WEBVTT
00:00.031 --> 00:16.776
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going through the most sensitive way of estimating aging rates, and you do it by exposing cells to simulated microgravity or ground analogs of gravity on the ground on Earth.
00:16.936 --> 00:21.162
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have to send this cell to space just for context.
00:21.142 --> 00:39.164
[SPEAKER_00]: astronauts suffer from accelerated aging so what we have done was to pivot response to microgravity to accelerate the aging so I can see that aging happening in the future and we can map that to five years of aging so that's the most of us to get this stuff out there.
00:39.644 --> 00:42.007
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast.
00:42.327 --> 00:49.596
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where I have a chance to share with you some of the latest developments in the space of holistic health, longevity and wellness.
00:49.576 --> 00:56.546
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always honored intellectual curiosity and scientific rigor, combined with real world practicality.
00:56.866 --> 01:01.272
[SPEAKER_02]: My goal is that what you learn here will help you live longer and live better.
01:01.552 --> 01:02.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Hope you enjoy the journey with me.
01:03.355 --> 01:07.821
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think the current testing available are worthwhile to take?
01:07.801 --> 01:12.547
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I'd like to thank you for interviewing me here.
01:12.967 --> 01:25.943
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that this space has evolved quite rapidly since the first epigenetic clocks that were described in 2012 with honor and horror.
01:26.984 --> 01:32.931
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have this beautiful presentation from Steve,
01:33.417 --> 02:00.690
[SPEAKER_00]: The epigenetic tests were rapidly commercialized by different companies, and I would say probably to abruptly, and because the space is not regulated, it's very difficult to know how to judge those tests, how reliable they are.
02:01.058 --> 02:05.482
[SPEAKER_00]: how accurate they are when you do test retests.
02:06.223 --> 02:20.076
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen interviews with my wavelengths and it's all over the place of the epigenetic tests and if you're stressed or something systemic happens to you, they go up by 20 years.
02:21.137 --> 02:28.264
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a few days later they go back down, so they're very sensitive to things that we still don't understand well.
02:28.244 --> 02:37.600
[SPEAKER_03]: but not only that, I've heard of people who are doing the test on the same day, but they put in the samples using different names and they got drastically different results.
02:37.620 --> 02:47.316
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is where you're calling variability that is not caused by biology, is caused by technical issues, right?
02:47.296 --> 02:51.122
[SPEAKER_00]: these tests rely on a race.
02:51.403 --> 02:57.372
[SPEAKER_00]: So the problem is to bind the CPGI lands and then you have a signal.
02:57.673 --> 03:09.692
[SPEAKER_00]: There are other tests out there that are maybe not yet commercialized, but are more reliable that are based on transcriptomics.
03:09.672 --> 03:12.717
[SPEAKER_00]: basically your sequence in the RNA.
03:13.359 --> 03:19.489
[SPEAKER_00]: There's less, they are less prone to error, a technical variability as well.
03:19.509 --> 03:33.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you ask me a question that is super important right for the space because we see more and more people jumping into longevity and they want to do better and they want to optimize their health.
03:33.736 --> 03:35.561
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what work, right?
03:35.822 --> 03:37.246
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a key question.
03:37.727 --> 03:44.607
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the winner will be the test that can inform interventions that is intervenable.
03:45.700 --> 03:46.461
[SPEAKER_00]: that's the first thing.
03:47.903 --> 03:59.335
[SPEAKER_00]: The epigenetic tests for as much as they are very, very accurate at predicting logically they're not quite yet intervenable or we know very little about how to intervene.
03:59.516 --> 04:07.725
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a few studies now looking at different modalities of intervention and see
04:07.705 --> 04:18.483
[SPEAKER_00]: the therapeutic plasma exchange paper that we talked about, showing that there's a reduction of about three years of biological age, and that is using epigenetics.
04:19.225 --> 04:33.409
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're measuring before and after in the same individuals, you get better accuracy than if you're measuring in different individuals of the same age or the same.
04:33.693 --> 04:40.802
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you average all the clock, you have more reliable tools that says improvement.
04:40.822 --> 04:48.793
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you have the results of the epigenetic test, you don't know how to intervene.
04:49.253 --> 04:54.941
[SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, there are other tests like inflammation that you know how to intervene.
04:55.541 --> 05:02.991
[SPEAKER_00]: We know how to target inflammation.
05:03.224 --> 05:06.972
[SPEAKER_00]: can guide you on how to where to go.
05:08.114 --> 05:11.361
[SPEAKER_03]: The information is very much tied in with Egypt, right?
05:11.381 --> 05:11.822
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 100%.
05:11.842 --> 05:12.905
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
05:12.925 --> 05:16.793
[SPEAKER_03]: If you reduce information, and theoretically, maybe you can reduce it.
05:16.813 --> 05:23.848
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just interviewed by the TimePy team, and one of the questions that they posed is, how important,
05:23.828 --> 05:30.563
[SPEAKER_00]: treating information or targeting information will be for the other aging, you know, parameters of features.
05:31.224 --> 05:32.206
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very clear.
05:32.226 --> 05:43.170
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a consensus in the scientific literature that the information piece at the center of aging hallmark is one key predictor of
05:43.150 --> 05:46.837
[SPEAKER_00]: Most, if not all of the diseases of aging, I say.
05:46.857 --> 05:48.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And so imagine you can target information.
05:49.302 --> 05:55.574
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do a lot of savings in healthcare, and you can improve the health, and have the population at large.
05:56.015 --> 05:56.997
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
05:57.417 --> 06:00.062
[SPEAKER_03]: So the current methylation tests.
06:01.205 --> 06:04.551
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think the pitfalls are in these tests?
06:04.767 --> 06:13.309
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the pitfalls are too fall, but one is the issue of variability that we just discussed.
06:13.449 --> 06:19.705
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have different companies, you may have very different results.
06:20.039 --> 06:20.960
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge problem.
06:21.481 --> 06:22.301
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge problem.
06:22.482 --> 06:23.283
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you believe?
06:23.403 --> 06:24.664
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what to believe.
06:24.784 --> 06:25.245
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
06:25.265 --> 06:26.947
[SPEAKER_03]: So there are methods.
06:26.987 --> 06:28.028
[SPEAKER_00]: There are methods.
06:28.048 --> 06:29.069
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the method is the same.
06:29.149 --> 06:38.199
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is that there are different companies that say the operator that runs the test may introduce some bias.
06:39.000 --> 06:45.006
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in the same technology, say the lumina epic array run here and right here, you're going to get different ways.
06:45.026 --> 06:45.507
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
06:45.487 --> 06:55.190
[SPEAKER_00]: So interoperability is something absolutely key for it has to be reliable and that is basically winning this place.
06:55.791 --> 07:02.567
[SPEAKER_00]: The second piece is how trustworthy they are.
07:02.632 --> 07:23.104
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you have a test that comes from a group that published in a absurd journal and here comes a company in Christu license that out and market that, you know that it's not coming from a strong scientific
07:23.084 --> 07:42.578
[SPEAKER_00]: grounds and if you now have nature aging or nature medicine or some other very high profile p-review journal you can trust you can trust more just by default because you have better sense of reviewers and the impact factor of that journal is substantially better.
07:42.710 --> 07:53.303
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you're saying a lot of these companies out there have just utilized technology that has not really gone through enough vetting, enough tests or enough validation.
07:53.323 --> 07:54.064
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
07:54.084 --> 07:55.425
[SPEAKER_03]: That they just went to market.
07:55.445 --> 07:56.366
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the wild west.
07:57.808 --> 08:05.257
[SPEAKER_00]: In a sense that what's prevailing is not the science, but the commercial interest.
08:05.537 --> 08:10.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Even some companies marketing thinks that have not been peer reviewed.
08:10.283 --> 08:18.197
[SPEAKER_00]: that went out to some, you know, pre-print and they're already taking the test and marketing recently.
08:18.217 --> 08:18.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
08:18.398 --> 08:28.335
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess because they're not talking about treatment, so they're not under the same kind of scrutiny as, you know, as far as FDA goes.
08:28.395 --> 08:34.907
[SPEAKER_00]: That goes back to the idea, right, that the regulation in the space,
08:35.866 --> 08:44.701
[SPEAKER_00]: is not there yet, and the bar is so low that you see these things happen, right?
08:45.001 --> 08:57.182
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same as in industry with, you know, pharmaceutical drugs or a serious
08:57.162 --> 09:05.818
[SPEAKER_00]: You can count that those are real that the results are reproducible because there is regulation in the standards behind.
09:05.858 --> 09:07.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:07.361 --> 09:10.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear, for example, clear testing is a standard.
09:10.146 --> 09:13.332
[SPEAKER_00]: You need a clear lab to show reproducibility.
09:13.717 --> 09:17.444
[SPEAKER_00]: and reliability and accuracy in all those things.
09:17.464 --> 09:23.336
[SPEAKER_03]: So do you think methylation based biological H tests are in theory is great?
09:24.077 --> 09:28.907
[SPEAKER_03]: And just in practice is harder to do it to control the variables.
09:29.090 --> 09:29.871
[SPEAKER_00]: That's well put.
09:30.151 --> 09:31.753
[SPEAKER_00]: In theory, it's amazing.
09:31.773 --> 09:58.827
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've discovered, and Horvath has done an tremendous job at identifying methylation variants or, you know, CPD contributors to lifespan and to health span, and we're having all these predictors which is amazing, and never, ever in the past, we've seen such a great level of detail.
09:58.807 --> 10:18.250
[SPEAKER_00]: That leap is something we need to carefully go through, so that the test is as solid and as reliable as the researcher was done in the academia in the first place because all these things come from academia.
10:18.230 --> 10:25.139
[SPEAKER_00]: So that academia to industry transition needs to happen in a very thoughtful manner.
10:26.100 --> 10:29.364
[SPEAKER_00]: So for, I can give you an example, our inflammatory H test.
10:29.685 --> 10:30.025
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
10:30.225 --> 10:32.688
[SPEAKER_00]: We produce these tests in 2021.
10:33.770 --> 10:35.092
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nature aging paper.
10:35.652 --> 10:39.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Really solid and a peer reviewed and a really good job.
10:40.218 --> 11:00.180
[SPEAKER_00]: being that to the academia, as to the industry, the two-casts several years to have the level of accuracy, the level of the test-retest, a small error, did reduce that error to the minimum, so that we produce something that's meaningful for our clients, for our patients.
11:01.301 --> 11:05.365
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we're rolling this off for years later.
11:05.986 --> 11:06.787
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
11:07.067 --> 11:07.828
[SPEAKER_00]: With a clear line.
11:08.247 --> 11:08.788
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
11:09.228 --> 11:18.823
[SPEAKER_03]: So another new test that's emerging is from generation lab and they are testing the genetic noise.
11:19.424 --> 11:25.814
[SPEAKER_03]: They were talking about how the variation in the noise is indicative of the biological function and the age.
11:26.214 --> 11:28.618
[SPEAKER_03]: And what are your thoughts on a test of
11:29.037 --> 11:45.983
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really interesting concept, quite novel, in that there was Schumacher a few years ago, published a paper in Nature Aging, as well, where you can create a clock based on random, the plastic noise.
11:45.963 --> 11:51.888
[SPEAKER_00]: Geek and Mapo, they did in the first place, and then there was Vadim also contributed to some of that work in the literature.
11:52.509 --> 12:15.008
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, generational lab, basically using this, uh, natural biological noise to estimate what's important.
12:17.283 --> 12:21.612
[SPEAKER_00]: specific enough for different functions.
12:22.313 --> 12:23.395
[SPEAKER_00]: We have yet to see.
12:23.415 --> 12:34.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I presented a clear example where if you look at epigenetic age, systemically,
12:35.356 --> 12:51.401
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're not accelerated, you're not decelerated, you're right on your age, you're kind of okay, you believe in fine, I can go on, turns out that your heart is accelerating, and your liver is decelerated, and so the next will be zero.
12:51.421 --> 12:56.689
[SPEAKER_03]: But one good thing about their tests, that there are testing, I think, 9-8-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4
12:56.669 --> 12:57.210
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:57.310 --> 13:07.206
[SPEAKER_00]: So that level of accuracy adds to or that level of specificity adds to and tells, you know, tells a good story.
13:08.789 --> 13:10.111
[SPEAKER_00]: It tells us a very good story.
13:10.511 --> 13:17.262
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we have to see how that can be commercialized.
13:17.623 --> 13:23.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I mean commercialized, I mean productized in a way that we can trust
13:23.753 --> 13:38.099
[SPEAKER_00]: The test suite has, as you can see, the error is the lowest possible, and that everything is done in a clear environment to give our customers and our public in general something that's meaningful, right?
13:38.119 --> 13:46.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I test myself today in a test myself tomorrow, and yet I did nothing, I would expect that the results are
13:46.214 --> 13:46.654
[SPEAKER_00]: almost.
13:46.795 --> 13:51.039
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a frustration in integrity doctors.
13:51.739 --> 14:03.250
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are trying to base your treatment plan on your test results and the test is all over the place and you don't know, you know, it should be working but why the result telling you something different?
14:03.390 --> 14:05.592
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right, do up your whole mind.
14:05.612 --> 14:06.954
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very frustrating.
14:06.974 --> 14:14.601
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only for doctors, for the public in general, and that creates a very bad optics for what
14:14.581 --> 14:23.672
[SPEAKER_00]: we're trying to do, we're trying to build credibility, we're trying to build a case for measuring aging weight.
14:24.453 --> 14:28.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And if people don't believe, it's the end of the story.
14:28.378 --> 14:41.854
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, I think very bad practice to come with an unfinished test, I'm bringing it to the market
14:41.834 --> 14:42.695
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
14:43.096 --> 14:55.652
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, you are really important researcher and head of your sector for aging studies at the Buck Institute, which is the premier aging study institute.
14:55.692 --> 14:57.595
[SPEAKER_03]: The first one in the world, is that correct?
14:57.915 --> 15:00.499
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the largest institute focused solely on aging.
15:00.819 --> 15:01.480
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
15:01.780 --> 15:02.381
[SPEAKER_00]: in the world.
15:02.761 --> 15:14.752
[SPEAKER_00]: We have 300 researchers, 25 bugled members, solely focused on mechanisms of aging, interventions, diagnostics, solely aging.
15:14.772 --> 15:15.272
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
15:15.572 --> 15:17.354
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and you have a big team as well.
15:17.414 --> 15:22.118
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you are definitely an authority that I can get some good answers from.
15:22.439 --> 15:22.699
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
15:22.719 --> 15:30.606
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if I ask you, what are you the most excited about in NIH testing, in biological
15:30.586 --> 15:47.768
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, next week, yeah, yeah, yeah, my interest at the moment and the vision is to be able to democratize everything, to make it available to everyone individual in this plan.
15:47.748 --> 15:52.296
[SPEAKER_00]: to try to bring things to the masses, to bring the cost down.
15:52.336 --> 16:00.110
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been developing tools that are simply with a selfie right.
16:00.310 --> 16:01.612
[SPEAKER_00]: I call that healthy selfie.
16:01.713 --> 16:04.778
[SPEAKER_00]: You can measure inflammation in the body.
16:04.758 --> 16:08.945
[SPEAKER_00]: it has certain level of error in the measurement.
16:08.965 --> 16:12.191
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not as accurate as a blood test.
16:12.211 --> 16:13.473
[SPEAKER_00]: But it tells you where you have.
16:14.014 --> 16:20.666
[SPEAKER_00]: And where the potential causes of it, if you have that paired with a, say, explosion survey.
16:21.066 --> 16:26.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we can make this ultra low cause technology available to everyone.
16:26.436 --> 16:29.601
[SPEAKER_00]: There's around 4.5 billion,
16:29.581 --> 16:32.445
[SPEAKER_00]: users of smartphones in this world.
16:32.485 --> 16:35.008
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's essentially free for all.
16:35.028 --> 16:39.133
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's that's a thing what needs to happen and what's coming.
16:39.494 --> 16:39.874
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
16:39.894 --> 16:45.001
[SPEAKER_03]: And you let me test it and it's very fascinating that you did the picture.
16:45.141 --> 16:46.143
[SPEAKER_03]: A couple things in there.
16:46.163 --> 16:52.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get your estimated biological age or inflammatory age if you're accelerated or you're okay.
16:52.531 --> 17:09.253
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I want to borrow Dave Pascal's, he's a analogy, he said, you know, a test like this, probably it's not, it's like, when you have a GPS system, it's not going to tell you if you're in Beijing or, or, or 10 jing, you know, but it will tell you it's in China.
17:10.714 --> 17:11.375
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
17:11.596 --> 17:12.056
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
17:12.317 --> 17:13.478
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it onology.
17:13.879 --> 17:17.323
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, at least it is for most cases good enough.
17:17.303 --> 17:29.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then you have a more accurate test that you're going from that to the most sensitive way of estimating aging rates.
17:30.780 --> 17:47.040
[SPEAKER_00]: And you do it by exposing cells to simulated microgravity or ground analogs of gravity on the ground on earth.
17:47.020 --> 17:50.306
[SPEAKER_00]: astronauts suffer from accelerated aging.
17:50.386 --> 17:58.421
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we have done was to pivot on this response to microgravity to accelerate the aging.
17:58.681 --> 18:01.706
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can see that aging happening in the future.
18:01.807 --> 18:03.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can map that to five years of aging.
18:03.870 --> 18:05.333
[SPEAKER_00]: So say take yourself.
18:05.313 --> 18:06.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Put it in my gravity.
18:07.097 --> 18:08.280
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two time points.
18:08.701 --> 18:16.318
[SPEAKER_00]: I have the base line where basically cultured your cells in in 1g, which is this gravitational force.
18:16.538 --> 18:18.382
[SPEAKER_00]: And I put the microgravity.
18:18.523 --> 18:21.870
[SPEAKER_00]: That gives me a trajectory of aging.
18:21.850 --> 18:24.394
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the most of these to get his stuff out there.
18:24.414 --> 18:26.156
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an expensive test.
18:26.176 --> 18:26.577
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it?
18:26.857 --> 18:27.438
[SPEAKER_00]: It's $2,000.
18:27.518 --> 18:29.101
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, guys.
18:29.121 --> 18:31.124
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no way we can bring it down, right?
18:31.164 --> 18:37.373
[SPEAKER_00]: It's difficult to bring the cost down because we have to move the cells around and bring them and culture in there.
18:37.393 --> 18:38.034
[SPEAKER_00]: We're putting my program.
18:38.054 --> 18:44.444
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a lot of preparation, specialized equipment, specialized personnel.
18:45.065 --> 18:51.334
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like these epigenic tests that you can put your finger prick or your cheek swab.
18:51.314 --> 18:54.386
[SPEAKER_00]: and you have an answer by running it through a machine.
18:54.827 --> 18:56.474
[SPEAKER_00]: You need a whole lot of preparation.
18:56.494 --> 18:56.835
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
18:56.935 --> 19:01.071
[SPEAKER_03]: So what does this accelerator rated aging test tell you?
19:01.169 --> 19:09.059
[SPEAKER_00]: It tells you how you will be affected by hallmarks of aging in a five-year time.
19:09.079 --> 19:13.744
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I may age through inflammation more than you.
19:14.065 --> 19:21.474
[SPEAKER_00]: You may age through self-senessence, or issues with mitochondria, or your microbiome.
19:21.494 --> 19:22.755
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what is going to tell you.
19:22.955 --> 19:24.257
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's more of a pinpoint.
19:24.237 --> 19:30.625
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a hallmark of aging that will be accelerated from here to the next three to five years.
19:30.685 --> 19:33.568
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not specific, but it's giving you that aging weight.
19:34.049 --> 19:43.721
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you can map that to supplements, foods, accept recommendations that are tailored for that aging weight.
19:43.741 --> 19:44.422
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love it.
19:44.882 --> 19:53.873
[SPEAKER_03]: So doesn't just tell you that it's aging, or there's methylation issues, there's tells you the mechanisms of exactly the hallmarks.
19:53.853 --> 19:54.894
[SPEAKER_03]: of that place.
19:54.914 --> 19:55.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:55.354 --> 19:55.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:55.895 --> 19:56.415
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
19:56.435 --> 19:56.816
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
19:56.836 --> 19:58.938
[SPEAKER_03]: So how many mechanisms can it identify?
19:58.998 --> 20:05.063
[SPEAKER_00]: We said 12 hallmarks of aging, all those are drivers, but we also have two that are protectors.
20:05.604 --> 20:23.860
[SPEAKER_00]: So during aging, there's the aging itself, or mechanisms that happen and accelerate aging, inflammation is the classical example that we discussed prior, but there's also protective mechanisms that increase with aging, right?
20:23.840 --> 20:28.928
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a protective mechanism, resilience, that's an intrinsic capacity.
20:28.968 --> 20:32.634
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to maintain intrinsic capacity, although it's our protective mechanism.
20:32.654 --> 20:40.167
[SPEAKER_00]: So in total, we have 14 pillars, 12 aging drivers and two aging protectors.
20:40.688 --> 20:41.128
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
20:41.729 --> 20:49.442
[SPEAKER_03]: So the drivers, you mentioned two of them, but there's a range and a
20:49.861 --> 20:54.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So the drivers are, you know, cell cell communication loss.
20:54.609 --> 21:05.828
[SPEAKER_00]: You have stem cell exhaustion, and you have, all these are terms that the public may not understand, but we now have this framework.
21:05.808 --> 21:32.997
[SPEAKER_00]: that everybody in this space of aging and longevity understands which is these are the 12 all marks of aging that happen as a mechanism to age ourselves and our body, the inflammation, cell-cell communication issues, mitochondrial dysfunction, microbiome or dyspiosis, autophagyalteration, autophagydiomission, or there's a number of others that I come with.
21:32.977 --> 21:37.184
[SPEAKER_03]: So your test can actually see which part of the problem is.
21:37.645 --> 21:38.106
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
21:38.326 --> 21:39.028
[SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.
21:39.348 --> 21:41.732
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's tremendous tool for doctors.
21:42.874 --> 21:44.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it is.
21:44.898 --> 21:53.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it is because of pinpoint the mechanism and it gives you solutions to how to change that trajectory.
21:53.252 --> 21:53.653
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
21:54.114 --> 21:57.600
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so how much sure is this technology?
21:57.935 --> 21:58.356
[SPEAKER_00]: How much?
21:58.496 --> 21:59.117
[SPEAKER_03]: How much?
21:59.177 --> 21:59.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how much?
22:01.139 --> 22:01.760
[SPEAKER_00]: It's $2,000.
22:02.481 --> 22:09.631
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much enough to go to market, we're launching next month.
22:09.871 --> 22:11.093
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
22:12.375 --> 22:14.077
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to send you an invitation.
22:14.638 --> 22:24.972
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an invitation only, and we're all in this out through clinics, postures, medicine doctors, and healthcare providers in this space of longevity.
22:24.952 --> 22:31.061
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not going to be a direct consumer, not until the end of the year for our idea reasons.
22:31.581 --> 22:45.441
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's the technology is mature enough, but we are not seeking direct consumer yet because there are certain challenges.
22:45.657 --> 23:01.499
[SPEAKER_00]: to make this test clear-up proof and the clear regulation that I mentioned before in the clinical testing, the clear regulation for things like cell culture and you're incorporating the simulated microgravity.
23:02.040 --> 23:11.513
[SPEAKER_00]: And so our examiners will say, how can I, you know, cope with all this very fancy state-of-the-art technology?
23:11.932 --> 23:27.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, this is going to be an IRB-approved study that's a paid study that anyone can sign up for through the clinics, because getting, you know, clear for this very sophisticated things is going to be changed.
23:27.843 --> 23:28.284
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
23:28.304 --> 23:29.907
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is through a blood sample.
23:30.359 --> 23:38.654
[SPEAKER_00]: This is through a blood sample that can give me enough cells to do all the experiments that we need to do.
23:39.215 --> 23:41.880
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's actually a lot of blood.
23:42.060 --> 23:45.306
[SPEAKER_00]: It's between 30 and 40 milliliters.
23:45.326 --> 23:46.789
[SPEAKER_00]: So not a tassel device.
23:47.009 --> 23:52.399
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely not something like, you know, you're pretty finger, you know, the doctor needs to draw it.
23:52.419 --> 23:54.763
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe you would develop something next.
23:55.030 --> 24:00.245
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to know because you need the cells to be in microgravity, you need a lot of cells.
24:01.107 --> 24:10.052
[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to get enough cells from our patient and clients, you need around 30 to 40 milliliters of whole blood.
24:10.032 --> 24:11.575
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a thick tube of it.
24:12.035 --> 24:16.082
[SPEAKER_00]: These are four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, five ketiner tubes.
24:16.103 --> 24:19.528
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah, okay, yeah, that's awesome.
24:19.729 --> 24:20.470
[SPEAKER_03]: Congratulations.
24:20.530 --> 24:20.891
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
24:20.931 --> 24:24.878
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I look forward to testing out your technicality.
24:24.898 --> 24:27.923
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going to send yourselves to space.
24:27.903 --> 24:34.369
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing, I don't think I've got to enough to actually go to space, so I'll do a proxy here.
24:34.390 --> 24:34.970
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
24:34.990 --> 24:36.331
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to go to space.
24:36.351 --> 24:37.613
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to aid.
24:37.673 --> 24:45.000
[SPEAKER_00]: Might as well just take the cell, see how you will respond to that aging stressor and create solutions for it.
24:45.280 --> 24:45.781
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing.
24:46.221 --> 24:53.809
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and thank you for your pioneering work and I see you know, you wonderful team and you
24:53.890 --> 24:58.516
[SPEAKER_03]: you take your team out to enjoy life at the same time of dancing side to important.
24:58.536 --> 25:00.779
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, everybody, right?
25:00.799 --> 25:01.980
[SPEAKER_03]: And good health, this spirit.
25:02.000 --> 25:02.561
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
25:02.581 --> 25:03.803
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you're doing good in the world.
25:04.163 --> 25:04.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
25:04.704 --> 25:05.345
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
25:05.405 --> 25:06.266
[SPEAKER_03]: Really appreciate you.
25:06.526 --> 25:08.349
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to this episode.
25:08.669 --> 25:09.991
[SPEAKER_02]: Hope you enjoy the content.
25:10.351 --> 25:13.375
[SPEAKER_02]: And if so, please rate and follow this podcast.
25:13.395 --> 25:17.040
[SPEAKER_02]: To reach me, you can contact Uplift Longjaviti Center.
25:17.601 --> 25:19.243
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is Uplift with a Y.
25:19.483 --> 25:23.408
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also subscribe to my YouTube channel,
25:23.388 --> 25:24.573
[SPEAKER_02]: See you next time.
00:00.031 --> 00:16.776
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going through the most sensitive way of estimating aging rates, and you do it by exposing cells to simulated microgravity or ground analogs of gravity on the ground on Earth.
00:16.936 --> 00:21.162
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have to send this cell to space just for context.
00:21.142 --> 00:39.164
[SPEAKER_00]: astronauts suffer from accelerated aging so what we have done was to pivot response to microgravity to accelerate the aging so I can see that aging happening in the future and we can map that to five years of aging so that's the most of us to get this stuff out there.
00:39.644 --> 00:42.007
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast.
00:42.327 --> 00:49.596
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where I have a chance to share with you some of the latest developments in the space of holistic health, longevity and wellness.
00:49.576 --> 00:56.546
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always honored intellectual curiosity and scientific rigor, combined with real world practicality.
00:56.866 --> 01:01.272
[SPEAKER_02]: My goal is that what you learn here will help you live longer and live better.
01:01.552 --> 01:02.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Hope you enjoy the journey with me.
01:03.355 --> 01:07.821
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think the current testing available are worthwhile to take?
01:07.801 --> 01:12.547
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I'd like to thank you for interviewing me here.
01:12.967 --> 01:25.943
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that this space has evolved quite rapidly since the first epigenetic clocks that were described in 2012 with honor and horror.
01:26.984 --> 01:32.931
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have this beautiful presentation from Steve,
01:33.417 --> 02:00.690
[SPEAKER_00]: The epigenetic tests were rapidly commercialized by different companies, and I would say probably to abruptly, and because the space is not regulated, it's very difficult to know how to judge those tests, how reliable they are.
02:01.058 --> 02:05.482
[SPEAKER_00]: how accurate they are when you do test retests.
02:06.223 --> 02:20.076
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen interviews with my wavelengths and it's all over the place of the epigenetic tests and if you're stressed or something systemic happens to you, they go up by 20 years.
02:21.137 --> 02:28.264
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a few days later they go back down, so they're very sensitive to things that we still don't understand well.
02:28.244 --> 02:37.600
[SPEAKER_03]: but not only that, I've heard of people who are doing the test on the same day, but they put in the samples using different names and they got drastically different results.
02:37.620 --> 02:47.316
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is where you're calling variability that is not caused by biology, is caused by technical issues, right?
02:47.296 --> 02:51.122
[SPEAKER_00]: these tests rely on a race.
02:51.403 --> 02:57.372
[SPEAKER_00]: So the problem is to bind the CPGI lands and then you have a signal.
02:57.673 --> 03:09.692
[SPEAKER_00]: There are other tests out there that are maybe not yet commercialized, but are more reliable that are based on transcriptomics.
03:09.672 --> 03:12.717
[SPEAKER_00]: basically your sequence in the RNA.
03:13.359 --> 03:19.489
[SPEAKER_00]: There's less, they are less prone to error, a technical variability as well.
03:19.509 --> 03:33.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you ask me a question that is super important right for the space because we see more and more people jumping into longevity and they want to do better and they want to optimize their health.
03:33.736 --> 03:35.561
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what work, right?
03:35.822 --> 03:37.246
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a key question.
03:37.727 --> 03:44.607
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the winner will be the test that can inform interventions that is intervenable.
03:45.700 --> 03:46.461
[SPEAKER_00]: that's the first thing.
03:47.903 --> 03:59.335
[SPEAKER_00]: The epigenetic tests for as much as they are very, very accurate at predicting logically they're not quite yet intervenable or we know very little about how to intervene.
03:59.516 --> 04:07.725
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a few studies now looking at different modalities of intervention and see
04:07.705 --> 04:18.483
[SPEAKER_00]: the therapeutic plasma exchange paper that we talked about, showing that there's a reduction of about three years of biological age, and that is using epigenetics.
04:19.225 --> 04:33.409
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're measuring before and after in the same individuals, you get better accuracy than if you're measuring in different individuals of the same age or the same.
04:33.693 --> 04:40.802
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you average all the clock, you have more reliable tools that says improvement.
04:40.822 --> 04:48.793
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you have the results of the epigenetic test, you don't know how to intervene.
04:49.253 --> 04:54.941
[SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, there are other tests like inflammation that you know how to intervene.
04:55.541 --> 05:02.991
[SPEAKER_00]: We know how to target inflammation.
05:03.224 --> 05:06.972
[SPEAKER_00]: can guide you on how to where to go.
05:08.114 --> 05:11.361
[SPEAKER_03]: The information is very much tied in with Egypt, right?
05:11.381 --> 05:11.822
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 100%.
05:11.842 --> 05:12.905
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
05:12.925 --> 05:16.793
[SPEAKER_03]: If you reduce information, and theoretically, maybe you can reduce it.
05:16.813 --> 05:23.848
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just interviewed by the TimePy team, and one of the questions that they posed is, how important,
05:23.828 --> 05:30.563
[SPEAKER_00]: treating information or targeting information will be for the other aging, you know, parameters of features.
05:31.224 --> 05:32.206
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very clear.
05:32.226 --> 05:43.170
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a consensus in the scientific literature that the information piece at the center of aging hallmark is one key predictor of
05:43.150 --> 05:46.837
[SPEAKER_00]: Most, if not all of the diseases of aging, I say.
05:46.857 --> 05:48.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And so imagine you can target information.
05:49.302 --> 05:55.574
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do a lot of savings in healthcare, and you can improve the health, and have the population at large.
05:56.015 --> 05:56.997
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
05:57.417 --> 06:00.062
[SPEAKER_03]: So the current methylation tests.
06:01.205 --> 06:04.551
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think the pitfalls are in these tests?
06:04.767 --> 06:13.309
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the pitfalls are too fall, but one is the issue of variability that we just discussed.
06:13.449 --> 06:19.705
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have different companies, you may have very different results.
06:20.039 --> 06:20.960
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge problem.
06:21.481 --> 06:22.301
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge problem.
06:22.482 --> 06:23.283
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you believe?
06:23.403 --> 06:24.664
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what to believe.
06:24.784 --> 06:25.245
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
06:25.265 --> 06:26.947
[SPEAKER_03]: So there are methods.
06:26.987 --> 06:28.028
[SPEAKER_00]: There are methods.
06:28.048 --> 06:29.069
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the method is the same.
06:29.149 --> 06:38.199
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is that there are different companies that say the operator that runs the test may introduce some bias.
06:39.000 --> 06:45.006
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in the same technology, say the lumina epic array run here and right here, you're going to get different ways.
06:45.026 --> 06:45.507
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
06:45.487 --> 06:55.190
[SPEAKER_00]: So interoperability is something absolutely key for it has to be reliable and that is basically winning this place.
06:55.791 --> 07:02.567
[SPEAKER_00]: The second piece is how trustworthy they are.
07:02.632 --> 07:23.104
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you have a test that comes from a group that published in a absurd journal and here comes a company in Christu license that out and market that, you know that it's not coming from a strong scientific
07:23.084 --> 07:42.578
[SPEAKER_00]: grounds and if you now have nature aging or nature medicine or some other very high profile p-review journal you can trust you can trust more just by default because you have better sense of reviewers and the impact factor of that journal is substantially better.
07:42.710 --> 07:53.303
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you're saying a lot of these companies out there have just utilized technology that has not really gone through enough vetting, enough tests or enough validation.
07:53.323 --> 07:54.064
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
07:54.084 --> 07:55.425
[SPEAKER_03]: That they just went to market.
07:55.445 --> 07:56.366
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the wild west.
07:57.808 --> 08:05.257
[SPEAKER_00]: In a sense that what's prevailing is not the science, but the commercial interest.
08:05.537 --> 08:10.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Even some companies marketing thinks that have not been peer reviewed.
08:10.283 --> 08:18.197
[SPEAKER_00]: that went out to some, you know, pre-print and they're already taking the test and marketing recently.
08:18.217 --> 08:18.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
08:18.398 --> 08:28.335
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess because they're not talking about treatment, so they're not under the same kind of scrutiny as, you know, as far as FDA goes.
08:28.395 --> 08:34.907
[SPEAKER_00]: That goes back to the idea, right, that the regulation in the space,
08:35.866 --> 08:44.701
[SPEAKER_00]: is not there yet, and the bar is so low that you see these things happen, right?
08:45.001 --> 08:57.182
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same as in industry with, you know, pharmaceutical drugs or a serious
08:57.162 --> 09:05.818
[SPEAKER_00]: You can count that those are real that the results are reproducible because there is regulation in the standards behind.
09:05.858 --> 09:07.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:07.361 --> 09:10.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear, for example, clear testing is a standard.
09:10.146 --> 09:13.332
[SPEAKER_00]: You need a clear lab to show reproducibility.
09:13.717 --> 09:17.444
[SPEAKER_00]: and reliability and accuracy in all those things.
09:17.464 --> 09:23.336
[SPEAKER_03]: So do you think methylation based biological H tests are in theory is great?
09:24.077 --> 09:28.907
[SPEAKER_03]: And just in practice is harder to do it to control the variables.
09:29.090 --> 09:29.871
[SPEAKER_00]: That's well put.
09:30.151 --> 09:31.753
[SPEAKER_00]: In theory, it's amazing.
09:31.773 --> 09:58.827
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've discovered, and Horvath has done an tremendous job at identifying methylation variants or, you know, CPD contributors to lifespan and to health span, and we're having all these predictors which is amazing, and never, ever in the past, we've seen such a great level of detail.
09:58.807 --> 10:18.250
[SPEAKER_00]: That leap is something we need to carefully go through, so that the test is as solid and as reliable as the researcher was done in the academia in the first place because all these things come from academia.
10:18.230 --> 10:25.139
[SPEAKER_00]: So that academia to industry transition needs to happen in a very thoughtful manner.
10:26.100 --> 10:29.364
[SPEAKER_00]: So for, I can give you an example, our inflammatory H test.
10:29.685 --> 10:30.025
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
10:30.225 --> 10:32.688
[SPEAKER_00]: We produce these tests in 2021.
10:33.770 --> 10:35.092
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nature aging paper.
10:35.652 --> 10:39.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Really solid and a peer reviewed and a really good job.
10:40.218 --> 11:00.180
[SPEAKER_00]: being that to the academia, as to the industry, the two-casts several years to have the level of accuracy, the level of the test-retest, a small error, did reduce that error to the minimum, so that we produce something that's meaningful for our clients, for our patients.
11:01.301 --> 11:05.365
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we're rolling this off for years later.
11:05.986 --> 11:06.787
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
11:07.067 --> 11:07.828
[SPEAKER_00]: With a clear line.
11:08.247 --> 11:08.788
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
11:09.228 --> 11:18.823
[SPEAKER_03]: So another new test that's emerging is from generation lab and they are testing the genetic noise.
11:19.424 --> 11:25.814
[SPEAKER_03]: They were talking about how the variation in the noise is indicative of the biological function and the age.
11:26.214 --> 11:28.618
[SPEAKER_03]: And what are your thoughts on a test of
11:29.037 --> 11:45.983
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really interesting concept, quite novel, in that there was Schumacher a few years ago, published a paper in Nature Aging, as well, where you can create a clock based on random, the plastic noise.
11:45.963 --> 11:51.888
[SPEAKER_00]: Geek and Mapo, they did in the first place, and then there was Vadim also contributed to some of that work in the literature.
11:52.509 --> 12:15.008
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, generational lab, basically using this, uh, natural biological noise to estimate what's important.
12:17.283 --> 12:21.612
[SPEAKER_00]: specific enough for different functions.
12:22.313 --> 12:23.395
[SPEAKER_00]: We have yet to see.
12:23.415 --> 12:34.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I presented a clear example where if you look at epigenetic age, systemically,
12:35.356 --> 12:51.401
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're not accelerated, you're not decelerated, you're right on your age, you're kind of okay, you believe in fine, I can go on, turns out that your heart is accelerating, and your liver is decelerated, and so the next will be zero.
12:51.421 --> 12:56.689
[SPEAKER_03]: But one good thing about their tests, that there are testing, I think, 9-8-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4
12:56.669 --> 12:57.210
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:57.310 --> 13:07.206
[SPEAKER_00]: So that level of accuracy adds to or that level of specificity adds to and tells, you know, tells a good story.
13:08.789 --> 13:10.111
[SPEAKER_00]: It tells us a very good story.
13:10.511 --> 13:17.262
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we have to see how that can be commercialized.
13:17.623 --> 13:23.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I mean commercialized, I mean productized in a way that we can trust
13:23.753 --> 13:38.099
[SPEAKER_00]: The test suite has, as you can see, the error is the lowest possible, and that everything is done in a clear environment to give our customers and our public in general something that's meaningful, right?
13:38.119 --> 13:46.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I test myself today in a test myself tomorrow, and yet I did nothing, I would expect that the results are
13:46.214 --> 13:46.654
[SPEAKER_00]: almost.
13:46.795 --> 13:51.039
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a frustration in integrity doctors.
13:51.739 --> 14:03.250
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are trying to base your treatment plan on your test results and the test is all over the place and you don't know, you know, it should be working but why the result telling you something different?
14:03.390 --> 14:05.592
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right, do up your whole mind.
14:05.612 --> 14:06.954
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very frustrating.
14:06.974 --> 14:14.601
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only for doctors, for the public in general, and that creates a very bad optics for what
14:14.581 --> 14:23.672
[SPEAKER_00]: we're trying to do, we're trying to build credibility, we're trying to build a case for measuring aging weight.
14:24.453 --> 14:28.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And if people don't believe, it's the end of the story.
14:28.378 --> 14:41.854
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, I think very bad practice to come with an unfinished test, I'm bringing it to the market
14:41.834 --> 14:42.695
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
14:43.096 --> 14:55.652
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, you are really important researcher and head of your sector for aging studies at the Buck Institute, which is the premier aging study institute.
14:55.692 --> 14:57.595
[SPEAKER_03]: The first one in the world, is that correct?
14:57.915 --> 15:00.499
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the largest institute focused solely on aging.
15:00.819 --> 15:01.480
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
15:01.780 --> 15:02.381
[SPEAKER_00]: in the world.
15:02.761 --> 15:14.752
[SPEAKER_00]: We have 300 researchers, 25 bugled members, solely focused on mechanisms of aging, interventions, diagnostics, solely aging.
15:14.772 --> 15:15.272
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
15:15.572 --> 15:17.354
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and you have a big team as well.
15:17.414 --> 15:22.118
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you are definitely an authority that I can get some good answers from.
15:22.439 --> 15:22.699
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
15:22.719 --> 15:30.606
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if I ask you, what are you the most excited about in NIH testing, in biological
15:30.586 --> 15:47.768
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, next week, yeah, yeah, yeah, my interest at the moment and the vision is to be able to democratize everything, to make it available to everyone individual in this plan.
15:47.748 --> 15:52.296
[SPEAKER_00]: to try to bring things to the masses, to bring the cost down.
15:52.336 --> 16:00.110
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been developing tools that are simply with a selfie right.
16:00.310 --> 16:01.612
[SPEAKER_00]: I call that healthy selfie.
16:01.713 --> 16:04.778
[SPEAKER_00]: You can measure inflammation in the body.
16:04.758 --> 16:08.945
[SPEAKER_00]: it has certain level of error in the measurement.
16:08.965 --> 16:12.191
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not as accurate as a blood test.
16:12.211 --> 16:13.473
[SPEAKER_00]: But it tells you where you have.
16:14.014 --> 16:20.666
[SPEAKER_00]: And where the potential causes of it, if you have that paired with a, say, explosion survey.
16:21.066 --> 16:26.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we can make this ultra low cause technology available to everyone.
16:26.436 --> 16:29.601
[SPEAKER_00]: There's around 4.5 billion,
16:29.581 --> 16:32.445
[SPEAKER_00]: users of smartphones in this world.
16:32.485 --> 16:35.008
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's essentially free for all.
16:35.028 --> 16:39.133
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's that's a thing what needs to happen and what's coming.
16:39.494 --> 16:39.874
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
16:39.894 --> 16:45.001
[SPEAKER_03]: And you let me test it and it's very fascinating that you did the picture.
16:45.141 --> 16:46.143
[SPEAKER_03]: A couple things in there.
16:46.163 --> 16:52.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get your estimated biological age or inflammatory age if you're accelerated or you're okay.
16:52.531 --> 17:09.253
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I want to borrow Dave Pascal's, he's a analogy, he said, you know, a test like this, probably it's not, it's like, when you have a GPS system, it's not going to tell you if you're in Beijing or, or, or 10 jing, you know, but it will tell you it's in China.
17:10.714 --> 17:11.375
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
17:11.596 --> 17:12.056
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
17:12.317 --> 17:13.478
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it onology.
17:13.879 --> 17:17.323
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, at least it is for most cases good enough.
17:17.303 --> 17:29.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then you have a more accurate test that you're going from that to the most sensitive way of estimating aging rates.
17:30.780 --> 17:47.040
[SPEAKER_00]: And you do it by exposing cells to simulated microgravity or ground analogs of gravity on the ground on earth.
17:47.020 --> 17:50.306
[SPEAKER_00]: astronauts suffer from accelerated aging.
17:50.386 --> 17:58.421
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we have done was to pivot on this response to microgravity to accelerate the aging.
17:58.681 --> 18:01.706
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can see that aging happening in the future.
18:01.807 --> 18:03.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can map that to five years of aging.
18:03.870 --> 18:05.333
[SPEAKER_00]: So say take yourself.
18:05.313 --> 18:06.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Put it in my gravity.
18:07.097 --> 18:08.280
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two time points.
18:08.701 --> 18:16.318
[SPEAKER_00]: I have the base line where basically cultured your cells in in 1g, which is this gravitational force.
18:16.538 --> 18:18.382
[SPEAKER_00]: And I put the microgravity.
18:18.523 --> 18:21.870
[SPEAKER_00]: That gives me a trajectory of aging.
18:21.850 --> 18:24.394
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the most of these to get his stuff out there.
18:24.414 --> 18:26.156
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an expensive test.
18:26.176 --> 18:26.577
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it?
18:26.857 --> 18:27.438
[SPEAKER_00]: It's $2,000.
18:27.518 --> 18:29.101
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, guys.
18:29.121 --> 18:31.124
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no way we can bring it down, right?
18:31.164 --> 18:37.373
[SPEAKER_00]: It's difficult to bring the cost down because we have to move the cells around and bring them and culture in there.
18:37.393 --> 18:38.034
[SPEAKER_00]: We're putting my program.
18:38.054 --> 18:44.444
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a lot of preparation, specialized equipment, specialized personnel.
18:45.065 --> 18:51.334
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like these epigenic tests that you can put your finger prick or your cheek swab.
18:51.314 --> 18:54.386
[SPEAKER_00]: and you have an answer by running it through a machine.
18:54.827 --> 18:56.474
[SPEAKER_00]: You need a whole lot of preparation.
18:56.494 --> 18:56.835
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
18:56.935 --> 19:01.071
[SPEAKER_03]: So what does this accelerator rated aging test tell you?
19:01.169 --> 19:09.059
[SPEAKER_00]: It tells you how you will be affected by hallmarks of aging in a five-year time.
19:09.079 --> 19:13.744
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I may age through inflammation more than you.
19:14.065 --> 19:21.474
[SPEAKER_00]: You may age through self-senessence, or issues with mitochondria, or your microbiome.
19:21.494 --> 19:22.755
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what is going to tell you.
19:22.955 --> 19:24.257
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's more of a pinpoint.
19:24.237 --> 19:30.625
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a hallmark of aging that will be accelerated from here to the next three to five years.
19:30.685 --> 19:33.568
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not specific, but it's giving you that aging weight.
19:34.049 --> 19:43.721
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you can map that to supplements, foods, accept recommendations that are tailored for that aging weight.
19:43.741 --> 19:44.422
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love it.
19:44.882 --> 19:53.873
[SPEAKER_03]: So doesn't just tell you that it's aging, or there's methylation issues, there's tells you the mechanisms of exactly the hallmarks.
19:53.853 --> 19:54.894
[SPEAKER_03]: of that place.
19:54.914 --> 19:55.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:55.354 --> 19:55.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
19:55.895 --> 19:56.415
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
19:56.435 --> 19:56.816
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
19:56.836 --> 19:58.938
[SPEAKER_03]: So how many mechanisms can it identify?
19:58.998 --> 20:05.063
[SPEAKER_00]: We said 12 hallmarks of aging, all those are drivers, but we also have two that are protectors.
20:05.604 --> 20:23.860
[SPEAKER_00]: So during aging, there's the aging itself, or mechanisms that happen and accelerate aging, inflammation is the classical example that we discussed prior, but there's also protective mechanisms that increase with aging, right?
20:23.840 --> 20:28.928
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a protective mechanism, resilience, that's an intrinsic capacity.
20:28.968 --> 20:32.634
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to maintain intrinsic capacity, although it's our protective mechanism.
20:32.654 --> 20:40.167
[SPEAKER_00]: So in total, we have 14 pillars, 12 aging drivers and two aging protectors.
20:40.688 --> 20:41.128
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.
20:41.729 --> 20:49.442
[SPEAKER_03]: So the drivers, you mentioned two of them, but there's a range and a
20:49.861 --> 20:54.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So the drivers are, you know, cell cell communication loss.
20:54.609 --> 21:05.828
[SPEAKER_00]: You have stem cell exhaustion, and you have, all these are terms that the public may not understand, but we now have this framework.
21:05.808 --> 21:32.997
[SPEAKER_00]: that everybody in this space of aging and longevity understands which is these are the 12 all marks of aging that happen as a mechanism to age ourselves and our body, the inflammation, cell-cell communication issues, mitochondrial dysfunction, microbiome or dyspiosis, autophagyalteration, autophagydiomission, or there's a number of others that I come with.
21:32.977 --> 21:37.184
[SPEAKER_03]: So your test can actually see which part of the problem is.
21:37.645 --> 21:38.106
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
21:38.326 --> 21:39.028
[SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.
21:39.348 --> 21:41.732
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's tremendous tool for doctors.
21:42.874 --> 21:44.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it is.
21:44.898 --> 21:53.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it is because of pinpoint the mechanism and it gives you solutions to how to change that trajectory.
21:53.252 --> 21:53.653
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
21:54.114 --> 21:57.600
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so how much sure is this technology?
21:57.935 --> 21:58.356
[SPEAKER_00]: How much?
21:58.496 --> 21:59.117
[SPEAKER_03]: How much?
21:59.177 --> 21:59.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how much?
22:01.139 --> 22:01.760
[SPEAKER_00]: It's $2,000.
22:02.481 --> 22:09.631
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much enough to go to market, we're launching next month.
22:09.871 --> 22:11.093
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
22:12.375 --> 22:14.077
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to send you an invitation.
22:14.638 --> 22:24.972
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an invitation only, and we're all in this out through clinics, postures, medicine doctors, and healthcare providers in this space of longevity.
22:24.952 --> 22:31.061
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not going to be a direct consumer, not until the end of the year for our idea reasons.
22:31.581 --> 22:45.441
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's the technology is mature enough, but we are not seeking direct consumer yet because there are certain challenges.
22:45.657 --> 23:01.499
[SPEAKER_00]: to make this test clear-up proof and the clear regulation that I mentioned before in the clinical testing, the clear regulation for things like cell culture and you're incorporating the simulated microgravity.
23:02.040 --> 23:11.513
[SPEAKER_00]: And so our examiners will say, how can I, you know, cope with all this very fancy state-of-the-art technology?
23:11.932 --> 23:27.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, this is going to be an IRB-approved study that's a paid study that anyone can sign up for through the clinics, because getting, you know, clear for this very sophisticated things is going to be changed.
23:27.843 --> 23:28.284
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
23:28.304 --> 23:29.907
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is through a blood sample.
23:30.359 --> 23:38.654
[SPEAKER_00]: This is through a blood sample that can give me enough cells to do all the experiments that we need to do.
23:39.215 --> 23:41.880
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's actually a lot of blood.
23:42.060 --> 23:45.306
[SPEAKER_00]: It's between 30 and 40 milliliters.
23:45.326 --> 23:46.789
[SPEAKER_00]: So not a tassel device.
23:47.009 --> 23:52.399
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely not something like, you know, you're pretty finger, you know, the doctor needs to draw it.
23:52.419 --> 23:54.763
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe you would develop something next.
23:55.030 --> 24:00.245
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to know because you need the cells to be in microgravity, you need a lot of cells.
24:01.107 --> 24:10.052
[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to get enough cells from our patient and clients, you need around 30 to 40 milliliters of whole blood.
24:10.032 --> 24:11.575
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a thick tube of it.
24:12.035 --> 24:16.082
[SPEAKER_00]: These are four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, four tubes, five ketiner tubes.
24:16.103 --> 24:19.528
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah, okay, yeah, that's awesome.
24:19.729 --> 24:20.470
[SPEAKER_03]: Congratulations.
24:20.530 --> 24:20.891
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
24:20.931 --> 24:24.878
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I look forward to testing out your technicality.
24:24.898 --> 24:27.923
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going to send yourselves to space.
24:27.903 --> 24:34.369
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing, I don't think I've got to enough to actually go to space, so I'll do a proxy here.
24:34.390 --> 24:34.970
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
24:34.990 --> 24:36.331
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to go to space.
24:36.351 --> 24:37.613
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to aid.
24:37.673 --> 24:45.000
[SPEAKER_00]: Might as well just take the cell, see how you will respond to that aging stressor and create solutions for it.
24:45.280 --> 24:45.781
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing.
24:46.221 --> 24:53.809
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and thank you for your pioneering work and I see you know, you wonderful team and you
24:53.890 --> 24:58.516
[SPEAKER_03]: you take your team out to enjoy life at the same time of dancing side to important.
24:58.536 --> 25:00.779
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, everybody, right?
25:00.799 --> 25:01.980
[SPEAKER_03]: And good health, this spirit.
25:02.000 --> 25:02.561
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
25:02.581 --> 25:03.803
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you're doing good in the world.
25:04.163 --> 25:04.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
25:04.704 --> 25:05.345
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
25:05.405 --> 25:06.266
[SPEAKER_03]: Really appreciate you.
25:06.526 --> 25:08.349
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to this episode.
25:08.669 --> 25:09.991
[SPEAKER_02]: Hope you enjoy the content.
25:10.351 --> 25:13.375
[SPEAKER_02]: And if so, please rate and follow this podcast.
25:13.395 --> 25:17.040
[SPEAKER_02]: To reach me, you can contact Uplift Longjaviti Center.
25:17.601 --> 25:19.243
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is Uplift with a Y.
25:19.483 --> 25:23.408
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also subscribe to my YouTube channel,
25:23.388 --> 25:24.573
[SPEAKER_02]: See you next time.
