A Conversation with Daryl Watson

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Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Inside Out.
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I'm Ian Wilkes and I'm here with the most distinguished Mr.
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Jim Bennett.
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Hello.
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I'm feeling distinguished, so they can't see me, so they don't know how undistinguished I actually look.
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So I can sound distinguished no matter how I look.
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Yes, and with where we are on, you know, getting a little bit older here, we're certainly looking distinguished.
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Jim, I'm really excited about this week's podcast.
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I've been looking forward to it for a while.
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We've been trying to coordinate our schedules.
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And I feel honoured, actually, to introduce this very special guest on the podcast, Daryl Watson from Scotland.
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Daryl, welcome to Inside Out.
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Well, thank you very much, Ian.
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It's a delight to be here with you all the way from Bonny, Scotland.
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Happy to be here.
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But wonderful.
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And as I say, it's a real honor.
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Just as an extension to my introduction, just for a couple of minutes, I just want to share briefly just my experience with you going back now to 87, 1987.
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Because my experience with yourself and certainly your parents had a very profound, quite extraordinary impact on my life.
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And I think I speak for Elder Jacobs as well.
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And so...
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For those who are listening, you will know that Jim Bennett and I served our missions together in Scotland.
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We never served as companions.
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I don't know if I was worthy enough to serve with Jim Bennett, or if he was worthy enough to serve with me.
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I don't know.
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And so I came out in the early 1987 at President Dunn.
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Darrell, you remember him?
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Joel Dunn was the mission president at the time.
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And I served in Dumfries.
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And then I fell in love with the Dumfries people and didn't want to leave.
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I got quite emotional leaving that day.
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I didn't understand the concept of transfers, by the way.
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Having not grown up in the church and joining when I was 16, I'd heard about it, but it was very difficult to...
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disconnect myself from relationships that I'd grown very fond of.
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And they all said in Dumfries, where are you going?
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I said, I'm going to Dunfermline.
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Oh, you love Dunfermline.
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It's amazing.
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I don't want to go to Dunfermline.
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I want to stay in Dumfries.
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I was just so in love with the people there.
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Anyway, so we arrived in Dunfermline, I think in May 87.
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And Ella Jacobs and I had been...
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When we arrived there, we were brand new.
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The other missionaries, Elder Spencer and Elder Blazard, who you know, Daryl.
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And Jim, you know these two missionaries.
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We love them.
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We're lifelong friends.
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We keep in touch, of course.
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And we saw them at the reunion, Daryl.
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We went to a reunion about a few months ago, Jim.
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at President Banks' home.
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Carol, we went there.
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Ben Banks.
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Ben Banks' home.
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We had a big mission reunion.
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Spencer was there.
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Elder Blaser was there.
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Jamie, you came along.
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It was a wonderful experience.
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And so we replaced Ella Spencer and Blaser.
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They were shipped to have somewhere else.
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And Jacobs and I arrived whitewashed, you know, cranny to the area.
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And so we found, you know, the first week was getting to know the members, getting to know the area.
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And the two individuals that we met very quickly, there's two.
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First of all, we met the Brig Cafe people.
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You remember those?
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But it's still there.
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It's still there.
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So, Jim, this is a fish and chip shop and a kebab shop and a King Ribs shop.
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This is still King Ribs.
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I remember that.
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And they used to feed the missionaries and they just loved the missionaries.
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And the missionaries used to go to this fish and chip shop for years.
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And we arrived and introduced ourselves.
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So we had this immediate friendship at the...
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Brig Cafe, I remember that, just down the road from where we were staying as missionaries there.
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And the other two people that we met was your mom and dad.
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Your dad was the bishop, Jackie Watson.
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That's his first name.
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I don't know if that's his official first name, but I think his first name was Jackie.
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And Bishop Watson, I remember the first time meeting him, he was just...
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Adorable.
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He was the kindest.
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Both your parents were the kindest, most loving, most spiritual, most humble people I've ever met.
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In fact, I wasn't always diligent on my journal.
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Did pretty good.
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Didn't always fill it in.
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But I've got almost two pages in my mission journal on your mom and dad.
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And the time I was there with Jacobs, Jim, and I think we've talked, I've mentioned these two individuals on previous podcasts.
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Ella Jacobs and I absolutely fell in love with Daryl's parents.
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We couldn't meet a kinder, nicer, more humble, more helpful, more caring couple.
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The respect for your dad in that ward was extraordinary.
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And I don't want to go too long on this, but your dad in particular had a very personal impact on me and Jacob's as well.
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We had dinner at your mom and dad's place a few times.
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And Jim, he was one of the finest bishops I've ever met.
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And I actually, I was overseas in Europe and I heard that, Daryl, your dad passed away.
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And
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I flew back.
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And I don't do this, Jim, very often.
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I flew back especially.
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And I went to the funeral.
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I could not miss that.
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I was there.
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Brendan Swanee was there.
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I met with Brendan Swanee briefly.
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Elder Kerr was there at the time.
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And there was almost no standing room.
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This man had impacted so many.
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who had traveled far and wide to show their respect.
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And I think I'd learned for the first time during that, I think you spoke, Daryl, at the funeral, I think.
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And I think you conducted, if I'm not mistaken.
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And I learned that he was a railway man for the first time.
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I think he worked on the railways going back.
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But he is, out of the many people I met on my mission, I met many, he is one that stood out most I thought about him so much and think about him at times more than most, frankly.
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That's my introduction.
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You and I, when we moved into the area, I'd forgotten that you'd been back from your mission two years.
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Paul, your friend, I think may have just got back.
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I can't remember.
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And then we went, Jacobs and I went tracting with you, I think within a few weeks of you getting back.
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And Jim, I thought I was good on the door, but Daryl and Paul, Paul Bishop, a wonderful guy.
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I mean, these were seasoned return missionaries and we learned a thing or two about from Daryl and Paul about, you know, knocking on doors, which I always struggled with that.
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So that's my introduction.
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You come from an amazing family, Daryl.
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I absolutely adore your family.
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I was honored to work with you at the time.
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And that is my way of introducing you.
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We would be delighted to hear more about you and your story.
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You know, growing up in the church, There's a lot about you that are still yet to learn.
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Your experience of the church, youth growing up.
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You served a mission.
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We'd love to hear about that.
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You got married.
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You have a family.
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You're still in the temple.
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You've served in some of the most significant leadership callings in the church.
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And we'd love you to share your experience on that.
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And I know we have, Jim and I have got a few questions.
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when you share your experience.
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So could you, enough of me talking, could you just take us through a bit of your experience growing up in the church, what that was like, your family, mission, etc.
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Sure, thanks Ian.
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So thank you for being so gracious about my parents.
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Dad, yeah, he passed away 2005.
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Mum's still alive.
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She's nearly 90 in July.
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Well, she'll be 90 in July.
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I grew up in church.
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My dad joined the church in 1961.
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Mum took another couple of years to come along and join in 1963.
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A couple of missionaries knocked on their door in Trondheim Parkway.
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The key one was Royce Clifton Young from Kanab, Utah.
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Shortly after my dad joined the church in 1961, it was only a few months later, he was called to serve as the branch president in Dunfermline.
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And he served as a branch president from 1962 all the way through to 1975 when Dunfermline branch, as it was, became a ward.
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He had a little bit of a breather.
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They gave him a little bit of a breather for maybe, I think it was seven years.
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And then he was called back as the bishop and he served for another.
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And so he did 13 years and then he did another 13 years as a bishop.
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So when you were serving, Ian, he was already five years in on his second term.
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So in total, he served as the shepherd in Dunfermline for 26 years.
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We love him.
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His name was John Watson, but he was called Giant Jackie, and you know he was just a small man physically, but spiritually he was a giant, and he touched many, many people's lives, including us children and my mother.
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I think my mother had a lot to endure over the years because he was constantly away, but she was very supportive.
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I grew up in church, had a few experiences growing up, one of which was pretty significant and I think it impacted me in a big way.
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First year at high school, you might remember Woodmill High School, Ian and Dunfermline.
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I don't know if you remember Woodmill.
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But in the English class, I was only a member of the church in the high school at that time.
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So I was in a high school of about 1,600 kids and I was only one member of the church.
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But in English, the English teacher said one thing morning early in the new year he says do any of you go to church and I thought well I do and put your hands up if you go to church so Kenny Gingerly I put my hand up and then Kenny looked around and was then you know I was sitting on the front row and realised oh my goodness I'm the only fool who's put their hand up and I And so from that day onwards, I became the religious correspondent in the English class.
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So any religious topical thing that came up about faith, Darrell here got to speak on the topic.
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And of course, it would come with an LDS slant at the same time because that's all I knew.
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I didn't know anything else.
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But that had a big impact on me because from a young age, talk and share about my faith in front of a class of kids.
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Grew up through church, was always active, I was called as a, I was a ward clerk when I was 16, I don't know how my dad did that because you know you're not to be a ward clerk until you're a Melchizedek priesthood holder but anyway, I was a ward clerk and then I was a I was called on a mission in 1983.
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I served an England-London mission with A.
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Harold Goodman.
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I was only the 18-month missions at that time.
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I went out and I came back and just at the very end, it was changing back to two years.
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But I was already heading to college and stuff.
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So I came home May of 1985.
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That's when I got back from the England-London mission.
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And I loved it.
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It was tremendous.
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I served in Shepherd's Bush.
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I served out in Chelmsford, Whittam area.
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Served in Luton and Watford.
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And finally, I served up in Cambridge.
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And I loved my time and my mission.
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I've been over to Utah a few times now.
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I was over actually in December and I got to meet up with three of my companions actually.
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Well, I stayed with one who married a Scottish girl.
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I stayed with him.
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That wasn't getting handy.
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Kelly Gray.
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And then I visited with Marty Andrews and Clark Christensen.
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So it was just great.
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I hadn't seen Clark in 40 years.
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And you guys know what it's like when you meet up with your old companions you haven't seen in years and years and years.
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So very fortunate to have a good relationship with them.
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Came back off my mission, dated for a few years, graduated from university.
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No one was willing to have me.
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I was, I don't know, just that was it.
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I must have been a prickly character.
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And then a certain Dutch girl came to Scotland and served in Scotland and she ended up towards the end of her mission here in Dunfermline by that time I was serving as a ward mission leader but I yeah I was actually engaged to another girl at the time but anyway she worked her magic on me and she went home Nothing happened on the mission.
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She went home and then we got in touch.
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And frankly, a year later, you know, the rest is history.
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I was married a year later.
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We lived in the Netherlands for a little while and then came back to Dunfermline so I could finish all my studies in Edinburgh, actually.
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I've settled in Dunfermline, got a job.
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I was called as bishop and we had our first marriage.
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child, Kyle.
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He's studying for his PhD down in Liverpool now.
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It's in his third year.
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He's getting married this September.
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His fiancée has just joined and she's a lovely girl.
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And then I've got a daughter, Megan.
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She's married in Glasgow and we've just had a little grandson.
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And then our youngest daughter, Christy, is studying in Edinburgh.
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So we've three kids.
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I served as bishop for six years and then released and I was called the stake president and I served as stake president in the Dundee stake and for nine and a half years or so.
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Then I served as the UK Communication Director of Public Affairs.
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I got involved with lots of stuff, radio, TV, government relations, interfaith.
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Wow, I just had a great time.
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And then Monique and I have just recently come back from the Belgian Netherlands mission, where she and I were the mission leaders.
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And we had 332 missionaries.
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We went out at the end of COVID times.
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None of this kind of fancy big visits to America for us.
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No, no, just straight into the field.
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And then we've had a fantastic three years.
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Coming home has been a bit tough picking up my business again.
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They give you a little bit of warning.
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They say after three years of being really busy, which you are, You're on the go 365, 24-7.
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You come back and you're like, whoa, the fourth year is the hardest year.
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And quite frankly, Ian and Jim, this fourth year's been pretty tough to come back and kick the business off again and trying to get it going.
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So that's in a nutshell about me.
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I've got lots of stories I can tell you and I'm interested in any questions you've got and I'm happy to share some specific stories if you like.
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But yeah, there you go.
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I feel very fortunate to have had such an opportunity to be blessed and to serve in so many different responsibilities.
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Well, I'm very curious.
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So about your mission presidency experience.
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Yeah.
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Particularly in Belgium, because, well, first of all, what language did you speak?
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Did you have to learn a language?
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And
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I speak Netherlands.
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I speak Dutch.
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My wife's Dutch.
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And so we were responsible for everything above Brussels, north.
00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:35.242
So if you can think of a horizontal line, just kind of the middle of Brussels, which is kind of Dutch and French speaking.
00:17:36.545 --> 00:17:39.450
We were speaking Flemish, which is a variation of Dutch.
00:17:40.112 --> 00:17:42.977
And then in the Netherlands, it's Dutch, of course.
00:17:43.597 --> 00:17:45.381
And I'm pretty fluent in Dutch now, yeah.
00:17:46.623 --> 00:17:50.349
So were your missionaries all trained in Dutch?
00:17:50.753 --> 00:17:51.935
to come to your missions?
00:17:52.896 --> 00:17:59.286
They had a few weeks in the MTC and they came in with very basic Dutch.
00:17:59.306 --> 00:18:03.971
But over the course of their time there, most of them became fairly proficient.
00:18:04.092 --> 00:18:04.893
Some excelled.
00:18:05.433 --> 00:18:08.337
There were some who were absolutely hopeless.
00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:21.578
But, you know, the Dutch, unlike some other missions where they don't speak English very well, there's not too many Dutch that don't speak Really good English.
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:22.039
So
00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:22.480
there you go.
00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:25.784
I would think that that would probably be the case.
00:18:26.585 --> 00:18:30.871
I'm very interested, though, in terms of the kind of reception that you got.
00:18:30.911 --> 00:18:43.906
Because all the reports that I hear are that all of Europe is really sort of struggling in terms of church growth, in terms of church retention.
00:18:43.926 --> 00:18:46.349
And so...
00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:51.685
I'd be very interested to hear your firsthand report from the front lines.
00:18:53.211 --> 00:18:55.941
Is that a very serious challenge?
00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:58.509
Did you see any success as a mission?
00:18:59.809 --> 00:19:03.497
So, Jim, I would stand you corrected, my friend.
00:19:03.517 --> 00:19:10.451
I think you've been being fed some pretty much nonsensical rubbish over a long period of time.
00:19:10.711 --> 00:19:14.398
The church is actually starting to really flourish and grow in Europe again.
00:19:14.459 --> 00:19:20.951
In fact, I would say, quite honestly, we are living in a golden age of growth in Europe once more.
00:19:21.834 --> 00:19:22.013
Really?
00:19:22.402 --> 00:19:23.684
Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:19:23.724 --> 00:19:25.309
Let me tell you why.
00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:30.623
So during COVID times, we went out right at the end of COVID.
00:19:30.643 --> 00:19:32.488
So we arrived in the mission in...
00:19:33.314 --> 00:19:35.178
June of 2021.
00:19:35.337 --> 00:19:38.705
And unquestionably, those were difficult times.
00:19:38.846 --> 00:19:41.551
You know, everybody kind of became reclusive.
00:19:41.692 --> 00:19:43.115
There was lots of challenges.
00:19:43.797 --> 00:19:45.361
Services were cancelled.
00:19:45.441 --> 00:19:46.542
Everything was on Zoom.
00:19:47.484 --> 00:20:01.060
And then over these, certainly in the last three years that we have seen quite exceptional growth in areas that were formerly very difficult to preach the gospel in.
00:20:01.942 --> 00:20:03.002
So all across Europe.
00:20:03.503 --> 00:20:06.307
And I think it's probably a number of factors.
00:20:06.688 --> 00:20:12.737
One number factor is the number of immigrants coming into Europe now.
00:20:12.856 --> 00:20:13.237
It's huge.
00:20:13.778 --> 00:20:19.326
I mean, Europe is a place where we have seen massive amounts of movement of people.
00:20:19.746 --> 00:20:32.163
all across the nations of Europe, resulting in a lot of curiosity about faith, a lot of people looking to actually recover faith.
00:20:33.044 --> 00:20:46.722
And fascinating, the thing that I always found fascinating, Jim, was the number of Muslim people who are having dreams, about Jesus Christ and coming to Christ.
00:20:47.223 --> 00:20:51.050
They're not just our Christian faith, but they'll want to join many a Christian faith.
00:20:51.471 --> 00:20:55.859
And so there's a number of people moving from the Muslim world into the Christian world.
00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:59.385
That's causing a lot of problems for them should they return home.
00:20:59.707 --> 00:21:08.538
The church has got pretty strict guidelines and policies on that because if you join a Christian faith and you go home, you're likely to be killed, frankly.
00:21:09.618 --> 00:21:11.801
It's quite serious, quite a serious thing.
00:21:12.343 --> 00:21:18.251
So we saw, in our time, we saw growth after growth after growth, year on year.
00:21:18.751 --> 00:21:20.535
And since we've come home, it's continued.
00:21:20.575 --> 00:21:25.382
In fact, we're running at double the growth we had the year we left.
00:21:26.063 --> 00:21:27.846
So in the Belgian Netherlands mission.
00:21:28.586 --> 00:21:29.468
Yes, it's hard.
00:21:29.909 --> 00:21:30.750
Yes, it's tough.
00:21:31.170 --> 00:21:39.163
No, we are not South America or Africa in terms of where that is just, you know, crazy growth all the time.
00:21:39.743 --> 00:21:44.171
But yeah, we are returning to a position of strength across Europe.
00:21:44.932 --> 00:21:46.654
And that's the way I see it.
00:21:47.115 --> 00:21:55.450
And I think the second reason would be, quite frankly, the church has now figured out how to utilize social media.
00:21:56.034 --> 00:21:56.914
Period.
00:21:57.715 --> 00:22:02.823
And the social media, the way it's utilized across...
00:22:03.163 --> 00:22:05.246
So Ian, you were talking about going knocking doors.
00:22:06.587 --> 00:22:13.217
So when the missionaries came into the Belgium Netherlands mission at their orientation meeting, I would say something like this.
00:22:13.237 --> 00:22:19.305
I would become the best social media individual in this mission.
00:22:19.885 --> 00:22:26.770
If you choose to waste your time and go knocking on doors, you will do just that.
00:22:27.332 --> 00:22:29.154
You will waste your time.
00:22:29.675 --> 00:22:32.599
And it's very unlikely that you'll ever find anybody.
00:22:33.320 --> 00:22:41.574
So you'd be far better becoming a social media expert, finding people online and finding people on the street next to working with your members.
00:22:41.634 --> 00:22:48.324
Because the members, 50% of our new converts in Belgium and Netherlands came through member work.
00:22:48.944 --> 00:22:52.230
45% came through social media.
00:22:52.930 --> 00:22:56.755
And the remaining 5% was all the other ways combined.
00:22:58.336 --> 00:23:07.388
So social media and the migration of people has been a big impact across Europe and the way the church is growing.
00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:20.946
That's actually very exciting to hear because my sons, I have twin boys, and they served missions in Argentina right before COVID or right during COVID.
00:23:21.027 --> 00:23:22.630
So they were out for seven months.
00:23:23.233 --> 00:23:25.537
The church recalled all their missionaries.
00:23:25.717 --> 00:23:33.527
And so they came home after seven months, and then they were reassigned to missions in the United States.
00:23:34.428 --> 00:23:40.935
But they reported sort of the same thing in terms of what was effective.
00:23:41.777 --> 00:23:50.898
And from their perspective, the church was just really sort of starting to figure out how to use social media.
00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:59.612
And it sounds like that that process has accelerated and that that's working a whole lot better, particularly under your leadership while you were there.
00:24:00.615 --> 00:24:01.117
Yeah.
00:24:01.377 --> 00:24:05.781
I'm a bit of a, as Ian probably knows, I'm a bit of a social media fan myself.
00:24:06.561 --> 00:24:08.904
I'm a bit of a regular blogger and poster.
00:24:09.565 --> 00:24:15.430
And so I actively encouraged all of our missionaries to blog and to share their thoughts and feelings.
00:24:16.770 --> 00:24:28.381
But now, not only that, but the missionary department has really, they have a really strong presence with, specifically on Facebook.
00:24:28.882 --> 00:25:24.198
So Facebook has been a, and Instagram to some degree not TikTok or anything like that or Snapchat or you know X as it is now but certainly Facebook there's a huge way to find people and people are very receptive you can have really good conversations online and yeah I think there's a sea change in the way that we do things I was on BBC Radio 4 recently for the church and they were asking me about our experience in evangelism and there was an Anglican minister and a muslim lady and they were talking to me about you know what's the most effective way to find people and i was saying well you know your friends but then it was really social media, and it was an eye-opener for the other two.
00:25:24.218 --> 00:25:26.060
They really hadn't cottoned on to it.
00:25:26.101 --> 00:25:38.861
I think the church is really now, in a big way, leading the way in using social media to actually express themselves, and they're not frightened about putting everything out there.
00:25:39.041 --> 00:25:42.567
I mean, everything's out there now in terms of online.
00:25:42.606 --> 00:25:44.109
So it's made a big difference.
00:25:45.813 --> 00:25:45.893
Yeah.
00:25:45.913 --> 00:25:46.113
The...
00:25:46.753 --> 00:26:10.153
from the time that we also had our missions you came back in 85 Jim you and I came back in 89 I think it was and we spent as you know Daryl in London in Scotland we spent every waking hour knocking on doors we got a few referrals when we got referrals it was you know manna from heaven that We didn't always get referrals from members.
00:26:10.472 --> 00:26:11.315
That was always a challenge.
00:26:11.375 --> 00:26:13.397
We had that Year My Friends program.
00:26:13.438 --> 00:26:14.179
Oh, yeah.
00:26:14.740 --> 00:26:16.061
Elder Bower did, if you remember that.
00:26:16.481 --> 00:26:22.872
But we spent most of the day, 10 hours a day knocking on doors, and we didn't get very far.
00:26:22.912 --> 00:26:30.342
And so the church has come a long way, very sophisticated in regards to social media.
00:26:30.962 --> 00:26:35.309
You said that it's found its way, become very efficient at that.
00:26:35.905 --> 00:26:39.570
Very different experience from Jim when you and I, well, we're all three were serving missions.
00:26:40.231 --> 00:26:44.837
In terms of the physical operations, the mechanics, what does that look like?
00:26:44.999 --> 00:26:53.750
Is it missionaries sat in front of a computer, literally, going on a Facebook, for example, and finding people that they don't know?
00:26:53.790 --> 00:26:56.795
What's that process look like?
00:26:57.476 --> 00:26:59.358
I mean, you've got the referral program with the members.
00:26:59.618 --> 00:27:01.361
So that, you know, you mentioned the percentage of...
00:27:01.986 --> 00:27:05.412
Success came from them, which it sounds amazing.
00:27:05.813 --> 00:27:16.330
By the way, the comment you made earlier about Europe, the resurgence of growth in Europe, for reasons that have explained, I never really fully understood that, Jim, until now that Daryl's talking about that.
00:27:16.392 --> 00:27:20.057
Because there's big parts of Europe, as far as I understand, that are quite secular.
00:27:20.479 --> 00:27:26.328
But with those people coming in, it's kind of a renewal from what Daryl's saying, which is great.
00:27:26.670 --> 00:27:26.750
Yeah.
00:27:27.074 --> 00:27:33.747
But from the mystery mechanics, getting up in the morning, could you walk us through the day of a mystery?
00:27:33.767 --> 00:27:34.548
I mean, you get up at 6.30.
00:27:34.868 --> 00:27:41.461
You have your prayers and your companion inventory, as we call it in Scotland, personal study.
00:27:42.202 --> 00:27:43.806
There's breakfast.
00:27:43.846 --> 00:27:45.308
There's half an hour planning the day.
00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:47.272
Leave the flat at 9.30.
00:27:48.258 --> 00:27:50.002
Or do they stay in the flat?
00:27:50.063 --> 00:27:52.409
Or do they go to an office and sit in front of a laptop?
00:27:52.449 --> 00:27:54.575
A laptop, right, would you now go?
00:27:54.996 --> 00:27:58.345
I'm completely different to what you and I experienced, Jim, and you, Daryl.
00:27:59.047 --> 00:28:01.373
And so it goes through all these names or whatever on Facebook.
00:28:01.733 --> 00:28:03.338
Could you walk us through that process?
00:28:03.378 --> 00:28:04.300
What's that look like?
00:28:05.442 --> 00:28:05.842
sure
00:28:06.182 --> 00:29:02.981
so it's yeah very similar to our day in the field so up at 6 30 structured day 6 30 back in the apartment at night by 9 9 30 okay um but in between it has changed significantly um so preach my gospel uh the you know the new edition second edition you'll find all the information in there but effectively morning routines is different they might they're probably now most missions won't get them out their mission till around noon uh lunchtime so a lot of study companion study personal study in the morning they'll do language study in our mission of course because that was a big part um they would do preparatory stuff in the morning so really mornings are are really a lot of time spent just getting organized and planning everything In their apartment then?
00:29:03.001 --> 00:29:03.989
In their apartment, yeah.
00:29:04.693 --> 00:30:05.643
So that would generally take, unless you've got a, district council or uh used to call them district meetings we call it they were called district councils now or you've got zone conference or something like that or the pd the preparation day so but it's all driven now by their their phones okay so very few of them will have laptops um for a social media they'll have they'll have in each mission you'll have social media missionaries and i'll explain that if you like but on the phones they all have something called a PMG app okay so the PMG app is preach my gospel app and that is really the that controls everything so so for instance typically I was just back over actually in the mission I was with a professionally with a client in Brussels and I met up with a few of the missionaries in Antwerp and And I was asking them, how many referrals are they getting now?
00:30:06.424 --> 00:30:13.721
And so when I left, they were getting around about six to 800 a month or so.
00:30:14.122 --> 00:30:16.307
Now they're getting well over a thousand referrals.
00:30:16.446 --> 00:30:20.395
So there's lots of things going on all the time in terms of that.
00:30:20.957 --> 00:30:40.702
But So if there's a Facebook ad, so there'll be a Facebook ad, someone somewhere in Belgium or the Netherlands will click on that ad and literally as soon as they've clicked on that ad, within less than 30 seconds, that referral will pop up on their phone in PMG.
00:30:41.663 --> 00:30:51.471
And then they can respond to that individual and there's usually at any one time at least three campaigns running on Facebook.
00:30:51.471 --> 00:30:52.933
social media or Instagram.
00:30:53.614 --> 00:30:55.195
So the missionaries will respond.
00:30:55.696 --> 00:30:57.618
They tend to respond within two minutes.
00:30:57.719 --> 00:31:03.064
If you get a response within two minutes, you're going to have a much more chance of success in talking with them.
00:31:03.525 --> 00:31:09.651
And so then they'll then go and physically see that person or they will have a call with that individual online.
00:31:10.291 --> 00:31:11.933
So that is a big part of what they do.
00:31:12.173 --> 00:31:14.436
Yes, they still go street contacting a lot.
00:31:14.777 --> 00:31:17.279
Yes, they'll go to members' houses for dinner appointments.
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:20.883
But another part of social media is that they'll actively...
00:31:21.423 --> 00:31:25.446
probably contact people in a specific area.
00:31:25.910 --> 00:31:28.061
So if they were serving in...
00:31:28.162 --> 00:31:28.863
Utrecht.
00:31:29.522 --> 00:31:35.008
And if they were in Utrecht, they would join little Facebook groups in Utrecht or they would look for people.
00:31:35.327 --> 00:31:44.036
They're all pretty good on social media so they can look online, find people and then basically just try and befriend them or share a message with them.
00:31:44.756 --> 00:31:48.799
And that accounts for a fair number of new convert baptisms as well.
00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:50.961
So there's that constantly going on.
00:31:51.362 --> 00:31:53.384
And I think, yeah, that's how it works.
00:31:53.544 --> 00:31:54.785
It's pretty slick now.
00:31:55.306 --> 00:32:26.326
Then they'll have their usual other activities through the day and they'll probably do a bit of street contact and they may do some street meetings they'll do some other kind of work but social media will generally take up a big part now that said not all of the missionaries like social media and are quite hesitant to use it and frankly it's created a few challenges as well in terms of the behaviors online and you've got to be pretty strict with that but yeah the results frankly guys speaks for themselves
00:32:28.546 --> 00:32:37.719
So what kind, well, maybe this is too loaded a question, but as a mission president, what kind of behaviors online did you have to worry about?
00:32:38.779 --> 00:32:40.122
How did missionaries get into trouble?
00:32:40.962 --> 00:32:50.056
Yeah, so you can read about that in the standards for missionaries, the discipleship of Christ.
00:32:50.115 --> 00:32:58.722
But the kind of things that we would encourage them to do was always to have, you know, working on their phones side by side so that they can see each other's screens.
00:33:00.484 --> 00:33:08.015
One of the things that we teach some is they don't take their phones into the toilet or into the bathroom, so they leave them outside.
00:33:09.656 --> 00:33:20.069
There were some of them who struggled with their behaviours from pre-mission.
00:33:20.705 --> 00:33:22.930
and bringing those behaviours into the mission.
00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:28.540
So they could be scrolling for hours on end or watching things that they shouldn't be.
00:33:28.580 --> 00:33:32.829
But the missionary devices are fairly well controlled.
00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:41.005
So there's a piece of software called Mass on your device, which really just limits them from what they can actually do.
00:33:41.045 --> 00:33:42.288
So there's a bit of...
00:33:43.617 --> 00:33:45.599
and a bit of a protection built in there.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.784
But some of the challenges were the kind of typical things that you would imagine.
00:33:49.943 --> 00:33:56.109
Some of them were able to bypass those things and then you'd find out or others would access things that they shouldn't have done.
00:33:56.891 --> 00:34:10.844
And yeah, although I was able to work with them in that challenge and just loving them and helping them and encouraging them to keep their minds focused, it made a difference.
00:34:12.641 --> 00:34:13.402
This is fascinating.
00:34:14.465 --> 00:34:22.318
In Scotland, you know, and the missionaries, I'm sure today, very strict standards, Jim, in Scotland, in missions.
00:34:22.378 --> 00:34:25.204
You know, we had President Dunne was hyper strict.
00:34:25.244 --> 00:34:26.224
We even had to work B-days.
00:34:27.186 --> 00:34:31.954
And very strict rules and regulations about missionary conduct.
00:34:31.974 --> 00:34:37.143
You know, the White Handbook, you had to really keep your mind in check, right?
00:34:38.126 --> 00:34:38.206
Yeah.
00:34:38.530 --> 00:34:43.295
And there is an interview before you go on a mission, the bishop interviews, you've got to be morally clean and worthy.
00:34:43.916 --> 00:34:45.617
And those standards haven't changed.
00:34:46.858 --> 00:34:49.902
Or have they slightly changed, Daryl?
00:34:50.043 --> 00:34:50.543
Is there...
00:34:50.583 --> 00:34:52.585
How do I phrase this?
00:34:52.606 --> 00:34:52.985
Is there...
00:34:53.005 --> 00:35:03.818
Again, on my mission, my experience, very strict in terms of maintaining the standards, living with exactness, being morally pure.
00:35:04.478 --> 00:35:06.882
And the message is that if you are not...
00:35:07.393 --> 00:35:11.501
with your thoughts and any other action behavior, you lose the spirit.
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:13.804
And the teaching there has not changed.
00:35:14.385 --> 00:35:25.083
Has, from your perspective, is a little bit more, what's the word, patience maybe or understanding dealing with young missionaries with those kind of challenges?
00:35:25.224 --> 00:35:31.333
Or is it still as strict from when all three of us were serving on our missions in the U.K.?
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
?
00:35:34.081 --> 00:35:35.523
So that's a great question, Ian.
00:35:35.583 --> 00:35:36.746
So let me answer that.
00:35:36.885 --> 00:35:41.954
This may be a little long-winded, but you think about this, what we've just been through.
00:35:42.014 --> 00:35:47.081
So we've been through three years of missionary leadership.
00:35:47.742 --> 00:36:00.621
So three years, translating that into mission speak, is 27 transfers of six weeks of 42 days of transfer, okay?
00:36:01.123 --> 00:36:32.692
So we've repeated that cycle 27 times and in that cycle we inherited a whole bunch of missionaries when we went in then we had our own missionaries for a period and then we passed them on that's how it works that's the operational mechanism of a mission so the missionaries generally will go through a few weeks in the mtc we have one of the mtcs in the world they will to get to the mtc you have to be mindful to be a missionary There's more expected of you.
00:36:33.152 --> 00:36:52.563
There's certain standards and obligations and procedures that they will have had to have reached in order to come on the mission, whether it's a proselyting mission now or a service mission, because many now are going on service missions rather than going on proselyting missions.
00:36:53.083 --> 00:36:57.349
Today, we have 450 missions globally.
00:36:57.730 --> 00:36:58.570
That's how many there are.
00:36:59.192 --> 00:37:07.760
And typically, you'll transition out a new mission leader or leaders 140, 150 every year.
00:37:08.041 --> 00:37:09.822
Every June, it's transitioning out.
00:37:10.603 --> 00:37:11.784
So there's a lot of change.
00:37:12.485 --> 00:37:15.369
And missionaries are constantly changing in field.
00:37:15.768 --> 00:37:18.192
Now, how do you know what's happening with your missionaries?
00:37:18.672 --> 00:37:19.934
It's really easy.
00:37:20.875 --> 00:37:24.318
In our mission, we had a complement of 130 missionaries.
00:37:24.759 --> 00:37:33.206
So every transfer, Monique and I, visited with a little coaching session with every single missionary.
00:37:33.266 --> 00:37:34.949
You guys probably had it with Prez at Dunn.
00:37:35.891 --> 00:37:41.739
Now, those interviews or those coaching interviews, I would see them and Monique would see them.
00:37:42.161 --> 00:37:43.422
And we spoke about different things.
00:37:43.963 --> 00:37:48.391
Those were critical in understanding where a missionary was.
00:37:49.032 --> 00:38:07.668
Now, they would come in and I could guarantee you that if you were getting an American missionary coming in in October, November, December, coming in a dark and dreary, cold, weary, wet Netherlands for a dark, long winter season, they'd be pretty depressed on general, okay?
00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:12.134
So you'd have to work with them and help them through that winter period.
00:38:12.954 --> 00:38:15.936
The expectations we have of them is very high.
00:38:16.637 --> 00:38:19.440
High love, high expectations.
00:38:20.061 --> 00:38:27.833
And Monique and I, from the outset, quite frankly, we couldn't have cared two hoots about how many people they taught and baptized.
00:38:28.554 --> 00:38:36.204
But what we did care about was then, one by one, we loved them.
00:38:37.065 --> 00:38:44.336
And all 332 of those missionaries are now our very, very, very best friends.
00:38:44.376 --> 00:38:45.157
They're like our kids.
00:38:45.579 --> 00:38:46.219
We just love them.
00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:50.465
And we came to know them personally, individually.
00:38:50.905 --> 00:38:55.956
And when you've got that love for them, you can really empower them.
00:38:56.416 --> 00:39:03.043
So we had our missionaries, we gave them a really long leash and some of them failed and some of them got themselves into trouble.
00:39:03.764 --> 00:39:11.793
But let me tell you that when they did fail, we never had any more rules other than what was expected in the discipleship.
00:39:11.853 --> 00:39:14.956
We'd call it the white hand because it's no longer white because it's all in line.
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:26.018
You know, when you love them, and help them to recognize that they're a child of God, then, you know, they just, they became empowered.
00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:31.007
And when they became empowered, they went out and taught with great love and passion.
00:39:31.507 --> 00:39:38.217
And we found that way a really powerful way to help every missionary raise their own standard.
00:39:38.338 --> 00:39:39.599
That was a long-winded answer.
00:39:39.619 --> 00:39:40.762
I hope it answers the question.
00:39:41.346 --> 00:39:41.987
Yeah,
00:39:42.768 --> 00:39:44.070
that's an amazing answer.
00:39:45.150 --> 00:39:48.916
You know, the great motivator in the gospel is love.
00:39:49.175 --> 00:39:50.878
You know, look at Christ, love.
00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:55.384
You know, I think Prison Banks taught us that, you know, different reasons.
00:39:55.423 --> 00:40:00.891
Remember those training sessions, Jim, where there was a session on, you know, what motivates a missionary?
00:40:00.931 --> 00:40:05.277
Well, obedience, guilt, except if you went through a different, I think it was a pyramid model he showed.
00:40:05.356 --> 00:40:09.181
Prison Banks was more of a business kind of leader model.
00:40:09.378 --> 00:40:11.380
President Dunne was more like a Sergeant Major.
00:40:11.420 --> 00:40:15.403
I thought I'd join the army with President Dunne, but anyway.
00:40:15.423 --> 00:40:20.670
So, and President Banks said the ultimate motivator is love, right?
00:40:20.869 --> 00:40:21.190
Is love.
00:40:21.449 --> 00:40:29.998
And so if people feel driven and motivated by love and you clearly, it's absolutely abundantly clear that you led your missionaries with love.
00:40:30.219 --> 00:40:41.456
And that is the ultimate goal and level that I think Jesus Christ, wants people to serve and to live their lives.
00:40:41.516 --> 00:40:44.599
And I think when you feel that, you feel you want to be your best.
00:40:44.981 --> 00:40:51.409
I remember I did three minor mistakes on my mission.
00:40:52.610 --> 00:40:55.916
I slept in twice by accident, felt very guilty.
00:40:56.657 --> 00:41:03.505
And another time I took the missionaries inadvertently outside of the zone.
00:41:04.001 --> 00:41:05.123
Inadvertently?
00:41:05.143 --> 00:41:06.905
Are you really going to tell me that
00:41:07.065 --> 00:41:08.126
that was inadvertent?
00:41:08.568 --> 00:41:09.668
Well, there was a big question.
00:41:09.728 --> 00:41:13.012
You were on that trip, and there was a question matter.
00:41:13.032 --> 00:41:16.177
It was not that trip, but I came into the zone right after that trip.
00:41:16.496 --> 00:41:16.818
That's right.
00:41:16.858 --> 00:41:19.681
Well, there was a question, and I got a different opinion from different missionaries.
00:41:19.721 --> 00:41:22.483
There was an older Casper that was saying, Elder Wilkes, you're good.
00:41:22.543 --> 00:41:24.867
You can go to, you know, this far.
00:41:25.447 --> 00:41:28.190
And so, you know, different views on that.
00:41:28.851 --> 00:41:32.856
Anyway, long story short, Daryl, I took the mission outside of the zone.
00:41:34.081 --> 00:41:35.943
you know, with good intention on the P-Day.
00:41:35.983 --> 00:41:42.952
And I spoke to President Banks and his words were, Elder Wilkes, I expected more.
00:41:43.152 --> 00:41:43.952
I'm disappointed.
00:41:44.072 --> 00:41:44.893
And that just crushed me.
00:41:45.974 --> 00:41:48.717
And so I just, I said, I'm so sorry.
00:41:48.737 --> 00:41:49.820
I felt so terrible.
00:41:50.139 --> 00:42:02.393
And just that, just because I had so much love and respect for him and he'd spent so much time with me in the missionaries, just like what you did, investing, you know, I didn't feel President Dunne was interested in me.
00:42:03.106 --> 00:42:05.108
But President Banks was interested in me.
00:42:05.128 --> 00:42:07.391
He took the time to get to know me personally.
00:42:07.411 --> 00:42:10.675
And he was really interested in me and caring.
00:42:10.894 --> 00:42:15.940
And I just felt motivated by love and driven by love.
00:42:16.300 --> 00:42:18.422
And clearly, you were a President Banks.
00:42:19.925 --> 00:42:23.289
Jim, you and I have absolutely ultimate respect for President Banks.
00:42:23.309 --> 00:42:24.851
And you know President Banks, Daryl, as well, right?
00:42:25.431 --> 00:42:27.614
So you were a President Banks missionary.
00:42:27.693 --> 00:42:30.697
And I think that's the best missions to be in.
00:42:31.297 --> 00:42:37.403
Instead of leading by, you know, we had all these tick boxes with President Dunne and tick this and tick this and tick that, et cetera.
00:42:38.045 --> 00:42:41.807
And, you know, pressure to confess if, you know, under duress at times.
00:42:42.409 --> 00:42:44.831
Very different approach, leadership style with President Banks.
00:42:45.492 --> 00:42:52.498
And you felt that you wanted to be your best and lead your best because you felt loved.
00:42:52.838 --> 00:42:55.402
And clearly you had that experience on your mission.
00:42:55.742 --> 00:42:59.186
Jim, did you, when you were serving, did you feel...
00:42:59.969 --> 00:43:01.791
motivated by love as well.
00:43:02.072 --> 00:43:04.215
That came through President Banks too, did it?
00:43:05.097 --> 00:43:07.940
Well, it did come through President Banks.
00:43:08.822 --> 00:43:13.869
I think my personal motivations were really kind of mixed.
00:43:14.710 --> 00:43:26.385
I think that in a lot of cases, there's a lot more guilt, there's a lot more fear, there's a lot more shame than I think was healthy or is healthy.
00:43:27.074 --> 00:43:51.525
And Daryl, as I listen to you talk, I hope every single one of your missionaries recognized just how wonderful and unique, maybe not unique, I mean, I don't want to denigrate anybody, other mission presidents out there, but just how blessed they were to have a mission president.
00:43:52.130 --> 00:43:57.596
that was able to say something like, I didn't care two hoots about how many people they baptized.
00:43:58.097 --> 00:43:58.958
I cared about them.
00:43:58.978 --> 00:44:02.842
I mean, that is so absolutely the right priority.
00:44:03.041 --> 00:44:12.132
It's just, you know, so I'm in the Tabernacle Choir and we just got back a couple of weeks ago from a tour in Peru.
00:44:13.514 --> 00:44:16.458
And we were in Lima, Peru, and it was just absolutely wonderful.
00:44:17.298 --> 00:44:26.827
And I got an opportunity to visit I was in an elevator with two sister missionaries in the hotel we were staying in.
00:44:27.429 --> 00:44:29.813
And I said, oh, your sister missionary's in Peru.
00:44:29.833 --> 00:44:31.637
Do you know Neil Manley?
00:44:31.956 --> 00:44:36.385
Because Neil Manley is a mission president in Lima, Peru.
00:44:36.445 --> 00:44:40.030
He's my wife's first cousin, and we know him and his wife quite well.
00:44:40.813 --> 00:44:43.597
And I went, oh, good, here are some of Neil's missionaries.
00:44:44.219 --> 00:44:45.922
And they said, I have no idea who that is.
00:44:46.626 --> 00:44:47.246
And I went, what?
00:44:47.467 --> 00:44:52.572
And they said, there are seven missions in Lima, just in the one city.
00:44:52.813 --> 00:44:56.297
I mean, Lima and Peru, it's just exploding.
00:44:56.338 --> 00:44:58.400
And we saw that.
00:44:58.860 --> 00:45:02.025
We did a concert in the big soccer stadium in the center of the city.
00:45:02.625 --> 00:45:03.646
And it was just jammed.
00:45:03.686 --> 00:45:04.847
It was like a rock concert.
00:45:04.967 --> 00:45:05.869
It was amazing.
00:45:07.010 --> 00:45:16.222
But afterwards, somehow, out of the tens of thousands of people that were there, I was able to find Neil Manley as well.
00:45:16.514 --> 00:45:20.559
and had a wonderful conversation with him about his experience.
00:45:21.579 --> 00:45:24.963
And I asked him some kind of similar questions.
00:45:25.985 --> 00:45:36.317
And his reaction was exactly the same as what you're saying, is that the most important thing is to love the missionaries and to show and demonstrate that love for missionaries.
00:45:37.217 --> 00:45:40.382
And, you know, I look at my sons.
00:45:41.346 --> 00:45:43.849
who had very different mission experiences.
00:45:43.869 --> 00:45:49.313
One of them had a really wonderful experience and the other one, frankly, did not.
00:45:49.333 --> 00:45:59.784
And the key difference was the mission president and the attitude of the mission president, the attitude of the mission president toward the missionaries.
00:46:00.545 --> 00:46:08.213
So I just, as I hear you talking about this, I just think, you know, this is exactly...
00:46:09.057 --> 00:46:29.099
This gives me faith and hope in the future of the church to know that people like you have your priorities in line and are, I think, responding to the example of Christ in terms of how you deal with your missionaries and how you're preaching the gospel.
00:46:29.659 --> 00:46:35.246
I am very curious now, when you talk about the fourth year, you've now come home, you're now restarting your business.
00:46:36.034 --> 00:46:38.117
Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:46:38.137 --> 00:46:46.932
I mean, cause I talked to like bishops who get released and they're so involved and they're doing great.
00:46:46.992 --> 00:46:52.523
And then they're released and they come to church and they just sit there and they just, it's like, what do I do with myself?
00:46:52.923 --> 00:46:56.590
I I'm going three 65, 24 seven, like you're saying.
00:46:56.630 --> 00:46:58.853
And now all of a sudden here I am.
00:46:58.893 --> 00:47:05.949
And I I'm not like, And you've been a bishop, you've been a stake president, and now you've been a mission president.
00:47:07.050 --> 00:47:08.913
That transition's got to be awfully...
00:47:09.112 --> 00:47:11.175
What do they have you doing in the church right now?
00:47:11.215 --> 00:47:11.596
Anything?
00:47:12.175 --> 00:47:12.996
You in the nursery?
00:47:13.036 --> 00:47:21.284
I've just been called as Elder's Quorum President, but I've also got an advisor role on several UK committees.
00:47:21.746 --> 00:47:23.166
Let me answer a couple of questions.
00:47:23.186 --> 00:47:24.088
You've made a few points.
00:47:24.128 --> 00:47:28.172
Let me rewind a little bit, and then I'll answer your question, Jim.
00:47:28.992 --> 00:47:29.753
So, Ian...
00:47:30.626 --> 00:48:04.056
you knew my dad very well I'm my father's son and tried very hard really hard to to live up to that example and you know what I mean and So that's been something that's been with me all my life.
00:48:05.878 --> 00:48:16.014
And when I see him, and I will, I'll say, Dad, I did Orchid.
00:48:17.396 --> 00:48:19.940
And you know what I mean by that, Ian.
00:48:20.842 --> 00:48:21.083
I do.
00:48:22.043 --> 00:48:26.311
So that was a big thing for me, Jim, to...
00:48:28.673 --> 00:48:33.922
And importantly, I want to just correct both of you a little bit.
00:48:34.724 --> 00:48:40.733
As mission leaders, this wasn't just about me as the mission president.
00:48:40.793 --> 00:48:51.672
This was about my wife and I, who equally yoked, led that mission for three years with everything that we had and gave it our all.
00:48:51.992 --> 00:49:11.739
And she had as valuable a part and a role to play um together we we led that mission and we had we had different responsibilities there but it was it was us not me and not her it was together we led And your cousin, Jim, they'll be the same down in Lima, Peru.
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:16.284
Now, the differences in Lima, Peru to Belgium, Netherlands are vast.
00:49:16.364 --> 00:49:36.762
It's a chasm because you've got a vastly different group and culture there as opposed to a secular nation in the Netherlands and Belgium who, frankly, if it hadn't been for these immigrants, would have probably been in decline because there's not a great deal of locals joining church.
00:49:37.081 --> 00:49:38.983
It's much more immigrants joining church.
00:49:39.023 --> 00:50:04.262
But since returning home, I think to your last question, yeah, I mean, I don't think, and it's hard, I mean, you two will reflect on your missionary days passionately, with great love, with great emotion, with great experiences, highlighting your life.
00:50:05.465 --> 00:50:25.538
Now, Having just been in serve for those three years, I've had, there wasn't a day that would go by that there wouldn't be some kind of spiritual confirmation that we were on the Lord's errand.
00:50:25.577 --> 00:50:28.382
That happened daily.
00:50:29.889 --> 00:50:36.996
And then if those things were happening daily for us as mission leaders, they were happening frequently for the missionaries.
00:50:37.858 --> 00:50:40.719
If you look at Elder Cook's recent talk, Quentin L.
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.465
Cook, and he prioritized where we should focus our efforts on the missionaries.
00:50:46.085 --> 00:50:49.409
It's the shepherds well before baptisms.
00:50:49.969 --> 00:50:54.594
It's looking at these young people, these shepherds, because we were losing far too many of them.
00:50:54.614 --> 00:50:58.677
They were coming home, falling into activity and just leaving the church.
00:50:59.554 --> 00:51:08.951
But by focusing on them in love is frankly changing the culture of the way that these missionaries are serving in the mission.
00:51:09.411 --> 00:51:16.144
Now, I've come from a leadership, my home-owned company, leadership, development, training, coaching, facilitation.
00:51:16.164 --> 00:51:17.106
I've been doing that for years.
00:51:18.208 --> 00:51:25.768
Others And coming from mission leaders who are coming from big corporates where they're focused on, you know, really running a business.
00:51:26.429 --> 00:51:28.893
That's, I think, it brings a different culture.
00:51:30.036 --> 00:51:33.001
But together, we're trying to do it and build the kingdom.
00:51:33.623 --> 00:51:44.422
To your last question, coming home has been really hard because all of a sudden, it's difficult to slow down.
00:51:44.673 --> 00:51:47.057
It's difficult to change that pace.
00:51:47.097 --> 00:51:56.873
So I spoke to two or three return mission leaders and asked their counsel and advice and he says, you've got to keep yourself busy.
00:51:57.594 --> 00:52:00.900
So those first three or four months back, I've written a book.
00:52:01.521 --> 00:52:03.545
It's in its final edits now.
00:52:04.226 --> 00:52:05.847
That kept me busy.
00:52:05.867 --> 00:52:14.398
I was immediately, not immediately, I was about two months home and they gave me something to do back as a national advisor on UK communications.
00:52:14.458 --> 00:52:16.902
So I've been involved with government things.
00:52:17.041 --> 00:52:20.226
I'm part of the temple committee for the new temple coming in Scotland.
00:52:20.827 --> 00:52:24.271
And then a couple of weeks ago, a month ago, I was called as Elder's Quorum President.
00:52:24.871 --> 00:52:25.853
But it's hard.
00:52:26.753 --> 00:53:05.128
it's been difficult for me professionally to build my business again I mean it's been really tough I've been thankful for savings to be honest because we've lived over savings for a while now and yeah just and you've got this you know feeling of your heart is passionately back there in the Netherlands and with the people and you were living at a much higher purpose you were on the Lord's errand and then you're released and you're kind of like how am I going to match that and you never will We never will.
00:53:06.429 --> 00:53:09.273
We'll never have that opportunity again to do it.
00:53:10.235 --> 00:53:15.043
And so I coach all 332 of my missionaries.
00:53:15.643 --> 00:53:17.106
I give them free sessions.
00:53:17.226 --> 00:53:20.590
I constantly, today I've had two sessions already.
00:53:21.452 --> 00:53:40.601
And every day I'm speaking with them about the future to try and try and help them but to keep that feeling going and it's it's it's difficult because i need to place that that happened i need to move on in my life um and and i think yeah all of those things come in so it's just really tough really tough jim
00:53:42.724 --> 00:53:49.918
so so two questions what is your business that you're rebuilding and what is your book about So the
00:53:49.978 --> 00:53:51.539
business, I have my own.
00:53:52.681 --> 00:53:54.081
So primarily coaching.
00:53:54.143 --> 00:53:56.384
I do a lot of coaching one-on-one.
00:53:56.505 --> 00:54:04.411
So I work with senior leaders and I coach them to become better leaders and deal with all the issues that they're dealing with as a senior leader.
00:54:04.811 --> 00:54:09.556
Or I'll work with senior management teams and coach them in team coaching sessions.
00:54:09.695 --> 00:54:11.637
I build leadership programs.
00:54:11.697 --> 00:54:12.378
I design them.
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:16.802
I facilitate them, you know, pretty much UK, Europe.
00:54:17.182 --> 00:54:18.643
I've done it globally for a while.
00:54:18.864 --> 00:54:30.896
And I'm doing a bit recently, it's much more around neurodivergent stuff, mental health, autism, and I'm working with one or two other companies and in the coaching.
00:54:30.936 --> 00:54:36.543
So I'm a fellow with the Association for Coaching here in the UK and so I spend a lot of time doing that.
00:54:37.123 --> 00:54:44.110
My book, I've been a blogger for 12 years now and so I've written some over a thousand blogs.
00:54:44.931 --> 00:54:53.719
In the mission field, I wrote a lot and I've written a I've taken those blogs and made it into a daily devotional book.
00:54:53.840 --> 00:55:03.849
So it's a 365 daily devotional book, taking an everyday kind of experience in the mission and actually then sharing a spiritual message from it.
00:55:03.989 --> 00:55:06.610
So yeah, it's in final edits now.
00:55:06.650 --> 00:55:13.777
I've got a BYU intern here in Scotland helping me finish off the final edits and I hope to get it to Deseret by the end of this month.
00:55:14.237 --> 00:55:17.481
And I want to see it on the shelves at Christmas time.
00:55:19.010 --> 00:55:19.972
I
00:55:19.992 --> 00:55:25.545
used to have a contact at Deseret book.
00:55:25.626 --> 00:55:28.853
My cousin was the head editor, but she has now retired.
00:55:28.954 --> 00:55:31.420
So I can't help you there.
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:34.768
Cause I've got a book I want to get published too.
00:55:34.887 --> 00:55:36.932
And I'm just, I'm not quite sure how to do that.
00:55:37.538 --> 00:55:40.802
Oh, well, I tell you, it's a lot harder than you think, Jim, honestly.
00:55:41.342 --> 00:55:58.347
You know, you always want to try and make little improvements right as you get to the end, and I was out getting read by a few people in final edits, and then there'll probably be a few other things I need to change, you know, but hopefully by, I've nails there, so that's exciting.
00:55:59.027 --> 00:56:07.023
Yeah, I think, you know, Jim, I know quite a bit about your life, that would be a fascinating book, and I'll definitely would buy it.
00:56:07.063 --> 00:56:14.989
And of course, Daryl, you know, packing all of your experience into the end of that, it'll be, you know, I'm sure these books will do well.
00:56:17.112 --> 00:56:29.503
Just one other question I'm listening to, Daryl, and just going a little bit back to your mission leadership experience with you and your wife and, you know, as a partnership.
00:56:30.525 --> 00:56:34.829
We talked earlier about, you know, love and motivating mysteries, some of the challenges.
00:56:37.121 --> 00:56:46.092
When I was in my mission, and actually in Dunfermline, we came across individuals who were in very strong opposition to the church.
00:56:46.132 --> 00:56:52.360
I think even we had the godmakers that were showing up as the Dunfermline or Jambal at one time.
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:58.887
I remember speaking to President Dunn and your dad and like, you know, what the heck's going on, et cetera.
00:56:58.929 --> 00:56:59.568
There was a lot of...
00:56:59.588 --> 00:57:01.831
And of course, on the doorstep, we'd get questions.
00:57:01.871 --> 00:57:04.815
And I struggled with some of the questions.
00:57:05.496 --> 00:57:06.358
What was your...
00:57:07.329 --> 00:57:35.465
what was the experience like when you had a mystery who were was asked a tough question or maybe a doctrinal or historical question polygamy you know i used to get that a lot on the doorsteps you know polygamy was was the uh probably the most common one um you know uh there's a few of the ones but that was quite uh a common question what was your what was the experience with the mysteries what some of the questions were getting and then when they had maybe tough questions, maybe historical or doctrinal.
00:57:36.025 --> 00:57:43.193
How did you support the missionaries through perhaps some of those difficult questions that no doubt they would get from time to time?
00:57:45.056 --> 00:57:59.273
Well, I think, Ian, I don't know if we're just very fortunate or the missionaries' ability is they're coming more prepared.
00:58:00.775 --> 00:58:02.478
So I...
00:58:03.393 --> 00:58:11.403
If there were doctrinal issues, and there were, they come up every now and again, it wasn't a very frequent thing.
00:58:13.445 --> 00:58:16.769
So the missionaries, we had a very close relationship with all of them.
00:58:17.690 --> 00:58:26.240
So they would generally speak to me in their transfer coaching interview if there were any specific issues.
00:58:26.942 --> 00:58:42.730
If there was a difficult one that occurred, Then we would call through the mission, through the transfer, and they would speak to me one-on-one about it at a call at night.
00:58:44.351 --> 00:58:51.838
The kind of typical things that would come up might have been around transgender issues, may have came up once or twice.
00:58:52.900 --> 00:59:03.869
Intersex was an interesting one that came up once, but that turned out to be one of the most amazing spiritual experiences I've ever had in my life, to be honest.
00:59:05.601 --> 00:59:16.965
Other than that, Frank, Ian, you're going to think I can't believe you, but honestly, there were very, very few questions that were coming to me as a mission president.
00:59:18.068 --> 00:59:22.157
There were questions that they came across from people.
00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:25.764
I remember there was one situation where a guy was...
00:59:26.657 --> 00:59:34.786
was very interested in joining the church, but he was coming from the church of Satan, which was an interesting church to belong to, quite openly.
00:59:34.967 --> 00:59:41.134
And that created some doctrinal issues for the missionaries who were teaching this guy from the church of Satan.
00:59:41.835 --> 00:59:50.204
But Ian, you can see how I'm even answering this question to come up with some real answers for you.
00:59:50.563 --> 00:59:59.885
I can hardly think of too many examples where there were difficulties One, I think now the missionaries that are coming in are better prepared.
00:59:59.925 --> 01:00:01.467
They're more able.
01:00:02.228 --> 01:00:05.755
They're more doctrinally prepared, maybe through their seminary and institute.
01:00:06.396 --> 01:00:10.503
And so if they were coming to me, it would be a real bobby dazzler.
01:00:10.603 --> 01:00:12.567
And then we'd talk through it in council together.
01:00:12.606 --> 01:00:16.094
And that was never an issue.
01:00:16.514 --> 01:00:20.481
Now, saying that, in our time, we...
01:00:23.362 --> 01:00:28.210
we never had any missionary return home for a doctrinal issue.
01:00:28.871 --> 01:00:44.456
There were some issues that needed, there were maybe some mental health issues that occurred or things that had happened before the mission that came into the mission and they hadn't confessed that took them back home.
01:00:45.237 --> 01:00:56.300
But doctrinally wise, and I know that might sound, I know that in the church today, there are many that are struggling with doctrines and historical facts and things like that.
01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:03.547
But my experience in the mission was it wasn't much of a concern for our missionaries.
01:01:03.989 --> 01:01:09.273
And maybe that was down to the relationship we had with them because they could talk to me about anything.
01:01:11.456 --> 01:01:14.119
Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a cough.
01:01:14.139 --> 01:01:18.784
Oh, it's a very honest and very accurate, very reliable experience.
01:01:18.804 --> 01:01:21.166
And it comes back to what you're saying.
01:01:21.246 --> 01:01:24.494
If you love someone and you trust someone, you can open up and share your thoughts.
01:01:25.014 --> 01:01:30.385
You know, there's so much, you know, we have a, you know, and the church is a very long and at times complex history, right?
01:01:31.128 --> 01:01:32.409
And you're not going to know everything.
01:01:32.610 --> 01:01:34.655
You're not going to know every answer to every question.
01:01:34.675 --> 01:01:45.815
You know, we went through the whole experience, all three of us, you know, we had this knowledge and and your knowledge grows, and you might have some answers, and you might not have some answers, and you serve through faith.
01:01:46.695 --> 01:01:48.358
So, no, I appreciate that answer very much.
01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:57.873
We're coming to the end of our conversation here, and so I just want to, Jim, ask you, do you have any other thoughts or questions for Daryl?
01:01:58.315 --> 01:02:11.081
And then Daryl, I want to give you the final word and share anything else, a story, anecdote, an experience, a comment, anything, piece of advice, et cetera, so you can have the closing words.
01:02:11.762 --> 01:02:16.206
And then following that, we'll wrap up and close it.
01:02:16.706 --> 01:02:17.887
Jim, any thoughts,
01:02:17.987 --> 01:02:18.608
questions from you?
01:02:18.768 --> 01:02:19.869
Well, I have some thoughts.
01:02:19.929 --> 01:02:27.516
I don't know that I have any more questions other than to say how grateful I am to hear good news from Europe.
01:02:28.498 --> 01:02:35.666
I mean, right at the outset, my first question, you said you've been fed a load of rubbish, and I'm actually very happy to hear that because...
01:02:36.289 --> 01:02:37.871
You hear dire things.
01:02:37.972 --> 01:02:46.121
You hear, okay, well, the church is growing in Africa, but it's not, and it's growing in South America, and it's growing in the Philippines, and everywhere else it's collapsing.
01:02:47.182 --> 01:03:01.621
And, you know, I have heard that from a number of sources, and to hear somebody who has served a mission, and I would believe may be one of the most difficult proselyting areas in the world.
01:03:01.860 --> 01:03:02.081
I mean...
01:03:02.465 --> 01:03:05.610
the secular societies of Europe are very real.
01:03:05.771 --> 01:03:10.137
I mean, there aren't seven missions in Belgium the way there are in Lima, Peru.
01:03:10.177 --> 01:03:22.998
And to hear you from the front lines come back and saying, there's a new resurgence and the church has figured out how to use social media and all of these things.
01:03:23.018 --> 01:03:29.307
I mean, Ian and I have talked an awful lot about, you know, the church and the missionary program.
01:03:29.427 --> 01:03:42.141
And I've said for years that, The church was in the middle of a transition that it didn't recognize it was in, which was this sort of transition to using technology, to using social media.
01:03:42.181 --> 01:03:58.378
And when my sons were serving missions, the church really hadn't quite figured it out to the point where it sounds like they have, or at least the mission in Belgium has, because it had a great mission leader.
01:03:58.945 --> 01:04:02.711
But it sounds like this is something that the church is getting a handle on.
01:04:02.731 --> 01:04:10.802
And if the church is growing again in Europe, then that's tremendous news and that's wonderful.
01:04:10.983 --> 01:04:13.266
And so I just very much appreciate that.
01:04:13.407 --> 01:04:35.989
I very much appreciate getting a chance to visit with you and to get to know you a little bit and the feel of your spirit, because I really think there will be people of missionary age who are just, or people who've just come back from missions or even not missionary age, who will listen and go, geez, I wish my mission president was like that.
01:04:36.911 --> 01:04:45.644
I wish I'd had a mission president that had his priorities in line and that really was in touch with what a mission president ought to be.
01:04:45.824 --> 01:04:54.592
So I just very grateful to visit with you and very much appreciate everything you do and have done and will continue to do.
01:04:54.733 --> 01:04:59.597
And I'm going to be the first in line to buy your devotional book as soon as Deseret Book puts it on the shelves.
01:05:01.219 --> 01:05:01.760
Thanks, Jim.
01:05:03.802 --> 01:05:05.103
Well, thank you, guys.
01:05:05.182 --> 01:05:05.963
I appreciate it.
01:05:06.264 --> 01:05:10.047
Let me just, I think, a couple of things to finish off.
01:05:10.288 --> 01:05:18.916
One is that the church is definitely, you know, the church is no longer a Wasatch Front church.
01:05:19.215 --> 01:05:24.606
It's grown from that kind of Western United States to an international faith.
01:05:25.387 --> 01:05:39.306
And now it's really, where I see the church now is it's really kind of struggling to grow from the international stage to being a global organization and a global faith.
01:05:39.387 --> 01:05:53.431
And I think right now as we sit in the last of the last days and preparing for the Savior's second coming, we are seeing how the church is up in its game to starting to be on the global stage.
01:05:54.112 --> 01:05:56.753
And it's still struggling with getting those things right.
01:05:56.833 --> 01:06:07.083
And there'll be many more changes to come as the church becomes a player from the international stage to a global player.
01:06:07.184 --> 01:06:08.485
One little story I'll finish with.
01:06:08.525 --> 01:06:17.393
I've shared this story before on another podcast thing I did a little while ago, but it really typifies how I felt about the mission.
01:06:20.130 --> 01:06:22.893
oftentimes I'd be asked, how did you do transfers?
01:06:22.972 --> 01:06:23.914
How does that work?
01:06:25.034 --> 01:06:27.958
And so we went through that 27 times.
01:06:28.958 --> 01:06:34.784
And towards the 24th or 25th time, we'd meet with our assistants.
01:06:34.985 --> 01:06:35.824
My wife was there.
01:06:35.864 --> 01:06:40.949
And through the whole transfer, we'd be thinking about where people were going to go.
01:06:41.010 --> 01:06:48.097
And it was dependent on how many missionaries were coming in and how many were going home and who was moving into leadership, who was moving out of leadership.
01:06:48.737 --> 01:06:49.820
But there was one transfer.
01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:51.681
It was about the 24th or 25th one.
01:06:52.744 --> 01:06:55.407
We'd gone through this whole usual scenario.
01:06:55.467 --> 01:06:56.730
And it's all online now.
01:06:57.291 --> 01:06:58.251
It's all virtual.
01:06:58.652 --> 01:07:00.596
There's no more pictures on walls.
01:07:00.695 --> 01:07:02.117
It's all online.
01:07:02.418 --> 01:07:03.500
You can move them around.
01:07:03.579 --> 01:07:04.742
It's all changed.
01:07:06.543 --> 01:07:09.849
And we went through the usual cycle, got to the end of the cycle.
01:07:10.650 --> 01:07:14.175
And boy, oh, boy, we just could not finish it off.
01:07:16.034 --> 01:07:50.297
couldn't finish it it was like and we went on till late at 9 9.30 and we needed to finish it that night because we needed to announce the transfers the next morning and it would not settle on us and we tried every variation and couldn't get it to match and we were one sister we were one sister short basically and anyway my wife went to bed I was getting late the AP's went away and I thought what am I going to do So I thought, you know what I'm going to have to do?
01:07:50.358 --> 01:07:51.300
I couldn't get it to match.
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:57.909
I thought, I'm going to have to call some of these sisters who are going home and ask them to stay another transfer.
01:07:58.130 --> 01:07:59.831
And it was really weird.
01:07:59.911 --> 01:08:01.335
I thought, that's strange.
01:08:02.155 --> 01:08:03.318
How is this not working out?
01:08:04.478 --> 01:08:05.661
So I was just about 10, 15.
01:08:07.003 --> 01:08:10.307
So I get on the phone with this one sister, first of all.
01:08:11.208 --> 01:08:13.532
President, what are you doing phoning me at this time of night?
01:08:13.713 --> 01:08:17.351
I says, well, what are you doing when you go home?
01:08:20.055 --> 01:08:21.195
What are you doing right away?
01:08:21.235 --> 01:08:25.180
And she proceeded to share a number of things present.
01:08:26.322 --> 01:08:27.283
You want me to stay?
01:08:27.323 --> 01:08:28.484
You want me to stay?
01:08:30.185 --> 01:08:31.167
I says, well, maybe.
01:08:31.186 --> 01:08:33.529
I says, well, maybe I'll have to get you to stay.
01:08:34.230 --> 01:08:36.752
I'll give up all of that.
01:08:36.913 --> 01:08:37.694
I'm happy to stay.
01:08:38.655 --> 01:08:39.015
Okay.
01:08:40.096 --> 01:08:41.118
So I thought, right, okay.
01:08:41.137 --> 01:08:42.219
Then I found another one.
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:43.720
And...
01:08:44.770 --> 01:08:46.931
She says, well, I've got a cruise booked.
01:08:46.993 --> 01:08:49.194
I'm going away with my family on a cruise when I get home.
01:08:49.234 --> 01:08:50.856
As soon as I get home, we're going away on a cruise.
01:08:52.057 --> 01:08:54.001
President, are you wanting me to stay?
01:08:56.082 --> 01:08:56.963
I says, well, I might.
01:08:57.304 --> 01:08:58.265
Well, I'll give the cruise up.
01:08:58.845 --> 01:08:59.947
I'm not going on the cruise.
01:09:00.328 --> 01:09:01.890
I'm happy to stay.
01:09:02.930 --> 01:09:09.278
And then I just listened to these two sisters who were amazing.
01:09:11.329 --> 01:09:16.457
who would just give up everything to have another one transfer in the mission field.
01:09:16.497 --> 01:09:20.382
You know, I'd have to pull a few strings because they were duty-goers, both of them.
01:09:22.947 --> 01:09:26.091
But anyway, I says, look, I don't know what's going to happen.
01:09:26.192 --> 01:09:29.115
I'm going to sleep on it now, and I'll let you know first thing in the morning.
01:09:29.978 --> 01:09:30.878
So I go to my bed.
01:09:30.958 --> 01:09:32.822
I plead with my Heavenly Father.
01:09:32.841 --> 01:09:34.524
I say, look, I've done everything.
01:09:34.725 --> 01:09:35.466
I don't know what it is.
01:09:35.605 --> 01:09:36.367
I'm going to sleep.
01:09:37.349 --> 01:09:37.628
Help.
01:09:38.289 --> 01:09:38.871
Please help.
01:09:38.951 --> 01:09:39.692
What's thy will?
01:09:41.537 --> 01:10:01.944
And in the wee small hours, 2.57 to be precise, I turn to the clock, I wake up, and as clear as I'm talking to you two this afternoon, I get this strong impression about someone that was completely not even in my realms of thinking.
01:10:01.963 --> 01:10:12.239
It meant several changes, quite a complex change, and the entire thing that we'd set up And we had just never even contemplated that.
01:10:12.801 --> 01:10:15.304
And as I went through that change,
01:10:19.188 --> 01:10:23.372
and as I went through that next transfer,
01:10:25.795 --> 01:10:38.868
I know that that particular transfer, more than any other, was inspired by the Lord Jesus Christ himself, by what transpired that transfer.
01:10:39.569 --> 01:10:48.230
Now, Ian, you know that I'm just a wee laddie from Abbey View in Dunfermline.
01:10:50.172 --> 01:10:51.474
I've never forgotten that.
01:10:52.935 --> 01:11:02.587
And if he can use me and use either of you guys in figuring out his will, then he will.
01:11:03.688 --> 01:11:08.493
And I testify to you as we close this session that God lives...
01:11:08.993 --> 01:11:19.264
that Jesus is the Christ, that we are involved in a work that is far beyond the realms of our own mortal understanding.
01:11:19.963 --> 01:11:29.393
We are on, those missionaries are on his errand and literally they are placed in places that he needs them to be.
01:11:29.412 --> 01:11:34.398
Ian, you came to Dunfermline, maybe just for this.
01:11:34.438 --> 01:11:42.475
Years later, you came all that way back They come to my dad's funeral because you love him and you honour him.
01:11:42.494 --> 01:11:47.442
And I've had the privilege to honour his name all of my life.
01:11:48.503 --> 01:11:51.948
I've had the privilege to serve in fairly senior roles in the church.
01:11:52.850 --> 01:12:03.524
And time and time and time again, I've seen his will manifest beyond the puny little mind of this wee lad from Abbeyview in Dunfermline.
01:12:04.125 --> 01:12:04.506
Because...
01:12:05.122 --> 01:12:08.425
It happens and it happens when you're on his errand.
01:12:08.505 --> 01:12:12.069
And I testify to that fact in the name of Jesus Christ.
01:12:12.088 --> 01:12:12.368
Amen.
01:12:18.114 --> 01:12:25.561
Darrell, I want to thank you so much for taking time to meet with us and share your thoughts and feelings.
01:12:26.662 --> 01:12:29.605
I feel the spirit of your father.
01:12:29.626 --> 01:12:33.430
I loved him, still love him.
01:12:34.753 --> 01:12:38.699
and feel grateful that I'm talking to his son.
01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:40.442
You're an individual, of course.
01:12:41.382 --> 01:12:59.287
And to Jim's point, I think it's, I think the missionaries that served with you and your mission are immensely blessed by having someone like you who loves and cares and will go above and beyond and do whatever it takes during the mission, after the mission.
01:12:59.368 --> 01:13:05.596
And those missionaries that responded the way they did during that transfer did that because they love you and they love the Lord.
01:13:06.618 --> 01:13:11.826
So I want to thank you for your amazing experiences.
01:13:12.688 --> 01:13:16.372
I also feel confident I can speak on behalf of all the listeners.
01:13:16.393 --> 01:13:20.599
We have many who I know will listen to this and will feel just a wonderful spirit.
01:13:21.320 --> 01:13:32.676
So on behalf of all the listeners, to everyone who listens to the Inside Out podcast, we have a growing number of people there who get a lot from these podcasts.
01:13:33.250 --> 01:13:37.978
Dal, I want to thank you again sincerely for just being just wonderful.
01:13:38.018 --> 01:13:43.988
And also extend our gratitude to your lovely wife, who is an equal partner.
01:13:44.009 --> 01:13:45.631
And I'm grateful that you highlighted that.
01:13:45.692 --> 01:13:47.034
You're a partnership.
01:13:47.095 --> 01:13:47.815
You're a leadership.
01:13:48.757 --> 01:13:50.560
And so thank you, Thibault.
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:55.710
Love to you and your family and all of you for just being wonderful partners.
01:13:55.873 --> 01:13:56.956
extraordinary people.
01:13:57.636 --> 01:14:04.788
And so, Jim, I want to thank you as well for always making an extraordinary, valuable contribution to the conversations.
01:14:05.551 --> 01:14:08.456
So, Daryl, Jim, to you both, thank you so much.
01:14:08.655 --> 01:14:10.680
To all the listeners, thank you for taking time to listen.
01:14:11.782 --> 01:14:16.829
We will look forward to being with you next week on the latest episode of Inside Out.
01:14:17.511 --> 01:14:18.172
Daryl, thank you.
01:14:18.313 --> 01:14:18.854
Jim, thank you.
01:14:18.873 --> 01:14:19.054
Thank
01:14:20.055 --> 01:14:21.278
you.