The Conflict Cure: Fix the Process, Save the Person

WEBVTT
00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:51.373
This week we are talking about conflict and the cure for it.
00:00:51.373 --> 00:01:02.873
Um, once again, this is another episode where I believe Chrissy's going to take the lead because more than likely I am the one that caused the conflict by saying something that someone didn't appreciate.
00:01:02.873 --> 00:01:08.305
Uh-Uh, I wasn't even done to say the quiet part out loud.
00:01:08.305 --> 00:01:09.472
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:09.472 --> 00:01:10.540
Stay tuned.
00:01:12.939 --> 00:01:14.673
She's the CEO.
00:01:14.673 --> 00:01:16.873
He's the marketing and operations guy.
00:01:16.873 --> 00:01:20.272
If it's broken, you need the business fix.
00:01:22.373 --> 00:01:24.706
Um, we're gonna start out with banter.
00:01:24.706 --> 00:01:26.073
Yes.
00:01:26.073 --> 00:01:27.240
We can.
00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:41.105
So the suggested topic we have here is one that I find that's interesting is it's mentioned a time you thought two people just hated each other, only to find out they were just arguing over responsibility.
00:01:41.105 --> 00:01:44.605
It's about saying it sounds like our podcast sometimes.
00:01:47.472 --> 00:01:48.506
They must hate one another.
00:01:48.506 --> 00:01:53.439
No. There's there's times where I'm like, ah, was I supposed to do that?
00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:54.105
Damn it.
00:01:54.105 --> 00:01:59.740
I was, um, and I just sent Chrissy a really nasty message about it.
00:01:59.740 --> 00:02:00.573
It's all good.
00:02:00.573 --> 00:02:01.539
Right, right.
00:02:01.539 --> 00:02:02.006
Thanks.
00:02:02.006 --> 00:02:03.806
Thankfully you're resilient.
00:02:03.806 --> 00:02:13.740
Um. And yet, seriously, to me, I see conflict in so many cases in business is largely misunderstandings.
00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:16.073
It is, and it's not.
00:02:16.073 --> 00:02:16.640
I'm right.
00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:17.673
You're wrong.
00:02:17.673 --> 00:02:18.006
It's.
00:02:18.006 --> 00:02:21.173
We're both five degrees from where we need to be.
00:02:21.173 --> 00:02:21.906
Yes.
00:02:21.906 --> 00:02:23.673
Um. It's not.
00:02:23.673 --> 00:02:24.539
We need to.
00:02:24.539 --> 00:02:25.073
Yeah.
00:02:25.073 --> 00:02:31.740
It's the the other piece to that is too is when there is some conflict to me, I kind of like to see it.
00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:37.640
You do not because I'm a pot stirrer and not because you want to sit there and pop popcorn and watch.
00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:38.006
No.
00:02:38.006 --> 00:02:38.473
Okay.
00:02:38.473 --> 00:02:39.740
I'm not in my own business.
00:02:39.740 --> 00:02:40.973
In someone else's business.
00:02:40.973 --> 00:02:41.872
Absolutely.
00:02:42.939 --> 00:02:44.439
In my own.
00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:50.340
If there is some respectful conflict, I'm going to leave it.
00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.372
I want to make sure I say it's respectful.
00:02:52.372 --> 00:02:57.740
Yes, that tells me we're looking at things and we're looking at multiple angles of things.
00:02:57.740 --> 00:03:02.240
And it's not just drive the bus straight forward and stay in between lanes.
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:03.140
Yeah.
00:03:03.140 --> 00:03:13.073
Um, I, I know you've experienced that, especially the thing that I think is kind of interesting is you coming up through the family business.
00:03:13.073 --> 00:03:13.939
Yes.
00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:21.973
And me having worked in a number of different fields in, let's just say my career path looks like whoever was making the path was trunk.
00:03:21.973 --> 00:03:22.506
Mhm.
00:03:22.506 --> 00:03:30.540
Um, like our perspectives I think are going to be once again two degrees different.
00:03:30.540 --> 00:03:31.040
Yeah.
00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:32.806
Not ninety degrees different.
00:03:32.806 --> 00:03:34.640
No, it shouldn't be one hundred and eighty degrees different.
00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:37.173
So I'm, I'm, I'm excited for this.
00:03:37.173 --> 00:03:41.106
Is there is there anything interesting else interesting going on in life that we should be aware of?
00:03:41.106 --> 00:03:42.140
No. Nothing major.
00:03:42.140 --> 00:03:44.706
I mean, Super Bowls this week, so I'm excited about that.
00:03:44.706 --> 00:03:45.140
You are.
00:03:45.140 --> 00:03:45.973
I know it's football.
00:03:45.973 --> 00:03:46.939
I know you don't care.
00:03:46.939 --> 00:03:52.806
I know it's the it's the it's the same thing back in January when I'm like excited about the Dakar Rally.
00:03:52.806 --> 00:03:53.540
You're like what?
00:03:53.540 --> 00:03:54.040
Sure.
00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:54.406
Okay.
00:03:54.406 --> 00:03:57.772
Next week, when you ask me, I'll be depressed, so it'll be okay.
00:03:57.772 --> 00:04:01.040
Football will be over and it will be darkness for a few months.
00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:02.306
You can't do reruns.
00:04:02.306 --> 00:04:03.939
No, I don't rewatch it.
00:04:03.939 --> 00:04:05.473
I'm not that person.
00:04:05.473 --> 00:04:07.473
Oh, no. That's.
00:04:07.473 --> 00:04:10.973
What about, like, couldn't you set up one of the kids with Tecmo Bowl?
00:04:10.973 --> 00:04:16.105
No. I'm not that desperate.
00:04:16.105 --> 00:04:17.772
Okay, just making just making sure.
00:04:17.772 --> 00:04:18.805
I'll just be sad.
00:04:18.805 --> 00:04:19.540
Okay.
00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:21.305
You'd rather be sad than watch.
00:04:21.305 --> 00:04:22.505
Watch Tecmo Bowl?
00:04:22.505 --> 00:04:23.173
Yes.
00:04:23.173 --> 00:04:28.805
Makes sense in your business, especially clarity HR.
00:04:28.805 --> 00:04:30.105
Yeah.
00:04:30.105 --> 00:04:38.906
Um, you you guys aren't typically brought in until, well after the poop has hit the fan and probably dried.
00:04:38.906 --> 00:04:39.139
Yeah.
00:04:39.139 --> 00:04:40.272
When it comes to conflict.
00:04:40.272 --> 00:04:40.973
Yeah.
00:04:40.973 --> 00:04:41.406
yeah.
00:04:41.406 --> 00:04:43.473
The poop has hit the fan.
00:04:43.473 --> 00:04:47.540
Spread on all the walls, spread on all the people, and is now dry.
00:04:47.540 --> 00:04:48.973
And they're like, can you just hose this off?
00:04:48.973 --> 00:04:53.339
It's a toxic environment, and we need your help.
00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:54.872
Correct.
00:04:54.872 --> 00:05:03.840
What is like I don't want to say toolkit because it sounds like, hey, this just takes pliers and duct tape and we're everyone's happy again.
00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:05.340
But what?
00:05:05.340 --> 00:05:09.706
I know you're going to have something that's going to have similar letters to spell something out.
00:05:09.706 --> 00:05:10.073
I do.
00:05:10.073 --> 00:05:11.240
So good good, good.
00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.340
Let's get into that because I'm excited for this.
00:05:13.340 --> 00:05:14.906
I plan, so I will tell you.
00:05:14.906 --> 00:05:15.139
Yeah.
00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:20.906
By the time we're usually called into conflict, especially me, it's it's never about the original issue anymore.
00:05:20.906 --> 00:05:23.973
People are I mean, it's emotions, it's assumptions.
00:05:23.973 --> 00:05:26.173
It's a lot of pointing, of fingers.
00:05:26.173 --> 00:05:28.406
Sometimes it's completely frozen.
00:05:28.406 --> 00:05:29.872
Not willing to talk to anyone.
00:05:29.872 --> 00:05:35.073
I mean, a lot of unspoken frustration that can go on for weeks or months and in some cases years.
00:05:35.073 --> 00:05:37.340
So but most conflict.
00:05:37.340 --> 00:05:38.773
Josh isn't a people problem.
00:05:38.773 --> 00:05:41.240
It's really an untrained leadership problem.
00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:43.206
And so you've got to fix the process.
00:05:43.206 --> 00:05:44.340
You've got to teach the skills.
00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:47.540
And then the drama usually disappears when you do those two things.
00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:52.506
If you can fix the process and teach the skills and people will use the skills, I mean, that's the other part.
00:05:52.506 --> 00:05:55.073
I mean, you do have to do the thing.
00:05:55.073 --> 00:05:59.939
So it's not like my Spanish class know from high school.
00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:01.040
No, you don't get just to show up.
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:01.840
You learn it once.
00:06:01.840 --> 00:06:03.840
El gato, el perro.
00:06:03.840 --> 00:06:05.073
No, you're not no longer.
00:06:05.073 --> 00:06:06.105
You're not bilingual.
00:06:06.105 --> 00:06:07.040
Doesn't work that way.
00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:10.840
But I'll say it honestly for me, I have not always handled conflict well.
00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:19.073
So early on, I either avoided it too long or, you know, came in too hot trying to fix it fast instead of like, let's have the quick conversation.
00:06:19.073 --> 00:06:21.506
Like the direct forgot about tone.
00:06:21.506 --> 00:06:24.906
Like neither of those worked and I had to deal with the repercussions.
00:06:24.906 --> 00:06:31.305
So what changed everything for me and kind of really how we kind of solve things with our clients is building on that resilient operating system.
00:06:31.305 --> 00:06:39.673
So teaching people those interpersonal effectiveness skills for myself and then realizing that conflict resolution resolution, really it's not about personality, it's about those skills.
00:06:39.673 --> 00:06:41.805
And those skills can be learned.
00:06:41.805 --> 00:06:47.673
So without further ado, I'd like to give you the three R's of conflict resolution.
00:06:47.673 --> 00:06:48.340
Are you ready?
00:06:48.340 --> 00:06:49.473
Can I make a pirate joke?
00:06:49.473 --> 00:06:50.139
Sure.
00:06:50.139 --> 00:06:52.139
Ah, yeah.
00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:53.105
Yeah.
00:06:53.105 --> 00:06:54.540
The three R's.
00:06:54.540 --> 00:06:56.105
It's not talk like a pirate day.
00:06:56.105 --> 00:06:58.073
No, that wasn't even planned.
00:06:58.073 --> 00:06:59.439
My goodness.
00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:00.340
Amazing.
00:07:00.340 --> 00:07:01.105
Yes.
00:07:01.105 --> 00:07:02.740
So, the three R's.
00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:03.305
Are you ready?
00:07:03.305 --> 00:07:03.906
They are.
00:07:03.906 --> 00:07:07.906
Regulate, relate and resolve.
00:07:07.906 --> 00:07:09.605
Regulate, relate and resolve.
00:07:09.605 --> 00:07:10.105
Okay.
00:07:10.105 --> 00:07:10.473
Okay.
00:07:10.473 --> 00:07:13.105
So number one is regulate and that is yourself first.
00:07:13.105 --> 00:07:17.406
So if you don't regulate yourself you contaminate the room.
00:07:17.406 --> 00:07:21.105
Okay I have a great I have to say this.
00:07:21.105 --> 00:07:21.673
Go ahead.
00:07:21.673 --> 00:07:26.506
I always love it when someone's like just comes in screaming calm down.
00:07:26.506 --> 00:07:30.805
And I'm like, yeah, get right on that.
00:07:30.805 --> 00:07:31.639
Yes.
00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.906
So the first step in any conflict is regulation.
00:07:34.906 --> 00:07:37.139
And it's it's not their regulation.
00:07:37.139 --> 00:07:40.040
The person that you're dealing with, it's your regulation.
00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:44.540
So if you're escalated, defensive or already convinced, you're right.
00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:50.605
The conversation's over before it starts and your nervous system is going to lead you, not your logic.
00:07:50.605 --> 00:07:54.540
And so that's why we talk about a framework from Doctor Marcia Lena.
00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:56.706
And she's the mother of dialectical behavioral therapy.
00:07:56.706 --> 00:07:57.406
Take a deep breath.
00:07:57.406 --> 00:07:58.805
Yes, I said therapy.
00:07:58.805 --> 00:08:01.406
It's called Dear man, Give Fast.
00:08:01.406 --> 00:08:03.006
And we did this in episode twenty one.
00:08:03.006 --> 00:08:09.506
We broke all of this down in detail, but kind of to tell you a little bit more like how Dear Man shows up as we regulate ourselves.
00:08:09.506 --> 00:08:12.473
So first, I mean, you're describing the facts, not the story.
00:08:12.473 --> 00:08:15.006
You're expressing the impact without blame.
00:08:15.006 --> 00:08:19.439
So I've learned to start with something like, you know, here's what I've observed.
00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:22.406
Here's what not, here's what you did wrong.
00:08:22.406 --> 00:08:22.939
Okay.
00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:24.605
So let's say that again.
00:08:24.605 --> 00:08:31.273
Here's what I observed or here's what I'm seeing or here's what I think I'm seeing, not here's where you screwed up.
00:08:31.273 --> 00:08:32.139
Here's where you're wrong.
00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:35.939
So that shift alone can lower defensiveness.
00:08:35.939 --> 00:08:39.605
So if you're regulating yourself and you're starting with here's what I've observed.
00:08:39.605 --> 00:08:41.405
And so that looks like in practice.
00:08:41.405 --> 00:08:43.105
Pausing before responding.
00:08:43.105 --> 00:08:45.340
Naming your facts and not your assumptions.
00:08:45.340 --> 00:08:48.072
I mean, we all know what it means to assume, right?
00:08:48.072 --> 00:08:50.905
Did anyone tell you that growing up?
00:08:50.905 --> 00:08:51.405
Me?
00:08:51.405 --> 00:08:52.340
Yes, maybe.
00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:53.605
Maybe a few couple times.
00:08:53.605 --> 00:08:53.872
Yeah.
00:08:53.872 --> 00:08:54.639
Same to me.
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.939
And then it slows your tone on purpose.
00:08:56.939 --> 00:09:00.105
So I've had to stop my conversation before and say, you know, I need to reset.
00:09:00.105 --> 00:09:01.539
I'm getting defensive.
00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:02.340
Yep, yep.
00:09:02.340 --> 00:09:03.072
It happens.
00:09:03.072 --> 00:09:06.273
And every single time that I've said that, the room is softened.
00:09:06.273 --> 00:09:11.706
So I've been in rooms where it's starting to get heated and I'm the leader in the room and I'm going, you know what?
00:09:11.706 --> 00:09:12.872
I'm starting to get defensive.
00:09:12.872 --> 00:09:14.740
Let's just take a breath for a second or you know what?
00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:16.472
Let's all let's take a restroom break.
00:09:16.472 --> 00:09:18.105
It's okay to diffuse.
00:09:18.105 --> 00:09:19.240
Let's all go get some coffee.
00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:20.139
Let's come back.
00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:21.639
We got ten minutes.
00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:28.673
Because we have to remember, if you're dysregulated, you're not resolving conflict, you're exporting it, and you're usually causing it to explode, too.
00:09:28.673 --> 00:09:32.406
So, like, you're just throwing kerosene on the fire.
00:09:32.406 --> 00:09:37.505
It's funny, people, there's an analogy from people to dogs here.
00:09:37.505 --> 00:09:38.005
Yeah.
00:09:38.005 --> 00:09:40.840
Your your dog is only anxious because you're anxious.
00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:41.440
Mhm.
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.472
Um, and if you're like oh I'm, I'm worried about my dog.
00:09:45.472 --> 00:09:46.340
Uh guess what.
00:09:46.340 --> 00:09:48.206
The dog is going to be worried.
00:09:48.206 --> 00:09:49.706
Your people are the same way.
00:09:49.706 --> 00:09:53.340
If you're worried, if you're anxious, if you're screaming, guess what?
00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:54.539
They're gonna do the same thing.
00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:56.740
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:56.740 --> 00:09:59.139
So now the second R is relate.
00:09:59.139 --> 00:10:01.639
And that is respectful direct communication.
00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:02.906
Communication.
00:10:02.906 --> 00:10:07.505
So you know how you say it determines whether it lands or it detonates.
00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:10.206
Right.
00:10:10.206 --> 00:10:12.505
Don't launch grenades.
00:10:12.505 --> 00:10:14.206
Oh don't do it.
00:10:14.206 --> 00:10:15.639
It's not it's not worth it.
00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:17.472
And see this is where most sometimes.
00:10:17.472 --> 00:10:19.472
Well okay, I take that back.
00:10:19.472 --> 00:10:29.240
There was a moment in a discussion that Steve and I had, which is my husband, a couple of days ago, and I did something, and I knew when I did it that I was throwing a grenade and pulled the pin and tossed.
00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:29.639
Exactly.
00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:30.806
He's like, do you regret what you did?
00:10:30.806 --> 00:10:34.340
And I was like, not for a second, not for a second.
00:10:34.340 --> 00:10:35.740
Sure, don't.
00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:37.072
Occasionally you're going to do that.
00:10:37.072 --> 00:10:40.139
But as a as a business leader, you really shouldn't.
00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:43.340
So how you say it determines whether it lands or it detonates.
00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:51.340
So this is where most leaders either overcorrect or they under-deliver, and they think that they have to choose between being kind or being clear.
00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:52.706
And that's a false choice.
00:10:52.706 --> 00:10:55.139
You can be clear and you can be kind.
00:10:55.139 --> 00:10:56.440
At the same time.
00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:03.406
I think oftentimes people think that clear means I just have to be so direct, direct to the point that people hate me and that's that's not it.
00:11:03.406 --> 00:11:04.906
So and give fast.
00:11:04.906 --> 00:11:07.472
It's how you preserve the relationship in Dear man give fast.
00:11:07.472 --> 00:11:08.340
So you're gentle.
00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:12.539
You show interest, you validate perspective without necessarily agreeing.
00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:14.940
People think that validate means that I have to agree with somebody.
00:11:14.940 --> 00:11:15.806
It does not.
00:11:15.806 --> 00:11:18.440
It just means that I have to say I understand your perspective.
00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:19.539
You still may be wrong.
00:11:19.539 --> 00:11:21.273
Don't say it that way either.
00:11:21.273 --> 00:11:24.706
But I see your perspective and you keep an easy manner.
00:11:24.706 --> 00:11:27.505
And then fast is how you preserve your integrity so you're fair.
00:11:27.505 --> 00:11:29.340
You don't apologize for your values.
00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:39.740
You don't apologize for your opinions, you stick to the truth and then you continue to broken record and be truthful so you can say, I understand your perspective and this behavior still isn't acceptable.
00:11:39.740 --> 00:11:40.505
That's not harsh.
00:11:40.505 --> 00:11:41.605
That's leadership.
00:11:41.605 --> 00:11:42.873
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:42.873 --> 00:11:44.740
So you're setting the cultural standard here.
00:11:44.740 --> 00:11:47.072
So, you know, we don't talk about people.
00:11:47.072 --> 00:11:48.406
We talk to them.
00:11:48.406 --> 00:11:49.906
We challenge ideas.
00:11:49.906 --> 00:11:52.072
We don't challenge character.
00:11:52.072 --> 00:11:57.406
It's really important that when you say things I'm seeing this behavior, not you're dishonest.
00:11:57.406 --> 00:11:59.539
I'm seeing that you're acting in a dishonest manner.
00:11:59.539 --> 00:12:09.273
So when you say something specifically and you call that person out, you're hitting their integrity and then they're going to naturally become defensive.
00:12:09.273 --> 00:12:21.240
The other piece is I've also learned that I have a tendency or I had I don't anymore, which is probably I need to work on the softening part now because I went from really, really squishy to like totally hard edge.
00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.206
And now we're just kind of working on the on the in-between.
00:12:24.206 --> 00:12:31.639
But I learned the hard way that politeness avoids discomfort and kindness creates clarity, so avoidance always costs you more later.
00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:45.005
So you've got to be clear in a way that people understand when you talk about like growing up in the family business, my dad had a really great way of telling people what they were doing a horrible job, and they would thank him for it.
00:12:45.005 --> 00:12:49.039
And then when they would exit his office, they had no idea that they did anything wrong.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.472
So we're like, that was not clear.
00:12:51.472 --> 00:12:55.639
They they think they deserve a raise and we think they should be fired.
00:12:55.639 --> 00:13:03.906
So you have to remember, kindness without clarity is avoidance and clarity without kindness is aggression.
00:13:03.906 --> 00:13:05.005
It's so funny.
00:13:05.005 --> 00:13:12.472
And the thing that I find that can make such a huge, that made a huge difference for me with that was just voice.
00:13:12.472 --> 00:13:15.440
Yes, it was volume and tone.
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:17.873
Ninety percent of it is tone.
00:13:17.873 --> 00:13:18.306
Yeah.
00:13:18.306 --> 00:13:27.206
To do the to change those two things as hey, I'm seeing this, I'm not I'm seeing this.
00:13:27.206 --> 00:13:27.840
Yeah.
00:13:29.206 --> 00:13:30.005
Same exact words.
00:13:30.005 --> 00:13:31.039
It's the same exact words.
00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.105
But tone takes a long time to develop.
00:13:33.105 --> 00:13:36.639
And it's something that you have to work on in professional development.
00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:41.673
And people have to be willing to give you feedback, and you have to be willing to take that feedback.
00:13:41.673 --> 00:13:45.206
And it can take decades.
00:13:45.206 --> 00:13:48.972
If you don't want to be a good listener, be a good listener, people.
00:13:48.972 --> 00:13:53.005
It has taken decades and we're still working.
00:13:53.005 --> 00:13:53.572
You're still working.
00:13:53.572 --> 00:13:55.039
And I will say I'm still working on it too.
00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:00.740
I am not I am much better at it than I was when I first started, but I can still tend to get better.
00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.505
And again, there are times where I will launch a grenade because.
00:14:04.605 --> 00:14:05.240
Because it's fun.
00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.340
Because I made the choice, doesn't mean it was the right choice.
00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:10.005
But I made the choice.
00:14:10.005 --> 00:14:12.105
Sometimes you like, I need a win.
00:14:12.105 --> 00:14:12.873
Yes.
00:14:14.105 --> 00:14:16.406
Realize you're going to be dealing with conflict on that.
00:14:16.406 --> 00:14:16.806
Yes.
00:14:16.806 --> 00:14:20.773
Which you're going to have to resolve.
00:14:20.773 --> 00:14:26.373
Are we ready for that third R if there's no structure.
00:14:26.373 --> 00:14:27.673
The conflict is going to come back.
00:14:27.673 --> 00:14:30.005
And this is where a lot of conflict conversations fail.
00:14:30.005 --> 00:14:31.806
They end with relief, not resolution.
00:14:31.806 --> 00:14:34.072
So everyone feels better, but nothing actually changes.
00:14:34.072 --> 00:14:35.639
So here is my.
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.972
It's a three step resolution framework.
00:14:37.972 --> 00:14:39.072
So root cause.
00:14:39.072 --> 00:14:40.940
Ask yourself what is actually broken.
00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:43.406
Whether it's process role clarity expectations.
00:14:43.406 --> 00:14:47.740
Second you have the mutual goal which is what are we both trying to protect or achieve.
00:14:47.740 --> 00:14:49.639
And then third is that clear path forward.
00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:53.472
So who owns what by when and how success is measured.
00:14:53.472 --> 00:14:57.373
So I have seen the same conflict resolve five times because nothing's documented.
00:14:57.373 --> 00:15:04.740
So you've got to take some time and walk through because resolution without structure is just rehearsal.
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:06.206
Oh yeah.
00:15:06.206 --> 00:15:07.039
Look at that.
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:07.572
Yeah.
00:15:07.572 --> 00:15:11.639
So I mean, as far as like manager coaching moments, let's talk about, you know, what you need to do.
00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:13.940
You teach leaders to document agreements.
00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:15.572
You revisit those expectations.
00:16:12.793 --> 00:16:15.393
You continue to parrot new things and then you follow up.
00:16:15.393 --> 00:16:16.493
You don't fade out.
00:16:16.493 --> 00:16:25.060
So when managers don't know how to resolve conflict, it escalates back to the CEO and you become the referee that you didn't want to be, but you are.
00:16:25.060 --> 00:16:26.560
So that striped shirt.
00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:27.660
Exactly.
00:16:27.660 --> 00:16:29.826
But teaching the skill is a scalability move.
00:16:29.826 --> 00:16:33.660
So this really enables you to grow the business and you can move faster.
00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:36.426
And if there's no agreement, there's no resolution, there's just relief.
00:16:36.426 --> 00:16:40.026
So you've got to remember that there has to be agreement within the organization.
00:16:40.026 --> 00:16:45.259
And it matters because it's really a core skill that we can we can teach because conflict isn't toxic.
00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:49.460
Unskilled conflict is conflict is actually very healthy for an organization.
00:16:49.460 --> 00:16:51.026
It's good to move it forward.
00:16:51.026 --> 00:16:57.725
So but when leaders know how to regulate themselves, relate with respect and resolve with structure, conflict becomes data, no longer drama.
00:16:59.326 --> 00:17:03.860
I feel like we like have to mic drop and just walk out of it can just be done.
00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:04.593
Yes.
00:17:04.593 --> 00:17:08.393
So as far as the memory hook for the three things, the three Rs.
00:17:08.393 --> 00:17:13.792
So you regulate yourself, you relate with respect and then you resolve with structure.
00:17:13.792 --> 00:17:14.492
Wow.
00:17:14.492 --> 00:17:15.160
Yeah.
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:16.059
Real simple.
00:17:18.725 --> 00:17:21.160
I am simple, simple things to say.
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:22.192
They're hard things to do.
00:17:22.192 --> 00:17:28.393
I was about to say, I'm going to need to write those down, and the next time someone screaming at me, I will pull this out.
00:17:29.992 --> 00:17:31.460
You know, conflict doesn't need a hero, though.
00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:32.660
It just needs a process.
00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:33.559
It needs a framework.
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.625
I, I agree with this.
00:17:36.625 --> 00:17:37.725
Yes yes, yes.
00:17:37.725 --> 00:17:38.625
So let's transition.
00:17:38.625 --> 00:17:41.725
I mean, you you often look at things through the lens of systems.
00:17:41.725 --> 00:17:45.393
So just a little bit just a tiny tiny bit.
00:17:45.393 --> 00:17:48.492
I make things in an alphabet that makes it easy to understand.
00:17:48.492 --> 00:17:50.225
You tell them how to do the thing.
00:17:50.225 --> 00:17:51.593
It works really well.
00:17:51.593 --> 00:17:58.026
How can business owners tell the difference between a personality clash and a systemic failure?
00:17:58.026 --> 00:18:06.893
To me, it's so funny because you see so many of the problems after they've already happened and you're trying to address them there.
00:18:06.893 --> 00:18:14.859
Um, for me, it's trying to address it before, in so many cases, before it's a conflict and prevention is so much better.
00:18:14.859 --> 00:18:15.326
Yes.
00:18:15.326 --> 00:18:16.225
Just prevent it.
00:18:16.225 --> 00:18:18.259
Um, I feel like Smokey the Bear.
00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:20.559
We need to put up a Smokey the Bear thing here.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.259
Only you can prevent conflict.
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:25.559
That's probably.
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:26.559
If it's all on me.
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:26.826
It's.
00:18:26.826 --> 00:18:27.893
It's not on you.
00:18:27.893 --> 00:18:29.160
It shouldn't be.
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.059
It definitely should not be.
00:18:31.059 --> 00:18:33.026
Many grenades as I enjoy throwing.
00:18:33.026 --> 00:18:37.692
Um, that being said, I mean, to me, the biggest one is the overlap.
00:18:37.692 --> 00:18:42.492
I mean, when you've got job overlap, two people have vague job descriptions.
00:18:42.492 --> 00:18:46.059
Um, and the problem is, it always goes to extremes.
00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:47.726
I know you've seen this either.
00:18:47.726 --> 00:18:49.093
No one's going to touch it.
00:18:49.093 --> 00:18:49.492
Yes.
00:18:49.492 --> 00:18:51.059
Or everyone's going to touch it.
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:51.793
Yes.
00:18:51.793 --> 00:18:53.960
Um, there's there's not.
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.593
Uh, I'll do this some of the time, or we'll we'll work on this together.
00:18:57.593 --> 00:19:01.293
No, it's either I want nothing to do with it or it's mine.
00:19:01.293 --> 00:19:02.293
Dammit.
00:19:02.293 --> 00:19:05.160
Um. And that's when you get conflict.
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:06.360
I mean, who wants to?
00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:09.093
And the problem is, is who wants to do it, then?
00:19:09.093 --> 00:19:14.460
And whose fault was it when it's done wrong or done incorrectly or wasn't done at all?
00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:15.059
Yes.
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:17.226
If you don't have that outlined.
00:19:17.226 --> 00:19:21.360
Well, you're just you're just setting yourself up for this conflict.
00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:21.625
Yeah.
00:19:21.625 --> 00:19:24.059
Because if everyone owns it, no one owns it.
00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:26.460
And if no one owns it, everyone gets blamed for it.
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:26.960
Correct.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.960
You've gotta you gotta solve for that circle.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:29.625
Correct.
00:19:29.625 --> 00:19:35.492
So. And to me, it's that always look like if it's if they're already fighting about it.
00:19:35.492 --> 00:19:40.660
Are they fighting because it's a lack of tools time, budget, any one of those things to do the job?
00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:48.625
Um, the other thing that I see with that bad, uh, standard operating procedure is right person, wrong seat.
00:19:48.625 --> 00:19:50.692
We talked about this previously.
00:19:50.692 --> 00:19:53.093
Great salesperson is now the manager.
00:19:53.093 --> 00:19:57.293
No. And maybe that salesperson can't get along with marketing.
00:19:57.293 --> 00:19:58.726
No. Or you never built.
00:19:58.726 --> 00:20:00.460
They they didn't have the communication.
00:20:00.460 --> 00:20:01.860
They didn't have the communication skills.
00:20:01.860 --> 00:20:04.026
They didn't have the leadership skills.
00:20:04.026 --> 00:20:06.093
I mean, I see it in so many cases.
00:20:06.093 --> 00:20:09.660
I remember years ago I was working in a very, very large company.
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:15.660
Uh, we had a call center and all spring Mark.
00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:16.059
It was.
00:20:16.059 --> 00:20:17.226
It was seasonal business.
00:20:17.226 --> 00:20:18.793
So spring and summer.
00:20:18.793 --> 00:20:19.860
Gangbusters.
00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:20.826
Winter time.
00:20:20.826 --> 00:20:21.259
Dead?
00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:22.093
Yeah.
00:20:22.093 --> 00:20:30.393
So all spring marketing is screaming at upper management, going, see, salesmen can't take care of the volume that we're sending them.
00:20:30.393 --> 00:20:31.692
Yes, this is seasonal.
00:20:31.692 --> 00:20:35.393
Then all fall and winter sales is going.
00:20:35.393 --> 00:20:36.726
They can.
00:20:36.726 --> 00:20:38.460
We're sitting here dead.
00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:39.793
We don't have any phone calls.
00:20:39.793 --> 00:20:41.360
Marketing isn't doing their job.
00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:42.026
Mhm.
00:20:42.026 --> 00:20:47.226
And it's like okay well this is kind of a this is kind of seasonal cyclical business guy.
00:20:47.226 --> 00:20:47.593
Correct.
00:20:47.593 --> 00:20:49.093
And no one's willing to talk about it.
00:20:49.093 --> 00:20:52.460
So we had this constant conflict over it.
00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:59.726
Um, the other piece with this is I always like to do the operational pre-mortem.
00:20:59.726 --> 00:21:01.726
So don't wait till it's dead.
00:21:01.726 --> 00:21:04.860
Don't wait until it's a problem.
00:21:04.860 --> 00:21:05.293
Yeah.
00:21:05.293 --> 00:21:06.460
Do it before it's smoking.
00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:08.625
Do it right.
00:21:08.625 --> 00:21:09.192
We'll call this.
00:21:09.192 --> 00:21:10.793
Maybe an exploratory surgery.
00:21:10.793 --> 00:21:11.360
Okay.
00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:14.393
Um, do the exploratory surgery before the person's dead.
00:21:14.393 --> 00:21:15.160
Find the person.
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:15.460
Find.
00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:16.660
Find the problem before the.
00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:17.826
For their deaths.
00:21:17.826 --> 00:21:20.826
Design workflows that are going to minimize those friction points.
00:21:20.826 --> 00:21:21.960
Clear.
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.492
Hand off points when you go through our processes here.
00:21:26.492 --> 00:21:29.425
It's funny in the program that we use, we use asana.
00:21:29.425 --> 00:21:31.393
In a lot of cases, it triggers.
00:21:31.393 --> 00:21:37.625
When one person's done with a task, it automatically opens up the next task for the next person.
00:21:37.625 --> 00:21:40.259
Yes, there's a hand off.
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:48.692
When we've had stuff where things had to be, where it had to be known, where someone was doing one thing and the next they had to wait for the next person.
00:21:48.692 --> 00:21:55.059
Guess what part of that operations was written in that manual?
00:21:55.059 --> 00:21:55.793
Email?
00:21:55.793 --> 00:21:56.793
Next person?
00:21:56.793 --> 00:22:01.093
Yeah, it's never going to happen if you don't do that.
00:22:01.093 --> 00:22:03.860
Um, so yeah, make sure there's those clear handoffs.
00:22:03.860 --> 00:22:08.259
The other thing is, is, like you said, if it's everyone's project, it is no one's project.
00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:09.960
Um, we talked a few weeks ago.
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.925
You said your son about group projects?
00:22:13.925 --> 00:22:15.360
Yes.
00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:21.026
And he's like, I don't want to do it because I am doing it because I gave them a chance and they didn't do it.
00:22:58.355 --> 00:22:58.990
They didn't do it.
00:22:58.990 --> 00:23:00.155
He at least gave them a chance.
00:23:00.155 --> 00:23:02.155
He doesn't give anybody a chance.
00:23:02.155 --> 00:23:02.755
Right.
00:23:02.755 --> 00:23:03.289
Right.
00:23:03.289 --> 00:23:04.289
She just does it.
00:23:04.289 --> 00:23:07.389
But then the problem is, is if if they.
00:23:07.389 --> 00:23:11.490
And I doubt that either one of your children would ever get something like that wrong.
00:23:11.490 --> 00:23:13.190
But if they do, all the other kids are going to be pissed.
00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:14.089
Well, you screwed that up.
00:23:14.089 --> 00:23:15.155
Exactly.
00:23:15.155 --> 00:23:15.722
And that's it.
00:23:15.722 --> 00:23:20.455
Or when they ask about participation, because they have to fill out these ethics of like, how much work did you do?
00:23:20.455 --> 00:23:21.990
And Caleb's like I did one hundred percent.
00:23:21.990 --> 00:23:24.389
And these other kids are like, they didn't he didn't let us.
00:23:24.389 --> 00:23:27.289
It's like, okay, how do you work through?
00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:28.123
He didn't let us.
00:23:28.123 --> 00:23:28.889
He didn't let us.
00:23:28.889 --> 00:23:30.990
Well, he's like, I gave you a deadline.
00:23:33.455 --> 00:23:35.755
And that is how we know he's your son.
00:23:35.755 --> 00:23:37.255
Exactly right.
00:23:37.255 --> 00:23:41.455
Something about an apple and not being far from a tree comes to mind.
00:23:41.455 --> 00:23:43.289
Um, the.
00:23:43.289 --> 00:23:48.789
It's that type of thing, though, that I see in so many cases where there's just not assigned, right?
00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:55.355
No. Um, like I said, I talked about that that that experience I had at that automotive place, that seasonal.
00:23:55.355 --> 00:23:55.855
Yeah.
00:23:55.855 --> 00:24:04.690
One goes to the other, the the thing that I see, you're not going to catch all conflict before it happens.
00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:05.389
You can't.
00:24:05.389 --> 00:24:12.289
No, it's not humanly possible as we talked about I hope there's some conflict, especially us as like the marketing things that we do.
00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:12.722
Frictions.
00:24:12.722 --> 00:24:14.522
Great dialogue is great, right?
00:24:14.522 --> 00:24:17.056
We should have different ideas.
00:24:17.056 --> 00:24:20.455
I don't want all my people coming to me saying, yes, sir.
00:24:20.455 --> 00:24:23.455
Um, God, I think there's a problem.
00:24:23.455 --> 00:24:28.190
If they if they do well, and there are some things where conflict is absolutely required.
00:24:28.190 --> 00:24:38.722
I mean, the American military, they specifically have people within their organization that are specifically there to tell them why it's not going to work so that they can work through the problems to be able to innovate.
00:24:38.722 --> 00:24:38.990
They did.
00:24:38.990 --> 00:24:39.355
We did it.
00:24:39.355 --> 00:24:40.522
NASA does the same thing.
00:24:40.522 --> 00:24:41.923
Yep, yep.
00:24:41.923 --> 00:24:47.722
The the problem is, is when so many people when it finally does go sideways.
00:24:47.722 --> 00:24:52.123
So many people handle this poorly.
00:24:53.722 --> 00:24:54.889
Yes.
00:24:54.889 --> 00:25:00.123
Uh, to me, I put a twenty four hour rule on conflict if it's happening between other people.
00:25:00.123 --> 00:25:00.789
Okay.
00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:02.255
Um, tell me about this.
00:25:02.255 --> 00:25:03.955
I have a great story.
00:25:03.955 --> 00:25:10.589
Um, one of the last employers that I worked at, um, I was it was a video company.
00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:10.923
Okay.
00:25:10.923 --> 00:25:16.455
And I was screamed at by another employee.
00:25:16.455 --> 00:25:18.322
Um, approximately the same level.
00:25:18.322 --> 00:25:18.755
Okay.
00:25:18.755 --> 00:25:30.355
Um, just screamed at and berated and told that I will do everything to sabotage your existence here and all sorts of, like, horrific things.
00:25:30.355 --> 00:25:33.123
And I'm like, you were verbally threatened, correct?
00:25:33.123 --> 00:25:39.789
Oh, no. So I send this to, of course, type out this nice lengthy email, send it to my boss and HR.
00:25:39.789 --> 00:25:42.990
Um, um, they ignore it.
00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:43.522
Oh.
00:25:43.522 --> 00:25:44.289
Um.
00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:45.123
fantastic.
00:25:45.123 --> 00:25:46.690
There was a read receipt on it.
00:25:46.690 --> 00:25:48.089
So a hostile work environment.
00:25:48.089 --> 00:25:50.522
Yes, I know they they saw it.
00:25:50.522 --> 00:25:56.556
Um, about a month and a half later, the same thing happens again.
00:25:56.556 --> 00:26:00.990
No, my boss was in the room when it started.
00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:04.190
He walked out of the room as this is going on.
00:26:04.190 --> 00:26:09.556
Oh, no. No, that that was the moment where I said, okay.
00:26:09.556 --> 00:26:11.556
Hey, Josh, it's it's it's time to go.
00:26:11.556 --> 00:26:14.289
You've had you've had your side hustle.
00:26:14.289 --> 00:26:14.589
Yeah.
00:26:14.589 --> 00:26:16.089
Let's turn that into the full time.
00:26:16.089 --> 00:26:19.889
The universe is drop kicking you out of this one hundred percent.
00:26:19.889 --> 00:26:20.455
Wow.
00:26:20.455 --> 00:26:27.589
Um, the thing that I found that was interesting is I was sitting at when I like that Monday, I came back.
00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:28.955
That was a Friday afternoon.
00:26:28.955 --> 00:26:31.722
Okay, Monday I said, here's my two weeks.
00:26:31.722 --> 00:26:32.322
Yeah.
00:26:32.322 --> 00:26:35.322
Um. And were they surprised?
00:26:35.322 --> 00:26:36.123
Yes.
00:26:36.123 --> 00:26:36.855
Really?
00:26:36.855 --> 00:26:37.289
Yes.
00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:38.556
Shocking.
00:26:38.556 --> 00:26:40.123
They totally surprised.
00:26:40.123 --> 00:26:40.855
Shocking.
00:26:40.855 --> 00:26:50.556
Um, the I'm sitting at a table with the CEO, the VP, the person from HR and my boss.
00:26:50.556 --> 00:26:56.089
And the CEO looks at me and he goes, he goes, what?
00:26:56.089 --> 00:26:57.089
What would happen?
00:26:57.089 --> 00:27:01.155
He goes, would you stay if we got rid of this person?
00:27:01.155 --> 00:27:14.123
And I said, um, no. Um, his response was, well, we've moved this person four times and each time they've caused a similar problem.
00:27:16.089 --> 00:27:18.056
Without hesitating, yeah.
00:27:18.056 --> 00:27:21.389
I looked at the CEO and I said, you're the problem.
00:27:21.389 --> 00:27:21.955
Yeah.
00:27:21.955 --> 00:27:23.722
I can't work for you.
00:27:23.722 --> 00:27:26.855
No, because you're tolerating toxic behavior.
00:27:26.855 --> 00:27:29.690
And it was this your classic high performer leaving.
00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:38.190
And it was funny because he said he went into saying, he goes, I don't think you understand what it's like to lead like eighty four people.
00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:39.955
Josh, it doesn't matter.
00:27:39.955 --> 00:27:42.389
And without hesitating.
00:27:42.389 --> 00:27:43.389
Me being me.
00:27:43.389 --> 00:27:46.955
I looked at him and I said, you know what, I don't.
00:27:46.955 --> 00:27:51.490
In my last position, I had one hundred and seventy four people in this room to me.
00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:57.056
I said, I don't care if it was our Columbus office at four fifty eight on a Friday afternoon, and I heard about this.
00:27:57.056 --> 00:28:00.589
No one is leaving there until we have this resolved.
00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:01.655
Yeah, I know.
00:28:01.655 --> 00:28:08.089
But instead, you just wanted to kick the can down the road, and you're hoping that maybe I just let it blow over and it's not a big deal.
00:28:08.089 --> 00:28:09.255
I'll just forget about it.
00:28:09.255 --> 00:28:10.255
Correct.
00:28:10.255 --> 00:28:26.589
So, like, everything that you talked about in that to me, the only thing that, like, I love you, even though I'm not good at talking like a pirate, I will have to remember the R's regulate, relate and resolve.
00:28:26.589 --> 00:28:27.155
Yeah.
00:28:27.155 --> 00:28:32.389
Because that is the one hundred percent spot that they just completely failed.
00:28:32.389 --> 00:28:35.255
And that's why no regulation to me, no resolution.
00:28:35.255 --> 00:28:43.556
I put a the resolution because they weren't yelling at Let anyone know they were perfectly regulated because they're like, there's no problem.
00:28:43.556 --> 00:28:46.355
No, I'm pretty sure there is.
00:28:46.355 --> 00:28:50.056
There there was a very large problem.
00:28:50.056 --> 00:28:51.789
Um, and then, uh, so.
00:28:51.789 --> 00:28:54.589
Yeah, but but to me, it is that twenty four hour rule.
00:28:54.589 --> 00:29:06.089
Like if you hear of conflict in your organization, to me, it's one of those things that it, it doesn't really matter where it's at.
00:29:06.089 --> 00:29:13.322
No. It should be addressed by, I guess I would say the most local, but highest.
00:29:13.322 --> 00:29:13.655
Yes.
00:29:13.655 --> 00:29:15.789
Leader in the organization possible?
00:29:15.789 --> 00:29:16.490
Yes.
00:29:16.490 --> 00:29:19.490
Um, because that is something where it should be.
00:29:19.490 --> 00:29:22.722
First off, we can remove most of the emotion from it.
00:29:22.722 --> 00:29:29.889
At that point, we can remove most of the well, they like this person better than that person or whatever it is.
00:29:29.889 --> 00:29:44.155
No. To me that it should be addressed by the highest available or local person at that point in time, just to show how much you don't tolerate that level of conflict.
00:29:44.155 --> 00:29:44.855
Yes.
00:29:44.855 --> 00:29:47.155
Um, like I said, there should be some conflict.
00:29:47.155 --> 00:29:55.789
We should be able to sit around a table and argue, hey, I want to do this type of ad campaign and you should be able to look at me and be like, nope, not gonna work.
00:29:55.789 --> 00:29:56.322
Why?
00:29:56.322 --> 00:29:56.722
Right.
00:29:56.722 --> 00:29:58.190
I want to do this.
00:29:58.190 --> 00:29:58.389
Yeah.
00:29:58.389 --> 00:30:01.455
Well, okay, we're going to talk about this and we're going to work through this.
00:30:01.455 --> 00:30:04.190
And then at the end of the day, we're going to raise our coffee glasses.
00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:06.155
We're going to clank them together and say cheers.
00:30:06.155 --> 00:30:06.955
Awesome.
00:30:06.955 --> 00:30:08.255
That is great conflict.
00:30:08.255 --> 00:30:13.789
If there's not that type of conflict in my business, I'm like, um, do you even work here?
00:30:13.789 --> 00:30:13.955
Yeah.
00:30:13.955 --> 00:30:15.355
Are we dead?
00:30:15.355 --> 00:30:16.690
Do we work here?
00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:21.255
So, yeah, to me, it's finding that happy medium in there that really works.
00:30:21.255 --> 00:30:22.089
Yeah.
00:30:22.089 --> 00:30:29.889
That all being said, um, what happens that and this is what's going to be interesting.
00:30:29.889 --> 00:30:31.755
I am the guy.
00:30:31.755 --> 00:30:32.289
Yeah.
00:30:32.289 --> 00:30:43.322
I am very much the guy because we're going to talk about what's the difference between the vent and the solve as a red blooded American male.
00:30:43.322 --> 00:30:46.123
If you come to me with a problem, guess what?
00:30:46.123 --> 00:30:48.322
I am solving that right now.
00:30:50.589 --> 00:30:52.889
Yeah, we already know my take on this.
00:30:52.889 --> 00:30:53.755
What's your take on it?
00:30:53.755 --> 00:30:57.123
Well, as a type A who likes to solve everything too.
00:30:57.123 --> 00:30:59.190
It's just I had to learn this as well.
00:30:59.190 --> 00:31:01.923
So the difference between venting and solving.
00:31:01.923 --> 00:31:02.855
Right?
00:31:02.855 --> 00:31:05.322
So venting has a place, but it's temporary.
00:31:05.322 --> 00:31:05.789
Yeah.
00:31:05.789 --> 00:31:09.955
So leaders have to know when listening turns into enabling.
00:31:09.955 --> 00:31:11.355
And it's a fine line.
00:31:11.355 --> 00:31:15.490
But once it turns it's like I don't know it's like yogurt.
00:31:15.490 --> 00:31:16.923
It's like, don't do it.
00:31:16.923 --> 00:31:19.755
Um, don't, don't.
00:31:19.755 --> 00:31:20.722
It's like yogurt.
00:31:20.722 --> 00:31:25.955
So you have to be able to discern between do you just want to talk or do you want to solve.
00:31:25.955 --> 00:31:27.490
And so that's that's also a question.
00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:34.990
So I usually tell managers or individuals when we're training on how to have constructive dialogue, you know you listen first to regulate.
00:31:36.222 --> 00:31:36.722
And you.
00:31:36.722 --> 00:31:38.822
Then you ask, what would resolution look like?
00:31:38.822 --> 00:31:42.255
When I say listen first, I mean you have we've talked about this.
00:31:42.255 --> 00:31:44.289
Take notes if you need to.
00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:49.123
If you're not a good active listener, count to three quietly in your head.
00:31:49.123 --> 00:31:50.289
Don't do it out loud.
00:31:50.289 --> 00:31:51.222
One, two three.
00:31:51.222 --> 00:31:51.822
Are you done?
00:31:51.822 --> 00:31:53.222
Don't do that.
00:31:53.222 --> 00:31:55.289
Count in your head.
00:31:55.289 --> 00:31:55.990
Are you done?
00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:56.123
Like.
00:31:56.123 --> 00:31:59.222
And then say, okay, well, let's I hear you.
00:31:59.222 --> 00:32:00.655
What do you think resolution looks like?
00:32:00.655 --> 00:32:02.455
So having that conversation.
00:32:02.455 --> 00:32:08.789
And here's what I will tell you to because there are some people, there are chronic complainers, there are chronic venters.
00:32:08.789 --> 00:32:16.255
So if someone is venting every week about the same issue without any movement, that's not emotional processing, that's avoidance.
00:32:16.255 --> 00:32:18.623
And we're allowing that person to avoid an issue.
00:32:18.623 --> 00:32:22.722
And leaders have to be able to gently shift that conversation towards action.
00:32:22.722 --> 00:32:25.355
You can listen first and then you can resolve later.
00:32:25.355 --> 00:32:34.289
And this is really, I think, where fractional HR, having someone in the coaching space can help you with momentum as an organization and as a leader.
00:32:34.289 --> 00:32:41.322
Because if you come to us and you're like, well, this person's complaining about this, and then we talk about it the next month and you're like, yeah, well, we're dealing with it.
00:32:41.322 --> 00:32:43.255
And we're like, hold on a second.
00:32:43.255 --> 00:32:47.923
You've talked about this for the last two months, or you've talked about this for the last six months.
00:32:47.923 --> 00:32:53.355
George has been complaining about Bob and this issue for the last six months.
00:32:53.355 --> 00:32:55.289
What are we going to do to resolve it?
00:32:55.289 --> 00:32:57.789
They're like, oh, I don't know.
00:32:57.789 --> 00:32:59.423
I'm like, no, we're going to talk about it.
00:32:59.423 --> 00:33:00.355
Let's figure this out.
00:33:00.355 --> 00:33:16.490
It's funny you say that because the the game changer for me was the question when someone would come to me and say, this is going on, this is going on, this is going on, I initially immediately would go into Mr.
00:33:16.490 --> 00:33:17.255
Fixit mode.
00:33:17.255 --> 00:33:17.990
Yes.
00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:20.556
Because to me, everything is a mechanical problem.
00:33:20.556 --> 00:33:21.255
Yes.
00:33:21.255 --> 00:33:23.690
Um. It's just how my brain works.
00:33:23.690 --> 00:33:24.089
It's.
00:33:24.089 --> 00:33:26.855
It's a leaky faucet that just needs something turned.
00:33:26.855 --> 00:33:28.655
It's a nail that needs pounded in.
00:33:28.655 --> 00:33:31.089
It's a whatever that that is the way my brain works.
00:33:31.089 --> 00:33:31.522
Yes.
00:33:31.522 --> 00:33:37.222
When I asked the question, what would you like to see as a resolution?
00:33:37.222 --> 00:33:39.690
That is what finally clued me in.
00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:41.056
That is the way I determined.
00:33:41.056 --> 00:33:44.789
Are they venting or do they want me to solve the problem?
00:33:44.789 --> 00:33:52.355
Yes, because if they give me an if they give me no, I just needed to talk or if they give me an absolutely ridiculous answer.
00:33:52.355 --> 00:33:54.123
I know this is a vent.
00:33:54.123 --> 00:33:54.789
Yes.
00:33:54.789 --> 00:33:58.089
If they say, well, I'd like to see how we could work through this.
00:33:58.089 --> 00:33:59.355
Ah, that's a solve.
00:33:59.355 --> 00:34:00.990
Yes.
00:34:00.990 --> 00:34:06.889
It took me asking that question, though, to to get me to once again for my brain to.
00:34:06.889 --> 00:34:13.023
That is that hard line in my brain that says you're going because once again I can't vent ish solve.
00:34:13.023 --> 00:34:13.690
Mhm.
00:34:13.690 --> 00:34:14.789
Um it's hard.
00:34:14.789 --> 00:34:16.490
I'm going to do one or the other.
00:34:16.490 --> 00:34:16.889
Yes.
00:34:16.889 --> 00:34:22.556
So for me it was that their answer dictates which direction I'm going down that road.
00:34:22.556 --> 00:34:22.923
It does.
00:34:22.923 --> 00:34:28.222
And I would say as you continue to grow as a leader and this is what I mean CEOs deal with we deal with this all the time.
00:34:28.222 --> 00:34:29.822
Business leaders deal with us all the time.
00:34:29.822 --> 00:34:32.222
It is the asking of the question of one or the other.
00:34:32.222 --> 00:34:38.322
But then after you've asked that question and let's say they're like, well, I don't really need anything, I just needed to talk about it.
00:34:38.322 --> 00:34:44.190
You're like, okay, you have to keep mental note of how often is this person coming and talking about this issue?
00:34:44.190 --> 00:34:44.623
Yes.
00:34:44.623 --> 00:34:48.922
And then you come to that conversation of, you know, okay, you've talked about this three times.
00:34:48.922 --> 00:34:50.322
You've talked about this six times.
00:34:50.322 --> 00:34:53.322
You've talked about this every day for the last ten days.
00:34:53.322 --> 00:34:54.322
We need to find a resolution.
00:34:54.322 --> 00:34:58.522
We either need to find a resolution or you need to stop talking about it, or you need to find someone else to talk to about it.
00:34:58.522 --> 00:35:02.722
I mean, so it's that space to of do you want me to listen or do you want me to catch?
00:35:02.722 --> 00:35:10.056
Because as CEOs and business leaders, you are constantly dealing with the framework of how do I solve this for my business?
00:35:10.056 --> 00:35:11.623
How do I solve this for the organization?
00:35:11.623 --> 00:35:16.789
Even when someone's coming to you to just talk, you're always thinking in the back of your head, what does this mean for our business?
00:35:16.789 --> 00:35:17.655
What does this mean?
00:35:17.655 --> 00:35:23.822
So I had to learn, even as a parent of a teenage girl, it's like, do you want me to catch it?
00:35:23.822 --> 00:35:26.355
Do you want me to catch this or do you want me to solve this?
00:35:26.355 --> 00:35:27.022
What do you want?
00:35:27.022 --> 00:35:30.422
Do you want feedback in a plan Or do you just want me to listen?
00:35:30.422 --> 00:35:32.690
And it's the same tools.
00:35:32.690 --> 00:35:37.623
And the things that I use in family and in parenting are very helpful in the business.
00:35:37.623 --> 00:35:44.889
It's funny to me because the way that I, the problem that I have with it is I very quickly jump to I'm not your therapist.
00:35:44.889 --> 00:35:46.789
There are professionals for this.
00:35:46.789 --> 00:35:48.255
Um, yes.
00:35:48.255 --> 00:35:50.822
And it's difficult where tone is important, right?
00:35:50.822 --> 00:35:57.289
It's difficult for me to not show that on my face and just be like, okay, this is for the greater good of this.
00:35:57.289 --> 00:35:57.922
Yes.
00:35:57.922 --> 00:36:05.522
And to go forward, um, what do you think some good takeaways are from this week are what do you I was going to say.
00:36:05.522 --> 00:36:10.089
What do you think some good takeaways are this week.
00:36:10.089 --> 00:36:12.989
So I would say regulate before you resolve.
00:36:12.989 --> 00:36:14.822
So you know conflict feels heated.
00:36:14.822 --> 00:36:16.355
Pause before problem solving.
00:36:16.355 --> 00:36:20.489
Help people calm down their nervous system first so they can actually hear one another.
00:36:20.489 --> 00:36:22.422
It's okay to separate.
00:36:22.422 --> 00:36:24.822
Unregulated conversations don't get resolved.
00:36:24.822 --> 00:36:25.855
They get repeated.
00:36:25.855 --> 00:36:26.689
Yes.
00:36:26.689 --> 00:36:27.222
Agreed.
00:36:27.222 --> 00:36:28.689
And I don't like repetition.
00:36:28.689 --> 00:36:32.022
No. In this situation, repetition is great in sales and marketing.
00:36:32.022 --> 00:36:33.889
It's awful in conflict resolution.
00:36:33.889 --> 00:36:36.055
Let's solve one plus one once.
00:36:36.055 --> 00:36:36.822
Once.
00:36:36.822 --> 00:36:42.922
To me, the next thing I'm going to look at is look at like do an audit of the process to audit the friction.
00:36:42.922 --> 00:36:46.222
If two employees are clashing, look at the sop's.
00:36:46.222 --> 00:36:49.489
Uh, is that what's causing the issue?
00:36:49.489 --> 00:36:57.889
Because in a lot of cases, a couple of words on a piece of paper will really clear up a lot of conflict.
00:36:57.889 --> 00:36:58.789
Absolutely.
00:36:58.789 --> 00:37:08.855
And I would say you talk to not about oh, so you set the clear standard that concerns go directly to the person involved, not through side conversation, slack threads, triangulation.
00:37:08.855 --> 00:37:13.189
Because, you know, conflict grows in the shadows and clarity happens face to face.
00:37:13.189 --> 00:37:15.689
Ooh, look at that.
00:37:15.689 --> 00:37:17.289
Uh, the other one to be defined.
00:37:17.289 --> 00:37:17.489
Done.
00:37:17.489 --> 00:37:19.822
This kind of sticks with that audit, that friction.
00:37:19.822 --> 00:37:25.722
But so many times done to one person's standard is not done to another person's standard.
00:37:25.722 --> 00:37:30.822
I've seen someone come along and repaint what someone else has done and be like, well, they didn't finish it.
00:37:30.822 --> 00:37:32.422
Well, according to them, they finished it.
00:37:32.422 --> 00:37:33.189
But did they?
00:37:33.189 --> 00:37:38.855
So make sure that there's a defined definition of what a finished product project is.
00:37:38.855 --> 00:37:40.422
Yeah, I like that.
00:37:40.422 --> 00:37:43.489
And I would say, you know, model what you want to see.
00:37:43.489 --> 00:37:44.722
Keep doing the things.
00:37:46.422 --> 00:37:47.355
Don't throw grenades.
00:37:47.355 --> 00:37:47.822
Don't throw.
00:37:47.822 --> 00:37:50.955
If you want other people to throw grenades, throw a grenade.
00:37:50.955 --> 00:37:51.922
There are moments.
00:37:51.922 --> 00:37:52.422
It depends.
00:37:52.422 --> 00:37:53.722
Don't do it in your business.
00:37:54.822 --> 00:37:55.455
Just don't.
00:37:55.455 --> 00:37:57.255
It's better not to.
00:37:57.255 --> 00:37:59.822
So much more fun in your marriage, right?
00:37:59.822 --> 00:38:00.722
Or community work.
00:38:00.722 --> 00:38:00.955
Just.
00:38:00.955 --> 00:38:03.122
Just know that everything is more fun.
00:38:03.122 --> 00:38:04.489
Yeah, that is more fun.
00:38:04.489 --> 00:38:09.689
So, uh, should you ever fire someone specifically because they don't get along with the team?
00:38:09.689 --> 00:38:11.822
Even if they're a top performer?
00:38:11.822 --> 00:38:13.122
Yes.
00:38:13.122 --> 00:38:13.489
Oh, yeah.
00:38:13.489 --> 00:38:14.255
Same answer here.
00:38:14.255 --> 00:38:14.822
Hell, yes.
00:38:14.822 --> 00:38:15.455
Yes.
00:38:15.455 --> 00:38:16.522
If. Without a doubt.
00:38:16.522 --> 00:38:16.822
Yeah.
00:38:16.822 --> 00:38:19.855
One toxic high performer can quietly cost you three solid employees.
00:38:19.855 --> 00:38:20.789
I would say it can.
00:38:20.789 --> 00:38:22.522
It can cost you ten.
00:38:22.522 --> 00:38:24.622
It can cost you everything.
00:38:24.622 --> 00:38:28.122
Yeah, that was that one person at at that company that I talked about.
00:38:28.122 --> 00:38:29.922
They and they weren't even a top performer.
00:38:29.922 --> 00:38:30.422
They were.
00:38:30.422 --> 00:38:33.122
They were a middle performer at best.
00:38:33.122 --> 00:38:34.622
And but they were like.
00:38:34.622 --> 00:38:36.289
And that's the reason why I left.
00:38:36.289 --> 00:38:36.689
Yeah.
00:38:36.689 --> 00:38:39.489
Emotional cost outweighs operational efficiency.
00:38:39.489 --> 00:38:40.355
Always.
00:38:40.355 --> 00:38:41.889
Uh, team building.
00:38:41.889 --> 00:38:43.289
Mhm.
00:38:43.289 --> 00:38:45.655
Is that effective for conflict resolution?
00:38:45.655 --> 00:38:47.889
I think we may have different answers here.
00:38:47.889 --> 00:38:48.489
Probably.
00:38:48.489 --> 00:38:51.955
So I would say team building doesn't fix conflict skills do.
00:38:51.955 --> 00:38:55.889
But I mean I think what you're talking about is like, you know, escape rooms, dinners.
00:38:55.889 --> 00:39:04.189
Can we do all those fun things if you don't address the underlying communication and role clarity, you're kind of just decorating your dysfunction.
00:39:04.189 --> 00:39:09.189
But what I will say yes, don't decorate your dysfunction.
00:39:09.189 --> 00:39:13.455
But activities can be good for rapport building and they can be used as reinforced.
00:39:13.455 --> 00:39:17.422
Teachable moments allow you to kind of see what's going on in your organization.
00:39:17.422 --> 00:39:19.822
They're not quick fixes, though.
00:39:19.822 --> 00:39:24.822
What I find is interesting is I hate the term team building things.
00:39:24.822 --> 00:39:25.689
I hate it.
00:39:25.689 --> 00:39:27.489
See, we love it, I hate it.
00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:33.355
Now, what I look at with this is it shouldn't be team building it.
00:39:33.355 --> 00:39:34.989
The teams should be built.
00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:36.589
It's team celebration.
00:39:36.589 --> 00:39:39.355
It's it's it's reinforcement.
00:39:39.355 --> 00:39:41.022
Um, it is the.
00:39:41.022 --> 00:39:43.289
I like the the decoration things.
00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:43.822
Yeah.
00:39:43.822 --> 00:39:50.489
Um, you better like taking people out to an escape room or taking them bowling is not going to make is not.
00:39:50.489 --> 00:39:55.455
I mean, you're more likely to see the fistfight at the bowling alley than you probably are.
00:39:55.455 --> 00:39:56.022
Oh, yeah.
00:39:56.022 --> 00:39:56.655
In the office?
00:39:56.655 --> 00:39:56.989
Yeah.
00:39:56.989 --> 00:39:57.455
So, yeah.
00:39:57.455 --> 00:40:01.689
Don't think that that's don't think, don't think bowling and pizza is going to cure anything.
00:40:01.689 --> 00:40:04.222
You know, I find this fun though, because we just did an escape room as a team.
00:40:04.222 --> 00:40:05.089
It was great.
00:40:05.089 --> 00:40:05.489
Yeah.
00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:07.989
No, we had a great time.
00:40:07.989 --> 00:40:10.822
No one on my team wants to do an escape room with me.
00:40:10.822 --> 00:40:13.455
That sounds like a bad, bad idea.
00:40:13.455 --> 00:40:17.222
But to me, it's that if you do not have your house in order.
00:40:17.222 --> 00:40:18.389
And looking great.
00:40:18.389 --> 00:40:20.389
Oh, no. It.
00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:24.355
The team building exercises are just terrible and I see it in so many cases.
00:40:24.355 --> 00:40:27.355
It's like, hey, people are a little down around the office.
00:40:27.355 --> 00:40:29.355
Let's apply pizza to the problem.
00:40:29.355 --> 00:40:33.155
Yeah, no, no, you have to fix the problems.
00:40:33.155 --> 00:40:35.555
Then pizza will help.
00:40:35.555 --> 00:40:38.789
Yeah, but yeah, pizza pizza's not even a band aid.
00:40:38.789 --> 00:40:43.389
No. What's the one word you should never use in a conflict resolution meeting?
00:40:43.389 --> 00:40:47.555
Um. Good job.
00:40:47.555 --> 00:40:48.589
The one that I use the most.
00:40:48.589 --> 00:40:49.689
Way to self-regulate.
00:40:49.689 --> 00:40:53.222
Uh, to me, it's those.
00:40:53.222 --> 00:40:56.022
Those the the definite terms.
00:40:56.022 --> 00:40:57.489
Yeah, it's the always.
00:40:57.489 --> 00:40:58.689
It's the never.
00:40:58.689 --> 00:41:00.089
It's the it.
00:41:00.089 --> 00:41:03.022
Look, there's wiggle room in so many things here.
00:41:03.022 --> 00:41:04.222
Yeah.
00:41:04.222 --> 00:41:09.089
If if there's an always, by golly, it better be documented.
00:41:09.089 --> 00:41:11.689
Yeah, it it better be in stone.
00:41:11.689 --> 00:41:13.455
No. And it depends as a legal term.
00:41:13.455 --> 00:41:20.955
So just, you know, coach leaders to bring examples, not exaggerations, because you're assaulting people's character when you use always and never.
00:41:20.955 --> 00:41:28.055
I heard one where someone, uh, they fired someone because they said he's always going to the bathroom.
00:41:28.055 --> 00:41:28.755
Okay.
00:41:28.755 --> 00:41:32.622
And I thought literally, that means he is doing nothing else.
00:41:32.622 --> 00:41:38.355
When you say always doing nothing else but walking to the bathroom must be hundreds of miles away.
00:41:38.355 --> 00:41:41.622
If he's always going to the bathroom because he never actually gets there.
00:41:41.622 --> 00:41:50.155
When you use a term like always, and I really hope he doesn't have a reasonable accommodation or a diagnosed issue that requires him to be using the bathroom that you just violated.
00:41:50.155 --> 00:41:50.955
He did.
00:41:50.955 --> 00:41:51.422
Yeah.
00:41:51.422 --> 00:41:52.422
And he won that court case.
00:41:52.422 --> 00:41:53.789
That's expensive.
00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:56.589
It was it was very expensive.
00:41:56.589 --> 00:41:59.855
That all being said, uh, fix the process.
00:41:59.855 --> 00:42:01.022
Save the people.
00:42:01.022 --> 00:42:01.989
Yes.
00:42:01.989 --> 00:42:02.355
Yeah.
00:42:02.355 --> 00:42:03.289
That's the yeah.
00:42:03.289 --> 00:42:16.422
So if you need to fix your processes or you need to just brush up on a little bit, uh, business fix Podcast.com is a fantastic place to do that.
00:42:16.422 --> 00:42:17.822
See, I use that f word instead.
00:42:17.822 --> 00:42:18.289
Nice job.
00:42:18.289 --> 00:42:19.789
Thank you.
00:42:19.789 --> 00:42:22.889
Be sure to follow us on all the social medias.
00:42:22.889 --> 00:42:24.489
Also a review.
00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:25.622
We would love to get a review.
00:42:25.622 --> 00:42:26.889
What do you guys want to hear?
00:42:26.889 --> 00:42:28.389
Reviews, comments all those things.
00:42:28.389 --> 00:42:31.389
Would like to hear it next week.
00:42:31.389 --> 00:42:35.222
What happens when you have the nice leader?
00:42:35.222 --> 00:42:38.555
Oh, I want everyone to love me.
00:42:38.555 --> 00:42:39.355
Correct.
00:42:39.355 --> 00:42:40.255
Can't be mean.
00:42:40.255 --> 00:42:41.189
Correct.
00:42:41.189 --> 00:42:42.222
Correct.
00:42:42.222 --> 00:42:42.822
Yeah.
00:42:42.822 --> 00:42:45.022
That all being said, do us a favor.
00:42:45.022 --> 00:42:46.689
Um. Don't be the nice leader.
00:42:47.689 --> 00:42:49.855
Be the kind leader, but not the nice leader.
00:42:49.855 --> 00:42:52.255
Take care of yourself if you can, take care of someone else too.
00:42:52.255 --> 00:42:55.955
We will see you very, very soon.