The Science of Lasting Motivation in Endurance Sports Ep 155

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Hello, and welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast.
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I'm your host, Coach Chris Newport, and uh technical difficulties.
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We're gonna make it this one today, you guys.
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I swear.
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Anyway, we've got a special guest today, Dr.
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Sarah Gordon.
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And um, let's see, how did we originally meet?
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I think that you sent an email to fellow Traffon coaches.
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Does that sound like ring a bell?
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You're like, I'm starting this traath on related podcast, and I would love to have some guests on.
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And yeah, uh, so I was like, oh, all things traffon related, of course, let's do the things.
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And you have got such an interesting journey, thus, the name of your podcast, right?
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So, Sarah, tell us a little bit about your journey in endurance sports, how that took you to your PhD, and how that eventually led to your podcast.
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That was a big question, by the way.
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So take it away.
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Okay, well, so to start, this is the first time I've been on the other side.
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Isn't it cool?
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It's so fun.
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Yes, yeah, you can a little bit.
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Yeah, I'm the interviewer, so this is good.
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So I appreciate the opportunity to be here, share my journey, and um, and hopefully inspire people through my story.
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Um, I know that the guests I have on my show, which is and Chris, you've been on my show.
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I'm so grateful for that.
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It's called the PhD Journey Unplugged.
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And um, I meet such incredible people on the show, they inspire me so much with their stories, and so um, and I learned so much from that.
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So I'll try to share some of that wisdom with your guests.
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But so let's see, my journey.
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Well, I remember the first time I ran, I was 15 years old.
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Wow, I can remember it clearly.
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And so, yeah, what makes it stick out so much?
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It was a beautiful because I love to run at night.
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It was a beautiful evening.
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It was the summer, probably summer.
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It was definitely warmer out.
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I don't know, just the elements.
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I've always been about the elements.
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My license plate for years was for elements.
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I have a tattoo on my shoulders to strength and endurance.
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I mean, it's always just been part of me to be physically active and enjoy being out in the elements, running, whatever over the years that I've done.
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But I remember this first run, and I just kind of fell in love with it.
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It was maybe it was just what you feel, the runner's high, too.
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It just all came together for me.
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And so that has always kind of been in my life, even as I approached 60.
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Um, I still love it.
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So I had that all along for many years.
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Fell off the tracks here and there, but found my way back.
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You know how it works.
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And then in my 20s, uh, I always loved to swim, never competitively, but just love to swim.
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And in my 20s, I tried my first triathlon.
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It was the Rust and triathlon.
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And I had I had an old Schwin bike.
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Oh, that thing was heavy.
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It was like a it was like a steel tank.
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Yeah, but those things are like unbreakable, you know.
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Yeah, but like for your first triathlon, did it work?
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No, I don't, but like for your first triathlon going up, you know, the hills and uh resting trathlon, which was it was which is still they still hold that race.
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It's a great race.
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Cool.
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Um, it was um it was hard.
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I was that bike and I had some words on that hill.
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But that was in my 20s, and then I just kind of went on and worked differently, you know, got my bachelor's, my master's, and raised my family and um worked, I worked in the government, I was a research analyst, I found my way into as a marketing director, which to a certain extent is market research.
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So I always kind of did research.
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And I was sitting in a job about six years ago, and I was like, you know, I think I really want to go for something I've always wanted to study health and human performance, exercise science, exercise physiology, and just go for it.
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I mean, the kids were you know either graduating college or you know, in college, and uh it just seemed like the right time.
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And um, so I did it, took a leap of faith at age 53 and went back to get my doctorate in health leadership and health and human performance.
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Best decision I ever made in my life, totally shifted my life towards so much more alignment.
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I talk about on my show all the time how important it is to find things in your life that you enjoy, where you feel authentically yourself.
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And so that allowed me to move in that direction.
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And during that journey, um I was doing triathlon.
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And I I would see older, you know, I was doing I did a couple half iron and you know, some sprints, and I would just see older people at these races, you know.
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I didn't know their exact age, but I knew they had to be 70s or 80s, or you could actually see on their leg, you know, sometimes.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I I really seriously thought to myself, um I wonder what motivates them to be so highly physically active at later stages of life.
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How did they get there?
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How do they stay there?
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What does successful aging look like?
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And those were just the questions that you know getting your PhD and or doing research, it just starts with curiosity and a question or questions.
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And those were my questions.
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And so that's that was the foundation of my dissertation research based on those questions.
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So I built the whole project based on what, you know, the exercise motivations of older athletes, 65 and older, and their perspectives on successful aging.
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So in that process, I made a lot of connections.
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I, you know, I just learned a lot um through the through you know the dissertation uh project.
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And um when I completed my doctorate, uh May 2025, um I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do with it, quite quite honestly.
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And I thought a friend of mine had a few years earlier said, You you should launch a podcast.
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No, I could never do a podcast.
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And then I completed my doctorate and I said, you know what?
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I think I'm gonna try a podcast.
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And uh now I'm in my second year, approaching episode 77.
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Nice.
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I like you mentioned, I reached out to people through email.
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Hey, you want to come on my show?
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The triathlon community was incredible, so responsive, so positive, so excited.
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And um, that so that's where I launched it, you know, within the triathlon community.
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That's um, and that, and you know, and just yesterday I'm gonna launch an episode uh later today, actually, episode 77.
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I just had a gentleman on my show who's a uh been living with cystic fibrosis um since uh to genetic um disease through birth.
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And his story is just one of like hope and resilience and motivation and passion and purpose.
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And so I'm still I I'm having just I feel like whether you're on an Iron Man journey, a Traslan journey, an athletic journey, it's very similar to other people's journeys and how they can you know choose to live um positive, productive lives.
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So I'm you know, I'm spreading my wings a bit on the show, but um, but the message is the same uh you know throughout all the episodes.
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So that's that's where I'm at.
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That's that's the journey.
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And uh the PhD journey, the name, it was because I learned and we'll talk about it.
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Uh we learn I learned so many lessons, so many lessons on that journey that are very similar to an athletic journey, an academic journey, a personal journey, a professional journey.
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They're very, all very similar lessons, you know, across all these different ways of living our lives.
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Okay, yeah.
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So tell us about some of those lessons.
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Give us give us some examples.
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So I I think, like you know, you're a triathlete and you coach athletes.
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I think you get to points in your life where you want to quit.
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You just want to quit something.
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You you're tired.
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There are lots of reasons, you know.
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When we get to that point, that breaking point, a lot of times it's fatigue, you're not getting good enough sleep, your life is out of balance, you are tipping the scale too much in one, maybe you're overtraining, you're not recovering, your nutrition, your hydration, all those things that make you it, you know, in influence optimal performance.
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It's the same in any endeavor in your life, whether you're um working in medical school, in law school, getting your PhD, an emergency room physician.
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It we call it the long game of human performance, right?
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So the lessons I learned is that you have to set boundaries in your life.
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Uh you have to, if you're getting to this these breaking points, which you know, burnout.
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We can all experience burnout as an athlete.
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It's professional, as a parent.
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When you're getting to these kind of breaking points, it's it means something's out of balance.
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So that's a huge lesson I learned.
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I learned it in very lots of different ways.
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Um, and I made a joke.
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I I was fortunate enough to give the commencement address at graduation.
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And I I did, you know, my lessons learned, and I made a joke like when you feel like quitting, you know, to your audience, take a nap.
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I know it's a silly lesson, but it it's like really just take a nap.
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You'll give it a fresh perspective on anything that you're any goal that you're going after in your life.
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So that was a huge lesson I learned about setting a friend of mine in school.
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The first time he said it, I thought, wow, that sounds so super selfish.
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But he's like, you know, you need to set non-negotiable time.
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Non-negotiable time is time that you, you know, it's just not, it's, it's, it's about you.
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If it's 15 minutes or it's an hour, however it works in your life.
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Everybody's lives and journeys are different.
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But so when I started to learn how to set non-negotiable time, which for me was, you know, early morning running or meditation or prayer, I mean, things started to get more in balance.
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So that's my first major, major lesson.
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Um are we getting a taste of this commencement speech?
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Because this is awesome.
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It was fun.
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I mean, the other thing the other thing I learned was be open to learning.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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I've noticed like a lot of times people dig themselves into a hole because they just think they just know how to do everything.
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Yeah.
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And if you keep yourself open to learning from other people, you you will be surprised how much it can, you know, improve your experience in whatever you're doing.
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And then uh, I don't know, just be grateful.
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Grateful.
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Marilyn, who uh Marilyn Ward, Dr.
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Marilyn Ward, who started my podcast with me, we used to always laugh, like, be grateful for the hard.
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Because you learn a lot.
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You learn a lot in the hard.
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So, you know, lean into it sometimes.
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Yeah.
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You know, the obstacles teach us.
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There's a wonderful book, Ryan Holliday, uh, The Obstacle is the way.
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I highly recommend it.
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Um, because we all have obstacles, they come at us in different ways.
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Um and so we we learn a lot in that.
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So that's the thing.
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Getting your PhD is a five-year goal, right?
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And a lot of life happens in uh five years, and so you're challenged.
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You know, I've I've had guests on my show who've done like the Epic DECA, you know, or like JD Tramble or Carrie Mandel, who ran the World Marathon Challenge, seven marathons, seven continents, seven days.
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I mean, I've had people that really challenge themselves, and you're gonna have every emotion and every feeling and every, you know.
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So just I guess the lesson there from the academic journey to the athletic journey is um have some fun.
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Yeah.
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Remember, you're putting yourself in the hard.
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Yeah.
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Enjoy it.
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Enjoy the journey.
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Yeah.
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I know sometimes it can be hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you will.
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You know, you just feel like the tunnel is so dark, and it's like, well, I know the way back.
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I could just give up, and you know, but like what's on the other side is so much better than you perhaps could have imagined.
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Yeah, I had a shift in my thinking, and maybe this might help your listeners.
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Probably in my third or fourth class, I I, you know, you go into hard things, whether it's you're training for an Iron Man or you're training for a doctorate, and you start to question, do I belong here?
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Am I good enough to be here?
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Do I look like everybody around me?
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You know, they call it imposter syndrome.
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And the truth is with all of that, like you're always gonna feel a little bit unsure of yourself when you're doing something for the first time or something new.
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And so when you shift your thinking to like, this is my journey.
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I'm here because I want to be here.
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I'm gonna learn from my community, and you know, I'm gonna be a part of it, but but ultimately I'm here because I want to be here, and it shifts your thinking, and you then you you enjoy the journey, you embrace the journey.
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So it was perhaps changes the trajectory a little bit just because you're um it's almost like your energy shifts.
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It does.
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You stop comparing yourself to other people.
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Listen, if you're at a starting line and you're looking around and you're like, oh, I'm not this, I'm not that.
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I mean, just stop.
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You're there because you want to be there, you're there because it's fun, you're there because you you worked hard to get there.
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You're there because you know, it's where you want to be.
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So when you shift it, yeah, your energy changes and you can um, I'm not saying these things aren't hard, right?
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It's discipline, consistency, hard work.
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You need these things to achieve goals, you know, especially when they're lofty goals.
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Yeah.
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Um, but when you shift your mindset to I'm here really because I want to be in this hard, it totally changes your perspective on life.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It makes it so much more rewarding and fulfilling.
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That's awesome.
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So, mindset is one of them.
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And I know you talked a lot about motivation.
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So, what in your PhD process did you learn about motivation?
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And feel free to throw some like fancy terms at us.
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You know, like uh like FTP and PO2 Max and let's let's like you know, psychological terms that we have absolutely around.
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Well, I will tell you, just let me just as far as physical activity, I mean, I've had the guests on my show and I'm and I'm learning myself about it.
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I'm not, you know, a performance coach like like you are, but I know um VO2 max is associated with all-cause mortality, which means that the less conditioned, the more deconditioned your body is, you know, the the worse your ability to absorb oxygen in your system, the more likely you're gonna have other issues.
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So it's a strong motivator for exercising, the way we transfer oxygen efficiently through our, you know, physiological systems.
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So um, so I do love the science based of it all, of everything I've learned in terms of the neuromuscular system and the cardiovascular system.
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But my background's in psychology, and I find motivation fascinating.
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And motivation is highly complex.
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Yeah, we're highly individualized.
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So what motivates you doesn't necessarily motivate me.
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Um, and it's very dynamic.
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So when you understand that, and when I say these things, just keep in mind that it's very individualized.
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But I study motivation within a theoretical framework called self-determination theory.
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Okay.
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I just came home from a conference in Geneva, Switzerland, all on self-determination theory.
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There were practitioners and researchers from across the world who were there to talk about this theoretical framework, which can be applied to so many different aspects of life: sports, wellness, mental health, healthcare, K through 12, education, the business world, philosophy, policy, government, how governments, politics, how governments govern.
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It's just a fascinating framework.
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And don't get me wrong, there's lots of theories out there and frameworks to study human behavior.
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But self-determination, and and I'll make the loop back to triathlon and what I found in my research.
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But self-determination theory says we have three basic psychological needs: the need for autonomy, the need for competence, and the need for relatedness.
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Okay.
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Autonomy means that we take actions in our life to do the things that we want to do, that we feel freedom, that we feel empowerment to take those actions, to be a trahlete, to be a PhD student, to follow the things that that bring joy and purpose and meaning into our lives.
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Okay.
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And it's a process to get there, right?
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We're not always there.
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It's a continuum to get to being a living a fully autonomous life.
00:19:21.069 --> 00:19:26.829
Competence is that you acquire skill sets in your life that allow you to do these things, right?
00:19:26.990 --> 00:19:38.829
To to ride your bike, to transition quickly, to be a triathlete, to problem solve, to do all this to prepare, to understand pacing and nutrition and hydration.
00:19:39.389 --> 00:19:40.829
Those are skill sets.
00:19:41.149 --> 00:19:42.509
That's competency.
00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:48.670
And the more competent you feel in something, the more likely you have confidence in it.
00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:49.069
Right.
00:19:49.230 --> 00:19:51.149
And enjoy it.
00:19:51.309 --> 00:19:52.909
And then the third is relatedness.
00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:54.750
It's community, it's sense of community.
00:19:54.829 --> 00:19:57.629
We all we're not meant to be isolated.
00:19:57.789 --> 00:19:59.309
We are social human beings.
00:19:59.470 --> 00:20:02.750
We we thrive in sense of community.
00:20:02.990 --> 00:20:03.309
Okay.
00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:26.029
So when you have autonomy, competence, and relatedness, you're more likely to be living your life more intrinsically motivated, which means that you are taking at your things like I compete against myself, I challenge myself, I want to live a healthy lifestyle, I I want to do this, that, or the other thing.
00:20:26.190 --> 00:20:30.750
So when you live more intrinsically lives, you're more likely to enjoy your life.
00:20:30.829 --> 00:20:34.750
And that's the ultimate goal is human flourishing and human thriving.
00:20:35.149 --> 00:20:35.470
Okay.
00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:47.309
So my research, I found a pattern with older triathlete using statements like, I do it because I enjoy it.
00:20:47.549 --> 00:20:48.829
I do it because it's fun.
00:20:48.990 --> 00:20:50.750
I love the camaraderie ship.
00:20:50.909 --> 00:20:54.909
I love to compete against myself, but I love to be in the community.
00:20:55.069 --> 00:20:58.430
Not things like I'm doing it for the reward of winning.
00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:00.029
Now winning feels good.
00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:01.629
We all know that.
00:21:01.789 --> 00:21:04.349
But that's not the driver, right?
00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:12.750
That's not getting people uh training to the finish line and carrying them past the finish line to the next race that they sign up for.
00:21:12.909 --> 00:21:15.629
It's it's enjoyment, it's something that comes from within.
00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:25.389
And so I found that that in my research, um, a strong motivator, exercise uh motivator was enjoyment.
00:21:27.869 --> 00:21:32.269
Health benefits, physical health benefits of exercising, which we know.
00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:37.549
We know that there's so many wonderful um physiological benefits to exercising.
00:21:37.789 --> 00:21:43.230
And the third major theme in my research was um community, triathlon community.
00:21:43.789 --> 00:22:04.750
You know, people excited to make new friends, excited to see existing friends, excited to travel, you know, through the USAT platform of worlds and nationals and seeing people, friends they hadn't seen in a while, um, training with older uh athletes, training with younger athletes, it just this whole sense of community.
00:22:05.389 --> 00:22:28.670
And so within self-determination theory, which was really beautiful, I had an opportunity presented in Geneva, is um it fits so my findings fit so beautifully with self-determination theory, you know, because autonomy is being a triathlete, competence is having the skill set to be able to do a triathlon, and relatedness is the triathlon community.
00:22:28.829 --> 00:22:32.589
And um, so it was it was it was a beautiful thing to see.
00:22:32.829 --> 00:22:33.470
Yeah.
00:22:33.869 --> 00:22:35.230
Wow, I love that.
00:22:35.470 --> 00:22:55.309
And um, when I was on your podcast, we talked exactly about that, which was so cool that I was talking about like our club and our community and how we do our training camps to help people be more skilled, thus, you know, fitting fabulously into your framework.
00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:58.990
You know, we did that all intentionally, Sarah.
00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:03.629
You built it, you built it to work, you built it to be successful.
00:23:03.789 --> 00:23:04.029
Yeah.
00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:06.750
And that's when you understand these things.
00:23:07.149 --> 00:23:14.589
Um, because ultimately we want people to be successful, we want people to enjoy their lives and to um have fulfilling lives.
00:23:14.750 --> 00:23:18.589
Like I always say on my podcast, like, so much of life is random.
00:23:19.230 --> 00:23:19.470
Right?
00:23:19.549 --> 00:23:23.549
We there's so much we cannot control, but there's a lot we can.
00:23:23.629 --> 00:23:33.950
We can control our attitude toward things, we can control the actions that we take in our lives, the things we choose to eat, the activities we choose to do, the people we choose to connect with.
00:23:34.349 --> 00:23:37.230
So, you know, um, yeah.
00:23:37.629 --> 00:23:39.789
So that's so cool.
00:23:40.029 --> 00:23:40.909
I love that.
00:23:41.230 --> 00:23:41.869
Wow.
00:23:42.190 --> 00:23:50.190
Um, has going through this process of doing your PhD made you shift your thinking in any way?
00:23:50.349 --> 00:23:53.149
I know you came in like super curious and with all these questions.
00:23:53.309 --> 00:24:04.829
Were there things that surprised you or um made you think differently, perhaps that's a great question.
00:24:08.829 --> 00:24:09.950
I have to think about that one.
00:24:10.109 --> 00:24:10.269
Yeah.
00:24:10.509 --> 00:24:11.309
That's a good question.
00:24:11.549 --> 00:24:11.869
Yes.
00:24:12.109 --> 00:24:15.149
Next podcast we will be talking about this.
00:24:17.069 --> 00:24:22.750
Um, we we come in, like you said, just curious.
00:24:22.829 --> 00:24:24.750
Like, let me think more about this.
00:24:24.829 --> 00:24:38.750
And uh, it's also making me think of uh you and I have talked pretty extensively about Natalie Gribeau, which uh whom I had on my podcast was the eight-year-old uh role breaking um Iron Man champion.
00:24:38.909 --> 00:24:50.829
And I went into that interview, sort of having one notion about her, and then left being like, wow, that was not at all what I was expecting, and it was similarly great.
00:24:52.109 --> 00:24:58.990
You know, so yeah, I thought it in one way and then be like, huh, okay, all right.
00:24:59.789 --> 00:25:04.990
Like you had mentioned, like just being open and uh ready for just a different way of thinking.
00:25:05.069 --> 00:25:17.549
And I think it's so easy in this, certainly in this sport, and you know, so many people in this sport are just very hard driving in other areas of their life, and it's easy to put something in a box.
00:25:17.629 --> 00:25:28.509
Like, no, this is exactly how I address my FTP or how I address my ability to train for this event or that event or whatever.
00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:34.829
And if you give them other opportunities, it's almost like no, no, no, no, that overwhelms me a little bit too much.
00:25:34.990 --> 00:25:42.909
So it's almost like if I just stay in my lane or stay in my sort of fixed way of thinking, it almost makes the decision making easier.
00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:44.990
I see this in nutrition too.
00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:53.710
So um yeah, it's almost like it makes it easier in a way for us to stay stuck, possibly, and to not be curious.
00:25:55.069 --> 00:26:04.829
I feel like the answer to your question, the reason I was struggling with it a little bit, is something that C Steve Jobs um fame famously said.
00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:08.829
Um sometimes you can't connect the dots.
00:26:10.029 --> 00:26:12.509
Well, you really can't connect the dots looking forward.
00:26:12.589 --> 00:26:15.389
You can only connect them looking back sometimes.
00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:15.950
Yeah.
00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:24.349
So for me to answer your question, I think the thing that's most surprising, I I loved the journey of learning.
00:26:24.750 --> 00:26:26.029
And I loved it.
00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:28.190
It was a joke amongst my peers.
00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:30.990
I I fell in love with the neuromuscular junction.
00:26:31.389 --> 00:26:44.269
I know it's silly, it's a little area within the body, within our physiology where there's a communication between cells that are involved in like motor, you know, neuron communication.
00:26:44.349 --> 00:26:48.670
I mean, it's just very like I really did fall in love with that.
00:26:48.990 --> 00:26:54.909
But so I love the academic journey, but here's what my connecting dots looking back told me.
00:26:54.990 --> 00:26:56.589
And may this help your audience.
00:26:58.990 --> 00:27:00.509
I think it's the journey.
00:27:00.670 --> 00:27:04.109
It's why my podcast is called the PhD journey.
00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:06.750
It's why I always say strength for the journey within.
00:27:06.909 --> 00:27:14.269
I I think that we set our mind on goals and performance and metrics and data and outcome.
00:27:14.430 --> 00:27:19.629
But I I'm here to remind you, it's don't forget what you're learning on that that journey.
00:27:19.869 --> 00:27:21.710
Because yeah, I love have being Dr.
00:27:21.789 --> 00:27:22.589
Sarah Gordon.
00:27:22.670 --> 00:27:24.589
I'm happy I got the PhD.
00:27:25.149 --> 00:27:27.789
I made great friendships.
00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:29.869
I learned so much in five years.
00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:44.750
I mean, there were so many things that there's no way I just being curious about a question, there's no way I could have understood the gravity, the depth of what that experience would have brought to my life.
00:27:45.069 --> 00:27:55.309
And so I think for me, it's it was it's now when I look back on it all, it was it's just about the journey of life.
00:27:55.629 --> 00:28:03.629
Whatever you pursue, if you're going for an Iron Man, yeah, when you finish that Iron Man, it's gonna I mean, I haven't done one.
00:28:03.789 --> 00:28:06.509
I can imagine it's like the best feeling in your life.
00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:06.990
Yeah.
00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:12.909
And then when you reflect on it, you you think about all everything that got you to that to that moment in life, you know?
00:28:13.389 --> 00:28:15.389
So that that that's my answer there.
00:28:15.470 --> 00:28:16.670
I mean that's awesome.
00:28:16.909 --> 00:28:25.069
And that, I mean, I know you mentioned Iron Man, um, but that was how I felt after I finished my first draath on, which was a sprint.
00:28:25.230 --> 00:28:27.710
And I know so many people are like, oh, I'm just doing the sprint.
00:28:27.789 --> 00:28:29.789
I'm like, people, please stop saying that.
00:28:30.109 --> 00:28:31.710
Like fast.
00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:32.829
You gotta go fast.
00:28:33.069 --> 00:28:33.309
Yeah.
00:28:34.589 --> 00:28:41.629
It's just it's not just a sprint or just a 5k, like, you know, own whatever event you're doing.
00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:47.710
But that's how I felt when I finished my first race of like, holy smokes, I did that.
00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:54.909
And the process that got me there, and the way that all the different puzzle pieces had to fit together.
00:28:55.149 --> 00:29:06.990
And um, and that started the that basically was the impetus to the company that I've grown today, is that everyone deserves to feel that.
00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:16.829
Like, holy smokes, I just did that, and to reflect back and be like, dang, that was hard, but also, whoa, look at me now.
00:29:17.950 --> 00:29:23.230
You know, the the American College of Sports Medicine says it so brilliant, brilliant.
00:29:23.549 --> 00:29:25.149
I can't say the word brilliantly.
00:29:25.389 --> 00:29:26.670
Brilliantly, yes.
00:29:27.069 --> 00:29:29.069
I always struggle with some of my words.
00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:42.349
Um, they say that they they are the like governing bot, you know, they they put out position statements on recommendations for exercise, for healthy individuals, for you know, people managing chronic illnesses and whatnot.
00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:48.990
And they say that um the way they word it is um any any movement is better than no movement.
00:29:49.789 --> 00:30:10.509
And so the the philosophy is like wherever you are, whether you're doing a sprint, Olympic, a half iron man, an iron man, like wherever you are on that journey, on that, on that continuum of fitness, wherever you want to be at that point in time, maybe you you maybe you've tried it and you just you would rather stay in a shorter distance.
00:30:10.589 --> 00:30:18.269
It's more fun, or you know, whatever, whatever it motivates you to be where you're at, doing something is always better than doing nothing.
00:30:18.509 --> 00:30:18.990
Absolutely.
00:30:19.230 --> 00:30:28.190
And so I think that with that philosophy is just give yourself some grace that like you know you're out there to have fun and to enjoy it.
00:30:28.349 --> 00:30:48.670
And that's the research is very clear on that long-term adherence to physical activity is enjoyment, or or long-term adherence to and I'm gonna broaden it, I'd have to research it, but I'm gonna just say, based on my own research, long-term adherence to anything in life is enjoyment.
00:30:49.069 --> 00:30:53.549
And so if you enjoy being at a shorter distance, then that's where you should be.
00:30:53.710 --> 00:30:54.589
Yeah, right.
00:30:55.149 --> 00:31:02.829
And so um, yeah, I think that that's it's true, you know, just we're all very hard on ourselves.
00:31:03.069 --> 00:31:18.269
We are all so hard on ourselves, and as you're saying this, it's making me think of the journey of aging through sport through and in particular in through the lens of inurosports.
00:31:18.430 --> 00:31:27.629
Um, you know, I started as a runner and then got into Traphon, but you know, we just had our race this past weekend, and our youngest competitor was 12 and our oldest was 75.
00:31:27.789 --> 00:31:28.909
Like that's that's amazing.
00:31:29.389 --> 00:31:30.670
So freaking cool.
00:31:31.470 --> 00:31:34.670
Um but those journeys are different.
00:31:34.909 --> 00:31:45.230
And the 75-year-old, when he came to registration, yeah, we had swim caps for um swimmers who feel like they might need a little bit more attention in the water.
00:31:45.470 --> 00:31:47.470
So he was asking for a red swim cap.
00:31:47.549 --> 00:31:52.349
I was like, oh, you know, like are are do you know why you're asking for that?
00:31:52.430 --> 00:31:56.430
You know, rather than just being like, oh, red is pretty, and I don't want the blue one.
00:31:56.670 --> 00:31:58.269
So just like clarifying with him.
00:31:58.430 --> 00:32:03.789
He's like, he's like, well, I'm like a hundred years old, so I figure somebody better keep an eye on me.
00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:06.349
I was like, okay, seriously, how old are you?
00:32:07.470 --> 00:32:30.829
So um that I think in our heads, like, okay, well, when I was 12 or when I was 20 or when I was 30 or whatever, I did 15 Ironmans, or I ran five minute miles, or and then I had a hip resurfacing, or I had a knee replacement, or I had um, you know, death in the family, or something like that.
00:32:31.230 --> 00:32:44.349
And to your point, giving themselves grace to let activity and the sport or a sport look different and be different because it is all part of the journey.
00:32:44.430 --> 00:32:50.509
It doesn't have to be when you're 75, the sport is gonna look different than when you're 30.
00:32:50.990 --> 00:32:51.470
Absolutely right.
00:32:53.389 --> 00:32:54.990
It's adaptability.
00:32:55.549 --> 00:33:04.430
You have to to be successful, I believe, in life, you have to be flexible and adaptable, right?
00:33:04.589 --> 00:33:18.190
You have to give yourself some grace to say, at 60, I'm not the same runner I was at 15, but I still love running and I still can push myself to be the best version of myself at this age.
00:33:18.430 --> 00:33:18.750
Yeah.
00:33:19.470 --> 00:33:27.789
So when you come, when you make peace with yourself and you stop comparing yourself to past versions of yourself, you're gonna find so much more enjoyment in what you're doing.
00:33:28.190 --> 00:33:28.430
Right.
00:33:28.589 --> 00:33:34.029
That's ultimately the goal is to enjoy the the activities that you have, you know, in your life.
00:33:34.269 --> 00:33:54.349
So I think when we compare ourselves to past versions of ourselves or to past performance, look, you can use it in terms of like wanting to be the I am all about wanting to be the best version of myself I can be, but you have to recognize that my your body is it's called sarcopenia.
00:33:54.750 --> 00:33:57.869
As we get older, our body changes.
00:33:58.269 --> 00:34:00.589
We we're not gonna live forever.
00:34:00.750 --> 00:34:01.869
We can't control that.
00:34:02.029 --> 00:34:08.909
You know, we can't control the actual biology and physiology and all the things that happen in terms of longevity.
00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:15.470
Now, there's a lot of really interesting research going on in terms of longevity, and we are living longer for sure.
00:34:15.710 --> 00:34:16.269
I don't know.
00:34:16.430 --> 00:34:17.550
I have to double check that.
00:34:17.630 --> 00:34:20.110
At one point, I I read we were, I'm not sure.
00:34:20.510 --> 00:34:24.030
We we fell off a little bit in COVID, and now we're sort of rebounding.
00:34:24.430 --> 00:34:25.550
Going back to it, yeah.
00:34:25.789 --> 00:34:29.230
Yeah, but but we want to live those added years with good health.
00:34:29.309 --> 00:34:32.430
I always say lifespan doesn't necessarily equal health span.
00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:36.030
So we want to live those added years in good health.
00:34:36.269 --> 00:34:42.909
So um, yeah, so give yourself some grace, recognize that aging is a process, yeah.
00:34:43.150 --> 00:34:56.110
And um, and that physical activity, your mental health, your physical health, your relationships and your lives are all really important in terms of aging successfully and um and quality of life too, you know.
00:34:56.349 --> 00:35:05.389
And it seems like it ties into your dissertation about these aging traphes and maybe their motivation.
00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:09.630
Like how what did you see in that process?
00:35:09.789 --> 00:35:16.909
I mean, I know the big thing was enjoyment, but well, I love my I love my dissertation research so much.
00:35:17.070 --> 00:35:20.269
I so here's a lesson for your audience.
00:35:20.590 --> 00:35:23.710
Sometimes you just have to pivot, it's beyond your control.
00:35:23.869 --> 00:35:26.989
You can hem and haul all you want, but you gotta pivot.
00:35:27.230 --> 00:35:46.110
I was in my program for three years thinking I was gonna do aquatic-based exercise with Alzheimer's patients because I think that the water and exercising the water has tremendous properties for aging with good health and and just awakening, awakening our brains and our bodies.
00:35:46.190 --> 00:35:49.469
So I just I I love to swim, I love to be in the water.
00:35:49.630 --> 00:35:58.670
And I I'd witnessed some of the stuff with my father who had Alzheimer's, and I would take him to the pool, and he would wake up and I was like, wow, there's something to this.
00:35:58.829 --> 00:35:59.150
Yeah.
00:35:59.389 --> 00:36:03.150
And three years into the program, I was told, no, you can't do it.
00:36:03.230 --> 00:36:13.309
There for dissertation research study, it would have to have been a case study, which they don't they they don't necessarily like to do case studies for a dissertation research project.
00:36:13.469 --> 00:36:16.829
They like us, they like to challenge us with larger sample sizes.
00:36:17.150 --> 00:36:27.869
And um, and Alzheimer's, um, there's something called the institutional review board, which your study has to get approved through, um, is considered a high-risk population.
00:36:28.029 --> 00:36:32.590
It it's doable, but not a little lofty for a PhD student.
00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:32.989
Okay.
00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:37.309
So I literally had to go back and look within to say, okay, well, what do I enjoy?
00:36:37.469 --> 00:36:38.590
What would be interesting?
00:36:38.829 --> 00:36:41.550
I'm seeing these triathletes at these races.
00:36:41.789 --> 00:36:44.110
And then then the questions started.
00:36:44.269 --> 00:36:55.789
And um, I went back, did the literature review, I found that there was a significant gap in the research with older triathlones that wasn't performance-based or talking about decline as we get older.
00:36:56.029 --> 00:37:05.389
Um, it there's all there's research on sports participation as we age, but not specifically older triathletes, and definitely not the way I studied it.
00:37:05.550 --> 00:37:08.190
So mine was the first study of its kind.
00:37:08.829 --> 00:37:11.789
And so, what did I find with successful aging?
00:37:14.029 --> 00:37:16.110
You know, it's all kind of interconnected.
00:37:16.269 --> 00:37:19.630
I don't think you can say it's anything siloed.
00:37:19.710 --> 00:37:26.110
I think we we know through research that physical activity is very important in aging.
00:37:26.429 --> 00:37:28.750
Okay, it has so many benefits.
00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:31.550
Um, we all we all know that.
00:37:32.349 --> 00:37:38.509
There's the the level, the recommendations, you know, I that's a whole nother podcast.
00:37:38.670 --> 00:37:44.429
Yeah to dive into all of that and what the ACSM says and what research is saying about all that kind of stuff.
00:37:44.670 --> 00:37:46.829
Um can you exercise too much?
00:37:46.989 --> 00:37:48.509
Can you do anything too much?
00:37:49.070 --> 00:37:50.509
Perhaps, right?
00:37:50.670 --> 00:37:55.230
Injury, injury is a good signal, burnout, all those kinds of things.
00:37:55.550 --> 00:38:04.750
And then um, like I said earlier, um, beyond physical activity, and I uh in my research, I call it um uh healthy living.
00:38:04.829 --> 00:38:08.670
There's a lot to it cognitive health, physical health.
00:38:09.070 --> 00:38:14.829
Um, there's a lot that feeds into healthy living is this sense of community.
00:38:14.909 --> 00:38:21.710
I think as you get older, uh sadly, I do think there are older people later in life who are isolated.
00:38:22.429 --> 00:38:27.309
And I have a friend who ran a study um a little bit different than mine.
00:38:27.389 --> 00:38:31.150
He he looked at older adults who um had mild depression.
00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:46.269
And so, you know, there there is there is a a dynamic that older people who are who are isolated and they they suffer more things like depression and loneliness and things like that.
00:38:46.590 --> 00:39:03.949
I think social connection relationships, uh however they look in your life, um, you know, going to sports or craft, being creative or you know, like a community center.
00:39:04.110 --> 00:39:04.190
Yeah.
00:39:04.349 --> 00:39:05.150
I think it's important.
00:39:05.309 --> 00:39:10.509
I think it it it helps uh keep things such as depression and loneliness um at bay.
00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:11.070
Yes.
00:39:11.230 --> 00:39:29.949
So and as you're saying this, I'm thinking about um again, Natalie Grabo, who part of her ability to race is because her um husband uh was in a health condition who was not able to help her.
00:39:30.190 --> 00:39:45.949
She had to lean on her kids and onto some of her other friends slash neighbors and other, you know, fellow athletes to help her with transporting her bike and making sure that she got to all the, you know, helping her put her things together.
00:39:46.029 --> 00:39:54.029
And, you know, obviously she built that degree of competence to do some of it herself, but um, you know, she needed a little bit of help.
00:39:54.190 --> 00:40:03.070
And yeah, I think that it seems to me that as we age, we want to reach out less.
00:40:03.309 --> 00:40:19.389
And that seems like what you're saying is no, you need to ask for help because whether you're gonna go to your crafting class and a bus is gonna pick you up, or your kid's gonna pick you up, or your neighbor's gonna be like somebody's gotta get you there.
00:40:19.949 --> 00:40:25.150
And the more isolated we are, and we see this very clearly in the literature.
00:40:25.630 --> 00:40:37.309
Uh, whether you're a former endurance athlete or a current endurance athlete or whatever you like to do, the more isolated you are, the shorter the health span that you have.
00:40:37.469 --> 00:40:56.349
And so, whatever it is that you choose to be passionate about and stay could stay in, it sounds like you've got to keep your community and ask and ask for support so that you can keep doing it and keep that um and keep that fulfillment.
00:40:56.590 --> 00:41:05.150
Because we also um I do say this often on my own show, you know, it's okay to ask for help.
00:41:05.309 --> 00:41:09.469
Yeah, it's okay, you know, there's strength in asking for help.
00:41:10.029 --> 00:41:12.909
I know people see it as a weakness, but it's not.
00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:14.590
It's okay to ask for help.
00:41:14.750 --> 00:41:18.110
Um, and there's so many wonderful people out there want to help you.
00:41:18.269 --> 00:41:18.509
Yeah.
00:41:18.670 --> 00:41:21.469
You know, they they people thrive on helping other people.
00:41:21.630 --> 00:41:23.469
So it's like it's a beautiful thing.
00:41:23.630 --> 00:41:23.869
Yeah.
00:41:24.029 --> 00:41:25.630
Um, that was the first thing I wanted to say.
00:41:25.789 --> 00:41:28.190
The second thing, um, I want to make this one point.
00:41:28.269 --> 00:41:30.349
Um, well, actually, I have two quick points.
00:41:30.429 --> 00:41:34.509
Um, I wanted to mention when you asked me about lessons learned as you were just talking.
00:41:34.670 --> 00:41:39.309
I was just thinking some of these things we go through in life can create stress.
00:41:39.550 --> 00:41:42.269
And stress is really stressed.
00:41:42.829 --> 00:41:58.509
If you do everything right, you eat right, you exercise, you hydrate, you do, you're doing, you think you're doing everything right, but your stress levels, you know, chronic elevation of cortisol on your body, like it it wears on your body.
00:41:59.150 --> 00:42:03.389
And so, stress, like managing stress, that was a big lesson I learned in my PhD program.
00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:04.429
There was a lot of stress.
00:42:04.509 --> 00:42:08.029
I was a full-time caregiver while I was getting my PhD.
00:42:08.429 --> 00:42:13.070
And so a lot of my work was, you know, at night, late hours.
00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:15.469
It just it was very out of balance.
00:42:16.269 --> 00:42:21.230
Um, so it was a lot of the lessons there were to learn on to manage stress.
00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:23.070
Back to aging.
00:42:23.630 --> 00:42:32.829
There's something in our cultures and society, and it, you know, there's a lot of diversity in our conversation depending on where you live in the world.
00:42:33.070 --> 00:42:33.389
Okay.
00:42:33.550 --> 00:42:39.230
So highly individualized, a lot of cultural diversity in how we handle things.
00:42:40.190 --> 00:42:46.989
There's a lot of diversity in our opportunities for living self-determined lives depending on where you live in the world.
00:42:47.230 --> 00:42:48.829
So all these kind of factors.
00:42:48.989 --> 00:42:52.429
But there is something that kind of penetrates, it's called ageism.
00:42:53.230 --> 00:42:53.550
Okay.
00:42:54.190 --> 00:43:04.190
Ageism are these false assumptions that as we age, we we aren't supposed to live highly physically active lifestyles in sports.
00:43:04.590 --> 00:43:04.750
Yeah.
00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:07.630
That that wasn't the narrative for a long time.
00:43:07.789 --> 00:43:16.590
It was that as you retire and you age, you you slow down, you do less, you hit the recliner.
00:43:16.829 --> 00:43:25.469
And there's a whole new group of uh there's a whole shift now towards aging with with being active, highly physically active.
00:43:25.710 --> 00:43:40.750
And that's why I loved my research so much because the triathlon community, triathletes, older triathletes demonstrate this much more um vivacious way of living life.
00:43:40.829 --> 00:43:45.230
And it and it's really a beautiful thing to watch and to see and to f and to see it flourish.
00:43:45.789 --> 00:43:46.429
Wow.
00:43:46.909 --> 00:43:49.630
That and you start winning way more awards.
00:43:49.789 --> 00:43:51.469
I mean, just saying.
00:43:53.710 --> 00:43:56.429
Because that's fun too, like you had mentioned, right?
00:43:56.829 --> 00:43:57.550
It is fun.
00:43:57.710 --> 00:43:58.190
It is fun.
00:43:58.349 --> 00:44:01.230
I mean, it doesn't necessarily keep people in it, but it is rewarding.
00:44:01.389 --> 00:44:04.909
We all feel good when we when we when we uh succeed.
00:44:05.070 --> 00:44:06.670
Um, I have a really good friend.
00:44:06.750 --> 00:44:08.110
I'm gonna give him a shout out.
00:44:08.269 --> 00:44:12.590
His name's Mark Michelson, and um he's doing amazing work.
00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:23.309
He's been the like he was in corporate wellness years ago when it was just being founded, you know, with the big companies like A IBM and all those companies are starting to put in corporate wellness programs.
00:44:23.550 --> 00:44:27.630
He has a platform which I love, and that's why I'm sharing it.
00:44:27.710 --> 00:44:29.789
It's called Ageless Rebel.
00:44:30.029 --> 00:44:30.670
Ooh.
00:44:31.230 --> 00:44:31.630
Yeah.
00:44:31.869 --> 00:44:32.509
I love that.
00:44:32.829 --> 00:44:33.949
Ageless Rebel.
00:44:34.110 --> 00:44:40.989
And it's all about looking at these older years in our life in a totally different from a totally different different perspective.
00:44:41.309 --> 00:44:41.789
Yeah.
00:44:42.110 --> 00:44:43.070
So cool.
00:44:43.630 --> 00:44:47.230
Um, and great segue to your podcast.
00:44:47.309 --> 00:44:51.949
And uh Sarah, how can people get a hold of you and listen to more of our platform?
00:44:52.670 --> 00:44:52.989
Sure.
00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:56.429
Well, number one, if you if you're interested in being a guest on My show.
00:44:56.509 --> 00:44:59.630
I would love to talk to you and hear your story.
00:44:59.789 --> 00:45:08.269
I I love to interview people and talk to people and hear your stories of things that you've overcome in your life.
00:45:08.349 --> 00:45:09.789
Um and the resilience.
00:45:09.869 --> 00:45:12.989
I call my guests resilience warriors.
00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:19.070
You know, we just never give up and we find avenues and opportunities to live our best lives.
00:45:19.150 --> 00:45:20.750
So I would love to hear from you.
00:45:20.909 --> 00:45:24.750
Um the podcast is on every major uh platform.
00:45:25.469 --> 00:45:29.869
And um there's something out there called RSS feeds, which are podcast feeds.
00:45:29.949 --> 00:45:30.509
They're free.
00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:31.869
It's a free podcast.
00:45:32.029 --> 00:45:38.190
So it's on everything like iHeartRadio, um, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts.
00:45:38.269 --> 00:45:39.070
There's so many now.
00:45:39.230 --> 00:45:42.349
Listen notes, castbox, Rifonics, Podbag.
00:45:42.429 --> 00:45:44.110
I mean, all you need to do is search Dr.
00:45:44.190 --> 00:45:46.670
Sarah Gordon, the PhD Journey Unplugged Podcast.
00:45:46.989 --> 00:45:47.230
Cool.
00:45:47.469 --> 00:45:49.070
And um, and you can email me.
00:45:49.230 --> 00:45:50.269
You can email me.
00:45:50.429 --> 00:45:56.509
Um my email's a little tricky, so maybe you can just I'll I'll put it in the notes.
00:45:56.750 --> 00:45:57.869
But you'll find me.
00:45:57.949 --> 00:45:59.389
You can find me through Chris too.
00:45:59.630 --> 00:46:06.029
And um yeah, I thank you for this opportunity to share and and um and connect on your podcast.
00:46:06.269 --> 00:46:07.150
Yes, love it.
00:46:07.309 --> 00:46:18.590
All right, so before we head out, what are maybe one to three things that you want listeners to really um walk away with?
00:46:21.869 --> 00:46:26.989
Well, I've been asking all my guests lately this one question, and you're welcome to use it too.
00:46:27.230 --> 00:46:27.389
Yes.
00:46:27.710 --> 00:46:32.509
I ask them at the end of every episode now, what are you train?
00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:34.509
What what are you training for?
00:46:35.469 --> 00:46:36.909
What are we training for?
00:46:37.150 --> 00:46:43.230
And you can answer it literally, figuratively, metaphorically, however you want to answer it.
00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:43.630
Right.
00:46:43.869 --> 00:46:45.309
You know, what are we training for?
00:46:47.150 --> 00:46:53.789
And I would say to answer your question, I don't know if I could come with three that quickly, but that one is good.
00:46:55.309 --> 00:47:04.989
You know, I think I'm just I personally am training and want to empower people to live your best life.
00:47:05.309 --> 00:47:07.230
You know, it's a short journey.
00:47:07.789 --> 00:47:10.829
Um, we have so much that we cannot control.
00:47:11.710 --> 00:47:24.190
And so why not uh put things in our lives that nourish our soul ourselves that where we can thrive and we can shine.
00:47:24.670 --> 00:47:42.829
And I tend to think I'm biased, I think physical activity is absolutely essential to manage stress, to do so many positive things in your life for your overall health and well-being, your mental health, and um the forming relationships.
00:47:43.070 --> 00:47:49.550
I mean, the whole look, the whole reason we're connecting is through triathlon and you know, relationship building.
00:47:49.630 --> 00:47:57.710
And so um that's my take, that's my my final, I guess, um, thought is um find those things.
00:47:57.789 --> 00:48:03.150
Like if you're, you know, we're assuming people are listening and they're right where they want to be.
00:48:03.230 --> 00:48:14.509
But if you're listening to this, if you find this episode somewhere and you're you're just not, you feel like your life is just not aligned, you're not happy where you're at, you know, start taking small steps to move your life forward.
00:48:14.590 --> 00:48:26.269
You you have the power within you, you have the strength for the journey within to move your life, to, to, to get it to where ultimately you find fulfillment and satisfaction and peace.
00:48:26.750 --> 00:48:27.469
I love that.
00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:29.469
What a great way to finish.
00:48:29.710 --> 00:48:29.949
Dr.
00:48:30.110 --> 00:48:32.909
Sarah Gordon, it was so lovely to have you.
00:48:32.989 --> 00:48:48.670
Thank you so much for being on the Find Your Edge podcast and for the depth and um insights into both your life and your dissertation and your beautiful podcast platform.
00:48:48.829 --> 00:48:49.309
So thank you.
00:48:49.630 --> 00:48:50.029
Thank you.
00:48:50.190 --> 00:48:56.909
Thank you for the opportunity and um thank you for, I don't know if your listeners know this, but you you've been a mentor to me.
00:48:57.150 --> 00:48:58.429
And I appreciate it.
00:48:58.590 --> 00:49:05.389
The first time we actually spoke, I was very intimidated because I knew I'd been doing this for a long time.
00:49:05.550 --> 00:49:09.550
I didn't know half of the things you were telling me I should be doing or thinking about.
00:49:09.789 --> 00:49:15.869
And what a great example of just putting yourself into uncomfortable spaces sometimes to continue to learn and to grow.
00:49:16.029 --> 00:49:18.029
So I'm I'm really grateful for that.
00:49:18.190 --> 00:49:18.590
Thank you.
00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:19.230
Awesome.
00:49:19.389 --> 00:49:19.949
You're welcome.
00:49:20.110 --> 00:49:30.110
And uh, even though it was such a such a short conversation, but you know, you I think your podcast has so many amazing lessons.
00:49:30.269 --> 00:49:38.750
I'm like, ooh, I need to reach out to all the people that she's talked to, but like just go to her podcast and listen to all these amazing interviews that you find this it's pretty phenomenal.
00:49:38.989 --> 00:49:41.469
Yeah, there have been some pretty incredible voices out there.
00:49:41.550 --> 00:49:44.590
So everybody's doing a lot of really great stuff in the world.
00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:45.710
It's really inspiring.
00:49:46.029 --> 00:49:47.070
It is awesome.
00:49:47.949 --> 00:49:49.309
All right, well, thank you again.
00:49:49.630 --> 00:49:51.070
All right, bye, everybody, thank you.