When the Flowers Stop Coming: The Truth About Grief Support After the Funeral with Kelly Edmondson

WEBVTT
00:01:15.540 --> 00:01:17.379
Close your eyes and imagine.
00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:24.799
What if the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges.
00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:31.439
Challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be.
00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:37.460
We feel like we've been buried, but what if, like a seed, we've been planted?
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.019
And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree.
00:01:43.099 --> 00:01:45.219
Now, open your eyes.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:47.719
Open your eyes to this way of viewing life.
00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.920
Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature.
00:01:54.020 --> 00:01:58.240
This is Grief to Growth, and I am your host, Brian Smith.
00:02:00.259 --> 00:02:01.800
Hey there, welcome to Grief to Growth.
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:09.900
I'm Brian Smith, and if you're new here, I want to let you know this show exists because I believe that grief, as devastating as it is, doesn't have to be the end of your story.
00:02:10.579 --> 00:02:17.360
Here we explore loss, love, consciousness, and the possibility that the people we've lost aren't as gone as we fear.
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.659
Whether you've been listening for years or this is your first episode, I'm glad you're here.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.180
Today our guest is Kelly Edmondson.
00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:30.180
Kelly is a nurse, she's a shining light mother, and she's a grief counselor who looked at the way our culture handles loss.
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:36.340
The flurry of flowers that arrive in the first week, then silence, and she decided to do something about it.
00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:47.199
And if you don't know what a shining light parent is, helping parents heal, we call parents who have lost children, shining light parents, because we believe our children are shining lights and that we can be also.
00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:48.860
And Kelly certainly is.
00:02:49.540 --> 00:02:55.860
Kelly is the founder of Timely Presence, a year-long grief support service built on the simple but profound truth.
00:02:56.420 --> 00:03:04.180
It's that people who are grieving need you the most, not at the funeral, but on the Tuesday in month seven when everyone else has moved on.
00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:19.819
Drawing from her years as a trauma nurse and her own journey through loss, Kelly created something that didn't exist before, a way for friends and family to show up again and again throughout the first year, delivering meaningful, personalized gifts on the days that hit the hardest.
00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:31.379
In this conversation, we're going to talk about the first year of grief and why it's unlike anything else and why so much of the support we offer is accidentally timed to miss the moments when it needed the most.
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:46.900
Kelly will share what she's learned from the ER and from her own grief about what people are really asking for when they go quiet, why anniversaries and holidays can ambush even the most put-together greever and what it actually means to be present for someone whose world has collapsed.
00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:56.599
So if you've ever wanted to show up for someone you love who is grieving but you didn't know how or you were afraid of saying the wrong thing, this episode was made for you.
00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:04.360
And if you're the one who's grieving and you felt like the world moved on while you were still standing in the wreckage, I think Kelly's work is going to make you feel seen.
00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:10.819
If you'd like to continue this conversation after the episode, head over to grief2growth.substack.com.
00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.280
That's grief2growth.substack.com.
00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:19.879
And there you'll find an article about today's discussion where you can comment and connect with me and with other listeners.
00:04:20.539 --> 00:04:21.800
So with that, let's get started.
00:04:21.939 --> 00:04:23.259
Let's welcome Kelly Edmondson.
00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:24.860
Hi, Brian.
00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.519
Thank you for having me on this show.
00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:34.860
I so appreciate the work that you're doing in this space and intimately understand your passion behind it.
00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:38.539
So I'm grateful to be here and share a little bit of my story.
00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:40.199
Yeah, well, thank you.
00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:43.180
I'm right back at you, fellow Shining Light parent.
00:04:44.039 --> 00:04:46.240
I know that we were talking before we start recording.
00:04:46.819 --> 00:04:49.560
Our children's passing has motivated us.
00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.360
But before we get into all the work that you're doing, tell me about your son.
00:04:53.899 --> 00:04:57.740
Yeah, so my son, my oldest child, Darius.
00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.120
Darius, absolute Shining Light.
00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.139
So he was born on Christmas Day.
00:05:03.139 --> 00:05:04.120
Oh, wow.
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.939
I love to say he was actually a gift from the moment that he got here.
00:05:09.659 --> 00:05:11.680
And we grew up together.
00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:13.019
I had Darius very young.
00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.800
I was 18 when Mike and I had him.
00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:19.960
And, you know, we grew up together.
00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:25.519
And the bond that comes from that really is not able to be replicated, right?
00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:27.519
With my later children, it's just different.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:34.019
And so Darius was just vivacious from the beginning.
00:05:35.119 --> 00:05:43.440
You know, as a, as a young mother, he was born with a benign tumor on his head.
00:05:44.039 --> 00:05:52.440
And they removed it at eight months and he became critically ill from that and was admitted into an ICU.
00:05:52.440 --> 00:06:00.059
And so that was the first time that I really had someone that was close to me on the verge of death.
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:12.159
And, you know, the clinicians were brilliant and he was able to rebound, but that bonded us very uniquely and also inspired me to become a nurse.
00:06:13.200 --> 00:06:18.740
And so the nurses, the care they took of him in the pediatric ICU was unbelievable.
00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:22.580
And so Darius was a rambunctious child.
00:06:22.679 --> 00:06:29.620
He was certainly a rambunctious teenager and settled out as we do as adults.
00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:37.519
And so as a young adult, he was a student and graduate at a college in Columbus, Ohio, Columbus State Community College.
00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:41.100
He graduated from there with a focus on real estate.
00:06:41.799 --> 00:06:55.559
He became an employee of the college and was, you know, really living in history and helping first time homeowners realize that moment of signing the paperwork.
00:06:56.379 --> 00:07:08.679
And on January 3rd of 2023, Darius had spent the day at his, the father's just kind of a post new year celebration.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.220
And my husband and I were on a cruise ship.
00:07:13.419 --> 00:07:17.659
My younger son called me kind of repeatedly, which was odd.
00:07:17.919 --> 00:07:20.620
And when I answered the phone, I knew immediately something was wrong.
00:07:21.919 --> 00:07:24.330
And so he was in charge of my new puppy actually.
00:07:25.299 --> 00:07:27.779
And so I said, Mason, what happened to Zeus?
00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:30.840
And he said, mom, I don't know how to tell you this.
00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:39.159
And I think back on the fact that a 22 year old was charged with delivering the message to me that Darius was dead.
00:07:39.159 --> 00:07:44.960
And so I was at sea with no stop the next day.
00:07:45.919 --> 00:07:55.139
And a son and daughter back home alone in Orlando, Florida, where we had moved to and a child who I could do nothing for.
00:07:55.539 --> 00:08:05.039
And so that really began my journey with grief and child loss, which is just very unique.
00:08:05.799 --> 00:08:07.000
Yeah, it is.
00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.500
And, you know, we all go through different circumstances and they're all unimaginable.
00:08:11.919 --> 00:08:20.299
And I actually have friends whose daughter passed while they were on a cruise and they got that call and couldn't get back for like, you know, it was several days.
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:26.960
So that feeling of helplessness of, you know, you have your other people here at your other children to take care of.
00:08:27.059 --> 00:08:28.639
And you, you can't get home.
00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:30.679
That's just unimaginable.
00:08:30.679 --> 00:08:35.580
It really is just, and it was just after the new year.
00:08:35.779 --> 00:08:40.919
So I was surrounded by people who were having the celebration of their lives.
00:08:41.299 --> 00:08:41.759
Yeah.
00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:44.320
And I was really in this parallel universe.
00:08:44.659 --> 00:08:52.000
And so he had a history of epilepsy and did die peacefully at home in his sleep.
00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.240
But I was literally a world away.
00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:57.200
Yeah.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:58.940
So he had epilepsy.
00:08:59.220 --> 00:09:02.500
Was it, was it controlled or was it managed or was he having seizures?
00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:03.399
Yeah.
00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.879
He still, he got diagnosed his, his the year he graduated from high school.
00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.519
One day the kids called and said, he's acting strange.
00:09:12.379 --> 00:09:18.279
And my younger son said, he's phoning at the mouth call 911 and I'm on my way.
00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:30.860
And so when I got to the, to the hospital, he had neurons that seizures really no known cause but had been controlled off and on.
00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.960
So it had been a 10 year diagnosis for him controlled off and on.
00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:52.559
Interestingly, the year before he, he died, he was driving on a highway in Columbus, Ohio, and actually had a seizure and drove off the highway and landed in an embankment.
00:09:52.938 --> 00:10:00.360
Now my, my ex-husband called me and, you know, I am a trauma ICU nurse by background.
00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:02.179
So I am ready to fly.
00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:06.919
He called back and he said, not a broken bone, no head injury.
00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:09.480
He's fighting the ventilator.
00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.139
This is all in the ED.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.259
I think he's going to be okay.
00:10:14.259 --> 00:10:23.079
And so he had actually escaped, you know, significant harm the year before, but that, that last year was pretty troubled with the seizures.
00:10:24.500 --> 00:10:24.600
Yeah.
00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:30.740
So being a trauma nurse, I assume you've been around, you know, death and stuff.
00:10:30.939 --> 00:10:36.500
How, how do you think that informed you dealing with your own grief of losing, losing someone?
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:38.860
You saw other people go through that.
00:10:39.319 --> 00:10:41.299
How does it impact you when you go through that?
00:10:41.299 --> 00:10:46.740
You know, my first coming out of orientation is a brand new nurse.
00:10:46.959 --> 00:10:49.259
My first Christmas at work.
00:10:49.500 --> 00:10:50.899
I just out of orientation.
00:10:51.139 --> 00:10:53.919
I had a son whose birthday was Christmas day.
00:10:54.079 --> 00:10:54.419
Yeah.
00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.679
And I heard overhead trauma level one in the ER.
00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.199
And so I knew that I was going to be admitting a trauma patient.
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:10.480
When the ER called me, they told me it was an 18 year old, a young man who had driven on black ice.
00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:14.179
And ran into a pole.
00:11:16.059 --> 00:11:19.480
And she said, your job's to keep him alive until his parents get here.
00:11:20.939 --> 00:11:24.259
So I was a 25 year old.
00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:30.360
New nurse and the young man rolled out to the unit.
00:11:30.959 --> 00:11:34.659
And I put my all into doing what I could.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:36.279
So his mother could say goodbye.
00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:40.379
I was tending to him and preparing him.
00:11:40.699 --> 00:11:44.019
And I felt someone behind me and I turned and it was the parents.
00:11:46.299 --> 00:11:48.279
At that moment, he stopped.
00:11:49.319 --> 00:11:51.500
And we all knew that it was a terminal situation.
00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.399
And so, you know, the mother collapsed and, and.
00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:03.559
And lately I understood that my job now was to shift from caring for him to caring for her.
00:12:04.319 --> 00:12:07.000
And so that's what I did.
00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:08.240
I spent the next.
00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:09.439
Hour.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.779
Heading to these parents as a 25 year old who had no concept.
00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:15.459
Of this type of loss.
00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.480
But I felt like that was my calling.
00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:25.439
And so over the years, I really became the person known in the hospitals.
00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:27.279
I worked trauma, ICU, any.
00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:31.779
As the person who was first call for traumas.
00:12:31.779 --> 00:12:37.100
I had a way of caring selflessly for the families.
00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:45.559
And, you know, I had told dozens of families that their child, their spouse, their brother was gone.
00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:49.620
And I felt like I was very skilled at it, right?
00:13:57.710 --> 00:14:03.490
Many clinicians struggle with, it was just something that I felt like I could give them peace.
00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:10.430
And so, you know, I felt like I understood grief and then it happened to me.
00:14:12.730 --> 00:14:26.990
And what I knew was in those initial moments, how someone shares that news with you, how empathic they are, how clear and transparent they are, right?
00:14:27.070 --> 00:14:28.970
Not dancing around words.
00:14:29.690 --> 00:14:31.070
The real, I'm sorry.
00:14:31.370 --> 00:14:32.450
He did not make it.
00:14:32.629 --> 00:14:33.550
You know, those things matter.
00:14:34.409 --> 00:14:35.570
I knew all of those.
00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:40.490
What I didn't understand is what happened when someone walks out of the hospital.
00:14:42.149 --> 00:14:45.210
The grief is so much more than the notification.
00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:48.610
Well, I want to get into that.
00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:52.370
But before we do, let's talk about like, how do we, how do you break the news to someone?
00:14:52.550 --> 00:15:00.930
You gave some examples there when my daughter passed away, when Shana passed away, my daughter Kayla was on vacation and she was with some friends.
00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:05.930
So I had to call at first tell my, my friends that she was with the Shana pass.
00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:09.389
And then I had to tell Kayla and I just had no idea how to do that.
00:15:10.389 --> 00:15:16.610
You know, I think what I've learned through clinical time, and now I've become a grief counselor.
00:15:17.529 --> 00:15:26.870
And so really the psychology around this is that it's important to recognize that someone, you need to know where they are, right?
00:15:27.029 --> 00:15:28.590
So you're making a phone call to someone.
00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:30.529
And sometimes we have to do that in the hospital.
00:15:30.930 --> 00:15:31.169
Right.
00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:32.570
But where are you?
00:15:32.830 --> 00:15:35.450
So driving's not the right time to do that.
00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:35.970
Right.
00:15:36.050 --> 00:15:47.029
So you figure out the context and the environment that someone is in, or you plan that you sit when you are in person with someone, you're able to sit with them.
00:15:48.529 --> 00:15:56.409
You tell them, you prepare them by saying things like, you know, someone, you have to read the cues of people.
00:15:56.509 --> 00:15:58.230
There are people, you can put a hand on the shoulder.
00:15:58.230 --> 00:16:05.129
There are people that you can, and you tell them, I am sorry for the news that I'm going to share with you.
00:16:06.269 --> 00:16:11.350
Belching that begins to prepare them that this is something that they don't want to hear.
00:16:11.789 --> 00:16:11.990
Right.
00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:18.830
But then you have to be honest, you know, words like he's transitioned.
00:16:20.430 --> 00:16:23.490
You know, I'm sorry about the outcome.
00:16:23.649 --> 00:16:24.570
They're not clear enough.
00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:25.090
They're not clear enough.
00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:25.230
They're not clear enough.
00:16:25.230 --> 00:16:28.129
Denial was a very easy place to go.
00:16:29.889 --> 00:16:33.750
And, and, and questioning as a very easy place to go.
00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:37.230
You have to immediately let someone know that.
00:16:37.909 --> 00:16:39.110
Your mom.
00:16:40.029 --> 00:16:41.230
Is no longer here.
00:16:41.450 --> 00:16:43.310
I'm sorry, but your mom died this morning.
00:16:43.810 --> 00:16:44.769
You get all of that.
00:16:44.950 --> 00:16:45.289
We could.
00:16:45.810 --> 00:16:47.870
Certainly we made her comfortable.
00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:52.210
And I understand that this is devastating news, right?
00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:54.070
You also have to couch it with, this is an evening.
00:16:54.649 --> 00:16:54.850
Right.
00:16:55.769 --> 00:16:55.870
Right.
00:16:56.470 --> 00:16:58.950
And then you begin asking people their preference, right?
00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:00.970
Would you like a moment to sit with that?
00:17:01.350 --> 00:17:03.310
And I sit here with you.
00:17:04.569 --> 00:17:06.529
Would you like me to call the chaplain?
00:17:07.409 --> 00:17:09.990
Is there someone else in the family that you would like?
00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:13.970
And the most honorable thing you can do in the hospital setting.
00:17:14.609 --> 00:17:17.450
Is allow someone time and space.
00:17:17.450 --> 00:17:20.789
On uninterrupted with their loved ones.
00:17:20.849 --> 00:17:23.609
I want to allow you time.
00:17:24.230 --> 00:17:26.990
To say goodbye to your mom and the way that you'd like to do that.
00:17:27.210 --> 00:17:27.669
The best.
00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:31.589
But it's time, right?
00:17:31.750 --> 00:17:33.450
You've got to be able to carve the time.
00:17:33.609 --> 00:17:35.329
Hospitals are busy, busy places.
00:17:35.730 --> 00:17:40.169
And you've got to be able to carve the time to have a meaningful discussion with someone.
00:17:41.190 --> 00:17:41.289
Yeah.
00:17:41.589 --> 00:17:41.690
Yeah.
00:17:41.829 --> 00:17:42.430
Thanks for sharing that.
00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:47.649
Cause as I said, it's something that, you know, I never, never dreamed of, never thought about.
00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:49.450
And, you know, I had to do that with Kayla.
00:17:49.569 --> 00:17:59.029
And then I had to do it again with my friend, Mike passed away like a year or so ago and calling up one of, one of our other good friends and telling, you know, telling him.
00:17:59.250 --> 00:18:07.869
So having that, that experience with having to tell my friends about Shana and then having to tell Kayla over the phone, it gave me at least, and I had done it before.
00:18:08.349 --> 00:18:17.549
And for most of us that again, we don't, we don't think about this as something maybe we can kind of prepare ourselves for, for the types of words to use and how to, how to break it to someone.
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.569
So you, you are, you experienced all this trauma.
00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:22.849
You witnessed all this grief.
00:18:23.389 --> 00:18:26.889
What did you learn about grief when you, when you finally got home?
00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:39.889
And, and I guess when you walked away from me, it was walking away from Shana's body in the hospital, you know, when, when they told me, she would pass and then having to make that turn and walk away for that was the moment for me when it really hit.
00:18:40.329 --> 00:18:41.669
What was the moment for you?
00:18:42.450 --> 00:18:42.730
Yeah.
00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:46.409
For me, you know, I think initially it was just shock.
00:18:46.730 --> 00:18:47.509
What do you mean?
00:18:47.909 --> 00:18:48.809
He's, he's deaf.
00:18:49.349 --> 00:18:50.329
What do you mean he's gone?
00:18:51.609 --> 00:18:56.589
And because I was so far away, there was no visual confirmation of that.
00:18:56.829 --> 00:18:56.990
Right.
00:18:58.889 --> 00:19:13.509
For me, when I landed in Ohio to begin preparing for the services and his father called me and said, can you go buy his socks and underwear for the funeral?
00:19:20.169 --> 00:19:25.029
How do you pick the final clothes for your child?
00:19:25.849 --> 00:19:27.649
How do you pick that?
00:19:28.389 --> 00:19:46.188
So that was a defining moment, but the most difficult moment for me and that whole acute phase was, you know, I had an open casket, but I asked for it to be closed during the service.
00:19:47.688 --> 00:19:49.829
And I did not watch them close it.
00:19:51.169 --> 00:19:52.849
I just could not do that.
00:19:53.049 --> 00:20:09.229
But when I left the funeral home, I knew that I would be coming back there in about two weeks because at the funeral, people from Columbus state payment said they were remaining an annual award in his honor.
00:20:09.229 --> 00:20:13.009
I would be coming back to give that award.
00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:17.649
And so I knew I'd be coming back in two weeks.
00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:27.629
And so even though I was leaving, it wasn't final for me because they were still what I recall a celebration of his life that was planned in two weeks.
00:20:27.709 --> 00:20:28.169
Okay.
00:20:28.789 --> 00:20:35.209
That two weeks was late January and there was a snowstorm in Ohio.
00:20:35.209 --> 00:20:47.129
So I flew up and they called and said they were canceling the cert and that for me, that's a date is the most devastating day that I have.
00:20:47.349 --> 00:20:51.549
It was my closure date and I never got it.
00:20:51.750 --> 00:20:56.149
And at that moment, it felt real that he was gone.
00:20:58.409 --> 00:21:07.029
Those moments are just, I just got chills as you were saying that, you know, because there is that moment, you know, where it just, it hit, well, it's not, it's not a moment.
00:21:07.169 --> 00:21:10.329
I guess they're moments, you know, it hits you over and over again.
00:21:10.449 --> 00:21:29.049
Like you said, well, like I was saying earlier, when I left the hospital, I remember the morning of saying the service, I'm driving to go get a shirt to wear to the service, you know, and, and I was with my cousins and stuff and you're like, you're, it's just something that's just so surreal about, you know, doing that, that for your children, because we don't expect to do that.
00:21:31.229 --> 00:21:37.009
And it's, and everyone around, there's just a heaviness in the air too, right?
00:21:37.269 --> 00:21:40.889
Because to your earlier point, the people around you don't know what to say.
00:21:41.429 --> 00:21:41.609
Right.
00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:43.049
Yeah.
00:21:43.689 --> 00:21:56.149
So that, that first year of grief, and I know that what you do, your timely presence is about helping people with that first year of grief, both the people, both the greever and the people who are around the greevers, because we, we don't know what to do.
00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:57.250
We don't know what to say.
00:21:57.250 --> 00:22:03.689
And, and what was your experience like the first few weeks, the first couple of months that timeline of that first year?
00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:03.990
Yeah.
00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:08.229
So, you know, I really just hold up at home.
00:22:08.389 --> 00:22:10.490
I was in the cocoon of my house, right?
00:22:10.709 --> 00:22:16.669
My, my husband and I, I spent, my son spent a fair amount of time with us.
00:22:17.549 --> 00:22:27.029
And, you know, I had a good friend who told me I'm going to release you from the need to answer phone calls.
00:22:28.149 --> 00:22:31.549
And I was able to, to, to, to, you know, respond to texts.
00:22:33.169 --> 00:22:34.829
This is your time.
00:22:37.269 --> 00:22:39.289
And she's pretty bossy.
00:22:39.369 --> 00:22:39.929
It's kind of good.
00:22:39.949 --> 00:22:41.709
Sometimes you have a bossy friend.
00:22:42.349 --> 00:22:42.449
Yeah.
00:22:42.969 --> 00:22:43.069
Yeah.
00:22:44.429 --> 00:22:47.689
And, and she really helped me.
00:22:49.029 --> 00:22:49.929
With that.
00:22:50.029 --> 00:22:52.490
And so I was able to just, just sit.
00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:53.849
And, you know, I had.
00:22:53.849 --> 00:22:57.029
plants that people had purchased around him.
00:22:57.389 --> 00:23:01.709
I will say they died, which is another trauma, but in that moment, they were alive.
00:23:02.549 --> 00:23:02.869
Yeah.
00:23:04.229 --> 00:23:08.949
And so I, you know, I spent time really just with me.
00:23:10.949 --> 00:23:16.789
With me and days I didn't feel like coming out of my room, I just didn't come days.
00:23:16.969 --> 00:23:18.609
I didn't feel like answering the phone.
00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:19.809
I just didn't answer the phone.
00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:25.089
And for me, that wasn't spiraling.
00:23:25.889 --> 00:23:30.289
It was a way for me to heal, because there were moments when I wanted to talk about it.
00:23:30.389 --> 00:23:32.729
And there were moments when I wanted to feel nothing.
00:23:33.229 --> 00:23:39.549
I just want to, I want to look at this wall and feel, feel like I don't owe anyone an explanation.
00:23:39.709 --> 00:23:41.469
I don't have to answer how I am.
00:23:41.769 --> 00:23:43.750
I don't have to explain what happened to him.
00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:45.609
I just want to do nothing.
00:23:45.829 --> 00:23:50.029
And so I had people in my life who gave me the freedom to do that.
00:23:51.250 --> 00:23:53.609
And so I appreciated that.
00:23:54.409 --> 00:24:03.209
As I prepared a few months later to go back to work, two things happened that really set me off.
00:24:04.609 --> 00:24:06.349
One was there was a knock at the door.
00:24:06.809 --> 00:24:16.029
I had a delivery and it was wrapped in all this biohazard tape and just an obscene presentation.
00:24:17.529 --> 00:24:19.229
Those were remaining ashes.
00:24:20.869 --> 00:24:24.029
We had had some jewelry and artwork made from his ashes.
00:24:24.429 --> 00:24:27.389
And they were the remaining ashes that came from the funeral.
00:24:27.869 --> 00:24:29.109
The presentation was terrible.
00:24:29.309 --> 00:24:33.449
It was absolutely terrible.
00:24:33.969 --> 00:24:35.389
We were coming out of COVID.
00:24:35.429 --> 00:24:37.409
I felt like the guy should be a mask.
00:24:37.809 --> 00:24:50.929
And then the second thing was the day I was going back to work, I got a letter from a funeral home, an envelope from a funeral home.
00:24:51.049 --> 00:24:52.250
And I thought they know it.
00:24:52.389 --> 00:24:53.929
They know that I'm going back to work.
00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:57.689
They're just sending words of continued condolences.
00:24:58.149 --> 00:24:58.909
This is so sweet.
00:24:58.909 --> 00:25:03.429
And I opened it and it was his autopsy report.
00:25:05.169 --> 00:25:07.569
No warning.
00:25:07.849 --> 00:25:08.589
There was no right.
00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:10.429
It just the autopsy report.
00:25:10.429 --> 00:25:12.349
Now I'm a nurse, right?
00:25:12.729 --> 00:25:15.969
So I understood everything that was in there.
00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:23.389
It was the most cold clinical experience that I've ever had.
00:25:23.750 --> 00:25:33.149
And I thought to myself, certainly the death care industry should do better than this.
00:25:34.649 --> 00:25:40.909
And so there were events like that that just had me say what we're doing is not enough.
00:25:41.109 --> 00:25:46.289
But the real thing that made me say, I am going to do something different with Mother's Day.
00:25:46.429 --> 00:25:51.750
So five months after his death, his Mother's Day, very much like the cruise.
00:25:52.949 --> 00:25:55.709
I am in this day that will never look the same for me.
00:25:56.949 --> 00:26:03.729
And every commercial you see, every store you go in, it's Happy Mother's Day.
00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:12.809
There's a celebration while you are living in this kind of parallel purgatory.
00:26:15.029 --> 00:26:20.269
And I said, the whole week was dark.
00:26:21.209 --> 00:26:25.869
And then suddenly, my mom, my sister, my niece flew in from Ohio.
00:26:27.189 --> 00:26:36.309
My daughter and my son's girlfriend came over and we spent the weekend celebrating Darius stories about him.
00:26:38.549 --> 00:26:42.269
Reminders about him laughing about things that he did.
00:26:43.349 --> 00:26:47.569
And it made what would starting to be the darkest week ever.
00:26:48.409 --> 00:26:49.889
It added light to that.
00:26:50.129 --> 00:26:56.549
And I thought everyone should have it because the reality is he's not coming back.
00:26:57.069 --> 00:26:58.429
But he's still my son.
00:26:59.449 --> 00:27:00.829
I'm still his mother.
00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:04.250
And this day still should honor our relationship.
00:27:05.129 --> 00:27:10.869
They gave that to me, which is really what was the inspiration for Timely Presence.
00:27:10.869 --> 00:27:11.990
Oh, wow.
00:27:12.769 --> 00:27:16.129
I have to ask you, how do you feel about bereaved Mother's Day?
00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:28.889
So I personally choose to celebrate Mother's Day because I'm still a mom, he's still my child, and that love still lives.
00:27:29.849 --> 00:27:41.549
I feel like, though, how people express their grief, how they express their love, and those relationships that have they've lost or have forever changed can be unique.
00:27:41.949 --> 00:27:46.089
And so I think there's space for bereaved Mother's Day.
00:27:46.769 --> 00:28:09.099
For me, I choose to live on the traditional Mother's Day because my love for him, the relationship we had and the memories I have of that are so vivid that I honor him alongside my other two children.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.139
Yeah, it's interesting because the word bereaved even.
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:17.379
I'm part of Helping Parents Heal, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with the organization.
00:28:18.699 --> 00:28:21.019
But it's an organization for parents who have lost children.
00:28:21.379 --> 00:28:31.059
And I said in the introduction, we call ourselves Shining Light Parents, which was coined by one of our members who's a military person, and she lost her stepdaughter.
00:28:31.979 --> 00:28:36.579
And people that lost children to the military, they call them Gold Star Parents.
00:28:37.219 --> 00:28:39.939
So Shining Light Parents is kind of a thing, a play on that.
00:28:40.399 --> 00:28:49.199
And the word bereaved even, we used to be in our bio, our ethics was bereaved.
00:28:49.879 --> 00:28:52.439
And our founder Elizabeth's like, I don't like the word bereaved.
00:28:52.539 --> 00:28:55.459
And we're like, well, we start off bereaved, but we don't want to stay there.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.679
And we believe in continuing relationship with our kids.
00:28:59.959 --> 00:29:08.219
And when I was hearing you talk about celebrating Mother's Day, I understand the reason why people have that and I understand the carve out and everything.
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.919
But I want to celebrate Father's Day on Father's Day, because I'm still Shayna's father.
00:29:13.399 --> 00:29:19.779
I don't need a special day because the whole thing just brings up another like, oh, another reminder that they're not here with you.
00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.539
And in my my belief, they are still with us just in a different way.
00:29:23.899 --> 00:29:24.500
That's right.
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:25.219
That's right.
00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:31.119
And it makes you a different kind of dad and you're not right.
00:29:31.339 --> 00:29:31.859
You're right.
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:32.319
Right.
00:29:32.699 --> 00:29:32.819
Right.
00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:36.339
I'm still I'm still Shayna and Kayla's father just the same.
00:29:36.659 --> 00:29:38.359
There's no there's no differentiation.
00:29:38.899 --> 00:29:42.719
So again, I don't want to for people that celebrate that that's fine.
00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:45.179
When it comes up on Facebook, I just don't say anything.
00:29:45.639 --> 00:29:46.859
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it.
00:29:46.899 --> 00:29:47.939
You should do whatever you want.
00:29:48.099 --> 00:30:00.179
But for me and for my wife, we're like, we'll just take normal Mother's Day and Father's Day because we want to, you know, I love the name of your movement or your company, Timely Presence.
00:30:00.859 --> 00:30:01.759
It's about presence.
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.379
You know, our kids are still present with us.
00:30:05.199 --> 00:30:11.359
So you go through this first year of grief and you notice some things that you'd like to see done better.
00:30:11.959 --> 00:30:13.119
And so what were those things?
00:30:14.179 --> 00:30:17.979
Yeah, so I think, you know, people don't know what to say.
00:30:17.979 --> 00:30:19.819
So they don't say anything, right?
00:30:19.959 --> 00:30:24.740
So I've turned back to work at this point now, I am a health care executive.
00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:31.399
And so, you know, I come back and there were people who, who said all the right things.
00:30:31.579 --> 00:30:33.639
I am so sorry for your loss.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.539
I don't know what to say.
00:30:36.219 --> 00:30:37.659
But I'm sorry, right?
00:30:37.819 --> 00:30:38.599
Very appropriate.
00:30:39.699 --> 00:30:43.539
And then there's people who did like nothing happened.
00:30:43.539 --> 00:30:44.299
Nothing.
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:44.899
Right.
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:47.919
But you know, I just disappeared for three months.
00:30:50.699 --> 00:30:55.439
And a couple things, A, that's changed my relationship with them.
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:03.139
But B, I began to understand people just don't know what to do.
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:05.019
And so they do nothing.
00:31:06.959 --> 00:31:10.939
Or they think, well, you've been gone for three months.
00:31:10.939 --> 00:31:13.199
So you went through all that.
00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:14.519
You're back now.
00:31:14.979 --> 00:31:15.099
Right?
00:31:15.379 --> 00:31:16.059
Yeah, you're back.
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:16.459
Yeah.
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.079
And so you're ready to go.
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:27.779
And much like Kayla is your father and wherever you go, she's your father.
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.479
Shane is your daughter too, right?
00:31:30.699 --> 00:31:40.199
So you bring both of them into every room that you walk in, every new relationship that you have, every new experience, including work.
00:31:41.439 --> 00:31:49.719
And what I found was people either didn't know how to show up until back away from it, or didn't know that they should show up.
00:31:50.379 --> 00:31:50.479
Yeah.
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:56.539
And both of those things are problems for people who are going through the grief journey.
00:31:57.019 --> 00:32:04.719
Yeah, I want to talk about both sides of this, because this comes up a lot in the work that I did, the awkwardness around grief, we don't know.
00:32:04.819 --> 00:32:07.000
And I tell you, I still don't know what to say.
00:32:07.459 --> 00:32:13.559
I've been doing this, I've been doing this work for six or seven years now, seen the past 10 years, there is no right thing to say.
00:32:14.479 --> 00:32:25.759
And there it is also kind of a landmine, because you feel like you're walking through a field of landmines, because if we say the wrong thing, sometimes the greever will really take offense to it.
00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:29.699
Because I've heard a lot of people in groups say that just really made me angry.
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:33.500
And I'm like, we're all going through something that's new to us.
00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:35.599
We need to give each other, I think, a little bit of grace.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:42.079
But it's helpful if we can tell some people things like things not to say, like, God needed another angel.
00:32:42.979 --> 00:32:45.759
I've never heard anybody say that they found that useful.
00:32:46.639 --> 00:32:46.740
Yeah.
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.339
Or at least he was in a sleep.
00:32:51.639 --> 00:32:56.699
Or, you know, none of those things, or this one, at least you have other children.
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:57.639
Yeah.
00:32:58.599 --> 00:32:58.699
Yeah.
00:33:01.059 --> 00:33:08.279
The other thing that I think people don't realize as offensive is the question about how they died.
00:33:09.159 --> 00:33:09.639
Right.
00:33:11.719 --> 00:33:17.779
And the reality is early in my grief counseling, you know, my grief counselor said, you know, you're welcome to share that, right?
00:33:18.139 --> 00:33:19.459
You're welcome to share that.
00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:21.979
But people die all kinds of ways people die.
00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:33.479
And sometimes it's not that you want to share, but more importantly, there's judgment sometimes attached to that.
00:33:33.659 --> 00:33:36.879
The reality is a change is not my love for them at all.
00:33:37.339 --> 00:33:37.740
Yeah.
00:33:38.139 --> 00:33:38.439
Yeah.
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:47.319
That that is really interesting, too, because Shana passed in her sleep, and it was from something with the heart is all we know.
00:33:47.479 --> 00:33:56.579
And we know she had a her condition called Wolf, Wolf White Parkinson's, which caused because, well, you know, to hit your nurse, but she had, she has that condition.
00:33:56.719 --> 00:33:59.359
We knew about it, but wasn't supposed to be fatal, wasn't dangerous.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:00.419
She wasn't on any medication.
00:34:00.419 --> 00:34:03.219
She had no restrictions, so we weren't expecting her pass.
00:34:03.979 --> 00:34:06.819
But I realized people are looking for an explanation.
00:34:07.419 --> 00:34:11.039
And I think it's kind of like the almost one insurance, like it's not going to happen to them.
00:34:11.619 --> 00:34:11.920
So they were.
00:34:12.139 --> 00:34:20.400
And I'm like, you know, when I tell people I don't know, and I'm comfortable with that, the coroner's report said one thing, her cardiologist said another thing.
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.260
And people are like, did you know, did you dig into it?
00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:25.760
No, because it doesn't matter to me.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.139
It to me, it really doesn't matter.
00:34:28.240 --> 00:34:30.019
I know some people get all caught up in that.
00:34:30.699 --> 00:34:33.659
All I want to know is she was, you know, she didn't suffer, which she didn't.
00:34:33.740 --> 00:34:35.219
I don't need to know anything else.
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:35.880
That's right.
00:34:36.820 --> 00:34:38.039
It's exactly right.
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:40.679
And my son also died in his sleep.
00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:51.099
But you know, over time, I've met people who have lost children and from suicide or have lost children from, you know, many different things.
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:55.980
And the reality is that can be a triggering question.
00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:00.420
But things that are safe are, I don't know what to say, but I'm sorry.
00:35:01.059 --> 00:35:01.320
Yeah.
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:05.179
So easy to not be offended by that.
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:10.320
Or, you know, I can, you know, we're thinking of you.
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:13.420
You know, we're, we're, we're praying for you.
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:15.880
Those things are benign.
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.619
And sometimes they feel like not enough.
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.119
But sometimes it's all you have.
00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:26.820
And I will tell you it's more than many than what many grieving people get at all.
00:35:27.139 --> 00:35:28.260
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.179
And there's so that's the other extreme, right?
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.139
We have people that say things that are flippant.
00:35:32.260 --> 00:35:33.619
They don't really think about how they land.
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:36.360
And then you've got the people who are scared to say anything at all.
00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:43.280
And, you know, I've even had people say, well, I don't want to make you sad, you know, or they'll say something and someone starts crying.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.780
I'm sorry, I made you think about them.
00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:50.059
It's like, you know, I think about them all the time, you know, you're not going to make me think about them.
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:51.500
That's right.
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.980
And if you do recall the memory, thank you.
00:35:54.440 --> 00:36:02.920
Thank you for bringing that someone asked me once, do you feel like your gifts bring bring back the death to someone?
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:08.860
I said, there's not a day I don't know that I that my son's dead not one day.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.539
I cannot forget that.
00:36:11.980 --> 00:36:12.079
Right.
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:21.059
But some it's it's touching to know that that someone else is also thinking of them, which you just don't want your person to be forgotten.
00:36:21.240 --> 00:36:21.800
Right.
00:36:22.420 --> 00:36:22.760
Yeah.
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.679
And I think that's such such such an important point when you really need to drive home with people.
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.940
We don't want our person to be forgotten.
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:31.900
And we certainly don't forget them.
00:36:32.740 --> 00:36:57.660
And, you know, and with timely presence, I know one of the things in my experience, I'll talk to a lot of people experience this is that, okay, for the first six weeks, you know, people are sending casseroles, people are asking if they can do things for you and everything, three months or so, everybody's gone back to their life, you know, and and you do feel like, okay, what, you know, what what's next?
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.720
So tell me how timely presence helps with this.
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.320
Yeah.
00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:09.800
So, you know, there's so much anticipatory grief in that first year, I think, to these events that I say can be triggering, right?
00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:10.740
Yes, yes.
00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:15.640
How am I going to feel on this first father's you don't know I've not lived it.
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:17.720
How am I going to do on her birthday?
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.180
What's Christmas going to be like?
00:37:21.860 --> 00:37:30.800
And, you know, those were really challenging days days for us, my son was born on Christmas, and died on January 3.
00:37:30.820 --> 00:37:35.280
So the entire holiday season for us looks different.
00:37:35.700 --> 00:37:36.539
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:44.200
So what what what we do is we send gifts on those days that are predictable to be more challenging.
00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:57.240
Now, there is certainly truth that you will be walking down the street, and you will see a young woman who looks like your daughter walks like her, laughs like her, and that will be a trigger that will happen at infinitum.
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:59.360
And thank God for those memories of her, right?
00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:00.140
Right.
00:38:00.820 --> 00:38:08.940
But we know that there are certain days that are just more difficult, the first wedding anniversary without your spouse, that first Mother's Day.
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:21.539
And so what we do based on the relationship that that the gift receiver has with the departed, we send a year's worth of gifts on all of those those days.
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:26.539
And so they come at the right time.
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:33.000
You know, I realized that Darius's birthday is next week.
00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:41.860
And, you know, this one time will allow you to hear him on, you know, more difficult days.
00:38:42.220 --> 00:38:52.980
And so it's just been art and science, you know, talking to people, tell me what kinds of memorial gifts you received that added value.
00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:56.019
Let's talk about the days that were difficult.
00:38:56.019 --> 00:39:04.780
And, you know, we spent a lot of time kind of researching that, and then built packages, really based on those relationships.
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.280
So we do one for spouses.
00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:09.900
We do one for parents.
00:39:10.340 --> 00:39:12.760
We do one for friends and family.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.800
So, you know, that's it catches a lot of people.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.099
And then we also do one for a group that's often forgotten.
00:39:19.720 --> 00:39:24.900
And those are families who have lost a child through miscarriage and stillbirth.
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:31.460
Those losses can be devastating and they're under recognized and under appreciated.
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:45.420
And so we have packages that show up on Mother's Day for a mom that gave birth to a stillbirth child to get something on the anniversary of the death because, you know, those are very difficult for people to recall and speak on.
00:39:46.180 --> 00:39:48.840
And we stand in the gap for those families.
00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:54.900
So what's some of the feedback you've got from people who have sent the gifts and people who have received the gifts?
00:39:55.059 --> 00:39:55.260
Yeah.
00:39:55.700 --> 00:39:59.480
So my favorite, the first gift that ever went out was to a mom who had out of stillbirth.
00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:09.960
And her employer actually heard about our business, remembered that we were coming up on the year anniversary and ordered.
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:23.320
And so this woman received the first gift in that package, which is a crystal sun catching on the anniversary of the loss.
00:40:24.579 --> 00:40:29.760
And what she said was, she walked out to her, the darkest day she'd ever had, right?
00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:31.099
Because no one remembers this.
00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:32.280
No one met the baby.
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:33.820
So no one remembers that.
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.000
She walked out to her mailbox.
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:39.900
There was a package with a dub on it.
00:40:42.349 --> 00:40:45.349
She came back in the house, she opened it, she was by her window.
00:40:45.950 --> 00:40:50.410
And on the darkest day that she had, suddenly there were prisms dancing on her wall.
00:40:52.190 --> 00:40:58.849
And she said, she felt like a quote was, God was in the details that day.
00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:03.769
And so that was so affirming.
00:41:03.890 --> 00:41:19.130
But those are the kinds of messages that we received, you know, spouses who say, I received for wedding anniversaries for a woman, we send preserved roses, they're bright red, they're shaking a heart, they live five years.
00:41:20.910 --> 00:41:24.610
And her husband always sent her roses on her anniversary, right?
00:41:24.829 --> 00:41:31.769
And so she received that, she said, it was like Mike was sending me a hug from above.
00:41:33.349 --> 00:41:38.510
You know, all of the feedback from the recipients has been very similar.
00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:44.470
You know, we've had the gift givers reach out and say, I didn't know what to do for my life.
00:41:45.510 --> 00:41:52.650
I didn't know what to do for my employee, or I was I was out of words for my friend.
00:41:53.329 --> 00:41:54.809
Thank you for coming in.
00:41:55.030 --> 00:41:58.930
And then we send a note, obviously, of who it's from.
00:41:58.930 --> 00:42:03.630
But we also send a reminder to the person sending the gift so that they know.
00:42:06.230 --> 00:42:13.090
Brian's go Brian's wedding anniversaries next week so that they can remember to check in because it's not that people don't care.
00:42:14.410 --> 00:42:14.510
Right?
00:42:15.070 --> 00:42:15.190
Right.
00:42:15.769 --> 00:42:17.670
Yeah, it's not that don't care, but we're all busy.
00:42:17.910 --> 00:42:29.570
We have all these different dates to keep in our in our minds and trying to, you know, trying to keep the date of someone else's loss, you know, a year later, it's not an easy thing to do.
00:42:29.930 --> 00:42:42.590
And what it appeals to me about your services that, okay, I still remember the person I care about, I put the effort into it, but then I can kind of set it and forget it as so to speak.
00:42:42.809 --> 00:42:46.289
But I love the reminder also, so I can also do a personal touch, right?
00:42:46.590 --> 00:42:50.410
So maybe a day before or day after, I can give them a call.
00:42:51.789 --> 00:42:54.950
And because that's that's as important as getting the gift.
00:42:55.370 --> 00:43:01.370
But, you know, one of the biggest things in grief is we want to we need our grief to be witnessed.
00:43:01.990 --> 00:43:06.450
We need other people to understand, you know, to have some inkling of what we're going through.
00:43:06.450 --> 00:43:10.410
And those little things like that can just be so uplifting.
00:43:10.510 --> 00:43:19.670
And I love what you talked about with that with the one with the miscarriage, because that's not a date most of us are going to remember, because it's not a birthday, it's kind of a death day, but we don't remember death days.
00:43:20.030 --> 00:43:21.750
So it's it's great to have that reminder.
00:43:22.910 --> 00:43:23.010
Yeah.
00:43:23.490 --> 00:43:31.010
And so unilaterally, the feedback has been it's actually been healing to me.
00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:46.430
And this ongoing journey to be able to deliver to people that the witnessing the reaffirming the presence on days when I think they felt like they were going to be forgotten.
00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:48.970
And it's always it's never the first gift, right?
00:43:49.090 --> 00:43:53.150
The first gift comes right after the funeral when you're getting many things, right?
00:43:53.530 --> 00:43:53.750
Right.
00:43:54.289 --> 00:44:04.450
But it's the second, the third, the fourth, right, that people are overwhelmed by the ongoing commitment to walking with them.
00:44:05.190 --> 00:44:05.289
Yeah.
00:44:06.250 --> 00:44:07.670
So walk me through the process.
00:44:07.670 --> 00:44:12.550
If I'm someone who's signing up for your service to send to someone else, what does it look like for me?
00:44:13.010 --> 00:44:17.210
So it's it's it's we believe we've made it as simple as possible.
00:44:17.870 --> 00:44:29.670
You pick the relationship what you know, and there's a couple of pieces of information we need the name of the person we're memorializing the date of birth, the date of death.
00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:35.550
And then if they were married, we'd love the anniversary.
00:44:35.590 --> 00:44:38.010
If not, we will send things on Valentine's Day.
00:44:38.870 --> 00:44:38.970
Okay.
00:44:39.809 --> 00:44:45.750
If it's a parent child relationship, we automatically calculate Mother's Day and Father's Day, you know, we're able to do that.
00:44:46.230 --> 00:44:58.289
And we ask for one photo because the gift that comes on the anniversary of law, the death day is a beautiful crystal photo keepsake.
00:44:58.870 --> 00:45:04.090
And so we ask for one one photo, which can be uploaded any time during the year.
00:45:04.269 --> 00:45:05.190
So we'll send reminders.
00:45:05.910 --> 00:45:06.010
Okay.
00:45:06.809 --> 00:45:12.809
But those are the pieces of information that we get once we receive that, we take care of the rest.
00:45:13.349 --> 00:45:14.570
So you enroll them.
00:45:14.630 --> 00:45:15.930
It's a one time payment.
00:45:15.930 --> 00:45:18.590
And for a year, you don't have to worry about it.
00:45:18.630 --> 00:45:21.430
And you know that your loved one is being properly cared for.
00:45:21.670 --> 00:45:24.470
Okay, so I don't even have to choose the gifts.
00:45:24.610 --> 00:45:26.470
You've curated the gifts already.
00:45:26.470 --> 00:45:26.930
Okay.
00:45:29.530 --> 00:45:29.890
Yeah.
00:45:30.750 --> 00:45:36.370
Again, it sounds like such a such a needed service for people because again, we don't know what to do.
00:45:36.570 --> 00:45:39.190
My, my wife and I, someone sent us wind chimes.
00:45:39.309 --> 00:45:41.010
I saw you have wind chimes is one of your gifts.
00:45:41.230 --> 00:45:49.550
And it's, and we're like, this is a great, so now every time that someone passes away, we give them wind chimes because we've got them, you know, for her father and for Shana.
00:45:50.190 --> 00:45:52.970
And we sit on our deck and we hear the wind chimes, we think about them.
00:45:53.530 --> 00:45:57.870
So that's, I think that's a really great gift, but the sun catchers, you know, those are great too.
00:45:58.930 --> 00:46:01.769
And again, people, we don't know what to do.
00:46:01.870 --> 00:46:02.829
We don't know what to send.
00:46:03.110 --> 00:46:11.329
And we were looking for things like to, to, we want to care, but we also can't, you know, really keep all these things, you know, in our minds.
00:46:11.610 --> 00:46:15.050
So that one time thing, I think is a great service that you're offering.
00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:18.210
Yeah, it's been healing.
00:46:18.329 --> 00:46:29.690
And it's really been based on both my lived experience and what I've learned about grief, both clinically and through grief counseling, but more importantly, just from talking to people, right?
00:46:31.010 --> 00:46:35.690
The first gift that comes is a wooden, an engraved wooden memory box.
00:46:35.990 --> 00:46:38.110
And why is that your first gift?
00:46:38.329 --> 00:46:40.990
Well, it's when you have all the things, right?
00:46:41.090 --> 00:46:53.309
So your spouse passes away, there are obituary, there's all kinds of documents and photos and things that are around, and it's a beautiful place to keep them stored and protected.
00:46:53.849 --> 00:47:01.410
And it's very practical, but it's a gorgeous gift that can lay out on a coffee table or in a desk.
00:47:02.010 --> 00:47:07.370
None of them are obnoxious and say, this is a, this is a grief gift.
00:47:07.610 --> 00:47:10.730
Yeah, they fit into the decor.
00:47:11.230 --> 00:47:19.970
But I mean, I think through feedback and collaboration, we've been really thoughtful in the things that were selected.
00:47:20.630 --> 00:47:36.470
Well, it's obvious to me, you've done a great job, because as you're talking to some of the gifts, after my daughter passed, a friend of mine took a little wooden box, round wooden box, and she painted the top of it with, you know, my chain of savor color, which is purple, she paid this little scene on it.
00:47:36.950 --> 00:47:37.990
And it's to put in things.
00:47:38.150 --> 00:47:41.769
So I've got feathers in there, I've got dimes in there, you know, things that are fine.
00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:44.150
And I have it on my meditation altar for Shana.
00:47:44.690 --> 00:47:53.410
That's one of the gifts that I remembered, you know, from my friend that, and then like I said, the wind chimes, suncatcher, we've got a couple of suncatchers.
00:47:53.750 --> 00:47:57.090
So those are some of the gifts that have been really meaningful to us.
00:47:57.710 --> 00:47:59.510
And as you said, they're not obnoxious.
00:47:59.910 --> 00:48:05.930
They're just like the one things in my bedroom on my meditation altar, the wind chimes are on my deck, and the suncatcher is in the kitchen.
00:48:06.050 --> 00:48:08.430
I look at those, and I think about Shana.
00:48:08.630 --> 00:48:10.490
So those are great things.
00:48:10.809 --> 00:48:16.910
And people, again, people, we don't know what to send or what words to say, or maybe what dates to choose them.
00:48:17.010 --> 00:48:21.110
You've chosen some very, you know, powerful dates that we can remember.
00:48:21.110 --> 00:48:25.570
It's not just that the anniversary and the birthday, but it is Mother's Day.
00:48:25.870 --> 00:48:31.809
And that first Mother's Day without a child is, I can't speak for Mother's Day, but I can speak for Father's Day.
00:48:32.450 --> 00:48:33.510
It's devastating.
00:48:33.510 --> 00:48:36.769
It devastated the first Christmas, right?
00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:39.130
The holiday season, they look different.
00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:42.630
And it's great.
00:48:42.849 --> 00:48:43.829
So well, thanks, Brian.
00:48:43.990 --> 00:48:53.050
That's been very affirming that through your experience, both as all the work you're doing in grief, but also as a father that these gifts resonate with you.
00:48:54.250 --> 00:48:58.090
It's just continued affirmation that Darius is guiding my steps.
00:48:58.430 --> 00:48:58.990
I know that.
00:48:58.990 --> 00:49:05.390
Yeah, well, you know, as I asked you, tell me about him, and you talked about, you know, how he shaped your life.
00:49:05.670 --> 00:49:09.530
And our children, we think about shaping our children's lives as parents.
00:49:09.849 --> 00:49:12.349
It's like, it's our job to shape them and form them.
00:49:13.309 --> 00:49:19.410
And I'll never forget the first time after my daughter passed, one of my cousins said, well, you know, Shana is your ancestor now.
00:49:19.430 --> 00:49:21.090
And I said, what are you talking about?
00:49:21.190 --> 00:49:24.590
And she goes, yeah, we know when people pass in spirit, they become your ancestors.
00:49:25.590 --> 00:49:28.530
And so, you know, our children are shaping our lives.
00:49:29.590 --> 00:49:39.910
And, you know, we are talking with a client the other day, she's talking about like the legacy, you know, of her son, who was a little bit younger than your son when he passed and a little bit older than my daughter.
00:49:40.590 --> 00:49:47.030
And I said, you know, our children have more legacy than we were like, we don't really have to keep their legacy alive, because they've made an impact while they were here.
00:49:47.349 --> 00:49:51.610
But we get to continue that through the work that we do that's inspired by them.
00:49:52.010 --> 00:49:54.650
So it's a great kind of a full circle thing, I think.
00:49:55.010 --> 00:49:55.910
It really is.
00:49:56.070 --> 00:49:58.390
And it keeps you accountable, right?
00:49:58.910 --> 00:50:02.130
I am helping to carry on.
00:50:02.210 --> 00:50:04.650
He was destined to make an impact in this world.
00:50:04.809 --> 00:50:10.710
And he asked, he's been able to do that, not just with the years that he lived.
00:50:12.490 --> 00:50:14.269
But you know, he's guiding that work.
00:50:14.430 --> 00:50:18.550
And it's an honor to be able to help carry that forward for him.
00:50:18.789 --> 00:50:21.309
And so it's purpose driven every day.
00:50:21.769 --> 00:50:22.610
Yeah, absolutely.
00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:24.150
Well, you know, it's interesting.
00:50:24.309 --> 00:50:33.030
I interviewed a woman, but she was a girl when her brother passed and they were in high school, I think she was a sophomore and he was like a senior.
00:50:33.829 --> 00:50:37.650
And he passed suddenly, and she went on and went into finance and stuff.
00:50:37.769 --> 00:50:39.809
But she really had this, she didn't have a passion for that.
00:50:39.910 --> 00:50:41.349
So she decided to start a jewelry company.
00:50:41.890 --> 00:50:44.849
And now she has a jewelry company that does legacy jewelry.
00:50:45.309 --> 00:50:46.870
And it's named after her brother.
00:50:47.410 --> 00:50:52.530
And she was telling me, I said, what would you think your brother would say to you if he could speak to you right now?
00:50:52.630 --> 00:50:59.530
She goes, he would say, I can't, you never thought you'd still be thinking of me all these years later, because she's like in her, I think late thirties now.
00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:00.930
It's been like 20 years since he passed.
00:51:01.890 --> 00:51:04.670
So our loved ones, they do live on through us.
00:51:04.730 --> 00:51:09.610
And we get to make a choice as to, you know, how we deal with it.
00:51:09.750 --> 00:51:18.789
And I love what you're doing, you know, in terms of, you know, continuing his legacy, carrying on his legacy and doing inspirational work, you know, in his name.
00:51:20.250 --> 00:51:25.349
You also you understand the healing that comes with us, right?
00:51:25.829 --> 00:51:26.130
Yeah.
00:51:27.370 --> 00:51:36.510
And I tell people all the time, I meet people all the time, you know, people, you know, love to hear stories of resilience through grief.
00:51:36.690 --> 00:51:41.730
And so they reach out on social media and through various networks.
00:51:42.150 --> 00:51:50.990
And you know, one of the things that you kind of opened with this, I want people to know that there's still hope on the horizon.
00:51:52.650 --> 00:51:56.490
The future looks different than I had originally planned.
00:51:56.789 --> 00:52:08.809
And, you know, his friends, they're all at the age now, they're used to pictures of them getting married and they're, you know, they're having kids and all these things that he never had the opportunity to do.
00:52:09.130 --> 00:52:18.930
But how I envisioned my life looking as different, but but no less impactful.
00:52:19.450 --> 00:52:34.650
And so, you know, finding people around you who support the pivot matters, and will support you and even encourage you to find ways to change all the time.
00:52:35.590 --> 00:52:36.630
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:36.769 --> 00:52:48.570
Well, as you said, it's different, you know, as part of helping parents heal, you know, a lot of times we'll talk about like, people say, well, if I could choose to have them here, you know, of course I would.
00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:57.170
And, you know, the thing is, we don't know what our children's lives would have looked like, you know, had they not passed, we don't know what our lives look like, had they not passed.
00:52:58.170 --> 00:53:01.570
But we do know that we can choose to make meaning from it, right?
00:53:01.670 --> 00:53:05.150
We can take what we've been given and do something with that.
00:53:05.789 --> 00:53:08.090
And it can be something beautiful.
00:53:09.329 --> 00:53:18.769
And I know it's really hard to hear this when we talked about that, those initial stages of grief, that cute stage, I guess I would call it.
00:53:19.630 --> 00:53:20.610
You don't want to hear about this.
00:53:20.690 --> 00:53:21.970
And that's fine, I understand that.
00:53:22.170 --> 00:53:24.269
But what we can do is give people hope.
00:53:24.430 --> 00:53:29.070
We can offer up an example of like, this is what can become of this.
00:53:29.070 --> 00:53:31.410
And you're, you know, you're a great example of that.
00:53:31.650 --> 00:53:38.010
And again, helping people to help other people through grief is a very honorable thing.
00:53:38.090 --> 00:53:39.070
So, I appreciate what you're doing.
00:53:40.610 --> 00:53:45.990
So, for people that are listening, and I was going to, I told you before we started, I was going to ask you this question.
00:53:46.390 --> 00:53:49.730
So, anything that we didn't cover that you'd like to talk about?
00:53:49.829 --> 00:53:50.750
Anything you want to get out?
00:53:51.789 --> 00:54:03.769
I think the only thing that I would like to say is that I am grateful for grit.
00:54:04.809 --> 00:54:06.670
And that's all.
00:54:06.910 --> 00:54:10.769
And I don't know where it came from, because people ask me that all the time.
00:54:12.289 --> 00:54:14.309
I'm grateful for grit.
00:54:15.809 --> 00:54:29.730
But what I will say is this, there was a moment in my grief where I said to my sister, and she reminds me this all the time, I have to find purpose in that.
00:54:30.490 --> 00:54:39.870
And when that moment comes, no matter what difficulty in life that you're facing, when that moment comes, sees the call.
00:54:42.210 --> 00:54:45.630
Whatever that looks like sees the call.
00:54:45.630 --> 00:54:55.269
And Darius Anthony Torrance lived 28 years on earth.
00:54:55.590 --> 00:55:01.470
The world will never be the same because of what he added.
00:55:02.470 --> 00:55:08.170
I'm determined to make, to reverberate that impact larger than he could imagine.
00:55:08.769 --> 00:55:16.070
One day we will reunite and he's going to say, mom, my goodness, you are something else.
00:55:16.190 --> 00:55:17.670
That's what I'm waiting on.
00:55:18.090 --> 00:55:19.550
Yeah, I'm glad I asked you that question.
00:55:19.750 --> 00:55:20.849
I love that so much.
00:55:21.050 --> 00:55:24.610
You know, the thing is about, because people come to me all the time, they say, what's my purpose?
00:55:24.769 --> 00:55:25.390
What's my purpose?
00:55:25.570 --> 00:55:34.370
And as a coach and as a grief guide, I'm like, I can't tell you what your purpose is because I don't think it's a singular thing.
00:55:34.890 --> 00:55:36.250
And you talk about finding purpose.
00:55:36.530 --> 00:55:38.590
And I will even, I'll take it a step beyond that.
00:55:38.809 --> 00:55:40.289
We can create purpose.
00:55:41.309 --> 00:55:43.870
So, you know, sometimes people will look and say, what's the lesson in this?
00:55:43.970 --> 00:55:44.930
What's the meaning in this?
00:55:45.390 --> 00:55:46.530
What are you going to do with it?
00:55:46.650 --> 00:55:47.690
What are you going to make with it?
00:55:48.110 --> 00:55:49.329
And that's what you've done.
00:55:49.490 --> 00:55:50.910
You didn't, you didn't find purpose.
00:55:51.070 --> 00:55:52.010
You created purpose.
00:55:52.829 --> 00:56:01.050
And as you said, every one of us has a role here and everyone has a unique role.
00:56:01.870 --> 00:56:05.470
So yeah, the world is not the same without them being here physically.
00:56:06.309 --> 00:56:09.250
But it's also not the same because they did leave when they did.
00:56:10.610 --> 00:56:12.510
So both things are true at the same time.
00:56:14.470 --> 00:56:15.870
You said that beautifully.
00:56:17.590 --> 00:56:19.530
And so I'm inspired every day.
00:56:19.670 --> 00:56:22.250
I see grieving people doing all kinds of things.
00:56:22.390 --> 00:56:23.450
They're organizing laws.
00:56:23.829 --> 00:56:27.769
They're organizing meaningful communities on social media.
00:56:28.610 --> 00:56:37.050
They are, you know, they are finding ways to give back in ways that matter.
00:56:37.470 --> 00:56:40.349
And so, you know, everybody's story is different.
00:56:40.630 --> 00:56:43.210
And how they show up in the world is different.
00:56:44.570 --> 00:56:50.610
I've come a long way from those days when I was sitting in my room, not answering calls, not answering texts.
00:56:50.890 --> 00:56:51.309
Yeah.
00:56:51.870 --> 00:56:53.670
But I needed those days.
00:56:53.670 --> 00:56:55.170
There's a time for that too.
00:56:55.550 --> 00:56:55.650
Yes.
00:56:56.030 --> 00:56:57.430
There is a time for that.
00:56:57.490 --> 00:56:57.870
Absolutely.
00:56:58.769 --> 00:57:00.590
Well, Kelly, we're coming to the end of our time.
00:57:01.150 --> 00:57:04.670
Remind people of how they can reach you your website.
00:57:04.970 --> 00:57:10.650
And if people can reach out to you personally, you know, if you want to give that information out, this now's the time to do it.
00:57:11.010 --> 00:57:11.230
Yes.
00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:15.670
So our website is the timely presence.com.
00:57:15.670 --> 00:57:17.769
The timely presence.com.
00:57:18.070 --> 00:57:20.690
I am pretty active on LinkedIn.
00:57:21.550 --> 00:57:26.370
So Kelly Edmondson, that's E-D-M-O-N-D-S-O-N.
00:57:26.690 --> 00:57:30.730
And on Instagram, I am the dot Kelly Edmondson.
00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:31.829
All right.
00:57:31.849 --> 00:57:33.430
Well, Kelly, thanks so much for being here today.
00:57:33.590 --> 00:57:34.510
Thanks for what you're doing.
00:57:34.710 --> 00:57:38.329
And thanks to Darius for what he's done for all of us.
00:57:38.809 --> 00:57:39.130
Yes.
00:57:39.289 --> 00:57:40.610
Thank you for building this.
00:57:41.430 --> 00:57:43.590
I appreciate the time.
00:57:53.250 --> 00:57:56.269
Grief doesn't follow stages, timelines, or rules.
00:57:56.590 --> 00:57:58.450
If you've ever wondered, am I doing this right?
00:57:58.730 --> 00:57:59.450
You're not alone.
00:58:00.130 --> 00:58:01.809
That's why I created the grief check-in.
00:58:02.070 --> 00:58:02.809
It's not a test.
00:58:03.010 --> 00:58:04.190
There are no right or wrong answers.
00:58:04.670 --> 00:58:08.590
It's simply a gentle way to understand how grief may be showing up for you right now.
00:58:09.250 --> 00:58:15.390
In just a few minutes, you'll gain clarity and language for your experience without judgment, labels, or pressure to move on.
00:58:15.930 --> 00:58:19.670
If you're wondering where you are in grief, this is a safe place to find out.
00:58:20.250 --> 00:58:22.789
Go to grief2growth.com slash check-in.
00:58:23.289 --> 00:58:27.690
That's grief2growth.com slash check-in.