You Can Be Successful And Still Be Burning Out, with Lauren Fine

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You wake up, check your messages, answer emails before breakfast, move through the day ticking boxes, delivering results, being the reliable one.
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Everyone sees you as capable, put together the one who handles it all.
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And yet, somewhere along the way, you stop recognizing yourself.
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High functioning burnout doesn't crash loudly.
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It whispers.
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It shows up as exhaustion you can't need.
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Distance from the things that used to matter.
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And a quiet question you're almost afraid to ask.
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Who am I if I'm not doing this?
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Welcome to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life.
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I'm Rhea, and this is where we talk about the real stuff.
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The kind of mental health conversations that feel like sitting down with someone who gets it.
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Today we're going we're going into a kind of burnout that doesn't look like burnout from the outside.
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The kind that affects people who are succeeding by every measure except the one that counts.
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How they actually feel.
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We're talking about what it takes to rebuild an identity that isn't just a job title or a role, and how to find your way back to life with purpose, not just productivity.
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Joining me today is Lauren Fine, someone who works with people navigating this exact terror, helping them untangle the story they've been telling themselves from the truth underneath.
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Hi, Lauren.
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Thank you so much for giving us your time today.
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How are you?
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I'm great.
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Thank you so much for having me today.
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And um before we begin, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
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Well, uh I am a physician.
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I practice internal medicine, allergy immunology, uh, and I'm a medical educator.
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I teach medical students, and um I'm a mother, a wife, uh, an innovator.
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I'm always coming up with ideas.
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I love writing, uh cooking, uh, exercise, uh, you know, you name it, uh, travel.
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So um I have a lot of things that I have interest in, and I think that's has a lot to do with the topic that uh we'll be discussing today.
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Absolutely.
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That's very inspiring.
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And I think you're the right person to talk about what burnout and rebuilding identity might feel like.
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I'm I'm really looking forward to the conversation we'll be having.
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Uh say Lauren, I want to begin with a question about burnout itself.
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When people think about burnout, they often picture someone who can't get out of bed or who's completely falling apart at work.
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But you talk about high-functioning burnout, the kind that's quiet, that's almost invisible.
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So, what does that actually look like?
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And why do so many people miss it in themselves?
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High functioning burnout to me is not necessarily, like you said, not necessarily just completely disconnecting from uh what you do and inability to function or or do what you need to do.
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It's losing up your connection with what makes you feel like you have a purpose.
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And uh I think that a lot of people, you know, that play multiple roles, uh, whether it's you know, husband, wife, mother, father, uh, caregiver to, you know, kids, to their parents, uh and also hold a job, maybe multiple jobs, uh, have hobbies and things that they want to make them feel, you know, happy and fulfilled.
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It's very hard to juggle it all.
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And for those of us who are high achievers and want to do everything extremely well, and also who are maybe rewarded or feel motivated by others acknowledging us and and giving us uh praise for what we've done.
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I think that we tend to try to do the best that we can do.
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And it I think that the the focus turns from a passion and what makes you happy, which was probably your initial intent in doing what you were doing, which whatever it was, being a parent, a um a spouse or working in a particular profession, to doing the best you can and pleasing others.
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And while that's important, we don't necessarily allow ourselves to be rewarded.
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Absolutely.
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I really love the uh key definition of burnout that you gave about how it actually means disconnecting from your sense of purpose because that's so true.
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I feel like people uh often look at burnout as this physical incapability to do anything or be struggling to get out of bed, and we don't we don't acknowledge that it might be something quieter, it might be something that makes you lose meaning and purpose in your life quietly.
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Uh so I I completely agree with that.
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Um, so Lauren, you've also mentioned that a lot of high-functioning burnout comes from tying our identity too tightly to our roles, to to what we do rather than who we are.
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What do you think drives this in the first place?
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How do we end up here without even realizing it?
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Well, to be honest, I think it starts with our kids and our childhood when people ask us what we want to be when we grow up.
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People don't ask us what we want to do.
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Uh and I think that that that is the first place that we learn that when you get older, there is something that you are.
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And what you are is also what you do, and they don't necessarily have a separation.
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So I I think that that is the first place that it happens.
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Um, you know, as we get involved in a particular career, I think we also tend to put so much investment into it.
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Uh, we go to school, you know, most people, at least in the United States, go to uh undergrad or community college.
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Now it's usually not enough if you want to be a you know high um ranking professional to just do college.
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Now we have to do graduate school to be a professional and an expert in a certain area, and often some sort of fellowship or internship or something beyond that.
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So uh I I think that we have as a society unfortunately turned things into um who we are rather than something we do.
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Absolutely.
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I think that's so important and especially the childhood part because we don't realize it, right?
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It's become such an it's become such a natural kind of uh it's been incorporated so naturally into our lives.
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People often ask, what do you want to do when you grow up?
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What do you want to be when you grow up, without realizing what it might kind of what it might what it indicates and what people might um take from it?
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So I I think that's a wonderful insight.
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Uh so but Lauren, if we bring this into everyday life for someone who's stretched thin, juggling responsibilities and feeling and just feeling like they're going through the emotions.
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How does this quiet burnout actually show up?
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What are these small, very easy to miss steps that something's off?
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Uh I think being easily distracted and not really being able to focus on what you need to do, uh, thinking about what you'd rather be doing is a big sign.
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Um, not wanting to do it, just you know, waking up, like you said, it's not that I can't wake up and get out of bed.
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It's that I wake up and I think, I really don't want to go, I really don't want to do this.
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Um and not being able to take something positive out of what you're doing.
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I think that when we are uh, you know, for me as a physician, uh, if I'm seeing patients, definitely there could be difficult days, difficult times, difficult interactions.
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But I try in every interaction to bring something positive to it, uh, whether it's a relationship that I develop or something that I can do for my patients or some combination of those.
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And if I begin to lose that connection and that ability to accomplish that and feel good because I'm doing it, not just do it because it's the right thing to do, that to me would be an indication of burnout.
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I also feel like that would give you a sense of purpose, right?
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It makes you feel like you're kind of contributing to something and making a difference, which I feel is so important for living a more fulfilled life and for actually loving what you what you do, which um, as you mentioned, if you're burnt out, you're just not gonna feel like doing anything or you're not going to feel or you're not gonna feel excited or curious about your work and what you do.
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So uh I completely agree with you, Lauren.
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Uh you also use something called the fact versus story framework to help people separate what's actu what's actually happening from the meaning that they're layering on top of it.
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Can you walk us through how that works and how it helps someone who's stuck in a hot season?
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Yeah, so I think with you know, with anything, if we just imagine that a camera was on that moment or on our life recording things, uh, and then we ask ourselves to explain what we're feeling.
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Probably what we're feeling and what that camera would show are not the same.
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Um, so for example, if I am feeling burnt out and I say, gosh, I'm really feeling burnt out, a camera cannot accomplish capturing that the way that it that it's said, because burnout is a description of some constellation of actions uh or experiences.
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So, you know, when we are, you know feeling like we're burnt out and saying that, we have to stop and say, okay, that's a story, and the story might be true.
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I'm not saying that a story is fiction, it may be true, but how do we describe that?
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How do we share with someone else with facts?
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Like I'm not feeling uh connected, and it's showing that's another story, actually.
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And how do you describe that?
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I'm not responding to other people in a way that makes me feel like I'm in uh you know, in real time with them.
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I'm thinking about other things when I'm having a conversation.
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I ask them to repeat themselves often because I'm not really in the conversation.
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Um it could be that I don't want to get out of out of bed in the morning.
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I do, but I just don't want to go to work.
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It's all of those are facts, you know, that that that is a struggle that you're having in the morning, or that's a struggle you're having with communication, or you know, you're not leaving work in a good mood.
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That could be a fact as well, right?
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That you're not happy is more of a story.
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But how does that not being happy show?
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Because you're not in a good mood, because you're cranky with your staff that you work with, or your colleagues, or your family.
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So if we stop and separate the facts that describe our story and go, okay, are all of these things true?
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Um, then maybe the story is true.
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But a lot of times we tell ourselves a story like, I'm not gonna have a good day today.
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Today's gonna be terrible.
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Okay, well, we can't tell the future, first of all.
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Maybe today started out not great, and maybe we have facts to support that, but what is going to support that today is going to be a terrible day?
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So, you know, if we don't have facts to support that, we have to get rid of that story and move forward with just the facts that we have.
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Absolutely.
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I completely agree with you.
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I feel like um there's a difference between an objective reality or these situations that keep happening to us and what we make of it.
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And oftentimes you mistake what me, we make of it as the as the gospel truth, like this is what it is.
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Instead of being able to feel those things and also acknowledge that those are feelings and those are appraisals that you've made up, not necessarily a reality.
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Uh, I feel like that can offer so much insight and so much under understanding about the things happening with us, to us, or around us.
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Um you also talk about ikigay, which is the idea of finding purpose beyond just getting through the day.
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For someone who's been in survival mood for a for a while, how do they even begin to reconnect with purpose when everything feels like it's about keeping up?
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For someone who wants, for a beginner who wants to start finding purpose, how how may they do so?
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That's such a great question.
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So, Ikigai is you know, what you love, what you do well, what you can get paid for, and what the world needs.
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It's the intersection of all four of those.
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And uh, you know, I think that ikigigai sometimes is explained as like this ideal, you know, being like I am all of those things at once, and my life is perfect.
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Well, I have news for you.
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Uh, Ikigai changes throughout our life.
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It can change across a week, across a month, even a day.
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Um, and we can have many different ikigys.
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So we can have different sense of purpose at work, a different sense of purpose at home, a different sense of purpose in a hobby that we have.
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So for that person who's out there trying to figure out how where do I make my first step, first of all, baby steps are huge.
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You know, if you take a little tiny something and figure out what is the icky guy around this part of my life, this little tiny thing, whether it's an hour that you spend, you know, for yourself once a week, you know, I'm not expecting, and I don't think anybody's expecting to all of a sudden find an hour a day when you didn't have any extra time.
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But can you carve out a little bit of time to do something that makes you feel like you have a purpose for yourself, for a family member, for somebody in need, it doesn't really matter.
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It's just that you have a purpose.
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And the other thing that's really important to recognize is you don't have to fulfill all four parts of that iki guy.
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For example, it doesn't have to be something that you get paid for.
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That's the ideal iky guy, a sense of purpose in life, because we have to make an income, we have to support ourselves.
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But if we're talking about a little tiny iky guy that we have that just gives us that sense of being and importance for some reason, and whatever that reason is, that's up to the individual.
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It doesn't have to be something you get paid for.
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What you get paid for, it might be the appreciation that someone else gives to you and not necessarily monetary.
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So uh I would say just find that one little thing, that hobby that you used to have that you want to, you know, revive and bring back, or something new you want to try, or again, um, doing just something kind for someone else can be a, you know, one of those little baby icky guys.
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And I think that getting something back for that is uh so fulfilling that it will then I think feed into either another one or allowing that one to grow and evolve.
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Absolutely.
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That's that's a beautiful answer.
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And uh I I I really do agree with you because even when people um learn about the concept of ikiga, and I feel like there's this mindset of all or nothing, but even when you begin, like this must check all the four boxes, or it's not something that's going to help me.
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But I uh I think the idea of starting with these tiny inky guys of maybe just checking two boxes or one box at a time can also be really helpful because um because at this stage, especially for someone who's been key just keeping up and just surviving this entire time, just making an income, it can be so refreshing and so rewarding to kind of have a little a little activity that makes you feel like you have a purpose.
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Um, so I that's a beautiful idea.
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And Don, if if there was one thing that you wanted a listener to take away from this conversation today, it could be like a message or advice or whatever, what would that be?
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Oh, I I want to go back to the idea of fact versus story, uh, and just reiterate that whenever something is upsetting us, uh, whenever we feel like somebody is not responding to a text or an email and we're making it stories that they don't want to talk to us, that they're upset with us, or we did something wrong, to stop and just state the facts.
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What do we know?
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And don't overreact to things, slow down.
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Because if you go over the facts, it actually slows down our emotions, slows down our reactions.
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Um, and I'm a life coach and I love to you know use that kind of technique to help people walk through what's really happening in their life uh and how they're responding to things and how they can change.
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So I I highly recommend writing down the facts on a piece of paper and just looking at it and imagining what the camera would have captured instead of you know what's in their imagination.
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Yeah, I I I love that you um I love that this is the thing that you decided to retreat and kind of send to our listeners because it's so important for your mental well-being.
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People get so overwhelmed because they really do start to believe that what they make of the situation is what it is.
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And be able to separate what's actually happening from what you think is happening can be so, so rewarding.
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Uh, and uh thank you so much for sharing that, Lauren.
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And thank you so much for giving us your time today.
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And if there's a listener who feels particularly inspired by our conversation today, wants to listen more about you or want to connect with your work, where can they find you?
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Uh first they can find me at uh laurenfind.com.
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It's l-a-u-r-en-n, f like frank, i-n-e dot com.
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Uh, and also I'm on Substack under permission to change.
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Uh, so it's uh permission underscore to T O underscore change.
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Okay, okay.
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Thank you so much for sharing that, Lauren.
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Uh, thank you for being here and for having this conversation with us.
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And to everyone listening, wherever you are tonight or today, I hope you did one thing with you.
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You are not the sum of what you product produce.
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You're allowed to rest a little question the story, and you're allowed to want more purpose than just making it through.
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There's a lot of wisdom, a lot of power in reclaiming that.
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Take care of yourself, and I'll see you next time on Healthy Mind, Healthy Life.
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Thank you.