Robert Glazer: The Revolutionary Idea to Rethink the Two Week Notice!

Speaker:
00:00:00
The traditional two week notice is killing companies.



Speaker:
00:00:03
But it's not for the reason you think.



Speaker:
00:00:05
So today I have Robert Glazer on the podcast.



Speaker:
00:00:09
He's the founder of a global marketing empire and a wall



Speaker:
00:00:13
street journal bestselling author.



Speaker:
00:00:15
He's revealing today that this respectful practice of giving two



Speaker:
00:00:20
weeks to leave a company like an employee or anyone on your team.



Speaker:
00:00:24
That it's actually destroying workplace relationships and



Speaker:
00:00:28
companies are losing a ton of money because of lost productivity.



Speaker:
00:00:32
And it's actually something Europeans, think we're pretty nuts



Speaker:
00:00:36
for keeping this, this ritual.



Speaker:
00:00:38
So, uh, the, the whole thing is that there's a counter-intuitive



Speaker:
00:00:42
approach that Robert's been teaching and implementing in his company



Speaker:
00:00:47
and others around the world.



Speaker:
00:00:48
And you gotta hear what it is in the way that he goes about it.



Speaker:
00:00:53
So you're not in this situation and you save a bunch of money and time



Speaker:
00:00:56
and help people out in the process.



Speaker:
00:00:58
So let's get into it.



Speaker:
00:00:59
Chat with Mr.



Speaker:
00:01:00
Robert Glazer.



Speaker:
00:01:04
All right, Robert, we're doing this.



Speaker:
00:01:06
I'm happy.



Speaker:
00:01:07
We made the time.



Speaker:
00:01:08
We got to think, uh, you know, good old friend, Charles Bird



Speaker:
00:01:11
for making this happen, super connector, got to shout him out,



Speaker:
00:01:14
you know, uh, how you doing today?



Speaker:
00:01:16
I know you're out in



Speaker:
00:01:17
I'm, I'm good.



Speaker:
00:01:18
We're, uh, we're, we're, we're getting close to, you know, the



Speaker:
00:01:21
holiday break, which is always my favorite time of year, because



Speaker:
00:01:24
it's the one time where when I break, the world is also breaking



Speaker:
00:01:29
and I don't get any emails.



Speaker:
00:01:31
So



Speaker:
00:01:31
Do you normally break at that time of year?



Speaker:
00:01:33
that's



Speaker:
00:01:34
There's plenty of times where you can take a week off and



Speaker:
00:01:36
you come back to 400 emails.



Speaker:
00:01:38
I, my email goes out to almost nothing over



Speaker:
00:01:40
Christmas week, so I love it.



Speaker:
00:01:41
Love it.



Speaker:
00:01:42
Well, you probably have the system you've dialed that in.



Speaker:
00:01:44
I'm sure, you know, over the years, well, we got connected, uh, you



Speaker:
00:01:48
know, from Charles saying, you know, Charles has been on the podcast



Speaker:
00:01:52
before, and the guy always selects great people that I should know,



Speaker:
00:01:56
and then I should share with others.



Speaker:
00:01:57
And.



Speaker:
00:01:59
He, he introduced us because of this book that, that just got released



Speaker:
00:02:02
recently called rethinking the two week re Rethinking Two Weeks Notice.



Speaker:
00:02:07
And you know, it's done really well.



Speaker:
00:02:10
And it was immediately a concept.



Speaker:
00:02:12
I was like, wait, yeah, the two week notice concept, like we've



Speaker:
00:02:15
all experienced it in some way,



Speaker:
00:02:17
we've all been on one side of it.



Speaker:
00:02:18
In fact, the book starts with, imagine you, there's an, I won't get



Speaker:
00:02:22
this correct, but you know, you're, you're sitting in your office



Speaker:
00:02:25
working, your employee comes in, they close the door and they say,



Speaker:
00:02:28
Hey Jody, have a, have a minute.



Speaker:
00:02:30
And like, you're like, you're hard to say.



Speaker:
00:02:32
And everyone's been through that conversation.



Speaker:
00:02:33
Like, you know what it's like?



Speaker:
00:02:36
And it never feels good either way, either side of the table, you



Speaker:
00:02:39
know, So why, I mean, yeah, two weeks.



Speaker:
00:02:42
It's so, cause ever since I started to job, you had a job at Burger



Speaker:
00:02:46
King back in the day, two week notice, you know, I knew that when



Speaker:
00:02:49
I was moving on up, got to give that two weeks, but it's like,



Speaker:
00:02:52
The why is interesting.



Speaker:
00:02:53
I've studied this pretty extensively.



Speaker:
00:02:55
Like most people, even Europeans, they don't understand.



Speaker:
00:02:58
Like it's not a real thing.



Speaker:
00:03:00
Like you are an employment at will in the U S you



Speaker:
00:03:03
can leave at any time.



Speaker:
00:03:04
You can leave on one minute's notice somewhere along the



Speaker:
00:03:06
way it became known as sort of the respectful, responsible



Speaker:
00:03:10
thing to give two weeks notice.



Speaker:
00:03:13
There are plenty and managers and leaders out there, you know, if



Speaker:
00:03:16
they have a, Number two, and they've worked with them for five years.



Speaker:
00:03:19
Like that doesn't feel respectful or helpful or anything.



Speaker:
00:03:22
So there's, and then there's people in Europe who are



Speaker:
00:03:24
like, I don't understand.



Speaker:
00:03:25
We have to give three months notice and it's statutory.



Speaker:
00:03:27
It's an on both sides.



Speaker:
00:03:28
So it's been around for a while.



Speaker:
00:03:32
The problem is, I'm always fascinated by cognitive dissonance.



Speaker:
00:03:36
You know, our ability to hold two different things in



Speaker:
00:03:37
our head at the same time.



Speaker:
00:03:39
We know that we're not in a market of lifetime employment



Speaker:
00:03:42
on the side of our brain.



Speaker:
00:03:43
We know there's no pensions.



Speaker:
00:03:44
People aren't going to work for our company for 10 or 15 years.



Speaker:
00:03:47
If you go through a list of the best companies in America, maybe



Speaker:
00:03:50
the average 10 years, two to three years, given that the bulk



Speaker:
00:03:53
of their employees are probably in their twenties and thirties.



Speaker:
00:03:55
So, so we intuitively know that when people go to leave, we



Speaker:
00:03:59
act more like it's a marriage.



Speaker:
00:04:01
Breakup than it is like the end of a sports contract, which is



Speaker:
00:04:05
really more what it should be like.



Speaker:
00:04:07
And so you have this hiding and lying and doctor appointments



Speaker:
00:04:11
because people don't know any other way to do it.



Speaker:
00:04:15
Uh, that's just sort of what they were told by their



Speaker:
00:04:17
forefathers and mothers.



Speaker:
00:04:19
Yeah, that's a good point.



Speaker:
00:04:20
And it's like you relate this to a, it should be



Speaker:
00:04:22
more like a sports contract.



Speaker:
00:04:24
It's usually two to three year deals ish.



Speaker:
00:04:26
And by the way, they should be evaluated, right?



Speaker:
00:04:28
Like we'd all be better if you signed a two year deal



Speaker:
00:04:30
and it's coming to the end.



Speaker:
00:04:31
I'm like, Joe, do I want to resign this?



Speaker:
00:04:33
Are you getting a raise?



Speaker:
00:04:34
Are you getting a pay cut?



Speaker:
00:04:35
What, you know, do, do, is it time to just.



Speaker:
00:04:39
Like we got a rookie and we want to try them, you know, instead.



Speaker:
00:04:42
So, but we're acting more like it's a marriage.



Speaker:
00:04:45
Uh, and so, you know, it is, which is not the right analogy.



Speaker:
00:04:50
So, so it's, it, it'd be the equivalent of if I said someone



Speaker:
00:04:54
just walked in your relationship, let me not a marriage.



Speaker:
00:04:56
You're dating someone.



Speaker:
00:04:57
They're like, look, I'm moving in two weeks.



Speaker:
00:04:59
I'm moving in with someone new and I'm going to a different city.



Speaker:
00:05:01
Like that's not going to feel so good.



Speaker:
00:05:03
No.



Speaker:
00:05:04
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:05:05
Like, what did I miss?



Speaker:
00:05:06
Why did we not



Speaker:
00:05:08
In that context, people are like, yeah, that's ridiculous.



Speaker:
00:05:10
I'm like, it's not that different than like, I've been working



Speaker:
00:05:13
for you and smiling every day and I've been securing a new



Speaker:
00:05:15
job for six months, right?



Speaker:
00:05:16
It's not that the only difference is the expectation, right?



Speaker:
00:05:19
That, that, so



Speaker:
00:05:21
Well, so how, how do you change that?



Speaker:
00:05:23
Like, you know, there, there's the two week concept.



Speaker:
00:05:26
So we got that and it's on both sides.



Speaker:
00:05:27
So I guess as someone being the employer or the higher,



Speaker:
00:05:31
or, you know, the one with the business, um, yeah.



Speaker:
00:05:34
what's what's the



Speaker:
00:05:35
So it's on, the onus is on the, there's a lot of



Speaker:
00:05:38
disclaimers with this book.



Speaker:
00:05:39
The first disclaimer is you don't read this book and go into your,



Speaker:
00:05:42
you know, company that fires people every time they say they're unhappy



Speaker:
00:05:45
and say, look, I want to talk.



Speaker:
00:05:46
I'm a little unhappy.



Speaker:
00:05:47
Like, so this is, this is really the, the employer needs



Speaker:
00:05:50
to say, we're changing the stigma around how people leave.



Speaker:
00:05:55
And I advocate for this concept called open



Speaker:
00:05:57
transition programs where.



Speaker:
00:05:59
Like when you want to leave, you can go through a period of



Speaker:
00:06:02
transition again, back to the sports analogy, someone's finishing



Speaker:
00:06:06
their free agent contract and you know, they're not signing with you.



Speaker:
00:06:09
They still play the game and they show up.



Speaker:
00:06:11
They haven't signed the new contract yet, but like they're



Speaker:
00:06:13
an adult, like they, you know, they're not tanking at the end.



Speaker:
00:06:16
They, you know, there's repercussions to that.



Speaker:
00:06:18
So this notion of, Hey, you can start a discussion.



Speaker:
00:06:21
It is totally safe.



Speaker:
00:06:22
And we said that to our employees when we started the program.



Speaker:
00:06:24
If you want to talk about.



Speaker:
00:06:25
I'm not feeling great about this.



Speaker:
00:06:26
I want to do something different.



Speaker:
00:06:27
Can I explore a different role?



Speaker:
00:06:29
I'm not saying, you know, we'll go on forever.



Speaker:
00:06:32
Like, but, but, but we are not going to walk you to the door tomorrow.



Speaker:
00:06:35
And actually with that information, we have a lot better chance



Speaker:
00:06:38
of creating a better outcome.



Speaker:
00:06:40
We might figure out it's not solvable.



Speaker:
00:06:41
And so you get to start, go looking for your next job



Speaker:
00:06:44
and winding down this job.



Speaker:
00:06:45
And we kind of do a rec and start hiring.



Speaker:
00:06:48
And if you're in a professional services business, I always like to



Speaker:
00:06:50
double click on this cause we are.



Speaker:
00:06:53
And you have a lot of service for like, what's the thing that annoys



Speaker:
00:06:56
you the most about a service firm?



Speaker:
00:06:58
What's the thing that makes you want to usually fire them the most



Speaker:
00:07:01
when you have, you know, on the



Speaker:
00:07:02
flip



Speaker:
00:07:02
I mean, it's gotta be communication is one of the biggest things.



Speaker:
00:07:05
If there's not good communication,



Speaker:
00:07:07
I'm like,



Speaker:
00:07:08
and what about when the person you love your account manager like



Speaker:
00:07:10
suddenly is gone like two weeks



Speaker:
00:07:12
later



Speaker:
00:07:12
That's even more, that's worse.



Speaker:
00:07:14
Trust,



Speaker:
00:07:15
well, yeah, so the number one thing people hate is when



Speaker:
00:07:17
they're the person they're dealing with like It's constantly



Speaker:
00:07:21
leaving and moving, right?



Speaker:
00:07:22
And this is how it plays out in reality.



Speaker:
00:07:25
If Joe is at my company and gives two weeks notice and the client



Speaker:
00:07:28
loves him, I have to go in there and Joe has to be like, look, I'm



Speaker:
00:07:31
actually leaving in two weeks.



Speaker:
00:07:32
You're going to have a new manager.



Speaker:
00:07:33
I don't know who it is.



Speaker:
00:07:34
Someone you don't know is going to get on the phone with you



Speaker:
00:07:36
or otherwise, like not good.



Speaker:
00:07:39
Joe enters our open transition program because he started



Speaker:
00:07:42
a conversation or we started a conversation saying, Joe,



Speaker:
00:07:44
your performance has been like really bad for a while.



Speaker:
00:07:46
Like Do you want to do the work on this?



Speaker:
00:07:48
Do you want to be doing something?



Speaker:
00:07:49
And Joe says, you know what?



Speaker:
00:07:50
I really just don't want to be doing sales or account management.



Speaker:
00:07:53
Can you, can you, can I, can I sort of start the



Speaker:
00:07:55
process of, uh, of leaving?



Speaker:
00:07:57
Well, what would happen was, you know, we'd, we'd grab Sarah or



Speaker:
00:08:00
hire Sarah and we'd start bringing Sarah to the first four or five



Speaker:
00:08:03
meetings and slowly Sarah would take over all the calls and build the



Speaker:
00:08:06
reporter client and then somewhere in six weeks, Joe's going to say to



Speaker:
00:08:09
the client, you know, I'm actually going to be leaving in a couple



Speaker:
00:08:12
of weeks and you've got to know Sarah and she's going to take over.



Speaker:
00:08:14
That's a totally different.



Speaker:
00:08:16
Experience for the client,



Speaker:
00:08:18
So it's kind of like you're shat.



Speaker:
00:08:19
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:08:19
There's communication happening well in advance and it's, and



Speaker:
00:08:22
it's, it's kind of an expectation of the company is that this



Speaker:
00:08:25
is how we operate, right?



Speaker:
00:08:27
Yeah, and one of the objections, I have a whole chapter on objection



Speaker:
00:08:30
handling in this objection to me, like we'll be like, this



Speaker:
00:08:34
won't work and it won't work.



Speaker:
00:08:35
Like, so one of them is, look, we can't have this person stay and



Speaker:
00:08:38
work like they're already toxic and it's already a mess and otherwise.



Speaker:
00:08:42
And I would say that, yes, that could be the case.



Speaker:
00:08:46
But, but for this person, but what the, the yeah.



Speaker:
00:08:50
Let's say, like, I'm firing Joe.



Speaker:
00:08:52
Let's pick on Joe.



Speaker:
00:08:53
I'm firing Joe today in December.



Speaker:
00:08:55
We're recording this probably around January, like, and we're



Speaker:
00:08:58
all pissed at each other now.



Speaker:
00:09:00
The early signs of the problem with this were probably in March, right?



Speaker:
00:09:05
And Joe's a little disengaged.



Speaker:
00:09:08
His work isn't great.



Speaker:
00:09:09
I could put Joe on a pip, or what I'm advocating for is like



Speaker:
00:09:13
real conversations where the manager sits down like, Joe,



Speaker:
00:09:16
Your work's been like, like definitely below par recently.



Speaker:
00:09:19
You kind of bit like what, what's going on?



Speaker:
00:09:21
And they have the psychological safety to do that.



Speaker:
00:09:24
And they have their relationship.



Speaker:
00:09:25
And I talk about, if you dig, this is called digging



Speaker:
00:09:27
to the root in the book.



Speaker:
00:09:28
And if you dig to the root, there's usually three.



Speaker:
00:09:31
There's three common routes, like things that the employee needs to



Speaker:
00:09:35
change, things that the employer can change if they want to, and



Speaker:
00:09:38
things that are not going to change.



Speaker:
00:09:39
So Joe might say to this conversation, You know what?



Speaker:
00:09:41
I lost my child care and I've been like exhausted



Speaker:
00:09:45
and stressed and I can make.



Speaker:
00:09:46
Okay, well, now I know this like.



Speaker:
00:09:48
Let's try to work around it.



Speaker:
00:09:49
You're gonna have to fix this.



Speaker:
00:09:50
You're gonna have to get child care and do the work.



Speaker:
00:09:52
But we can we can mess with your hours.



Speaker:
00:09:56
And like, I understand that this is sort of an external thing



Speaker:
00:09:58
that's impacting your work, right?



Speaker:
00:10:00
Joe might come in and say, Look, I couple things he could say.



Speaker:
00:10:04
I transferred.



Speaker:
00:10:05
Into sales last year and I really don't love it.



Speaker:
00:10:06
I'd like to go back to marketing or look, I know the last three people



Speaker:
00:10:10
you hired or paid more than me.



Speaker:
00:10:11
And I was promised a raise and this like months ago.



Speaker:
00:10:14
And so I'm just really frustrated.



Speaker:
00:10:16
And the company might be like, Oh yeah, we screwed this up.



Speaker:
00:10:18
Like Joe missed the cycle.



Speaker:
00:10:19
And so we fixed that.



Speaker:
00:10:20
Right.



Speaker:
00:10:21
So now in these first two cases, like we fixed their



Speaker:
00:10:24
different problems though.



Speaker:
00:10:25
We tend to.



Speaker:
00:10:26
The performance improvement plan is like giving a Tylenol that



Speaker:
00:10:28
everyone has a headache when like one person might be dehydrated.



Speaker:
00:10:33
One might be allergic to gluten and one might have a brain tumor, right?



Speaker:
00:10:36
There are different source reasons that they have a headache.



Speaker:
00:10:41
So in this first one, I figured out an external thing.



Speaker:
00:10:43
That's the problem.



Speaker:
00:10:44
We worked on it.



Speaker:
00:10:44
The second one is an internal or Joe might say, look, I'm missing office



Speaker:
00:10:48
and this is a remote only company.



Speaker:
00:10:49
And I might say, Joe, We're not opening offices anytime soon.



Speaker:
00:10:53
So why don't we help you go work at a company that has offices?



Speaker:
00:10:56
So Joe's misperformance was man, it was showing up in the results,



Speaker:
00:11:00
but like why it's happening plays a big part on whether I could, Joe's



Speaker:
00:11:05
gone from green to yellow, like, can I get him back to green either



Speaker:
00:11:10
on his way internally or out the door once he's on like red, red



Speaker:
00:11:13
and cause if I let this go on, then let's say I never found out that it



Speaker:
00:11:17
was your childcare, then I'm like, Yelling at you and get your lazy.



Speaker:
00:11:21
And then you're like, I mean, then like, by then we just



Speaker:
00:11:24
get to a point where the whole thing is unrecoverable.



Speaker:
00:11:27
The whole basis of this program is shifting that timeline



Speaker:
00:11:31
way earlier to the early warning detection systems.



Speaker:
00:11:35
And you'd be surprised how many times a real conversation, someone's



Speaker:
00:11:37
like, look, I just don't want to be in client service anymore.



Speaker:
00:11:40
And you're like, that's okay.



Speaker:
00:11:41
So why don't you start going to looking for a job



Speaker:
00:11:43
elsewhere and we'll start looking for your replacement.



Speaker:
00:11:46
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:11:47
So what, how, how early is too early, you know, to



Speaker:
00:11:51
have these conversations or at least like set the,



Speaker:
00:11:53
I think you should set this as you hire people.



Speaker:
00:11:56
Like I think not like, but you should, as you hire people,



Speaker:
00:11:59
you should, um, you should say, look, this is the way



Speaker:
00:12:03
people leave our organization.



Speaker:
00:12:04
By the way, it makes it like, if they made a mistake, they're going



Speaker:
00:12:06
to feel a lot better that like, there's a good way out of this.



Speaker:
00:12:09
So.



Speaker:
00:12:09
When you want to leave, this is how you leave, you know, just



Speaker:
00:12:12
so you know, and we have this program when you see a change in



Speaker:
00:12:16
performance or performance isn't being met, you should try to dig



Speaker:
00:12:19
in also just in regular check ins.



Speaker:
00:12:21
Like, how's it going?



Speaker:
00:12:22
Are you happy?



Speaker:
00:12:22
You're liking going to do engage.



Speaker:
00:12:24
And look, a lot of people will say one thing, but if you're



Speaker:
00:12:27
good manager and good, you will notice that their facial



Speaker:
00:12:30
expression, or have you ever asked someone about a reference?



Speaker:
00:12:33
And like, Joe, what do you think about Steve?



Speaker:
00:12:34
And they're like, Uh, and I'm like, you don't have



Speaker:
00:12:37
to answer the question.



Speaker:
00:12:38
I, I, I, I'm good.



Speaker:
00:12:39
I got it.



Speaker:
00:12:39
Like, whatever's coming out is not a raving endorsement.



Speaker:
00:12:42
Right.



Speaker:
00:12:43
So you say someone like, how's work?



Speaker:
00:12:45
Are you liking it?



Speaker:
00:12:46
Are you engaged in like, well, you know, and so like, that's



Speaker:
00:12:49
worth digging in because that's probably the early signs of a,



Speaker:
00:12:52
uh, of a, of a bigger problem.



Speaker:
00:12:55
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:12:56
Well, I was just creeping on your elevate podcast.



Speaker:
00:12:59
I saw you had Robert Cialdini on there.



Speaker:
00:13:01
I had him on my show years ago now.



Speaker:
00:13:04
Awesome.



Speaker:
00:13:04
But



Speaker:
00:13:05
my, like 15 books on my desk over here that has sort of



Speaker:
00:13:08
been my like mainstay books.



Speaker:
00:13:10
sent me one of them and signed it.



Speaker:
00:13:12
I was like, ah, this is cool.



Speaker:
00:13:13
Uh, but I'm thinking of just the psychological part right there.



Speaker:
00:13:16
It's like, there's different things that you want to pick up



Speaker:
00:13:18
on in conversation, in words, in tonality, in body language, you



Speaker:
00:13:23
know, it's like, and a lot of us are remote, so I'm sure it gets a



Speaker:
00:13:26
little tough, you know, with this kind of remote work culture that



Speaker:
00:13:30
I believe you built your companies



Speaker:
00:13:32
we're we're remote.



Speaker:
00:13:34
And look, this goes to my one and one.



Speaker:
00:13:36
So I the way I open a lot of things is like, hey, like, how's it going?



Speaker:
00:13:41
And that's a very open question.



Speaker:
00:13:43
That's not how's work or, you know, and a lot of times like I get



Speaker:
00:13:46
an answer like, You know, sucks.



Speaker:
00:13:49
I'm fighting with my ex wife again, and someone who's going



Speaker:
00:13:52
through, and that's what they want to talk about for 10 minutes.



Speaker:
00:13:54
And so like, we do that.



Speaker:
00:13:56
So these open ended questions give you, and then I might have thought



Speaker:
00:13:59
that this person was disengaged and not paying attention this week



Speaker:
00:14:03
or elsewhere, but really like, they just have a personal thing



Speaker:
00:14:05
going on that's like, In their way.



Speaker:
00:14:08
And maybe I could help them with that.



Speaker:
00:14:11
And then so then maybe like they're a little more



Speaker:
00:14:13
engaged it at work, right?



Speaker:
00:14:15
And obviously, like, if that's going on every day, that's a different



Speaker:
00:14:19
Yes,



Speaker:
00:14:21
I, I mentioned before, I'm a big student and fan of, I don't know,



Speaker:
00:14:24
fan of, but like, I'm always looking, I just think cognitive



Speaker:
00:14:27
dissonance is, is so interesting, causes so many problems.



Speaker:
00:14:30
And one of the core, I haven't, it's a spinoff of cognitive dissonance.



Speaker:
00:14:33
I haven't named this principle yet, but I'd like some psychologist



Speaker:
00:14:36
to do it for me is that.



Speaker:
00:14:38
Like this is the problem managers have.



Speaker:
00:14:40
So Joe's not, we'll keep picking on Joe.



Speaker:
00:14:42
Cause it's easy.



Speaker:
00:14:43
Joe's on my team and Joe's like a really good guy and he's on my sales



Speaker:
00:14:47
team, but he's at 50 percent of quota for four quarters in a row.



Speaker:
00:14:50
Right.



Speaker:
00:14:51
And so I'm like, I got to do a bad thing to Joe.



Speaker:
00:14:54
Like Joe's like, Joe's got to go, but I like Joe.



Speaker:
00:14:56
And so this brain does not know what to do with this.



Speaker:
00:14:59
So it has to solve the dissonance.



Speaker:
00:15:01
So the easiest path to solve it is like.



Speaker:
00:15:03
I'm going to make Joe out to be a bad person so that when I do a



Speaker:
00:15:07
bad thing, I'm the good person.



Speaker:
00:15:08
So I start being like, Oh, Joe's lazy.



Speaker:
00:15:11
He's not trying.



Speaker:
00:15:12
I've given him chances.



Speaker:
00:15:13
He's whatever.



Speaker:
00:15:13
So when I finally fired Joe, I'm like Joe deserved it.



Speaker:
00:15:16
And I'm now I'm disrespectful.



Speaker:
00:15:18
And now Joe's pissed and now he sues me.



Speaker:
00:15:19
And that's why we end up that the.



Speaker:
00:15:22
You could flip it and do it the other way.



Speaker:
00:15:24
You don't have to leaning into the relationships and having high



Speaker:
00:15:28
standards aren't mutually exclusive.



Speaker:
00:15:31
I can be like, Joe, love you.



Speaker:
00:15:32
Like, but the sales thing objectively isn't working.



Speaker:
00:15:35
We can see the numbers.



Speaker:
00:15:36
You're the lowest rep on here.



Speaker:
00:15:37
Like, what do you want to do?



Speaker:
00:15:39
Do you want to go to the sales training and do the work?



Speaker:
00:15:41
And like, I can give you a quarter or two to like,



Speaker:
00:15:44
Get up to everyone else.



Speaker:
00:15:45
But after that, my hands are tied.



Speaker:
00:15:46
Or like, do you want to do something else?



Speaker:
00:15:48
And should we look for internal or external?



Speaker:
00:15:50
Right?



Speaker:
00:15:51
Like that's the opportunity.



Speaker:
00:15:53
And if you've never tried one of these conversations,



Speaker:
00:15:56
they're actually like, people don't want to do a bad job.



Speaker:
00:15:59
They know when they're doing a bad job.



Speaker:
00:16:01
Like they're actually really refreshing



Speaker:
00:16:04
versus the normal process.



Speaker:
00:16:06
Yeah, it's like a check in, right?



Speaker:
00:16:08
Like, if you do these constant check ins, I do it with my team, you know.



Speaker:
00:16:12
Pure.



Speaker:
00:16:13
check in.



Speaker:
00:16:13
Right.



Speaker:
00:16:13
It's not a perfunctory one.



Speaker:
00:16:15
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:16:15
Well, and I think that's the thing is, is inherently we



Speaker:
00:16:18
have this work relationship.



Speaker:
00:16:19
So we feel like we have to, Oh, how's it going?



Speaker:
00:16:21
Well, I got to talk about work.



Speaker:
00:16:23
You know, it's like, I'm not going to bring up everything



Speaker:
00:16:25
about my family or kids or, you know, haven't been sleeping.



Speaker:
00:16:28
Cause I got a one year old at home.



Speaker:
00:16:30
So,



Speaker:
00:16:30
Right.



Speaker:
00:16:30
I mean, that may be the, that may be the source of your poor performance.



Speaker:
00:16:34
Right.



Speaker:
00:16:34
That right now.



Speaker:
00:16:35
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:16:36
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:16:37
So it's, it's interesting.



Speaker:
00:16:38
And the cognitive dissonance is a real thing.



Speaker:
00:16:41
Especially like if there is a problem that happens, we can choose



Speaker:
00:16:44
to, you know, go down the path of how did, how did this happen?



Speaker:
00:16:49
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:16:49
Like



Speaker:
00:16:50
You're trying to close the gap.



Speaker:
00:16:53
What your brain is always doing is it can't hold these two



Speaker:
00:16:56
incongruent things at the same time.



Speaker:
00:16:57
So it has to close the gap.



Speaker:
00:16:58
So it's either like, I'm going to do a bad thing.



Speaker:
00:17:01
So you're a bad person.



Speaker:
00:17:02
I'm actually saying, let's lean it the other way.



Speaker:
00:17:04
Like I'm a good person.



Speaker:
00:17:06
So, but, but I, I also, because I'm a good person, I



Speaker:
00:17:09
can't let Joe continue to fail and let down the whole team.



Speaker:
00:17:12
So I'm going to try to like lean into the relationship and



Speaker:
00:17:15
see if we can get a better.



Speaker:
00:17:17
Cause Joe's a, Joe's a good guy and he's trying, but it's



Speaker:
00:17:20
also not fair to let him suck.



Speaker:
00:17:22
Like, you



Speaker:
00:17:23
Yeah, And there's got to be a different shift or



Speaker:
00:17:25
something to find the root.



Speaker:
00:17:27
Of course, it sounds like dig to the root, which I think is a



Speaker:
00:17:30
super cool thing, because either on the employee, the employer,



Speaker:
00:17:33
or you just can't change it.



Speaker:
00:17:34
But you might as well talk about it, right?



Speaker:
00:17:36
exactly.



Speaker:
00:17:37
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:17:38
and you mentioned safety, because with this whole thing, and I know a



Speaker:
00:17:42
root human need for all of us is a sense of safety wherever we're at.



Speaker:
00:17:46
Right.



Speaker:
00:17:48
With this discussion, to me, it seems like that breeds safety



Speaker:
00:17:52
or at least this feeling of trust within an organization.



Speaker:
00:17:55
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:17:55
If you start having these conversations and people find out



Speaker:
00:17:58
that like, Oh, like, There's no negative consequence to it, right?



Speaker:
00:18:02
I mean, psychological safety is just is it's used a lot these days.



Speaker:
00:18:07
But like the definition for me is it's trusted scale.



Speaker:
00:18:09
So if you and I have trust and a one on one thing, I walk into a team



Speaker:
00:18:13
and I just sense that there's trust.



Speaker:
00:18:15
I can speak truth to power.



Speaker:
00:18:16
I can say, Joe, like, I think that's a terrible idea.



Speaker:
00:18:18
We're gonna lose our money and like no one's gonna know.



Speaker:
00:18:21
Be like, Oh my God, you can't say that in front of him.



Speaker:
00:18:23
Like, yeah, I, I, I, I always hate to say this.



Speaker:
00:18:27
I wish I had a better line, but, but having, it's a little like



Speaker:
00:18:30
the line on pornography where someone says, I can't define



Speaker:
00:18:33
it, but I know it when I see it.



Speaker:
00:18:35
Like I've been in company, you just see it in companies that have



Speaker:
00:18:38
psychological safety, you, you, you can see it, you can feel it.



Speaker:
00:18:42
But it's very hard to, like, put your finger on it.



Speaker:
00:18:45
Is it like a culture thing?



Speaker:
00:18:46
Or is it more than that?



Speaker:
00:18:48
yeah, it's part of the culture.



Speaker:
00:18:49
I think it's the core tenet of good cultures.



Speaker:
00:18:52
Um, but I think the two biggest components are, like,



Speaker:
00:18:55
vulnerability and feedback are pretty normalized, right?



Speaker:
00:18:58
I was, I was, I was Asked to give a keynote speak to peach to a company



Speaker:
00:19:02
for their leadership offsite.



Speaker:
00:19:04
And they invited me to join the meeting in the morning



Speaker:
00:19:06
before I was speaking.



Speaker:
00:19:07
And so they all went around and they did highs and lows, uh, you know,



Speaker:
00:19:11
and there was like a lot of tears and people sharing like some pretty



Speaker:
00:19:14
deep personal lows that they had.



Speaker:
00:19:17
And that was sort of my first tip off.



Speaker:
00:19:19
And then the second time they did a, Hey, what are the elephants



Speaker:
00:19:22
in the room starting our offsite?



Speaker:
00:19:23
And people said stuff and the CEO was right there and they



Speaker:
00:19:26
were pretty, you know, honest.



Speaker:
00:19:27
I was like, God, this team's going to have no problem.



Speaker:
00:19:29
Um, With their planning.



Speaker:
00:19:31
And then what they were doing later on was trying to do five and



Speaker:
00:19:33
10 year organizational planning.



Speaker:
00:19:35
And so to do that, you had to know, and they were like, look,



Speaker:
00:19:38
we're not sure that we're all going to be in these seats.



Speaker:
00:19:40
You know, we're going to plan out the seats.



Speaker:
00:19:41
And they went around and asked people like, Joe, how long do you



Speaker:
00:19:44
see yourself wanting to do this?



Speaker:
00:19:45
And you're like, I see myself here another, like Five years.



Speaker:
00:19:47
Someone's like 10 years.



Speaker:
00:19:48
So they were even being honest at like how long they wanted



Speaker:
00:19:51
to be at the company, but they needed that for the planning.



Speaker:
00:19:54
And it was not a surprise to me after watching that opening in



Speaker:
00:19:57
the morning that when you got into the other stuff that they had no



Speaker:
00:20:01
problem having these conversations,



Speaker:
00:20:03
That's cool.



Speaker:
00:20:04
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:20:04
That's just those open, like you said, vulnerable conversations



Speaker:
00:20:08
that welcomes feedback and open questions, you know, and it's not



Speaker:
00:20:12
like it's one, one sided either.



Speaker:
00:20:14
Those are the two ways.



Speaker:
00:20:15
The Joe Hari window is this concept.



Speaker:
00:20:17
Those are the two ways you can.



Speaker:
00:20:19
Create more vulnerability, right?



Speaker:
00:20:20
Is is to be accepting of feedback and showing that like, give me the



Speaker:
00:20:23
feedback and it'd be sharing and more vulnerable because it's sort



Speaker:
00:20:27
of like it opens up the windows of what other people know about you and



Speaker:
00:20:31
what you sort of know about them.



Speaker:
00:20:33
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:20:33
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:20:34
Is there, um, is there a process or protocol you'd



Speaker:
00:20:37
recommend people to follow?



Speaker:
00:20:39
Like that sounds like, you know, in that team's meeting,



Speaker:
00:20:42
it was like maybe part of their weekly meeting, for instance.



Speaker:
00:20:45
I mean, yes.



Speaker:
00:20:47
And I talked about that.



Speaker:
00:20:48
You can add simple questions into check ins like again, high and low.



Speaker:
00:20:52
What was, what was the big thing from the weekend?



Speaker:
00:20:54
And the, but the key thing is that the leader always goes first and



Speaker:
00:20:58
whatever the leader says, we'll set the tone for the whole meeting.



Speaker:
00:21:01
I was with a facilitator years ago who showed us this.



Speaker:
00:21:04
He took six people in our group and he went, I'm going to watch



Speaker:
00:21:06
my, I'm going to do an exercise.



Speaker:
00:21:07
And he said, all right, we're all going to do something.



Speaker:
00:21:09
We don't know about each other.



Speaker:
00:21:10
And he's like, I was a fiddle player growing up and everyone went around.



Speaker:
00:21:14
And the second time he was like, My ex, my stepdad was a raging



Speaker:
00:21:18
alcoholic and I spent most of my childhood at night trying to



Speaker:
00:21:22
figure out who he was going to hit and who I had to distract.



Speaker:
00:21:24
And you know, otherwise, and then everyone, he didn't, then



Speaker:
00:21:28
everyone went around again, like totally different level of stories.



Speaker:
00:21:32
Right.



Speaker:
00:21:32
So, you know, we've, we've done that even in a quarterly meeting,



Speaker:
00:21:35
we were like, what's something that like, You would like a mulligan



Speaker:
00:21:40
on which is a golf term for do over, you know, from last quarter.



Speaker:
00:21:44
And if a leader steps in there, it's like, man, I just blew the



Speaker:
00:21:46
call with this partner because I was unprepared and I rushed into



Speaker:
00:21:51
it and retrospect like that is like so empowering for than other



Speaker:
00:21:55
people to Share similar stories.



Speaker:
00:21:57
So it's just these little, look, you can do offsite



Speaker:
00:22:00
stuff and trust building.



Speaker:
00:22:01
Maybe you can introduce these little personal segments into



Speaker:
00:22:05
your regular calls and meetings.



Speaker:
00:22:07
That's, that's, that's one way to do that.



Speaker:
00:22:09
I'm just thinking of like how that that changes everything, just all



Speaker:
00:22:13
communication, even not just within, you know, the leaders there, but



Speaker:
00:22:16
within the community are the team



Speaker:
00:22:18
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:22:19
I mean, you know, that that just fosters just a sense of



Speaker:
00:22:23
trust with everyone, you know,



Speaker:
00:22:25
I, I don't, I don't love using examples of myself, but I was



Speaker:
00:22:28
doing this core value discovery.



Speaker:
00:22:30
and look, I, I'm the founder of the company.



Speaker:
00:22:32
I'm not as involved anymore, but I do a lot of our leadership training.



Speaker:
00:22:35
So these are a lot of our new up and coming employees.



Speaker:
00:22:37
They haven't met me before in like.



Speaker:
00:22:39
I understand, like I think I'm a kind of a normal, approachable



Speaker:
00:22:41
person, but it's intimidating.



Speaker:
00:22:42
It's like the founder of the company and whatever.



Speaker:
00:22:44
And when, when I do this session and I'm talking about, look, when we're



Speaker:
00:22:47
doing this core value stuff, you've gotta think about your childhood and



Speaker:
00:22:51
things that were formative for you.



Speaker:
00:22:52
They, because in 99% of cases, like it, it, it's



Speaker:
00:22:56
why this is a value for you.



Speaker:
00:22:58
And I'm like, here's my deal.



Speaker:
00:23:00
Like I was a.



Speaker:
00:23:01
Huge underachiever.



Speaker:
00:23:02
It was super embarrassing for me.



Speaker:
00:23:04
So I solved that by being an overachiever.



Speaker:
00:23:06
It created these other sets of problems.



Speaker:
00:23:08
And this is kind of why, you know, this is important



Speaker:
00:23:11
to me in these values.



Speaker:
00:23:12
And I think, like, I mean, I've told that so many times,



Speaker:
00:23:15
like, I don't even I don't even tell you to people.



Speaker:
00:23:18
I don't know.



Speaker:
00:23:18
At this point, I think it's pretty surprising for people.



Speaker:
00:23:21
And then the stuff that they shared was was I actually could



Speaker:
00:23:24
really help like two people shared stories about pretty formative



Speaker:
00:23:29
childhood experience that were definitive to their values and



Speaker:
00:23:33
showed up in their leadership.



Speaker:
00:23:34
Like you just can't have that kind of experience.



Speaker:
00:23:36
And I, I was able to show them how it helped.



Speaker:
00:23:39
It how it influenced their leadership style and, and why



Speaker:
00:23:43
it wasn't a good or a bad, but like they had to understand that



Speaker:
00:23:47
because it was really gonna, and, and that was helpful for them.



Speaker:
00:23:50
But had I not set the table for that, they probably



Speaker:
00:23:54
wouldn't have shared that and I couldn't have helped them.



Speaker:
00:23:56
And so that's sort of how it, how it works.



Speaker:
00:23:59
I wasn't looking to use it against them.



Speaker:
00:24:01
I was looking to.



Speaker:
00:24:02
To help them, you know, with it.



Speaker:
00:24:04
Uh huh.



Speaker:
00:24:04
Well, especially if, well, for one with your company, if you're not



Speaker:
00:24:07
the one leading the day to day, you want to have other leaders or



Speaker:
00:24:10
at least people that are conveying that sense of, uh, you know,



Speaker:
00:24:14
culture, trust, communication that you're after anyway,



Speaker:
00:24:18
Yeah, exactly.



Speaker:
00:24:19
and.



Speaker:
00:24:19
you mentioned the whole good values.



Speaker:
00:24:20
Like I know you're, you're working on a whole, another book and you



Speaker:
00:24:23
have multiple books out there.



Speaker:
00:24:24
So definitely go,



Speaker:
00:24:25
go



Speaker:
00:24:25
I love, what I lack in quality, I make up in quantity, so that's fine.



Speaker:
00:24:29
It's okay.



Speaker:
00:24:30
You're getting it done.



Speaker:
00:24:31
So like personal goals, core values, uh, not personal goals, but personal



Speaker:
00:24:36
core values make up, like you just said, leadership, potential, or,



Speaker:
00:24:40
or at least qualities and ways that people interact with each other.



Speaker:
00:24:44
Um, I guess help me define that, like the concept around that.



Speaker:
00:24:48
And cause this definitely relates to what we've been



Speaker:
00:24:50
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:24:50
A lot of people are like, look, I have values, but



Speaker:
00:24:52
they can't name them.



Speaker:
00:24:53
Right.



Speaker:
00:24:53
And so if you can't name them, you probably know when they're



Speaker:
00:24:56
broken, you know, when you're in flow, you, you can feel them my,



Speaker:
00:25:00
my, the way I say is like, look, if I took a really nice sports



Speaker:
00:25:03
car and I drove it through a tunnel and the tunnel had walls



Speaker:
00:25:08
and a yellow line, I turn off.



Speaker:
00:25:11
The yellow line is your, is your values.



Speaker:
00:25:13
So you're going to, the car is going to drift past the yellow line.



Speaker:
00:25:15
It's going to hit the wall.



Speaker:
00:25:16
You're going to go, Oh, you know, bad.



Speaker:
00:25:18
We're going to go to the middle.



Speaker:
00:25:19
I'm going to hit the other wall.



Speaker:
00:25:21
I'm probably going to get out the other side, but that car is going



Speaker:
00:25:23
to be like banged up as hell.



Speaker:
00:25:24
Right?



Speaker:
00:25:25
If you turn on the lights and I see where the yellow



Speaker:
00:25:27
lines are, like I stay.



Speaker:
00:25:29
In the right lane.



Speaker:
00:25:30
And so to me, like personal core values are just the fundamental



Speaker:
00:25:33
best decision making tool that you have in your life.



Speaker:
00:25:36
And I talk about the big three of your vocation, your



Speaker:
00:25:40
community and your relationship.



Speaker:
00:25:41
And if you don't make those decisions in a way that's aligned



Speaker:
00:25:43
with your values, they have a very low chance of working out.



Speaker:
00:25:47
So when we're when we're trying to sort of do leadership development,



Speaker:
00:25:52
one of my things like, Look, you got to understand this was



Speaker:
00:25:54
this was the unlock for me.



Speaker:
00:25:56
Um, That you are going to be the best leader if you are authentic



Speaker:
00:25:59
and you got to understand yourself and you got to understand the



Speaker:
00:26:02
strengths and weaknesses that you bring to the table and, and



Speaker:
00:26:05
you're not changing, but there's a lot of baggage there and I'm,



Speaker:
00:26:07
and I can't give you the number of examples like of someone like



Speaker:
00:26:10
there are leaders for whom trust is paramount and like their core value



Speaker:
00:26:14
is relationships based on trust.



Speaker:
00:26:17
If I look at those people and I say, let me ask you, and I,



Speaker:
00:26:20
when I, once we do the work and we figure out that their value



Speaker:
00:26:22
or their why is trust, does that Your focus on trust come from



Speaker:
00:26:26
a violation of trust somewhere in your life in your childhood



Speaker:
00:26:29
and they don't have to answer.



Speaker:
00:26:30
I don't say I won't ask you what it is.



Speaker:
00:26:32
And normally the tear that's rolling out of the eye or the, you know,



Speaker:
00:26:37
facial like tells me that there is some deep pain and they're



Speaker:
00:26:40
not going to change that, right?



Speaker:
00:26:41
Because over years they've had a small group of friends.



Speaker:
00:26:44
It's hard to get in the circle or otherwise.



Speaker:
00:26:45
So that it can work for you as a leader.



Speaker:
00:26:48
If you say, Hey, trust is really important to me on my team.



Speaker:
00:26:52
Um, you know, if you miss meetings, if you show up late,



Speaker:
00:26:54
if I can't find you, these are all things that lose trust.



Speaker:
00:26:57
The promise for that leader, when that trust happens or those



Speaker:
00:27:01
things that it's triggering like that nuclear, like trust is kind



Speaker:
00:27:05
of a life and death thing because the last thing that happened is.



Speaker:
00:27:08
My dad left or whatever, whatever it was that sort of did that.



Speaker:
00:27:11
So it can be a pro, it can be a con.



Speaker:
00:27:13
It all depends on if you know it.



Speaker:
00:27:15
What, what, what's fascinating is these trust leaders that



Speaker:
00:27:18
we've had a few of them over time, they were basically like



Speaker:
00:27:21
half their team was in jail.



Speaker:
00:27:22
The key was thrown out.



Speaker:
00:27:24
Like they had no idea, like, but when you really act, they're



Speaker:
00:27:26
like, yeah, like, and you can hear it from the HR department.



Speaker:
00:27:29
They were like, this person's always just so hot or cold on people.



Speaker:
00:27:33
And they're like, Irredeemable or they love them too much and



Speaker:
00:27:36
like that's the problem like it can really work for them But to



Speaker:
00:27:41
work for them they have to know it and they have to articulate it So



Speaker:
00:27:44
their team's like look if I can't find you if you're late for things



Speaker:
00:27:47
or whatever Like that is kind of irrecoverable for me as a leader So



Speaker:
00:27:51
I'm just telling you that up front so that we know how to work together



Speaker:
00:27:54
Ooh, that's huge, man.



Speaker:
00:27:56
I can't even, I doubt most people are approaching things that way with



Speaker:
00:28:01
No, no, this is this is Look, this is seriously deep work.



Speaker:
00:28:04
It is the most impactful thing I've ever did.



Speaker:
00:28:06
I love doing it with people and leaders because I think when they



Speaker:
00:28:10
get it, they tend to have this like Just like explosion of, they start



Speaker:
00:28:15
looking back at their whole life and suddenly everything makes sense.



Speaker:
00:28:19
Why I hated that job, why that relationship didn't work out.



Speaker:
00:28:22
Like, like again, they were, they were that car



Speaker:
00:28:25
that was hitting the wall.



Speaker:
00:28:27
You know, the feeling of driving in the lane, but when you have



Speaker:
00:28:30
these four things in front of you that says like, You know,



Speaker:
00:28:33
respect and authenticity are incredibly important to me.



Speaker:
00:28:36
Long term orientation, like making things better.



Speaker:
00:28:40
Like you're able to look and be like, you know what?



Speaker:
00:28:42
They're asking me to do a job where it's a short term job.



Speaker:
00:28:45
I'm not going to be able to make anything better.



Speaker:
00:28:47
It's transactional, not relational.



Speaker:
00:28:49
Like this is going to suck for me.



Speaker:
00:28:50
Like, like this is not,



Speaker:
00:28:52
this is not going to work for me.



Speaker:
00:28:54
In fact, when I have people do that backwards looking lens



Speaker:
00:28:56
afterwards and like, what's the worst job, worst boss, they're able



Speaker:
00:29:00
to almost look and be like, look, this was, This was everything I



Speaker:
00:29:03
hate at my, you know, at my core.



Speaker:
00:29:06
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:29:06
Wow.



Speaker:
00:29:07
And yeah, looking back, I mean, I, I'm just assuming



Speaker:
00:29:09
that's probably the



Speaker:
00:29:10
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:29:10
You start having all these like firework thing goes off.



Speaker:
00:29:13
Cause it's like, you get the stencil and then you start



Speaker:
00:29:16
taking the stencil back to high school and whatever.



Speaker:
00:29:19
And this, and you're like,



Speaker:
00:29:20
They look eerily similar.



Speaker:
00:29:21
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:29:22
Like the pattern is really clear.



Speaker:
00:29:24
Like, you know, like.



Speaker:
00:29:26
Given autonomy, like it was great and, and, and, you know, we did



Speaker:
00:29:30
this work for someone and, and they, they came back to me with their list



Speaker:
00:29:33
and they're like, you know, I just exited like a long term relationship



Speaker:
00:29:36
and looking at, I didn't know why, but in looking at this list, it's



Speaker:
00:29:40
really clear to me now, right?



Speaker:
00:29:42
Maybe that would have happened for them three to six months earlier.



Speaker:
00:29:45
Like whatever it was, that person couldn't give them like



Speaker:
00:29:48
the thing that was basically most important to them.



Speaker:
00:29:50
You can be that my wife and I are not the same person.



Speaker:
00:29:53
We don't, we do things differently.



Speaker:
00:29:55
We have different activities.



Speaker:
00:29:57
You can be, you can be different, but if you think about a



Speaker:
00:30:00
relationship or a special report, you have to be aligned on the



Speaker:
00:30:03
big things like when it comes to our family and our kids



Speaker:
00:30:06
and the important to see, like we're always philosophically.



Speaker:
00:30:10
On the same page.



Speaker:
00:30:11
That doesn't mean like, you know, she likes tennis.



Speaker:
00:30:14
I liked it.



Speaker:
00:30:15
Like, like the, the, that stuff's not values oriented.



Speaker:
00:30:18
That's sort of hobbies and activities and that sort of stuff.



Speaker:
00:30:21
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:30:22
Well, so, so the values, like some, it's interesting, you



Speaker:
00:30:25
have relationships, you know, a lot of people, if you have



Speaker:
00:30:28
partners in a relation are in your business, that is, it's kind



Speaker:
00:30:32
of, it's a similar kind of thing.



Speaker:
00:30:34
I've had partners over the years on a whole bunch of companies.



Speaker:
00:30:37
Each of your personal values needs to somehow dot with the company's



Speaker:
00:30:40
values in order for it to work.



Speaker:
00:30:42
Bingo.



Speaker:
00:30:42
Yeah, there needs to be an overlap there.



Speaker:
00:30:44
So, yeah, I'm thinking of, uh, like a practice.



Speaker:
00:30:47
So to identify, let's say the person listening, watching is like, okay,



Speaker:
00:30:52
well, I got to get clear of my values first before I start to, you



Speaker:
00:30:56
know, ask other people of theirs.



Speaker:
00:30:57
So I'm not just thinking, oh, I'm going to adopt up some of that.



Speaker:
00:31:00
Um, yeah, for me, I've done the Jordan.



Speaker:
00:31:03
Dr Jordan Peterson has this whole self, um, oh, my gosh, the, the



Speaker:
00:31:08
self authoring program it's called.



Speaker:
00:31:10
So you go.



Speaker:
00:31:11
Back in the past and the new present and then the future, but you know,



Speaker:
00:31:14
you start in the past and that unlocked so much for me where you



Speaker:
00:31:18
go to the root of things and you



Speaker:
00:31:20
yeah, it's probably a lot of what the process that I use.



Speaker:
00:31:25
And look, I actually had to figure this out on myself for years.



Speaker:
00:31:28
And then I built a process with our team.



Speaker:
00:31:30
And then people would always ask me after my book elevate.



Speaker:
00:31:33
How do I do this?



Speaker:
00:31:34
I was like, it's not like a quick thing.



Speaker:
00:31:36
So I ended up I've developed a course, um, like over



Speaker:
00:31:39
2000 people have taken it.



Speaker:
00:31:40
It's kind of an hour.



Speaker:
00:31:41
It will really kind of give it to you, but the behavioral based



Speaker:
00:31:43
questions are designed to, uh, elicit all those historical



Speaker:
00:31:48
examples because they, they, they really do tell the story and then.



Speaker:
00:31:53
You might look at all those examples, figure out the value,



Speaker:
00:31:55
and then if you really go back, like for most of these things



Speaker:
00:31:58
they connect to, I find that most people are going back to



Speaker:
00:32:02
something in childhood and they are doubling down on something that



Speaker:
00:32:05
was very important to them, maybe overdoing it, or they are running



Speaker:
00:32:08
180 degrees away from something they, they hated or despised,



Speaker:
00:32:13
Wow.



Speaker:
00:32:13
That's all.



Speaker:
00:32:14
And yeah, it's getting to the root.



Speaker:
00:32:16
It's typically, yeah.



Speaker:
00:32:17
It's like one or a couple things, at least I've found.



Speaker:
00:32:19
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:32:20
From childhood.



Speaker:
00:32:21
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:32:21
Six years old right around.



Speaker:
00:32:23
it's not a victim.



Speaker:
00:32:25
Look, look, here's a great example.



Speaker:
00:32:26
Let's let the example of, and I use this in my book, let,



Speaker:
00:32:30
let's say that you grew up with a single parent, right?



Speaker:
00:32:34
And let's say the parent died.



Speaker:
00:32:36
The other parent died.



Speaker:
00:32:36
You grew up a single parent, this parent worked three jobs,



Speaker:
00:32:39
you know, and got this kid into college or into Harvard.



Speaker:
00:32:43
And they went on, you know, and, and having an incredible career.



Speaker:
00:32:46
Career and then they decided to develop an afterschool.



Speaker:
00:32:50
The biggest global afterschool program for kids



Speaker:
00:32:53
of single parents, right?



Speaker:
00:32:55
Why?



Speaker:
00:32:55
Because they were really lonely.



Speaker:
00:32:57
As a kid, they're not blaming the right.



Speaker:
00:33:00
This parent like did everything they could.



Speaker:
00:33:03
I think people have to look.



Speaker:
00:33:04
I'm looking for, you know, psychologists.



Speaker:
00:33:06
It's not about blame.



Speaker:
00:33:07
It's about understanding.



Speaker:
00:33:08
And we're all like, so you were lonely as a kid.



Speaker:
00:33:11
That was your lived experience.



Speaker:
00:33:13
You was doing because your parents was working three jobs



Speaker:
00:33:15
to put food on the table and get you in an Ivy League school



Speaker:
00:33:18
and put you into this position.



Speaker:
00:33:19
It doesn't change the truth for you.



Speaker:
00:33:21
And it doesn't change that.



Speaker:
00:33:22
That became, uh, The real motivation to build this program



Speaker:
00:33:25
and do a lot of good, right?



Speaker:
00:33:26
It's not like we're not looking for, like, who can we blame?



Speaker:
00:33:29
But we're looking to just understand why that person double clicks



Speaker:
00:33:33
on loneliness, you know, more than more than someone else,



Speaker:
00:33:36
you know thyself, you know, at least you don't have to



Speaker:
00:33:38
dwell on all that stuff.



Speaker:
00:33:40
Just know it, understand it.



Speaker:
00:33:41
Cool,



Speaker:
00:33:42
Understand, understand.



Speaker:
00:33:43
You probably work better in teams.



Speaker:
00:33:44
You don't want to work alone, right?



Speaker:
00:33:46
Like, like these are all, this is how it all shows up as a



Speaker:
00:33:50
40 year old leading a team of people in the workplace.



Speaker:
00:33:52
Absolutely.



Speaker:
00:33:53
It's never too late.



Speaker:
00:33:54
So yeah, I can't get that work done.



Speaker:
00:33:56
Well, I'm thinking now, uh, Robert with like technology, AI and remote



Speaker:
00:34:02
work, like, are there any trends or maybe other best practices we



Speaker:
00:34:06
should think about with, you know, I mean, with AI and technology,



Speaker:
00:34:10
there's a lot of fear people have sometimes like, am I being replaced?



Speaker:
00:34:13
How do I learn this?



Speaker:
00:34:15
I can't keep up with



Speaker:
00:34:16
yeah,



Speaker:
00:34:16
Talk about that.



Speaker:
00:34:17
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:34:17
What are your thoughts there?



Speaker:
00:34:19
my, my rule on any new thing is to not be a minimalist and



Speaker:
00:34:22
not be a maximalist, right?



Speaker:
00:34:24
So I understand chat GBT.



Speaker:
00:34:27
I use it every day.



Speaker:
00:34:28
I figured out how to make it more productive.



Speaker:
00:34:30
You know, all, all of this stuff.



Speaker:
00:34:31
Uh, I am, I am not.



Speaker:
00:34:33
And then there's a whole other camp, like, you know, everything's



Speaker:
00:34:36
going to be AI or like they set up a thing where this chat bot texts



Speaker:
00:34:40
his girlfriend in the morning and that their chat bot texts you back.



Speaker:
00:34:43
And I'm like, I don't want to live like that.



Speaker:
00:34:44
Like that's not.



Speaker:
00:34:46
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:34:47
So I want, I actually want to, I think that with all the AI, there



Speaker:
00:34:50
will actually be a huge interest in real experiences, or if it's



Speaker:
00:34:54
doing all your work, then like probably you want to invest in



Speaker:
00:34:56
campgrounds and travel things and the things that like where humans



Speaker:
00:35:00
are going to need to connect.



Speaker:
00:35:01
So I think it's important to understand these trends and, and



Speaker:
00:35:05
look, you can't afford to not.



Speaker:
00:35:07
Try chat dbt or understand what it could do.



Speaker:
00:35:10
Or if you're doing any sort of work, like it's my personal



Speaker:
00:35:13
assistant, like that I'm working with all the time.



Speaker:
00:35:16
Like, I don't, I, one of my, one of my weaknesses is



Speaker:
00:35:19
like, I can write very fast.



Speaker:
00:35:20
I'm a very slow editor and I miss spelling mistakes and stuff.



Speaker:
00:35:24
Well, boom, make sure there's no spelling problems in this right now.



Speaker:
00:35:27
You should, I have no reason to ever send an email again that



Speaker:
00:35:29
has a spelling mistake in it.



Speaker:
00:35:31
So if I didn't even play around with that, then I'd be



Speaker:
00:35:33
missing out on the innovation.



Speaker:
00:35:35
I think the everything's going to be this and go all



Speaker:
00:35:38
in with my stock portfolio.



Speaker:
00:35:40
Like, like that's, that's how bubbles get born.



Speaker:
00:35:42
And we know it tends to go to absolute fever pitch, blow up.



Speaker:
00:35:47
And then the, the, the storm more dominant,



Speaker:
00:35:51
permanent use cases come up.



Speaker:
00:35:52
Kind of like we saw with the internet stuff.



Speaker:
00:35:54
Kind of trajectory.



Speaker:
00:35:55
But remember, if it was two years ago, you were being



Speaker:
00:35:57
told if you didn't pivot your business, the blockchain, you



Speaker:
00:36:00
were going to be dead, right?



Speaker:
00:36:01
So like that fervor was almost as bad.



Speaker:
00:36:04
I mean, Long Island blockchain, the ice tea company that



Speaker:
00:36:06
renamed itself blockchain, like



Speaker:
00:36:08
Oh,



Speaker:
00:36:09
when these manias happen, it's very hard to sort out the, the sort of



Speaker:
00:36:13
reality from the, the, the bubble.



Speaker:
00:36:16
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:36:16
And I think, you know, as it pertains to teams communication,



Speaker:
00:36:19
what we're talking about here is to have open communications



Speaker:
00:36:23
about technology and how it plays a role in our day to day.



Speaker:
00:36:27
Yeah, my kids, I'm like, look, like you do not use



Speaker:
00:36:30
it to write your papers.



Speaker:
00:36:31
Don't cheat.



Speaker:
00:36:31
Don't get through it.



Speaker:
00:36:32
But, but I've, I've shown them, you can put your paper into



Speaker:
00:36:35
it and say, I'm an 11th grader and this is the assignment.



Speaker:
00:36:38
Tell me what grade you would give me and give me critical feedback.



Speaker:
00:36:40
Oh, that's cool.



Speaker:
00:36:41
That's like, so you get like a free teacher review on it.



Speaker:
00:36:44
Like, to me, that's a great way to use it and then go do the work.



Speaker:
00:36:48
Yep.



Speaker:
00:36:48
I, or ask it questions and, and help her find, you know, ask better



Speaker:
00:36:52
It can develop a study guide based on every I'm taking AP, whatever.



Speaker:
00:36:56
Here are the questions.



Speaker:
00:36:57
Like, give me a study guide, make note card.



Speaker:
00:36:59
Like, like if you're not playing with that, you're really missing



Speaker:
00:37:01
out on some, some opportunities there to save some time.



Speaker:
00:37:06
Like, but also on the flip side, look.



Speaker:
00:37:09
If we remove struggle, if we remove difficulty, like we will



Speaker:
00:37:12
have all kinds of other problems.



Speaker:
00:37:14
Like I, I'm far enough in my career.



Speaker:
00:37:16
I don't want to do some of the crap work now.



Speaker:
00:37:19
Like, but if you never have to do anything hard, that's going to have



Speaker:
00:37:22
a whole bunch of other implications.



Speaker:
00:37:25
It'll just introduce other hard things that will just



Speaker:
00:37:27
show up in your lap if



Speaker:
00:37:28
Right.



Speaker:
00:37:28
Hard things will come.



Speaker:
00:37:29
You just won't know how to deal with them.



Speaker:
00:37:31
I love the quote where we are, we are preparing



Speaker:
00:37:33
kids for the path rather.



Speaker:
00:37:35
No, we are preparing the path for the kids rather than we're



Speaker:
00:37:37
preparing kids for the path.



Speaker:
00:37:38
Like that is the problem with parenting these



Speaker:
00:37:40
That ain't gonna work out.



Speaker:
00:37:41
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:37:42
Well, Robert, like what's cause you've, you've grown.



Speaker:
00:37:45
So, you know, uh, large, uh, partnership company, what



Speaker:
00:37:48
acceleration partners, you, you, you write a newsletter every



Speaker:
00:37:52
single week, you know, it goes out to hundreds of thousands



Speaker:
00:37:54
of people podcast, like what's, um, and you know, we'll link all



Speaker:
00:37:58
that stuff in the show notes.



Speaker:
00:38:00
And, and of course you have another book coming out.



Speaker:
00:38:03
You're a machine, man.



Speaker:
00:38:04
And like, was there a tipping point?



Speaker:
00:38:07
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:38:07
Or something that got you to think like that, like, you



Speaker:
00:38:11
know, at the core values with,



Speaker:
00:38:13
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:38:13
So, so a hundred percent.



Speaker:
00:38:15
So it's actually 2013.



Speaker:
00:38:17
So I, as I've been doing speaking over the last five or 10 years,



Speaker:
00:38:20
it was about three years ago and someone was reading my bio for the



Speaker:
00:38:24
speaking and I had this revelation.



Speaker:
00:38:26
I was like, Every single thing they just listed.



Speaker:
00:38:29
In this book was after 2013 and for 2013 for me was when I



Speaker:
00:38:33
went to this leadership offsite with, with EO and it was this



Speaker:
00:38:38
sort of core value thing.



Speaker:
00:38:39
It was that I thought we were going to learn how to be better



Speaker:
00:38:40
leaders like tools and trick.



Speaker:
00:38:42
And it was like the first two days were a big mirror,



Speaker:
00:38:45
which were like, who are you?



Speaker:
00:38:47
What do you want?



Speaker:
00:38:47
What do you value?



Speaker:
00:38:48
Figure that out first and then we can talk about what kind



Speaker:
00:38:51
of leader you're going to be.



Speaker:
00:38:52
And so it was the six months after that, that I figured out my values.



Speaker:
00:38:55
The practical implication of that was I went and



Speaker:
00:38:57
changed my company's values.



Speaker:
00:38:58
I said, I'm going to double down on these things.



Speaker:
00:39:00
I made a list of things I'm going to quit because it was really clear.



Speaker:
00:39:04
I switched boards, I dumped relationships.



Speaker:
00:39:07
So for me, it was like, that was sort of the pivotal



Speaker:
00:39:10
moment of figuring out.



Speaker:
00:39:11
How to reallocate my time, even as a parent, you know,



Speaker:
00:39:14
one of the things like, look, I, I struggled in school.



Speaker:
00:39:17
I was 80 decade creative.



Speaker:
00:39:19
I would go to these parent nights and like, like, I



Speaker:
00:39:22
just, it's just torture.



Speaker:
00:39:24
Like, it's like, I can't, I'm not paying attention what they said.



Speaker:
00:39:27
I'm daydreaming.



Speaker:
00:39:27
It's like back in school.



Speaker:
00:39:28
I'm like, this doesn't make me a better parent.



Speaker:
00:39:30
Like, I like doing challenging.



Speaker:
00:39:32
I taking my kids to the rope course like that's in service of my core



Speaker:
00:39:36
values, going and sitting and And like mindlessly through this two and



Speaker:
00:39:40
a half hours, I just like stopped going to back to school night.



Speaker:
00:39:42
Like I was like, this isn't my contribution.



Speaker:
00:39:44
I'd rather like take my kid and go do a lesson with them or,



Speaker:
00:39:48
or, or do something like that.



Speaker:
00:39:49
So there were small things and they were big things, but that was



Speaker:
00:39:51
100 percent when I changed this, I said, that was sort of the cooking



Speaker:
00:39:55
with gas moment, I think for me,



Speaker:
00:39:57
Yeah, that's cool, man.



Speaker:
00:39:59
And you're noticing in times in the day to day, you know,



Speaker:
00:40:02
and, and I think with that mirror, it needs to, it's going



Speaker:
00:40:05
to shine on you at some time.



Speaker:
00:40:07
And if you choose to have it shine, you know, I mean, you



Speaker:
00:40:10
probably didn't know it was coming in that leadership training,



Speaker:
00:40:12
but, um, you know, we all have the ability to at least shine



Speaker:
00:40:16
harder than I thought it was going to be.



Speaker:
00:40:17
No kidding.



Speaker:
00:40:18
Well, um, is there, is there a best next step that you would



Speaker:
00:40:22
recommend folks to take after this?



Speaker:
00:40:24
I mean, we talked about the, the two week, um, you know,



Speaker:
00:40:27
uh, the whole gap there, but also the value side of things.



Speaker:
00:40:31
I think there's some



Speaker:
00:40:33
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:40:33
Look, if you go to, if you go to robertglaser.



Speaker:
00:40:35
com, so the Friday forward newsletter on sub stack is on there.



Speaker:
00:40:39
You can see the courses, my books.



Speaker:
00:40:40
If you, if you go to the Friday forward, a sub stack, you can



Speaker:
00:40:43
actually get the first three chapters of the book for free.



Speaker:
00:40:46
So you can read almost half the book and you're like, I'm in on this.



Speaker:
00:40:48
And I think I don't know.



Speaker:
00:40:50
It's like a 3 investment after that or something of the ebook



Speaker:
00:40:52
if it's if it's valuable.



Speaker:
00:40:54
So you can check out the newsletter and the courses on there.



Speaker:
00:40:57
Um, and I just think anyone who does that, who goes through the



Speaker:
00:41:00
12 weeks of the exercises that come on the email and doesn't



Speaker:
00:41:03
have some fundamental clarity that they can make sense on



Speaker:
00:41:07
their life, like call me like



Speaker:
00:41:09
Yeah,



Speaker:
00:41:11
it right.



Speaker:
00:41:12
Like I said, about 2000 people have done that.



Speaker:
00:41:14
It's just, there's no other scalable way than to do that work.



Speaker:
00:41:17
And it's not, it's not rocket science.



Speaker:
00:41:19
It's like other things.



Speaker:
00:41:20
It's going to ask you a bunch of these questions.



Speaker:
00:41:22
It's going to help you synthesize the answers and



Speaker:
00:41:24
pull the trends out of them.



Speaker:
00:41:26
man.



Speaker:
00:41:26
Cool, man.



Speaker:
00:41:27
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:41:28
And I love sub stack too.



Speaker:
00:41:29
So just in



Speaker:
00:41:30
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:41:30
Substack seems to be like tipping.



Speaker:
00:41:32
Like it just seems like every everyone's moving.



Speaker:
00:41:35
I getting a lot of moving signs.



Speaker:
00:41:36
Like I'm moving to substack, you know, from wherever



Speaker:
00:41:38
A lot of movies.



Speaker:
00:41:39
Well, put good thoughts out there, man.



Speaker:
00:41:41
You know, it's like blogs were the thing back in the day.



Speaker:
00:41:43
Now I feel like some stacks are, you know, trending up.



Speaker:
00:41:46
But Robert, I appreciate you, your thoughts.



Speaker:
00:41:49
And I know you've done the work.



Speaker:
00:41:51
You've thought deeply in all this stuff.



Speaker:
00:41:52
So it shows.



Speaker:
00:41:53
And, um, so thank you for your time.



Speaker:
00:41:55
This



Speaker:
00:41:55
Thanks for having me, Joe.