Season 1, Episode 11: Selena Pistoresi - Neurodiversity Specialist

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You're listening to the piano pod where we talk to the brightest minds in industry about
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how they're bringing the piano into the 21st century.
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Welcome back to another episode of the piano pod.
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I'm Yukimi Song.
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I'm Clara Zhang.
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And I am Eric Hunter.
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Happy spring and happy April, everyone.
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Hope you're enjoying the season of renewal, rejuvenation, and warmer weather outside.
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There are a lot of reasons to celebrate during this month.
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And one of them is that April is National Autism Awareness Month, which was launched
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in 1970 to promote autism awareness and assure that all affected by autism are able to achieve
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the highest quality of life possible.
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To celebrate this very special month with you and your diversity and inclusion.
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Today we're interviewing Selena Pistorasi from San Jose, California.
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She's a pianist, piano teacher, creator of Notable, and your diverse inclusive specialist.
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So everyone, let's welcome Ms. Selena Pistorasi.
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Welcome.
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Thank you so much for coming.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm really excited to talk to you.
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Yeah, same here.
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Now I found you on Instagram and I happened to stumble upon one of your videos you were
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posting and you were teaching on the video to this young student.
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I believe he has, he's in the autism spectrum according to your post.
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And you were so sweet.
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You were singing a song.
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This little boy was really into music.
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I could tell.
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And then with his mom's assistance, I believe that was his mom and he was raising his arms
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and waving his hand.
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It was just a sweet video you posted.
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So I couldn't help but liking the video and then following your Instagram.
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So thank you so much for coming today.
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Yeah, I'm glad you're in the videos.
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So we have tons of questions today.
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So let's just get into it, right?
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So just to be on the same page for everyone, can you please define the word neurodiversity
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for us?
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What does it mean?
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Yeah, so neurodiversity, which by the way, I didn't make that word up, but neurodiversity
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is the idea that it's simply the diversity of human brains and minds.
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So it's kind of the biological fact that there are infinite variations in cognition and brain
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function in humans.
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So the neurodiversity covers what is referred to as neurotypical brains, as well as a bunch
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of neurological differences that can include autism, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalculia,
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Tourette syndrome, and some others, depending on who you're talking to.
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There's not an official neurodiversity body that tells you what is concluded and what
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is not.
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So it's really just the recognition that the human experience and human brains can manifest
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in so many different ways.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Thank you so much.
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Now, sorry about the horn outside.
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Now, I also am very curious about the terminology, disabilities versus special needs.
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Which is the correct word or is there such a thing?
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Yeah, so first I would say, you know, I think it's important to have compassion for whatever
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terms people are using.
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But I do like to try to let people know about what the disability, what the disabled community
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is asking us to use.
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And so special needs, you'll hear a lot depending on your region.
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It's used a lot in the United States.
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And I think it came from, you know, trying to, it came from a really good place, you
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know, like people with disabilities have dignity and we don't want to see them as disabled.
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But the disabled community is saying, actually disability is very real.
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It's not a dirty word.
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It's just, it's just a fact of life and not saying it actually makes things a lot harder
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for us and further stigmatizes disabilities.
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So I've been using the term disabilities and disabled, you know, people with disabilities
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instead of special needs.
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And it depends on, you know, where you live and who you talk to.
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It's a little tricky as piano teachers, because I find a lot of people are searching for, you
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know, special needs, piano teaching or, or even like parents are, you know, piano teacher
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for special needs.
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And so I think that it'll be a little while to get the ball rolling and get everybody
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on the same page.
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But the majority of the disabled community is asking us to use the term disability.
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Really?
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Wow.
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But I, yes.
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I'll also say that, you know, it does come down to individual preference.
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So if you meet someone who is disabled and they say, I don't want you to say that I'm
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disabled, of course, that's not, you know, so it comes down to that.
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Of course.
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But by using the disability, the word disability, the word itself becomes more inclusive.
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So I think it's a, might be a good thing to use disabilities, that terminology more.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So how many students do you have in your studio right now?
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So for the last five years or so, I've had a running constant of about 50 students.
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Actually just this year, I paired it down to 40 because I'm doing all this other teacher
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training stuff and I just can't do it all.
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So I have about 40 right now.
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Really?
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So, uh, do you have like a wait list?
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I do.
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Yes.
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I have a waiting list and yeah, that's part of the reason why I started training teachers
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because there's so many students and I could never possibly teach them all.
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So, and then you teach all of them private students?
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All of them are one on one.
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Wow.
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Really?
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So how are you doing teaching on zoom or online right now with, uh, students with the, um,
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you know, uh, neurodiversity?
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Yeah.
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Um, I honestly, it's way better than I thought it would be.
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Not, not as in like, it's better than I thought I could do.
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The transition was a little bit hard for everyone, I think just getting used to something new,
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but, um, as long as the parents are there to support a lot of times, um, it's going
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really well.
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I would say some students are even doing better than they were in person.
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So really amazing.
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That's great.
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Now, do you all, do your students have all disabilities?
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Most of them do.
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Um, some of them I, I actually, I don't usually ask for a diagnosis.
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Well, I don't ask for a diagnosis.
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Parents often, you know, bring it up in the beginning, but sometimes they don't and I
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just run with it.
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So I'm not quite sure, you know, the level of a diagnosis with everyone in my studio,
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but most of them, um, do have a disability.
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How did you come to specialize in this, um, population of students?
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Do you have any special training?
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Um, I know you studied piano in college, so.
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Yeah.
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So I studied piano in college.
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I got a degree in music and psychology.
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Um, and actually my late in my junior year of college, I got a job at a nonprofit inclusion
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school in the Bay area.
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And that was my first taste of the world of disabilities and neurodiversity.
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And so the school was really small.
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It was actually brand new when I started working there.
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And so I had the chance to dip my toe in everything and I was doing admin work, but then I had
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also been teaching piano since I was in high school.
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So since 2008, um, and the director was like, you know, music, you teach piano.
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Would you like to develop a music program here?
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And so I did.
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Um, and it was great.
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It was, it was, um, a bunch of different students with different diagnoses and different ages
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all in the same classroom.
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And so I really, you know, got to figure out what works for each student and how to include
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everyone and what's going on and how to level things.
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And that was my main training, I guess, just being in that experience.
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And Selena, can I jump in for a second?
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That just sounds like a huge challenge.
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Like so many of us struggle with just teaching one student with disability, maybe even a
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mild disability.
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How are you able to manage an entire classroom of kids with different levels like that?
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I mean, I will say, I don't even know how classroom teachers do it in general.
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Like I, I am now I'm a private teacher because one-on-one is my thing, but, um, yeah, it
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was, I mean, it was difficult.
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The times.
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Um, but there's so much more that you think you can do, or you can do so much more than
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you think when you take the time to sit down and figure out each student.
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And, um, a lot of times, you know, one activity can be scaled in a bunch of different ways.
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So it's not like I had to reinvent the wheel for every student.
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It was just, you know, we're going to sing this song together.
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You who, you are non-speaking, you're going to answer me on your, with your, you know,
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picture choices or you over there, you're going to participate by moving your body this
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way, you know?
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So it worked out.
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That just sounds terrifying to me.
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You must be so creative, like, especially at the beginning of your career to be faced
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with that kind of challenge.
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I feel like I would have drowned.
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So kudos to you.
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Thank you.
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It was a lot of Pinterest.
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That's very interesting.
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Actually, can I jump in?
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I have a one quick question.
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You know, I, when I first moved to New York and I, I, I, I see, you know, and I, I think
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you're still quite young.
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So that's just like really inspiring.
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When I first came to New York, I was like, I'm going to be a teacher.
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I'm going to be a teacher.
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I'm going to be a teacher.
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I'm going to be a teacher.
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I'm going to be a teacher.
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I'm going to be a teacher, but I'm still quite young, so that's just like really inspiring.
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When I first came to New York, I just came out from teaching at UMass Emmer.
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So I was teaching in college and then all of a sudden I got this full-time gig teaching
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in the middle school and it was like a specialized music school really.
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But I didn't realize I have, I had a couple of students that might have special needs
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or, you know, disability.
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I didn't know.
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I didn't go to school, like middle school, this great school in this country, you know,
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I just came here for college.
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So I remember it was so difficult.
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And then it was like, I didn't know.
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So are all your students, they were private students from the very beginning or?
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In my studio currently, they were all private students.
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But by when you first start teaching in the school, they were in the group as well, right?
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Yeah.
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How did you manage that?
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You know, I will say that it was a very small school.
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I think there were no more than 13 students in a class.
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So I did have a lot of support.
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So there were one-on-one aids with some of the students who needed more support.
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And I did have a lot of support from the director.
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You know, it wasn't just like me in a room with 13 different kids of different ages running
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around.
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So I had the luxury of support, I guess.
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A lot of like, you know, public school teachers with a huge classroom.
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It's a lot harder to give that student the attention they need.
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Were there any like behavior issues?
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You know, I've come to see behavior a little bit differently now, especially.
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But if students, if the environment was, it's not always the environment's fault, but sometimes
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if the environment is over-stimulating for a student or, you know, if the student really
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wanted to do one thing, but everybody else was doing the other thing, there could be,
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there were some behaviors.
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A lot of times it was helpful to have an aid there to help a student get back into a calm
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their nervous system down and get back into a zone where they're ready to learn.
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So there were, I mean, there were behaviors.
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Yeah, there were some hard days, but I don't want to say that's like all on the students
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either, you know, there was a lot.
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Of course.
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Yeah, no, it must be.
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That's amazing.
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Bravo to you.
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Yeah, that's so great.
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Thank you.
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So what are the most common disabilities you encounter in your students?
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Can you describe the characteristics?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So most of my students are autistic.
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And I'll just a little note.
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I love to talk about terminology.
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If you know, just a little note on terminology.
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Some people, if you have any training in, you know, autism or anything like that, you
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might've heard, it's super important to say person with autism or people with autism and
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not say autistic people.
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Again, what we're hearing from the majority of the autistic community, especially the
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adult community is that they would like for us to use identity first language, autistic
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person, because they see autism as part of their identity that they can't be separated
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from.
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So it's like not a disease, like a person with, you know, X disease.
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So I'll say autistic.
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If it makes you cringe, I'm saying it on purpose.
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And then again, it comes, it comes down to individual preference.
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So of course I'd respect whatever people want to use.
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So the majority of my students are autistic.
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And you know, there's a lot of ways to describe autism is considered a developmental disability.
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People with autism have different levels of connectivity in the brain.
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And so, you know, it can come with some areas of weakness.
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It can also come with some huge strengths that I see all the time in piano lessons.
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So one of the, one of the things I see the most challenge wise is dyspraxia.
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So that can also be a part of autism or diagnosed with autism.
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And that is a disorder of like, of movement basically.
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So trouble with fine motor skills or like those little finger movements or those gross
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motor skills, large movements.
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It can also really affect the muscles that you use to coordinate speech.
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So because speech is a motor function.
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So those are the big, big ones that I see a lot.
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So there can also be things like sensory differences.
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So you know, oversensitive to certain stimuli or undersensitive.
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So not always knowing what you're feeling in your body or needing pressure because you
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don't sense the pressure of the atmosphere as well, or trouble with balance, like that
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vestibular sense.
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So but then of course, it's not just like a list of deficits.
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You know, I, a lot of my students also have perfect pitch and are extremely creative.
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Yes.
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It's not part of the characteristics of having to have neurodiversity or I mean, the autism
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to ADHD maybe or?
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Yeah.
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So there is research.
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It's hard to do research on this because of the way that research is currently done.
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So you know, when you test for perfect pitch, you essentially ask people what the note is,
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right?
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Like, and so if, or you ask them to play the same note that you played or something.
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But if you have motor challenges, you can't or speech, you know, you can't answer and
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you can't coordinate your hand to play the right thing.
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So it's a little bit hard to know until students have developed those motor skills, which we
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do in the lessons.
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But I mean, in my experience, so there have been some studies that have found higher rates
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among people with like autistic people and people with ADHD.
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In my experience, almost every autistic student I've ever worked with has perfect pitch.
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So I mean, I won't say that they all do because of course I can't make that.
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But I always assume that they do when I meet a student first, just because I'll teach them
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a little bit differently if I have that in mind.
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Wow.
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That's amazing because I had this impression of especially particularly children with autism,
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they are very sensitive to sound or any sensory things that they're very sensitive.
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So I thought they wouldn't like music, for example, because they're so sensitive.
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But yeah, I mean, I've encountered students who are very sensitive to sound.
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I've actually never encountered a student and I guess piano lessons are self selecting
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for students that like music, but I've never encountered a student who, you know, was their
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sound sensitivity affected their ability to enjoy music.
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So a lot of times it's more like just like the sound itself being, you know, new or scary
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and then also like a little painful.
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So like soft things, you know, playing softly or listening to music that they can control
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and that they know that can that can mitigate that.
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I'm curious about students with ADHD.
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Can you tell us a little bit?
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Have you taught students with ADHD or do you currently have?
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Yes, I have and I do have students with ADHD.
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I'm sure if you're a teacher, you will encounter students with ADHD at some point in your career.
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I think it's like one in five children are now diagnosed with ADHD.
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I feel like a lot of musicians, you know, as musicians, we all have a little bit of
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that, right?
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Yeah.
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So there are some studies that are saying that, you know, musical creative traits can
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be found more in or a little at a higher rate in people with ADHD and autism.
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So yeah, I think that's really interesting.
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I think more research needs to be done into that.
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Not that research is, I mean, in my experience, I believe it, but yeah.
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So I guess if you are a teacher and you encounter students with ADHD, you know, some helpful
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things to know are that there are really brain differences.
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The brains look different.
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There are different, some slightly different chemical things going on in the brain and
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you know, different areas of activity.
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So it's not just like students being lazy or, you know, students being wild.
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So students with ADHD can sometimes have executive functioning challenges.
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That's also with autism.
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So that means that they need support when it comes to breaking things down into smaller
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steps and, you know, knowing like the concept of time, like you have 10 minutes left, that
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might be too abstract.
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Also like the ability to switch between tasks.
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So it can be really like off putting to have to suddenly switch tasks without warning.
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Those are just a couple of the things.
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But again, a lot of times they score higher in divergent thinking, which is how creativity
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is measured in scientific research.
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So like different ways of doing things that other people don't think of because they're
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not limited by this, you know, standard way of thinking.
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So that's why music study can be so amazing for people with ADHD and other forms of neurodiversity.
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Yeah, I used to have, I still do have some students with ADHD or that within that spectrum
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or family tree, I guess.
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And they actually tend to be very creative.
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So if I give them one thing, they can just create 10 different things.
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But it took me some time to discover that I thought, you know, for the first time I
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wasn't aware of maybe he or she doesn't like music because he or she is fidgety and not
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listening or so.
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So as a teacher, what do you think we are?
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How far can we go because I'm not a psychologist.
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I'm not a trained psychologist.
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So but in some ways we can see the difference because we teach different students on a daily
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basis and this child is different, right?
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Overly sensitive or but also has this amazing gift of being creative or perfect pitch or
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maybe other traits and characteristics.
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So what do you think as a piano teacher we can do to help to those families?
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Yeah, so that's a great question.
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The answer is we can do a ton.
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You don't have to be a trained psychologist or, you know, I mean, it's important to be
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flexible as teachers.
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I think that's the most important thing that we could do.
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And so if you see a student who and I've really struggled with this, but if you see a student
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who isn't responding well to the way that you're teaching them.
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So my typical traditional way of teaching is like, you come in, you sit down, we're
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gonna play a song that I tell you to play.
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It's gonna be great.
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We're gonna have a good time.
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But that doesn't work for a lot of students with neurodivergence.
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So it's important to see, okay, if this isn't working, how can I give the student more control
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over what they're learning?
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That's usually a really big part of it is, can I give them options instead of just telling
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them what to do?
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Can I let them lead more of the lesson and then extract from whatever they chose what
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I wanted to teach them today?
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Also is it, is it so important that they follow this exact path or, you know, can I just explore
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their interests and then let that eventually lead them into a path that they'll enjoy?
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I mean, if, if children and humans are not enjoying themselves on some level, then they're
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just not going to learn.
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I mean, they're not going to take that in.
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And so if, you know, if we're getting them to sit still and listen to us and like mechanically
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play what we say, what good is that really doing?
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You know?
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So, um, yeah, I think being flexible is really important.
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And I mean, running with that creativity, you know, I have students that just like to
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make up songs for most of the lesson.
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I don't, it's fine.
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And I find that as you build that relationship, I'm really big on like relationship based
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approaches.
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So as you build that relationship with the student, they will come to trust you more
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and decide that you are a person worthy of their attention.
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Um, plus they'll developmentally get to a place where they're able to pay attention
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longer and longer as they get older.
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But you know, it's up to us to really earn and the students trust and attention and show
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them that.
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Right.
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You know, but yeah, but that approach is something that I had to learn also because I'm coming
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from very traditional background where teacher is the master and then we, uh, we bow down
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and listen to the teacher, whatever he or she says, we have to do that kind of upbringing.
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I was brought up.
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So to reverse that, you know, the student, especially with ADHD, he or she is in charge
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of the lesson and you know, I let them decide what they do, especially, you know, for the
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period of time I have to earn trust from them.
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That is a really learning curb for me as a teacher.
390
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Yeah.
391
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Yeah.
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I mean, me too.
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I came from a very traditional background.
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I still feel that way about my, my teachers.
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Like, you know, I worship the ground they walk on and I will do whatever they say.
396
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And then as a teacher, I still have to, you know, meet my student where they are.
397
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I would say, you know, I don't encourage teachers to just throw their hands up and say, okay,
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whatever you want to do child.
399
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But you know, it's more like a partnership as opposed to like a, you know, one person
400
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up here and one person.
401
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Sure.
402
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More negotiation, right?
403
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Yeah.
404
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Yeah.
405
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But that's something that that was new to me.
406
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Yeah.
407
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Yeah.
408
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It can be a huge relief for teachers when they are able to switch to that mindset because
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you don't have this, like, you don't have to control everything that's going on and you
410
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don't, it's not your responsibility to make them listen to what you're doing.
411
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You can come up together with something that will work for them and then just relieve the
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burden of, of, you know, trying to force things to happen.
413
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Right.
414
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Yeah.
415
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,360
Um, Selena, I have actually two questions for you.
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Um, the first one, just in response to what you were saying, you know, I was having a
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conversation with another friend of mine last week who's also a teacher and we were talking
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about this particular area, teaching kids with ADHD.
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And for me, sometimes, um, compared to teaching a kid without ADHD or without a disability,
420
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it feels almost like I'm teaching a different subject.
421
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And I have a little bit of difficulty with that trans, uh, transition.
422
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Maybe I just need a little bit of validation for you, but because, um, like if you take,
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for example, a student that responds well to traditional training and having like a
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very structured approach where they do the next piece in the book or they've, you know,
425
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follow the syllabus or whatever.
426
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And then you have an ADHD kid where you really have to let them be the leader to like follow
427
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their impulses, you know, within reason.
428
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And maybe they end up writing their own song to me.
429
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,200
It almost feels more like teaching composition or something rather than piano as we traditionally
430
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think of it.
431
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,920
So do you think it'd be helpful to just have a completely different mindset?
432
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,920
Like these are two different things because I feel torn between that sometimes.
433
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,160
Yeah, that's a great point.
434
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,640
I definitely had to get way better at composition and improvising because I didn't know anything
435
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,200
about improvising about, I don't know, 10 years ago.
436
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,440
And I just grew up doing only classical.
437
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So it's pushed me out of my comfort zone as a pianist to be able to support my students
438
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in the way that, and I have some students who are prolific composers, like they're really
439
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,240
good way beyond my level.
440
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I need to pass them along to a composition teacher actually.
441
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:06,960
Um, but yeah, I mean, you could, I don't want to say like, you know, rule out teaching sight
442
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reading and like traditional piano things, but yeah, it can definitely help to have that
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mindset if that's your student's interest.
444
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,240
Yeah.
445
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Yeah.
446
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So the next question for you is ADHD is an area of particular interest to me.
447
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And so I hope I don't offend anybody with this question, but for me, I'm always trying
448
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to figure out, we know there are, there's definitely a genetic component, right?
449
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And like you said, the brain actually looks different, but I'm always trying to figure
450
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out like how much is biological and how much is environmental because certainly in the
451
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way we approach, for instance, giving them some tools to help them, it comes down to
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training them to work with these tools, you know, in order to be able to help themselves
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and become independent.
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And, you know, maybe if they would have had these tools before they came to us or had
455
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just more support in various ways, you know, um, things would have turned out a little
456
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,040
bit differently.
457
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,040
So how do you see that?
458
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Just that division?
459
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,040
Yeah, that's a good question.
460
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Um, I, so it's a little hard to answer because, you know, kids could be in an environment,
461
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,280
you know, outside the piano lesson that makes it hard for the learning to continue.
462
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,280
Exactly.
463
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,920
I will say that, like that parents do the best they can and kids do the best they can
464
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:25,420
and a lot, and so many, like way too many kids have ADHD for it to all be environment.
465
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So you know, it's, it is really like a, a component that's going on like inside them.
466
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,480
And it's, I always assume and like, you know, innocent until proven guilty kind of thing.
467
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,740
I assume that this is an issue that I can support the student within the lesson and
468
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I'll try my best to get parents on board.
469
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Of course, like, and they usually are, of course, you probably run into situations where
470
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,100
you feel like the things that the parents are doing at home is just counter to what
471
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you're doing in class.
472
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,440
Right.
473
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:59,100
Um, but, but yeah, I mean, I think it's helpful to know also that the way that we grew up
474
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:04,280
with both piano and probably parenting and like environment, people have often expected
475
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,480
things of us that we're not developmentally ready for.
476
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,060
And we often expect that of students too.
477
00:27:11,060 --> 00:27:14,760
And so there's more and more research coming out now that there's this like expectation
478
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,600
gap between what kids can do emotion regulation wise and like behavior wise.
479
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,200
There's a gap between what they can do and what we, what they, what we think they can
480
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,200
do.
481
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,360
So, and it depends on the kid.
482
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,120
There's different, you know, milestones, like average ages that they can do certain things,
483
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,840
but you know, some students take a long time to develop that ability to like control what
484
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,140
themselves.
485
00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:41,880
And so, you know, you could have a 12 year old student with ADHD who hasn't gotten to
486
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,840
that part where they're able to name like that abstract thinking.
487
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,960
They're able to name what's going on inside them and tell it to other people.
488
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,760
So it's helpful to keep in mind.
489
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,240
I mean, we could do a whole podcast on that, like just, just recognizing, but I think it's
490
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,800
important to keep in mind, like developmental stages and, and know, you know, the student
491
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,920
really might not be capable of doing what I'm asking them to do.
492
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,280
If it's this like thing that keeps coming up over and over again, and you're like butting
493
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,680
heads, then it's probably really a matter of something that's going on inside them.
494
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:11,680
Right, right.
495
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,680
Yeah.
496
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,000
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
497
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,200
I mean, I have a three and a half year old and an almost six year old myself.
498
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,520
And, and I've had to learn kind of the hard way that a lot of times when they're having
499
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:28,900
a meltdown, it's because of me, you know, I did not recognize how they were feeling,
500
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:31,280
what was going on in their heads.
501
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,200
And you know, I squeezed them too hard.
502
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,360
I asked them for something they weren't ready for.
503
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:36,560
They'd already been having a rough day.
504
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,600
I didn't realize it until now, you know.
505
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,600
Yes.
506
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,600
Yeah.
507
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,600
I mean, it's very tricky.
508
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,600
It is.
509
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,160
And that's such a great realization to have in, in teaching and in parenting.
510
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:54,640
But I, I will say I had, my students used to have way more meltdowns than they do now.
511
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,720
And I think that's because of experience, not, not necessarily experience.
512
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,920
Like if I had made this mindset switch my first year of teaching, then maybe I could
513
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,320
have avoided all those meltdowns.
514
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,000
But yeah, a lot of times it's because I'm pushing too hard.
515
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,000
It's my fault.
516
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,760
Um, and I think that's a good thing for teachers to know if you're able to stomach that little
517
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,760
ego hit.
518
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,760
I'm guilty of that.
519
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:14,760
Yeah.
520
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,760
As a teacher.
521
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,760
Right.
522
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:25,000
Well, yeah, yeah, no, related to this though, we have oppositional defiant disorder, right?
523
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,440
Which frequently is found with ADHD.
524
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,520
And again, I'm, I'm not an expert.
525
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,520
I'm sorry.
526
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,160
I'm just going off the top of my head, but what is opposition?
527
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Let's say just take a kid without disability, like, you know, like I see in my sons.
528
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,160
Okay.
529
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,000
I'm just going to speak from personal experience.
530
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,320
They get oppositional when I'm pushing them too hard.
531
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,760
Now, if this happens repeatedly in a kid's life and they're frequently under a lot of
532
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,960
distress, then it can develop into something where they start to overreact, you know, or
533
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,960
they feel out of control.
534
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:03,160
And so this is what I'm interested in exploring.
535
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:09,120
Like, you know, and again, as teachers, um, how, how we help them with this is to give
536
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,000
them back some of that control.
537
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Right.
538
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,000
So that is kind of environmental and socializing and yeah,
539
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Oppositional defiant disorder.
540
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,040
I hear that being asked about so much in piano teaching circles.
541
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,460
And I think it's important to know that it's a, it's a label.
542
00:30:25,460 --> 00:30:30,520
It's not necessarily a helpful diagnosis because it's just like this student is oppositional.
543
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:31,520
Okay, cool.
544
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,520
What do we do with that?
545
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,400
It's not, you know, and it's also not really like a, its own brain thing.
546
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,000
It's just a description of symptoms.
547
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:44,440
So, um, students with oppositional defiance disorder or with that diagnosis often don't
548
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,080
respond very well to behavior interventions.
549
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,120
Um, like those kind of reinforcers that you might use to increase the desired behavior
550
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:58,680
or consequences to decrease an undesired behavior because they're, like you said, the reason
551
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,680
that they're acting like this is not because of like an intention.
552
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,320
It's because they're, their nervous system is in a state of distress.
553
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,160
So, uh, I mean, there's a really good book that I recommend to everyone who's interested
554
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,160
in this.
555
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,240
It's called beyond behaviors by Mona, Dr. Mona Delahook.
556
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,240
Okay.
557
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,080
It's completely changed my life.
558
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,000
Honestly, it's the kind of book that like keeps me up at night.
559
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,000
It's so good.
560
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,840
Um, but she talks about like, or she, you know, condenses research that's been done
561
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,400
on, um, the nervous system and how our nervous systems are always keeping us that their job
562
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,640
is to keep us alive.
563
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Right.
564
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,640
And generally, and so our right, make us aware of danger.
565
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Yeah.
566
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,760
So, and like from a, you know, evolutionary level, like we're either in the social engagement
567
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,320
mode, which you can think of as like green, the green zone, um, which is what we're doing
568
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,320
right now.
569
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,320
Like we're all not really under threat.
570
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:50,640
We're, we don't perceive it.
571
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,640
We're talking to each other.
572
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:52,640
Everything's fine.
573
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,920
Or we're in fight or flight, fight, fight, flight, freeze, that kind of thing, or sorry,
574
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,640
fight or flight, uh, which is when you might see students with those like big emotions
575
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,160
and they're like lashing out, uh, in some way, or they might be in like what she refers
576
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,200
to as blue, which is like shut down.
577
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,240
So that that's just, you know, hopelessness.
578
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:17,000
That's usually if like red has persisted for so long and nothing has happened that there's
579
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,040
just no hope anymore and you just shut down.
580
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,720
So if you see a student, you can kind of tell as my student green social engagement, you
581
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,320
know, are they, and this isn't labels that we teach the kids.
582
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,320
This is for us to, to notice, are they engaging?
583
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Are they smiling like, or, you know, are they able to listen to what I'm saying or are they
584
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,400
lashing out and they in like this hyped up red zone or are they shutting down if they're
585
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,160
in red or blue, we can't teach them like where nothing is going to go in.
586
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,320
So we need to, that's our responsibility to get them back into this green and you can
587
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,280
do that by, I mean, giving them control is a good one, but also just like engaging in
588
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,280
general.
589
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,880
So what does the student love?
590
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Even if it's not music related, but if a student is like in this starting to get into like
591
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,840
this red zone in your lesson, you know, it's time to like stop what you're doing and you
592
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,820
know, just pull up a YouTube video of their favorite song or something that just will
593
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:11,520
get them back into this zone.
594
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Yeah.
595
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,340
And this applies really to all students, not just students with disabilities, right?
596
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:19,080
This is something I'm still learning, still working on.
597
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,080
Yeah.
598
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,560
That reminds me, you know, sometimes some teachers and psychologists use this kind of
599
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,880
emotional regulation chart where you have the red, blue, green, yellow, and you ask
600
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,560
the student at the beginning of the session, okay, where are you today?
601
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:34,880
Are you familiar with that?
602
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:35,880
Yeah.
603
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,480
So, so many, and that can be a really helpful tool for those students that have gotten to
604
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,800
that developmental stage and that are able to name what's going on inside them and tell
605
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,800
it to other people.
606
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,800
Right.
607
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,800
So I would say for like the majority of the time that that's used, especially like in,
608
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,680
you know, a kindergarten classroom, kids aren't even doing that yet.
609
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,560
Like they don't, they'll be like, I don't know, green, and they don't really know what's
610
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,560
going on inside them.
611
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,960
So, um, well, I don't want to say don't use them, but just be aware of if your student
612
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,680
or child is capable of, of doing that yet.
613
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:07,680
Right.
614
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,680
Yeah.
615
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,960
So if you try that out and it doesn't seem like they're responding, they're probably
616
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,680
just not developmentally ready.
617
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,680
Yeah.
618
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,720
But once, once they are, they can be really helpful and useful to do that.
619
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:22,360
And especially if you get the student to describe like their zones in their own terms, you know,
620
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,600
like, so when you're feeling like, when you're feeling green, you know, how, how is that
621
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:27,600
for you?
622
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,560
And they might say like, I don't know, cozy with my teddy bear or something like just
623
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,700
having them name that.
624
00:34:32,700 --> 00:34:36,600
And so you can eventually come back to like, how can I get you to feel cozy with your teddy
625
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,280
bear or get them to, yeah.
626
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,280
Right.
627
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,920
Let's get back into the teddy bear zone.
628
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,920
Yeah, exactly.
629
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:49,640
So this is so informational and educational for me, you know, because this is to, I would
630
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,960
say relatively a very new subject.
631
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,520
I haven't really had too many students.
632
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:01,000
You know, I can probably count with one hand how many students, but what I'm curious, Selena,
633
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,040
is that have you had any adult students with autism?
634
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,080
I heard earlier, you say that some of them had a perfect pitch.
635
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,000
I would tell you this much, I still have a teacher, you know, across the street.
636
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,600
And he actually had a couple of students that were adults.
637
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,080
I think they were about my age, I would say.
638
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,760
And they both play so peacefully.
639
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,680
And one of them I actually stopped for a while.
640
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:33,120
And we even somewhat became friends, even though, you know, she has autism.
641
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,680
So we are the exact same age.
642
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,320
But you know, sometimes I feel like when I talk to her, I almost feel like we are in
643
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,520
the kindergarten, but like in a really great way, you know, she's just really kind.
644
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,800
And they're really, really musical.
645
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,840
And so that, you know, I was very fortunate to have that experience.
646
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,080
So for me, I guess my question is that, see, I always have this dream that I think we are
647
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:05,720
teaching music to teach the world to be a better or more peaceful place, right?
648
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:12,080
So imagine these, you know, students, young students that have some disability or how
649
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:20,840
would you like, well, first of all, have you had students that are adults that have these,
650
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,840
you know, symptoms?
651
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,500
Yeah, that's a great question.
652
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,280
And I just realized, I think no.
653
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Some of my students are like 18, 19, 20.
654
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,720
I haven't had anyone my age who's autistic.
655
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,080
I've had adult students who, you know, I've noticed maybe what I think to be some traits,
656
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,760
but I like of ADHD or maybe even like on the spectrum.
657
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,840
But I've never had an adult like, you know, older than me on the spectrum, actually.
658
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:47,840
Got it.
659
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,400
And the second part is that all the students, you know, I know you've been teaching for
660
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,400
a while.
661
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:01,560
Like, so you say some of them are already 19, 20, you know, that do they continue with
662
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:02,560
music?
663
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,160
I mean, my goal is always like, I wish like most so far it's been doing okay.
664
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Most of my students, they start with me and they, some of them are in college and they're
665
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,200
still going.
666
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,840
And I have some adult like 80 some years old and they've been playing for 60 some years
667
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:17,840
and they're still going.
668
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,000
And that just melts my heart, right?
669
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,240
Like, but how do you keep on going?
670
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:24,840
You know, it's not easy, right?
671
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,840
I, I see.
672
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,560
Yeah, that's a great question.
673
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,000
I have, I know a lot of other teachers who have had students that have gone on.
674
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,120
I actually just, it turns out that I specialize in working with kids.
675
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,600
So that's why I haven't.
676
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,920
Yeah, I know a lot of other students or teachers who have students with, you know, like autistic
677
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,840
students who have gone on to play in college or even if they like my students, if they
678
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,520
don't play in college, they just keep taking private lessons.
679
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,960
And that's, it's really just comes down to like, if, if they like it, right.
680
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,240
And if they've like, by the time they're 18, 19, 20, you know, it's usually more of an
681
00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,240
independent hobby.
682
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,600
And you know, if they, if as teachers we've done the best we can to instill that like
683
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,800
sense of independence, then yeah, I mean, I, of course they're still with me.
684
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,680
So I would say, yes, they continue, but I'm sure there are some that don't as well.
685
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:11,680
Right.
686
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,760
But I'm sure you're a great teacher.
687
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,200
Once they find you, they probably don't ever want to leave.
688
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,240
You know, it's like, you know, yeah.
689
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:20,800
Do you ever find that?
690
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,920
Yes, I do.
691
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:28,120
And I, yeah, I don't want to say that it's a problem because it's a great problem, but
692
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,880
that's actually why, like, again, one of the reasons why I've started training teachers
693
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080
because I just want more like options for students.
694
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,560
You know, I don't, I'm not going to be around forever.
695
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,600
And I'm not saying I'm the only one that can do this, but like, there are so many students
696
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,840
out there that want teachers.
697
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,360
So yeah, I want to take your class.
698
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,360
Yeah.
699
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,080
Yeah, me too.
700
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,680
Yeah, same.
701
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,800
I have two more questions for you.
702
00:38:52,800 --> 00:39:00,840
So especially as a teacher, you're not just teaching your students.
703
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,960
And I know you're training teachers as well, but sometimes you have to teach the parents.
704
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:07,960
Right.
705
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Yeah.
706
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,760
That's number one thing that I noticed as a piano teacher of young students.
707
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,400
It's not just the students.
708
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:22,880
So do all the parents come to you with their children already diagnosed or what do you
709
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:29,160
do if there is not a clear diagnosis and you discovered something different about this
710
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,160
particular student?
711
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,280
Yeah, that's a great question.
712
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,700
So most of the time they do come to me with a diagnosis or a clear diagnosis.
713
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:41,960
And then if they don't, I've never outright asked about a diagnosis.
714
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,360
If it's something that is really relevant to like piano learning and it's somehow like
715
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,600
something I'm not able to get around, I would say, or if I just think they benefit from
716
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:56,200
support in this area, I'll say something like, Hey, I noticed that, you know, Erica has a
717
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,320
hard time with blah.
718
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,240
And just tell the people, have you noticed that too?
719
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,080
Or have they noticed that in school?
720
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,840
And that is about as far as I'll go as far as asking about a diagnosis.
721
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,640
That's my personal preference.
722
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:14,080
To be honest, I don't really care what the diagnosis is because like even autism, it
723
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,280
can manifest in like infinite ways.
724
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,760
So it doesn't really help me if the student, you know, if the student is a certain way,
725
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,200
then they're just, they are that way.
726
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,320
If they go get a diagnosis, they're still that way.
727
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,720
So sure, you know, but of course I think it is important for them to get a diagnosis if
728
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:30,040
it will help them get support.
729
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,040
Right.
730
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,040
Yeah, exactly.
731
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,000
Not to differentiate them, but to get the help, right help.
732
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,160
Yeah, so I mean, you know, if I, for example, if I think a student is dyslexic, that might
733
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,200
be something that really pertains to like their school.
734
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,920
And so I might say something again, like I, that script I said, I noticed that she really
735
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,480
struggled with, with it.
736
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,760
Have you noticed that anywhere else?
737
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,880
And you know, but there's only so much we can do as, as teachers.
738
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,440
Okay.
739
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:04,020
So what are, last question for me is what are some common misconceptions about students
740
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:05,020
with disabilities?
741
00:41:05,020 --> 00:41:06,020
Yeah.
742
00:41:06,020 --> 00:41:08,200
Oh, I love this question.
743
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:15,720
So my, the biggest one I think is that a misconception is that like the way that a person moves or
744
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:19,600
talks is an accurate indicator of their intelligence.
745
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:20,880
That's a misconception.
746
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:28,200
So again, with motor challenges and speech challenges, we don't know what is really going
747
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,320
on inside their mind.
748
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,480
And so a lot of times, you know, for example, a non-speaking adult autistic student or person
749
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:41,440
they might only be able to say a few words verbally, but that could be because of their
750
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:47,720
motor issues, their dyspraxia, um, and not necessarily, uh, you know, language acquisition
751
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:49,640
or like a language disorder.
752
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:55,440
And it is, it's not, autism is not an intellectual disability.
753
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,520
People can be, they can have an intellectual disability, but it's not that, um, you know,
754
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:01,600
by definition.
755
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,480
And so I think that's something that, that teachers run into a lot is just when, you
756
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,440
know, they meet a student who is, you know, non-speaking or they can't get an accurate
757
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,440
gauge of intelligence.
758
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,920
They'll just kind of assume that this person is like, they are intellectually younger than
759
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:16,920
they are.
760
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,560
I hear that a lot, like intellectual age, but there's really no way for us to know.
761
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:26,980
I mean, unless you spend a lot of time with someone, um, you know, I'm not a speech therapist,
762
00:42:26,980 --> 00:42:31,360
so I don't know like the nuance of figuring out why someone has trouble producing speech,
763
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,120
but I just want to say like, it's, it's not always an intellectual disability.
764
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,160
Um, I honestly, I've come to find that even when a parent told me that a student has an
765
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,240
intellectual disability, I, it wasn't, or it didn't seem like it was after, you know,
766
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,580
the student's motor skills improved and they were able to like, you know, execute what
767
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:50,080
they wanted to execute.
768
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,980
So that's a big one.
769
00:42:51,980 --> 00:42:54,600
So you mentioned training other teachers.
770
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,720
Now you've actually developed a course, right?
771
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:58,280
Yeah, I have.
772
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,080
Could you tell us a little bit about that?
773
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,080
Sure.
774
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,160
So the course is called unfazed because that is what teachers will be after they take it.
775
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,560
And yeah.
776
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,720
Um, so right now it's, it's running right now.
777
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:15,480
Uh, the course is full at the moment, um, but it will become available again around
778
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,240
May or June of 2021.
779
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:23,240
And so teachers can head over to my website, which is notable piano.com and, and check
780
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:24,240
out the course.
781
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:30,240
It is video modules as well as handouts and recordings of trainings that I've done.
782
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:35,200
Um, and depending on, you know, when you, when you find the course, there will probably
783
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,760
be some kind of live component, like a group call, um, either monthly or weekly.
784
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,760
Hmm.
785
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,760
Sounds good.
786
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,440
And so not to give away all your secrets, but can you tell us a little bit about the
787
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,760
content like what topics you cover and.
788
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:48,760
Absolutely.
789
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,760
Yeah.
790
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,660
So we, the first half of the course is really setting the foundation, uh, as far as your
791
00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:56,720
mindset and your understanding of different diagnoses.
792
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:02,360
So we do get into kind of the standard, like definitions of diagnoses and a little bit
793
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,560
of the science of what's going on for certain, you know, disabilities.
794
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:11,920
Um, we talk about a lot about presuming competence and what that means, um, environmental considerations,
795
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,600
like sensory things.
796
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,440
And then we get into the nitty gritty of actually teaching piano, which is, oops, which is,
797
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,520
I'm sure why you're here.
798
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,760
Um, and so different methods, like the method that I've developed, uh, as well as a couple
799
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:31,120
of other ones and, um, there's a whole section on, you know, non method book, but like enrichment
800
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:37,560
activities, ear training, rote teaching, um, all kinds of movement games.
801
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,840
And then we do get into online teaching, lesson planning, assessing a student for the first
802
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,840
time.
803
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,280
Oh, I also just added two new modules, which I'm super excited about.
804
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,280
There's one on challenging behaviors and there's one on what's referred to as autism learning
805
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,720
styles and strengths based teaching.
806
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:54,720
Okay.
807
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:55,720
Great.
808
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,280
Now you've actually written your own method book, right?
809
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,560
You mentioned, okay.
810
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:00,560
What's that like?
811
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
Yeah.
812
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,800
So it's actually based on, um, an approach or like a, a way of presenting information
813
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,440
that I learned from a music therapist in the Bay area named Susan Ranser.
814
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:19,160
Um, but it is a way of teaching note reading to, and, and developing motor skills in students.
815
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,800
It's designed for like autistic students with perfect pitch.
816
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,280
Although I have used it with all kinds of students, including adults, just a great way
817
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,080
of laying out information.
818
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:33,240
Um, but yeah, basically it's, um, starting with letters and not like note symbols.
819
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,120
Um, students do start out in one position, like C position.
820
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,520
And I know that can be like, you know, there's like heated debates on whether that's good
821
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:42,520
or bad.
822
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,320
I typically don't do that with my other students, but when students have motor challenges, it
823
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,920
is good to start in one position so they can start to develop their fingers and then move
824
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:50,920
their hands around.
825
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:51,920
Okay.
826
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,960
Um, so yeah, it's that's what it is.
827
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:54,960
Okay.
828
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,400
Uh, do you have any like tips or tricks that you can give us for some of the teachers listening?
829
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Um, particularly, um, well, teachers who are not trained and are struggling with students
830
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,840
that may or may not have disabilities.
831
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,960
My first tip, and I hope this doesn't sound like a cop out, but my very first tip is presume
832
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,960
competence.
833
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,520
So, um, that can actually go a really long way.
834
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,280
When the student comes in, instead of waiting for them to prove that they understand, they
835
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,480
understand you just assume that they understand you and then talk to them that way.
836
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:26,480
Okay.
837
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,480
They do.
838
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,840
I'm sure they do, especially if you're talking to them in like an age appropriate way with
839
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,440
like with age appropriate songs.
840
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:33,440
So that's the biggest one.
841
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:34,440
Okay.
842
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,440
All right.
843
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,440
Great.
844
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,440
Yeah.
845
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,440
That's actually a really good tip.
846
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,440
Thank you so much.
847
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,200
I'm curious as a young entrepreneur, um, music entrepreneur, I mean, which you are, right?
848
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:50,280
And I noticed you on Instagram, you know, and it just, it's just so impressive.
849
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:51,600
What is your day to day?
850
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Like, like, how do you motivate yourself?
851
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,280
And you know, it's not easy, right?
852
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,280
Yeah.
853
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:03,440
It's honestly the biggest emotional roller coaster is being your own boss all the time.
854
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,440
Right.
855
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,520
Um, but yeah, my, my motivate, or I guess what my day to day looks like, you know, right?
856
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:16,760
I, I know about myself that my, um, my creativity time or my time to create is like, is in the
857
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:17,760
morning.
858
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:18,760
So yeah, you're an early person.
859
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:19,760
Yeah.
860
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,640
I wake up and I do a little movement and then I make things.
861
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,240
So the course or the Instagram content or blogs, that's what I do first thing in the
862
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:30,840
morning and then I teach all day after that.
863
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,640
So I've, I've, if I am slacking off a little bit one day and I do something else in the
864
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,040
morning and I'm like, Oh, I'll save it for later.
865
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,320
I won't do it later or I won't do a good job on it later.
866
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,320
So and then, you know, to stay motivated.
867
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,120
Um, the only thing that works for me is staying very close to my why.
868
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,400
So I just, I'm always keeping that in mind.
869
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,800
My purpose in life is to get more students with disabilities playing piano.
870
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,280
And so however I can do that, um, I mean, there are my own students that I have, but
871
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,320
really the way I can do that is to train other teachers.
872
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:04,960
So I just keep coming back to that.
873
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,540
Like, although I do enjoy making money, I don't make decisions based off of how much
874
00:48:09,540 --> 00:48:10,700
money will I make?
875
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:14,560
It's more like, can I get more students with more teachers?
876
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:15,560
Right.
877
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,840
So that helps me stay really aligned.
878
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:18,840
Wow.
879
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,160
That's just really amazing.
880
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,160
That's really amazing.
881
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,920
What is your favorite part of your job that, you know, after all these years of training
882
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,960
teachers and yourself and students, I mean, it must be very rewarding.
883
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:30,960
Yeah.
884
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,640
So for the teaching side, my favorite part is seeing the, of course, seeing the musical
885
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,520
progression, but also like the non musical progression.
886
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:45,440
Um, a lot of times these students come in and they've never had a hobby before and their
887
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,720
parents aren't even sure if they can learn, um, just because they've been told, you know,
888
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,020
by teachers or other therapists like, oh, this is what they're capable of.
889
00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:56,560
And so I love seeing that like confidence builds that trust builds.
890
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,920
Um, you know, I've had parents come to me and say, oh, they played a song in their talent
891
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,920
show at school.
892
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,200
And now they have a ton of new friends who are really impressed with their piano, you
893
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,200
know?
894
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,200
So that's my favorite part.
895
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,200
That's really great.
896
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,040
Thank you so much.
897
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:19,080
It's time for the infamous, the piano pod rapid fire questions.
898
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,080
This is pure fun.
899
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,080
Are you guys ready?
900
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,640
I am ready as I'm going to be.
901
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,720
We're going to start out with the easy, fun ones.
902
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:27,720
All right.
903
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:32,280
Question number one, what is your comfort food?
904
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,280
Dark chocolate.
905
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,280
Good answer.
906
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,280
Cats or dogs?
907
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,760
Ooh, dogs for sure.
908
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:41,760
But I am a cat.
909
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,760
Okay.
910
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,480
I can't identify with the cat, but I love dogs.
911
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,480
I could see both.
912
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,960
What is your word or words to live by?
913
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,600
Right now it's surrender and abundance.
914
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Wonderful.
915
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,600
Wow.
916
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,600
Okay.
917
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:07,640
What is the most important quality you look for in people?
918
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:08,640
Authenticity.
919
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,120
Good answer.
920
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:15,280
That's the same, same word I chose.
921
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,720
What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?
922
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,160
There's a word for this, but like complaining a lot.
923
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,160
Yeah.
924
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,160
I really care.
925
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:31,840
Name three people who inspire you, living or dead.
926
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,840
Okay.
927
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,840
Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
928
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,840
All right.
929
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:37,840
Good choice.
930
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,280
There is a UFC fighter named Amanda Nunes.
931
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:42,280
She's a fighter.
932
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:43,280
All right.
933
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,240
Yes, I think I'm like her.
934
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:46,240
And Jacob Collier.
935
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:48,640
Do you know who he is?
936
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,680
He's a modern day musician and he's amazing.
937
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,680
You should check him out.
938
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:54,680
We're going to lift him up.
939
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,680
Yes.
940
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:56,680
That's great.
941
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:01,880
Which historic figure or composer do you want to learn or take lessons from if he or
942
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:02,880
she were alive?
943
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,520
That's a good question.
944
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:12,440
I think Chick Corea, he did just pass away, so he counts as a historical figure.
945
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,440
Or can I pick another one?
946
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:15,440
Yeah.
947
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,440
Amy Beach.
948
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,160
She didn't get a chance to teach much when she wanted to, so I would love to take lessons
949
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,160
from her.
950
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,160
I love that choice.
951
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,160
That is great.
952
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,160
Awesome.
953
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:30,720
And which historic figure or composer do you wish to hang out with at the bar if he or
954
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:32,720
she were alive?
955
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:33,720
Chopin.
956
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:38,360
And I would love to just give him a hug and say, thank you for getting me through my teenage
957
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,360
years.
958
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,360
He could probably use the hug.
959
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:42,360
Yeah, sure.
960
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:47,200
If he drinks much, I'm not sure, but he's Polish, so he has to, right?
961
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,200
Yeah.
962
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,120
Selena, what's one piece in your current playlist?
963
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,920
That's a good question.
964
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:59,640
I'm not listening to too much music right now, but I have been listening to a lot of,
965
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,000
I mean Chopin nocturnes when I'm just relaxing.
966
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,880
Great.
967
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,600
What about books you're currently reading?
968
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,640
Name one title.
969
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,600
Right now I'm reading The Power of Now.
970
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,720
Oh, that was a good book.
971
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:13,720
That's a good one.
972
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:14,720
Who's the author again?
973
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:15,720
Eckhart Tolle.
974
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:16,720
Oh yeah.
975
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:18,720
I don't know if that's the last one.
976
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:19,720
Yeah, totally.
977
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:20,720
Yeah, I've read it.
978
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:22,720
This is my third time, but I read it a lot.
979
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:23,720
It's really good.
980
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:24,720
Excellent.
981
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:25,720
All right.
982
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:30,600
You only get one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life.
983
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:35,400
What is it?
984
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:36,400
Probably nothing.
985
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:43,760
But if I had to choose probably a Brahms cello sonata, like maybe number one, E minor.
986
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,760
Love that one.
987
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:45,760
Great.
988
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:46,760
Okay.
989
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,320
So for this last question, we're going to mix up a little bit.
990
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,200
Usually we say fill in the blank, music is blank, but I'll give you a choice.
991
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,800
You can choose either music is blank or neurodiversity is blank.
992
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,520
Okay.
993
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:06,920
How about neurodiversity is very real and beautiful.
994
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:07,920
Wonderful.
995
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:08,920
Wonderful.
996
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:09,920
Beautiful.
997
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:10,920
Thank you so much.
998
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,440
That concludes this episode of the PianoPod.
999
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,800
Thank you, Selena, for joining our show today and sharing your wisdom and expertise.
1000
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,440
And thank you to our audience for tuning in.
1001
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:31,400
We want to remind the listeners and viewers of this episode, NotablePiano.com to inquire
1002
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,640
for her teaching and also for her coaching.
1003
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:42,720
If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform
1004
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:43,720
you use.
1005
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:48,240
If you're watching it from YouTube, please hit the thumbs up button.
1006
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:54,040
There is my thumbs up right here and be sure to subscribe to our channel.
1007
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,440
You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
1008
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,040
The links are in the description below.
1009
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,920
And as always, if you have feedback for us, please leave it in the comments, send us a
1010
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:12,560
DM, or you can email us at the pianopodnyc at gmail.com.
1011
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,040
Hope to see you for the next episode of the PianoPod.
1012
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,040
Bye everyone.
1013
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,040
Bye everybody.
1014
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,040
Thank you so much.
1015
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,040
Thank you, Selena.
1016
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:48,040
Thank you.