#106 | 5 Media-Based Strategies to Teach LGBTQ Ally Kids Consent, Courage & Bodily Autonomy

Host
00:00:05
Welcome to Just Breathe.

Host
00:00:07
I am so happy you are here with me today.

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00:00:11
I am really excited to bring you today's guest just had such a fascinating conversation with her about a topic that we really haven't discussed yet on the podcast and one that we actually discussed several different topics that really relate to and apply to our kids and so many things that are going on today.

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00:00:38
So I am thrilled thrilled to bring Michelle Meek to you.

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She is a writer, a filmmaker, a professor and an entrepreneur.

Host
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She has most recently authored the book called Consent Culture and Teen Films which was just published in April of this year and is FYI really really fascinating read so I highly recommend it.

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There will be links in the show notes for you to check this out.

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She's also published several other books including Independent Female Filmmakers and the Mastermind Failure Club.

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She presented a TEDx talk why we're Confused about Rewriting Our Stories of Seduction and has written for Ms.

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Magazine, Script Magazine Entrepreneur, the Good Men Project, Salon.com and others.

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She has also directed numerous award winning short films including Imagine Cole 37 and Red Sneakers and she worked as an associate producer on the documentary feature Salvage which premiered at the SXSW south by Southwest Film Festival.

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She has several creative projects in the works including a short film, Bay Creek Tennis Camp, a feature screenplay, Cruisin and a documentary, the Impermanence of Everything.

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She is a tenure track assistant professor in the Communication Studies department at Bridgewater State University where she teaches filmmaking, screenwriting, film studies, digital media, gender studies and life design.

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I am really, really thrilled for you to listen in on this conversation.

Host
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We just get into all of these topics, the consent culture topic, the representation in film and media, as well as talking in depth about her short film which really, really digs into gender in sports and inclusivity.

Host
00:02:46
So without further ado, I bring you Dr.

Host
00:02:49
Michelle Me.

Heather Hester
00:03:03
Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting, your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Heather Hester
00:03:15
My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.

Heather Hester
00:03:20
I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Heather Hester
00:03:30
Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.

Heather Hester
00:03:47
Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment, moment in time, you are not alone.

Host
00:04:04
Michelle, welcome to the show.

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I'm so happy that you are here.

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This has been a.

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An interview that has been long time coming for us, and I'm just delighted that we finally get to have this really important conversation about several really, really amazing topics.

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And I'm really excited to learn from you today.

Host
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So let's just start off with letting everyone know a little bit about who you are and how you got into this really interesting work that you do.

Michelle Meek
00:04:37
Sure.

Michelle Meek
00:04:37
So my name is Michelle Meek, and I am a PhD and a professor who studies consent, gender, and sexuality and youth.

Michelle Meek
00:04:46
I recently published the book Consent Culture and Teen Films, Adolescent Sexuality in US Movies.

Michelle Meek
00:04:53
And I've also written numerous articles about gender, sexuality, and youth@miss magazine, salon.com and other outlets.

Michelle Meek
00:05:04
And I am working.

Michelle Meek
00:05:05
I'm also a filmmaker and I'm working on a short film right now called Bay Creek Tennis Camp, and it's about gender, sports, and inclusivity for youth.

Host
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Okay, that just tees up so much.

Michelle Meek
00:05:19
Right?

Host
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So many questions already.

Host
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This is so amazing.

Host
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So what brought you into doing this type of work?

Host
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Is this something that you were always interested in, or did you kind of start in one place as a professor and a filmmaker and just over time really start diving into these more in depth and timely issues?

Michelle Meek
00:05:44
I think I've always, you know, when you look back on your career, you sort of realize, oh, there is a thread that makes sense, actually.

Michelle Meek
00:05:54
And I've always been interested in sexuality, and years and years ago, I worked on a film, I made a short film about masturbation, women in masturbation.

Michelle Meek
00:06:06
So I've always been interested in some of these topics.

Michelle Meek
00:06:09
My interest in consent really came through my studies when I was working on my PhD, and I finished that in 2016, and then pretty much soon after started working on the book that I've recently published.

Michelle Meek
00:06:25
So I've been working in consent research for a decade at this point, which sounds like a long time, and it is a long time.

Michelle Meek
00:06:36
But, you know, I've always kind of gravitated towards sexuality for whatever reason, and I think it's just such a rich terrain for talking about aspects of human nature and relationships and culture and all of that.

Host
00:06:52
Absolutely.

Host
00:06:53
Well, and I imagine a lot, a lot of what you've seen in your work is, and maybe even the point of your work is normalizing something that is so very human and has been a long time.

Host
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Just a taboo subject.

Host
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Right.

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And so many different ways.

Host
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And the whole consent conversation is something that really has become such important topic to discuss and to.

Host
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To discuss with our kids.

Host
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Certainly wasn't Something that was discussed when I was a teenager.

Host
00:07:26
So I would love to talk about that and talk about your work within, you know, what this consent culture looks like and what we should be.

Host
00:07:37
What, what are the conversations we should be having with our kids?

Michelle Meek
00:07:41
Yeah, I mean, I think that what consent culture really is, is a culture where we prioritize consent in everyday interactions, particularly around sexuality or sex, but in everything.

Michelle Meek
00:07:54
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:07:55
But I think that there's a tendency to oversimplify consent in some of those discourses where we really lay out yes means yes, no means no, here's what consent means, it's informed, it's freely given, it's enthusiastic, etc.

Michelle Meek
00:08:13
But the truth is that when we, and we know this because of our own personal experiences, often that sex in practice can be much more complicated than a simple yes means yes or no means no.

Michelle Meek
00:08:26
And having conversations with our children about how to handle those kinds of negotiations, how to better understand what our boundaries are going into something, or how to navigate when we change our mind, or, you know, the kinds of real world situations that are going to come up when they start having those explorations.

Michelle Meek
00:08:52
I think it's really important to, you know, talk about it before it comes up, ideally so that they aren't in situations that they don't know how to navigate or haven't thought about at all.

Host
00:09:08
Absolutely.

Host
00:09:09
Oh my goodness.

Host
00:09:11
So many things just came to mind as you were saying that and realizing that this is something that many may wait until, you know, early high school to have these conversations, which in reality we should really be having these conversations a lot earlier.

Host
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Right.

Host
00:09:30
So what can that look like, for instance?

Host
00:09:35
And I think too kind of the second piece of that is I think a lot of people are nervous to talk about it because it is thought to be this big conversation.

Host
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Right.

Host
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Like one big conversation, instead of having these smaller, like taking the small opportunities to just address one little thing.

Host
00:09:51
And so I'm wondering, you know, what your recommendation would be or what you've kind of realized works for different age groups.

Host
00:10:03
Like when you're talking to your 10 year old as opposed to your 13 year old, as opposed to your 18 year old.

Michelle Meek
00:10:09
Right, right.

Michelle Meek
00:10:10
I mean, in general, I do really firmly believe that these conversations have to happen a lot younger than most people are comfortable having them.

Michelle Meek
00:10:18
And that's because if we actually want to protect children against sexual, childhood, sexual abuse, then they need to know what that is.

Michelle Meek
00:10:28
And they need to know that they have personal boundaries and, you know, bodily autonomy and all of that.

Michelle Meek
00:10:36
And they need to know that you're a safe person to report to if something were to happen.

Michelle Meek
00:10:40
So I think that it's really on us as parents to have those conversations because frankly, the schools won't and can't because of the.

Michelle Meek
00:10:50
Really, even in the most liberal of states, you know, I live in Rhode island, they're still not having those conversations really in elementary school because there's always going to be some parents who are just deeply uncomfortable with that.

Michelle Meek
00:11:05
And so the schools kind of stay out of it.

Michelle Meek
00:11:07
And it's really on parents.

Michelle Meek
00:11:08
I mean, one thing that I think can be done is, you know, at an early stage you can offer some books.

Michelle Meek
00:11:16
There are lots of.

Michelle Meek
00:11:17
I mean, I remember there's some new ones I haven't read yet, but I know that I had liked the books It's All Perfectly Normal, which was a book for younger kids to kind of learn about sex and sexuality and gender.

Michelle Meek
00:11:34
And I think that that was one that I thought was good.

Michelle Meek
00:11:37
I remember, you know, just one of my kids wanted to take it to school in first grade and I was like, you can't take that book to school.

Michelle Meek
00:11:46
They're like, why not?

Michelle Meek
00:11:48
It's like, oh, yeah, you don't, you don't know why not.

Host
00:11:51
Right.

Host
00:11:52
But.

Michelle Meek
00:11:54
And then I think that really their fear sometimes is that by giving children some information that they're going to like run out and do it.

Michelle Meek
00:12:04
And that's really not.

Michelle Meek
00:12:06
There's no evidence that shows that that's true.

Michelle Meek
00:12:09
And it really is much more that being informed empowers young people to understand.

Michelle Meek
00:12:16
And by being the one as a parent to start that conversation, you're really signaling that you are into this conversation.

Michelle Meek
00:12:25
You're open to questions.

Michelle Meek
00:12:27
You're a safe person to have these kinds of conversations and questions with.

Michelle Meek
00:12:31
And that is really the most important because if you don't bring it up until they're 15, like, a, it's way too late.

Michelle Meek
00:12:38
They've already probably learned everything from the Internet and their friends and who knows if it's accurate.

Michelle Meek
00:12:42
And B, they're not going to be comfortable talking to you at that point because you haven't set a precedent of having those kinds of conversations.

Host
00:12:49
Exactly, exactly.

Host
00:12:51
And when you start these conversations when they're very young, they're not about sex.

Host
00:12:59
Yeah, right.

Host
00:13:00
They're about, I mean, all of the things that you named, which I just want to kind of highlight because I think that is a very important point, that you're not talking about the act of sex to your six year old.

Host
00:13:14
You are talking about their body.

Host
00:13:17
Right.

Host
00:13:17
Body positivity.

Host
00:13:18
Protecting their space, knowing what it feels like when somebody is coming into their space, you know, knowing that that's okay to protect their space.

Host
00:13:30
So it's, you know, conversations like that that are very much just, I think, more empowering and teaching kids how to set boundaries, which.

Host
00:13:42
So valuable.

Michelle Meek
00:13:43
I think that's one of the positive things that has come out of the consent culture, really, is that there is more level of comfort of teaching younger people about consent at an earlier age in that there's just more awareness.

Michelle Meek
00:13:56
For example, you know, you don't have to force your kids to kiss their grandparents or their uncle or their whoever.

Michelle Meek
00:14:03
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:14:03
You know, recognizing that maybe they just want to shake hands or fist bump or wave, and recognizing their boundary in that moment is a way of teaching them that what they want or don't want matters.

Michelle Meek
00:14:20
And then they can also be taught that, you know, they can't just run and hug a friend or, you know, touch someone else without making sure that that's something that has been approved by or is welcomed by the other person.

Michelle Meek
00:14:36
So, you know, those kinds of things can be taught at a very young age.

Host
00:14:41
They can.

Host
00:14:41
And I think just knowing that.

Host
00:14:43
Right.

Host
00:14:43
This is one of those things that you don't know until you know and you don't realize how to teach it, actually, how to apply it to your own life and then how to teach it.

Host
00:14:55
Because this is something that is.

Host
00:14:57
I would say, I venture a guess that many from our generation did not grow up knowing how to do or how to teach.

Host
00:15:07
Absolutely.

Michelle Meek
00:15:08
I mean, I remember, like, living in a building in New York City, and there was a doorman who used to run and kiss me, hug and kiss me every time I walked by.

Michelle Meek
00:15:18
And I used to try to go in other entrances to avoid this man.

Michelle Meek
00:15:22
And, you know, my family all knew that this happened, and they just.

Michelle Meek
00:15:26
Nobody thought that he deserved a talking to over this or that he should be put in his place or that it was just, like a fact that we lived with.

Michelle Meek
00:15:37
It was just.

Michelle Meek
00:15:38
He's inappropriate.

Michelle Meek
00:15:40
Yeah.

Michelle Meek
00:15:40
But that's life.

Michelle Meek
00:15:42
And I think we have a much different idea now.

Michelle Meek
00:15:45
We would say, no, that's inappropriate, and don't do it again.

Michelle Meek
00:15:48
Or I'm like.

Michelle Meek
00:15:49
Or you need to be reported, you know?

Host
00:15:52
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:15:52
So that's.

Michelle Meek
00:15:53
I feel like there have been some positive changes there, for sure.

Host
00:15:57
Absolutely.

Host
00:15:57
I mean, I think a ton of empowerment, specifically for women, but for men as well.

Host
00:16:04
So, you know, and thinking about, especially our kids who are in the LGBTQ+ community, really talking about consent, boundaries, and empowerment, because that Looks different there.

Michelle Meek
00:16:19
Absolutely.

Michelle Meek
00:16:20
I mean, in some ways it's different and in some ways it's the same.

Michelle Meek
00:16:22
I think one of the things that came up a lot in the movies that I was watching for my book, Consent Culture and teen films who are queer and questioning youth in particular, is that they're navigating situations where they're sometimes not sure of what their sexual desires and preferences are.

Michelle Meek
00:16:40
And so they can be in a situation where they're, quote, consenting, but they actually don't have the desire.

Michelle Meek
00:16:47
So they might think, I want to be heterosexual.

Michelle Meek
00:16:50
So I'm going to force myself into this encounter that I actually don't have any desire for.

Michelle Meek
00:16:55
And that can be a problematic kind of situation, obviously.

Michelle Meek
00:17:01
And again, the more we kind of lay the groundwork of being accepting, then they don't have to go through unpleasant encounters where they're forcing themselves into some sexuality that is not, you know, in their, in their world.

Michelle Meek
00:17:18
So.

Host
00:17:20
Right.

Host
00:17:22
Oh my goodness, yes.

Host
00:17:23
There's lots of.

Host
00:17:24
It's woven through this very, very much.

Host
00:17:27
And I think just an incredibly interesting conversation to continue.

Host
00:17:34
And I do highly recommend that everyone reads this book.

Host
00:17:40
I think it is just phenomenal, thought provoking.

Host
00:17:43
So I appreciate all of the work that you did to really research this and to write something that there really isn't anything out there like it.

Host
00:17:55
And so thank you.

Host
00:17:57
Thank you so much.

Host
00:17:57
And it's an important conversation and, you know, again, gives everyone permission to have those conversations with their kids, which is really, really great.

Host
00:18:08
And kind of on top of that, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, I have teenagers, is it too late?

Host
00:18:14
No, it's not too late.

Host
00:18:15
It's just, it's never too late.

Host
00:18:18
It's just going to be a little bit more uncomfortable to start at this point.

Host
00:18:21
But it's never too late.

Host
00:18:22
And so.

Host
00:18:23
And I would love to know your thoughts on that as well.

Michelle Meek
00:18:26
But yeah, one of the things that I talk a lot about and not so much in the book, but in general, I think the book becomes kind of a leaping pad or a launch pad for conversations that you could have with your teenagers about gender, sex, sexuality, consent, relationships, you know, friendships.

Michelle Meek
00:18:50
And one of the things I think is under explored is the idea of watching media together and then using that as a way of having conversations.

Michelle Meek
00:19:02
I would say, especially with teenagers who are going to be more interested in maintaining some privacy around their life and relationship relationships, I would say that you're watching media together and having conversations about those characters and the decisions that they're Making and the situations that they get themselves in is just a really great way of kind of making it abstract enough that it doesn't feel like I'm talking about you and the decisions you're making about your relationship or sometimes just as awkward.

Michelle Meek
00:19:36
Me and the decisions I've made about my relationships.

Michelle Meek
00:19:40
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:19:41
But, you know, it's about these characters.

Michelle Meek
00:19:44
And it kind of was an epiphany for me at some point when I was watching the sandlot with one of my kids and I was so uncomfortable.

Michelle Meek
00:19:53
They were really young.

Michelle Meek
00:19:54
I think they were only 7 years old or something, maybe a little older, but not old.

Michelle Meek
00:19:59
And there was that scene where the lifeguard, the boy pretends to drown so that the lifeguard will give him mouth to mouth.

Michelle Meek
00:20:08
And I was.

Michelle Meek
00:20:09
I wanted to leave.

Michelle Meek
00:20:10
I literally whispered to be like, let's leave, you know, and.

Michelle Meek
00:20:14
But the.

Michelle Meek
00:20:15
But they're enjoying the film and of course we're not leaving.

Michelle Meek
00:20:17
So.

Michelle Meek
00:20:18
But I realized, wait, this is an opportunity for me to have a conversation after the fact about why this made me so uncomfortable, why would I think this Voyage did was wrong, and how the film itself is portraying something as good that is not good.

Michelle Meek
00:20:33
And it becomes not only a lesson in sort of consent, but also a lesson in media literacy, because you're really teaching them.

Michelle Meek
00:20:41
Just because a movie shows it is okay doesn't mean it's okay.

Host
00:20:45
Right?

Host
00:20:46
Right.

Host
00:20:47
Oh, my goodness, yes.

Host
00:20:48
I appreciate you saying that.

Host
00:20:50
And I.

Host
00:20:51
That's a perfect transition into really talking about this idea of, you know, what we see in media and the impact on us and shaping our thoughts and shaping, you know, how we see the world and how we make decisions, so many different things.

Host
00:21:09
But I think one thing that you and I were talking about before is having this represent representation.

Host
00:21:15
And so, you know, I think when I think about that, you know, kind of specifically, I'm talking about LGBTQ + representation.

Host
00:21:23
But even, you know, to.

Host
00:21:25
To your point, this idea of really learning what consent means.

Host
00:21:30
Right.

Host
00:21:31
And why certain actions are right and wrong and allowing that to be the way that you have discussions, which I loved the wonderful suggestion.

Michelle Meek
00:21:41
Absolutely.

Michelle Meek
00:21:42
I mean, I think it's such kind of low hanging fruit, right?

Michelle Meek
00:21:46
It's right there.

Michelle Meek
00:21:47
There's so much media.

Michelle Meek
00:21:48
And the thing that I think is beautiful about it is you're not trying to find some brilliant example of the way to live your life.

Michelle Meek
00:21:55
You can watch media that, you know, you can criticize together.

Michelle Meek
00:22:02
And I think it can be an opportunity to kind of approach it with almost like an appreciative inquiry, kind of mindset where you're not coming in it.

Michelle Meek
00:22:10
Like I'm going to teach you all about what I think about this show.

Michelle Meek
00:22:13
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:22:14
But rather what did you think about that character making that decision?

Michelle Meek
00:22:19
Or you know, what did you think about their relationship?

Michelle Meek
00:22:22
Or how do you think about how they felt about it?

Michelle Meek
00:22:25
Because, you know, or what did it make you feel when we watched that part?

Michelle Meek
00:22:29
Or because then you really can a learn something and then have a conversation that's really coming at it at the sort of starting where you are with your kid or kids.

Michelle Meek
00:22:43
And I think that can be a best approach as well.

Host
00:22:46
Absolutely.

Host
00:22:47
Oh my goodness, yes.

Host
00:22:49
I mean I just think of the different conversations we've had about, you know, whether it's movies or you know, even things.

Host
00:22:58
And this is going to sound so silly, but I think it's a great conversation starter is things you see on Tick Tock.

Host
00:23:03
Right?

Host
00:23:03
I mean that is everybody's for you page is different.

Host
00:23:07
And so things that pop up it.

Host
00:23:09
I mean we've had some really fascinating conversations about well, you know, what do you think about that and why do you think that that might be true or not true or you know, whatever it might be.

Host
00:23:23
But kind of circling back a little bit to the idea of representation in media, whether it's, you know, film or books or you know, or TikTok.

Host
00:23:41
What do you see as the value of being able to see yourself in media?

Michelle Meek
00:23:50
I mean there's so many people who have spoken specifically about this how important it is to kind of see yourself represented in the media that you watch.

Michelle Meek
00:24:02
It's just so affirming and normalizing kind of like you said.

Michelle Meek
00:24:08
So one of the things that I've found a little bit disappointing about some of the teen films recently that feature queer protagonists is that although it is coming from a pro queer point of view, for sure, a film like Love Simon, for instance, I'll use.

Michelle Meek
00:24:30
Obviously this is meant to be an affirming story, but at the same time like they make his coming out a really, really, really big deal and you know, a big secret that he tries to change and keeps from himself and his family and his friends for years and years.

Michelle Meek
00:24:52
And to me there's something, you know, I have this section in the book that it's still queer to be queer.

Michelle Meek
00:24:59
You know, like the idea is that when is it going to just be normal that someone is announcing that their queer?

Michelle Meek
00:25:06
Why do they even have to announce it?

Michelle Meek
00:25:08
And I think so.

Michelle Meek
00:25:11
I think we were a little bit behind and one of the reasons I think that happens is because the people who are making media today are adults.

Michelle Meek
00:25:20
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:25:22
Often kind of thinking about their own youth, which happened probably 20 or more years ago.

Michelle Meek
00:25:30
And so, you know, maybe at least 10, 15.

Michelle Meek
00:25:33
And so we almost are like decades behind, often in terms of the media that we're seeing and what actually young people experience.

Michelle Meek
00:25:41
Experience today.

Michelle Meek
00:25:43
And then, you know, with.

Michelle Meek
00:25:44
With trans teens or gender diverse teens, I would say it's.

Michelle Meek
00:25:49
There's still not a lot in terms of the teen film genre.

Michelle Meek
00:25:53
You know, there was the recent film Anything's Possible, which I'm glad they made, but really was one of the most saccharine movies I've ever seen.

Michelle Meek
00:26:03
Like, one of my kids and I watched it and we're like, we still want to like this movie, but wow, right?

Michelle Meek
00:26:11
So over the top, like, so great.

Michelle Meek
00:26:14
And you know, and then on the other hand, you have films like Three Generations, which really kind of present being a trans youth as just such a tortured journey.

Michelle Meek
00:26:25
And not to say that there's not difficulties, but again, there's just few films that are really representing it in.

Michelle Meek
00:26:32
In a way that feels very affirming.

Michelle Meek
00:26:35
I would say one of the best films, although it's not really for younger audiences, is Boy Meets Girl, which is about a trans girl who's kind of exploring, you know, sexuality and relationships.

Michelle Meek
00:26:49
And I really love that movie.

Michelle Meek
00:26:50
But, you know, it's.

Michelle Meek
00:26:51
It has nudity in it and it's.

Michelle Meek
00:26:53
I think it's probably rated R.

Michelle Meek
00:26:55
So I, you know, that's the thing is that there's just not a lot of portraits like that for younger audiences yet.

Host
00:27:04
Right, right.

Host
00:27:05
There really aren't.

Host
00:27:07
And that is so interesting that you brought up love, Simon, because I was thinking that in my head, I so wanted to love that.

Host
00:27:12
And I was like, there is nothing about this that is realistic.

Host
00:27:20
Yeah, I think to the overall experience, I think.

Host
00:27:24
And I love your.

Host
00:27:25
The point that you made too, which is, you know, what are.

Host
00:27:28
We're working toward this not being a discussion.

Michelle Meek
00:27:32
Right, right.

Host
00:27:33
Just is.

Host
00:27:34
It just is.

Host
00:27:35
And so, yeah, that is such a lovely point alongside this.

Host
00:27:40
But yes, there is, there is some work that needs to be done for sure.

Host
00:27:45
And maybe we need, we need our teenagers to start making some.

Michelle Meek
00:27:49
Right, exactly.

Michelle Meek
00:27:50
I mean, I think it's one of the fundamental problems with, you know, movies and television about youth.

Michelle Meek
00:27:57
They don't make it.

Michelle Meek
00:27:58
They're often not even in it.

Michelle Meek
00:27:59
It's acted by adults.

Michelle Meek
00:28:01
Yes, it's made by adults and often it's even for adults.

Michelle Meek
00:28:06
Like I said, you know, a lot of these shows, even the shows about youth today, education, Heartbreak High, a lot of them are rated, you know, not all, but many of them are rated TV mature.

Michelle Meek
00:28:19
And so, you know, that ends up being a parent's decision on if you're comfortable watching more mature content with your, your children.

Michelle Meek
00:28:28
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:28:29
And how you feel about that.

Michelle Meek
00:28:31
And that's a personal decision.

Michelle Meek
00:28:33
Again, I don't think that watching something like that makes it so that you're going to go out and do all of these things.

Michelle Meek
00:28:39
It's.

Michelle Meek
00:28:39
You're more informed, you have mixed thoughts about it.

Michelle Meek
00:28:42
We're not blame slates to be written on.

Michelle Meek
00:28:45
Like, even youth have opinions about things, right?

Michelle Meek
00:28:48
They're watching it for sure.

Host
00:28:50
Oh, yeah.

Host
00:28:50
Yes, they do.

Host
00:28:51
They have lots.

Michelle Meek
00:28:53
Exactly.

Michelle Meek
00:28:55
So we shouldn't underestimate them either.

Host
00:28:58
Right.

Host
00:28:59
Well, and I think that is an excellent point that by them being exposed to, you know, any type of queer media, whatever it is, film, book, whatever, or any of these topics for that matter, it is going.

Host
00:29:20
It's a form of education and being educated and being knowledgeable is a form of empowerment.

Host
00:29:27
And it's also, especially for our older teens, this is the time when they are supposed to start differentiating from us and becoming independent human beings.

Host
00:29:39
So it's actually a really good thing when they don't agree with everything that we say because A, that allows for great conversations and, and B, when we have these conversations, it lets them know that this is okay.

Host
00:29:55
It's okay for me to have my own ideas because I am my own human being.

Host
00:30:00
So there's a lot of, I think, value different valuable pieces in there.

Host
00:30:04
But I'm not sure where I was going with that.

Michelle Meek
00:30:07
But anyway, yeah, I think it's true though.

Michelle Meek
00:30:10
I mean, there's lots of times when I, whether it's with students or my own kids and watched films and there's a lot of.

Michelle Meek
00:30:16
There can be different opinions about different aspects of it and I think that's okay.

Michelle Meek
00:30:21
Like, we're all kind of at different levels of experience.

Michelle Meek
00:30:25
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:30:25
And we're kind of responding to that while we watch.

Michelle Meek
00:30:30
So that's informing our opinions about the kinds of things that we're seeing.

Michelle Meek
00:30:35
And that doesn't mean that because I've had more experience, I'm an expert, sometimes it gives me a bias that, you know, that a younger person might not have.

Michelle Meek
00:30:45
You never know.

Host
00:30:46
Absolutely.

Host
00:30:47
Oh, my goodness.

Host
00:30:48
Yes.

Host
00:30:49
I think it is often very interesting to see how our kids see things to, you know, or hear how they see things, because it is something that we're, you know, we just naturally do have are more set in our opinions or just because we're older and we have more life experience.

Host
00:31:08
Right.

Host
00:31:08
So it's when you hear things that you're like, oh, I never even thought of it that way, or I've never looked at it that way.

Host
00:31:15
I think it's quite fascinating.

Michelle Meek
00:31:17
I think it's so important for us as adults to really think of ourselves as still wanting to learn from younger people.

Michelle Meek
00:31:27
I, I know that it's such a hard reframe, but I've noticed this from teaching too, because as a teacher I feel like the reason I like teaching is because I like learning.

Michelle Meek
00:31:37
And you know, there's lots of times when a student creates something or does something or write something or says something that makes me think about something in a new way.

Michelle Meek
00:31:47
And that's really my favorite experience to have.

Michelle Meek
00:31:50
You know, I mean, my second favorite is to give them that experience where they kind of have that light bulb.

Michelle Meek
00:31:55
But I like the light bulb too.

Michelle Meek
00:31:57
Right?

Michelle Meek
00:31:57
Yes.

Michelle Meek
00:31:58
And I think that ultimately, you know, it is going to be the younger people who push through the next wave.

Michelle Meek
00:32:07
And I feel like, you know, for my generation growing up, like it was felt very transgressive to be bisexual or homosexual.

Michelle Meek
00:32:18
And now I feel like it's more trans, that's less transgressive, aggressive for young people and their families, at least in the community, the sort of more liberal leaning community that I live in.

Michelle Meek
00:32:29
But it's still more transgressive to be kind of gender diverse or trans.

Michelle Meek
00:32:33
And so I think that every generation is pushing kind of a new boundary, so to speak.

Michelle Meek
00:32:39
And, and as adults we could really, it would be wise for us to not come off as like, we know best or this is how this is going to make your life so hard.

Michelle Meek
00:32:52
Like, we don't really know that.

Michelle Meek
00:32:54
Like, we don't know what the world is going to be like in 30 years.

Michelle Meek
00:32:58
And when they're adults.

Michelle Meek
00:33:00
And so, you know, we have to just, I mean, we don't have to, but we're, we're better off if we maintain an openness and, and think instead of, instead of our expectations, expectations about the possibilities and, and know that we're not necessarily the ones designing this future that they are actually.

Host
00:33:21
Absolutely, absolutely.

Host
00:33:23
Oh my goodness.

Host
00:33:23
And I think it's, we have this opportunity to be curious.

Michelle Meek
00:33:28
Right.

Host
00:33:29
And instead of being, you know, close minded or having that idea of like, well, I know everything already and, and you're dumb and you'll, you'll learn.

Host
00:33:42
Right.

Host
00:33:43
Having this like kind of shifting that to being like, well, this Is interesting.

Host
00:33:47
Like, tell me.

Host
00:33:48
I want to know more.

Host
00:33:49
Just because you're asking to learn more doesn't mean that that has to become part of the way you think.

Host
00:33:54
It just broadens your perspective and your knowledge of what is out there, what's going on in the world, which I just think then allows you to be a more compassionate human being.

Host
00:34:08
So there are many benefits.

Michelle Meek
00:34:10
Absolutely.

Michelle Meek
00:34:11
And one of the things I feel like I've realized, especially as a scholar, that you can become an expert in some very narrow field, but really, everything is always changing.

Michelle Meek
00:34:23
And there's more I don't know than I know.

Michelle Meek
00:34:27
And I know that.

Michelle Meek
00:34:30
That's all I know.

Michelle Meek
00:34:33
And so that's where that openness and that humility, I think, comes from, too, which is to say that I don't necessarily always know what's right.

Michelle Meek
00:34:43
I am just doing the best that I can with the information that I have, hoping that I'm making the best choices.

Michelle Meek
00:34:50
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:34:50
As a parent, we're all doing that, I hope.

Michelle Meek
00:34:53
But being open to hearing what your kids are saying to you and trying to see things from their perspective, their world, I think is very important.

Michelle Meek
00:35:04
And sometimes watching media with them is a way of educating yourself, too, about how they're seeing these kinds of things and what their opinions of them are, right?

Host
00:35:17
Oh, my goodness.

Host
00:35:18
Absolutely.

Host
00:35:19
So I'm wondering.

Host
00:35:21
I know you're doing a documentary or working on a documentary right now, and I was, like, looking.

Host
00:35:25
So I'm like, this sounds so familiar to me.

Host
00:35:27
The impermanence of everything.

Host
00:35:29
Is that kind of.

Host
00:35:30
Is this part of the idea that of this documentary that you're creating?

Michelle Meek
00:35:35
So that documentary is a.

Michelle Meek
00:35:37
Is a kind of a longer project, and it's.

Michelle Meek
00:35:39
It's actually totally different than a lot of the other work that I've done.

Michelle Meek
00:35:43
It's really focused on, to some extent, ephemeral art, which is art that doesn't last, which is really all art, and really nothing lasts.

Michelle Meek
00:35:55
It's kind of the premise.

Michelle Meek
00:35:57
So, you know, art that we want to have persists.

Michelle Meek
00:36:01
Like, if you think of ancient Rome.

Michelle Meek
00:36:03
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:36:04
There's all this work being done to kind of prop up all the relics that are there, and yet they're crumbling anyway.

Michelle Meek
00:36:12
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:36:13
Or, you know, paint that.

Michelle Meek
00:36:14
These.

Michelle Meek
00:36:15
These ancient paintings that have been done, and then the paint is fading over time, and there's, you know, and just that.

Michelle Meek
00:36:23
Yeah, that.

Michelle Meek
00:36:23
That change is the only thing that we can be sure of.

Michelle Meek
00:36:28
And impermanence is the only thing we can be sure of.

Host
00:36:32
It is.

Host
00:36:33
It is.

Host
00:36:34
That's one of Connor's tattoos.

Michelle Meek
00:36:35
That was cool.

Host
00:36:38
And I was like, he's funny now.

Host
00:36:41
This, you know, he got it probably four or five years ago.

Host
00:36:43
And he's like, why?

Host
00:36:43
I don't know if I like it.

Host
00:36:44
I'm like, it's just such a great statement.

Host
00:36:47
I mean, you know, it's.

Host
00:36:49
It's lovely.

Host
00:36:50
So it's accurate.

Michelle Meek
00:36:52
Yeah.

Host
00:36:53
No matter what stage of your life you're in.

Host
00:36:55
So I do love that.

Host
00:37:51
And that's so interesting that you're doing that.

Host
00:37:55
So talking about films, I want to make sure we have enough time to talk about your film that you are.

Host
00:38:01
You're making right now.

Host
00:38:03
You're in the process of making this film, correct?

Michelle Meek
00:38:05
Yeah.

Michelle Meek
00:38:05
So it's in post production, which means that it's in its final stages of editing and music and credits and things like that.

Michelle Meek
00:38:13
And I'm just in the stage now of submitting it to film festivals, so I'm hoping to have it start screening either this summer or in the fall.

Host
00:38:23
That is so exciting.

Host
00:38:24
Okay, so let's talk about.

Host
00:38:26
Because there are three big topics.

Michelle Meek
00:38:29
Yes.

Host
00:38:30
So you discuss gender, sports, and inclusivity.

Host
00:38:36
Let's talk about it because I want to learn.

Host
00:38:39
We were talking about before.

Host
00:38:41
I have.

Host
00:38:41
And I think many people who are listening have their, like, their feelings, you know, what we feel, we know what we support.

Host
00:38:49
We just want more information.

Host
00:38:52
So, yeah, I would love to learn from you.

Michelle Meek
00:38:56
Yeah.

Michelle Meek
00:38:56
So, I mean, this really came.

Michelle Meek
00:38:59
You know, ideas come in different forms for different reasons.

Michelle Meek
00:39:04
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:39:05
And for me, this idea first started as just a kid that was struggling with the constant choices having to be made regarding gender.

Michelle Meek
00:39:18
And I've.

Michelle Meek
00:39:19
I've seen this, you know, now that I've become kind of.

Michelle Meek
00:39:22
It's like once the.

Michelle Meek
00:39:24
Once the light bulb goes on, it can't go off, I guess.

Michelle Meek
00:39:27
You know, now that I see it, I can't believe how often we're confronted with a decision about pick, pick a side, pick a side, pick a side.

Michelle Meek
00:39:36
And, you know, we do this from a very, very young age with kids.

Michelle Meek
00:39:41
And so the film is really a kids or family film.

Michelle Meek
00:39:45
And it's about a coach who's kind of done it his way, you know, many years and always divides the kids by gender.

Michelle Meek
00:39:54
And it's about a group of kids who kind of tries to make him see it a different way.

Michelle Meek
00:39:59
I'll leave it at that.

Michelle Meek
00:40:00
Not to give away too much.

Michelle Meek
00:40:01
Okay.

Michelle Meek
00:40:03
But, you know, my.

Michelle Meek
00:40:04
My thoughts on this are that having seen my own kids kind of struggle with constantly having to pick the boys or the girls teams.

Michelle Meek
00:40:14
I just Am not clear why we're still doing that.

Michelle Meek
00:40:19
I know it's why it's not.

Michelle Meek
00:40:20
I know it's the way we've always done it, but it's not really the best way.

Michelle Meek
00:40:26
And it's not only that, not the best way for kids who are gender diverse or trans, but it's not the best way for a lot of kids.

Michelle Meek
00:40:34
And I'll give you an example.

Michelle Meek
00:40:35
So one of my kids does hockey, ice hockey.

Michelle Meek
00:40:38
And at age, you know, 12, the league transitions into U14, where USA Hockey allows them to check in boys hockey, which means that they can physically kind of bump up against each other.

Michelle Meek
00:40:55
And so what this does.

Michelle Meek
00:40:58
So hockey is sort of co ed.

Michelle Meek
00:41:01
Boys hockey is technically co ed.

Michelle Meek
00:41:03
But at this level, really all the girls leave.

Michelle Meek
00:41:07
Almost all the girls leave.

Michelle Meek
00:41:09
And the reason is because they are not comfortable or they're smaller or whatever, but also the smaller boys leave because they too are not comfortable with the rules of checking.

Michelle Meek
00:41:26
I've talked to boys who don't want to play boys lacrosse because it's too violent.

Michelle Meek
00:41:31
So, you know, I think we make the mistake of thinking, oh, this is the most fair system, but it's not.

Michelle Meek
00:41:39
It's just one that was readily convenient for us for many years and now has become a tradition.

Michelle Meek
00:41:46
But we can think of new possibilities if we open our minds.

Host
00:41:52
Absolutely.

Host
00:41:53
I love hearing it from that angle and because that makes so much sense, you know, we all know the big argument that we all hear, right?

Host
00:42:02
Which is it's not fair for boys to be in girls sports.

Host
00:42:06
They don't really care if girls are in boys sports.

Michelle Meek
00:42:08
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:42:09
Nobody really cares about that.

Michelle Meek
00:42:12
He's talking about that.

Host
00:42:13
Yeah, nobody's really talking about that.

Host
00:42:15
But I think, you know, to your point and to.

Host
00:42:18
This is an excellent point that's being glossed over, of course, that we really need to discuss more, which is making sports more accessible for all kids.

Host
00:42:34
Because I think that a lot of kids who stop playing sports that they perhaps played when they were in elementary school or under 12, it's not that they don't like these sports, it just becomes physically prohibitive to play.

Host
00:42:54
So what do we do?

Michelle Meek
00:42:55
I mean, I think that we just have to imagine new scenarios.

Michelle Meek
00:42:59
So we think about boxes.

Michelle Meek
00:43:00
Boxing.

Michelle Meek
00:43:01
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:43:01
Boxing is based on weight.

Michelle Meek
00:43:04
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:43:05
And so couldn't we think of some other classification that was based on like size?

Michelle Meek
00:43:11
I mean, I've noticed with, with kids, you know, the girls actually start out being bigger than the boys, ironically.

Michelle Meek
00:43:18
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:43:19
And, and then that changes like in.

Michelle Meek
00:43:22
At around 13 through 17.

Michelle Meek
00:43:25
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:43:25
It's like, oh, you know, the girls are sort of have peaked in height and the boys continue to grow.

Michelle Meek
00:43:31
But, you know, I think that what your point about that is really true.

Michelle Meek
00:43:37
And I've often noticed how there's this fundamental problem where, you know, we say, oh, we need kids to be physical more, we need them to be getting more exercise, we have this problem with weight in our country and blah, blah, blah.

Michelle Meek
00:43:51
But we make sports so competitive and so prohibitive for anyone who wants to start out and try a sport that often, like, you know, with ice hockey, if you haven't been playing for many years, like, there's really no way in as a 12 year old, like you're already too late.

Host
00:44:09
Yeah, you're 12.

Michelle Meek
00:44:10
Like that doesn't even make any sense.

Michelle Meek
00:44:12
And so I think that in general there we could think about different kind.

Michelle Meek
00:44:17
And we already have many kinds of leagues already, right.

Michelle Meek
00:44:21
There's already leagues based on skill.

Michelle Meek
00:44:23
So, you know, why not rethink that?

Michelle Meek
00:44:27
And then the other thing is, and this is, okay, probably very controversial for some people, but I think we can think, rethink rules.

Michelle Meek
00:44:36
Why is there checking?

Michelle Meek
00:44:37
You know, one of the things that I've really wondered is have we actually contrived sports to benefit a male form?

Michelle Meek
00:44:48
And we've done that because we live in a patriarchal society and we have since the beginning of time, perhaps.

Michelle Meek
00:44:56
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:44:56
And so sports have not benefited people who are small and agile and nimble.

Michelle Meek
00:45:03
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:45:03
They've benefited people who are big and strong and fast.

Michelle Meek
00:45:08
Why?

Michelle Meek
00:45:09
No reason.

Michelle Meek
00:45:10
No good reason.

Michelle Meek
00:45:12
And so, you know, again, like, okay, maybe youth sports, youth hockey, for instance, shouldn't have checking at all.

Michelle Meek
00:45:19
Maybe that doesn't need to be a part of youth hockey.

Michelle Meek
00:45:21
Like, you know, or maybe that's only at the elite level because they're the ones who are training to be in this, you know, this league where they're going to be going into the NHL.

Michelle Meek
00:45:33
Probably not.

Michelle Meek
00:45:33
But, you know, they're the only ones that have shine.

Michelle Meek
00:45:36
Right?

Host
00:45:36
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:45:37
So everyone else, they're really doing it for fun.

Michelle Meek
00:45:39
So why can't we just have rules that kind of are more inclusive?

Host
00:45:45
Right.

Host
00:45:46
Well, I think that's very reasonable.

Host
00:45:48
I think the other thing that kind of popped to mind when you said that, and I have no idea how realistic this actually is, but just thinking that a lot of these rules are created for the spectator, right.

Host
00:46:02
To make it more interesting, to make it more, you know, whether it's more action, more violence, more.

Host
00:46:10
Right.

Host
00:46:11
I mean, checking doesn't necessarily benefit the players on the ice.

Host
00:46:17
No, but boy, does it entertain the people in the stands.

Michelle Meek
00:46:20
Yeah, right?

Host
00:46:21
And I think about to.

Host
00:46:22
My youngest plays football and he's super, super fast.

Host
00:46:27
So, you know, he could be.

Host
00:46:28
He loves playing running back.

Host
00:46:30
And.

Host
00:46:31
But what is the running back is the smaller one who's super fast, who often gets hit really, really hard.

Host
00:46:37
Right.

Host
00:46:37
And it's all the fantastic things that you see on ESPN where, you know, that kid doesn't walk again, they're out for a really long time.

Host
00:46:46
Because that entertains people.

Host
00:46:48
Just kind of, as you were saying that, I'm like, yeah, I think we.

Michelle Meek
00:46:52
Need to move on, people.

Michelle Meek
00:46:53
We need to move on, like, grow up as a society and just, you know, we're not watching, you know, a bull fight anymore.

Michelle Meek
00:47:02
Like, I was just like, yeah, let's think about skill.

Michelle Meek
00:47:07
And, and, you know, sports can be entertaining without this.

Michelle Meek
00:47:10
And if you want to watch boxing, go watch boxing.

Michelle Meek
00:47:13
Like, I just, I don't really, I don't have a lot of sympathy for that.

Michelle Meek
00:47:18
Like, you know, especially in youth.

Michelle Meek
00:47:20
Like, okay, I don't care.

Michelle Meek
00:47:21
I'm not talking about professional sports.

Michelle Meek
00:47:23
Like, I don't, you know, that's a different level.

Michelle Meek
00:47:26
If you're at that level, fine.

Michelle Meek
00:47:28
That's a whole other kind of Hannah Bean.

Michelle Meek
00:47:31
I'm talking about kids, kids who want to play sports.

Michelle Meek
00:47:35
Kids who don't need to be gendered when they're playing sports.

Michelle Meek
00:47:38
Like, it's just not necessary.

Michelle Meek
00:47:40
There can be leagues that have different levels based on size or skill or some combination of those.

Michelle Meek
00:47:46
And they can play other teams that are their size and skill and they can be co ed.

Michelle Meek
00:47:52
And then it just eliminates this obsession with constantly saying, pick a box, pick a box.

Michelle Meek
00:47:58
I mean, you know, the thing is that I, I feel like as a society, the best way forward is for us to be more open with gender so that rather than someone feeling like they have to move from this box to that box, they can just be who they want to be and not have to constantly make a decision of which side do they need to pick.

Michelle Meek
00:48:19
And in order to do that, we need to pull out, we need to pull back from all this gendering that we've been doing in our culture.

Michelle Meek
00:48:27
You know, we really do.

Michelle Meek
00:48:28
And, and it's pervasive.

Michelle Meek
00:48:30
I mean, I had my older kid went to math class the first day, and the teacher had created a seating char based on what she perceived as the gender of everyone in the class.

Michelle Meek
00:48:41
I mean, it was just like, this is math, you know, and so I think that there's just, you know, I want Us to kind of think more consciously about what we're really accomplishing with that and, and just, you know, be open to new ways of thinking about it.

Host
00:49:01
Right.

Host
00:49:02
Well, and I think that's the biggest thing right there.

Host
00:49:04
Right?

Host
00:49:05
Be open to new ways of thinking about it and be open to the different possibilities.

Host
00:49:13
Just because it's always been done this way is not a good reason.

Michelle Meek
00:49:17
No, it's not.

Host
00:49:18
And in fact, it's, it's a bad reason.

Michelle Meek
00:49:22
It is.

Michelle Meek
00:49:25
So life, like you're telling your kid it's because I said so.

Michelle Meek
00:49:29
It's like, okay, that's not an answer.

Host
00:49:31
Correct, Correct.

Host
00:49:34
I mean, oh my goodness, let's, it's time to move forward.

Host
00:49:37
And there's so much research and there's more research coming every single day about gender being a spectrum.

Host
00:49:45
It's right.

Michelle Meek
00:49:47
We don't need boxes and it's coming.

Michelle Meek
00:49:50
I mean, I don't know if our culture is fully prepared for the numbers that are going to come out in the next few studies, but, you know, I see it.

Michelle Meek
00:50:00
And there in some communities, they've already found that 1 in 10 youth are identifying as gender diverse.

Michelle Meek
00:50:07
And I have a feeling that those numbers are going to be even higher in a number of years.

Michelle Meek
00:50:11
So it's, you know, just again, like, this is where I really think that we need to take our cue from the youth and realize that if we don't want to be one of those people who's like on the wrong side of history yet again, one of those generations who's like putting their foot down and saying, but this is how we've done it, you know, I don't personally want to do that.

Michelle Meek
00:50:35
And sometimes people have been surprised because I am a, you know, fierce feminist advocate for women's rights and have been for many years.

Michelle Meek
00:50:44
And some people think, oh, that that means that you're going to be kind of anti trans, but absolutely not.

Michelle Meek
00:50:52
Like, to me, I have always felt like as a feminist, the goal is to make gender a non issue, that ultimately as a society I want us to all be equal.

Michelle Meek
00:51:03
And that means, and if that means that we have to completely break down the walls of gender to do that, like I'm there with the hammer, right?

Host
00:51:16
Exactly, exactly.

Host
00:51:19
Oh, I love that you said that and I love that you brought that up because I know that is kind of an underlying question that people have as well and get a place where people get stuck and again, you know, where humans love to have labels and you know, if you're this, then how can you possibly be this right?

Host
00:51:38
So I appreciate you saying that a lot and clarifying and clarifying that.

Host
00:51:44
For me, it always has made perfect sense that someone who is a feminist would also be pro transgender, trans rights, lgbtq.

Host
00:51:56
I mean, it doesn't really cross over to lgbtq, but specifically trans rights.

Host
00:52:00
And I've always been, like, so perplexed by that because I'm like, well, why?

Michelle Meek
00:52:03
Yeah, I mean, I think some of the concerns are, like, that come out or like, well, what is this going to do to women's sports or girls sports?

Michelle Meek
00:52:10
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:52:11
If we make it genderless, are the boys just going to always be the best at everything?

Michelle Meek
00:52:16
You know, will the top league then be filled with boys and the bottom league be filled with girls?

Michelle Meek
00:52:21
But girls sports, frankly, are already second fiddle to boy sports.

Michelle Meek
00:52:26
So if you don't know that, then you're living in a fantasy world.

Host
00:52:30
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:52:31
And so I think that we're not really losing anything, and I think that if anything, we're gaining something, especially if we reconsider some of the rules to be more inclusive, because then we actually could make some progress.

Michelle Meek
00:52:46
You know, I was reading an article, I think it was in the New York Times about the history of men's sports and women's sports.

Michelle Meek
00:52:53
And one of the claims that the author was making I thought was so fascinating, which is that, you know, women for a long time weren't allowed to play sports.

Michelle Meek
00:53:01
And so men's sports built up this audience of fans and this fan base that women's sports was never able to build up.

Michelle Meek
00:53:09
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:53:10
And as a consequence, we're still living with that legacy, really, of discrimination.

Michelle Meek
00:53:16
And I think that, you know, continuing to fight to make women's sports equal to men's sports feels like a losing battle.

Michelle Meek
00:53:26
And I just think that at this point, especially for children, like, we need to rethink.

Michelle Meek
00:53:33
It's just not going to be okay for 1 in 10 youth or more in a community to be faced with, are you on the girls team or the boys team?

Michelle Meek
00:53:42
Why?

Michelle Meek
00:53:43
Like, it just doesn't make sense.

Michelle Meek
00:53:44
It's too many kids and it's too ridiculous, and we need to move on.

Host
00:53:48
Right?

Michelle Meek
00:53:49
My opinion.

Host
00:53:50
Right.

Host
00:53:50
Well, I mean, and it's a great opportunity, right?

Host
00:53:54
I see this as an incredible opportunity to really step out of this very traditional way of thinking and come up with some solutions that work for everyone and really do work for everyone in a way that, like you brought up a while ago, the whole idea of people all the time talking about how obesity is such a problem with our kids.

Host
00:54:14
Well, of course it is, because they don't have the opportunity to move.

Michelle Meek
00:54:20
Right, right.

Host
00:54:21
This is taken away from them at a very young age.

Host
00:54:24
And so, you know, there are solutions.

Host
00:54:27
It's just perhaps going to take being a little uncomfortable.

Michelle Meek
00:54:31
Right, exactly.

Host
00:54:33
So, so I just am really, I cannot wait to see this film.

Host
00:54:38
I think that, wow, what a great way of approaching three very, very important topics.

Michelle Meek
00:54:49
So I'm hoping it can be a conversation starter.

Michelle Meek
00:54:51
You know, I mean, we start with film festivals, but ultimately what I'd really like to do is screen it at schools and libraries and camps and community centers and places that families can come.

Michelle Meek
00:55:02
It's an eight minute film.

Michelle Meek
00:55:04
You know, watch the film and then have a conversation and maybe have youth from the community and parents from the community part of that, leading that conversation so that we can hear from them and what they think about this in their community and how, what are the issues and how can we resolve them?

Michelle Meek
00:55:22
Because like I said, it doesn't only affect gender diverse youth.

Michelle Meek
00:55:26
This, this problem with sports is already affecting youth who are like boys who are quote, too small.

Michelle Meek
00:55:33
Right.

Michelle Meek
00:55:34
And so there's plenty of people who can gain from rethinking this system.

Host
00:55:41
Absolutely, absolutely.

Host
00:55:43
100%.

Host
00:55:44
Oh my goodness.

Host
00:55:45
I think that you, this is just what a great conversation starter and what a great way to really further a conversation that, you know, people have been having in places like this.

Host
00:55:58
But really, you know, invite more and more people into this conversation to see what ideas come when you kind of let go of the stuff.

Host
00:56:08
So I am so appreciative of all the work that you've done.

Host
00:56:14
Oh my goodness, it is.

Michelle Meek
00:56:15
Thanks so much again.

Host
00:56:17
I'm so happy that you've been here.

Host
00:56:19
Is there anything else that you would like to add or to let my audience know about how they can find you?

Michelle Meek
00:56:28
Of course.

Host
00:56:28
I'll have all of your links and information in the show notes and I'll put it out on social media as well once this posts.

Host
00:56:34
But anything on top of that that you would like to offer the floor?

Michelle Meek
00:56:38
Yeah, I mean, I say come to my website@michellemiek.com because that's really where you can find all my socials.

Michelle Meek
00:56:44
You can learn about the film, you can subscribe for updates and that's the best way to kind of keep in touch.

Michelle Meek
00:56:53
You can reach out to me too.

Host
00:56:55
Good, that's perfect.

Host
00:56:56
Yes, yes, your website is wonderful.

Host
00:56:59
It's very intuitive and easy to find everything.

Host
00:57:02
So, yes, I always appreciate.

Host
00:57:07
Oh good.

Host
00:57:08
It's all here in one place.

Host
00:57:10
So thank you so much for being here.

Michelle Meek
00:57:12
Definitely.

Michelle Meek
00:57:12
Thanks so much for having me.

Host
00:57:14
Of course, of course.

Host
00:57:16
Thank you for the conversation and the I just feel so much, so much more well informed.

Michelle Meek
00:57:22
That's good.

Michelle Meek
00:57:23
I'm glad.

Heather Hester
00:57:26
Thanks so much for joining me today.

Heather Hester
00:57:29
If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.

Heather Hester
00:57:33
For a rating or a review, click on the link in the show notes or go to my website Chris chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Heather Hester
00:57:48
Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone.

Heather Hester
00:57:54
And remember to just breathe until next.