The Friendships That Last (Part 2): Eric Dwyer on Grief, Adaptability, and Love After Loss | Ft. Eric Dwyer & Ashley Negron

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Well, I've learned that the emotions, the more
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you fight them, it's like the wave is just going
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to keep pushing, and it will win, and so it will
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get worse. The more you try to prevent it from
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happening, the more the buildup, and then the
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bigger the blowup, right? So it's like, feel
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it. You've just got to ride that wave. Whenever
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I said I basically made it okay to grieve differently,
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then that connected us deeper, and the phrase
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is just... I really miss mom a lot today. And
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that's the way the other person knows if I'm
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a little off or if I'm just like in my room or
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if I just want to hug or something like that.
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It's like, I'm just missing her extra today because
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you miss her every day, but you just miss her
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extra. And it's like, okay, you just need some
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extra and I've got extra for you. Welcome to
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the Optimizing Beyond Podcast. I'm Josh Negron,
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and this show's all about sharing lessons, ideas,
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and strategies that sharpen your thinking. strengthen
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your habits and push you to grow beyond comfort
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zones let's dive in so you also said that it's
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it's okay to not be okay what i have found is
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that there are also times when people are a little
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they're happy but they're also like oh like relieved
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they're like oh my goodness i'm glad that that
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things are are going As well as they can be going
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in a time like this because we've gone to see
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counselors collectively, Cadence and I. I'm not
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saying everything is all roses and it's like
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nothing happened, right? But there's rebuilding
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happening and there's laughter. Making new memories.
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Making new memories, going on trips, doing these
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things. These are still happening. And some people
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are a little confused. They're relieved, but
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they're also like, huh, I've never seen this
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before. And I think it's actually... what i'm
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what i'm finding is it's it's okay to be okay
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because we talk about it's okay not to be okay
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and that's true sure but if you are putting in
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the work and you've got a faith community i think
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it's okay to be okay because that means i've
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we spent our lives being surrounded by people
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that were there to pick up the rubble yeah and
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did we want this no but The people from the college
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community that we were a part of, like president
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on down, like everybody has been nothing but
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helpful. And that makes it okay. And there are
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people that I know who just, they look at that
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and they go, I don't want what you went through,
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but if I do, I want what you have. And who you
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have. And I have to realize that I don't have
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to pretend to be sadder than I am. for other
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people's comfort yeah that's oh man that's that
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is good i also think some of that is like you
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know i've thought several times about things
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and i'm like i mean sarah would be so frustrated
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i would not be honoring her well if i wallowed
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in the fact that i miss her yeah no she would
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she would be so bad she would not like so to
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honor her well like She would want you to be
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doing exactly the things that you're doing and
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investing in Kate the way that you are and allowing
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people into your life and letting people show
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up and letting people support you and investing
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in those things. Those are the things that she
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wanted for you. And I know that she prayed ahead
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of time for those things, like asking the Lord
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to give that. And so I think there's that component
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of honoring her well by not... Being sad, yes.
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And having those moments of like, what's funny
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is you said that like, I'm missing mommy extra
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today. That's my words. I say I'm missing mommy
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extra because you think that's how the 12 -year
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-old girl says it. That's how the 21 -year -old
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man says it. You know, but what's funny is you
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said that and there have been days I have looked
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at him and said, I just miss my friend a lot
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today. Yeah, yeah. Same. But it's that extra
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grace required and he knows, okay, I need to
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be a little extra supportive today. I need to
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give you a little bit more or a little bit more
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space today or whatever that emotion is in the
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moment. But I also think there is something to
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honoring well and to living out the things that
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Sarah showed us well and the way in which that
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she... clung to the lord and that relationship
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that she had with him and like the peace that
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she had like from from get go day one of ms diagnosis
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we're not even talking about cancer diagnosis
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ms diagnosis like she was like okay okay if this
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is what you're asking of me I'm here. Yeah, and
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that's a gift that you actually end up giving
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other people. It's a gift for you as you go through
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it, but it's also a gift for the others that
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love you. But I think she had grieved the way
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that her life was going to change for a long
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time. Sure. So I think, you know, none of us
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maybe saw it coming as fast as it did. Yeah.
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Right? Yeah, not even the doctor. You know, but
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I also think it was one of those things if she
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went, it's okay. I'm, I'm ready to go. And now
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on this side of it, it is our turn to share and
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swap stories. And, you know, even like telling
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her dad's stories that she did in college and
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the prankster that was Sarah. Right. But like
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honoring the way that she suffered well. by living
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that out, continuing to live that out well. Yeah.
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And I think there's also something to be said
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for when you, when you do those, it's because
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it's not because you're still trying to honor
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some, like a person that can, as like a ghost
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who's right there over your shoulder. Right.
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I know that's not what you're saying, but I want
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to be clear to anybody listening. It really is.
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It's honoring them because of how far you've
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walked with that person and how much they've
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become a part of you. Yep. But that's how it
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honors them. It's almost like. You know, I'm
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still, I'm still, you walked into my house and
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you said that my house still smells the same.
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And I was like, it's because I just buy the same
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candles. No, I'm just, I'm going to keep buying
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the same things because it's a beautiful scent.
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It's not the scent that I like. And I'm not doing
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that because, you know, I have some mental image
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of this disembodied spirit being like, that's
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right. That's the Bath and Body Works flavor.
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It's the, it's really just. Because of how much
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we've been a part of one another, that that's
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now just part of moving forward is still doing
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that. Yeah. So again, sometimes people get stuck
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in the so -and -so wouldn't want me to do this
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or would want me to do this. And that they are,
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they're no longer in the decision -making process.
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If they're with the Lord, they're very busy doing
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a whole bunch of other much better things. Yes.
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You know, than checking in on a house. Than yelping
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about what you're not doing. So, I am happy that
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she's where she is now. But the things that I
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do then, if I don't just do them because that's
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who I am, because that's who we were, then that's
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also going to be something that's keeping me
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stuck in a spot of grief. If I'm filtering everything
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through what somebody else would have done. There's
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definitely a balance. Yeah, there is. yeah you
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know i mean there are times like that i've got
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to lean into it because i'm i'm not a mom right
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and so there's times when i'm like oh i've got
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to talk about this how would sarah mom like that's
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that's okay that's like i we've talked about
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because we had conversations about hey you know
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at this stage consider this or try this okay
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i'm trying to remember what what the advice i
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was given by her mother So I think what would
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Sarah do for this situation? That's different.
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Like you said, it's not like you're just like,
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well, you know, that person is just written out
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of your life, so don't ever consider their feelings
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ever again. It's like you can't do that, but
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you can't also then be like, you know, get a
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Ouija board and be like, Sarah, what should we
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do? So true. I was thinking about when you said
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the piece that you would share with her of like,
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hey, I'm just missing mom a little extra today.
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Like it made me think, and I've talked about
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this recently in season three of Ted Lasso. Now
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the episode is a spicy moment with Ted and his
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mom. And so if you're averse to language, don't
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watch it. But he's finally at a moment with his
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mom who, because they're both. unbelievably positive
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yeah right and and you find out in his backstory
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you've had years to watch it so if i'm spoiling
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anything this is too late now shut it off now
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but you know you find out pretty early in ted's
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story that his dad committed suicide and and
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and how that was very troubling for him and that
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caused his panic attacks and all these kinds
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of things but in the in towards the end of season
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three He confronts his mother and says, hey,
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thank you. Insert all the awesome things that
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she did. And then and then he says a not so nice
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word. F you for for never talking about. After
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dad did these things and he's like, and thank
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you. And he swaps the two. He's like, thank you
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for the insert. And then F you for not doing
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this or for doing this and how you how you pretended
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it was all OK. And again, spicy. But the core
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lesson in that was very touching for me because
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what he was saying was in the generation that
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she was a part of, it was that boomer generation
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of I have to be strong for my kids. I can't let
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them know that I'm hurting. I have to be strong.
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And in so doing, if you take that too far, then
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the child looks at you. who's not struggling
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with anything because you're holding the image.
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And then they feel broken because they don't
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feel that in them. And they're like, okay, if
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mom's, you know, little kid Ted Lasso was looking
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at his mom going, well, she's fine. What's wrong
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with me? I have to be fine too. So then he's
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posturing and pretending and always positive
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until at some point he has a panic attack and
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he like loses it. Because our bodies are always,
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you said the wave is going to come. The wave
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was crushing him. And so he was challenging his
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mother because he had finally gotten to a point
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to realize that that was unhealthy. So I love
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that your daughter gets to, I love that you have
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allowed your daughter to see and you share in
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that, that you're initiating and saying, hey,
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I'm just missing her a lot today. And to a certain
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extent, I think. Obviously, you know how that's
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beneficial for both of you. But I love reflecting
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on how that could be a blessing for her. Because
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sometimes she may not have the words. She may
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not even realize why she's down. And she hears
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you say that. And she's like, yeah. And so that
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parallel, I just talked about it maybe two, three
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episodes ago because we had just watched that
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again. And I'm like, man, it's too powerful not
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to talk about. I get that some people won't like
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the F word being used in that sequence. I totally
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get it. But the message is so, I mean, I grew
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up with boomer parents, you know, and that's
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how it was. Be strong, pretend, you know, there's
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almost a lack of acknowledgement for hardship,
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for pain, for grief. And so I just, that made
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me think. of those two things together of how
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you're doing that differently yeah there's no
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way to do it perfectly but you but you can do
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it authentically and safely right and so i want
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my daughter she's she has seen me cry my congregation
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has seen me cry like as i'm preaching on these
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things we're in a mental health series right
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now and i'm like man That you planned a hundred
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minutes ago, by the way. Yeah, that we planned
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in advance. Like, it was planned a year ago.
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And so I'm like, man, I've had... The sermon
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preparation is not just the books. Like, it's
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the heart, right? It's the preparation that the
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Lord does in you before He's like, oh, you want
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to tell people how to deal with mental difficulties?
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You've had them. We've had them the whole time.
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I'm not in any way saying that this happened
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because the Lord wanted me to write a better
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sermon. But... The Lord does prepare people and
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listeners and say, okay, there's something, something
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I can't explain. But there's, so she has seen
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me, she's seen me cry before she passed. She's
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seen me cry after. I didn't try to become a different
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person. I do try to become a more mature person,
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a better person, right? But I don't become a
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different person. What'd you say? I try to become
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an optimized. The emotions, man, they can. They
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can really get the better of you if you don't
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tell them what's true. You don't tell them where
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to go. You can stay, but it's like you got sometimes
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like grief or anger or whatever. They've got
00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:48.220
these rowdy emotions. And it's like, all right,
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you can stay. Just make sure you wipe your feet
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before you come in and don't break anything.
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It's like you can have fun and then go because
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I can't pretend like you don't exist. Right.
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But I can give you some rules. to make sure that
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.399
you don't trash the place because I'm not the
00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.720
only person that needs this space. My daughter
00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.679
needs this space. My friends need this space.
00:14:08.019 --> 00:14:12.779
The people that... My congregation doesn't think
00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:16.179
of me as anything... They don't pedestal. We're
00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:20.139
all here for Jesus, but the reality is my discipleship
00:14:20.139 --> 00:14:25.000
is on display to an extent. I don't do that hypocritically.
00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:27.059
I try to do that authentically as well whenever
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:30.460
I tell them. i tell my elders i tell my team
00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:33.100
like and today like i've told my staff i'm like
00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:35.220
hey i'm gonna be in a weird headspace today because
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:39.879
you know yeah i i saw the first car that we purchased
00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:44.019
together driving down the road and so i'm gonna
00:14:44.019 --> 00:14:46.820
take some time i'll be okay but i just let them
00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:49.059
know and they're like okay we get it it's not
00:14:49.059 --> 00:14:52.059
because if you don't do that the emotions win
00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:56.100
over you and then you start to act that like
00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:58.399
they just take over your brain yeah And then
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.100
you start taking that out on other people. And
00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:04.340
you start, you know, other people start to get
00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:09.259
fearful of your anger. Because you haven't dealt
00:15:09.259 --> 00:15:11.299
with it properly. It's the classic Hulk, right?
00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:13.440
Oh, no, he's turning green. Everybody hide. Everybody
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:17.639
run. Versus the, you know, it's a controlled
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:22.240
burn, I guess. Yeah. Tell it where to go. Yeah.
00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:27.139
The rowdy emotions. That's a good way to put
00:15:27.139 --> 00:15:31.259
that. Emotions typically happen first. A lot
00:15:31.259 --> 00:15:33.039
of times they're tied to the limbic system, so
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.259
they're immediate. They have that effect. And
00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:39.220
then the cerebral part, it takes a moment to
00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.379
move all that forward, think logically, analytically,
00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:45.519
and get out of the limbic response, the fight
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.919
or flight or whatever. And so it does take practice
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:54.360
and intentionality to... You know, something
00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.259
as simple as breath work is so... It's your body
00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:00.679
feels it before you know it, right? Yes. And
00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.360
so my counselor and my counselors went up New
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.000
Inch Wanders, Restoration House Family Care in
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.460
Carthage. I recommend them. They... Like, what
00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:12.159
muscles are tense right now? Like, where are
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:13.840
you feeling your emotions in your body? And I'm
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:15.159
like, well, I don't think I'm feeling my emotions
00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:16.500
in my body. Like, at first, what does that mean?
00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:19.460
I'm not feeling emotions in my body, but my eyebrows
00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:21.320
are really tired because they've been like this
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.600
for the last 20 minutes. Is that what you mean?
00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:26.000
Like, yeah, that's what I mean. Okay, my eyebrows
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:27.679
are doing this. Why are my eyebrows doing this?
00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:30.980
Oh, I'm worried or whatever. So it's like, do
00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:32.500
you breathe? And you're just like, all right,
00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:34.360
just take some breaths. Just slow down. Okay,
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.080
now what's your body telling you? And it's not
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.639
a long time. It's just 30 seconds. You can do
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:44.379
it at a stoplight You can just breathe and say
00:16:44.379 --> 00:16:47.799
where am I feeling it up shoulders tense or you
00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.879
know my stomach? It's in my stomach. It's a deep
00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.440
feeling so you just Talk like just listen your
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.759
body is talking to you all the time But if you're
00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.500
wanting to shut out and numb every like I want
00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:02.799
to numb grief. I want to numb pain The only way
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.140
to successfully do that is to numb all of it
00:17:05.609 --> 00:17:07.769
And so you don't listen to what your body is
00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:12.309
saying and you end up staying in a situation
00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:16.289
that's worse for longer because you don't realize
00:17:16.289 --> 00:17:22.490
you have to feel it to get past it. I had a counselor
00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:26.829
tell me, like, grief, the gift of grief. Yeah.
00:17:26.849 --> 00:17:29.809
Right? She put it in quotes. She's like, it can
00:17:29.809 --> 00:17:33.359
be a gift if you will allow it to be. Yeah. But
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.359
you have to learn to step into it, to not fight
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:42.859
it, to feel it, and then go, okay, what does
00:17:42.859 --> 00:17:45.440
the Lord have for me on the other side of this
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.180
moment right now? Like, what is it that he desires
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:53.839
to teach me or refine in me or work out in me
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:58.619
because of this situation or because of this
00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:02.599
experience? And even something like... losing
00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.319
a loved one there there is things to be learned
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.720
and refining to be done so that I look more like
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.700
my Jesus on the other side of that and so I've
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:18.680
thought a lot about that as in processing my
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.740
grief and in and even like you know the people
00:18:23.740 --> 00:18:26.920
that are in our sphere in Joplin like they're
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.819
watching how how we grieve You know, and I've
00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:31.619
had the same conversations with my team a couple
00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:33.099
of days. I'm like, hey, I'm going to shut my
00:18:33.099 --> 00:18:37.400
door today. I just, today's, you know, today's
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.140
whatever. Or, you know, yeah, August is weird.
00:18:41.500 --> 00:18:44.859
Like, or like the day that was Sarah's birthday.
00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:48.839
You know, it was, and I even had a friend who
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:50.180
reached out and texted me. She's like, hey, I'm
00:18:50.180 --> 00:18:51.680
just a little extra thought and prayer for you
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.579
today. And I was like, I hadn't realized what
00:18:54.579 --> 00:18:59.000
day it was. She realized it and saw it. on Facebook
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.400
before I even did. Because I quit being on Facebook
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:03.480
and it was like, oh my gosh, it's Sarah. Yeah,
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.980
she gave you preparation love, right? Yeah, she
00:19:05.980 --> 00:19:09.460
did. Before I even like, I went, oh, it is. And
00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:16.900
so it's those moments of learning to see it for
00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:21.779
what it can be, but not living in, I think both
00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:25.059
things of like the way that Ted's mom did it
00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:27.750
of completely shut it down, right? versus like
00:19:27.750 --> 00:19:29.549
complete and utter meltdown. I'm not getting
00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:32.430
out of bed. Like I can't function ever again,
00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:35.430
ever again. Both of those things are bad and
00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:38.029
not the way to do that. And I think you have
00:19:38.029 --> 00:19:42.109
to find somewhere in the middle of it. And, you
00:19:42.109 --> 00:19:45.970
know, we've talked a lot about how it is cyclical
00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:48.029
and it's a little bit like riding a roller coaster
00:19:48.029 --> 00:19:49.990
or it's a little bit like, you know, whatever
00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:52.990
analogy you want to use, it's going to come and
00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:55.849
go. And, and, you know, grief is going to come
00:19:55.849 --> 00:19:58.779
and sit. for a while and then he'll leave and
00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:00.900
then he'll come back another time when you least
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:04.900
expect it and you're not prepared but i i think
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:09.140
learning to actually be able to name what the
00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:12.859
emotion is yeah and to sit for a minute and to
00:20:12.859 --> 00:20:17.339
you know for me to like stop and go why am i
00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:21.440
so sad today or why am i angry today or why am
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.089
i it's not always It's not always manifest itself
00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:28.490
in sadness. It can, but it can manifest itself
00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:31.450
in a myriad of other ways. Indulgence? Yeah.
00:20:31.829 --> 00:20:36.150
It can be so many different things. It's like
00:20:36.150 --> 00:20:38.990
to sit and stop and to go, okay, hang on. This
00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:43.750
is not normal for me. What is this actually?
00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:48.089
And I have found that when I will actually figure
00:20:48.089 --> 00:20:51.650
out and name what that emotion is, it somewhat
00:20:51.650 --> 00:20:56.539
loses its power. like when I can can go hang
00:20:56.539 --> 00:21:01.099
on wait a minute this is xyz take your pick right
00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:04.279
it actually like it's almost like it deflates
00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.640
the balloon like I it it it grew and grew and
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:09.099
grew because I wasn't dealing with it I wasn't
00:21:09.099 --> 00:21:10.799
naming it and wasn't figuring it out and then
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.960
the minute I went this is grief yeah it's almost
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:18.099
like I I then could now deal with all of these
00:21:18.099 --> 00:21:21.390
feelings better and all of these emotions And
00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:22.990
maybe that's what you're talking about of going
00:21:22.990 --> 00:21:25.849
from the back to the front. Like it finally hit
00:21:25.849 --> 00:21:27.609
this. Yeah. You're grabbing the steering wheel.
00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:31.109
It took long. Yeah. And so it's, I don't know.
00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.390
That's been a big thing for me of like when I
00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:36.910
can actually go, this is what it is. And then
00:21:36.910 --> 00:21:39.490
the telling other people. Yeah. Allowing other
00:21:39.490 --> 00:21:43.480
people to come along in that. Because it's way
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.519
easier to acknowledge it to myself and go, okay,
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.119
cool. But it's a whole other thing to tell him
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:54.940
or to tell my team or to be willing and vulnerable
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:57.460
enough to say, I'm struggling today. It's also
00:21:57.460 --> 00:21:59.559
difficult to tell the person that you think,
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.079
well, if I'm struggling, I don't want to tell
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:02.779
them because they may be struggling more and
00:22:02.779 --> 00:22:05.480
I don't want to cause them to spiral. You don't
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.259
want to tell somebody that you were also friends
00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:11.339
with her. But man, I don't want to tell. the
00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:13.880
husband that I'm having a hard day but you know
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:17.880
I care about you guys and your relationship with
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.880
her as well so it's like sometimes people almost
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.279
you know back away from you because like that's
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.119
some people try to say something because they
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.599
care and other people back away and they suffer
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.299
away from you because they don't want you to
00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:32.980
see their suffering because I think it's like
00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:36.000
a comparison game like it would be embarrassing
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.220
for him to see me cry about this because of what
00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:44.000
he's going through. It's that comparative suffering
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.759
piece that is real unhealthy. Comparison obviously
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.720
has a lot of bad qualities. Thief of joy and
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.400
cause envy, jealousy, those kinds of things.
00:22:55.539 --> 00:22:58.400
But comparative suffering is usually what I see
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:03.869
people do in where they... The most common way
00:23:03.869 --> 00:23:06.829
I see it is when people discount their own experience
00:23:06.829 --> 00:23:10.289
because someone else's is comparatively worse.
00:23:10.769 --> 00:23:14.710
Especially with somebody who wrestles with negative
00:23:14.710 --> 00:23:16.609
self -talk and those kinds of things, they'll
00:23:16.609 --> 00:23:18.549
be like, well, look at that guy. He just lost
00:23:18.549 --> 00:23:22.250
his spouse and he seems okay, so why don't I
00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:25.930
have my crap together? That's what I mean by
00:23:25.930 --> 00:23:29.420
comparative sufferings. In that comparison, is
00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:31.900
used as a weapon against them for either not
00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:35.599
being worse or better or where they think they
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.119
should be. And I just see so many people discount
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.700
their own experience. The same thing is true
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.140
with like. testimonies and things like that.
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:47.059
They're like, well, I wasn't homeless eating
00:23:47.059 --> 00:23:50.799
chicken legs out of a dumpster, so I couldn't
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.079
possibly... I was in college and I ate chicken
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.180
legs out of a dumpster. Well, no, you're right.
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.200
So the comparison then, it's almost like you're
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.960
trying to circumvent the process of what you're
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:04.240
talking about, naming it, right? Because if I
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.799
can compare or whatever, then I can ignore it.
00:24:06.819 --> 00:24:09.390
I've got an excuse for it. because it's harder
00:24:09.390 --> 00:24:11.609
to go through what you're saying where you name
00:24:11.609 --> 00:24:14.630
it and it loses its power but it doesn't lose
00:24:14.630 --> 00:24:16.970
its presence like it's still there very much
00:24:16.970 --> 00:24:19.650
yeah that is true um and i think it's interesting
00:24:19.650 --> 00:24:22.009
we've talked about these these waves and like
00:24:22.009 --> 00:24:24.309
at first the grief is like a tsunami that just
00:24:24.309 --> 00:24:26.869
kind of floods you and then the grief share program
00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:29.049
they were like the waves get a little bit smaller
00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:31.430
and they get a little you know a little more
00:24:31.430 --> 00:24:34.569
farther apart right and uh the the way that i
00:24:34.569 --> 00:24:37.109
took that whenever it was that particular video
00:24:37.900 --> 00:24:40.619
I just said to myself, you know, the same huge
00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:43.140
waves that can sink a ship eventually become
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:45.200
the waves that children play in on the beach.
00:24:45.859 --> 00:24:49.319
And so there's something that happens as these
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:54.319
waves get smaller. People get relaxing on a beach
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:58.440
with waves. That wave used to be somewhere in
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.460
the middle of the ocean, very dangerous. And
00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:03.900
so I'm not saying you need to try to ride gigantic
00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:05.559
grief waves. Sometimes you just hunker down.
00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:09.490
they do get smaller they do get further in between
00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:11.890
and everybody's got a different pace for them
00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:14.970
and the best friendships we haven't even talked
00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:18.250
about this yet the thought of how an introvert
00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:22.630
versus an extrovert grieves in friendships because
00:25:22.630 --> 00:25:27.740
i as an extrovert have multiple friendship groups
00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:30.740
just because i'm more i'm not saying that my
00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:33.180
friendships are an inch deep and a mile wide
00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:36.140
i think i'm somewhere toward a very deep and
00:25:36.140 --> 00:25:39.460
wide friendship with a lot of people and so then
00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:44.500
you and you and i are all grieving as a friend
00:25:44.500 --> 00:25:46.920
group differently than people that you have never
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.180
met that i'm friends with and we're grieving
00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:52.099
that differently it's not you there's no same
00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:54.400
formula for every friend group it's almost you
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:57.759
have to be adaptable to the way all of your different
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:01.039
beautiful friendships paint this picture of walking
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.880
you in a different path you know okay and some
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:06.460
people they're inspired you i have to give them
00:26:06.460 --> 00:26:08.319
space for like i'd rather really rather not talk
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.039
about it because the way i agree is just being
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.839
reflective or quiet or meditative right and i'm
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:16.680
not i'm not like well i party so if you're not
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:21.099
partying you know it's not like uh every friendship
00:26:21.099 --> 00:26:24.150
group there's no cookie cutter way to grieve
00:26:24.150 --> 00:26:26.730
with a friend. Because you guys know that even
00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:29.349
in your marriage, you're different people, but
00:26:29.349 --> 00:26:32.789
you're somehow this unit. Right. And so in a
00:26:32.789 --> 00:26:35.430
friendship, we're all different personalities,
00:26:35.549 --> 00:26:37.309
different people, but we're a unit. And then
00:26:37.309 --> 00:26:39.910
all of these different friendships are different
00:26:39.910 --> 00:26:42.869
units. And that's what I mean by like a faith
00:26:42.869 --> 00:26:44.630
community. It's just all of these units come
00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:46.329
together for one purpose, and that's just to
00:26:46.329 --> 00:26:49.789
walk this life well for the real reason why we're
00:26:49.789 --> 00:26:55.940
all here. Well, and I remember like you talking
00:26:55.940 --> 00:26:57.779
about introvert versus extrovert, like having
00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:59.900
the conversation, you know, shortly after she
00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:04.240
passed of like, okay, it's, it's okay for you
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.240
to like stay home one night and not have to fill
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.480
your evenings with people. Like you probably
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.680
need to actually like take some time to yourself
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.150
and to, to stay at home and to like. Kate is
00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:18.309
an introvert and Kate needs to like come down
00:27:18.309 --> 00:27:20.430
out of people for a while. Right. And so like
00:27:20.430 --> 00:27:23.269
that, like acknowledgement, even for yourself,
00:27:23.349 --> 00:27:24.750
it was like, I'm going to actually have to do
00:27:24.750 --> 00:27:27.029
the opposite of what most people do in that.
00:27:27.109 --> 00:27:29.490
I'm going to have to like choose to stay home.
00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:31.970
Yeah. Yeah. She's a selective extrovert. Yes.
00:27:31.990 --> 00:27:36.309
Yes. Right. And, and I am, I am like all inclusive
00:27:36.309 --> 00:27:39.829
extrovert, like everybody is in. Right. Uh, and
00:27:39.829 --> 00:27:43.569
so the space for her then is she, she wants.
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:45.980
she likes for me to be there and i like to be
00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:47.759
there i want to be there this is my home right
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.660
you know i'm not trying to run from my home yeah
00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:53.460
uh so even if she wants me there and i need to
00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:55.160
be there because there's no you know we don't
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:57.799
have any activities going on that night i don't
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:00.660
detach from that even if it's she's in her room
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:03.960
reading and i'm like okay she can be in her room
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:06.680
reading and i can be you know doing some dishes
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.259
or whatever lol dishes who does those am i right
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:16.140
no but i can be still in in the area so that
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:18.099
you never know like there have been times we
00:28:18.099 --> 00:28:19.579
did it's not just like with my daughter it's
00:28:19.579 --> 00:28:22.819
with with anybody i find that the best thing
00:28:22.819 --> 00:28:24.940
you can do is just have your silence with them
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:28.339
and then you say i don't know why i'm here but
00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:30.299
i feel like i'm supposed to be here in this moment
00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:32.359
with this person and they're just doing something
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:33.559
it's almost like they're not paying attention
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.259
to you and suddenly they just turn and go hey
00:28:36.259 --> 00:28:39.039
let's talk about this and you go oh that's why
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.630
i was here so i don't have to be like you know
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:43.809
on the top of her bunk with her down there we're
00:28:43.809 --> 00:28:46.670
all reading our stories together i can be you
00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:50.109
know i can be in in my recliner while she's in
00:28:50.109 --> 00:28:54.930
her room but we're still yeah getting through
00:28:54.930 --> 00:28:58.359
it her way and also my way at the same time.
00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:02.259
Like that one night you stayed up late in Florida
00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:06.259
and just hung out in silence. We walked like
00:29:06.259 --> 00:29:08.859
20 ,000 steps, rode all these roller coasters,
00:29:09.019 --> 00:29:10.960
carrying the pack with all the stuff. I'm pretty
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:15.920
tired. She's got like 12 -year -old energy. I'm
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:17.839
telling you, if you could just attach youth to
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.220
the grid, the power grid, we would have renewable
00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:23.920
energy. She was just like, hey, I want to go
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.440
swimming. I'm like, awesome. She's like, do you
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.740
want to swim? I was like, you know, I do. I mean,
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.880
I said, how about this? I won't really swim because
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:33.480
I'm pretty tired, but I do think it would feel
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:35.619
good for me to put my feet in the water. And
00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:37.880
so I'm like, I want to be with you. I don't want
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:39.960
to get in the pool and then have to try to get
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.640
out and do all this other stuff. Like, I just,
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.759
I do want to be here. And I do want to put my
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:46.859
feet in the water. How about that? And she was
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:49.279
like, yeah. And we had a very good, healthy,
00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:51.000
serious conversation. It took a little while.
00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:52.680
She was swimming around and I was splashing and
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:54.339
we talked about the day and we talked about the
00:29:54.339 --> 00:29:56.279
stars. We talked about, you know, there's a whole
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:58.220
lot more planes in bigger cities than in Arkansas,
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:01.059
you know, all the different things. And then
00:30:01.059 --> 00:30:04.960
that was just the, there's, man, I wish that
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.440
there were an easy way to get to the hard conversation,
00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:14.769
but it just switched. Yep. And can we talk about
00:30:14.769 --> 00:30:18.670
this? Absolutely. And I wasn't there. And if
00:30:18.670 --> 00:30:21.829
she didn't say anything at all difficult or had
00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:23.690
that, I still, it still would have been absolutely
00:30:23.690 --> 00:30:26.269
the right move for me to be there. I'm not there
00:30:26.269 --> 00:30:28.630
just in case she says something, but, but that
00:30:28.630 --> 00:30:31.910
was a space where it was safe for stuff to come.
00:30:31.930 --> 00:30:35.630
And for her to know, like, we don't always have
00:30:35.630 --> 00:30:38.589
to talk about that. Like we can talk about other
00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:40.690
things. Dad is safe to have other conversations
00:30:40.690 --> 00:30:43.450
with because you've been intentional and you've
00:30:43.450 --> 00:30:46.670
had other conversations. I mean, the girl's been
00:30:46.670 --> 00:30:49.089
through a lot of things. So like you've had a
00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:52.069
lot of time to have conversations that for a
00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:54.029
12 year old, she shouldn't have to have been
00:30:54.029 --> 00:30:56.650
having in her life yet, but this is just that
00:30:56.650 --> 00:30:59.130
next phase. But because you've already been having
00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:01.349
those conversations and you have conversations
00:31:01.349 --> 00:31:04.609
about other things, she knows that's a safe space
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:08.549
and I can trust dad. to bring up this hard thing.
00:31:08.549 --> 00:31:10.650
This is not going to be the only time we're allowed
00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:14.390
to talk about this. It's not locked. Even if
00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:16.589
we close it now, we can open it up later. You
00:31:16.589 --> 00:31:18.829
said things that she shouldn't have to go through,
00:31:18.930 --> 00:31:20.670
and that's very true. None of us should have
00:31:20.670 --> 00:31:22.069
to go through any of this, really. We believe
00:31:22.069 --> 00:31:24.490
that the world was perfect, and we... brought
00:31:24.490 --> 00:31:28.269
in this this grief and stuff uh and so i i feel
00:31:28.269 --> 00:31:30.309
a weird thing about grief grief and i have a
00:31:30.309 --> 00:31:32.650
different relationship now than before because
00:31:32.650 --> 00:31:34.809
before i was like i'm really not wanting to grieve
00:31:34.809 --> 00:31:37.109
like i don't want to go through this and then
00:31:37.109 --> 00:31:39.789
when you when you have to go through it the grief
00:31:39.789 --> 00:31:44.049
is it's in an odd way i guess i say i belong
00:31:44.049 --> 00:31:47.769
here i belong in this grief because of the love
00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:50.349
that i had the reality that they're gone i belong
00:31:50.349 --> 00:31:53.759
here it's it's not it's it's not the space i
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.279
wanted to be in right but i think it would be
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.900
a worse space to lose somebody that you and then
00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:01.420
not like suddenly not care like be able to to
00:32:01.420 --> 00:32:04.799
turn it off like so this is this is a space where
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.940
i'm supposed to be and and since the price you're
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:10.720
you're this is the price you're willing to pay
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.160
so if i belong here and nobody's nobody gets
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.940
out of this life without experiencing grief yep
00:32:16.940 --> 00:32:19.920
and so this is a stage where we're supposed to
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.230
be For as long as we're supposed to be here.
00:32:23.309 --> 00:32:25.910
Yeah, and so it's just weird when you think it's
00:32:25.910 --> 00:32:27.869
like, you know You guys go to the gym pretty
00:32:27.869 --> 00:32:30.230
frequently and it's like I belong here. It's
00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.829
gonna be tough I'm gonna push myself, but I'm
00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:34.690
gonna I'm gonna grow from this I belong here.
00:32:34.809 --> 00:32:37.549
I belong in this difficult situation You know,
00:32:37.589 --> 00:32:39.789
we do that in so many different ways like I belong
00:32:39.789 --> 00:32:43.650
in the difficult process of saving financially
00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:45.630
This is difficult, but I belong here because
00:32:45.630 --> 00:32:49.289
the future is gonna be this so I belong in this
00:32:49.289 --> 00:32:51.839
grief because of the relationship that led me
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:57.059
here this is a natural response and so it's not
00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:59.539
like like own it like it's not about trying to
00:32:59.539 --> 00:33:06.319
win it it's about trying to walk it as you were
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.000
saying that the image that came to my mind was
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.539
the illustration between the buffalo and the
00:33:13.539 --> 00:33:16.720
cow oh yeah when storms come right so those of
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.799
you who don't know the When a storm approaches,
00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.500
cows are known to run away from the storm and
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.640
bison by contrast. And there are some brands
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.440
built around this on purpose because the imagery
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.799
is really powerful that when a storm comes, bison
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.640
turn to face the storm. Into the storm is the
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:39.279
phrase. Shout out Rich Froning. And they face
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.319
that storm head on. And so that's exactly what
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:49.940
you described. It's coming. I thought it was
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:51.420
like, maybe some people will hear that wrong.
00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:54.819
Like, no, it sounds like he chose it. I didn't
00:33:54.819 --> 00:33:57.619
choose it. It's like, no, no, the storm in that
00:33:57.619 --> 00:33:59.519
illustration, the storm's coming either way.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:01.980
It's just, are you going to be a cow? Are you
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:04.779
going to be a bison? And these bison aren't very
00:34:04.779 --> 00:34:06.519
rarely by themselves, right? They're in a herd.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.079
And so if the rest of the herd starts to turn
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:11.820
to face it and you realize I'm facing the wrong
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.059
way. So everybody else faithfully turns toward
00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:17.539
the storm to get through it. And you realize,
00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:21.630
Oh, there's always one that's the last one to
00:34:21.630 --> 00:34:24.909
turn. There just has to be. And there's usually
00:34:24.909 --> 00:34:27.610
one that's the first to turn and senses the storm,
00:34:27.690 --> 00:34:30.789
right? And so it doesn't matter. Just as long
00:34:30.789 --> 00:34:33.809
as as a community, everybody's turning. And I
00:34:33.809 --> 00:34:36.849
see you turn toward the storm and go through
00:34:36.849 --> 00:34:39.389
it and lean into your faith and lean into your
00:34:39.389 --> 00:34:42.670
Savior. And then it's like, well, I need to kind
00:34:42.670 --> 00:34:46.289
of turn this way too. Because it works. Yep.
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.739
Any additional veins or thoughts? I've got one.
00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:57.139
Helpful things? Thank you for being there for
00:34:57.139 --> 00:35:00.420
all of it, from literally being the person who
00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:04.619
introduces me to my wife to being somebody that
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:08.460
has always been intentionally and connected.
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:14.119
You know, it's... A beautiful thing. And I know,
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:16.380
I just know it's going to continue no matter,
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.460
no matter what happens. Like right now there's
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:22.199
four of us because my daughter's at the house.
00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:25.739
But eventually she's hopefully going to go and
00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:28.800
graduate. And who knows what this friendship
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.219
and the family dynamics looks like for all of
00:35:31.219 --> 00:35:36.000
us. But I just have this complete certainty that
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.920
it's going to be done together. And I just, I
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:46.980
can't thank you enough. love you dearly love
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:53.519
you yeah same i remember thinking you know especially
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.559
earlier this year when the waves were tall and
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:01.980
frequent um and i i just you know i was like
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:10.500
this is not fun but um i i'd make this i'd make
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:13.530
the same choices involving this scenario absolutely
00:36:13.530 --> 00:36:17.969
every time absolutely so and there's such comfort
00:36:17.969 --> 00:36:21.190
in that yeah you know that i'm not like why did
00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:22.769
you introduce why did you introduce me to this
00:36:22.769 --> 00:36:24.710
amazing person i'm like absolutely i would have
00:36:24.710 --> 00:36:27.610
done the exact same thing i would pick it again
00:36:27.610 --> 00:36:33.630
yeah over and over yeah and i think in in processing
00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:38.429
you know it's i've thought about this a lot like
00:36:38.429 --> 00:36:43.280
what was different in in losing like losing his
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:48.840
mom versus losing sarah like losing sarah has
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:53.320
been far harder than losing his mom and there's
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:55.480
a myriad of reasons for that you know i think
00:36:55.480 --> 00:37:00.380
it's mother -in -law you know it's the it's the
00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:04.519
years of the time we didn't get yeah right but
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:12.000
also like i i mean we talked about this a the
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.300
hairy heart from Harry Potter, right? Like I'm
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:18.260
not going to choose to not love because it will
00:37:18.260 --> 00:37:22.840
hurt. Yeah. Like every time I would still adopt
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:27.559
that freshman kiddo on my floor 20 years ago
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:34.719
without even a question and, and the honor and
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:36.880
the privilege to have loved enough that it does
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:41.320
hurt. Yeah. That there is this. this whole, but
00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:47.280
also like not without hope and not without, um,
00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:51.019
you know, asking that the Lord would use conversations
00:37:51.019 --> 00:37:55.239
down the line when people watch the grief and,
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:01.679
and say, how, how are you? Okay. Right. How are
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.400
you? How are you waiting through this situation?
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.809
I only have one answer to that. Right? There
00:38:08.809 --> 00:38:13.530
is only one reason for that. And that this would
00:38:13.530 --> 00:38:19.949
ultimately point to the truth. Because that is
00:38:19.949 --> 00:38:22.469
the ultimate thing that Sarah would have wanted.
00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:27.750
Sure. And to honor her well would be to point
00:38:27.750 --> 00:38:30.409
to the one who carried her every step of the
00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:33.789
way. Yeah. And when you said, you know, how are
00:38:33.789 --> 00:38:37.480
you okay? I thought it's a... I also want to
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:41.119
ask what that person means by okay. What do you
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.860
mean by okay? Because if you mean unscathed,
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:49.780
I'm not. Don't get the idea that I'm not still
00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:55.820
healing. But if by okay you mean not in the bottom
00:38:55.820 --> 00:38:59.079
of a bottle or not doing the self -destructive
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.050
behaviors, then obviously the answer... is the
00:39:02.050 --> 00:39:04.469
same like you said it was that testimony of of
00:39:04.469 --> 00:39:07.250
faith in christ but i i want to make everybody
00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:10.469
has a different definition of okay yeah you know
00:39:10.469 --> 00:39:12.469
because some people may think that i'm not doing
00:39:12.469 --> 00:39:14.869
okay they may think well you know like he's still
00:39:14.869 --> 00:39:18.289
wearing his wedding ring in august whenever she
00:39:18.289 --> 00:39:20.969
passed in january maybe he's not okay like everybody
00:39:20.969 --> 00:39:23.170
has so many different definitions and so the
00:39:23.170 --> 00:39:25.510
most important thing is that you are comfortable
00:39:26.650 --> 00:39:28.929
If everybody else is allowed to grieve differently,
00:39:29.050 --> 00:39:31.210
it's amazing how we can say these things to other
00:39:31.210 --> 00:39:33.090
people. Like, you're allowed to grieve differently.
00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:34.730
You're allowed to grieve differently, but not
00:39:34.730 --> 00:39:38.369
me. Why do we do that to ourselves? I'm allowed
00:39:38.369 --> 00:39:42.269
to grieve differently. If we're all as unique
00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:44.949
as a fingerprint, then the way we respond to
00:39:44.949 --> 00:39:48.570
every situation should also be. There's no, we're
00:39:48.570 --> 00:39:50.550
supposed to be different. We're going to be different.
00:39:51.250 --> 00:39:53.570
So just allow yourself to say that. So it's like,
00:39:53.590 --> 00:39:56.139
well, what's your definition of okay? because
00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:58.900
i want to be clear because if you think that
00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:02.659
i'm doing the ted lasso's mom thing oh no i'm
00:40:02.659 --> 00:40:05.559
doing you a disservice right because if you think
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:11.000
like all done then no right so the clarity really
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:12.900
really does matter but then you can say yeah
00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:14.460
now that we're now that we're clearing the definition
00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:20.780
of okay right this is why yeah yeah yeah peace
00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:26.820
is a is huge huge component with that I hope
00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:29.599
that conversation was a blessing to you as we
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.800
discussed together these kinds of things. It's
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.039
real, it's raw, and that's exactly what we wanted
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.420
you to see and what we wanted you to eavesdrop
00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:42.639
to. So as always, thanks for listening to the
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.380
Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens
00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:48.440
when you take action. So subscribe, share this
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