Heather
00:01:14
Welcome back my friends.
Heather
00:01:15
If this is your first time here, I am delighted you found Just Breathe.
Heather
00:01:20
We talk all things loving, raising and empowering LGBTQ people, but at the core it is a space for you to take a breath, quiet all of the noise around you and just be before we get into today's episode, I want to encourage you to sign up for my inaugural Parenting with Pride Book Club.
Heather
00:01:45
Starting next Tuesday, July 9th, we will meet on Zoom for one hour a week for four weeks to discuss each of the four pillars.
Heather
00:01:55
Embrace, educate and unlearn bias, Empower and love.
Heather
00:02:01
Bring your thoughts and questions or just sit quietly and know you're surrounded by affirming people.
Heather
00:02:08
The link to register is in the show notes.
Heather
00:02:11
You can also sign up via my website chrysalismama.com this may be the best $97 you spend all year.
Heather
00:02:21
Today's guest is someone I have worked with one on one, who has helped me with a ton of internal work and healing and who I now consider a dear friend.
Heather
00:02:33
Kelly Luback is passionate about changing the world for the better through individual, group and community level healing programs that inspire health, embodied leadership and heightened capacity for change.
Heather
00:02:48
Kelly helps women leaders stay grounded and centered in their change making so they can deliver and lead impactful work, enjoy meaningful relationships and deep connection with their purpose without sacrificing body, mind and spirit to their mission.
Heather
00:03:07
Kelly's work happens at the intersection of deep and soulful coaching, science of the nervous system, shamanic healing, yoga, mindfulness and 25 years of experience leading service based programs around the world.
Heather
00:03:25
Today's conversation is the first of several that Kelly and I will have and I am so happy she is here to share her wisdom with us.
Kelly
00:03:35
Welcome Kelly.
Kelly
00:03:36
I am so happy that you are here today and I'm really, really excited to have this conversation about the nervous system which I think when we first hear those words we're not really sure what that means to take care of our nervous system, to pay attention to what our nervous system is telling us.
Kelly
00:03:59
And you, through so much experience and study have become, I mean the most brilliant expert on this subject that I have ever encountered.
Kelly
00:04:11
So I have, you know, like I said earlier in the introduction, I have worked with Kelly one on one for almost a year and she is also a very dear friend of mine.
Kelly
00:04:22
So I am delighted, delighted for you all to learn a little bit from Kelly today.
Kelly
00:04:28
So thank you for being here, thank.
Kelly Luback
00:04:30
You so much for having me and I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and I really appreciate the shout out on being a brilliant expert.
Kelly Luback
00:04:38
And I come very humbly.
Kelly Luback
00:04:40
But yes, being a complete nervous system nerd and excited to just dive in deeper, Both through my own experience and experience, Working with clients and students and just exploring the study of it.
Kelly Luback
00:04:51
Cause it is so foundational to everything that we live and experience.
Kelly
00:04:56
It's amazing.
Kelly
00:04:57
So I wonder if you would take just like 60 seconds and give a quick overview of how you.
Kelly
00:05:05
Because we often when things are going on in our lives and we're struggling for whatever reason, we're like trying to figure it out, and we're like picking and just grasping at different things.
Kelly
00:05:16
And it took a lot of that for you, for you to finally realize, oh my gosh, this is my nervous system.
Kelly
00:05:21
Can you talk just a little bit about that?
Kelly Luback
00:05:24
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:05:25
One of my favorite ways to explain the work that we do around the nervous system is to understand that we have a system within our bodies.
Kelly Luback
00:05:35
Our brain, our spinal cord, the peripheral system, our autonomic nervous system, which is all the automatic functions.
Kelly Luback
00:05:43
Like our nervous system is responsible for everything.
Kelly Luback
00:05:46
Our, our breathing, our digestion, our heart rate, our hormonal production or lack of production, our like, all of the different basic functions that we don't have to think about.
Kelly Luback
00:05:59
Wound healing, healing hormones, anti aging hormones, all of these things are influenced by the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:06:06
The way that I really like to think about it though, is it's basically the.
Kelly Luback
00:06:12
The tracker of all of our lived experience.
Kelly Luback
00:06:15
So whatever it is that we've lived from early childhood into adulthood and an older age is recorded in this system.
Kelly Luback
00:06:25
And so we begin to very early on track patterns that speak to us of what is safe and what is not safe.
Kelly Luback
00:06:35
And so with these patterns that are learned through our lived experience, what we observe, what we walk through, what we live, how we relate, we learn the rules in the system for what is safe and not safe.
Kelly Luback
00:06:50
And that basically creates patterns within us that then determine the ways that we engage in the world or the ways that we disengage from the world.
Kelly Luback
00:06:59
And so it's so foundational.
Kelly Luback
00:07:01
And I'm happy to go into this more as we speak.
Kelly Luback
00:07:04
But for me, that's like really the most essential piece is our systems are out looking at how do we stay in survival and how do we advance the species within the human that we are by keeping us safe.
Kelly Luback
00:07:19
And we have the threat response and the threat detection up all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:07:25
And we can learn to work with that in really effective ways that can help us learn to be in the world and thrive in the world in ways that are different than we might have experienced through our own lived experience, if that makes sense.
Kelly
00:07:40
It does.
Kelly
00:07:41
It's a lot.
Kelly
00:07:43
I think one of the most fascinating things for me as I started this work with you and I.
Kelly
00:07:49
My guess is that this is true for so many people is that at some point, all of the messaging that we've just been collecting our whole lives and our nervous system at.
Kelly
00:08:02
At a certain point, we start to not pay attention anymore to the messaging, to the information that our nervous system is giving us for various reasons.
Kelly
00:08:13
It's too overwhelming, it's too painful, it's too.
Kelly
00:08:16
We don't understand it and we disengage, we disconnect from that.
Kelly
00:08:21
And I know that I came to you at a point where I was like, I have no idea.
Kelly
00:08:26
Like, I could say, I think my nervous system is fried.
Kelly
00:08:30
I feel this way, but I couldn't tell you why and what was going on and where and where that came from.
Kelly
00:08:40
And so I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit first, validate that for everybody.
Kelly
00:08:47
Because that is such, I think, a very common experience for so many of us.
Kelly
00:08:51
So when you're saying like, these things are automatic, these things are.
Kelly
00:08:55
This over here on an intellectual level, we understand that.
Kelly Luback
00:09:00
Yeah.
Kelly
00:09:00
But if we just.
Kelly
00:09:01
Are you ask us right now to sit here and feel that.
Kelly
00:09:04
I would think that a lot of people are like, I can't.
Kelly Luback
00:09:08
Yes, yes, totally.
Kelly Luback
00:09:10
Okay.
Kelly Luback
00:09:11
There's so many pieces in here to unpack.
Kelly
00:09:14
12 questions there for you.
Kelly Luback
00:09:16
That's so great.
Kelly Luback
00:09:17
And I think, and what I do want to acknowledge too, is that I.
Kelly Luback
00:09:21
I feel like in the world now, especially post Covid, and this surge during COVID is just this, this sort of more popularized knowing of the nervous system or speaking about the nervous system and really normalizing anxiety, mood disorders, you know, depression, the ups and downs, feeling, the fight or flight is one that people use all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:09:47
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:09:47
I feel like the references to the nervous system became much more widely understood.
Kelly Luback
00:09:54
And so there's a lot more that's being spoken about it in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:09:58
And with that, I think there's a lot of disinformation as.
Kelly Luback
00:10:01
Or misinformation and confusion around it.
Kelly Luback
00:10:05
And so what.
Kelly Luback
00:10:07
What I think is really important to understand is we can have feelings of heightened sensation, which might feel like anxiety or nervousness or, you know, if I'm going to go give a talk or you're going to go speak on your amazing new.
Kelly Luback
00:10:24
You know, you go out there, you're going to engage a part of the nervous system which is very activating.
Kelly Luback
00:10:29
So you are on.
Kelly Luback
00:10:31
And that is normal for your nervous system to be activated and on.
Kelly Luback
00:10:36
And it can get a little extra activated and that can look like anxiety.
Kelly Luback
00:10:42
And then we can have the de escalating part of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:10:46
We call it the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the slowing things down.
Kelly Luback
00:10:53
And it's the rest and digest part.
Kelly Luback
00:10:55
It's the part that allows you to get to sleep at night or to digest your food well, or to slow down and be able to snuggle up with your kid and connect with them or have a deep and meaningful conversation with someone you care about.
Kelly Luback
00:11:10
That's also the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:11:14
And then there are times when, with the patterns that have been established.
Kelly Luback
00:11:18
So let's just say for example, that, you know, you grew up in a household where things were high intensity or high pressure and there was always like you had to be on, you had to perform, you had to say yes and you had to do good.
Kelly Luback
00:11:31
And all the things so many of us have lived this experience.
Kelly Luback
00:11:34
And so if that's the case, you might tend towards a more activated nervous system that leans more towards what looks like what we know as anxiety.
Kelly Luback
00:11:47
And so it's like this always being on, always being maybe a little on the verge of agitation or always needing to go, go, go and do, do, do.
Kelly Luback
00:11:56
So that's, that's nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:11:59
And then sometimes what happens is when people have been going and sort of stuck in a pattern for so long that it's like the switch gets stuck so the on switch is on and you can't turn it off.
Kelly Luback
00:12:15
So if you're in a more activated state, that could look like, oh, I can't wind down, I can't get to sleep, or something's going on with my kid and I'm really worried and I can't turn off the mind.
Kelly Luback
00:12:26
It just feels like those wheels are turning all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:12:30
And, and that is, that's because this pattern has just gotten in, in a, in a stuck way.
Kelly Luback
00:12:37
And what.
Kelly Luback
00:12:38
And then let's just take the flip of that, which is we also have the slowing down nervous system, which can be, you know, the.
Kelly Luback
00:12:46
I'm holding my newborn baby and we're so connected and it's beautiful.
Kelly Luback
00:12:50
Or I've, you know, hugging my partner or my teen and we're feeling really connected.
Kelly Luback
00:12:55
That's, that's like the slowing down nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:12:58
The other part of that, like further along the continuum is the freeze part where we get frozen or we get stuck in a place of slowed Down, So it might look like I can't get off the couch.
Kelly Luback
00:13:12
My, my brain isn't just processing thoughts well, or I really need to, I need to get my book out in the world, or I need to help my kid do X, Y and Z thing.
Kelly Luback
00:13:24
But I'm actually just stuck.
Kelly Luback
00:13:25
Like I'm frozen.
Kelly Luback
00:13:26
I can't, I can't move forward.
Kelly Luback
00:13:29
And in many cases that can look like, you know, sitting on the couch, chilling out with Netflix and a bowl of ice cream or chips.
Kelly Luback
00:13:37
And it's, it's more of the kind of numbing behavior and it's very decelerated.
Kelly Luback
00:13:43
Either one of those.
Kelly Luback
00:13:44
To be stuck in them is problematic because one, we're not meant to be stuck in them.
Kelly Luback
00:13:51
And we have a biology that's built to be able to move between the more activated and the more slowed down parts of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:14:02
So I want, I want to share an analogy that I find to be really helpful, but I just want to ask, does that make sense or do you have questions or do you want to offer any clarification?
Kelly Luback
00:14:12
I'm trying to.
Kelly
00:14:13
No, I think that makes a ton of sense and I think is a really, really great overview.
Kelly
00:14:22
And I do want to hear your analogy.
Kelly
00:14:25
And then I have one question that, or a couple questions after that because I'd like to touch on the freeze and also just kind of specific examples of, you know, where people might be and what that might look like.
Kelly
00:14:43
So it like relates back so we.
Kelly Luback
00:14:45
Can connect these totally to connect the dots to real life experience, which is the most important reason to learn this.
Kelly Luback
00:14:53
Okay, so what I.
Kelly Luback
00:14:55
One analogy I'd love to offer is the river analogy.
Kelly Luback
00:14:59
And so if we think of a flowing river as our nervous system and our body and our resilience, and then if we think of rocks in the river, the, you know, the rocks that might jut up in a river or where you have rapids, those are like the traumas, those are triggers.
Kelly Luback
00:15:20
They are stressors.
Kelly Luback
00:15:21
They're the.
Kelly Luback
00:15:22
All the weights that we're carrying, they change the flow of the river, right?
Kelly Luback
00:15:27
So the more rocks we have, the rougher the river is going to be.
Kelly Luback
00:15:32
It's just going to flow more rapidly and it's going to be a rougher ride.
Kelly Luback
00:15:37
The fewer rocks we have, the easier the water can flow.
Kelly Luback
00:15:42
And so what, what we're aiming for is flow.
Kelly Luback
00:15:47
What we want is to be able to move between.
Kelly Luback
00:15:50
And I, I touched on just some really basic parts of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:15:53
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:15:53
Like, we can nerd out on this for hours, but for the Basics, we want to move between the more accelerated state and the more sort of modified decelerated state.
Kelly Luback
00:16:03
And then, you know, being able to, like, really close down for the day and, you know, sleep, digest, do the healing repair that happens during sleep time.
Kelly Luback
00:16:14
And then there's freeze, which is.
Kelly Luback
00:16:16
Has its own function as well.
Kelly Luback
00:16:17
But we want to be able to move easefully between these states.
Kelly Luback
00:16:21
So when I think of the river analogy, it's like we want flow, and that flow is showing us we can move between those states.
Kelly Luback
00:16:27
So there's two ways that we can create more flow.
Kelly Luback
00:16:30
We can expand the river so we can, like, you know, dig deeper and dig out to the edges so there's more flow in the.
Kelly Luback
00:16:37
In the water, or dig deeper in the water and, you know, pull up the ground there.
Kelly Luback
00:16:42
Or we can take out the rocks.
Kelly Luback
00:16:44
So there's different ways to approach this.
Kelly Luback
00:16:46
So taking out the rocks looks like reducing stressors, doing deeper healing on some of the old, you know, trauma pieces.
Kelly Luback
00:16:54
And it doesn't have to be what I think of as big T trauma.
Kelly Luback
00:16:57
These can be little T traumas that result in freeze, which we're going to talk about in a moment.
Kelly Luback
00:17:02
And.
Kelly Luback
00:17:04
And.
Kelly Luback
00:17:05
And just these old patterns.
Kelly Luback
00:17:06
So clearing of these old ways, but the widening and deepening of the river is creating more spaciousness by doing things that grow our resilience.
Kelly Luback
00:17:16
So those are different tools and ways that we can work with our bodies and our nervous systems to create more flow by building more resilience to whatever the rocks are, right, Whatever rocks show up and impact the flow of the river.
Kelly Luback
00:17:35
Does that make sense?
Kelly
00:17:36
It does.
Kelly
00:17:37
I love that.
Kelly
00:17:38
What might a couple examples of tools be?
Kelly Luback
00:17:43
Okay, so there's so many beautiful tools for working with the nervous system, and one of them is my favorite.
Kelly Luback
00:17:52
Now, we're not on video, but I'm going to describe this, and it's one that I love to give to people.
Kelly Luback
00:17:56
It's the.
Kelly Luback
00:17:57
It's the most effective, easiest, simplest thing that we can do.
Kelly Luback
00:18:02
So let's just say, like, you're feeling really stressed out, and we've all had this experience.
Kelly Luback
00:18:07
I know we've talked through this one before.
Kelly
00:18:09
This is one of my favorites, y'all.
Kelly
00:18:10
I love this so much.
Kelly
00:18:11
So listen carefully.
Kelly
00:18:12
It works.
Kelly Luback
00:18:14
So you're gonna take your right hand, put it to your left shoulder, left hand to your right shoulder.
Kelly Luback
00:18:20
So you're just crisscrossing.
Kelly Luback
00:18:22
And then you are stroking from your shoulders down to your elbows.
Kelly Luback
00:18:25
We're doing this with you.
Kelly Luback
00:18:26
So just go ahead, reach your arms across, crossing over your arms Opposite hand to the shoulder, opposite shoulder.
Kelly Luback
00:18:35
And then you're just stroking down shoulder to elbow, gentle stroking.
Kelly Luback
00:18:40
We're going to keep doing this while I talk and explain what's happening here.
Kelly Luback
00:18:45
Now this is an evidence based tool which is scientifically proven to engage your parasympathetic nervous system that slowing down, rest and digest nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:18:58
Keep stroking down your arms.
Kelly Luback
00:19:00
Please stay with us.
Kelly Luback
00:19:02
So I want you to keep doing this and just notice what starts to happen in your body.
Kelly Luback
00:19:06
So this is, this is one tool that literally you could do this for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, it will change your state.
Kelly Luback
00:19:14
It's a really beautiful one to do with kids as well.
Kelly Luback
00:19:17
It's such.
Kelly Luback
00:19:18
It's like giving yourself this warm hug.
Kelly Luback
00:19:20
We're doing lots of good things with the brain and the body here.
Kelly Luback
00:19:26
But what's most important to know is it helps to bring on calm.
Kelly Luback
00:19:30
It just helps to raise the capacity of your parasympathetic nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:19:37
So keep on doing that as long as you like.
Kelly Luback
00:19:39
But what I really want, what's really important here, is for you to notice what changes as you do it.
Kelly Luback
00:19:45
So this is one.
Kelly Luback
00:19:46
I give this tool all the time on the street, with clients, with family, with myself, with my kiddo.
Kelly Luback
00:19:52
It's such a good and beautiful soothing tool.
Kelly Luback
00:19:55
And of course for your audience, Heather, when there's like big stressors or things going down in the family, or you're worrying about your kid or just confused about what's happening with your kid, this can be such a great one.
Kelly Luback
00:20:07
It's so simple.
Kelly Luback
00:20:08
It costs Nothing.
Kelly Luback
00:20:09
It takes 30 seconds and it can completely shift how you feel.
Kelly Luback
00:20:13
And if you want to offer it to your kid as well, can totally shift how they feel.
Kelly
00:20:19
Yes.
Kelly Luback
00:20:20
All right, so how do you feel with that one?
Kelly
00:20:23
You know, this is one of my favorites.
Kelly
00:20:25
I mean, I wish I would have had this tool seven years ago.
Kelly
00:20:29
I mean, I wish I would have had this tool 50 years ago.
Kelly
00:20:31
But I, it is, it works so well and so fast.
Kelly Luback
00:20:38
Yes.
Kelly
00:20:39
I mean, the first time you told me that, I was like, oh, come on.
Kelly Luback
00:20:42
I know it sounds so cheesy and silly, right?
Kelly
00:20:44
And then I did it.
Kelly
00:20:45
I was like, oh my gosh.
Kelly
00:20:49
Yes.
Kelly
00:20:49
I mean, you could do it while sitting at a stoplight.
Kelly
00:20:52
You can do it, you know, excuse yourself for 60 seconds.
Kelly
00:20:57
If you're in the middle of something and you just need a minute, need a minute.
Kelly
00:21:01
I mean, this plays into the whole, take a breath, right?
Kelly
00:21:05
Take a pause, take those things and do this.
Kelly
00:21:10
And you are in a completely different state.
Kelly
00:21:15
And not only does it calm your physical body?
Kelly
00:21:20
But also, of course, here's.
Kelly
00:21:22
I mean, this, I think, is probably for our next conversation that we have, but the fact that our brain is attached to our body, and I know that sounds like such a silly statement, but just so many of us disconnect those things.
Kelly Luback
00:21:41
So we Heads.
Kelly
00:21:43
Because it's easier to intellectualize everything and not feel it.
Kelly Luback
00:21:48
Yes.
Kelly
00:21:49
Too hard to feel it.
Kelly
00:21:51
And this helps reconnect.
Kelly
00:21:53
I think for me, this was one of the biggest tools of, like, reconnecting and starting to feel that, like, not only was my body calm, my brain was calm, and I could, like, think and I could make a decision or.
Kelly
00:22:10
Or have a conversation with clarity.
Kelly
00:22:13
And I mean, truly, truly such a game changer.
Kelly Luback
00:22:19
It is such a game changer.
Kelly Luback
00:22:20
And I think what you just said about us living disconnected from our bodies is really essential, Heather, because it is like we have.
Kelly Luback
00:22:28
We have been taught to disconnect from our bodies and to access wisdom only from the neck up.
Kelly Luback
00:22:34
But the truth is we have this whole.
Kelly Luback
00:22:38
They speak of bodies of wisdom.
Kelly Luback
00:22:39
Like, we have a body of wisdom that we can connect to, that can support us.
Kelly Luback
00:22:44
There's.
Kelly Luback
00:22:45
I mean, this is a whole other conversation, but we, you know, we have these bodies that we can check into for information, to access our intuition, to access, access, you know, next best steps to help us make decisions that are.
Kelly Luback
00:23:00
That are more in, you know, in service to us or our families or kiddos.
Kelly Luback
00:23:05
And.
Kelly Luback
00:23:06
And we have been taught to disengage the body.
Kelly Luback
00:23:10
So much of what I teach, I mean, the reason I'm in love with teaching the nervous system, which is not the only piece I teach, but it's a huge foundational piece, is that when we learn to get in connection with our bodies and our nervous systems, everything can change.
Kelly Luback
00:24:19
And when I say everything, I mean your love, relationships, your relationship with your kids, the way that you express in the world, the way you use your voice for change for good, you know, if you have a mission to write a book, you've just.
Kelly Luback
00:24:36
I'm just bringing up your book again, shamelessly promoting you.
Kelly Luback
00:24:41
You have.
Kelly Luback
00:24:42
You have a mission to put out in the world, then to be able to bring your voice to that in a way that really supports change is essential.
Kelly Luback
00:24:51
Or to.
Kelly Luback
00:24:52
Even if it's just, you know, standing up for your kid and working with a medical system or with the school system or, you know, navigating relationships, there's so many different ways that we express and engage in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:25:08
And when we are connected with our bodies and nervous systems, we can do that in a whole different level.
Kelly Luback
00:25:15
It's really, really powerful.
Kelly Luback
00:25:17
It is, it's.
Kelly
00:25:19
It is really extraordinary.
Kelly Luback
00:25:21
I know you said that you want to talk some examples.
Kelly
00:25:24
Yes, I was just going to say, you know, thinking about everybody who's listening, and a lot of, A lot of people are somewhere on the journey of their kiddo coming out, and that can bring up lots of nervous system dysregulation and feelings and disconnection and all of these things, even for those who are completely affirming, it can still bring up feelings of uncertainty and fear.
Kelly
00:25:59
And so I'm wondering if.
Kelly
00:26:02
And so I think a lot of that points to freeze, which is what I kind of brought up before, because that's an easy.
Kelly
00:26:10
For multiple reason that.
Kelly
00:26:11
That's an easy place to get to.
Kelly
00:26:13
So I'm wondering if you could talk about that a little bit just in relation to, you know, kind of specifically where our listeners are.
Kelly Luback
00:26:22
Absolutely.
Kelly Luback
00:26:23
So, so I, I know we love the freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:26:26
The freeze work, and I think we should go deeper in another.
Kelly Luback
00:26:30
Another moment on it, but I do want to speak to how it might show up for your listeners, for all of us as parents, but especially for those who are navigating, you know, new terrain with their kiddos.
Kelly Luback
00:26:46
I think, you know, one piece that comes up just to, you know, speak to the really hard part is how do we keep our kids safe?
Kelly Luback
00:26:53
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:26:54
I think that's a huge piece for parents is how do we keep our kids safe in a, in a world that's so biased and so, so harshly oriented towards our kids who are in the LGBTQ world?
Kelly Luback
00:27:10
And so that can be really activating.
Kelly Luback
00:27:12
And actually, I want to speak to both frees, but also the other end of it, because it can lead us into freeze, where we're just, you know, shut down or feeling really low about it, or we can't take action or, you know, we're holding, even holding our kid back because we're worried for them.
Kelly Luback
00:27:30
And it can look really activating on the other end of the spectrum as well, right?
Kelly Luback
00:27:35
Where just the anxiety and, like, can't turn the mind off and so worried about my kid and, and, and how am I going to keep them safe?
Kelly Luback
00:27:43
And all the things that, you know, we may have had raising my hand here may have had very early on in their, in their lives and, and then it just gets activated again, you know, as they, as they come out and we want to, we want to keep them safe again, but it's like a whole, in a whole different way.
Kelly Luback
00:28:03
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:28:04
So I think you know, that's one way that this can come out.
Kelly Luback
00:28:07
I think sometimes what can happen, too, is.
Kelly Luback
00:28:10
And this, you know, even for people who consider themselves allies or feel really woke or, you know, maybe are LGBTQ themselves or have, you know, been in that world, it can.
Kelly Luback
00:28:26
It can still bring up things.
Kelly Luback
00:28:29
I.
Kelly Luback
00:28:30
I have a dear, dear friend with kids who have come out recently, and she was just saying, like, my politics are one thing, but then when it's in my kids, it's like it's another.
Kelly Luback
00:28:43
And it's.
Kelly Luback
00:28:43
And.
Kelly Luback
00:28:44
And she's struggling.
Kelly Luback
00:28:45
She's like, I just want to keep them safe.
Kelly Luback
00:28:48
And.
Kelly Luback
00:28:49
And sometimes what that can look like is actually not so much the flight or anxiety or the freeze, but actually the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:28:56
And so it can also look like going, you know, going into battle with your kid.
Kelly Luback
00:29:02
Okay.
Kelly Luback
00:29:02
And let's also say the teen years are their own special.
Kelly Luback
00:29:06
Their own special.
Kelly
00:29:09
They are not for the faint of heart.
Kelly Luback
00:29:10
No, they are not.
Kelly Luback
00:29:11
And we are, like, called to resilience.
Kelly Luback
00:29:13
This is, like, where you really want to work on widening and deepening your river.
Kelly Luback
00:29:20
And.
Kelly Luback
00:29:21
And with that, sometimes even in our desire to be protective or to be supportive, it can look like, you know, we engage in the fight whether the fight is coming to us or we're bringing the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:29:33
And so it can look like, you know, really sparked emotion or getting angry or.
Kelly Luback
00:29:39
Or even kind of.
Kelly Luback
00:29:42
Let's.
Kelly Luback
00:29:42
I'm trying to think, like, you know, exploding on.
Kelly Luback
00:29:44
On things that seem like nothing things, but what's actually happening is you're feeling upset and scared, so you're picking a fight around something that is actually insignificant, but it's the safe place to pick a fight, right?
Kelly Luback
00:29:56
And it might look like it's with your kids, it might look like it's with your partner.
Kelly Luback
00:29:59
Might look like, you know, with your mother.
Kelly Luback
00:30:02
So there's all sorts of ways that this can show up.
Kelly Luback
00:30:06
And.
Kelly Luback
00:30:06
And then there's the part, I think, too.
Kelly Luback
00:30:08
I mean, there's so many layers for this community, right?
Kelly Luback
00:30:13
It's like navigating your own family relationships where you're wanting to keep your kids safe and emotion, including emotionally, like, emotionally safe, physically safe, all the things.
Kelly Luback
00:30:27
But if your family isn't exactly a family of allies yet, I'm always holding out hope for change.
Kelly Luback
00:30:36
If it feels like a place where you have to defend and your kid isn't emotionally safe, that can look also like fight, flight, or freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:30:47
And so it might look like picking fights with the family or finding ways to not be with them because it sucks to be around them.
Kelly Luback
00:30:54
When you feel like you, your kid isn't safe or, or just, you know, shutting down or having health things show up that are, you know, apparently random health things that are, you know, showing your body.
Kelly Luback
00:31:08
This is a whole other.
Kelly Luback
00:31:09
We need, we need another interview for this one.
Kelly Luback
00:31:12
Like how our bodies give us the signals to say no when we're having a hard time saying no.
Kelly Luback
00:31:17
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:31:17
So I don't mean to go off there, but those are some of the examples.
Kelly Luback
00:31:20
Are there others that you can think of either from your own experience or just from, you know, engaging with your.
Kelly
00:31:28
I think those are, those are really, really good.
Kelly
00:31:30
And, and I think too late and you made the point very, very well that freeze can show up anywhere.
Kelly
00:31:36
So it's not just in a heightened state of anxiety, really activated.
Kelly
00:31:43
It can show up anywhere on, along the line of your, you know, the spectrum of your nervous system and how it works.
Kelly
00:31:51
And so I think that's a really great thing for people just to know, to understand that.
Kelly
00:31:57
And the way it shows up is different for everyone.
Kelly
00:32:00
Everyone has their own special flavor of freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:32:03
Well, let me just clarify on that because the freeze is actually a piece of it.
Kelly Luback
00:32:08
It is the parasympathetic nervous system, but the shutdown part of it.
Kelly Luback
00:32:12
So it may be that some people go into freeze, but what I was wanting to communicate was that that's a real common place to go to and there's lots of freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:32:23
And I think we need a whole other se.
Kelly
00:32:25
I think so, yes.
Kelly Luback
00:32:27
But there's, there's also the more activated place which is the fight or the flight as well.
Kelly Luback
00:32:32
So it just can look different ways.
Kelly Luback
00:32:34
But all of these are different ways that our nervous systems get activated or in some.
Kelly Luback
00:32:39
I'm not a fan of the word trigger, but that they get triggered as well.
Kelly Luback
00:32:44
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:32:45
So those are.
Kelly Luback
00:33:40
So just to clarify.
Kelly
00:33:41
Thank you for clarifying that.
Kelly
00:33:42
Yes, I think that's fair and it's interesting to see.
Kelly
00:33:44
I will just share.
Kelly
00:33:45
It's an example of something that happened very recently because I was watching it, it wasn't happening to me, but we had a graduation party for my daughter and we had lots of people here and a lot of family were here and there.
Kelly
00:34:04
You know, as everyone listening knows that I have a number of non affirming family members.
Kelly
00:34:09
And so this was kind of the first time in, in a while that we were all together and it was a little bit of an experiment.
Kelly
00:34:18
And so it was interesting to watch how each of us handled it and approached different conversations and just the general, their presence in our house and all six of us were here, and all six of us approached it differently.
Kelly
00:34:38
And Connor approached it with fight.
Kelly
00:34:41
And it was so interesting.
Kelly
00:34:45
And at the same time, like, you know, I was actually super proud of him because he.
Kelly
00:34:50
He stayed in his lane, he stood up for himself, and he said things that maybe he wouldn't have said in a other, you know, another situation.
Kelly
00:35:00
But I know in his brain that this was very activating for him.
Kelly
00:35:06
And so this is how he was handling it, was taking on a person and really, like, standing his ground for who he was.
Kelly
00:35:16
And I thought I kind of watched the whole thing happen.
Kelly
00:35:18
I was like, that was actually a really effective use of fighting.
Kelly
00:35:25
And then was able to kind of, you know, the next day we did a whole debrief on everybody's different ways.
Kelly Luback
00:35:31
That they handled a family debrief, that.
Kelly
00:35:34
They were activated and how they felt it, you know, But I think talking about, like, where you.
Kelly
00:35:40
Where did you feel it in your body?
Kelly
00:35:42
Like, how did this affect you?
Kelly
00:35:44
Or how did this affect you?
Kelly
00:35:46
And even if it, you know, wasn't a perfect way of handling something, it was acknowledging it and talking about it and talking about, like, gosh, I'd really like to feel this way when this person is around.
Kelly
00:36:02
And, gosh, it was such a powerful conversation.
Kelly Luback
00:36:05
That is amazing.
Kelly Luback
00:36:06
Heather, can.
Kelly Luback
00:36:07
Okay, I just want to pull out a few different things, and hopefully I'm going to remember them all.
Kelly Luback
00:36:10
So one, I just want to say fight is a healthy response.
Kelly Luback
00:36:16
We, again, the flow of the nervous system, like the river flowing.
Kelly Luback
00:36:24
A healthy nervous system is able to move between these different places, right?
Kelly Luback
00:36:29
We have built into our animal bodies our capacity to fight, our capacity to flee in, our capacity to freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:36:38
And we, again, I don't mean to keep, like, putting it off for another conversation.
Kelly Luback
00:36:42
I just don't want to go down rabbit holes.
Kelly Luback
00:36:44
But.
Kelly Luback
00:36:45
But having each of these different things show up in our nervous system is actually really important.
Kelly Luback
00:36:51
And the fact that Connor has fight in him, and especially after the experience, he has walked.
Kelly Luback
00:36:55
His initial story, as you tell it in the book, is one of flight.
Kelly Luback
00:36:59
He.
Kelly Luback
00:36:59
He runs away, literally.
Kelly Luback
00:37:01
He flees in terror, right?
Kelly Luback
00:37:04
And so now he has this, like, vibrant fight response.
Kelly Luback
00:37:09
What an amazing thing.
Kelly Luback
00:37:10
Now, that doesn't mean go out and beat the shit out of somebody, right?
Kelly Luback
00:37:16
But having a healthy response where you're like, hold the phone.
Kelly Luback
00:37:20
We're going to talk through this.
Kelly Luback
00:37:21
Not right.
Kelly Luback
00:37:22
Like, that's actually really powerful.
Kelly
00:37:25
And this was verbal.
Kelly
00:37:26
I mean, this was not a physical fight.
Kelly
00:37:28
Like, I just want to make that clear.
Kelly
00:37:29
For me, this Was like he was having a well articulated verbal discussion, highly animated discussion with somebody that he did not freeze, he did not flee from.
Kelly
00:37:41
He stood his ground.
Kelly
00:37:42
And I was like, yes, totally.
Kelly
00:37:45
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:37:45
And just, just to be clear, I heard that.
Kelly Luback
00:37:47
I just want to make sure it doesn't sound like I'm saying, you know, go beat somebody up.
Kelly
00:37:51
No, I want to make sure everybody was on the same page there.
Kelly Luback
00:37:55
Being able to have like being in his own center and having the capacity to make a, you know, well founded argument and back, like that's really powerful.
Kelly Luback
00:38:05
And then what I also want to say is each of you having your own experience.
Kelly Luback
00:38:10
Like, what a beautiful thing for you to observe.
Kelly Luback
00:38:12
And again, I want to normalize.
Kelly Luback
00:38:14
We all have different ways that we respond and we all also have different ways that we kind of default.
Kelly Luback
00:38:20
Some of us are more afraid, some of us are more fleece, some of us are more freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:38:24
And as we heal and work with the nervous system, we expand our capacity to engage all of those.
Kelly Luback
00:38:30
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:38:31
So I just, I love that you were able to take a step back and really observe, which to me speaks so much to how much you have grown your capacity.
Kelly Luback
00:38:41
Like how wide and deep your river is.
Kelly Luback
00:38:43
Heather.
Kelly Luback
00:38:44
Because if you imagine how many years ago was like seven years, eight years ago.
Kelly Luback
00:38:52
So when he came out, if you imagine like state of your nervous system then and state of your nervous system now, like you were so deep in it and having your own experience and like very much a survival, survival mode, which is again really important.
Kelly Luback
00:39:08
But it's much harder to see.
Kelly Luback
00:39:11
Yes.
Kelly Luback
00:39:11
When you are in a state where you have a healthy and resilient nervous system, you can see the patterns differently.
Kelly Luback
00:39:18
And so you're noticing in your family, oh wow, we all have these different patterns.
Kelly Luback
00:39:22
So I just want to acknowledge that really speaks to a wide and deep river and how much you have grown that which is amazing.
Kelly Luback
00:39:30
And then I think the other here is just to say with all of this, it's really important to normalize these relationships.
Kelly Luback
00:39:39
It's so easy to pathologize people for the experience that they're having.
Kelly Luback
00:39:45
This is one of my favorite things that I teach everything from like deep, you know, de pathologizing.
Kelly Luback
00:39:52
Is that the right word?
Kelly
00:39:53
Sure, I think, I think we're going to make that a word.
Kelly Luback
00:39:56
Yes, I like it for destigmatizing and I like de pathologizing.
Kelly Luback
00:40:01
Like the pathology of anxiety, of low mood, of panic, of.
Kelly Luback
00:40:07
Of the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:40:08
Like when we actually break it down to the biology, there's.
Kelly Luback
00:40:14
It's not.
Kelly Luback
00:40:16
It's not pathological.
Kelly Luback
00:40:18
It's actually just a.
Kelly Luback
00:40:19
It's a learned pattern, a learned response that has happened that can be healed.
Kelly Luback
00:40:24
And so this isn't something to stigmatize.
Kelly Luback
00:40:28
It's actually something to kind of.
Kelly Luback
00:40:31
I always think of it as, you know, if you're with your screaming toddler and you, like, try to shake them or scare them or shove them in a room, like, it actually doesn't.
Kelly Luback
00:40:39
Like, it doesn't work.
Kelly Luback
00:40:40
They don't learn the things they need to learn.
Kelly Luback
00:40:43
If you scoop them up and you say, hey, baby, this is really hard, I see you're really upset, and you have a right to be upset, and this is the way it's gonna go.
Kelly Luback
00:40:53
Like, they'll learn, right?
Kelly Luback
00:40:55
And.
Kelly Luback
00:40:55
But none of us can be.
Kelly Luback
00:40:56
You know, I say the toddler example, but all of us have this.
Kelly Luback
00:40:59
All of us have, like, the unheard toddler in us where, you know, I know as an adult, there have been plenty of times where I'm like, I'm having a denture, like, inner tantrum, and I just want someone to hear me.
Kelly Luback
00:41:09
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:10
Don't we all have those?
Kelly
00:41:11
Oh, my gosh, yes.
Kelly Luback
00:41:14
So in that it's like the most potent thing is to actually have someone hear you and witness you.
Kelly Luback
00:41:23
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:23
I mean, I think it's part of the success of your podcast.
Kelly Luback
00:41:27
It's like people feel seen and feel heard.
Kelly Luback
00:41:29
Like, all of us need.
Kelly Luback
00:41:30
That is a very.
Kelly Luback
00:41:32
Actually nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:41:33
It is the love and connection part of our nervous system that needs that, because being feeling seen and heard and accepted is part of.
Kelly Luback
00:41:42
I just.
Kelly Luback
00:41:43
I just got another one we're supposed to do.
Kelly Luback
00:41:45
But, like, feeling seen and heard and accepted, like, that is the work of our nervous system that developed with us living in.
Kelly Luback
00:41:55
In community and collective in tribes.
Kelly
00:41:58
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:59
And to be cast out of the tribe is a very, very dysregulating thing.
Kelly Luback
00:42:04
And so if we just bring that full circle back to who our people are that we're talking to here, like, we need more than ever to make sure that our kids feel seen and heard and accepted, and that includes the parents feeling seen and heard and accepted.
Kelly Luback
00:42:24
And that, again, back to the nervous system is actually part of what allows us to walk in the world in a healthy and whole and complete filling way.
Kelly Luback
00:42:36
Yes.
Kelly
00:42:37
And I think just to kind of to wrap this up today, because there are so many different directions we can go.
Kelly
00:42:44
And I think we have, like, four more episodes.
Kelly
00:42:46
But just that acknowledging and naming that you are not broken, this is not something that's, you know, you need to fix There, it's just.
Kelly
00:43:01
It's something that can be healed.
Kelly
00:43:03
It is something that each one of us have our own version of nervous system work and healing that we can do.
Kelly
00:43:13
And so I think there's so much.
Kelly
00:43:15
It's so empowering to know.
Kelly
00:43:17
Oh, gosh, this is something I can actually do, something I can actually actively do something about this so I can feel better and I can be a better me.
Kelly
00:43:30
Which then allows you to be a better you out in the world, right?
Kelly Luback
00:43:35
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:43:35
Better parent, better activity, all the things.
Kelly
00:43:40
So, yes.
Kelly
00:43:43
Thank you.
Kelly
00:43:44
Oh, my goodness.
Kelly
00:43:45
So good.
Kelly
00:43:45
So y'all got a taste of the nervous system today.
Kelly
00:43:50
Kelly will be back.
Kelly
00:43:51
We will be having several more conversations over the next few months, so I can't wait for you to hear more.
Kelly
00:44:00
This is where we're going to end for today.
Kelly
00:44:01
Is there anything that you would like to share such as where people can find you if they would like to get in touch with you directly?
Kelly Luback
00:44:11
Sure.
Kelly Luback
00:44:12
So two things.
Kelly Luback
00:44:13
One, I just want to share my favorite expression that I put in all of my love notes and newsletters and what have you, and that is that the world needs you.
Kelly Luback
00:44:23
Well, and that term came to me years ago and I realized as I was writing it, every single newsletter, that it just was the truth of it was just becoming more and more true in my body.
Kelly Luback
00:44:37
And what's held in those words of the world needs you.
Kelly Luback
00:44:40
Well, is the better that the more regulated, the healthier our nervous systems, the more capacity we have.
Kelly Luback
00:44:48
The wider and deeper our rivers are, the better we can show up for our loved ones, for our kids, our partners, our colleagues, our clients, our.
Kelly Luback
00:44:57
Our patients.
Kelly Luback
00:44:58
If you're a healthcare person, our.
Kelly Luback
00:45:00
Our community members and the world, the stronger, the better we are.
Kelly Luback
00:45:05
And the more resilient we are, the better we can show up in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:45:08
And the world right now really needs us.
Kelly Luback
00:45:11
Well, and so I.
Kelly Luback
00:45:13
That's the one piece I want to leave with.
Kelly Luback
00:45:15
And then you can find me@kellylubeck.com and that's K E L L Y L U B E C K dot com.
Kelly Luback
00:45:23
I sure thought.
Kelly Luback
00:45:24
I'm sure that'll be in the show notes and.
Kelly Luback
00:45:27
And yeah, I would love to welcome you into my community and sign up for my love notes and to hear different stories and experiences and tips and tidbits and you'll be invited to different programs or retreats that I'm leading.
Kelly Luback
00:45:40
And I just want to say thank you, Heather.
Kelly Luback
00:45:42
This has been so fun.
Kelly Luback
00:45:43
It's so wonderful to connect with you.
Kelly Luback
00:45:45
And yes, we got lots to talk about.
Kelly
00:45:48
I know.
Kelly
00:45:48
Always.
Kelly
00:45:49
Thank you so so much.
Kelly
00:45:50
I'm glad we made this happen and I can't wait to continue it.
Kelly Luback
00:45:55
Thank you.
Heather
00:45:56
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Heather
00:45:59
A quick reminder that my brand new book, Parenting with Pride is now available wherever books are sold.
Heather
00:46:07
It is also available in E reader and audiobook format.
Heather
00:46:12
Click on the link in the show notes to buy it right this second or to send it to a friend.
Heather
00:46:18
If Just Breathe means something to you, it would mean so much to me if you would take 30 seconds to do two things.
Heather
00:46:26
First, please follow or subscribe to the show.
Heather
00:46:30
Just click on the plus sign or the word follow wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Heather
00:46:36
And second, if you would be willing to share a five star rating and review, I'd be so grateful.
Heather
00:46:44
It isn't just a nice thing for others to read, it actually helps this podcast get in front of those who need it most.
Heather
00:46:52
I appreciate you being part of the Just Breathe community.
Heather
00:46:55
Big hugs to you all.
Heather
00:46:57
Until next time.
00:01:14
Welcome back my friends.
Heather
00:01:15
If this is your first time here, I am delighted you found Just Breathe.
Heather
00:01:20
We talk all things loving, raising and empowering LGBTQ people, but at the core it is a space for you to take a breath, quiet all of the noise around you and just be before we get into today's episode, I want to encourage you to sign up for my inaugural Parenting with Pride Book Club.
Heather
00:01:45
Starting next Tuesday, July 9th, we will meet on Zoom for one hour a week for four weeks to discuss each of the four pillars.
Heather
00:01:55
Embrace, educate and unlearn bias, Empower and love.
Heather
00:02:01
Bring your thoughts and questions or just sit quietly and know you're surrounded by affirming people.
Heather
00:02:08
The link to register is in the show notes.
Heather
00:02:11
You can also sign up via my website chrysalismama.com this may be the best $97 you spend all year.
Heather
00:02:21
Today's guest is someone I have worked with one on one, who has helped me with a ton of internal work and healing and who I now consider a dear friend.
Heather
00:02:33
Kelly Luback is passionate about changing the world for the better through individual, group and community level healing programs that inspire health, embodied leadership and heightened capacity for change.
Heather
00:02:48
Kelly helps women leaders stay grounded and centered in their change making so they can deliver and lead impactful work, enjoy meaningful relationships and deep connection with their purpose without sacrificing body, mind and spirit to their mission.
Heather
00:03:07
Kelly's work happens at the intersection of deep and soulful coaching, science of the nervous system, shamanic healing, yoga, mindfulness and 25 years of experience leading service based programs around the world.
Heather
00:03:25
Today's conversation is the first of several that Kelly and I will have and I am so happy she is here to share her wisdom with us.
Kelly
00:03:35
Welcome Kelly.
Kelly
00:03:36
I am so happy that you are here today and I'm really, really excited to have this conversation about the nervous system which I think when we first hear those words we're not really sure what that means to take care of our nervous system, to pay attention to what our nervous system is telling us.
Kelly
00:03:59
And you, through so much experience and study have become, I mean the most brilliant expert on this subject that I have ever encountered.
Kelly
00:04:11
So I have, you know, like I said earlier in the introduction, I have worked with Kelly one on one for almost a year and she is also a very dear friend of mine.
Kelly
00:04:22
So I am delighted, delighted for you all to learn a little bit from Kelly today.
Kelly
00:04:28
So thank you for being here, thank.
Kelly Luback
00:04:30
You so much for having me and I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and I really appreciate the shout out on being a brilliant expert.
Kelly Luback
00:04:38
And I come very humbly.
Kelly Luback
00:04:40
But yes, being a complete nervous system nerd and excited to just dive in deeper, Both through my own experience and experience, Working with clients and students and just exploring the study of it.
Kelly Luback
00:04:51
Cause it is so foundational to everything that we live and experience.
Kelly
00:04:56
It's amazing.
Kelly
00:04:57
So I wonder if you would take just like 60 seconds and give a quick overview of how you.
Kelly
00:05:05
Because we often when things are going on in our lives and we're struggling for whatever reason, we're like trying to figure it out, and we're like picking and just grasping at different things.
Kelly
00:05:16
And it took a lot of that for you, for you to finally realize, oh my gosh, this is my nervous system.
Kelly
00:05:21
Can you talk just a little bit about that?
Kelly Luback
00:05:24
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:05:25
One of my favorite ways to explain the work that we do around the nervous system is to understand that we have a system within our bodies.
Kelly Luback
00:05:35
Our brain, our spinal cord, the peripheral system, our autonomic nervous system, which is all the automatic functions.
Kelly Luback
00:05:43
Like our nervous system is responsible for everything.
Kelly Luback
00:05:46
Our, our breathing, our digestion, our heart rate, our hormonal production or lack of production, our like, all of the different basic functions that we don't have to think about.
Kelly Luback
00:05:59
Wound healing, healing hormones, anti aging hormones, all of these things are influenced by the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:06:06
The way that I really like to think about it though, is it's basically the.
Kelly Luback
00:06:12
The tracker of all of our lived experience.
Kelly Luback
00:06:15
So whatever it is that we've lived from early childhood into adulthood and an older age is recorded in this system.
Kelly Luback
00:06:25
And so we begin to very early on track patterns that speak to us of what is safe and what is not safe.
Kelly Luback
00:06:35
And so with these patterns that are learned through our lived experience, what we observe, what we walk through, what we live, how we relate, we learn the rules in the system for what is safe and not safe.
Kelly Luback
00:06:50
And that basically creates patterns within us that then determine the ways that we engage in the world or the ways that we disengage from the world.
Kelly Luback
00:06:59
And so it's so foundational.
Kelly Luback
00:07:01
And I'm happy to go into this more as we speak.
Kelly Luback
00:07:04
But for me, that's like really the most essential piece is our systems are out looking at how do we stay in survival and how do we advance the species within the human that we are by keeping us safe.
Kelly Luback
00:07:19
And we have the threat response and the threat detection up all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:07:25
And we can learn to work with that in really effective ways that can help us learn to be in the world and thrive in the world in ways that are different than we might have experienced through our own lived experience, if that makes sense.
Kelly
00:07:40
It does.
Kelly
00:07:41
It's a lot.
Kelly
00:07:43
I think one of the most fascinating things for me as I started this work with you and I.
Kelly
00:07:49
My guess is that this is true for so many people is that at some point, all of the messaging that we've just been collecting our whole lives and our nervous system at.
Kelly
00:08:02
At a certain point, we start to not pay attention anymore to the messaging, to the information that our nervous system is giving us for various reasons.
Kelly
00:08:13
It's too overwhelming, it's too painful, it's too.
Kelly
00:08:16
We don't understand it and we disengage, we disconnect from that.
Kelly
00:08:21
And I know that I came to you at a point where I was like, I have no idea.
Kelly
00:08:26
Like, I could say, I think my nervous system is fried.
Kelly
00:08:30
I feel this way, but I couldn't tell you why and what was going on and where and where that came from.
Kelly
00:08:40
And so I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit first, validate that for everybody.
Kelly
00:08:47
Because that is such, I think, a very common experience for so many of us.
Kelly
00:08:51
So when you're saying like, these things are automatic, these things are.
Kelly
00:08:55
This over here on an intellectual level, we understand that.
Kelly Luback
00:09:00
Yeah.
Kelly
00:09:00
But if we just.
Kelly
00:09:01
Are you ask us right now to sit here and feel that.
Kelly
00:09:04
I would think that a lot of people are like, I can't.
Kelly Luback
00:09:08
Yes, yes, totally.
Kelly Luback
00:09:10
Okay.
Kelly Luback
00:09:11
There's so many pieces in here to unpack.
Kelly
00:09:14
12 questions there for you.
Kelly Luback
00:09:16
That's so great.
Kelly Luback
00:09:17
And I think, and what I do want to acknowledge too, is that I.
Kelly Luback
00:09:21
I feel like in the world now, especially post Covid, and this surge during COVID is just this, this sort of more popularized knowing of the nervous system or speaking about the nervous system and really normalizing anxiety, mood disorders, you know, depression, the ups and downs, feeling, the fight or flight is one that people use all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:09:47
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:09:47
I feel like the references to the nervous system became much more widely understood.
Kelly Luback
00:09:54
And so there's a lot more that's being spoken about it in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:09:58
And with that, I think there's a lot of disinformation as.
Kelly Luback
00:10:01
Or misinformation and confusion around it.
Kelly Luback
00:10:05
And so what.
Kelly Luback
00:10:07
What I think is really important to understand is we can have feelings of heightened sensation, which might feel like anxiety or nervousness or, you know, if I'm going to go give a talk or you're going to go speak on your amazing new.
Kelly Luback
00:10:24
You know, you go out there, you're going to engage a part of the nervous system which is very activating.
Kelly Luback
00:10:29
So you are on.
Kelly Luback
00:10:31
And that is normal for your nervous system to be activated and on.
Kelly Luback
00:10:36
And it can get a little extra activated and that can look like anxiety.
Kelly Luback
00:10:42
And then we can have the de escalating part of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:10:46
We call it the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the slowing things down.
Kelly Luback
00:10:53
And it's the rest and digest part.
Kelly Luback
00:10:55
It's the part that allows you to get to sleep at night or to digest your food well, or to slow down and be able to snuggle up with your kid and connect with them or have a deep and meaningful conversation with someone you care about.
Kelly Luback
00:11:10
That's also the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:11:14
And then there are times when, with the patterns that have been established.
Kelly Luback
00:11:18
So let's just say for example, that, you know, you grew up in a household where things were high intensity or high pressure and there was always like you had to be on, you had to perform, you had to say yes and you had to do good.
Kelly Luback
00:11:31
And all the things so many of us have lived this experience.
Kelly Luback
00:11:34
And so if that's the case, you might tend towards a more activated nervous system that leans more towards what looks like what we know as anxiety.
Kelly Luback
00:11:47
And so it's like this always being on, always being maybe a little on the verge of agitation or always needing to go, go, go and do, do, do.
Kelly Luback
00:11:56
So that's, that's nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:11:59
And then sometimes what happens is when people have been going and sort of stuck in a pattern for so long that it's like the switch gets stuck so the on switch is on and you can't turn it off.
Kelly Luback
00:12:15
So if you're in a more activated state, that could look like, oh, I can't wind down, I can't get to sleep, or something's going on with my kid and I'm really worried and I can't turn off the mind.
Kelly Luback
00:12:26
It just feels like those wheels are turning all the time.
Kelly Luback
00:12:30
And, and that is, that's because this pattern has just gotten in, in a, in a stuck way.
Kelly Luback
00:12:37
And what.
Kelly Luback
00:12:38
And then let's just take the flip of that, which is we also have the slowing down nervous system, which can be, you know, the.
Kelly Luback
00:12:46
I'm holding my newborn baby and we're so connected and it's beautiful.
Kelly Luback
00:12:50
Or I've, you know, hugging my partner or my teen and we're feeling really connected.
Kelly Luback
00:12:55
That's, that's like the slowing down nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:12:58
The other part of that, like further along the continuum is the freeze part where we get frozen or we get stuck in a place of slowed Down, So it might look like I can't get off the couch.
Kelly Luback
00:13:12
My, my brain isn't just processing thoughts well, or I really need to, I need to get my book out in the world, or I need to help my kid do X, Y and Z thing.
Kelly Luback
00:13:24
But I'm actually just stuck.
Kelly Luback
00:13:25
Like I'm frozen.
Kelly Luback
00:13:26
I can't, I can't move forward.
Kelly Luback
00:13:29
And in many cases that can look like, you know, sitting on the couch, chilling out with Netflix and a bowl of ice cream or chips.
Kelly Luback
00:13:37
And it's, it's more of the kind of numbing behavior and it's very decelerated.
Kelly Luback
00:13:43
Either one of those.
Kelly Luback
00:13:44
To be stuck in them is problematic because one, we're not meant to be stuck in them.
Kelly Luback
00:13:51
And we have a biology that's built to be able to move between the more activated and the more slowed down parts of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:14:02
So I want, I want to share an analogy that I find to be really helpful, but I just want to ask, does that make sense or do you have questions or do you want to offer any clarification?
Kelly Luback
00:14:12
I'm trying to.
Kelly
00:14:13
No, I think that makes a ton of sense and I think is a really, really great overview.
Kelly
00:14:22
And I do want to hear your analogy.
Kelly
00:14:25
And then I have one question that, or a couple questions after that because I'd like to touch on the freeze and also just kind of specific examples of, you know, where people might be and what that might look like.
Kelly
00:14:43
So it like relates back so we.
Kelly Luback
00:14:45
Can connect these totally to connect the dots to real life experience, which is the most important reason to learn this.
Kelly Luback
00:14:53
Okay, so what I.
Kelly Luback
00:14:55
One analogy I'd love to offer is the river analogy.
Kelly Luback
00:14:59
And so if we think of a flowing river as our nervous system and our body and our resilience, and then if we think of rocks in the river, the, you know, the rocks that might jut up in a river or where you have rapids, those are like the traumas, those are triggers.
Kelly Luback
00:15:20
They are stressors.
Kelly Luback
00:15:21
They're the.
Kelly Luback
00:15:22
All the weights that we're carrying, they change the flow of the river, right?
Kelly Luback
00:15:27
So the more rocks we have, the rougher the river is going to be.
Kelly Luback
00:15:32
It's just going to flow more rapidly and it's going to be a rougher ride.
Kelly Luback
00:15:37
The fewer rocks we have, the easier the water can flow.
Kelly Luback
00:15:42
And so what, what we're aiming for is flow.
Kelly Luback
00:15:47
What we want is to be able to move between.
Kelly Luback
00:15:50
And I, I touched on just some really basic parts of the nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:15:53
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:15:53
Like, we can nerd out on this for hours, but for the Basics, we want to move between the more accelerated state and the more sort of modified decelerated state.
Kelly Luback
00:16:03
And then, you know, being able to, like, really close down for the day and, you know, sleep, digest, do the healing repair that happens during sleep time.
Kelly Luback
00:16:14
And then there's freeze, which is.
Kelly Luback
00:16:16
Has its own function as well.
Kelly Luback
00:16:17
But we want to be able to move easefully between these states.
Kelly Luback
00:16:21
So when I think of the river analogy, it's like we want flow, and that flow is showing us we can move between those states.
Kelly Luback
00:16:27
So there's two ways that we can create more flow.
Kelly Luback
00:16:30
We can expand the river so we can, like, you know, dig deeper and dig out to the edges so there's more flow in the.
Kelly Luback
00:16:37
In the water, or dig deeper in the water and, you know, pull up the ground there.
Kelly Luback
00:16:42
Or we can take out the rocks.
Kelly Luback
00:16:44
So there's different ways to approach this.
Kelly Luback
00:16:46
So taking out the rocks looks like reducing stressors, doing deeper healing on some of the old, you know, trauma pieces.
Kelly Luback
00:16:54
And it doesn't have to be what I think of as big T trauma.
Kelly Luback
00:16:57
These can be little T traumas that result in freeze, which we're going to talk about in a moment.
Kelly Luback
00:17:02
And.
Kelly Luback
00:17:04
And.
Kelly Luback
00:17:05
And just these old patterns.
Kelly Luback
00:17:06
So clearing of these old ways, but the widening and deepening of the river is creating more spaciousness by doing things that grow our resilience.
Kelly Luback
00:17:16
So those are different tools and ways that we can work with our bodies and our nervous systems to create more flow by building more resilience to whatever the rocks are, right, Whatever rocks show up and impact the flow of the river.
Kelly Luback
00:17:35
Does that make sense?
Kelly
00:17:36
It does.
Kelly
00:17:37
I love that.
Kelly
00:17:38
What might a couple examples of tools be?
Kelly Luback
00:17:43
Okay, so there's so many beautiful tools for working with the nervous system, and one of them is my favorite.
Kelly Luback
00:17:52
Now, we're not on video, but I'm going to describe this, and it's one that I love to give to people.
Kelly Luback
00:17:56
It's the.
Kelly Luback
00:17:57
It's the most effective, easiest, simplest thing that we can do.
Kelly Luback
00:18:02
So let's just say, like, you're feeling really stressed out, and we've all had this experience.
Kelly Luback
00:18:07
I know we've talked through this one before.
Kelly
00:18:09
This is one of my favorites, y'all.
Kelly
00:18:10
I love this so much.
Kelly
00:18:11
So listen carefully.
Kelly
00:18:12
It works.
Kelly Luback
00:18:14
So you're gonna take your right hand, put it to your left shoulder, left hand to your right shoulder.
Kelly Luback
00:18:20
So you're just crisscrossing.
Kelly Luback
00:18:22
And then you are stroking from your shoulders down to your elbows.
Kelly Luback
00:18:25
We're doing this with you.
Kelly Luback
00:18:26
So just go ahead, reach your arms across, crossing over your arms Opposite hand to the shoulder, opposite shoulder.
Kelly Luback
00:18:35
And then you're just stroking down shoulder to elbow, gentle stroking.
Kelly Luback
00:18:40
We're going to keep doing this while I talk and explain what's happening here.
Kelly Luback
00:18:45
Now this is an evidence based tool which is scientifically proven to engage your parasympathetic nervous system that slowing down, rest and digest nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:18:58
Keep stroking down your arms.
Kelly Luback
00:19:00
Please stay with us.
Kelly Luback
00:19:02
So I want you to keep doing this and just notice what starts to happen in your body.
Kelly Luback
00:19:06
So this is, this is one tool that literally you could do this for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, it will change your state.
Kelly Luback
00:19:14
It's a really beautiful one to do with kids as well.
Kelly Luback
00:19:17
It's such.
Kelly Luback
00:19:18
It's like giving yourself this warm hug.
Kelly Luback
00:19:20
We're doing lots of good things with the brain and the body here.
Kelly Luback
00:19:26
But what's most important to know is it helps to bring on calm.
Kelly Luback
00:19:30
It just helps to raise the capacity of your parasympathetic nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:19:37
So keep on doing that as long as you like.
Kelly Luback
00:19:39
But what I really want, what's really important here, is for you to notice what changes as you do it.
Kelly Luback
00:19:45
So this is one.
Kelly Luback
00:19:46
I give this tool all the time on the street, with clients, with family, with myself, with my kiddo.
Kelly Luback
00:19:52
It's such a good and beautiful soothing tool.
Kelly Luback
00:19:55
And of course for your audience, Heather, when there's like big stressors or things going down in the family, or you're worrying about your kid or just confused about what's happening with your kid, this can be such a great one.
Kelly Luback
00:20:07
It's so simple.
Kelly Luback
00:20:08
It costs Nothing.
Kelly Luback
00:20:09
It takes 30 seconds and it can completely shift how you feel.
Kelly Luback
00:20:13
And if you want to offer it to your kid as well, can totally shift how they feel.
Kelly
00:20:19
Yes.
Kelly Luback
00:20:20
All right, so how do you feel with that one?
Kelly
00:20:23
You know, this is one of my favorites.
Kelly
00:20:25
I mean, I wish I would have had this tool seven years ago.
Kelly
00:20:29
I mean, I wish I would have had this tool 50 years ago.
Kelly
00:20:31
But I, it is, it works so well and so fast.
Kelly Luback
00:20:38
Yes.
Kelly
00:20:39
I mean, the first time you told me that, I was like, oh, come on.
Kelly Luback
00:20:42
I know it sounds so cheesy and silly, right?
Kelly
00:20:44
And then I did it.
Kelly
00:20:45
I was like, oh my gosh.
Kelly
00:20:49
Yes.
Kelly
00:20:49
I mean, you could do it while sitting at a stoplight.
Kelly
00:20:52
You can do it, you know, excuse yourself for 60 seconds.
Kelly
00:20:57
If you're in the middle of something and you just need a minute, need a minute.
Kelly
00:21:01
I mean, this plays into the whole, take a breath, right?
Kelly
00:21:05
Take a pause, take those things and do this.
Kelly
00:21:10
And you are in a completely different state.
Kelly
00:21:15
And not only does it calm your physical body?
Kelly
00:21:20
But also, of course, here's.
Kelly
00:21:22
I mean, this, I think, is probably for our next conversation that we have, but the fact that our brain is attached to our body, and I know that sounds like such a silly statement, but just so many of us disconnect those things.
Kelly Luback
00:21:41
So we Heads.
Kelly
00:21:43
Because it's easier to intellectualize everything and not feel it.
Kelly Luback
00:21:48
Yes.
Kelly
00:21:49
Too hard to feel it.
Kelly
00:21:51
And this helps reconnect.
Kelly
00:21:53
I think for me, this was one of the biggest tools of, like, reconnecting and starting to feel that, like, not only was my body calm, my brain was calm, and I could, like, think and I could make a decision or.
Kelly
00:22:10
Or have a conversation with clarity.
Kelly
00:22:13
And I mean, truly, truly such a game changer.
Kelly Luback
00:22:19
It is such a game changer.
Kelly Luback
00:22:20
And I think what you just said about us living disconnected from our bodies is really essential, Heather, because it is like we have.
Kelly Luback
00:22:28
We have been taught to disconnect from our bodies and to access wisdom only from the neck up.
Kelly Luback
00:22:34
But the truth is we have this whole.
Kelly Luback
00:22:38
They speak of bodies of wisdom.
Kelly Luback
00:22:39
Like, we have a body of wisdom that we can connect to, that can support us.
Kelly Luback
00:22:44
There's.
Kelly Luback
00:22:45
I mean, this is a whole other conversation, but we, you know, we have these bodies that we can check into for information, to access our intuition, to access, access, you know, next best steps to help us make decisions that are.
Kelly Luback
00:23:00
That are more in, you know, in service to us or our families or kiddos.
Kelly Luback
00:23:05
And.
Kelly Luback
00:23:06
And we have been taught to disengage the body.
Kelly Luback
00:23:10
So much of what I teach, I mean, the reason I'm in love with teaching the nervous system, which is not the only piece I teach, but it's a huge foundational piece, is that when we learn to get in connection with our bodies and our nervous systems, everything can change.
Kelly Luback
00:24:19
And when I say everything, I mean your love, relationships, your relationship with your kids, the way that you express in the world, the way you use your voice for change for good, you know, if you have a mission to write a book, you've just.
Kelly Luback
00:24:36
I'm just bringing up your book again, shamelessly promoting you.
Kelly Luback
00:24:41
You have.
Kelly Luback
00:24:42
You have a mission to put out in the world, then to be able to bring your voice to that in a way that really supports change is essential.
Kelly Luback
00:24:51
Or to.
Kelly Luback
00:24:52
Even if it's just, you know, standing up for your kid and working with a medical system or with the school system or, you know, navigating relationships, there's so many different ways that we express and engage in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:25:08
And when we are connected with our bodies and nervous systems, we can do that in a whole different level.
Kelly Luback
00:25:15
It's really, really powerful.
Kelly Luback
00:25:17
It is, it's.
Kelly
00:25:19
It is really extraordinary.
Kelly Luback
00:25:21
I know you said that you want to talk some examples.
Kelly
00:25:24
Yes, I was just going to say, you know, thinking about everybody who's listening, and a lot of, A lot of people are somewhere on the journey of their kiddo coming out, and that can bring up lots of nervous system dysregulation and feelings and disconnection and all of these things, even for those who are completely affirming, it can still bring up feelings of uncertainty and fear.
Kelly
00:25:59
And so I'm wondering if.
Kelly
00:26:02
And so I think a lot of that points to freeze, which is what I kind of brought up before, because that's an easy.
Kelly
00:26:10
For multiple reason that.
Kelly
00:26:11
That's an easy place to get to.
Kelly
00:26:13
So I'm wondering if you could talk about that a little bit just in relation to, you know, kind of specifically where our listeners are.
Kelly Luback
00:26:22
Absolutely.
Kelly Luback
00:26:23
So, so I, I know we love the freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:26:26
The freeze work, and I think we should go deeper in another.
Kelly Luback
00:26:30
Another moment on it, but I do want to speak to how it might show up for your listeners, for all of us as parents, but especially for those who are navigating, you know, new terrain with their kiddos.
Kelly Luback
00:26:46
I think, you know, one piece that comes up just to, you know, speak to the really hard part is how do we keep our kids safe?
Kelly Luback
00:26:53
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:26:54
I think that's a huge piece for parents is how do we keep our kids safe in a, in a world that's so biased and so, so harshly oriented towards our kids who are in the LGBTQ world?
Kelly Luback
00:27:10
And so that can be really activating.
Kelly Luback
00:27:12
And actually, I want to speak to both frees, but also the other end of it, because it can lead us into freeze, where we're just, you know, shut down or feeling really low about it, or we can't take action or, you know, we're holding, even holding our kid back because we're worried for them.
Kelly Luback
00:27:30
And it can look really activating on the other end of the spectrum as well, right?
Kelly Luback
00:27:35
Where just the anxiety and, like, can't turn the mind off and so worried about my kid and, and, and how am I going to keep them safe?
Kelly Luback
00:27:43
And all the things that, you know, we may have had raising my hand here may have had very early on in their, in their lives and, and then it just gets activated again, you know, as they, as they come out and we want to, we want to keep them safe again, but it's like a whole, in a whole different way.
Kelly Luback
00:28:03
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:28:04
So I think you know, that's one way that this can come out.
Kelly Luback
00:28:07
I think sometimes what can happen, too, is.
Kelly Luback
00:28:10
And this, you know, even for people who consider themselves allies or feel really woke or, you know, maybe are LGBTQ themselves or have, you know, been in that world, it can.
Kelly Luback
00:28:26
It can still bring up things.
Kelly Luback
00:28:29
I.
Kelly Luback
00:28:30
I have a dear, dear friend with kids who have come out recently, and she was just saying, like, my politics are one thing, but then when it's in my kids, it's like it's another.
Kelly Luback
00:28:43
And it's.
Kelly Luback
00:28:43
And.
Kelly Luback
00:28:44
And she's struggling.
Kelly Luback
00:28:45
She's like, I just want to keep them safe.
Kelly Luback
00:28:48
And.
Kelly Luback
00:28:49
And sometimes what that can look like is actually not so much the flight or anxiety or the freeze, but actually the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:28:56
And so it can also look like going, you know, going into battle with your kid.
Kelly Luback
00:29:02
Okay.
Kelly Luback
00:29:02
And let's also say the teen years are their own special.
Kelly Luback
00:29:06
Their own special.
Kelly
00:29:09
They are not for the faint of heart.
Kelly Luback
00:29:10
No, they are not.
Kelly Luback
00:29:11
And we are, like, called to resilience.
Kelly Luback
00:29:13
This is, like, where you really want to work on widening and deepening your river.
Kelly Luback
00:29:20
And.
Kelly Luback
00:29:21
And with that, sometimes even in our desire to be protective or to be supportive, it can look like, you know, we engage in the fight whether the fight is coming to us or we're bringing the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:29:33
And so it can look like, you know, really sparked emotion or getting angry or.
Kelly Luback
00:29:39
Or even kind of.
Kelly Luback
00:29:42
Let's.
Kelly Luback
00:29:42
I'm trying to think, like, you know, exploding on.
Kelly Luback
00:29:44
On things that seem like nothing things, but what's actually happening is you're feeling upset and scared, so you're picking a fight around something that is actually insignificant, but it's the safe place to pick a fight, right?
Kelly Luback
00:29:56
And it might look like it's with your kids, it might look like it's with your partner.
Kelly Luback
00:29:59
Might look like, you know, with your mother.
Kelly Luback
00:30:02
So there's all sorts of ways that this can show up.
Kelly Luback
00:30:06
And.
Kelly Luback
00:30:06
And then there's the part, I think, too.
Kelly Luback
00:30:08
I mean, there's so many layers for this community, right?
Kelly Luback
00:30:13
It's like navigating your own family relationships where you're wanting to keep your kids safe and emotion, including emotionally, like, emotionally safe, physically safe, all the things.
Kelly Luback
00:30:27
But if your family isn't exactly a family of allies yet, I'm always holding out hope for change.
Kelly Luback
00:30:36
If it feels like a place where you have to defend and your kid isn't emotionally safe, that can look also like fight, flight, or freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:30:47
And so it might look like picking fights with the family or finding ways to not be with them because it sucks to be around them.
Kelly Luback
00:30:54
When you feel like you, your kid isn't safe or, or just, you know, shutting down or having health things show up that are, you know, apparently random health things that are, you know, showing your body.
Kelly Luback
00:31:08
This is a whole other.
Kelly Luback
00:31:09
We need, we need another interview for this one.
Kelly Luback
00:31:12
Like how our bodies give us the signals to say no when we're having a hard time saying no.
Kelly Luback
00:31:17
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:31:17
So I don't mean to go off there, but those are some of the examples.
Kelly Luback
00:31:20
Are there others that you can think of either from your own experience or just from, you know, engaging with your.
Kelly
00:31:28
I think those are, those are really, really good.
Kelly
00:31:30
And, and I think too late and you made the point very, very well that freeze can show up anywhere.
Kelly
00:31:36
So it's not just in a heightened state of anxiety, really activated.
Kelly
00:31:43
It can show up anywhere on, along the line of your, you know, the spectrum of your nervous system and how it works.
Kelly
00:31:51
And so I think that's a really great thing for people just to know, to understand that.
Kelly
00:31:57
And the way it shows up is different for everyone.
Kelly
00:32:00
Everyone has their own special flavor of freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:32:03
Well, let me just clarify on that because the freeze is actually a piece of it.
Kelly Luback
00:32:08
It is the parasympathetic nervous system, but the shutdown part of it.
Kelly Luback
00:32:12
So it may be that some people go into freeze, but what I was wanting to communicate was that that's a real common place to go to and there's lots of freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:32:23
And I think we need a whole other se.
Kelly
00:32:25
I think so, yes.
Kelly Luback
00:32:27
But there's, there's also the more activated place which is the fight or the flight as well.
Kelly Luback
00:32:32
So it just can look different ways.
Kelly Luback
00:32:34
But all of these are different ways that our nervous systems get activated or in some.
Kelly Luback
00:32:39
I'm not a fan of the word trigger, but that they get triggered as well.
Kelly Luback
00:32:44
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:32:45
So those are.
Kelly Luback
00:33:40
So just to clarify.
Kelly
00:33:41
Thank you for clarifying that.
Kelly
00:33:42
Yes, I think that's fair and it's interesting to see.
Kelly
00:33:44
I will just share.
Kelly
00:33:45
It's an example of something that happened very recently because I was watching it, it wasn't happening to me, but we had a graduation party for my daughter and we had lots of people here and a lot of family were here and there.
Kelly
00:34:04
You know, as everyone listening knows that I have a number of non affirming family members.
Kelly
00:34:09
And so this was kind of the first time in, in a while that we were all together and it was a little bit of an experiment.
Kelly
00:34:18
And so it was interesting to watch how each of us handled it and approached different conversations and just the general, their presence in our house and all six of us were here, and all six of us approached it differently.
Kelly
00:34:38
And Connor approached it with fight.
Kelly
00:34:41
And it was so interesting.
Kelly
00:34:45
And at the same time, like, you know, I was actually super proud of him because he.
Kelly
00:34:50
He stayed in his lane, he stood up for himself, and he said things that maybe he wouldn't have said in a other, you know, another situation.
Kelly
00:35:00
But I know in his brain that this was very activating for him.
Kelly
00:35:06
And so this is how he was handling it, was taking on a person and really, like, standing his ground for who he was.
Kelly
00:35:16
And I thought I kind of watched the whole thing happen.
Kelly
00:35:18
I was like, that was actually a really effective use of fighting.
Kelly
00:35:25
And then was able to kind of, you know, the next day we did a whole debrief on everybody's different ways.
Kelly Luback
00:35:31
That they handled a family debrief, that.
Kelly
00:35:34
They were activated and how they felt it, you know, But I think talking about, like, where you.
Kelly
00:35:40
Where did you feel it in your body?
Kelly
00:35:42
Like, how did this affect you?
Kelly
00:35:44
Or how did this affect you?
Kelly
00:35:46
And even if it, you know, wasn't a perfect way of handling something, it was acknowledging it and talking about it and talking about, like, gosh, I'd really like to feel this way when this person is around.
Kelly
00:36:02
And, gosh, it was such a powerful conversation.
Kelly Luback
00:36:05
That is amazing.
Kelly Luback
00:36:06
Heather, can.
Kelly Luback
00:36:07
Okay, I just want to pull out a few different things, and hopefully I'm going to remember them all.
Kelly Luback
00:36:10
So one, I just want to say fight is a healthy response.
Kelly Luback
00:36:16
We, again, the flow of the nervous system, like the river flowing.
Kelly Luback
00:36:24
A healthy nervous system is able to move between these different places, right?
Kelly Luback
00:36:29
We have built into our animal bodies our capacity to fight, our capacity to flee in, our capacity to freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:36:38
And we, again, I don't mean to keep, like, putting it off for another conversation.
Kelly Luback
00:36:42
I just don't want to go down rabbit holes.
Kelly Luback
00:36:44
But.
Kelly Luback
00:36:45
But having each of these different things show up in our nervous system is actually really important.
Kelly Luback
00:36:51
And the fact that Connor has fight in him, and especially after the experience, he has walked.
Kelly Luback
00:36:55
His initial story, as you tell it in the book, is one of flight.
Kelly Luback
00:36:59
He.
Kelly Luback
00:36:59
He runs away, literally.
Kelly Luback
00:37:01
He flees in terror, right?
Kelly Luback
00:37:04
And so now he has this, like, vibrant fight response.
Kelly Luback
00:37:09
What an amazing thing.
Kelly Luback
00:37:10
Now, that doesn't mean go out and beat the shit out of somebody, right?
Kelly Luback
00:37:16
But having a healthy response where you're like, hold the phone.
Kelly Luback
00:37:20
We're going to talk through this.
Kelly Luback
00:37:21
Not right.
Kelly Luback
00:37:22
Like, that's actually really powerful.
Kelly
00:37:25
And this was verbal.
Kelly
00:37:26
I mean, this was not a physical fight.
Kelly
00:37:28
Like, I just want to make that clear.
Kelly
00:37:29
For me, this Was like he was having a well articulated verbal discussion, highly animated discussion with somebody that he did not freeze, he did not flee from.
Kelly
00:37:41
He stood his ground.
Kelly
00:37:42
And I was like, yes, totally.
Kelly
00:37:45
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:37:45
And just, just to be clear, I heard that.
Kelly Luback
00:37:47
I just want to make sure it doesn't sound like I'm saying, you know, go beat somebody up.
Kelly
00:37:51
No, I want to make sure everybody was on the same page there.
Kelly Luback
00:37:55
Being able to have like being in his own center and having the capacity to make a, you know, well founded argument and back, like that's really powerful.
Kelly Luback
00:38:05
And then what I also want to say is each of you having your own experience.
Kelly Luback
00:38:10
Like, what a beautiful thing for you to observe.
Kelly Luback
00:38:12
And again, I want to normalize.
Kelly Luback
00:38:14
We all have different ways that we respond and we all also have different ways that we kind of default.
Kelly Luback
00:38:20
Some of us are more afraid, some of us are more fleece, some of us are more freeze.
Kelly Luback
00:38:24
And as we heal and work with the nervous system, we expand our capacity to engage all of those.
Kelly Luback
00:38:30
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:38:31
So I just, I love that you were able to take a step back and really observe, which to me speaks so much to how much you have grown your capacity.
Kelly Luback
00:38:41
Like how wide and deep your river is.
Kelly Luback
00:38:43
Heather.
Kelly Luback
00:38:44
Because if you imagine how many years ago was like seven years, eight years ago.
Kelly Luback
00:38:52
So when he came out, if you imagine like state of your nervous system then and state of your nervous system now, like you were so deep in it and having your own experience and like very much a survival, survival mode, which is again really important.
Kelly Luback
00:39:08
But it's much harder to see.
Kelly Luback
00:39:11
Yes.
Kelly Luback
00:39:11
When you are in a state where you have a healthy and resilient nervous system, you can see the patterns differently.
Kelly Luback
00:39:18
And so you're noticing in your family, oh wow, we all have these different patterns.
Kelly Luback
00:39:22
So I just want to acknowledge that really speaks to a wide and deep river and how much you have grown that which is amazing.
Kelly Luback
00:39:30
And then I think the other here is just to say with all of this, it's really important to normalize these relationships.
Kelly Luback
00:39:39
It's so easy to pathologize people for the experience that they're having.
Kelly Luback
00:39:45
This is one of my favorite things that I teach everything from like deep, you know, de pathologizing.
Kelly Luback
00:39:52
Is that the right word?
Kelly
00:39:53
Sure, I think, I think we're going to make that a word.
Kelly Luback
00:39:56
Yes, I like it for destigmatizing and I like de pathologizing.
Kelly Luback
00:40:01
Like the pathology of anxiety, of low mood, of panic, of.
Kelly Luback
00:40:07
Of the fight.
Kelly Luback
00:40:08
Like when we actually break it down to the biology, there's.
Kelly Luback
00:40:14
It's not.
Kelly Luback
00:40:16
It's not pathological.
Kelly Luback
00:40:18
It's actually just a.
Kelly Luback
00:40:19
It's a learned pattern, a learned response that has happened that can be healed.
Kelly Luback
00:40:24
And so this isn't something to stigmatize.
Kelly Luback
00:40:28
It's actually something to kind of.
Kelly Luback
00:40:31
I always think of it as, you know, if you're with your screaming toddler and you, like, try to shake them or scare them or shove them in a room, like, it actually doesn't.
Kelly Luback
00:40:39
Like, it doesn't work.
Kelly Luback
00:40:40
They don't learn the things they need to learn.
Kelly Luback
00:40:43
If you scoop them up and you say, hey, baby, this is really hard, I see you're really upset, and you have a right to be upset, and this is the way it's gonna go.
Kelly Luback
00:40:53
Like, they'll learn, right?
Kelly Luback
00:40:55
And.
Kelly Luback
00:40:55
But none of us can be.
Kelly Luback
00:40:56
You know, I say the toddler example, but all of us have this.
Kelly Luback
00:40:59
All of us have, like, the unheard toddler in us where, you know, I know as an adult, there have been plenty of times where I'm like, I'm having a denture, like, inner tantrum, and I just want someone to hear me.
Kelly Luback
00:41:09
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:10
Don't we all have those?
Kelly
00:41:11
Oh, my gosh, yes.
Kelly Luback
00:41:14
So in that it's like the most potent thing is to actually have someone hear you and witness you.
Kelly Luback
00:41:23
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:23
I mean, I think it's part of the success of your podcast.
Kelly Luback
00:41:27
It's like people feel seen and feel heard.
Kelly Luback
00:41:29
Like, all of us need.
Kelly Luback
00:41:30
That is a very.
Kelly Luback
00:41:32
Actually nervous system.
Kelly Luback
00:41:33
It is the love and connection part of our nervous system that needs that, because being feeling seen and heard and accepted is part of.
Kelly Luback
00:41:42
I just.
Kelly Luback
00:41:43
I just got another one we're supposed to do.
Kelly Luback
00:41:45
But, like, feeling seen and heard and accepted, like, that is the work of our nervous system that developed with us living in.
Kelly Luback
00:41:55
In community and collective in tribes.
Kelly
00:41:58
Right.
Kelly Luback
00:41:59
And to be cast out of the tribe is a very, very dysregulating thing.
Kelly Luback
00:42:04
And so if we just bring that full circle back to who our people are that we're talking to here, like, we need more than ever to make sure that our kids feel seen and heard and accepted, and that includes the parents feeling seen and heard and accepted.
Kelly Luback
00:42:24
And that, again, back to the nervous system is actually part of what allows us to walk in the world in a healthy and whole and complete filling way.
Kelly Luback
00:42:36
Yes.
Kelly
00:42:37
And I think just to kind of to wrap this up today, because there are so many different directions we can go.
Kelly
00:42:44
And I think we have, like, four more episodes.
Kelly
00:42:46
But just that acknowledging and naming that you are not broken, this is not something that's, you know, you need to fix There, it's just.
Kelly
00:43:01
It's something that can be healed.
Kelly
00:43:03
It is something that each one of us have our own version of nervous system work and healing that we can do.
Kelly
00:43:13
And so I think there's so much.
Kelly
00:43:15
It's so empowering to know.
Kelly
00:43:17
Oh, gosh, this is something I can actually do, something I can actually actively do something about this so I can feel better and I can be a better me.
Kelly
00:43:30
Which then allows you to be a better you out in the world, right?
Kelly Luback
00:43:35
Yeah.
Kelly Luback
00:43:35
Better parent, better activity, all the things.
Kelly
00:43:40
So, yes.
Kelly
00:43:43
Thank you.
Kelly
00:43:44
Oh, my goodness.
Kelly
00:43:45
So good.
Kelly
00:43:45
So y'all got a taste of the nervous system today.
Kelly
00:43:50
Kelly will be back.
Kelly
00:43:51
We will be having several more conversations over the next few months, so I can't wait for you to hear more.
Kelly
00:44:00
This is where we're going to end for today.
Kelly
00:44:01
Is there anything that you would like to share such as where people can find you if they would like to get in touch with you directly?
Kelly Luback
00:44:11
Sure.
Kelly Luback
00:44:12
So two things.
Kelly Luback
00:44:13
One, I just want to share my favorite expression that I put in all of my love notes and newsletters and what have you, and that is that the world needs you.
Kelly Luback
00:44:23
Well, and that term came to me years ago and I realized as I was writing it, every single newsletter, that it just was the truth of it was just becoming more and more true in my body.
Kelly Luback
00:44:37
And what's held in those words of the world needs you.
Kelly Luback
00:44:40
Well, is the better that the more regulated, the healthier our nervous systems, the more capacity we have.
Kelly Luback
00:44:48
The wider and deeper our rivers are, the better we can show up for our loved ones, for our kids, our partners, our colleagues, our clients, our.
Kelly Luback
00:44:57
Our patients.
Kelly Luback
00:44:58
If you're a healthcare person, our.
Kelly Luback
00:45:00
Our community members and the world, the stronger, the better we are.
Kelly Luback
00:45:05
And the more resilient we are, the better we can show up in the world.
Kelly Luback
00:45:08
And the world right now really needs us.
Kelly Luback
00:45:11
Well, and so I.
Kelly Luback
00:45:13
That's the one piece I want to leave with.
Kelly Luback
00:45:15
And then you can find me@kellylubeck.com and that's K E L L Y L U B E C K dot com.
Kelly Luback
00:45:23
I sure thought.
Kelly Luback
00:45:24
I'm sure that'll be in the show notes and.
Kelly Luback
00:45:27
And yeah, I would love to welcome you into my community and sign up for my love notes and to hear different stories and experiences and tips and tidbits and you'll be invited to different programs or retreats that I'm leading.
Kelly Luback
00:45:40
And I just want to say thank you, Heather.
Kelly Luback
00:45:42
This has been so fun.
Kelly Luback
00:45:43
It's so wonderful to connect with you.
Kelly Luback
00:45:45
And yes, we got lots to talk about.
Kelly
00:45:48
I know.
Kelly
00:45:48
Always.
Kelly
00:45:49
Thank you so so much.
Kelly
00:45:50
I'm glad we made this happen and I can't wait to continue it.
Kelly Luback
00:45:55
Thank you.
Heather
00:45:56
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Heather
00:45:59
A quick reminder that my brand new book, Parenting with Pride is now available wherever books are sold.
Heather
00:46:07
It is also available in E reader and audiobook format.
Heather
00:46:12
Click on the link in the show notes to buy it right this second or to send it to a friend.
Heather
00:46:18
If Just Breathe means something to you, it would mean so much to me if you would take 30 seconds to do two things.
Heather
00:46:26
First, please follow or subscribe to the show.
Heather
00:46:30
Just click on the plus sign or the word follow wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Heather
00:46:36
And second, if you would be willing to share a five star rating and review, I'd be so grateful.
Heather
00:46:44
It isn't just a nice thing for others to read, it actually helps this podcast get in front of those who need it most.
Heather
00:46:52
I appreciate you being part of the Just Breathe community.
Heather
00:46:55
Big hugs to you all.
Heather
00:46:57
Until next time.
