How Great Leaders Build Transparency, Accountability & Team Success with Sean Healy

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Welcome back, rock stars, to another episode.
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Today we're featuring Sean Healy, the CEO of Accounted For.
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But this episode, guys, is so fun.
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We're talking about leadership development and how we develop independent leaders, and the name of this episode?
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I don't know what it's going to be yet.
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I'll probably have it figured out later but it's basically discussing the F word in business, which is failure.
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His company has a culture around failure that I've never seen and it's going to be a powerful episode as you learn about how he's built a team of people that feel so safe that they get up every day and they want to come to work.
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Now, obviously, that's not everyone every day, but he qualifies it based on this.
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My new favorite quote of culture in a company, which is company culture, is the feeling your employees get on the Sunday night before coming to work.
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Man does that hit me hard in this episode, and he talks about how we eliminate all the resistance in our employees' lives by making failure something we celebrate.
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And if you don't believe me, listen.
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By the end you'll be a believer.
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Enjoy the show, okay.
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So, sean, as you're building your company, leadership is key, absolutely.
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So let's talk about leadership development from your perspective.
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What has that journey been like for you, developing leaders at Accounted For?
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Okay.
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So developing leaders is just like developing any other employee.
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There's a lot of failure involved.
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I mean, one of the things that we do that I think was really important and it's a key piece of our culture, a key piece of our development is we encourage failure.
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We talk about failure every single day, really, when we kick off our team meetings.
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We do team meetings Tuesday, wednesday, thursday.
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So I meet with my leadership team every Monday just as a kickoff strategy.
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How is everything in each department going?
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Tuesday, wednesday, thursday?
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Everybody jumps on a quick call.
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We go what were our successes?
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And we let everybody talk from bottom up what were our failures, bottom up, every single time.
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And then we talk about what needs to get done that day, if anybody needs help.
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We talk about stuff what's going to happen the next day, the next day, is there anything that we need to be aware of?
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But by throwing failures in and making failures something that you celebrate, it changes how transparent employees are.
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It changes how people lead.
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It opens up the door to just a lot of unique growth.
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I love that, sean, and it's interesting because I listen, I've, I've, I've read the books good to great and they talk about making it safe for failure, but I've never heard the concept, the way you're describing it, to where you're leaning into it, like it's brought up repeatedly as an item to be celebrated in that regard, because that's going to completely change the game in terms of just how people feel safe about it.
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So, literally every day, your employees will say here's my successes and here's where I failed.
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Oh, yeah, I mean to a degree where, like we, we, we like it's something.
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People I'm not gonna say they get excited about talking about failures, but yeah, we, every single day, if there's a failure, it's something that's being brought up and it's hey, I learned, or I failed, but this is what I learned not to do again.
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Now, obviously, if somebody fails the same way every single day, you have to go about it a little differently at some point.
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But overall, a lot of times the quickest way to learn is to fail right.
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You need to put certain safety nets.
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You have to have checks and balances right.
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A failure can't drastically impact a client, but doing something incorrectly and knowing you have the right checks and balances.
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I want my team to come and try new things.
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I want them to fail because when they fail they're going to learn and they're going to grow faster than everybody else.
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If you're willing to put yourself out there, it's the easiest way to grow as a professional.
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Well, there's probably no other way to grow right.
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There's like um, one of my favorite mentors once told me a story about someone that made a mistake that cost him tens of thousands of dollars and the way he handled it.
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He told me this and he wasn't bragging, he was just a nat, and he's a huge success.
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He has multiple hospitals not like you know, like his hospitals plural and he's and he told me.
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He said this person made this mistake, but I knew, he said.
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He said I knew they were trying their best and that they were very competent, otherwise, they were taking on something new, very challenging, and it resulted in this massive failure.
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He put his arm around them and go.
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Well, that was the best money I've ever spent.
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And this person in tears is like what are you talking about?
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And he goes.
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Well, I have to pay to learn and I either pay coaches, or I pay companies or consultants or whatever he goes, or I pay through experience and he goes.
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Now I have an employee who knows how to handle this the right way.
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He goes.
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In the end, that's going to make me the next million dollars and I can only imagine, sean, how your employees feel when they're not only just safe to share it.
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But they have a leader that believes in them enough to put their arm around them and go good for you, good for you.
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Let's celebrate that fact.
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You have to live up to it too.
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When somebody makes a failure, you have to stop.
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Leadership has to be aligned.
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I forget what the book was, but they say that culture is kind of what your direct team is your, your direct team.
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So in larger companies, managers play such a key role in culture because the company might have a good culture, but if your team doesn't, then that employee's perception is that the company doesn't have a good culture.
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And when something does go wrong, it's taking a deep breath and it's reminding yourself that this is a learning experience and there's positives of when you create that type of culture.
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I found If something goes wrong, I want to know about it quickly.
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I don't want somebody to be so scared that they're not going to bring something up, especially in the finance world.
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If something goes wrong, you need to know about it and get on top of it right away.
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Now, once again, there's a lot of processes and we put a lot of double checks in place, so it's very difficult to have a catastrophic failure right, but especially when accounting firms are, there's constant hacking attempts and there's all these different things that can go wrong, having an environment where somebody's like well, immediately bring it up to you or really immediately bring it to light.
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It just gives you the ability to do something about it if and when that scenario happens.
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Well, yeah, and I think that there's this inherent accountability that that culture creates when you make it safe for people to promote their failures.
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Because, first of all, failure is the ultimate F word in business for a lot of companies' cultures, meaning they don't talk about it, they don't want to look at it.
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Their employees are constantly just trying to like up, manage their, their direct reports by showing them all the great things that they've done without you know, in hiding and putting under rug every little thing that's done.
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But what the problem with that is is that it promotes even good people from to becoming unethical and they're out of integrity and how they act, because integrity isn't good or bad, it's just the balance of those things.
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So if we're not providing the failures and mistakes to our direct reports, then we're not telling them the whole story, and I've learned in my own companies then you get a culture, especially in remote companies, of people who start snowballing and they start watching Netflix and hiding it.
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And there's a difference, I think, in failure between effort and rebellion.
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Like rebellion, failure is where they're just not trying, they're trying to cheat the system.
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Effort, effortful mistakes is like is, is like what we should love and nurture and show nothing but kindness and mercy on the way that you do.
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But I think it's the intention behind it, sometimes Like yes, have you ever had anyone like come clean on, like other stuff, like yeah, I checked in, but I didn't do anything?
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I don't know, that probably doesn't show up in a team meeting sense, but have you ever had employees do that?
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So I mean, it's a good question.
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We do one-on-ones, we try to keep teams in groups of six.
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We try not to get over that and you know when it just we find that it's hard to manage more than like five people at any one point in time right.
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We do one-on-ones each week and I think sometimes there's times where you see something's going wrong and because you're okay with talking about failures, you know you kind of wait for them to bring it up, even though you probably have a good idea that something's going on.
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There's been a few times where you know you can see something's happening and you can call it out.
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We try not to do it in an attacking way.
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We don't want anybody to get defensive.
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So one of the biggest I think it was Brene Brown had a good quote and one of my employees brought it up to me saying hey, I think this is a better way for us to communicate with our team when it's something emotional or when we need to call something out.
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It's the story I'm telling myself is this, and so what you do is you say what you're thinking, but you throw the story of what the story I'm telling myself is, because this is what's in my brain.
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Yeah, the story in my head is that you are busy and yeah, yeah, yeah story in my head is that you are busy and, yeah, yeah, yeah, you start describing the subjective, unproven facts in a way that helps them feel like there's some safe distance from it.
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And a lot of times you'll start to understand that, yeah, there's something happening, hey, I am getting a little lazy, hey, I don't know why, but I've been waking up a little late or I've just been really overwhelmed, or I just haven't been happy recently, and it you can kind of get past that smoke screen and you can actually just have a real conversation with the person, figure out what's going on and see what you can do to help.
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You know it.
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Just let's say it comes down to intention.
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You have to.
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You know the goal is, if you're going to put somebody on a performance plan, it's not to get them out of the company.
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When you put them on a performance plan, it's to help them perform and make sure you're giving them all the tools that they need or support that they need to be a top performer.
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Yeah, I love that and I love the way that you described this.
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One of my previous guests said something that has stayed with me.
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It was the idea that we want to give our employees the benefit of the doubt is one of the greatest techniques we can ever do.
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Now, there's a difference between that and not being firm on what's right and having those hard conversations.
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Avoiding confrontation.
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Yeah Right.
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Oh, they're probably just tired.
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It's like, no, I'm going to talk to them about it and we're going to talk about the outcomes objectively, like, hey, this isn't being met, we're not skirting around that issue.
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But what we're saying is, hey, listen, I don't know what's going on, but I trust you.
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I sense from you something else might be going on, and I really want to help you with that, because I had one employee once, sean, that we were missing money from our cash pay bin at the front of our desk, and every week we would just notice $10 was missing here and there, and whoever it was didn't know that.
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I was aware of it, and so we started tracking it.
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I was trying to catch the person.
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I did, I eventually caught the person, and when I confronted this individual to fire him, I was pretty just black and white about it.
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I wasn't a jerk.
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I just said, hey, listen, this is done, we're finished.
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I saw you stealing from me.
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I know you're stealing from me, we're finished.
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And I said I won't call the cops if you just walk away right now and I never hear from you again.
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And he came back to me three years later and he showed up at the door.
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He's like I was desperate.
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I want you to know I'm sorry, I'll pay you back.
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I was desperate.
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He kind of went through it and I just thought, wow, even when the most heinous acts are being done, there's a human element to it.
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Somewhere, rarely, I think, do people act out of pure malice?
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So I know we've talked about the extreme version of people like failing because of rebellion or like stealing, but I just think it's nice to balance that, because in your team, people are able to do that.
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So what's the result for you?
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What have you heard from the team that you've worked with about that in terms of how they feel about talking about their fears?
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I've gotten nothing but positive feedback on it.
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I think initially it can be a little difficult and, mind you, our clients, we have the same conversations.
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So when we meet with our clients once a month to talk about finance, we also ask what were our successes last month, what were our failures last month?
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It's meant to drive self-awareness right and you're a little uncomfortable in the beginning.
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It's a muscle that you kind of have to utilize, right?
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But once the team starts using it, what I find intriguing and when I know that it's starting to work is when I do a one-on-one.
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I ask what the failure was or what the success was, and their response is you know it's funny I was thinking about this last night and what that means is they're going through their week, they're trying to figure out intentionally yeah.
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It's that proactive mindset Right, and so I.
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I, when I hear stuff like that, I know what's working right.
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When they know what their focus was from last week and they they tie it into the one-on-one like they're, they're being intentional, so it's.
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I've I've seen it work really well.
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I've even had instances where we've brought people on part-time and it was probably the biggest compliment I've ever received.
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We had somebody that came on part-time, called me up one day and was like I want to come on full-time.
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I know it's not something we discussed yet, but the culture on your team there's just such, it's so different.
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It's so just like refreshing.
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I want to be a part of this team and like that's that's what I want to, that's what I like, that's the the end result right, you want to have a good place that you're working at.
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I mean, yeah, you want to be happy and you spend most of your life in this place called work Cause you have to eat, yeah, so, like, why wouldn't you want to work somewhere that you're you're, you love and you're happy?
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Yeah, let me remind you, it's a bookkeeping and accounting company.
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It's not the most fun, it's not the most sexy Not Disneyland, yeah.
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But when you can show up to work, you enjoy the people you work with.
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Yeah, even if selfishly, you're going to do a better job, you're going to care, and that's not something that you can just throw money at people and say care, you have to put the right structure in place.
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You have to put the right culture in place.
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Well, you know, I I said Disneyland kind of, you know, tongue in cheek because you were talking about hey, we're an accounting firm and physical therapists you know, we're in there from a physical therapy owner perspective I could.
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I think the people listening to this are like, yeah, how could that be cool?
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But what I've learned is what you already know, which is that you can have that cultural experience in any business where you're making a difference.
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Cause who doesn't need accounting?
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Who doesn't man dude the headaches I was telling you about before this call, I went through four different companies and I just none of them were specialized in PT.
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It was this constant like like do I really have to deal with this crap?
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Like, why do I have to deal with money?
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But what it's interesting is like that culture makes a difference.
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And so you I think that maybe you guys are the Disneyland of accounting companies because you have a culture where people feel safe and have fun Putting that on the website.
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That's a Disneyland of accounting firms.
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My medical billing company that I was running for all those years I used to laugh at how fun it was, because when I, you know, when I tell people I'm a physical therapist, they're like I still kind of do, honestly Cause people are like, oh wow, look at you.
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But when I say I am an owner of a medical billing company or now it's a virtual assistant company, people go okay, whatever who cares, especially PTs who are like that's so boring.
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But dude, my billers back in the day they were just like the they would.
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They would high five, like we got more money from Aetna.
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Heck yeah, stick it to the man High five.
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It was super fun and I just there's passion in anywhere that there's product right and what you guys produce is so valuable, you produce more.
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I mean, it's always like the what and the why, but I remember what I've heard from my common.
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Oh, by the way, this is true, this isn't just for the episode today.
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One of our common clients was on a call on Wednesday of this week and she was talking about how she said this was the first year ever that she started the year without feeling doom and gloom.
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She goes I know where my numbers are, I know what I have.
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That's why it's fun, because it's not about the numbers, it's about this therapist owner who's amazing, by the way, super talented, taking fear and pain away from her and encouraging her to go out there and grow her practice and change people's lives.
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Dude, how cool is that?
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It's great.
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I mean some of the feedback we get from clients.
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Some of the feedback we get from clients.
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I don't even understand how we get some of the compliments we get and I'm not saying we're perfect in any way, shape or form.
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But I'll hear from some of our clients being like I can't tell you how much I appreciate your team.
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Or when it's compliments on my team, I take that to just like it's the ultimate compliment.
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Because that's who you're focused on is developing your leadership team?
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Yeah, I'm also very fortunate to.
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I look, we can talk about the culture, but you really need good people.
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You need people that are bought in and care and you need legitimate people to like that can really take the company to the next level.
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And they, they have the hard job.
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I work for them, like I, they are the they're, they're fantastic.
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I'm extremely lucky for every single individual on our team and, um, they, they're the reason that it all happens.
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So I got to say.
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My favorite thing about hosting the show for me is that I feel like this is like a hundred percent about me learning.
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My audience, of course, gets to come along for the journey that I get to go on personally every time, because I I get to experience people like you and I get to get it from different angles.
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So the thing I'm going to share is that I was filming another episode with a PT owner who had 20 locations that he built in six years seven years, and the way you two are similar, it's like.
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So he said the same thing that you said.
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It's like his focus.
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He didn't say it in the words that you did about working for the team, but he said was like when I mentally shifted from I'm not about my patients, but I'm about my leaders and I'm about making sure that they get the best experience possible, that I can help them grow and, yes, I pay them well.
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But he said the same thing, almost word for word, about you can't pay people to care.
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It's like what you can't but you pay, but you still have to pay, like that's.
00:18:10.791 --> 00:18:13.996
The problem is, is that like there's a, that's a component, but it's more than that.
00:18:13.996 --> 00:18:15.180
It's like an experience.
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.230
It's about growth and all the things that you just talked about.
00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:21.049
So it's fun for me because I get the different learning of it.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:22.842
It's like, okay, so how am I doing that?
00:18:22.842 --> 00:18:31.653
And rock stars, how are you doing that with your leaders, whether you have one location or you have 80 locations, like, what are you doing to help pour into your leaders?
00:18:31.653 --> 00:18:34.663
And so that's a great, and I think everyone has a different answer.
00:18:34.663 --> 00:18:36.107
What so?
00:18:36.107 --> 00:18:39.987
The big thing that you mentioned at beginning is this idea of taking the F word out of fear.
00:18:39.987 --> 00:18:45.125
Obviously, that's one way that you grow your leaders is by helping them learn to grow in the organic way.
00:18:45.125 --> 00:18:51.734
What are other things that you do to show your leaders that you care or build them, to grow them?
00:18:51.734 --> 00:18:54.269
All the things that you think about, what do you do, sean?
00:18:55.661 --> 00:18:55.881
I'd say.
00:18:55.881 --> 00:19:01.490
One of the other things that I try to do is I am always asking them what I can do better.
00:19:02.792 --> 00:19:03.173
Wow.
00:19:03.192 --> 00:19:05.513
You model, you model feedback.
00:19:05.877 --> 00:19:12.201
Yeah, I want to know if there's something in our company that needs to change or needs to improve.
00:19:12.201 --> 00:19:18.433
And if you're not going to change yourself, how can you expect everybody else to?
00:19:18.433 --> 00:19:26.481
So I try to get as much feedback as possible, now, mind you, it doesn't mean that we're going to change every time we get a piece of feedback right.
00:19:26.481 --> 00:19:28.605
There's key things.
00:19:28.605 --> 00:19:29.885
You have to know when to say no.
00:19:29.885 --> 00:19:32.608
You have to make sure that certain things align, certain things don't.
00:19:32.608 --> 00:19:39.476
But I think a key piece of it is you have to accept the feedback, but you also have to trust them to make decisions.
00:19:39.476 --> 00:19:58.353
I mean, I'm sure you're aware of this, and anybody that runs a company knows how hard it is to delegate and knows how hard it is to trust other people with maybe taking the wheel and maybe going in the wrong direction.
00:19:58.353 --> 00:20:00.700
The amount of times that I've let my team make a decision and I just backed them, you know, hey, let's see how it goes.
00:20:00.700 --> 00:20:05.131
All right, like I might not agree, but I think this is a good opportunity for us to learn.
00:20:05.131 --> 00:20:16.491
You know, and a lot of times what will happen is, all of a sudden things get that much better, you know, and just trying to make sure that you have a good understanding and a good gauge for what they need to be successful.
00:20:16.491 --> 00:20:19.894
Like perfect example, we've done a culture index.
00:20:19.894 --> 00:20:21.079
I don't know if you ever heard of culture index.
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:22.019
Love it.
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:25.422
Okay, I thrive in chaotic environments.
00:20:25.422 --> 00:20:32.265
Every single person on my team works better in structured environments.
00:20:32.265 --> 00:20:37.366
I am not good at building structure, so I mind you.
00:20:37.366 --> 00:20:39.287
Now we, we we have a lot of structure.
00:20:39.287 --> 00:20:43.949
It's something I had to put a lot of time and energy into getting better at, but I didn't do it all alone.
00:20:43.969 --> 00:20:47.111
But I didn't do it all alone, it was the team, it was constant feedback.
00:20:47.111 --> 00:20:50.011
It was how do we improve this, even when someone was working?
00:20:50.011 --> 00:20:50.951
Could it work better?
00:20:50.951 --> 00:21:00.736
It's sometimes putting some of those pieces in place standard operating procedures, a project management system, simple things.
00:21:00.736 --> 00:21:02.217
Who would have guessed?
00:21:02.217 --> 00:21:07.419
I don't know how we ran our company pre some of those items.
00:21:07.419 --> 00:21:13.319
We, when we do our like one-on-ones, we laugh about it sometimes, like, do you remember the day when we didn't have mondaycom?
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:14.603
Like it's?
00:21:14.603 --> 00:21:16.849
You know those things go a very long way.
00:21:16.849 --> 00:21:31.455
You got to ask the question, you got to be open to it and you need to prioritize what's the biggest thing that I can impact in my company Cause, as a leader, your job is to target the biggest thing that's going to drive the most change and that has to be your focus.
00:21:31.496 --> 00:21:35.048
You have to do all the other jobs too but it has to be your focus.
00:21:35.631 --> 00:21:41.310
Yeah, I can hear my rock stars asking about some of these softwares and things like moneycom.
00:21:41.310 --> 00:21:41.873
I know what that is.
00:21:41.873 --> 00:21:52.334
So when you talk about SOPs or standard operating procedures or playbooks, as sometimes they're called, or when you think about different structural pieces that have been vital to you, have you seen?
00:21:52.334 --> 00:22:01.465
You may not know, but, like for PT practices specifically, have you seen anything that you have seen work well in your PT practices to help them create that same structure?
00:22:02.107 --> 00:22:02.869
Oh, absolutely.
00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:07.470
Cadence of communication with your team Number one.
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:08.383
What do you recommend?
00:22:08.383 --> 00:22:09.527
Like, what do you think?
00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:12.630
I think that everybody should have at least a one-on-one every single week.
00:22:12.630 --> 00:22:16.049
Even if it's a 15 minute one-on-one, it should be a quick check-in.
00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:18.006
Same structured meeting every single week.
00:22:18.006 --> 00:22:21.005
Nothing gets, nothing gets scheduled over one-on-ones.
00:22:21.005 --> 00:22:24.321
So a manager meets with their team, you meet with your leadership team.
00:22:24.321 --> 00:22:27.527
If you don't have a weekly cadence, you're you're.
00:22:27.527 --> 00:22:29.189
You're playing the game at a disadvantage.
00:22:29.348 --> 00:22:29.710
How do you?
00:22:29.710 --> 00:22:30.131
What's the?
00:22:30.131 --> 00:22:33.035
What's the structure of that one-on-one, that 15 minute one-on-one?
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.528
So we use something similar to an action review.
00:22:37.528 --> 00:22:39.337
So the action action review is very similar to our action review.
00:22:39.337 --> 00:22:40.884
Is what, like the army, the Navy use?
00:22:40.884 --> 00:22:42.490
It's what usually high performing teams use.
00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:44.590
What went well or what was the focus?
00:22:44.590 --> 00:22:45.632
What went well?
00:22:45.632 --> 00:22:46.592
What didn't go well?
00:22:46.592 --> 00:22:47.913
What's the focus for the next week?
00:22:47.913 --> 00:22:51.835
Or we do it as, as I mentioned earlier what was your focus?
00:22:51.835 --> 00:22:53.976
What were our successes this week?
00:22:53.976 --> 00:22:54.876
Where were our failures?
00:22:54.876 --> 00:22:56.317
What's our focus this coming week?
00:22:56.738 --> 00:22:57.038
Oh man.
00:22:57.038 --> 00:22:59.285
So it's very like results driven.
00:22:59.285 --> 00:23:02.111
It's very much like you know cause we could talk.
00:23:02.111 --> 00:23:03.580
So how are you doing?
00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:07.929
Oh man, I just woke up kind of in it's like versus, like what went well, what didn't?
00:23:07.929 --> 00:23:09.070
Where was your focus?
00:23:09.070 --> 00:23:10.834
What went well, what didn't, and what are you focusing on now?
00:23:10.834 --> 00:23:12.826
I love that because it gets to that point.
00:23:12.826 --> 00:23:14.768
I don't think it needs to take a lot of time.
00:23:15.882 --> 00:23:17.066
No, we do 30 minutes.
00:23:17.066 --> 00:23:33.256
Where I do 30 minutes with my leadership team each week, my managers do it with the account managers each week and each week and, as I said, sometimes it is just like a this was just a bad week, I had a bad week and it's like okay, you know, that's okay, right, what can we do to make sure we're set up for a good week next week?
00:23:33.256 --> 00:23:39.865
You know, you can, you can kind of take that step back and try to move some of the emotion out of it and just what's in our realm of control, right?
00:23:39.865 --> 00:23:45.251
Like some of those simple things that you read in all the hundred thousand business books or leadership books.
00:23:45.251 --> 00:23:50.625
It's just asking those questions sometimes and just putting it into a very good, structured format.
00:23:50.625 --> 00:23:55.968
It just keeps you on the same page with your team and when you fall off, it's like a highway, right.
00:23:55.968 --> 00:23:59.085
When you get off the highway, how quickly can you get back on, right?
00:24:00.347 --> 00:24:04.104
I like that because you started with meeting rhythms for structure.
00:24:04.104 --> 00:24:12.722
When people leave a company they don't like what's the number one cliche thing that everyone says oh they, they were, they were, communication was horrible, like so.
00:24:12.722 --> 00:24:14.508
So the what's the one way to change it?
00:24:14.508 --> 00:24:17.002
Communication, and I would, I would argue, rock struck stars.
00:24:17.002 --> 00:24:33.963
As you're listening to this, if you're struggling somewhere in your business, maybe there's a, there's probably not, maybe there's a probable out out point in your company around communication, and I love that thing that Sean just highlighted this, this uh, one-on-one structure that allows you to connect, uh, what else would you recommend, sean?
00:24:33.963 --> 00:24:34.266
You're on a.
00:24:34.266 --> 00:24:34.968
You're on a roll bud.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.587
No, I just some standard operating procedures.
00:24:37.587 --> 00:24:47.773
You know if, something as simple as before somebody walks out of your office, you know, are we scheduling all the meetings for the rest of their plan of care, right?
00:24:47.773 --> 00:24:56.015
Is there something tracking how many people are walking out the door without scheduling all 14, 16, 18?
00:24:56.015 --> 00:24:58.087
Are they just scheduling the next two and then leaving?
00:24:58.087 --> 00:25:01.709
Those little things go a very, very long way.
00:25:01.709 --> 00:25:05.951
If you want your billing team to do something, do you have those processes written out?
00:25:05.951 --> 00:25:17.432
You know, because if all of a sudden they're coming, if your employees are coming to you asking question after question after question and you're giving the same answer after answer after answer, you are wasting time.
00:25:17.432 --> 00:25:22.661
It can be something as simple as did you look for the standard operating procedure, yet Did you look for the SOP?
00:25:22.661 --> 00:25:23.500
Oh, there isn't one.
00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:30.906
All right, we're going to talk about it, but you're going to go and write this SOP next and the next time somebody comes it's not going to give you the answer.
00:25:31.967 --> 00:25:33.489
Did you go check the SOPs, right?
00:25:33.489 --> 00:25:41.315
And little by little it's a mountain, but little by little you start having this information that your team can access.
00:25:41.315 --> 00:25:46.018
It doesn't all have to be in your head, right, and it also doesn't always have to be your way.
00:25:46.018 --> 00:25:52.048
They're meant like by them being in charge of the SOPs they might bring improvements that you never thought of.
00:25:52.048 --> 00:25:55.826
It doesn't have to be your idea to be a good idea, you know.
00:25:55.826 --> 00:25:56.548
So it's just.
00:25:56.548 --> 00:25:59.744
It's just that it's getting into that consistent cadence.
00:25:59.744 --> 00:26:03.498
It just it makes a world of difference over the course of time.
00:26:03.498 --> 00:26:13.102
It's going to be annoying for a week or two, for a couple months, but little by little, by little, you know, people become more self-sufficient.
00:26:13.102 --> 00:26:16.297
The information's already there, you know, it's just.
00:26:16.297 --> 00:26:19.226
You start to see some incremental improvement that way.
00:26:19.914 --> 00:26:24.768
I like the way you described development and living of SOPs as a habit development.
00:26:24.768 --> 00:26:26.500
I like that you describe it that way.
00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:29.921
It's almost like that'd be a great book title, right, the Habit of SOPs.
00:26:29.921 --> 00:26:33.964
Because people think of it as something that they have or they don't.
00:26:33.964 --> 00:26:40.165
They don't realize they're living documents that are meant to be collaborated and created by the people who are running them.
00:26:40.165 --> 00:26:47.647
And the way you describe that development of that frustration from personal validation of what you just said.
00:26:47.816 --> 00:26:54.864
When we did our physical therapy, when we grew our physical therapy practice, when we started getting multiple locations, that's when we started SOPs Interesting.
00:26:54.864 --> 00:26:58.617
We called them playbooks, like the PT playbook, the front and vest playbook.
00:26:58.617 --> 00:27:01.726
Yeah, and they were just SOPs.
00:27:01.726 --> 00:27:10.616
And it was so funny because eventually, when we sold, one of the big things that shocked me was that the SOPs were part of what they were buying.
00:27:10.616 --> 00:27:20.663
It was like that, yes, they were buying the revenue, but it's the systems that they care about next to the revenue, because the people are variable and, yes, they do care about people, but they were third in the mix.
00:27:21.174 --> 00:27:24.285
So when I started one of my companies after selling, it was weird.
00:27:24.285 --> 00:27:28.446
I remember we were starting and it was like, okay, let's write this down.
00:27:28.446 --> 00:27:29.780
Where are we putting our Google Doc?
00:27:29.780 --> 00:27:33.184
Because in the early days we didn't have softwares like Trainual, if you've heard of those guys.
00:27:38.815 --> 00:27:45.599
So the software you can use right now for and I'm plugging train you all for those of you who are like where could I go to help do this train you all teaches you how to create sops and it creates a centralized platform that even tracks people in their training.
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:50.497
So when you have sops, you can see if they're answering the quizzes right and if they've done the training.
00:27:50.497 --> 00:27:55.565
But in the beginning it was just a google doc and it's just like, like you start writing okay, I figured out a problem, write it down, and it's.
00:27:55.565 --> 00:27:57.407
It's such an annoying step.
00:27:57.407 --> 00:28:09.624
Every time, Sean, for me I'm like, oh, I have to write this down, but like when you get in the habit of it, you stop thinking about it Cause, like you said, then you start scaling and then it's just they're, they're all doing it with you and that document gets created.
00:28:09.624 --> 00:28:15.653
So I love that you created you habit of SOP creation as a stability factor in your leadership team.
00:28:15.993 --> 00:28:19.119
Now let me be clear about something I did not write all the SOPs.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.784
No, your team didn't write you.
00:28:20.784 --> 00:28:23.257
And I don't recommend especially owners.
00:28:23.257 --> 00:28:31.063
I think they say if you are a visionary type doing some of that type of administrative work, you're not going to do a good job at all.
00:28:31.063 --> 00:28:33.736
And also there's a concept called the curse of knowledge.
00:28:33.896 --> 00:28:40.269
When you know so much about a certain topic, most people don't even know the foundation that all your knowledge is built on, right?
00:28:40.269 --> 00:28:48.414
So what happens is when you write an SOP, as somebody that's been so in the weeds and knows it, you skip like half the steps.
00:28:48.414 --> 00:28:53.824
And if somebody goes to try to repeat it, they're like this is not in English, right, simple isn't simple, right.
00:28:53.824 --> 00:29:03.180
So having somebody that, especially if you're newer, if we have our people and you're newer go into a new client, read the SOPs.
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:07.631
If they don't make sense, go put them into English, right, go go figure out those missing steps.
00:29:07.631 --> 00:29:08.476
And it's once again.
00:29:08.476 --> 00:29:08.615
It's.
00:29:08.615 --> 00:29:10.038
It's not something you write and you're done.
00:29:10.038 --> 00:29:18.969
It is a constant evolution, it will continue to change and, to your point, it has to be a habit and it has to be something that you know, even your managers, your leadership.
00:29:18.969 --> 00:29:20.330
Somebody's going asking questions?
00:29:20.330 --> 00:29:22.941
Is there an SOP, like you know you have?
00:29:22.941 --> 00:29:26.538
You have to be consistent about it to really get traction over the course of time.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:27.741
Great share.
00:29:27.741 --> 00:29:28.964
Thank you so much for sharing that.
00:29:28.964 --> 00:29:30.116
Okay, so kind of reviewing.
00:29:30.116 --> 00:29:41.105
We were talking about structure that you were able to create that supports your team, which is part of that structure is an element to the bigger discussion we had about creating a culture in your company for your leaders that they love.
00:29:41.105 --> 00:29:45.963
And so you have this meeting rhythm, which are personal, humanizing check-ins.
00:29:45.963 --> 00:29:48.765
You have the second that are results driven.
00:29:48.765 --> 00:29:52.566
You have the second component of systems operations and other things.
00:29:52.566 --> 00:29:57.518
It may not be structure related, but if there is, I'd love to hear about it.
00:29:57.518 --> 00:30:02.960
But what else do you do for your leadership team to help you develop that culture where they feel super safe in failure?
00:30:03.721 --> 00:30:07.459
So the only other two things that I can think of we always allow them to block.
00:30:07.459 --> 00:30:11.448
We pick an hour each week that they can plan for the next week.
00:30:11.448 --> 00:30:15.463
So Thursday end of the day, let's take a look at next week.
00:30:15.463 --> 00:30:19.028
Let's communicate what meetings are coming up, what do we need to get done for there.
00:30:19.028 --> 00:30:21.176
Let's start doing time blocking on our calendars.
00:30:21.176 --> 00:30:23.202
Now, in accounting, we can all work remotely.
00:30:23.202 --> 00:30:26.982
It's a little different than PT, but let's take a PT example.
00:30:26.982 --> 00:30:34.001
If every Thursday, your doctors took a look or your clinic directors took a look, what visits you know, how many visits do we have next week?
00:30:34.001 --> 00:30:35.625
What days are we missing?
00:30:35.625 --> 00:30:37.709
Do we have gaps in the schedule?
00:30:37.709 --> 00:30:39.903
Do we have specific people that there are gaps in the schedule?
00:30:39.903 --> 00:30:44.454
You can do something about that all day, friday.
00:30:44.454 --> 00:30:48.787
Or you can plan hey, you know we want you to go do some marketing.
00:30:48.787 --> 00:30:52.265
Go do it at this time because you don't have patience, right?
00:30:52.265 --> 00:30:58.237
You can look proactively at the next week and make little decisions, right?
00:30:58.637 --> 00:30:58.878
Yeah.
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:01.765
The other thing is just giving people permission to say no.
00:31:01.765 --> 00:31:13.064
I think it can be very easy, for, at least with my team, my team always wants to try to help, so if somebody asks for help, they'll volunteer, even though they might have 10 other priorities that day.
00:31:13.064 --> 00:31:26.301
And the one thing we really try to continuously like it's constantly giving them permission to you own your calendar, those, the clients that you serve, like you own those accounts.
00:31:26.301 --> 00:31:30.824
If there's something that's more important, don't put something urgent before something important.
00:31:30.824 --> 00:31:33.234
Right, like I'd rather you delegate.
00:31:33.234 --> 00:31:34.617
You have permission to delegate.
00:31:34.617 --> 00:31:36.000
You have permission to say no.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.505
I tell you to do something.
00:31:37.505 --> 00:31:38.887
I'm like I need this done.
00:31:38.887 --> 00:31:42.445
You can turn to me and say I don't have the time for that.
00:31:42.445 --> 00:31:48.326
You know you have to give them permission to be able to just be authentic, if that makes sense.
00:31:48.688 --> 00:32:00.596
Absolutely, and you have to make that safe, because my best leaders were able to tell me no without saying no, like I'd say.
00:32:00.596 --> 00:32:01.881
You know, I'd never trained them to do that the way you're doing.
00:32:01.881 --> 00:32:03.929
So, like my best, I remember my best leaders would be like okay, so you want me to do this by this time?
00:32:03.929 --> 00:32:05.113
So here's what else I have going on.
00:32:05.113 --> 00:32:06.861
What would you say is a bigger price?
00:32:06.861 --> 00:32:12.318
Like they would put it back on me in a way that it was like oh well, the other thing, okay, great, so what needs to shift?
00:32:12.318 --> 00:32:12.618
I'll go?
00:32:12.618 --> 00:32:13.740
Oh, I'm not going to give that to you.
00:32:14.201 --> 00:32:22.250
And I remember, after the fourth or fifth time going oh, they're telling me no in the most respectful, kind way, but not everyone has that skill.
00:32:22.250 --> 00:32:27.404
So, being able to and, of course, to counterbalance it, you're not saying people have a right to go.
00:32:27.404 --> 00:32:28.728
No, I don't feel like doing that.
00:32:28.728 --> 00:32:30.019
It's a matter of helping.
00:32:30.019 --> 00:32:40.519
Yeah, all of these things are predicated upon the foundation, like you said earlier, of having the right people.
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:48.836
When you don't have the right people, all these things don't work, and it doesn't matter how hard we try to put these systems in place.
00:32:48.836 --> 00:32:50.659
In my experience it's like if we have C players in our team.
00:32:50.659 --> 00:32:58.387
It's only a matter of time before anything positive we try to put in crumbles because they're actively destroying it or unintentionally destroying it.
00:32:58.409 --> 00:33:03.098
Yeah, when you have players like that, unfortunately, you have to part ways.
00:33:03.098 --> 00:33:05.544
If they're not a culture fit, you have to part ways.
00:33:05.544 --> 00:33:12.627
Some of the clients that I think are most successful will brag about how, hey, we actually let PTs go this month.
00:33:12.627 --> 00:33:15.623
That's our success because they were not a culture fit.
00:33:15.623 --> 00:33:20.608
You know, when a lot of PTs out there are, you know we're having trouble finding people.
00:33:20.608 --> 00:33:26.075
The clients I see are most successful the ones like oh no, no, they, they didn't meet our, they didn't fit our culture.
00:33:26.075 --> 00:33:29.200
You know they might've been a good performer but they didn't fit our culture.
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:37.096
So you know, we decided in the long run it would be best to be part ways, like, yeah, that's a sign of like, you're going to do big things.
00:33:37.817 --> 00:33:57.565
Because that's the hardest thing to do, and right is to like, hey, especially in the service based industry, where if that therapist fire, if the owner fires a therapist, their world gets worse in terms of time not in terms of quality, though, because getting rid of the other person is much better for quality, but there's a definite increase in like who's going to take those patients and all that.
00:33:57.565 --> 00:34:07.398
And I love that you say that, because I think one of the most courageous things that we could ever do is is take a stand for what our values really are about by firing people who aren't a fit.
00:34:07.398 --> 00:34:11.277
So so I think a lot of people listen to episodes like this, looking for that trick.
00:34:11.277 --> 00:34:13.480
Okay, I, my leadership isn't totally dialed in.
00:34:14.081 --> 00:34:16.405
Okay, so Sean's talking about stability.
00:34:16.405 --> 00:34:17.827
Let's learn more about like.
00:34:17.827 --> 00:34:26.086
Oh yeah, the SOP thing and like all these things, but like, at the end of the day, those are the structures, those are the pillars, built upon that foundation of people that you mentioned at the beginning.
00:34:26.086 --> 00:34:33.182
Yeah, and no one ever is perfect at this, but your team, I can feel it, has this like core culture of like.
00:34:33.182 --> 00:34:41.420
They probably even helped eliminate those people, because of your company culture.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.753
Like if someone joined who wasn't a fit, your whole team would probably catch it pretty quick and even you stick out like you stick out like a sore thumb.
00:34:44.773 --> 00:34:47.666
Yeah, I mean, which is great, which is exactly what you want.
00:34:47.666 --> 00:34:50.717
But it's on them to look as as our company continues to grow.
00:34:50.717 --> 00:34:54.706
It's on them to make sure that, like, the culture stays the same.
00:34:54.706 --> 00:34:58.034
It's on them that when somebody does has a failure, that they don't get.
00:34:58.034 --> 00:35:01.364
You know, when they get promoted to be a manager, you don't slap somebody on the wrist.
00:35:01.364 --> 00:35:02.731
When there is failure, you're not.
00:35:02.731 --> 00:35:04.942
You know you have to live by it as well.
00:35:04.942 --> 00:35:15.061
And if I ever hit a point that I stopped doing it, it is your job to tell me that I am doing something wrong and wrong and that is not in line with the culture, and I need to look in the mirror and make a change.
00:35:15.061 --> 00:35:17.244
You know you need to have that.
00:35:17.244 --> 00:35:20.688
Just that you constantly talk about Otherwise it.
00:35:20.688 --> 00:35:29.076
You know, when you grow, it is culture is one of the first things that tends to go unfortunately, Unfortunately.
00:35:29.096 --> 00:35:30.998
Yeah, and if anyone's like well, how do I know if my culture is not in fit?
00:35:30.998 --> 00:35:33.985
Well, you know, I always tell people like hey, if you don't like getting to work, no one else is going to work.
00:35:33.985 --> 00:35:34.846
Happy either.
00:35:35.146 --> 00:35:41.346
I heard a great line Culture is the feeling in your employee's stomach on Sunday night.
00:35:42.496 --> 00:35:47.215
Oh my gosh, that's the best quote on culture I've ever heard.
00:35:47.275 --> 00:35:50.144
I heard it and I was like I will never forget this one-liner.
00:35:50.916 --> 00:35:53.965
I got chills, man, because I was just with my son on Sunday night.
00:35:53.965 --> 00:36:00.715
They were going back to school right after Christmas break and they were having their Sunday night blues and I was relating to him.
00:36:00.715 --> 00:36:03.224
I was just kind of like, man, you know what, it doesn't go away Sometimes.
00:36:03.224 --> 00:36:04.297
I used to have my own company.
00:36:04.297 --> 00:36:09.635
I remember, as an owner, you know dreading Monday because it was like I had a culture that sucked.
00:36:09.635 --> 00:36:13.559
And as as employers, we're still employees of our company, unless we're passive investors.
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.021
So we kind of get our.
00:36:15.021 --> 00:36:19.025
We have our cultural index of our own in our stomachs, don't we Like those Sunday nights?
00:36:19.347 --> 00:36:24.112
You're definitely a prisoner of your own company at times, but you know it's a prison of your own making.
00:36:24.112 --> 00:36:35.186
So it's yeah, it, I, we've all had that job, that we've had that like pit and it's you know, and sometimes it's just asking the team like, do you get the Sunday scaries?
00:36:35.186 --> 00:36:43.358
And and sometimes it's just asking the team like, do you get the Sunday scaries?
00:36:43.358 --> 00:36:51.807
And if you see their look like no, and you're just like uh-oh, all right, I need to do something about this, because if that's what's happening, we need to get to the bottom, we need to get to understand why and make sure that that changes quickly, because nobody wants that.
00:36:51.807 --> 00:36:54.231
You don't want people that are just upset coming to work.
00:36:56.317 --> 00:36:56.697
It's just yeah, man.
00:36:56.697 --> 00:36:58.442
Sean, this has been such a great episode.
00:36:58.442 --> 00:37:02.438
I can't believe how much we've covered in such a short amount of time.
00:37:02.438 --> 00:37:06.876
I want to thank you for sharing your insights and wisdom from building that team.
00:37:06.876 --> 00:37:13.961
I don't think when you've never built a great experience as a business owner, it feels like it's impossible or anyone else can do it.
00:37:14.043 --> 00:37:22.226
So when I hear someone like you go through that and again, my greatest blessing is hearing multiple touch points from people from time to time it's inspiring.
00:37:22.226 --> 00:37:30.260
It's like you know, I think I want rock stars, as you're listening to this, just to recognize that either A you have this and you're going amen, brother, and you picked up some extra kernels that you didn't have before.
00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:34.864
Or maybe you're a PT who's starting out and you don't know where you're going, what you're building towards.
00:37:34.864 --> 00:37:36.346
Well, this is a target for you to hit.
00:37:36.346 --> 00:37:41.349
Or maybe you're in the middle of it with multiple teams, just thinking like man, I have the Sunday night scaries.
00:37:41.349 --> 00:37:47.284
Whatever it is, it's all possible to get to that place where people are super happy and they get to love, where they work.
00:37:47.284 --> 00:37:52.139
So, sean, if people wanted the Disneyland experience of accounting, how could they get ahold of you?
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:59.250
they get ahold of you, uh, so you could always go to our, our website, uh, wwwaccounted4,.
00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:11.780
Uh, a-c-c-o-u-n-t-e-d, the number four, llccom, uh, or um, probably just find my email, which, uh, I can, I can send over to you.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.443
Well, I'll put that in my show notes as well as that website.
00:38:13.443 --> 00:38:17.909
But, guys, rock stars, as you're listening, you know I never get anything out of this personally in terms of financials.
00:38:17.909 --> 00:38:23.902
I only bring services and products and people that inspire me that I know are good for the industry.
00:38:23.902 --> 00:38:30.586
Everyone that we bring on is about helping you discover what's right, and not every person is meant for every person, right.
00:38:30.586 --> 00:38:39.342
Not every service is meant for every client and so on, but I only bring on people that I either do work with or want to work with or would have worked with if I had if I still had my practice.
00:38:39.342 --> 00:38:45.748
So, sean, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and, yeah, thanks again for all those wonderful insights.
00:38:46.135 --> 00:38:46.617
No, thank you.
00:38:46.617 --> 00:38:47.400
This has been a lot of fun.
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:48.163
I appreciate you.
00:38:50.114 --> 00:38:53.983
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to today's episode.
00:38:53.983 --> 00:38:56.186
As a thank you, I have a gift.
00:38:56.186 --> 00:39:00.963
In today's show notes there's a link for you to join the Stress-Free PT newsletter.
00:39:00.963 --> 00:39:06.601
This is a comedy newsletter for anyone who works in healthcare and of course we're gonna have comedy bits.
00:39:06.601 --> 00:39:09.664
We're gonna have inspirational stories, leadership tidbits.
00:39:09.664 --> 00:39:14.583
It's gonna be a weekly newsletter just to lighten your week, to help you do what you love with more passion.
00:39:14.583 --> 00:39:18.824
So click that link below and join that newsletter and we'll see you in our next episode.