Is It a Mistake or a Pattern? How Great Leaders Know the Difference

WEBVTT
00:00:46.306 --> 00:00:49.773
How many times have you seen something and thought, uh oh.
00:00:51.073 --> 00:00:52.006
So many.
00:00:54.573 --> 00:00:58.073
The problem is, is it's usually one something.
00:00:58.073 --> 00:01:01.306
And that's not something you really want to panic about, is it?
00:01:01.306 --> 00:01:02.906
Yeah, I freak out the first moment.
00:01:02.906 --> 00:01:03.340
Yeah.
00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:04.605
No, that's that's what we.
00:01:04.605 --> 00:01:07.472
So speaking of freaking out, we're going to talk about that in a second too.
00:01:07.472 --> 00:01:07.873
Okay.
00:01:07.873 --> 00:01:08.740
Stay tuned.
00:01:11.373 --> 00:01:13.105
She's the CEO.
00:01:13.105 --> 00:01:15.305
He's the marketing and operations guy.
00:01:15.305 --> 00:01:18.706
If it's broken you need the business fix.
00:01:20.539 --> 00:01:25.605
Speaking of panic, one of the things that I absolutely love is we this is episode what sixty four?
00:01:25.605 --> 00:01:26.340
Yeah.
00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:34.272
And every single time that we sit here and we're starting to do the hook because you walk into this completely blind.
00:01:34.272 --> 00:01:40.673
Do you look at the camera and in many cases, you have the look of I'm being held hostage.
00:01:40.673 --> 00:01:42.472
I don't know what's happening next.
00:01:42.472 --> 00:01:43.073
Send help.
00:01:43.073 --> 00:01:43.873
I don't like it.
00:01:43.873 --> 00:01:44.472
Yeah.
00:01:45.806 --> 00:01:48.939
Because in our notes it always says, Josh will do the hook.
00:01:48.939 --> 00:01:50.240
It doesn't really say anything.
00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:53.705
No, no, no. I love the element of surprise.
00:01:53.705 --> 00:01:57.640
I love the fact that once again, like and most of the.
00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:06.105
It's funny because when we talk about the hook, I. In a lot of cases, before we walk into the studio, I've got a general idea, but I don't have it worked out.
00:02:06.105 --> 00:02:09.939
I'm in a lot of cases coming up with those on the fly.
00:02:09.939 --> 00:02:12.973
Um, just because I know what questions we want to ask.
00:02:12.973 --> 00:02:15.539
I know what questions we want to answer for people and stuff like that.
00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:17.806
But really, it's it.
00:02:17.806 --> 00:02:22.806
I truly love coming in and catching you completely off guard.
00:02:22.806 --> 00:02:29.006
I don't like it, but I deal with it because I'm resilient.
00:02:29.006 --> 00:02:32.039
You're like, I gotta, I gotta sit through forty five seconds of this.
00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:32.640
I'll be fine.
00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:33.906
And then we get to talk about stuff.
00:02:33.906 --> 00:02:37.740
I actually want to talk about what I like doing right.
00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:38.240
It's all good.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:39.372
We'll get to that.
00:02:39.372 --> 00:02:41.840
This is this is the tough part.
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:47.705
And unfortunately, like one of the things that we're going to talk about that actually is a pattern.
00:02:47.705 --> 00:02:54.006
It is it's not an anomaly that it feels like an anomaly every freaking time, but it's not.
00:02:54.006 --> 00:02:56.140
It's part of the pattern and process.
00:02:56.140 --> 00:03:04.340
While these days I'm waiting for you to say, Josh, can you bring in your motorcycle helmet so I can wear it during the during the intro, please?
00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:06.040
Yes.
00:03:06.040 --> 00:03:11.106
Um, this week we are talking, like I've said this a couple of hundred times.
00:03:11.106 --> 00:03:14.306
I think in the sixty four episodes once is not a pattern.
00:03:14.306 --> 00:03:29.106
Uh, we've realized this needs a deeper dive because when like some people are like, I know you see it on the HR side of things where they're like, well, it's only happened a couple of times and you're like, yeah, a couple of hundred.
00:03:29.106 --> 00:03:30.006
That's a pattern.
00:03:30.006 --> 00:03:30.606
Yeah.
00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:37.772
So when does it go from the anomaly to the pattern?
00:03:37.772 --> 00:03:41.006
Like as business business owners especially.
00:03:41.006 --> 00:03:46.906
But many managers kind of lack that calibration because it's a threat.
00:03:46.906 --> 00:03:52.439
It could be a and I mean, if you have a culture of fear, it's instantly a threat, no matter what it is.
00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:53.006
Yeah, absolutely.
00:03:53.006 --> 00:03:58.306
That one time can just I mean, is someone going to lose their ever loving mind over this?
00:03:58.306 --> 00:04:03.140
And other times those chronic mistakes are excused.
00:04:03.140 --> 00:04:07.272
It's just it's a simple mistake and it's not a big deal.
00:04:07.272 --> 00:04:17.639
Uh, we've both seen the like, and I know from the HR side, you've seen some pretty big deals that have been like, oh, it's just a little mistake.
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:18.772
No it's not.
00:04:20.406 --> 00:04:21.272
It is.
00:04:21.272 --> 00:04:24.805
It is the mistake.
00:04:24.805 --> 00:04:27.173
It's not a little mistake.
00:04:27.173 --> 00:04:30.206
It is the mistake.
00:04:30.206 --> 00:04:44.906
This is where things come undone from the HR, from the behavioral standpoint, like, why are humans Hard wired to see that single threat as or that single error as a massive threat.
00:04:44.906 --> 00:04:45.406
Yeah.
00:04:45.406 --> 00:04:48.272
And like, why do people panic?
00:04:48.272 --> 00:04:50.005
Because we're human.
00:04:50.005 --> 00:04:51.005
I mean, it's done.
00:04:51.005 --> 00:04:51.973
We're done recording.
00:04:51.973 --> 00:04:52.772
We can go home now.
00:04:52.772 --> 00:04:56.439
It's because we're human that that means the hook was a large majority of the show.
00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:57.839
And I don't think you don't want that to happen.
00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:58.272
All right.
00:04:58.272 --> 00:05:00.272
Well, you don't want that to happen.
00:05:00.272 --> 00:05:03.573
I will say, okay, because we're human and humans are not naturally objective.
00:05:03.573 --> 00:05:04.805
We're naturally protective.
00:05:04.805 --> 00:05:05.340
Yes.
00:05:05.340 --> 00:05:11.439
So when something goes wrong, our brain immediately starts trying to answer the question, what does this mean?
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:12.406
What's going on?
00:05:12.406 --> 00:05:15.439
And usually we answer that question way too quickly.
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:20.006
But I think we can use the three C's because we love C's of calibration.
00:05:20.006 --> 00:05:23.040
So and those are curiosity, context and conclusion.
00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:26.872
Not catastrophic, not catastrophic, not at all.
00:05:26.872 --> 00:05:29.773
Calibration, curiosity, context and conclusion.
00:05:29.773 --> 00:05:36.240
So curiosity, healthiest leaders stay curious longer instead of why did they do that?
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.506
You're going to ask what happened?
00:05:38.506 --> 00:05:40.073
Yes, it's a totally different sea.
00:05:40.073 --> 00:05:43.040
If you say, why did they do that as opposed to, well, what happened?
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:44.473
Help me understand.
00:05:44.473 --> 00:05:46.105
Those are two very different questions.
00:05:46.105 --> 00:05:47.006
One's a statement.
00:05:47.006 --> 00:05:47.673
Almost.
00:05:47.673 --> 00:05:48.105
Yes.
00:05:48.105 --> 00:05:51.439
Well, one assumes positive intent and one seeks understanding.
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:54.906
So I mean, like it's just like we've got to have understanding around it.
00:05:54.906 --> 00:06:02.939
Let's assume the positive intent and seek understanding as opposed to like it's an interrogation of why, where were you on the night exactly?
00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:03.872
No, this is not.
00:06:03.872 --> 00:06:05.006
So that's curiosity.
00:06:05.006 --> 00:06:06.305
And then context.
00:06:06.305 --> 00:06:09.605
Our brains are wired for something that we call negativity bias.
00:06:09.605 --> 00:06:13.506
So we remember criticisms, mistakes and failures much more vividly than success.
00:06:13.506 --> 00:06:14.240
And it's natural.
00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.105
It's wired to keep us alive.
00:06:16.105 --> 00:06:24.273
You know, when someone ate the plant with the red berries and they died, like, that's one of the reasons why we're set to remember those things.
00:06:24.273 --> 00:06:24.605
All right?
00:06:24.605 --> 00:06:26.740
But we're not dealing with those types of situations anymore.
00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:31.105
Most of the time now it's Bob sent an email that was a little critical and we think we're dying.
00:06:31.105 --> 00:06:31.540
Yeah.
00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:34.040
And we never want to answer an email from Bob ever again.
00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:35.605
No, Bob is not the red berries.
00:06:35.605 --> 00:06:36.139
It's okay.
00:06:36.139 --> 00:06:37.540
We can deal with it.
00:06:37.540 --> 00:06:41.040
So I just know if you ever bring red berries for me, you do not eat them.
00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:41.939
There's a problem.
00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:42.206
Yeah.
00:06:42.206 --> 00:06:46.605
So, I mean, one mistake feels enormous, even when it's surrounded by ninety nine examples of success.
00:06:46.605 --> 00:06:51.006
Because again, we are hard wired for negativity bias because our brains are hardwired to see the mistakes.
00:06:51.006 --> 00:06:52.105
So we stay alive.
00:06:52.105 --> 00:06:52.473
Yeah.
00:06:52.473 --> 00:06:55.605
So we have to think about that in context and then conclusion.
00:06:55.605 --> 00:06:59.206
And this is where I think sometimes we can get in trouble, right?
00:06:59.206 --> 00:07:04.073
Because we skip curiosity, we skip context and we go straight to a conclusion.
00:07:04.073 --> 00:07:04.706
Of course.
00:07:04.706 --> 00:07:05.073
Yeah.
00:07:05.073 --> 00:07:09.740
And then suddenly that typo that somebody made is complete incompetence that missed deadline.
00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.473
That person is no longer committed to the organization.
00:07:13.473 --> 00:07:16.273
A bad day becomes a bad employee.
00:07:16.273 --> 00:07:21.406
So the fastest way to make a bad leadership decision is to skip curiosity and rush to that conclusion.
00:07:21.406 --> 00:07:27.040
So you've got to think curiosity first, context second, and conclusion last.
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:32.740
So the three C's have an order in this process and you need to follow them one hundred percent.
00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:34.605
Makes sense because it's it's so funny.
00:07:34.605 --> 00:07:39.073
They they say in many cases, the fastest way is a straight line.
00:07:39.073 --> 00:07:39.906
Yeah.
00:07:39.906 --> 00:07:42.340
The fastest way is not always the best way.
00:07:42.340 --> 00:07:43.139
No it's not.
00:07:43.139 --> 00:07:44.973
Take take it from someone who has a motorcycle.
00:07:44.973 --> 00:07:47.305
The fastest way is not always the best way.
00:07:47.305 --> 00:07:51.540
Um, you in many cases want to take the scenic route because you get better information.
00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:52.305
Yeah.
00:07:52.305 --> 00:07:55.973
Uh, what happens when that leader overreacts?
00:07:55.973 --> 00:08:01.605
Not that we've ever seen anyone ever overreact to anything before.
00:08:01.605 --> 00:08:02.372
Never.
00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:07.040
Why why why?
00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.173
Like when they treat an anomaly like a systemic failure?
00:08:11.173 --> 00:08:11.939
Mhm.
00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:14.773
What does that do to the psychological safety of a team?
00:08:14.773 --> 00:08:15.706
Like, do they work better?
00:08:15.706 --> 00:08:20.740
Do they just like, okay, I'm going to hide behind the machine until this all blows over?
00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:21.573
Yeah.
00:08:21.573 --> 00:08:25.573
So if people are afraid of the reaction, they're always going to hide reality.
00:08:25.573 --> 00:08:25.906
Yeah.
00:08:25.906 --> 00:08:28.605
So fear improves concealment, not performance.
00:08:28.605 --> 00:08:29.105
Ooh.
00:08:29.105 --> 00:08:30.706
You want a needle point that.
00:08:30.706 --> 00:08:31.173
Yes.
00:08:31.173 --> 00:08:33.105
Fear improves concealment, not performance.
00:08:33.105 --> 00:08:34.139
Are we going to come out with.
00:08:34.139 --> 00:08:35.139
I think we should.
00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:35.605
Chrissy.
00:08:35.605 --> 00:08:36.505
Pillow collection.
00:08:36.505 --> 00:08:38.139
That's the needlepoint pillows.
00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:38.773
We should.
00:08:38.773 --> 00:08:39.605
I love this.
00:08:39.605 --> 00:08:43.840
So when there's an overreaction, this is where psychological safety starts disappearing.
00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:45.173
And it's not because of the mistake.
00:08:45.173 --> 00:08:50.773
It's really because of the reaction that the manager or the leader had to the mistake.
00:08:50.773 --> 00:08:55.773
And it's where you also have ignored curiosity and context and you've jumped straight to that conclusion.
00:08:55.773 --> 00:08:56.605
Again, you did it wrong.
00:08:56.605 --> 00:08:57.939
You didn't follow the steps.
00:08:57.939 --> 00:09:02.139
So let's go back and follow the right order of curiosity, context and conclusion.
00:09:02.139 --> 00:09:03.372
So curiosity.
00:09:03.372 --> 00:09:07.505
When leaders react emotionally, employees are going to learn that that mistake is dangerous.
00:09:07.505 --> 00:09:08.405
I'm going to die.
00:09:08.405 --> 00:09:12.605
They're not going to learn that the mistake is fixable, right?
00:09:12.605 --> 00:09:18.740
So to keep people from thinking mistake, I'm going to die, we take a tone of curiosity when things are amiss.
00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:21.306
We ask questions with the right tone.
00:09:21.306 --> 00:09:23.105
Don't start with Bob, you idiot.
00:09:23.105 --> 00:09:23.605
Right?
00:09:23.605 --> 00:09:24.440
Why not?
00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:29.906
Because then Bob's not going to want to talk to you or tell you when he's messed something up.
00:09:29.906 --> 00:09:30.539
So it's.
00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:36.105
how can you help me understand and say it in a tone that isn't like, well, can you help me understand?
00:09:36.105 --> 00:09:38.572
Don't you've got to say it.
00:09:38.572 --> 00:09:40.240
Can you help me understand?
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:41.206
Tone means a lot here.
00:09:41.206 --> 00:09:44.139
Tone is extremely important.
00:09:44.139 --> 00:09:46.539
You actually have to be curious.
00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:48.139
You can't feign curiosity.
00:09:48.139 --> 00:09:48.906
No you can't.
00:09:48.906 --> 00:09:50.972
You need to be genuinely curious.
00:09:50.972 --> 00:09:52.373
And then when someone makes a mistake.
00:09:52.373 --> 00:10:00.406
The other thing that I think a lot of times managers, especially if they're not trained effectively do, is they step on people's dignity.
00:10:00.406 --> 00:10:04.173
And I mean, the why not will will lead us to context.
00:10:04.173 --> 00:10:06.639
This is why we're not going to step on people's dignity.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:07.806
Okay.
00:10:07.806 --> 00:10:15.173
If people do not feel that they can make a mistake or effectively solve their own problems, people are going to start managing perception instead of performance.
00:10:15.173 --> 00:10:18.940
And this is what I call performance theater in the workplace.
00:10:18.940 --> 00:10:21.539
So then people spend all of their energy looking busy.
00:10:21.539 --> 00:10:22.972
They're protecting themselves.
00:10:22.972 --> 00:10:26.840
They're avoiding visibility instead of solving problems.
00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.572
So if they come in in a curtain opens.
00:10:29.572 --> 00:10:31.039
It's not what you want.
00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.240
So, I mean, here's what I'll say.
00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:38.273
And some of the things that we do at clarity, this is not an uncommon problem that comes to us in the fractional HR space.
00:10:38.273 --> 00:10:39.240
We get this a lot.
00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:39.673
Yes.
00:10:39.673 --> 00:10:40.005
Right.
00:10:40.005 --> 00:10:43.639
An employee gets publicly embarrassed over a small mistake.
00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:50.005
And suddenly because that employee got embarrassed, the whole team starts double checking everything.
00:10:50.005 --> 00:10:51.273
They avoid decisions.
00:10:51.273 --> 00:10:55.005
They no longer want to have those conversations where we could make the business better.
00:10:55.005 --> 00:10:56.206
We could make the product better.
00:10:56.206 --> 00:11:04.273
We could serve the customer better, because they don't want to deal with the potential of being embarrassed, and they start escalating the tiniest issues.
00:11:04.273 --> 00:12:11.060
It's like we used to never have to have an escalation for a change order, and now all of a sudden we've got like fifteen escalation change orders that, like I all of a sudden as the manager have to do.
00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:11.725
Well, why is that?
00:12:11.725 --> 00:12:17.493
Well, because you embarrassed Bob in a meeting because he asked a question and you told him that it was dumb.
00:12:17.493 --> 00:12:22.826
So. And, and the reason that they all they do this is because they're afraid of being next.
00:12:22.826 --> 00:12:24.293
So yes, when.
00:12:24.293 --> 00:12:27.960
And then the leader doesn't understand why morale's down or why the performance issues are stalled.
00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:31.426
They're like, I don't I don't understand what's wrong with my team.
00:12:31.426 --> 00:12:34.293
The the short answer is usually you.
00:12:34.293 --> 00:12:36.893
But I don't say that.
00:12:36.893 --> 00:12:38.725
Well, we say, why don't we have some curiosity about it?
00:12:38.725 --> 00:12:42.060
Can you help me understand why you think the team might be this way?
00:12:42.060 --> 00:12:44.060
Well, let's have some context in the last meeting.
00:12:44.060 --> 00:12:45.293
What happened?
00:12:45.293 --> 00:12:46.293
Can you help me?
00:12:46.293 --> 00:12:47.259
Can you explain it to me?
00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:47.793
So, yeah.
00:12:47.793 --> 00:12:50.192
So you've got curiosity in context.
00:12:50.192 --> 00:12:57.893
Like how, how do you objectively document like the behavior though, when there's no hard, like it's not a sales KPI?
00:12:57.893 --> 00:13:00.426
How, how do we turn like the vibes of this?
00:13:00.426 --> 00:13:02.893
You mentioned like the right.
00:13:02.893 --> 00:13:05.793
How do you turn that into something that's quantifiable?
00:13:05.793 --> 00:13:10.026
So it's not just like, hey, the office feels good today.
00:13:10.026 --> 00:13:10.326
Yeah.
00:13:10.326 --> 00:13:13.426
Or everyone's scared.
00:13:13.426 --> 00:13:17.225
So the polar opposite of people living in fear to make a mistake and it's vibes.
00:13:17.225 --> 00:13:18.093
Great.
00:13:18.093 --> 00:13:23.360
So leaders are constantly coming to HR and they're saying, you know, I just have a feeling.
00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:24.093
I have a feeling.
00:13:24.093 --> 00:13:25.860
I know, right?
00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:26.860
I have a feeling.
00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:27.826
And it's like, okay.
00:13:27.826 --> 00:13:29.759
But feelings aren't documentation.
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:34.560
No. And it's but, you know, feelings are not documentation, but it's something we can work with.
00:13:34.560 --> 00:13:38.259
So we're going to walk through the framework of curiosity, context and conclusion.
00:13:38.259 --> 00:13:42.926
So curiosity, we're going to start by getting curious about what you're actually seeing.
00:13:42.926 --> 00:13:45.626
So and it's not well this person has a bad attitude.
00:13:45.626 --> 00:13:46.926
It's like no, what type why?
00:13:46.926 --> 00:13:51.460
When, how, where their negative energy, you know, this person just has a lot of negative energy.
00:13:51.460 --> 00:14:00.759
The questions I'm going to ask then are going to be, well, when, why where, who with who with is a very key question because it's like, oh, they just have negative energy with you.
00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:01.960
HMM.
00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:03.093
Let's talk about that.
00:14:03.093 --> 00:14:04.826
There's a lot of you're the problems here.
00:14:04.826 --> 00:14:11.026
There are, there are especially if we really get curious, we're going to find out that a lot of times we're just doing it wrong.
00:14:11.026 --> 00:14:12.293
And that's okay.
00:14:12.293 --> 00:14:16.626
And the other one with curiosity is when people just come in and they're like, this person's a poor culture fit.
00:14:16.626 --> 00:14:18.960
I want to know, why is it a skill gap?
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.093
Is it a will gap?
00:14:20.093 --> 00:14:21.225
Is it a you problem?
00:14:21.225 --> 00:14:22.526
I mean, those are labels.
00:14:22.526 --> 00:14:27.026
So you have to ask yourself what you're seeing then to the context and then document it.
00:14:27.026 --> 00:14:28.626
So what specifically happened?
00:14:28.626 --> 00:14:30.560
Again, we're getting very specific.
00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:36.893
Can you point to missed deadlines, repeated interruptions, defensive responses, failure to follow through.
00:14:36.893 --> 00:14:41.426
If we've got some of those things, then we have something real in context.
00:14:41.426 --> 00:14:48.926
So then we can go to a conclusion because once the behavior becomes observable, it becomes discussable.
00:14:48.926 --> 00:14:51.660
And once it becomes discussable, it becomes coachable.
00:14:51.660 --> 00:14:54.759
And you can't coach a vibe, but you can coach behavior.
00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:55.626
Yes.
00:14:55.626 --> 00:14:57.126
Again, I think that should be a needle point.
00:14:57.126 --> 00:14:58.160
You can't coach a vibe.
00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:00.692
You can coach a behavior I like.
00:15:00.692 --> 00:15:06.560
Please, if you think we should do this as a like as a side hustle, I think we might need to.
00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:15.460
And the real quick, I want to say like I joke about like how most of the time the problem is you, not you specifically, but it is the figurative you.
00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:16.293
Yeah.
00:15:16.293 --> 00:15:20.526
I love it when that is because that's easier to look at.
00:15:20.526 --> 00:15:22.060
That's easier to fix.
00:15:22.060 --> 00:15:25.493
It absolutely is when it's than when it's half your team.
00:15:25.493 --> 00:15:25.926
Yes.
00:15:25.926 --> 00:15:28.660
It's easier to be like, oh hey, I'm the idiot here.
00:15:28.660 --> 00:15:29.793
I need to do better.
00:15:29.793 --> 00:15:31.060
Great, great.
00:15:31.060 --> 00:15:32.759
I can improve me.
00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.326
It's one of the easiest things to improve upon.
00:15:35.326 --> 00:15:39.326
Once we know it's an issue and that's a conclusion that we can have, and then we know.
00:15:39.326 --> 00:15:40.060
Do we need to coach it?
00:15:40.060 --> 00:15:40.826
Do we need to correct it?
00:15:40.826 --> 00:15:42.160
Do we need to cut it?
00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:43.060
We've talked about that.
00:15:43.060 --> 00:15:43.759
We have.
00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:44.526
I love that.
00:15:44.526 --> 00:15:44.793
Yeah.
00:15:44.793 --> 00:15:47.793
So Josh, you love numbers and a good dashboard.
00:15:47.793 --> 00:15:49.293
No I know.
00:15:49.293 --> 00:15:50.126
I'm so excited.
00:15:50.126 --> 00:15:51.526
We talked about the three C's.
00:15:51.526 --> 00:15:54.326
Now I want to know how we operationalize this.
00:15:54.326 --> 00:15:57.660
So we stop chasing mistakes and ignoring those bigger issues.
00:15:57.660 --> 00:15:58.926
So there's a couple of things.
00:15:58.926 --> 00:16:00.759
There's there's a three step program.
00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:02.460
You would think it would be a twelve step program.
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.393
It's a three step, three step, three steps.
00:16:05.393 --> 00:16:07.093
I like the fast track stuff.
00:16:07.093 --> 00:16:08.725
You know, I like it to.
00:16:10.725 --> 00:16:12.960
Define the anomaly.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.826
So like first off you have to see what is an anomaly?
00:16:19.593 --> 00:16:21.560
I've got a great story about this.
00:16:21.560 --> 00:16:33.060
About a week ago, I was in the shower, was thinking about a bunch of stuff with the business, get out of the shower, realizing I still had shampoo in my hair.
00:16:34.560 --> 00:16:36.293
You did not follow your process.
00:16:36.293 --> 00:16:40.460
I did not follow my did not follow my shower process.
00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:43.926
No, because I'm more like Kramer in the shower where it's just there.
00:16:45.225 --> 00:16:48.192
But to me, that was an anomaly.
00:16:48.192 --> 00:16:51.560
Yeah, that doesn't mean I had a stroke.
00:16:51.560 --> 00:16:54.493
That doesn't mean that I'm brain dead.
00:16:54.493 --> 00:16:54.893
It was.
00:16:54.893 --> 00:16:55.593
It was a blip.
00:16:55.593 --> 00:16:56.493
You were deep in thought.
00:16:56.493 --> 00:16:56.793
Yes.
00:16:56.793 --> 00:16:57.560
Correct.
00:16:57.560 --> 00:17:01.660
It was a an actual mistake.
00:17:01.660 --> 00:17:04.660
Um, I believe I've made other mistakes in life.
00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:05.692
A number of them.
00:17:05.692 --> 00:17:08.826
Um, Kim has made quite a few mistakes.
00:17:08.826 --> 00:17:09.792
We're not going.
00:17:09.792 --> 00:17:10.960
Correct.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:19.559
So that being said, I mean, if an employee followed an SOP perfectly for ninety days and suddenly misses a step.
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.393
Okay, don't panic.
00:17:21.393 --> 00:17:23.192
Don't write a new policy.
00:17:23.192 --> 00:17:28.625
Like let the person that made the mistake know about it in a way like, hey, did you know this happened?
00:17:28.625 --> 00:17:30.225
It happens occasionally, right?
00:17:30.225 --> 00:17:34.593
Typically they're going to be like, oh yeah, we found that.
00:17:34.593 --> 00:17:35.925
Great.
00:17:35.925 --> 00:17:37.259
Go along with your day.
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:38.725
Go along with with your life.
00:17:38.725 --> 00:17:49.425
The problem is, is what I see in so many cases is someone leaves shampoo in their hair and suddenly they're like, we can't take showers anymore.
00:17:49.425 --> 00:17:51.026
Um, if that can happen, we're not.
00:17:51.026 --> 00:17:52.960
There's a checklist, right?
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.326
Right.
00:17:53.326 --> 00:17:55.125
We're not taking showers anymore.
00:17:55.125 --> 00:18:00.259
And the problem is, is you've now fixed the like, I will probably if I stopped taking showers.
00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:01.160
I mean, we're in the studio.
00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:01.593
It's warm.
00:18:01.593 --> 00:18:02.826
There'd be another problem, right?
00:18:02.826 --> 00:18:06.160
There's another problem we're gonna have to discuss, right?
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.625
Studio is kind of small.
00:18:07.625 --> 00:18:10.393
It's like Chrissy's like we're done doing the podcast.
00:18:10.393 --> 00:18:16.625
It's one of those things where to me, it like if you say, look, we need to prevent the shampoo problem.
00:18:16.625 --> 00:18:17.792
So we're done taking showers.
00:18:17.792 --> 00:18:19.192
We're never taking showers again.
00:18:19.192 --> 00:18:26.625
Well, now you've caused ten other problems by fixing a mistake, not by fixing a problem.
00:18:26.625 --> 00:18:35.660
So acknowledge it, discuss it with the involved parties, clean up the immediate mess, note it in your head, and go back to doing your damn job.
00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:37.192
Yeah.
00:18:37.192 --> 00:18:38.225
That's okay.
00:18:38.225 --> 00:18:39.826
Correct.
00:18:39.826 --> 00:18:40.893
The second piece to that.
00:18:40.893 --> 00:18:42.992
So define repetition.
00:18:42.992 --> 00:18:46.192
I always feel like twice as twice as a warning.
00:18:46.192 --> 00:18:49.860
The second time the same error occurs within a thirty or sixty day window.
00:18:49.860 --> 00:18:51.726
You have a signal.
00:18:51.726 --> 00:18:53.226
This is not the time to fire.
00:18:53.226 --> 00:18:55.460
This is not the time to yell.
00:18:55.460 --> 00:18:58.160
This is time for a quick pause and an audit.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.625
Hey, let's let's go back and look at this.
00:19:00.625 --> 00:19:04.860
And what I like to call this is the operational awareness horizon.
00:19:04.860 --> 00:19:07.226
This is coming to a fork in the road.
00:19:07.226 --> 00:19:08.160
Okay.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.226
You are aware like you're on, let's say you're on a long, straight road.
00:19:12.226 --> 00:19:18.425
You see that the road splits ahead about a half a mile to three quarters of a mile.
00:19:18.425 --> 00:19:21.726
This is you being aware of the fork in the road.
00:19:21.726 --> 00:19:23.360
You are not applying the brakes yet?
00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:26.960
No, you're not turning like you're not yanking on the steering wheel.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.259
No, because if you do that, you end up in the ditch.
00:19:29.259 --> 00:19:29.893
Yeah.
00:19:29.893 --> 00:19:33.726
So this is the time to look further down the road to anticipate.
00:19:33.726 --> 00:19:36.826
Hey, I should be ready when that fork in the road.
00:19:36.826 --> 00:19:38.992
When I finally get to the fork in the road.
00:19:38.992 --> 00:19:41.093
Once again, it's not the time to make a change.
00:19:41.093 --> 00:19:43.960
It is time to be ready to change.
00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.259
It's time to have ideas on what may need change.
00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:49.093
It's time to start looking at that.
00:19:49.093 --> 00:19:51.226
So like I said, you don't hit the brakes.
00:19:51.226 --> 00:19:52.625
You don't turn the steering wheel.
00:19:52.625 --> 00:19:54.425
Register that the fork is there.
00:19:54.425 --> 00:20:01.393
You realize that you may have to change course or you may stay the course, but you don't act until data actually demands it.
00:20:01.393 --> 00:20:07.692
This is what's going to keep the machine running normally while putting your operational sensors on high alert.
00:20:07.692 --> 00:20:15.460
This is going to prevent the panic lever pulling of just running through and flipping every switch.
00:20:15.460 --> 00:20:27.826
I kind of go back to the, uh, the, the Chernobyl series when they just start flipping switches and pushing buttons and you're like, yeah, no, that's, that's not, that's not what we train for.
00:20:27.826 --> 00:20:28.460
Right?
00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:37.492
The other thing that I want to look at with that is too, is this is part of that fork is saying that you want to be ready for is it's, it's system versus person diagnostic.
00:20:37.492 --> 00:20:40.492
Ask the employee once again, help me understand what happened here.
00:20:40.492 --> 00:20:47.125
The process says X, but the result says Y. This is where once again you need to go back to coach, correct or cut.
00:20:47.125 --> 00:20:50.360
You also have to look at is this a leadership problem?
00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:57.293
This is where you can be proactive, vague and shifting, goalpost, context hoarding, all these types of things.
00:20:57.293 --> 00:21:04.360
We talked about something where I mean, really with one of my employees, I gave a direction and said, do do the thing.
00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:09.125
I was getting frustrated as all get out about like the results we were getting.
00:21:09.125 --> 00:21:15.726
And then I realized I'm like, oh, this is this is because you're giving her about a quarter of the information that she needs.
00:21:15.726 --> 00:21:18.826
You're not telling her exactly what needs to happen.
00:21:18.826 --> 00:21:19.293
Yeah.
00:21:19.293 --> 00:21:21.492
It you were not clear.
00:21:21.492 --> 00:21:22.559
No, I wasn't clear.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:24.460
You messed up the first see of leadership.
00:21:24.460 --> 00:21:25.093
Correct.
00:21:25.093 --> 00:21:31.925
And the I mean, the goalposts were I mean, the goalposts weren't even assembled yet, but she couldn't see them because you didn't tell her what they were.
00:21:31.925 --> 00:21:32.360
Correct.
00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.660
Yeah.
00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.660
We had a basketball backboard hanging from half a soccer goal.
00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:36.160
Yeah.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.160
Uh, and you wanted her to just do the thing, right?
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.492
And I'm telling her to kick a field goal.
00:21:41.492 --> 00:21:50.226
Uh. The once again, expecting the team to execute on an SOP without understanding.
00:21:50.226 --> 00:21:51.226
This is the big thing to me.
00:21:51.226 --> 00:21:52.660
Without understanding the why.
00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.460
Yeah.
00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:55.625
Uh, the way my brain works.
00:21:55.625 --> 00:22:05.692
Like if you give me a rule for an organization and show me why that rule exists, I will follow that rule like it's a commandment.
00:22:05.692 --> 00:22:06.726
Yes.
00:22:06.726 --> 00:22:07.526
I'm similar.
00:22:07.526 --> 00:22:07.960
Yeah.
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:12.360
If you give me a rule that I think is complete BS.
00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:13.226
Oh, I ignore it.
00:22:13.226 --> 00:22:14.492
I will ignore that.
00:22:14.492 --> 00:22:15.726
Like a speed limit sign.
00:22:15.726 --> 00:22:16.326
Haha.
00:22:18.526 --> 00:22:19.293
Exactly right.
00:22:19.293 --> 00:22:20.226
One hundred percent.
00:22:20.226 --> 00:22:22.026
It is a suggestion that I am not taking.
00:22:22.026 --> 00:22:22.860
Correct?
00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:24.192
Yeah, no, this is BS.
00:22:24.192 --> 00:22:25.526
Why am I like this?
00:22:25.526 --> 00:22:26.793
No no thanks.
00:22:26.793 --> 00:22:31.526
I'll get it done better if you don't share the business context people.
00:22:31.526 --> 00:22:39.960
And this is the problem is people can't pivot when a minor variable shifts and they they can't take ownership of any issues when they start to happen.
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:52.160
The other thing that I see is a big mistake that we see when we look at system versus person, diagnostic is forced over capacity, operating the team at one hundred and ten percent without building in a monitored buffer.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:59.526
Um, if you sit there and hold your engine at redline all day long, eventually she can go bang and it's going to be expensive.
00:22:59.526 --> 00:23:02.925
Yes, you're going to be picking up parts of your car with a snow shovel and some kitty litter.
00:23:02.925 --> 00:23:04.660
Mhm.
00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:05.125
Yeah.
00:23:05.125 --> 00:23:07.526
Don't do that to your workers.
00:23:07.526 --> 00:23:13.593
You can run them at one hundred and ten percent for a very short period of time, but then you have to run them at sixty percent for a little while.
00:23:13.593 --> 00:23:15.692
So that way they can cool off.
00:23:15.692 --> 00:23:18.360
Are you running that about one hundred and ten percent too long?
00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:23.460
Then the other thing is, is once again failing the mirror test the model what you mandate.
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:40.093
I love when you said that if you mandate a standard and then fail to provide the ongoing skill, training, skill building tools for it, or don't do the damn thing yourself, guess what the the person in the mirror is the problem.
00:23:40.093 --> 00:23:49.160
Um. You cannot demand consistency from a team that you haven't equipped, and you cannot demand consistency from a team when you aren't consistent.
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.593
Now we've got to look at the pattern thrice.
00:23:52.593 --> 00:23:53.559
Mhm.
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:54.793
Three is a pattern.
00:23:54.793 --> 00:23:55.326
Yes.
00:23:55.326 --> 00:23:56.293
Three is a pattern.
00:23:56.293 --> 00:23:58.093
Thrice is a system.
00:23:58.093 --> 00:23:59.360
If the exact same system.
00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:03.925
Exact same issue happens a third time after you verified the process is solid.
00:24:03.925 --> 00:24:08.393
The anomaly has officially, officially graduated into a pattern.
00:24:08.393 --> 00:24:11.425
I feel like it takes the tassel on its cap and sticks it on the other side.
00:24:11.425 --> 00:24:11.759
It does.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.759
I would say give yourself some timing too, because three times in six years I don't know.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:17.059
Is a pattern correct?
00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:20.259
So correct context one hundred percent.
00:24:20.259 --> 00:24:28.593
Um, for me it's that then we start this is where what's tough about this is so much of this is rearward rearward facing.
00:24:28.593 --> 00:24:30.360
You're seeing this after this happens.
00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:39.726
And that's why I say at the second time you start looking at, okay, what are some things that we may or may not will, may do.
00:24:39.726 --> 00:24:45.793
So that way when the third time it happens, you've got a pretty good idea of where you're going.
00:24:45.793 --> 00:24:51.826
Like I said that that the rearward looking metrics are the ones where you're going to see this thing.
00:24:51.826 --> 00:24:54.192
So assess the shift.
00:24:54.192 --> 00:24:59.059
Like one of the things that I always that I always look at, like, has our external market changed?
00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:06.125
Customer base, software tooling, internal capacity changed in a way that our current SOPs just don't work with.
00:25:06.125 --> 00:25:07.160
Look at what's going through.
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:08.960
We talked about this the other day.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:10.125
Fast food.
00:25:10.125 --> 00:25:10.526
Yeah.
00:25:10.526 --> 00:25:13.759
The market has just changed significantly, significantly.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:23.059
And once again, if the entire market is like losing market share, then you have to look at like, what do we do to change markets?
00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:23.526
Yeah.
00:25:23.526 --> 00:25:27.625
Um, trying to do the exact same thing better probably isn't going to help you.
00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:45.759
Adapting over compliance is another thing is we have to audit the process against these new conditions and adapt that the standard rather than just forcing compliance, like, hey, the it's our favorite saying, we've always done it this way.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.192
Well, vomit.
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.526
I just had a conversation about that today.
00:25:51.526 --> 00:25:52.759
This is the way we've always done it.
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:54.593
I know, and that's why it's no longer working.
00:25:54.593 --> 00:25:56.026
Right, right right.
00:25:56.026 --> 00:25:58.526
That started in the mid eighties.
00:25:58.526 --> 00:25:59.960
Congratulations.
00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:01.593
Those clothes are coming back.
00:26:03.093 --> 00:26:06.226
If the environment is shifted, redesign the SOP.
00:26:06.226 --> 00:26:09.259
Return to that coaching phase with the employees.
00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:17.492
If the environment is completely unchanged and the process remains structurally perfect, it's a behavior of compliance issue.
00:26:17.492 --> 00:26:19.259
You got you got people problem.
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:22.460
Um, so that's where you hit that decision fork.
00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:24.425
That is where you start.
00:26:24.425 --> 00:26:29.293
As we have talked about one of our favorite things, the sweaty ten minute conversation.
00:26:29.293 --> 00:26:31.059
You are no longer talking about the task.
00:26:31.059 --> 00:26:42.425
You are talking about the consistent failure to follow the standard, which is way easier to coach and correct one hundred percent one hundred percent.
00:26:42.425 --> 00:26:45.960
The one thing that I we've talked about the carrot trap.
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:50.526
Don't like watch out for temporary bursts of good behavior.
00:26:50.526 --> 00:26:57.826
Uh, if you have, if you've dangled a carrot to get them to stop making mistake, they haven't shifted their baseline.
00:26:57.826 --> 00:27:00.160
No. They are just renting.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.826
You're just renting compliance.
00:27:01.826 --> 00:27:06.125
Look for consistent, self-sustaining patterns.
00:27:06.125 --> 00:27:08.759
You shouldn't need the carrot to get them to do the baseline thing.
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.093
No. There are certain times where people say, well, we're going to offer an incentive for employees to show up on time.
00:27:13.093 --> 00:27:14.460
No you're not.
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.759
Right.
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:15.692
It's called a paycheck.
00:27:15.692 --> 00:27:16.660
It's called your paycheck.
00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:19.026
It's called a standard of expectations.
00:27:19.026 --> 00:27:20.460
No, we are not.
00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:24.460
You're not going to do that.
00:27:26.893 --> 00:27:36.660
I when I hear stuff like that, I, I, I, we have the, the talk coming up at the big summit and we're talking about how nobody wants to work anymore.
00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:37.293
Yeah.
00:27:37.293 --> 00:27:41.726
And like, those are the things where they're like, this is what we're going to do.
00:27:41.726 --> 00:27:44.026
We're going to offer them an incentive to show up on time.
00:27:44.026 --> 00:27:48.559
And I'm like, oh, no, we have we have so much to talk about.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:49.660
You hired wrong.
00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:52.692
Let's talk about how you're going to hire people that know how to get to work on time.
00:27:52.692 --> 00:27:53.726
Correct.
00:27:53.726 --> 00:27:56.360
Uh, let's, talk about a couple of the pieces with this.
00:27:56.360 --> 00:27:58.160
Like to me, one of the things that I find is the.
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:02.625
Fifteen second pause that in some cases should be a fifteen minute or fifteen day pause.
00:28:02.625 --> 00:28:04.860
Yeah, fifteen seconds is not long enough.
00:28:04.860 --> 00:28:07.360
But no, but it's, it's, it's at least something.
00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:08.526
Mhm.
00:28:08.526 --> 00:28:14.759
Why, why should you take five minutes to look at your notes or dashboard before responding to bad news?
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.726
That's going to prevent you from turning an anomaly into a war.
00:28:18.726 --> 00:28:22.293
Well, because most leadership mistakes happen in the first emotional reaction.
00:28:22.293 --> 00:28:23.160
Oh, gosh.
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:24.425
Yes.
00:28:24.425 --> 00:28:26.059
I mean that pause.
00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:26.360
Yeah.
00:28:26.360 --> 00:28:27.293
That's it.
00:28:27.293 --> 00:28:27.692
Come on.
00:28:27.692 --> 00:28:31.860
How many times have you I, I mean I can't count them.
00:28:31.860 --> 00:28:34.860
So that's just again learn from us and our mistakes.
00:28:34.860 --> 00:28:40.559
How many times have you made an absolute disaster of something because you overreacted in the first fifteen seconds?
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.492
I know I can.
00:28:42.492 --> 00:28:50.492
I don't have enough fingers or toes and no, no, I did my best to when someone would call me with a problem, be like, let me look at a couple of things.
00:28:50.492 --> 00:28:51.160
I'll call you right back.
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.026
Yes, I've gotten really good at it now.
00:28:53.026 --> 00:28:57.192
And because yeah, it's that I it was an emotional circuit breaker for me.
00:28:57.192 --> 00:28:57.460
Yeah.
00:28:57.460 --> 00:28:58.593
Shut the lights off.
00:28:58.593 --> 00:28:59.360
Yes.
00:28:59.360 --> 00:28:59.860
Okay.
00:28:59.860 --> 00:29:01.026
Let's take a couple of minutes.
00:29:01.026 --> 00:29:04.192
Like, how does this actually affect things?
00:29:04.192 --> 00:29:04.759
Yeah.
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:09.160
Um, like look at leaders dashboard, like things like that.
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:09.925
Mhm.
00:29:09.925 --> 00:29:14.393
Take a few minutes to be like what, what, what are the implications of this?
00:29:14.393 --> 00:29:14.559
Yeah.
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:16.692
Because that pause creates curiosity.
00:29:16.692 --> 00:29:17.226
Correct.
00:29:17.226 --> 00:29:20.492
That curiosity prevents assumptions.
00:29:20.492 --> 00:29:22.160
I've never assumed anything.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.492
Me neither.
00:29:23.492 --> 00:29:24.460
Me either.
00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:27.293
I'm always objective.
00:29:27.293 --> 00:29:30.860
What happens when the leader's the one that's not consistent?
00:29:30.860 --> 00:29:36.860
Oh, well, I mean, if your mood changes the rules, your team stops trusting the rules.
00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:40.360
Oh. So, yeah, I mean, leaders create inconsistency.
00:29:40.360 --> 00:29:43.925
They often create the inconsistency that they complain about all the time.
00:29:43.925 --> 00:29:44.492
Mhm.
00:29:44.492 --> 00:29:46.793
So when there's like, I don't know why anybody follows them.
00:29:46.793 --> 00:29:49.393
Like doesn't do this or I don't understand why nobody wants to work here.
00:29:49.393 --> 00:29:51.326
And I'm just like, what have you created?
00:29:51.326 --> 00:29:52.593
I don't know why anybody.
00:29:52.593 --> 00:29:53.992
Why doesn't anybody show up on time?
00:29:53.992 --> 00:29:55.160
Like, what time do you get here?
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:55.759
Ten thirty.
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:56.593
What time does work start?
00:29:56.593 --> 00:29:59.559
Seven thirty okay.
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:04.226
Do you maybe want to come in, like maybe once a week at that time and say hi to everybody?
00:30:04.226 --> 00:30:06.160
Like maybe model what you mandate.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.793
What time do you leave?
00:30:07.793 --> 00:30:08.593
Three.
00:30:08.593 --> 00:30:11.393
Well, what time do you expect everybody else to stay till six thirty?
00:30:11.393 --> 00:30:12.393
Like, hmm.
00:30:12.393 --> 00:30:12.793
Yeah.
00:30:12.793 --> 00:30:18.393
Let's just yeah, it's interesting for me because what I found is I've got a great story about this.
00:30:18.393 --> 00:31:05.923
What, like if a leader bypasses SOPs and the one that I got at a company that I worked at for a very short period of time was just squeeze this in.
00:31:05.923 --> 00:31:09.455
Uh-uh, like no other, no other deadlines could move.
00:31:09.455 --> 00:31:11.855
And what this was, is I still remember this.
00:31:11.855 --> 00:31:15.855
Uh, it was at a video video production company.
00:31:15.855 --> 00:31:20.623
Uh, the, the people we would work with approved the script.
00:31:20.623 --> 00:31:22.990
I was an on camera personality.
00:31:22.990 --> 00:31:24.355
I'd do the script.
00:31:24.355 --> 00:31:31.955
Yeah, we'd edit it, we'd get everything done, and they'd be like, they need to change things in the script.
00:31:31.955 --> 00:31:36.155
And the problem is, is like the project would be due on Thursday.
00:31:36.155 --> 00:31:37.089
We got it done.
00:31:37.089 --> 00:31:38.322
We're like rock stars.
00:31:38.322 --> 00:31:42.923
We got it done Wednesday before we left Thursday morning.
00:31:42.923 --> 00:31:45.690
We come in and like, this needs to be reshot.
00:31:45.690 --> 00:31:46.722
Excuse me.
00:31:46.722 --> 00:31:47.889
Right.
00:31:47.889 --> 00:31:50.655
Uh, we've got three other shoots scheduled today.
00:31:50.655 --> 00:31:51.655
Just fit it in.
00:31:52.923 --> 00:31:54.355
Fit it in to what?
00:31:54.355 --> 00:31:55.190
Yeah.
00:31:55.190 --> 00:31:56.355
And once again.
00:31:56.355 --> 00:32:07.490
And so once again, if you constantly move deadlines, if you constantly move procedures, no one's gonna like, no one's going to have any clue what's a mistake and what's not.
00:32:07.490 --> 00:32:07.855
Exactly.
00:32:07.855 --> 00:32:10.855
And we just got to the point where we're like, okay, the schedule doesn't matter.
00:32:10.855 --> 00:32:12.455
It's just whatever's there.
00:32:12.455 --> 00:32:15.990
Everything, everything's in eleven because it's completely unpredictable.
00:32:15.990 --> 00:32:18.190
And trust requires predictability.
00:32:18.190 --> 00:32:19.722
Yep.
00:32:19.722 --> 00:32:25.155
Do you have you ever kept a, like a notepad of weird occurrences.
00:32:27.056 --> 00:32:27.889
No.
00:32:27.889 --> 00:32:28.522
Okay.
00:32:28.522 --> 00:32:33.123
I just, you know, I, I usually because I've got a weird memory for stuff.
00:32:33.123 --> 00:32:33.522
I do too.
00:32:33.522 --> 00:32:34.190
That's why I don't.
00:32:34.190 --> 00:32:34.789
Yeah.
00:32:34.789 --> 00:32:37.089
That's a trauma response I don't need.
00:32:37.089 --> 00:32:38.589
I've got it in my brain.
00:32:38.589 --> 00:32:41.322
I don't need a notebook for those.
00:32:42.855 --> 00:32:49.990
I spent enough time perseverating on this and having to work through this in my head and not do anything about it.
00:32:49.990 --> 00:32:50.455
Yeah.
00:32:50.455 --> 00:32:53.522
That I'm going to remember this forevermore.
00:32:53.522 --> 00:32:53.789
Yeah.
00:32:53.789 --> 00:32:55.722
Trust me, I don't have a problem with it.
00:32:55.722 --> 00:32:58.690
But I think there could be.
00:32:58.690 --> 00:32:59.722
There's a case for it.
00:32:59.722 --> 00:33:00.490
One hundred percent.
00:33:00.490 --> 00:33:03.155
And I, I like we're we're strange.
00:33:03.155 --> 00:33:04.522
Yeah.
00:33:04.522 --> 00:33:05.955
We're wired different.
00:33:05.955 --> 00:33:07.255
We are wired differently.
00:33:07.255 --> 00:33:19.522
But in the same sense, like I do try to keep when something happens, I try to make a mental note of a date and I try to make a mental note of exactly what did happen in the information that I got.
00:33:19.522 --> 00:33:23.923
Because as long as I can go back and refer to that.
00:33:23.923 --> 00:33:31.722
What what happens is I, I see so many people that are just like, I think something happened at a point in time about a thing.
00:33:31.722 --> 00:33:32.355
Mhm.
00:33:32.355 --> 00:33:34.155
And it probably wasn't the thing.
00:33:35.222 --> 00:33:39.990
Neil deGrasse Tyson does a great talk on how our memories are horrible for most people.
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:40.490
Yeah.
00:33:40.490 --> 00:33:43.222
Um, we remember what we want to how we want to remember it.
00:33:43.222 --> 00:33:44.155
Absolutely.
00:33:44.155 --> 00:33:48.990
If it's related to something else, you're going to be like, this mistake has happened four times.
00:33:48.990 --> 00:33:52.490
No, it's probably been four slightly different mistakes.
00:33:52.490 --> 00:33:56.155
Just because you're thinking of it right now, it's that that way.
00:33:56.155 --> 00:34:03.389
Now, what I will say is if you're going to do something like this, a single line, a date, who what happened?
00:34:03.389 --> 00:34:05.990
And the system or person, which one was it?
00:34:05.990 --> 00:34:08.556
Google keep Microsoft notes.
00:34:08.556 --> 00:34:12.956
Yeah, I love these items, especially if you're in production one hundred percent.
00:34:12.956 --> 00:34:16.623
You can manufacturing, production, those types of things where you've got there on your phone.
00:34:16.623 --> 00:34:17.023
Yep.
00:34:17.023 --> 00:34:21.423
You type it in, you put put it as a voice note in there and just one sheet.
00:34:21.423 --> 00:34:23.956
I use voice notes for stuff like that all the time.
00:34:23.956 --> 00:34:32.356
I mean, people see me incident log something like yes, it's an I go into there's an incident log or whatever, and then I just create a new line for it.
00:34:32.356 --> 00:34:33.655
And then I know what's there.
00:34:33.655 --> 00:34:34.755
You can just do it.
00:34:34.755 --> 00:34:42.255
You just need something that's something that has a record of this somewhere.
00:34:42.255 --> 00:34:45.989
So that way you can look back and be like, oh yeah, that is how that happened.
00:34:45.989 --> 00:34:47.089
It was Bob.
00:34:47.089 --> 00:34:48.690
It wasn't Bill.
00:34:48.690 --> 00:34:50.889
Uh, it was just those things.
00:34:50.889 --> 00:34:58.822
So those details don't slip through key action, like key takeaways, some actionable things.
00:34:58.822 --> 00:35:01.255
What's, uh, what's a big one for you?
00:35:01.255 --> 00:35:03.389
Stay curious longer, I love that.
00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:05.755
Don't let one moment to find the whole story.
00:35:05.755 --> 00:35:08.623
Oh, don't like put your cape down to.
00:35:08.623 --> 00:35:16.589
I think a lot of times we jump in the middle and make a conclusion because this is my chance to be a hero.
00:35:16.589 --> 00:35:17.289
That's exactly right.
00:35:17.289 --> 00:35:19.355
Check your ego at the door.
00:35:19.355 --> 00:35:19.989
All.
00:35:19.989 --> 00:35:20.789
Save the day.
00:35:20.789 --> 00:35:21.222
Save the day.
00:35:21.222 --> 00:35:21.755
No, you will not.
00:35:21.755 --> 00:35:22.690
You'll make it worse.
00:35:22.690 --> 00:35:24.056
Correct.
00:35:24.056 --> 00:35:25.556
What about for you?
00:35:25.556 --> 00:35:27.389
To me, that friction log of sort.
00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:30.655
And once again, I want to warn people with this.
00:35:30.655 --> 00:35:32.989
Don't document to punish Bob.
00:35:32.989 --> 00:35:35.455
This is the fourth time this has happened.
00:35:35.455 --> 00:35:35.822
That's.
00:35:35.822 --> 00:35:37.690
That's not why you're documenting.
00:35:37.690 --> 00:35:40.056
It's you're not documenting this for HR.
00:35:40.056 --> 00:35:42.255
You're documenting this for production.
00:35:42.255 --> 00:35:45.189
The running bullet point list of operational hiccups.
00:35:45.189 --> 00:35:48.389
It doesn't necessarily need to have Bob's name in it every single time.
00:35:48.389 --> 00:35:49.489
Just realize that.
00:35:49.489 --> 00:35:49.889
Yeah.
00:35:49.889 --> 00:35:52.489
And I would say seek context before correction.
00:35:52.489 --> 00:35:55.455
The explanation matters just as much as the event does.
00:35:55.455 --> 00:35:55.789
Yeah.
00:35:55.789 --> 00:35:58.089
Don't assume that they just screwed off that day.
00:35:58.089 --> 00:36:02.755
No. Ask, you know, help me understand if a mistake had.
00:36:02.755 --> 00:36:15.555
To me, if your mistake happens and you're at a seven or eight on your anger level, you are operationally barred from speaking to anyone involved with this for two hours.
00:36:15.555 --> 00:36:17.989
Be like, look, I need to do some research.
00:36:17.989 --> 00:36:18.422
Meaning?
00:36:18.422 --> 00:36:22.722
Hey, I need to go have a cup of coffee, maybe a cold shower.
00:36:22.722 --> 00:36:24.255
Get the shampoo out of my hair.
00:36:24.255 --> 00:36:26.555
Yeah, I'm gonna take a walk.
00:36:26.555 --> 00:36:28.455
Correct, correct.
00:36:28.455 --> 00:36:29.022
Yeah.
00:36:29.022 --> 00:36:32.355
I would say earn the conclusion because the conclusion.
00:36:32.355 --> 00:36:35.089
I mean, it should come from evidence, not emotion.
00:36:35.089 --> 00:36:36.322
We gotta earn it.
00:36:38.189 --> 00:36:41.655
Uh, this is the one that's the tough one for me.
00:36:41.655 --> 00:36:43.622
One of the last actionable things.
00:36:43.622 --> 00:36:44.189
Yes.
00:36:44.189 --> 00:36:57.355
Before you start correcting a behavior behavioral pattern, ask yourself, have I provided the documented tools and support required to make success repeatable?
00:36:57.355 --> 00:37:00.589
In other words, am I the problem?
00:37:00.589 --> 00:37:02.922
And you gotta be honest about it.
00:37:02.922 --> 00:37:03.722
Oh yeah.
00:37:03.722 --> 00:37:05.855
You gotta be honest about it.
00:37:05.855 --> 00:37:09.355
Here's, here's a, here's one that I was really excited to talk about.
00:37:09.355 --> 00:37:13.089
How do you handle a client who's got a pattern of breaking your processes?
00:37:13.089 --> 00:37:15.655
Because I know you've experienced that and I like.
00:37:15.655 --> 00:37:18.955
For me, I know we've had a problem with it with a couple of them.
00:37:18.955 --> 00:37:19.189
Yeah.
00:37:19.189 --> 00:37:21.089
It's the same way we handle it with employees.
00:37:21.089 --> 00:37:23.355
You know, one time is a conversation.
00:37:23.355 --> 00:37:25.422
A pattern requires boundaries.
00:37:25.422 --> 00:37:28.055
So, you know, healthy relationships require accountability.
00:37:28.055 --> 00:37:32.489
And if they're a prospect, we, we just don't allow it.
00:37:32.489 --> 00:37:40.822
So that's the other part is like you, you coach the client before they become your client and what the expectations are.
00:37:40.822 --> 00:37:41.922
Yeah.
00:37:41.922 --> 00:37:48.855
Like when we, when I saw that we were going to talk about this question, I was like, my answer is a little curt.
00:37:48.855 --> 00:37:57.322
Uh, we, we handle like, if a client breaks our processes because I'm a process oriented guy, we don't, we don't work with them.
00:37:57.322 --> 00:37:57.889
Yeah.
00:37:57.889 --> 00:38:09.622
Uh, we, I like, I want to work with people and I like to me, I, I love looking at our processes to see if they need changed for a circumstance or to see like how we can improve on them.
00:38:09.622 --> 00:38:10.422
Yeah.
00:38:10.422 --> 00:38:12.322
We're not your bitch.
00:38:12.322 --> 00:38:14.289
No. And, here's the other part.
00:38:14.289 --> 00:38:19.455
Because of some of the things that we do, we're like, we're not going to discriminate or commit fraud on your behalf.
00:38:19.455 --> 00:38:20.189
Employer.
00:38:21.389 --> 00:38:22.189
I'm sorry.
00:38:22.189 --> 00:38:24.889
You know, I know that we yeah, we don't meet participation.
00:38:24.889 --> 00:38:26.722
Can you just fudge the numbers for the benefits?
00:38:26.722 --> 00:38:28.489
No, we cannot.
00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:28.789
Right.
00:38:28.789 --> 00:38:32.989
Well, why not like find another agent that will break those rules for you?
00:38:32.989 --> 00:38:33.722
Because I'm sorry.
00:38:33.722 --> 00:38:36.455
We have hundreds of other clients that would like us to stay licensed.
00:38:36.455 --> 00:38:38.489
So, no. And in business and in business.
00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:40.989
I mean, do you want to tell my family why we lost our insurance license?
00:38:40.989 --> 00:38:43.589
Because you thought you were special and didn't have to follow the rules?
00:38:43.589 --> 00:38:47.855
No. I'm special, just like everybody else.
00:38:47.855 --> 00:38:51.189
I will fight them like you are not.
00:38:51.189 --> 00:38:52.255
You are not our client.
00:38:52.255 --> 00:38:54.522
You can't do that.
00:38:54.522 --> 00:38:55.855
I've seen crazy angry.
00:38:55.855 --> 00:38:56.989
Don't do that.
00:38:56.989 --> 00:39:05.755
Is it is a bad attitude, an anomaly or a pattern if it only shows up on Monday.
00:39:05.755 --> 00:39:06.989
This to me, I love.
00:39:06.989 --> 00:39:09.455
Oh well, I think if it's every Monday it's a pattern.
00:39:09.455 --> 00:39:14.122
But the question becomes what is Monday trying to tell us.
00:39:14.122 --> 00:39:15.789
So. And for some people, it's.
00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:21.655
They spent way too much time with their family over the weekend, and they just get back to work candidly.
00:39:21.655 --> 00:39:23.555
And for other ones, it's like, wait a second.
00:39:23.555 --> 00:39:28.355
What do we what where is the stress level and what are the things that they're walking into on Monday?
00:39:28.355 --> 00:39:32.489
So I, to me one hundred percent, it is a pattern.
00:39:32.489 --> 00:39:34.755
It's only bad enough that you see it on Monday.
00:39:34.755 --> 00:39:35.755
Yeah, that's true too.
00:39:35.755 --> 00:39:38.355
It's the same pattern every other day.
00:39:38.355 --> 00:39:42.255
It's just not so blatant that you see it every other day.
00:39:42.255 --> 00:39:43.522
What's the, uh.
00:39:43.522 --> 00:39:45.355
This is what I love this.
00:39:45.355 --> 00:39:48.355
What's what's one operational tool?
00:39:48.355 --> 00:39:56.589
Let's put crusty in here that makes tracking patterns easiest for a five person team.
00:39:56.589 --> 00:39:59.255
That's like a notebook or the notes app on your phone.
00:39:59.255 --> 00:40:01.455
Like it doesn't have to be hard.
00:40:01.455 --> 00:40:02.355
That's my thought.
00:40:02.355 --> 00:40:02.722
Yeah.
00:40:02.722 --> 00:40:04.922
No, I and for me, it's sheets.
00:40:04.922 --> 00:40:11.422
Uh, that's amazing to me that you say sheets really Like all the tools in the world?
00:40:11.422 --> 00:40:12.555
No. It's simple, it's good.
00:40:12.555 --> 00:40:13.989
She I I sheets.
00:40:13.989 --> 00:40:16.222
I love everything about sheets.
00:40:16.222 --> 00:40:21.222
The amount of data that I can get out of stupid, like a three column, whatever.
00:40:21.222 --> 00:40:26.122
Oh yeah, I just I sheets is just my it's like my.
00:40:26.122 --> 00:40:28.155
I've ever seen you that excited know if.
00:40:30.089 --> 00:40:34.955
Like if there's an option to do my iRacing game or build a spreadsheet.
00:40:34.955 --> 00:40:35.855
I'm in the spreadsheet.
00:40:35.855 --> 00:40:36.389
Really?
00:40:36.389 --> 00:40:37.089
Oh, okay.
00:40:37.089 --> 00:40:37.522
Oh, yeah.
00:40:37.522 --> 00:40:38.422
All day long.
00:40:38.422 --> 00:40:39.122
All day long.
00:40:39.122 --> 00:40:40.022
I learned something new.
00:40:40.022 --> 00:40:43.422
Give, give, give me the data.
00:40:43.422 --> 00:40:45.022
Okay.
00:40:45.022 --> 00:40:46.222
I heard that.
00:40:47.455 --> 00:40:50.955
That being said, if you haven't been scared off yet today.
00:40:50.955 --> 00:40:52.855
Thank you for sticking around.
00:40:52.855 --> 00:40:56.289
We really appreciate everyone's coming along for the ride.
00:40:56.289 --> 00:40:58.222
Do us a big, big, big favor.
00:40:58.222 --> 00:40:59.755
First off, give us a review.
00:40:59.755 --> 00:41:04.389
We've been seeing a lot of comments to on the social medias, which have been amazing.
00:41:04.389 --> 00:41:11.189
Uh, it's, it's really kind of I'm, I love the fact that I hear that we're helping so many people.
00:41:11.189 --> 00:41:13.155
Yes, we're validating that.
00:41:13.155 --> 00:41:13.522
Yeah.
00:41:13.522 --> 00:41:19.722
I'm also horrified by the number of employees that I have heard from over the past couple of weeks.
00:41:19.722 --> 00:41:21.455
Like, my boss needs to hear this.
00:41:21.455 --> 00:41:25.689
And please, by all means, tag them, tag your boss, send this to your boss.
00:41:25.689 --> 00:41:27.955
If you need us to send it, we might find.
00:41:27.955 --> 00:41:28.755
I'm happy to.
00:41:28.755 --> 00:41:31.222
Yeah, we'll find a way to send this to your boss.
00:41:31.222 --> 00:41:32.855
We would love to be able to do that for you.
00:41:32.855 --> 00:41:34.189
Maybe that's our.
00:41:34.189 --> 00:41:35.789
We may have to work on that.
00:41:35.789 --> 00:41:38.922
Yeah, go to business fix podcast dot com for us.
00:41:38.922 --> 00:41:41.222
By all means, do us a favor, take care of yourself.
00:41:41.222 --> 00:41:43.089
If you can take care of someone else too.
00:41:43.089 --> 00:41:45.689
We will see you very, very soon.