Longevity, Legislation & the Future of Aging: Inside A4LI's Mission - Episode 272

1
00:01:40,999 --> 00:01:43,981
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity Podcast.

2
00:01:43,981 --> 00:01:44,712
I'm your host, Dr.

3
00:01:44,712 --> 00:01:45,412
Jeffrey Gladden.

4
00:01:45,412 --> 00:01:57,031
And today I'm joined by somebody, Dylan Lemelson, who is not involved in medicine, but at
the same time is very impactful in medicine.

5
00:01:57,031 --> 00:02:04,796
And I had the opportunity to meet Dylan in the context of some interesting legislation
that got passed in Montana.

6
00:02:04,937 --> 00:02:06,578
And I'll leave that as a little teaser.

7
00:02:06,578 --> 00:02:08,719
So Dylan, that, welcome to the show.

8
00:02:08,873 --> 00:02:10,683
Thanks for having me, Gladden.

9
00:02:10,683 --> 00:02:12,423
I'm excited to chat with you.

10
00:02:12,423 --> 00:02:13,944
Yeah, absolutely.

11
00:02:13,944 --> 00:02:18,847
So Dylan, explain to the audience kind of what it is you do.

12
00:02:18,847 --> 00:02:21,369
And then we'll ask you a little bit of how you got to be doing that.

13
00:02:21,369 --> 00:02:25,241
But just so that people understand what is it that you're actually involved in?

14
00:02:25,553 --> 00:02:30,988
So I founded and I am the president of the Alliance for Longevity Initiatives.

15
00:02:31,429 --> 00:02:44,113
We are a 501c4 political advocacy nonprofit organization focused on representing the
interests of the longevity biotech industry and overall longevity movement on Capitol

16
00:02:44,113 --> 00:02:44,783
Hill.

17
00:02:45,019 --> 00:02:45,960
Okay.

18
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:57,949
So if you're listening to this, you probably know that there's a pretty entrenched concept
around what medicine is and what it isn't that runs through the governmental agencies and

19
00:02:57,949 --> 00:03:06,795
also through Congress and the presidential branch of the, of the U S has been involved in
it as well.

20
00:03:06,976 --> 00:03:11,279
Point being that it's not particularly friendly to

21
00:03:11,475 --> 00:03:13,367
what we would call longevity medicine.

22
00:03:13,367 --> 00:03:23,446
In fact, longevity medicine is not even really recognized as a term by people in what I
would call traditional medicine or as I refer to it sometimes as sick care.

23
00:03:24,387 --> 00:03:32,455
and so how did you come to be enamored with trying to be a champion for longevity
medicine, on Capitol Hill?

24
00:03:32,455 --> 00:03:33,766
What brought you to that?

25
00:03:33,766 --> 00:03:37,405
Did you wake up at six years old and said, is what I'm going to do with my life or what
happened?

26
00:03:37,405 --> 00:03:38,735
Definitely not.

27
00:03:39,256 --> 00:03:40,777
But it did.

28
00:03:40,777 --> 00:03:45,299
My interest in this field did start at a young age, I'll give the quick backstory.

29
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:55,225
So I have a father who has been involved with and interested in futuristic technologies
from the investment standpoint for about 20 years.

30
00:03:55,225 --> 00:03:56,846
Okay.

31
00:03:56,846 --> 00:04:06,211
And one day when he was driving me to school, he showed me a video of Aubrey DeGray, and I
was 12 years old at this time.

32
00:04:06,655 --> 00:04:15,455
Um, and when you're 12 years old and you're driving in the car with your dad and you see a
man like Aubrey DeGray with his beard, you're, you know, you're like, well, you know, why

33
00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:18,055
the heck is Gandalf given me health advice here?

34
00:04:18,055 --> 00:04:18,515
Right.

35
00:04:18,515 --> 00:04:19,415
Who is this guy?

36
00:04:19,415 --> 00:04:19,955
Yeah.

37
00:04:19,955 --> 00:04:20,355
Right.

38
00:04:20,355 --> 00:04:25,855
Um, but from that point, I became completely fascinated by the concept of longevity.

39
00:04:25,895 --> 00:04:32,515
Uh, and then growing up, you know, 13, 14, 15, you kind of stop thinking about aging and
living healthier and longer.

40
00:04:32,515 --> 00:04:35,575
You're more focused on finding a date to the prom and.

41
00:04:35,793 --> 00:04:38,586
you know, sorting out where you're to go to college and things like that.

42
00:04:38,586 --> 00:04:39,307
Yeah.

43
00:04:39,307 --> 00:04:42,169
At that time, also, I got very involved with politics.

44
00:04:42,169 --> 00:04:49,276
I lived or I went to school, went to college in southeast Pennsylvania, which is a
political hotspot.

45
00:04:49,697 --> 00:04:55,603
And I went to Haverford College, Philadelphia.

46
00:04:55,603 --> 00:04:56,244
Yep.

47
00:04:56,244 --> 00:05:02,537
I went to Temple Med and I, I lived in, not far from Haverford.

48
00:05:02,803 --> 00:05:06,915
Well, it's, it was about three fourths the size of my high school.

49
00:05:06,915 --> 00:05:12,648
So I'm surprised, you know, not many people do, but it's a great school and I'm happy I
went there to expose me to a lot.

50
00:05:13,468 --> 00:05:19,081
But I got involved with politics in 2017 2018 2019 2020.

51
00:05:19,081 --> 00:05:25,295
So is this politics as in national politics or like school politics or state politics or
whatever?

52
00:05:25,295 --> 00:05:27,717
State and national.

53
00:05:27,717 --> 00:05:37,984
So full disclosure, now I am very moderate and ambivalent to political parties.

54
00:05:37,984 --> 00:05:47,130
In my position now, I have to work with both sides and longevity as a topic should not be
politicized or made partisan in any way.

55
00:05:47,833 --> 00:06:00,520
I've often thought that one thing that everybody, no matter what your political view would
be, is that optimizing human life, decreasing human suffering, should be something that

56
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,018
everybody could agree to.

57
00:06:02,018 --> 00:06:02,698
Absolutely.

58
00:06:02,698 --> 00:06:03,378
Yeah.

59
00:06:03,378 --> 00:06:08,000
It's, it's something everybody agrees with, whether they realize it or not.

60
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:08,240
Yeah.

61
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,141
Right.

62
00:06:10,141 --> 00:06:16,532
So I give that disclosure to say that, you know, I am, you know, more in the middle than,
than ever.

63
00:06:16,532 --> 00:06:25,961
And it's because of this longevity effort that, you know, brought me to the middle, but I
worked for the democratic national committee in 2018 and 2019.

64
00:06:25,961 --> 00:06:32,027
And then I worked for the Biden campaign out in rural Pennsylvania, what they call pencil
Tucky.

65
00:06:32,203 --> 00:06:32,823
in 2020.

66
00:06:32,823 --> 00:06:33,783
Right.

67
00:06:33,783 --> 00:06:36,184
was I was out there in the weeds.

68
00:06:37,145 --> 00:06:42,146
And during my time with the Biden campaign, COVID hit it was right.

69
00:06:42,146 --> 00:06:45,287
You know, my time coincided right with the beginning of COVID.

70
00:06:46,087 --> 00:06:50,028
And really what drove me back to this field was two things.

71
00:06:50,028 --> 00:06:53,309
One, my grandfather who's turning 98 this year.

72
00:06:53,309 --> 00:06:59,827
So you might agree that I have some pretty good longevity genes somewhere in my my

73
00:06:59,827 --> 00:07:03,447
What I would agree is that he has some pretty good longevity genes.

74
00:07:03,515 --> 00:07:05,077
He definitely does.

75
00:07:05,077 --> 00:07:06,659
I hope I got some of it.

76
00:07:06,659 --> 00:07:09,282
definitely hope I got some.

77
00:07:09,282 --> 00:07:21,355
But he moved in with us at the beginning of COVID and fortunately and miraculously, he's
fine and still living a very, very independent life for a 98-year-old.

78
00:07:21,631 --> 00:07:23,371
I'll make a quick comment about that.

79
00:07:23,371 --> 00:07:34,251
know that people that live a long time in life, they typically have genetics that optimize
their immune system, their cardiovascular health, and their decreased risk of cognitive

80
00:07:34,251 --> 00:07:34,831
decline.

81
00:07:34,831 --> 00:07:42,111
That triad seems to be pretty uniform when you go across people that have made it to a
hundred or 110, that kind of thing.

82
00:07:42,111 --> 00:07:45,823
So I suspect he's got some good immune function genes.

83
00:07:45,823 --> 00:07:46,363
Absolutely.

84
00:07:46,363 --> 00:07:48,963
He did get COVID eventually and beat it.

85
00:07:48,963 --> 00:07:49,543
Yeah.

86
00:07:49,543 --> 00:07:51,103
At 96 maybe.

87
00:07:51,223 --> 00:07:52,803
So, you know, impressive.

88
00:07:52,803 --> 00:07:53,223
Yeah.

89
00:07:53,223 --> 00:07:54,703
And he's still sharp as a tack.

90
00:07:54,703 --> 00:07:58,143
And, you know, I love him very much and love talking with him.

91
00:07:58,143 --> 00:08:01,123
And he's a great conversationalist still at this age.

92
00:08:01,123 --> 00:08:04,583
So I'm very fortunate, very fortunate to have my grandfather.

93
00:08:05,023 --> 00:08:12,883
But he moved in and unfortunately, you know, many of his friends in his circles did not
have the same fate when it came to COVID.

94
00:08:12,883 --> 00:08:13,463
That's right.

95
00:08:13,463 --> 00:08:15,517
And so sort of watching him

96
00:08:15,517 --> 00:08:20,843
watch his friends get sick and pass away affected me in a very major way.

97
00:08:20,843 --> 00:08:30,162
I started thinking about the pandemic that would hit when I'm 90 and how I wanted to be
able to deal with that with my health.

98
00:08:30,883 --> 00:08:38,591
And then also it was a kind of coming of age moment for me with my college career ending
and me kind of joining the real world.

99
00:08:38,591 --> 00:08:48,551
And it actually wasn't until my college baseball coach and I had our end of career wrap up
meeting and he told me, good luck with the rest of your life.

100
00:08:48,551 --> 00:08:51,731
He said those words and it's burned into my head forever.

101
00:08:52,991 --> 00:08:55,411
And, you know, I started thinking the rest of my life.

102
00:08:55,411 --> 00:08:56,895
Oh my, you what's next?

103
00:08:56,895 --> 00:09:04,074
I'm gonna ask you this, did he say good luck with the rest of your life as in, you you
screwed up so badly here, I hope the rest of it's better, or you did so great here, we

104
00:09:04,074 --> 00:09:05,665
hope the rest of your life is

105
00:09:06,907 --> 00:09:10,908
you know, I, probably a little bit of both.

106
00:09:11,358 --> 00:09:20,631
I think he was just saying, you know, I doubt he knows, how much those words impacted me,
but, know, it caused me to think about the rest of my life and what the rest of my life

107
00:09:20,631 --> 00:09:21,531
held.

108
00:09:21,771 --> 00:09:32,134
And, you know, I started, I sort of saw my fate, if I was lucky to be similar to my
grandfather's who is, you know, terrified of a novel disease that could potentially kill

109
00:09:32,134 --> 00:09:33,025
him at any moment.

110
00:09:33,025 --> 00:09:34,355
And, you know,

111
00:09:34,355 --> 00:09:37,538
partially immobile and aged, right?

112
00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:47,915
And the combination of those two things made me remember about that man with the long
beard that I heard about when I was 12.

113
00:09:48,148 --> 00:09:55,355
And I threw myself into learning as much as I possibly could about this field from sort of
a fanboy and a lay person's perspective.

114
00:09:55,355 --> 00:09:59,759
I'm not a doctor, I have no biology background, but.

115
00:09:59,871 --> 00:10:08,408
The beautiful part about this effort is you don't need, know, if you're going to create a
drug or therapeutic or intervention or treat patients, you probably want a medical or

116
00:10:08,408 --> 00:10:14,903
biological, biology background, but you can be a player in the field and make things
happen even without that.

117
00:10:14,903 --> 00:10:25,932
And so I sort of realized during my time with the Biden campaign that this field was
growing, this longevity field and movement was growing, but no one was on the Hill

118
00:10:25,932 --> 00:10:29,255
speaking to the powers that be in Congress and in the

119
00:10:29,255 --> 00:10:38,281
presidents in the White House about ways that they can accelerate the ways they can usher
in the age of longevity.

120
00:10:38,281 --> 00:10:48,967
And so I took it upon myself to start a for li to be sort of a conduit between this
growing longevity field and Congress and the White House.

121
00:10:49,605 --> 00:10:52,216
That's a big vision.

122
00:10:52,216 --> 00:10:56,198
I mean, at that point in time, you had graduated from college.

123
00:10:56,198 --> 00:11:00,820
I'm going say you're in your early 20s when all this is going down.

124
00:11:00,820 --> 00:11:09,384
It's a big vision to say, okay, I'm going to go to Capitol Hill and see if I can change
the world around how politics in general, the country in general, maybe because of that,

125
00:11:09,384 --> 00:11:12,345
the world in general views this whole concept of longevity.

126
00:11:12,345 --> 00:11:15,903
I'm not too far off with that, I don't think, but that's a big vision.

127
00:11:15,903 --> 00:11:16,634
It's a big vision.

128
00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:20,741
think you have to be a little crazy to try it, right?

129
00:11:20,741 --> 00:11:22,889
But fortunately, I am a little crazy.

130
00:11:22,889 --> 00:11:24,210
But that's, that's, that's yeah.

131
00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:26,180
Everything that was ever started was crazy.

132
00:11:26,180 --> 00:11:27,081
Right.

133
00:11:27,541 --> 00:11:28,722
So kudos to you.

134
00:11:28,722 --> 00:11:29,762
Good for you.

135
00:11:30,723 --> 00:11:31,563
Good.

136
00:11:31,563 --> 00:11:40,907
So the question becomes, you know, when I think about, Washington, you know, there are
lots of different terms given to it.

137
00:11:40,907 --> 00:11:42,068
Some of them are flattering.

138
00:11:42,068 --> 00:11:43,828
Most of them are not flattering.

139
00:11:44,959 --> 00:11:46,139
a swamp.

140
00:11:46,139 --> 00:11:47,000
Yeah, that's a good one.

141
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:47,760
Let's go with that.

142
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,511
So when you think about,

143
00:11:50,513 --> 00:11:56,265
Washington, it's a swamp and there's also a lot of self-serving interests there.

144
00:11:57,246 --> 00:12:06,430
And so the question becomes, how do you crack the code when there's really a lot of
financial incentives lined up around, let's say the status quo, whether it's pharma,

145
00:12:06,430 --> 00:12:16,674
whether it's hospital systems, whether it's physicians, whether it's drug development, new
drug development, new therapy development, that kind of stuff.

146
00:12:16,674 --> 00:12:17,654
How do you...

147
00:12:19,603 --> 00:12:22,829
think that you're gonna go in there to that swamp and actually make a difference.

148
00:12:22,829 --> 00:12:25,885
How are you going about that?

149
00:12:25,885 --> 00:12:36,442
Yeah, well, you know, one one mid 20 year old guy up against the machine of Washington is
it's a you know, it's a David versus Goliath situation for sure.

150
00:12:36,442 --> 00:12:38,313
Unfortunately.

151
00:12:38,313 --> 00:12:39,415
David against Goliath.

152
00:12:39,415 --> 00:12:43,574
think it's more like David against the rest of the, I don't know.

153
00:12:43,574 --> 00:12:48,600
mean, Goliath's not big enough, Yeah, exactly.

154
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,101
It's definitely a challenge.

155
00:12:50,101 --> 00:12:58,085
But fortunately, you know, when you talk about incentivization, it's there for people to
embrace longevity.

156
00:12:58,245 --> 00:13:08,830
When you're a member of Congress, what you care about obviously is, you know, passing laws
to benefit the country, but you really also care about getting reelected and making your

157
00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:10,431
constituents happy.

158
00:13:11,187 --> 00:13:14,719
There is a beautiful economic analysis called the longevity dividend.

159
00:13:14,719 --> 00:13:17,247
And I'm not sure if your audience is familiar with it or not.

160
00:13:17,247 --> 00:13:19,289
let's hear about the longevity difference.

161
00:13:19,359 --> 00:13:19,959
Sure, yes.

162
00:13:19,959 --> 00:13:29,519
So it describes what happens to GDP and economically when one average healthy year of life
expectancy is added to a population.

163
00:13:30,459 --> 00:13:42,959
And there are a number of iterations of the longevity dividend out there, but generally
the range for added GDP for one extra year of healthy life expectancy is between three-ish

164
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:44,939
to $38 trillion.

165
00:13:46,727 --> 00:13:47,868
Let me get this straight.

166
00:13:47,868 --> 00:13:53,887
This is for if you added one year of healthy lifespan to every individual in the country.

167
00:13:53,887 --> 00:13:55,287
Yes, exactly.

168
00:14:01,807 --> 00:14:04,087
Everybody understands GDP.

169
00:14:04,347 --> 00:14:08,007
Everybody understands why GDP would go up.

170
00:14:08,007 --> 00:14:11,087
When you break it down, it becomes very obvious.

171
00:14:11,087 --> 00:14:19,327
If we can keep people out of hospitals and participating in the economy, that's a grower
of the GDP.

172
00:14:19,557 --> 00:14:23,291
Yeah, you take away the minuses and you continue to compound the pluses.

173
00:14:23,291 --> 00:14:25,194
Exactly.

174
00:14:25,436 --> 00:14:34,274
And so that's the greatest drive, you know, incentive driver of any, you know, that that
those numbers there are compelling as compelling as any number you can.

175
00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:36,251
That's surprisingly compelling.

176
00:14:36,251 --> 00:14:37,791
Like I would not have guessed that.

177
00:14:37,791 --> 00:14:40,511
I would have said, oh, it's going to be some billions.

178
00:14:40,511 --> 00:14:47,491
I mean, if you're talking about everybody in the country, it's going to be some billions
of dollars, but 37 trillion.

179
00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:48,735
I mean, that's the high range.

180
00:14:48,735 --> 00:14:49,555
That's the high range.

181
00:14:49,555 --> 00:14:54,301
I was going to say that's like the size of the entire economy, if I'm not mistaken.

182
00:14:54,301 --> 00:14:57,099
like one, one and a half times the size of that.

183
00:14:57,099 --> 00:14:59,761
It's actually about equal to the national debt.

184
00:15:00,802 --> 00:15:01,283
right?

185
00:15:01,283 --> 00:15:03,855
Which is, we won't get into that conversation.

186
00:15:03,855 --> 00:15:08,328
the, that's, mean, it's a phenomenal impact.

187
00:15:08,328 --> 00:15:11,691
It's a phenomenal impact when you look at it that way.

188
00:15:12,731 --> 00:15:13,855
And what I say

189
00:15:13,855 --> 00:15:15,890
Do people agree with you that this is what it is?

190
00:15:15,890 --> 00:15:16,423
On the high end?

191
00:15:16,423 --> 00:15:17,648
What's the low end?

192
00:15:17,932 --> 00:15:20,774
About like 2.7 trillion.

193
00:15:20,956 --> 00:15:21,316
Okay.

194
00:15:21,316 --> 00:15:22,157
it's widespread.

195
00:15:22,157 --> 00:15:23,168
Yeah, it's widespread.

196
00:15:23,168 --> 00:15:30,507
regardless of what it is, an extra $3 trillion to the US's GDP is substantial.

197
00:15:30,651 --> 00:15:31,579
It's massive.

198
00:15:31,579 --> 00:15:33,021
And that's for one year, right?

199
00:15:33,021 --> 00:15:36,295
So what happens when we do this for five years or 10 years?

200
00:15:36,512 --> 00:15:40,860
I'll bet there's something here if you do it for five years, it's more than additive.

201
00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:42,673
It probably has a compounding element.

202
00:15:42,673 --> 00:15:45,287
Is that math math to have been done also?

203
00:15:45,724 --> 00:15:59,856
I so so the other in that $37 trillion paper, also look at what would happen if it was
increased to 10 years, and it's about 370 trillion.

204
00:15:59,856 --> 00:16:03,294
so they did it a little bit more just straight multiplication.

205
00:16:03,323 --> 00:16:08,825
which those numbers to me also are like, wow, I mean, I can't even wrap my head around
$370 trillion.

206
00:16:08,886 --> 00:16:11,657
That's an impossible number for people to wrap their heads around.

207
00:16:11,657 --> 00:16:12,307
Yeah.

208
00:16:12,307 --> 00:16:24,702
But, you know, the the importance of that paper is not the number, it's the fact that any
amount of trillions is worth it here, because there's the other the other end of the

209
00:16:24,702 --> 00:16:28,213
spectrum is, you know, obviously economic, but moral, right?

210
00:16:28,213 --> 00:16:32,425
We have a moral duty as a government as a society to keep people healthy.

211
00:16:32,425 --> 00:16:33,426
for as long as possible.

212
00:16:33,426 --> 00:16:44,808
The reason why we have houses and we have jobs and cars and the cars have seat belts and
we have pharmacies and doctors and et cetera, we've built society to keep people alive,

213
00:16:44,808 --> 00:16:45,098
right?

214
00:16:45,098 --> 00:16:48,319
So this is part of what we've been doing for our entire history.

215
00:16:48,319 --> 00:16:48,659
Yeah.

216
00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:50,899
And I think the moral mandate is there.

217
00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:58,199
Unfortunately, when you look at the government, it hasn't always aligned with the moral
mandate.

218
00:16:58,199 --> 00:16:58,619
Right.

219
00:16:58,619 --> 00:17:01,039
I think this is where economic interests come in.

220
00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:08,739
So let's look at it through a selfish economic perspective, because that's many times the
lens that is looked at through.

221
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:10,759
You know, if you're doing, let's get the low end of it.

222
00:17:10,759 --> 00:17:12,239
Let's say you're doing 2.7.

223
00:17:12,239 --> 00:17:14,139
Let's round it up to $3 trillion.

224
00:17:15,335 --> 00:17:26,240
You know, what's interesting about that is if you look at what the healthcare spend is,
right, in a given year, it's about, what is it now, four or five trillion dollars.

225
00:17:26,441 --> 00:17:37,806
So if you're, if you're adding three trillion, you know, you, you, you've actually, let's
say you're invested in, you make a lot of money out of that five trillion that gets spent,

226
00:17:37,806 --> 00:17:38,726
right.

227
00:17:38,747 --> 00:17:39,837
Because, you know,

228
00:17:39,837 --> 00:17:46,530
you're invested in sick care and keeping people sick or whatever, whatever, you know,
scenario people want to talk about.

229
00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:53,473
but if there's another 3 trillion coming in, it's like, my gosh, well, there's an
opportunity we're going to more than offset.

230
00:17:53,473 --> 00:17:59,165
We're going to more than offset what we lose on one side by what we're going to be able to
gain on the other side.

231
00:17:59,165 --> 00:18:05,368
Plus the added wisdom of people as they advance through life being healthy, right?

232
00:18:05,368 --> 00:18:08,079
Cause I think this is the other piece that's missed is that.

233
00:18:08,573 --> 00:18:09,974
You know, we have this perception.

234
00:18:09,974 --> 00:18:11,874
This is in the longevity space for sure.

235
00:18:11,874 --> 00:18:14,886
We have this perception that as people age, they decline.

236
00:18:14,946 --> 00:18:23,380
But in true longevity, as people age and you know, our concept of longevity is to end up
with a 30 year old body and a 300 slash 3000 year old mind.

237
00:18:23,380 --> 00:18:23,610
Right.

238
00:18:23,610 --> 00:18:33,925
So not only do you get that economic return, but now you're getting the psycho spiritual
intellectual wisdom return of people that are older, but now have greater perspective and

239
00:18:33,925 --> 00:18:35,295
can bring more.

240
00:18:35,644 --> 00:18:39,145
wisdom into the economy, into the country itself, right?

241
00:18:39,145 --> 00:18:43,441
So I think that's really probably difficult to measure, but I think that's also massive.

242
00:18:43,441 --> 00:18:44,072
Absolutely.

243
00:18:44,072 --> 00:18:50,277
you know, just a slight digression, you know, I've always believed that our politicians
should be of older ages.

244
00:18:50,277 --> 00:18:54,561
They are the ones who have seen the most and the ones that have experienced the most.

245
00:18:54,882 --> 00:19:01,213
But the barrier for an effective older politician is the fact that their physical

246
00:19:01,213 --> 00:19:02,689
Yeah, that's right.

247
00:19:02,865 --> 00:19:13,699
We can remedy that, you know, we can gain from their experience and wisdom without having
to watch people, you know, fall down and stop speaking and things like that.

248
00:19:13,699 --> 00:19:25,059
when you go to Washington and you roll this concept out of the longevity dividend, let's
say you roll out 37 trillion, I'm sure people look at you a little bit cockeyed.

249
00:19:25,059 --> 00:19:29,919
Even if you rolled out 3 trillion, would still get people's attention.

250
00:19:30,399 --> 00:19:32,959
And maybe even with a little more credibility.

251
00:19:35,379 --> 00:19:35,739
Yeah.

252
00:19:35,739 --> 00:19:36,139
Okay.

253
00:19:36,139 --> 00:19:36,499
All right.

254
00:19:36,499 --> 00:19:37,289
Got it.

255
00:19:37,289 --> 00:19:42,215
So, but what's the reception that you get when you talk to people about this?

256
00:19:42,215 --> 00:19:43,919
How do people look at that?

257
00:19:43,999 --> 00:19:55,239
you know, it's, like you said, a little a little bit of bewilderment, a little bit of
amusement, they you know, it's almost an unbelievable number.

258
00:19:55,259 --> 00:19:57,679
The 37 trillion is at least right.

259
00:19:57,679 --> 00:19:58,279
Right.

260
00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:01,759
And so partially, you know, that's why I give a range.

261
00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:13,039
But also, I make sure to hammer home that no matter what the actual number is, we know
what the range is, if it's $10 trillion, that is still more than worth

262
00:20:14,099 --> 00:20:21,503
shooting for our national health care expenditure by 2028 is projected to hit I believe
seven and a half trillion.

263
00:20:21,503 --> 00:20:30,287
So we also frame this in the kind of context of we don't have we're approaching the edge
of a cliff here.

264
00:20:30,588 --> 00:20:30,888
Right?

265
00:20:30,888 --> 00:20:36,711
This is a cliff that every country in the world is facing but America too.

266
00:20:36,791 --> 00:20:39,753
We're spending more money than anybody else on health care costs.

267
00:20:39,753 --> 00:20:43,917
So we should be the most focused on increasing longevity and

268
00:20:43,917 --> 00:20:47,827
delivering next generation therapeutics and interventions to get us there.

269
00:20:47,827 --> 00:20:48,707
Yeah.

270
00:20:48,847 --> 00:20:56,430
Well, there's that statement in itself is very multifaceted as to why we're spending more
than any of our country.

271
00:20:56,970 --> 00:21:02,332
That being said, that being said, even taking all that, it just simply at face value.

272
00:21:02,813 --> 00:21:06,404
You would think that from a moral perspective, there would be a reason to look at it.

273
00:21:06,404 --> 00:21:09,375
I guess the question I'm asking, though, is with people's

274
00:21:09,747 --> 00:21:19,094
financial incentives because they have stock in one company or another company or a
company that's benefiting from one situation or another situation.

275
00:21:20,967 --> 00:21:23,558
I found that people tend to be short-sighted.

276
00:21:23,558 --> 00:21:26,541
They tend to be selfish and short-sighted.

277
00:21:26,541 --> 00:21:30,884
And I don't think humans are particularly bright, quite honestly, for this reason.

278
00:21:30,884 --> 00:21:33,906
We're not a particularly bright species, which is why we're on...

279
00:21:34,823 --> 00:21:40,026
you know, the verge of running ourselves into bankruptcy and maybe blowing ourselves up or
creating an AI that could wipe us all out.

280
00:21:40,026 --> 00:21:40,276
Right.

281
00:21:40,276 --> 00:21:54,035
So that being said, I think, I'm just curious how you are able to speak to people in a way
that actually gets them to buy into a bigger vision of goodness for themselves.

282
00:21:54,035 --> 00:21:54,855
Right.

283
00:21:54,879 --> 00:21:55,519
Right.

284
00:21:55,519 --> 00:22:02,959
Well, you know, fortunately also, like I mentioned, members of Congress are older and so
this is something that they care about.

285
00:22:02,959 --> 00:22:03,379
Right.

286
00:22:03,379 --> 00:22:06,199
You know, I was about to disagree with you.

287
00:22:06,199 --> 00:22:12,119
I think humans are, I mean, clearly the most brilliant species out there.

288
00:22:13,199 --> 00:22:13,759
What do you got?

289
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:14,559
Dolphins?

290
00:22:15,003 --> 00:22:17,882
No, well, dolphins are, I think, are better than we are.

291
00:22:17,882 --> 00:22:19,125
Yeah, I mean...

292
00:22:19,448 --> 00:22:25,284
I would disagree with you, but humans are definitely the most selfish of the species out
there, right?

293
00:22:25,284 --> 00:22:27,767
which is not very intelligent.

294
00:22:27,767 --> 00:22:28,409
Right.

295
00:22:28,409 --> 00:22:33,798
But you know, it probably comes from some evolutionary trait that we've developed, right?

296
00:22:33,798 --> 00:22:39,337
And you know, when we were back in the caves, we need to be selfish in order to make our
family survive.

297
00:22:39,337 --> 00:22:45,883
I would argue it's a defect that if we don't overcome is actually going to be difficult
for us to survive that trait.

298
00:22:45,999 --> 00:22:48,650
Regardless, we are selfish, though, right?

299
00:22:48,650 --> 00:22:58,822
And so, you know, playing into not only this economic argument and the moral argument to,
you know, care about your neighbors and do this for the people that you love, but really

300
00:22:58,822 --> 00:23:06,724
making it about the person and the member, the staffer that you're talking about really
helps drive the point home.

301
00:23:06,725 --> 00:23:14,257
We want to live in a world where if you're if I'm talking to a 30 year old staffer, do you
want to live in a world 30 years from now where you're going through the same thing that

302
00:23:14,257 --> 00:23:16,009
your grandfather or your

303
00:23:16,009 --> 00:23:17,430
parent is going through right now.

304
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:17,970
Right.

305
00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:27,346
And if you're 60 years old, or 50 years old, and you're starting to deal with these
issues, you know, do you want to not only continue on this path, but do you want this for

306
00:23:27,346 --> 00:23:29,447
your child or grandchildren?

307
00:23:29,447 --> 00:23:36,219
So if you make it personal, personal and relatable, in that sense, it drives the point
home a lot more.

308
00:23:36,219 --> 00:23:36,709
I agree.

309
00:23:36,709 --> 00:23:38,220
A hundred percent agree with you on that.

310
00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:39,392
I think that that is right.

311
00:23:39,392 --> 00:23:40,944
You have to make it personal.

312
00:23:40,944 --> 00:23:45,728
So let's say you meet the people and you've made it personal and they have a personal
connection to it now.

313
00:23:45,728 --> 00:23:49,441
What kind of, what kind of actions are, are coming out of that?

314
00:23:49,441 --> 00:23:55,257
Are they, it legislation that you're putting forward to do things?

315
00:23:55,257 --> 00:24:02,013
Tell us a little bit about what, the actual initiatives are that you're trying to get, get
them to actually enact.

316
00:24:02,271 --> 00:24:03,031
Sure.

317
00:24:03,051 --> 00:24:06,330
So we started out in 2022.

318
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:14,671
Our first big goal as an organization was to get together a congressional caucus on
longevity science, which we did in early 2023.

319
00:24:15,251 --> 00:24:24,571
To go back to our earlier point, the caucus is bipartisan led by Congressman Paul Tonko
and Gus Bilirakis, which I like to give myself a little pat on the back for.

320
00:24:24,571 --> 00:24:29,311
But like we were saying before, is not, and living healthier for longer.

321
00:24:29,311 --> 00:24:30,951
is not a partisan issue.

322
00:24:30,951 --> 00:24:37,031
It's not something that discriminates across political lines, racial lines, or whatever
lines you want to draw.

323
00:24:37,031 --> 00:24:38,831
It doesn't discriminate, right?

324
00:24:38,831 --> 00:24:42,471
This is an innate human desire to want to live healthy and long.

325
00:24:43,111 --> 00:24:52,091
And so we put that together in early 2023 with the idea that that would be sort of the
launch pad for legislative initiatives into the future.

326
00:24:53,231 --> 00:24:58,199
Later in 2023, and we also mentioned this before, we helped pass a bill

327
00:24:58,267 --> 00:25:05,073
SB 422 in the state government of Montana that expands eligibility under the Right to Try
law.

328
00:25:05,073 --> 00:25:15,862
So Right to Try was a piece of legislation that started out in the states, became federal
legislation in the first Trump administration, and it allows terminally ill patients the

329
00:25:15,862 --> 00:25:20,265
right to access therapeutics that are not fully approved by FDA.

330
00:25:20,265 --> 00:25:27,921
The issue with that for our longevity community and this whole mindset is we shouldn't
have to wait until we're terminally ill

331
00:25:27,987 --> 00:25:30,178
to try to remain healthy, right?

332
00:25:30,178 --> 00:25:35,150
Once you're terminally ill, it's very difficult to actually revert back to a state of true
health.

333
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:42,593
And so we should be intervening in the process of getting terminally ill far before we
actually get the disease that classifies us as terminally ill.

334
00:25:42,714 --> 00:25:51,818
So what we did in Montana is we took the existing law, we changed some of the language,
and now all patients, whether you're healthy or terminally ill, have the right to try in

335
00:25:51,818 --> 00:25:52,978
Montana.

336
00:25:52,978 --> 00:25:55,303
The one caveat there is

337
00:25:55,303 --> 00:26:02,288
If you are a healthy patient, classified as a healthy patient, you can access therapeutics
that have only passed phase one safety trials.

338
00:26:02,288 --> 00:26:14,657
We did not want to give people drugs or therapeutics that would make them sick, but beyond
that, we should be attempting to intervene and mitigate the damages of aging and disease

339
00:26:14,657 --> 00:26:17,843
before it becomes a full blown catastrophe.

340
00:26:17,843 --> 00:26:20,964
Yeah, that's fantastic that you're able to get that done.

341
00:26:21,444 --> 00:26:27,826
and I had a conversation with you and the Senator from Montana about this five, six months
ago.

342
00:26:29,187 --> 00:26:33,628
and, Aubrey DeGray for that matter, just for the audience, we're rolling the call
together.

343
00:26:34,408 --> 00:26:39,390
so the interesting thing is that Montana chose to do this.

344
00:26:39,810 --> 00:26:43,327
I don't think of Montana necessarily as being the most.

345
00:26:43,327 --> 00:26:45,989
cutting edge, forward thin love Montana.

346
00:26:45,989 --> 00:26:49,292
It's beauti I've been there many times

347
00:26:56,771 --> 00:27:04,656
It's so I met Ken through a personal friend, a friend that I actually made at a longevity
conference.

348
00:27:05,397 --> 00:27:07,549
And Ken was completely new to this field.

349
00:27:07,549 --> 00:27:17,095
When I talked to him, it was the first time he had heard about longevity, but it really
resonated with him from the aspect of, know, this is the next big thing, right?

350
00:27:17,095 --> 00:27:22,969
This longevity is what AI was five years ago and what crypto was 10 years ago.

351
00:27:23,270 --> 00:27:25,745
being at the forefront of this is

352
00:27:25,745 --> 00:27:34,280
not only a way to highlight yourself as a politician, but it's a way to put yourself down
in the history books in a very true sense.

353
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:43,976
And so I think that part definitely resonated with Ken also, obviously, the fact that
longevity science means that his parents and he and everybody that he loves would not have

354
00:27:43,976 --> 00:27:46,531
to suffer the same fate as people before us.

355
00:27:46,531 --> 00:27:47,734
And Ken is a young man.

356
00:27:47,734 --> 00:27:51,140
What, Ken's what, in his 30s or 40s, something like that?

357
00:27:52,605 --> 00:27:52,866
Late 30s.

358
00:27:52,866 --> 00:27:53,738
There you go.

359
00:27:53,738 --> 00:27:55,345
Yeah, he's not an older gentleman.

360
00:27:55,345 --> 00:27:56,695
No, no, no.

361
00:27:57,536 --> 00:28:00,999
Yeah, no, Ken is a fascinating individual in his own right.

362
00:28:00,999 --> 00:28:08,563
But I think this longevity aspect of his of his makes him even more fascinating and
compelling as a politician and a political figure.

363
00:28:08,563 --> 00:28:10,105
I'll tell you what I like about this.

364
00:28:10,105 --> 00:28:14,478
I like about the fact that you are, you know, started this in your early twenties.

365
00:28:14,478 --> 00:28:18,852
You've got Ken and his called back half of his thirties.

366
00:28:19,053 --> 00:28:23,967
You know, it's not, it's not the people that are in their seventies or eighties that are,
that are advocating for this.

367
00:28:23,967 --> 00:28:26,450
It's, it's youth that's actually advocating for this.

368
00:28:26,450 --> 00:28:34,917
And when I speak about longevity, I find that there's a really a very powerful resonance
to this message with young people.

369
00:28:35,251 --> 00:28:37,752
because they've all seen their parents and their grandparents.

370
00:28:37,752 --> 00:28:46,535
now they actually, think because they maybe have more mental flexibility, are able to
embrace the concept that, hey, okay, maybe there is a different path here.

371
00:28:47,416 --> 00:28:48,727
And so that's very exciting.

372
00:28:48,727 --> 00:28:58,731
So I would think this would be exciting for the state of Montana also because, you know,
the opportunity to go there as a practitioner and open up a clinic and be able to actually

373
00:28:58,731 --> 00:29:03,543
administer therapies to people is very exciting.

374
00:29:03,563 --> 00:29:04,413
So.

375
00:29:04,467 --> 00:29:05,489
That's very, very cool.

376
00:29:05,489 --> 00:29:12,229
think it spools up a whole bunch of things that I'm sure the entire state must be thinking
about.

377
00:29:12,287 --> 00:29:12,787
Absolutely.

378
00:29:12,787 --> 00:29:17,959
You know, I'll give a little more context as to why I wanted why I pushed for this.

379
00:29:17,959 --> 00:29:29,352
So in 2023, I spent a lot of time traveling the world really going to different longevity
hotspots conferences, you know, getting my feet wet in the field as much as I could.

380
00:29:29,572 --> 00:29:40,625
And what I've seen are people going to places like Mexico and now Honduras and Costa Rica
and places in Eastern Europe to get these experimental therapies, right, right.

381
00:29:40,723 --> 00:29:50,197
From a consumer standpoint, I don't know about you, but if I had $100 million and I wanted
to go get an experimental treatment, I would prefer to stay in the US.

382
00:29:50,197 --> 00:29:51,308
That's my preference.

383
00:29:51,308 --> 00:29:54,781
Maybe not everybody agrees, but I think most people would probably agree with that.

384
00:29:54,781 --> 00:29:57,753
Well, I think people want to go where there's expertise.

385
00:29:57,753 --> 00:30:06,708
I think, you know, athletes have been going to Europe for, you know, decades when they
couldn't get things in the U S but they knew they could go to Germany or someplace and get

386
00:30:06,708 --> 00:30:07,308
something done.

387
00:30:07,308 --> 00:30:07,518
Right.

388
00:30:07,518 --> 00:30:14,002
So I think, I think it's not so much, I think people are attracted to expertise and yes,
the convenience of staying closer to home.

389
00:30:14,002 --> 00:30:22,727
But if you have the expertise in the U S and you create an environment where that
expertise can both drop in and be, you know, fertilized and grown.

390
00:30:23,321 --> 00:30:24,895
That's very compelling, I think.

391
00:30:24,895 --> 00:30:25,635
Absolutely.

392
00:30:25,635 --> 00:30:26,335
Yeah.

393
00:30:26,335 --> 00:30:28,415
And yeah, I agree with you 100%.

394
00:30:28,415 --> 00:30:30,355
The expertise is here in the US.

395
00:30:30,355 --> 00:30:34,495
You know, the US is the leading country in the world, right?

396
00:30:34,795 --> 00:30:41,755
So forcing people to go to countries that are less experienced and have less expertise is
bad for the consumer.

397
00:30:41,755 --> 00:30:50,055
But then from the US, from the US's standpoint, medical tourism is a rapidly growing
industry.

398
00:30:50,415 --> 00:30:55,069
know, billions of dollars a year are spent on medical tourism.

399
00:30:55,069 --> 00:30:59,721
Why are we as a country allowing people to leave the country to spend money?

400
00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:06,805
And why aren't we attracting people from around the world, you know, because of these
regulations to spend money here in the US?

401
00:31:06,805 --> 00:31:11,587
from a consumer and from a government standpoint, you know, this was a no brainer from my
perspective.

402
00:33:27,316 --> 00:33:32,928
Did you ever, I'm curious, did you ever have any conversations with insurance carriers
around this?

403
00:33:32,929 --> 00:33:40,612
Because one of the reasons that medicine is expensive in the US is the malpractice
components of it.

404
00:33:41,593 --> 00:33:48,356
And when you're doing things like this, they're not covered by insurance.

405
00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:52,738
And yet you have physicians that could theoretically be

406
00:33:52,968 --> 00:33:55,169
you know, sued over something potentially.

407
00:33:55,169 --> 00:34:00,331
I'm sure there are things that have to be signed, et cetera, et cetera, but that's never
precluded anybody from suing anybody.

408
00:34:00,331 --> 00:34:12,296
So is there any, is there any input from the insurance industry here or the hospital
industry, or is this just, this whole thing just reside sort of separate from both those

409
00:34:12,296 --> 00:34:13,096
entities?

410
00:34:13,096 --> 00:34:16,338
Yeah, this resides mainly with the consumer and provider.

411
00:34:16,338 --> 00:34:25,794
know, insurance is not required, or the bill at least does not require insurance companies
to cover the cost of these investigational treatments.

412
00:34:25,835 --> 00:34:35,982
And so it is to some extent kind of prohibitive just because, you know, many people can't
go and afford the latest biotech companies therapeutic.

413
00:34:35,982 --> 00:34:42,506
But what we were hoping is that people who are willing to try and have the capital to do
so would try.

414
00:34:42,978 --> 00:34:53,666
and use the data from their experience taking whatever drug, whatever therapeutic to help
advance our knowledge of that therapeutic and intervention, right?

415
00:34:53,666 --> 00:35:00,871
And it's sort of an N equals one experiment that I know obviously those aren't, you know,
perfect or great, but anecdotes have their place in medicine to some extent.

416
00:35:00,871 --> 00:35:05,173
That's why we're seeing people take ivermectin for cancer treatments, right?

417
00:35:05,694 --> 00:35:11,458
And so, you know, that is something that we would like to address, but you know, we can't
also,

418
00:35:11,528 --> 00:35:16,658
require insurance companies to cover a $100,000.

419
00:35:17,218 --> 00:35:17,598
Right.

420
00:35:17,598 --> 00:35:18,459
No, I get that.

421
00:35:18,459 --> 00:35:27,293
I just didn't know if they were somehow trying to weigh in on this or the hospitals were
trying to weigh in on this in some way because you've got a parallel sort of system

422
00:35:27,293 --> 00:35:28,123
happening.

423
00:35:28,123 --> 00:35:29,363
Right.

424
00:35:29,363 --> 00:35:31,884
So but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

425
00:35:33,485 --> 00:35:35,426
Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating.

426
00:35:35,426 --> 00:35:41,388
I think it creates lots of opportunity for getting this really kind of spooled up.

427
00:35:41,409 --> 00:35:44,918
I can imagine that

428
00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:50,692
There are lot of really interesting and innovative technologies that we're involved with.

429
00:35:50,733 --> 00:35:58,977
and some we'd like to be involved with that have passed phase one trials, but are still,
you know, tied up in the FDA process.

430
00:35:59,057 --> 00:36:03,589
But, in Montana, we could bring people in there and simply use utilize them.

431
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:14,416
and I'm sure that biotech is pretty excited about that too, because it enables them to
collect more data on things and understand and make it better and safer for everybody.

432
00:36:14,416 --> 00:36:14,696
Right.

433
00:36:14,696 --> 00:36:15,496
So.

434
00:36:15,646 --> 00:36:19,317
Yeah, it's a and potentially generate revenue.

435
00:36:19,317 --> 00:36:20,387
Yeah, exactly.

436
00:36:20,387 --> 00:36:21,327
Right.

437
00:36:22,668 --> 00:36:23,438
Yeah, that's right.

438
00:36:23,438 --> 00:36:29,400
How do we have invested, you know, however many millions, billions and now how do we get
in some return?

439
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:29,690
Right.

440
00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:30,670
get that.

441
00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:32,291
Yeah.

442
00:36:32,291 --> 00:36:33,891
So it's it's really pretty interesting.

443
00:36:33,891 --> 00:36:45,114
Now, this probably includes procedures as well as therapeutics like, you know, stem cells
or pharma or

444
00:36:45,971 --> 00:36:47,572
processes or things like that.

445
00:36:47,572 --> 00:36:48,032
that true?

446
00:36:48,032 --> 00:37:01,862
Is there any limitations to this, or is it just any sort of phase one, approved, you know,
medical device slash therapy slash, drug slash whatever.

447
00:37:02,314 --> 00:37:09,394
So this is strictly for drugs and therapeutics that are in the FDA clinical trial
pipeline.

448
00:37:09,954 --> 00:37:25,774
you know, procedures, things like that are not covered or mentioned in SB 422, but I'm
glad to report that I'm actually working with Ken now again on some pieces of policy that

449
00:37:25,774 --> 00:37:28,254
I'll keep quiet for now.

450
00:37:29,716 --> 00:37:31,962
Imagine it's going to expand things a little bit.

451
00:37:31,962 --> 00:37:33,787
Exactly, exactly.

452
00:37:33,882 --> 00:37:34,524
stay tuned.

453
00:37:34,524 --> 00:37:35,285
psychedelics.

454
00:37:35,285 --> 00:37:43,222
I'm curious about that because there are states now in the US that have approved
psychedelics like Oregon and Colorado and places like that.

455
00:37:43,584 --> 00:37:53,254
I don't know that Montana is one of those states and I don't know if this is if there's an
intersection there between psychedelic assisted therapies and that sort of thing.

456
00:37:53,254 --> 00:37:57,938
Is that a piece of this as well or is that still not really part of this?

457
00:37:58,154 --> 00:38:05,234
It's so psychedelics aren't like word for word mentioned in the bill in any way.

458
00:38:05,234 --> 00:38:11,634
But the bill does expand access to investigational drugs and therapeutics that have passed
phase one.

459
00:38:11,634 --> 00:38:24,114
if, for example, a company is doing something with ketamine or, you know, so I've been
right, that would fall under the purview of what's accessible under SB 422.

460
00:38:24,114 --> 00:38:26,056
So, you know, we I

461
00:38:26,056 --> 00:38:34,850
look, I I'm not in the psychedelic world in any way, or form, although there is a
compelling argument for it, because, you know, why would people want to live longer if

462
00:38:34,850 --> 00:38:35,470
they're depressed?

463
00:38:35,470 --> 00:38:38,651
Or, you know, why do people care about that if they're depressed?

464
00:38:38,651 --> 00:38:45,274
So there is a you know, there is a synergistic relationship between what the psychedelics
industry is doing and what we're doing in the longevity industry.

465
00:38:45,274 --> 00:38:48,785
we did not, you know, put that in the bill in any way, or form.

466
00:38:48,785 --> 00:38:54,900
But you know, the interpretation of the bill could be such that it it covers psychedelic
treatments that are in

467
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:58,793
Yeah, they are being studied, of course, at places like Johns Hopkins and other places.

468
00:38:58,793 --> 00:38:59,103
Right.

469
00:38:59,103 --> 00:39:11,632
And really demonstrating some phenomenal successes, really, not only for cancer patients,
for people suffering from, you know, intractable depression or anxiety or PTSD or some of

470
00:39:11,632 --> 00:39:15,004
the other disorders that really don't have any great therapies for it.

471
00:39:15,004 --> 00:39:17,926
So, yeah, very exciting stuff.

472
00:39:18,154 --> 00:39:23,494
anecdotal evidence, but I do have a friend who participated in the ketamine clinical
trial.

473
00:39:24,114 --> 00:39:27,914
And he reports that he doesn't have depression the same way he did.

474
00:39:27,914 --> 00:39:28,254
Right.

475
00:39:28,254 --> 00:39:30,294
So it's very exciting.

476
00:39:31,094 --> 00:39:36,454
And the government allowing people to try is really what we need to have happen.

477
00:39:36,454 --> 00:39:36,634
Right.

478
00:39:36,634 --> 00:39:40,654
The government acting as a roadblock for innovation is the issue.

479
00:39:40,654 --> 00:39:43,230
So that's part of what SB422 is addressing.

480
00:39:43,230 --> 00:39:43,610
Right.

481
00:39:43,610 --> 00:39:49,373
would think that one of the critical things to do in a situation like this would be to be
collecting data.

482
00:39:50,534 --> 00:39:54,586
And I'm sure the companies are potentially collecting data in the bill.

483
00:39:54,586 --> 00:40:06,982
Was there any mention made of a kind of uniform data collection process or program or
you're leaving that up to the company or the clinician or somebody or how's that work?

484
00:40:07,323 --> 00:40:07,703
yeah.

485
00:40:07,703 --> 00:40:12,145
So in, the bill, there was nothing specifically requiring data collection.

486
00:40:12,764 --> 00:40:24,494
but you know, part of what we're trying to do in this go around in the Montana legislative
session is add a provision that incentivizes people to share their clinical data with the

487
00:40:24,494 --> 00:40:25,458
companies.

488
00:40:25,458 --> 00:40:26,069
Okay.

489
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:29,091
You know, Montana is a very unique political state.

490
00:40:29,091 --> 00:40:33,765
They're sort of, know, they're, they're libertarian more so than I would say conservative.

491
00:40:34,146 --> 00:40:39,740
and with being libertarian, you know, they keep the mindset of, know, let me do my thing.

492
00:40:39,740 --> 00:40:44,315
These companies and governments out of my hair and let me go hang out on my ranch.

493
00:40:44,315 --> 00:40:44,935
Right.

494
00:40:44,935 --> 00:40:45,505
Yeah.

495
00:40:45,505 --> 00:40:53,256
so we didn't want to require people in the state because of that fact, to, have to share
their data with, companies.

496
00:40:53,256 --> 00:40:58,291
However, there should be some incentive because that has lost data, which is lost.

497
00:40:59,353 --> 00:41:00,304
It's very valuable.

498
00:41:00,304 --> 00:41:03,540
So we're working to address that here in 2025.

499
00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:03,800
Okay.

500
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,761
That makes good sense.

501
00:41:04,761 --> 00:41:05,021
Yeah.

502
00:41:05,021 --> 00:41:08,092
Montana's land of the free home of the brave, right?

503
00:41:08,092 --> 00:41:08,712
Absolutely.

504
00:41:08,712 --> 00:41:09,543
A bit like Texas.

505
00:41:09,543 --> 00:41:18,447
So are there other states that you're targeting as well or that you have your eye on for
similar legislation?

506
00:41:18,447 --> 00:41:27,321
Or do you feel like Montana is a unique kind of constellation of, you know, legislation
and general populist mentality?

507
00:41:27,321 --> 00:41:28,642
Or what do you think there?

508
00:41:28,692 --> 00:41:34,244
So I would love to see what we did in Montana go federal.

509
00:41:34,244 --> 00:41:38,385
the fact of the matter is Montana is a state with not many people in it.

510
00:41:38,385 --> 00:41:40,886
Not many people can get to Montana, right?

511
00:41:40,886 --> 00:41:42,807
It's a difficult state to get to.

512
00:41:42,807 --> 00:41:49,102
So if we were to do this nationwide, it would be it would open up access to more people in
their home states.

513
00:41:49,102 --> 00:41:50,282
Right?

514
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,928
You're taking up with on the hill, so to speak.

515
00:41:53,928 --> 00:41:57,141
That is one of our policy points that we're pushing forward.

516
00:41:57,141 --> 00:42:08,411
I would say because we passed SB 422 in Montana, I'm less concerned about that than some
of our other initiatives because what we also need is more research and development into

517
00:42:08,411 --> 00:42:11,434
the therapeutics that will help us live healthier and longer.

518
00:42:11,434 --> 00:42:11,744
Right.

519
00:42:11,744 --> 00:42:17,379
And right now we don't really have much that's proven to be effective in extending our
healthy lifespan.

520
00:42:17,379 --> 00:42:21,212
There are things like rapamycin and metformin which have some pretty compelling

521
00:42:21,362 --> 00:42:29,379
data in mice and humans, but you know, we don't have anything definitively that we know
will extend our healthy human lifespan.

522
00:42:29,379 --> 00:42:39,786
So we need to invest in technology development, we need to invest in drug and therapeutic
development to get us to the point where things actually work well.

523
00:42:39,786 --> 00:42:40,306
Sure.

524
00:42:40,306 --> 00:42:40,907
Yeah.

525
00:42:40,907 --> 00:42:46,611
And to your point about, rapid myosin and metformin, even those have come under scrutiny
with, additional trials.

526
00:42:46,611 --> 00:42:50,714
They're not, they're not, quite the gold standard people hoping they might be.

527
00:42:51,355 --> 00:42:54,517
So, congratulations on the work you're doing.

528
00:42:54,517 --> 00:42:56,519
I mean, that's really, it's really impressive.

529
00:42:56,519 --> 00:43:06,516
Again, I commend you for, having the big vision and you know, the big, I don't know,
willpower, put spot to basically.

530
00:43:06,516 --> 00:43:10,488
take on such a project and on getting Montana.

531
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:17,874
you know, think it's whenever you're building a movement like this, it's really a
combination of stepping stones, right?

532
00:43:17,874 --> 00:43:18,744
And I know you know this.

533
00:43:18,744 --> 00:43:24,058
So, anything we can do to be helpful to you, be delighted to do that, of course.

534
00:43:24,286 --> 00:43:37,974
Well, you are participating in our annual DC summit at the end of April, which I could end
sponsoring a four ally, which I couldn't be more thrilled about getting you on the Hill

535
00:43:37,974 --> 00:43:42,326
speaking to staffers and members of Congress will be a great boost for us.

536
00:43:42,326 --> 00:43:45,198
So I appreciate your participation in a four ally.

537
00:43:45,198 --> 00:43:47,109
And I encourage everybody else listening.

538
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:52,522
If you're a doctor, a biotech executive, a researcher to get involved with what we're
doing because

539
00:43:52,743 --> 00:43:56,463
You know, one 26 year old on the hill is not going to get this done.

540
00:43:56,463 --> 00:43:57,195
We need everybody.

541
00:43:57,195 --> 00:44:01,554
This is a coalition we're building and we need everybody's support.

542
00:44:01,554 --> 00:44:05,683
And so where do people go to contact you?

543
00:44:05,683 --> 00:44:09,510
There's a website, just remind them where they would go.

544
00:44:09,522 --> 00:44:15,144
You go to Google type in a four li, can say four li.org in your search bar.

545
00:44:15,545 --> 00:44:18,516
You can anybody feel free to reach out to me.

546
00:44:18,516 --> 00:44:26,809
I'm always looking to talk to people that are interested in moving this moving this
movement this moving the needle.

547
00:44:26,809 --> 00:44:28,330
Yeah, I got lost there.

548
00:44:28,330 --> 00:44:29,951
Moving this forward, right?

549
00:44:29,951 --> 00:44:35,453
My email is Dylan at a four li.org a for the number four li.org.

550
00:44:35,693 --> 00:44:36,533
And

551
00:44:37,674 --> 00:44:42,154
I encourage everybody listening to at least become a member of a four li.

552
00:44:42,154 --> 00:44:56,774
The way that these, you know, broad movements receive the resources they need to pay down
the costs of lobbying and policy development and, and social advocacy campaigns is by a

553
00:44:56,774 --> 00:44:58,334
lot of small dollar donations.

554
00:44:58,334 --> 00:45:01,094
So we have a membership system that's $60 a year.

555
00:45:01,094 --> 00:45:02,654
That's five bucks a month.

556
00:45:02,654 --> 00:45:05,074
You know, that's one less coffee at

557
00:45:05,074 --> 00:45:12,219
Starbucks, which if you substitute the A4LI membership out for a Starbucks coffee, that's
probably a double whammy for your longevity.

558
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,741
right.

559
00:45:13,741 --> 00:45:24,430
And the way that we want to move forward is with, you know, as many people as possible
supporting us and involved with the initiatives that we're pushing forward.

560
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:34,174
The way that AARP, the reason why AARP is so effective is because they have 30 million
Americans paying about a hundred bucks a year to support their

561
00:45:34,174 --> 00:45:35,085
political agenda.

562
00:45:35,085 --> 00:45:45,620
The reason why NRA is so effective is because they have 5 million people paying 100 bucks
a year to advance their legislative priorities.

563
00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:48,112
And so we're looking to replicate that model.

564
00:45:48,112 --> 00:45:53,675
And so I encourage everybody, 60 bucks a year, 5 bucks a month, support what we're doing.

565
00:45:53,675 --> 00:45:56,766
It goes towards the actual advocacy effort.

566
00:45:57,147 --> 00:46:03,250
And it allows us to not only hire more people to get the job done, but produce more

567
00:46:03,562 --> 00:46:08,186
compelling arguments, more compelling policy, more thoughtful policy.

568
00:46:08,647 --> 00:46:13,811
you know, policy is what's going to direct this field and really give it the boost it
needs.

569
00:46:13,811 --> 00:46:15,042
Private industry is great.

570
00:46:15,042 --> 00:46:22,628
I love the private industry, but, you know, there needs to be some interaction by the
government if we're going to really accelerate this thing.

571
00:46:22,836 --> 00:46:23,548
Beautiful.

572
00:46:23,548 --> 00:46:24,018
All right.

573
00:46:24,018 --> 00:46:25,831
Well, thank you so much.

574
00:46:26,793 --> 00:46:33,578
And Dylan, really kudos to the work you're doing and I'll look forward to seeing you in
Washington in April.

575
00:46:33,578 --> 00:46:35,147
Absolutely, absolutely.

576
00:46:35,147 --> 00:46:35,709
Thanks Dr.

577
00:46:35,709 --> 00:46:36,011
Gladden.

578
00:46:36,011 --> 00:46:36,635
I'll see you soon.

579
00:46:36,635 --> 00:46:37,646
See you soon.