#76 - Dr. Janette Kurban on Ancient Ear Acupuncture Points and Modern Practice, Part 2

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Hello and welcome to another episode of
The Factor podcast. I'm your host,
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Jessica Riddle. Welcome and thanks for
listening. In today's episode, we pick
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back up with our fascinating course on
erriculotherapy with doctor Jeanette Kurbin. In part
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one of this training, doctor Kerbin
introduced the twelve master points of aerriculotherapy,
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or acupuncture that is applied to specific
points on the ear. It was incredible
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to hear about the various ways that
these tiny points in the ear can create
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substantial changes in the body, impacting
everything from hormones to anxiety, hypertension,
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and of course, musculoskeletal pain.
Today we talk through a number of case
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studies and real world examples of how
to apply aurriculotherapy in your practice, including
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how to combine acupuncture as part of
a ultimodal treatment plan. We touch on
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the effects of bilateral versus unilateral treatment
and the clinical decision making involved with determining
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where to start and how to introduce
and explain this type of therapy to a
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patient. So grab something to take
notes with and be sure to download this
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episode to listen more than once.
Let's dive in. Next, we have
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the sympathetic autonomic point. And it
is the easiest way that I've ever found
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to locate this one is you go
to the antihelix. You've got your helix,
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you go to the anti helix cross
there, but it's on the helix,
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are underneath the helix as the anti
helix cruse or cross connects. So
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if you're looking at the ear again, and I'll do this again, say
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it's a clock in twelve o'clock is
the allergy point which we covered first one
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o'clock, I would say that the
sympathetic autonomic point is around two o'clock on
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that grid. It affects the sympathetic
and the parasympathetic nervous system and the balance
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between the two. It's used for
spasms, pain, and smooth muscles.
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Many practitioners use it in their asthmatic
patients. Does affect the equilibrium of the
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body. That means equilibrium balance,
improves circulation via vasodilation. So it's used
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in any stress related health disorder,
and again much much more. There's too
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much to put on one slide of
what sympathetic autonomic point can use, but
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distinct spasm sympathetic autonomic So a patient
with lots of spasms and you have to
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go under that little ridge there to
find it. Not hard to do,
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not hard to find. Okay,
now on the next one, the thalamus
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point, let's first find its location
again. It's going to be hidden underneath
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the little ridge there. The easiest
way for me to tell you to find
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this one is fine. The anti
tragis and the anti tragus is found.
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There's a little it's almost like a
little bulb that sticks up there on the
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ear rim and you can see the
little bulge there, a little bump.
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It's underneath there. That's the anti
traggus. It's right underneath there for over
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excitement. It would regulate schizophrenic patient
or depressed patient, restores tranquility, reduces
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chronic pain. So you want to
take it anytime you have a patient who's
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been hurting I think for more than
six months is chronic. But you and
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I both know. We see patients
who have been hurting every day for ten
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years come in and this can actually
be reduced or stop the chronic pain.
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I've actually seen it to where the
patient just goes The next morning, I
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woke up and I'm not stiff anymore, and I don't hurt in the mornings
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anymore. After one treatment the next
week, actually this was really recently,
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the lady comes in. She's referred
to me by her internal medicine doctor,
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who actually had come in and been
introduced to ocupuncture instead of his third back
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surgery. He knew that would not
be successful, and so he was trying
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anything he had heard about acupuncture,
heard about me. Came in and he's
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now sending me at least one to
two new patients a week. I never
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asked him to, but he he
had such great results. It kept him
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from a third neurosurgery. It was
just amazing for him, and so I
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was so happy for him, And
now he's sending these patients with it.
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Just a plethora of diagnoses. This
little lady is your typical osteoporotic in a
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walker, already bent over almost almost
eighty degrees just so sad can't straighten up.
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Her back has already grown that way
with the dowager's hump. But she
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is so uncomfortable and hurts so crawning
that she has to sleep on her couch,
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so which makes it even worse because
she's humped in a little fetal ball.
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And after one occupuncture treatment, this
has been about a month ago.
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She came in the next week.
I see her once a week and she
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said, it hasn't stopped all the
pain. But when I get up in
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the morning now I'm no longer stiff. I used to hurt in the mornings,
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and now when I get up in
the mornings, I don't hurt.
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Haven't hurt all week. So I'll
take that. It's used for drug detoxification,
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internal organ function. Tona finds the
brain and calms the mind. So
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again Thalamu's point, it is related
to the modulation of pain. It's wonderful,
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wonderful, wonderful for pain. So
don't forget that one. If you
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have pain patience, which I think
most of us probably do, way more
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than we probably want. But that's
that's what we can we can help.
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The tranquilizer point, where's that.
Okay, that's going to be on the
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surface, really easy to find.
You will find the tragus, which you
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see kind of like little bud growing
out there at the side of the ear,
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underneath the helix root. That's the
tragus, and right below the tragus
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almost between it's between the intertragic notch
which is at the bottom there where the
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ear starts back up the little form
of the ear. It's halfway between the
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tragos and the intertragic notch. Is
your tranquilizer point. Well, it's great
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for any type of anxiety, overall
relaxation, general sedation. It's also a
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good point for your hypertensive patients along
with and chronic stress. Now along with
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your hypertensive patient, if you're allowed
to treat hypertension, or say you just
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want to treat it in yourself or
you're someone there in your family, that
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point, along with the allergy point
being bled with a little tiny lancet can
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bring down the hyper tension immediately.
It's an amazing thing to watch. We've
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actually done it in class where the
person the same person took their blood pressure
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and then we bled that allergy point, treated the hypertension point. And I
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think we might have treated a couple
of other ones too in the ear only
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and then ten minutes later took their
blood pressure it had lowered by ten to
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fifteen points on both the systolic and
diastolic. And there's been case studies on
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this too, so you can look
those up if you need to on the
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internet. But it's not a secret
that that point can help lower blood pressure.
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Now for pain control, this is
not one of your master points,
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per se. But I thought,
okay, I don't want to focus this
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whole thing on pain. But we
do treat pain, and patients come in
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and they want their pain treated.
But I always tell them we can treat
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pain. It's like the branch tree, but we want to get to the
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root. But I don't mind treating
the branches, but we don't want to
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cut off the branches. We want
to get to the root, right,
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And they'll say, sure, we
want to get to the cause. I
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will eventually get to the cause.
But if we need to treat your pain
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in order to get you to come
back and understand that we need to do
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more to get to the route,
possibly let's get your pain under control,
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because it makes for a miserable life, and miserable life, miserable wife,
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and all the other things people say. So these are the most commonly used
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points for pain control class. You
can see here. Most of them are
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on the surface. There's only two
or three that are hidden. I hope
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you can use this slide. The
ones for dental analgesia have been used by
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dentists now for decades and very well
researched, and tons of case types out
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on that. If you want to
look at a lot of case types without
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researching yourself, the book by Olsen
is the best auricular therapy manual. He's
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got just dozens and dozens of case
studies in there. But you have your
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spinal cord, your brain stem,
just everything. Psiatic nerve is a great
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control point to use on your patients
with sciatica. So you'll find your favorites
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and pick those. And I've even
had some students use the dental ANALOGESUA for
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like if they're going in to have
their tooth fill, they didn't want to
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get their face all numb with much
success. And the dentists all know about
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it. Not all of them are
versed in it, but they all know
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about these points and they know that
they work. So it's kind of nice
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to be just recognized by the entire
world. Now for all these points.
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Now here are the two extra master
points that weren't on the original slide of
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the ten. There's the one for
the upper limb use for pain and swelling
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in the upper extremities, anything in
the arms, anything elbow, anything in
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the forearm, wrist, fingers.
Great point to use. You go,
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okay, well, where the heck
is that one? Where I would say
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that one is is if you're at
the lobe there at the very bottom.
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It looks to me like to be
about I don't know, maybe eight o'clock.
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If we're going on up the clock
up the actual helix, it's down
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the helix tail. It could be
almost at the very end of the tail
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is what I would call that,
where the tail meets the lobe, the
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anti helix tail meets the lobe,
if you're looking at that slide. So
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there's your upper limb master point.
Again. They only need to be stimulated
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for three to five seconds. It's
not long, not long at all.
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In fact, the patient a lot
of times say it's their wrist and they've
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got carpal tunnel maybe, and it's
their risk. What I would have them
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do while I'm treating it is slowly
move your wrist now in the direction that
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used to hurt, and just move
it now move it in every direction.
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So for three to five seconds,
they just move it, move it,
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move it. And a lot of
times during the motion they'll thea liliar feel
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a release, or they'll hear a
pop or feel a pop. It's it's
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pretty amazing and audible. Actually you
can even hear it. Or they'll say,
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oh, that doesn't hurt anymore,
so it's pretty special. Same thing
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with the lower limb. Say it's
their knee. So they're sitting and while
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I'm treating this point actually almost at
the helix root just above that at tregs
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notch there next to the helix root, I'll have them moved the knee or
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I'll say move it in the position
where it hurt and keep slowly actively moving
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that and they will feel a click. They'll feel yeah, a crepitas pop,
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whatever you want to call it,
click, and say it's not hurting
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anymore. I can't believe this,
and it'll just be an AHA moment.
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So those are the slides. I
wanted to make sure most of you probably
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saw the little acknowledgment there at the
bottom. Doctor adrinlos Larson with Meridia tech
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dot Com, thank you Jessica for
letting me are allowing me to acknowledge him
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for his letting us learn from his
three D A recular program. He's actually
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a very dear friend and has said
here with your legend that we could as
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teachers use any of these, and
he just wanted a little blurb that said
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hello and thanking him, and so
thanks doctor Larson. Contact info is here
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for you in the future. And
then again if you want to look up
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some electrical devices or anything more about
Erriculo three D classes whatever, he has
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those available there from his website.
Thank you very much. This was fun
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and I can't wait for questions.
Imagine what it would be like if you
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knew exactly how to treat every single
patient that comes into your office. To
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have one hundred percent certainty that you
can tackle whatever comes through your doors,
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whether that means treating them in house
or referring them out to another healthcare provider.
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Now, imagine being able to provide
them with effective care that gets them
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out of pain and moving better in
a fraction of the time, progressing them
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through the phases of healing in the
most efficient way possible. While this may
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sound like a utopian dream, what
I've just described is a reality for FACTOR
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certified healthcare providers around the globe,
and the one thing that they have that
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you don't is a system. If
I've piqued your interest, I encourage you
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to visit FACTOR Education dot com that's
fak TR education dot com and learn more
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about Factor certification and view our upcoming
hands on Core States. Now on with
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the show. Wonderful. Thank you
so much, doctor Kurban. This was
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absolutely fascinating and one thing that really
piquked my interest was to hear you talk
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about the use of these points when
patients are doing different movements or moving some
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of the joints that are affected,
which fits in perfectly with our Factor rehab
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systems. So those of you that
are Factor docs out there listening, it's
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really cool to kind of hear all
of the different modalities and treatments that can
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be utilized kind of in line with
the FACTOR system. So to that end,
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doctor Kurban, if you could tell
us a little bit about some of
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your favorite modalities or other treatments that
you use in combination with these master points,
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I'd love to hear a little bit
about and I know there's no such
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thing as a typical patient visit,
but a little bit about some of the
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treatments that you find are really effective
when combined with these master points. Well,
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yeah, oh, thank you Jessica
so much. I would love to
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share with you, especially well,
we'll just take back pain for it.
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That's mazingly what we see, it
seems like. But again I'm seeing a
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lot of shoulders. There's a point
called master shoulder that we haven't gotten into
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here that this works like magic.
Just a personal snippet here, and I
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don't really like to talk about myself, but last year I went for I
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had a lifting injury in the shoulder, and it just there was nothing wrong
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with the shoulder as far as impingement. It was. It was a tendant.
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It was tendon, notus and in
just six months it just would not
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go away. I tried everything I
tried. I did laser, I did
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rehab, I did your stretching and
massage and my old fashion release and on
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and on and on. So I
was teaching up in Kansas City one weekend
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and we actually had doctor Larson come
and he was doing an Erriculo section and
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showing us point or plus or point
or select, and he just I thought,
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okay, I just felt it in
my gut. I never did this
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because I would let pay I'd let
students and the doctors and the class be
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treated. But he goes, does
anyone have anything going on they'd like for
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me to treat today? And I
just like couldn't even jump up fast enough.
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And for six months I had liked, really and truly on a daily
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basis, did everything that I knew
to do, adjusting you name it,
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and to no avail, and was
really kind of getting tired of that pain
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to the point where I would just
roll over in bed. It would wake
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me up. So I'm not doing
well there. And he treated me with
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electrical He treated the master shoulder,
He treated shen minn divine gay, and
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he also treated the cervical and as
I was making the passive mill motion with
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my shoulder in the direction where it
was hurting, it just automatically range your
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motion increased by seventy five percent at
least the first treatment, and the whole
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audience he and I just went whoa. It made such an audible crepitace and
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click when it finally released that the
whole crowd could hear. I mean,
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I think there are about forty five
fifty people in the room and everyone went
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whoa. It was so loud,
and I immediately felt relief. And to
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this day, this was last year. This was probably last June July.
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Almost a year now, the shoulder
has not bothered me at all not at
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all, So we see that kind
of results in our patients too. I'll
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just share that with you personally.
And that's what made me even go I
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need to be doing more a riculo. I was doing a riculo, but
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I thought there's so many modern tools
out here now, and through Meridia dot
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Com, he has the most modern
in my opinion, I've looked at all
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of them, and the crazy thing
is he doesn't mostly he doesn't mostly market
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to chiropractors. He's a chiropractor,
but he has the acupuncturestin with him that
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help him and he's mostly the acupunctures
and ipts and things like that. So
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he's a pretty great guy and he's
got some great tools there and great learning
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videos. But yes, that would
be a proto call. But again,
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always adjust first, and he made
sure that I had been adjusted before he
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treated me. Just all the tools
that you have to me. I hope
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that answered are helped a little bit, Jessica. But that's just a personal
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opinion and actually happened to me last
year, and I was pretty I was
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starting to get a little concerned about
it. So, especially as a chiropractor,
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you don't want to have that kind
of shoulder paying the rest of your
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life. So oh absolutely, and
especially because what you provide, the service
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and the care that you provide is
so physical. I know how important it
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is to kind of keep your body
in shape. And one thing we've heard
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time and time again from docs throughout
various disciplines, not just chiropractors, but
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pts, mds as well, is
that you really can't just rely on only
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one tool in your tool belt.
You really have to have a diverse various
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offerings that you can pull from because
you never know what type of patient is
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going to walk in your door and
what they're facing specifically, So when it
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comes to your assessments and the exams
that you do with a new are there
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specific symptoms or indications things that they
say that kind of jump out as a
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red flag that make you think,
Okay, these master points would be perfect
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for this like this. If I
see this in my exam, I know
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immediately this is something that I can
treat and get them some immediate relief.
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Yes, absolutely, Jessica, you
just you learn that as a physician.
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I think you are any provider.
You see so much over the years,
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and the protocols are all there for
us and as far as anything specific,
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there's just so much to choose from. And sometimes it'll take one or two
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tries you'll think, Okay, well
that didn't really give me the results that
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I wanted, so we'll try this
exercise or this stretch or modify. But
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with acupuncture, it's just is pretty
amazing. I'll call it stuff. And
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it should not amaze me. I've
only been certified or since five, so
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going on twenty years of this and
teaching for over ten now, but it's
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still it shouldn't amaze me. But
it still just amazes me every day.
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And the research coming out, the
newer research with the fmriyes and the blood
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tests and the scans, the brain
scans, of how we're proving how these
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endocrine points really do produce different hormones
in the brain and blood. It's almost
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automatically. It really. It always
makes me wonder, how did the ancients
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know, how did they where were
they given these points, and how were
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they given these points? But it
does fly out at you, and I
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think the more you do it,
the more those points come to you.
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And that's why I wanted today to
cover the master points, because these are
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some that will never fail you and
you don't really have to think about them.
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And if you just knew these ten
points or half of these ten points,
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you could help almost every patient that
walks in your office with this adjunct
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modality. No, absolutely, And
I think it is fascinating to think about
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some of these treatments and how long
they've been around and how they were utilized
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at a time where understanding of the
human body was very different, and again
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based upon what we knew at the
time and what we understood. But then
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again, sometimes if you look at
how they understood it back then versus now,
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there are some things that they did
a little bit better. I think
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many of us would say. When
it comes to the use of seeds,
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I know you mentioned earlier on in
the presentation that there are different seeds that
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could possibly be used that you could
send a patient home with. How do
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you incorporate those with some of these
points? Do you ever put a seed
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on and then send a patient home
for a period of time? What does
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that look like like? How long
are they leaving those on before they come
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back to you and need actually to
have needles inserted in those points? Well,
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actually, they we have pressed on
needles too that they can take out
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of the office with them in and
it depends. I like to use the
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acupatches because their silver are their gold
or their stainless steel, and so if
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that point needs to be sedated,
if it's a hyperactive point or or excess
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chi, then I know I can
use silver because it sedates, and then
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Jessica gold will always tonify, and
then stainless steel will do either one.
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So I tell people who are beginning
to get your acupactures, maybe get three
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of each kind, but mostly get
the stainless steel because they're amphoteric. In
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other words, they'll either raise or
lower the energy in that point depending upon
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what the body tells that point it
needs at that particular time. And that's
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what makes it so beautiful because you
can't make the patient worse when you use
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stainless steel. If a patient,
say, if say you're treating a patient
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for weight loss or smoking something excess, they were smoking too much or eating
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too much same part of the brain. You could if you knew that,
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if you knew after the history and
exam that that patient's problem was it was
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just excessive. Their chie was excessive
there, their nervousness was excessive, you
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could sedate that point with the silver, but you could always just stick that
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stain the steel on there and then
the guessing's gone. The body does what
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it needs to do with that point
again, because the different metals have different
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energy frequencies in the body. And
you can actually use those ocupactches on any
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point on the body too, but
I use them a lot in the ear
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more so even than the different types
of seeds that you can put in there.
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Do leave them depending. They'll usually
come off in the shower eventually after
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three to four days, but take
them off and then reinsert them the next
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time you see the patient if you
need to. But a lot of acupunctures
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leave them in their an entire week. You can leave them in a week.
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If they're press needles and taped on, those can stay a week.
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But again you're liable for what goes
on there, so I'm always really careful
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when I'm teaching it that you want
to be careful the a sp needles and
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things like that that go deeper that
can do damage to the cartilage that I've
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actually seen it and heard about it
quite a bit. They're pretty they kind
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of display when they hit the carlage
and again can do some damage and cause
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problems. So I always make sure
when I use those press needles that it's
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a patient that I know I can
that will actually do what I tell them
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to do and take it out after
three days, say, or whatever the
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instructions are. So anytime you send
things like that home that do pierce the
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skin, there's always a chance of
infection, so you want to keep that
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in mind and maybe just use the
press. The press on acupatches and stainless
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steel is your best bet there.
Absolutely, that's great advice, and I
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think really fascinating to hear that there
are some kind of different types of metals
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that can have an interesting effect.
And especially for those of you who might
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be considering getting certified in acupuncture,
definitely look to instructors like doctor Kurban that
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are experts of this that can kind
of give you some advice and guidance on
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and building out that toolkit and the
things that you want to take into consideration
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early on. Tell me a little
bit about follow up care and treat meant
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frequency for these type of patients.
And I know, obviously with all of
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the master points covered today, there's
a variety of different conditions and symptoms that
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are being addressed here, But do
you have kind of some standard rules of
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thumb when it comes to treating these
master points for how often a patient should
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come back in or what your follow
up exam looks like after that first treatment.
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Actually, Jessica, you would just
implement. I would suggest that you
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implement the modality of acupuncture into your
treatment plan that you already have. So
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if you're seeing the patient three days
a week for two weeks and then so
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it's your treatment plan already. It's
not a separate treatment plan for the acupuncture.
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Just end it. Adjust the patient. If they're not doing needles that
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day, and are you're just an
ariculo electrical erriculo doctor, then just take
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out your point or plus or whatever
you're going to be using. If you
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do electrical and treat, treat treat
five to ten seconds max on two or
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three points and they're off. So
it's not really you don't have a separate
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plan. It depends on what your
treatment plan is already. You don't have
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a separate day they would come in
for accupunt. You just implement it like
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you would if you say, okay, we've adjusted you, now let's go
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back to rehab. And let's do
thirty minutes of rehab stretching. I hope
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that answered the question. It's not
now, I just implement it right in.
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It takes again three to five seconds
for every point, and you pick
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two or three points that after you
examine the patient and do the history and
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all that good stuff and see how
they're doing. If they're improving and they
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have something else that's kind of bothering
them today, you can take that little
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point or plus and use that on
a different point in the ear. So
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it's it's so versatile. I love
it. It's so quick. It takes
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nothing. Once you learn the points, it's just so much faster. They
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don't lay there for twenty minutes with
the needles on and you have to sit
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there with them and take the notes. It's time consuming. Although you can
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use the electrical all over the body
too, and many people are going that
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route instead of having the twenty minute
session where they lie down with needles in
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them. They're going that session because
they're seeing you get great fast results with
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electrical. They're super fast, sometimes
instantaneously. Like I mentioned my shoulder,
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almost instantly the shoulder released, I
heard the crepitus and then I heard the
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release, and then everyone heard the
release actually, and then no more pain,
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no more ten. It was a
little sore the next day, but
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not like it was ever for six
months. That's fascinating. So essentially you
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can utilize the electrotherapy to get a
much faster response and I guess kind of
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a more focused response. Is it
essentially the same as what you would achieve
359
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through that twenty minutes of having the
needle on? Is it kind of swapping
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out one for the other, or
are there instances where you would definitely want
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to utilize the electrical instead of that
twenty minute barring time not being a consideration
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there, but are there specific circumstances
where you really want to have that additional
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energy going in. That's a great
question, Jessica. It's especially for your
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needle averse patients. They don't even
realize that you can have acupuncture with no
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needles, and when they find that
out, they are so happy and it
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is quicker. A lot of times
you get an instant response, it's supercharged
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almost. But then there's also those
patients who don't believe that they're getting acupuncture
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unless they're lying down for twenty minutes
with the zen music going on in a
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darkened room and relaxing and with needlesticking
in them, and so they benefit also.
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So you would go by each individual, I go by individual patients.
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I was quite I was quite surprised
when I first started acupuncture in my office
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that how many wanted the needles because
I give them a choice, and when
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you have a needle averse patient,
of course, they're like all over that
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electrical acupuncture. They love it,
love it, love it, and tell
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everyone they know about it. Where
is the needle patient? A lot of
376
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times, what I'm finding is the
patients who want to be they want to
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relax. Sometimes they are that's the
only time of the day where they are
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actually not being overwhelmed with stimuli.
They A lot of times I stay in
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the room with patients and I'll work
on notes or whatever it is I need
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to work on. And now that
I'm kind of in a semi retirement state,
381
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not retired, still seeing patients,
but not always will but just not
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forty to sixty to whatever how many
patients a day, people see that they
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relax enough to sleep, and when
they're sleeping, they're really getting their bodies
384
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really taken over their control there and
so they both have their benefits. But
385
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I see especially if they want in
and out. So you have those patients
386
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I always call them the seven am
patients who are going on their way to
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work and they just want in and
out. They don't want to do the
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roller intersegmental traction, they don't want
to do any exercises, and they just
389
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want to come in and get their
adjustment leaf. Those patients would be great
390
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for electrical patients come in after work, say, or they just have a
391
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stressful life. They need to lie
there for fifteen to twenty minutes because of
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relaxing and learning to breathe and letting
that body heal itself is all their healing
393
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process too. So I would say, go by your individual patient and what
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you know they need as the provider, and you will know after speaking with
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them, even on a first visit, what would be best for them.
396
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But I do give them a choice. I do say, okay, this
397
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is the deal, and I tell
them I show them this is a needle,
398
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but it's not really a needle,
and it's not hollow. It doesn't
399
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suck blood you're used to. That
doesn't give injections, medicines, vaccines,
400
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.559
whatever that you're used to. It's
the diameter of a hair. It's very
401
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very tiny. And most of my
patients, to be honest, and it's
402
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.920
not me. It's the technique that
you learn through education. Don't even feel
403
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.799
the needles go in. They'll say, you don't have ten needles in right
404
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now, and I go, well, we actually do five on each side.
405
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You have them all in and so
don't move. And that's another thing.
406
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.000
If they're real fidgety and you know
they can't quit moving, then yes,
407
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.079
do electrical. So all the kiddos, all the kiddos, I do
408
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.640
not stick needles and kids, so
that would be an absolute. We don't
409
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.039
stick needles and children. They're already
scared of needles. They already have been
410
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.480
programmed to know what needles are.
So never, I never, and I
411
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.039
never teach to stick children now and
now in China they do. I mean,
412
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.680
you see little kids sitting in a
chair six, seven, eight years
413
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:29.359
old, but not here. We
use electrical on all kiddos. I do
414
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.519
here. Yes, And that's a
great point. I think it obviously can
415
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.839
vary, especially depending upon cultural acceptance
and when kids are accustomed to something,
416
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:42.160
because it's just commonplace and very prevalent
in their culture. There's a very different
417
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:48.880
mindset. I'm sure what age group
would you like for your personal guidelines?
418
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:56.799
What age is your cutoff where you'll
start doing needles versus is kiddo thirteen and
419
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.279
under or eight and under? Do
you have kind of a arranged that you
420
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.839
look too to where if they're under
a certain age, it's definitely no needles,
421
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.400
you know what, Jessica, another
great question. I don't. I
422
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.880
just, for instance, I had
a young boy who had some sports pain.
423
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.440
I think he was probably in middle
school, he's maybe thirteen, just
424
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.319
a month or two ago, and
his mother had been coming in for needle
425
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:23.119
occupuncture and he wanted to try it. So he came in and the mom's
426
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.720
in the room with him, and
she just goes, you want me to
427
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.640
stay in here with you because I
can, And he's just like, Nope,
428
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.200
you don't need to. And I
said, well, you want me
429
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.119
to go ahead and treat your mom
first so you can see how it works
430
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.759
and what it feels like to her. And he goes, no, I'm
431
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.960
ready to go. And he wanted
needles, So again, I give them
432
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:45.240
the choice under twelve or so,
I don't. I just think there's methods
433
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.200
for children. There's a whole other
course that you can spend forty hours on
434
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:51.880
called shony Shin, and there's books
out on it, shony Shin for Children,
435
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.319
And there happens to be a doctor
Soma Glick out of Boulder, the
436
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:59.480
school in Boulder that teaches that course
that I've been privileged to be part of,
437
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.440
and she she's incredible with kiddos.
So they have other little tools you
438
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.079
can use for babies, for infants
or newborns, but no sticking of needles
439
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.599
and children. So again this little
boy, he didn't care. He's like,
440
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:15.240
no, I want needle like my
mom. So we put needles in
441
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.079
him and he laid there and he
was real still, and think he even
442
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.240
probably went to sleep and came in
two or three times and it seemed to
443
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:27.240
help him, he said it did. So again just got to you gotta
444
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.799
go buy your patience and what they
want. If he would have said the
445
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:32.359
second time, I don't know if
I want needles again, I want to
446
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.880
just do the electrical, then there'd
been no problem to switch over either.
447
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.480
So be flexible and again don't I
don't force anything on children for sure,
448
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.519
and giving them choices a lot of
times, I don't know. I'm just
449
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.640
a choice person, so I give
them. I give adults and children choices.
450
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:53.480
No, absolutely, I think that
definitely gives them that sense of being
451
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:59.079
able to control and kind of have
decisions over their own body. That's definitely
452
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:01.279
important. And we only have a
few minutes here, but I did have
453
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:07.000
a few more questions that our attendees
have written in with one person was asking,
454
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:14.960
have there been any surprising or unexpected
symptoms or conditions that you've seen improved
455
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.079
through using these master points? Maybe
you've been treating something else, but then
456
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:25.960
as a secondary result, there was
a great improvement in another area. Oh
457
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.200
yes, that's a great question,
and I think all of us have And
458
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:31.799
you could go on and on and
on. I could talk about things like
459
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:36.240
that all day long. But the
bottom line is it just drives home for
460
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:43.680
me how one point can actually be
used for twenty five conditions, and we're
461
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.519
finding out more and more more conditions
that can be it can be each point
462
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:50.559
can be used by I don't think
we know it all yet, and I
463
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:53.680
think it's a real good take home
message is that to remember how connected we
464
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:59.680
all are and as far as the
universe and the holographic universe and our bodies
465
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:04.200
any each other, and to never, never underestimate the power of the human
466
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.400
beings. What do we want to
call that spirit? We call it minds
467
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:13.679
sometimes, but it's just the energy
of the body and how it doesn't stop
468
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:16.320
at the skin, and we know
our heart beats. It's a certain frequency
469
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.119
the healing cell. Is that a
frequency? What is it? Two amps?
470
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.119
A million amps, two point zero? A lot. The cells heal
471
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:30.400
at different they regenerate at different frequencies. We're all we're electrical machines. And
472
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:34.880
it for me, what it does
is just drives home the connectedness of the
473
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:38.239
entire universe for all of us,
and for all of us to always be
474
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.719
aware that everything we do, think, feel and say does matter, and
475
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:49.599
it matters to our patients. It
matters to us. And yes, every
476
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:54.440
single day something will patient will say, I know that you it's like an
477
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:59.119
adjustment. I know that you adjusted
my low back, but I didn't tell
478
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.199
you this, but I've been constipated
for a week. Could you do that
479
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:06.320
adjustment again? I've been having trouble
with constipation and that so, yes,
480
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:12.199
the same thing rings true for occupuncture. Every single day of our lives and
481
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.880
it's just been the most fun adjunct
therapy for me to add. I'm a
482
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:21.599
chiropractor first, but it's just been
one of the most fulfilling and fun therapies
483
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.519
to add. And I did it
all. I mean, I believe in
484
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:28.079
active therapy, always have. I
mean, we know by research you've got
485
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:30.360
to get that patient active. They've
got to start moving again. Sitting down
486
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.280
is not going to help them get
better. And even though they're sitting down
487
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.000
with the acupuncture, all in all, it's a great I just think it's
488
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.960
a great adjunct modality to add at
the end of the day, when they've
489
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.800
had their adjustment, they've done their
rehab, their spinal traction, whatever you've
490
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:47.159
got them on, and then have
them lie down there and put the needles
491
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.519
or do the electrical and then head
on out and the body just is supercharged.
492
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:54.400
So I love it. And yes, I think all of us could
493
00:35:54.440 --> 00:36:00.239
probably name a plethora of different moments
where they were all hagh and you went,
494
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:04.000
oh my gosh, it shouldn't surprise
me. But I still have AHA
495
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.440
moments to answer that question, Jessica, But that was a great question.
496
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.239
Well, and I think that's a
testament to being lifelong learners, that you're
497
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.280
always going to continue to have those
aha moments. And I've often told people,
498
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.559
when I meet someone that tells me
they've arrived and they have nothing left
499
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.119
to learn, that's someone I don't
really want to interact with much more,
500
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:27.599
because I feel like all of us
have so much to learn, and some
501
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.840
of the most incredible minds that I've
had the pleasure of interacting with through the
502
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:36.639
years are the ones that are still
seeking out knowledge and seeking out ways that
503
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:42.199
they can improve as practitioners and as
students of healthcare and what you guys do
504
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:46.039
to treat your patients. So just
one final question for you, because I
505
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:50.960
think this is important to kind of
to sum up with here today. I
506
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.320
know you had mentioned earlier they have
one hundred hour certifications and acupuncture. You're
507
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:59.960
a diplomat holder, and you had
mentioned a few things about the American Chiro
508
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:05.360
Practic Board of Acupuncture. Could you
give just kind of a brief little point
509
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:10.480
of advice or guidance for maybe a
student who's fixing to finish their chiropractic degree,
510
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:17.039
maybe a practicing doc that's looking to
learn more about incorporating acupuncture into practice.
511
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.480
Do you have any advice or guidance
based upon your experience on what are
512
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.679
some great first steps for them to
take or what is the importance of having
513
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:32.519
that diplomat when they've completed their acupuncture
certification and education. Oh, I'd love
514
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.920
to do that, Jessica. Thank
you for asking. With the American Board
515
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:42.360
of Chiropractic they have all the boards
that we have boards the internal medicine,
516
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.079
the radiology that we have, our
Council of Chiropractic Acupuncture, and then we
517
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:52.000
have our American Board of Chiropractic Acupuncture
who actually administers the board certification program or
518
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.519
exam it consists of. To go
to that, you could just go into
519
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:01.559
www. Dot Council of Chiropractic Acupuncture
for those of you that want to get
520
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:06.960
on there and look around and find
a chiropractic acupuncturist in your area or look
521
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:12.239
at the requirements. But it would
be an additional two hundred hours on top
522
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.559
of the one hundred hour certification that
would be required. And then a national
523
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:21.039
Board exam which we held once a
year. We're talking about doing two a
524
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.639
year now because of the demand,
but once a year we have a symposium
525
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:29.960
and an exam on Friday and then
symposium on Saturday Sunday. So the advantages
526
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.320
of that are we're actually we file
for a taxonomy code now where when you
527
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.920
send off for your MPI number and
you list all the specialties that you do
528
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:42.440
or can and then be paid on
that scale, we will have our own
529
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.559
code there. And I can also
tell you that there we have many of
530
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.599
our members and officers who have been
in Washington, d C. Now for
531
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:53.360
probably about a decade talking with the
powers that be in that we can be
532
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:59.159
reimbursed at the same level of an
MD acupuncturist or a licensed acupuncturist, or
533
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:05.559
a doctor of medicine or a PT
who has an acupuncture degree also, And
534
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.639
as in anything in government, sometimes
it can be arduous and long in a
535
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:14.239
fight. But if you want more
education and acupuncture, to me, it
536
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:19.000
just seems like it's just the natural
flow of things to go ahead and get
537
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.239
your diplomat, your board specialty degree
in it. But what it will do
538
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:27.480
eventually is insurance companies are going to
require more than that one hundred hours just
539
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:30.199
a heads up, and they've already
told us that they want only the diplomats.
540
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.840
They want a list of nationally certified
diplomats, and that's who they'll remburse
541
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.159
on their insurance plans. And so
we've gotten the word out and told them,
542
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.679
and it's not a threat, it's
just actually what they've told us.
543
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.199
So just in the future, and
I don't know what that means. If
544
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:47.679
that means five years, ten years, fifteen years down the pike, they'll
545
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:52.920
want that taxonomy code will be used
only by diplomats, and they'll require that
546
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.719
you send your license. We have
the national license and a number and all
547
00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:00.320
that good stuff. But it was
well worth my time. I I didn't
548
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.760
go through it like butter like a
lot of people do. I thought,
549
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:08.199
Okay, well I don't really need
that diplomat to really be reimbursed the same
550
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:12.320
in my mind. But what it
was, what you said before, It
551
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.559
was more knowledge I knew I didn't
have enough. I loved it. I
552
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.039
saw what just one hundred hours was
doing and I felt like, in my
553
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.159
heart, I need to know this
more. I need to know it more
554
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.199
inclusively and better, and I need
to study it. And then the next
555
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:28.840
thing, you know, I'm teaching
it. So it was something I never
556
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.280
would have thought and dreamed in a
million years i'd be doing, but it's
557
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:36.239
just it's kind of just all worked
out that way in synchronicity, and I
558
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.480
would just encourage anyone that's interested to
go to that website I gave you www.
559
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:45.239
Dot Council of Chiropractic Acupuncture dot com
and it will answer all those questions.
560
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.800
But again, if you need any
additional questions answered, I've got my
561
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:54.480
contact info and I'd be happy to
speak with you anytime about it. So
562
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:59.000
again, Doctor Corban, thank you
so much today. This has been a
563
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:10.760
pleasure, as it all is to
chat with you. That's it for today's
564
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.039
episode. Be sure to tune in
for our next episode where we kick off
565
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.199
a new training with doctor Mike Olsen
where you'll learn how to create a post
566
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.400
concussion grated return to play protocol for
your patients. You won't want to miss
567
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:28.119
it. Episode seventy seven drops in
two weeks before we wrap today's episode.
568
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.679
I have to say that, out
of all of the many guests we've had
569
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.920
on the podcast, doctor Kurbin has
been one of my absolute favorites. She
570
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.119
does such a great job of taking
complex concepts and making them easy to understand.
571
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.199
It was a pleasure to learn from
her and I hope you found value
572
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.079
in this training. Check out our
show notes for a link to the full
573
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.039
recorded webinar replay, along with a
link to our event calendar where you can
574
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.559
find an acupuncture or dry needling course
near you. We'll see you next time.
575
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.679
Hey guys, if you like what
you heard today, I encourage you
576
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:07.280
to visit our website Factor hyphenstore dot
com that's spelled fa k tr hyphenstore dot
577
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.840
com to find out more information about
all that we have to offer. We
578
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:15.079
have a variety of online offerings as
well as our hands on Factor Rehab System
579
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:17.599
course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure to also check out our
580
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:22.239
event calendar and bookmark any of these
upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the
581
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.239
near future so you can join us
live. And of course, the biggest
582
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.360
compliment we can receive is for you
to help us spread the word to your
583
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.280
friends, colleagues, and classmates.
You'll find all the important links as well
584
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:36.400
as info about our sponsors in the
show notes, so be sure to check
585
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:36.800
those out.