The Complete Home Service Marketing Playbook

WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.480
Today we're talking about the marketing stack from one to ten million dollars.
00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:07.040
The first million dollar shop is just get leads.
00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:11.439
Most of your money needs to be going to filling your job board and then hiring the next tech.
00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:13.199
You have to get reviews on your GBP.
00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:14.240
It's so important.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.839
What I wouldn't be spending on is like buying a billboard or a radio.
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:21.920
I think what people get freaked out about is like traffic has gone down.
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:28.960
Yeah, low-intent traffic that would often like inflate numbers, like it make it make us SEOs look way better than we actually are.
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.880
So in 2026, SEO is building for a user experience.
00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:34.799
The keywords are not enough.
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.520
What's your closing thoughts on AI and SEO?
00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:48.799
Um so the first million dollar shop is just get leads, really.
00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:52.880
It's like you in marketing spend at least.
00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:53.200
Yeah.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:58.960
Every dollar that goes out needs to come back within a relatively appropriate time frame, right?
00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:05.680
Where this is where a lot of times I'll, you know, someone will talk to me, they're doing one to two million dollars.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:08.000
And I kind of ask them what their marketing spend is.
00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.319
They're, they're, they're, you know, they're saying we're hurting for leads.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.920
And they say, okay, what does marketing look like?
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:12.079
Yeah.
00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:17.359
Well, we have a SEO agency and we're paying them$3,000 a month and that's it.
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:17.760
Yeah.
00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:18.879
And I'm like, I love SEO.
00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:20.159
SEO leads are the best.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.480
Like let's do that, but let's do it when you can really afford to.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:33.040
Because if you have$3,000 a month to spend and it's all going to a delayed lead source that compounds over time, your your job board's not going to be full, right?
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:49.040
So I always talk with people like at$1 million, if you're using a relatively uh you know consistent budget framework or whatever, yeah, most of your money needs to be going to filling your job board and then hiring the next tech and filling his filling his job.
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.719
So that's like the big thing.
00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:59.359
But even when you're talking about the tech stack, like one of the big things, so obviously like LSA is great and the caveat, LSA is a lot different than it used to be.
00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:06.959
So if you're a plumber in Dallas and you have 75 reviews and you try and turn on local service ads, it's gonna be hard.
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.479
You're because there's gonna be 15 people with a thousand plus reviews.
00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:17.520
And it's gonna be really we talked right before we went on of like there's uh this sort of like, and we've talked about this a lot on the show.
00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:19.919
Yeah, because I I am frankly, I'm kind of annoyed by it.
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:20.240
Yes.
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.000
Um, but it's almost like the more rural, the easier.
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.439
There's no other people there.
00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:30.960
So there was a um, I have a friend and he was out, uh, we had like a shop tour thing.
00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:35.360
Yeah, and he and he's based out of Chicago, but his businesses are in uh Nebraska.
00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:35.840
Okay.
00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:38.479
And it's hilarious.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:44.960
He he buys these like two, three million dollar companies, and he is very literally it.
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.840
Like there's there's one game in town and he's it.
00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.759
And the obvious downside is it potentially caps sure.
00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:53.039
Like it does cap the upside.
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.280
Sure, like you can't have a hundred million dollar single branch.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:01.199
Yeah, but like if you have five to ten million and your LSA leads are 20 bucks because no one else is there, like who gives a shit?
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.599
Do do go do that in five locations too.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:04.000
Totally.
00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:04.800
Well, that's what he did.
00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:05.680
He's on four now.
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:09.840
So I uh this is like the Sam Walton approach to Walmart.
00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.439
So when Walmart first started, they didn't want to go compete in the big markets because they couldn't afford to.
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:15.680
Yeah.
00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:20.240
And they uh he wanted to work in smaller communities and then grow into larger ones.
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:20.479
Yeah.
00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:25.199
And so he intentionally went to the town instead of you know, who where's the town with 500,000 people?
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.400
He said, Where's the town with 50,000 people and a 30 mile race or whatever?
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:29.280
I don't know the exact average.
00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:44.639
But it's the same idea where if he can stand up enough of those stores, then he has a a pooled revenue that is such that he can then go afford to compete in a bigger market where he can pay a premium for leads because he has all the systems and he's got the revenue backing him.
00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:45.840
So that is interesting.
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:50.240
But um, yeah, if you're a plumber in Dallas with 75 reviews, it um gets hard.
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.639
It's you're it I tell people, don't count on it.
00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:54.159
Like turn it on, try it.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:54.719
Don't count on it.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:55.840
You might get a couple leads, yeah.
00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:04.560
But if you're in um, you know, there's someone here at the at the marketing workshop and they're in like a more rural part of uh the northeast, yeah, uh New York.
00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:09.039
And um, you know, we were talking the other day and they were like, yeah, we're a little bit slow.
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.520
And I was like, well, what service areas do you have turned on?
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.319
They're like, oh, we don't really like to, we don't want to drive like too far.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.240
So we only have our little city turned on.
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.560
It's like, well, if you're slow, just turn on the next two cities.
00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:23.040
They like tripled their leads overnight because no one else is running LSA.
00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:32.079
Well, I've I've used the example on this show, but like I've talked to people in different parts of Ohio and they they've doubled in the last year or two.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:33.920
And it's like, well, what'd you do?
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.439
Oh, we turn on we turn on LSA.
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:40.560
It's like, oh my God, that's like a you know, there so there's still parts of like the country where this works.
00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:42.319
It just is rural.
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:50.720
Yes, it's it's going to be uh, hey, our county is spread out, it's a large county by area, and it has 120,000 people in it.
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.600
Yeah, like with one one main city that's got you know 45,000.
00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:59.839
And it's like, but again, like you can do millions of dollars in revenue in that.
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:06.079
And so that is like an example that I've given is there's a SEALA branch, and SEAL is like a large consolidator.
00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:11.920
Uh, and they do like 35 million in a population of 40,000 people.
00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:13.439
So you can do it.
00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:13.920
Yeah, they can't do it.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.519
They implement the HVAC electric.
00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:17.279
Yeah, so you can do it.
00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:28.160
So that's why I said, hey, potentially you caps your upside, because I mean, that's an exception, not the rule, but like that guy's doing, you know, a dollar per person, basically.
00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:28.720
It's insane.
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:30.160
$10 per person of revenue.
00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:31.279
That is kind of funny.
00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:32.079
Yeah.
00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.720
Winning the job is great, but keeping that customer for the next 10 years is way better.
00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.959
And that's why we've been paying attention to Comfort Connect.
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:46.399
It's an all-in-one application and payment platform that gives homeowners flexible ways to pay while making it easier for contractors to close more jobs.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.519
What really stands out to me is what happens after the install.
00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:57.360
Contractors stay connected to those customers and they create more opportunities for maintenance and upgrades and replacements, and then cross sales down the road.
00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:03.759
On top of that, Comfort Connect pays contractors quarterly revenue share based on the customers using the platform.
00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:08.560
As more homeowners enroll, that recurring payout can add up really fast.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.480
And some contractors are collecting more than$15,000 every quarter.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:17.680
If you're looking for more than just another payment option, book a call with Comfort Connect at the link below.
00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.319
So, but anyway, it's like do the basics, right?
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.600
So turn on Google LSA.
00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:22.240
Yep.
00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:24.639
If you can get leads out of that, that's awesome.
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:41.120
Um, the next thing, and this is like where a lot of agencies won't really say this because it doesn't benefit an agency, but yeah, I tell people when you're at the million dollar point, trying to pay, you know, pay an agency to run, let's say, like pay-per-click ads for you, um, you're having to pay a fee.
00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.720
Plus, like to run pay-per-click well, you need a decent budget to make it work.
00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:44.959
Yeah.
00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.920
So I usually tell people like, hold off on that for a while.
00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:51.199
Like you're go get scrappy and and run aggregators, right?
00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:52.079
I I agree with that.
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:54.000
Test test all the aggregators in your marketing.
00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.279
Thumbtack, thumbtack, yelp, angie, like the paper.
00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.839
No, the the I think this is back to the what's your technology.
00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:00.160
Yes.
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:01.519
Because that's what I was coming back to.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:03.600
We went and we bought this company in January.
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:04.000
Yeah.
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.759
And we we basically turned on LSA.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:08.160
Yeah.
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:09.839
And and like, oh yeah, we doubled.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.040
You know, there's that story that I've had, but like that was also our story too.
00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:13.279
Yeah.
00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.360
We went from$1,000 a month of LSA to$5,000, and but the company doubled.
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.959
We went from$100,000 of revenue to we did 240 in sales in February.
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:22.079
It's like it was ridiculous.
00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:22.560
Yeah.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.959
And um, and all of that was just filling the board, but just LSA.
00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:27.759
Yeah.
00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.279
The problem was we didn't have a speed delete technology in it.
00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.519
They were on service tight and they're using marketing pro.
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:37.920
Marketing pro is not a speed to lead technology, it's like a maybe email and potentially text.
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.160
Yeah.
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:38.800
Potentially.
00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:40.959
Like they're very like stingy on that.
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:48.720
And uh so we had and it takes a kind of a minute to to get the Avoka like speed delete thing set up.
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.959
So I because you have to go through the TCPA approvals and all that stuff.
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:54.079
So it took like a month, I think.
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.079
But like but now we can turn on thumbtack.
00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:57.120
Now we can turn on Angie.
00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:02.319
Because when someone puts on in their information, you're texting them immediately, you know, getting a notification, a call or whatever.
00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:08.560
I so we weren't even doing aggregators without that technology because in our minds it's kind of like wasted money.
00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:13.680
Uh I was talking to a shop um that's doing about one and a half million uh yesterday.
00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:14.079
Yeah.
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:20.160
And my advice to them, because of their financial situation, they didn't have a huge budget, which makes sense.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.480
And I said, you should go try the out aggregators.
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.079
They said, okay, they don't, none of them work.
00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:24.319
Yeah.
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.759
And I said, I I'm sure some like it's very market dependent.
00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:29.519
I'm sure some of them are not great for your market.
00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:29.759
Yeah.
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:34.159
But I've never known a market unless it's really rural where it's not offered, that it doesn't work.
00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:35.440
So I kind of asked the process.
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:41.440
I was like, if you let's say it's Angie's and they sell you a lead and um, like what's your process?
00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.919
Well, we we see it come in and we get to it.
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:44.240
Yeah.
00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:45.519
Okay, how long does that take?
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:47.039
Well, it depends on if we're online.
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:47.759
Yeah.
00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:52.240
So it's like, okay, well, you know, if you're not calling in the first 30 seconds or texting the first 30 seconds.
00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.240
And I said, What if you do get to it quickly?
00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:59.440
Well, I call and they don't answer, it's you usually go straight to voicemail, leave them a voicemail and try them later.
00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.600
Like, do you ever call them twice in a row?
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.639
They're like, Oh no, I don't, I don't want to annoy people.
00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:10.080
And I said, Well, if you called me once and I don't know your number, I'll never even see that it came in.
00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:15.679
But if you call me twice, I then it comes through and I see that I had a missed call from you, I'm way more likely to pick up.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:17.600
And I was asking you to reach out to me.
00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:18.480
I need your help.
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:18.799
Yeah.
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:23.600
Um, and so it's those little things that you have to be able to do to take advantage of it.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.840
But like when you're this size, aggregators can be great and just be scrappy.
00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.120
Like, I'm gonna be the first, I'm I'm gonna get the speed delete platform set up.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:38.480
Yeah, I'm going to use my, hey, I'm the owner of the business coming to talk to you versus, you know, I'm one of I'm Joe Schmo sales.
00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:39.039
Exactly.
00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.320
And so um, do that, and that's gonna help you fill your job board.
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:44.080
So like LSA aggregators, yeah.
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:49.519
I mean, the biggest thing we talk about all the time, we don't need to to you know beat a dead horse, but get reviews.
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:51.039
You have to get reviews on your GBP.
00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.159
Yeah, it's so important.
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.120
Like big rep, like yeah, they're amazing.
00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:59.279
You get uh automated reviews, they help you with like setting up your profile correctly.
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:06.240
But even if you are in a market where people have thousands of reviews around you, you can still own your backyard.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:06.559
Yeah.
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:12.159
For even if it's only a mile or two mile radius, um, that's a big deal if it's a populated market.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.000
And so, and those those are great.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:20.559
And so you need to be, yeah, calling uh after jobs, like getting the reviews again, using I'm the owner.
00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:26.639
Like I know owners that make calls at the end of every day and they their text have asked for reviews, but they say, Hey, my name's John Wilson.
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.399
I run a local company here.
00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:34.159
Um, it means the world to us that one, we did a good job, and then two, that uh we're able to to know it.
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:35.840
And it also really just helps our business.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.000
And people are way more responsive to that.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.600
Um, and so like those little things that don't scale, yeah.
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:43.679
People are like, oh, I can't do it because it doesn't scale.
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:44.879
You're not scaled yet.
00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:45.279
Do it.
00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:47.840
Like that's how you fast track it.
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:58.159
Um, you know, have a basic website, you need a CRM, but like just like it's these little things like reviews, uh treating people well, servicing them well.
00:10:58.320 --> 00:10:58.480
Yeah.
00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.000
And then yeah, is it are they coming through LSA, are they coming through aggregators?
00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:03.679
You know, how are you getting them?
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:10.799
But every dollar that you're spending really needs to come back to um to being a lead like in the short term.
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.879
What I wouldn't be spending on is like um brand strategy.
00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:35.279
So like I'm not buying a billboard or a radio ad or anything like that, um, because it's good that people know your brand, but if you're not getting calls immediately, like I tell people build your brand through reviews and through treating people well in the first one to five million or whatever, and then you can you can worry about that.
00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:40.639
Um, the other thing I see a lot, um full-time hires too early.
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:40.960
Yeah.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.919
Um, and usually I don't know why I see that so much.
00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:47.600
I think just people think like I need to do marketing, and so I need to hire someone to do marketing.
00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:55.519
Yeah, I I yeah, there's like companies that um like I'll hear people in like the three to five range and be like, yeah, I think we need, and I'm like, what are you talking about?
00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.159
Like it's our first hire was at 13 million.
00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.960
Yeah, like it's um and even that felt a bit early.
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:08.000
Well, it's because I think a lot of owners are just like, I'm not a marketing person, and so this person either has a marketing degree or they've worked in marketing somewhere.
00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:15.919
The problem is that that size, what you can afford to pay someone to do marketing, um they're they're usually maybe good at one thing.
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:16.320
Yeah.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.879
I'm really great at organic social media, I'm really great at running paid ads on Google.
00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:21.200
Yeah.
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:35.600
But if you're trying to optimize a business profile, you know, uh do SEO on your website, if you're eventually trying to do Facebook ads or you know, general branding, like you don't really want to spend a full-time salary on a generalist.
00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:35.919
Yeah.
00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:37.039
Um, not yet.
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.279
Now, I'm a big fan of in-house marketing hires as you scale, yeah, that essentially agencies can partner with.
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:53.120
And eventually as you grow, you can outgrow your agency, you can hire more things internally, but they're they're not even really, they're not even like the direct marketer pushing and pulling buttons.
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:53.440
Yeah.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:13:00.799
They're they are strategy, accountability, they're communicating what costs budget management, what cost yeah, what is our cost per lead need to be?
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:04.320
What what channels are working, what what uh levers need to be pulled up and down.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:12.399
But that's kind of, we can get into that next, but like that's five million is like not even higher that higher necessarily, but you start to think more about that.
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:25.120
Yeah, but like an owner, a good agency um is hopefully going to over-communicate to you as an owner and and speak in plain language so that you don't have to rely on a yeah, you know, a marketing coordinator or whatever for for that early.
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:25.679
So yeah.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.799
On the one sort of that finishing up the one stage, yeah.
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:32.879
We have three businesses now that are in that one to five range.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.919
And our path to five is like this is it.
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:38.879
Like this is it.
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:44.399
We're buying more leads, we're installing the technology to respond to those leads fast, and we're selling them.
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.320
And it people really love to overcomplicate it.
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:48.480
Yeah.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:51.039
Uh, and it's just not that comp and it's not that complicated.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.399
It's it's simple but not easy.
00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:58.559
Like you just need leads, and like that one plumbing company, the example I gave, like we took it over in January.
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.440
It's a great team, but like they just needed more leads.
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:06.159
Uh they did a million, like 1.48 last year, or 1.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:07.039
Yeah.
00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:12.480
And uh like we'll probably do four this year.
00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:14.879
Just with some simple but not easy necessary.
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.000
Simple but not easy.
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:23.279
It's it's expanding the lead budget significantly, installing the right technology, and answering the phone more.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:24.960
Well, and like that's actually it.
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:26.399
And you also have to price right.
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:27.840
That's another that's one more thing.
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:28.399
Yes.
00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:30.080
Like, we don't have to talk about a long time.
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:30.320
Yeah.
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.200
But you, if you We did a 30% price increase, like off the road.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:41.200
If you can't afford leads, but your competitors can, uh, there's usually a pricing issue because it is a supply and demand market.
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:47.279
Like Google is not new to this, like they will not make a lead so expensive that no one can make money on it.
00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.399
But there are people like, you know, you've talked about it before.
00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.600
If my average ticket can be higher than my competitor, I can pay more per lead.
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:54.559
I can win more leads.
00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.600
We I got in this discussion last uh two, well, two weeks ago.
00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:58.720
We had like a shop tour thing.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:02.480
Yes, maybe 15 companies uh were here, and this was a discussion.
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.840
People were really focused on well, like what's your cost per lead?
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:07.360
And it's like, who the fuck cares?
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.840
Like it doesn't, it doesn't actually matter, right?
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:18.559
So in our restoration company, cut and dry, uh, they did$150,000 last month at a massive gross margin, like 70% gross margin.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:19.919
It's a ridiculous business.
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.879
And uh Sarah, she runs it and she's awesome.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.759
And uh like the leads are like$500.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:27.679
Like we've spent more than$500.
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.559
What's your what your average rate is 30%?
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.720
Yeah, so like okay, we close one and three, so we spent$1,500 per job.
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:36.320
But our average think it might be six grand.
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:36.720
Yeah.
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.960
And it's like, okay, would I pay 25% for that?
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.360
Sure.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:40.159
Yeah, sure.
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:41.440
Especially with your gross margin.
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.559
Like it's know your numbers and then like know what they need to be.
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:44.879
Yeah.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.679
Um, anyway, that that's a whole other conversation.
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:54.399
But like we there's only so much a good agency can even do in terms of cost per lead because you get in trouble, you know.
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.879
Well, people I think cost per lead's not the thing to fix.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:57.440
It's not.
00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.279
And I and people what's your ROI?
00:15:59.440 --> 00:15:59.679
Yes.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.320
People ask me all the time, what's my cost per lead gonna be?
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.480
And I say, well, it's gonna depend a lot on a lot of things.
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.840
Like you're a plumber, uh, I can get your cost per lead really low, and you'll only be doing leaky faucet calls.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:11.519
You'll never touch water heater for the rest of your life.
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:13.679
A good example of this is LSA versus Angie.
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:14.000
Yes.
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.720
So LSA might be like$80 to$100 a lead.
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.799
Angie leads might be$15 to 30.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:21.840
What are you closing?
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:22.480
What's the quality?
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.360
Yeah, so our book rate on Angie is 29%.
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:25.759
Yeah.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.519
Our book rate for LSA is like 80.
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:27.679
Yeah.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:35.440
So like right off the rip, it takes what, three Angie leads, which is$90 to equal one LSA lead.
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:36.720
So it's called the stuff.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:38.639
And you're not introducing automatic competition.
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.240
Like people, when they called you through LSA, they saw your brand and your reviews.
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:48.000
So you already have a higher it's a little annoying that people get so it's like you are missing the forest through the trees.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.320
Cost per lead matters as a part of an equation.
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.720
As a just like every like five other data points.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.960
It's the funnel, but we can we could go forever on that.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:56.799
Okay, so five million.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:01.360
Um, I would say it's a lot of doing the same stuff better.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.440
So up your budgets on LSA.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.000
If you found a great aggregator that works, do you have a system?
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:06.720
Keep upping it.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:07.119
Yep.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:15.039
Um, somewhere along this path, you can start to think about introducing pay-per-click more because yes, cost per lead is going to be a little bit higher than LSA.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:16.880
Everything's market dependent.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.039
Um, you're gonna have to pay more for a man for you know an agency to manage it.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:21.200
Yeah.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:26.720
But like what's great about pay-per-click is you can really uh position yourself well and you can scale it.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.480
I always tell people like LSA is great, but everybody's LSA account looks the same or LSA ad essentially.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:32.720
Yes.
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.160
It's how it's how many reviews you have.
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:35.599
You have a couple things you can toggle.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:35.839
Yeah.
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:51.359
But if I am running in a market where everyone's running PPC, and when I look for plumbing, you know, plumbing Akron, and the guy's ad says plumber and acron, and mine says, you know, uh plumbing, plumbing Akron, same day service, no service fee.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:51.680
Yeah.
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:53.200
No, like who are you picking?
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.359
Yeah, you're picking the one with a unique selling proposition.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.880
We work with some people that are in heavily private equity markets, yeah.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:08.319
Uh, and I'm like, guys, let's run an ad that says still family owned, still locally owned, because consumers are more and more aware of private equity.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:15.440
And so I have a friend in Virginia, and he was telling me we actually had him on the show.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.839
But he was telling he might have even said on the show.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.839
I I this is the conversation I had with him.
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:20.559
Okay, yeah.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:29.200
So like he'll walk up, his text will walk up to the door, and like the customers will will ask, Hey, are you guys private equity at the door?
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.440
Which was really interesting.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.480
He was the first guy because I was talking through how ads might make sense.
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:39.440
I think that I think that coast, because Len the Plumber was one of the earlier big deals.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.720
I feel like that was 2017, 2018, big freaking company.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.000
And that went pretty early.
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:46.559
And then Horizon has been humongous over there too.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.720
So I think like the combination of those two, they're like 40 branches each.
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.599
Yeah, like I I think they got, yeah.
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:54.799
Well, people know.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.960
And like I I live in Dallas, huge HVAC market, a lot of private equity.
00:18:59.039 --> 00:18:59.279
Yeah.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.119
Like people, people are aware.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:08.160
Um, and you know, even like if you'll, you know, go look on like a forum somewhere, it's like, hey, who's the best whatever company?
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.599
It's like, hey, you know, the joke is like, well, if they walk in with an iPad, you know, run away.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.319
Like that's kind of the joke because everyone has the same play.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.960
But yeah, what's your unique selling proposition in your market?
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.200
Is it do you work with a lot in a comp in a uh an area with a lot of chuck in in a truck?
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:27.759
Then play like the professional, timely, you know, buttoned up uh you know, uh approach.
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.519
Are you in a big private equity market?
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.880
Well, we're we're still family owned, still locally owned.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:36.640
I love that because it tells people you're family owned and you still are, which implies that other people aren't.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:37.359
Like yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.720
Those little things can really work.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.960
So PBC is great for that.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.960
You can be way more targeted on the type of customer.
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.519
Yeah, and you have budget, and so you can go for it.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:45.839
Yeah.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:57.680
Um, real SEO strategy, like thinking through how does my local SEO, like maybe pushing on like a programmatic type with yeah, with my with my Google Business profile, how's that gonna tie into how my website performs?
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:59.680
Um, what content am I putting on the website?
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:05.440
And then this is also where, depending on how good you are at getting reviews, you can think about more GBP locations.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:05.759
Yeah.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.240
Um, you know, on the other side of town, like however far it's gonna be.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:17.920
Uh, because if you're able to get to a thousand reviews or 750 reviews, whatever, depending on your market, then you can support a second one.
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.920
And can you get that to a hundred reviews really quick?
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:29.920
Well, now you have another just like awesome review source that is really it's a lot harder to do that when you're at a million because you're not running enough jobs to actually support two profiles with enough reviews.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:30.480
Yeah.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.160
Um, so that's big.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.480
And then you really get like into um you've grown your customer list over time.
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.039
And so you're doing a lot more retargeting.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.359
So people see, I actually think that comes in earlier.
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:51.519
Well, it's it should always be a play, but it becomes more of a um, it becomes a bigger deal because the bigger your list is.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:58.000
Now, if you've been in if you maybe are a family-owned company and you're at a million and a half, you may have a customer list as big as you know, as you do.
00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.599
Like if they've been in business for 80 years.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.200
The company that we took over in January, they had 8,000 people on the list.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.279
And like, that's a humongous list.
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:15.519
Like I so the the number that I've always sort of had in mind was 6,000 people in your customer list is one full-time outbounder making a hundred calls a day.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:15.839
Yep.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.200
Because then you call your whole customer list every 90 days and then you just restart.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:19.519
Yeah.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.720
Because you probably won't get a hold of them.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:22.240
You'll probably actually only talk to them once a year.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:22.480
Yep.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:28.880
But 6,000 is like that's enough for a full-time person to call that list every single day and that'd be their whole job.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:38.160
And so even if you don't have 6,000, when your CSR is not picking up the phone or your dispatch or whatever, like so that that was another part of our core strategy for doubling that business.
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.039
It was LSA and literally 20 outbounds a day.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:46.799
Like we actually couldn't even the company was so small that uh, because it only had four technicians.
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:47.599
You couldn't service it.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:48.640
I think we have seven now.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.079
But like, yeah, we couldn't service it.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:56.319
If we did put a full time outbounder on it, we would book eight to ten appointments a day because that's what our full time outbounders book.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.480
Like, I don't have room for eight to ten appointments a day.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:59.759
Like, we're literally too small.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.759
Yeah, you need to hire it's too successful.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.200
It's too good of a lead channel.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.240
Here's a stat about Yelp that I bet you didn't know.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:22.079
When millions of people ask AI like ChatGPT, Perplexity, or any of the others what the best home service provider is, Yelp recommendations show up three times more than Angie, Thumbtack, Home Advisor, Better Business Bureau, and Nextdoor combined.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:28.079
And here's why that matters to you 91 to 97% of those searches do not include the business name.
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.440
The homeowner hasn't picked anybody yet, and they're deciding right now.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:34.160
And Yelp is where they're getting their answers.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.079
These aren't low-intent browsers.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:41.920
Over half of Yelp's 76 million monthly audience earns six figures and owns their home.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:53.599
Jose Varga started five-star HVAC on his own in Dallas, and he turned on Yelp ads, and they hit 30% year-over-year growth with$650 revenue per call.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.640
And he grew his monthly leads by a 444%.
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:01.680
If you want to own the moment when homeowners are making their choice, then you should be checking out Yelp.
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:10.799
Start earning your share on Yelp's 350,000 daily home service leads by going to business.yelp slash owned and operated.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.480
Is AI killing SEO?
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:16.559
Short answer, no.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.319
So I've been working in SEO for the last 10 years.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:20.799
Okay.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.400
And this question has existed in different forms since then and probably since before then.
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.920
What are some other forms?
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.160
So basically, is SEO dead?
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:35.200
Has been a question that has been kicked around the digital uh sphere for a long time.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:39.599
And this is just like the the modern day AI era of that question.
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.240
Yeah.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.240
Personally is what I feel.
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:56.480
So in 2026, um the key to local success in SEO is being the most trustworthy, reliable, accurate answer exactly when somebody needs it, when they're searching.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.240
That has pretty much remained the same forever.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:08.079
But what has changed now is the fact that AI has not killed it, but probably changed it beyond recognition.
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:14.079
Like for me personally, if I think back to when I first started working in SEO, I would probably never have imagined this.
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.200
Um, but I don't think it's a bad thing at all.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:25.839
Um, so before to be able to rank, you would just need Google to crawl your website or crawl your page and index it.
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:26.240
Yeah.
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:27.599
I mean, even just two years ago.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:27.920
Yeah.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:37.519
You used to be able to, uh, you know, we were doing like a programmatic project and uh it was like inputting for uh in indexing every day or something.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:38.319
It was kind of ridiculous.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.880
But you used to be able to like submit for indexing or something like that.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:41.279
Yeah.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:43.759
And um yeah, it wasn't complicated.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.000
No.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:52.640
But honestly, I don't feel like because of the rapid state of change, I haven't really been paying attention at all to how SEO works now in the last 18 months.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.759
I just I have no idea.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:54.160
Yeah.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.079
But I used to know, I used to know it worked.
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:57.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:02.240
Um, so like I said, I think like previously, it like you say, even like two or three years ago.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:02.799
Yeah.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.200
What was important is your page would get indexed.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:11.119
And that's all that Google cared about is indexing the page and going, okay, yeah, that can go on position three, page one, whatever.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:21.440
AI now needs context and it needs to understand those pages in order to be able to rank them within like AI overviews, AI queries on the platforms themselves.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:33.119
And it's so much more than just Google scanning a page, it's about AI going in, reading that page, understanding the context, understanding the what, the why, the where, specifically for local SEO, the where is very important.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.720
Um, and what that has given us, I think personally, is a much more meaningful set of data in 2026.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:51.039
So previously, obviously, we report and we still do, and uh any SEO will tell you that you report on traffic figures for your clients, you report on um like conversions.
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:55.680
So traffic figures um, I think in the past have been a bit of a false son.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:04.720
So you could say, hey, actually, we sent 20,000 visitors to your website, but a lot of the time, 15,000 of those are going looking at blogs and they've never taken action.
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:05.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.720
So we we bought a company in 2021.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.200
Yeah.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:11.920
And they had 30,000 monthly hits.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:12.240
Yeah.
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.279
And it was like, wow, like what you know, what's going on?
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.839
And honestly, the they should what they should have done with it is sold air filters or something.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:21.519
Like they should have actually made use of that.
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:21.759
Yeah.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:27.279
Um, because like traffic was coming from all over, but it was, yeah, blogs, because they're backlink strategy.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.519
Yeah.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.359
But like their actual intent, visitors, was very low.
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:32.400
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.839
And it's um, you know, it's like it always looks great on paper and it's a great number.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:54.319
But when it comes down to the crux of it, if you're only sending people to a blog post and they're only getting information and like DIYing the pro the service that you're selling and taking it away, while those numbers look good on paper for like figures, actually you're not getting people that are there specifically to convert.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:16.319
So if we're talking about like AI overviews and like how-tos and Google keeping people on the results page, um, then what you're doing is getting a set of data where you can, you know, like quite confidently say the people that are actually coming to your site and clicking through are a potential true like lead or customer and not just some Joe Blogs looking for how to fix a dripping faucet, for example.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:27.279
I think what people get freaked out about just from like what I see from Reddit or just talking to people is like traffic has gone down.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.960
And your your thought is yes, bad traffic went down.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:33.599
Yeah.
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.119
Not that it's necessarily bad traffic, but I think it was low intent.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:49.839
Yeah, low intent traffic that would often like inflate numbers, like it make it make us SEOs look way better than we actually are, because again, then those aren't like converting pages, those aren't who are ever going to convert.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:51.039
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.039
I haven't paid much attention.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:28:05.759
Um I don't know how our like we should look it up, but uh like I'm sure our marketing manager does, but I don't know how our monthly I'm I'm assuming it dropped over the past few years, because like I think everybody's dropped.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.519
What has I does DA matter anymore, like domain authority?
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.160
I'm gonna say so maybe controversial here.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:12.640
Okay.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.920
Um I don't buy into DA.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:25.680
So DA or like DR, depending on which tool you're using, um, is unique to like each tool that you go and so AHREs, it's not Google, it's a HRFs.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.160
Exactly.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.400
So like Sumrush or Search Atlas.
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:34.960
Um and it is like uh their formula or their algorithm to come up with that figure.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.759
If you put the same website into three different ones, you'll get a different figure.
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:38.160
Yeah.
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:47.119
Um, and like your site can have domain authority, but domain authority isn't a measurable metric that you could say, oh yeah, you're a 10 out of 100.
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.200
Um, and I think it's super easy for people to get hung up on that.
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:56.400
When in reality, what you want to look at a bottom line, if there's just one thing is the conversions, right?
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:01.039
I I could ignore every single other metric if conversion is going in the right direction.
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:01.759
Yeah.
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.519
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, we uh our my cut, my like commentary on domain authority.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.920
I we're a Tref's house here.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:19.039
So uh so my commentary on that is like over the past couple of years, our domain authority keeps going up and we're just like we're not doing anything different.
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:32.079
So, like what we're assuming is happening is we've ranked well in the past, and like our blogs that were low intent, like did whatever they're gonna do and got more backlinks because we have not been working that hard on it.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:39.920
And I think that we're just showing up in more search because of the amount of volume, and that's giving us like more credibility or something.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.079
But we're up like 10 points, like we're in the 40s and like we were in the 20s, yeah.
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:46.160
And it's like we didn't do anything.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.720
Yeah, I mean, we'll keep it, but it is it is a bit interesting, yeah.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:55.119
And age domain does add into that, um, like domain authority score as well.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:09.920
But that um it kind of contradicts itself because you could get a new website spun up that gets a ton of great backlinks straight off the bat that isn't all, doesn't have that sort of like historical footprint um and performs really well, but their DA may still say seven.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:11.519
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.240
All right, so you so you're thinking that searches are down.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.279
Uh God, I wish I had my laptop and we could like dive into this a little bit.
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:28.000
But searches are down, but it's bad searches, or not bad, but like low intent, which again totally tracks because I'm sure that um I'm thinking of my friends' websites, like we've talked about it like six months ago, maybe.
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:34.000
And the blog, like their traffic went down, but it was all like how to fix your Navian water heater.
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:34.400
Yeah.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:36.960
And it's like, yeah, okay, nobody really gives a shit about that.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:38.799
Like, I don't give a shit about that.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:50.000
Okay, and like have we seen uh I had someone on the show, um, it was Zach from Mantle, and he he's not like an SEO expert, but it was just like data.
00:30:50.480 --> 00:31:03.759
Uh, what he was finding that it was like 60% of people found their con their contractor still on Google, 20% from like referrals, uh, but it was only like three from Chat GPD.
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:05.759
Has that like changed or like any?
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:12.480
Um, this is another one that I've got a bit of a hot take on because it was a conversation I have with my clients a ton.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:12.960
Yeah.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:18.640
Um, and I personally don't know anyone that uses an AI platform as a search engine.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:19.839
I don't know about you.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.079
Um I mean, the results are always terrible.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:23.519
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.799
Um, and the they all pull their data from Google.
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.680
Uh Google's got the biggest knowledge base, the most data.
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.519
Um I I guess the intention is that one day that won't be the case.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:47.759
Um, but yeah, I don't think that um Google should be quaking in its boots as a search engine um that's going to be replaced with AI for at least the the immediate future and probably the next five, 10 years.
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:48.480
Yeah.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:56.640
So with like sort of low intense searches down, your take is that high intense searches are still happening on Google?
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:57.440
Absolutely.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:57.839
Yeah.
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:08.400
So if you think of things like um looking for the best Thai food in best Thai food in Stowe, Ohio, for example, you're not going to read an AI overview.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:13.599
You may get a few suggestions from there, but then you're gonna go click through the profiles, take a look at the review counts, look at the paper.
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:21.200
So those so that's what I've heard is like discovery happens on Chat GPT or Perplexy or whatever.
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:26.240
But then like authentication or or like uh verification happens on Google.
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:31.440
So hey, I was served up, like give me some tie options for this event or whatever the fuck.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:36.319
And then we're gonna go over to Google and like, are their reviews terrible or are they good?
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.079
Uh and I feel like that's how I like I'll occasionally do that.
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:40.960
Yeah, for sure.
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.839
There's still a lot of distrust with the general public with AI.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.400
Well, it's it's because the results are terrible.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:59.680
Like I I tried to do, I try I tried to do this uh yesterday, and it was sort of funny because I was I logged in, I like opened up my laptop this morning and my search was still up and I was looking for like something weird.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:08.160
And like I never used Chat GPT to like look for places to go, but I was like, hey, give me the vibeest coffee shop in Cleveland.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:11.119
And and in my mind, I couldn't think of another way to word it.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:16.480
And because that's how I was wording it, I was like, I don't think Google's gonna do much with this search.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:22.640
So because I think I said vibeist, and um so I went over to Chat GPT, it was terrible.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.799
Like the the results were still were still terrible.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:25.920
Yeah, absolutely.
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:26.720
But yeah.
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:41.279
Um, yeah, that level of distrust, like I think it's there with like the general Joe Blogs member of the public, people who are spending money on um digital services, so our clients specifically, uh a ton, ton of them uh don't don't buy into it, don't want it.
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:52.880
Um obviously it's a case of you know, we have conversations about the benefits and how we, you know, how we don't just spit out AI generated content as is and we humanize and edit content.
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.839
Um so that that tracks with that as well.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.519
Um another thing that's still always gonna get clicks is emergency queries.
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:04.240
Um so if I'm like emergency plumber in STO and I'm looking for that at 9 p.m.
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.640
at night, I need to take an immediate action.
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:06.960
Yeah.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.599
I'm not even looking at the AI overview.
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:20.639
I'm scrolling straight down, finding that call button and picking up the phone, booking the job absolutely will never ever go away from um, will never be sort of like taken over by AI.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.400
Um, and then brand searches.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:37.440
So somebody that already knows you is typing in um owned and operated, or is typing in Wilson companies, either they may not be a new client, uh, but they may be like a repeat customer or somebody that's had a word of mouth recommendation, they know what they're looking for, they don't need the options.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:37.760
Yeah.
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.039
So they're typing that in.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.840
They're seeing the profile, clicking a button, picking up a phone.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:42.719
Yeah.
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:49.440
Yeah, people um what we found, which in some ways it's good, in some ways it's like kind of annoying.
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:53.840
Uh, but we'll look at our monthly reporting for our GBPs.
00:34:54.079 --> 00:35:02.239
And some of the like most of our traffic, like north of 80%, yeah, comes from someone searching Wilson.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:06.400
So like the good is like, hey, we've been effective at branding.
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:08.159
And do, you know, hey, great job.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:09.679
You know, all that money went somewhere.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:17.119
The bad is like, okay, not that many people are like, we're not showing up in the plumber near me's.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:36.800
And I don't know if there's just not that many plumber near me's, but um, it was kind of it, it was really shocking when I first saw that because I really thought that, hey, all of our traffic is coming from, you know, emergency plumber, what hot water tank broken, you know, sort of pick a problem.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.000
And really the vast majority was like someone just looking for us.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:40.480
Yeah.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:42.400
Which I don't know if that's good or bad.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.760
Like it's good and bad there.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:50.880
Yeah, I think if you're operating on a large scale, like you are, um, then it's never a bad thing and it doesn't really matter.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:59.519
Um, if you are a smaller company um who can't rank for those key terms, but your brand search is like 50 a month.
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:09.440
Um, so you're getting not much, then you're like, hey, actually, we need to look at how we target brand versus brand, how we direct people um straight to service pages rather than just to their homepage.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:09.840
Yeah.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:17.280
Um, supporting like contextual content, like build that network of content around the topics of the services.
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.199
Um, but yeah, for like a larger company, the like it doesn't really matter.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:21.920
Yeah.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.480
Okay.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.119
Well, like how can people drive SEO today?
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:26.559
Like, what does SEO look like?
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:27.679
How do you do it successfully?
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:28.320
Okay.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:33.760
Um, so in 2026, SEO is building for a user experience.
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:36.480
Um, the keywords are not enough.
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:42.320
The um sort of like index and spit out a page into uh the SERPs is not enough.
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.440
You need to be able to demonstrate authority and expertise.
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:56.079
So when these LLMs are crawling your site and taking this information, they're like, actually, this guy's no, this guy knows what he's talking about, and we want to put this or serve this as a result within the LLM.
00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:06.000
Um, but again, it comes back to that contextual information and the the the AI model understanding what is on your site rather than just going, oh, keyword, cool, position three.
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:06.800
Yeah.
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:15.920
How do you think um it's just like a uh issue that we're having?
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.360
I'm curious like your take on this.
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:17.599
Yeah.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:18.880
We're using Webflow.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:19.599
Yeah.
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:25.360
And uh like we we did a programmatic project with serverscalers like three, four years.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.039
I don't even remember what I remember it.
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:36.000
And uh we got on Webflow and uh Sam Thompson like pushed that programmatic project out, and I don't even know how many freaking pages, it's like 20,000 or something.
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:37.440
Yeah, something ridiculous.
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:45.360
And one of the problems that we had is we ran out of like pages or categories or something.
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.760
Like, what do you what do you do?
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:53.920
Um, so if you like run out of the strengths of I'm sorry, to my point, bringing it back to this topic.
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.840
Yeah, one of the strengths of AI is that we can mass produce SEO.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:37:58.079
Yeah.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:04.400
And like you can take on a project like programmatic that, you know, 10 years ago was probably like a million-dollar project.
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:04.559
Yeah.
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:11.280
And Angie's list invested tens of millions of dollars into their website, and you can do it now for like not a million dollars, right?
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:13.119
Like you can do it somewhat affordably.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:26.400
Um, and we did that project in 2023, and I think that was a huge part of our growth over the net like next couple of years was we hit AI hard and fast when it first came out and covered everything in the world.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.199
And now it's like, okay, we did that.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.840
Now what should we be working on?
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:32.800
Yeah, sure.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:41.280
So I think like in uh a case like that, where you're like actually we've exhausted every service, we've exhausted every arm of every service, we've exhausted every location.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.440
20,000 or 17, somewhere in that range, like it was crazy.
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:46.000
Yeah.
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:56.079
If you've genuinely reached the limit of what you can uh produce in terms of like topic, um, obviously, like time goes on, there will be developments in all sorts of things.
00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:01.119
But if you are genuinely at the point where you're like, I've reached the absolute limit of this, then you just refresh the content.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:07.119
You add more expertise in there, you can add quotes from uh somebody that carries clout in the industry.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:19.199
Again, just building that trust, that authority, um, like expanding on the content, adding like um mixing up the FAQs, like researching what has changed since 2023 when those went up.
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:26.400
Maybe there will have been a massive shift in searches for a specific keyword that relates to something that wasn't a thing in 2023.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.239
So think of, for example, if there was like a big weather event somewhere that might have, I don't know, changed a hurricane or something.
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:40.000
Yeah, that's changed like the landscape of like a city or a town.
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:46.159
So there is always an opportunity to refresh content and it is always like it's never a bad thing.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:55.119
Obviously, if you have like a really well-written thousand-word page and you're just gonna bin it off of like 10 words and a picture of like a local landmark, then yeah, but there is always room to improve.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:59.440
Um, the key thing about SEO is and this is like said to death, but it's obviously never done.
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:00.880
It's never ever finished.
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:08.639
You can never get to a point where, like, oh, my SEO is finished, I can sit back now because there is always someone waiting on the wings to come and knock you off the top spot.
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:15.199
And once that happens, if you don't keep on top of that, then it's a domino effect and you just fall further and further and further down the surface.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.360
So um, yeah, even if you think you're done, you're definitely not.
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:20.159
Yeah.
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:24.639
As your business grows, the financial decisions get a lot more expensive.
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:29.280
Things like hiring techs, buying trucks, raising pricing, and marketing.
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:34.719
If you're making those decisions without really understanding your numbers, you're probably leaving a pile of money on the table.
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:36.480
And that's where profit and grit comes in.
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:41.360
Tyler has built, scaled, and sold a$25 million service business.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.400
So his advice comes from real operating experience.
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:54.000
You'll work with him directly to improve your cash flow, understand your margins, and build better forecasts to make you more confident as you make decisions as you grow.
00:40:54.159 --> 00:41:00.480
One client increased bottom line profit by 11% after fixing pricing, improving job mix, and stabilizing their cash flow.
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:08.639
If you're doing between three and five million a year and you want more clarity around your finances, book a free 20-minute strategy call at the link below.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:13.280
There's a company, um, and this still freaking cracks me up.
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:22.159
So there's two companies, but one of them specifically is like they're not uh they're not a good like local plumbing company.
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:26.880
Like they're not great marketers, they're not um, I don't know.
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:29.119
I don't think they've actually grown in like 15 years.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:37.199
Like I think they've been at$2 million for literally 15 years, like which, you know, I it is kind of impressive in its own right.
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:54.960
Uh they own page one of Google, and I do not understand how for the fucking life of me, because we have put so much work into SEO, and they still show up like top five searches for Plumber Akron.
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.519
And I'm just like, that's crazy.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.000
So, like, what do you think I can do to kick them off?
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:09.199
Um, so my first like first stop on that journey would be to do like a obviously like a third party audit of their site, figure out what they're doing in the background.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:09.599
Yeah.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:16.559
Um, so look at the backlinks that they've got, look at how long their site has been established, look at how often they're publishing content.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:19.519
I don't think they've touched their website, like they couldn't have.
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:21.679
The business has gone nowhere in 15 years.
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:22.480
Yeah, sure.
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:26.079
Then in that case, then I would say that um strong brand recognition.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.440
Is it well known in the area?
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.440
Do people like if you say it, does some someone in the street would they know who you're talking about?
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:33.440
Maybe.
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.360
Then backlinks.
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:36.800
Like it's crazy.
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:40.159
Like, I bet I could look right now and they're still like it's wild.
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:41.280
Yeah, that is wild.
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:42.320
I'd like to have a look at it.
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:42.960
I'll show you.
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:43.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:43.920
I'll show you.
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:45.119
So there's two of them.
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.119
So one of them like earned it.
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.239
Like they they did good, the business is good, and like I'm like, okay, like, you know, pop off.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:54.880
But yeah, the other one is just like, what how?
00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:56.639
How are you doing this?
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.400
Um, it it it's it's really uh like genuinely wild to me.
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:15.440
Okay, so authority now was back, probably still is backlinks, but like, you know, you're you're talking about like quoting influencers or quoting like big people in the space to drive more authority.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.840
Can you give us some examples that are like home service-y?
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:19.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:27.840
So um, if we were, for example, someone was going to write an article um about um loft insulation, for example.
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.400
Okay.
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:33.679
So um, in that article, you would want to have direct quotes from somebody.
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:41.280
Um, they don't have to be well known, um, but as long as Google can recognize that this person is knowledgeable and is an authority on this subject.
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:47.440
So I'm sure there's some big players in the loft insulation world that aren't well known by anyone outside of it.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:44:05.519
Um, but um, adding like expert insights from those kind of people and marking those things up in the back end um with like structured data and just feeding into that um this is useful, helpful content delivered by an expert, not just some random guy who's thrown a page up on a website.
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:06.239
Yeah.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:06.880
Okay.