Ian's Story: Part II - Baptism and Beyond

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Thank you.
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Welcome to another episode of Inside Out.
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My name is Jim Bennett, and we are recounting Ian Wilkes' conversion story.
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And I just want to join the story in progress.
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He's meeting with the missionaries, and he'll take it from there.
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The discussions were uplifting.
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They were positive.
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I had loads of questions, apparently, because I kept in touch with the missionaries since, by the way, who taught me.
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I asked a lot of scientific questions.
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I was quite a bit of an intellect slash spiritual questions, et cetera, et cetera.
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And I took the whole thing and accepted it hook, line, and sinker.
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Everything they said, I believed.
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I had questions, but I accepted everything they said.
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Didn't question it.
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didn't doubt it.
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And I think I was just so, it just felt at that time, it was, as I look back, it was a gateway to survival.
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But beyond that, a gateway, which I dared I think like this at the time, and sometimes I wouldn't allow myself to think like this, not only a gateway to survival, but a gateway to happiness and peace, which I'd never experienced or rarely experienced.
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Such were the life and times of growing up in that family at that time in that neighborhood and so yes i had questions um but when they their answers they they they gave i accepted anyway came to the fifth discussion i think it was i think it's the third or the fifth at that time and they challenge you to get baptized and i uh it was the second discussion when we were teaching Your second discussion.
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The end of the second discussion, yeah.
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Or whenever you felt the spirit prompting you to say.
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I think the second discussion.
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I think back then it was the oral discussions.
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I think it was the third or fourth discussion, I think.
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Were these the hello, Mr.
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Brown discussions?
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Were they the same discussions that we taught?
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No.
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No.
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They were very much by rote, memorized discussions.
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Yeah, word for word.
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Word for word.
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You know, we had the principles, and what are they called?
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They had the principles, and then they had the sub-principles, and then they had the dialogue points in the discussions that you and I had in 87.
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And these were pre-87, and they were thicker, brown materials, and you had to memorize them word for word.
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There was no room for...
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uh discussion or too much discussion beyond what was written down uh nevertheless notwithstanding i uh we had very lively discussions at all kinds of things um and their answers satisfied me and the feelings i i what was interesting is that they would show message for happiness um again on the old uh tape recorder that and i watched I know, and I watched that, and I was like, my gosh, that's me, and I've got this time, and I choose to do this time, whatever, and I can choose a life of sin, like all your friends are choosing, and I'm like, yeah.
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Yeah, their life of sin was going to a car accident.
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It was going to a carnival.
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And it was having fun.
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But back then, it looked like it was sin to me.
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And I think the missionaries were doing a really good job conditioning my mind that going to a carnival was sinful.
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And I think the video has achieved that with many people, I'm sure.
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And then it showed the eternal life and families.
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And I wanted to be in a family that...
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loved me, that cared for me, that was interested in me.
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And I wasn't.
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And so the prospect of being in a family or being around people that felt and thought like that was more important than going to a carnival for me at that time.
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Right.
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And so I absorbed everything.
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I accepted everything.
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Yes, I had questions.
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I challenged some things, but I accepted their responses.
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They challenged me to get baptized.
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I kind of laughed and said, look, you know, my mom's not going to, you need permission legally, by law, actually, to get baptized at that time.
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That was my understanding at the time.
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And they said, look, you know, your mom's powerful.
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My mom had a reputation in the neighborhood.
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And I hope that's come through in this discussion.
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She was feared.
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You do not want to get on the wrong side of my mum.
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And people in the community will remember her to this day for sure.
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And so I said, it's not going to happen.
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You're not going to get written permission.
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And they said, who's more powerful, God or your mum?
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And I was like, hmm, I was kind of not sure about that one.
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My mum was pretty powerful.
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Yeah, my mum was powerful and would give God a run for his money for sure.
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But they said, no, no, have faith and pray.
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And by the way, here's some literature.
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Go home and read it.
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And so when I took the literature home and read it, I had to read it secretly.
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I read the Book of Mormon under...
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I shared this in a testimony in North America one time where I said, when I shared my...
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my conversion story, and I shared in my testimony, I think I was in Seattle at the time, many years later, at YSA in Bellevue, and I shared the experience of reading the Book of Mormon under torchlight, under my covers.
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And afterwards, some of the YSA came to me and said, Ian, that's extraordinary.
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Didn't the sheet set on fire?
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And I was like, what?
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That's exactly what I was thinking.
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No, no, I was like, what are you talking about?
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No, no, why would you set on fire a flashlight?
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Over the UK, they call it a torch, right?
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So a flashlight.
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So I had to read stuff secretly, privately.
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And erase things with your rubber, right?
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We'll get to that, maybe.
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But absolutely, I had to erase things with it.
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Words here, Canada, US, mean different things.
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Mean different things.
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And vice versa, for sure.
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So anyway, I took the discussions.
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I read the material.
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I really read it, Jim, and I accepted it.
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The challenge to get baptized, and they said, look, have faith, pray, fast, have fasted as well for a moment to approve this, etc.
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And in some extraordinary event, miracle, And I don't know the details, but the missus came back with a legitimate, non-forged, may I add, signature.
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I don't know how or why this happened.
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And my mum's signature approving me to get baptised.
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Some record.
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So you didn't even ask your mother.
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They went and approached your mother independent of you.
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What I learned afterwards, I learned a little bit of information afterwards, that they had approached the bishop, I think, in the ward.
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and some members there said, look, this guy, this young kid, you know, 16 years old at this time, I think I'd just turned 16 or just was about to turn 16.
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So just before 16, I think it was.
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And he wants to get baptized.
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His family's against it.
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And I think they mobilized some of the members.
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And so some influence somewhere in that neighborhood was brought down or brought into the situation.
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And lo and behold, mum had signed something that I was able to get baptised.
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And so I thought that was quite extraordinary.
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So, you know, I went back- Did you ever discuss it with your mother later?
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I tried to.
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I went back and I said, mum, you know that I'm, you know, wanting to, missions have asked me to get baptised.
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I know you're not happy with this, you don't approve of this, but you're allowing me to make this decision.
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She says, well, I remember her saying, it's up to you.
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I don't approve of it, but it's up to you.
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If you want to do with whatever in your life, it's up to you.
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You don't listen to me anyhow.
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You never listen to me, you know.
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And so, okay.
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So the conversation was quite short.
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It didn't last very long.
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And so...
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In July, the 25th, July 1982, I was picked up at the bottom of the street because I couldn't swing by the house.
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That was too much.
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I was picked up in a car with the members at the bottom of the road there and drove to a church, a chapel, not the one I was attending, another one which had a font.
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And I was baptized into the church.
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And it was an extraordinary event.
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I was very skinny back then and they couldn't find clothes to fit me.
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So all these white clothes, shirts were probably for a 20 year old and I was only 16, very small frame.
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And so the pictures of my baptism, I'm drenched in these big white pants and white shirts that look quite comical.
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Anyway, I was baptized and they came up the ward.
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None of my family friends came.
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They were invited, but no one showed.
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It was a small gathering.
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There was a few members that had got to know and they came along and they And there I was, I was greeted into the church and the bishop welcomed me and part of this new family now.
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And by the way, I'd been going to, as you'd expect, I'd been going to the youth program.
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So in the role of joining the church and being taught by the missionaries, I was now integrating, and this is a really important part of my experience and a very successful component of the church missionary effort.
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where they're very clever, very smart, but for me, again, very genuine experience where they integrate you into the youth program.
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So I'd met all these new friends.
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They didn't drink.
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They didn't smoke.
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They didn't want to kill each other.
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They didn't argue.
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They kind of had fun.
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They thought like I did, felt like I did.
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They had confidence.
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My gosh, that was something that I...
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It was just, you know, they would give talks in front of the branch or the ward and they were 16 years old and I just couldn't fathom or figure out how they'd have the confidence to do such extraordinary things, to speak in front of 50 people or 60 people.
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I just couldn't understand that.
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And they talked, they had lessons on self-worth and self-esteem and you have a purpose and meaning and you're worth something.
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And I was like, this is just extraordinary.
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It really saved me in every way, Jim.
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on a personal level spiritual physical emotional uh psychological um in every way the church the the gospel um i'll say i'll say the gospel because it's very different to the church and we might get into that um details of that at some point but for me the gospel principles you know the acceptance the warmth the the The support was completely opposite to what I had, something I'd only hoped for earlier.
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So I got baptized.
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At that time, you received the gift of the Holy Ghost at the same time.
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It's different now.
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And went back home, again on cloud 10.
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Felt this extraordinary, elevated spiritual, emotional experience.
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Went back and Again, in contrast, on quite a more extreme level than ever experienced before, when I walked into the door and proclaimed that I just got baptized, mom seemed to have forgotten that she'd allowed me or gave me permission and was seen partially unaware that this actually had happened.
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perhaps believing it wasn't going to happen or I'd back out or it wasn't real.
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She reacted with great fury, great fury, great anger.
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I mean, shouting, swearing, threatening, absolute furiousness.
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And told me right there and then to get the F out and not come back.
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So she basically told me to pack my bags and I didn't have much belongings at all.
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I had a dog called Shep.
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That was my dog.
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And she told me to take the dog.
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She wasn't going to look after the dog.
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And I had to leave.
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She was shouting anger, smashing stuff in the house.
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She was so mad, so angry.
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And then I remember her last words.
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I came out of the house.
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I had these few clothes in a plastic bag, a few coins in my pocket, a dog, a tin of dog meat in the bag, completely numb, no idea what was going on or where I was going or what was going to happen.
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And I walked up the street completely numb, lost, numb.
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I had no idea what to do or where to go.
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I remember the last few words.
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My mum was upstairs.
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She shouted out the window for all to hear, very loud, in front of the very close-knit houses that were there.
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And people came out of the houses, some of them at least, could hear the shouting and the arguing.
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And she shouted, pushed herself, stretched herself outside the window upstairs and told me very loudly for all to hear, go let your effing Mormons take care of you and don't ever come back.
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And so I walked up Grand Drive up to the top there, completely dazed, completely numb, turned left up Kershaw Avenue up to the Triangle of Shops there.
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If anyone listening in that community will know exactly what I'm talking about.
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And just walked, wondered aimlessly around the streets there, wondering what to do.
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And then it was getting late.
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This was in the summer of 82, so it wasn't cold.
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And I remember sleeping on a park bench with my dog.
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So there was a park bench.
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I got the clothes that was in the bag.
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I kind of put those on to keep warm.
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And then I kind of hurled up on this bench with Shep, the dog, and I slept overnight on this park bench in a park, just a few blocks away from where I lived.
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And then that next day, I connected with my friends and asked if I could stay, you know, if they had a couch that I could sleep on for a night or two until I figured out what was going on.
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And some couldn't and others wouldn't because they'd learned from my mother and family that I joined the Mormon church and that I was not to be supported.
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And that was a very, very difficult time.
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Again, physically, it was...
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quite vulnerable and just had nowhere to go i slept on the back bench two more nights and then i had uh uh left a message with the mishras um i think within a day or two and uh went back to the i think the third night after the third night of the back bench i went to knock on the uh the apartment on the flat where the bishop was staying at the spa store there, and explained what was going on.
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They then contacted the bishop and said, we have an emergency situation.
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And then within a space of hours, actually, the thing that my mother had shouted out the window a few days before began to unfold.
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So the members of the church rallied round, And I was given some temporary accommodation with a member in the ward.
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So I had a bed to sleep on, which I was very grateful for, and a shower and a meal to eat, et cetera, et cetera.
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And then, again, thank goodness to the members, they went further and spoke to the state presidency and said, look, this young man.
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And by the way, at this time, while this was going on, this was at the time I was leaving school.
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And I'd forged my mother's signature on the college application and had just at about the same time been accepted into college.
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Okay.
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And so, you know, I was living here, college is over here, all this church activity was going on in my life at that time.
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And right about the same time, the college nearby 10, 12 miles away had sent me a letter that I had received, actually, before I was thrown out, saying I'd been successful being accepted onto the course there, which was great.
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I was stunned by that.
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And so the state presidency and the bishop there organized and coordinated some long-term accommodation.
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And there was a ward in the stake, but a different ward, the same ward I was going to college, actually, Some of the members were approached there and my story was shared with them and said, this young man has been thrown out, is desperate, he's going to college, has joined the gospel and joined the church.
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Is anyone interested in providing some accommodation?
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And a number of families stepped up, three in particular.
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Two were not suitable because they were young women in my age, so that wasn't appropriate.
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Again, all this was new to me.
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I didn't understand what that meant.
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at that time, what that meant in terms of standards.
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You know, the church was brand new in my life.
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And so, but there's another, the person who had asked for help in their ward was the bishop.
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And he felt that it was his job to be an example and to step up.
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So his daughter had moved out.
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She'd gone to university.
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And coincidentally, a room had become available at the bishop's, in the bishop's home.
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And...
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Yeah, so this is in the town where I was going to college, quite a way away from where I, you know, Castleford.
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This was in Wakefield, maybe 15 miles away or so.
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And so this amazing family, the bishop and his family were extraordinarily kind and loving, and they were kind enough to allow me to stay with them.
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And I got close to them and they became like a second family.
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I went to college.
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Prior to this, by the way, and I must highlight this, my mother is not one for giving up without a fight.
00:19:31.112 --> 00:19:48.539
So within days of my mum learning that I'd been given temporary accommodation and later more permanent accommodation, she contacted the police And there's a division in the police called the CID, Criminal Investigation Department.
00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:49.561
I think that's what they call them.
00:19:49.582 --> 00:19:50.462
I think they still call that.
00:19:50.983 --> 00:19:53.949
And they deal with child kidnapping.
00:19:55.270 --> 00:20:02.423
And she'd reported me being kidnapped by the missionaries and by the church.
00:20:02.903 --> 00:20:06.950
So, you know, within fairly short...
00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:08.792
I think it was the temporary combination.
00:20:08.813 --> 00:20:11.417
So I slept rough for three nights.
00:20:12.162 --> 00:20:15.086
then found temporary accommodation with the help of the missionaries.
00:20:15.527 --> 00:20:24.278
And it was during my stay at that temporary accommodation, not with the bishop later on, but that middle accommodation, where there was a bang at the door.
00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:32.209
This was a good 10 miles away from where I used to live with my mum.
00:20:33.310 --> 00:20:41.481
And the two police officers, non-uniformed, regular clothed police officers, knocked on the door.
00:20:41.953 --> 00:20:46.258
and asked the sister, the family that I was staying with, am I in the house?
00:20:46.357 --> 00:20:47.199
And they said, yes.
00:20:47.219 --> 00:20:50.682
And can we speak to Ian Wilkes?
00:20:50.702 --> 00:20:51.343
And said, yes.
00:20:51.363 --> 00:20:55.086
So I came to the door and they asked me, you know, am I here at my own free will?
00:20:55.126 --> 00:20:55.606
I said, yes.
00:20:55.647 --> 00:20:58.069
Have I been kidnapped?
00:20:58.089 --> 00:20:59.211
I said, I'm not sure what that means.
00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:02.614
And they said, well, have you been forced to come here?
00:21:02.634 --> 00:21:03.595
And I said, no.
00:21:04.355 --> 00:21:05.477
Are you here at your own free will?
00:21:05.517 --> 00:21:05.998
I said, yes.
00:21:06.018 --> 00:21:08.119
And I said, what's happened?
00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:09.000
I told them what happened.
00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:09.942
I told them what Monday.
00:21:10.465 --> 00:21:13.429
And 15 minutes later or so, they left.
00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:20.676
And they would have gone back and told my mother that, you know, no, he's safe.
00:21:20.836 --> 00:21:21.617
He's not kidnapped.
00:21:21.998 --> 00:21:23.759
Did your mother want you to come back home?
00:21:24.060 --> 00:21:24.681
Was she trying?
00:21:25.622 --> 00:21:26.083
She was.
00:21:26.363 --> 00:21:27.523
I learned later that she was.
00:21:27.544 --> 00:21:37.914
I thought that the police going back and advising my mother that, you know, they asked me, do I plan to return home?
00:21:37.934 --> 00:21:38.855
I said, no chance.
00:21:38.895 --> 00:21:39.676
I'm not going back there.
00:21:39.978 --> 00:21:40.178
Never.
00:21:40.801 --> 00:21:41.702
I would never come back.
00:21:41.843 --> 00:21:44.467
So they will have gone back and reported all this to my mother.
00:21:44.507 --> 00:21:51.715
And knowing my mom that, I think a lot of people who don't know my mother would have thought, well, that would have been it.
00:21:51.757 --> 00:21:53.558
They just let things lie for a bit, et cetera.
00:21:53.578 --> 00:21:54.299
But that wasn't enough.
00:21:54.380 --> 00:21:59.606
My mother came, she found out, she asked the police where I was staying.
00:21:59.646 --> 00:22:01.730
They wouldn't tell her.
00:22:02.241 --> 00:22:05.487
She then found out through a friend where I was staying.
00:22:05.867 --> 00:22:08.050
This is probably eight, nine miles away, something like that.
00:22:08.451 --> 00:22:12.038
She found the temporary accommodation address where I was staying.
00:22:12.558 --> 00:22:19.750
And she came to the house three times, banging on the door, threatening, with people that I didn't recognize.
00:22:19.770 --> 00:22:26.662
A couple of guys that were from the neighborhood where I grew up.
00:22:27.137 --> 00:22:33.948
came to the door threatening, intimidating and demanding that I come to the door, which I never did, by the way.
00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:53.602
And this poor family, Jim, that had stepped up to provide some temporary accommodation had to bear the brunt of that physical threatening on the door to, you know, fairly serious individuals there at the door demanding that they release me or they enter and it's going to get very bloody.
00:22:53.622 --> 00:22:54.663
That must have been awful.
00:22:55.443 --> 00:23:01.952
I remember the shouting and the threatening language at the doorstep there.
00:23:02.113 --> 00:23:03.035
I never came to the door.
00:23:03.474 --> 00:23:04.256
I was terrified.
00:23:04.375 --> 00:23:07.000
It was just an awful, awful experience.
00:23:07.641 --> 00:23:12.647
And so anyway, I think she'd come by three times and that was it.
00:23:12.688 --> 00:23:17.733
That was the last I heard of her for a while.
00:23:17.775 --> 00:23:19.978
And so I...
00:23:20.738 --> 00:23:29.250
I don't want to jump to the end, but I'm hoping that that had some kind of a happy ending, that at some point in your life you were able to make peace with your mother.
00:23:29.872 --> 00:23:30.992
Shall I give you a punchline?
00:23:31.153 --> 00:23:34.278
Because I think the punchline could be interesting.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:35.759
Sure.
00:23:36.141 --> 00:23:36.701
About what happened.
00:23:37.082 --> 00:23:38.203
My mother joined the church.
00:23:39.045 --> 00:23:39.586
Oh, did she?
00:23:39.625 --> 00:23:40.968
She joined the church.
00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:43.090
Oh, okay.
00:23:43.672 --> 00:23:45.315
So that is kind of a happy ending.
00:23:45.855 --> 00:23:46.576
It is, it is.
00:23:46.596 --> 00:23:50.122
And my relationship was reconciled.
00:23:51.746 --> 00:23:54.450
In fact, that's not the right way of describing it.
00:23:55.952 --> 00:24:02.804
For the first time, just before she passed away, I had a relationship with her which I'd never had before, only for a few weeks.
00:24:03.384 --> 00:24:11.337
But the events that happened in between were as dramatic and as extraordinary as what I'm sharing with you right now.
00:24:11.657 --> 00:24:18.689
Unexpected and quite, some very interesting things, events that happened for that happy ending to happen.
00:24:19.266 --> 00:24:20.407
Quite extraordinary.
00:24:20.828 --> 00:24:24.555
And miracles, really, in some ways, depending on how you look at it.
00:24:25.236 --> 00:24:29.844
And so, anyway, this threatening behavior of my mom died down.
00:24:30.144 --> 00:24:32.667
She didn't come back to this temporary accommodation.
00:24:32.688 --> 00:24:45.328
I then, I think I was there for two, three weeks until I found, or a month until I, I think it was a month there until I found, they found more permanent accommodation with the bishop of the ward in the town where I was going to college.
00:24:45.953 --> 00:24:49.617
And so I moved in there and I had nothing.
00:24:49.817 --> 00:24:51.960
I had no clothes, no, you know, a few spare clothes.
00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:52.381
That was it.
00:24:52.421 --> 00:24:58.968
The family couldn't, they couldn't take my dog.
00:24:59.568 --> 00:25:03.613
And so I had to make a very, very tough decision.
00:25:03.633 --> 00:25:05.434
I was very close to my dog.
00:25:05.734 --> 00:25:08.057
And, you know, it was a young boy there with his dog.
00:25:08.557 --> 00:25:15.005
And I had to either find a home for the dog or go back home.
00:25:16.130 --> 00:25:31.375
I couldn't go home, and so the members there helped me find a farm, and I took the dog to a farm, left the dog there, and the dog couldn't understand what was going on, and I walked back from the farm in absolute tears, just devastated.
00:25:31.394 --> 00:25:46.500
I was heartbroken, and it still, I think I look back at it, that was a very, very, you know, emotional time, you know, were just an extraordinary price to pay.
00:25:46.540 --> 00:25:48.884
The family had a cat.
00:25:49.025 --> 00:25:49.806
They didn't have dogs.
00:25:49.846 --> 00:25:51.808
They couldn't accept the dog and it wasn't their fault.
00:25:53.090 --> 00:25:53.951
You know, I was just great.
00:25:54.153 --> 00:25:55.273
It was very, very tough.
00:25:55.294 --> 00:26:00.040
All this, you imagine all the emotions, all the feelings and thoughts that are going through your head on something like this.
00:26:00.721 --> 00:26:02.023
You know, going to a strange family.
00:26:02.044 --> 00:26:10.217
The family was very, unlike the family, you know, the neighborhood I grew up in, this family was very prosperous financially.
00:26:10.237 --> 00:26:11.198
Yeah.
00:26:11.778 --> 00:26:17.446
They might not agree with that, but compared to where I came from, they were for sure.
00:26:17.467 --> 00:26:27.222
He was a very successful businessman, very functional family, highly functional, close family, traditional family values.
00:26:28.404 --> 00:26:35.276
They spoke, they shared feelings, they would have family evenings and do things and say things that I'd never heard of before.
00:26:35.296 --> 00:26:36.798
They were very functional people.
00:26:36.930 --> 00:26:40.433
And they were kind enough to let me into their lives, into their home.
00:26:40.554 --> 00:26:42.636
And for me, it was just a dream.
00:26:42.696 --> 00:26:53.130
It was when I met with the sister there, the lady, the member there, she took me to my bedroom.
00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:58.576
And in those houses that I described earlier, you had to share beds and bedrooms.
00:26:58.656 --> 00:27:01.140
It was two bedrooms, three bedrooms, big families.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.201
That's how it was back then.
00:27:02.621 --> 00:27:11.192
A lot of families in those housing estates And to some extent today, our families, and they have to share rooms, you know.
00:27:11.773 --> 00:27:16.221
And so this member, sister, who showed me my room, it was my own room.
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:25.674
And, you know, I had to keep it tidy, but I was in charge of my own room and my own privacy, and I'd never had that before.
00:27:25.714 --> 00:27:29.359
And she was speaking, and I just wasn't sinking in.
00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:31.022
I just couldn't believe this was actually happening.
00:27:32.365 --> 00:27:34.808
And so this family, they took me in, and...
00:27:35.874 --> 00:27:48.269
I participated in all the church programs, youth, YSA, connected to many, many, many friends who I remain in close contact with even today.
00:27:48.288 --> 00:27:51.792
This family were extraordinary in terms of their kindness and love.
00:27:51.853 --> 00:27:54.596
And I was this mixed up kid, very lost.
00:27:58.141 --> 00:28:02.306
You know, didn't speak often.
00:28:03.027 --> 00:28:08.733
By the way, it might come as a surprise to you, but when I was The times I'm speaking of earlier, actually, I was very shy.
00:28:09.634 --> 00:28:20.028
When I reconnected with old friends of mine from school, they described me as quiet, shy, lacking confidence, exactly how I remember myself.
00:28:20.127 --> 00:28:23.491
I was afraid to speak, afraid to share the opinion in case I was wrong.
00:28:23.952 --> 00:28:28.719
And so this family environment was completely opposite.
00:28:28.798 --> 00:28:33.585
I was encouraged to open up, encouraged to share, encouraged to share a view or opinion.
00:28:34.945 --> 00:28:36.268
And I was going to college.
00:28:36.347 --> 00:28:39.112
I was getting an education that was going well.
00:28:39.492 --> 00:28:41.596
Academically, I did quite well.
00:28:42.096 --> 00:28:44.339
I got lots of support.
00:28:44.861 --> 00:28:45.442
What did you study?
00:28:47.204 --> 00:28:48.145
Did you have a major?
00:28:49.288 --> 00:28:52.011
Okay, so it was a diploma.
00:28:52.532 --> 00:28:55.416
They call it HNC or HND now.
00:28:55.436 --> 00:28:57.319
It was a higher national diploma.
00:28:57.420 --> 00:28:58.642
It was not a degree.
00:28:58.662 --> 00:28:59.262
It wasn't a degree.
00:28:59.282 --> 00:29:01.246
It was more of a two-year degree.
00:29:01.442 --> 00:29:03.183
half of a degree, college diploma.
00:29:03.284 --> 00:29:04.345
College diploma.
00:29:04.986 --> 00:29:05.226
Its
00:29:05.266 --> 00:29:08.209
degree is kind of, I think, probably
00:29:08.229 --> 00:29:09.589
the American equivalent of that.
00:29:10.009 --> 00:29:10.471
I think it is.
00:29:10.530 --> 00:29:11.352
It's not a fully...
00:29:11.991 --> 00:29:17.698
I have other degrees, which are the full four-year degrees, fully-fledged ones, but this wasn't.
00:29:17.738 --> 00:29:21.101
This was a two-year associate degree or two-year diploma.
00:29:21.541 --> 00:29:22.603
It was environmental science.
00:29:22.782 --> 00:29:26.507
It was some geography.
00:29:27.047 --> 00:30:06.463
It was more of an environmental management type course which really interested me you know environmental resources there was some mechanical engineering components to it there's mathematics maths with an s that's what we say over there you say math and there's some you know there's some business development component it was more of a like a general vocational preparation like a mini MBA kind of thing with a lean towards engineering and environmental sciences which I quite like And so I did that for two years and did okay with that.
00:30:06.724 --> 00:30:11.509
I wasn't the best in the class, but I performed pretty well in the class.
00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:28.979
And so that education experience really propelled my personal thoughts about myself, about how I felt about myself, my life, my value, my esteem, my self-worth.
00:30:29.019 --> 00:30:33.064
So education has a major part to play in how people feel about themselves.
00:30:33.144 --> 00:30:37.308
And you know this, and I think most people will be aware of this.
00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:45.617
And you start to learn stuff, and you start to develop a knowledge of things, and you start to develop your interests, and you become your...
00:30:46.038 --> 00:30:55.470
I think at that time, Jim, that two years at college, being immersed, and really immersed, very active, volunteer for everything.
00:30:55.529 --> 00:30:58.852
I just did everything that they wanted me to do in the church.
00:30:59.913 --> 00:31:03.678
But all of that really transformed my life.
00:31:03.718 --> 00:31:06.000
It was transformational on every level.
00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:11.467
Self-esteem, self-worth, knowledge, education, direction, purpose, meaning, etc.
00:31:11.507 --> 00:31:16.792
We were taught to come in 19, 20, you go on a mission, etc.
00:31:17.093 --> 00:31:21.438
It was like I'd been in the church before.
00:31:22.018 --> 00:31:30.431
I wrote a testimony in a couple of books of Mormon that I still have, and these were one before I got baptized, one after.
00:31:30.471 --> 00:31:38.182
And if you read them, and they're a bit cheesy, and my family think they're very cheesy, like a large cheeseburger type cheesiness, right?
00:31:38.584 --> 00:31:42.891
Dad, that's a bit funny, a bit cheesy, but, you know, sound a bit like a prophet, apparently.
00:31:44.814 --> 00:31:44.894
Yeah.
00:31:45.185 --> 00:31:47.449
But that's how I felt at the time.
00:31:47.609 --> 00:31:51.855
And if you read those, if you give them for thinking I'd been in the church my entire life.
00:31:52.696 --> 00:31:59.487
And so I took everything, absorbed everything, and dances and activities and youth and YSA.
00:31:59.567 --> 00:32:00.749
I was the YSA chairman.
00:32:00.808 --> 00:32:09.821
I didn't ask for that, but I was there with one of the sisters there at my age, one of the girls, and we organized YSA conventions together.
00:32:09.953 --> 00:32:12.657
And so I did that.
00:32:12.758 --> 00:32:14.441
I was in college for two years.
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.423
Everything in the church I did.
00:32:16.903 --> 00:32:18.646
Pulled all the rules, by the way, in the church.
00:32:19.086 --> 00:32:21.371
I was pretty diligent on that.
00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:30.964
Having grown up with drink and smoke and everyone in those neighborhoods, not everyone, that's a bit harsh, but a lot of people were sleeping around.
00:32:30.984 --> 00:32:37.074
I won't share some of the details, but...
00:32:37.506 --> 00:33:03.585
members of my family sleeping with other members on on the street was just mind-blowing things that we saw and witnessed in the home and common knowledge apparently to everyone up and down that neighborhood uh obviously not to the kids there but like me but you know very free when it comes to sexual prom promiscuities all right and uh everyone's sleeping or Not everyone, but a lot of people sleeping around.
00:33:04.045 --> 00:33:07.128
It wasn't the life that I wanted and smoking and drinking.
00:33:07.148 --> 00:33:12.817
So this clean Mormon living thing was like, hey, I'm just a dry Mormon here.
00:33:12.836 --> 00:33:16.801
It was just everything felt right at that time.
00:33:16.842 --> 00:33:22.288
And so I was being healed.
00:33:22.409 --> 00:33:28.176
I was, I guess, recovering from the early years there.
00:33:28.416 --> 00:33:28.758
And so...
00:33:29.634 --> 00:33:45.176
And so getting involved in, for example, one of the missionaries in the ward was sent home early and they have a shortage of missionaries and they had a gap in the summertime of two months.
00:33:45.857 --> 00:33:53.209
And they asked, is anyone in the ward wants to be like any young man or was I 18 at the time or 19?
00:33:53.569 --> 00:33:57.414
Does anyone in the ward want to serve like a mini mission, they called it, a mini mission?
00:33:57.736 --> 00:33:58.676
Yeah, my brother did one
00:33:58.696 --> 00:33:58.958
of those.
00:33:59.329 --> 00:34:04.357
Yeah, and I put my hand up and said, yeah, I'll do a mini mission.
00:34:04.397 --> 00:34:07.002
This was summertime, I think two years later.
00:34:07.182 --> 00:34:09.405
This was just after college.
00:34:09.786 --> 00:34:10.467
I'd graduated.
00:34:10.487 --> 00:34:13.893
It was two months.
00:34:14.375 --> 00:34:15.576
It was in my own ward.
00:34:16.538 --> 00:34:18.000
And I did.
00:34:18.019 --> 00:34:18.420
That's what I did.
00:34:18.481 --> 00:34:19.722
I did a mini mission for two months.
00:34:19.782 --> 00:34:20.304
I loved it.
00:34:20.344 --> 00:34:23.610
And I did like getting up so early.
00:34:24.226 --> 00:34:31.215
Um, but I did it and, you know, I was just a kid there and it was, the mission was great and I did a mini mission and I, I loved it.
00:34:31.315 --> 00:34:35.240
And that really, uh, that was my MTC, um, really.
00:34:35.780 --> 00:34:39.085
Um, and so I, you know, I finished that and then I got a job.
00:34:39.445 --> 00:34:40.427
I got this great job.
00:34:40.487 --> 00:34:49.856
That was another miracle, really getting in something in, in, in a business, um, that allowed me to get into an industry that became very successful for me.
00:34:50.416 --> 00:34:57.067
So I had a series of jobs, different types of jobs, that were good, some quite technical, that got me into what I'm doing right now.
00:34:58.088 --> 00:35:03.556
And then these jobs were serious jobs.
00:35:03.657 --> 00:35:09.786
I had a company car, good salary, very technical in terms of manufacturing, engineering, et cetera, junior positions.
00:35:09.806 --> 00:35:11.949
You got this kind of a job while you were still...
00:35:12.514 --> 00:35:18.061
I think I was, what happened, I was 18, I think, when I graduated.
00:35:18.101 --> 00:35:21.085
So you leave school at 16 in the UK, as you know.
00:35:21.606 --> 00:35:26.472
And by the way, feel free to jump in at any point if I'm talking too long or over-speaking here.
00:35:26.492 --> 00:35:28.815
But you leave school at 16.
00:35:29.876 --> 00:35:32.501
You go get a job, go down the mine or the pit, as they say.
00:35:33.793 --> 00:35:35.675
Or you go to college, which I did.
00:35:36.217 --> 00:35:38.099
And then you go on to a degree, which I didn't do.
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.802
I did a degree and other degrees later.
00:35:40.842 --> 00:35:44.527
Or after your college degree, you go get a job.
00:35:44.547 --> 00:35:45.068
That's what I did.
00:35:45.128 --> 00:35:50.675
So I got a job in a city called Leeds, in West Yorkshire.
00:35:51.054 --> 00:35:54.940
Again, maybe 20 miles away from where I grew up.
00:35:55.940 --> 00:35:57.123
The biggest city in that area.
00:35:57.143 --> 00:36:02.750
And the job was selling telephone sales, selling plastic tape.
00:36:04.065 --> 00:36:13.880
sellotape, adhesive tape, sticky tape, in large boxes for businesses, for companies, right?
00:36:15.621 --> 00:36:21.110
And it was a big room with all these sales guys, and it was not technical, so that wasn't technical.
00:36:22.032 --> 00:36:41.639
And you had a quarter, you know, like a North American approach to sales, telephone sales, and you had to sell Many, many boxes of these plastic tape, industrial tape, to manufacturing and machinery and engineering companies that needed them.
00:36:42.481 --> 00:36:44.487
And I'd call, and I did okay.
00:36:44.889 --> 00:36:47.876
I wasn't the very best sales guy, but I was probably...
00:36:48.257 --> 00:36:50.221
Out of the 10 that were there, I was probably number seven.
00:36:50.842 --> 00:36:52.864
So I did quite well.
00:36:52.905 --> 00:36:54.588
You were in the top 10.
00:36:55.309 --> 00:36:56.670
Well, there was only 10.
00:36:57.030 --> 00:36:58.873
So I guess I was, yeah.
00:36:58.893 --> 00:37:00.657
So in the top 10 of 10 people, for sure.
00:37:00.717 --> 00:37:01.858
And I did pretty well.
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.864
I wasn't the best, but I did pretty well.
00:37:05.965 --> 00:37:07.067
And I called a company.
00:37:07.106 --> 00:37:10.391
You call these companies out of the yellow pages.
00:37:10.431 --> 00:37:11.452
Here you'd have the internet, right?
00:37:11.472 --> 00:37:12.514
But this is before internet.
00:37:13.255 --> 00:37:15.820
And so there's a book called The Yellow Pages.
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.380
You might remember this.
00:37:16.420 --> 00:37:17.041
Oh, sure.
00:37:17.762 --> 00:37:22.688
And we'd go through Yellow Pages and we'd be given a geography in a certain industry.
00:37:23.208 --> 00:37:26.773
And I had the south of Yorkshire, so I'd call different companies, etc.
00:37:26.793 --> 00:37:31.460
South of Yorkshire is very industrial, steel, machinery, engineering, etc.
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:33.563
There's a lot of companies that support those industries.
00:37:33.663 --> 00:37:36.726
It's the steel capital of UK, Sheffield.
00:37:37.568 --> 00:37:44.496
And so I called these companies, sold quite a bit of plastic tape over the few weeks I was there.
00:37:45.121 --> 00:37:46.143
A few months I was there.
00:37:46.403 --> 00:37:53.353
And then one company I called, just a regular call, and made some sales.
00:37:53.534 --> 00:37:58.219
My name went up on the whiteboard there, and I think I was number two that day or something like that.
00:37:58.541 --> 00:37:59.240
Ian, well done.
00:37:59.481 --> 00:38:00.063
You're rocking it.
00:38:00.083 --> 00:38:00.663
It's just great.
00:38:01.324 --> 00:38:03.586
You'll get to number one eventually, et cetera, et cetera.
00:38:03.608 --> 00:38:09.536
And I'm like thinking, I don't want to stay in this job for too long.
00:38:09.976 --> 00:38:10.416
But anyway...
00:38:11.746 --> 00:38:15.070
This company called me back after hours.
00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:17.572
I was in the office and they called me back.
00:38:17.592 --> 00:38:21.097
There's only one other person in the office, I think, doing something somewhere else.
00:38:21.717 --> 00:38:24.922
And this guy said, oh, it's Archie.
00:38:25.742 --> 00:38:27.045
And I said, oh, Archie.
00:38:27.085 --> 00:38:30.168
He said, no, you called me earlier in the day and sold me this tape.
00:38:30.268 --> 00:38:31.550
Oh, yeah, I did.
00:38:31.929 --> 00:38:32.490
You see, that's fine.
00:38:32.510 --> 00:38:33.913
He said, thank you for that.
00:38:33.932 --> 00:38:35.094
And I said, thank you for your order.
00:38:35.855 --> 00:38:39.920
And he said, would you like a job in industrial sales, machinery sales?
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:41.501
I was like, yeah.
00:38:41.922 --> 00:38:43.405
I don't know anything about industrial sales.
00:38:44.106 --> 00:38:47.211
And he said, look, he said, I like what you did on the phone.
00:38:47.231 --> 00:38:47.972
I liked your approach.
00:38:48.153 --> 00:38:49.896
Would you be interested in an interview?
00:38:49.916 --> 00:38:52.601
And I said, sure.
00:38:52.983 --> 00:38:56.528
So I went down over the weekend.
00:38:56.769 --> 00:38:57.992
We set up a date, went down there.
00:38:58.012 --> 00:39:02.460
And I had this extraordinary conversation with this guy who...
00:39:03.425 --> 00:39:05.108
who was from Scotland, by the way, from Dumfries.
00:39:05.407 --> 00:39:12.315
And he owned this company and basically said that we've got this job, we'll train you, and we'll support you.
00:39:12.335 --> 00:39:15.278
You get a company car, you get£13,000 or£14,000.
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:18.402
That was a lot of money back then.
00:39:18.862 --> 00:39:19.923
And I got a company car.
00:39:20.643 --> 00:39:21.786
I couldn't believe this was happening.
00:39:22.606 --> 00:39:23.847
And I said, sure.
00:39:24.108 --> 00:39:26.831
He said, do you think you could do it?
00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:30.976
And if it had asked me a few years before, no chance.
00:39:31.315 --> 00:39:32.456
I wouldn't have even gone to the interview.
00:39:32.516 --> 00:39:32.958
But now...
00:39:33.858 --> 00:39:41.630
with my newfound confidence and my college diploma, I said, yeah, I think I can do it.
00:39:41.710 --> 00:39:45.456
I said, if you can give me the training, I'll learn, I'll pick it up.
00:39:45.496 --> 00:39:45.996
And that's what I did.
00:39:46.016 --> 00:39:50.023
They put me into a manufacturing environment for one month or two months, solid.
00:39:50.063 --> 00:39:53.148
I was actually working in operations on the factory floor.
00:39:53.969 --> 00:39:55.652
Brilliant way of training somebody, really.
00:39:55.693 --> 00:39:58.097
Doing all kinds of jobs in that.
00:39:58.356 --> 00:40:00.960
And to understand the equipment and the equipment sales, very technical.
00:40:00.981 --> 00:40:06.143
This is plastic injection molding and film extrusion, printing, plastic graphic, very technical.
00:40:07.005 --> 00:40:25.911
I worked in this operation and then came back and developed a, well, became successful with this company and actually left years later, set up my own company and became one of the largest industrial machinery suppliers in Europe.
00:40:27.414 --> 00:40:38.922
Long story short, that's another miracle of success, depending on how you measure success, is something that I never would have even thought about owning an operating company.
00:40:39.382 --> 00:40:49.918
But this experience with this company, the success I had there enabled me to believe in myself enough to think that I could do it myself, and I did.
00:40:49.958 --> 00:41:00.454
And I ended up buying a few of the competition and established a very leading position in the UK and parts of Europe doing that.
00:41:00.737 --> 00:41:03.422
and enjoyed that, doing that quite well.
00:41:04.222 --> 00:41:13.456
So, and then if I go back here, so the job that I took with this individual down in, this company down in south of Yorkshire, I did that for two years.
00:41:13.496 --> 00:41:19.146
It was training and I felt obliged to him to stay there because they trained me, the salary was good.
00:41:19.827 --> 00:41:22.010
The church was encouraging me to go on a mission.
00:41:22.250 --> 00:41:24.293
Ian, you're 19 now, 19, right?
00:41:24.873 --> 00:41:29.842
You put your papers in, a lot of pressure actually on the ward and the bishop there to go on a mission.
00:41:31.010 --> 00:41:34.914
At the time, I'd grown enough to know I wasn't ready.
00:41:35.134 --> 00:41:37.056
I'd grown enough to know I wasn't mature enough.
00:41:37.717 --> 00:41:38.378
I wasn't ready.
00:41:38.938 --> 00:41:39.659
I had this job.
00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:40.519
I'd made a commitment.
00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:41.260
They were training me.
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:42.521
I felt obliged to do the job.
00:41:42.882 --> 00:41:43.684
The money was good.
00:41:43.704 --> 00:41:45.125
I had a company car.
00:41:45.164 --> 00:41:49.349
By the company car, it got me up and down the country to every YSA event that was on the map.
00:41:49.849 --> 00:41:51.791
I went every single one on the weekend.
00:41:52.193 --> 00:41:53.094
Finished work at five.
00:41:53.733 --> 00:41:58.960
I'd go down to London Hyde Park, a four or five hour journey with all my friends in the car.
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.416
We'd stay overnight and we'd meet girls and friends.
00:42:03.197 --> 00:42:13.068
I met many, many girls, had many, many dates up and down the country thanks to this company car that I had at this particular job.
00:42:13.088 --> 00:42:13.690
So I had money.
00:42:13.710 --> 00:42:14.851
I had a good job.
00:42:15.110 --> 00:42:15.871
I was good at it.
00:42:16.052 --> 00:42:17.554
I became good at it.
00:42:17.574 --> 00:42:31.431
I had this amazing network of friends up and down the country who I just loved and fell in love with and adored and just wonderful, wonderful people who Just thought I was worth something and that was important to me.
00:42:32.733 --> 00:42:39.780
And so I did that job for two years, saved quite a bit of money.
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:44.005
I stayed with the family, by the way, that took me in.
00:42:44.086 --> 00:42:46.449
So I'd been there, stayed there for a number of years.
00:42:46.469 --> 00:42:55.139
I did, through another member, rent a separate place with a friend of mine around about the age of 20.
00:42:55.219 --> 00:42:56.862
So I did leave this family behind.
00:42:57.025 --> 00:43:00.878
that had looked after me to have a bit more independence.
00:43:00.978 --> 00:43:45.509
I was quite independent, 19, 20 years old, car, job, YSA, girlfriend, etc., etc., network of friends around the UK decided to rent in the same ward another room accommodation so I was more independent it's something that I wanted and we agreed on and that was fine another good friend of mine shared the had another room in the same house so him and I became really good friends and he was actually a member of the church and very committed to going on a mission so I saved up all this money and 21 you know I was still 21 or just prior to 21 I'd I thought that was the time to put the papers in, which I did, again, in a really good position.
00:43:45.548 --> 00:43:53.878
And by the way, just as a side note, and I'm not, this is the first interview I've ever done.
00:43:53.898 --> 00:44:01.507
So in extremes, doing the first podcast, so very experienced at how to organize information here.
00:44:01.547 --> 00:44:16.103
But after about a year of staying with this family, the bishop who took me in, And I learned later, years later, that mum had wrote very stinging letters to them and made very personal threats to the family in writing.
00:44:16.143 --> 00:44:17.425
To the family you were staying with?
00:44:17.905 --> 00:44:18.306
That's right.
00:44:18.367 --> 00:44:22.092
You know, she came by to the house, that temporary accommodation, three times.
00:44:22.653 --> 00:44:30.806
She'd apparently come by, she'd been by to the house where this family, this bishop was, this bishop family took me in.
00:44:31.027 --> 00:44:32.648
I think being by there once or twice.
00:44:33.090 --> 00:44:37.655
wrote often very angry letters to them, which they kept from me.
00:44:38.637 --> 00:44:39.697
She made all kinds of threats.
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:48.989
But I think about a year into joining the church, my own choice, I made contact with my mum.
00:44:49.871 --> 00:45:00.684
And it was at that time we had some basic level of reconciliation, but on a very, very basic level.
00:45:01.784 --> 00:45:04.152
And Not a relationship.
00:45:04.251 --> 00:45:11.322
I wouldn't describe it as a relationship with her, but just we were talking and we started talking about what happened.
00:45:12.885 --> 00:45:16.110
There was still anger on her side and hurt and pain on my side.
00:45:16.170 --> 00:45:20.436
So it was a long, long way off of getting it remotely like a mother-son relationship.
00:45:20.876 --> 00:45:22.059
But we started dialogue.
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:23.681
We started talking and I visited.
00:45:24.202 --> 00:45:24.902
I didn't stay over.
00:45:25.603 --> 00:45:29.851
You know, I called in and just said hi.
00:45:29.871 --> 00:45:35.485
I would meet downtown in the town and you know, go for a, I'd have a hot chocolate, she'd have a tea, et cetera.
00:45:36.126 --> 00:45:43.436
And so there was, you know, some effort on my part to reconnect, but that was down to me.
00:45:43.456 --> 00:45:44.478
I made that choice.
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:56.735
Over the years, things improved and there was some very striking, significant events that happened, which were quite miraculous, really, which we might get into.
00:45:56.815 --> 00:46:05.483
But going back to where I was with the mission, you know, I was, been with this job two years, put my papers in.
00:46:05.764 --> 00:46:09.110
My best friend there who I was staying with became my best friend.
00:46:09.731 --> 00:46:11.394
He put his papers at the same time.
00:46:11.434 --> 00:46:14.219
There were seven of us in the ward.
00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:16.643
How old were you at this point?
00:46:17.945 --> 00:46:20.891
No, I wasn't ready and I knew I wasn't ready, Jim.
00:46:20.931 --> 00:46:23.496
I wasn't mature, but I was mature enough to know I was ready.
00:46:24.237 --> 00:46:26.503
Again, I had to feel ready.
00:46:26.684 --> 00:46:34.474
I was pressurized a lot by the members, but I was quite blunt and direct to say, look, I know me.
00:46:34.494 --> 00:46:36.516
I'm going to go, but I'm not ready to go right now.
00:46:36.896 --> 00:46:37.637
Just back off.
00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:42.704
I did say back off, but I said, you know, please give me some space.
00:46:42.724 --> 00:46:44.146
I'm going to go.
00:46:44.186 --> 00:46:45.427
Don't pressure me.
00:46:45.467 --> 00:46:46.989
I'm not one to be pressured.
00:46:48.110 --> 00:46:49.411
You know, I'm my own man now, right?
00:46:49.572 --> 00:46:53.617
I'm my own free will, and I've got some sense of who I am by this stage.
00:46:54.177 --> 00:47:21.036
uh a little bit a little bit of sense at least who i am and knowing myself a little bit and so the bishop uh gave me some space and i did this job saved up uh and and just before i was 21 years old i put my papers in and got and there were seven of us who put papers at that same time we got called to um um i got called to scotland and others got called to California, Philippines.
00:47:21.998 --> 00:47:24.782
I can't remember the rest, but I think I was the only one at that time.
00:47:25.184 --> 00:47:26.405
I think someone got called to London.
00:47:27.487 --> 00:47:29.210
So I think there's two of us that went to the British Isles.
00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:30.172
I got called to Scotland.
00:47:30.251 --> 00:47:33.737
London's right at the bottom of the UK, as you know, pretty much.
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:41.048
Scotland is 120 miles north from where I was living, you know, in Yorkshire, north of England.
00:47:41.750 --> 00:47:42.650
And I was fine.
00:47:42.690 --> 00:47:43.431
It felt right.
00:47:43.512 --> 00:47:44.072
It felt good.
00:47:44.092 --> 00:47:46.056
I think because of where I came from...
00:47:48.130 --> 00:47:53.597
Anything that was successful like that, to be accepted on a mission, I didn't care.
00:47:53.657 --> 00:47:57.523
You could have sent me to Iran or anywhere.
00:47:57.563 --> 00:47:58.804
I would have accepted it gladly.
00:47:58.864 --> 00:48:07.898
I think it was just a confirmation of acceptance that I was good enough to go on a mission.
00:48:08.038 --> 00:48:09.219
I was worthy.
00:48:09.260 --> 00:48:10.440
I was good enough to go on a mission.
00:48:10.501 --> 00:48:11.722
I followed the rules.
00:48:12.304 --> 00:48:13.445
And I was just grateful.
00:48:13.786 --> 00:48:14.626
You could have sent me anywhere.
00:48:14.847 --> 00:48:16.510
I was a very different person.
00:48:16.673 --> 00:49:15.103
individual than even some of the guys in the church just grateful for the basic simple things you know I live in a beautiful home and every day not literally but frequently I'm grateful for the carpet that I walk on we didn't have carpets in certain rooms growing up grateful for the basics that I've got in my life right now which I didn't have growing up and I'm not materialistic at all i'm just grateful for the basics so so when i got called accepted my goodness i've been accepted to good enough where they have to go on a mission um to scotland it was uh fantastic people said to me when i opened the papers there with my friends and uh the the family the the bishop that i went back to when i opened the the the call from the church there uh some of the friends that were there with me i said are you not disappointed i said no why well how would i be disappointed this is amazing I know, but you're going to Scotland, Ian.
00:49:15.164 --> 00:49:17.067
It's just like, you're up the road.
00:49:17.106 --> 00:49:17.768
And I said, no, no, no.
00:49:18.347 --> 00:49:20.451
I said, look, I'm going on a mission.
00:49:21.211 --> 00:49:22.273
I'm going to serve the Lord.
00:49:22.713 --> 00:49:24.617
And I've been accepted.
00:49:24.637 --> 00:49:25.617
I'm worthy.
00:49:25.878 --> 00:49:30.505
It was very basic for me, just a basic standard to me.
00:49:30.525 --> 00:49:36.532
And having felt a failure most of my life, for me, this was...
00:49:37.826 --> 00:49:43.253
proof that I wasn't a failure, that I could do something, I could make something in my life.
00:49:43.733 --> 00:49:50.001
And so it was a very emotional experience for me.
00:49:50.623 --> 00:50:20.818
And these experiences were quite emotional in the positive that friends, activities, being accepted to go on a mission, getting into college was evidence for me or proof to me for me that i was worth something and um please it's hard not to get emotional when i think about how i felt at that time but
00:50:21.498 --> 00:50:38.934
oh but it's awesome sounds like it's hard to separate sort of the kinds of solid concrete things that the church did to support you and to sustain you that are independent of the doctrine or the teachings of the church.
00:50:41.036 --> 00:50:59.664
Because it sounds to me like all of that was wrapped up together, that you would talk about the church being true, not necessarily because of some kind of esoteric spiritual experience, but because the church had very literally saved your life in all these kinds of ways.
00:51:00.144 --> 00:51:00.865
Is that fair to say?
00:51:01.378 --> 00:51:03.041
It's more than fair.
00:51:03.061 --> 00:51:03.621
It's accurate.
00:51:03.762 --> 00:51:05.985
It literally, literally saved my life.
00:51:06.326 --> 00:51:22.731
And as I think back at that point, the deepest, darkest point when I was 14 and what I thought I was going to do to myself, it really, I was in the abyss and somehow, some way that I was able to get through that.
00:51:23.731 --> 00:51:25.275
And the church literally saved me.
00:51:25.695 --> 00:51:26.916
The gospel saved me, really.
00:51:26.956 --> 00:51:31.679
And so, you know, we look at life and we look at Success and what does that mean?
00:51:31.699 --> 00:51:31.858
Well,
00:51:31.918 --> 00:51:32.739
I push back.
00:51:33.061 --> 00:51:36.724
I don't mean to interrupt you But I push back and say it wasn't just the gospel.
00:51:36.744 --> 00:52:03.376
It was the actual church It was the fact that there were people in the church that were able to take you in at a time when you were sleeping on a park bench And that you know that there was an actual physical organization That of people who were engaged in making sure that your life Was far less fraught than it had been when you were living at home.
00:52:03.396 --> 00:52:09.184
I mean, I think there's so much value in the church.
00:52:10.425 --> 00:52:22.719
A lot of people who no longer believe in the doctrine of the church still remain in the church because they find such value in the kind of community that you discovered at such a young age.
00:52:23.541 --> 00:52:24.362
Is that fair to say?
00:52:24.382 --> 00:52:24.422
It
00:52:25.103 --> 00:52:25.342
is.
00:52:25.382 --> 00:52:26.583
No, you're absolutely right.
00:52:26.864 --> 00:52:56.690
I've mention that i you know when you mention church i mentioned the gospel but you you are right the church mechanics the the operations of the church um absolutely were there for me you know people doing certain things in a certain way support physical support you know temporal support etc no question that the church operations uh for me personally at time was um came into full effect and was again, absolutely saved me.
00:52:57.130 --> 00:53:03.860
The gospel, the principles, the driving motivations behind why people did what they did.
00:53:03.940 --> 00:53:06.565
Extraordinary people, frankly, who I didn't know, Jim.
00:53:07.106 --> 00:53:22.389
These are complete strangers who came into my life and saved me, helped me, and actually spoke to me and brought me back from the abyss that cared enough to have that and applied the principles in a very extraordinary, very Christ-like way.
00:53:22.849 --> 00:53:32.800
So absolutely, the operations of the church, the kindness, extraordinary kindness of the members, the principles, the doctrine.
00:53:34.063 --> 00:53:50.442
I think, as I look back, I associated all of the successes and the new life and all the transformations with confirmation that the church and the gospel were true.
00:53:51.202 --> 00:53:58.451
And I look back at my own life and I can understand why I thought and felt like that.
00:53:58.530 --> 00:54:15.211
These very different, quite extraordinary transformation in my life was all down to the fact that not only were the members, the members who did what they did in kindness because the church was true and that this was the only true way to salvation.
00:54:15.253 --> 00:54:16.414
This is the pathway.
00:54:16.961 --> 00:54:21.327
And the only way to be happy and be peace and be successful in life.
00:54:21.789 --> 00:54:23.291
And that was the message that was taught.
00:54:23.371 --> 00:54:26.235
And that's where I accepted without with question.
00:54:26.275 --> 00:54:27.356
I did question.
00:54:27.396 --> 00:54:34.746
I wasn't blind faith because I was intelligent enough to ask all kinds of questions, but I was satisfied with the answers at that time.
00:54:35.487 --> 00:54:36.429
And it was it was.
00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:41.918
Confirmation after confirmation that what I was doing was right and it felt right.
00:54:42.579 --> 00:54:51.291
And so when the mission, you know, when the time came for quite a few years in the war to put our papers in and we all did and went to different places.
00:54:51.351 --> 00:55:02.590
For me, it was, you know, being called by the prophet was that, you know, that I had a future, not just in the church, but on the planet, right?
00:55:02.753 --> 00:55:09.164
And so, you know, I had direction, I had purpose, I had meaning, you know, I had value.
00:55:09.425 --> 00:55:12.409
And others thought that.
00:55:13.130 --> 00:55:19.199
And I was still in my fledgling state of thinking and believing that even though I was 20, I still had doubts.
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.885
And, you know, how do you recover from that kind of life growing up?
00:55:22.925 --> 00:55:24.909
But often we don't recover.
00:55:24.929 --> 00:55:27.353
We still struggle for the rest of our lives because of our upbringing.
00:55:27.393 --> 00:55:33.172
But Anyway, the church and the gospel and the members did an extraordinary job at saving me.
00:55:33.532 --> 00:55:36.876
And I will always be deeply grateful for that.
00:55:36.976 --> 00:55:42.123
And I've never doubted a question that is actually what happened with Sean.
00:55:43.324 --> 00:55:49.273
I can't bear to think where I would be, Jim, if that church hadn't come into my life at that time.
00:55:49.793 --> 00:55:56.141
So anyway, I put the papers in, got called to Scotland, went to the MTC, did...
00:55:56.514 --> 00:56:00.663
Enjoyed that, did well at the MTC, asked a bunch of questions.
00:56:00.742 --> 00:56:03.228
Some of them were difficult to answer.
00:56:03.969 --> 00:56:09.400
It was quite intellectual, I think, some of the questions that I was asking, et cetera.
00:56:09.822 --> 00:56:12.929
But I jogged for the Book of Mormon that I'd heard about.
00:56:13.469 --> 00:56:16.916
I had a whole bunch of questions about Joseph Smith and the MTC, right?
00:56:17.601 --> 00:56:22.289
This is the time to ask questions, the time to do role plays.
00:56:22.349 --> 00:56:23.130
You listen to the tapes.
00:56:23.150 --> 00:56:26.036
This is when the tapes came in, the discussions at York Moon came in, et cetera.
00:56:26.476 --> 00:56:27.778
We did role plays in the MTC.
00:56:27.818 --> 00:56:32.626
I think it was there for three, three and a half weeks, essentially trying to simulate.
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That's also the first time you went through the temple, correct?
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It is.
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It is.
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I went through the temple.
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That was an experience as well for me that was quite...
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quite the cliffhanger, I'm afraid, because we've reached the end of the hour, and we will get into Ian's reaction to his first time through the temple in the next installment of Ian's story.
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Until then, we will see you next time on Inside Out.
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Inside Out