MaryEllen Tribby | The Secret to Sustainable Business Growth

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The first thing is accelerated failure. Everything you do is
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not going to succeed, So fail fast and move on.
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Don't fall in love with your product, your copy right.
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If it's a loser, cut it loose. So many entrepreneurs
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instead will make an excuse, Oh it's the economy. Oh
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the mail was on strike. Like they make excuses, cut
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it loose, don't fall in love with it. That's number one.
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Number two is ride the wave, and this is where
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you need to understand your numbers.
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Welcome to the Radical Responsibility Podcast. I'm doctor Fleet Maul,
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and I'm excited to guide you on a journey of
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authentic transformation. In each episode, I'll bring you insights from
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leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfulness practices, positive psychology,
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and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness, and life optimization. This
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is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change,
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helping you find alignment with the person you are always
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meant to be. Let's get started. What if transformation isn't
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just about thinking differently, but feeling differently. Science shows us
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that true change happens when we align not just our minds,
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but also the neural networks in our hearts and guts.
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This heart mind connection is the key to deeper healing, resilience,
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and expanded awareness. That's why I created the Heart Mind
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all access, membership and community, a space designed to help
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you rewire your nervous system, cultivate heart intelligence, and live
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with greater clarity and purpose. With over one thousand hours
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of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs. You'll
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learn from world renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists, and experts in neuroplasticity,
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all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset
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and heartset, regulate your emotions, and unlock your full potential.
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You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course
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we've ever produced, a Treasure Trouble Wisdom worth over ten
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thousand dollars in growing plus live gatherings, and an inspiring
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global community to support your journey. If you're ready to
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step into a more heart centered, connected and conscious life,
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I invite you to join us. Clip the link to
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learn more and start your journey today. What's the fastest
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way to scale your business is by learning to fail faster?
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This week, I sit down with Mary Ellen Trivia True
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force in the world of business growth, multi channel marketing,
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and conscious leadership. Mary Ellen has scaled multimillion dollar businesses,
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led major media companies, and built her own driving ventures,
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all while raising a family and living a life of
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intentional balance. What I love about Mary Ellen is how
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she pairs strategy with soul. She says sharp with the
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numbers and marketing systems, as she is passionate about living
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a balanced life where success and self care are not
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not oppositioned, but deeply intertwined. We dive into some powerful
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themes today, how to break through your next growth ceiling,
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how to lead your company with data and decisiveness, and
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how to craft campaigns that not only convert, but create momentum.
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We also talk about what it really means to fail
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fast and why that just might be your greatest growth strategy.
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Whether you're booststraffing your first business or leading a high
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growth company, this conversation offers a roadmap for scaling without
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losing your center. Let's drop in my name and doctor
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Flee Mall, the founder of Hardmain Institute and your co
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host for this session, and I'm very happy to be
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here today with Mary Ellen Triby.
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Welcome, Hello, thank you so much for having me.
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I'm always a little reluctant to ask our guests to
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encapsulate their origin story in just a minute or two.
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But we do have a lot to cover today, and
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so I'm going to ask you to kind of do
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that at a least highlight some aspects of it. So
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you have lead and scaled multimillion dollar businesses, a number
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of them. You've been in companies like Forbes, Weiss, research
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your own company early to rise, and building your own company.
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I mean you've gone back and forth I think from
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building your own company to consulting, to build out of
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the company, to work in the corpus sphere and building
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your own companies a big leap. So what made you
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decide to leap into the fray and build your own company,
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which you've done several times.
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Well, it was really interesting because coming from a very
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corporate background in New York City, I was in hardcore publishing.
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This was way before internet marketing, even info publishing was
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a thing. So, like you said at Forbes, Times Mirror
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Crane's New York business and you know, I don't want
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to use the B word, you know, for being bureaucratic,
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but there are a lot of layers right when you're
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in that kind of situation. They're big company, big budgets.
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But the beautiful thing about it is that for me,
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I learned each channel of marketing one at a time,
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because when you're in those companies, you don't wear zillion hats.
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You come up through the ranks. And there were, you know,
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there were years where I only worked on direct mail,
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and I became an expert in direct mail. There were
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years when I only worked on insert cards and magazines.
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There were years when I only worked on outbound calling.
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But it was all direct response. And so then when
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I moved to Florida, I went to Twice Research, and
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I was so fortunate to work with Martin Wise, who
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is a brilliant man. But what I saw there was
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the exact opposite where Martin wore many many hats. So
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I was really fortunate that I knew so much about
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direct response marketing, so many channels. I was able to
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take so much off him, And so it was really
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me and Martin and Clayton make Peace, one of the
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world's best copywriters who we lost several years ago, And
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so I learned so much from then. And then when
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I went to early to rise. You know, it's the
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working for Agora company is the closest thing that you
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can have besides starting your own company. And I really
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ran it the way I wanted to run it, and
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so I loved doing it. I loved teaching. And what
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we did is we take people how to start online businesses.
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And then, honestly, one day, and this is a very
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long story, my husband I thought was going to be
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bad news, which was that I had a breast cancer scare.
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And for three weeks we kind of went back and forth,
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didn't tell the kids, the kids were real small. We
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just went back and forth, going to doctors this and that.
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And the day I found out that I did not
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have breast cancer, I was perfectly healthy. I said to
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my husband, I'm starting my own thing, and he said, yes,
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you have to. And I went in the next day
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and resigned from what was the best job I've ever had,
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making a lot of money running things the way I wanted.
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But I knew at that point I wanted to teach
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working moms how to have a better life, and I
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knew I could do. I was the person because I
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had three kids, because I had was running very large companies,
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and so that is really what got me going on
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starting my own company. And when I left Agora to
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start working momsonly dot com, people just asked me to consult.
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I never planned on having a consulting company, but people
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knew what I had done and they just kept asking
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me to consult. And that's how my consulting company was born.
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So really what we did is we started a media
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company which was met Edge that incorporated info publishing, consulting, speaking,
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and book writing.
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Wow, that's quaet the story. Yeah, And while it's such
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a broad experience, I almost on a where to start
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if you've been all over the place here. I hope
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we have aspiring entrepreneurs in our audience. I hope we
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have some leaders from corporate that because I think it's
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a lot for everybody to learn here, as well as
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maybe entrepreneurs that are pursuing the venture capital route. But
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I suspect the majority of our audience our bootstrapping entrepreneurs.
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And as you know, entrepreneurs run into various ceilings and
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major bumps in the road. Often it's you know, maybe
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you're a solorepreneur and you're trying to figure out how
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to finally build a team, you know, and you're just
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you're surrounded yourself, maybe with some helpers, but you don't
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know how to break out of that mold of doing
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everything yourself.
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Or maybe you've gotten beyond that.
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You built a team and you're hitting that kind of
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three to four million dollars a year in revenue ceiling
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where things have to change for you to keep growing.
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The whole notion of being able to scale and all
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on the way as an entrepreneur, we have to change. Now.
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We're bring in different people with the greater levels of expertise,
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people who know how to do things we don't know
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how to do. But we still have to run the company.
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As it gets bigger and bigger, it gets more complex.
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We have to grow and evolve. So I wonder if
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you could talk about, because I know you teach this
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a lot, and how you help entrepreneurs break through these
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various barriers where they have to change. The game has
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to change in order to keep growing and keep scaling.
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Yes, And the first thing that I always tell people
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is everybody has the same twenty four hours in a
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day because you run, you know, a million dollar company,
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and you at somebody else runs a ten million dollar company.
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That person who runs a ten million dollar company, they
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don't get any more hours in a day. And really
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what it comes down to is for successful people is
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spending that time doing the right thing right Like entrepreneurs, again,
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they think they have to do everything, when in reality
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they have to what I like to call like the
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three d's. They have to decide what to do. They
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have to delegate, delegate, and they have to duplicate. Right
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Like for me, there should never be one person who
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can do your graphic design. There should never be one
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person who does your copy, and a lot of folks,
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especially after all the entrepreneurs I know in this information
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marketing or digital marketing space, they think they're the only
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one who can write copy. And this is a really
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good example because somebody should never write copy for their
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own product, right that person should be the copy chief.
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You need to have someone writing your copy, who can
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explain it, who can get to the pain points the
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benefits as good as you can. Right, so you need
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to duplicate. Your talents can't just be you. But and
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often with those twenty four hours in a day, if
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you really looked at what you needed to do, you
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would say do I actually really need to do that?
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What would happen if I didn't do that? And that's
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what people don't you first, They jump without looking at
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the reality of the product or the campaign and what's
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going to make this successful, And a lot of things
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are done that really don't need to be done.
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So I have a question about that, you know. So
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I think for a lot of certainly solopreneurs and even
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entrepreneurs with a small team maybe think well, that's all
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well and good. Yeah, go get myself a really good
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copyretor they cost a lot of money.
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Right.
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There's always that tension of as you build out your team,
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especially if you're really you know, hiring really good people
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and hiring people that are smart, and you are in
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various roles and have the expertise. You know, you can
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see what was maybe a very profitable business to begin
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with starts to become a lot more challenging as you
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grow that team and your profits begin to evaporate, and
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so an EBB and flow, I guess of being willing
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to invest and figure what's.
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The ROI on this?
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You know, how long is it going to take hiring
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that copywriter or hire this other perspect to get those
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that pay off, but I am going to have to
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go through some risk and some ebb and flows and profitability.
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I wonder if you could describe that journey for entrepreneurs,
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because I think we all find ourselves in those places
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and it could be scary sometimes.
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Yes, and that is true, and that is why you
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need to find a copywriter who will work on royalties, right,
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So basically, have them write that piece and then if
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it works and you roll out, then you're paying them
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based on rolling out. And if you're rolling out, that
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means it's working, right. And the other thing about hiring copywriters,
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and most people don't understand this, ask that copywriter to
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do the right work. It's not just a sales letter, right,
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it's a sales letter, and then it's five swipes, and
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it's five subject lines and it's five ads, right, like
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they don't slice and dice up that long form copy.
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You know, And any copywriter who wants to be one
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and done, it's not your person, right, that's not your person.
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I have to understand how to hire them. And you know,
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and I always say, you know, ask people, ask their recommendations.
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Anyone who is starting their own business should be in
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some sort of mastermind. And it doesn't have to be
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the thirty thousand dollars a year of mastermind. It can
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be a local mastermind, right. You know, entrepreneurs, you don't
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have to go to loan even if you're starting right,
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there's so many resources. Ask who you should hire? Ask
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what are the questions I need to ask this person?
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What are their duties? Right? You know, if you were
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hiring copywriter, what are they going to do for you?
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What are they going to do for you? You know
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when I had Clayton on there, I paid Clayton one
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year seven million dollars and I loved it. You know
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why because we were making so much money. So anybody
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who thinks in your company, oh, you're paying them too
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much money. And if you're not doing it the right way,
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maybe you are. But if you're doing it the right way,
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you want to pay them a lot of money.
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Yeah, especially if it's based on some incentive basis like that,
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like a relative, because is obviously making money, you're making
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even more so you have grown a couple of companies,
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as I share in your bio, and in some pretty
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extraordinary ways, from one from eight million to twenty six
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million to fifteen months, another from eleven million to sixty
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seven million just one year. I mean, has extraordinary growth
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growth under any conditions. And so what are some of
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the I mean, we've talked a little bit about that,
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just an essensible copywriter, but in broader terms, the whole
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issue of scaling and the challenges that you went into.
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How can we scale rapidly without scaling ourselves into trouble
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pretty quickly?
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The first thing is accelerated failure. Everything you do is
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not going to succeed, So fail fast and move on.
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Don't fall in love with your product, your copy right,
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if it's a loser, cut it loose. So many entrepreneurs
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instead will make an excuse, Oh it's the economy, Oh
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the mail was on strike. They make excuses. Cut it loose,
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don't fall in love with it. That's number one. Number
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two is ride the wave. And this is where you
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need to understand your numbers. So, for example, when we
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were at Once and Clayton was our copywriter and he
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was basically working on royalties, they couldn't mail before I
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got there more than ten thousand pieces a month. But
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when I got there, because I understood what my numbers
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would do, we went from ten thousand pieces a month
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to fifty thousand, to one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand.
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We got to a point where you were mailing three
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million pieces a month, and he was making a royalty
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on every single piece in the mail. But why we
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were able to do that is because I knew what
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we called back then doubling dates. And this is gonna
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matter because I'm going to turn it over to online terms.
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So a doubling date, essentially in the mail means you know,
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at what point can I double those results. So if
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we were mailing a number ten envelope, your doubling date
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would be ten days, So wherever you wore it ten days,
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you would double that and that's where you'd end up.
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Hence I didn't have to wait ninety days for results.
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I waited ten days. If we were mailing a larger
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piece what we called a tabloid hence looked like a
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tabloid that you see in the markets, that kind of piece,
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I knew our doubling date was fourteen days, so again
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I didn't have to wait one hundred days. I wait
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at fourteen and then I was able to go. So basically,
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excuse me by your doubling date. Are you talking about
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you could double your investment the cost to them? Well,
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your results, I'm sorry. So my goal for the mail
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was one hundred percent ROI right, And if I knew
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at ten days I was at fifty sixty percent, I
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was golden, right, and so I didn't have to wait.
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But most people will say, oh, I have to wait.
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My goal is one hundred percent, so they're not moving
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until they get to one hundred percent, right, and that's
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ninety days out as opposed to ten days out. So
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I was able to go. So you have to ride
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that wave. So I know that when I put something
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online that my doubling date is essentially forty hours that right,
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because it's online. So I can look where I am
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in forty hours, and I know where I'm going to
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end up, so I don't have to wait a week.
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I know my doubling date, I can ride the wave,
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and I know my long tail. So it's all about
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understanding those numbers and really analyzing your data. Right. So
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the next time anybody puts anything you know online that
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you're going to send out, look where you are after
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a day after forty eight you know, forty eight hours right,
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like where are you and look at the difference of
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where you are, so that you know that you don't
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have to wait those extra days that if you have
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if you test with one hundred thousand, and after two days,
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if you've got a list of three or four hundred,
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now you can go to the whole list because you
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can go five times. Right. Essentially, you always like five
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times those numbers that you mail initially.
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Well, if you have the data that shows something's working,
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put your foot on the gas.
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Yeah, you ride that wave. We had a promo for
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early Derise that did one promo did seventeen million dollars
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and it was the best promo in Agora history until,
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of course Porter Stansbury crushed it like three years later.
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But it was seventeen million dollars on one promotion.
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Let's ship that into There may be people in an
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audience doing direct mail marketing and advertising, but a lot
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of people are doing digital marketing today. They're advertising through meta,
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through Google, through YouTube, and maybe they're on LinkedIn, which
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is pretty expensive. But there are a lot of different
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marketing channels. I wonder if you could talk about multi
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channel marketing email, which could include other means of marketing.
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Other times we advertyes in a direct mail, But this
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is all multi channel approach to marketing.
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Yes, and so this is what's really important. What people
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should know that basically, people who use two or more channels,
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somebody who responds to you and two or more channels
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are essentially fifty percent more valuable to you. Somebody who
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responds to you in three or more channels is a
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hundred percent more valuable to you. Okay, but here's what
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you need to do when you're doing multichannel marketing. You
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need to make sure, regardless if you've got a Facebook ad,
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you're on Instagram, you're putting something into your own list
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or renting list, that you keep the tone and the
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feel of that marketing consistent because people need to see
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something on an average three and a half times before
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they respond. Did you ever hear when you're driving your
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car and you hear a commercial, a fifteen second commercial,
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and then the next commercial is the exact same commercial, right,
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Like we've all heard that, and so that is because
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people need to hear it over and over. So that's
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why multi channel marketing is so effective. You know, keep it,
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don't confuse your audience, keep your offer the same once
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you've tested it, and you know what your control is,
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Keep the colors the same, keep the tone the same,
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you know, because basically you're talking to the same person,
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the same prospect, just in different channels.
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So I know a lot of your marketing work is
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neuroscience and form brand based. So what you're talking about,
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by keeping the branding consistent, by taking the tone consistent,
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the color is consistent, the messaging consistent, you're creating an
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imprint and that from neural architecture possibility for them to
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make a buying decision.
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Yes.
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Absolutely.
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That is why when people do those big launches that
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everyone's seen, that swipe copy is very you know, is
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often very similar, right, because gosh, I got this email
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yesterday that said this from so and so. Then I
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got it today and it says the same thing, but
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it's from this person. And then I got it, you
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know again the next day and it's from this person. Well,
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they must all know something, right, So that is why
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they give you maybe an option of two or three
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swipes if you're involved in something like that, because they
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want to keep it consistent and because people have to
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see it multiple times.
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In many way. I mean this may not be true
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across all marketing channels, but in some ways marketing channels
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have become more expensive. There's really a high demand for them.
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I remember when we did our very first online so
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that we got Facebook or meta leads for forty six cents.
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They're quite a bit more expensive than now. And often
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people have a lot of budgetary pressures and so forth,
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And when you're even an early stage or even a
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later stage entrepreneur or you can be really concerned about
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profitability and budget and so forth. So I wonder if
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there's one marketing channel or marketing strategy that you feel
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is particularly strategic, particularly leveraged, and maybe often overlooked, that
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I could have in their war chest to really get traction.
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I'm going to tell you my absolute favorite thing to do,
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and so many people don't do this. They go to Facebook.
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My favorite marketing channel is renting dedicated email lists and
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sending them out with your offer. And I want to
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share why when you are doing ads. Look at all
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the competition on that page right when someone's doing ads,
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there's so much competition for the reader's attention. When you
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are renting an email list and then putting your copy
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your message in there when somebody sees that the only
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thing they're looking at on their computer is your message. Okay.
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In this I don't know if people know who Russell
408
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Brunson is. I'm sure they do. And he wrote this
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because he interviewed me a few years ago on his
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podcast and he put this in his book and because
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he was new to him that basically, people are always
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trying to do new offers, new products instead of expanding
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their universe. Once can you have something that's working. You
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rent these lists and you go out with your offer,
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and the beautiful thing, it's all numbers, right, You're going
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to find out before you mail from this list approximately
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their open rate and approximately their click You're going to
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know from your own list what that optim page can do,
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so you can do the math on that way before
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you decide to mail. So you are going out there with,
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you know, with some risk, but not a lot. And
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the reason people don't do this, it's because it's a
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bigger upfront, right, Like you're going to have to spend
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twenty twenty five hundred dollars to rent a list, depending
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on which industry you're in. I'll just say if you're
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in that personal development niche. You can get a really
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nice list for about twenty two hundred dollars with over
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two hundred thousand names. You should have no problem breaking
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even on that list within thirty days if you do
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it correctly.
431
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So, yeah, I have a question about this. You know
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a person in argument. We have our own list and
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we also work with a lot of affiliates where they
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mail for us. Right, we also mail for affiliates. But
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renting a list, how do we do that in today's
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world of privacy sensitivity and spam concerns and all this,
437
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How do we actually rent email lists or to mail
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out without ending up and those kind of problems?
439
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:51.000
Oh? Easy, PC. Basically, there are list brokers and that
440
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.039
is their whole job, and basically the list that they're
441
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:58.119
renting to you have all agreed that they could receive
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third party community medication, and the list does not. Now,
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00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:08.000
the list doesn't come to you. You send your copy
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to the list broker. The list broker then mails it
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for the list owner. Okay, nobody should ever give their
446
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list away to anybody, right, that's bad. But every list
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you rent, their community has said that they will receive
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third party communications.
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I see, I got so can't really upload massive list
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your own email provider anyway. Now, at some point, these
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00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.160
email list brokers are similar to affiliates in a certain way,
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except they're not working on a commission. They're just upfront
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charging a fee. Right.
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You know, a long time ago I was working with
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Rich Scheffer and helping him with some campaigns, and he
456
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:51.759
said to me, oh, Mary Allan, we did a reciprocal
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I won't name the company, and basically we did so well.
458
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I made sixty thousand dollars. They got thirty grand and
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we got thirty grand, and I said, riches. That's great,
460
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:02.920
but you know that list is on the market for
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three thousand dollars. So when you rent a list, basically
462
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:09.519
you pay what you pay and then you get what
463
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.599
you get. So if you pay twenty two hundred and
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you make five grand, fantastic, right, and some a I'm
465
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going to be bombs. They won't all win. But once
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you test and you have list history, and this is
467
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.440
so important. People don't keep a list history, and you
468
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.359
should do it not just with list rentals, you should
469
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.440
do it with affiliates as well. Right, you should have
470
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a spreadsheet that has every affiliate mailing for you. What
471
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.640
the open rate was. I mean, we'll get to those
472
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.000
metrics later, you know, with all this data on it,
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So you build a list history, and then if your
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affiliates are working, then go out and rent a like list, right,
475
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.119
a list that's like that that you can rent and
476
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instead of giving fifty percent away, you're renting it out
477
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a flat fee and keeping what you get.
478
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.200
Well, we are going to get into the metrics now,
479
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.480
so I'd like to talk further. You've been referencing it
480
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all along, You've referenced in that doubling date before and
481
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when you're doing the direct mail. Let's talk about the
482
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:12.960
importance of data and doing data driven marketing of all kinds,
483
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.160
whether it's multi channel marketing, all our efforts are right
484
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.440
data driven. So can you talk about the kind of
485
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.480
data we need to collect and how we really make
486
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.279
data informed decisions?
487
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:25.599
Yes? And this is one of my core values at
488
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:31.000
my company is to know your results. Okay, know your results? Okay. So,
489
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.440
first of all, too many entrepreneurs get caught up in
490
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:37.680
the cool factors I kind of call it right, when
491
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.720
in reality you should be able to manage your business
492
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:44.240
like on the back of a napkin. Right, So if
493
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.400
you understand your open rates, your clicks, your conversions, and
494
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.599
your CPL you don't need all these fancy charts and
495
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.279
graphics like it always cracks me up when everybody wants
496
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.799
to put something in a chart and a like I
497
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.640
just needed, you know, on an Excel spreadsheet. That's all
498
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:05.680
I need, right, So if I know that I can
499
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:11.480
predict and make my assumptions all day long. Okay, those
500
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.720
are the numbers you need to understand. You know. The
501
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.400
other thing I always like to say first to people
502
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:21.880
because before your marketing is that you need to understand
503
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.920
what I like to call keep your door open number. Right,
504
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.319
keep your doors open number? How much money do you
505
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.279
need to make every single day so that you are
506
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.480
covering your hard cost and then your variables? Right? But
507
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.880
mostly you know if you've got a budget of X
508
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.920
amount of dollars per marketing per a month. You know
509
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.519
your rent, you know the salaries, you know employment tax,
510
00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:49.240
you know all those little you know your software costs.
511
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.720
How much money every day do you need to make
512
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.799
to just to break even? And most entrepreneurs don't know
513
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.079
that number, and that's really important because you know, so
514
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:02.920
if you don't know that, just knowing your open clicks,
515
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.799
conversions and see pails. It's not enough right before you
516
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.359
know what you have to make a day, because then
517
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.799
you're going to need to know exactly what you have
518
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.119
many emails you need to send every day, or how
519
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.039
many direct mail pieces you need to send every month? Right,
520
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:20.920
So you have to know that number first, make sure
521
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:24.640
you do, and then you start out. Then you go
522
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:27.440
back to your marketing numbers and make sure you understand
523
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:27.960
what they are.
524
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:31.359
Right. So knowing those numbers, your referencing can really help
525
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:35.240
us budget and target our marketing efforts. What about further
526
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:38.960
testing to really test what improves those numbers? Right? How
527
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.400
can the copy the color of an ad, the style
528
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.720
of all the variables that we can tweak testing to
529
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.519
get the best numbers possible.
530
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:52.480
Yes, and honestly, for me, you test things that scream.
531
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.279
You test things that make a difference. You are not
532
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.400
looking for, you know, a half a percent here, in
533
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.519
a one percent here. You're looking for a good at
534
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.759
least a ten percent lift, hopefully twenty twenty five percent lift.
535
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:11.400
That's what you're looking for. And so basically most entrepreneurs
536
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.680
don't test enough, right, So if you have your control right,
537
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.559
you have something that works, then every time you mail,
538
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:24.079
you should be taking twenty percent of your mailing and
539
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.480
turning it into a test. Okay, but you don't do
540
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.359
eighty percent control and twenty percent test. What you do
541
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:37.079
is sixty percent control. The next panel is the same
542
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:42.480
size control twenty percent against the test twenty percent, because
543
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.319
you need to measure those the twenty percent to the
544
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.960
twenty percent, not eighty percent to that twenty percent. Does
545
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.039
that make sense? So that's really important. That's what people do.
546
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.880
They'll just go test and they'll be like, oh, this
547
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.960
thousand quantity, you know, beat my control of ninety nine
548
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.759
you know, or vice versa, right, whatever that is of
549
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:05.839
ninety nine thousand. No, they need to be of equal
550
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.319
sizes to test. So that all that and this is
551
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.559
extra work, right, And that's why people don't do it,
552
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.119
because now instead of mailing one list or you know size,
553
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.920
you're mailing three list. You're creating three lists inside of
554
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:24.000
keep or maripost or whatever you're using. Okay, so you
555
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.279
have to when you start and you go out and
556
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.519
get a CRM or an email service provider, make sure
557
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.480
they have the ability to test.
558
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.839
One of the things we test in businesses, price testing.
559
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.559
I know you've been involved in I think both B
560
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.480
to B and B two C businesses and some B
561
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:45.720
two C businesses and the sort of personal developments basically
562
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.759
even supporting working moms and things like that. As these
563
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:53.799
businesses and these niches developed, there often can be a
564
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:56.240
lot of saturation and kind of race to the bottom
565
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.119
and everybody's price testing and at lower prices keep winning
566
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.000
because everybody is lowering their prices. How do you work
567
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.319
with that? Because at a certain point the niche is
568
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.359
not going to be viable if you just participate in
569
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.559
that race to the bottom, right, So you have to
570
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.079
find some way to combine price testing with how to
571
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:17.799
fundamentally position your product or your service right in terms.
572
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.759
Of press Yes, and a lot of times it is not,
573
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:25.039
you know, about the price as much as it's about
574
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:29.720
the perceived value of something. So for me, especially if
575
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.839
they're already your customers, right and you want to you know,
576
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.720
have them keep buying. You know, the first thing is
577
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.960
a whole mind shift of This is not an email list.
578
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:44.680
This is a community of like minded folks who have
579
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.480
trusted you to help them solve a problem. Right, And
580
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.799
one of our very first core values is to love, respect,
581
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:57.279
and protect our customers. So getting that through your the
582
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:02.319
entire team's mind is a must. Everybody must think like that. Now,
583
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:04.640
if you have a customer and you don't want to
584
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:10.279
lower prices add something onto it. Right, they're already your customer.
585
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.440
And if you have a digital product, what harm is
586
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:19.720
it to give them something else with that higher price. Yes,
587
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.680
it's a little higher price, but they're getting twice as
588
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.400
much now, So I would much rather keep my higher
589
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:30.480
price and add onto that to bundle something onto that,
590
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.400
as opposed to lower the price on something new. I'm
591
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:34.839
going out.
592
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.599
So what have you found when you're doing ab testing
593
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.400
with various kinds of offers, What if you found are
594
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.440
some of the most critical things to test?
595
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:48.000
Well, Basically, price is always good, but I know, like honestly,
596
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.160
I know my community so well, so I know where
597
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.119
their price point is. So the best thing that you
598
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:57.680
should be testing price on is actually on an up sell.
599
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.720
So many folks don't. I don't have an up sell
600
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:05.559
all right, And now, if someone has just purchased a product,
601
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:11.199
your upsell product should be it should be about it
602
00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:17.039
could fifty percent of your the initial product, right, and
603
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:20.960
my upsells. Now they come in about like they're at
604
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.239
like seventy sixty nine to seventy one percent of the
605
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:27.639
folks will take that up sell. So what does that
606
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.639
do to your average unit of sell? It just bumps
607
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:34.960
it like crazy. So test that because the beautiful thing
608
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:40.079
is you have the initial buy. So test that up
609
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.320
sell price. It's not just about the initial price, but
610
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.840
the upsell price. And you could test. So what I
611
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:49.199
would do if you have never done this, I would
612
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.519
take the price of the initial product. I would test
613
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.119
a product that's ten percent higher of the initial product,
614
00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.960
and then I would test one that's fifty percent. And again,
615
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.400
see that's what screams. I'm not saying ten percent and
616
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:06.119
eleven percent, right, I'm testing things that screen. And so
617
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:10.079
you've got people who have already made that purchase. They know,
618
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.559
they like, they trust you, But the bottom line is
619
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.760
they have to also say I believe this person can
620
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.800
help me. And that's the main thing there. That's piece
621
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.840
that most people miss. They always do no I can trust,
622
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.679
but no like trust and I believe this person can
623
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:30.679
help me. So that up cell needs to be how
624
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:34.840
can this really help the customer as the original product
625
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.679
should be, but this is real perceived value. And with
626
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:42.239
that we always say we could easily sell this for
627
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:46.840
twice as much, right easily, But since you've already purchased this,
628
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.079
we want to make sure that you get the most
629
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:49.559
out of it.
630
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:51.920
So I want to circle back to testing in just
631
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.519
a moment. But the upsell you mentioned in some very
632
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.079
high up cell rates. So what are somebody and you
633
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.199
just mentioned a little bit you're positioning that upsell, But
634
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.079
what are some other elements in terms of the alignment
635
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.760
between the initial product and the upsell? Well, what are
636
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.239
some of the other elements that lead to successful upseell?
637
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:09.199
Besides pricing?
638
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:13.599
Definitely, like you said, the alignment right that you want
639
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:17.320
to take this to the highest possible level of success.
640
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.280
This is going to get you there. Okay, that is
641
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.800
going to get you there. Another thing that we have
642
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.280
that is what we always call that agore one step
643
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:34.000
removed is because our business is neuroscience and soundtracks and
644
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:38.320
so everything for your brain, we have the best possible
645
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.280
headphones and earbuds that you could buy anywhere. Right, So
646
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.519
now that's very actually a really high price because we're
647
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:51.519
all about frequency and you know, the soundtracks, so many
648
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:57.199
headphones or EarPods can't deliver that, right, So if you
649
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.480
want to get the most out of this soundtrack, this
650
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:02.280
set is what's going to get you there.
651
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:04.880
Let's create another question point, but I want to banish
652
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.360
up on this testing. So from what I heard you say,
653
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.840
probably testing doing a b testing with things like the
654
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:14.000
color of the call to action button or other things
655
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.760
like that that people have tested and there are you
656
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:17.800
can read and there's controversies about what color is the
657
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:20.000
best in this and that, but those things are probably
658
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:23.880
going to give incremental advantages. And so you're really focusing
659
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.000
your testing and the time and effort that it takes
660
00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:27.960
to do this kind of testing, as you said, on
661
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:30.079
things that are going to scream a difference. Right, So
662
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:32.159
a lot of that stuff that where you be testing
663
00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:35.239
colors or structures or they may be value to do
664
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:37.079
if you're a huge company and you can, you know,
665
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:39.480
get micro improvements are going to make a big difference,
666
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:42.400
but small entrepreneurs you probably need the things that are
667
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:43.960
really going to make a big difference. Is that what
668
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:44.360
I hear you.
669
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.280
Saying absolutely, And this is what I just want to
670
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:50.639
say to everybody, is that again, when I say screen,
671
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:56.000
you testings at screen. For example, never ever blend the
672
00:37:56.039 --> 00:38:00.639
color of your buy now button to make it look pretty. Right,
673
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.800
So if you have a red, white and blue page
674
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.679
and then you've got like a navy part and then
675
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:09.480
you have a red button in there, what you're doing
676
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:12.480
is you're blending and you're trying to make it look pretty.
677
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.960
Direct response marketing isn't about pretty, it's about effectiveness. So
678
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:20.480
just go for the orange button. I'm telling you now.
679
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.599
If you have a pink page and you put that
680
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.360
light pink, you know, buy now button because you think
681
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.320
you're going to women in the like that, no, put
682
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:30.840
the orange button.
683
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:31.480
Right.
684
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.079
If did you ever go to Amazon and not have
685
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:38.360
an orange button? Right? Just put the orange button. Don't
686
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.960
blend those colors. You make that cta screen. You make
687
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.320
it pop. Like when people send me their pages to
688
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:48.880
look at them, and I just like, no, it's not
689
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.159
about blending. It's not about looking pretty. It's about being effective,
690
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:56.519
and just simple things like that. I'm telling like, right now,
691
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:59.679
just change your buttons, change them to orange unless your
692
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:02.079
page is aren't right. But the other thing that people
693
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.920
do is you'll see this in copy a lot, especially
694
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.440
on headlines. It's really bad people will have a headline
695
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:13.000
and they go in out, in, out in, And that's
696
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:17.039
not how your eye wants to read something, right, I
697
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:21.119
wants to read a nice inverted triangle. Take that headline.
698
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:25.039
Make sure it's an inverted triangle, you know, test it
699
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:30.360
tomorrow on your page, right like that you want. Readability
700
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.519
is the most important thing on a page. And when
701
00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:38.239
your margins are like this, like your brain just it
702
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.320
doesn't like it, so it ops out, essentially your brain.
703
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:45.719
So you've got to make it readable. The most important
704
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:49.559
thing of any page, a sales letter, a landing page,
705
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.840
a order form, it doesn't matter readability.
706
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.320
We have a very successful affiliate partner. We does a
707
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.960
lot of testing and very kindly gathers our top affiliate
708
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.280
together once here and shares a lot of their research
709
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.719
and so. But if they did a lot of testing
710
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:06.880
on styles of sales pages, and the one that went
711
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:09.519
out was what they called the ugly sales page. It
712
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.320
was just clear information with the orange button kind of thing,
713
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.800
and it wasn't treaty and it beat everything else. Yeah, absolutely,
714
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.639
really interesting. Coming back, you mentioned the earbuds and the
715
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.440
headphones and so forth, because you're selling digital products that
716
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:25.760
people are going to listen to. Right, what about people
717
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:28.400
who are selling digital products and you know, I have
718
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:31.280
built a customer base, and you know they're what about
719
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.119
adding physical products now and getting into e commerce? Right?
720
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.360
You know, obviously the earbuds and the headphones almost sound
721
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:41.000
like a no brainer, right Where people need to quality.
722
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:43.639
You know, if you were listening, if you're kind of
723
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:47.559
doing some kind of you know, neuro feedback type meditation
724
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:50.800
device that requires headphones, you're going to want good sounds, right,
725
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.239
But there could be other things. If you have a community,
726
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:56.800
you may want to start to market swag of various kinds.
727
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:58.840
You might want to create a supplement line. You might
728
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:01.119
it's a whole different business to get into that physical
729
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.239
products and do e commerce. But does that make sense
730
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.239
for an entrepreneur and you know, do they have to
731
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.679
maybe a whole different business model the master I don't know,
732
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.559
maybe it could just create confusion or something. But I'm
733
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:15.559
curious about your thoughts about that or where you've seen
734
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:17.079
people be successful in that way.
735
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:20.519
You really again there you really need to know your
736
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:26.039
numbers and don't overorder, right, don't overorder. But the other
737
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.360
thing that you can do is you can dry test
738
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:33.079
and you can also find partners who have that product. Right,
739
00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:36.800
So find a partner who is selling that or someone,
740
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:41.199
become their affiliate and see if it resonates before you
741
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.480
go out and spend all the money on it. You know,
742
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.039
that's the cheapest R and D you're ever gonna do. Right.
743
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.239
So even like gosh, clickbank, right, like clickbank, there's a
744
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:55.880
zillion orders on clickbank. Go find something there, right, go.
745
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.960
You know, if you're in brain and maybe you want
746
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:01.679
to test laser, is it right, so red light therapy
747
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:05.039
or whatever. You know, there's plenty of people who create that,
748
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:10.079
who have affiliate programs. Become their affiliate first and find
749
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:14.280
out if your audience really likes it. You know, doing
750
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:17.920
that as opposed to doing a focus group or a survey, right,
751
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.199
is so much more effective because if you're doing that
752
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.880
kind of survey, no one's opening their wallet, right, so
753
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.280
they can say whatever they want to say. But if
754
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.440
you send that out in the mail, right, and then
755
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:33.800
even if you're only collecting ten percent or something on it,
756
00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:37.239
it's only there for research, it's okay then, and if
757
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.599
it's a huge hit, then do your own product, but
758
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:44.519
do that first and say, you know, the same thing
759
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:48.159
with you know, supplements. There are so many people. You know,
760
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.599
Daniel Aman has great supplements, right, So if you want
761
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.760
to go out there and start a supplement company, go
762
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.320
to Daniel. He'll give you a good break by something
763
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:58.719
in bulk. It doesn't have to be a lot, right,
764
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:00.519
you know, and send his complements.
765
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:05.159
See very wise. So we've been talking, you know, in
766
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:09.039
some ways about how to expand and our existing customer base,
767
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:12.000
but we've also talked a lot about acquiring customers. And
768
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:15.480
acquiring customers is very expensive, and some of us don't
769
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:19.840
focus enup on two things. One how to increase our
770
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:23.000
customer value over time, our customer value over time in
771
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.679
terms of how they upsells and cross seals and additional products,
772
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.480
high ticket products and so forth. And then the other
773
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:33.239
thing is customer retention. And sometimes the two of those
774
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:37.000
can seem a little bit in intention. Sometimes our effort
775
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.760
to sell more to our existing customers can cause some
776
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.400
customers to leave because they don't want us to keep
777
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:45.840
trying to sell them things. But we want to keep
778
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:48.480
our good customers and keep them happy. So I wonder
779
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.440
if you could talk about both those things, and then
780
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:52.000
how you balance the two of them.
781
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:56.639
Sure, because they're both equally important. And again, you know,
782
00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:58.639
in the old days in New York, you would have
783
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:03.119
different people doing you know, new business acquisition compared to retention,
784
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.480
and we don't because we need to know all the numbers.
785
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:12.159
But with keeping customers, you know, we do things that
786
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:17.280
are only for our customers, right Like we hold what
787
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:21.159
we call coaching casts calls where we focus on a
788
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.920
very specific topic and our customers can come on. It's free.
789
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.679
We do it at least once a month, and it's
790
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:34.119
adding such value for them. They come on, ask questions
791
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.559
live right and sometimes it's on trauma, like the topic.
792
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.880
Sometime it's on procrastination. You know. We always have a
793
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:46.119
very specific topic and we send that out, you know,
794
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:47.800
a week in advance so they can put on their
795
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:51.880
calendars and man, we'll have hundreds of people on this call.
796
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:56.639
But then we will always do something for them. Whether
797
00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:00.880
we're launching something new, we will give them the discount
798
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.039
because it's a pre sale. We might not be able
799
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.119
to go out with a new product for a week
800
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:07.519
after that, but we'll say right now, you're going to
801
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:11.800
get X amount of dollars off this. Again, they are customers,
802
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.559
so what if they're getting twenty bucks off an eighty
803
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.480
nine dollars digital product, they're already customers, right, and so
804
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:21.760
we know what we can expect off those calls. And
805
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:25.119
that is key what you said the first time, which
806
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:29.519
is understanding the lifetime value of your customer. So if
807
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:33.599
you're starting your business six months in, you should start
808
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:38.159
looking at lifetime value, right, and then do it again
809
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.559
out a year, do it again at eighteen months, do
810
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:43.960
it again at two years, and understand what that is.
811
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.400
Because if you understand what somebody is going to bring
812
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.800
you within two years, now you know that maybe you
813
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.679
know you know that CPL right, that's a very cost
814
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:57.320
per lead, that's a really really important number. But you
815
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.599
also know that you know, just because you can get
816
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.679
names in at two dollars and thirty four cents, does
817
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.480
it mean you can't go to a different channel now
818
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:10.400
might cost five dollars a name, right, Because I know
819
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:13.360
with my dedicated email list how much it cost me
820
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.960
exactly to get new names in compared to what it
821
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.480
costs me exactly if I go on meta right, and frankly,
822
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.800
the meta names are always more expensive, But if I
823
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.400
know my lifetime value, So what if they're more expensive.
824
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.440
If I know, I'm still going to end up at
825
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:35.480
X dollars after twenty four months, so what right? So
826
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:39.880
understanding the lifetime value of your customers is key, and
827
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:44.039
start it at six months if you're starting your business now.
828
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:46.519
And what are some of the other keys to customer
829
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:50.000
attention you talked about adding value? You provide multi cooching
830
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.800
calls which really support them and what they're trying to do.
831
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.480
What are so many other ways that you really work
832
00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:56.480
at customer retention?
833
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:01.400
We apt We send them customer support video throughout their journey.
834
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:06.559
So our flagship product is called the Holesting Solution. And actually,
835
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:10.039
if you do this product correctly, it'll take you ten years.
836
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:11.960
Mean you know, some people might be done in seven
837
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:15.039
or six, but if you're doing this correctly, where you're
838
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.480
spending the correct amount of time on each level, it'll
839
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:24.119
take you all that time. So basically sending them videos
840
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.440
of how it works, answering you know, having fah on
841
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:33.159
those videos at all times. We send them support letters constantly,
842
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:35.880
not just a thank you. It's not just thank you
843
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.440
for buying this product. If you need anything, call us,
844
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:42.880
We contact them how are you doing? We will say
845
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.719
you know, we'll ask them to fill out little you know,
846
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.000
little surveys that aren't you know, for new products. It's
847
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.719
on you know, how did you feel after a month,
848
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.480
how did you feel after two months? And we'll give
849
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.199
them options, right, so that constant communication. You know, again,
850
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.159
it's not look looking at them as a list. It's
851
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.719
looking at them of a community of like minded folks.
852
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.639
It could be your mother, it could be your grandmother,
853
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:11.199
it could be your brother. Right, that's how you have
854
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.079
to think of your community. And if you don't think,
855
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.960
if you only think of them as a list, it's
856
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:19.039
they're not going to last.
857
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:23.039
So if we're I mean, people are highly sensitive to
858
00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:26.280
emails these days. On the one, I hear you saying,
859
00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:29.679
communicate a lot with your customers. Communicate reactively with your
860
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:33.320
customers and provide them lots of support and resources, small surveys,
861
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:35.719
all these kind of things. But that's a lot of emails.
862
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:38.760
You're going to drive some unsubscribed with all that. So
863
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:42.960
how do you balance engaging your community for retention versus
864
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.760
you know, undermining retention because of the volume of contact, Tommy,
865
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.679
how do you figure that out?
866
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:54.880
Because we always have content that is not promotional, So
867
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.599
we had started. You know, we always have what I
868
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.239
like to call an inbox magazine that goes out out.
869
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:04.320
It's essentially value driven and it's written like you know,
870
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.960
when you write to your folks, you're writing to one
871
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:09.480
person at a time, Like I am never going to
872
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:12.880
say dear you know, subscriber, or do this. I'm always
873
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.800
going to say dear Fleet right, you know, dear Frank,
874
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.960
dear Mary right, and one person at a time. That's
875
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:24.599
one will always send a content piece every week, another
876
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:28.280
content piece that says, what do you think? You know,
877
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.559
this is the topic, and then I just want to
878
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.480
know what you think. Please reply to this email and
879
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:37.320
let me know your thoughts. People love to give opinions, right,
880
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:39.800
and by doing something every once in a while that
881
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:42.760
is so personal. We have one that goes out from
882
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.719
our product development person and he's in charge of our
883
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:49.239
client services. And I told him like about my like
884
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.440
I'm a tennis player, but I started playing pick a
885
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.000
ball and blah blah blah blah blah. And I told him,
886
00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:56.559
I said, just do an issue on pick a ball, right,
887
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:59.239
Just do an issue on pickaball. People love it. Make
888
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.199
the subject law, do you want to play pick a
889
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:05.559
ball with me kind of thing. Unbelievable opens people respond
890
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:09.320
it like crazy. Actually, studies have shown people who play
891
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:12.440
racket sports it's great for your brain. Right, We know
892
00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.440
this that if you play a racket sport hand eye coordination,
893
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:17.880
it's great for your brain. And we worked that in
894
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:20.920
like that study into the piece, right, So it was
895
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.719
pure value. It was fun and people replied like crazy,
896
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.840
So it doesn't always have to be you know about
897
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:34.800
you know, brain science forefront. There was brain science worked
898
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.880
into this because it's so good for your brain and
899
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:41.800
your body, right, But it was just fun, So keep
900
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:42.920
it fun with them.
901
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.880
And part of what maybe a subtext of this I
902
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:47.519
don't know, but you know, if you're doing your best
903
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:50.440
with your communications to make very value add very personal
904
00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:53.440
really you know, you have a conversation with your customers
905
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:56.880
who you love and your really truly value, then the
906
00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:58.840
ones you're going to keep and they're going to respond
907
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:00.360
engage with that are probably going to to be your
908
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.000
best customers anyway. And the ones who would unsubscribe because
909
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.280
they don't want the emails, they're probably less likely to
910
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.480
be your best customers. Is that an assumption or do
911
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:09.800
it be found they have to be true.
912
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:13.320
Oh, I know it to be true, right, because what
913
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:16.559
we will do is one of those numbers will record
914
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:22.559
on our spreadsheet is unsubs by promotion, And every once
915
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:25.400
in a while, what we'll do is we'll look at
916
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:29.000
that person see how long they've been with us and
917
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:33.039
how much they bought. So you spot check them right now,
918
00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:36.400
if you're getting all these unsubs and they're all incredible buyers,
919
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:42.360
then maybe your communication isn't the right communication. But that's
920
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:44.679
all you have to do. Just take those unsubs for
921
00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:46.320
the week and spot check them.
922
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.559
And you mentioned before that you have this onthy poaching
923
00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:51.920
call where you post a topic a week ahead of
924
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:54.039
time so you can put on their calendar and then
925
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:55.920
you come on, you're presenting something and they can ask
926
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:59.159
questions and there's a huge value add for your customer base.
927
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:02.280
And you said as a reward, I think you implied
928
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:05.360
that as a reward for attending, they get a discount
929
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:07.480
on and maybe a new product coming up or something.
930
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:09.800
You pitch that at the end of that coaching call
931
00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:10.199
or you.
932
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.400
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yep, yep, every time.
933
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:17.760
Yeah, So as long as you've added the value up front,
934
00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:20.199
you feel you could give it into a pitch that
935
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:23.519
people will appreciate, not it doesn't diminish the value they
936
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.119
got from coming to that coaching call.
937
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:28.920
That's right. And here's the other thing that's really important
938
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:32.320
is that we'll always do those calls. Most we'll do
939
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:36.400
them on a Wednesday. We always reseend that on a Friday,
940
00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:39.039
and then we'll give them through the weekend at that
941
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:42.760
price until that Sunday night at midnight, and then we'll
942
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:46.440
generally have launched that product to everybody on the Tuesday
943
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:47.320
at the higher price.
944
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:50.719
I want to talk a little bit about balancing our
945
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:52.840
life as an entrepreneur personal EVI, and I know you
946
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:56.599
help mothers with children be successful in business and entrepreneurship.
947
00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:00.199
Just one last question on this customer attention customer base, Well,
948
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:02.719
what about recurring revenue and membership programs? Do you have
949
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:06.199
any highlighted words of wisdom around the value of creating
950
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:08.480
membership program subscription programs.
951
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.920
I think everybody should have some kind of subscription program.
952
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:18.000
And it's tricky because of the content that you have
953
00:53:18.079 --> 00:53:21.719
to add, right, So that is the hard part about
954
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:26.239
the you know, kind of reoccurring revenue. But now, like
955
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:30.039
for example, we just launched an app right a year ago.
956
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:33.639
I guess a new app a year ago and it's fantastic.
957
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:38.880
And so again with our best customers who are already
958
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:43.280
inner circle to retain them, they get fifty percent off
959
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.039
that app. Right if they buy the yearly package. Okay,
960
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:49.920
so they get fifty percent off, and then we have
961
00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:52.840
a yearly and monthly price for everybody else. And the
962
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:57.599
beautiful thing is that when we write to everybody about
963
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:01.800
the app, we'll say and remember, anybody who's a lifetimes member,
964
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.199
you're going to get fifty percent off. So now people
965
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.480
who aren't in that lifetime membership are like, wow, they're
966
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:12.280
getting fifty percent off. So let other people know about
967
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:16.119
the special things that somebody's going to get, right, So
968
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:19.480
that's really important. You know, we're actually working on a
969
00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:23.000
streaming service now with some of our products. But I
970
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.400
really like the idea of you know, and again, you know,
971
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.159
if you're thinking about selling right, you know, if you're
972
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:32.880
building to sell well, having reoccurring revenue is you know,
973
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:33.880
almost a must.
974
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.199
Yeah, when you're in the end of our time and
975
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.840
I want to talk about or ask about how people
976
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.719
can find out more about your work, and I know
977
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.880
you have a wonderful free gift offer to our audience.
978
00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:45.039
But first off, we could just touch a little bit
979
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.400
on one of the really challenges can be a real
980
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:52.599
challenge of entrepreneurship is balancing or growing our company, or
981
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:54.679
what I like to say, succeeding in business while we
982
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:58.280
also succeed in life, right, so that our entrepreneurial journey
983
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.719
is not putting our kids in therapy, are not leading
984
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.719
their divorce, not ruining our help. But we can balance
985
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.519
all that. So I know you teach that, So what
986
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.280
some of the core things you can teach her on that?
987
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.679
And this is so important, And I'm just going to
988
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:13.960
preface this by saying, I have been married for twenty
989
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:17.679
eight years to one person. Are both our first marriage.
990
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:21.440
Our oldest daughter graduate law school in May, passed the
991
00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.239
bar in October, got her she's an attorney, has her
992
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:27.119
first job, and she's twenty six. Our son is an
993
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:32.159
incredible entrepreneur, he's twenty four. My youngest is a D
994
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:36.800
one college tennis player at Tulane University and mate. So
995
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:43.880
my kids are incredible, Like they're such nice, compassionate people
996
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:47.440
that I just they I'm in awe of them. And
997
00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:52.800
this happened because we worked at it right. But and
998
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.920
this sounds very counterintuitive, and it was very encountertuitive to
999
00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:58.519
a lot of the moms I worked with, and it
1000
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.360
was counterintuitive to actually some of the men that I've
1001
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:05.039
worked coached over the years. Is as an entrepreneur, you
1002
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.760
have to put yourself first. It's kind of like, you know,
1003
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:12.679
are like, oh no, I'll skip lunch. Oh no, you know,
1004
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:14.800
I'm not getting my nails done. Oh no, I'm not
1005
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:17.280
doing this. I'm not doing that. You know, Really, what
1006
00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.320
you're doing is you're like burning out yourself pleasure, teaching
1007
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:23.079
your kids how to be a victim as opposed to
1008
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:27.400
a leader. Okay, so by putting yourself first doesn't mean
1009
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:30.639
you're putting everybody else behind you. It just means you
1010
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.440
value yourself as much as you do anyone else. The
1011
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:37.320
other thing that I do is for me. It's not
1012
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:41.280
about a balanced lifestyle. It's about a blended lifestyle. So
1013
00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:45.760
the way I live my life is by having purposeful activity.
1014
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.599
Some of that activity yields me money directly, other yields
1015
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:54.039
me money indirectly. I play tennis three to four times
1016
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:57.840
a week. That yields me money because after I'm done
1017
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.960
playing tennis. I am ready to go. Oh like, I
1018
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:04.280
am ready to go. And then the other thing is
1019
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:06.800
and I wish, like I said, I knew about these
1020
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:09.960
things earlier, but for the last nine years, I work
1021
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:15.760
on my brain every day. Better brain, better life. Right.
1022
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:19.119
If your brain is strong, then you can get the
1023
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.079
things done that you need to get done, right, So
1024
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:25.360
I meditate every day. And again it goes back to
1025
00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:27.400
that we all have the same twenty four hours in
1026
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:29.760
a day. So people are saying, I don't have time
1027
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:32.639
to meditate it. Well, do you have time? Are you
1028
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:35.440
watching like an episode of Friends every night? You know,
1029
00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:37.840
what are you doing with that time? It's about how
1030
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:43.119
you spend that twenty four hours because watching you know,
1031
00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:46.599
an episode of Friends at night, myight like nice, it's light,
1032
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:49.599
but it's not doing anything for your brain, right, it's
1033
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.840
not doing anything for your business. So it's really a
1034
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:54.239
matter of priorities.
1035
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:56.119
But you take your own medicine.
1036
00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:59.719
Yes, wish like I said that, I knew about this
1037
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.800
when I was in my twenties, you know, but thank
1038
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:05.000
god I do now that's you.
1039
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:07.960
Know, wonderful. Well, this has been illuminating. I mean, I'm
1040
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.079
just I'm going to go back and watch this and
1041
00:58:10.119 --> 00:58:12.400
take notes, and I hope any of our audience will,
1042
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:15.000
and of course we're making the transcripts available and so
1043
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:17.480
forth for those who want to have this going forward
1044
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:20.559
as a resource. I know you have a free gift audience,
1045
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.840
and where can people access that and where can people
1046
00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:25.559
find out more about you and what you do in
1047
00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:26.440
your services?
1048
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.599
Yes, and so I want to say that we created
1049
00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:36.239
a brand new soundtrack for entrepreneurs. It's called the Entrepreneur
1050
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:41.280
Success Solution. So please just go to a wholesinc dot
1051
00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:46.800
com forward slash solution. It is a free track. This
1052
00:58:46.840 --> 00:58:51.119
one is fifteen minutes, and so please get that free.
1053
00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:55.119
Please use it, and you I'm telling you, if you
1054
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:58.760
use this for a week straight fifteen minutes, you're going
1055
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:01.199
to feel different. If you use it for two weeks
1056
00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:04.280
a month straight, you're going to feel a difference. Just
1057
00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:08.199
use it every day. Entrepreneurs have a lot of stress, right,
1058
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:13.880
so this is the Entrepreneur's stress solution. Everybody has fifteen
1059
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.440
minutes in their day to do something great for themselves.
1060
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:20.440
Wonderful, thank you, and your basic website where they can
1061
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:22.880
find out more about your other products and services.
1062
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:28.880
Oh, Centerpoint with an e dot com right centerpoint dot com.
1063
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:32.079
It's really we have And what I'm saying is we
1064
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:36.559
have so much free stuff up there to test out, right,
1065
00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:39.639
so please give it a try. There's plenty for you
1066
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:43.239
to test out without spending in dime that could change
1067
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:45.559
your life, change your business.
1068
00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.000
Wonderful Mael and Truvitz. Thank you so much, thank you.
1069
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:51.159
This has really been illuminating. I can't wait to go
1070
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:54.320
back and get the transcript and just start highlighting and
1071
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:57.400
taking notes and really applying a lot of these insights
1072
00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:59.880
in our own business. So thank you so much, thank you,
1073
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:00.199
thank you.
1074
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:01.119
It was a pleasure.
1075
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:05.840
Thank you for joining me on the Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember,
1076
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:08.639
real change happens when we commit to our growth, face
1077
01:00:08.679 --> 01:00:12.239
our challenges with compassion, and stay open to transformation. If
1078
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:15.480
you found this episode helpful, I encourage you to subscribe
1079
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:18.920
and help us spread the message of healing and personal empowerment.
1080
01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.440
Stay grounded, stay present, and stay true to you. Take care,