Deep Drive into Remaining Human by Bart Paden

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Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm
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Josh Negron, and this show's all about sharing
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lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your
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thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you
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to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in.
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Welcome back to the show. Today, I'd like to
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talk about a friend's book that I read, Remaining
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Human by Bart Payden. It is a book that talks
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about leadership, AI, and remaining human in
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not just today's highly digital age. but in this
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new changing landscape that can really affect
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not just our leadership, but our relationships
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in general. Now, I believe that AI is a tool,
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and like most tools, they're not inherently good
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or bad. They just magnify what's already there,
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like so many different tools do. So AI is going
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to act like a mirror and is going to be capable
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of magnifying and highlighting things that you
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want it to, and conversely, things you... do
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not want it to. So we're going to cover things
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like how AI can provide a very strong illusion
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of efficiency, which for any business owner or
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entrepreneur is so valuable, but might also entail
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a dangerous trap. We're going to discuss the
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limitations of context and how we've all realized
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AI's shortcomings when it doesn't know enough
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about situations. Then we'll discuss what I call
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the universal temptation of really any leader
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and how AI AI can pull on those threads to make
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them even worse. the ever -growing echo chamber
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that AI can magnify, how this isn't just a CEO
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problem, it's an every person problem, the value
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that curiosity holds over judgment, and finally,
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some practical steps that you can take with you
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to use AI more effectively, whether that be in
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leadership, running your business, or just in
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your everyday life. Now, I've known Bart for
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many years in this area, and we started to get
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to know each other over the last seven to eight
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years as... I attended a CrossFit gym that he
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owned. We started being in the same rooms together
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over time and realized that we're passionate
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about a lot of the same things. And so that just
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led to more and more discussions about leadership.
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I got to know his heart for people that he learned
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through great successes and also gut -wrenching
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pain. And now he's in a season where he is doing
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some great writing and some awesome work and
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investing in others and helping them learn the
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lessons that he learned through the highs and
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lows of business. that I believe has a growing
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impact in today's world. He's got an awesome
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goal of wanting to accumulate the largest collection
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of servant leadership writings by 2027. So how
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exciting is that? And so I was definitely pumped
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to read his book, Remaining Human, which is a
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book about how AI fits into leadership and some
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of the warnings that I hadn't fully considered
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that were very thought -provoking for me. So
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one of the biggest ideas that Bart launches into
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in this book is... AI's ability to increase efficiency,
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or at least the illusion of efficiency. You see,
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data is so valuable in making decisions in any
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business. And quite frankly, data seems very
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agnostic, as in it's objective, whereas feelings,
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thoughts, perceptions are much more risky and
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fluid. And so as a result, even before the age
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of AI, leaders found a lot of peace in making
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decisions through data. There's nothing inherently
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wrong with that. But where things fall short
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for leaders is when they start making decisions
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based on data without any additional context,
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reflections with others to ensure they're thinking
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about things in the right way and their perceptions
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are not misguided, and creating room for curiosity,
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questions, and understanding before making swift
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decisions around data. Now, AI is amazing because
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it can look at growing amounts of data that no
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human could really efficiently sift through,
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and because of its ability to analyze, organize,
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and synthesize data, It becomes really intoxicating
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when it flags certain things, organizes it in
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certain ways, that makes decision -making so
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much easier and faster. And who doesn't value
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efficiency and decision -making that's swift
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and easy when AI seems to draw conclusions for
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you? And if you ever used AI to do a multi -step
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process, you may have been frustrated with its
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tendency to go too far. When you're like, hey,
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I'd like to start brainstorming about something.
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When you're in like the wonder stage of brainstorming
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something, and it ends up in just a few back
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and forth prompts. ends up wanting to go all
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the way to application right away before you've
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even fully fleshed out an idea. It seems to like
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rush to the end. And the same thing is going
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to be true when you're analyzing large amounts
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of data. It could be aligned to some conclusions
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very, very quickly that if you don't have your
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own stopgaps in place, could cause some decisions
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that might be disruptive if you don't fully consider
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or take some steps to pause through it. Now,
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like I said previously, metrics have always done
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this and created this opportunity and temptation
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to make decisions before asking great questions,
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being curious, filling in context, and testing
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your perceptions. But now AI is accelerating
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that timeline, shortening that gap. between analysis
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and decisions, which feels really good, but can
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sometimes be very dangerous. I've got a dear
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friend that I respect very much that I think
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added a tremendous amount of value to his organization
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for many years. And he woke up one day to his
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company making a very bad decision out of left
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field to end his career with them, all because
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he fell below an arbitrary line that they had
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set. upper -level management that was removed
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from him personally decided to make a swift decision
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without asking additional questions, and even
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when being challenged by additional context that
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completely justified his position below that
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arbitrary line. It didn't matter, and he was
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cut. Now, I don't know if that decision was made
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with the help of AI or if it was just plain data
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-driven. If people aren't aware of this limitation,
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this will happen to more and more people, whether
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you're in the top levels of an organization all
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the way down. And Bart does a great job of talking
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to the people who make the decisions and warning
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them against what can happen. And one huge limitation
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of AI, as we all know if you've interacted with
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it for more than five minutes, is the context
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problem. The less that it knows about you, the
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more generic the information it spits out is.
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Garbage in, garbage out. But sometimes you're
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not even giving it garbage because it just doesn't
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know. And so when it knows so little about a
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situation, then what it gives you is not well
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informed. It's just like when you're asking advice
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to a friend, but you give them very little information.
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What are they supposed to tell you? It's very,
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very difficult for them to add value, even if
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they absolutely want to. AI is only as good as
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the context that it's given. And a lot of times,
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even when it's looking at all your data, you
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would think, well, it has obviously enough context.
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But there's so much context that's not just in
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the numbers. It's not going to know that Frank
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just got divorced or that Susie's husband just
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fell ill and is in the hospital. All that it's
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going to know is that maybe both of their numbers
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might be down and is likely highlighting those
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two individuals for disciplinary action or performance
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issues. The toughest part here is even when you're
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highly intentional, You don't always know what
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context to give AI in order for it to give you
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a more highly valuable response in its analysis.
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Even if you are a servant leader, you're not
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selfish and you do really care about your people.
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You still have the responsibility to be in the
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driver's seat and take careful consideration
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in the things that it pops out, in the answers
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that it gives you pertaining analysis of big
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data that you give it. Now, I think this is a
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universal temptation. Bart spends a good amount
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of time discussing how this specifically magnifies
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issues with narcissistic leaders, and I do agree.
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But I think this also can become a huge trap
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for any leader, because I think if you asked
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any person in any leadership position if they're
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interested in something that could help them
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be more efficient and more decisive, I don't
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know any of them that wouldn't be interested
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in what that looked like. They would all say
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yes. They would all be interested. And rightfully
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so. On the surface, this doesn't look like a
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character flaw. It looks like progress, which
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feels like good leadership. But I think that's
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what makes this so potentially dangerous. It
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might not feel that way because you're using
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AI to consider so much more than you would have
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probably initially considered by yourself. And
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so it feels like you've done more due diligence
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to learn and understand and look at the data
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to make decisions. And so it almost feels like
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you're absolved. We're like, yeah. I've considered
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every option. I had AI look at everything for
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me and it didn't see anything but this. And so
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obviously the right decision is insert the blank.
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And that's where the echo chamber comes in. In
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my episode with Dr. Kevin Wissman, we were talking
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about therapy and how AI is being used in that
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space. And I asked him, has he considered what
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it looks like for someone with an unhealthy brain
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in an unhealthy position mentally that is interacting
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with AI and why an AI would give someone such
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terrible advice? I think most of us have seen
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those weird headlines where a chatbot will tell
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someone, yeah, maybe it is better that you're
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not around. And I believe it is because AI can
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be a dangerous echo chamber where it reflects
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back your own biases and the things that you
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believe and magnifies those instead of challenging
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them. The way most of these language models are
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built, they are built to naturally affirm, encourage,
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and rarely push back. Just think about that for
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one second. Most mentors will tell you that you
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shouldn't surround yourself around yes -men and
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that if you do, you will likely not make the
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best choices. Well, AI can be an unfortunate
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yes -man. And even if you'd use clever prompts
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to try to get it to be more challenging, more
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direct, and stroke your ego less, it still seems
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like when you're sharing a half -baked idea,
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it thinks it's the best thing it's heard that
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day. And we've all been there. You share something
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that's not great just to kind of start developing
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it. And it responds, man, that's such a great
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idea. And you're like, man, I know this is BS.
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And sometimes there's that skepticism in your
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mind of like, is this, how much value does this
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have when it's telling me the worst idea I've
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had this week is amazing. It's certainly not
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always confidence inspiring, right? So the fact
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that we know this is true, that AI does this
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and... currently, even with great prompts, is
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going to be challenged to be a good advisor.
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It falls upon us to keep our community around
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us there to challenge our assumptions and our
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perceptions. In fact, ChatGBT this week in some
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AI news was announced to add a feature. that
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you can opt into that will alert your loved ones
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if some of your conversations with ChatGPT head
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in a potentially hazardous direction. They wouldn't
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have created this feature if AI was more objective,
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if maybe it challenged your thinking more or
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alerted you to your blind spots. So by that very
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nature, any leader or any normal person that
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stops bringing decisions to real people will
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find themselves in an endless echo chamber that
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can lead to some very bad decisions in life,
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business, and leadership. And I think what makes
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this so easy is that there's zero friction. And
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from a time perspective, it doesn't cost you
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very much time. All you do is open an app. Have
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a conversation, reinforce your thoughts or beliefs,
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and take action. Or don't take action, which
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is probably worse depending on what we're talking
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about. And human nature is to take the path of
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least resistance in so many things. And for leaders
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especially, it takes time. to be curious, to
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ask questions, to gain additional context. It
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also takes time to reflect your thoughts and
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perceptions with anybody in your circle to make
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sure you're thinking about things right, that
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you're headed in the right direction, ultimately
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that you're not mistaken. And I love something
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that Bart said in the book about this echo chamber
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situation is that it allows people to really
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shrug off additional responsibility in really
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putting the weight of any important decision
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on AI by saying, well, the data said so, or AI
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recommended it, or the system said this is the
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best decision or the best direction. Humans are
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excellent justification machines. Look at somebody
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who's made objectively terrible decisions in
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their life and watch how they talk about those
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decisions. Maybe they're the victim. Maybe they
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blame others. Nothing's their fault. The world
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is against them. or they just can't see how their
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bad decisions affected those that they care about
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most. And because human nature is that way, how
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easy is it going to be to justify the things
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that AI reinforces for you when you discuss things
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with it? So if AI is a mirror, and it magnifies
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what it already finds, That means it's going
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to magnify the good and the bad that exist. And
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what's a bummer about that is for leaders, hopefully
00:13:43.889 --> 00:13:46.590
you know what your weaknesses are because somebody
00:13:46.590 --> 00:13:49.649
close to you has expressed those to you, described
00:13:49.649 --> 00:13:52.409
what your blind spots are. And if you are aware
00:13:52.409 --> 00:13:55.490
of those, you need to know that AI is not going
00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:57.830
to help you in those areas. In fact, it will
00:13:57.830 --> 00:14:00.830
likely hurt you unless you're on guard and aware
00:14:00.830 --> 00:14:03.909
of spotting those in your conversations with
00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:06.250
it. Now, you could be saying, I'm not a C. yo,
00:14:06.289 --> 00:14:08.950
I'm not a leader, I'm not an entrepreneur, how
00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:11.750
does this even apply to me? And I would say this
00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:15.029
is not just a leadership problem, it is a human
00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:17.990
problem. And that's why the book's title is so
00:14:17.990 --> 00:14:22.929
great, Remaining Human. In this age that is digitally
00:14:22.929 --> 00:14:25.590
connected more than ever, Kevin and I discussed
00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:28.970
the loneliness epidemic. How can we be in the
00:14:28.970 --> 00:14:32.409
most connected era in history and yet have the
00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:35.600
largest epidemic of loneliness ever? That's because
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.899
people are more connected than ever, quotation
00:14:38.899 --> 00:14:42.320
marks, but true intimacy is something that is
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.220
more absent than ever. And let me ask you, do
00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:47.700
you think chatbots are overly going to help that
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:51.399
scenario or make it worse? I think the answer
00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.279
is obvious. I think most people know that social
00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.179
media connects people, but those connections
00:14:57.179 --> 00:14:59.539
aren't the same as the connection you would have
00:14:59.539 --> 00:15:02.279
sitting across from somebody else. And a chatbot
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.360
isn't even a real human. So it's going to take
00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.440
that to the next level. So in contrast, on Facebook,
00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:09.980
you can connect with a human to a certain extent.
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.240
Obviously, it's arguable whether that's always
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.320
beneficial or not, but at least it's another
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.899
human being. But with a chatbot, that's not even
00:15:16.899 --> 00:15:19.360
a real person. So the danger here for any normal
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.299
person to be aware of is an additional threat
00:15:22.299 --> 00:15:24.980
to disconnection and increased loneliness. So
00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:28.580
many mentors, health coaches, life coaches, and
00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:30.820
people who genuinely want to help others succeed.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.899
Talk about how important your network is. Ideas
00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:37.259
like, show me your network and I'll show you
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.879
your net worth. Or, show me the five people you
00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:41.820
surround yourself with and I'll show you your
00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:44.080
future. We've talked about on previous episodes
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.279
how important the community that you surround
00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.259
yourself with will influence your future, your
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.240
decision making, and even your mindset. And how
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.100
it can be challenging when you want to change
00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:57.659
your mindset can really help open your eyes to
00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:00.100
if you've got kind of a crabs in the bucket scenario.
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:03.200
where you're trying to change, better yourself,
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.580
and those people in your life that are not fans
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.179
of that can try to pull you back down, which
00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:10.559
ultimately leads you to a decision. If they won't
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.159
go with you, then they may no longer be worthy
00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.740
to be in that circle. But relationships like
00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:20.039
this take time, investment, sacrifice, and come
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.139
with highs and unfortunate lows. You have to
00:16:23.139 --> 00:16:25.340
put yourself out there. And in order to surround
00:16:25.340 --> 00:16:27.980
yourself around people who are high quality,
00:16:28.570 --> 00:16:32.570
You also have to be someone who is worthy of
00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:35.789
being chosen by people like this, which is why
00:16:35.789 --> 00:16:38.370
optimization is something I'm so passionate about.
00:16:38.549 --> 00:16:40.970
It starts with you. You can't control anyone
00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:43.490
else. You can only control you. So if you're
00:16:43.490 --> 00:16:45.289
frustrated with your circle and you're like,
00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:48.990
man, I wish I had friends like you have, sometimes
00:16:48.990 --> 00:16:52.129
I have to say, are you sure you would be friends
00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:54.899
with someone like you? which is a really hard
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:57.120
thing to hear, I understand. But that's similar
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.539
to scenarios when people are frustrated that
00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:01.600
they can't find a significant other that they
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.259
would like to find. I'm like, well, would someone
00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:06.900
want to date someone like you? That's a very
00:17:06.900 --> 00:17:09.059
good question you should ask yourself. I think
00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:11.599
a lot of Jordan Peterson's work was around this
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.759
when he spoke to young men and challenged them
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.359
to be better, take up responsibility, and make
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.819
something of themselves. Clean your room, he
00:17:18.819 --> 00:17:21.099
would say, yes? And that has a tremendous amount
00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:23.589
of value. I don't think it's red pill. I think
00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:26.750
it's super, super powerful for a young boy who's
00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:29.309
an adult, who can't stop playing video games,
00:17:29.410 --> 00:17:32.650
who maybe is newly married and his wife is frustrated
00:17:32.650 --> 00:17:34.650
that he's not even helping around the house.
00:17:34.829 --> 00:17:37.750
Listen, guy, grow up and clean your dang room,
00:17:37.849 --> 00:17:41.809
yeah? So are you somebody that is worthy of being
00:17:41.809 --> 00:17:45.119
a friend to a multimillionaire? that person ain't
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.579
got time to mess around with somebody who doesn't
00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:49.579
have their crap together. So I'll get off that
00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:51.980
soapbox. That's for another episode maybe. But
00:17:51.980 --> 00:17:54.960
back to the idea of cultivating quality relationships
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.500
and shaping yourself as a person who people would
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:01.859
want to be around takes work, takes effort, and
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:04.640
takes time. And AI is a super easy replacement.
00:18:05.049 --> 00:18:06.549
I think that's why it's worthy to talk about.
00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:08.410
And maybe you're like, dude, I don't think I
00:18:08.410 --> 00:18:09.970
need to be that worried about the conversations
00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.630
I have with AI. I have pretty low stakes convos
00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:15.589
with it. Maybe you're asking it where to have
00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:18.029
dinner or helping you make travel plans. Hey,
00:18:18.089 --> 00:18:20.150
I'm going to be in Washington, DC. What are the
00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:22.690
top 10 places I should visit? Where are they?
00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:25.109
And I agree, for things like that, the stakes
00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:27.529
are pretty low and the concern is not very high.
00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:30.509
But it's super easy to have conversations that
00:18:30.509 --> 00:18:33.549
are higher stakes. Big life decisions, finances,
00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:36.809
business, career direction. And that's why I
00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:38.809
think it's so important when I read the book,
00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:41.650
AI Driven Leader by Jeff Woods, talking about
00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:44.809
how it's best to position AI as your thought
00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:47.809
partner and make sure you remain in the driver's
00:18:47.809 --> 00:18:50.630
seat. Now, Bart brings up one of my favorite
00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:53.920
concepts in the book. and that is curiosity.
00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.960
I think curiosity can apply to so many things
00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.279
because it is such a valuable thing, even in
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.599
someone keeping the humility of remaining a lifetime
00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.460
student, to always be curious, not thinking that
00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:09.460
you have everything figured out, to always want
00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:11.740
to learn, even when you're an expert in something.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.500
And then more specifically, in things like leadership.
00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:17.930
When a leader stays curious, that leaves you
00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:21.809
open to new information, to new data, to context,
00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:24.789
and to gain understanding. And curiosity also
00:19:24.789 --> 00:19:28.470
keeps people in an open posture. And so my hot
00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:32.049
take is that I would take curiosity over judgment.
00:19:32.210 --> 00:19:34.109
And the reason why I think those two are positioned
00:19:34.109 --> 00:19:36.589
together is that anytime you have large amounts
00:19:36.589 --> 00:19:39.569
of data that you're analyzing or that AI is helping
00:19:39.569 --> 00:19:41.829
you analyze or whatever, there are really two
00:19:41.829 --> 00:19:45.579
places that data can bring you to. It can bring
00:19:45.579 --> 00:19:47.819
you to things that you should be curious about
00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:50.579
and ask questions on, or it can bring you to
00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:53.819
judgments, to decisions that you've already made
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:56.700
when you see someone at the bottom of the production
00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.660
metric multiple times in a row. And I think what
00:19:59.660 --> 00:20:02.519
Bart highlights so well with curiosity is that
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.900
it creates the space and time for context, questions,
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.779
and perspectives. But time is valuable, and that
00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:13.859
cost is real. And sometimes it's so much easier.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.059
to rush to judgment because it feels decisive,
00:20:17.299 --> 00:20:21.039
efficient, and heck, the data already made it
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.319
easy. We have all the evidence we need, right?
00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:26.180
But that's unfortunate because judgment quickly
00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.799
puts people on the defensive. It shuts down collaboration.
00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:33.740
And I would argue if you do have any missing
00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:36.920
details, they certainly are not going to find
00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.039
their way to you when you're in that mindset.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.700
If your mind's already made up, you've already
00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.339
made some judgments, our brains work like this
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:46.819
naturally. My wife and I joke about this all
00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:49.480
the time. She's a very black and white individual.
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.619
So we've always joked that sometimes she makes
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:55.799
these overarching statements about any particular
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.200
thing that she observes. And sometimes I'm like,
00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.019
I don't know if it's that simple. And we just
00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:03.200
kind of laugh about it because we know that's
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.619
a natural blind spot for her type A personality.
00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:08.579
Whereas I always try to bring some additional
00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:11.339
nuance to a situation, go, well, yeah, given
00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:13.880
this context, that might change your view. And
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.559
she's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So I
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.220
think regardless of your disposition, the brain
00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:22.380
naturally tries to draw quick conclusions from
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:25.039
things that it's experienced in the past. It's
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.019
a natural pattern recognition situation. The
00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:30.900
brain loves patterns and loves recognizing those
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.750
things. And so it's so easy. to make a judgment
00:21:34.750 --> 00:21:37.250
based on something that looks similar. When the
00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:40.390
data or the AI that analyzes that data gives
00:21:40.390 --> 00:21:43.490
you that landscape, your brain looks at it and
00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:46.390
could easily make some quick judgments that are
00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:49.130
arguably not complete. And what's funny about
00:21:49.130 --> 00:21:52.809
this nuance is once collaboration gets shut down
00:21:52.809 --> 00:21:55.970
and people are on the defensive, now progress
00:21:55.970 --> 00:21:59.029
slows and things become less efficient. Ironically
00:21:59.029 --> 00:22:02.619
so. So in the excitement, of analyzing way more
00:22:02.619 --> 00:22:05.619
data than we ever could analyze before, in coming
00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:08.779
to conclusions faster than we ever could before,
00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:11.859
comes the possibility of being less efficient
00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:15.319
or more efficient and making poorer choices that
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.259
we could pay the penalty for in the future. Like
00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:20.299
my friend who was let go from his organization,
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.259
this is someone that I view as one of the highest
00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:26.680
achievers that I know and one of the best assets
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.900
for... any place that he chooses to work for.
00:22:30.019 --> 00:22:34.200
And yet this global company lost this asset because
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.099
of a bad leader looking at real data that told
00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:41.160
a story that was missing context. This is real
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.059
life. This can happen to anyone if you don't
00:22:44.059 --> 00:22:47.009
create the space. to be curious. So curiosity
00:22:47.009 --> 00:22:50.450
is actually more efficient in the long term.
00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:52.750
So I would argue the most dangerous decisions
00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:56.170
won't always look reckless. Some of them now
00:22:56.170 --> 00:22:59.930
might look perfectly reasonable, supported, and
00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:02.589
easily defended. So what do we do with all this?
00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:05.529
The first step is being aware of the problem,
00:23:05.710 --> 00:23:08.609
aware of the trap. If you know AI can be an echo
00:23:08.609 --> 00:23:11.210
chamber and can also be blind to your own blind
00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:14.039
spots, that might change how you talk to it.
00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:16.400
It might change how you prompt it, asking it
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.619
if there's anything you're missing, and intentionally
00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:21.599
making it try to see different facets of a situation,
00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:24.960
giving it additional context. The important human
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.460
aspect of this, entrusting people close to you
00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.880
with the thoughts and conclusions you may have
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.359
arrived to, knowing that AI is going to affirm
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.319
too much, approve too easily, and make ideas
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.289
sound way better than they are. almost every
00:23:39.289 --> 00:23:42.109
time, keeps you in the right position when you're
00:23:42.109 --> 00:23:44.670
digesting the information. Just knowing those
00:23:44.670 --> 00:23:47.609
things helps change how you interact with it.
00:23:47.650 --> 00:23:49.690
Is there something that I'm missing? How can
00:23:49.690 --> 00:23:52.089
I explore that? What are some additional questions
00:23:52.089 --> 00:23:55.029
I can ask? And then the famous interview technique
00:23:55.029 --> 00:23:58.289
of asking AI to ask you questions to draw out
00:23:58.289 --> 00:24:01.430
additional context so that it can maybe see something
00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:03.680
that you might be missing. And if you know that
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.859
AI is going to magnify your strengths and weaknesses
00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:10.980
like really almost any tool can, then you know
00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:14.259
how to guard against those, explore what those
00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:17.180
are with trusted people close to you. And over
00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:20.240
time, you'll get good. at recognizing when those
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:23.759
appear, either in your own head or in the chatbot
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.539
in front of you. And probably one of the most
00:24:25.539 --> 00:24:28.640
important things is to stay curious. Opening
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.640
that time and keeping it available, creating
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.940
that space for time where curiosity can exist,
00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:38.220
where you can ask those questions, gain the understanding,
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.400
and receive additional context that might affect
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.039
your decision or change your perception. And
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.240
lastly, always keep real people in the loop.
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.079
Having soundboards around you that you trust
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.759
is so valuable before the age of AI and now arguably
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.980
even more so. Is this a good idea? Am I on the
00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:59.799
right track? What am I missing? What do you think?
00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:02.359
These are great questions that you can share
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.279
with people that you most care about because
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:06.880
hopefully they will tell you what you need to
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:09.759
hear, not what you want to hear. And that is
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.750
the real test of a true friend. I hope you found
00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:15.430
this deep dive into Bart's book helpful. Shout
00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:17.509
out to Bart. I love the work that he's doing
00:25:17.509 --> 00:25:20.269
in his writing and consulting with his passion
00:25:20.269 --> 00:25:22.849
on wanting to help people become better servant
00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:25.849
leaders and give them the resources, tools, and
00:25:25.849 --> 00:25:28.650
knowledge to magnify their impact and increase
00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:30.890
their success. If you're interested in reading
00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:33.460
Remaining Human, I'll put a link in the description
00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.440
in the show notes. Be sure to use code JOSH10,
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.519
get $10 off your order, as well as check out
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:41.900
his website, Archetype Original, where he provides
00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:44.140
an array of services for business owners and
00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:46.900
leaders to take things to the next level. Thanks
00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:48.839
for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast.
00:25:49.299 --> 00:25:51.240
Remember, growth happens when you take action.
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:53.460
So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:55.759
importantly, put what you learned into action.
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:57.900
Until next time, keep moving forward, because
00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:01.259
as we know, daily anything changes everything.