Should I Set Up a Trump Account for My Kid?

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Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast.
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This is Matt Sornson joined by the incredible Mark J.
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Kohler.
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And today we are talking about something on the cutting edge, something new that I have fallen in love with recently, and that is Trump accounts.
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I want you to know about these and be using them if you've got a kid under age 18.
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You've got to listen to this episode.
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So as we're going to break down today, what is a Trump account?
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We're going to contrast it with some of the other accounts you might be thinking about for your kids.
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Well, um, my introduction is a little different.
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Happy New Year, by the way, Scrooge.
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Uh Bah humbug, you know, Matt Sorensen.
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No, Happy New Year.
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Glad you're here with us, everybody.
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Our inaugural podcast of 2026.
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And I am not in love with the Trump accounts.
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And I think there's accounts that parents are underutilizing already.
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And to get hopped up on the Trump accounts is only for those that are already maybe hitting some base hits with some other strategies that you may not be aware of.
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So this is going to be a very uh, what do we call it?
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I like it.
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I like it.
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We're going to be debating here, and I will win the debate.
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That's okay.
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You guys, you know, hang in here.
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Fighting words have already started, you know?
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Yeah.
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Just by saying you're in love with something with Trump, you've lost half of our listeners already.
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Which I'm a huge Trump fan, so that's what I'm saying.
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I know.
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I'm the I'm the arguing the Trump side marks the not the non-Trump side on this one.
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So, you know, it's a little different.
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But I think um, first of all, I'll just say that.
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You got to get over that Trump account thing.
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If you're like, oh, I don't want to set up a Trump account for my kid.
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I didn't vote for him, I voted for someone else.
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Get over that.
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Okay.
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This is an awesome opportunity to save and invest for your kids.
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Now, I will say this.
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My first review of Trump accounts, I was like, these suck.
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Why would I do this for my kid?
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But I learned one thing that made all the difference.
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And this was in the regs that the IRS just put out.
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You can convert a Trump account to a Roth IRA.
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We're going to break down how the hell a Trump account works, how it turns into traditional IRA, how you can convert to a Roth IRA.
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But that one thing made all the difference for me.
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To now I'm like, wait a sec.
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Your kid could have a Roth IRA at age 18 that you funded with your contributions.
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They didn't have to have earned income.
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And we can maybe even do the Roth conversion if we're doing it strategic, entirely tax-free.
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Now I'm in.
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Now I love Trump accounts.
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Yeah, I I I hear you.
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I hear you.
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Um I but I like your first point though.
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And this is an important one.
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I'll just say two words on it and we'll move on.
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Is that we cannot let who passed legislation dictate whether or not we use it or get excited about it.
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I've been a pretty vocal uh proponent of ACA, the Affordable CARES Act, or what is known as Obamacare.
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I think if you have to choose between President Obama's legislation or evil insurance companies, I'm gonna go with the legislation.
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So again, we could get into debate of who passed what when it came to health care legislation, but I think there's a lot of good things in there that you can take advantage of.
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So who cares it was freaking Obama that pushed that through?
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Same thing here.
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Don't worry about Trump being the advocate for this.
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Look at the legislation objectively and decide what's best for your family.
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So I like that point first, Matt.
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Okay, I'll I'll come with some competing questions or thoughts, but lay it out for us.
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What are the basics of these Trump accounts?
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Everybody, I want to encourage you if you're driving or multitasking, at least listen to this portion because you're gonna need to know.
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They're gonna be around for a while.
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Yep, this is gonna be a big deal.
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This is gonna be the new thing, just like when people talk about traditional IRA or a Roth IRA or a 529, this is gonna come into the lexicon as well.
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So this was in the one big beautiful bill that passed legislation last year, and the Trump accounts go into effect in 2026.
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In fact, the first day you can have a Trump account is July 5th, 2026.
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So this is gonna be the first year of it.
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Now, what it is is it's a savings vehicle for people under the age of 18.
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So if you have any kids under the age of 18, this is primarily for parents, grandparents, maybe you're an aunt or uncle, or you like the neighbor kid down the street, whatever.
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Okay.
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It's about helping kids get a financial head start.
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Now, the way you do it is you can put in$5,000 per year as a contribution per child into a Trump account.
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You do not get a tax deduction when you put it in.
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The kid doesn't get a tax deduction.
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Okay, this is after tax dollars, five grand going in.
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The benefit of the Trump account is when it's invested, and we'll talk about how you can invest it here in a second, the options.
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Sadly, you can't self-direct it, but we'll get to that.
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The benefit of it is when you invest it, the investment gains and returns are coming back with no tax on it.
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So this is growing in a tax-advantaged way.
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You could certainly set up a brokerage account for your kid or whatever, but as that's making money, they're gonna have taxable income potentially.
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So the benefit of this is it's compounding and growing, and there's no taxes on the money.
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The thing that opened the door for me a little bit on this was that no matter what the income of the parent is, you can open this account for your child.
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Typically, the middle income Americans even get phased out of things like this.
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So I want to re-emphasize that any family of any income level with a child under age 18 could open one of these accounts.
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Now, I will say what I don't like is that you lack a significant amount of control over this account.
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You can put it in S P 500.
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The big brokerages are going to control these accounts.
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They're gonna have their fees buried in them as they typically do.
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And so you have to be very cautious of the cost associated with these accounts and what you're invested in.
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But you are getting the snowball going down the hill.
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It will gain more snow as it rolls over and over and gets going.
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I'd agree with that.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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Fair.
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Yeah.
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But my problem is you cannot pull out the money for college tax-free.
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And even if you do convert it to a Roth, the kids are gonna have to wait until they're 59 and a half to get that money out tax-free and penalty-free, which I'm not opposed to.
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Americans are terrible at saving.
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But when I've got my little Johnny or you know, Jane at age five, I'm more worried about rising college and tuition costs that are gonna nail us 15 years from now.
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And so I'd like to put away some money for that.
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But most parents are not using the covered L, which you can self-direct and even buy crypto inside of Covered L and do a hundred other things, or a Roth IRA that you can put contributions in and then pull out.
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And yes, Matt will explain the Trump account flexibility with contributions.
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I believe there's some opportunity there.
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But I think parents should be using the covered L and even the 529 has a Roth conversion feature.
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So maybe the answer is, and I'm gonna say it now, is you need to be as parents using a combination of these accounts.
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That's the most and best strategy.
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So don't use a kind of a narrow approach and stay in one lane here.
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I think there's a lot of options.
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But Matt, tell us about college and these Trump accounts.
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What's your take on that?
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Yeah, well, I'll just say on the first thing on the knock on investments.
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That is a downside to this, is you can't self-direct it.
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You can't invest it in what you want.
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You can't invest it into Apple.
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You can't invest it into a crypto, you can't invest it into real estate, you can't self-direct it, which is what we do at directed IRA with all of our clients.
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Like, right, they're Roth IRA, and you can do a kid's Roth IRA, you can do a coverdale for your kid, and you could invest it in a real estate deal in crypto in a private company.
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Like these are all these self-directed assets we do every day at directed IRA.
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Um, so we won't be not, we will not be doing Trump accounts here.
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So you will have to go to Wall Street, as Mark said, because the investment requirement is that you're gonna have a mutual fund or an ETF that is primarily invested in U.S.
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stocks.
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Now these have to have low fees.
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There's certain legislation on this to keep the fees low on it.
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And you're gonna see the big banks and financial institutions supporting and doing these accounts.
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So that's definitely a downside.
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Now, for college, on that issue is I would agree actually, there are probably better accounts for college savings.
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I don't think of the Trump account as a college savings account.
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I think of a Trump account as a wealth-building tool for the long term to secure retirement savings for your kids.
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Like give them the head start.
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So many of us here, like, and I just see this on social media, right?
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Of, you know, if you started a Roth IRA when you were age 20 and you didn't put one penny into it, but you put 50 grand into it, you'd have six million dollars by the time you're 65.
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And you're like, well, great, I'm 50.
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How does this help me?
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You know, you're like, I gotta get a DeLorean and find plutonium and go back to the future.
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Like, how am I gonna how am I gonna actually do that?
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But you can do this for your kids.
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And so I so think of this as long-term wealth building for your kids, giving them a financial head start.
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Then now there are ways you can get money out of these early.
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Let's say you just, so let's let's let's fast forward here.
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Let's say you put some money into this thing, okay?
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Let's say your kid was five, and for 12 years you put five grand into this thing, right?
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So you put$60,000 of contributions.
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Let's say it invested and grew.
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Now it's a hundred grand in a Trump account.
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And your kid's going to college, like, all right, I got a Trump account.
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I want to access those funds.
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Well, what they look at is they say, great, you can take that money.
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And in fact, there's a this is now a traditional IRA, by the way.
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Once your kid reaches age 18, the traditional IRA rules apply to your Trump account.
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They now have a traditional IRA in their name.
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Well, if they want to access that for college, there is an exception to the 10% early withdrawal penalty for college expenses.
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So they could use that exception to waive the 10% penalty.
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But it's traditional dollars now.
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So when they access that money, they have to pay tax on their earnings and growth.
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This is an important thing.
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The contributions of 60 grand that you put in, you never took a deduction on those.
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These are a little different than your regular traditional IRA contributions.
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So you get that back without having to take it into taxable income because there's a 10% early withdrawal penalty for education savings account.
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There's also one for purchasing a first-time home.
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There's a number of these exceptions already in the traditional IRA rules that'll waive the penalty up to a certain amount of dollars you take.
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There's a way you can access this money, but you will have to pay some tax on the earnings and growth you're pulling out.
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Now you got some tax deferral, but also you're not paying tax on those contributions.
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And you have to do that pro-rata rule, where if it was 60% contributions, as we're talking about here, 40% growth, there is some tax just on the 40% growth.
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So if I take 10 grand, I have to pay tax on that 4,000, 40% that was earnings and growth.
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But again, no withdrawal penalty because it was for college.
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This would be the same for a home.
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But I can't still access it.
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I know, not as good as a Coverdale or even a 529 that comes out in the time of the text reading.
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Matt, I'm I'm a pretty smart guy in this area of the law, and and I know you, and we talk all the time.
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I got lost in everything you just said there for a minute.
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I mean, this is I feel like I'm looking at a crystal ball and it just got really foggy.
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Um here here's what I would throw out to all of you.
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Take a breath, too.
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Because Matt Matt is so freaking smart, and I loved his strategy.
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He was he was playing chess.
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He was thinking five moves forward, what are you gonna do?
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And we got to do that.
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I agree with that.
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But here's what I think parents need to know.
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You have to sit back and go, okay, we're talking about kids.
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So any of you without kids, you know, change the channels, maybe, or send this to a friend.
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So you got kids under age 18.
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That's point number one.
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Yeah.
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Now, let's assume you have a little financial wherewithal.
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What's most important right now with your Johnny and Jane that are under age five or under age 10 or 15?
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It's probably college or post-secondary education, even if it's a trade school.
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We gotta we gotta think about that first.
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And if you're not rolling in cash, you're gonna typically, in my opinion, go with a coverdale.
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It's a couple grand, start there.
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Now, the point I'm gonna make here is you can use all of these strategies and start to stack them.
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Let me quickly say if you're financially, again, on a butt very tight budget, you're a middle income, if you're a family with kids, middle income America, everything's tight.
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I've been there, Matt's been there.
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We're we we're we've moved a little past that with our kids over age 18 now, and so we're and we've been had a career to be able to build some additional income.
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But for many, many million of Americans, I would start with the Coverdale.
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Number two, if you're a small business owner and you're doing a little better, I would start paying your kids to help in the business and funding their Roth IRA.
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You why worry about converting later?
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You get complete control of that Roth now, and you can pull out contributions for college or let it roll.
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A lot more flexibility.
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Oh, you're doing even better.
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You've having a great year, you're making even more money.
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Okay.
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Trump accounts now come into play because you can do a Coverdale, you can do a Roth now, and you can do the Trump account and convert it to Roth later.
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So now you're tripling down.
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And if you're making a lot of money and you're a high roller in Vegas, you might triple down at the roulette table.
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It might be a little tougher at the traps table.
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And that's your latitude.
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God bless you.
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You're very fortunate.
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And then fourth, you've got rich parents, aka grandparents.
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And they want to help little Johnny and Jane as well.
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$529 a month.
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Because$529 allows them to stack some money in there.
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And it could be even rolled to a sibling or another grandchild child if they don't use it.
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But you're going to have limits to the Coverdale, the Roth, or the Trump.
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And the$529 is the grandparent strategy.
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They could really throw down some bank if they want.
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So I hope that was helpful for some of you too, thinking, I've got options and it's based on my income, the age of my children, and what you're trying to accomplish.
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But the Trump account can play a role.
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I think it's going to be there for the clients, our clients that have a little more money and they've already done the Coverdale, done the Roth.
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Now they want to hit a Trump.
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Yeah.
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What do you think, I think if you're just thinking about college, I think the Coverdale, the Kids Roth IRA, and the 529 are better.
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But I'm not thinking about just college.
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Only 39% of kids between age 18 and 24 are in college and going to college.
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Okay.
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I know there's an assumption that every kid just goes to college.
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They don't.
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.639
You're probably going to, if you have a couple kids, it's most likely one of them is not going to go to college.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:35.360
All right.
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.440
So now you might be like, damn, my kids are going to college.
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:39.919
Okay.
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:40.320
All right.
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.240
And you're like, I want to have a college savings strategy.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:42.480
Okay.
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:49.039
We talked about the Coverdale, more control about what you invest, no deduction when you put the money in, no taxes as it grows.
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.320
And then you can spend it out.
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.440
No taxes on the way out as it's going into college.
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:54.960
And you can self-direct that.
00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:55.600
Okay.
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.000
Now let's let's debate this point a little bit.
00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:59.759
You had a you you made some big points.
00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:00.960
I made some multiple points.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:02.720
Let's just stay on this college one for a minute, though.
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:03.519
I like your point.
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:06.960
But here, what do we got going on with AI?
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.039
AI is now making trade schools even more important.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:17.039
I got a multi-million dollar trade school being built right here in this little town I'm at right now.
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:23.600
And because people are realizing I got to go back to trades because AI just took my job.
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:30.799
Trade school is considered college education and qualifies for withdrawals for Coverdales in 529s.
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:45.200
I think we're under I think we are as a society uh not seeing the explosion of trade schools coming down in the next 10 years because this is what people are going to need.
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.519
AI cannot go fix my HVAC or my toilet or uh pull electrical through my house.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:59.440
And I think kids are gonna be going to trade schools in droves down the road because they need high-paying jobs that are gonna be waiting there for them.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.600
The 529, the Coverdale can do that.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:03.200
Take that match for anything.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:03.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.519
I will not disagree with that.
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:05.920
Okay.
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:06.880
But that's the thing.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.279
Coverdell's 529s were created for education expenses.
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.319
Crap, you can even use them for higher ed and private schools now for your kids.
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.200
And like that, that's what they were have been built for.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.359
But the Trump account is not for that.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.160
So let's not criticize it because it doesn't do that.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.599
That's not what it was created for.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.960
If you remember, the first version of Trump accounts were these MAGA accounts.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.359
That's what the first version of Big Beautiful Bill had.
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:35.119
And they were for college, they were for vocational training, they were for starting a small business or buying your first home.
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.480
They had all these rules in there.
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:37.440
And they changed it all.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:38.559
And they said, you know what?
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.119
Let's just turn it into a freaking traditional IRA.
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.279
The policy objective was to give kids a financial head start.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:50.880
If you're a parent, you're like, I want to give my kids a financial head start in building and saving for retirement.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.000
So they have something they're looking forward to when they're 59 and a half.
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.240
And that I wish I had that for myself.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.000
That's what this was built for.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:02.960
Yes, there's some ways you can access the money and pay a little tax on the earnings and growth.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.960
And there's penalty exceptions for buying a home and education that are in the traditional IRA rules already.
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.839
Even if you convert it to Roth, they're in those rules too.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.960
Um, so I still like it.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.240
Um because I'm not thinking about just for college.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.160
Yeah, and I want to I get it.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:28.160
That's a great, I love this debate because you and I don't get emotional about it, and we keep it very uh, we keep it on point.
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:32.319
And I and I love that that's a great comment, is that why piss on it?
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.839
It wasn't built for that anyway.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.079
Um now I will say this too.
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:43.519
I think there's something we need to throw out for those out there who are our far majority of our listeners, is you're a Main Street business owner.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.759
Hence, the Main Street Business Podcast is our sister podcast.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:54.720
And if you've got a small business, do you know that funding of the Trump account could be tax deductible?
00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:03.440
And here's how you're gonna be paying your kids in your business, presumably, and that's a strategy we've been teaching for years.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:15.279
You can fund their Roth IRA, and they can fund their Trump account personally, because they're under age 18, with the money you pay them out of your business.
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:28.000
So now you're getting a tax write-off to fund that account and convert it to Roth for that kid later, or use those 10 other points Matt made earlier, but you're getting a write-off to do it.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:29.839
Is would you concur with that, Matt?
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:37.279
Like that's yeah, and I go back to this as the stacking strategy of what you're talking about with the Trump account and the covered out and the 529.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:46.559
Uh this is where if you're a if yeah, uh the kids Roth, if you're a business owner and your kids work in the business, real estate investor, they're working on your properties.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.519
We want you paying those kids from the business, get them involved in it.
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.519
You're taking a tax deduction, and they have earned income now.
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.440
You can just put the money in a kid's Roth.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.759
Do that first before you do a Trump account.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.759
The problem is not everyone can do that.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:00.400
That.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.440
Not everyone's a business owner, or not everyone's kid is actually working in their business where they can legitimize that.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.039
Now we want you to be.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.440
We've both done that with our kids, Mark and I.
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.519
They've been involved in the business doing legitimate things.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:12.720
We've done kids Roths.
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:20.319
The nice thing about the Kids Roth IRA that beats the Trump account is I can immediately invest it into, I can self-direct it.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.240
I don't just have to buy a Wall Street product.
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:23.279
I can invest it in a real estate.
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:24.960
You can do a kids crypto Roth.
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.240
I mean, we do those all here at directed IRA.
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:33.599
But for the mass market out there, it's not a business owner.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.599
The Trump account is going to be the one thing you can do.
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.839
And it's the second thing you do for you business owners after you do the kids Roth.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:42.880
Because like I said, I like it.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:50.079
I want to throw out one last I'll throw out this one last concept, and then maybe Matt, you take us home on this.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.880
I still need to explain the Roth conversion here because I want to hit the Roth conversion strategy on it.
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:55.680
Okay.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:07.599
Um the one other concept I want to lay out there too is for those listening, please realize you owning a rental property is a pseudo small business.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.759
You may go, I don't have a small business.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:16.480
And I mean, I've got a good friend that's an executive at Verizon, and he's like, Yeah, I've always wanted your small business strategies.
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.000
He owns three rentals.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.079
And it took me years to convince him.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.720
I'm like, dude, you've got three rental properties.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:24.000
Those are small businesses.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.319
Yeah, but I don't get to take the losses or the right.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.599
You will when you go to sell those rentals.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.880
Any expenses you've had, they snowball in what's called a passive loss carry forward.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:40.720
All of those rental properties are a small business waiting to be harvested with write-offs.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:51.920
So your kids under age 18 can be helping in a rental property that you have near grandma's house, even though you're a 500K year executive and who knows what Fortune 5,000.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:22:04.559
The point is you can use that rental property to pay your kids to help with that rental property and use that as a deduction, even if it's a delayed deduction that's going to carry forward until you sell the property.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.160
So don't forget that either, folks.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:06.720
Yeah.
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:14.400
Let me hit the big difference maker here, because I kind of led with that and said you can convert this Trump account to a Roth account when the kid reaches age 18.
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:15.920
Okay, here's how you're gonna do that.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:24.640
And this is really the secret, and the reason I like the Trump account is at age 18, that Trump account will turn into a traditional IRA automatically.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:25.119
Okay.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.240
Now traditional IRA rules apply to this account.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:34.240
Well, when the regs, when they came out with these just last month, the Treasury said IRA rules apply.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:35.839
You can do a Roth conversion to it.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.519
So we can do a Roth conversion now to this traditional IRA.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:44.799
When your kid is age 18, finishing up high school, maybe their first year of college or who knows what.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:46.400
They're not making much money.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:48.480
They're under the standard deduction.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:54.960
Let's say 12 years from now, the standard deduction is 20 grand, meaning the first 20 grand you make, you pay no tax on it.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.160
That means I could convert 20 grand of a Trump account and pay no tax on the conversion.
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.920
Now I can chunk it over a few years.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.640
Let's say your Trump account's worth has 60 grand in it.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:14.960
I could do 20 grand every three years, and at the end of the day, that traditional IRA is now 100% Roth dollars, and I paid no tax to convert it over to a Roth.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:21.359
Now my kid is building a Roth IRA, and now it's growing and coming out totally tax-free.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:22.319
Okay.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.680
I will take that uh and raise you by three.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Okay.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:32.400
Uh Matt and I were talking about playing poker in Alaska earlier before the show.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.440
You know, some that's our goal this summer is to play poker in a small cabin in Alaska somewhere.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.440
Okay, here's my counter.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:55.920
The 529, if a beneficiary does not use 529 funds, they can convert up to$35,000 of it to Roth IRA money with no 10% penalty, and they don't have to claim it as income at all.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:03.680
It's just limited to their annual Roth contribution amount after the 529 has been in place for 15 years.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:09.119
Now, again, this does not make it better than the Trump account.
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.960
It makes it a sister account that can be stacked together.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:25.839
But I just want to say the 529, you can already convert 35 grand of that to Roth once it's been around for 15 years for a beneficiary that didn't use it, and there's no income, no penalty, going straight to a Roth IRA.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.240
Yeah.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:27.039
With a pen.
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:28.160
I need to drop a pen.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:28.640
Yeah.
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:31.680
I love that too.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.200
It's so I want you to do that also, not instead.
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:35.519
Okay.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:36.000
Do that also.
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:36.799
That's true.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:37.839
Do that also.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.720
Um, okay.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.079
One last point on this.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:48.000
And Mark's gonna laugh and probably fall asleep here and tell me how you know that was confusing and not even he understood it, but this is important, okay?
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:49.599
Okay.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:51.440
When you I will focus.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:52.400
Okay, all right.
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:53.839
Focusing.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:54.799
I'm running my temple.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:56.559
If I lose you on this, it's okay.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.240
We got lawyers at KQS Lawyers, our firm that can help explain this to you.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.119
We can it this I got an article coming out on this.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:03.440
All right.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.640
This this is a little Matt has more faith in you, the listener, than me.
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:07.039
So okay.
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.200
This is an advanced point, is what I'm saying.
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.079
But it matters.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:16.960
And I know there's some CPA listening, or some advisor, tax attorney, or someone being there, or some of you smart people out there.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.200
I know some of you clients, you're like, hmm.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.200
But Matt, uh, this is the question you're probably thinking.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.359
Let's take that example I gave earlier.
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:31.759
You put, you know, five 12 years of contributions,$5,000 each, you put$60 grand in the Trump account.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.599
It's invested and it's grown to$100,000.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:43.440
So$40,000 is investment growth, but the$60 grand I put in, whereas contributions, I took no tax deduction on.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.759
Do I pay tax on the Roth conversion when I'm converting that$60,000?
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.599
The short answer is no.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:54.720
The Roth conversion, you only pay tax on the earnings and growth.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:57.119
Now that's pretty freaking awesome.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:57.680
Okay.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:58.960
That wasn't that advanced.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:25:59.839
I caught that.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.960
Okay, let me layer on the next piece of this because this is the next piece.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:03.200
All right.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:04.799
Somebody might ask you one more.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.519
I was baby stepping.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:07.839
All right.
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:08.799
We're baby stepping.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:10.880
All right.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:13.200
Um, what was the doctor?
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:14.240
Doctor.
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:15.519
Oh.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.359
What about Bob?
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.200
Bill Murray.
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.440
Oh, what about Leo Marvin?
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:21.680
Dr.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:22.240
Leo Marvin.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:22.799
Yeah, Dr.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:23.440
Leo Marvin.
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:24.240
Man, that's good.
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:25.440
I'm baby stepping.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:25.680
All right.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:26.480
Baby stepping.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.160
Okay, point number two on this.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:37.440
You might be thinking, and this is probably what you're thinking, is well, Matt, I'll just convert that 60 grand then to the Roth, and I'll leave that other 40k in the traditional, and I'll just leave it there.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:39.599
The IRS doesn't let you do that.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.519
They make you prorate it.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:50.720
So if you want to convert 10 grand, they're going to say 6,000 of that needs to be the money you put in, which you won't pay tax on, but the other 4,000 must be the conversion.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.640
Or sorry, better than I thought they do.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.200
I thought they'd say any conversions is earnings first.
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:55.920
Yeah.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.079
So you do it pro rata.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:07.119
So you will pay tax on the growth and investment part that's grown, but the money you put in, which you never took a tax deduction on, you actually don't pay tax on converting that over.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:08.480
So there it is.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.519
That's the strategy.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:11.200
Now you've got a Roth IRA.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.119
And I'll just say this because I ran the numbers.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.839
If you got a kid at age 20, then you got$100,000 in their Trump account.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:19.440
You've converted that to Roth.
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:24.319
They invest it for the next 45 years, getting a 10% return.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:27.680
You can get that in the SP 500, you can do even better if you're self-directing.
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.160
There, they will have an$8.8 million Roth IRA at age six.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:32.880
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:33.200
Okay.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:34.640
Well, so start over.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:35.119
Okay.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.880
I do how many years with my kid under age 18 of 5 grand a year?
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:42.640
Well, let's say you let's say you did five grand a year for 12 years.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:43.119
Okay.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:47.440
So you got 60,000 of contributions, and let's say it grew the 40,000.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.039
So now it's 100,000 total.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:49.839
Okay.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.440
You did the conversions.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.039
Now the kid's 20.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.960
Now we're looking another, we're looking 45 years till the kid's 65.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.160
They can access it 59 and a half, but I just went to 65.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:02.319
That's the most common retirement age, right?
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.200
Leave it alone.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.079
They just leave it alone.
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:04.960
Put it in SP.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:06.160
They just invest it.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.240
They don't put any contributions in.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:09.039
After that.
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:09.279
Okay.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:09.920
After that.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.799
It's just 100 grand growing because of compounding.
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.519
And this is assuming a 10% annual rate of return.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.160
That account will be$8.8 million.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:19.519
That's amazing.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:20.720
Did I get now?
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:22.079
Did you did I get you now?
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.640
Yeah.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:23.519
Okay.
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:24.319
I that's good.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.680
I thought it was going to be 8.7, but 8.8 blows my mind.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.559
So I mean now that extra extra 100,000 did all the difference.
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:33.839
Wow.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:34.319
Okay.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:34.880
Okay.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.759
All right.
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:52.960
Um, well, let's do if we started to stack, I was gonna run to the whiteboard for those that are watching this on YouTube, and start looking at what the Coverdale could be, the 529, the Roth during the same time period, then the conversion with the Trump.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:58.240
And this is where I hate to say it, when you make money and you have more money, it's easier to make more money.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.400
And I and that's just it's it's the nature of the beast and it's the game.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.039
And I want to, I'm gonna say this is my final point.
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:17.680
You're listening to this because you've already caught the vision of the power of investing and self-directing, hopefully small business as well, and you're able to get over to our sister podcast, the Main Street Business Podcast.
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:25.200
We value that American dream, that journey, and know that it's possible for anyone.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:31.039
And so let's go in with some energy here, that it doesn't need to be overwhelming or frustrating.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:33.599
I don't have enough money to fund these accounts, guys.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:40.400
There's always a way if you continue to apply yourself and listen and learn and get education.
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.759
We're grateful you're here.
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:43.680
We're gonna help you on that journey.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:45.839
And everybody is in a different situation.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.400
We are definitely sensitive to that.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.759
And we wish you the best in your American dream.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.759
Yeah, thank you everyone for tuning in.
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.160
And please share this with your friends or family.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:02.000
Subscribe, give us kudos, thumbs up, positive comments, whatever platform you're listening to this on.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.480
It does help the show and other people find it.
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.559
And we'll see you next time for another amazing episode of the Directed RA podcast.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.759
Until then, stay calm.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:10.880
Self-direct on.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:12.640
And thank you everyone for listening.
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:19.839
And a quick disclaimer and reminder: this presentation does not constitute an attorney or CPA client relationship.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:27.920
And it is always in your best interest to consult competent legal and tax professionals when conducting your own personal transactions.
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We also want to make sure you know this is not investment advice or financial advice or destroying education, ideas, and strategies you can take to your professionals or conduct your own research on.
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.839
We'll see you next time.