#81 | 7 Ways Parents Can Support Non-Binary and Gender Fluid Teens With Empathy, Courage, and Connection

Autumn
00:00:00
Foreign.

Heather
00:00:06
Welcome back and happy 2023.

Heather
00:00:10
I hope your holiday season was nothing short of magical.

Heather
00:00:16
I am borderline giddy to share today's episode with you.

Heather
00:00:20
This is the first ever panel discussion on Just Breathe.

Heather
00:00:25
The three beautiful humans you are about to hear share all you need to know about themselves within their discussion and within the show.

Heather
00:00:34
Notes, of course.

Heather
00:00:35
My daughter Gray, my dear friend Kate Versage, and the insightful Autumn Graham come together to discuss the topic of gender fluidity.

Heather
00:00:45
I know you will not only enjoy, but likely learn at least one new thing as you listen to their very thoughtful discussion.

Heather
00:01:06
Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting, your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Heather
00:01:19
My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.

Heather
00:01:24
I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Heather
00:01:34
Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.

Heather
00:01:51
Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Heather
00:02:09
So thank you so much for being here today.

Heather
00:02:13
I am really, really delighted to have this the three of you on the podcast because you offer such interesting and cool and authentic just life experience and stories, and I'm just grateful that you are all here to share this with my listeners.

Heather
00:02:37
So we are going to start out just kind of really basic and see where we go from there.

Heather
00:02:42
But I would love for you to kind of weigh in because this is a topic that I think it's very, very confusing.

Heather
00:02:51
When people hear the word non binary, when they hear the word not gender fluid, they really don't understand kind of what those words mean, how they're different or if they are different.

Heather
00:03:04
Right.

Heather
00:03:05
And so I'd love to know kind of each of your takes on on those two and what your thoughts are.

Autumn
00:03:13
Okay, I can start off.

Autumn
00:03:16
So what I've been thinking ever since we got the the topic to talk about.

Autumn
00:03:22
One of the things that I was thinking of is I would always imagine first off, the term non binary.

Autumn
00:03:29
Like what does that mean?

Autumn
00:03:31
That means I how I imagine it is kind of like computer language.

Autumn
00:03:36
You can imagine, imagine the zeros being the male and the ones being female.

Autumn
00:03:41
And if you have that on a number line, for example, this being 0, this being 1, everything in between those two numbers can be classified as non binary.

Autumn
00:03:52
But I feel like at the same time that's also how gender fluid, gender fluidity works.

Autumn
00:03:59
Where it can be, it can be all across it.

Autumn
00:04:03
Which is where I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from.

Autumn
00:04:07
Inside of the two terms is non binary can be used as an umbrella term to describe everything outside of male and female.

Autumn
00:04:17
But I.

Autumn
00:04:18
I do feel like gender fluid is also sort of an umbrella term where it implies the same thing as non binary.

Autumn
00:04:26
But it does just how fluids work and liquids work is it moves back and forth between where when I used to identify as gender fluid, it would be where sometimes I would feel really masculine.

Autumn
00:04:42
Like when I was in marching band and color guard, I would love to perform.

Autumn
00:04:46
And I always felt really masculine while doing that.

Autumn
00:04:48
But other times, like when I went to homecoming with my friends, I felt very feminine.

Autumn
00:04:53
And that's where I identified as a woman.

Autumn
00:04:55
And I think that's where a lot of the understanding needs to come from.

Autumn
00:05:00
Is non binary can be used to describe any, almost anything aside from male and female gender fluid.

Autumn
00:05:08
It includes a lot all of non binary, but also the two binary terms where it just fluctuates back and forth.

Autumn
00:05:17
Because I feel like inside of that sometimes I can identify as being non binary, but I can just has just as fluid works.

Autumn
00:05:28
You can go.

Autumn
00:05:29
Not.

Autumn
00:05:30
Sorry, not that you can sometimes some days you can go and feel masculine or male.

Autumn
00:05:39
And some other days you can go and feel like a woman, for example.

Heather
00:05:45
Thank you.

Kate
00:05:50
Great.

Heather
00:05:51
Would you like to add.

Kate
00:05:52
Yeah.

Kate
00:05:53
I think that a lot of what Autumn.

Kate
00:05:57
I resonate a lot with what Autumn is saying.

Kate
00:05:59
I think there's an energy that a lot of people experience.

Kate
00:06:05
And I think it's important to recognize that each person's feeling towards that energy in that moment at that time.

Kate
00:06:15
Recognizing where someone is at that particular moment of their life is important.

Kate
00:06:21
I always approach things from the ability of saying like if you.

Kate
00:06:26
If somebody identifies as gender fluid or non binary, gender non conforming.

Kate
00:06:32
I think the most important piece of advice I could even share is to ask that person what that means to you.

Kate
00:06:41
Simply because what gender fluid means to one person is not going to be what it means to the person standing next to them.

Kate
00:06:49
And I think when we're talking about concepts having to do with gender identity, we need to understand that all of the terminology that is existing, all of the umbrella terms, all of that can very much mean something different to every person you ask.

Kate
00:07:07
I identify as trans masculine.

Kate
00:07:09
I use she, her, he, him pronouns that can confuse people a lot of times.

Kate
00:07:15
And I think.

Kate
00:07:16
I mean, I recognize that.

Kate
00:07:18
I recognize how someone can say, okay, you're trans masculine.

Kate
00:07:22
Why don't you just use he him pronouns?

Kate
00:07:25
Because I also am much older and therefore was raised in a different time.

Kate
00:07:35
And.

Kate
00:07:35
And, you know, I'm.

Kate
00:07:36
I'll be honest, I'm 46 years old.

Kate
00:07:38
I've grown up pretty much being called she her my entire life.

Kate
00:07:44
Being called Kate my entire life.

Kate
00:07:46
And I want to kind of circle back something Autumn said earlier off camera that really resonated with me and in that idea, because I'm comfortable with who I am.

Kate
00:07:59
If somebody was to say she or he, somebody was to call me something different, honestly, for me, because I know who I am, it doesn't have as detrimental, let's say, of an effect on me personally as it might have on somebody else who identifies as trans masculine and as he him.

Kate
00:08:26
If you misgender that person, that person, you know, what they are experiencing in that moment is their emotions and their feelings, and they need to be respected.

Kate
00:08:38
For me, if somebody was to, let's say, misgender me, I may not be as upset about it, because hearing she, her, really, it's just a word I grew up with, and it doesn't necessarily feel like it's a part of my identity.

Kate
00:08:54
It's just a word.

Kate
00:08:56
You know, that's why I am someone who's not choosing to change my name or I.

Kate
00:09:04
You know, I've talked to you about it extensively, Heather.

Kate
00:09:06
Like, I have no desire to go through hormone replacement.

Kate
00:09:12
I don't have a desire to have any additional surgeries besides having top surgery, because that is something for me, that's the only thing I need, because I inherently know who I am on the inside.

Kate
00:09:24
But that has taken a long time and lots of years of growth and work and really understanding.

Kate
00:09:32
We talked about labels, right?

Kate
00:09:34
And how important labels can be for some people.

Kate
00:09:36
Some people really need those, especially youth might really need those labels.

Kate
00:09:41
And I think it's very important we honor that.

Kate
00:09:45
But some people don't, and that's okay, too.

Kate
00:09:48
And I think the bottom line in this entire conversation of talking about gender identity is really respecting where each individual person is in their life, in their journey, in their acceptance of themself of what they need.

Kate
00:10:06
And I think that asking people what they need in moments, every single time is critical in you evolving as a human being just as much as they're evolving on their own journey, if that makes sense.

Autumn
00:10:20
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

Autumn
00:10:24
I mean, a lot of it, what it comes down to, is inside of the topic of non binary and gender fluid.

Autumn
00:10:31
It's also extremely important for all of the parents out there to understand that if in terms of understanding your child or whoever it is you're.

Autumn
00:10:44
Or whoever it is you have a relationship with is a lot of it boils down to exactly what Kate said is you need to be able to under.

Autumn
00:10:53
To see how they see it.

Autumn
00:10:56
Because for me, my perception of how gender fluidity with me sometimes feeling like a man or sometimes feeling like a woman, for me that can be feeling masculine or feeling feminine, but for other people, that can quite literally mean feeling like a man and feeling like a woman.

Autumn
00:11:17
And that's a lot of what it, yeah.

Autumn
00:11:20
How it boils down to is where it's really so, so important that the parents understand how their child perceives it.

Autumn
00:11:30
Especially because how I've seen it, especially among my friends and among other people, is whenever someone comes out to their parent, it's so it's.

Autumn
00:11:42
It's a really sensitive topic to deal with, both for the child and the parent, which is why I feel like it requires a lot of.

Autumn
00:11:50
Sorry, A lot of attention to deal with, which is where it's so important in this time to respect what your child's going through.

Autumn
00:12:02
Because I mean, they're literally questioning their identity.

Autumn
00:12:07
So that's where it's.

Autumn
00:12:10
That's where it's just.

Autumn
00:12:12
It's important to know in addition to non binary just being an umbrella term and gender fluidity encompassing basically everything is.

Autumn
00:12:22
It's so important, especially going later on into this podcast is I really do urge the parents and whoever.

Autumn
00:12:31
Whoever else may be listening to take what you.

Autumn
00:12:35
Sorry, to take what you do from this podcast.

Autumn
00:12:39
But it's also really important for on their part to be able to go to their child, to their spouse, to whoever it may be, and be able to talk to them and understand not only our perspectives, but also their perspectives.

Gray
00:13:00
Yeah, as you guys have been talking, I guess it's kind of come to me where it's really important, like obviously to have some sort of understanding of labels and of like just what it means to be LGBTQ and to research that.

Gray
00:13:21
But then in the end it does come down to each individual person and it's.

Gray
00:13:27
You can't fully support anyone without asking them and knowing them and learning about them personally.

Gray
00:13:40
Where I think that is, there's like upsides and downsides to labels almost where it's great to be able to put that label on there, like saying you're non binary, but then having that miscommunication almost of, oh, hi, nice to meet you, I'm non binary.

Gray
00:14:02
But then they have an understanding of a non binary while you have a completely different meaning.

Gray
00:14:10
So it can be, can kind of be misleading for both people because they might not know what to do with that information then.

Gray
00:14:22
And you're not getting respected because the label isn't fully encompassing kind of who you are as a person.

Gray
00:14:32
And I think a lot of people, at least in my experience, always try to find a label that fits them and they're just, there's not always gonna be a label.

Gray
00:14:45
And I think that's a hard thing to accept sometimes.

Gray
00:14:51
Like, I, I've been trying to find labels for myself for years and I keep, I keep changing them because just none of them really fit.

Gray
00:15:01
And getting to a point where you can kind of understand that is helpful and how you autumn, you just, you say, I like guys.

Gray
00:15:11
And that's a great way to go around it because it's, it's, it's hard when, especially like if you use multiple pronouns or you use one and it's kind of like, how am I supposed to say sexuality if there's nothing that really fits?

Gray
00:15:30
So it's, it's tough and there can be a lot of miscommunication on that.

Gray
00:15:40
Yeah, yeah.

Autumn
00:15:42
And that's something I've realized, especially in my own journey, is even now, it's like, as I've said many times now, is I don't identify with anything.

Autumn
00:15:55
And that's where at the same time, for people who aren't, well, who don't have a lot of knowledge inside of the realm of LGBTQ is they're like, so what are you then?

Autumn
00:16:07
And that's where for me, just, just as you were saying, gray is.

Autumn
00:16:11
It's really hard to find the correct term to say because right now I, like, literally a few days ago I was thinking like, am I gender non conforming?

Autumn
00:16:21
Am I non binary?

Autumn
00:16:22
Like, what am I?

Autumn
00:16:23
Because even some of my friends are like, oh my God, you're trans.

Autumn
00:16:27
And I'm like, okay.

Autumn
00:16:30
And I don't, I don't really know how to deal with that.

Autumn
00:16:33
Where that, that's also making me think with a lot of the labeling culture that that goes on is, yes, it is very beneficial for people, especially for those who don't know who they are and those who are trying to understand.

Autumn
00:16:48
But I feel like it is also very harmful whenever someone's trying to understand themselves.

Autumn
00:16:55
And some people, like for bisexual people, for example, I remember a while ago, I don't Know if it's still happening now, but I remember there was this huge fight where people were saying bisexual, bisexuality and pansexuality were the same thing, but, oh, no, they're different.

Autumn
00:17:15
And then there is this huge argument, argument of.

Autumn
00:17:19
Of bisexual people who have a preference for men over women or vice versa, and they're like, oh, am I straight now?

Autumn
00:17:28
Am I pan now?

Autumn
00:17:29
And it's.

Autumn
00:17:30
It is very beneficial.

Autumn
00:17:32
Like, terms are very beneficial, but at the same time, I do just as I said, it is hard to navigate around them, especially with big terms like, I know gay, for example.

Autumn
00:17:45
Just overall term used to describe basically anyone who is lgbtq.

Autumn
00:17:50
But now it's.

Autumn
00:17:52
There was MLM and WLW and all of that.

Autumn
00:17:57
Is someone getting into that?

Autumn
00:18:00
It.

Autumn
00:18:01
It really does.

Autumn
00:18:03
It forces them to almost identify a imposter syndrome type thing, where I do feel like they can feel like, oh, I guess I'm gay, but I still like women, or they're trans and they're like, yeah, I'm a trans woman, but I still feel mascul.

Autumn
00:18:23
And it's a very hard type of thing to deal with.

Autumn
00:18:27
Where the lgbtq, the community is very accepting and it's embracing who you are on an individual perspective, but at the same time, inside of that, there are identities and stuff that some people feel obligated to fulfill, which is very sort of.

Autumn
00:18:49
It's.

Autumn
00:18:50
It's just difficult to navigate.

Autumn
00:18:51
And I.

Autumn
00:18:52
I would love to hear what you guys think of that as well.

Kate
00:18:58
One of the things that struck me that both of you were talking about, and I think being the older person on the panel, things hit me a little differently than they might sit with the both of you.

Kate
00:19:16
And I think, too, when you had started talking about parent perspective, I really want to address that, because as someone who is a parent, someone who has had to come out to my mom in different stages of my life, I think that there's a lot here for parents to understand that especially sexual orientation and gender identity can be ever evolving.

Kate
00:19:43
And I think if we can try as human beings to just engage and work with people, whether they're in our own family systems, their friends, their neighbors, community members, and the idea that no matter who you're speaking with, if they are identifying a certain way.

Kate
00:20:07
Right.

Kate
00:20:07
We are.

Kate
00:20:08
To whether it's labeled or not, it is just about trying to respect with intention where someone is at in their journey.

Kate
00:20:22
Parents.

Kate
00:20:23
I know from my own work as working with many parents who have children who identify as lgbtq, trying just to get them to understand that I know you want answers, right?

Kate
00:20:37
If your child comes to you and says, this is how I'm identifying, there are two things that take place.

Kate
00:20:44
Your head starts reeling as a parent.

Kate
00:20:46
And what does this mean?

Kate
00:20:47
My understanding of trans means this.

Kate
00:20:49
My understanding.

Kate
00:20:51
And Gray you pointed out.

Kate
00:20:52
Right.

Kate
00:20:52
My understanding versus your understanding of the exact same terminology can be two completely different things.

Kate
00:20:58
Which is why I often encourage parents one thing to ask, what does that mean to you?

Kate
00:21:05
So that I understand fully what that means.

Kate
00:21:09
But also taking a step back and knowing that your child may not exactly have the full understanding for themselves at that moment, and that the beauty in some of these labels is trying to navigate a little bit about what does this feel like, what does this mean to me?

Kate
00:21:34
And so your child may not have all the answers, and that is okay.

Kate
00:21:39
And I know for the three of us, we have the answers for ourselves, but we're not speaking on behalf of all the people in our community.

Kate
00:21:48
Because even within our community, and this is the part that can be very hard for people to understand, even within the own LGBTQ community, there is a lot of butting heads because of the way someone might identify saying, you are not right.

Kate
00:22:08
Someone wants to pigeonhole you within your own community and tell you that a.

Kate
00:22:13
Oh, right, Autumn, you said somebody will look at you and say right away you're trans.

Kate
00:22:17
Or someone might say, you're not trans enough.

Kate
00:22:21
Or someone might say, oh, that sounds like it's gender non conforming to me.

Kate
00:22:25
Well, guess what?

Kate
00:22:26
The only person it actually matters to is a person you're speaking with.

Kate
00:22:30
But within our own community, those struggles can even happen.

Kate
00:22:33
And I think it's important for people who are not a part of our community to understand that as well.

Kate
00:22:39
We fight, even within our own community of trying to understand each other.

Kate
00:22:43
As someone who's older, when we constantly are adding all these new labels, I'm even like, wow, okay, this is awesome.

Kate
00:22:51
This is brave.

Kate
00:22:53
This is incredibly amazing that all these young people are coming up with new terms to try and relate to and understand themselves.

Kate
00:23:03
But I, too, can be like, who?

Kate
00:23:05
That's another one I got to try and understand, because when I grew up, there was like, only three.

Kate
00:23:09
You were either lesbian, gay, or bisexual.

Kate
00:23:11
Trans didn't even exist.

Kate
00:23:14
It did, but it didn't exist in the education and the understanding of what does that mean?

Kate
00:23:20
And I think the beauty of for all of us, no matter where you are in your journey, no matter where you are in terms of your identification, if you can take a second to try and help someone with good Intention.

Kate
00:23:34
Who is asking you, what does that mean to you?

Kate
00:23:38
Helping them to understand a little bit about what it means to you, to identify that way is where we're going to start to build that education piece.

Kate
00:23:46
Because really, personal experience, knowing people having these intimate conversations, that's how we educate.

Kate
00:23:54
Right.

Kate
00:23:54
That's how we learn to help people know that you don't have to put somebody in a box just because you hear this term.

Kate
00:24:01
That makes sense.

Gray
00:24:05
Yeah.

Gray
00:24:07
I mean, I feel like a big part of.

Gray
00:24:14
I think what you don't realize when you come out is how much explaining you're gonna have to do for the.

Kate
00:24:22
Rest of your life.

Gray
00:24:24
It is not a hey, I'm, whatever, I'm, I like women, or hey, I want to use some other pronouns.

Gray
00:24:31
It is.

Gray
00:24:32
You will constantly be questioned.

Gray
00:24:34
And I think it's a good and bad thing.

Gray
00:24:39
It can be.

Gray
00:24:40
It kind of depends.

Gray
00:24:43
But, like, the main thing I feel like I can say to someone who has just been come out to.

Gray
00:24:50
Is to respect.

Gray
00:24:51
Like you were saying, Kate, to respect the person who is coming out.

Gray
00:24:56
Because if they don't feel comfortable, then they can't.

Gray
00:25:00
Like, if they don't have their own space to try and understand what's going on with themselves, they can't even begin to explain it to someone else.

Gray
00:25:10
And if you are someone who really wants to support your kid, your spouse, your friend, your cousin, whoever it is, you have to be willing to listen.

Gray
00:25:22
And just if they aren't ready to answer questions, then that's just being there for them.

Gray
00:25:30
And it's kind of like, I don't understand yet.

Gray
00:25:33
And that's okay because I know you aren't ready.

Gray
00:25:37
Like, you don't understand yet either.

Gray
00:25:39
And I'm just willing to be here for you in the sense that we're both not sure what's going on, but I support you in that.

Gray
00:25:49
And you're just ready to listen.

Gray
00:25:52
And if they don't want questions, then you're just ready to listen.

Gray
00:25:55
That you're just there and okay with the fact that you might not understand for.

Gray
00:26:01
For a while and that you stay respectful in the way where if you have questions, you can.

Gray
00:26:09
You can ask, like, hey, are you ready?

Gray
00:26:11
If not, that's fine.

Gray
00:26:13
I'll write them down and I can ask you when you're ready or just listening, because they might just need someone to try and figure it out because it can be confusing, especially when in our own community, people try to force things on you.

Gray
00:26:31
The community is super supporting until they're not.

Gray
00:26:37
It can be really great to be a part of the LGBTQ community.

Gray
00:26:42
And then there are times where it feels like everyone's fighting over what something might mean, when, as we've been saying, it means a hundred different things and.

Kate
00:26:56
You can feel like an outsider in your own community.

Kate
00:26:59
Gray, I agree with you.

Gray
00:27:01
Yeah, exactly.

Gray
00:27:03
It's especially with.

Gray
00:27:06
And I know, Autumn, you brought up bisexuality.

Gray
00:27:08
Like, the amount of time I was.

Gray
00:27:11
I don't know if I've ever said this to anyone, but I was scared to be bisexual.

Gray
00:27:16
Like, I.

Gray
00:27:17
I didn't want to be bisexual because there's so much, like, dispute over every.

Gray
00:27:24
Like, gay people hate bisexuals and straight people hate bisexuals because, oh, why can't you just choose one?

Gray
00:27:32
And I didn't want to have to deal with that, where everyone is mad, like your own community, and then people outside of your community can't just let you be yourself.

Gray
00:27:45
And that was something that I think is still going on, where it's like, if you're straight, if you're a bisexual woman, oh, just be straight.

Gray
00:27:55
Or if you're a bisexual man, it's like, just be gay.

Gray
00:27:58
And there's a lot of that going on.

Gray
00:28:02
That can be really tough for people.

Autumn
00:28:05
Yeah.

Autumn
00:28:06
I feel like inside of that also, with the sort of, if you're a bi woman, just be straight is also a lot of what I've seen online especially is when I used to identify as a gay man, for example, is so from what I've heard from other people is I have the stereotypical gay boy ver voice, where it's very high pitched and feminine.

Autumn
00:28:30
And that's the sort of stereotype for gay people.

Autumn
00:28:35
Gay men is where it's like this petite feminine version is where I've also heard from a lot of other people is those gay men who are not, like, small and build, they have a masculine voice, they have whatever is.

Autumn
00:28:55
They aren't seen as gay and they're seen as, oh, you aren't gay, you're straight.

Autumn
00:29:02
Or, oh, are you sure you're gay?

Autumn
00:29:04
Because they don't have, like, this stereotypical presence of this, like, of this gay person with a really high feminine voice.

Autumn
00:29:17
And that's also where it's like, if you go into the LGBTQ community, you can find so many different stereotypes, not only inside of appearance, but also in, like, personality, for example, where gay, like, gay men are supposed to be social butterflies who are super feminine and blah, blah, blah, blah, and they love wearing dresses and whatever.

Autumn
00:29:43
But there are some gay people who are really comfortable with who they are.

Autumn
00:29:48
They Just like men, which is.

Autumn
00:29:50
It's difficult to go around that, especially since there are so many different stereotypes associated with each and every single term.

Autumn
00:30:00
Like, non.

Autumn
00:30:01
Binary can come off as you have to appear androgynous, for example, or gen.

Autumn
00:30:07
Or like, being a trans woman means you have to have breast implants or you have to have your penis cut off, but being a trans male means you have to have top surgery.

Autumn
00:30:20
And that's where it's really difficult to navigate.

Autumn
00:30:24
Where it's.

Autumn
00:31:20
There are certain expectations, even when trying to find yourself, which is where I feel like imposter syndrome goes into a lot, is where.

Autumn
00:31:29
When I identified as a trans woman, I felt like I wasn't supposed to have my penis, for example.

Autumn
00:31:36
Where it's just.

Autumn
00:31:38
It's this battle where, just as you guys were saying, you feel like an outsider in your own community, where I'm just.

Autumn
00:31:48
I'm just trying to fit in.

Autumn
00:31:49
But how am I supposed to fit in when the people who are supposed to be accepting me are the people who are telling me what to do?

Kate
00:32:00
Yeah.

Kate
00:32:01
And I think the important thing for young people to take away from this is that.

Kate
00:32:06
And parents, of course, the community, the LGBTQ community, and of course, my vast years of being a part of it.

Kate
00:32:16
It's such an extraordinary.

Kate
00:32:18
It's a second home.

Kate
00:32:19
It's a family for many of us that we did not have when we were coming out.

Kate
00:32:25
And so I think one of the critical pieces here to understand is that, yes, no matter who you are in the world, there are always going to be pockets.

Kate
00:32:35
People who may not understand you, people who want to force you to take on certain identities or roles within those labels or constructs.

Kate
00:32:46
But truly, our community is an extraordinary work of art, quite honestly.

Kate
00:32:57
You know, whether we're all coming together under all of these different identities and really trying to understand each other, I just want to.

Kate
00:33:07
I kind of just feel like the biggest takeaway for me when we talk about these things is.

Kate
00:33:14
Is just that same piece of going down to the bottom line and understanding that everybody feels different, everybody understands their identity differently, but that identity in and of itself can be evolving.

Kate
00:33:32
You know, I love that Gray pointed out the fact that coming out, it's a lifelong journey.

Kate
00:33:38
It really is.

Kate
00:33:40
You can come out when you're young, you can come out again, you can come out again, and every time you come out, it's okay.

Kate
00:33:48
But there's always going to be somebody you're coming out to, simply because people don't always understand or what we think is just stuff people are Talking about all the time.

Kate
00:34:04
There are pockets of the world.

Kate
00:34:05
People have absolutely no idea what we're talking about.

Kate
00:34:08
And so that's the beauty of this.

Kate
00:34:09
Right.

Kate
00:34:10
Is that if we can begin to help each other understand that our own process of coming to terms with who we are, how we identify as okay in that moment, wherever you are in that moment is okay, then hopefully we will help create just that supportive, healthy environment for that person to continue to develop and grow.

Kate
00:34:32
Whether that's at 7 years old, 16, 20s, you're in your 60s, I don't care.

Kate
00:34:39
People are human beings, and we're always evolving.

Kate
00:34:43
That's the beauty of being anybody.

Kate
00:34:47
Like, you have the ability to evolve as a human being.

Kate
00:34:50
Take it.

Kate
00:34:51
Right.

Gray
00:34:53
Yeah, Yeah.

Gray
00:34:56
I.

Gray
00:34:56
I want to add to the fact that it, as much as, like, there is.

Gray
00:35:02
There's confusion in any community, and there's always going to be that.

Gray
00:35:05
But I completely agree that the LGBTQ community is a beautiful, beautiful thing, and I honored to be a part of it.

Gray
00:35:17
Um, like, might sound funny, but I wake up and I'm very glad that I'm gay or whatever I am.

Gray
00:35:24
I don't.

Gray
00:35:24
I still don't know, but I'm really happy that I get to be like that.

Gray
00:35:29
I can be me.

Gray
00:35:30
And.

Gray
00:35:32
And as much like, we look out in the world and there's so much going on, whether it is hate crimes or there's problems where we might not have the right to get married, those sort of things, but seeing and how terrifying that is, but then seeing that there is a community, there is a community who is willing to fight for that, and that there we are never alone in this.

Gray
00:36:05
You know, like, no matter how alone you might feel in your coming out process, or if someone just can't understand, there's always a group of people who's going to understand, and you might not find them yet, but there is that comfort in knowing that there is someone out there that knows exactly what you're going through.

Gray
00:36:26
And there's so many people who are willing to fight for our rights.

Gray
00:36:32
If you're not able to, or if you're not out yet, or if you don't even understand, you just know that there are people who are doing that and who just want you to be safe in being yourself.

Autumn
00:36:49
Yeah.

Autumn
00:36:49
I do feel like that's just a brilliant thing of the community is.

Autumn
00:36:55
Yeah.

Autumn
00:36:55
Just as you said, even, like, if you identify as trans, if you identify as ace aro, asexual and aromantic, if you identify as gay, if you identify as trans, straight, even if you're not in the community, there are.

Autumn
00:37:12
No matter where you are, even if everyone around you doesn't even know what the term means, there is someone out there who knows who.

Autumn
00:37:22
They might not even know who you are, but they will accept you, and they want you to be yourself.

Autumn
00:37:28
Which is, for any of the listeners out there is.

Autumn
00:37:32
I feel it.

Autumn
00:37:34
It is really important to know that if you ever feel alone in your identity, feeling like that.

Autumn
00:37:42
No one.

Autumn
00:37:43
Even if your parents are, like, struggling to understand who you are or your work colleagues or your.

Autumn
00:37:51
Or whoever it may be, it's.

Autumn
00:37:54
It's just.

Autumn
00:37:55
It's so important to know that you will.

Autumn
00:37:58
No matter where you are in life, you will find someone to be able to support you and be able to make you feel.

Autumn
00:38:06
Or to not make you feel comfortable, but to let you feel comfortable in your environment.

Kate
00:38:14
Yeah.

Heather
00:38:25
I think we need a good pause after that.

Heather
00:38:27
That was.

Heather
00:38:30
It's so true.

Heather
00:38:31
And I think as I've been sitting here listening to you, one thing that's come up for me as the parent, this is such an important conversation, and it's also the guidance from.

Heather
00:38:55
I mean, you basically just laid out a playbook for parents.

Heather
00:38:59
Thank you very much.

Heather
00:39:00
Because these are really.

Heather
00:39:03
I mean, you've made it so much easier.

Heather
00:39:06
What does a parent say when their child comes out to them in any capacity?

Gray
00:39:11
Right.

Heather
00:39:11
Whether it's gender or sexuality?

Heather
00:39:14
What can I do to support you?

Heather
00:39:16
Right?

Heather
00:39:17
It's that whole letting go of, like, the permission to let go of the control, which is needing to understand, right?

Heather
00:39:24
We don't need to understand.

Heather
00:39:26
All we need to do is, what.

Heather
00:39:28
What do you need to hold you?

Autumn
00:39:30
Right?

Heather
00:39:30
Like, what do you need?

Heather
00:39:31
How can I support you?

Heather
00:39:35
I respect that this is a process.

Heather
00:39:38
And I think, you know, to that whole point that all three of you made, that this is a lifelong process.

Heather
00:39:46
Right?

Heather
00:39:46
This is a.

Heather
00:39:47
And just as.

Heather
00:39:48
And I love to the other point, too, that it is ever evolving, because that is such a sticking point that I think people can really freak out about.

Heather
00:39:56
Like, but.

Heather
00:39:57
But they came out as gay, and.

Heather
00:39:59
And now they're saying that they're bi, and now it's not real.

Heather
00:40:03
And what do I tell Grandma?

Heather
00:40:04
And.

Heather
00:40:04
Oh, my gosh.

Heather
00:40:05
Right?

Heather
00:40:05
Like, you know, like, there are all these things that, like, there's this stuff, though, right?

Heather
00:40:10
I mean, this is, like.

Heather
00:40:11
It's funny because.

Heather
00:40:12
And we laugh, but it's so true and real.

Heather
00:40:15
And being able to be like, every human being evolves.

Heather
00:40:20
It's not just human beings who identify and the LGBTQ community all of us do, right?

Heather
00:40:29
I mean, I am a straight, cisgendered woman, and I have evolved a lot in a million other ways, right?

Heather
00:40:39
So people, human beings evolve.

Heather
00:40:44
So I think that was such a great point that you all made in very different ways of saying, hey, let's not freak out about this, because this is part of the process.

Heather
00:40:56
And so just being able to kind of take that breath and be calm and be curious, right?

Heather
00:41:03
Like always approaching with curiosity and just saying, good intention.

Heather
00:41:10
I'm here, I'm here, right?

Heather
00:41:13
Good intention, curiosity.

Heather
00:41:16
And I think if you kind of repeat that in your head, right, that helps you let go of all of the freak out stuff.

Kate
00:41:25
Heather, can I also add that I think it's important as members of the LGBTQ community.

Kate
00:41:32
And you know, I've said this to you many times.

Kate
00:41:35
I say this to every youth I've ever worked with as well.

Kate
00:41:39
I think it's also, it's a two way street, right?

Kate
00:41:42
Because we're here as members of the community asking to be heard, to be listened to, to be respected, to have good intention when asking us questions.

Kate
00:41:53
But I also think that there is an error to the other side of this, where it is that, especially when, when we are talking about young people and their relationship with, with parents or caregivers, to also be mindful as a young person who identifies as part of the community, wherever that is, to know that sometimes, right, our parents, our caregivers, are trying to come from a good place, are trying to be understanding, but it may not always come off that way.

Kate
00:42:29
So there's, I like to say, give, give grace, right?

Kate
00:42:34
Give, give time, give some understanding that your family members are also evolving.

Kate
00:42:42
And you cannot just expect an instant change to happen, even in the goodest hearts of people.

Kate
00:42:50
We need time to process.

Kate
00:42:53
We've spent our lives as members of the community trying to figure out who we are.

Kate
00:42:58
Does this feel right?

Kate
00:42:59
Does that feel right?

Kate
00:43:00
Before we even come out to ourselves, let alone to anybody else, that we need to give some time for process to the people who are a part of our lives.

Kate
00:43:11
And to know that oftentimes when you are met with hate, to understand, really the bottom line is it's fear.

Kate
00:43:21
And that fear component can drive the way somebody talks to you, treats you, engages with you.

Kate
00:43:28
And I just want our young people, especially, but parents as well, caregivers, to be mindful of that, especially as you get older, too.

Kate
00:43:36
It's just something I've learned as I've grown and evolved, that when we're young, our identities are so crucial and we want to just be.

Kate
00:43:50
We want everyone to just accept us right then and there.

Kate
00:43:54
But it can take time.

Kate
00:43:56
It doesn't always mean that relationships have to be severed immediately.

Kate
00:44:01
Sometimes that room for healing and growth can produce wonderful things on the other side.

Kate
00:44:09
And I speak that from own personal experiences.

Kate
00:44:12
So that's just something I just want to let people know, too, to be mindful of the other side of things as well.

Kate
00:44:19
We're.

Kate
00:44:20
We're people engaging with people.

Kate
00:44:22
We just need to all be a little bit more gentle with each other.

Autumn
00:44:27
Yeah, that's.

Autumn
00:44:28
That's one of the things that I wanted to go back to what you said, Kate, is when you were talking about how the parents also are just trying to understand you.

Autumn
00:44:38
One of the things that I wanted to.

Autumn
00:44:40
Said that I wanted to say to all the parents listening is it's okay if you're confused or if, like, if.

Autumn
00:44:48
If you're upset or whatever, you may feel those emotions are valid, and it's okay for you to feel these things for both you and the person who's coming out to you.

Autumn
00:44:58
It's such a major change.

Autumn
00:45:01
Like your entire life is just a vault, like completely.

Autumn
00:45:06
Just changing completely.

Autumn
00:45:08
Which is where I feel like it's really important to know that what truly matters to your kid, whoever it may be, is to let them know that you're just trying to understand them and be able to understand them as your child, as another human being, basically.

Autumn
00:45:34
And, yeah, just being able to.

Autumn
00:45:38
To realize that you are valid.

Autumn
00:45:40
And whatever emotions you may feel, it's okay to feel upset that your child's coming out.

Autumn
00:45:46
Like the world that you guys all grew up in is.

Autumn
00:45:51
I like being a child myself and having to come out to my mom is.

Autumn
00:45:55
I understand from all the stuff that happened back in the 20th century and everything that everyone had to grow up through is.

Autumn
00:46:04
I.

Autumn
00:46:05
It's.

Autumn
00:46:06
It's understandable why someone may be upset that their child came out to them or why someone may be confused by what it means or whatever it may be.

Autumn
00:46:15
And I.

Autumn
00:46:15
I would love to hear what you think, Kate, especially because I know you are the older.

Autumn
00:46:21
The older member.

Kate
00:46:27
Obviously, I will not speak on behalf of my entire community, but yes, my own personal experience.

Kate
00:46:32
Experiences are that really, you know, even for my mom.

Kate
00:46:37
My mom.

Kate
00:46:38
My mom has always said that she's known that I should have been born a boy since I was about age 2.

Kate
00:46:46
But coming out to her in college, mind you, I didn't come out until college because I grew up in an environment that unfortunately, there was another person in the household that didn't make it very comfortable for me.

Kate
00:47:02
So regardless of that, I took a little longer to come out to my family.

Kate
00:47:09
And when I told my mom and I came out as lesbian, because that was, again, the only identity I really had to choose from, I figured I must have been born a female.

Kate
00:47:20
So therefore I have to identify as lesbian because I like women, Right?

Kate
00:47:24
So.

Kate
00:47:26
And then that was very hard for my mom.

Kate
00:47:30
Again, even though she's known her entire life that I probably was going to be gay, it still was hard for her to process.

Kate
00:47:40
Here we are much further from that.

Kate
00:47:42
And now I'm coming back out to my mom as trans masculine.

Kate
00:47:47
And of course, with the understanding of she knew that I should have been born a boy.

Kate
00:47:51
I know I should have been born a boy.

Kate
00:47:53
But it's still a lot to comprehend and grasp.

Kate
00:47:56
And I think there's a few things.

Kate
00:47:58
I think we'd be surprised at the amount of older adults in the world who are extremely accepting, and it doesn't faze them.

Kate
00:48:08
Grandparents, right?

Kate
00:48:09
Who we think, oh, God, please don't tell your nana.

Kate
00:48:12
Don't tell your grandma, grandpa, any.

Kate
00:48:14
And we are surprised at actually how they react.

Kate
00:48:17
And they can be the most supportive because of everything they've seen.

Kate
00:48:22
They've seen so much hate and change, and they want their grandkids to feel like they're in safe spaces.

Kate
00:48:29
I like to call them brave spaces.

Kate
00:48:31
It's one of the points I wanted to make that is, as adults, especially, whether you're a caregiver, a parent, creating a brave space for any child to feel like they can evolve and build confidence in.

Kate
00:48:46
That is crucial, Right?

Kate
00:48:47
That's the thing that anybody who's on this podcast can take away.

Kate
00:48:52
Create a space in which our young people feel brave enough to come to you with, however they are identifying and honor that, and also make sure that they know that they can continue to keep evolving in that space you've created.

Kate
00:49:11
Because helping build self confidence is the key part of helping reduce fear for that young person and get them to a place of being able to own who they are and not feel guilt or shame about who they are.

Kate
00:49:29
Because there's nothing negative to feel.

Kate
00:49:32
There should not be.

Kate
00:49:34
So I think when we're talking about adults now, Autumn, I think we've obviously educated so much that parents who are becoming parents now have so much more education and understanding.

Kate
00:49:50
And what they're seeing when they're seeing their little girl play with certain toys or their little boy dress up a certain way, it's not about instantly going where in my generation, way back in the day, right, it would have been like, oh my God, my kid is gay.

Kate
00:50:05
It's like instant, right?

Kate
00:50:06
Oh, she's playing with the boys toy.

Kate
00:50:07
So oh my God, or he's wearing a dress.

Kate
00:50:10
But really what it means today is that those adults, those caregivers, are just opening themselves up to exploration.

Kate
00:50:19
We are giving children the freedom to explore and understand the world around them in the way that they need to.

Kate
00:50:27
And recognizing just because your little boy puts on a dress or your little girl wants to play with things that are boy identified still because of in this gender culture that we're in, does not mean that you need to go miles an hour in a certain direction thinking that they're going to be a certain way or not.

Kate
00:50:51
It's just about letting them be who they are again in that moment.

Kate
00:50:57
And that by exploring, you may have a boy who's more sensitive in nature and understands women in a whole different way than if you would have cut him off at such a young age and said, you can't be that way.

Kate
00:51:12
Or the same thing for a woman who's a young girl who's playing with toys and science and playing out in the dirt and the mud.

Kate
00:51:20
And you think to yourself as a parent, oh God, not my little girl, right?

Kate
00:51:25
But what if that little girl then grows up to be fierce and strong and independent?

Kate
00:51:30
The beauty is that we are not pigeonholing kids into these identities.

Kate
00:51:36
That's the beauty of the parents now, I think is it's expanding.

Kate
00:51:41
And knowing that just because your kid may act, look or identify a certain way at such a young age does not mean that you have to put them in this box of just expecting horrible things for their life.

Kate
00:51:55
They could have very beautiful lives if you just give them the permission to be who they are, let them experiment, let them find the freedom of who they are in those moments instead of deterring them.

Kate
00:52:11
I think, I hope Autumn that answered a little bit about how I feel from where I was as a kid to what I'm seeing.

Kate
00:52:18
Even I have a five year old daughter.

Kate
00:52:20
I don't know how she's going to identify 10 years from now, 5 years from now, 30 years from now.

Kate
00:52:28
But I want to at least be able to create that brave space for her to allow herself to find whoever it is that she identifies as.

Kate
00:52:39
And I'm hoping you know, because even as someone who's a part of the community, I question myself.

Kate
00:52:45
Am I doing the right thing?

Kate
00:52:47
Am I saying the right terminology?

Kate
00:52:50
Am I should I not be putting pronouns on my kiddo at this age.

Kate
00:52:54
Should she be allowed to choose for herself?

Kate
00:52:56
And I think too, when we look at those things again, if she says, like, I try and use language with my 5 year old, as someone who identifies as transmasculine, I try and tell her that mama was born a girl but feels like a boy on the inside.

Kate
00:53:14
She's five.

Kate
00:53:16
That's really all she kind of needs to understand right now, and that she knows mom is going to have surgery, but she understands it from the perspective of mom is having surgery because she wants her outside body to match the way she feels on the inside.

Kate
00:53:34
And that again, creating conversation with your child, that's simple enough that if she wants to ask questions, she can, but if she doesn't, we don't have to go any further than that until she's ready.

Kate
00:53:47
And I think if we can start doing that more just as a community in general, you know, I think that we open a lot of doors up to a lot of people.

Kate
00:53:59
I hope that again, Autumn, I hope that answered your question.

Autumn
00:54:04
Yeah, thank you.

Kate
00:54:05
Thank you for asking.

Kate
00:54:06
I appreciate that.

Autumn
00:54:09
I think something else that I noticed while talking, while you were talking is I believe one of the things that I recognized is I really resonated with what you said about the pigeonholing kids is I've noticed especially well, I think back with some of my siblings, with my mom is I hear from.

Autumn
00:54:35
So I'm the youngest in my family.

Autumn
00:54:36
I've heard from my eldest sister Elise, that my mom used to be a major helicopter parent.

Autumn
00:54:44
Like, she used to say that we couldn't watch Harry Potter.

Kate
00:54:48
How you feeling over there, Mom?

Autumn
00:54:50
And, and for me, it's like, I'm like, oh, my God.

Autumn
00:54:56
Because I did not grow up like that because I was, I.

Autumn
00:55:00
I was allowed to do whatever I like and look at how I turned out.

Autumn
00:55:04
Like, oh, my God.

Autumn
00:55:06
And it's, it's.

Autumn
00:55:08
It's so weird because I realized that it's such an amazing thing to let your child be able to explore who they are themselves.

Autumn
00:55:19
Because I feel like if I was under constant, like, helicopter parenting, I would never have found my interest in physics, for example, because I love science and physics so much, and it's amazing.

Autumn
00:55:35
And I've also been researching, like, history, and there's this really medieval topic called alchemy that I'm really interested in that could turn what was it led into gold, I believe, which was.

Autumn
00:55:51
Oh, all that stuff.

Autumn
00:55:52
That's a whole different conversation.

Autumn
00:55:54
But the point is, if I, if my Parents had continued to be helicopter.

Autumn
00:56:01
Helicopter parenting with me, I feel like I never would have gotten to the point where I am right now, especially with my identity and who I am and being able to fully accept who I am with all of that.

Kate
00:56:16
Hey, mom.

Heather
00:56:22
I'm right there with you.

Heather
00:56:23
It's okay.

Kate
00:56:25
Yeah, really, I, you know, honestly, part.

Heather
00:56:29
Of the whole evolution, right?

Heather
00:56:34
Yeah, we.

Heather
00:56:36
We evolved.

Gray
00:56:39
Yeah.

Heather
00:56:41
Love that.

Gray
00:56:41
That's awesome.

Kate
00:56:42
We continue to evolve every day.

Gray
00:56:45
That's right.

Heather
00:56:46
Oh, my goodness.

Heather
00:56:47
And let me tell you, process.

Kate
00:56:48
Even older people, like, even older people like me are grateful to the.

Kate
00:56:54
To the parents who are younger, who are raising young people right now.

Kate
00:56:57
I am so grateful for what you do and what you bring and your openness and your support and your affirmation to your children.

Kate
00:57:05
So grateful.

Kate
00:57:06
So thank you for me.

Kate
00:57:08
To both of you as moms.

Kate
00:57:11
Thank you.

Heather
00:57:13
You know that you were a huge part of my evolution.

Heather
00:57:16
So thank you.

Heather
00:57:17
Thank you.

Heather
00:57:18
A lot of thank yous going on.

Gray
00:57:21
I feel like.

Gray
00:57:23
I feel like that's all we can really ask, you know, like, as people coming out, like, just that you're willing to evolve as a person for someone else.

Gray
00:57:37
That willingness to, like that openness to change.

Gray
00:57:41
Because I think a big part of things is the.

Gray
00:57:47
That causes some problems is the.

Gray
00:57:50
That people aren't willing to have change occur.

Gray
00:57:53
And that's scary sometimes.

Gray
00:57:55
And I mean, I completely agree.

Gray
00:57:56
Change can be really scary.

Gray
00:57:59
But once you're willing to be a part of someone else's change, that you're willing to change for someone else, for.

Gray
00:58:09
For, like, to grow with them is when beautiful things can kind of happen.

Gray
00:58:17
I feel like, I don't know, just speaking out of our kind of journey as a family.

Gray
00:58:23
If everything that happened with my brother didn't happen, our family wouldn't be like it is today.

Gray
00:58:33
And I don't know, like, it would have taken me longer to figure out who I am.

Gray
00:58:39
And the environment, I don't know, like, if it would have changed where I felt as comfortable to come out.

Gray
00:58:51
So.

Gray
00:58:51
And that's such a big part of it all.

Gray
00:58:54
Kind of just the environment that happened like, that you create, that's kind of up to you.

Gray
00:59:00
And going back to what you were saying, Kate, like, how you raise someone and how you like the environment you raise them in is kind of how they're going to grow up.

Gray
00:59:17
Like, that's.

Gray
00:59:17
That's what they're going to know for a while until they reach kindergarten, preschool, and they start kind of being entered into a different world.

Gray
00:59:26
It's up to you Kind of how, like what they see and what they know.

Gray
00:59:31
And if you can start educating people from that age, it's so interesting to me to see kids who were raised in that kind of way where they knew right off the bat what like it is to you might look one way, but you feel a different way on the inside.

Gray
00:59:50
Like, being told that from like age 5 is great because then they have that education, you know, and education is such a big part of being able to accept and to be there for people or to be there for yourself.

Gray
01:00:08
Like, if you are taught at a young age, like just some sort of understanding in that it's okay to be a little bit more feminine or be more masculine and just you can feel what you're feeling, then, like, there is so much that, like, you can explore with that education.

Gray
01:00:31
And I think that's such a cool thing.

Gray
01:00:36
Like, that's why I started exploring kind of my sexuality, is because I started to get an education on it.

Gray
01:00:43
And that's kind of like where it all begins, I feel like.

Autumn
01:00:47
Yeah, that's.

Autumn
01:00:48
That's another thing I noticed as well is in inside of education and stuff, with pronouns especially just bursting in popularity over the last however many years, is I always see videos and tiktoks of parents getting mad at elementary school teachers for teaching their kids how to use pronouns because pronouns are a basic part of English grammar.

Autumn
01:01:15
But there are so many people, so many, so many just people who are against lgbtq who are like, oh, why are you teaching my.

Autumn
01:01:24
My daughter pronouns?

Autumn
01:01:26
Like, that's not okay.

Autumn
01:01:28
When.

Kate
01:01:30
Like, it's.

Autumn
01:01:31
It's just.

Autumn
01:01:31
That's where it feels like it's just a lack of education, where it's like, what?

Autumn
01:01:36
Like, it doesn't make sense.

Kate
01:01:39
It's also fear, you know, I think it's fear based.

Heather
01:01:43
That's such a fear thing.

Heather
01:01:44
Yes.

Kate
01:01:47
Especially like gray when you're talking about teaching little kids.

Kate
01:01:50
I think really a lot of adults instantly go to a place of.

Kate
01:01:55
Well, if you start talking to my, my children about gender identity and sexual orientation, oh my God, that means they're going to be that way.

Kate
01:02:02
But let's be honest.

Kate
01:02:04
Kids inherently know who they are, usually by age, like five or six, like, they already kind of know and all you're doing is opening up the door to understanding people around them.

Kate
01:02:17
There are some people, yes.

Kate
01:02:19
Who may take longer in time to learn and evolve about who they are.

Kate
01:02:23
But really, bottom line is, if you ask almost everybody in the population, you know, by age 6 or 7, did you know who you were who you were attracted to.

Kate
01:02:35
Bottom line is they pretty much did.

Kate
01:02:37
And nothing you can do would alter that.

Kate
01:02:38
I was raised in a heteronormative environment around nothing but people telling me that I had to be straight all day long.

Kate
01:02:47
But I didn't turn out straight.

Kate
01:02:49
And I think we need to understand that.

Kate
01:02:52
Do you know what I mean?

Kate
01:02:53
That's the piece I think people get so scared about is really if we start talking to kids about this stuff in middle school, in elementary school, as early as kindergarten, then what does that mean that we're doing to our children?

Kate
01:03:06
It just means that you're giving your children an opportunity to be more of who they want to be without the fear that someone's going to hate them if they are who they are.

Kate
01:03:17
That's what it is.

Kate
01:03:19
Kids carry around that fear of thinking they're freaks, thinking they're weird, thinking they don't belong.

Kate
01:03:25
Why are we doing that to them?

Kate
01:03:27
Let's give them confidence to feel like whoever that they are is okay, period.

Kate
01:03:32
And you're the one who has to evolve and adjust and know that just that basic little education can make a huge difference to these children.

Kate
01:03:42
Truly.

Kate
01:03:44
I think we'd see a lot less suicidal ideation.

Kate
01:03:47
I think we'd see a lot less self harm if we just give kids the opportunity to understand that no matter who you are, it's going to be okay.

Kate
01:03:56
I'm going to love you no matter what, period.

Kate
01:03:58
I'm going to love you no matter what.

Kate
01:04:01
It's going to be hard for me.

Kate
01:04:02
I might have to educate myself, I might have to adjust, I might have to do my own work, but I will not stop loving you and providing a space for you to feel safe in, period.

Autumn
01:04:16
Yes, that's, that's what I've seen among my friends at school as well is so many of them are afraid to come out to their parents because they're like, oh, what if they don't accept me?

Autumn
01:04:28
Because so in.

Autumn
01:04:30
At my school a lot of my friends are, are first generation immigrants, primarily from India and stuff like that.

Autumn
01:04:39
And a lot of them are like, oh my parents will hate me because blah blah, blah, blah blah, whatever reasons.

Autumn
01:04:45
And it's.

Autumn
01:04:46
I, I can't really speak on it because obviously I am white.

Autumn
01:04:52
So it's a very, it's hard for me to, for me being someone who is openly non binary and stuff like that, it's hard for me to navigate it with them.

Autumn
01:05:04
But from what I've seen and what I've heard them say is that their parents are wanting Them from.

Autumn
01:05:12
From what they're.

Autumn
01:05:12
From what they're saying their parents are wanting them to be successful in the United States and be able to provide for whatever families they may have later down the line to.

Autumn
01:05:25
It's the point where a lot of the time they don't feel comfortable telling their parents, not only because they're afraid of how their parents will react, but also because they don't want to disappoint their parents and not live up to what they want to.

Autumn
01:05:40
What their parents want them to be.

Kate
01:05:45
Well said.

Kate
01:05:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Kate
01:05:50
I think cultural standards are honestly an entirely another layer of looking at everything we've discussed today, because there are definitely cultural components here that we would need to understand.

Kate
01:06:05
So thank you, Autumn, for pointing that out.

Heather
01:06:09
Absolutely.

Heather
01:06:10
Absolutely.

Heather
01:06:11
Well, I'd like to give everyone kind of an opportunity to.

Heather
01:06:17
Excuse me.

Heather
01:06:18
To kind of.

Heather
01:06:20
We're going to wrap it up.

Heather
01:06:21
We're just about at an hour and have kind of close with just your closing thoughts.

Heather
01:06:28
Wrap it up thoughts.

Heather
01:06:29
Whatever.

Heather
01:06:30
Whatever you want it to be.

Heather
01:06:32
And just know that I'm.

Heather
01:06:35
I am so grateful that all of you gave of your time to be here and to share so authentically.

Heather
01:06:44
Thank you.

Autumn
01:06:45
Thank you as well.

Kate
01:06:47
Thank you very much.

Heather
01:06:50
Of course.

Heather
01:06:51
Of course, darling.

Heather
01:06:52
Would you like.

Heather
01:06:53
I'll let Grace start.

Gray
01:06:57
I guess.

Gray
01:06:58
I don't know, just closing thoughts for any of the people listening and parents listening.

Gray
01:07:10
It's scary for you and for the person that you're listening for.

Gray
01:07:18
And I think understanding that is a good first step and just being willing to have conversation in which you just need to listen and kind of respect them and just if all you can do is be there for them, then that's all you can do for now.

Gray
01:07:47
And knowing that it might be a little.

Gray
01:07:50
A long process, a long journey for both of you, but in the end, it's worth it.

Kate
01:07:58
Yeah.

Autumn
01:08:02
And.

Autumn
01:08:03
Yeah, leading on from that, it's.

Autumn
01:08:06
It's important to know that in someone's journey in understanding who they are, it took me a few years to understand who I am.

Autumn
01:08:14
For some other people, it may take them a few months or something, but for other people may take them decades.

Autumn
01:08:20
And that's the beauty of it is you really just kind of take it by ear and go from there.

Autumn
01:08:27
Because as you go forth, being in such a emotional environment, I guess I could say is you.

Autumn
01:08:36
The.

Autumn
01:08:37
Both the parent and the person coming out really just gotta understand.

Autumn
01:08:42
It's a lifelong process.

Autumn
01:08:44
No matter how long it takes them, their emotions are constantly developing and evolving.

Autumn
01:08:49
They will continue to devolve.

Autumn
01:08:52
Even if their sexuality never changes, if their identity never changes, or even if it changes 10 times or something like that, it's a process that will be ever evolving.

Autumn
01:09:04
And that's just where, yeah, just take it by ear.

Autumn
01:09:08
Follow the waves.

Kate
01:09:13
I just.

Kate
01:09:14
First, I want to extend my gratitude again, Heather, to you, because having a platform like this is critical, especially in the state of our country.

Kate
01:09:22
So being able to put this information out there from people who are actually living it, I'm deeply appreciative.

Kate
01:09:30
And I am also very grateful, Gray and Autumn, to the both of you, because I want to extend my gratitude to our young people for your bravery, for coming out in time.

Kate
01:09:45
That can be very scary right now as well, but for taking the steps you're fighting for all of us as well.

Kate
01:09:51
And I see that, and I appreciate it, and I applaud it.

Kate
01:09:55
Takeaways.

Kate
01:09:56
For me, it's very important that no matter who you are and where you are in your life, you understand that labels and terminology should not be put into boxes.

Kate
01:10:09
Take the time to get to know each individual person you are speaking with.

Kate
01:10:16
Ask them.

Kate
01:10:17
Do not be afraid to ask questions, as long as it's with good intention about how somebody might identify and what that means to them.

Kate
01:10:26
And then, of course, for our adult community, our caregivers, all I ask is that you continue to work on creating those brave spaces where young people, older people, anybody, feels like they can come to you and feel safe enough to come out.

Kate
01:10:46
And honoring the idea, too, that we are, again, piggybacking on Autumn, we are ever evolving human beings on both sides of the conversation.

Kate
01:10:59
And so as long as we give each other grace, I think that we will be doing a lot of work.

Kate
01:11:05
And I'm just grateful.

Kate
01:11:07
I'm grateful for the love and support that have come through and the stories that have been shared today and every day.

Kate
01:11:14
And I am very grateful to my trans community for everything that they have endured.

Kate
01:11:19
And, you know, we can also take a moment today, especially for me, to just reflect on everything that the trans community, especially the trans community of color, has gone through as we are honoring today.

Kate
01:11:34
Trans Day, Transgender Day of Remembrance would mean a lot to me and many members of the community.

Kate
01:11:42
Thank you.

Heather
01:11:47
Thank you all.

Heather
01:11:51
Thanks so much for joining me today.

Heather
01:11:54
If you enjoyed today's episode Head, I would be so grateful.

Heather
01:11:58
For a rating or a review, click on the link in the show notes or go to my website, chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources, as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Heather
01:12:14
Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone.

Heather
01:12:19
And remember to just breathe until next time.