might notice because there's a character that we won't say how much of it is true. But Mikey and gay, you informed my hero. I mean, so much of the time, I heard Gay Hendricks speaking to me and your words, were coming out of my heroes now. So it's just such a joy to be sharing all of this with both of you because literally, the book would not be what it is today without YouTube guys. Huh?
Gay Hendricks
Well, I appreciate you saying that. Hey, you know, before we go any further, could you give us the two minute plot sketch? So I do have a picture to to hang that on?
Arielle Ford
Yeah. So it's a romantic spiritual thriller, with a very juicy revenge subplot. And a surprise, happy ending. And the tagline is, he he stole he, he broke her heart. He crushed her dreams. And then karma intervened.
Gay Hendricks
My somebody's got to know what that karma is.
Arielle Ford
All right. Well, I have a Hollywood producer who's going to turn it into a limited series. And she accurately calls the book she says it's Eat Pray Love Me to dirty John. And that is exactly what it is.
Gay Hendricks
That's a fantastic pitch line. I love that. I can't wait to see that. I've been to Rishikesh, India. And it was a very formative place in my life because I learned TM way back there 50 years ago, and then I always wanted to go see where all that sort of thing came from. And so it was a real transformative journey for me to get up there. I don't know if I'd recognize it today from where it was 40 years ago, which was the last time
Arielle Ford
I think that Yes, you know, there's ashrams everywhere, the goddess Ganga is flowing through the middle, the Beatles ashram, which what they now call the TM place hasn't really changed. It's just overgrown. You know, it's not an act. It's it's, it's marinating, you know, but yeah, I think you would totally recognize that there's, there's no fancy hotels, there is one very high price place and our way, but the Russia cash itself, I don't think has changed much in 40 years.
Gay Hendricks
When I was in India, I was doing it the long hair, Granny glasses, backpacker, dope smoking way. And so I don't think I ever stayed in a hotel that cost more than five bucks. And maybe a lot of them cost two bucks up in the outback of the Himalayas there. Well, I found Rishikesh a really fascinating place. And I'd forgotten about the word Wallah. Until you mentioned it, but my favorite restaurant in Rishikesh was Chotiwala, I don't know if it's still there or not. But toady means food. And while I mean, you know, the guy that brings the food very well, and all that. So, what was your process? Like in writing this novel?
Arielle Ford
You know, it was so different, because in nonfiction, I sit down every day, and I write 500 words a day, and in six months, I have a book and, and it it's, I don't know, sort of structured, this was not structured, because I never really believed I was going to finish it. And I would just sort of, you know, I would sit in the bathtub every morning and think, Okay, well, this is what happened to Holly yesterday, what's going to happen to her today, and then ideas would just come to me, and I would just write. And then the really crazy thing that happened was, I turned into this very insecure, geeky person who needed constant reassurance and feedback. So I started sending my early pages to all my friends, because I had, you know, I know that I'm a strong nonfiction writer, but I had no way to know if the story I was telling was interesting, or if it was good. So I would send it to my friends, and then they would send me an email, oh, God, I hated your villain from page one. It's great, keep going, or I'd send it to somebody else. And then I would print out the emails, and I put them all around my office, and every time I got insecure, I'd start reading again. So it really, it really revealed a part of myself that I had to learn to love. Because I'm not used to being insecure. If anything, I'm overconfident, most of the time. It's like I know, I'm good at what I do, and I know how to do shit. But this you know, I was telling somebody the other day, it's kind of like, you know, when I when I try to explain the difference between writing nonfiction and fiction for me, the only the only meeting point was that there are words in both other than that there, it's totally different stuff. It's like, I could be the best person in the world doing Mani patties, and then stopped a gay walks and hands me a scalpel and says tomorrow you do brain surgery. That's a leap of writing for me for writing fiction.
Mike Koenigs
Wow, I've got one for you. Oh, go ahead, gay.
Gay Hendricks
Beginning to end, how long did it take you?
Arielle Ford
Four and a half years. Because I was writing and rewriting and editing. And my agent was really pushing me. I had two different outside editors and two different book doctors. And I wrote a lot of it during the pandemic. So there was a whole pandemic thing that went through it. And then once I got to the next version of the ending, one of the book doctor said to me, every mention of the pandemics gotta go, we're all sick and tired of the pandemic, we don't want to hear about it ever again. So I basically had to rewrite every page to take out the references in the storylines. So it was, it was a very, very long process. Because I was learning how to write, you know, I the whole show, don't tell, that doesn't really exist in nonfiction. You know, dialogue doesn't really exist. The one book, I have a book here, I'm gonna show it to everybody. This is the book that saved my life. It's called the emotion, the Saurus. And on every page, let's say, Okay, you want to show disgust. So the definition of disgust is in here, and then it gives you all the physical things about what Disgust is. So if you have to describe, you know, Gabe was really disgusted with Katie about such and such. So hands up backing away with a shutter, you know, dry washing the hands, whatever. This is, basically how I learned to write dialogue.
Gay Hendricks
Should have given us one of those when we were learning therapy back in my therapy training days, that would have saved everybody a lot of trouble.
Arielle Ford
Yeah, it's, it's a trip, I have to say, but now that it's done, now that it's done, I can, I can say lots of good things with a I'm very proud of myself that I did it. I got it done. I'm happy with the book. I love the cover. Love, love, love the cover. The longest chapter in the book is the acknowledgments. Because I had so much help I had to have everybody thanked me. So it's, it's turned out to be one of the biggest best things I've ever done. But the actual process was pure torture.
Gay Hendricks
Yeah. Well, hopefully you learned enough about yourself along the way to make the torture worth the while because God seems to have a vested interest in getting this book out into the world.
Arielle Ford
Yeah, so no, I understand that I was hand selected to channel this thing through. I don't remember in my, you know, my time in between lives. I don't remember saying yes, I'll do this. But clearly, I did. And clearly you guys signed up to be a part of it. So I'm just taking direction at this point. You know, people keep saying, well, what's the sequel? It's like, I don't want to have that conversation. Let me let me you know, raise this one, right, right now, you know, the water broke and the baby came out. You know, let's, let's get a little further down the road before we talk about what I do it again. Because sitting here today, I'd have to say no, I can't imagine.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Ever since I met you. It's always this is the last book I'm ever going to write. I'm never going to do this again. And you create a new adventure in your head that makes it fun for you. So it's not, you know, hellacious? Well, I
Arielle Ford
will admit the title has already shown up. Okay. The movie hasn't started. So if the movie starts, that's a whole different ballgame.
Mike Koenigs
i Yeah, that which, which kind of brings us to one of the things that's on your mind is doing? A Can we talk about the audio book a little bit? for that? Okay, so I'll set it up a little bit, because you love entertainment in the fact that you saw this as a movie, I think speaks volumes. And you and Brian will all of us are huge movie fans. You know, we just love the journey. And the variety. And this thing lends itself very, very well, especially when you read it to not only being a great audio book, especially the way you're visualizing it, but a movie as well. And I was just gone this past weekend and a friend of mine created a play. I saw it for the first time and it's a play about Lloyd Price who was the first entertainer that's he did Latinas, Claudie and personality. Those are two of those hits. But he did many, many, many hits. But he's the first entertainer who created his own record label. And he happens to be African American. He also did a show called turntable that was broadcast live from New York City. He did a ton of firsts, she helped Sam Cooke. Early on, and many, many, many people really create their careers in music. But he also inspired a lot of African Americans who reached financial independence by modeling him. So I bring all that up, only because at this moment, we have a writer's strike going on, we've got an actor strike going on, at this point in history, a lot is changing and entertainment. And you have a tendency to lead the way as a visionary even its as an accidental visionary. So I'm just curious, what shows up when you hear all that stuff for you with regards to both the audio book, the movie, and what's gonna go on what could happen in the entertainment world?
Arielle Ford
Well, well, the movie is on hold. Right now nothing's happening at all. But the audio book, I'm going to start moving forward on because I, there are plenty of voice actors that are not part of sag, or, or the writers group and, and the words exist, I've already written the words. So my vision for the audio book is that it'd be a full cast audio, every character will have his or her own voice. There'll be a soundtrack. And there'll be sound effects, because it's India, and there's no more greater place for sound effects. And so I already have my, you know, Saad VG, you know, at her ashram, she has a huge AV department, they are already capturing the sound effects, and the soundtrack of our tea and all the music they have every day, they're already giving me original music to use for that I've already found the casting director, I've already got the sound guy who's going to has a long history in the Edit thing. And now I'm trying to learn as best I can, all the pieces that we need, like we had to make a character breakdown in order to do the cast, which means I have to give a description as you know, who is Holly like in terms of a Hollywood person? What does she sound like? Here are samples of that actress on interviews? What, for the audition tape, you know, what dialogue do we want to have them record. And then this is the hard part, I have to come up with the exact word count of every single character. And then also, where are the characters conversing, so that we can figure out how to pay them, because they get paid either by the word the hour or the day. Right. And then we have to structure the schedule, because even though it can all be done remotely now, you know, so I have to become a line producer. And project managing is not my thing. I'm a creative, I don't want to be a project manager. But having talked to your friend, I can't remember his name. And some other people, there isn't exactly a line producer out there, that's done this level of forecast audio that I want. That has experience. So I'm I'm gonna have to figure this part out. And then maybe you guys can hold the space. For me, my dream for this audio book is that I win the Grammy for Best Spoken Word.
Mike Koenigs
Hmm. You know, as you're telling that story, you know, there is a talent pool that you could draw from, which is public radio has been producing talkie style shows for a long time. There are editors out there and I would look up I'll think of the name in a second, but there are a couple well known FM NPR shows that are like, if you go back to Garrison Keillor. I mean, that was performance plays as radio. And I, I would bet you can find some people who would love to do something like this who know how to create what used to be old timey radio,
Arielle Ford
right, but it's the project manager hold all the pieces, you know, tell everybody when to show up person, you know, because the guy that I've got, and I'll send you his credentials are phenomenal. You know, and I've already there's there's a new audio book out called, oh, God, I'm not gonna think of the name of it now. But Nicole Kidman is the lead character and, and she is a psychiatrist who has a young girl patient who basically talks to dead people. And I listened to the sample of it and of course it's got music and sound effects. And I thought this is the gold standard of where I want to be the level of drama in the conversation even though you can't see it, you can feel every piece of it and the music works so well. So I have this big vision. And I have a very, very tiny budget, because I'm funding this thing. So this is my, my next big project. I'm super excited about it. You know, there's a part of in my head that says, Don't you think you should go back to work and earn some money? And then there's this other parts like, yeah, someday, but I gotta do this first. Yeah. I love it.
Mike Koenigs
I love it. Okay, I've got one more story related question, which is, pick your favorite chapter or scene? What is it? And why?
Arielle Ford
Oh, that's so easy. I'll tell you exactly. What do you want me to read it to you? Sure. Okay, let me let me figure.
Gay Hendricks
I have another question for you too. Once you've finished that.
Arielle Ford
Let's see. Did I put it in here? You know, I don't remember where it is. But my favorite scene is so so Holly is gone to India. Her heart is broken. She's on this roller coaster of sadness and depression and betrayal and grief. And when she's not there she's in extreme anger and rage and intensity and hay and wants revenge more than anything. And you know now she's with this Brian light character this week who have named Deepak because in India, Deepak just like John or Bob or Steve, it's very common name. And he's her her love wall up. And she basically says to him, you know, I just want to be loved. You know, why can't I just be loved? Did Barry ever really love me? Barry's the toxic narcissist. And so Deepak explains to her the one on one about toxic narcissists. How charming and smart they are and charismatic and blah, blah, blah. And at the end of it, he says to her, Oh, she says, Did he ever love me? And Deepak says to her, asking a man like this to love you, is like asking a man with no arms to hold you. simply impossible. And that's the start. That's the turning point to her growth, where she starts to really see that her lifelong dream of the white picket fence and Prince Charming on a white horse is just a map. And that's not what love really is.
Gay Hendricks
Okay, we're sitting around the casting table. And we've got a bunch of eight by 10 glossies of very prominent actresses. Who are a couple of them that could play your leading character.
Arielle Ford
Yes. And let me just find my breakdown. Because I've I've done all that thinking, but of course, I can't remember thing. anything anymore. Oh, gosh. I'm gonna have to find this document. Because literally all those names I have, and I have forgotten them. Okay, there's a file on here somewhere called Audio? Where is it? I don't know. Oh, sorry. Sorry, guys. Kisara. I can't pull it out. Where is it? Let me search this way under?
Mike Koenigs
Well, while she's looking, I'm gonna continue the entertainment so that you'll just interrupt us. So gay when you listen to this? What's showing up for you? Are you inspired to create something different? or new is this? How is this resonating with you as a creator? And a storyteller?
Gay Hendricks
Well, good question. Because I'm in a very different place. In 2012. I just got this novel writing bug. And it only took me a couple of months to write my first one. And then I was going to rest for a couple of days. But then I'd already thought of how the next one went. And so I literally started the next day working on the next one. And so within the first six months, I'd written you know, two and a half mystery novels. And it was like I was on fire and just couldn't stop. And I went that way through really ate two of which are not published yet. And I was just on fire with him. For some reasons that that has concluded I. I can't imagine ever writing another one of those. And the same thing with my SIR Errol Hyde character. I've written five about him and they are at a completion now. I told the story and I told the story of the Tibetan Buddhist detective. I brought them all in for a landing you know And so they're there. And I frankly, I can't even remember writing them. I mean, it's a pretty extreme thing to do to crank out a dozen novels in 10 years or so. But I really, I was so consumed in it. I just don't remember it the moment the actual act of writing the ball.
Arielle Ford
Hmm. Okay, I found it. I. So my lead character, Holly, my ideal actress would be Kristen Bell. I mean, she kind of looks like her and she talks like her. And, you know, she's she's been out there a long time. I really liked her. And for Barry, the villain, the toxic narcissist. I'll be so disappointed if it isn't, there isn't Bobby Cannavale. You know, he's just perfect for it. So those are two and then Holly's mother. I would really love to have somebody like Laura Dern. So I've been able to put all this into the breakdown so we can get that sort of feel and that sort of thing. But I'm glad I don't work in casting for a living. I mean, it's, it's not easy. And the way my casting directors described it, as you know, he's going to go out why to hundreds of people, and they're going to send in tapes, audition tapes, and then he's going to do the first cut, and then give me a bunch to choose from, does this sound like the right voice? And, you know, and then I also found out that because voice actors are actors, one person could potentially play, you know, five different roles. And for your role, Mike, I'm, it's a Neil Patrick Harris kind of person. Yeah, I mean, because in the book, you're gay, ah,
Mike Koenigs
yeah, I'm good with that. It's, I know that you did such a great job. I wish there will be a time when we can talk about, you know, the basis or where that came from.
Arielle Ford
We have all kinds of disclaimers in the book, that it's a work of fiction, always inspired by actual events, names and circumstances. And my, my entertainment attorney had me spend a ton of money buying errors and omissions insurance. And so so it's a work of fiction, just based a character on my Mikey. So
Mike Koenigs
yeah, we had a lot of fun, and it'll make for it made for great cocktail discussion on when, you know, you had the Warwick book tour, which is 125 year old books are one of the last and oldest independent booksellers in the world, which is such a treat, and he did such an amazing job performing and, and I You're such a great speaker, it was great to watch you. And I have a follow up question that's not exactly related, but any commentary about the book launch party and who was there because you had a taste and a piece of so many of your best of friends and connections that go back many decades. Don't even say how long for some of them. But
Arielle Ford
now it was the Warwick event was really a highlight in my life. It was so much fun. There were 75 people, I knew all of them. I've known some of them for decades. So it's very warm crowd. And it was just, it was just so much fun just to be in such a friendly atmosphere where, you know, basically, all I had to do was stand there and people were laughing. It was just, it was just a big giggle. It was super fun. I haven't planned any other book events, because there's no way I'm gonna get 75 People in Phoenix or Boulder, you know, are saying Oh, and so I'm not gonna go on any kind of tour. But it was fun. I am doing a bunch of podcasts and, and what's really gratifying about the podcast is that unlike a book tour, we used to do a lot of radio shows and your publicists would send a list of questions, and they would just run down the list of questions. They never read your book ever. Yeah. So to be doing podcasts with people who have read the book and liked the book, it's just so much more fun because they have their own particular what they liked, you know, what really moved them, you know, ask interesting questions. So that's been really fun, you know, being able to interact with people that have actually read the book.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, it was so much fun. Well, I'm going to ask another question if that's okay, gay. That will lead into a good setup for you I think, which is channeling characters and Storytelling. And now I've been reading the dune series, which to me is one of the most amazing works of fiction ever. It's so beautiful and complex in the level of the literally, your mind paints a picture of a beautiful movie, and you're experiencing so many different points of view and so many different eyeballs. And the other one that I really love, and it's a great series on Apple TV. I know you're not a science fiction fan, but it's the it's the characters in storytelling that matter. But it's it's Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, again, really, really complex psychology, human psychology. And that, to me is what fiction and novels are all about. It's just the complexities and nuances of humans. And I'm curious, like, when you're channeling the characters and gay, mentioned something along this lines, he said, I don't even remember writing this stuff. So talk about like, the spiritual practice of writing, and how your brain actually goes in and taps into something that is truly universal God consciousness. I'm curious for both of you what that's like, but Arielle, you first?
Arielle Ford
Well, even you know, I had to read the book so many times during the line edit, because, you know, I was so spoiled. I always had big publishers, you know, by the time I got a book, it was just, you know, answer these questions. But I had to read it over and over and over looking for every missing space and comma, and I would read these passages going, I know, there's no way I wrote that, like, where did that come from? Like, did I go into some hyper state into another dimension, where I channeled it and so that, that's been sort of a spooky experience. And now because it's like, really, I, and that's why I know, I had a lot of help from the other side. So the whole experience, for me has been a spiritual growth, evolution. Because I don't, I mean, yeah, my imagination isn't really big enough to have created this.
Gay Hendricks
That's exactly the same way I feel too, because, you know, I know what my imagination is like, but some sort of thing happened, where I go into a different space. And then it just comes and, you know, like, on a couple of my books, I'd been right at the end. And it hadn't revealed itself yet how to put all the pieces together. And so just having to hang out in that void in that creative void. And then all of a sudden, whoosh, somewhere out of nowhere, it all comes together. And I know, you know, part of it, at least is happening in my brain. But I don't even recognize that part of my brain that can do that kind of thing. So I know, we have to have help from something else.
Arielle Ford
You just reminded me of something. So I told you that in the beginning, the title of the book was the love Wallah. But I didn't tell you is when I got it to a UK book doctor, when it came back. They strongly recommended I changed the title. And I was like hell, but I'm so attached to the title, why? And they said, well, in the UK, calling somebody a Wallah is a racial slur. So the UK publishers won't buy the book with that title. So as I got really, to the very end of the final editing thing, I knew I needed a new title. And I was sitting up in bed one night is like midnight, Brian was sound asleep. It was dark outside. And I started talking to my dead sister. And I was like, Debbie, I have this idea for a title. But I don't know if it's the title. It's the love thief. If that's the title, could you send me a sign? And instantly I saw a falling star? And that's fine. Do you know so? Yes, we were definitely getting help from the other side.
Gay Hendricks
Well, also that is such a great title, too. When I first saw it, I thought, Wow. You know, it's it's so easy to see that in a movie too. I mean, who wouldn't want to watch that? Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
I agree. So we've talked about what next which is, I don't know I gotta get past this. First. We talked about the audio book. We talked about the movie which is on hold, and if there were to be a sequel, what could happen next, like how could this turn into a series or Um, you know, just imagine, yeah.
Arielle Ford
Well, you know, somebody at that booksigning like, remember auric said, you know, you're known as a spiritual person. And yet you're writing about revenge. How do you make all that thing? Oh, that sounds good. I was awesome. My newsletter tomorrow is all about my confession, my dark side because I love true crime. You know, I love murder and mayhem. And I And and I also, okay, you'll get this get enough Michael get this. But my dream job had I lived in the late 60s would have been to be part of Nixon special tricks committee.
Mike Koenigs
Oh, hell yeah.
Arielle Ford
Concept of revenge. And getting back at people really appeals to me. So the sequel would be about, you know, looking like you're really nice, typical soccer mom, who, by day, and by night, she's the queen of revenge, or something in that would work. Because, you know, as my sister taught, you know, we are both the dark and the light. And still to this day, and 2023. Most people don't want to admit to their dark side. Well, not you, Mike, because that's one of the first things you share with us. But it's, you know, for me, I think it's really important that we acknowledge and then and then the other part of it is that, you know, especially when it comes to karma, you know, people think they need to be really careful, because they don't want to include bad karma. I once I was once in one of my revenge modes, and I was saying to, to, who was it Stewart Stewart, who's our friend Stuart from TLC Stewart and Joni Emery. Thanks, Stewart Emery? Well, I really wanted to hire a hitman to take care of so and so. But I didn't want to include the bad karma. And Stuart said to me, Well, when I was in India, with whatever guru, he was saying, at the time, he said, we were taught that it's the role of the spiritual warrior, to take out the threat to the community. And by taking out a person like that, you would not include bad karma, because you would do you would be doing something good. And ever since Stuart shared that with me, it sort of shifted my whole take up. You know, what, if you are eliminating somebody who's doing harm, then that's a good act, then you are a spiritual warrior. So I don't know if that answered your question. But that's my answer.
Mike Koenigs
Yeah, no, I, as you were talking about that, the setup for that would be a priest, a rabbi, nun and Hitman walk into a bar. And what they do is they become the team and there's some series, I'm trying to think of what it is, but there's a series where they're not necessarily real, but they they are a hitman, and one of them isn't, is a priest. One of them is a nun. And they all are basically hitman, who are doing all sorts of chaotic things. And it's all revenge, that you look at you like, yep, that's fine. You know, you'd like the bad people are so bad. You're just like, Yep, they're just getting what they deserve.
Arielle Ford
That's why I was like that series that now. Queen Latif has taken over for TV, but it was a movie. Oh, god, what's the name of that thing? We're, he's bringing justice to the universe. It was where she is. She's the person you go to when nobody else can help you. Oh, god, my poor memory. Anyway. I like what you're saying. Like, I love that a priest, a guru and none of them walk into a bar. That's my kind of book or shell. Yeah, totally. I love that.
Gay Hendricks
It sounds like that thing. Were preached a nun walk into a bar and the bartender says, What is this some kind of joke?
Mike Koenigs
It is a great setup. Okay. Well,
Gay Hendricks
I was talking about by the way, speaking of setups, I wrote a screenplay once. Never got anywhere with it. Called torment. And it was about this subject. It was about a service that you could buy. So that after your death, it would be like a little insurance policy. But after your death, this company would go out of its way to torment people that had pissed you off during your lifetime. Oh, God. Yes,
Arielle Ford
I would watch that in a heartbeat. The show I was thinking I was called the equalizer, but it was a serious experience. So the equalizer was a hitman. He was taking people out, but you were rooting for him. The people out so deserved it. Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
the Punisher was another one. A Marvel version of that same theme. And yeah, there have been a few of those. So it's like, such a great universal theme. Here's another one is a distant one. But I just watched a movie called sisu shsu. And basically, it is a thin during right around the end of World War Two. And it's basically this guy has got nothing left, who's basically had found some gold. He's just a barely survivor from the war. And Nazis come along and steal it from them and all hell breaks loose. And everyone who's seen it's like, yep, you just can't You can't go wrong with a Nazi revenge movie. And I think that it's it's fantastic. By the way I looked at the preview, I'm like, Yeah, I don't know if I want to watch this, but it's fantastic. shsu Yep. But I think there's, there's so much to go on here because you can you literally can go from a love story to a revenge story. And build on that, you know, there's there's a bajillion different kinds of directions, it's just a matter of, you know, knowing who your audience is, which is maybe my last question I have for you is, Who Have you imagined the reader, the consumer of this book to be who is the perfect buyer, who's the kind of person who's just gonna love this, and at the end, go, God, I'm so sad, it's over with I want more.
Arielle Ford
You know, I really feel like I know my reader. I think they're my friends. You know, these are people who love a good book, they like a good beach read. And they also are interested in in the woowoo part of life and, and some growth and they've and they love to travel. And they like to cook because there are recipes in the book, my heroines Rishikesh going to cooking school, so there's plenty of recipes in there. So it's, you know, it's part I think, you know, a Pray Love me to study John is really the best description of it. You know, if you like those kinds of things, if you enjoy reading, people have told me they they've read it in one or two days. It's a very fast paced, fast moving thing. And one of the best lines I got was from our friend, Natalie Ledwell, who said that this book leaves you so completely satisfied. You'll want a proverbial cigarette.
Gay Hendricks
That's really good. I love that. That's great. So that's fantastic. Well, we really wish you well with it. It's a very exciting book and very exciting process. And, you know, friend labor, which says, most people if they get the urge to write should just lie down and eat something sweet until the feeling passes. And
Arielle Ford
I agree with
Gay Hendricks
Well, I'm glad you didn't do that, though. I'm glad you persevered. Because you came out the other side, happy and healthy and whole and with a great new story to share with the world.
Arielle Ford
Thank you. And I'm so grateful to both of you. Because really, I don't know that you'll ever get how much of YouTube are infused in that story.
Gay Hendricks
Happy to donate a part of myself to it. That's great. I was proud. Yeah,
Mike Koenigs
it's the most effortless give ever. That's, that's that's good. And when I when you told me that I was in there, but you wouldn't tell me what, who I was, you know, I had to sit and stew for a little while ago. I don't know, what did I do now. But I had a moment of feeling like I was 12 and got caught doing something terrible. My mom used to say Michael Arnold Canucks. And I knew I was in big trouble. But
Mike Koenigs
so obviously, people can go to the love thief.com can't believe you got that domain because it's like, God, it's such a good name. They can get the book, they can get a whole bunch of cool bonuses that you give away. And of course, we're going to ask that they leave a fabulous five star comment and review because that right now is one of the things you need to get are more reviews for this book. But what else would you like to share about you know, the reason why they should go grab this right now the fact I'm telling you to do it?
Arielle Ford
You know, I It's kind of like it's like, it's like a healthy meal that tastes good, right? There's a lot of good juicy life nuggets in there. But you may not want to sit down and read a how to book but then it's all delivered through the backdoor through this story about this interesting woman whose life is falling apart. Who ends up you know, having all her dreams come true, just not in the way she planned to have them happen.
Gay Hendricks
Okay, great work. Thanks a lot. for sharing it with us, sorry.
Arielle Ford
Thank you so much.
Mike Koenigs
Right on. All right, well, I'll wrap this thing up with you know exactly what to do. It rhymes with go by love thief now.com. Now the love thief.com Grab the book,
Mike Koenigs
maybe get two copies, send one to your friends. You know, it's super easy to give gifts when you've got Amazon Prime, and make sure you head over and leave that review as well. It is it really is a very fun funny read. And I can't say what chapter I'm in there, but you won't have to guess very long. And then, and then it's none of its true. None of its true. Okay, just for the record. And it is it's fun and you're supporting one of my favorite people in the universe is one of the greatest manifester is and she wouldn't be such a great manifester. She wouldn't have gotten that ticket for free in the first place. But I you know, I had forgotten I had bought that for you until you told the story. I'm like yeah, and I don't remember what was going on why couldn't go at that point and visit with you. But I I'm looking forward to heading back and I hope we can go to India again sometime together soon. So with that, this is the big leap. It's been an absolute pleasure spending time with you. I hope you share this episode with someone you love and care about, and of course, gay and I love your comments, feedback and five star reviews as well because that helps more people find the show. So thank you, Arielle. Thank you again. We'll see in the next episode. Thanks so much.
