Beyond the Book Podcast: Turning Her Book into a Multi-Million Dollar Cocktail Brand

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Welcome to the Beyond the Book Podcast, where we help authors make money beyond just selling books. Can include products such as letters in the mail, can include card games, board games,
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video games, can include pretty much anything beyond the books. And today we have Maggie, Maggie Beeler, a very special guest.
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We're gonna be talking all about be- going beyond her books to make something very special, something that no author has done before.
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Actually, I don't wanna say that and then someone's gonna come out of the woodwork and be like, "Actually, I've done this." [laughs] You know what?
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No author that I've ever known has done before, which is turn her books and create cocktail mixes based off her books, essentially starting somewhat of an alcohol brand for readers- Mm-hmm...
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which is super fun and I think will help bring a lot of people together. But before we talk about
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how to build this brand, how to go about this, 'cause this is gonna be like a live kind of workshop and going beyond the books together, tell us how you got started in all this. What, what are your books? Yes.
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I have been in the writing world since 2016 or '17, and I have been working on books since I was 12. Wow.
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I have published seven books and am working on my eighth, in a number of different genres: young adult fantasy, middle grade comics, coloring books, and what we're talking about today is my cocktail book series, which is a literary themed cocktail book based on popular themes and tropes in genres across fiction.
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I love it. And tell us, like how did you come up with a cocktail book for readers? That doesn't seem like just, "Oh, yeah- [laughs]... that's a, that's, it's the most obvious thing." Yeah.
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I mean, I just combined my two, two of my favorite things, not that drinking is one of my favorite things, but it's something I enjoy trying, different cocktails and recipes.
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I think it's interesting how much you can do with mixology, and I love reading. Ooh, I love that, mixology. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I, I figured I might as well y- I might as well try and combine these two things.
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I love reading and I like creating cool drink recipes.
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I have a lot of four-hour drives back to my hometown in Indiana, so I was thinking a lot in the car and just came up with this id- this idea and ran with it, and it became a pretty decent book. It's actually right there.
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[laughs] Yes. Now tell us about, you made this book. Yes. Maybe tell us about what actually went into it. If I open it up, you can see the pages here, right? It's, this isn't like your typical fiction novel. No.
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Yet it's clearly something that would interest fiction readers. So tell me what went into the process of making this? I'm a big fan of fun coffee table books, so I was like I want it to be something that you can...
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It's practical in the sense that it's a recipe book, but it's also an art piece in a way. The design was really important to me to make it stand out.
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If you walk past a coffee table and you see this thing called TropeTales, you're like, "Wait, what is that?"
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And then you flip through it and it's all this cool art and fun recipes, and every page has a little blurb that I wrote about the trope.
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It's in this funny and first person tone, and then I have a little quote from the genre that it's in, and then the recipe and the picture, which my illustrator did a fabulous job designing these, I would say.
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[laughs] I adore it. No, this is great. First question, I can see your format here in terms of recipe, little like quip or funny thing about it, a quote that's from like a writer or authorly figure.
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Illustrator, how did you, like find an illustrator? 'Cause I feel like the toughest thing about going beyond the book is that you have to oftentimes have help going beyond the book. Mm-hmm.
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So how did you have, where did you find help in making a cocktail? Yeah. So the interior art, I actually found my illustrator on Instagram, and I do a lot of like hashtag searches on Instagram.
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So I first started by figuring out, nailing down which kind of style I wanted.
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So I would compile a list of illustrators that had a very specific style, and then I would go through and see if they were even looking for work. And yeah, I just did a lot of hashtag work.
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It took a really long time to find it, but I do lots of hashtag searching and compiling lists of names that I'm gonna reach out to.
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And then the cover, it was the same thing, just a lot of the groundwork on In- Instagram is great for finding illustrators. I use Instagram mostly for all of my illustrator searches, just 'cause there's a lot of...
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You know, it's a visual platform, so you can see their like portfolio of work and stuff. So hashtags are great for finding illustrators. It's how I find all of mine. I love it. Okay.
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And then you find the illustrators, you have this great idea, and you launch it. How do you launch it, and what kind of money does it make? Yeah.
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I actually, so this project specifically I felt that it had to go on Kickstarter because it's not a traditional... It's a book, but it's not like a traditional style book.
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It's more of an art book and a recipe book, like I said. And I know one-off projects like that do really well on Kickstarter, where it's you...
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Like Amazon isn't really like the best place to launch something like this, at least in my case. Kickstarter people are looking for unique projects like this that they can't find anywhere else.
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I went to Kickstarter, launched a Kickstarter for this, did a lot of cross promo on Kickstarter. Kickstarter is great for cross promo. And this book put me into five figures for the first time as an author.
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It did very well on Kickstarter. I was very happy. And yeah. That's huge. Yeah.
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That shows, 'cause you think about it, like you wrote all these awesome YA fantasy, middle grade fiction books, and there's obviously huge markets for those books. Mm-hmm.
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And you didn't do bad with those books, but you like really hit a market here. Mm-hmm. And it showed, like you were able to reach a new height- Mm-hmm...
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not just because you had some better marketing strategy, although I'm sure you got better at it, but also just because it was a better product for the market- Yeah... which is pretty cool.
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And it reached multiple different audiences as well. So not only was I reaching readers, but I was also reaching people who like cocktail recipe books, so I was expanding my audience in that regard too.
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It's also like a great gift.
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I can imagine myself getting something like this for a gift, being like it's like low risk 'cause buying someone a book is, okay, if I know they love that genre or I know they love that author, I guess easy.
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But if not, like what kind of gift do you get a bookworm? A reader. Right? Yeah.This is super cool. Now, where we're at now is interesting because you released this back in May of 2024 2024.
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Yeah, last year And now, at least when we're recording this, it's February of 2025. So let's call it give or take an- A year later, yes...
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you're in a position now where you have, uh, one of those things that a lot of us don't talk- often talk about but we all know about. It's our day job.
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[laughs] I just quit mine, like, 48 hours ago, so I know very well what those are like. So you've had your day job.
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Mm-hmm And obviously, like many of us, I shouldn't say obviously, but Maggie, like many of us, myself included very obviously, wanna break free from that and to do your own thing.
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And, you know, with the amount of money you made from that, it's obviously not bad, but it's not gonna be enough in the States to make a full-time living.
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Mm-hmm And certainly it'd be great to make more than just a living, but to actually build an empire here going beyond the books.
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Me and Maggie for the last couple days have been doing this thing called Story Suppers, which if you don't know what Story Suppers are, you could join us at a future one. I- They're pretty great.
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[laughs] They're amazing. We actually just finished one. A little biased, but pretty great A little biased, but they're a lot of fun, and they're basically dinners that we do, supper club for authors in different cities.
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Mm-hmm You can sign up for the wait list. They're completely free when we do them. Mm-hmm. You just pay for your own dinner, and we go to a great spot. We bring some awesome writers together, and we learn a lot.
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It's so much fun- Mm... and you get to make new writer friends. We've been doing that for the last four or five days. Again, you can join at the link in the description and actually sign up for the wait list.
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So when one happens in your city, you'll know about it. Mm-hmm. But me and Maggie have gone to three cities. We've gone to Chicago, Milwaukee, and now we're in good old Cincinnati. Cincy. It's a great place here.
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I've loved it. Yeah, Cincy's pretty great. We've had a lot of time to be jamming back and forth on things, and one of the core things was trying to get Maggie to escape her day job.
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But then one of the other core things has been thinking really strategically around what you want to do. And I guess I'll first start with there because- Yeah...
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we obviously teased people with where this conversation's going. We're gonna be talking about cocktail mixes and how to turn this into not just a book, but a huge brand that can sell a lot more books too.
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It's gonna be amazing. But what, what, what do you want? Let's just start with that very broad question. When I say, "Maggie, what's your dream gonna look like in a couple years," where does your mind go?
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I wanna be a full-time creator. You wanna be a full-time creator. And what do you wanna be working on? Building my brand, my empire. Okay. Cocktail brand empire. Now, what do you view as your strengths?
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If I had to tell you, like, what is your superpower? A lot of people who follow me on the Author Sidekick might know I love that word superpower 'cause I think it's so important to grow a business with your superpower.
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Clearly, like this, right, combines two of your superpowers. You love books. Mm-hmm. You love cocktails. That's awesome. But as a business owner, as an operator, what do you view as your superpowers?
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My superpowers specifically are probably connecting with people, building relationships, building community, and also sales.
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I'm very skilled in getting people excited about things that they otherwise wouldn't have looked at or been excited about. I love it. Now let's think about your dream that you have and Trope Tales.
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What's keeping you back from quitting your job tomorrow? Like, why are you not quitting right now? Money. Okay.
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No m- not much I have income coming in from my books, but not enough to supplement the bills that I would need to live.
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And now you're gonna hit me 'cause you're coming here to start to learn about this, but why are you not making more money from your books? Because they're not selling. [laughs] Okay. Yeah.
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'Cause I'm not reaching, I'm not reaching the audience I need to be reaching. Yeah. Okay, that's a good question. Yeah, that's, we're getting there now. So you're not reaching the audience you wanna be reaching.
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I, I'd say there's two things we can do here, and this is why I love going beyond the books. What this podcast is all about is helping you do three things as an author.
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When you go beyond the books, you're able to, one, make more money 'cause you're providing different products and services to your readers that make it so that a reader that normally would've spent $5 on a book spends $100 on this awesome experience, and more money lets you quit your day job faster.
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But more money also does a second thing. It allows you to market yourself more, and when you get to market yourself more, you get to make even more money, which means you don't get to just quit your day job.
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You get to build an empire. But there's also a third really interesting thing that happens here, which is that by going beyond the books, paradoxically, you sell more of the books. Yeah.
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And it's because how you're building a brand
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is creating something that truly differentiates you in the market, where you become known as this storyteller, not just an author, but this storyteller who's created this world that's one of one because you have these experiences that no one else has.
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And again, it sets you apart in the marketplace, so you're able to sell more because you become one of one.
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So what we're really trying to do today is help Maggie find what her one of one looks like, help her build it, and hopefully by listening, you all can do the same thing. Now- Implement the strategies. Yeah. Precisely.
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I understand you have these strengths for sales, community building, and I can feel your passion for Trope Tales. Excitement.
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Now, I know I started with this question with you, and we've been throwing ideas back for a while 'cause how much does this book sell for if I was to buy it right now? $35 plus $4 shipping. Okay, so $35 here.
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How much does it cost to print? It's about... Oh, man, I did the math. It, it was, like, 2,500 divided by 400. What is that? So- $6-ish. Yeah. $6.25, I think. Yeah. So- A little bit less than that... okay.
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We'll call it $6-ish. You're making $29 in profit- Every book... on every book. But that's not the full equation because you have another really important piece of it, which is how are you shipping this out?
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So you said you bought, like, a huge pack of 400. Yeah. You're paying for the shipping, but you're packing it. So you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. How long does it take you to pack one? Less than five minutes.
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Okay, less than five minutes. But- Just put it in a sleeve. Okay, so it's pretty simple. A cardboard, a cardboard sleeve. And you're printing a label. It, it's safe when it ships.
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[laughs] So let's, let me give you a different question. I'm printing the label, yeah. It's $5 media mail. I bought 10- Less than $5 media mail... I'm not even talking about the price.
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I bought 10 books from you at different addresses. How long does it take you to fulfill that shipment? Time. What of your time- 10... is going into it? 10, yeah.Maybe it depends if there's any add-ons.
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If there's no add-ons, maybe like 30 minutes Okay, so for those doing math can math, to fulfill 10 she's making $290 in profit before her time spent, but it's gonna take her a half hour.
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And I don't know, let's say- Give or take. Give or take... you wanna make six figures a year working 40 hours a week. Your time now is worth $50 an hour- Yeah... at that rate.
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So you're basically taking $25 in your time value and plopping that in to this. Mm-hmm. So really you're making closer to, if we wanna get really real, $25 in profit per book, right? Yeah.
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So that's great, by the way, and notice how she created an experience already, right? She almost went beyond the book in terms of Trope Tales in and of itself- Mm-hmm... is an experience that is...
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could be a coffee table book, could be shared with friends. It goes beyond just, "Hey, I'm reading this on my Kindle," which there's nothing wrong with that, by the way. Like- Book clubs too. I'm going to...
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I was invited to go to a book club this weekend where they're making drinks from the book. I love it and- I forgot to tell you that. It's on Saturday... you got paid for the party, didn't you, to show up?
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No, it's my friends. But there- They're hosting their book club... there, there is a party you're getting paid to show up to this weekend They will be buying the book, for sure.
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But wait, you told me you're getting paid to show up to a party this weekend. Paid? Yes. No. Paid to show up to a party? Uh- Oh, that's the Kickstarter. Yes. That's a different thing. That's great. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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Well, let's connect it to this. Yes, I'm getting paid to show up to a party this weekend, yes. Yes. Wait- But that is different from the book club. [laughs] But, but it's for- I always get these words mixed together.
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Yes... but it's for like Trope Tales. Correct. Yeah. Yes. So she's making now paid appearances based off Trope Tales- Yes... which is hilarious and amazing. Yes. And it's virtual, by the way, too. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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I forgot about that. Um, so she's virtually showing up to a party- Too many Trope Tales things going on this weekend... as the author of Trope Tales to have a virtual cocktail party, um, which is brilliant and genius.
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So you've already gone well beyond the book, but again, this podcast, we're not small thinkers here. Nope. Yeah, big thinkers, big dreams. Why not? 'Cause that's what life's about. As storytellers- [laughs]...
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we can change the world, and we might as well start right now. So we had this thought experiment, right, where we were trying to think about what can you do beyond the book to make more money?
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And run me through the cycle of some of the ideas both me and you had on this front. A lot. Card games. Yeah. Um- Talked about that...
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like hosting parties in local bars in the city with people and their books that they bring. We're gonna touch on that 'cause I like it a lot. I'm gonna do that soon. Yeah. Yeah, we have to touch on that. I already...
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Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. And then also powder drink mixes. Okay. This is where we start to have fun.
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The biggest challenge I gave Maggie was how can you imagine a world where you can get over $100 up front from your customer? Up front, day one.
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Mind you, [laughs] nobody's gonna be your customer, but the people who choose to be your customer, they're on average paying above $100.
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I love that world because you get to s- market yourself through so many interesting things. All of a sudden affiliates, an affiliate sells one and you give them 25, 30% of the sale.
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25 or 30 bucks to sell one is not a bad gig. Mm-hmm.
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All of a sudden you could spend $30 to acquire someone through a Facebook ad, and beforehand on this book if you spend $30 you're probably losing money if not just breaking even.
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Now if you're getting them to pay over $100, life's good. You're able to make a decent chunk of change there. I was also thinking about we already have this experience, right?
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And when we create products and go beyond the book we don't wanna try and reinvent anything. We don't wanna think about creating a different product for a different audience. Like, that's not going beyond the book.
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That's just building something else. Mm-hmm. To go beyond the book we wanna think about what journey is this story taking our readers on, and how can we enhance that journey
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through some kind of product, digital or physical- Mm-hmm... that we can charge more for, or maybe the same or less for but at least people will want it. And my mind immediately went to,
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I'm literally looking at this, it is drink recipes that I'm gonna wanna start to go make. Why can't I have cocktail drink mixes that are reader inspired Trope Tales drink mixes- [laughs]...
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that allow me to actually, instead of just reading this, I can just put it in, make the drink, life's good. And be done with it. And it can be NA or you can add alcohol. Which is awesome too because- Options...
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then you can also market this to your middle grade readers. Mm-hmm. I'm joking there. Um- [laughs] No, we're not marketing cocktails to middle grade readers. Yeah, I'm, I'm jo- I'm joking. No worries. No, no coverups.
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You started, you started as a middle grade author so, you know, tying it back. Anyways, um, [laughs] I lo- I mean, theoretically... I love the arc here from middle grade to, like, cocktail books. Like, it's awesome.
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I truly love the arc. So now we wanna think about what that journey looks like and, again, I think that we were throwing around a lot of ideas, and I felt that doing
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these cocktail drink mixes was the most obvious path, and here's why. Mm-hmm. I wanted people to be able to pay for a year up front where they could get 12, like a mystery subscription- Mm-hmm...
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where each month they're getting a new Trope Tale cocktail mix, and you're able to then get a year of cash flow up front, which for a bootstrap business is huge.
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Like such a hack, but you can do that because people are buying this stuff all the time.
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I had a friend who ran this huge meat subscription company that scaled to 200 million in annual revenue, and that was a lot of their growth hacking, was literally just selling these upfront year subscriptions through this.
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I like this product for that reason. I also liked it because you don't have to sell the subscription.
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If you bundle it you could bundle a pack of here's a pack of 12 but there's, like, this one gets 12 drink mixes, but you're gonna get five different packs together in a bundle, discount it, and it's 70 or 80 bucks, right?
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And then, like, when you add that with the book there you go, 100. Whatever that pricing looks like, it starts to get pretty interesting.
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There's a lot of different ways you can imagine bundling drink mixes to this audience, driving them to a landing page through any type of marketing, and ultimately making a lot of money.
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But that doesn't confront the biggest question we all have. How are we making drink mixes? Well, we're reaching out to manufacturers. [laughs] Yeah, this is the hard part. This is the hard part.
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Well- So walk me through, Maggie, 'cause I remember when we settled on this you were excited. Yeah. What were you feeling when we settled on this idea? I was excited.
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I woke up at 6:00 in the morning and started reaching out to manufacturers. I never wake up at 6:00 in the morning.
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She started working trials for me, and if anyone knows me I work like a madman, so she was pumped about this, which- I was really pumped. [laughs] I'm so happy for it.
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I have three calls with manufacturers tomorrow.Literally walk me through, like, why did you go to manufacturers? Like- Uh... how are you thinking through that? I work in manufacturing. This is the way to go.
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[laughs] Almost like, almost like we brought her on for a reason. She only- Oh, yeah. Knows a little bit, knows a little bit. Mm-hmm. Okay. What does it look like to reach out to a manufacturer?
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How do you even find manufacturers? You're just Googling it? Yeah. What are you Googling? Tell me what you're Googling. So I actually Googled... At first I was Googling just different... I was looking at...
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I, I first started with actually just looking on Amazon at other companies that were doing powder drink mixes, and there were a couple. And then I just looked at what they were doing, and they were using pouches.
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So then I just searched on the internet, "drink powder pouches manufacturer", and I just started clicking on all the links and going to the contact forms. And then I would type out a message like, "Hey,
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I am in the beginning stages of a new product development. I have a cocktail recipe book, and I'm looking into getting some custom or already made formula powder drink mixes for my brand.
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Is there a time we can call and talk about this opportunity?" And then I reached out to 20 different companies, and most of them have responded to me.
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I haven't even had a chance to go through all their emails back to me yet. And I have some calls set up with some powder manufacturing companies that I will be asking...
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I have a list of a bunch of questions about production and sustainability and package design and, and what other things they can offer me, and obviously pricing.
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So I will be going through all of that with them on the call. And it's my knowledge that you generated these questions by asking ChatGPT. I did. [laughs] So how, what prompt did you enter in to prepare- [laughs]...
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yourself for these manufacturer calls?
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I asked ChatGPT, "If you were getting on a call with a potential manufacturer to potentially have a collaboration for a product that you're developing for drink powder mixes, what questions would you ask to ensure that this company is a good fit for a collaboration?"
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And then I put in... I had a couple questions in specific that I knew I wanted to ask. So I said, "These are the questions I have.
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What other questions could I ask to build this list and make me sure that this is the right company?" And I think the one qu- the questions that I had was, like, MOQ, um- What's MOQ? Oh, minimum order quantity.
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If I wanna order 100 pouches versus 1,000 pouches, what, can I order lower than 100 or higher than, whatever. And, like, how much the pricing is for the minimum amount versus a higher amount, just at a price range.
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I asked if they do the packaging in-house or if it needs to be provided beforehand, 'cause sometimes manufacturers are, like, all in one stops, or there's different manufacturers in that process.
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Like, someone else will manufacture the bag, and then you have to supply the bag, and they'll fill the pouch. So just all this random manufacturing cr- stuff. [laughs] Yeah. Okay. Okay, I'm with you.
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So literally you found these manufacturers just by Googling. Yes, and then just going on the contact form. And how did you know, like, how did you know it was, like, good enough to reach out to?
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You don't wanna reach out to every manufacturer in the world, right? Yeah. Like, how do you know?
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There were some, some of them, their websites just looked like it was developed by maybe a twen- like, an 18-year-old or someone who maybe had no experience. Not 18-year-old.
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That's a bad example, 'cause you were doing this stuff at 18. [laughs] But someone who had no experience. They were, like, sketchy looking websites. I also look at the testimonial section as well.
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If they actually had products to display, like, final products to display, that's really important, just seeing what they've done and how well they've done it. And then I, like, looked up the brands that they
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were displaying and saw how well they were received.
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Some of them I just reached out to just 'cause, 'cause sometimes it's good to have multiple quotes when you're reaching out to these types of companies so you can leverage things a little bit.
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But I will definitely be settling on one of the ones that has a reputation- Yeah... for quality. Yeah. Okay. I am... I love it. Makes so much sense. You get on these calls. You have three tomorrow. Yes.
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How are you going to decide what manufacturer to go with? I know you have these questions, but- Yeah... and I know you might not have the answers. Let's talk about this together, like- Yeah...
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how are we gonna decide which one to go with? Honestly, I think I'm gonna get prototypes with a couple, from a couple of them so that I can compare. Smart. Yeah. I'll probably, I'll talk to all of the one...
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Like, I'm gonna give all these companies a week to get back to me. Okay.
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And then I'll probably settle on three that I really like, and that can be based on, like, their communication and the pricing and the scalability because I wanna go with a company that I can scale with.
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So if I start with a company that doesn't have the capacity to handle large scale orders, that's probably not a company you would wanna work with, 'cause if your company grows fast, you have no way to predict if it's gonna grow fast or not.
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So if the company isn't able to handle the demand, it's probably not a good fit. But then also pricing is important too, 'cause it's a, it's the first thing I'm...
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It's a prototype, so I have to be able to, like, have it be economical in a sense. But then of course, you have to look at the prototypes first.
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You could think a company's great, and then get the prototype and it's poop. [laughs] Now, that's a loaded question because it's not about what you think, right? It's about what your customers think.
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So I'm curious, with the prototype, how are you going to do that initial market testing? I'll offer an example. I worked for a really
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big chocolate company, which anyone who knows my background could infer exactly what company that is. But it's owned by a very big YouTuber. And the first formulation that we came out with had a very low retention.
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It was based off of what the founder, from founder prototype tests, thought tasted good. Mm-hmm. So it was like you taking these three or four in and being like, "You know what? That one's obviously better.
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That one's not that great." Yeah. "These are the two we're gonna do, right? And we'll compete between these two, right?"
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Yeah.And again, it wasn't terrible chocolate, but you could look at the retention and then compare it to, like, industry standard and be like, it's obvious that, like, customers are buying it- Mm-hmm...
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but they're not repurchasing it, which is what you want. Yeah. It's what makes this product in particular magical, because it's a consumer packaged good. It's not just about buying it once. Mm-hmm.
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A consumer who loves a specific drink mix can buy it over and over and over again. That's what makes this magical.
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It's what honestly makes this such a big idea, and it's actually where I'm, like, most proud of this podcast is you have so many podcasts that talk about making seven-figure authors.
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I wanna make eight-figure authors in this podcast. I wanna make nine-figure authors in this podcast. I actually wanna have the first billionaire author that isn't, like, J.K.
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Rowling or James Patterson, although much respect to them both. Mm-hmm. We can do that. We can do that by going beyond the books, and frankly, that's how a lot of them have done it, too. And
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this product in particular has, again, a lot of those really great core fundamentals for not just a seven-figure business, but for an eight-figure business, because once again, we have that repurchasing rate.
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But that only matters if there's high retention, and I'll tell you what we did and how that can go, this company. Mm-hmm. When I'm saying we, I'm not with them anymore. [laughs] But what they did
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was a very simple test, which is... I'm not sharing anything proprietary. This is very basic stuff that I'm sharing in terms of a, just a simple test between consumers to see blind taste test.
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You don't know what this is. We're gonna compare it to other industry competitors, and compete with competitors' products. Which one do you think tastes better? Which one do you like better on this thing?
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And actually did, like, a real survey and, like, true market research, and ultimately, the winning formula was picked out of that, 'cause there was multiple formula options and it was benchmarked against other options of, like, competitors.
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And then you would test six or seven of these. Which one's ranking the best compared to the competitors? Okay.
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So if I was you, I would recommend getting in some initial prototypes to maybe decide the top three or four brands you recommend, or maybe you narrow in on a brand,
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but you really wanna work with them in terms of the formulation. There's going to be a testing iteration process there. Yeah. And you're going to wanna invite consumers into that.
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That's going to be, like, really, now we think a little bit more scientifically here. You want it to be ideally randomized or at least bring in your target consumers. Mm-hmm.
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You want it to be actually a representative sample of those consumers, and maybe most importantly,
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you want to know that you're asking them the right questions, which is now where we get into the questions that you have to also ask yourself about the product. Mm-hmm. What do you think makes a good drink mix?
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'Cause now if we're going beyond the books, what makes a good story? We can talk about characters. We can talk about plot. We can talk about certain tropes. We talk about pacing. But what makes a good drink mix?
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If I had to say, what are the similar tropes that Trope Tales needs- Mm-hmm... the drink mix, what do you think those are? A good drink mix is flavor. Like, honestly think of Pokemon, like we're rating it. Yeah.
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'Cause I know you love Pokemon. Yeah. Pokemon's awesome. Yeah, I do. [laughs] What are these, what are these ratings? Let's build the card for Trope Tales. It's gotta be, it's gotta be flavorful.
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It can't be, like, something that's easily... There's some that just you put in the water and it just tastes- So strong, like flavor strength. Flavor strength, yeah. That's a... Okay, let's write that down.
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Flavor strength is one. Okay, so we have flavor strength. What else do we think is, like, a factor here that's gonna be really important?
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I would say, so for people who are listening in terms of how you think about your own products, I'd be going for around five. You're probably gonna have five key ones with one or two that make the most.
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If I'm thinking about, like, most products, like, candidly, let's zoom out for a second. Mm-hmm. Packaging has to be part of this. I was gonna say that next, yeah. And it's not just design, right?
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It's also, like, ease of opening, right? Yeah. Like, you don't want... I hate packages that are hard to open, and I have a lot of trouble opening packages. Oh my God, yeah. I think I'm just challenged with it.
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[laughs] It's so bad. I'm like, it's pathetic. I can't even open really simple things. Open up this, like the steamed broccoli that you put in the microwave. I can't do it. There you go. There's some really bad things.
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Um- Or also, for example, the Dot's Pretzels that I love, sometimes if you leave them, if it's too hot, the zipper, like the glue will melt, and then the zipper will, like, not attach to the plastic of the bag, and you can't reseal it.
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So that's a problem. That's a problem. That's a problem. Okay, so packaging's really important. Okay, now what do we think about, like, I know we did strength of flavor, but what do we think about the flavor itself?
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Is that just gonna vary depending on- It would-... the different Trope Tale- Yeah... like what we're going for? It would vary based on the different one.
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So I guess- Like, there would be different, 'cause different manufacturers have different, like, flavors that they already have formulated for, and you can mix those flavors together in a bag.
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So I guess each one's- You could make-... gonna have a flavor profile that you're going for. Yeah. And you probably wanna describe, like, this is ideally what we're going for in terms of the satisfaction. Mm-hmm.
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It'd be really cool to understand, too, what makes customers choose one drink mix brand over another, because you're gonna have killer branding with Trope Tales.
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You have a one of one brand where if readers want a cocktail mix, you're gonna be the only place they can go. But to build a long-lasting brand, you don't just wanna rely on your brand. You wanna have the best product.
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So I would try and understand out of other brands, what's making consumers choose one product over another? And by the way, repurpose this same insight for your books.
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Literally, it's the same thing, and I would literally go to reviews on sites like Amazon and see, like, why are consumers choosing one thing over the other? What are they liking?
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That might go into that flavor profile section. Mm-hmm. The reading the reviews is a good idea. Yeah. The reading reviews is super important.
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I would honestly, too, another, like, hack here is copy and paste a done, bunch of the reviews into a spreadsheet. Copy and paste that thing in a ChatGPT and see what it says.
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I, I know folks feel differently about using AI in, like, your creative process, uh, but I hope a lot of us at least understand there's a lot of value in using it for business processes and stuff because creatively we can all feel about it differently.
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I honestly, like myself, don't use ChatGPT in my writing at all, but when it comes to how you wanna use AI in terms of, like, market research and stuff, I do think it's pretty valuable, and the tool is there.
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You might as well use it. So that's another hint in terms of making that faster. I also think there's the sort of balance between how many drinks you get out of the mix versusHey, like, how, what is the price?
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So I think that's, like, an important thing. Mm-hmm. Like, the drink per price. Serving size. Yeah.
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And I also think in addition to that, what I'd be really curious about, and I don't even know if your competitors have it, but I'm just trying to, again, map about the customer journey. Mm-hmm.
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Think readers first, right? Let's make every part of it magical. If I open up that drink mix, I'm already half drunk. [laughs] Maybe. Maybe, right? Just from the smell.
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I love always thinking making things so simple that someone could do it half drunk. Like, I think that has to always be how simple things are. But that literally might be the case here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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That's especially important here. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] So what I would be thinking about is you open it up, right? And I'm outside at the beach. I, I don't know why you'd be doing it outside at the beach, but maybe.
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Who knows? I am at the grill- You could... at the pool. Yeah, the pool. Right? At the beach I just feel weird with the sand, so I would like be at the- Right, yeah. Powder and sand. Yeah.
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Yeah, the sand was weird, so I, throw that one out. Yeah. But you got- Just theoretically you could... theoretically. But you could be at the pool. You could be down at the grill.
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You could be, like, in a loud party where you don't wanna get to the kitchen, and the kitchen...
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Or, like, you're in the kitchen, but you're trying to look for this stuff, and you're at your friend's house, 'cause you brought this cocktail mix to your friend's house. Mm-hmm.
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And what I'm thinking about is the measuring. You're picking up mix, you're pouring it, and you're measuring it. Oh. And there could be that little plastic measuring cup that has the serving. Yeah.
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I don't know if your competitors have that, but again, I'm just immediately thinking from a product first lens here. That would be a feature that I'd love. Well, or it wouldn't even have to be in the bag.
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It could just come with the subscription. Come with your first bag. It depends. Yeah. We're not even to the business model question yet, 'cause I don't want you to get married to- Yeah...
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do not get married to business model. That's iteration. It could be bundles that you're selling it in. It could be a subscription.
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I'd also be thinking from a customer lens, are they losing and throwing out that old one first? These are all things you test over time, but potentially, depending on where that is.
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'Cause imagine, like, you have this cheap plastic thing. I'm throwing away the drink mix, and it's like next month- Mm-hmm... oh, damn. That was the only one I was gonna get, right? Yeah. I don't know.
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That's something you could test and, like, talk to customers about, but- I'm sure you could buy, like, a bulk order of- Oh, no. These things are cheap. Like a- A tablespoon... and, and it's those little touches, right?
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Yeah. That go far way. mean, you could just tape it to the bag when you ship it. Yeah. I've seen people put it in the bag.
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But I'm saying if the manufacturer doesn't put it in the bag, you wouldn't wanna be opening- But you can talk to them too, 'cause they can slot things in. The manufacturer, yeah.
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I've seen it with protein powder in specific. Yeah, yeah. Which if, maybe if Nath wants to start a protein powder brand- Yeah... that'd be funny. Um. That would be- Not funny. It'd be great. Like, it'd be awesome. Yeah.
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But I've, I, this is like, my protein powder does that, and I love it. Okay. Yeah, mine do too. Yeah. So I'm thinking about that, like- Mm-hmm... from that perspective as well. Okay.
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So these are, like, the factors that, like, make it good. Do we think there's any factors we're missing right now? That was something I didn't think about, for sure. I always love- And it's, it's a good point.
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It's a good point... you always need, like, a surprise and delight feature in there. Yeah. 'Cause it's like when they see something that then makes them think differently about it, that's a huge win. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
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Let's now take a step back. What do you view as the timeline here? How are you going to launch this? We dove into how you can test some things and how you can determine if it's a good product. Mind you,
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there's still a lot of work to be done there, but I think a good start. How are we thinking about launching this? Launching it ti- like, more specifically? Timeline. Process. Once you create this thing- Mm...
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you now have this valuable product. But just like Tropetales, you've gotta get it out in the world. Yeah. Not even thinking long-term, what's that initial launch look like?
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Initial launch, I would probably run another Kickstarter for it. Okay. Maybe. No, no, no, no, no. This makes sense. Now we can get really fun with it. I'm so excited for you. Kickstarter is the perfect thing. Mm-hmm.
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When we think about business model and then product development, they should be the same thing. And I'm thinking about Kickstarter right now. And we just talked about how you need to do all this testing, right? Mm-hmm.
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Kickstarter funds you before you even have to go and do the tests, right? Mm-hmm. It can be coming out in six months. Yeah. Put a realistic timeline on it, and then who's going to test?
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Who are you gonna run these tests on? The Kickstarter backers. Exactly. So you would do this before you even market it to your newsletter. We would obviously be marketing it- Well, yeah.
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The Kickstarter's gonna be to your newsletter. It would be marketed to, yes. But- You're gonna launch the Kickstarter... this is taking the place of getting random people and the public to taste your thing.
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The Kickstarter is going to be the test of whatever- Well, yeah, 'cause I would let them early in.
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Part of why you're backing this Kickstarter, and instead of waiting 12 months for it to come out to the public, part of why you're backing it is you get to freaking be a part of the first formulation of this. Mm.
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You get to, to help decide. Here are the three manufacturers. I'm shipping. Here's 100 test samples to everyone who backed it.
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And maybe if there's too many people to back it, it's, like, a specific tier that you do it for. Yeah. You know what I mean?
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So you can have fun with that and play around with it so that meets your numbers for not ordering too much of a prototype. Or candidly, they're paying you, and you could always have that in the margin in terms of it.
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Yeah. You can bake that into the business model.
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Th- this is where I want everyone to think about in terms of when you pick a business model, it's not just for fun, I'm gonna do a subscription, I'm gonna do upfront payment, I'm gonna do a bundle. It's...
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Or a Kickstarter. It's thinking about I'm doing this business model. How is this going to affect how I'm developing the product and my relationship with my customers?
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And how can I use that business model to my advantage? And if you can't come up with a reason why, then try and think of the best business model for you.
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And I think in your case for a launch, Kickstarter makes so much sense- Mm-hmm... 'cause you're gonna have a product development cycle. But you don't wanna have to go out of pocket for all of that. Yeah.
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So you're basically getting paid. Yeah. You're gonna create a prototype, which won't be that expensive, just to first see if it's even possible. But after that- [laughs]...
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you're gonna be profitable this entire way through. Yeah. And you're gonna start potentially an eight-figure plus drink mix company with almost no money out of pocket.
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When I say almost no money out of pocket, I'm not talking, like, $1,000. I'm talking, like, you're gonna spend probably less than $100 doing this. Yeah. Getting the prototype. That's the only... Yeah. That's incredible.
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Yeah. So that's why Kickstarter's valuable, because you can get the long-term benefit of getting a high-retentive product, a great product out, and get that testing process done through the Kickstarter. I love it.
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I love it. And you can already, again, through the Kickstarter test what bundles are gonna work. Mm-hmm. What actual Tropetales they want the most. There's gonna be so many different mixes you could create. Yeah.
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You could do that all through surveys, and invite them into this process with you. Backing the Kickstarter isn't just backing the Kickstarter and getting it in three months.
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It's also getting behind the scenes of how you're gonna be making-... this company. Mm-hmm. Which is amazing. That's epic. Yeah.
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And then you launch it, and you now have, like, your profit banked, plus you know what your first development run needs to look like. Yeah.
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I'm gonna make this batch to manufacture, and that becomes part of even when you're finalizing contracting agreements, and you should never sign an inclusive agreement, obviously.
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But when you're trying to figure out that first manufacturer, then that minimum order, right, you know what that is. Oh, okay, this is my minimum order amount. I can't work with this one. They can't work with me.
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This one has a higher one, but I really like them, so I'm gonna ask them if they can come down for me. And guess what? It worked. You know? Maybe I'm paying a little bit more- Yeah...
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for now, but I can get my minimum orders higher eventually. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm feeling it. Like, that's great. And then- Yeah... you would obviously for this first one order everything here. Yeah.
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And then just, like, fulfill it out of here. Mm-hmm. Right? Which is chill. Yeah. But now it's launched. It's out. Yes. You've done the Kickstarter. Makes sense. It's on your direct store. What happens?
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That's where I'm stuck, 'cause Kickstarters are easy for me. Like- Yeah... I- that's a no-brainer. You can probably make tens of thousands of dollars doing this in Kickstarter, hopefully. Like, it's gonna be great.
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I made almost 15,000 with Tropetales. Yeah, so let's say you just do- So... another 15K from this. Yeah. And maybe you do a lot better. How do you- I think I can scale it, 'cause this is reaching an NA audience too.
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I think it could do really good. And that was a lot of the com- not, I've never really received complaints on this book, but a lot of the, a lot of- Right... the comments were, "I don't drink, but I love the idea of it."
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And obviously there were 300 people who do drink and like it, so there is a market. But- No, no, no... this is reaching more of an audience. Which is- Exciting... so exciting. I'm so happy for you.
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This is gonna be so great. But we have to then take it a step further and think about the next steps, really, like, building this brand. So you're gonna put it on your Shopify. What happens next?
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Because let's say you make, I'm just throwing a number out there, let's say you do 15 to 20K in profit from this, the first run of the drink mixes. That's great. You're good. You've got money to live for a couple months.
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When I say what happens next, I'm also saying what amount in a Kickstarter up front are you quitting your job at? Ooh. That's something you need to think about. I w- Like, when do you decide to go all in? I don't know.
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What does all in look like? How do you scale it? All in? And again, we can do a follow-up podcast, but I do want to, in the last section- A follow-up when I'm, like, six-figure author.
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No, a follow-up after the Kickstarter. Yeah. I think we're gonna learn more. Follow-up after the Kickstarter, yeah. I, I think we're at the stage now where I'm like, no, I wanna hear this.
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I wanna hear what you're thinking through, because it's gonna change between now and then. And I think it's good to think about the medium term play here, 'cause we have a really good short-term play.
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But medium term is when we turn this from an amazing Kickstarter into an amazing business. Yes. And there's a difference. Let's think about, like, how are we selling this after Kickstarter? See.
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Because a Kickstarter is a one-time thing. Shopify. Okay. Shopify, done. How are you marketing it? Because let's say you've already marketed to your list in Kickstarter. You need new leads at that point, right?
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New leads, yeah. You'll have word-of-mouth obviously. Right, yeah. But besides word-of-mouth, with may- which may be a significant, outside of that, how are you growing this? The only, ads.
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When you say that, I'm, like, already feeling, it's not... Dude, I love Facebook ads. We're gonna do it. You're just dreaming. [laughs] Now, but I'm thinking, we've been doing these three separate things.
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You don't think there's a opportunity for you to use a similar model, an event-driven model, to scale this? Like the parties at the bars? That's too local. Event-driven. Why would it be too local?
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'Cause I only live in Cincinnati. Why does it have to be you? So we're talking about her hosting meetups. Yeah.
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Basically cocktail meetups for readers, which I think is pretty epic, and hosting it for free, getting readers to come for free, but then being like, "Hey, you could buy this book, or you could buy, like, these drink mixes," right?
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And just hosting it at a bar, informal meetup. Doesn't really cost anything out of pocket, just time. Mm-hmm. But you're saying, very correctly, you could do that in Cincinnati. Yeah.
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But you can't do that out of Cincinnati. But then I have to ask you, why do you have to be there? I guess I don't have to be. So let's think about how you don't have to be. The virtual stuff? No. Talk to me.
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Let's imagine how you can scale an e- a community-driven IRL event marketing strategy. 'Cause again, it's very easy just to say Facebook ads, and Facebook ads might work for you really well.
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And I wouldn't advise against not doing it. I think you should do it. But maybe there's a really creative way that leans into going back to your strengths. You love selling. Yeah. You love building events and community.
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We know there's a community here. Can you create a community that can simultaneously grow your brand? That's the big question. Yeah, I think it's doable. I just don't entirely know where that would start. Oh.
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So the first thing I think about with this is that we need an incentive structure. I was talking before about affiliates. Reaching out, yeah.
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You could have people in different cities run these cocktail parties for readers, and they could get a cut of the sales here and a cut of the sales on whatever products they're offering- Mm-hmm...
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for the upsell into the drink mixes, whether it's a bundle or a subscription. I think the Kickstarter is gonna teach you a lot about what that should be. That's interesting to me, because now all of a sudden you're
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able to tap into a much wider audience and really incentivize people to get out there and go sell it. And for you, there's really no out-of-pocket cost, because you can fulfill the bill- books centrally.
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You can also fulfill the drinks centrally. Like, you don't need to do this out of a single, "Oh, you have to bring it with you." You could give them a copy of the book. You don't have to give them 10 copies.
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They can- Yeah... go online and order it through their affiliate code. They can go online and order the drink mixes through your affiliate code. That's interesting to me.
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It would be pretty easy to test that, and wouldn't cost any money out of pocket.They would be getting money from the sale, though, the people. Yeah- Yeah... but out of pocket, 'cause you're getting money on the sale.
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Yeah. Less money, though. But the affiliate, I mean, it could, yeah- But you're gonna be spending money on ads anyways. Yeah, so- So wouldn't you spend the same amount of money that you'd spend on ads to acquire them?
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That's what you would do. That's true. If you're gonna spend $30 on an ad to acquire a customer, just give them $30. Yeah. That easy. But they're only- Whatever that amount is...
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they're only reaching a limited amount of people if they're hosting their own small event. And how do I even get them to host these small events?
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If people want to have a cocktail party for readers, which this whole book- Yeah... is basically based around- Yeah. So we could create-... then ho- hopefully there's demand to come together around that. Yeah.
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So they should wanna throw it because, one, they can make money, and two, wou- wou- wouldn't readers wanna come together and have a cocktail party about books? Yeah. I hope.
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If not, like- How are you promoting that across the country, though? With n- without ads. No, they can promote it in Facebook groups and- But how do you reach those people-... at book learnings...
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to promote it then, is what I'm asking. Well, let's think about who would like to most promote it. It would either be readers or authors, authors whom could potentially sell their own books there, too. Yeah.
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Which is like a double dip for them, which is great. Then they could sell their books, make the money there. True. Do this, do that. It's an interesting strategy I'd explore. Yeah.
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I think ads is still very natural here, but I'm a big believer in ads are really just a content game where you need good content to fuel the ads. That content has to come from somewhere.
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That content's either gonna be you making trope tails, literally making the cocktails- Yeah... or other people, and this event gives you endless content- Yeah... effectively. Of the people. Yeah. Yeah.
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So are you giving them the book for free, then, or are they buying it with a discount? No, I think they're buying it. Yeah, I don't think you need to give it to them for free. The people who would be hosting the parties?
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Oh, the people who are hosting the party you can give the book for free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like you're not... Yeah, this is just like an affiliate type of thing. So I think you can give that to them.
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But I don't think you need to give, like, you know, the people there the product for free. I don't know. They're, they're the ones buying it. What if hundreds of people across the country wanna host their own
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cocktail party, though? You're not giving away hundreds of books. What do you mean? If you're giving away a book to someone to host a cocktail party in their city,
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what if hundreds of people in cities across the country wanna do it?
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If you're telling me the price to have hundreds of cocktail parties is $6 time hundreds of cocktail parties, and they're all gonna be based around your books, that's pretty freaking cool.
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That seems like a really good marketing decision. Yeah. If I could have... If a book costs $6 to print, $5 to ship, you're basically telling me for 1,200 bucks you can have 100 cocktail parties, sign me up.
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Like, I would do that. Okay. I see. Yeah. And also, if that's a problem, then don't give them the book for free. Yeah. They don't even have to have the physical book. It can all be digital. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
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Just give them a flyer to print out- Yeah... if that's a problem. If... And, and it might not even be worthwhile to give them the book. Maybe it is just the flyer. But- Yeah... 100 cocktail parties is insane. Yeah.
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That's amazing. Imagine, think about that. If each cocktail party sold three books, and then the subsequent drink mixes, and it was on average $100, 100 cocktail parties is $30,000. It's not bad- Yeah... in revenue.
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Obviously not profit, but that's a pretty interesting strategy. Um, but I obviously do think ads will be, like, the way to actually grow and scale something like this. Mm-hmm.
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But I think you always need a long-term marketing moat, 'cause the ads can go down. Mm-hmm. And you always need something to fuel the ads. Yeah.
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And again, you were telling me your strengths, like ads scare you, community excites you. Yeah. I know you. You do well at selling at in-person events.
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And I think less of this is about you selling, more so than you exciting other people to sell, building a sales force, which as in sales- Mm-hmm... that's the only way to really scale in sales. Yeah.
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If you were to stay at your day job, which is in sales, eventually you'd be managing a sales team. Effectively, it's following a similar arc. The content and the ads I think is great, too.
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I would then run competitions, though, to help fuel that content, where you create a competition where the people who submit the best videos of them making trope tails can win money- Mm...
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and then you're taking them, paying them money 'cause they performed the best on social media. They post it on social media. You take the viral ones, you pay them money and say, "You won.
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And then also I'm gonna use your content and use it for ads." Yeah. And that's part of the condition of them getting money. And you basically just paid them to create ads for you. Yep.
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Because that's like- I thought about doing that before... a really organic way to do it. I thought about doing a trope tails, like, competition, like social media thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I would do it.
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Because again, everything goes back to content.
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Even with these reader cocktail events, everything would be about them taking pictures and posting to social media, them taking pictures, posting to social media, and amplifying the event, people feeling the FOMO, being like, "What is this?"
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That's the whole benefit of everything, is doing everything in service of creating content- Mm-hmm... that's posted online that gets readers' attention. Yeah.
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And it's about creating a machine that feeds you content that you can amplify through ads, but that's already performing well organically. Mm-hmm. Everything ultimately goes back to that. Yeah.
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I like the idea of the trope tails competition. But this is all after the Kickstarter with the pouches. Yeah. But it's important to think through- Yeah...
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because you need to be able to capitalize on the success, and then you have a sustainable way to grow it, because at some point you're gonna have to quit your job for this. Yeah.
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And probably after a successful Kickstarter you'd have to do it. Yeah. Let's say if you made from one Kickstarter six months that you earn at your day job, would you quit your day job?
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Don't tell my parents, but prob- maybe, yeah, probably. There you go. I would ver- heavily consider it. Then that's your goal. That's your goal for your Kickstarter. Six months of income. Yeah.
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I, before I quit my day job, I saved up just over 12 to 18 months, let's call it, of, like, savings. Yeah. So I knew I had enough to be okay.
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Um, so I wasn't even, like, it wasn't even making the money for the business for me. It was just like it'll work out. Yeah. And, like, I have 12 to 18 months of runway, so-'Cause this type of thing
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you're definitely gonna wanna go and scale, devote your attention to it because I firmly believe, like, there's a $10 million business here, and I also firmly be- and it could be bigger than that, and I firmly believe that for those listening there's hundreds of businesses that big that authors can create.
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Hundreds, maybe even thousands. And you could be the person. And when it comes to you, Maggie, I'm curious, when it actually comes to running the business, not growing it,
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beyond this Kickstarter how are you thinking about the actual operations, the fulfillment? 'Cause this is something that I'm still, like, new to with, like, physical products.
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Digital's a lot easier when you're thinking about beyond the books in a digital context, but physically it can get... It can be challenging. Yeah. I mean, I've done it out of my apartment previously.
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I shipped 300 books out of my apartment for a campaign. Just had a bunch of books in my apartment. I would be mapping out a number where
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you're getting someone else to hire them and to start doing that for you, and then another number where- Need to focus on-... you're having a set space for it.
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And I think that number actually is really easy to know, and I'll give it to you. So that number is this: when you for two months, maybe even three or four if you wanna be conservative,
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have been making an amount of money in that month, not just from a Kickstarter one time, but in that month, so consistently making income for two to four months where if let's say you make
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$20,000 in profit in a month- Mm-hmm... but you're spending 20 hours a week fulfilling orders- Yeah... I would then be like, okay, let's do simple math here. Let's say you're spending 40 hours a week in the business.
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You're making, you know, $20,000, roughly your time's worth $100 an hour. Yeah. You can then afford at that point to pay someone one-fourth of that.
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So for everyone listening, you can afford to pay someone to help you one-fourth of whatever your time per hour is worth.
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And then ideally they take on lower value tasks, you do more important things that are fueling you and more your strengths, and you make even more money, your time's worth more, and you can hire more people, give raises to existing people to just keep growing the engine.
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But you need it to be one-fourth what your time's worth 'cause you need to be making some money, 'cause if you're giving away what your time's worth for those hours, you won't be making any profit and have any breathing room for that person working for you, and they might be working slower, they might not do things as efficiently as you.
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That's okay, because if they do 80% of what you do- Mm-hmm... that's a huge win. What I'd be thinking about is monitoring closely what your dollar power is, and when you can bring that off your plate.
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And then when that's, the fulfillment's off your plate, then I'd be thinking about how can you build operational systems to manage it.
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And then the last step, which is really fun, is how can you build a space potentially or get access to another space where you're not dealing with the shipment in your house, because eventually the shipments coming into your house, the mental energy that takes up is not gonna be worth you having your creative space- Mm-hmm...
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and your freedom. And I see that as your pathway here to, like, how you're growing this. And eventually you're gonna need customer support. Eventually you're gonna need some form of person helping with marketing.
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This will all come with time, but I'd be thinking about it very principled in terms of I made this level of profit for a couple months. I know I need this role.
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This is how much this role's gonna cost me to hire, and I can afford this based on what my time per hour is. Mm-hmm. That way you're not growing too fast.
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You're not spending money too dumbly, and you're able to grow this thing sustainably, and it's actually a pretty simple math equation, I think. It makes sense. It's a lot to think about. [laughs] I'm excited for you.
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I'm excited too. It's gonna be a million-dollar business. Oh, yeah. I hope it'll be bigger than that. I hope so. I think you can get a million packets sold a year. I hope. I do. That'd be crazy.
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I think you can get a million sold a year. That'd be insane. Yeah, it would be amazing. Could be the six-figure author. It'll be more than just- [laughs]... a six-figure author, and I think that's part of the power
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in going beyond the books, and I'm so excited to have you as, like, the first official guest of the podcast. Thank you for having me. Yeah. This is exciting. I have a lot to think about. A lot.
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Like, my brain is spinning. Yeah, I'm- In a good way... I'm so excited for it. I, I think it's...
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Honestly, this is some of my favorite moments, like, when I've been creating content in the community for the last couple years, has been helping authors on stuff like this, and to have a space where I just do this- Mm-hmm...
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is very fun, so I'm very grateful for you, uh, allowing me to have a great time, and- I'm grateful for you giving me your time. Yeah. No, I hope I was helpful. Very helpful. And to everyone listening, thank you so much.
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Uh, you can find both Maggie's awesome trope tales in the description. You can find a link to my newsletter.
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Um, you can also find a link to join the wait list for Reader Meter, which has nothing to do with necessarily going beyond the books- [laughs]...
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but instead helping give you a strong foundation to create an amazing, engaging book for your readers, so you can go beyond the books and build an empire 'cause you have amazing stories.
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And that's what Reader Meter does. It really shows you when readers stop turning the page in your books. Mm-hmm. It's awesome. You can find it in the link in the description. And that is it.
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I hope you all have an amazing day. Please share this with friends. I think this is a super innovative podcast for this industry, and I wanna hear stories from you all.
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We're trying of covering stuff that hasn't really been covered on other podcasts. I need help in finding really cool people to talk to. I wanna help them as well, and I wanna help you all. So help me. Share this podcast.
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Throw people my way you think would be good guests. And with that said, I hope you all have an amazing rest of your day, and don't forget, together we are boundless.