Andreas Widmer on Why Principled Entrepreneurship Creates Enduring Value EP 198

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Andreas Widmer: Coming up next
on the passion struck podcast,
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we greatly impoverished the
concept of entrepreneurship if
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we reduce it to starting a
company, I'd like to think of
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the world as having two kinds of
people in it. That's creators
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and harvesters. And the
entrepreneurs are the creators.
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There are people who come up
with ideas who find solutions to
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opportunities and problems, who
think always Is the glass half
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full and find a way to go
forward in a positive sense of
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building and lifting up.
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John Miles: Welcome to passion
struck. Hi, I'm your host, John
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R. Miles and on the show, we
decipher the secrets, tips and
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guidance of the world's most
inspiring people and turn their
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wisdom into practical advice for
you and those around you. Our
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mission is to help you unlock
the power of intentionality so
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that you can become the best
version of yourself. If you're
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new to the show. I offer advice
and answer listener questions on
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Fridays. We have long form
interviews the rest of the week
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with guests ranging from
astronauts to authors, CEOs,
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creators, innovators,
scientists, military leaders,
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visionaries and athletes. Now,
let's go out there and become
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passionate struck. Hello,
everyone, and welcome back to
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Episode 198 of passion struck.
recently ranked by Apple is one
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of the top five alternative
health podcasts. And thank you
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to each and every one of you who
come back weekly to listen and
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learn how to live better, be
better and impact the world in
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case you missed it. Earlier this
week, I interviewed the one and
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only Daniel Pink, who is the
author of five New York Times
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bestsellers, including his
latest the power of regret
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looking backwards moves us
forward. He is also the author
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of the number one New York Times
bestsellers, Drive and to sell
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us human. And in case you missed
my solo episode from last week,
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it was on cognitive biases and
six ways that you can break
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through their trap. I also want
to say thank you so much for
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your continued support of your
ratings and reviews, which goes
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such a long way to improving the
popularity of the show. And if
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you're new to the show, thank
you so much for being here, or
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you would like to introduce it
to a friend or family member. We
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now have starter packs on both
Spotify as well as the passion
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struck website which are
collections of our favorite
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episodes that give any new
listener a great way to get
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acquainted to everything we do
here on the show. Just go to
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passion spark.com/starter packs
to get started. Now let's talk
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about today's guest Andreas
Widmer is a seasoned
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entrepreneur with a passion for
helping business professionals
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find deeper meaning in their
work and sustainable success
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through principled
entrepreneurship. Andreas has
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taught entrepreneurship at the
Catholic University of America's
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Bush School of Business since
2012. He is the author of the
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new book The Art of Principled
Entrepreneurship creating
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enduring value. He is also the
author of the Pope and the CEO,
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good profit, and Human Ecology.
In our interview today, undress
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shares his philosophy on how to
start and do business in a way
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that's both virtuous and
profitable. He recounts his
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favorite success stories and
pays special tribute to his dear
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friend and prominent business
leader Art Ciocca, who is best
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known for inventing wine box and
forming the wine group which is
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one of the largest wine
companies in the world. We're
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also illustrates some of these
principles with stories from
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French tire manufacturer,
Michelin and Bangladesh's
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Grameenphone, thank you for
choosing passion struck and
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choosing me to be your host and
guide on your journey to
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creating an intentional life.
Now, let that journey began.
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I am so excited to welcome
Andreas Widmer to the passion
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strength podcast. Welcome
undress. Thanks for having me,
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John. Well, I know the audience
it was loves to get to know our
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guests before we dive into the
main topic, which today is going
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to be your new book, which is
right behind you in this
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picture. And we'll make sure we
put this on YouTube for the
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viewers who are out there. But
we're gonna get into principled
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entrepreneurship throughout most
of the episode, but I did want
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to start out with this question.
We all have moments that define
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us. What is a moment that shaped
who you are today?
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Andreas Widmer: Well, good
question. I have to say I'm
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starting with I was born in
Switzerland in a small village
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and I grew up on the youngest of
six, I grew up without really
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understanding or knowing who I
am as the youngest. I sort of
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tried always to live up to my
older siblings. I tell you, I
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just couldn't find my role or my
position in life when I was in
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Switzerland. And the only thing
I excelled at, I'm six foot
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nine. I'm a pretty big guy and I
excelled in the military in
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Switzerland. And so after my
recruit school, I'm a
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noncommissioned officer in
Switzerland. I saw that I could
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go into foreign Legion to become
a bodyguard and I thought, I'm
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going to do that that's the
coolest thing there is to do
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especially for somebody like me
who excelled physically, and I
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signed up to become one of the
bodyguards for the Pope. And
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there's a unit the oldest
existing military unit in the
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world is called the Swiss Guards
and the Vatican and they protect
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the poor Nope. And lo and
behold, I applied, I never
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thought they would take me and
they accepted me. And so I go
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there with this mix of being
really excited about it. Also
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not really doing it for
religious reasons, because I
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grew up kind of Catholic, but
not Not, not in a big way. But
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then also with this kind of
insecurity about myself that I
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felt everything I did was sort
of always putting on a mask and
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sort of pretending that I knew
what I was doing, or pretending
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I was a tough, tough guy. And I
sort of underneath had an
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existential crisis as I joined.
And it turned out that when
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you're a bodyguard to somebody
hanging out with that person a
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lot. And for me, that was John
Paul, the second, the Pope, in
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those days in the 80s 90s. And
first time we met he, he noticed
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that right away, and he actually
started to talk with me and
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model for me what it means to be
a person who store up themselves
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in terms of this is who I am,
and I live fully out my
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humanity. And he changed my
life, he saw that I was
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struggling with this. And he
introduced me to mental prior to
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prayer in general, introduced me
to a way of looking at the world
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and has me in the world to bring
my excellence to it. He gave me
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this idea that I am willed, and
I have certain talents and ideas
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that I could fill out. There was
never in the history of the
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world, anybody liked me. And
there will never be anybody like
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me in the future of the history
of the world. So if I don't
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become me fully, this
opportunity will never come
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around to do what I ought to do
in the world. And going forward
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that defined everything I did
from there on.
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John Miles: Wow, what an amazing
story. And being a military
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veteran myself. One thing I've
always wondered, because I've
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been to the Vatican multiple
times to visit is when you see
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the switch guard there, I never
understood kind of the backdrop
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for the training that they go
through, is it considered to be
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a special forces unit, and you
go through some of that type of
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training?
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Andreas Widmer: Yeah. It's like
the Secret Service here in the
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United States, it is considered
an elite force there. I mean,
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what you're seeing on the front
with the uniforms is sort of the
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it's like seeing the Marines in
the at the White House. That's
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not fully what they do. They act
like Secret Service, black suit
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and all that.
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John Miles: Well, I want to ask
you just a couple more questions
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about your experience, you wrote
a book called The Pope and the
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CEO, where you discuss your
relationship with Pope John Paul
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the Second, what qualities made
him the most authentically human
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person you've ever met?
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Andreas Widmer: First of all,
that he paid attention to you in
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the moment, every time I met
that, man, the thing is, being a
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swisscard, looks somewhat
glamorous to the outside. But
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the truth is, it's not you're a
fly on the wall, your service is
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done well when nobody notices
you. But he did. And whenever he
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talked to me, I felt like he
paid so much attention that I
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thought like, I'm the reason he
got up in the morning. And then
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I talked to other people, and I
find out he did the same thing
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for them. So this living in the
moment when you have come out of
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this understanding of who you
are as a person, you can be
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authentically present. That made
a huge difference in his impact
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on other people, and especially
his impact on me, it made him so
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authentic, and this genuine
interest in who I am.
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John Miles: Well, I happen to
hear another podcast and you
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talked about a great story that
you shared between the Pope and
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your parents. And I was hoping
maybe you could just dive into
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that, because I thought it was
really touching.
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Andreas Widmer: Yeah, so one of
the things we have as a
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tradition is that he invites
your parents to come to the
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Vatican, and he thanks to him
for your service. And it's sort
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of symbolic way and, and you
know, so he knew of my
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existential crisis and all that
and started to pay attention to
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me. And as I walked up with my
parents, and this is sort of the
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change in experience, that was
when you're younger, you hold
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your parents hands, but here I
am walking up to the Pope with
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my parents, and they held my
hand. It was just the other way
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around. And as I approached, he
immediately says, oh, Andre is
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and he goes to my mother. He's
one of my favorites. And then he
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goes through things that I do.
Well, he noticed and he told my
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mother and my dad, what he liked
about what I was doing, and what
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he felt my strengths were and it
was genuine. And it just struck
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me like I am six, nine, I
probably grew a few more inches
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right then and there. But I'm
telling you that this sincerity,
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gave me a fulfillment and the
purpose and that and a
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commitment to work with this man
in this organization. Because
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remember, he was my boss. Don't
put too much religion on this.
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This is your boss, you're
working with him. And he turns
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around and he tells your
parents, I really liked working
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with him and hear the talents he
has and he's doing a really
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great job. That kind of buildup
is worth more than arrays. It
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gave me real commitment to love
to work. with him.
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John Miles: Yes. And for the
listeners who might not be
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familiar with the Pope, he
became Pope, John Paul the
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Second, very shortly after his
predecessor had an unfortunate
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cardiac arrest after I think it
was only 33 days in office. And
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he took on this name to honor
his predecessor who took on the
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name to honor the two
predecessors before him if I
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have the right. But he had to
step into some very uncertain
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times, because there were a lot
of cardinals who were worried at
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the time that his predecessors
death might not have been from
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natural causes. And so he is
coming into this enclave of
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cardinals and has to thrust
himself into this new
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environment. And then he becomes
one of the longest standing
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Pope's in the history, I think,
the second longest standing,
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what qualities of leadership did
you find in him, because he's
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not only the Pope, but he's also
the CEO of the Catholic Church.
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What made him such a good one?
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Andreas Widmer: I think it's
this again, coming back to
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recognizing people's true
talents, see the benefit of
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doing what he did of luck
getting to know me and knowing
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my talents, is that he was able
to put a team together, where he
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matched talents and non talents
and put people in positions
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where they could shine on their
talent, like knowing humans,
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well, you recognize somebody's
talent, and you put them into a
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position where they could
flourish. So he had something
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called the Secretary of State,
which is the foreign minister,
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basically. And he's from Poland,
behind the Iron Curtain back
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then they had to deal with
Russia and the Soviet Union. And
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that was very, very difficult to
do. And it's a long story, very
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perilous situation there was
Poland was always close to
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martial law. And the violin put
down their protests with their
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solidarity, union and so on. And
he needed somebody to go in
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there to be a great diplomat for
it. And he found that in a man
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who actually wasn't exactly like
him, who actually covered for
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one of his non talents with his
talent, and sort of, in a way
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created this perfect front, that
two people next to each other,
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who represented the Vatican in
his foreign minister, were able
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to optimize and become one of
the key forces in actually, even
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the demise of the Soviet Union.
Because that goes all back to
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his ability to recognize talent,
and then put people in the right
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job for the right talent.
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John Miles: We'll be right back
to my interview with Andreas
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Widmer. To live your healthiest
longest life possible, you need
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to understand what's going on
inside your body, people age at
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struct.com/deals. Now, back to
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00:13:44,460 --> 00:13:46,350
my interview with Andreas
Widmer,
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an amazing quality for any
leader to have really, because
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getting the right team on the
bus is one of the most important
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things you can do.
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Andreas Widmer: It is absolutely
doable. This is something we can
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all learn.
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John Miles: Well, that leads me
to a question I want to ask you.
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And that is there's this age old
debate. Are people born
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entrepreneurs? Or can
entrepreneurship be learned?
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What is your perspective on
that?
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Andreas Widmer: It's a yes. But
so yes, everybody can learn to
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be an entrepreneur. It depends a
bit on your definition of an
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entrepreneur. One of the points
I make in my book is we greatly
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impoverished the concept of
entrepreneurship, if we reduce
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it to starting a company. I'd
like to think of the world as
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having two kinds of people in
it. That's creators and
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harvesters. And the
entrepreneurs are the creators.
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There are people who come up
with ideas who find solutions to
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opportunities and problems who
think always Is the glass half
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full and find a way to go
forward in a positive sense and
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up building and lifting up. And
from that perspective, anybody
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can learn to do that. It has to
do with an inner attitude. If
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we're saying can anybody be a
startup person in a company? You
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I would say not everybody has to
that's something sometimes for
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different stages in life that
you can do something like this.
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And sometimes you can't. But my
general answer is that everybody
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can be an entrepreneur. And I
would actually even say
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everybody ought to be an
entrepreneur.
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John Miles: Yes, I think you
make a good point there. Because
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whether it was when I was in big
for consulting, or when I joined
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fortune 500 companies, we had
this concept of an intrapreneur,
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which I would say I was because
I was always whether it was at
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Arthur Andersen trying to create
a new practice, or through my
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time in Fortune five hundreds
trying to create new products or
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business ventures, you can
absolutely be an entrepreneur in
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a bigger company, if that's what
your goal is, in fact, I think
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it's very important, especially
when we're using things like
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design principles and critical
thinking that you embrace things
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such like that.
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Andreas Widmer: I have a little
on my website, Andreas
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dashwood.com, I have a little
quiz you can take. And it tells
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you what at this stage in life,
what kind of entrepreneur you
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are, because I also make the
distinction between being an
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employee entrepreneur or a
franchise entrepreneur or, or a
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startup entrepreneur. And so
what I'm trying to do is pry
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open the possibilities to show
that this initiative, and this
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realization of creativity is
something that we're all called
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to.
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John Miles: Well, I think that's
great. And thank you for
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pointing out the website. I was
going to ask you later on in the
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discussion, but I'm glad you got
it out there right now. Well, if
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we're going to dive into the art
of principle, entrepreneurship,
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I think probably the best
starting point for listeners who
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might not be familiar with the
concept is, can you define what
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principled entrepreneurship is,
and its origin?
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Andreas Widmer: So let me first
define it principle.
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Entrepreneurship is a mindset of
creating enduring value for the
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customer through your own
excellence. So the core of
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principle entrepreneurship is to
say, how may I help you in a
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business, that's the core
sentence of a business, I am
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going to use my talents to
create value for you. And the
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value I create is, of course,
the common value that we create
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or how we measure value nowadays
with profitably, we measure it
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financially. And so how can I
help you, I use my talents to
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create value for you. And if I
do this on a long term with a
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long term focus, I would call
that principle entrepreneurship.
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Now, the original term comes out
of a book called good profit by
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Charles Koch, who has a
management theory called market
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based management. And in there
he has that term that points
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towards this, these creators,
these people in a company and
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even for him it was for more
than just a Startup Creator but
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the creator in a sense of the
solutions to problems in any
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company at any stage that he
would call principle
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entrepreneur. And I sort of
picked that up and took it from
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there.
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John Miles: So I was recently
interviewing Jean Oh Wang, I'm
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not sure if you're familiar with
who she is, but she is Richard
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Branson's right hand person at
Virgin and she runs Virgin
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Unite, which is their
philanthropic arm. But she is
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also a team leader for a group
called the B team that Richard
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Branson founded with Jochen
zygotes. And they're a group of
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well known leaders, like Marc
Benioff is one of them who are
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trying to shift away from short
term gain, to balance the long
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00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:46,350
term benefits for helping people
on the planet on topics like
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growing inequality,
unemployment, and unsustainable
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use of natural resources. How
can being a principled
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entrepreneur applying these
principles help leaders in the
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00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:03,570
future to recognize the need,
that leaders in the future not
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only need to be stewards of
shareholder value, but also need
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to be doing good in the world?
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Andreas Widmer: I would say the
way that leaders business
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leaders do good in the world is
by the business itself. So one
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of the things I focus on is that
we sort of have two ways of
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approaching business. And this
is somewhat of a critique first,
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and then a solution of what I
mean, many times leaders say,
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well, we need to go out and
change the world and this and
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that and actually start to focus
outside of the company. I would
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caution against that and say,
let's go back to the beginning.
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What we need to do is to focus
on actually what our business
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does. We do, unfortunately, too
little of that. And we only
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focus on the outcome of our
businesses. So we focus on the
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00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:47,850
profit and then what do we do
with the profit? What we're
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forgetting is the work itself
and the feeling in the in the
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culture of meaning inside the
company that has a result that
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two thirds of our workforce is
disengaged. So six out Out of 10
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employees in the United States
can't wait to get home in the
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evening. They hate their jobs.
Is that their fault? No, it's
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not their fault. It's a bit like
a football team. If you send a
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football team on the field, and
they're not motivated for it,
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whose fault is that? That's our
fault. That's management's fault
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as the CEOs fault. That, in some
sense, is also our culture's
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fault. You see, what we're doing
is, with well meant efforts, we
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have sort of two paradigms to
decide to define what business
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is all about. And the one hand
you have the freedom and
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doctrine of saying the only
thing that matters is profit,
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create shareholder value, that's
the only thing you need to do.
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Then you have this other idea
that says, well, it's sort of a
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caricature of corporate social
responsibility, but in that
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direction, that says, well, it's
okay to make a profit, but then
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you have to go out and share the
profit. And you have to do
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things beyond that afterwards,
almost in a sense to make up for
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having made the profit. I
fundamentally disagree with
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that. I think the business
itself is a force for good if
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you have to go out and make up
for having made profit that you
360
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did business wrong. Business
itself, we need to go back to
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learn to focus on the process of
business on work itself. And we
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do that by looking at just what
we talked about when we started
363
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our conversation here to look
about each person who's involved
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in the company and say, How do I
help you flourish through your
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00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,450
work, and maybe the pure
question of this is, how may I
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help you. And so if I am trying
to use my talents to help
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customers to add value for
customers, I need to be well
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aware of what my talents are.
And my company has to help me to
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live those out and to flourish
with it. When we're doing that.
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And we're putting teams
together, not only do we create
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companies and teams, where one
on one is more than two becomes
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three 510 Because it's almost
like a multiplication of the
373
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,510
loaves and the fishes like a
miracle kind of thing. Because
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we're starting to flourish as
human beings in creating these
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products and services that we
that we produce. And it gives
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00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:06,030
meaning to us in our work
itself. As a result of that we
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then turn around and emanate
that goodness because of human
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flourishing that goodness into
society and into the economy.
379
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:16,890
And that creates the kind of
benefit what I think Richard
380
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:20,370
Branson talks about to start to
see high and rising wages, to
381
00:22:20,370 --> 00:22:23,370
start to see a responsible
stewardship of environment. So
382
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:27,990
which is a fallout from the
proper purpose of the company,
383
00:22:28,020 --> 00:22:32,070
just in summary, to say, what I
think we need to do is to focus
384
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:35,820
actually more on the company
itself. So that it becomes a
385
00:22:35,820 --> 00:22:39,750
good domino effect to the
outside, versus trying to push
386
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:44,430
over the dominoes outside of the
company. And then we internally
387
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:48,240
at companies have six out of 10
people who hate the job they're
388
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:48,600
doing.
389
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,440
John Miles: Well, I'm glad you
touched on this whole topic,
390
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,440
because I'm going to stay here
for a couple of minutes. The
391
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,400
surveys that I have seen, I
cited one in my upcoming book
392
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,240
myself showed that out of the 1
billion full time workers
393
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,130
globally, 70 to 85%, are
disengaged. And then as you look
394
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at millennials, globally, 66%
are disengaged. So it's a huge
395
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:17,400
problem. Prior to starting this,
I worked for a company called
396
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,220
Bold business. And we were
trying to highlight the good
397
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:22,950
that business was doing because
people look at a company like
398
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:27,510
Verizon, and they think of them
only from the sense of profit
399
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:31,740
and loss or, you know, their
cell phone, but they don't think
400
00:23:31,770 --> 00:23:35,130
of all the capabilities that had
been enabled because of the
401
00:23:35,130 --> 00:23:37,170
software that's on the phone
that they're delivering,
402
00:23:37,170 --> 00:23:41,160
including life saving support,
being able to track your kids,
403
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:44,250
other things like that, that
wouldn't be there had it not
404
00:23:44,250 --> 00:23:48,360
been for the business. And when
I was a senior executive at
405
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:53,040
Dell, one of my peers, Erin
Mulligan was the CMO. And she
406
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,200
came up with this new branding
for the company, which ended up
407
00:23:58,470 --> 00:24:02,370
not going forward. But I thought
it would have been amazing
408
00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:07,290
because the whole concept was
Dell, the power to do more. And
409
00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:10,230
when we saw the early videos
that they were going to use in
410
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:15,930
commercials, it was all about
how different businesses were
411
00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:20,220
using Dells technology to do
good for the world, whether that
412
00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:23,490
was saving someone's life or
helping with climate change or
413
00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:28,260
something like that. Well, long
winded but it leads me to we're
414
00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:31,380
really talking about chapter
five, where you you discuss
415
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,180
corporate culture is paramount.
And how do you think through
416
00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:39,780
this lens of this disengagement?
That corporate culture is
417
00:24:39,780 --> 00:24:43,260
impacting employee engagement
and what needs to change? Do you
418
00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:43,560
think?
419
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:46,080
Andreas Widmer: Yeah, I think
there's a couple of things the
420
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,160
culture is a discontent of
meaning people search for
421
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,030
meaning. And then well well
meaning management is saying oh,
422
00:24:54,030 --> 00:24:57,840
let me find meaning. Let's go
outside of the company and start
423
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,720
to fight for fight climate
change. Go Have outside the
424
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,560
company and help poor nations
or, or disadvantaged people in
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00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,100
this net. There's nothing wrong
with that. But it is the wrong
426
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,790
medicine for the illness that we
have. The illness we have is a
427
00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:16,980
crisis of meaningful of work.
Our explanation to work is these
428
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:21,780
two cultures. CSR is a corporate
social responsibility, and free
429
00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:24,660
to Friedman doctrine. And I know
it's somewhat of a caricature of
430
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:28,590
both. But this is what sticks in
the culture. Both of these only
431
00:25:28,590 --> 00:25:32,550
deal with the outcome of work,
not within the work. So what
432
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:34,680
we're doing is we're telling
people almost to go into this
433
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,650
hamster wheel to go around and
run and run and run. And the
434
00:25:37,650 --> 00:25:41,340
only thing that ever matters is
the outcome. But the running
435
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itself loses meaning it becomes
Sisyphus work, like nihilism
436
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,960
that we run and there's no end
to it, then people, that becomes
437
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,960
depressing, people become
depressed and meaningless. And
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00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,410
then they get they start to hate
their job, what we need to do is
439
00:25:55,410 --> 00:25:59,850
to bring the meaning back into
the company. And to say, our
440
00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:03,930
objective, my objective with
you, John, you with me, is that
441
00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:07,290
we try to help each other become
the best version of ourselves,
442
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,500
we look at human flourishing, we
can measure flourishing, and all
443
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:14,880
kinds of ways in my development
of both understanding what my
444
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,240
talents are, and then advancing,
investing in the advancement of
445
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,940
my talents. And then to find my
non talents. And in a sense,
446
00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:27,420
instead of making me feel guilty
for my non talents, which is not
447
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:30,870
my fault, it's not my fault that
I'm six foot nine, and I'm not
448
00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:33,390
going to be a horse jockey, I
don't have a talent in that,
449
00:26:33,390 --> 00:26:36,270
okay, why would you make me feel
guilty about that. But what you
450
00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:39,360
do is you find people to create
teams that complement each
451
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:44,070
other, then we become a team
that actually feeds on each
452
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:47,610
other and becomes more
wholesome, together. That's how
453
00:26:47,610 --> 00:26:51,630
you create a culture of mutual
support, and common excellence.
454
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,950
What we're doing then is to put
the focus of our culture back
455
00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:58,650
into the company, and on each
one of the individuals that is
456
00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:02,610
in it, that brings life
fulfillment, happiness, and
457
00:27:02,610 --> 00:27:06,300
progress, then we can still talk
about doing things outside of
458
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:08,970
the company. But that's
something that we're almost
459
00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:11,910
dodging the ball by going
outside of the company, rather
460
00:27:11,910 --> 00:27:15,780
than improving the culture and
to focus back on work back on
461
00:27:15,780 --> 00:27:19,080
our employees and make them
flourish first.
462
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,020
John Miles: Yeah, I think that's
a great answer. And my
463
00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:25,590
experience in many of these
fortune 500 companies and groups
464
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:29,100
that I lead, is half the time
the employees didn't even know
465
00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:33,180
how their job mattered to the
benefit of the company. So the
466
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:36,510
first thing I always tried to do
was lead them on an exercise
467
00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:40,350
where they had a line of sight,
into how each one of their jobs
468
00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:44,730
impacted our core strategies
that we were trying to go after.
469
00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:46,980
Because if they're not feeling
passionate about what they're
470
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:50,190
doing, that's going to impact
all other elements of their
471
00:27:50,190 --> 00:27:53,550
performance. And it was, it was
interesting, I'm not sure if
472
00:27:53,550 --> 00:27:57,660
you're familiar with Claude
silver or not, but she is the
473
00:27:57,660 --> 00:28:01,770
right hand person for Gary Vee
at Vayner. X. She used to be on
474
00:28:01,770 --> 00:28:06,330
the ad side of the business. But
she saw this issue in Vayner. X
475
00:28:06,330 --> 00:28:09,540
and asked if he could create a
new role for her. And she is the
476
00:28:09,540 --> 00:28:15,240
first Chief Heart Officer in any
company. And her role is really
477
00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:19,410
she's overall of HR. But it's
really to figure out how do you
478
00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:23,010
keep a pulse on the heart of
employees. And so she is very
479
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:27,960
dedicated, not only to their
work life, but more importantly,
480
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,680
she's trying to understand what
are their goals bigger than work
481
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,470
that they want to pursue? And
how do we make both come
482
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:38,160
together, which I think is a
great way to start tackling this
483
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:38,550
issue.
484
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,560
Andreas Widmer: I'm not saying
that I don't care about
485
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,430
profitability, or so it's no, I
think we can walk and chew gum
486
00:28:44,430 --> 00:28:48,270
at the same time. I just think
that profitability is the result
487
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:53,430
of good profit is the result of
a system that produces it as an
488
00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:56,070
almost like as a side effect.
It's a bit like white blood
489
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:59,190
cells to the human body or like
profit to the corporations,
490
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,260
you're not the two of us. I
think sitting here we're not
491
00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:03,870
thinking about profit and white
blood cells in our body, even
492
00:29:03,870 --> 00:29:06,060
though if they weren't there,
we'd be dead in a couple of
493
00:29:06,090 --> 00:29:10,020
days. Right? So you're not
thinking about it. But why don't
494
00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:12,030
you have to think about it
because you ate your breakfast,
495
00:29:12,030 --> 00:29:15,180
you ate your lunch, you drink,
you move you get you get good
496
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:17,460
air and movement and exercise
and everything, and the white
497
00:29:17,460 --> 00:29:19,890
blood cells will take care of
themselves, they will be there.
498
00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:23,580
That's how profit is for a
company. We are sort of obsessed
499
00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:27,630
with the outcome only we should
focus on the process internally.
500
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:33,060
The hidden secret here, John, is
that we think about investment
501
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:35,160
and going on Wall Street and
everything but I'm telling you
502
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,560
all these companies should
should remember one thing and
503
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,970
one thing only is that the only
investment that has the
504
00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:46,350
possibility of infinite return
is the human person. And so all
505
00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:49,770
companies need to come back to
their employees and invest in
506
00:29:49,770 --> 00:29:53,910
them and make them allow them to
become their competitive
507
00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:54,750
advantage.
508
00:29:56,580 --> 00:29:59,370
John Miles: I completely agree
with you and you see this play
509
00:29:59,370 --> 00:30:03,120
out so much, especially in
companies over the past decade
510
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,700
who've been going through
digital transformation. And
511
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,150
oftentimes, when you think about
the transformations, whether
512
00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:14,400
it's that or they've been around
for a while, like p&g, or Nestle
513
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,540
or the Home Depot, you can't
just sit there on your laurels.
514
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:21,540
And what you've done in the
past, and the only way you're
515
00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:24,780
going to change that is to get
into the hearts and minds of the
516
00:30:24,780 --> 00:30:28,650
employees of the company.
Because it's not technology
517
00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:31,800
that's going to do the ultimate
change. Some of it comes down to
518
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,650
the processes and procedures
that you implement. But my
519
00:30:34,650 --> 00:30:37,950
experience was, overwhelmingly,
if you didn't get the hearts and
520
00:30:37,950 --> 00:30:41,880
minds of the people, and get
them to contribute to where the
521
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,880
company is going, you're never
going to reach that next point.
522
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,570
And I think that's why so many
companies that were once on the
523
00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:51,630
fortune 500 no longer exist or
have been acquired.
524
00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:54,660
Andreas Widmer: Excellence is
something that never is, it's
525
00:30:54,690 --> 00:30:57,780
only always becoming, as long as
we have a free market, we
526
00:30:57,780 --> 00:31:01,500
guarantee that excellence never
is, it's only becoming because
527
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:04,830
we allow the next person to come
to take over in a way to become
528
00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:08,190
more excellent. That is what
progress consists. I think that
529
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:11,340
the economy, I sort of afford
the idea even though I was a
530
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:13,530
soldier and everything, I
applaud the idea that the
531
00:31:13,530 --> 00:31:16,740
economy or business is like a
war, business is nothing like
532
00:31:16,740 --> 00:31:20,490
war. Business is like the
Olympics, where we all compete.
533
00:31:20,490 --> 00:31:23,910
And it actually is good for all
of us to competition, I run
534
00:31:23,910 --> 00:31:26,880
faster if there's somebody
running next to me. And I don't
535
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,940
always have to be first in order
for me to have a personal win
536
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:34,350
and the personal best. And so
this whole idea of the absolute
537
00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:39,330
best is something that is being
overrated, I think that I'm more
538
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:42,480
into saying, I want you to
achieve the best version of
539
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,380
yourself. I think you talked in
one of your previous podcast
540
00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:50,100
about this obsession with
excellence versus mediocrity,
541
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:51,780
and and saying, Well, I don't
have to be the best at
542
00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:55,620
everything, right. And I totally
agree with it with with this,
543
00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:58,350
the only thing that I need you
to be the best that is that
544
00:31:58,350 --> 00:32:02,160
being you. And that may, and
that doesn't really matter how
545
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,090
this compares to anybody else.
As long as you flourish with
546
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:08,910
your talents and your
possibilities, then that is the
547
00:32:08,910 --> 00:32:12,810
best for you. And in that sense,
the business is much more like,
548
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:17,760
like the Olympics than it is
like war, it's there's the
549
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:20,040
economy is never a zero sum
game.
550
00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:23,160
John Miles: I'm glad you brought
that up. Because I think it's
551
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,660
something that a lot of people
mess is they're constantly
552
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:32,340
trying to achieve this state
that they see of influencers or
553
00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:35,670
business leaders or sports
athletes that are around us. But
554
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:38,430
I think he made a great point
very early in our discussion
555
00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:42,360
that we are all put here for a
defined reason. We're the only
556
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,830
person who can achieve what
we're designed here to become.
557
00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:51,720
And so what we should hold
ourselves to is being what we
558
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,640
are supposed to be. And to me,
if you achieve that, then you
559
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,420
are exemplary, because you're
living out who you've intended
560
00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:04,320
to be. Now it doesn't, maybe you
don't have the wealth of Elon
561
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,290
Musk, or the fame of someone
else. But to me, it doesn't
562
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:10,200
matter if you're making an
impact. Because if you're doing
563
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,450
what God rated you for, then you
are impacting society. And all
564
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:17,880
you have to do is impact one
person and you're making a
565
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,900
difference is that can have a
tidal wave of cascading effects.
566
00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:24,810
Andreas Widmer: What chump Hall
was talking about he says don't
567
00:33:24,810 --> 00:33:28,710
waste your life trying to be
somebody else. If you have the
568
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:32,340
only opportunity of anybody in
human history to be you, that's
569
00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:36,330
a unique opportunity that nobody
else gets. Now, whether dad has
570
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,140
more money than Elon Musk or
not, doesn't matter. Because the
571
00:33:40,140 --> 00:33:43,590
goal of your life is actually
your happiness. And I don't mean
572
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:46,560
physical happiness in that
sense. To me, I mean flourishing
573
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,160
that use fire on all cylinders.
And you can all you can be to
574
00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:53,490
borrow a famous slogan, you want
to achieve that happiness, if
575
00:33:53,490 --> 00:33:56,670
you would try to be Elon Musk,
first of all you want because
576
00:33:56,670 --> 00:34:00,150
Elon Musk is already Elon Musk.
And second of all, that
577
00:34:00,150 --> 00:34:03,810
measurement of excellence
doesn't apply to you. Therefore,
578
00:34:03,810 --> 00:34:06,870
that's not the food of your
soul. That's not what's going to
579
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:09,780
make you happy. The only thing
that gonna make you happy is
580
00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:13,440
what you were created to, to be
happy with. And that's why it's
581
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,940
so important that you go up your
trajectory, and not somebody
582
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:20,940
else's, because you will not
find happiness in somebody
583
00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:21,660
else's life.
584
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:25,980
John Miles: Well, I think, to
that exact point is why so many
585
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:28,440
people today are experiencing
whether it's chronic
586
00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:32,760
hopelessness or helplessness or
loneliness. It all stems from
587
00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:36,180
what you said earlier on, we
wear this mask of pretense
588
00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:39,150
trying to be someone that we're
not instead of being ourselves.
589
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,000
Andreas Widmer: Look, I've done
it. I've done it for a long
590
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,400
time. And that's why I share it
and I want to share with
591
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,000
everybody Hey, this is a great
solution to this. And it makes
592
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,350
you so much more peaceful and
calm by discerning who you are,
593
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:55,470
and then living that out. It's
finding peace, right?
594
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,340
John Miles: Well, I think that's
a great lead in and yes, it is
595
00:34:59,340 --> 00:35:02,730
finding peace. And I think it's
a great lead in to discussing
596
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:09,120
your long term mentor art Siaka
because he was someone who lived
597
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,590
his best life and became the
person he was intended to be.
598
00:35:13,650 --> 00:35:17,400
Can you discuss why art made
such a major impact on your
599
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:17,910
life?
600
00:35:19,590 --> 00:35:22,770
Andreas Widmer: So our CIO guy
met many years ago, he was a
601
00:35:22,770 --> 00:35:26,190
CEO. I was the CEO at the time,
but he was a much bigger deal
602
00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:29,700
than I was he built the second
largest wine company in the
603
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,430
world. Most of you would know
some of his products even though
604
00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:35,490
you've never heard of him or his
company. The company is called
605
00:35:35,490 --> 00:35:38,400
the wine group and the kinds of
inventions and things he brought
606
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,640
to market over his 4050 year
career. He's the guy who
607
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,240
invented the box wine. franzia
is one of his brands, he made
608
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,890
popular the wine coolers and
wine spritzers, he made the
609
00:35:49,890 --> 00:35:53,670
concept of Italian table wine,
the, you know, the tabla, he
610
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:57,180
made it palpable for the
American palate. That's his
611
00:35:57,180 --> 00:36:01,290
great achievement to create this
huge market of American table
612
00:36:01,290 --> 00:36:05,220
wine, not like French Fufu, wine
Chateauneuf, Depop, or whatever.
613
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,460
But Italian table wine, he
didn't do it by creating this
614
00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:13,290
one product, what he did is he
created a company that had a
615
00:36:13,290 --> 00:36:17,040
culture in it that were
conducive to innovation and
616
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,880
progress. people, once they
joined him, they stayed with the
617
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,090
company, it was a management on
owned company, so everybody in
618
00:36:24,090 --> 00:36:27,660
the company could get into
management in that sense. And
619
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:31,740
the management owned the
company. And their focus was, as
620
00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:34,590
he declared principle,
entrepreneurship and long term
621
00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:40,350
value creation of the company.
And he had many very contrarian
622
00:36:40,830 --> 00:36:44,760
approaches to it. But we can
maybe cover that afterwards. The
623
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,880
meaning he had for me is that he
and I, once when we were still
624
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,930
CEOs got together and tried to
bring some college professor and
625
00:36:51,930 --> 00:36:55,230
university professors together
to show them to argue with them
626
00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:58,470
that business is a force for
good by itself. Business as an
627
00:36:58,470 --> 00:37:01,710
activity is a good thing for
society. It's not a negative,
628
00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:05,790
it's a net positive. And we did
two years of three years in a
629
00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:08,010
row, we did the seminars with
these professors, and I'm
630
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:10,710
telling you, we could make a
dent, they hate a business
631
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:14,490
afterwards as much as they did
before. And then I got this
632
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:17,310
offer this opportunity to start
a business school with some
633
00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:20,280
friends here in Washington, DC
at the Catholic University of
634
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,370
America. And I called Art and I
said, You wouldn't believe the
635
00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:26,910
opportunity I have. And he's
like, I'm all in, I was a part
636
00:37:26,910 --> 00:37:29,850
of the starting this business
school. And I created the Center
637
00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:33,810
for principles entrepreneurship.
And art became a partner in this
638
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,740
and my founder my donor for it.
And we've worked on that center
639
00:37:37,740 --> 00:37:41,250
now for the last 10 years. And
then as it pertains to this
640
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:44,520
book, I basically wanted to
write a book about what we do at
641
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,790
the center and and how one does
the art principle
642
00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:50,640
entrepreneurship. And I thought,
well, who better to use as a
643
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,240
model than art who is the art of
principle entrepreneurship to
644
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,720
me. And so I called him it was
actually just before COVID, I
645
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,210
was teaching in Rome for the
semester, and I called them and
646
00:38:00,210 --> 00:38:02,790
I said, Art, I have an idea, I
want to write this book, I want
647
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:06,570
to make you sort of the red
threat to added. And if you
648
00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:09,600
would just agree. And he says,
I'd love to, but I have some
649
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,170
good news and some bad news. And
I said, Well, give me the bad
650
00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:16,620
news first. And he says, My
cancer has come back, I have two
651
00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:22,320
months. I said like, well,
what's the, what's the good news
652
00:38:22,350 --> 00:38:26,370
in light of that, and he says, I
have a lot of time, all my time.
653
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:29,100
Till then I can dedicate to it
as no appointments until then.
654
00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:33,660
And it just sort of arts you
have the Creator, right. And I
655
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:36,300
said, Look, if you want to do
it, I'm happy to do it if you're
656
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:40,380
in and I said that I would
record our conversations and so
657
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:44,340
that I could use them afterwards
when he passes away. And and it
658
00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:47,040
actually turned out that he
didn't pass away two months, he
659
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,190
lived for two more years. And I
have hundreds of hours of
660
00:38:50,190 --> 00:38:53,640
recorded conversations and
interviews with them. And he
661
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,430
died three days before the book
went to print. So he saw the
662
00:38:56,430 --> 00:38:58,860
final book, he saw the result
that you can see in the book
663
00:38:58,860 --> 00:39:04,620
now, he loved the cover. And I
had this huge privilege to sit
664
00:39:04,830 --> 00:39:09,540
at the feet of a man who was 87
years old, who shared with me
665
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:12,990
what he learned over a long and
successful career, when you know
666
00:39:12,990 --> 00:39:15,180
you're gonna die, you're not
going to play politics, you
667
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:18,330
basically just give the net net
of what needs to be said about
668
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:21,810
business and the economy. And I
have this privilege now to share
669
00:39:21,810 --> 00:39:25,020
this with all of you to say
here's what this man told me.
670
00:39:25,380 --> 00:39:27,870
And I hope I did it justice in
the book.
671
00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:31,470
John Miles: Yeah, the great
thing about getting advice from
672
00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:35,730
someone like him and I'm sorry,
he has passed away is you're
673
00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:38,280
getting it at that point in
their life without any filter at
674
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,870
all, except what he believes is
the authentic truth of what it
675
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:45,150
takes to accomplish. What I
676
00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:47,670
Andreas Widmer: loved about it
is with art Co Co you know how
677
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:51,330
the story played out. I mean his
company today he could have CEO
678
00:39:51,330 --> 00:39:54,390
like 15 years ago or 20 years
ago, and his company is still
679
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:57,090
number two and his culture still
endorsing the company and
680
00:39:57,090 --> 00:39:59,880
everything. Whereas we don't
know what the end of Elon Musk
681
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,030
is. gonna look like or Bill
Gates and so on. I mean, this is
682
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:05,550
somebody who's the whole thing
has bled through and we see the
683
00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:09,120
result. It's almost like making
the talking about the result of
684
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,000
the whole thing when it's
finished. Right? Whereas often
685
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,550
we hold people up who are in the
middle of their career, which we
686
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:17,460
don't know how long live that is
going to be and how it's going
687
00:40:17,460 --> 00:40:19,290
to end up with art we No.
688
00:40:21,060 --> 00:40:23,370
John Miles: Well, in many ways,
you can look at Bill Gates, his
689
00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:26,910
legacy, which was Steve Ballmer,
his legacy in the company had
690
00:40:26,910 --> 00:40:30,480
really lost its way and was
bleeding money. Satya Nadella
691
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:34,350
came in and he's had to
completely reinvent the company
692
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:37,080
and the corporate culture. So I
think you bring up the starting
693
00:40:38,009 --> 00:40:39,929
Andreas Widmer: point. I'm also
from that industry. And my
694
00:40:39,929 --> 00:40:42,539
whole, all my companies are high
tech, and I competed and
695
00:40:42,539 --> 00:40:45,719
collaborated with Microsoft. And
there you have it, there was a
696
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,779
culture, even a toxic culture,
in my opinion in the company
697
00:40:48,779 --> 00:40:52,169
that the new CEO had to revise
and make much better, which I
698
00:40:52,169 --> 00:40:53,429
understand is much better now.
699
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,900
John Miles: Yes, I have a great
Steve Ballmer story. I've got a
700
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:00,660
few of them from both my time at
Lowe's and Dell, but I'm not
701
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:04,560
going to go there. Perhaps we
can discuss them later on. I did
702
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,480
want to go into your center that
you're running now. Because in
703
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,180
the book, you lay out that there
are three components of teaching
704
00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:15,630
principled entrepreneurship. And
I was hoping that you could go
705
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:18,210
through those because I thought
they were a great framework.
706
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:22,560
Andreas Widmer: That's my
codification in a sense of that.
707
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,000
How may I help you? I keep going
back to this because business is
708
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,170
not complicated. Businesses are
the directors, how may I help
709
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,010
you? So I need to first find out
what is my talent, and I work
710
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:37,830
with my students, every one of
my students starts a business
711
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:41,520
because Business School is the
only place where you can get
712
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,040
even an MBA and everything
without ever having touched a
713
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,620
patient, you'd never give
somebody a doctor or a medical
714
00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:49,980
doctor without them having done
surgery. But in business school,
715
00:41:49,980 --> 00:41:54,150
we do this all the time, I That
makes no sense to me. So in the
716
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:57,630
first day of business school, I
get up and I say, you're
717
00:41:57,630 --> 00:42:00,240
starting a business today is
like going into the pool to
718
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,900
learn to swim, I'm not going to
do this on dry land. And the way
719
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:07,170
to find your talents is by me
starting to do stuff with you,
720
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,390
how would you know which
instrument to play, if I didn't
721
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:12,210
let you handle them, I'm
starting a business or they
722
00:42:12,210 --> 00:42:14,970
start a guide to students to
start a business, every one of
723
00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:19,200
them 200 People a semester. And
what I'm doing it is with an eye
724
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,340
towards helping you find your
talents. And for that I sort of
725
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:25,650
have a method to go quickly
through, it's almost like
726
00:42:25,650 --> 00:42:28,350
touching each instrument to see
if you like the sound of it or
727
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:31,650
so. Because when you have a
talent, something resonates with
728
00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:34,410
you right away. It's a bit like
listening to good music or
729
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,260
tasting good food, your palate
will tell you if it likes it
730
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,770
right away. And so it is with
business. So let's practice some
731
00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:43,590
business, do some business. And
then you find out what your
732
00:42:43,590 --> 00:42:48,390
talents are. Once you find that
talent, the key to business is a
733
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:52,560
very simple thing. How do you
create value for others not for
734
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,270
you, when you create value for
others with that talent? That
735
00:42:57,330 --> 00:43:01,530
takes a fundamental shift. We're
all born navel gazing, we're all
736
00:43:01,590 --> 00:43:04,920
focused on ourselves. And so
what we need to do is put the
737
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,610
head up and say, look at the
other person and say, what's it
738
00:43:08,610 --> 00:43:12,240
to them? Like what I'm doing
here? How does this add value to
739
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,000
you? It's actually a very
Christian approach to say, How
740
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,380
can I help you. And when you
help somebody, well, then you
741
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,860
creative value that wasn't there
before. It's one of the great
742
00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:25,590
insights of the economy. So for
example, this is a pen from
743
00:43:25,590 --> 00:43:29,280
Switzerland, it's a karandaaz
pen, very nice. It's a fountain
744
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:34,020
pen, it probably cost that
company. I don't know 10 bucks
745
00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:36,870
and materials to make with their
talents and everything. They
746
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:42,120
sold this to me for like $150
that money or even if it cost
747
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,790
them $50 and $100. More, that
$100 Extra is the value that
748
00:43:47,790 --> 00:43:50,520
this adds to me. Otherwise, I
would just buy the pieces and
749
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,940
put it together myself. But the
value they add to me by doing
750
00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:59,400
this is $100. And that $100 is
new money. This on the doors has
751
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,510
never been there before. It's
what we call profit. But I like
752
00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:07,620
to call it new money just to
make people understand that this
753
00:44:07,620 --> 00:44:11,070
money isn't I'm taking it from
you know, it's it's new. It's
754
00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:14,220
something that's created new.
That's what I mean by creating
755
00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:19,080
value for others. How am I help
you? Once you figure that out?
756
00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:24,840
You have figured out the
conundrum or the riddle of
757
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,320
business. And once I teach this
to you, you will go and figure
758
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,290
out the rest on your own. Sorry
to go so long about this. But
759
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,770
this is one of the core the core
passionate topics I have.
760
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:41,460
John Miles: Well, throughout the
book, you bring up this idea of
761
00:44:41,490 --> 00:44:47,430
creativity. And in my upcoming
book, I have a chapter where I
762
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:51,570
have the five plateaus on your
way to becoming passion struck.
763
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:57,060
And the last plateau is the need
to become a creative amplifier.
764
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,470
And in your book you mentioned
that human and creativity fuels
765
00:45:01,470 --> 00:45:05,340
the American dream. Why is that?
And how do you incentivize
766
00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:09,600
sustainable value creation
instead of value redistribution.
767
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,290
Andreas Widmer: So value
creation is important because
768
00:45:13,470 --> 00:45:16,710
just what I explained now that
we need to make sure that our
769
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:20,580
economy is a pizzeria or not a
pizza, redistribution is when
770
00:45:20,580 --> 00:45:22,770
there's one pizza. And if
there's three more people coming
771
00:45:22,770 --> 00:45:26,490
into the party, we're going to
have to reassign the slices. But
772
00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:29,490
the truth is that the economy,
the more business you make, the
773
00:45:29,490 --> 00:45:33,090
more money you make, we
literally make money, we make
774
00:45:33,090 --> 00:45:35,820
new money, there's not a fixed
amount of money in the world, we
775
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:38,880
need to make sure that that
stays like this. And the only
776
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,540
way this stays like this is if
we have a free economy, a market
777
00:45:42,540 --> 00:45:45,690
based economy where I can start
a business and I'm not free to
778
00:45:45,690 --> 00:45:49,770
compete against anybody, I want
to go better, faster, cheaper,
779
00:45:49,860 --> 00:45:54,240
and farther. When we do that, it
gives social mobility because
780
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,910
people who weren't winners
before can become the winners,
781
00:45:57,090 --> 00:46:00,960
and therefore go up in society
and socioeconomic status. And
782
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,930
that is the fuel of the American
dream, because it attracts other
783
00:46:03,930 --> 00:46:06,870
people doing the same thing. So
we need to have this constant
784
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:11,250
constant rolling over in social
classes. So that we become what
785
00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:15,420
America is a mixing pot of
everybody and anybody, everybody
786
00:46:15,420 --> 00:46:19,290
gets a chance, which is the
American dream. The reason why
787
00:46:19,290 --> 00:46:23,820
creativity is important for that
is that unless you create more
788
00:46:23,820 --> 00:46:26,610
value than the guy before you,
you're not going to win in
789
00:46:26,610 --> 00:46:30,690
competition. But there's another
aspect to this, that has to do
790
00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:34,980
with a fundamental idea of who
we humans are, but animals can't
791
00:46:34,980 --> 00:46:37,890
create. I'm not talking about a
gorilla banging two stones
792
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:40,230
together to break up or
something like that. I'm talking
793
00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:45,330
about the internet or a Boeing
747 or penicillin or so. Did you
794
00:46:45,330 --> 00:46:48,630
ever notice that animals can't
do that? We can do that as
795
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:51,960
humans. But biologically, we are
exactly the same like the
796
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,620
animals. And that tells you that
our creativity is something
797
00:46:55,620 --> 00:46:59,010
higher than nature. Chapo would
say the reason why the animal
798
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:04,230
cannot create an AI can create
is because I am of course made
799
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:08,670
in the image and likeness of the
Creator. We humans become more
800
00:47:08,670 --> 00:47:12,840
human. When we create. John Paul
had his famous sentence that
801
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,760
when we work, we don't just make
more we become more creativity
802
00:47:17,940 --> 00:47:22,140
is a part of humanity of
humaneness. That necessarily,
803
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:25,560
when you create, you actually
become better at being human.
804
00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:31,080
And that is why it is central to
who we are, and we cannot lose
805
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:31,860
creativity.
806
00:47:33,150 --> 00:47:37,710
John Miles: I think everything
you have just laid out is so
807
00:47:37,710 --> 00:47:42,660
important. And I think another
key component of it is when you
808
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:45,900
do that you go from a self
centric view to a world centric
809
00:47:46,050 --> 00:47:51,210
view. And that's what we need
more of today. Well, I kind of
810
00:47:51,210 --> 00:47:56,550
wanted to end today by you
talking about art, and some of
811
00:47:56,550 --> 00:48:02,040
his achievements. And you write
about in the book that the craft
812
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,300
of winemaking is inseparable
from its finished product. How
813
00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:10,590
can we apply that analogy to our
own personal journey? And what
814
00:48:10,590 --> 00:48:13,620
would art's advice be on this
topic?
815
00:48:14,190 --> 00:48:16,950
Andreas Widmer: He loves talking
about this, this wording I used
816
00:48:16,980 --> 00:48:19,800
earlier about creators and
harvesters that actually comes
817
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,790
from him. And he would say
there's two kinds of winemakers,
818
00:48:23,790 --> 00:48:27,120
there's creators and harvesters,
if all I do when I get the
819
00:48:27,150 --> 00:48:29,880
vineyard is just harvest,
Harvest, harvest harvest, and I
820
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,570
just focus on the outcome of it.
And I just grab the and just
821
00:48:33,570 --> 00:48:38,550
make my wine right away. And
then after the agricultural
822
00:48:38,550 --> 00:48:41,790
cycle of like six, seven years,
is after one of these cycles,
823
00:48:41,820 --> 00:48:44,790
the vineyard will be
interesting, like it will not
824
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:49,140
produce good grapes anymore. But
I'm a creator. What I do is
825
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:52,500
actually Of course I harvest.
But my focus of my business is
826
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,490
actually on the grape growing
and winemaking in the first
827
00:48:56,490 --> 00:49:00,660
place. So I invest in the soil,
I invest in pruning the vines, I
828
00:49:00,660 --> 00:49:03,690
invest in the people who do all
of this, to make sure that the
829
00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:07,350
vineyard gets the best care, eye
watering and all of that. And he
830
00:49:07,350 --> 00:49:11,610
says this is an analogy to your
business to any business. Any
831
00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:15,750
business is a vineyard. And the
product of it is the wine. And
832
00:49:15,750 --> 00:49:18,690
this is what I mean by saying
that our focus needs to go back
833
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:22,770
inside the company, tend your
vineyard, be a creator in your
834
00:49:22,770 --> 00:49:25,680
vineyard. Because if you're just
a harvester, and you're just
835
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,650
looking at what comes down the
river, then pretty soon the
836
00:49:28,650 --> 00:49:32,880
source of your prosperity will
dry up. And we're starting to
837
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,780
see that one of the canaries in
the coal mine on this is our
838
00:49:36,780 --> 00:49:41,970
workforce. And we can see that
two thirds of our workforce has
839
00:49:41,970 --> 00:49:45,360
turned off. And that's a sign
that we have stopped being
840
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,200
creators and we're not tending
the vineyard. And I hope that
841
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,580
this book is a contribution to
inspire people to pay attention
842
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:56,400
to the inside of the company to
the vineyard so to speak.
843
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,000
John Miles: Yes, well, it's
interesting. And as I've done my
844
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,380
research, whether you look at
Brookings or other organizations
845
00:50:04,380 --> 00:50:06,870
that are out there,
entrepreneurship rates have
846
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:12,090
actually been in decline since
the 1970s. And that has a huge
847
00:50:12,090 --> 00:50:15,750
ripple effect on business
fatality. Because if new
848
00:50:15,810 --> 00:50:19,890
businesses aren't being created
and turned over and that people
849
00:50:19,890 --> 00:50:24,390
aren't flourishing, like we were
when the United States and much
850
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:27,930
of western culture was being so
much more innovative and what we
851
00:50:27,930 --> 00:50:32,580
were doing, and so I think,
maybe that's a great lead in to
852
00:50:32,610 --> 00:50:35,340
the last question I wanted to
ask you. And that's in chapter
853
00:50:35,340 --> 00:50:38,430
eight, you discussed the
importance of inspiring the next
854
00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:41,640
generation. And you talk about
something called the trading
855
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,700
game, and how it gauges
happiness. And I was hoping I
856
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:48,660
could just use that as a lead in
to some parting words that you
857
00:50:48,660 --> 00:50:52,590
want to give to this new
generation, many of whom are
858
00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:53,730
listeners to the show.
859
00:50:55,410 --> 00:50:59,910
Andreas Widmer: So that's a tall
order, my core calling to you,
860
00:50:59,940 --> 00:51:03,300
when you're listening to this,
is that stop trying to live
861
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:06,690
somebody else's life, do not
measure yourself on other people
862
00:51:06,690 --> 00:51:09,930
in the sense of how much money
do they make, and so on. I see
863
00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:12,990
it in my classes here at the
University all the time, the
864
00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:17,250
best time you can spend as a
young person is to find out who
865
00:51:17,250 --> 00:51:21,360
am I and what are my talents,
and then unashamedly and without
866
00:51:21,390 --> 00:51:26,310
any hesitation, pursue an
investment in those talents. I
867
00:51:26,370 --> 00:51:29,820
often go with my own example
that I absolutely suck at
868
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:34,980
numbers, okay, I have not a
numerical mind at all. And so I
869
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,370
tried to make up for this and
felt bad about it half of my
870
00:51:38,370 --> 00:51:41,550
life and try to cover my
weakness on this, which only
871
00:51:41,550 --> 00:51:45,420
ends in disaster. Instead, what
I started to do, and that is the
872
00:51:45,420 --> 00:51:48,420
part of the solution is to
identify actually to say, look,
873
00:51:48,420 --> 00:51:51,960
my nan strengths have to do with
details and numbers and sort of
874
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,730
very nitty gritty stuff. My
talents are much more in the big
875
00:51:56,730 --> 00:52:00,090
sense and speaking and concepts
and stuff like this. And then
876
00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:04,320
because I understand this, I can
confidently pursue my strengths.
877
00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:07,800
And that actually gives me
happiness and fulfillment and an
878
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,350
investment in my strength is
actually bringing the real
879
00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:13,530
return on investment much more
than trying to mitigate one of
880
00:52:13,530 --> 00:52:17,610
my weaknesses. It also has
created huge friendships. Where
881
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,790
I know that the first thing I
need is somebody who is
882
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,750
completely detail oriented and
financial and accounting stuff.
883
00:52:24,810 --> 00:52:27,750
Whenever I start a company and
some of my best friends have
884
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:31,350
become sort of my union gang
friends who make up for my
885
00:52:31,350 --> 00:52:34,500
weaknesses, and it builds
beautiful friendships of
886
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:37,500
complementarity. It's one of the
things that we miss in this
887
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:41,370
world is that we always see
everything through conflict. And
888
00:52:41,370 --> 00:52:45,450
I think the world has been made
in perfect unison. And whenever
889
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:49,530
it is much more complementarity
like competition, it's almost
890
00:52:49,530 --> 00:52:53,670
like Michael Porter came up with
this word coopetition. What you
891
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:56,190
do is, yes, there is a
competition part of it. But
892
00:52:56,190 --> 00:52:59,700
cooperation is really the
seasoning of the American dream.
893
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,050
John Miles: Thank you for that
answer. And I just want to give
894
00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:07,200
one last shout out for your
book, I found it to be a very
895
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,100
enjoyable read. I love the
personal examples. And of
896
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:14,370
course, your stories about art.
If you are a person who wants to
897
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:16,560
read this, there's some great
things in there such as
898
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,880
Oregon's, and a great story
about vermouth. So I don't want
899
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,630
to give it all away. But I
highly encourage all of you to
900
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:27,150
pick up a copy of this book, and
I'll put it in the show notes.
901
00:53:27,150 --> 00:53:30,630
Well, Andreas, thank you so much
for being a guest today, and for
902
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:33,690
all that you're doing to lead
this next generation of future
903
00:53:33,690 --> 00:53:34,200
leaders.
904
00:53:34,770 --> 00:53:36,780
Andreas Widmer: Thank you, John.
Thanks for having me. And thanks
905
00:53:36,780 --> 00:53:38,520
for everybody, for listening.
906
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,540
John Miles: I thoroughly enjoyed
that interview with Andreas
907
00:53:41,540 --> 00:53:44,660
Widmer and wanted to thank
Andreas and Zilker media for the
908
00:53:44,660 --> 00:53:47,390
privilege and honor of
interviewing him links to all
909
00:53:47,390 --> 00:53:49,580
things Andreas will be in the
show notes at Passion
910
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,820
struck.com. Please use our
website links. If you buy any of
911
00:53:52,820 --> 00:53:55,190
the books from the guests that
we feature on the Show All
912
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:58,100
proceeds go to supporting the
show and making it free our
913
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:01,400
listeners videos are all in one
convenient place on YouTube at
914
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,670
John our miles we have well over
400 of them for you to take
915
00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:07,700
advantage of as well as
exclusive content that you will
916
00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:10,520
only find there, advertiser
deals and discount codes are in
917
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,750
one convenient place and passion
stock.com/deals. Please consider
918
00:54:14,750 --> 00:54:17,750
supporting those who support the
show. I'm at John R miles both
919
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:20,180
on Instagram and Twitter. And
you can also find me on
920
00:54:20,180 --> 00:54:23,360
LinkedIn. You're about to hear a
preview of the Passion struck
921
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,210
podcast interview I did with
Laura Vanderkam, who is a New
922
00:54:26,210 --> 00:54:29,810
York Times best selling author,
highly regarded speaker host of
923
00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:34,430
the podcast before breakfast and
co host with Sarah Hart Unger of
924
00:54:34,430 --> 00:54:39,200
the podcast best of both worlds
we release and discuss her brand
925
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,880
new book tranquility by Tuesday,
nine ways to calm the chaos and
926
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,500
make time for what matters.
927
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:48,290
Laura Vanderkam: I think
everyone needs to recognize that
928
00:54:48,290 --> 00:54:52,280
you have some identity that is
apart from work and as apart
929
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,730
from family and we've put a lot
of effort into work and family.
930
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,550
They require a lot of
responsibility, very meaningful
931
00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:01,460
things but they take a lot of
energy eat, and how do we get
932
00:55:01,460 --> 00:55:03,740
energy? Well, there are certain
things we can do holistically
933
00:55:03,740 --> 00:55:06,980
like getting enough sleep and
exercising. But often we draw
934
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:11,030
energy from doing meaningful
things that we personally find
935
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:15,380
enjoyable. So I challenge people
to take one night for you one
936
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:18,020
night a week or the equivalent
number of weekend hours. Do
937
00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:22,610
something that is not work. That
is not family that you
938
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:24,440
personally find fun.
939
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,020
John Miles: The fee for the show
is that you share it with
940
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:29,870
friends or family members. When
you find something useful. If
941
00:55:29,870 --> 00:55:33,020
you know someone who wants to
understand a lot more about
942
00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:36,230
entrepreneurship and especially
principled entrepreneurship
943
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:38,810
definitely share this episode
with them. The greatest
944
00:55:38,810 --> 00:55:42,020
compliment that you can give us
is to share the show with those
945
00:55:42,020 --> 00:55:44,750
that you care about. In the
meantime, do your best to apply
946
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:47,240
what you hear on the show so
that you can live what you
947
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,930
listen and until next time, live
life, passion struck.